Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Turn Trash Water into Drinking Water ft. Kurt Avery | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

In this episode, Joe sits down with Kurt Avery, founder of Sawyer Products — the company saving millions of lives through clean water and humanitarian innovation.What started with a simple first aid product has grown into a global mission: providing life-changing water filtration to over 80 countries and partnering with 140 nonprofits around the world. From military-grade repellents to filters that cost just 30 cents per person to produce, Sawyer is reshaping what it means to build a business that gives more than it takes.Kurt shares the faith, strategy, and wisdom behind giving away over 90% of his profits, why he believes God’s hand is in every drop, and how true success is measured by the lives you change — not the numbers you keep.Top producers at E Mortgage Capital are earning more per deal—with faster closings, better tech, and no junk fees.👉 Learn more: https://join.emortgagecapital.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

And he says after a week, you don't name your kids until the three years old. Why is that? Well, if they make it to three, we know they're going to live. If they don't, you know, they lose a third of their kids before age three. Goes back with the filters, puts them throughout the village, goes back to next year. They name that birth because they haven't lost a baby since. The filter showed up. I mean, can you imagine the heartbreak of losing a third of your kids to bad water?

Welcome to another episode of coffees. All right. So we'll dive right into it. So, Kurt, tell me really quick. Tell me the vision behind Sawyer from the beginning. What is it that really inspired you to start Sawyer? Actually, I decided I didn't like the corporate world. I did some pretty good stuff.

And I'm standing outside the president's office with one of the companies, the last one they worked for. Watch them take credit for absolutely everything. Didn't give me a single bone for all I did. And I said, I see how this game works. It's time to go out of my own. So I did. And I had some interesting products I got.

So we've been in the outdoor industry. And every time we introduce a product, it absolutely changes the way people interface with the outdoors. I mean, whether it was some, we started with a bee sting snake by kid. We went to first aid. We went to sunscreens, repellents, and water filters. And every time we introduced something, it was a technological change from what people were using. So we spent a lot of time in the stores listening. What do you need?

you need. What are your problems? And I use the analogy like Henry Ford said, don't ask them what they want. They'll say they want a faster horse. You know, you got to go back past that and say, what problem are you having and how can we solve it in an innovative way? So that's how we built the company. I basically said, I got to go out on my own. So this isn't working in the corporate world. Did you work at a company that did something similar in the outdoor space? No, no, totally in the consumer. But you know the brand. They're big ones, but no, nothing to do with outdoors. Okay.

Now, before Sawyer became a global leader in clean water, what was the original spark that led you to launch it? Was it just a journey into entrepreneurship? Like, what was the problem you were seeking to solve? Well, we actually started with the B-Stink Snake Bike Kit, which is still in Walmart today, 41 years later. So it was a solution. People were using little suction things and it wasn't working. So we came out with a product that really did take out venom, really did solve the bee stings. But we moved on.

I mean, it's still out there. We're still selling it 41 years later. But it was a total change of the way people dealt with in Venomations. And from there, we went into first aid. Again, we met with the wilderness medicine people. And the whole thing was, we don't want a box of band-aids. What do you do if you're three hours or three days away from medical help? And so we invented kits that you could actually use.

And there's still be done today. I mean, we went with the EMTs and the rescue people and just totally reinvented. You don't need a box full of band-aids. You really need something you could do with it. Triage manual, stuff like that. And we're not doing it anymore, but we really established it. And other brands have picked up the ball and totally changed the way people do outdoor first aid. From there, we got into the insect repellent business.

And we've always been technically advanced. And now we're the ones that basically introduced Picardin, which is the replacement for Diet. It's very effective. It's non-plasticizer, so you won't melt your watch and you wreck your car. It's very safe to use. It came from the pepper plant. And then we also introduced, we invented and introduced phermethrin, which you go on your clothes. If you put it on your clothes, your backpack, your tent, the mosquitoes stay away, and all

ticks will die. If we take on it, it's dead. And so military uses on every single uniform. And we're the ones that do that resupplying. And then we got into water filters because people were taking these clunky, heavy ceramic or paper matrix fibers. And they were $90 a piece. And they, they were very heavy. And we came across the technology of hollow fiber membrane. Halifiber membranes are used for kidney dialysis. So if you can clean blood, you can certainly clean water. So we introduced the market and the stores were resistant at first. You know, we sell a $90

filter and we're going to make $45 on it. So, well, you're going to sell this one for 1995 and you'll make $10 on it. And said, no, man, can't do it. But you're going to sell a million of them. You're going to sell so many more. And you don't have a choice because it is the new technology. So lo and behold, you know,

that's 70,000 unit market. It's now many million a year because it is the right way to clean water. So then somewhere along the way, we said, now we have the two biggest things to solve the two biggest ways that people die, bad water or mosquito bites. How do we not make this available to the world? So that's how we got on on the mission to take all this stuff to the world. It's life-changing. Our filters filter better than anybody else's. Now, these are point of use. So I don't know

your live video, but these are what they look like. They're small in a Coke can, and they never wear out. Ours are so strong, you just keep cleaning them. Your filters never wear out? Never wears out. Wow. We got some out there that are in their 16th year now, serving families every day. And we're down to the point where you can't get sick.

We take everything out. So it doesn't matter if the cows are swimming and pooping in your water, we'll make it safe to drink. So now we go into villages. and, you know, within weeks, all the sickness is gone. You know, the diarrhea is gone. You know, typhoid, cholera, sucks cholera, and hours. So, you know, when you ever hear, there's a cholera outbreak,

and then you don't hear it, that just means our filters showed up. Every time there's an earthquake, hurricane, whatever, we're there. We're the first things in. Usually we're in there before the hurricane. So, like Jamaica, there's tons of them in Jamaica. In the United States, when we held Helene, we sent 100,000. thousand filters up there. We had people hiking them up to places where cars and helicopters couldn't get to. So we're always the first one. Anytime you hear, we're in Philippines right now

with a cyclone that just hit. So we are it. And, you know, we're down now when, we call it transformational when you change a person's life. We got it down now where we can for one time investment of 30 cents give somebody 10 years of clean water. Wow. Yeah. And if it's rural, it might be a buck and a half to two bucks to give somebody a family lifetime clean water. So they're not very expensive. We are so profitable with our domestic business that we can give away a lot of it. And the unique part is, I use the analogy, if we make cupcakes, we'd have to sell the cupcakes, make the profit, pay the taxes, and then have something to give away. But because we make the very thing that people want, and I own 100% of the company, I don't have to make a profit. Nobody tells me I have to make a profit. I don't have any other shareholders to deal with. I'm not corporate, but we're a small company, but so we can give these things away.

So that's why we do it. I mean, how do you not when you save lives like that? That's really the purpose of life is just to be of service to others, and you're really embodying that with your mission-driven organization. That's why, you know, I wanted to meet you and talk to you. I'm personally inspired by what you're doing. I mean, water is life. It is.

That was our first T-shirt, water is life. I met with some folks from Rora Water, and I had them on my show. And they're just a home-based water filtration system, but they have some of the cleanest water, if not the cleanest water I've ever had from a home filter. Right. Well, we're not in the domestic market because we're not changing taste. You know, your water's kind of safe. We're out for the hikers. You know, you go to the Appalachian Trail.

It's all about Sawyer. I mean, everybody's taking that with them. But overseas, put yourself in their place. The typical woman might spend three hours a day preparing water for them to drink. You know, they're boiling water, they're using wood, they're using fossil. We eliminate. We are the greenest thing out there because they're not having to prepare water. They're hydrated.

The data is in medical journals and posted on it. website. We save them 10 to 15, 20 percent of their annual income by not having to buy or clean water. They're not sick. The kids can go to school. The parents can go to work. Their brains are functioning now. Women can start businesses because they have water clean enough to cook with, which you could never do with the stuff they did. So it's a huge impact and it really empowers the women because they're usually the ones in charge of getting the water for the family. So we've taken three hours down to 15 minutes. Now, you started, story started initially, was it by providing sunblock to our troops?

No, well, we did. We started with the extractor, but we did all the sunblocks that went to Gulf War I. So there's like six million bottles of sunscreen. That was a crazy story because at the time we were only, filling 2,000 bottles a week by hand. Contract comes through for 230,000 a week. So, of course, I said, yeah, we'll do that. I don't know where the box is, okay?

So you got to excuse me. And we did it. We got everything together. We did it. And, you know, it came across an amazing formula because there's no timeouts in war. So soldiers didn't have to reapply with our formula. It would last for a couple of days as they weren't taking showers, which you are in the middle of war.

So we brought that to domestic market. And we have a very good cult following because it's very technically advanced. But I don't bring it to the mass market. I'm not going to compete with the big names. You know, forget that. Repalants, we will because we're so technically advanced. But sunscreen, it's a crazy market. So we just have our own little following.

But, yeah, we did this develop for. How did you evolve from sunscreen to life-changing water solutions? Yeah. Well, we were selling the Arias of the world, the bass pros, the cabellas, you know, all the outdoor camping places. So you would sit with them and say, what are your problems? You know, we were introducing the insect repellals because we were kind of advanced. And just listen to them. What are your problems?

What do you need to solve? And that's when the water came up. That was a real problem for them carrying these clunky things. So we spent some time finding the right solutions. There's a lot of ways to do water, there's tablets and whatnot. But we came across the kidney dialysis technology. That's it. That's really the way to go.

So we found our way to the advanced technology. Now, our holes are so small that nothing gets through it. And our fibers are so tough that you can back flush them at full force. Nobody has that. And in 22 years now, nobody's copied our technology. So we're still sitting out there. And when you have that, I mean, it's a lifetime filter. You know, you're not going to get sick.

And, you know, it goes on and on. Now, our latest one is we've adapted it so we can fit it on a faucet, on a tap. So now this little filter can get you two to 500 gallons per day every day for 10 years. Now, if you round that off the cost per gallon, that comes pretty much to zero. countries pick a country, Mexico, Honduras, you know, whatever, where they have a tap, the water is still not safe. It's what's called improved water. Yeah. So they still, but, you know, instead of boiling it or whatever, you just run it through our filter and it's good.

So, and so we're, we've got a new program going now where we're doing, we're going to do Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, and really eight of the Central South American countries. we go into the schools the teachers teach the kids how to use it they bring the parents in they teach them and then they take it home so instantly we can now do the world we used to just be rural

because we had a bucket system whatever but now with the tap filter we can be right in the cities their water's not safe you couldn't drink that but you can with ours so they would still have to boil it or clean it even if it came out of their tap but with us you don't

and then we set up water station So we go to the local community centers or churches, and they put these things on their faucet, and they're cranking out hundreds of gallons a day per filter. So now anybody in the neighborhood can come in and get their, you know, gallon, five gallons worth of water for free. So with that point, that's why it's less than 30 cents. I mean, that includes all the distribution and all those costs, but it's nothing. Basically nothing to give everybody clean water.

So we're going to do countries now. We do countries at a time. Sawyer by itself can do all of Honduras in two years. Nobody in Honduras has bad water. Everybody's got a clean water. But we obviously are out asking, you know, who wants to join us? I mean, for 30 cents a person, why wouldn't you? So we do have the Sawyer Foundation, which is a 501c3.

So anybody wants to donate to that. They get their tax deduction, and 100% of that goes overseas in projects. No overhead taken out of that. Sawyer covers the overhead. It's not much. So, yeah, we're just saying anybody wants it. And here we go. We got the filter.

We have 140 charities to work with. So the big ones, you know, World Vision, FEMA, Red Cross, Samaritan's Purse, you name it. We got down to the little ones. We got them all. Now you started the company, was it 30 years ago? Oh, I wish it was only 30. It was in 1984. So that'd be 41, 41 years.

Well, we saw the vision because we had the repellent. the clothing repellent. So, in fact, we're just launching that now. If JAMA ran an article two weeks ago, that if we use our clothing treatment on the baby wrap that the moms carry the baby in, we reduce malaria by 67%, 67%, 2 thirds. Wow.

So now for $1.30 a year, you can eliminate the kids getting malaria, save lives and all that kind of stuff. So we're doing that. That's the other half of it. So we had that. And we always wanted to do water. So we began the quest, maybe the year 2000, but it wasn't until 2005 that we got the technology that we have today.

So it's been about 20 years that we were into this kidney dialysis technology. And that really set it off because it's very inexpensive. Well, it's inexpensive to us because we do millions. But other people, you know, they do thousands, we do millions. so we can cover the cost. And, you know, in my book, which is to help entrepreneurs get better so they can join us in philanthropy, at the end of the day, you spend dollars not percent. So we don't worry about the margins.

How many dollars are at the end? We're telling us a very lucrative business. So we have a lot of money to give away. You know, this next 60 days, we're going to give away, I think, 140,000 filters, just overseas. You know, and everyone is going to do it anywhere. from 10 to 100 people. You've had this business 41 years. At what point did you start to go,

like how many years into it did it take to go all in on humanitarian work? Well, we didn't really have the resources to go all in. So the starting point for us was that earthquake in Haiti. So we had just gotten into the new system we have. And we sent, I don't know, 100,000 filters down there. Some of them were bought by Compassion International. Some were. What's interesting story there is at the end of it, it really put us on the map.

So the minister of health and the president, they came in. They had 20 companies that got in the water business down there. And he went around and heard every story and whatever. And then you heard our story. Then he asked the 20 people, personally, what do you use? Every one of them said they personally use Sawyer. no matter what they were selling for themselves they used Sawyer so that kind of put us on the map because that's when all the charities

who came there realized that this is the one so that would be 2010 so that's when we knew we had to get into it but we really didn't have the financial wherewithal to go all in like this until four or five six years ago we do three to five million people a year just us and and well with our charities We didn't have this kind of money until four or five years ago. So we've always been able to do it, but we couldn't donate.

People would buy it and take it for the last 20 years. But we built enough resources that we could jump in and donate a lot of it. What's the role of faith and how did really your faith shape your decisions with Sawyer? I've been a Christian from Neon to a grasshopper, so I was always, always in. But I did, to be honest with you, I don't believe that. that you have to take the faith of your parents just because you have the faith. They have that faith. So I did my searches.

I checked out the other religions, and none of them really made sense. None of them take credit for creation. Creation is a mind-boggling thing from micro to macro. So I've always had the deep faith, not just innocently, but after studying and everything. So, yeah, that was very much of it. And we used the saying there's no U-Halls in heaven. So why not? You know, maybe the last check bounce.

You know, give it away. You know, God has had his hand on this company so much. Think about it. Our filters are right up there with the invention of vaccines or antibiotics. I mean, you can go into any place and wipe out sickness in two weeks. What else can do that? The number one way people die is bad water. We had to give you a little story in Uganda.

A missionary goes in and he says after a week, you don't name your kids till the three years old. Why is that? Well, if they make it to three, we know they're going to live. If they don't, you know, they lose a third of their kids before age three. Goes back with the filters, puts them throughout the village, goes back the next year. They name that birth because they haven't lost a baby since.

The filters showed up. I mean, can you imagine the heartbreak of losing a third of your kids to bad water? So how do you not do that? So that inspires you, you know, and we have the means. So what else are going to do with it? You know, this shirt's 10 years old. I got new shoes last year. I mean, that's pretty good.

I mean, I don't need the money. I'm not going to take it with me. We live pretty humbly. I got a great wife. She's not demanding yachts and mansions with modest home. So why not? What is like to change a life? overseas and then do three or five million of them, how can you not do that? So that's a God thing.

He's entrusted us with really a huge solution to world health. It's unbelievable. And thank God, you know, he entrusted it with a faithful person, someone who wants to serve God who's on a mission to improve millions of people's lives, who wants to glorify God with everything that he does. And that's why everything that you do prospers. Right. Well, he probably wouldn't do it with somebody who didn't that, but I don't take credit for it because first of all, there's a gun element, but I also have an incredible company and staff. So you can't sit there and take credit for doing this. This is way over my head.

How are you able to give away 90% of your profits annually and still turn a profit? Well, actually, we give away a lot more than that, but you can't explain that to people. So that's why we just use that number. I own the company 100% sub-S. So at the end of the day, every dollar profit would come to me. Now, I have a belief that I would rather give the money away than have the federal government decide what to do with it. So I try not to pay taxes. So you can do it above the line before it even gets to profit.

So if we give, like we're giving away the 140,000 filters, that's a pure loss to the cost of good sold line. that that's 140,000 filters at 15 bucks a piece that'll never make it to the profit line okay so it doesn't get to the profit line and as does research we do a lot of research to verify all this stuff so you don't have to make i don't have to make a profit i don't answer to anybody but god so i don't but when it does come down we make a little bit of a profit because we have to keep the bank happy but then i can give it away because it's 100% my income so that's we fund the Sawyer Foundation. We take what does get down to the bottom line, pay a minimal amount of taxes, and then we give it away after that. So we can fund the foundation with that

stuff. So you don't have to. We live comfortably. I don't need the money. Now, what's the science behind your filtration system? And why is it such a game-changing solution in solving the global water crisis? Okay. I don't know if you're in liability, but this is the technology right here. And what these are are little hoses. They look like threads, but they're so small, there's a little hole in there. So you send the water in to this end. The water will get into the hoses, but nothing that makes you sick can get in there. The holes are so small than nothing, which is unique to us. Nobody else can make that claim. We're the only ones that have enough holes so small and not bigger holes. We test every filter.

three times. So we test it and we shoot through spears that are bigger than 0.1 microns. And if they get through, that thing's out of here. We throw it away. Because that's the key. At 0.1 micron, there's nothing that's going to make you sick, smaller than 0.1 except viruses, but viruses aren't really in the water. And then it comes out here. So we test every filter. Then when we put it into the product, we test it two more times to make sure the O rings are set and there's no air leaks. And, you know, that's half the cost of the filter is all the testing to make sure. But how do you go to a village and say, you know, 90% of you're going to be okay, the other 10, you're still going to get sick?

No, you got to go in there and say nobody gets sick. So, you know those hoses where you sprinkle your lawn and there's little holes in the hose where it squirts out? It's the opposite of that. We're going to put the water into the hose before it comes out the end. And that's how it works. But the real key, and it's all on the website. you can, you know, you go there and see the diagrams and all that kind of stuff.

But that's the key. The key is that the holes are so small that nothing can get through it. The second key is that our hoses and there's pictures of it are so much thicker than the other brands that you can in fact backflush it forever. There's no end to it. If you try to backflush the other filters with our pressure, you'd blow them apart. So that's what those two things is what make it. what it is incredible

and no I did not think of this stuff I can't spell science without spell check so no I had had people figured out for us can you share like a specific story that really moved you with what you're doing I'm sure there's thousands but just something that really like touched your heart

because you've changed millions of people but like what is something that really resonates with you right now a child that you help, a family that you helped, a village that you help. Well, you got to go back to about 2008 when we were installing these in villages, just getting started even before the earthquake. And somebody brought the filter to a village, and the grandma was there. And she just looked at us and said, if you were here two weeks ago, my grandkid would still be alive.

Oh. Okay, so how do you? I mean, that one just put the fire in our belly. Yeah, I can imagine. We got to do this as fast as we can. And from there, I'm sure, you know, you've been just, this mission has just exploded. It has. And like I said, all the charities have found this one to be the right filter.

And we have so many stories. There's a lot of them on the website. I mean, just the way it changes lives. I mean, we went into Kibera. It was a suburb of Nairobi and did 97,000. homes, there's 400,000 people in 76 toilets. They would have what they call flying toilets. That's when they would poop in a paper bag and throw it up on the roof. So, but after three years, it's nobody sick. They're consolidating the medical clinics because there's not enough customers

left. And the violence went away for six years ago. You couldn't walk down that street without the SEAL Team 6. Now you can walk down the street because there's not what's called water scare city and water security. Everybody's got water. So they're not fighting over it. They're not having, and there are eight major gangs and they're all peaceful now because we've changed the entire village.

No, it's a huge, huge thing to provide water. Now, you've already partnered with 140 nonprofits. You've partnered with 80 countries already. Right. Oh, we're in the tough ones too.

Now, what makes collaboration like this, when you're partnering with these large non-profits, these large organizations, nations, how does collaboration even work and actually get like a lasting impact? Because you're dealing with these big entities. We are. I mean, we have filters. We were in Gaza long before you ever heard about that being a problem. And we are in North Korea. We're in Iran. We're in Yemen. We're in every place that you can think they all need water. So they're not afraid to take our stuff in because it solves a problem. They don't have to solve. With our filters, you need

no infrastructure. You do not need to treat the water, pipe the water to the homes. It's whatever they drink now that we say. So now we're on a progress where we are, we've connected with the organization called OAS, Organization of American States. And that's the 37 countries in Central, South, in the Caribbean. So they know every ambassador both ways. So they know the ambassador. They know the ambassador from Honduras to the U.S. to Honduras, the governments are now saying, please come, please come. So when we say we're going into the schools, the governments bring them into the schools. The Army is helping us with distributions. They got it. They figured it out that. I mean, if you can take all of Honduras, imagine that in two years, nobody's sick again. That raises the

country's GDP by 10 to 15%. People are happy. So that's how the government's, we've, established enough data that they don't even ask us anymore. They don't even ask for proof. They know this is the one. So yes, governments jump in and say, yeah, Peru, same thing. They want us. They know we can solve a problem. They can't solve. How do you personally stay grounded when you're balancing philanthropy, innovation, all these different technologies, competitors trying to crack your business, just trying to scale your company, the issues you face, sometimes, you know, running up a profit margin when you're giving it all away. How are you balancing all this?

Well, first of all, I'm professionally trained to do it. It has to do with your character. I was raised on the farm, you know, 13 years of corn is your dozen, you know, extra tomatoes, cucumbers, but you just take them. So I didn't have a problem with giving stuff away. But I asked God for wisdom one time. Just said, please, if I can have anything in life, give me wisdom. and so people will say I kind of got it.

But I'm not the dumbest tool in the shed, but it's, it was kind of ironic because I was set aside and with the smart kids. And I was the dumbest of the smart kids. So I didn't really have this feeling that I was smart. But I'm professionally trained. I got my MBA in strategic thinking. So I've always been strategic thinker. And so this is this is not hard.

This is easy stuff. You're asking God for wisdom And that's really where you point to for direction, right? When you're faced with these immense challenges, you're solving global problems. Me as a founder, CEO, and leader, I'm always asking God for wisdom, but my problems are minuscule compared to what you're doing.

My problems are minuscule compared to God's problems. So, you know, I always said I'd love to be God if it weren't for the people. So I'll let him handle the people and we'll just do the water. but no, I mean, I don't know where the box is. So why not? You got one life. Why not? Why not?

In your book, Sawyer Think, you talk about timeless business truths. What's one truth that has guided you through every season? Well, I would say there's 25 lessons here to make your business smarter, better, more profitable. I would say I'm really big into creative destruction. Everything happens, you know, things change, whatever. I mean, think of life before. I mean, I grew up on rotary phones. Where are we now, you know?

So always try to be three to five years ahead of everybody else. You know, you think through what could happen then. So you get there before it avails. But there's one exercise in there called the decision matrix. And that's a life changer for anybody. So usually when you're making a big decision, you're hung up on two or three things. and those two or three variables just totally dominate your thoughts. This decision makes you come up with at least a total of 10, maybe even 20.

So when you start doing all these little things actually all add up. You'd be surprised like when choosing a college, a lot of people or marriage, those other 15 things actually will end up changing the three that you were stuck on. But more importantly, I don't believe in unattended. consequences. So what the other things do is help alert you to future headwinds, future what you would call unintended consequences, no, a good strategic planner already thought about that. What would I do if this showed up? So really the value of the decision matrix is it may change your decision, but more importantly, it will prepare you to think about all the other little things that could go

wrong that you haven't thought of. So that's a big one in the book. I would recommend that to anybody. Now, for those entrepreneurs watching this show right now, what's the first step toward building a business that puts purpose before profit but still sustains itself long term? Well, I always say two things. One, never lose your integrity. You don't get that back. Secondly, know what you know and know what you don't know. And don't pretend you know what you don't know. So if you don't know it, find people that will help you figure that out.

do not try to manage everything because you don't have the skill set. Nobody has all the skill sets. So know what you don't know and get people to help you on that. Don't try to micromanage something you don't have the skill sets for. So that's my biggest advice. If you start doing some of that with some of the tools in the book, you'll be successful. You'll avoid the problems coming down the road that you didn't think of when you should have thought of them ahead of time. now a couple last questions here it's it's about you know some of your goals what's a personal goal that

you have for yourself a goal that you have for soyer and a goal that you have for your family um well we're we're in good shape so my goal is just to keep my brain so i don't be silly but i've i've already got my successor named i've already i'm a delegator so i'm just a visionary i'm not the detailed person i got so much talented staff it's easy to hire high quality people who does want to be part of this, right? So I've got, I've always delegated to people who know what I don't know. So that's going to sustain the company. I just want to stay involved. This is fun. I mean, how much fun can you have? My family's fine. One of the things I did when they were growing up is I never answered their questions. When they would say, why this, why that?

I say, you tell me, I made them learn to think, made them learn to solve problems. And they're all up and running, doing just great, you know, very wise, very talented. I swore I would never put anybody in the company. That's why it's not called Avery Inc. It's called Sawyer Inc. I didn't want whether we're successful a failure. I couldn't do that to the kids. But then they ended up so stinking talented that my rest of the company made me bring them all in. So they're in. One of the daughter runs the foundation, incredibly talented. One does the social media unbelievable. I mean, the growth pattern since they've started doing social media.

Another one is waiting until the kids get in school so she can do more of the other stuff. She's a very smart kid. I do have one that's a missionary in Bolivia. So I, and the two- You have four kids? Pardon? Four kids.

I have four kids as well. And now the two son-in-laws play big roles because they were. were so stinking smart, how do I not use them? So I started my goal was never to have anybody in the family, and now I got what? Six. Five of them? Yeah. Five of them, yeah. Yeah.

Unbelievable. That's, what a blessing. What a blessing to be able to work with your family like that. My last question for you, when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you? Well, you only hope for one thing, well done, good and faithful servant. That's the only the only thing you want to hear. I have a phrase that you can't take anything with you to heaven except one thing. Those who became believers because of what you did. You're taking them with you.

I love that. I mean, that's what we're called to do, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we're doing it. You know, there's so many baptism, so many stories out there. It's just, it's humbling. It's so much it has to be humbling.

It's such a blessing to meet you, and it's such a blessing to talk to you and understand your mission and understand your profound wisdom and faith, your, you know, unwavering faith that's, you know, to say moving mountains isn't enough. God bless your service. God bless your mission. God bless what you're doing to help the millions of people struggling. I know that God's hand is clearly in your company, writing the story. and continuing to give you prosperity beyond worldly measure.

Thank you so much, Kurt. Now, if people want to find you, how do they connect to you, how do they get involved with your foundation, how do they donate, how do they spread the word? You know what the beauty of all this is? We're just getting started. We haven't even come close to doing what we're capable of doing. Soya.com, you can get a hold of us there.

There's all this data and research is on there. Stories from the international field are on there. They'll choke you up some of them. the foundation is just the SawyerFoundation.com again anybody who wants to donate it's all tax deductible

and 100% is going to go overseas you can usually even say I'd like this to go to Africa I'd like this to go to Central America I'd like this to go to the Philippines or whatever we can usually direct your donation to we're basically everywhere

so that's the easiest way you can get us to Sawyer.com or Sawyer Foundation dot com. And you can go to Sawyer. Dot Tom to get to the foundation. And how about on social media? Is it Sawyer?

Sawyer products on everything. We're on all the medias. So we have a pretty good following. Not as big as yours maybe, but we have a pretty good following. No, God bless you, man. It's all about just being on a mission to do God's work. And that's why it's humbling to be sitting in your presence

and just trying to spread the word. Well, we appreciate you helping to spread that words. Thank you. much. God bless you. God bless your service. God bless the mission. And I look forward to having you back on the show. Anytime. I love it. Thank you.