Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Mortgages to Major Leagues ft. Mat Ishbia | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 25

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Coffees for Closers. Today I'm truly blessed to introduce not only a mentor of mine, but someone who's really impacted the entire mortgage industry forever. A personal mentor of mine, someone who I really, really admire a great father, a great servant leader, and someone who's going to change the landscape of mortgage history, the president and CEO of United Wholesale Mortgage, the owner of the Phoenix Suns and Mercury, please welcome the one, the only Matt Ishbia. Awesome. Thanks, Joe. Nice intro. I appreciate it, buddy. Thank you so much for being on the show, man. Absolutely. It's an absolute blessing to have you. It's an absolute blessing to be sitting

Starting point is 00:00:52 in your presence right now and really diving into your genius and, you know, your genius and the things that you have on the horizon for United Wholesale, for the Phoenix Suns, and, you know, for all of us independent mortgage brokers. So the first thing I like to do with every podcast guest is just a bit of an icebreaker is how does Matt Isbiyah start his morning? Well, every morning, I get up early. So I'm an early riser. I get up early, and I'm real big on getting out the door quickly.

Starting point is 00:01:23 So if I wake up, it's usually 22 minutes out the door. So I wake up, I'm in the shower, shave, brush, my teeth, get out the door, get dressed, suit and tie every day, as you can see, and I'm out the door. And so I try to make sure that I don't waste time in the morning because I do get up early and I want to get my day started so I can get all the things that are, you know, hanging over the day before or ideas or things out to my team members so we can actually get stuff done that day. I don't wait until 11 o'clock to send notes or emails to people. It's 435, 530. The morning I'm getting all my stuff out. So therefore they're getting back to me by 10, 11,

Starting point is 00:01:53 and we can actually make action that day. So I'm an early rides or I get going early and excited. Yeah, I notice you're in the office sometimes 3.34 in the morning. Yeah, I did it for 17, 18 years where it was 3.34 in the morning, 4 a.m. suit and tie every day. Now, with the Phoenix Suns and Mercury, I even like that, you know, I watch some of the games. And so I watch all the games, to be clear. And so when they stay up late, sometimes it's harder when you're getting at 4 a.m. But I'm six hours of sleep. And I feel good.

Starting point is 00:02:16 No coffee, nothing. Just water all the day, every day in my whole life. No caffeine. Like, it's just water and go. Six hours of sleep gets me going. I love that purity. about you, Matt, and I'm still in my own, like, struggles with, you know, caffeine or whatever, I'm still trying to aspire to be like that. I'm like, Matt doesn't drink coffee. I'm going to

Starting point is 00:02:36 McDonald's Coke is the only Coke. The only thing I'll drink with caffeine, that's because I can't, can't pass up with McDonald's my kids, you know? So can you share a pivotal moment that really helped shape your leadership style? You know, so many moments. Like, I think leadership, you know, servant leadership, as you mentioned earlier, like, it's all about helping other people be successful and they'll help you be successful. And so a pivotal moment, like, I learned a lot from Tom Izzo. I learned a lot for my father. Tom is my basketball coach at Michigan State.

Starting point is 00:03:05 It's one of the best basketball coaches, you know, in history, college basketball. And then my father's well. And the thing I learned about is like a big thing is like, you know, you got to be the leader. You got to show people that you're going to do things. Like telling people like I just have leaders, everything, people have leaders like, oh, show up early and stay late. And then those leaders are coming in 11 o'clock and going golfing at three.

Starting point is 00:03:26 I'm the opposite. I don't ask anyone to do anything that I'm not willing to do times 10. And so like I say, coming at, like I have leaders that come here at 6, 7 in the morning. I'm coming at 4.

Starting point is 00:03:36 And so leadership is, you've got to earn the right to lead people. You've got to earn the right to show them that you, and you've got to do that by being that leader, being that perfect example of everything. And so I'm not real big on lead by example. I'm a big lead by, I'm going to lead by doing everything the right way,

Starting point is 00:03:53 but I'm actually going to show you and talk to you and guide you, and push you and motivate you while serving you in any way I can. I love that. Now, looking back, you've done so many things right throughout your entire career at UWM. But if you were to look back at your younger self, any advice you'd give your younger self? Two things. So I always think, like, I've had some success in how you rank success, you know, like success.

Starting point is 00:04:16 Success to me is happiness. Like how do you get happy? But like, like, how did I, what would I have done differently? One, I would have dream bigger. You know, you can say, we've done pretty good here. We got 7,500 people here at UWM. We're the largest wholesale lender, largest lender in America, all these cool things.

Starting point is 00:04:31 But, like, I didn't even envision it. Like, I thought about, like, how do I get to making, like, $100,000? Like, I didn't think I could do bigger. And so, like, the way I like, there's a saying out there, you know, shoot for the stars and land on the moon or whatever. And, like, I could have shot even higher. And, you know, I believe that motivating yourself to think big. And, like, hey, I want to be the best loan officer at my company.

Starting point is 00:04:53 That's great. That's a big goal. How to be the best loan officer in my state? How do you the best loan officer in the country? How would be the best loan officer that's ever lived? How do you think like that? And that's how I think is one thing. So I think I could have thought bigger.

Starting point is 00:05:06 But the biggest thing I would actually tell my younger self is utilize resources. There's so many, like your podcast. Like if I would have seen this podcast and been to listen to some of your guests you've had and some of the things you said, like I would have got better faster. Too many people sit there trying to figure out themselves. Like use your resources. And our mortgage chain, one of my big jobs is to provide resources to all. over our LOs and partners throughout America.

Starting point is 00:05:27 People like yourself help you be successful. But the worst thing is I've spent so much money and time and effort to provide these resources and some people don't use them. And so as a younger guy, I was always like, I'll figure it out myself. I got it. Rather than like if someone's putting out their hand, grab it and you use it. Because not too many people put out their hand for you. So when someone's offering resources, you have reset your fingertips, take advantage of it.

Starting point is 00:05:47 Yeah, a lot of people really neglect the resources. They just think that they could do it on their own. And I know that's something you continue to preach. It's something I always preach to my people. It's like, I'm doing everything for you. Again, to reference this podcast, like we're bringing on the most brilliant minds in the mortgage industry, just giving out their trade secrets.

Starting point is 00:06:05 So it's something that... Why not use them? Why, like, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Take the wheel that they've already built. That's amazing. And you've got to add some stuff to it to make it a little better. That's cool. But don't reinvent the wheel.

Starting point is 00:06:14 Like, go take it and make it better. Now, something I'm really impressed by, Matt, is the culture that you've built here at UWM. It's just unbelievable. Can you share some of the secrets that you, you've utilized to really establish such an incredible company culture here? Well, there's two big things. So culture is everything.

Starting point is 00:06:31 Like people, like people talking about strategy and I got to go, how are the way? People, you have to have an amazing culture. And the way you build a great culture is, one, and most importantly, is you have to care. It can't be like I say all this BS and I've got to put these cool slogans on a wall and I actually don't care about my people. When someone's family member dies, you reach out to them. When so it's a birthday, you email. I have 7,500 people here.

Starting point is 00:06:52 I email every one of them on their birthday. Now they get realized that's 365 days a year, okay? That's 20 plus people a day. And some days it's 30 or 40. I send an email to them, hey, Joe, hope you're having a great day, day, happy birthday. Almost all of them respond to me. I almost respond to almost all them back with a smiley face or thanks, they tell me they have a great day too.

Starting point is 00:07:10 Like, I care about them. And then I walk by them, I'm like, hey, Joe, how's your wife doing? What's going on? Like, you talk to people about things that matter. And when you care about them, you know what happens? They care about you. That's how you create a great culture. They can't just be one person.

Starting point is 00:07:21 All your leaders have got to do that. And the second big thing I talk about is you got to know what matters to them. Like when you run a business, you own a business. A lot of people on the podcast and watch, like you own your own business. Like, guess what? They don't care about your business like you do. Right? They just don't.

Starting point is 00:07:35 Right. What do they care about? And so my whole business philosophy here at UWM is to find out what my team members and then my clients care most about in deliberate form. What do team members care about? They care about their families. So I work like balanced matters. So I don't have people working 60, 80 hours a week.

Starting point is 00:07:52 I want to work in 40, 45 hours, so I staff appropriately so everyone can get home beyond the weekend. So work-life balance matters. You know what I care about? Opportunity. Opportunity to grow. I rarely, I have 750 people that lead teams here to our company, right? So out of 7,500 people on average, I buy about 9, 10 people on their teams.

Starting point is 00:08:07 But 750 leaders. You know how many of those leaders I hired in as a leader? Less than 20. So, I mean, 730 of them were people that got promoted. Opportunity, opportunity to grow. And so you find out what matters to people, right? Work life balance and opportunity to grow, which means more money, more responsibilities, give them opportunity. I don't care about if you're a degree or any about that stuff.

Starting point is 00:08:28 I care about how hard you work here, how much you care hair. And then the last piece, like I said, which is the first thing is you got to care about people. And so you do those things. You care about people. You find out what they want. You deliver it. You're going to have an amazing culture. And like all this stuff when you walk around our campus, you see like basketball courts and

Starting point is 00:08:44 doctor's offices and free coffee and Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts and all that cools up. That's all lipstick on a pig if you still have a pig. You still got to have a great building, great business, a great culture. That's not like putting the slides in people. That's all BS if you don't have an amazing culture to start with. Like you said, that's just the optics. But the real stuff is how you care about people and you take care of what they want. That's awesome.

Starting point is 00:09:05 Now, we were having a discussion yesterday with some of the top brokers. And they were talking about, you know, the investment that you're putting into realtors, right? And bringing them out here. And they're like, I just don't know when that's going to pencil for UWM. And I said, you know, Matt doesn't play the short game. He doesn't, that's not, that doesn't matter. Matt's playing the long game. Like, he, he's bringing these realtors out here because he knows that in the end,

Starting point is 00:09:30 the business is going to come back at some point to UWM. Now, whether these realtors are producing or not, doesn't matter right now. Now, to tie it into the question is like, how important is taking these risks to your business? Yeah, so two parts. First, like, flying out our clients to get trained and have them bring real estate. It's like, like, I do zero things at this business. I'm a publicly traded company. I do zero things in this business that's like,

Starting point is 00:09:54 hey, if I do this, what's my ROI? Like, I can care less. I do it because it's the right thing you do, and I believe it's going to help long term. If it doesn't, it doesn't, but I believe in it. And the worst case scenarios, I help train real estate agents or LOs, and they got better and they help consumers

Starting point is 00:10:06 and they never use UWM. It's perfectly cool. Like, I don't think that's what ends up because I think we're the best lender in America. We're from a rates, process, speed, ease of use. Like, we're the best. I know that. I feel good about that,

Starting point is 00:10:17 and that's a big part of the business. But of course I fly, people out here. Of course I want them to get trained. You've got to pour into things. People that think about return, oh, if I spend this, what am I going to get for it? You're a short-term thinker. I'm thinking about, I'm doing right things. I'm impacting. I'm making things. Like, what's the return on investment? I'm being out of podcast. Like, this is the right thing. We're going to want Best Clines America. One of the best mortgage owners in America, which you are, it's an honor to be on here. And if one person out there is watching and picks up something

Starting point is 00:10:41 for me, man, I feel really good about myself. No one's going to remember how much money you have or how many loans you close. They're going to remember what impact you made on it. So, so, so, Of course, I think, and so I don't even look at it as a risk. I know your question is about it. Is that a risk? It's not a risk. It's a risk if I don't do it. Like there's a saying in business, I like this. When I talk about this a lot, like I always do, when I speak to owners or companies, you're in a lot of owners like, has anyone ever hired someone?

Starting point is 00:11:04 And you put a lot of effort and energy and trained them. The coach would be great. And then they left you. And they're like, everyone raised their hand, right? Of course they have. And they're like, that sucks, right? You spend thousands of hours. You spent hours training them.

Starting point is 00:11:17 And then I'm like, yeah, that sucks. So the alternative is, what if you don't train them and coach them and help them get great and they stay? And they work for you. Like, that's the worst thing, right? Like, imagine, like, you don't help them get better than they work for you. Like, you've got to pour into people. And you know what? Don't worry about yourself always.

Starting point is 00:11:35 Worry about other people do right. And great things happen. And that's what's worked for me for, you know, I'm going to hear 21 years at UWM, you know, and counting. And I'm loving it. And now we're doing the same thing with the Phoenix Suns and the Phoenix Mercury. You know, Matt, it's just like, it's just humbling to see your ideology on that because, you know, reminds me of like, I was reading something earlier today about Marcus Aurelius of ancient Roman Empire, you know, Roman emperor. And he just like was, you know, he had very humble roots, Roman emperor.

Starting point is 00:12:08 And you're, you know, you have that same kind of trait. You know, you have these resources. You just pour into people. You don't care about the money. You just, you're willing to give beyond measure. And it's just very noble what you're doing for these people. Because these realtors, a lot of them are dead broke. They would have never even imagined coming in and staying in a five-star hotel and getting treated like royalty when they come out here.

Starting point is 00:12:29 But you know what? If it helps them grow and succeed, then we all win together. Consumers win, lawyers win, real estate agents and winning UW. Like, we're all a team. And like when you take care of, you pour into your teammates, your partners and help them succeed. And good things usually happen. If they don't happen, it's okay. You still pour into people.

Starting point is 00:12:46 because if you don't, then you're by yourself and running a really small business that way, then. You know, one thing, and this, a lot of people want to know this is like, despite all of your financial success and all of the success you've had, you still manage to come in every single day, four, five, six in the morning. You know, now you're coming in a little later because the Phoenix Suns and the Mercury. How do you, what motivates you every single day to have that sort of drive? Well, so, first of all, I love what I do. I love that I can make an impact. Like it's an honor to be on this podcast.

Starting point is 00:13:17 Like this is cool. Thousands of people are going to watch this and they hear me in. They said one, like that's pretty cool. I get the opportunity. So I look at it as a positive. I get the right to come in here early. I'm blessed that I come in here every day and people, you know, listen to what I say and think I know what I'm talking about. I can collaborate with people.

Starting point is 00:13:32 We can make things better for the industry for America, for our consumers, for our clients. And so, and for our team members as well. And so I feel like that's an honor to be able to do it. And so I wake up with energy. Like I never focused on money. I never chased my. I chase my. I chase success.

Starting point is 00:13:46 and money has always followed success. And that's how I chase winning. Everything I want to do, I want to win. And you know what? When you win a lot, money will follow. And usually when you win a lot, you know what really more important than money? Happiness follows.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Like, I love winning because it feels great. I love helping people win, right? Whether it's a little kids baseball game, whether it's mortgage companies, whether it's basketball teams, whether it's someone I just met on the street that I can help them be successful. And so, like, I'm lucky that people want to listen to me.

Starting point is 00:14:12 One day in the future, no one will want to listen to me, no one will want to talk to me. I won't have that impact. and no one remembers how much money you make. No one remembers how much, like, that's all BS. But the real stuff is, did you help someone? Can you help impact people in a positive way?

Starting point is 00:14:25 And sometimes it's as small as going up and saying hello and checking it on them. It's not some business strategy. But, you know, being a human being and checking in with the person that's cashing you out at their cash fetter and seeing how she's doing and seeing what's up with her and her husband and like being a human being, like that's the best stuff. And like, I get to do that every day. I don't got to. I get to.

Starting point is 00:14:43 I'm lucky to it. that I get to mentality is just amazing to listen to from you, from your mindset. And I really feel like obviously it's been instrumental in your growth. And one thing I really admire about you, and a lot of people don't know this, is that you get to coach youth sports. And I know that we've talked about you getting to coach your kids in basketball. Now, with your schedule, how do you find time to coach youth sports? Because it's the most important thing I got.

Starting point is 00:15:15 It's more important than anything else. More important than UW.S. More important than my kids are my kids. I got three of them. So I coached their basketball team. I coached the baseball teams. I coached football teams. I coached baseball too.

Starting point is 00:15:25 All of them. I coached baseball last night. We lost, unfortunately. But we're in second place right now. But I coached their baseball teams. My daughter's basketball teams. My boys' football teams tackle and flag. Because I prioritize that.

Starting point is 00:15:38 That matters. And so maybe I got to get up a little bit earlier. Right. But I will not miss a game. I will not miss that. I will fly back to get back in town to be there because that stuff matters. Because guess what? My kids are 13, 10, and 9.

Starting point is 00:15:51 And when they're 23, 20, and 19, they ain't going to have me coach their stuff. They're not going to call me, hey, coach my intramural dad. Come, like, that's a short window of time. I'll still be to run UWM. I'll still be involved with the sons and the mercury. But, like, I miss that time. And so I prioritize it. I make it important to me and it's important to them.

Starting point is 00:16:10 And, like, we have the same stuff. Like, they get mad of me. I get mad like we're normal family like everything but you prioritize what matters and like people can't tell you something matters to them but they don't put their time in it and like I can't I don't make every game I'll say that because there's times I miss stuff and there's times I have to be out of town but like it's a priority you make it one that's just incredible here and that really just is it I lag that I was like an assistant coach on baseball that I really should have stepped it up well and I love it I love being involved with it and you know what the nice thing is I

Starting point is 00:16:38 compliments from other parents not because we win championships we do most of the time. It's because the positivity. Think about, like, I feel like that's the impact I can make. I had a parent come up to me the other day and it's like, hey, my son loves playing on our team. He plays on a travel team and the coaches are not positive with him. He is so excited to energize to play for your team because you're always telling everyone to clap it up and cheer each other on. Even when they strike out, you high five them. Like, that stuff matters. And like having a mother say that to me about their kid is more important than a winning a champion. Like, that's impact. I'm making on a nine-year-old little boy.

Starting point is 00:17:10 man i wish my nine-year-old boy played on your team love to have them um now any parallels that you could draw between coaching youth sports and running the phoenix sons and uwm absolutely there's so many parallels i mean it's sports and mortgage business and sons and mercury and it's there's the most important parallel is all about people and showing them you believe in them like i believe that when you show someone you believe in them that's the most powerful thing you can give them more than money more than anything, more than leaves. You show them you believe in them and they'll be successful.

Starting point is 00:17:44 So I show a little nine-year-old boy last night that I believed in him and he's going to hit the ball well. He hit the ball the best he's ever hit all year. He hit the ball, you know, got on base. He hadn't got on base all season. Like, you show someone you believe in him. You care about them and you, I-five, and this is going to be your guy. This pitcher can't.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Like, you show them you believe in them. And same thing with the sons and the mercury. Like, you got to show my GM and my coach and my CEO that I believe him, the players that I believe and we appreciate them, like showing love and appreciation and belief. And that works in the order. business. So we see with my clients. Like, I believe in you. Like, you're one of the best operators in the business. Like, I believe in what you're doing and showing that and caring about

Starting point is 00:18:17 people, that stuff travels. Caring about someone and believing in someone that travels across all business, whether you're a chef, whether you're a restaurant here, whether you run a bar, whether you run a insurance business, a mortgage business, or anything. Belief in someone and caring about them, that travels. You know, and that really hits me at home because, you know, you hit those low moments. in time when you just like, oh man, is this guy going to make it? Is that possible? And hearing what you said about the nine-year-old boy hadn't gone on base all season,

Starting point is 00:18:49 like we ran into that a couple times as well with some kids. And it's keeping their confidence up. It is tough, whether they haven't got a loan all quarter or whatever it is. Whatever it is. And when they think that you believe in them, their coach or their CEO or whoever they, like they believe that you believe in them, pops their chest up, gives them the best chance. Like, it doesn't mean they're going to be to come to the next.

Starting point is 00:19:10 great home run hitter, but it gives them the best chance to be the best version of themselves. And that's what the leader's job is. Help your people be the best version of themselves. As well, my job is here every single day at UWM with sons and Mercury, help them be the best version of themselves. And if they're the best version of themselves, we got a chance. Now, one thing a lot of people admire around here is your dad. And me too, I never had the opportunity of speaking to him, but he's just raised some incredible kids. You, your brother, Justin, and it's like you've turned out to be awesome human beings and awesome leaders. Now, how are you instilling that same level of grit and work ethic in your kids?

Starting point is 00:19:48 Yeah, it's the same thing with my mom and dad both made a huge impact. My mom was a teacher for 25 years. My dad's an attorney. He's done great things. My dad taught me about caring about other people. You always put other people first. Take care of them and they'll take care of you back. So I learned a lot of that, but also work ethic from my mom and my dad.

Starting point is 00:20:03 But like the drive and the grind. And they've instilled that in my, and me and my older brother, Justin, too. And so, like, that kind of stuff, that stuff works. And so the same thing with my kids. Like, we don't recognize, I don't reward home runs or an A on the test for my son or daughter. As well as I do, I really appreciate how you studied for 45 minutes for this. Like, you're doing, I reward work ethic.

Starting point is 00:20:28 And I encourage work ethic and positivity more than I reward the results. The results come because of work ethic and positivity. And so now, am I a perfect parent? Absolutely not. Do I screw up? Do I get frustrated with my kids? Do they get frustrated? Like, of course they do.

Starting point is 00:20:41 Like, I'm a normal dad just like anyone else. And I'm divorced. So it's like I'm trying to do both things. Like I got my kids, you know, half the time. And every minute I'm with them, I'm trying to pour into them. But with that being said, you know, it's all about making sure that you reward the actions, not the results. The results like, you know, my son hitting a home run last night, right?

Starting point is 00:21:00 Like, that's great. But I walked up to him after I go, aren't you so glad we went to the batting cage? last weekend. Like, that stuff matters. And he's like, yeah, I'm going to keep getting hits. Like, he got excited. Not, and it wasn't just because he hit the home run, but that was the result. The action that mattered was the batting cage this weekend and going there and hitting

Starting point is 00:21:17 off 55 mile per hour and 45 mile per hour pitches and being prepared for this really good pitch we played against last night. That's the stuff that wins. Yeah. And instilling preparation in a nine-year-old is not easy. Oh, and I'm not great at it. I'm not perfect. We work on it.

Starting point is 00:21:32 I got three kids. All three may handle it differently. My oldest son doesn't really want to practice as much. My daughter loves praying. My little guy is a machine. And you've got to have to motivate and catch them doing it right. My dad taught me that is catch people doing things right. Like always catch them, when they're doing something, gives them positive love to people.

Starting point is 00:21:50 And when you do that, it encourages and excites them to do it again. And that's a big part of my belief in leadership. Yeah. And, you know, just seeing you as a father, as a leader, as a servant, it's just so inspiring, Matt. And this podcast has been, you know, very, very inspiring to me as, you know, also as an attempted servant leader. You're doing a great job. I see the work you're doing. You're doing excellent.

Starting point is 00:22:15 You're leading and motivating people. And even this podcast, like I said, you impact one person, right? The fact that we're on it, like, if one person gets better, man, like, we did something today. That was a great 30 minutes, 40 minutes, 20 minutes, wherever time it is. Like that, think about if you can impact someone in 30 minutes of your time or an hour of your time, like, that's a huge deal. and you're doing a great job of it. Thank you, Matt. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:22:35 And I'm going to keep pushing. I'm going to keep pushing. Good. I invite, you know, all the people that continue to push you down. You know, you just kind of always rise above. And I know that's something that you always deal with. You know, and I have a couple last questions before I adjourn. How are you dealing with all of the adversity and all of the people just kind of always pushing you down?

Starting point is 00:22:52 I love it. I embrace it. So listen, like, we're the number one mortgage company in America. Have you seen any negative articles about the 73rd biggest? mortgage lender in America? Of course not. Nobody cares. When you're on top, people take shots at you, right? No one talks about, like I run an NBA team, no one talks about the guy that's on our G-League contract. It's not the level of the Kevin Durant or Denham Bookers or Bradley be like the super, like people take shots at people on top. You know why? It's just trying to make them

Starting point is 00:23:23 more like themselves. They're trying to bring you back to average. And so like I, like, of course, I read things that people say negative about me or something. And people can have their own opinions. But the reality is, there's not a person that's ever met me that will spend time with me. They won't believe in my vision and what I think of love. Because you know what? Let me get to know someone. That's how you can judge people. I tell my kids all time, they're like, oh, that celebrity did this or so and so. I go, if you have not spoke with them, if you've not talked to them, don't talk about them. Because you know what? They're not as good as you think. They might not be as bad as you think. Don't talk negatively about someone unless

Starting point is 00:23:52 you've met them and got to know them. If they treat you poorly, then that's a different discussion. But when you're on top, people are going to take shots. And I'm used to it. You know it bothers, it bothers my mother and my dad more than it bothers me. I mean, do. And my friends, my friends are like, are you okay? I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, if they're not talking about you, you're probably not doing big things. Like, people are going to always take shots to you.

Starting point is 00:24:12 And you know what? I always feel bad for the people that take shots at me. So I think myself, man, no one's ever poured into them and cared about them. Like, the fact that someone would go onto a Twitter or onto a website and say something negative about someone they'd never met, like, oh, that guys are loose. Like, like, what's going on in their life that they have to say something like that? I feel bad for him. I want to like give him a hug.

Starting point is 00:24:30 I want to say, hey, listen, come here. Why don't you call me? Let's talk. I can help you. Like, that's how I think about it. I think it's an opportunity. Like, sometimes I reach out to these people. Like, hey, man, what's going on?

Starting point is 00:24:38 Like, what made you think that? Like, let's talk about it. Now what do you think? And they're like, oh, you can't even call me. I'm like, you don't even see negative things about random people you don't even know. Right? Like, that's what I look at. It's an opportunity and I embrace it.

Starting point is 00:24:50 It's an opportunity to make someone else better. Absolutely. One last question. And, you know, I know, in my heart, like, how you're going to respond. But when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you? Well, I hope, you know, God tells me

Starting point is 00:25:09 that you made an impact on a lot of people and you've done a great job and that you will not be forgotten quickly because you know what? In 100 years from now, no one's going to remember us most likely. How do you make a lasting impact? And I hope he says,

Starting point is 00:25:20 you impacted people in a positive way, most likely your family and those close people around you and you left a positive legacy. And I hope that's what he says. they say to me, I hope that's what God says one day is that I've done a great job, because that's what I'm trying to do every single day out here. And that's not one week or one month.

Starting point is 00:25:36 I'm trying to be great. I'm trying to be great every single day and get better every single day and, you know, do the right things by people, by strangers, by loved ones, by everyone I can. And hopefully that's seen and noticed. It's definitely noticed. And it's definitely seen. And I definitely feel the impact of your sincerity, of the hope you instill in the mortgage community.

Starting point is 00:25:57 The last couple of years, a lot of people, were hopeless and you were that guy giving them positivity giving people good you know good information every single day to to really inspire people and you've been an inspiration to countless mortgage professionals and thank you for everything that you do for us madam it's an honor and a blessing to be sitting here with you you're an inspiration to all of us god bless you god bless your family keep coaching keep dominating i i wish oh one last thing i forgot to ask ask you it's a three-prong question but what What is a personal goal that you have for yourself, a business goal that you have for yourself, and a family goal?

Starting point is 00:26:35 Great. So, first of all, it's been an honor to be on this. You know, if I were to say, I'm going to start with a family goal. Like, I'm really big on tracking goal. I'm really big on goals. I track, you know, how much time am I spending my kids? And how impactful is that time? And so, like, a family goal I have is taking each of my three kids.

Starting point is 00:26:51 Once again, when you're divorced, it's hard because you've got them all at once on one-on-one dates, six one-on-one dates each year, along with 50 different experience. which is basically once a week with the three of them. So that's a big personal goal, family goals. I kind of put personal and family together because I'm nothing without my family. That's my personal and family goals. Business goals is all about the mortgage broker channel. Like I'm so all in with broker channel

Starting point is 00:27:13 and knowing that it's faster, easier, and cheaper for consumers. And it's crazy in this world that 75% of consumers go to the more expensive way, which is not to a mortgage matchup.com and find a local mortgage broker. So to me, that's my mission. My mission is how do I impact the world? because every time a consumer goes to a broker at mortgage matchup.com, what it does is it impacts them and saves them money.

Starting point is 00:27:33 And so, like, a personal goal is like, how do I grow the broker channel? That's all my focus on helping great companies like yourself grow and succeed. Helping you hire more loan officers, helping you help more consumers, helping you get more lead, like helping you win more because I know it's helping consumers. And so brokers and family, those are my goals, personal and professional. And at the same time, like, I'm okay sending goals I miss that I keep working at them every day. and it's good to have one big out there.

Starting point is 00:27:57 When he hit it, I celebrate for a day, and I say, okay, let's raise it. Let's make it harder, right? And then we go forward again the next year. We missed the Phoenix Sun's goal. Big Suns, win an NBA championship. Phoenix Suns and Mercury, that's business goals. We're going to win an NBA championship. We didn't win one this year.

Starting point is 00:28:12 You know what we're doing? Tweaking things. Figure out how do we win it next year? And the Mercury season just started, how do we win one championship? If we don't win one, like I told the people in the media, they ask questions like, oh, you guys didn't win a chance? Like, I'm going to own this team for 50 years. Guess what?

Starting point is 00:28:23 46, 47 times, 48 times. I'm going to be saying we didn't win a championship. I promise you we're trying every year. And we try to tweak things just like in the mortgage business. I don't win a championship the first year we started mortgages either. We're going to keep tweaking things and getting better and better and trying to win. You know, in your defense, and this happened last year, you always lose the playoffs to the team that's going to win the championship. Well, hopefully we're not going to lose next year.

Starting point is 00:28:44 That's the goal. We're going to keep winning and, you know, building. It's all about process. Nothing happens overnight. It's a process. And I love it. Yeah. That process is exhilarating to you, I'm sure.

Starting point is 00:28:53 Thank you, Matt. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for being a guest today. Thank you for having it. It's an honor to have you on the show. It's an honor for you to share your insight and genius with, you know, all the people watching today. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Starting point is 00:29:06 Appreciate it.

Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Mortgages to Major Leagues ft. Mat Ishbia | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 25

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