Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Playing the Long Game ft. Mark Lack | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Mark Lack built a multi-million dollar brand, made a big exit, and then went all in on Bitcoin—tripling his money in just over a year. But for Mark, success isn’t just about stacking wealth. It’s about playing the long game.From being one of the world’s best paintball players to becoming a top personal branding expert, Mark has always focused on staying ahead of the curve. In this episode, we talk about entrepreneurship, wealth, legacy, and the moments that shift your entire perspective.If you're thinking about building a brand, making smart investments, or figuring out what really matters in the end—this is one you’ll want to hear.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

He built a multi-million dollar brand, made a big exit, and then went all in on Bitcoin, tripling his money in just over a year. But for Mark Lack, success isn't just about stacking wealth. It's about playing the long game. From one of the world's best paintball players to one of the top personal branding experts, Mark has spent his life mastering one thing, how to get ahead before the rest of the world catches us. up. But here's the twist. After selling his company, Mark faced a life-changing moment that put everything into perspective. Today, we're talking about entrepreneurship, wealth, legacy, and what

really matters in the end. Welcome to coffees. Yeah, you know, bringing the energy already. Yeah, you know, it's a big intro for a young guy, you know, people are like, who is this dude? Joe's about the interview. It's nice to be called young because I have a three-year-old daughter, or she'll be three next month and that makes me feel old. You know, kids always make you feel old. Yes, indeed. We got four, we were talking about the kids and, you know, but they bring back your youth and they keep that vitality and keep you grinding.

For sure. You know, that's that fire that's inside of you. I could feel it's the vision. We said, you know, pain pushes until the vision pulls and kids help you get that vision dialed. Mark, let's get right into it. Big exit and Bitcoin, you know, tripled. It did, and I put it all in there.

So it worked out well. And that right there is a huge lesson, though, right? is it's like for me that was such a paradigm shift that I spent so many years over a decade working hard to make money and to have the financial freedom and the time freedom that comes with that and the choices you can have for your family and then I got liquidity that was of a of a good amount that I was able to then have the conviction and education on bitcoin and its future and put all of the money on Bitcoin at $25,000 and today we just tapped right around $74,000 again. So it's almost 3x in just over a year since I bought in heavy.

I had been buying in since 2020, but like I bought in heavy all the liquidity from that. And that mindset was like, whoa, I just made more money in my whole life doing nothing. My money went to work for me. I didn't have to work for my money. That shift of my money is working for me at such an accelerated rate. And I had educated myself on where to put that money.

Not some BS bond or money market fund. It's given me five and a half percent, A lot of my friends were like, my money's all tied up in this. And I was like, dude, you're getting 5%. You know what I mean? Like I'm up 180%, 200%, 300%? Like, what are you doing? And it was their lack of education reflects their lack of conviction.

And for me, I had heard about the proposition that this could be the number one technology in our lifetime and study it every single day, relentlessly. Because where else? Have you heard anything else that could be the number one thing of our lifetime? Have you heard anything? No. I want to learn about it. We were talking about like this is the highest performing asset. We were just at lunch.

We were just at lunch talking about this. Yeah. Ever. Like when you hear this is the number one asset and opportunity and technology in our lifetime, bro. Like a century. This is it. And I think ever. Ever.

Like right there with like the internet. But you couldn't like invest in the internet. You could invest in things built on the internet like companies. But like this is right there. It's like if you could have invested in the internet. And for some reason when people hear that, they don't just immediately go, maybe I should spend some time learning about this, right? Rather than sound bites off social media or whatever, it's like, dive in.

And like, I never heard anybody tell me like, this is the thing, dude. And so for me, I was like, whoa. And billionaires are saying this is the thing. And so I was like, whoa, I've never heard anybody talk like that before about a thing and an opportunity. And so I was like, I'm going all in on that. And it's paid off. So for people to understand, it's like if you find out what that thing is, go all in on it. Take the risk if you're young enough.

There's context here, right? Like, I don't know your situation and whatnot, not financial advice. Even though telling people to buy Bitcoin, it's commodity. You can tell people to buy it. It's not SEC. You don't have to worry about that. I'm not telling you to go buy a stock. I'm telling you to buy a commodity like gold.

I can tell people to buy that if I want. Yeah. But do your research. But I think when you do your research, you come to the inevitable conclusion that anybody does who's put 100 hours or more studying this. it's going to change everything. And that's why it's about to hit all-time highs, a new all-time high again before the election, and it's going to rip forever with volatility in between.

But like zoom out, real estate theoretically goes up forever. If you buy pristine real estate, it goes up forever as a reflection of the... I think all real estate goes up forever anyways. Right. Even if it's pristine or not. Pristine real estate because Bitcoin is pristine. So I'm trying to make the comparison that like if you buy the best commodity the year the best asset or the best real estate,

theoretically it should go up forever. And usually at a disproportionate rate. Beach real estate is just going to go up every year. It's not going to have that volatility. Right. You're comparing it to like prime beach real estate. But I don't want to turn this into a whole Bitcoin podcast because otherwise I will right now.

Yeah, yeah. No, we could easily talk about Bitcoin. I can talk about why it's better than everything. Yeah. Even per seen beach real estate. I know. We even got about so many reasons. Yeah.

But let's, because there's so many podcasts and educational platforms just on Bitcoin. but we did have a huge day today. So it's still early because I can already hear the people, you know, is it early? Is it still a good time to get in? Because you asked that at lunch today. Dude, you know what? I invested in Bitcoin and I lost my tail in 2018 and then I invest.

But see, had you held it, you'd be up so much. And that's the misconception that people have is you're never down if you hold it long enough, just like real estate. You're never down if you hold it long enough. And again, most right now, especially because it's at an all time high, no one's down. So technically I could say nobody's down right now. if they bought and held because we're at an all-time high. So anybody who bought and held at any point in time is theoretically up.

I love the, you know, I love the chatter about Bitcoin. I love where it's going and I love that it's continually going up, you know. And for those who are reluctant and we had this long discussion, it's still early. It's still early. All the sailor says it's year one of the 10-year gold rush. And so 2024 was the very beginning of what's going to be 10-year, years of Bitcoin adoption globally, institutions, governments, it'll be in your pension. You'll have it even if you don't know it because it'll be slipped into your pension and your 401k

and ETFs and, you know, like old people will have it and they don't even know they have it because it's just, well, it's Bitcoin. Yeah, because they're invested in funds that, you know, have to have a small allocation to it or they're invested in the S&P 500 and Michael Saylor's micro strategy MSTR is about to get added into that. Real quick, because I don't want to talk about MSTR, but we mentioned it at lunch today and it's such, so people can understand. like how MSTR stock

has gone up 1,200% in one year. It's gone up a lot. We could look at the exact numbers. 12, 1,300%. You don't need it. You know, all I know is had you...

It's on a ridiculous amounts. Yeah, a ridiculous amount. Unbelievable. And the reason why is because he took a unique, the CEO took a very unique strategy. You had Apple or Microsoft done the same strategy and how Microsoft's talking right now and they're bored meeting.

about doing the same thing. In December, if they're going to add Bitcoin to their balance sheet, instead of just having cash on their reserves, having some Bitcoin on them. I think that that's probably going to pass. If that passes, that's going to change the landscape for everybody. Because in January of 2025, so a couple months from now, the FASB accounting laws change, which shows fair value accounting versus intangible accounting. So companies like Microsoft to hold Bitcoin on their balance sheet can show, when Bitcoin

goes up, they can show it on their quarterly earnings that they had a positive impact on their balance sheet versus right now you can only show an impairment loss if bitcoin goes down you have to show that you can only show it went down if bitcoin went down and then it went up you you have to show the down you can't show that up so it's just like and again i'm not an accounting expert but like that's the gist of it is there was there's no reason for a big company to hold it on their balance sheet because you could only show losses not gains but in january that changes and micro strategy has shown that his stock went from two billion to 54 billion in just a few years $2 billion to $54 billion market cap in just a few years from buying Bitcoin, his stock goes up in proportion

out of 3x leverage. So if Bitcoin goes up 10%, his stock goes up 30%. And Bitcoin's up like 180% right now. So his stocks disproportionately up. Every company when they compare themselves to MSTR, probably like kicking themselves in the Even Nvidia is down compared to micro strategy. MSTR is up more. You were talking about MSTR makes Nvidia look like a little runt.

Yes. Their stock. Everyone's like, oh, I wish I bought NVIDIA. Well, actually, you wish you bought MSTR because it's up even more. And it still has a lot more to run because it's only at a 50 billion market cap where NVIDIA is at $3.6 trillion. So it's not like Nvidia is going to go up another 100X, but MSTR is for sure going to go up a lot. That's for sure going to go up a lot. That's a SEC.

That's stock. Well, okay. We're not saying to buy anything. We threw a lot at people really, really quick. But these are the plays you got to make, though, because the big thing that people need to understand, as we talk about stuff because like this is like macro like this dominates all else. Because we talk about a lot of things, but if the oxygen got sucked out of the room, like nothing else would really matter except getting oxygen.

And so like we could talk about a lot of things and it's great. But like the big thing that everybody has to understand is like the oxygen is being sucked out of the room. And what that means as a metaphor is the government is printing more money than they've ever printed in the last 200 years. And they're printing it at such an accelerated rate because the debt keeps piling up so fast and the interest on the debt keeps piling up so fast that. inevitably, if you look at other countries that are much smaller than us, but it happens nonetheless,

they get into hyperinflation where they have to print so much money just to survive that while you're literally eating lunch, like we just went and had lunch, they're erasing the price of the lunch on a whiteboard and writing a more expensive price before you've even finished the lunch. It costs more. By the time you're finishing the meal, the price has already gone up. That's how fast the inflation's happening. Now, for us, we're like, oh, yeah, the last four years, things cost a lot more since the pandemic. You know what I mean? It's like things cost more because they printed so many trillions of dollars. We actually like really noticed the inflation. Like my grandma is always like, it used to cost me $2 to go to the gas station and now it's 100. That's inflation over 80, 90 years. But if you look, the government printed more money in the last four years than they did in the last 200. That's a pretty disproportionate accelerated inflation rate. And so the point is if they keep doing this, it's like the old adage, the penny that doubles every day. Would you rather get a million dollars in cash?

right now or a penny that doubles every day for 31 days. Most people who haven't heard this before say, I'll take a million in cash right now because a penny that doubles every day can't possibly be more than a million dollars in 31 days because it's one penny, two pennies, four pennies, eight pennies. That can't possibly add up to more than a million dollars in 31 days. But crazy enough, on day 31, you have roughly $10 million in pennies. Ten million dollars. And the reason is because those last couple days, it's like $2 million, $4 million, $8 million. It's so rapid at the very end. And that's why there's a bunch of great books out there about hyperinflation, like Parker Lewis talks about gradually and then suddenly 200 years and then suddenly, boom, the last four

just rips your face off. The last four years of printing is the same as the last 200. That's hard to wrap your head around. So now you extrapolate the last four years over 10, 20 more years at this accelerated rate. I don't think we're going to have this kind of accelerated right now, especially with, you know, even if it just stays the same. I'm hoping it. Which it sort of has to. to. It sort of has to just to pay out. Yeah, if you understand unfunded liabilities and the 1.3 trillion we owe just an interest on the debt. It's crazy. I won't get into it because it'll be a whole different conversation that been going on. But the point is the government's printing more money than they've ever printed before. And that's going to make it more difficult for your typical

middle class consumer to go and buy things. Rent's going to cost more, gas is going to cost more, food's going to cost more. Everything's going to cost more. And the rate at which inflation is going up, the cost of goods, the cost of housing, the cost of things that you want to spend your money. Nobody wants money. They want what it can get you. And so that's why you don't want like money from another government that's like a trillion pesos or whatever, right? Like you may not want that or a bazillion lira. Like you may not want that.

You want U.S. dollars. That's why it's the global reserve currency for now. But you don't earn a percentage, annual income goes up 3% a year. So average person makes 3% more per year. But the inflation rate is much more than that. Like we were talking about, right? Like things that you want to buy, like food and.

a house is going up so fast. That's why they're saying, like, millennials won't own houses. Like, it'll be like the most disproportionate home ownership ever. Like, before it was like every baby boomer owns a house. Yeah. Now it's like, not many of my friends own houses and they'll never be able to afford in a house because the house keeps going up 10, 20% a year. In California especially.

Especially here. But their income goes up 3% a year, but the house goes up 10% a year. How are you ever going to afford it? You can't afford it now. How are you going to ever afford it? My house doubled in four years. Doubled in four years. That's not supposed to happen, dude.

Yeah. So any of my friends who love the neighborhood I lived in, they can't afford it now because it doubled. And their income didn't double in four years. No one's income double. Yeah. You know what yours did? You got that big exit, put it on Bitcoin to triple it.

But again, because I invested in something that's going to inflate faster than the rate of the money expansion. You see, this is where it's all going. I can get so rich doing nothing because I bought an asset that goes up faster than the monetary expansion rate. Just like my house doubled. Bro, I bought Bitcoin at the same time. I bought my house. My Bitcoin's up like 18x. My house is only up 100%. My Bitcoin's up 1,800%. So I probably shouldn't have bought my house. I should have bought more Bitcoin. You see my point? So invest in things that go up as a reflection of the monetary expansion rate. The more money they print, the more of my house will go up.

You know, while you were talking, it just reminds like everybody knows the classic way to get rich in America is real estate. Real estate. Real estate. That mantra or That was before Bitcoin. That was before. Everyone's now like, we will be telling our kids, well, invests to Bitcoin. Like, invests Bitcoin because it's going to keep going up. And this, it will probably be the new standard of wealth. The difference is you can fractionally own it.

So somebody can buy $100 worth of Bitcoin, but you can't buy $100 worth of a house. Yeah. One day we'll be talking like, I own like my dad's going to pass me down one Bitcoin. Oh, yeah. You're going to be a millionaire. I call it a whole coiner. Yeah. And one coin can be fractionized into 100 million units or Satoshi's.

So you can own 100 million, you know, fractionalized units of one full coin. So it's like pretty cool. Like there's a dollar and then there's a hundred pennies, right? There's a Bitcoin is 100 million Satoshes or little units. So owning one full coin will be a really big deal in the future. Yeah, it will be. Biggest companies in the world,

trillion dollar companies, BlackRock, they're all predicting Bitcoin's going to go to millions and millions of dollars for one single Bitcoin. It's unbelievable. So at $73,000, that's a pretty good, opportunity right there to go up. And they have a lot of interests in it going to that price.

And they will personally funnel, funnel it to that price. Yeah, they already are. Because they're going to just buy it up. What Black Rock's doing with real estate here in the U.S. They're like, let's just buy every property. Exactly. We possibly can. Exactly. But now they're seeing more light with Bitcoin. What you have to understand is if you have a nine to five job and you're watching this, you will never make enough money to afford the things you want in life, unless you're just a really rare decimal of 1% high earner who's in sales or some performance-based job where your income is not a reflection of your time, 9 to 5, but it's a reflection of your output.

So in sales, you get paid commission based on closing a result, a sale, right? So not many people, though, work in a performance-based job where their incomes attach to their performance. Most people get paid just to show up, and they get paid for their punching the clock, right? And so those people who get paid to punch the clock will eventually probably have some form of universal basic income or not end up living the life that they're really capable of. And it's not their fault.

It's the government is printing more money than they ever have in any generation before us. And so that's why like my grandparents owned multiple houses and a motorhome and a boat. And it was like, that's what everybody did back then, right? You had a house and a motorhome and a boat way back then, right? And then my parents, like, easily owned a house. And baby boomers, right?

Baby boomers have like $75 trillion in assets. It's crazy. But millennials and Gen Z and the ones younger than that, it's going to be tough. They have to compete against AI taking their jobs. And they have to compete against the fact that everything's going to cost so much that and companies can't afford to pay them at the rate of which the government's devaluing everything. So like if all of a sudden like my house doubles again in four years, again it doubles in four more years, dude, no one's going to be able to afford that because their income didn't double and then double.

It's like so those people's income. It's just like what's happening in Tokyo. what's happening in... If you look in history, it pretty much always happens. It's the reason why empire collapse is because at some point there's been enough war and enough, you know, pandemics and enough reasons that the government can justify printing trillions of dollars to save the country. And at this point, they either have to let it collapse, which is why the people, oh, it's going to collapse.

It's the worst recession ever. The banks have more outstanding debt than by 700% than they did in 08. Like, the stats are crazy for why we should have a recession. but it's called a reverse market crash. The government can't let it crash because if they do, it'll be so bad of a crash. It'll be like great depression bad. Like worse than 07, 08.

Like you're going to talking back to the 1920s bad. Like great depression bad like because we have so much more debt. Like there wasn't that much debt back then. Like if you think about how much debt we have, like it's just so much worse. And so they can't let it collapse. And so what happens? They just keep printing money.

It's almost just like, if they let it collapse, America's done. So they can't afford for that to happen. So regardless of who's in office, they don't want to be the president that went down with America. So they have to print more money. And again,

tying us back to businesses and why I sold my company was because I knew that I couldn't make enough money every year to keep growing to offset the rate of which the government was going to screw me. The government was going to make my house double in the next four or five more years,

just like it did the last four years. And I knew that I wasn't going to be able to earn enough money in my business to offset that delta of wow they're really screwing me they're making everything cost more and when I want to buy that 10 million dollar house it's going to be that much harder for me you know what I mean um so I sold my business and I put all the money I basically reached into the future and grabbed three years of net cash and I got all of it in one day and then I put all of it on bitcoin because I knew what's the asset that's going to go up at a disproportional asymmetrical asymmetrical rate that's going to go up so much higher than the money they're printing,

just like my house doubled in four years, but my Bitcoin went up 18 times in those four years. Man. So I knew that what I just did was I just basically went out and I grabbed like 10 years of cash. I got three years from my business, put it on on Bitcoin, and Bitcoin has now basically tripled since I bought it. So that's three times three. So I basically got reached into the future. I got nine years of net cash all in one year.

And Bitcoin's going to double. again and it's going to double again, it's going to double again, it's going to double again, and I've made the best trade slash investment slash bet of my life. Selling my company at the perfect time in 2012, going all in on Bitcoin in 2012. 24, and see you later. Bitcoin is just going to go all the way up. It's going to have volatility in between, but if I hold it for 10 years, you'll see me, and Bitcoin will be at $1 million, $2 million, and you'll be like, you're still holding

and I'll be like, yes. So I want to talk about, you know, your entry into entrepreneurship and how it all kind of started with becoming one of the world's best paintballers. So how was that journey going from one of the world's best paintballers to becoming like one of the top entrepreneurs? I'll give you the fast because now I'm now I feel old because it's so long ago. But I'll fly through the bullet points for it and you can choose to dive into whatever chapter you want.

So didn't like school, didn't resonate with me, didn't like the stuff I was being taught, started to resent education because if someone's just trying to feed you a bunch of BS and you're like, dude, this is not, I don't really give a shit about, are we able to cause on here? I don't really give a shit about any of this information you're teaching me. And I started to get smart enough where I would ask, what am I ever going to use this for? Right? Like, when am I ever going to use? Why am I having to give up so many years of my life to learn this information?

And the teachers didn't give me good enough reason. Didn't, like if somebody, it's almost like a business. Like if somebody's like, well, why do I need to do date enrichment? I'm like, dude, let me tell you. And then they're like, whoa, that was a really good reason. But if I tell you, I'm giving my time and my money to come to this school to get an education. and you can't tell me why a good enough reason why I'm even going to need this education, I'm leaving.

This is a business. I'm paying you for a service. And if you can't tell me why I need it, I'm leaving. I'm going somewhere else. And so I started to self-educate myself with people like Tony Robbins and John Asteroff and old school, Brian Tracy and Jim Rohn and all the personal development and then marketing and sales and came to realize self-education was going to be my route, not formal, traditional education that most people go through, get a degree, go beg somebody to hire you.

get a job that has a fixed income that's now lower than the rate of inflation and you're just slowly going poor. So I realized self-education was my route. I got super invested into sales and marketing because I was like, I want to get rich. Everybody thinks I'm the stupid kid who doesn't do well in school. So I want to prove them wrong, which is the pain pushes, right? Pain pushed me. Like Michael Jordan was the last guy picked on the team and he was like, no, I'm going to be the best. And so everyone's like, you're stupid, bro. You don't do well in school. And I was like, dude, I'm not stupid. I just think this information we're learning is pointless

and I don't need to waste my time on it. What's the point of getting an A? And guess what? I mean, literally my entire class doesn't make as much as I do. You know what I mean? It's like take all the kids that were in my class. None of them all combined together, even if there's one superstar, guaranteed.

They don't make what I do. All of them combine. And I don't say that in a bragging way. It's just the facts because I'm still friends with a lot of my friends from college who went to the fancy schools. And some of them actually are employees of my company. Like, it's just funny how it's, shifts, right? It's like formal education gets you a job. Self education can give you the life that

you want, whatever that looks like for you. Because you choose. School, you don't choose. They hand you a textbook. I was like, no, I want to choose what I'm going to learn based on what outcomes I want. And so for me, I would ditch school and I would go listen to audio books and read books from Jay Abraham and Tony Robbins. And I mean, I, and if you've, I don't know that we haven't done a Zoom yet, but at my house, my home office, I have a big bookshelf behind me of like a thousand books and I've read most of them. That was when I was like full tilt, like college to, you know, before kids, just reading like, my goal was to try to be like, Ty Lopez, a book a week.

You know, and it was like, but I would just go through so many books, just like obsessed. Because I saw the reflection, better education would give me knowledge to take action that would make me more money. And as soon as I attached more money, which meant choices, freedom, better life, everything, to what I learned. I was like, oh my God, inside these pages is money. Inside these pages is gold.

I have to find it. And I'd look at the books as like a game because I like games. And I would open the book and I'd be like, I got to find the next gold thing that's going to give me that. And then more books you read,

the better you get at connecting dots. You know, like we're talking and it's like, dude, you see the connections between this and this and this. And you need a lot of information to be able to connect the dots. Just like if you went and like talk

to like some random person on the street who works at Chipotle, they probably wouldn't be able to connect a lot of dots. regarding like, you know, government's going to print enough money. It's caused inflation. It's going to make things go up.

I've got to find the right assets. They're not thinking about connecting. They just go, dude, things cost more. And it's like, dude, you didn't connect the dots? Like, you see what I'm saying? Lack of education. And so what I realized was like the more education I can get, the more I could connect dots.

And so then I started to become obsessed with like, what is the education that I need to connect the right dots so that I can get filthy rich in the best way possible. So I can go out and, focus on things in a non-transactionally. I don't think people, I don't think God put us on this planet to be slaves to working for money. That's just my belief. You're absolutely right. Right. No, he did not. I mean, he put us on this earth to prosper. He put us on this earth to serve. Right. And so I want to and I am now. So, but I want to really get to that place where it's like, dude, I don't even

ever even think about a transaction. Like, how are we going to do business or make money? Instead, I'm just always coming from a place of like, how can I help you? How can I help people? How can I help people, right? Like just shift full philanthropy mode. And I have like my own dollar amount in my head like, when I get to this dollar amount, then I can just shift to 100% that. But I'm slowly doing it and slowly doing it and slowly doing it because I see that as the vision. I want to be like full philanthropy, contribution, education. Like Michael Saylor gives all his education made for free like that. Like I want to go out and solve like global problems and like get behind things like that and not be like, well, but I got to make rent. But I got to and I'm already past that. But you get my point.

Like it's hard to like, what's the number? mine's a couple hundred million because I just believe like at a couple hundred million dollars you can you're done you know you philanthropy goals like and you also like you also sort of and maybe it's a limiting belief but you also sort of need a certain net worth to get in the door with people yeah like Elon Musk's probably not going to like you know be like hey let's go conquer things together and solve these big issues together you don't have any money so you can be an employee or it's like hey I'm going to put a hundred million of this project with you let's get it done and it's like oh you okay okay you can come to the table now and so I also believe sometimes you need to have like the connections and the money and you can't to be able to make the big impacts without just being like, dude, you're just an employee at the charity. No, I fund the charity and that's what makes it go.

And so for me, I just feel like everybody should strive to figure out what that vision looks like for them. And for me, my success now,

after I have my data enrichment company, I think that's going to be it for me. I think at that point, with Bitcoin and the exit, I'll be able to just focus on philanthropy.

So that's awesome. So that's the goal. Completely full-on exit and then just do God's work. Love that. That's perfect summary. Huh? Yeah. That's perfect summary. I mean, and you know what? Because that is at the forefront of your goal.

Yeah. Like, it's going to happen. Yeah, yeah. And the paintball thing was just such a blip in my past, but like it taught me what does it take to be the best? And that mindset of get the best coaches, get the best mentors in paintball, right? Everything. But get the best because people are, how'd you become the best? It's like, dude, how do you become the best than anything? Get the best mentors. Get the best coaches. learn from the people who've already achieved what you want. You're not guessing, how do I get there?

Who already got there. So I would just get the best people who already achieved what I wanted in paintball, like the best guys, and then I'd have them as my mentors and my coaches. And it didn't just start there. I had to work my way up, right? I did it for over a decade. And that's usually, I think what most people do is they underestimate what they can do

in a decade and they overestimate what they can do in a year. And so in one year, they're like, I'm going to be the best. And then they're not. Like I thought my first year when I started my company, I was going to make a million dollars. it took me five years and then it was like you know fast but it was like first five five years before I made a million but I for sure was like 100% guaranteed till my grave I'm gonna make a million dollars first

year didn't took five years before I made a million dollars in a single year um and so yeah it's the same same formula paintball sports business get the best mentors get the best coaches and find people who've already done the thing that you want to do and I think when you ask most people they don't have they don't have a clear vision on what they want to achieve in their life and they don't have a and because they don't have that they don't have a navigation they don't have orientation they don't they don't know where they're going so they don't have a coach to get them there now you're not you know you're still in a very volatile business you start off in a really i mean personal brand development um and you exited now first off i can imagine

what people thought of your business when you said i'm going to just build the brand business Like what can you think of a Especially back then over 10 years ago it was like No one even I mean having an Being an influencer and having a personal brand It meant that you were like You were broke like 10 years ago If you're like I'm an influencer

You know there was no like Kardashians or the Paul brothers There wasn't like Mr. Beast right like 10 years ago He made his first video like that's the point And he was broke and now he's like the man And so it's just like That's the example 10 years ago I was like I'm going to do personal brand

And it was definitely like, early, yeah, you're crazy. But you know what? That just speaks to early adoption. Yeah, that could be a common theme. Yeah, early adoption. Now, and this is what your mantra is right now here. It's like being an early adopter of Bitcoin, it's not too late. Being an early adopter of date enrichment.

Again, not too late, very, very early. We were talking about this. Data enrichment is like a buzzword now. Right. It's at that level where it's like, hey, what do you do? I do data enrichment. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's, it's trending, right? But can you think of like a pivotal moment or like some of the more of the adversity you face when you started your company, the first company? Oh, man, I told you. It took five years before I made my first million dollars. And some people might be like, you know, man, like whatever. Like I would, you know, I've been doing my thing for 10 years and haven't made a million dollars. But that's a whole rabbit hole we can get into, right? Like you probably don't have a mentor who's already done tens of millions of dollars. guiding you or you're not reading enough books, you're not reading enough education.

There's a gap, right? Yeah. Or you're just totally in the wrong industry. You're selling the wrong thing. You need to be selling the hot thing that everybody wants right now. You know what I mean? Like you're in the desert and you're selling bread. Everybody wants water, bro.

You know what I mean? Like I don't care. It's like no one wants a dry mouth like a spoonful of cinnamon in the desert. Like you know, you're like, I want water. And so some businesses like, because I did consulting for like 10 years, they're just selling the wrong thing. Like you're just never going to be successful trying to push that up the hill. So you just need to be successful.

pivot and I think that's a big lesson for a lot of people is like getting into the right space but dude I mean the failures and lessons from like my first couple years like I pivoted the first three years I was trying to do like personal development I was trying to like teach Tony Robbins stuff you know I was really trying to like get people actually it was more like two years I was really trying to teach people because I I was studying so much Tony Robbins that I was like I'm very much as you can tell from my Bitcoin talk in the beginning when I become obsessed with something It just like consumes me. And I think a lot of successful people have that attribute about them is like,

like Grant Cardone wrote the book, like be obsessed or be average, right? Like average people usually don't have obsessions, you know? And I think people who are great, the best at what they do are usually obsessed. And sometimes for better or worse, that can trickle down and affect other areas of their life. Right. It's like, I'm so good at this. I'm the best and I'm so successful. I'm the number one person, but it's affecting other areas of my life because I'm so obsessed

with this. I'm not making time for that, you know? And it does impact a lot of entrepreneurs, though. A lot. It's a very common theme. Yeah. And their relationships with their spouse is. Of course.

Of course. These are the things I'm talking about, right? Relationships, health, et cetera. Comes with the switch costs, right? It doesn't have to, but oftentimes you become so obsessed, so focused on this thing, myopically. you're like, that's it. Everything else can wait. And then you think, oh, if I just am so good at this,

then all the other things will take care of itself, and oftentimes it doesn't. But it's not that being obsessed is a good thing or a bad thing. It's just everything just is. But when I become obsessed with something like Bitcoin, it just consumes me. And I can't not talk about it. And for a very long period of my life,

that was consuming Tony Robbins and trying to become the best version of myself. And I would just vomit on people like, dude, Tony Robbins, Tony Robbins, you got to study this stuff. It's the best. prove you and I found out people don't really want that. They don't really want to improve themselves.

They don't like looking in the mirror and being like, I could be better. You know, they don't want to actually improve themselves. Like if you tell a fat person they're fat, they usually get offended rather than they being like, oh, thanks for holding me accountable. You know, though, you know what I mean? When you meet people who study Tony Robbins or, and I don't know if you met John Asteroff. Of course, John officiated my wedding. Oh, yeah.

I mean, these people are just obsessed with just self-improvement. He's still obsessed every single day. Of course. With self-improvement. It was amazing to have him be a mentor. from books to attending his seminars to having him officiate my wedding. That's crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, when he came in here, and his morning routine is insane, by the way, he does have one of those stories. Yeah, I know. I know.

Yeah, but his kids have also moved out of the house. Yeah. He has like a really intense morning routine that's very hard to emulate. But he is obsessed with self-improvement. And when I meet and now that we're in these, you know, entrepreneur circles that were part of,

a mastermind circle, it's like these high performers are absolutely obsessed all day. with self-improvement. Like, that's all they think about. Morning tonight, dust till dawn. And when you talk to someone like you or, you know, like, you, you, you, you, you're, you, you're, you feel it. And you feel like, you feel the sense of inspiration internally. Like, dude, I got to get better.

I'm lagging. Yeah. You know, like, just me talking with you. I'm, I got nine years on you, 43. And like, you know, you're, you're an extreme high performer. And it's inspiring. Thanks, brother. And it's inspiring to me to continue to meet people at that level.

it's what I will say like that's been a shift for me since last year was um so I sold my company in July and it was like one of the highest highs because I was like it's happening God's giving me all the things that I've prayed for I was like I need this extra liquidity now to buy into Bitcoin before the cycle because Bitcoin has cycles and it's all happening I was like the prophecy I was like it's all happening the way it's supposed to I get all this money I can put it on Bitcoin and Bitcoin's going to go up forever and I got in at 25 and here we're at 74. It's going to just and I was like, it's all happening. So one of the highest highs July, 2003.

Then in August, 2003, my mom passed from battling cancer for three years. And that just fucked me up. So I went from the highest high to the lowest low. And I stayed there for like six months. And it was tough because I had to also be a husband and a father. And you still had starting your next venture. Exactly. So I kind of went into like a six month like retirement depression.

My mom was like the glue, like the foundation, like everything. It wasn't just like, oh, I lost like a family member because I know not everybody's close with their parents. But that one was just like the queen on the chess board is the most valuable player on the chess board. And my mom was that. And so that was tough. I want to talk too much about because I don't want to cry on the podcast. But that was tough. And so for me, that was a huge life moment.

And it really gave me perspective. that all of this self-improvement stuff and making all this money is really actually lower on the totem pole than I've placed it. And what matters most is your loved ones and your health and great experiences and great memories. And that doesn't cost a lot of money. And that doesn't always require you to be the best, just be you. and so I live in this weird paradox now where the I like I don't remember who taught me this but it was like having multiple different like characters that you can shift back and forth between like when I'm with my grandma I'm different than when I'm with the boys then when I'm

with my daughter then when I'm with my wife than when I'm doing a podcast you know you can shift like it's okay to shift into different modes and there's like the playful father mode and then there's like the loving husband mode and the best friend mode and the teacher mode and the spiritual mode and that spiritual mode for me got rocked in a way that it never had before. And I went through all the different, you know, grieving and depression and, you know, all that. But it taught me something that was so important and it was just like we're always, especially on podcasts like this, talking about make the money and be the best version of yourself. but like when that spiritual moment happens in your life you're not going to give a shit about the money or the self-improvement

and i took six months off of focusing on making money focusing on self-improvement and it just really anchored that in for me in 2018 i got sepsis and almost died and that was a much smaller version of what i'm referring to where i was like hospitalized and like that i could couldn't work, I couldn't be around people because I couldn't risk getting any sicker. And so that was like a moment for me that was like, whoa. But the mom one was just like, because I got healthy. So I didn't actually lose anything, right? I got sick and I came right back.

It was fine. No problem. But the mom one, I lost something that I'll never get back. And so that was like a much, it taught me like, sepsis taught me some things, almost dying. But like, my losing my mom was like, phew. at a young age too at a young age yeah and with my daughter being so young and like

see and I want to go there listen a lot of people this is a physical physiological journey on this show because I asked some pretty deep questions yeah but I wanted to bring that up because I feel like when people listen it's we spend a lot of time talking about money and the cool stuff but I'm telling you right now like when you really get down to like the lowest level of what matters in your life

like your deathbed right like that's it dude just being with your loved ones being healthy and creating great memories and great experiences that you can cherish and hold on to forever. And so for anybody watching, just know that if you have the people that you love, if you're all healthy, and you have the ability to make great memories that don't cost anything, like, you're already winning. So I just want like a positive message for everybody right now. It's like, you're already winning if you have that. The making the money and the being your... That's just the fun stuff. That's just the fun stuff. Like God lets us do those other things, but like cherish the health and the memories and

the people you have now. And don't get so wrapped up in the money and the this and the that. And And so it was tough because like the timing of selling my company, I was so wrapped up and selling it. That then when my mom passed, it was just like, I wish I wasn't so wrapped up in selling my company. And I could have been, you know. So just to put that out there for people, it's like you're already winning if you have those things. Love it. Now, this is something I ask parents, because you're a young parent. You only got one kid, but this is something I'm obsessed with.

Matter of fact, you probably see my kids here soon. but I'm obsessed with teaching my kids grit because our kids, your kids are in this bucket too. You're going to probably have more. They don't come from the adversity that we come from. They're not cut from the same plot. So how are you instilling the same level of grit and tenacity and fortitude that you have? Are you going to instill that in your daughter? It's a good question, and I talk about it with my wife every night.

and I want more education around that because I don't think I have all the answers because I'm at the show I asked that question every entrepreneur and see I'm at a point now where I don't pretend to have answers to things I used to try to be like

I have to have the answer to everything or people will think I'm stupid I don't give a fuck anymore if I have an answer I'll share it to the best of my ability but I don't have the answer for that because I only have a three-year-old and I haven't done it before.

Yeah. And she's my little princess and I want to spoil her in a way that allows her to know, like, you have options and choices and you can create that for yourself too when you become an adult. But like finding that balance between like spoiling and, giving her opportunities that other people aren't always blessed to have that can allow her to cultivate herself into the best, most confident, healthy, happy version of herself. I don't care if she goes on to become financially successful. I just want her to be happy and to be around people that love her and that she loves and to do something that gives her passion and joy and fulfillment.

And I think if I had a son, I might feel different. I think if I had a son, I might be like, you need to be the provider and you need to, at least is what I tell myself. If I had a son, I'd be like, you need to go out and you need to be the husband and the rock and the protection of your future family. You know what I mean? At least that's what I think. maybe that's old school mentality. It's still an applicable mentality. And maybe some listeners aren't with that.

Because I feel like with the son, I'd be like, yo, you got to take care of yourself. I'm going to be there for you and I'm going to be a steward and support. But like with my daughter, I'm like, daddy's always got you. Yeah. Let me just give you some Bitcoin. You'll always be taking care of. Yeah. That's like Princess.

Daddy's got you and Mommy's got you. Like here's some Bitcoin. Like you're set for life. You know what I mean? Because in 20 years when she's an adult. She'll be 23 in 20 years. Bitcoin will be like at price points that sound ridiculous to even say. Yeah.

And so they'll be listening to the show like, I should have bought, you know what I mean? Yeah. You're saying 75,000. You can always do that. Any Bitcoin video, you go back five, 10 years. And it's been around for 16 on October 31st. So in like two days, it's Bitcoin's 16th anniversary of the white paper.

So if you go back four years, five years, you always wish you bought then. So when people watch this in four or five years for the next cycle where Bitcoin inevitably rips, you'll be like, I should have bought.

That's just the loop. And that's the loop that when you recognize it, it's like you should have always bought the real estate five years ago because what does it do? It just goes up. And Bitcoin goes up more

at a faster accelerated rate than that real estate. And so once you've recognized the pattern, you're like, oh, I should just buy it now. Like that now is the best entry point. You're right. You're right.

Right. Just like still real estate, that same logical plans of real estate right now. And you spend all this time dicking around trying to figure out all these other things. When is the best entry point? And what is that right now? It was now. Yeah. A couple last questions I have for you. This one's a three-prong question.

Okay. What is a personal goal that you have for yourself? Okay. And a business goal, well, a personal goal you have for yourself, a family goal that you have for the family. Okay. And then a business goal is to do, and it can just, it's not like specific to something. family goal short term would be to do like I have this vision in my head um to do this to the most epic family vacation you know like I don't know if it's going to be on the beach or if it's

going to be like renting out like the biggest cabin ever and just having like the whole family stayed like a 12 bedroom you know just like so awesome and like everybody can be there and just like snowboard ski fireplace hot chocolate whatever it's like the whole family this is cozy cabin lake vibe, whatever, I don't know, right? It's like, I have this vision, like I want to do the, and just cover everything. Fly everybody out, pay for everything. Just like, no stress, just the best, like $100,000, $200,000 vacation. Just like, bam.

Just like this epic family vacation. We all have kids now and, like, it's such a different dynamic because, like, you go from, like, I'm the kid to, like, now I have kids and they have kids and they have kids. And my brother has two kids. And it's, like, such a fun dynamic. So I want to do the most epic family vacation in the next year or two as the kids are just a little bit older can really enjoy it, you know, because my daughter's turning three next month. It's like, eh, it's just there.

We're like four and five. That's kind of where you can like, they're a little bit more of a kid. Personal. It's probably fitness related. I'm on my fitness game right now trying to just track my macros, eat clean, 95% clean. Still let myself enjoy myself, right? Because nothing worse than being like that nut job was just like so healthy and then gets hit by a car. And you're like, you should have that thing that you really wanted to eat.

Yeah. Should I have the cake. You're dead. Life is short. Eat the cake. Exactly. Yeah. So it's like finding that balance between like, all right, I'm going to be like the

healthiest and best I've ever been, but also like leaving that little room in there. So it's probably fitness related. I want to drop a little bit lower in body fat and put on a little bit more muscle and keep eating healthy and feeling better and like just optimizing myself and looking into like stem cells and like crazy things to like biohack my body to like the best levels and reverse my age and all that. Yeah. I'm on a biohack.

vacuum routine. Yes. So that, like just, yeah, share whatever you got, bro. I'm on it.

Same with me. Share whatever you got. Swap notes. Yeah. So I would say that's for health. It's personal family. It's an epic experience like I was talking about. And then for business,

right, that was the other one. It's going to be building this data enrichment business up and then exiting it. And this time exiting a company that gets a larger multiple because the company that I had sold was an educational, education company and those only get like three to four X EBITA. And so, you know, getting into more SaaS and AI related things around data enrichment, you can get a much, much larger multiple. 20x multiple.

Yeah. So three, I got a 3.3x on my company. So to get a 20x is like, poof. Yeah. Same effort and energy. And that's my point. You build a, a restaurant. It's going to get like maybe a 1x multiple.

Yeah. Or you build a SaaS company. It's going to get like a 12 to 20x multiple. And where are you going to spend your effort and energy? And the restaurant business at some point is going to get price gouged and destroyed. Labor laws. All the BS. Strikes.

Cost of stuff went up. Exactly. And then what do you do? You shut it down. Nobody wants to buy it and it's gone. Sass? Well, pump that baby up for three to five years. have a big exit, take that cash, put it on on Bitcoin,

or put it on something else that's going to go up, you know? Or Ethereum. Asymmetrical. So, all right. Those would be my things, bro. Love it. Love it. Last question.

I end the show with this question every single time. I'm ready. When you're in front of the pearly gates. Okay. What do you think God's going to tell you? Obviously, I would have to think about it from age 34, which would be different if I'm able to, God willing, live out what I believe could be a much longer life.

That answer might be different if I'm able to live that far. But right now, see, that would be tough because my answer, I feel like there's so much I'm missing. So God could be like, you miss down on so much. But I try not to overthink it.

I think God would say I'm proud of you. Yeah. Because I think deep down inside, I know that when I do feel led by God to do something, I'll do anything. Like, if I do feel like God's telling me to do something, it's like nothing's going to stop on to do that.

Which means I'm one of his stewards. Yeah, and the Holy Spirit drives your decisions. Exactly. So he knows that although I have my own free will to make my own choices, that I'm free to what he wants me to do. And therefore, I'm God-led, and if he has something for me to do as a mission, which is why my ultimate goal in life is to get to a point where I believe, and I know this is a limiting belief, and we can go down the whole thing,

oh, you should be doing it now. He's like, okay, but in my head I have the story that when I get to a certain financial level, everything in my life can shift to philanthropy. I've always been a very giving contribution person focused on helping others and just always feel so good to give. Especially once you filled your cup up so much. I know that's one of my favorite quotes

I'm butchering it completely, but there's like a billionaire and he's like, you know, so rich, but he just never has enough. And then there's his other guy, and he says to the billionaire, you know, the billionaire says to him like, you know, what's your goals and blah-da-da-da-da, and what about this?

and the guy says, well, I'll have something that you'll never have, Mr. billionaire. I have enough. And I totally butchered it, but I think I landed the point that some people, no matter how successful they are, they just never have enough. And I feel like I definitely already have enough. So I'm going to force myself to be even more philanthropic in giving more in the ways that I know that I'm able to. But yeah, I feel like, you know, just philanthropy is my ultimate goal.

that God would tell me he's proud of me because he knows that my heart's in the right place. And ultimately that's what I want. I just want to be able to help people and give back to people, which is why I love doing education. I took a while off of doing podcasts. Probably have a little bit better example of why I haven't done podcasts in a while. But I'm back. I'm going on more podcasts. Now I've done over 2,000 interviews, but 1,000 podcasts.

So I've done 3,000 total on both sides of the table as a host and as a guest. So I'll be doing more podcasts because I love giving back and contributing. And so hopefully something I said landed with somebody today that resonates. And I was trying to remind myself, as long as one person's life, it's good, I feel good. And then like they never do anything. But if one person heard something from my episode and they go out and do something and then they hit me up on Instagram and they say, yo, that was incredible. Your story really touched me. And like, here's what I'm going to do.

Or here's how I took action. Or they come back to me in 10 years and say, dude, I bought Bitcoin from your freaking thing. And it went up so much. You know, change your life. Change my life. And so, yes, just. Something. Yeah.

I always think like that, too. As long as I'm touching one person, I don't care if it gets 200,000 views, 500,000 views, as long as it hits somebody. And there was so many nuggets of good wisdom on this show. And that's why I like to interview the most wise people, people I like to learn from. And you did get that one person because that one person is me. So we won. Right now, you know, I'm taking action.

Let's go. And I already, you saw how fast I took action from our lunch. And we're taking more action after this lunch. after this podcast. So, you know, this tries to be the focus of the show is, you know, to serve. That's the whole point of what I do as a profession. This is the point of the show. And then there, my spiritual mentor told me, as long as we do God's work,

God always does our work. So that's how I'm led. Amen. All right, bro. It was a pleasure. Mark Lack. Thank you everyone for tuning in. See you all next week.