Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Mortgage Mastery ft. Jeff Leinan | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 47

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

Since joining Plaza in 2008, Jeff has held various leadership positions, including Executive Vice President and President of Wholesale Production. Under his leadership, Plaza has significantly expanded its wholesale business, leveraging his expertise to drive growth and stability in a competitive market. In his tenure, Jeff has been instrumental in Plaza Home Mortgage’s success, contributing to the company’s reputation as a top lender by implementing advanced technology and a customer-first approach. His leadership has helped Plaza Home Mortgage navigate market challenges and maintain its position as a destination employer for seasoned sales professionals​.For More Check Out our Playlist: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgPwyhl8CkXiM0cBtuY8A_6JS60FueLz3&si=0_2dnoPkYV6jcSGw Check Us Out on all Platforms!Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coffeez-for-closers-with-joe-shalaby/id1726674707Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2KkQWRqHSHcCK3TVfsRKUK?si=hjTnUOjFS5eTDxBjgf4RwQ&preview=noneAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/Coffeez-Closers-Joe-Shalaby/dp/B0CRYLQRW6 Coffeez and Closers Socials & WebsiteWebsite: https://coffeezforclosers.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coffeezforclosers/TikTok: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbnU0T3RrLXdPbC1BR2NLc2lWcExqWklQaHlQUXxBQ3Jtc0tudi1GV2Zod3hRYzRhTkhONFBuMlptblNGSlJ1QzhpV0tzbHh5YThNR0R3Y2RnNnU5NV9ER3E5ZUhxMjdUUWp1UWo4MVl6Q2szeXo1cFh1OHNkYkxDR1F0MXZtMTZ6QnZoakdzSnJpVl9PcWZBOU9zZw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiktok.com%2F%40coffeezforclosers&v=uXvk6LY9lS8Facebook: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa2pLZ2pMaUxmSTh4dy1qazMtdlBjX2pVN1AxQXxBQ3Jtc0tua2RUTUNsRmJob0RKWlVqeDhNaUN4US1rdlRvUG9Fdm5SNk1jU1pQNzNLQnVmUmtGMGtMYUViZ2pLMXJkOVJUci1kMk9DN2poTThVV2NFd0tISWdDMzNwOEZ2c3pVb09lbEhjemJHblRsS1RKdHZqbw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpeople%2FCoffeez-for-Closers-with-Joe-Shalaby%2F61556355642488%2F&v=uXvk6LY9lS8 Joe Shalaby SocialsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/josephshalaby/TikTok: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa3p6VlRzR1BWMkJQM1ZIaUdVZHhYVTYyak43QXxBQ3Jtc0tuUXVBOE1oZUJYTmZIZnNENUgxQkhjamk4RXJHb09MWU9OczJhLWpnX0JwN2pENzRhaV9NajJROW5nek1tQ1VvVE40ZFJuUUI2cnI0ajNKLXE4d1VMUUpkTGFHR0tGY0o5NUhnWnZnaXJoZXdEM0piaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiktok.com%2F%40josephshalaby&v=uXvk6LY9lS8Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/josephshalaby E Mortgage Capital Socials & WebsiteInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/emortgagecapital/Website: https://www.emortgagecapital.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Emortgagecap #1 Mortgage Company on Social on 🌎#1 Non Delegated Lender in the Country🌟#1 Broker in CANMLS #1416824"Mortgages Are What We Do Not Who We Are"™https://finance.yahoo.com/news/learn-why-e-mortgage-capital-192000740.htmlAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Coffees for Closers where success is served daily. Today we have a special guest with over three decades of experience in the mortgage industry. He has been instrumental in steering Plaza Home Mortgages national sales operations and production, especially through challenging market cycles. Under his leadership, Plaza Home Mortgage has become a destination employer for seasoned sales professionals, known for stability and opportunity. Get ready for invaluable insights on mortgage banking and growth strategies from a industry leader. Please welcome co-president of Plaza Home Mortgage, Jeff Linen. Joe, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Jeff. Thanks for coming to the show. We appreciate you. We appreciate you for flying down here from Jacksonville, Florida. And, you know, this is going to be a great opportunity for both of the. us. Jeff, we like to start the show the way we start the show every single time, which is we ask, we like to ask our guests, what is your morning routine? What is my morning routine? Well, obviously, get up and usually it's really coffee. Coffee quickly, right? Get that going,

walk the dog, and then get going with the day, right, and see what it can do and figure out. I really try to prioritize at least two or three things that I want to get done every day. Because I think most of us in life we let life get in the way. So things happen. So if you don't have a plan, things will fill that time and you'll feel like, oh, I'm busy, but am I really doing the things I need to do? So I really try to set each day and say, hey, listen, these are the, you know, it could be one thing, could be two things, could be three things.

And I'm like, no matter what, I have to get, make progress on these things. This is forward progress for me. So those are really important for me. And then, you know, because things happen, right? You fill in the time with, you know, phone calls and complaints and whatever else. So for me, that's super critical. And then because, you know, one of my things is day turns into a week, turns into a month. And if you're not progressing the things you've got to get done, then you'll look back.

You'll say, where did the time go? So super important that I keep those on my, on my to-do list every day. A couple top priorities just bang them out. Yep. Nice. Now, you've been in the business for three. decades. Yes. Okay. So you started what? In your teens, huh? 12. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been around for a while. Yep. What got you started in the

mortgage industry? You know, I think like a lot of people in the mortgage industry, it's a very financially rewarding industry or can be. And I think, you know, we talk about this all the time. I don't think anybody goes to college or says, hey, I want to be in the mortgage industry. You know, they don't go seek it out. They all fall into it somehow. Yeah. So for me, it's an interesting story. I went to college. I was studying finance. I had a marketing degree as well. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I was living in Seattle. I was born and raised in Seattle. And I showed up this place and this guy who graduated a year for me, he was driving a brand new RX7. Well, back in the day, that was a great car. It was a really expensive sports car. So I walk

up to him. I'm like, wow, that's a really nice car. What are you doing? He goes, I'm a loan officer. I'm a loan officer. What's that? And he goes, he's working at a bank. He tells me all about it. next thing you know, I'm talking to people and, you know, 18 months later, 12 months later, I'm a loan officer. So I was driven financially into the industry. And then I started working on it. I'm like, you know, this is a great job. It's a great combination of sales marketing and finance. So you're out, you're speaking to people, you're selling, you're marketing your products. But at the same time, you also are solving some fairly complex financial problems sometimes too. So I think for me, the combination of the two and then the financial incentive, the ability to, you know, set your own paycheck, really at the end of the day was, you know, super, super exciting for me.

So you didn't pick the mortgage industry. You kind of just picked you. It picked me. Yeah. I knew what I wanted to do and it checked all the boxes. You know, having a background in finance and marketing that is like the perfect combination to enter the mortgage sector, especially more importantly, like those. two, that combination now more than ever is just, that's what you need to succeed in the mortgage industry. Yeah, it's, the problems are complex that we face every day in the industry, the

things we see, and they're actually getting more complex. But at the same token, you don't have any problems to solve if you have any business. So you have to try to find the blend of the two, agreed. Now, what year did you start at Plaza? So I've been in Plaza. I started in 2008, you know, a really great time in our industry. How big was Plaza at the time when you started? I don't remember exactly the size of our head count at the time. We were, I think, at the time, just outside of the top 10 from a wholesale perspective. We've been around for 24 years, which is really a testament to our company and leadership and our founders because that doesn't happen a lot in our industry. Yeah.

And what, so you started, how many years ago you said at Plaza? 2008. 2008. So about, well, 16, you know, I know. time ever to start. Yeah, it was an interesting time period. I actually started in October, which is, for those of us, remember, the financial crisis that was right after the money market started freezing up. And it was really the worst of the worst. October 2008 was the worst time. It was the absolute worst. So I started right after that,

and I began and then about two weeks later, they started the interest rate cuts. And then it was, sort of off to the races from there. Nice. Now, you chose Plaza Home Mortgage or do they recruit you or how did you get started with them? So interesting story. Most of my career has been spent with big banks. I was at, you know, Chief of Mortgage Chase. I was at Washington Mutual. And obviously, Washington Mutual closed during the financial crisis.

So I was looking at the industry and I'm like, you know, the banks are not going to want to be in this space for a lot of reasons. We knew that they weren't going to exit. So we knew I had to be, I had to work for an independent mortgage banker. So I wanted to work with somebody that had good technology. and the right opportunities. And so I, Kevin Parra, who's one of our founders, I've known them for a long, long time. So I'd reached out and asked him what opportunities exist and came aboard.

And it really worked out well. It's been a great, great opportunity, great run. Now you're currently the co-president of Plaza on Mortgage. What would you attribute that level of success? How did you achieve that level of success at Plaza Home Mortgage? I think it's really grinding, to be honest with you. I mean, it's a tough industry. You know, it's feast or famine, as you know, right?

There's times when it's just, you know, loans literally seem like they're falling out of trees, right? And then we have a different set of problems then. You know, how do we get loans through the system? How do we get into the table? People are upset, taking too long. And those are, you know, relatively good problems. Yeah. But those markets come few and far between.

And then we have other markets where it's, you know, I need to go find business, right? I need to stimulate and create opportunities. And that's been the case lately. 100% has been the case lately. And I think similar, we also saw a lot of people come into the business or do a lot of things in 2000, 2021 was busy. And so we've seen a lot of people exit, but we need to continue to probably see the industry right size a little more, which is what's one of the interesting things about our industry. I think the peaks and values are really extreme. so it causes people to come in and people to leave.

But I think it's really important that we figure out how we source business and grow. And I think that's really been one of the keys to success. Now, where do you think you've developed that sense of such strong work ethic? You know, I think it starts with your parents, right? It starts growing up and it starts, you know, every generation wants to do better than the last generation. My parents worked really hard. My wife is actually from Cuba. And really, I'll tell you a quick story about them.

It's super interesting. So my wife came over in 1962, and her father at the time, he owned a furniture company. And so he was making furniture by hand and wood. And he came over because, you know, he wanted to leave the regime. So he came over with $50 in his pocket, left his home, left everything, came over $50 in his pocket, two kids. and didn't have anything. First thing he did when he got to the country was he went and bought wood because he knew how to make things, and he built a hot dog cart.

He started selling hot dogs. He then bought a Mr. Softie truck and then bought another one, and he continued to go. Then he found his way into the construction business and started developing homes. And he's 89 now, but when he retired about five or six years ago, he was building 80 to 100 homes a year. Wow.

Yeah. So, I mean, this is really, He worked till he was 85. He worked till he was 85. And he still works. I mean, he's got a real estate portfolio. But he's not day to day. But, you know, this country has a lot of opportunity.

And I think if you work hard and you see it, you know, you can do a lot. You can do a lot. Yeah, absolutely. Something I notice as a common trait with the entrepreneurs that I have on the show is that, you know, they just outgrind everybody. And everyone has different inspiration. Like, I'm an immigrant, you know, so I have what I call like an immigrant mindset. our immigrant work ethic and my father who's still

he's 73 now still works every single day you know he has a physician like he's just like something in that mindset of immigrants you know your your husband I'm sorry your wife's father who's

you know worked basically still till this day 90 years old almost still grinding every day it's just you know that that sort of mindset is something that's very very hard to instill in our children how do you think

you're instilling that grit mindset now into your children. That is a super good question and a really hard one. So I have one son. He's 22 years old. He just graduated college and then started his first job on Monday, actually. He's working for a consulting company in Virginia. And, you know, I don't know if you can instill it. You can try, but I think some of it's innate.

And I think he's watched my wife's family. And he's watched me over the years. especially in the mortgage industry where we mentioned feast or famine. Yeah. So, you know, when times are good, it's great, but when times are bad, you know, you're always, you know, you're really, you're double grinding. Yeah. They're not going to the Ritz this time. They're going to eat hot ramen.

Exactly. Why do we go to the Ritz last year? And this year, you know, we're at the Motel 6 down the street here, right? So, yeah, it's, I think you do your best. I think you set goals for the kids. I actually rewarded my son for grades, and I rewarded him all on the way for a compliment. things, so I wanted to show them that there was efforts for, you know, for working hard. And I think that's about all you can do. Now, 2008, I want to talk about some of the challenges you faced at

Plaza in like 2008, 2009, 2010. And then are they correlated or do you think they're similar to the challenges we're facing this time? I think it's a little different. I think 2008, 9, and 10, you know, the mortgage broker industry as a general was kind of under fire. Obviously, compliance was a really big deal. Underwriting was really tough, as you probably remember. And it was a different environment. There wasn't, wholesalers had really sort of dramatically reduced, or they were on their way.

They were exiting, right? So there was less competition. Yeah. I think today's challenge is a little different. I think today's challenge, people need to realize that a couple things. One, the world's changed. You know, you can't walk into an office and find six or seven people anymore you have to go find the people yeah you know unless you come here and then there's a ton of you walk

into a yeah you hear you can't beat of humans but there's there's a lot of some people just aren't going right it's remote and you know they you got to meet them at Starbucks you got to find whatever uh I mean we had in our company we have our own set of unique opportunities with remote environment you know people are like hey you know what I want to I miss going to the barbecue I miss having this I miss having that but in the same token I'm never coming back to the office right or I don't want to come back to the office so that creates a different environment but I think overall the mortgage industry is is continuing evolve and change so as different as it gets it also stays the same and what I mean by that is people still need to solve problems and they still want connections and

relationships it's just how you go about establishing the relationships has changed right social media is a part of it where am I seeing you uh you know how when can we connect how can we connect the phone it's just life's changed. And I think for most people, they have to evolve and see that I still need to connect with people. I just, I'm going to do it a little differently now. So I think that that's really important. And then just, you know, the mortgage industry as a general, you know, you've got obviously a really big, strong purchase market, got people who have challenges in it. They don't have the down payment or they've got credit concerns or whatever. So that, you know, it's really about product, I think, and finding things that allow people to get into homes. I love it. Now, you've seen a lot of success. Obviously, you're the co-president of Plaza Home Mortgage,

one of the largest mortgage companies in the country. What do you foresee in the future for the mortgage industry? You know, it's interesting. I think not a lot of tremendous changes. I think probably a little bit more consolidation still. We're still coming off of the 2020 highs, I think. So we'll probably continue to see a little more of that. I think that technology will continue to play a big role, right we'll continue to source borrowers you know from from different ways than we have in the past and I think that that really is uh is kind of the keys it's you know it's kind of what I mentioned earlier is as different as it is it still stays the same it's just we're going to go about things differently yeah so I think it you know technology will continue to play a big role but borrowers still want to

connect with people they want that trust factor you know you know you know NAR you know National Association Realtors has great data and And one of the things that they showed recently was that aside from friends and family and other transactions, the majority, and I can't remember the exact number, but it was really high. It was like 92% when 6% were family relatives. They still want to use a realtor. Even though they could probably not, they could go online and find where they want, but they want that knowledge and they want that feeling of security.

They want that person to help them through the process. they want that coaching. Yeah. And they're willing to pay for it, right? They need that and want that. I mean, putting that all back on the homeowner is a lot. And that's just additional stress because the home buying process is very stressful to begin with. Yes, 100%.

They need that expertise. So not having like, you know, we all don't need a personal trainer. But if you have a personal trainer, like it's much better than working out on your own. 100%. Yeah. Someone correcting your format. Like, because, you know, you deadlift wrong, you're breaking your personal. back. You're tweaking your back. You're out for two months. You know, not able to work out. So

there's a lot of value to having someone coach you through the process and making sure that your form is correct the entire time, right? Yeah, no, 100%. And I think that people need that. Need and want it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now, do you think there's a specific skill or a mindset that someone entering the mortgage industry must have to succeed in this environment? I think it depends on what role you're looking to fulfill. But if you're looking to be consumer-facing, let's say, or production-related, I think you have to be interpersonal. Obviously, you have to be able to explain things.

And you have to be able to simplify things for people and find ways to help them understand. I played college tennis, and I taught tennis for a while. I thought I was going to be a tennis pro for a little while. But one of the things I learned in teaching tennis is you have to be able to say the same thing five different ways. because I say it one way it doesn't resonate. I say it another way, it doesn't. And finally on like the fourth time, I'm like, oh, now you have it. So I said it a different way and now it's clicking for you.

So I think that that's a good, important skill is you have to be able to communicate with people and find a way that they understand and it resonates with them. At the end of the day, you're helping people achieve their dreams. You know, whether it's, you know, homeownership, refinance, whatever it is, you're helping them achieve their dreams. And so you want to help them, you need to be able to communicate really well. now you've seen a lot of success as the president the co-president of plaza and you really don't have to grind as hard as you grind now but how do you continue to find that motivation to grind as hard as you do because i love it i love the industry i love what we do i love that we help people every day we're helping business owners we're helping them succeed in their business we're helping put homeowners many of them first-time homeowners into homes so we really get to help a lot of people. And I think that just keeps me going. Also our team, right? I love helping our team be

successful. It's a challenging market. There's no doubt about it. So helping our salespeople, our account executives, our management team, finding ways to help them grow their business, keeping them uplifted every day really keeps me excited. So. Now, you mentioned earlier that Plaza Home Mortgages has very good technology. How is Plaza right now utilizing AI? You know, that's really good. We're actually formulating our AI plan right now. We'll probably use a lot of it internally first, just to source information, which we're working on currently.

And we're still working on trying to figure out the best way. There's obviously a ton of AI tools out there, and we're still figuring out where best to deploy it, you know, out to our client base. We'll first start internally. You're not going to use it for decision-making, underwriting? Not yet. I mean, we'll- Reviewing the documents. Yeah, we'll continue to watch it.

watch that and see, you know, we've deployed a lot of robots that do a lot of workforce today that we used to, you know, employ, you know, administrative people to help out. So we've saved a lot there. So we'll continue to review that and see, see what that looks like in the marketplace. You guys have deployed robots already? Yeah, we've got a lot of bots, yeah. Nice. So what are they doing for you? Everything, pretty much. Just give an example, you know, when you order an FHA case number, that request used to come over and somebody would type in all those fields and how a bot does that and then takes the case and uploads it sends to the client all automated uh that's awesome a lot of emails i mean we've we've really really put everywhere we can

we have placed bots into place that's good you guys are ahead of the curve with you know ahead of a lot of lenders that are not implementing a lot of that stuff now um now what i've noticed with with Plaza, you got a lot of great leadership, a lot of, you know, a lot of great talent. How are you fostering talent at Plaza? Yeah. So, you know, talent's always about development. It's about, you know, helping them achieve their goals, the associate, whatever that goal may be. And I think it's about communication. I think ensuring that you have meetings one-on-ones is super important for both sides, around to make sure that we're clearly communicating and we're, as a company, we're helping, you know, the associate achieve their goals and dreams. And also the other side,

the associate wants to make sure that they're helping the company move the needle to wherever we are. So I think communication is super important and making sure that everyone's moving forward. So I think that's really the key to a lot of things. Yeah. Really the key in that process. Now, one thing I noticed about Plaza and one of the things the key distinguishes with Plaza is that you guys are, you know, you're willing to take bigger risk, especially in the decision process for loans. How important is taking risk to your organization? Well, two things there. One, we are in the risk business. So, you know, we say we're in the mortgage business, we're really in the risk business, whether it's credit risk, interest rate risk,

whatever may be, that's the business that we're in. So I don't think we take any more risk. I just think we're really good at evaluating it. So we're able to look at loans and say, you know what, uh, XYZ company may not be comfortable, but we are comfortable because we can, we feel like we can assess it better. And we've got more experience. We've done it for 24 years. We feel comfortable that, uh, this is a, these are transactions that we can properly say, you know, that we think this is a good loan. So I think that's really, and we've really always focused ourselves on product. So when you have a lot of product variability, you need to be able to have a lot of underwriting expertise that can also kind of, you know, follow that.

So we do, you know, I don't even know, seven different renovation loan products, I think. You know, we do reverse loans. We do all these other products. So you have to have expertise in each one of those to really be able to properly assess it. Yeah, I mean, now one thing you guys have done really, like, where you guys just dominate the market is the lower FICO FHA. How long have you guys been crushed in that market? We've been doing it quite a while.

I don't know if I remember the day, but we've been doing it for quite a while. You know, we're really comfortable in that environment, and that space helps a lot of people, helps put people into homes. Now, tell me a little bit about yourself. Like, how did you grow up? You know, what was life like as a child for you? Life was interesting. I grew up in Seattle.

Okay. And, you know, my dad was a traveling salesperson. My mom worked. Sales is in your blood. Yeah, sales is in my blood, right? He traveled around. And my mom worked evenings at the bank and, you know, it was a pretty typical childhood. And I grew up, I was playing tennis, as I mentioned, and played high school, played a little bit of college.

And quickly realized that I loved Seattle, right, beautiful place, beautiful part of the country. But at the time I realized I wanted to kind of experience other parts of the country. So right after I graduated college, I moved to New York, spent about 16 years there. And then, like all good New Yorkers, they eventually moved down to Florida. few years ago. So, you know, I've kind of traveled. You're going to take the weather. Yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, it's a little easier lifestyle. I'll call it a little better weather. So that's it. You know, I, I've enjoyed, I've been in this industry a long time. I say it's all I've ever done. Other than this and teaching tennis, all I've

ever done. So I've really enjoyed it. As I mentioned earlier, I love helping the people. I love the complexities. Even as long as I've done this, there's things that come across every once in while. I'm like, wow, I've never seen that before. I don't know how many. You're still always learning. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I don't know how many industries you can say you've been doing this for, you know, 30 years. And you're like, wow, I've never seen that before. So. Such a unique business like that.

You know, it's just ever growing, ever growing. Now, you're so busy all the time with work and the family and everything. What are some of the things you like to do to slow down? Play tennis is a big one for me, right? Still playing tennis. Oh, yeah. It's not pickleball now. Still tennis.

Yeah, still tennis. Yeah. No, we've got some pretty good teams that we travel nationally sometimes. So we've got some pretty good teams. playing competitive tennis? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, no, I enjoy it. So I still play a lot of tennis.

I don't really, I enjoy golf, but I don't really have time for it. That's kind of a major time commitment. Yeah. I don't enjoy that as much. Family time, you know, time at the beach, obviously spending time, you know, with the kids. I think helping out in the community, you know, Mal Washington was a good friend of mine. He was a former Wimbledon finalist. And he has a great foundation in Jacksonville.

my wife and I spend quite a bit of time with the inner city youth program there helping there and working with them as much as we can. So you serve a lot with them, huh? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, that's the point of our life, you know, right? It's just give back to serve, do God's work. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you're, you played, did you ever play professional tennis? No, no, no, no, played a couple years in college and that was it. So you played, what, it was D1, D2? Yeah, no, actually junior college at the time. Okay. Yeah, I had the opportunity to go to Division I and I elected to go a different route for a while. All right, cool.

So pivoting a little bit. Now, what is your favorite quote? So I've got a couple of them. One is sort of business related and one is more sort of strategic, I guess. I'll start with the business related one. And I say this a lot. In fact, people probably already hear me. That is bad news doesn't get better with age.

In other words, you know, if you have something you need to do and you don't want to do it, our natural inclination is to put it off, whether it's bad news or a task or whatever. I'm like, you have to just take care of that. Bad news does not get better with age. Just tackle it, be done. You'll feel better and you'll go on. So that's sort of my day-to-day one that I try to live by, and I try to instill in people. And another one is actually from Michael Jordan.

And he said, and hopefully I get this right, he said, talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships. And that's sort of the slow, you know, to me that tells me the slow game wins, right? Be thoughtful, be methodical about your actions and, you know, long term, you'll win. Especially in our business. Like, you don't become the best lender by yourself. No, no, 100%. Like your team, and here at our organization, like collaboration is why we're winning, community is why we're winning.

You know, we win together. where we're 900 independent brokers in one organization that are just sharing all of our ideas and all of our creative genius. So, you know, that's a great quote. Yeah, no, I love it. It's, and I think it hopefully keeps you on task. Now, what's the best piece of advice you ever received? Best piece of advice I ever received. I don't know. It's probably going back. back to the quote I said, which is tackle the things you don't want to do first, right?

Because we all have things, whether it's working out or, you know, whatever it is. Tackle the things that you really don't or fearful or, you know, whatever it is. Just get it done, right? You know, people put off going to the doctor because they're afraid what the doctor is going to say. I'm like, well, I'm pretty sure if you do have something, it's not going to get any better by itself. So, you know, just tackle it. Get it done. And I think that that's been really helpful for me over the years because I think people generally tend to put off things that could be bad or they don't want to, you know, handle things like that, especially if it involves other people and they know they're going to be upset.

You know, I'm going to put that one off a little bit. Yeah, there's a similar quote from Marcus Aureli, is a famous Stoic. And he said, Swallow Toad in the morning. Yep, absolutely. Just exact same thing, yep. Bang it out. You know, like swallow the toe in the morning. Yep.

You'll feel better and you can move on. Now, if you were 20 years old, what would you tell your 20-year-old self to build wealth right now? I would probably tell my 20-year-old self to buy real estate and just keep buying. And don't ever sell. Hold on to it. Just keep accumulating and finding the opportunities. And I think the other thing. too is is when markets represent themselves take action you know 2008 nine 10 there was a lot of

real estate opportunities that happened as a result of that you know there's been other markets over my over the years that there's been opportunities so when those when you see those and you're like wow it's a really good deal take advantage of it yeah go all in yeah that's that's that's great advice yeah you know a lot of controversy around real estate always right and people are like, oh, do I buy, do I not buy the interest rates of housing? Like, buy. Yes. Simple solution, just buy.

Up, down, left, right? Like, just buy it. Yeah. Find the value, right? You know, do your homework. Right, don't buy anything and everything. But do your homework, find the value. And I think it'll always make sense for you.

And do your home, you know, figure, know what you're buying. Now, this is a pretty controversial question, especially in the mortgage industry. How important do you think it is to go to college these days? It's a really good question, actually. I think it's an individual choice, to be honest with you. I think you really have to decide whether it's right for you. Yeah. I think...

Did your kids go? Absolutely. My son went four years and he's probably going to go to graduate school because that's just what he wants to do and where he wants to study and the fields he wants to go into. But it's not necessary. I think that you... Tradesmen are making way more than college graduates. I was just going to say that.

You know, I have a good friend of mine and his son and he was trying to figure out what to do. And I was trying to convince him to be a plumber and electrician. I'm like, that's- They're making $150 an hour now. At least. I said, that's the place to go, right? If school's not for you, then, you know, there's certainly a lot of places that you can do really well. If you're driven and you take some good advice.

Yeah. Now, I like to close out the show with a couple last questions, okay? Sure. This is a three-prong question. Okay, what is a personal goal that you have for yourself? what's a business goal that you have for Plaza and what's a family goal that you have for the family? Okay. You can answer them in any order.

So, business goal. So fourth quarter of last year, Plaza made it to the fourth largest wholesaler, according to the inside mortgage finance. Wow. Yeah, so our goal is, my goal is to try to see if we can, you know, go up one more chain on that ladder. Get to three. I mean, that's a big jump. What was net? What would you guys close out with in volume?

And for 2023? Yeah. I think total as a company, we were around 11 billion, so roughly, give or take. And what do you think your numbers look like this year? Are you guys up? I think we'll be fairly close to that number, right? It depends.

We really only do third-party channels, wholesale correspondent, but I think we'll be pretty close to the same numbers. About 11 billion? Yeah, roughly. And then what about for your, personally personally I think it's you know I don't I I said a lot of personal financial goals you know personal financial goals I set a lot of personal you know conditioning goals you know weight all the typical family stuff so I'm not

going to go through the whole ladder but I think it's it's I'll just say to continue to be the best version of me every day right continue to exercise and work out and contribute to the company contribute to my family and And, you know, I've got a pretty good list of lengthy goals of independent things that I tried. And what I do is I set it out and I look at it every month, you know, and cross off what I can, right? What is able to accomplish? Add some, some are kind of in perpetuity. But we continue to do that.

I think it's really important to stay active today and continue to, you know, do as much as we can. And then for the family. Any big family goals? Yeah, probably mostly around my son. So my son, I think he just mentioned he started his first job. We got him moved in. So a lot of change. you know, bought him a car, moved into his new apartment, and just continue to support him

and make sure he knows that we're here to help him and do whatever he needs to do himself. So, you know, he moved to a new city and started a new job and his commuting on a train when he wasn't used to it. So a lot of change. What city do you move to? He moved to Arlington, Virginia. Okay. He's moving in Maryland, so he's kind of going through the D.C. area. So he's super, super excited about the opportunity, but I just want him to always know that we're here to help him.

How many kids do you have? Just one. Just one boy? Yep. You did a great job, you know? Son started a consulting company, started a consulting company, going to grad school. I mean, you ran the race with your kids, you know? Yeah, yeah.

So it says a lot. It's a testament to you as a father. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks. Now, my last question, and I like to ask everybody this question, when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you? God's going to hopefully look me in the eye and say, two things. One, you always did what was right, and you did your best to help as many people as you could.

Love it. So those are two things I really try to live by. Jeff, it was a pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming on the show today. Coffees for Closers, co-president of Plaza Home Mortgage. Awesome guest. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you.