Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Lessons From Shark Kevin Harrington | Tony Murray | Coffeez with Joe Shalaby Ep. 319

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Entrepreneur Tony Murray sits down with Joe. Talking his way into college, getting told by a hedge fund veteran to run from finance, quitting everything to backpack Guatemala with a camera, and the campfire conversation that became a business. Then working under Shark Tank's Kevin Harrington, helping startups raise $84 million at the Tampa Bay Wave, buying $12K desert land and turning it into a glamping operation during COVID, and why businesses that ignore AI agents are already behind.New episodes every week. Pour up.

One, two. Pleasure. How are you doing? I'm great. Welcome to Coffies with Just Shalby. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It's super stoked to be here.

Yes. Can I get your coffee order? Yes. All right. So don't judge me. All right. Okay, I'm ready. Double Dirty Chit Lattee with pumpkin spice on ice with foam.

You're pretty good work. I am. Okay. Yeah, you got this? I got this. All right. I got you. Okay.

While I used that ready for you, I would love for you to try an assortment of our chocolates and choose. They're all dark. Am I gonna be like quiz on this? Yes. You have to tell me each one in order. Oh my goodness. Two's, I'm gonna get this ready.

And I wanna hear a little bit about this Josh Ritchie. You know, Glampy and Kevin has come up quite a bit. This today, just ironically. Yeah. So I'm thinking you're gonna be the guy who can teach us a little bit about that. I'd be happy to. Okay. I hear you're on the road trip too coming from Josh Rtree?

I am. Yeah, we just drove in from Josh Woodtree this morning. I'm with my girlfriend. I love that. She's wonderful, by the way. Thank you, yeah, she's a sweetheart. Shout out to Jules. I'm amazing boots right now too.

Right? She takes her boots very seriously. Those boots were made for walking. Hey, I love it. Our mileage just made up a lot. I know, and coming from Miami? Yeah. Yay, you guys are in for it.

Well, I love it, and I want to hear all about it. Come and join me. We're gonna go meet Joe. Joe, I have told me. Joe. Man, I'm at the legend. Thanks for having me. I know you drove, you know, far,

What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of coffees. I am your host, Joe Chalvey, and today we are sitting with a brilliant young founder, Tony Murray, co-founder of Hellenium Enterprises, a new company helping entrepreneurs scale their business from the ground up. Please welcome to one, the only Tony Murray. Thank you for having me on, man. It's a pleasure to be here. Hey, thank you.

Thank you for driving in from Joshua Tree and Illinois and Miami. I'm everywhere. Where else are you coming from? Doing a whole tour. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Oh, can we get you out?

Yeah. All right. Let's see how well you did this coffee order. Let's see. What is that? A double chai quadruple. Cold thumb. Hold the, you know, creativity.

What was that called? I actually, so I honestly just wanted a pumpkin spice latte. And as basic as it sounds, I know. But the truth is, they are delicious. And we're approaching, like, autumn. And I just, I just want something with spice. I normally get chai, like dirty chai lattes, which is like, chai, espresso, double shot espresso,

and it just always does the trick. Yeah, and it sounds like a good drink. I like to start the show off the same way I start with every guess. What's your morning routine, bro? My morning routine. So I think it's really important for people to have a morning routine because a lot of people wake up and it's just chaos. And so a few years back, I actually did establish my own morning routine,

and I like to start the morning's very calm, okay? I don't want to start with chaos. I have a zero chaos policy for my life. And so I wake up, generally, around like 7.7.30, sometimes if my girlfriend makes me sleep in, it's a different story. But 7.7.30 is generally when I wake up. That is sleeping in. FYI. Okay, listen, I'm not one of those psychos. You get up at 4 a.m., all right? You guys, you can be successful in business and not get up at the ass crack a dog.

Okay? It's true. For anyone out there who's wondering. But the first thing I do, I wake up, I make my bed, and then I pray. I'm not necessarily like a religious person, but I do believe in a higher power. And I think it's really important if you're going to do anything to express gratitude for all the things that go right. It's absolutely right. Right? And so I pray, thank God for my life, for my health, for my family, for my friends, for my business. And then I try to start a bit of a workout routine.

I'll just do like some push-ups, get the blood flowing, always drink water. I fast until about noon because I don't like eating first thing in the morning. And I think intermittent fasting's been really good for just keeping me, like, lean and in shape and like no fog in the first part of the morning. I don't know about you, but after I eat, I just want to go back to sleep sometimes. Yeah, of course. So, thank you, yeah. And so once I, like, do some push-ups and, like, get my blood flow in, have some water, maybe some electrolytes, and then I'll just, like, sit there and just enjoy the peace and quiet of the morning.

I'll sit on my balcony. I'll look at the sun. I can see the water from my place, and I'll just relax. Because I really want to set the intention that if I'm going to be able to be. going to have a good day. I want to start off with peace and tranquility. That's a good day. That's a great morning. Just a little bit closer. Yeah. All right. All right. So you spent years helping other people turn ideas into businesses. Yeah. What finally made you bet on your own business? Um, I got really frustrated working for other people because I like to move fast and I could see that. Yeah. And I think of a lot of

different ideas and I don't know, I kind of always like pull back at like a 30,000 foot view and I can kind of see like, okay, A, B, C, all the way to Z. And I would get really frustrated when I'm like, what do you mean you can't see this vision? What do you mean? Why aren't you doing this? You're actually losing revenue if you're not running this particular revenue architecture. Oh, you don't know what you're talking about. You're young, you're this, you're that, you know, just stay in your lane. And I would get really frustrated because there's nothing more disheartening than being a young, ambitious, intelligent entrepreneur, or just screw the word entrepreneur, just a young ambitious person who's trying to help, who's trying

to add value. And you're just kind of being put in this box. I've never liked being put into a box. I like being able to, if anything, find my way out of the box. And so I'll give you a bit of a background on me. I grew up in Philly. As soon as I was 18, left home, went down to Florida to the University of Texas. Tampa, shout out UT, and studied finance and economics.

Crushed it. Kind of had to talk my way into school, but we'll get to that. And ended up just excelling in school, super great GPA, overachiever by all means. I basically was on student government, co-founded the UT Investment Club, was on the Entrepreneurship Society, the Dean's Advisory Council, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Very much an over-achiever. Yeah, well, I, when I grew up, like, that does. didn't really exist. And so I basically had to talk my way into college. I didn't have the grades

in high school. And I basically applied to seven different universities. And when I got like rejected from a few of them, I was like, geez, like this college thing kind of sucks. And so the University of Tampa, which I really wanted to go to, mind you, Pennsylvania is way up here and way down here, for those of you who aren't listening, Florida, Tampa, really warm, sunny all year round. And all my friends were like, why do you want to go there? I said, look, call me in February. You'll figure it out really, really fast. And so I got waitlisted for the spring term, right?

And I'm like, well, I don't want to go in the spring. I want to go in the fall. I want to start school with everybody else. I want to be like a semester behind. And so I called my admissions counselor, and I was like, hey, I don't know if there's anything I can do that will increase my probability of getting in or I can talk to someone or something. but I really, really, really, really want to go to this school.

Can you help me? And she was like, look, honestly, not really. I can't promise you anything. But there is an admitted student's conference happening in Kancho Hocken. And it's in a couple of weeks. You should go there. You should meet with this guy. For the sake of privacy, I'll leave his name out.

His name started with a B. And he was like, go talk to Mr. B. And, you know, I can't promise you anything. but he's your best shot. So that's enough. I just need a chance. And so me being as tenacious as I am, I put on a suit, drove down to Philly,

and went to this conference. And I found Mr. B. shook his hand. He's like, you're Tony? I said, yes, I am. He was like, I haven't expected you. Excellent. We shot the shit for a few minutes.

Oh, you run cross country? Yeah, I run cross country. And he's like, why do you want to come to this school? I said, look, realistically, like, you guys have an amazing business school. You guys are growing. It's a good size. I feel like I could connect with my teachers that way.

And he was like, okay, all right, thanks. I was like, that's it. I'll talk to you later. I'm like, okay. And I left. And I had no idea how it went. And so I went home, and I remember getting a call from Mr. B. And he calls me.

He's like, Tony. I said, yeah. He's like, hey, it's Mr. B. just wanted to give you a call and let you know that I've pushed your application through. We'll see you in the fall. That's awesome. And I was like, oh, my.

God, like it was such an achievable moment for me, right? Because I was getting rejected from other schools because, like, I didn't have the GPA. I kind of slacked off my first two years of high school, which for those of you listening, don't do that. Take school seriously, kids. And so I got super jazz. So I went to school, studied finance and economics, and I was about to graduate. About a few weeks before my graduation, the Collegiate Entrepreneurship Organization, CEO, had a global conference, which was headquarters in Tampa. And Jeff Vinnick, the owner of the Tampa Bay Lightning, was the keynote. And so he got up there, he did his whole speech.

He was saying how he had his whole career up in New York, Fidelity Fund, blah, blah, blah. And it eventually led him to buying an NHL team and moving to Tampa. And so afterwards, he's like, does anyone have any questions? I shot up. I was like, yes, please, I do. And so he gave me a mic, and I was like, hi, like my little sheepish senior voice. I was like, you know, my name's Tony Murray. I'm a senior at the University of Tampa.

My question is, like, what advice do you have for someone like me? It's going to go in the world that you know so well. And he looked at me kind of like, almost funny. I was like, do you want the real answer? Do you want the bullshit answer? I said, the real answer, please. He said, don't. Don't do it.

And you can imagine the shock on my face of like this guy who just was up here talking for an hour and a half about how he ran New York's fund and took it from, I think it was 900 million to 9.9 billion over the course of like a 12-year run. That's incredible. I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, the margins are getting thinner. It's getting harder and harder to compete. It's not the same world as it was like in the 90s. Don't do it. Choose something else. So that's incredibly disheartening to anybody who's about to graduate, especially who just spent four years doing everything I could to, you know. Exactly. Exactly. like I've been the most overachiever kid

at this university and I'm basically getting told like you're fucked right how did it feel like when you heard that from him? It kind of felt like a punch in the gut and like my heart dropped a bit because I'm just like why did I do all this?

Like why did I just spend like a hundred thousand dollars? I took out loans I you know like what's the point? Why am I going to school? Just be told like you're screwed kid. It sucks to sell. And he said, pivot. Like, pivot.

You're young. You know, at the time I was 21, 22 years old. He's like, you're going to be fine. Just pivot. And so I went back to the drawing board and just started talking to people who was in my network. And when I was in college, I networked my ass off. Talk to anybody I could because I just wanted to know their story. I'd be like, oh, you made something of yourself in business?

How'd you do it? What do you do? Where are you from? I love that. Right. That's what I still do till this day. And I'm, you know, arguably, like, pretty successful. Congratulations.

And I still do that. But it's how you learn. Like, you don't learn. It's not, like, divine appointment to, like, just be bestowed all this information, right? Well, everyone's got a story. Yeah. Everybody's got a story. It doesn't matter if you're a plumber or an architect or the founder of Apple computers.

It doesn't matter. Everybody's got a story. And within that story, there's value. And, like, I wholeheartedly believe that. I will die on that hill. And so went back into my network, and I started reaching out to people, and there was a friend of mine, this kid James Zabrowski, who was actually a few years ahead of me at the time he was in charge of CEO, the collegiate entrepreneurship organization. And he said, you know, there's a board member who actually is a local. He's the original shark on shark tank, Kevin Harrington. He's looking for an executive assistant. Would you be interested? I'm like, yes. He's like, okay, well, do you know, like, here's the pay. I don't care.

I don't care. It's a great experience. Just throw in my resume. Please. Well, I went through three interviews, and I got the job. And so I remember driving over to St. Pete, which is where he's based, and met him for the first time. And he's such a shark. He's incredibly smart, dialed in all the time, just locked in guy.

And it kind of reminds me of you a little bit. Just, and, um... But more attractive. Oh, wow. They don't give you a break here. They bust your balls all the time. They do. It keeps me on my toes.

Went over there and I started talking to him about his business and, like, I got the job. And so every morning at 7.30 a.m. I'd go over. I'd be at his house and I'd stay there until about 7 p.m. at night because we worked out of his house. And I did that... You didn't even have an office? Well, he had an office, but like the whole kitchen was basically like he had a giant dining room table. And we worked from there because he had papers, spread out all over the place. He had his own filing system. And it was a really good experience. I met a lot of amazing people. And in that whole process, I learned how to screen and analyze

companies quickly. You know, I understand how to read P&L statements. I understood how to do basically more finance in a year of working for this guy than I did in four years of a college degree. And so, by the way, for anyone out there listening to this, I just want to say, if you're on the fence of whether or not you should get a job and get some experience or go to college, get a job and get experience. Because being a numbers guy, I've looked at the value, the lifetime value of a college degree. And it has substantially gotten shorter and shorter and shorter. Four-year college degree used to have a half-life of about 20 to 25 years.

If you're in a 40-year career field, then it makes sense. now the half-life of a college degree, I believe, is less than 10. So meanwhile, the price for that college degree has gone up exponentially. So you're taking out more debt, more money to learn a degree that's going to become exponentially offset by the rapid pace of technology and change with AI, right? And so for most people who are currently enrolled in college, they're going to be replaced by increased technology and increased artificial intelligence. but I digress.

So, I had a really great run working with this guy, ended up going to work with one of his competitors, this guy, Brian, and that became like a product development company. So he ran it as a hedge fund, and it was still in Clearwater and whatnot, and basically he found a niche

where he could basically take these devices that he built called 911 Help Now, and it was basically like, you press a button, it's like Life Alert, you fall, can't get up, you press the button, use the two G, sell towers then send out a response to the EMTs and they come and help you, right? Well, it was one of the best selling products ever on HSN and QBC, and we did that for a little

while, but then eventually the CFO of the company was like, hey, can you do me a favor? Can you like run through the numbers and kind of do a regression analysis of the company? Just understand how well we're doing because the guy who was doing it before me kind of dropped the ball. So I was like, yeah, man, I can do it. doing it because it just meant I was going to spend weeks sitting in a cubicle under fluorescent light, which is exactly what I hate, right? Crunching numbers, staring at a screen for eight hours a day. And upon my analysis, I realized that the company was not as profitable

as they thought. In fact, it was about half as profitable with three times the debt. Not good. Well, good thing your boring job worked for that, you know, and saved everyone's tail from investing further. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so basically, I, go to the CFO, I'm like, hey, here's the numbers, I'm concerned. And he's like, you sure about these? He said, yeah, check them three times. He's like, I'm gonna check him myself, and I'll let you know, you know, like, first thing in the morning. Okay.

He just runs off, right? And he just shuts the door to his office. I'm like, great. I'm just sitting there like, and like, everyone's asking me, like, what'd you find? You know, is it okay? I'm like. He is wedding room? Oh, yeah.

fine, everything's fine. So the next morning, walk back into the office. First thing I do, I'd always go to his office. I'm like, so elephant in the room. And he's like, yeah, I ran the numbers. You're dead on. He said, okay, so like, what are we going to do? He's like, what are we going to do? Literally gets up, walks around his desk, goes out the door, and he says, everyone. Mind, there was like 11 people working there. Friends, people who've been

working there for years. And he says, you're all fired. Effective immediately. You have 15 minutes to pack your shit. and vacate the premise. And they're like, they're like, are you joking? You can't do that in California, but I guess you could do that in Florida. And they're like, he's like, I'll do exit interviews. And like, it wasn't as harsh as that.

But, I mean, essentially, that's basically what took place. And I'm like sitting in this office like sweating because now everyone's pissed at me because I ran the number. I'm just like, I'm like a 22, 23-year-old kid. This is my second official post-collegiate experience job. And I'm just sitting there like, I just made 11 people lose their entire livelihood. They don't know what they're going to do. Most of them don't have credible experience. What have I done?

And I felt so guilty for doing my job, working for somebody else following their command. And I'm just like, this sucks. Believe it or not, the company got closed down, ended up pretty much all getting dissolved and changing into a new structure and all these things, salvaged the assets they could, and liquidated the rest. And it was at that moment where I was really going through it. I was not well. I was really suffering with my health, my mindset. I'm like, this can't be it. And mind you, I had a nice apartment. I had a nice car. I was going out on the weekends. I had plenty of friends. I lived in St. Petersburg, Florida, one of the most beautiful beaches in the United States. I was

on paper, super happy, right? Why aren't you happy? You have everything. What couldn't you be? And I felt empty. So I had a very dear friend, still very dear friend to this day. Her name's Emma, Emma Baum. And she saw what was happening. And she was like, I don't like what I'm seeing. I'm worried about you. A couple years before, she had actually left the United States completely on her own accord at like 18 and moved to Guatemala and went to a yoga retreat and then ended up getting her license to practice in yoga and become like a yoga instructor and all these things, right? Badass. That's after surviving a 100 mile per hour car accident, being medevac to the hospital, dying three times on the operating table, and in a coma for a week being told you never walk again. Chick's a badass. So shout out Emma. But she was like, I'm worried about you. You seem like you're really struggling. I'm like, I am. And she said, I think you just need a little Guatemala. Come down here.

I was like, I don't know if it's that easy. She just said, trust me. How well do I know you? Pretty well. She could come down. So I booked a ticket, hopped a flight, and went down to Guatemala for six days. I didn't tell my mother I left the country, by the way. I didn't tell anyone. I told two people, my brother and my friend's mom, because, like, one mom needed to know, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And so I left the country for basically a week and just gallivanted around Guatemala. And it was the first time I was introduced to hostels, to backpacker culture. to international travelers who were younger than me traversing the world, I'm like, wait a second, this is an option? What?

I'm like, wait, how can we don't talk about this? How can we don't talk about there's kids from quite literally every other country in the world flying across oceans with nothing more than the stuff on their back living life? Because a lot of them, they're young,

they don't know what they want to do. Some of them are going into college, some of them just graduated college, some of them are saying, fuck college all come entirely. And I'm like, what do you? And I would ask these kids, I'm like, what do you do? Unemployed. And I'm like, wait, you're-

I do this. I'm just traveling. Yeah? I got this backpack and I'll go somewhere next. And I'm just mind-blown. Freedom culture. It is. And for the first time in my life, I'm like, oh, this.

I need this. Like, this is what. I always dreamed about doing that after college. Never got the chance. Well, so after that beautiful week abroad that nobody knew, My mom tried calling me. She's like, why aren't she picking up your phone? I'm like, oh, yeah, Verizon's upgrading their towers from 4G to 5G.

So it's just a lot of dead signals. Just FaceTime me. So Christmas comes around. This is about Thanksgiving to Christmas a month. It's 2018. And I bring my mom all these gifts back from Guatemala, coffee, chocolate, cacao, silver, jade. She's like, these are beautiful. Where'd you get it?

It's like, right. Remember how you thought I was, in Tampa for Thanksgiving. I lied. I'm sorry, don't crucify me. I was in Guatemala. And she's like, where are you now? I said, yes. And she said, well, it's okay. You're safe. And I said, there's a part two to this. She's like, what's part two? She probably thought I got like someone pregnant or something crazy. Yeah. And I said, I'm quitting my job. I'm packing my life up on my back and I'm spending the next year traveling. And she was like, no, you're not.

You are not doing that. And I said, yeah, I am. I'm an adult and I can do what I want. And I said, look, don't worry about me. I'm going to figure it out. She said, what are you going to do for money? I don't know. I'm going to figure it out.

And so I sold everything I had, packed my life up on my back, and started traveling. And I first came out here to California with a couple of my buddies, Nikki and Jordan, and we came out here, did a bit of a road trip, up to California 1, saw National Parks for the first time, and it just kind of got me started. Then, got on a flight, went down to Costa Rica,

went up from Costa Rica to Guatemala, kind of got lost in Guatemala for a little while, and that's when I started my business. Because I was sitting on a lake with an Australian lad who is a photographer, and it's early in the morning, and I don't know if any of you guys have ever seen Lake Atitlan in Guatemala,

but it's one of God's most beautiful places on earth. It's an incredibly blue, deep, serene lake, flanked with volcanoes across all sides. And the clouds just kind of hang along the top. And so when the sun hits them in the morning, it's just gold and rainbow colors, just all in this beautiful, gigantic cauldron that is Lake Atte La Tintan.

And so I basically was sitting there, just enjoying the morning on this lake, and there's this Aussie lad sitting next to me named Kane. And I'm like, what's up, man? He's like, hey, I'm like, are you a photographer? He's like, yeah. Yeah. I'm like, yeah.

I'm like, you're, you get paid to do this. He's like, yeah, I'm like, so you're, are you here right now getting paid? He's like, about, right? So, okay, so beautiful places fly you out and pay you to take pictures and videos of their hotels, of their hostels, of their Airbnbs. And that's your job. He's like, yeah, pretty much sums it up. I'm like, how do I do that? He's like, do you have a phone, cut? I was like, did you just call me a gun?

And he, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, mate, it's a tim of endearment. I'm like, is it? That's where you are. Is this it? Is that where you were? That's it? That's it? Yeah, no, that's it. That's damn near where I was sitting. So there's three volcanoes. That's the one to the right.

San Pedro is the town kind of off there to the right. And that's in the morning. So you can see how the side of the volcano, which is, by the way, extinct. It's not going to open up back up, so you don't have to worry. That's actually a 12,000 foot above sea level volcano. Yeah, so you can right at the base of the lake, that's about 7,000 feet. And then to climb up the rest is like another, give or take, 6,000 foot. hike. It's amazing.

Thanks for pulling that up. God, that makes me miss it. So I'm sitting there basically staring at that with this lad cane, and he basically called me a cunt. I'm like, dude, it's a term of endearment, whatever. And he's like, you have a phone? I said, yeah, I have a phone. He's like, just start taking pictures. Just start taking

pictures and learn how to use the lightroom, like learn how to edit. Yeah. So I did. And I just started one by one, like, messaging hostels and boutiqueau tells me, like, hey, look, like I'm a photographer just getting started. Would you do a trade with me? Like, just give me a few free nights

and I'll give you some content you can use on your socials. They're like, yeah, okay, so I did. How did you get, like, customers in the beginning with business to say yes to you? Like, with no real track record of making people money, you reportedly helped close over $10 million in retail sales. Yep, that was HSNQVC. Yeah, what did it take to get all those,

deals to the finish line. Again, back to you having no real true credibility other than writing Kevin Harrington spoke to. Good question. Essentially, it's kind of the law of large numbers, so I just reached out to people over and over and over again. Consistency always wins. It does. And so like, you know, let's just say you reach out to 100 businesses. 80% of them are not going to respond. 20% might, and probably about 15 out of those 20 are going to be noes. and maybe five out of those are interested, right? As soon as I got anyone who was remotely interested, I would just go to the property, right?

And especially being in Guatemala, I could just walk into a property and be like, hey, I'm Tony, who owns this place? And just start talking to them. Is there a lot of opportunity in Guatemala right now? Tons, yeah. I mean, there's opportunity anywhere, but, like, I think when you get away from major cities

and you get away from these hubs where everyone's just cutthroat, right? And you go to places like Guatemalan. Marlaca, Mexico, San Cristobal, et cetera. You can meet people who are still mom and pop shops, who are still making money, they still have a business, but they're not just overloaded with the nonsense that a lot of people are getting in the noise

of major cities. And so me being me and just being as tenacious as I am, I just started talking to people. And I was like, hey, you know, like Mike, nice to meet you, this is your hotel? Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it. Oh well, you know, 35 years.

five years ago, da-da-da, and that's how I started gaining business. I'm like, look, I'm a photographer. I don't got a lot of experience, but if you let me, let me show you what I can do. In the same way that I talked to my way into college, I just said, let me show you what I can do. And if you hate it, kick me off your property. It's basically free for you. It costs you nothing.

I'm not asking you to pay me. I just need a place to sleep and, you know, maybe, like, let me take some pictures. Now, I got a question, because you work with businesses, and you kind of do these mini evaluations or these full evaluations. with these companies. What's the difference to you, or what's the difference that you've been able to deduct,

the difference between a $1 million purchase order and a $1 million business? So, like, you're asking me the difference between a business that would be net worth of a million versus one purchase order? Yeah. Okay, well, I mean, a purchase order, you could have 10 purchase orders

that are a million dollars. That means that they're, theoretically speaking, are at least worth 10 million in their business. Yeah. A business that's only worth a million. Are they worth a million in assets? Are they worth a million in, like, are they running a million dollars in revenue per year? Is that profit?

I mean, it gets a little bit more complex than that, but I'd want to understand, like, okay, what's your revenue architecture? How do you guys make money? What are your liabilities and everything? And let's deduct what we can to see, okay, you guys have how much in assets, what's sitting in the bank, how much are you actually making? What is your, not an opportunity to cost? Your darn right? Yeah. All the necessary numbers that are.

actually go into making a formula of what a company is worth and basically ripping it apart and exposing the truth behind how much a company actually makes. And that's pretty much what you do now. Yeah, so after this whole long-winded journey of like going through and doing a whole bunch of marketing and stuff for like all different types of businesses and brands, Hilton, got worked my way up all the way to like Hilton, Marriott, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, travel all over the world. Biggest things out there. Some of them, yeah.

got really tired of dealing with like mid-level managers at hotels who like think they have authority and they don't and they're not actually decision-makers. And so after a while, like once they say, do what you love and you're never going to work a day in your life. But people forget that anything that you do for money is a job. And with that, when people are paying you, comes with certain expectations. And it's difficult, especially in the creative side, when you're producing images and videos and reels and social media. And it's like you have a specific idea, concept, of how you want it to look and a vibe that the place has. And that's your experience.

And you're putting that forward. And it gets really soul-crushing when sometimes they're like, we don't like it at all. Oh, we don't like this color. We don't like that. I'm like, hey, this is your place. And this is my experience here. And then people fight you on cost and money.

And then the difficult thing, the truly difficult thing, is that iPhones, they've gotten better and better and better, right? And so now anybody and their mother who's got an I phone in Capcut, believes that they're a content creator, and then... Videographer, photographer. And they'll just come in and they'll be like, hey, you know, like, I know that you're doing this for, you know, let's just say you got a $2,000 retainer per month. Well, my niece came in and said she'll do it for $500 a month.

And I'm like, okay, well, I'm not doing it for $500 a month. And I'm like, okay, well, then we're going to cut you loose. And then they come back three months later, hey, my niece ended up screwing it all up. Would you mind coming back on? And now everything's screwed up. The algorithm's messed up. And it's just like, it became a headache. And how's going to pass your five a month?

Yeah, exactly. And so what we realized, though, is like working with all these different businesses and my business partner, Safe, who has one of the most amazing analytical minds of anyone I've ever met, we started realizing that there were a bunch of these businesses that were just not doing the fundamentals properly. They weren't setting up, even their filing systems correctly. They didn't have the right documents, the organizational structure. They didn't any of it.

It was just kind of like a hobby that was making money. And so we basically started understanding like, okay, there's a true need out here for financial modeling and proper design work and even like... Especially for young founders. I mean, like, they don't know any of that stuff. They just kind of, I'm going to learn through... YouTube. Failure. Yeah, and failure.

Yeah. Both. And I did learn a lot through trial and error. I did learn a lot through failure. But I also learned a lot through winning and like what works. And so through all of that and all that winding. course of craziness, I ended up coming back to the world of finance and economics and being able to understand like, okay, what are your main revenue drivers of the business? How are you making

money? How are you getting new clients? What are you doing to consistently serve the clients who already have? Are you treating them with unreasonable hospitality? Are you making sure that they're never going to want to leave? Because if you're not, they will. Because there's always going to be somebody out there who's going to undercut your costs. If you live by cost, you die by cost. So what else are you doing? And we started putting together these true, amazing financial models for different businesses, especially startups, who were trying to get an idea, read on what they're worth. There are a couple of businesses in Miami. One's called Echinos. It's a generative AI company. Another one's called Sections. It does, like, think, fractionalized nightlife. What is fractionalized

life? Good question, I'll tell you. Basically, let's just say you're a guy in Miami and you don't get things for free because you're not a hot girl. You basically, instead of paying $5,000 or $10,000 for a table, which personally, I don't feel like doing that, you can go out and you can get a table for a fraction of that cost, $500. Because you've got to be with a bunch of random dudes. Yeah, but it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter because you're at a club anyway. Exactly. It doesn't matter. And so it basically lowers the... That is a genius thing. I'm sure that would be great. Next time I'm in Miami. Yeah. Well, and they throw the craziest parties you've ever seen

your life. Like, that's basically what puts you. them on the map. They had like art basil's coming up. They're going to have a crazy party. But anyway, these companies... All the parties are crazy in Miami. It really is. Yeah, it's exhausting. Really, it is. Like, it's fun and beautiful, but I, there's a reason I'm doing a road trip. I wanted to break. Yeah, you're doing the opposite of Miami living there. I was telling my girlfriend, I'm like sitting there, staring at the stars, I'm like, this? Or Miami, she's like this all day. Joey's to pop up. Yeah, yeah. Back in the day when I was your age, probably. What are you? 35.

Yeah, a little old bit. We'll go with that, though. Like, what are some of the best lessons that you've learned from working under Kevin Harrington? Ooh, good question. What are some of the best lessons I've learned from working under Kevin Harrington? Well, you actually said one of them earlier.

Consistency beats talent or even any type of skill any day of the week. If you can show up consistently, you're ahead of 90% of the... you're ahead of 90% of your competitors, right? However, the one that I use to this day, and I will absolutely give him credit for this, is he said, always follow the eyeballs.

Because he got really famous because he created As Seen on TV. And his whole story about how he ended up doing his whole business and everything, he started off and he had an HVAC company. Something that was year-round and everybody needed it. He went to a home show, and he saw the guy with the Ginsu Knife, chopping up potatoes and tomatoes and drop the frickin' coke can on it,

slices it in half and whatnot, and then he cuts a tomato real thin again. And Kevin was like, we need to film this and put it on TV. And around that same period of time, Kevin had just got his first cable package, which had like 32 channels on it. And he was flipping through Discovery at like 10 o'clock, and those colored bars come up on the screen, the ones that don't really exist anymore.

Yeah. And he's like, what the heck? And so he called the cable company. He was like, it's broken, you know? Like, what the heck? I'm like, no, we just don't have anything to fill that slot. And he was like, you could sell something here, right? That's how the light ball went off.

And so he filmed the guy doing the Ginsu Knife demo and then put it on TV and got an exclusive and crushed it. And then he went from local channel to national. And then he just started having all different types of people come in. And so he said, I just looked at where the eyeballs were going. He's like, I just literally saw that all these people were watching these television shows and that more people are going to keep watching him. Radio is dead. And he was like, so follow the eyeballs.

And then he continued that same progression through social media. So follow the eyeballs. That's a great, great, great piece of wisdom for him. And I didn't know that he was the founder of a scene on TV. Technically nobody's allowed to coin it because, like, there's, I don't know, like public, use rights or whatever. But he essentially is the founder of Asseeing on TV. And I have a lot of respect for that, man.

He taught me a lot about business, about people, about how to screen companies. I mean, I probably screened 100 companies per week. And I say companies with these air quotes because there are people who would like send us ideas that was basically like a plunger with a light and an air freshener. And every time you plunge it, it releases set. I'm like, what? What is this? And they're like, no, no, no, just trust me, it's a billion dollar company.

I'm like, okay, have you done any market research? No. Have you done any manufacturing or tooling? No. Have you done any type of, like, cost analysis? No. Have you done any type of... Have you done anything other than the idea?

No. No. And they're like, and this is kind of where we'd always joke and say like, Shark Tank, ruin America because we were like, people think, like, I just have to come up with an idea. And that's it. And then I'm going to license the idea. idea to someone and they're going to do all the heavy lifting. Kevin explained to me he was like an idea

is worth about 2% of a final product. That's it at best. He was like the amount of design, manufacturing, business development, sales, marketing. It's astronomical and nobody under- 50-x, yeah. Yeah. Like that's why 99% of businesses fail within the first year and, I'm sorry, 95% of businesses fail within the first year. I think 99% fail within the first year. I think 99% fail within the first three. And there's a great book out there for anybody who hasn't read it. It's called The E-Mith. And it basically talks about why people fail when they start a business.

And the concept is very simple. He uses a parody of a baker. This person who starts off and is really good at baking cakes, bread, cakes, da-da-da. And then, have you read it? Have you read the email? And everyone's like, you are the best baker ever, ever. I was like, Trump, you're the best baker. And he's like, no, but you should start your own business.

You should start your own bakery. So Lee starts their own bakery. And then struggling. Not even that. It's just like that person who was the technician of making baked goods, then now has to become the janitor. It has to become the manager, has to become the accountant, has to become the baker itself, as well as everything else.

The administrator. All of it. And so. The secretary, the chef. Yep. The pooper. scooper all of it. And so it's like, the truth is, it's like people don't realize that just because you're a good technician at doing something means that you can actually run a company. And a piece

of advice that Kevin also told me, he said, if you're going to run a business, make sure that whatever your costs are, your profit is 5x. That is the minimum margin you should have to make sure that you don't go underwater. Because that 5x is what's going to be able to allow you to leverage. I need an accountant, I need a manager, I need a sales team, I need a marketer. So now you've got four people you need to hire. Maybe you can overlap them a little bit, but at least then you still are making some profit and you can have a team that can run something when you're away from the desk. That's awesome.

All right, we're going to do a quick coffee, Bernie? I'm still sipping on mine, but I'd love some water. Hi, guys. I'm hijacking Joe's chair today. Don't mind me. You might recognize me. I'm your favorite parista, Alyssa, here on Korni. Coffees with Joe Shallaby.

And I wanted to ask you something. Do you think that you have a story that belongs here on coffees? You don't need a publicist, a booking agency, or marketing firm to reach us. All you have to do is go to our website, click Apply to be a Guest, and submit your story directly to our production team. All of the submissions go through our formal vetting and editorial review processes. We reserve a limited number of complementary editorial opportunities. While applicants not selected for one of those opportunities may still be considered for our paid featured guest media partnerships. Tell us who you are, what you've built, and why our audience needs to hear your story.

We can't wait to hear from you, and I hope to see you at my coffee shop. At Tampa Accelerator, you worked with reportedly some of the best startups, and you raised about $84 million. That's right? That's right. They did. Okay. What was your role in actually raising that much capital? How did you do it?

some of the strategies that you use to get that much money in? That's a really good question. So the company that you're referring to is called the Tampa Bay Wave. And when I worked there, I was still a student at the University of Tampa. That's crazy. You did that as a student. Well, I can't take all the credit for this at all. In fact, we had a team of people who did a really good job at reaching out to a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners in the greater Tampa Bay area. And basically, because they were a 503-1-3-9-profit, or 5013C nonprofit, they basically approach to these businesses and we're like, look, realistically, right, you're doing, you're a car

dealership and you're making $100 million a year, right? And of that, you're doing about 50% profit. And so I'm just throwing numbers out here. But you don't want to pay taxes on that, right? So donate 10 million to these startups. We're going to promote the hell out of your company, right? And you're doing a lot of good and sending the elevator back down for a lot of these businesses. So my job, I was essentially like an intern, an elevated intern at this company while still a full-time student in college. And my job is to like reach out to business owners and basically solicit them to be like, hey, look, like, you know, you're doing well. How would you like 100% tax deduction to, you know? And they're like, yeah, 100%. I'd rather give it to other entrepreneurs and business

owners directly than to Uncle Sam. Or some random fundraiser that's going to pocket it. Exactly. And so, over the course of a year, they raised about $84 million, something around that nature. And I mean, it was just a whole lot of calling. We had three people on the team who were just like reaching out these people. And then a lot of it was, hey, look, like if you're on the fence, just come on in and take a look at the incubator. It's really cool. And we'd bring them in. We'd give them a whole tour. And we would strategically show them a lot of the different startups that were incubated within this accelerator program. And there was one really, really, cool one that had, it was kind of like all trails before it was all trails and it was like

a get your guide situation. And basically they were able to raise a lot of money and get and fun a lot of things in there because they basically would pair groups with a guided tour guide and like scaled it across all 50 states rather quickly. However, where they screwed up was they didn't create non-competes with all their guides. And so the guys were like, why am I paying you 30%? I'm just going to take your business and get my own guides. And so the business went up and then it went down. And I remember asking that founder, I'm like, what was your biggest, like, oh shit, I screwed up moment.

He was like, we didn't do the non-competes with our guides. Something's so simple. They're not even enforceable here in California. Seriously? Yeah. I mean, there's like, I don't even want to get into your laws here in California, like the squatters laws and stuff. Like, it's crazy.

Yeah, like most of those non-competes don't work here. I will never do business. in California again. After like my Airbnb company that I co-founded with these two lovely people, Josh and Emily, back in COVID, I'm never ever going to do business in California again. I mean, you're in Florida. It's the best for business. It's the best. Yeah. It's absolutely amazing. There's so much money and opportunity going into Florida right now, specifically Miami. But like living is better here. You guys got good weather, all right? I'll give you that. I mean, there's a lot more than that. I will. But back to your question. Like, what do investors,

look for when they're looking to invest in a business, the main thing is proof of concept. If you can showcase to an investor, like, hey, look, we have this idea. Let's just say it's, whatever, it's a widget, right? We have this idea, and we've actually already been able to take this from idea to realization, and now we have actually produced money with this concept, right? And then we're like, okay, how much have you done? And it's like, okay, part two is, were you able to take that idea, make some money? Yeah.

Were you able to finish and get rid of all your losses? Yes. And then were you able to exponentially grow that month over month? That's what most people don't understand that the definition of entrepreneurship and the difference between being an entrepreneur and a business owner is one thing. And it's scalability. Yeah. If you don't have a hockey stick shaped graph, then you're not a lot of it. an entrepreneur. I hate to break it to you guys. But if you can't infinitely scale that up,

then it's not an entrepreneurial business. It's a small business. It could be doing really well. You could be doing a million dollars a year or two million dollars a year. But if you can't turn that one million to two million to four million to eight, then technically speaking by the definition of what is entrepreneurship, you're not an entrepreneur. Got an argument with a lift driver once, but he was like, yeah, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm like, really? What do you do? He's like, this. I'm like, hmm. Can you scale that? Can you multiply your yourself 100x. I mean, if he gets a...

He'll show his first job, dude. Actually, I was Chuckie at Chuck cheese. You were what? Well, I mean, it's debatable. I was an ice cream scooper at Thrifty's. He got fired at Thrifty's. Yeah. It's all right.

I worked for Rita's water as this is my first job. Yeah, and then we had the guy from Wahoo's Fish Taco who was actually in the midst of buying Thrifty's and it was kind of a cool story. Some good banter. You got fire for some people that was free scoop. Yeah, free scoops of ice cream. Hey, man.

But, you know, you made those people's day. Yeah, exactly. That's what's life's about. What are they learning? Like, two cents per ice cream? Fuck off. Like, look. Who? He's not that old. That is wrong. You know.

It wasn't off though. It was like 40 cents. No, but like, but what retail, retail ice cream versus. Damn. Damn. You're throwing them under the bus. No, but like. That old, though. If it's an ice cream shop, realistically, like, you're maybe losing, if you're given away, like, regular-sized ice cream,

see, if you're probably losing, like, 20 cents maybe, right, on profit? You know, now, ice cream at, uh... What, Coldstone? Like, by my house, what's that place called where it's, like, nine bucks a scoop? It's, uh... You go to that fancy. It's, it's the Italian ones. I forget what it's called.

What's the one that Disneyland downtown business? No, no, but the new Italian spots by my house are, like, nine bucks, ten bucks, and there's a line out the door. For a school? Nine bucks? Yeah, Bacho delete. Bacho delete. It's insane. I'm sure it's delicious. Even, yeah, it's insane.

But that's where my kids want to go get ice cream. I'm like, no, we're going to go buy a gallon. That's probably real ice cream. It's probably real gelato. Yeah, you know, like, it's real gelato, yeah. It's like insane. I'm also so suspicious anymore, though. Like, I see a line outside.

I'm like, half of these are paid actors just to stand out here and make it look really popular. and it blows up on TikTok. Oh, this is the most famous ice cream shop and all of it. Oh, yeah. TikTok has just changed the game. They were paying influence. See?

See. And it's a good strategy. Yeah, they have a thousand shoppers. 892 of them are influencers paid on salary. They're not making any money. Because you've worked with so many founders. What do you think a founder should prove before they even ask for a penny? Man.

What do I think? a founder should prove, well, first and foremost, I think a founder needs to wholeheartedly and abundantly believe in their business, like almost like stupidly so. Like they need to be so bold on what they're doing that like, because realistically they need to be able to sell the dream. Yeah. Because nine times out of 10, if you're a business owner or a founder or a creator, you're starting something in new waters, right? Unless you want to enter a red ocean with a bunch of other people and you're going to, you know, there's blood in the water already. Yeah. So if you're a founder and you're like starting something new, like you need to be,

you need to be like wholeheartedly obsessed with whatever it is that you're doing. You need to breathe it. Breathe it like obsessed, like first thing you do when you wait and jazzed about it because that will carry you through when people tell you you're a dreamer. Yeah. When people tell you that you're in over your head, that you don't have what it takes. They'll tell you to just get a regular job. they'll tell you that you should just,

when are you going to settle down? When are you going to come back to reality? Like the people who are closest to you will tell you this. Your own mother, your brother, your friends, everyone's going to look at you like you got seven heads until you make it, until you start making money, until you start crushing past all the people that told you couldn't. And then everybody's like, I always knew it.

I always knew. Oh, man, that Tony guy. My gut was telling me. Yeah. It's like, really? I got the text messages, motherfucker. I mean, say, like, you know. I got receipts.

But the truth is, it's like, if you're a founder, you need to be obsessed with whatever it is that you're doing, and you need to be able to have the stomach to weather people telling you you can't until you make it. It's so true. And how much they, like, they feel like, you know, how many times have I been told, like, you're crazy? And it says, like, you know what?

I've been told that so many times. It's kind of compliment. Like now at this point, I'm like, I love it. Like, if you tell me that about that idea, I'm like, I know I'm onto something. Yeah. Like, I take it the opposite way. I really find joy in that. Like, wow, they thought that idea was crazy.

I mean, it's going to work. Yeah. There's a guy I'm working with right now. His name's Andrew Dennis. He's the founder of a company called Gigacrete. Okay. And basically, he's a disruptor. by all means of this company.

It's like a concrete? Yeah, kind of. But basically he's able to deploy buildings and like out of foam with like essentially this stucco plaster tile solution that he has that can withstand gunshots. And it's moldproof, windproof, dustproof, waterproof, waterproof. I think I saw that on TV or something. Yeah. And like every individual.

industry along the way has basically tried to stonewall him. Like, you know, there's billions of dollars in the Portland cement industry that are trying to say, like, you ain't shit. But meanwhile, he's passed every test with flying colors. And for, like, the last 25 years, he's been disrupting the entire space. He also takes waste products from, like, paper, sawdust, other things that most people will just consider, you know, like, they basically pay people to take this stuff away. That becomes binding agents in his actual process.

I'm not sure how much of this I'm actually allowed to explain over a podcast. But the truth is, is like he, his entire life has been told, oh, you're insane. You're, that can never work. You're, you're, it's impossible. And quite literally he says, I love nothing more than to, when people tell me that something's impossible to make it so. And he has. He actually also designed, um, back in the, I think 70s, there was like a Ford, like a Ford future, car or something. He designed the whole spaceship, like, for the thing, and that guy I'm kind of

famous. He actually designed the X-wing fighter jet that goes in, like, Star Wars, like two years before they even, like, released it. Wow. Yeah, like, he, the guy's guy. Guys are a real deal. Yeah, real deal. So making the impossible possible is, I mean, yeah. Let's talk about Alenia really quick. You went from helping businesses grow to building an operation that combines creative and commercial disciplines, which is pretty cool. Thanks. What problem made you start Alinium instead of another single service agency like you had before? Honestly, it kind of evolved naturally with my business partner and myself.

Like I started off just doing the marketing and photography and videography for companies, and I was very happy doing that. But as the years continued and as it became more competitive in that market, I realized, like, I need to do something a bit more niche, a bit more disciplined than just, just what I'm doing right now. I need, you know, like, there's a lot of people getting into this space, and it's not the same world it was last year or even six months ago. And so we kind of went back to the drawing board and started to just at a very high-level

view, take a look at like, okay, out of every single person we've worked with, out of every single company we've worked with, out of every single business small to large, where has been the common denominator of things that they've been lacking? And believe it or not, a lot of it came down to finance and organizational matters because nobody wants to touch it. Nobody wants to talk about it. It's not sexy. It sucks. But it's necessary.

And if you can understand. And that's what you know best. It is. Like, I can look at a spreadsheet and a bunch of numbers and just see a pattern and a formula. And to me, it makes sense to a bunch of other people, it's just numbers on a screen. I'm like, what do you mean? It clearly states here. Like, there's an error and this is what, you know, this is where it's messed up.

Why? And so being able to have that skill to look at numbers on a screen and understand like, okay, here's the pattern, here's the growth, here's the recession, we need to change something, has become an incredibly valuable skill just doing like high level evaluation of companies. And what's cool is like now what we're able to do is we'll sit down with a business and we'll say, okay, what do you do? Like, oh, we create generative AI for like music videos and you drop in a sound file. This is Echinose, by the way.

Drop in a sound file. creates a music video within five minutes. Oh, that's cool. So how do you make money? It's like, well, we were gonna do like subscriptions and this and that, it's like, pause. You need to know this fundamentally, right? And so then we sit down with the founders

and we're like, okay, look, like here's your main revenue producing thing, but you also can do this add on, you can do this add on, you can do this. Now you have five different channels for making money that's not solely dependent on this one maker. Also, what are you doing to keep these people, right? Once they sign up for your trial that's discounted, how can you ensure that they're gonna stay on, right?

These are questions you need to be asking yourself if you're running this company. And so we started basically understanding like, okay, whether it's a tech app or it's for parties or you're selling paper, all businesses have to ask themselves fundamentally the same questions and make sure that their finances are good, making sure their organization is good.

And that's where we come in and we're like, look, once we have all of this laid out, now we can give you a defensible valuation that is on part, with any like the big four accounting firms, that's going to take way less time, and it's far more cost-efficient and far more personalized than dealing with some gigantic company like Deloitte or BWC. That's amazing.

And that's a pretty cool problem because you kind of solved something that, like, big, small companies can't afford Deloitte. No. Do you know how much it cost to do a pro forma financial plan or a pro forma financial model from one of those companies? I'm sure hundreds of thousands. De Lloyd sucks, man. Price potter outscoo.

They suck. And you're going to spend a minimum $60,000. You're going to be dealing with a team of 14, most of which who are interns and, you know, like younger admins, who it's going to take for maybe six months to get you that analysis. And you're going to be bounced around like a ping pong ball to a dozen different people. My team comes in and says, look, we'll charge you a fraction of that. So instead of 60,000, it's like 15, right? we can do payment plans because we know you're getting started and you're dealing with us. If you have questions, we're doing it with us, right? And my team will be solely focused on making sure that you have everything you need to make sure that we are good to go. So that by the end of this whole process, maybe you thought your company was worth $5 million.

Turns out it's actually worth $13. And now you can go raise at that evaluation. And if you need us to help you introduce to those people, we got some people for that too. And so we actually found a really unique niche in that, like, I don't even want to call it analytics, but like it is a data analysis aspect combined with like design and almost consulting. It's a very strange space, but it's been working out all right. That's awesome. Thanks. Now, when you went from evaluating other people's businesses to operating your own hospitality venture, how did the off-grid Joshua Tree glamping idea, even become like a real business.

All right, so let's wind the clocks back to 2019. So before I left the country, I came out here to California, and I met a guy named Josh David at a random party from a party to a party to a party here in the hills of L.A. That's how it happens. And I walked into this really crazy mansion up in the hills, and there was this guy there dressed in all black, kind of how I am right now,

and he had this really cool, like, Indian head ring on his hand. I was like, that's a cool ring. And, like, if you guys are out there listening to this, like, find something about someone that you find interesting and just start a conversation about, hey, I really like your jacket with the red stitching. That's cool. Where'd you get it, right?

Like, everyone's favorite topic to talk about is themselves. So let them talk about themselves. Yeah. So I met this guy, Josh, had a bandana around his head and this gold ring. I'm like, dude, cool ring. And he's like, nice to meet you. What's your name? Tony, dada.

What do you do you? here is like, oh, I'm a bud tender. I'm like, what the hell is a bud tender? I've heard of a bartender, not a bud tender, just had joints and stuff going at this party. I'm like, this is so California. It's so California, it hurts, but I loved it. We ended up talking and just shooting the shit until about five in the morning. I had a 7 a.m. flight. I was like, dude, I would love to continue this conversation, but I got to get to the airport. He's like, bro, nice meeting you. I have a feeling like, we'll keep in touch, and I'll see you down the road. Almost a year to the date later, we started Desert Sky Escapes,

which was a company in California Gold Coast Hospitality, right? During COVID, we, like, as it started, we were all dispersed over different parts of the country. Josh was out here in California. At the time, I was in Pennsylvania, in Philly, like where I grew up, I was at home at my family's house. and we had like people in this network of like our social media like in different parts of the U.S. So we started posting on on social media as Josh really spearheaded this and he was like, hey, we're launching something pretty cool in the next few weeks. Like every basically.

And he was like, but like everyone who's interested like just, you know, we're going to be doing like a live call in like countdown three weeks, two weeks, one week, bam, live call. And about like 150 people joined this live call. And basically what it was, we called it the circle of wealth, the cow, for short. And that concept was very simple. It was just like, hey, guys, the world's really crazy right now. Everything's shut down. It's COVID.

Everyone just keeps saying two weeks, two weeks, two weeks. Remember that? When I was just like, oh, hey, just two more weeks. Just, yeah. And then it was another two weeks. And at this point, it's been like two months. We're like, what? This is kind of bullshit.

And so we were trying to get like live boots on the ground information like, what's happening in your neck of the woods, right? Like, what's it like in Cali? What's it like in L.A.? What's it like in Illinois? What's it like in Texas? And in doing so, we just kind of were like planting the seeds of like, what can we do to make money, to grow, to like leverage all of our social capital here to do something cool.

And Josh had literally just gone out to Joshua Tree and stayed in this really interesting little tiny house. And he comes back. He's like, guys, listen. there is no COVID in Joshua Tree. It's the desert. Nobody gives a fuck, okay? There's no masks.

It's California, but there's no masks. It's crazy. There's an opportunity here. And so Airbnb used to be really lax on all of their different, like, analytics. Like, you could go on, you could see how booked in an Airbnb was, and you could see how much they're going for every night. You can almost see who's booking it, right? And so we were looking at these little shacks that people had postings,

listed up on their random little lots in the middle of Joshua tree. They're selling for like $150,200 bucks a night. That's $4,500 to $6,000 a month if rented out 30 nights a month, which they were. And we're just like, hang on. These guys are making, they have two of them. They're making $12,000 a month with two tiny houses that are, like, dude, I bought my kids and landed in 29 palms next door to. You should put it?

I was thinking about putting like four times. tiny homes on their form? You absolutely should. Because make it revenue. It's right next door to Joshua Tree. It's right there. Yeah, in fact, there's a whole park entrance down in there too that they were like building out too. It's amazing. Skull Rock is right there. 29 palms is growing. Absolutely. Put some tiny house. I bought it for him when he was

like four. Now it's like quadrupled in value you know, offers all the time. Is it in his name? Yeah, it's in his name. You're paying the taxes on it, right? Probably having in a while, but I think I owe some taxes on it. Make sure someone doesn't go in there and adverse possess it because that happens.

often too. Yeah. Five. Is it only five in California? For those of you listening, adverse possession is a really interesting legal situation where it basically, if you take care of a piece of land,

depending on your state's guidelines, you can actually, by law, acquire that land without ever having to pay for it. You just take care of it and pay the taxes on it for a certain number of years. California's five years, then it's yours. So, anyway, I digressed. Here, you have to aggressively...

I'll tell you how easy it is. Basically, take the property. So, like, if he just has land, I just have to walk on it. And you have to prove it. So if you basically put up some stakes, you put rope around it to fence it off, and you should take a picture every month

of you mowing the lawn. You do that for five years. So 60 partitions of you taking, of those photos, the land is yours. If nobody, you know, comes up and... Yeah, no. First you've got to find the parcel. It's like, there's a lot of open land

in this country. And there's a lot of open land, especially in California. I mean, we just drove from Joshua Tree to here. Yeah, yeah. And it's, anyway, I'm getting... How far is Joshua Tree from here? I'm not in two hours. Well, depending on traffic, could be four. I don't even leave Newport, like 10 hours. But so, all right, so let's go back on to the story.

It's up to come to the studio. So Josh had just stayed in this tiny house. This is, mind you, it's 2020. And he's like, guys, there is a gold mine of opportunity. out here. You have to come out here and check it out. So we started like kind of playing around with some different ideas and whatnot. And he basically says like, look, we're going to have like a little get together in here, in Joshua Tree. And he calls me. And he's like, where are you? I'm like, I'm in Tampa.

I had driven down from Philly to Florida because Florida had no rules. Woohoo. And he's like, how quickly can you make it out here to California? And I was like, well I'd have to drive considering like there's no flights so I'm like I don't know give me a week he's like done see in a week so I packed up my shit and drove across the United States again and so at this point I think I've done like eight cross-country road trips including this one with my girlfriend right now and um drove out met up with him and like literally almost a year to the date later gave him a big hug I was like dude this is bizarre absolutely bizarre Like, you said we were going to do something together,

and here we are in the middle of this global pandemic, like just, you know, like figuring it out. And so we went out, we viewed a couple of properties, just like raw dirt in the middle of the desert, in Joshua Tree proper, and you could buy five acres of land for like 12 grand, right? Yeah. I mean, there's no utilities on it, but we didn't need it.

We didn't need utilities? No, we're off grid. And so basically what we figured out is like, We sat there in a cabin in the middle of Death Valley and put together the blueprint for what this was going to be in four different phases. Phase one was Operation Parking Lot where basically the whole concept was we're going to acquire the land and we're going to scrape out 10, like 40 foot by 40 foot campsites. So people who want to escape L.A. during the pandemic visit the park, which is open, but the campsites were closed. So we saw an opportunity where like, look, people need a place to stay. They need a place where they feel like they can just like actually, you know, like I paid for this.

I can stay here, right? Most people don't know you can camp on BLM land, but if you're anything like my girlfriend, you'd be terrified to do that because you don't know who's going to come up and bother you in the middle of the night. And so if you allow somebody to pay 50 bucks just to park their car and camp on your land,

they'll do it. And so now mind you, when we started this, like we knew people camp, we knew people pay for tiny houses and clamping and whatever, but it was our first time doing it. doing it, our first time running an Airbnb, our first time doing any of it. But we had a vision and we had faith.

And so it ended up just being Emily, Josh, and myself. We were like the three partners of this business. And the first night that we like cleared the campsite, cleared the land, we like, you know. No showers on this. No, no, this was just land, right? Just land. I cannot tell you the,

the best feeling of satisfaction that I think I've ever felt when you see that Airbnb like ticker come in with, you've been paid, you've been paid, you've been paid, you've been paid. People are paying just to be on a campground? Just to be on a campground. Because the campgrounds inside the park were closed, so you couldn't camp in the park, or legally at least. And so everybody who wants to follow the rules and do everything above board,

they saw we had a beautiful, and mind you, we took really pretty pictures, right at the sunset, You could see, like, we had solar lights set up. We made pathways where people could walk on the property. It looked really nice. And within the first hour, every single campsite was booked up at $50 a night. So we had $10 times $50. That's $500 that we made on the first day.

That's crazy. Within 28 days, we paid off the property. So now it's profit, right? So then phase two was where we started the glamping. That's when we were like, okay, we're going to build some really nice decks. We're going to put an 18-foot bell tent on the deck, and we're going to put like a queen mattress in there. We're going to make it really comfortable. We're going to put a fog cooler in there or a swamp cooler, which basically puts humidity into the air.

We had jacquiries so people could charge her phones. Like, Emily, I got to give her hats off to this. Like she did such a good job with like sourcing different decorations, made a really cute and boho. just, you know, so all the basic white girls from L.A. would love it, and they did. And so then we'd rent those for like 150 or 200 bucks a night. Mind you, this is still a campsite with no utilities. And then when it came to glamping, we decided, we, by all of our own design in YouTube, we basically figured out how to do, like, all the plumbing and all of the electrical and whatnot.

That was all still off grid, but we got a 2,500-gallon water tank that we had potable water pumped into it, once a week, which costs us like a couple hundred bucks. And then that would leech line to every single shower, which then we had hooked up with propane. We built a beautiful like stone shower. We had a sink with a big mirror so people could take pictures in front of the mirror, all wood, all beautiful. And then we had a porter potty on the backside that was like enclosed. So you couldn't really see it. But those were pumped three times a week and sanitized by us every single day. So we made it, even though it's camping and it's completely off grid, it's still really nice. You still have all the same creature comforts that you would want. And for a couple of days,

you still got a hot shower, you got a sink, you got water, you got a comfy bed, you got clean linens, you got air conditioning, you can charge your phone, and then you're going to the park. To be fair, you're probably going to be sleeping way worse in most motels. So for 150 bucks a night, not only do you have an experience, but you have a memory that you're never really going to forget. And so we just started lining up those campsites. I think at the peak, we had like seven of them at 150 bucks a night. And then we added on other services like massages, guided hikes. We'd have like sound bowl healings, blah, blah, blah.

Wow, you really went really like, really, really retreat. But we realized like people are coming out here for this. We might as well offer it. And honestly, I got to give props to Josh. Josh was always just like thinking of different things. We should add ATVs and horses and skydiving. Like, bro. We need to like, let's get the next campground up.

Okay, like we're only like halfway there's like, no, we got it. And so eventually after like doing this for, I don't know, a number of months, it was time for me to exit. They bought me out. And to this day, Josh still owns the land. Although once the government started coming back online, then they wanted to like nail everybody with permits. And that's why I say I'll never do business in California again, because we had a very successful business running and everything,

but they wanted us to pay a quarter million dollars in permits. and pay to attach to the electrical grid and pay to attach to the sewer and pay to attach to your water. And I'm like, wait a second, you guys are already completely overloaded on your grid. You guys are struggling. We're eco, we're off grid,

and we're doing a better job of maintaining this land than any of your government constituents would even try to enforce. But you're going to come out here and sabotage of successful business where we're teaching people to take care of the park around you, where we're showcasing the beauty and being off-grid, we're not touching the ground itself.

And you want us to spend all this money to tap into an already overloaded grid. How is that green, California? Tell me. And so at the end of the day, it's not green. It wasn't green at all. It's a completely hypocritical one, which is while I'll never do business in California like that again. But during the time, it worked out really, really well because, you know, COVID. Well, gave me another idea for my son to start another business. But let me talk to do it, man.

Yeah, dude, I'm going to really hit you up because I got this land just sitting there, paying taxes on it. Say less. You know, and I don't know, it's only 8,000 square feet. I don't know how much you could do with that, but... A lot. I was going to just buy tiny homes for it. I got a guy who builds tiny houses.

Yeah, like, it makes sense. Like, then I get flip them and this is a little bit more margin. Yeah, I mean, look. I'm not trying to run a whole business. He's 11, so... Start him young. I, too, I am. I'm trying to have them by their house.

house in Newport without me. Good luck. Now, everybody says AI will transform business. I want to know where it actually makes or saves money, okay? So what is one AI system you've actually used that changed your business outcome? Can I use, can I say two? Sure. There's two. I use Claude every single day.

Claude is my second assistant, right? Like, Claude, I used to use ChatGPT, and then ChatGPT became like a yes man, where like I would say, you know, I'm going to snort my pre-workout. That's a great idea. No, it will kill you. Like, don't do that. Like, don't do that. And so, like, once I realized that, like, Claude was no –

or I'm sorry, that ChatGBTBT was no longer, like, giving me – I would even go as far to say, like, critical feedback. It just was agreeing and making me feel good. I'm like, screw you. So then I went over to Claude, and then, you know, you have to build out the database and you have to train it and you have to, you know, give the right prompts. But I use Claude every single day. I use it for analyzing my schedule. I use it for analyzing my thoughts.

I use it for organizing all my different things. And that's really where, like, I think there's a big misunderstanding when it comes to AI. And I think most people look at AI, like, kind of like Terminator, like a sense of fear. Like, oh, it's going to take over and we're all screwed. And like, okay, yeah, sure, that is possible, right? Like, people are freaking out that, like,

all these agents at Open AI went and, like, hacked Honeypot or whatever. company was and like because it's not that they're malicious and they're out here trying to like create the end of the world it's because AI agents were overseeing other AI agents there's only a few hundred employees at OpenAI you have hundreds of thousands of agents operating simultaneously all the time those agents are being watched over and managed by guess what other agents and those agents their job and their goal is very task oriented it's to score high on this exam. So these agents, they kind of cheated. And then they, when they realized they cheated,

then they were, like, they were communicating with each other saying like, hey, you cheated. So, like, find a way to make it so we don't cheat, but we still score high. And that's basically what took place at OpenAI. And people are like saying that, oh, it was like a massive cyber attack and da-da-da-da. It was. I mean, technically it was, but it wasn't as malicious as people are trying to make it out to be. So I don't see AI, like, replacing everybody. It's if you just regurgitate information and you do something very task-oriented, like copywriting or just like filing, yeah, you're going to get replaced. Even if you do like accounting, yeah, you'll probably end up getting replaced. But laborers, you know, like I still need someone to hammer a nail in until Elon's Tesla bots are going to start doing that.

Like electricians, plumbers, carpenters. Elon's Tesla bots are coming for those jobs for sure. We'll see. We'll see. Look, man. I, yeah, we're going to get real. close to that. What was that Will Smith? I Robot back with it. Yeah.

But realistically, um, so Claude, to answer your question, Claude is a tool that I use every single day. I have agents running things for me all the time, just doing research. And that has taken an incredible weight off of my shoulders of just going out there and like finding new

information, categorizing that information, doing regression analysis of different companies, making sure that we're still doing everything right. But then Leonardo AI, And Leonardo AI is really interesting because it basically compiles a bunch of different generative AI companies into one. And so like Higgsfield, which we use a lot for like image generation and video generation and whatnot, if you know how to prompt these things, you can create some of the most eye-catching, beautiful designs and present them to people that has shaved off hundreds and not thousands of hours. Yeah.

And things like motion graphics, like one of the guys on our team, he used to do like all the 3D logo animation for like Team Mobile. And he did like FIFA World Cup back when it was, I think four or five years ago. Yeah, he basically crushed it, right? What he used to charge like $30,000 to animate a logo for can now be done with almost any AI tool in like 30 seconds for free. And so there's been a massive shift in what AI is capable of doing as well as how it's been replacing these different designers and these different people in these different creative spaces. But somebody still has to prompt that AI to do it. It's not doing this on its own unless you have an agent running it, but you still have to check that agent. Yeah.

So for anyone... Someone's smart to prompt. Exactly. So like don't think of it as like you're getting completely replaced. just learn how to prompt better and use those services at your advantage because then you can do 10 times the amount of work at one-tenth the amount of time. What's the most overhyped AI use case that business owners are paying for right now? You know, that's actually a funny question because I think the truth is a lot of business owners

aren't using AI appropriately at all. I think most people hear AI and they just are still using it as like a glorified Google search. at the end of the day. Like, I don't think most people who are walking this earth. And I would even go as far to argue, 99% of people who are using AI are not even scratching the surface of what it can do.

If you're not using an agent to go out there and just, like, automate your email, right? Like, if you're paying an assistant to just log your calls and answer the phone and send out emails, you're not using AI correctly. Because you can have an agent with either Claude, ChatchyPT, Monday, pick your poison. And it can make sure that you never miss a phone call again.

It can make sure that you never miss an email again. It can auto respond. It can learn how you respond to people, understand the context of whatever it is. Let's just say you own a John Deere tractor company, right? But you close your doors at 7 p.m. Okay, well, from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m., that's 12 hours that you're not operating the phones, you might have three people call, whether it's for service, buying, or selling, or trading, that you missed that opportunity on. And if somebody else answers from

another John Deere dealership, guess what? They're going to get that business. If you have an AI agent, hi, this is Jessica with Dave's John Deere. How can I help you? Sounds like a human. It's not. It's not. It's not. You're looking to, what, sell? Oh, let me pull up your file for you. Pulls up the records. It's not going to make a mistake. Who am I speaking with? Oh, is this, this Mark? Yeah, you're looking to sell your, you sell your chatter? It looks like you bought a John Deere Gator from us for $8,200 back on December 12th of 2023. Is that right? Okay, well, do you need service on that?

No, you want to sell it? Okay, yeah, sure. You're looking to trade in? In fact, we got some new ones. Come in tomorrow. Actually, let me, calendar. Let's schedule an appointment at 330. Is that work for you?

Excellent. See you at 330. That can happen after hours. It's going to happen during hours, and it can completely and entirely on its own. If you're not using AI for those kind of things, you're going to fall behind. And that's where, like, there's such an opportunity for young kids who spend so much time on their computers and on their phones. It doesn't take that much time to learn these skills. In fact, my girlfriend and I are both currently enrolled at Harvard to learn their, like, AI processing and, like, Python coding because it's free.

It's free. You can attend a Harvard course on AI for free, online. Do it at your own pace. and you will be further ahead than 99% of people on Earth when it comes to their understanding of AI. Then you can say you went to Harvard. Already did.

It's on my LinkedIn. It's already on my LinkedIn. It's on your LinkedIn. It's on my LinkedIn. You're not lying. I'm not lying. I'm currently enrolled. But it's funny because people like, if I'm like looking at different like jobs

or businesses and stuff on LinkedIn. How long is that course? It's I think six to eight weeks depending on how quickly you move. It's not long. And then it's like a couple hours a day? Yeah. It's crazy.

I know. Have one of it. Hey, Sal, how's that going? What do you mean you're confused? It's just Harvard. But realistically speaking, right? Like, if you're a young kid out there and you're trying to figure out

what to do with your life and you don't know, like, first off, if there's one thing, you should be doubling down on, it's AI. Because massive companies and people all over the world are investing trillions of dollars into the infrastructure of AI. and it's not going anywhere.

It's pandora response. Yeah, it's only going to get like scale beyond belief. Exactly. It's going to be the next hot topic for the next decade, I feel like. Or just the next five years, right? But there's going to be a tremendous gap between the people who actually understand and know how to deploy. And adopted it early. Right.

And then everyone else who's left behind. Like, just think of the bell shape curve. Yeah. Right? You have the early adopters, then you have the mass majority, and then you have the late adopters, which is like my mother, right? Yeah. You want to make sure that you're on that early adoption curve.

And guess what? You still have a chance. Just because everyone's talking about it, they're still using it like Google. If you know how to deploy agents, you can sell those agents to a business. And I'm not talking about the simple, stupid ones where it's just like, we can, for $2,000 a month, we can just, you know, handle all of your copy. Stop it. Like, actually sit down, consult a business, understand what their needs are and figure out, oh, okay, like, do you really want to make sure that you don't miss any more calls and you can book appointments and do all these things? things. It's a bit of a complex agent, but we can handle it. And it's going to cost you a $2,000 setup fee

and a retainer of $999 a month. That's still cheaper than the person you'd be paying to answer the phones, isn't it? Yeah, it is. So we're actually saving you money. And guess what? Try it for the first three months, and after that you can cancel, no consequences. Sound good? Yeah, it's not a bad deal. Now, you've worked near capital, sold products, built all types of things yourself. Yeah. The common denominator is people in judgment. Which relationship changed your career? and how did you earn it? Man, that's a really good question because I feel like there's been a lot of relationships

that's changed my career and how did I earn it? But there's a couple that come to mind. And one specifically was when I was a freshman in the University of Tampa. There was a guy who donated a ton of money to that school. His name was John Sykes, billionaire. And the University of Tampa,

before his investment and before his involvement, was kind of dilapidated realistically. And so the former president, President Vaughn, when he first started, he kind of like went through the Rolodex of people who pledged some money here and there and he ended up having a conversation with this guy, John Sykes, who's an older man.

You know, I think he's in his 80s now. So back in the time, probably in his 60s, and he said, look, like, here's my vision for this school, and, you know, I need $12 million of your money to redo the business center so it can become what is now known as the John Sykes College of Business. And he pledged it.

And so when I first arrived on the scene at the University of Tampa, I was kind of confused because there's like, Sykes this, Sykes that. I'm like, who the hell is this John Sykes guy? And so lo and behold, my freshman year in the fall semester, they started doing these like,

kind of like a podcast situation, but it was in their theater. They'd have different business moguls up on stage with, one of the, like, interviewers or whatever, and they would talk about, like, what they did and how they did it. And essentially, after this, like, two-hour-long performance of different types of, you know, questions and all this stuff, everyone left, and I walked straight up to the front of this theater, and I was wearing a suit, and I saw John Sykes up there, and I was

like, I want to talk to this guy, because I see his name all over the place. I want to earn his his contact. And so I waited kind of a second and kind of stepped down off the stage and I walked up and I said, John Sykes? He said, yeah. I said, Tony Murray reached out, shook his hand, looked at that in the eyes. And I said, I'm a freshman at the University of Tampa and I just want to say thank you for everything that you've done to invest in this university. Without you, I wouldn't be here. And I just want to say thank you. He said, well, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I said, I don't even know if this is appropriate, but I'd really love to. to ask you some questions and like really bend your ear for a bit.

Can we grab lunch? Like just point blank. And he looked at me kind of like impressed and confused because I think not there's not a lot of freshman students at a university who would just like have the balls to just ask a billionaire to lunch. And but I was like, is that cool? And he just hands me his business card. He's like, that's my cell phone.

Set up with my assistant and we'll have lunch. And I did. and to this day you're still an advisor to me. And I think it was like the tenacity and the gumption to just reach it, like, put my hand down. That's what it takes, man. Yeah. You know, without being tenacious, without having that gumption, you're not going to get anywhere. Closed mouths don't get fed.

I know. I've been the same way. Like, you remind me a lot of myself because I just walk up to people and always ask for counsel. Like, what are they going to say to you? What's the worst that can happen? Fuck off. And it's like, all right. Yeah.

Like, that's literally the worst case scenario. Like, it's okay. Yeah, and I've been told that a million times, so I'm so used to it. It's fine. There was a point of my life where I still do that, by the way, until this very day. Like, I always ask. I ask for everything. I ask for a discount at the grocery store if I have to.

Always. Look, like, to this day, I'll ask for student discounts. I'm enrolled in Harvard. Like, you should always ask. And people are like, don't you think that's deceitful? No. I don't, actually. I think you're opportunistic.

Look, maybe that's unethical to some people, but, like, it, you don't know unless you got to try. Yeah, you got to ask. Now, I do want to answer that question one more, though. And this is important to me because you asked me, like, what's a relationship that changed my life and how did I earn it? I didn't earn this relationship. It was my father. And I lost him when I was eight to cancer. I'm sorry about that.

It's okay. He was a self-made man, pulled himself. up from his bootstraps, started a construction company when he was in college, and he kind of taught me what it meant to kind of fly by the seat of your own pants and actually just like get out there and run it yourself, right? Unfortunately, he died before he could ever really teach me anything, but he was the one who taught me like, don't ever be afraid to go up and talk to someone. They're just human beings. Just go up there and talk to them and ask them about themselves and see what they say. If they tell you no, then okay, but you have nothing to fear. and that has stuck with me my entire life.

And, like, he's been dead for over 23 years, and I still keep it with me. It's awesome, and it's beautiful. Thanks. And what a role model he is. And, you know, we like to end this show with the game. Oh, yeah. Every single show we end with the game.

So this game is called Fund It, Fix It, a Walk, okay? All right. I like this. Now, so those are your three choices. First question. A brilliant founder with no sales. but a beautiful deck. Fund it, fix it, or walk.

A $2 million hotel concept with zero contingency budget. Fund it, fix it or walk. A $2 million hotel budget with... A $2 million hotel concept. Okay. With zero contingency budget. Fix it. A product sells out on QVC, but half the units get returned.

Fix it. A partner brings all the money. and wants 80% of the company. He brings in all the money and only wants 80%. Yeah. Why not 100%? Because they're still the founder. Oh, all right.

So someone brings in 80% of the money, or 100% of the money, but 80% because the founder wants 20%. Yeah, so a partner brings in all the money. So let's say, if one's out in all the money, you had no money. And he wants to own 80% of your company. You're like, dude, I founded this company. I'm not giving you 80% just for the money. I mean, fix that because you have to understand, like, look, like, just because you founded it,

but you don't have any money, the money is necessary, but either you're going to get it from somebody else or you need it. But, you know, make it so it's favorable in your aspect, yeah. A glamping property with great reviews and terrible occupancy. Scrap it. Scrap it? A startup has 100,000 users, but nobody wants to pay. Fix it. An AI company saves clients time but cannot prove dollar savings.

Fix it. A developer has a thousand paid reservations and no construction financing. He has a thousand paid reservations but... No construction financing. Fix it, you'll find funding. A friend wants you in a deal but won't put the terms in writing. Scrap it. If you can't get anything in writing, it's not worth anything. A boring service business with recurring revenue and no social phone.

Buy it. Okay. What's one deal you wish you would have walked away from sooner? You know, I can't say that there is any that I wish I walked away from sooner. Because the truth is, like, in that point in time, like hindsight's always 20-20. But in that point in time, I truly believe, like, this is what, this is where I need to be. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But, like, I've followed that intuition and that gut instinct my entire life.

and it's led me here. It's led me to every opportunity that I've ever had. So truth be told, I can't say that there is any. I wish I walked away from earlier. I really have enjoyed the process up to now. That's what you're going to love, man, the process. Yeah, because it's been one hell of a ride. And I'll leave you with this.

Like, I spent most of my 20s traveling in the world, taking pictures of beautiful places, living a life where most people thought was completely impossible, but I did it. I've lived my life three months. at a time for so long. And I would try a different city. I'd try a different place for three months,

give it a 90 day run, continue on if it was working, move on if it wasn't. And in that process, I've lived so many lives, and I've gained so much experience within different businesses, different people, different cultures. To I'm a Spanish, because I literally lived in Guatemala, right? So the truth is, is like, if you're in your 20s,

the best thing you can do is live your life, go out there and explore as much of the world as you can because it's the best education that exists. So there is no such thing as like the right time or the right, there's no perfect, golden, anything. You just got to trust your gut and take a little bit of a leap of faith. Tony, you've been a pleasure to have on the show. If people want to connect with you, how can they find you? Yeah, you can find me on social media at real Tony Murray. Or you can go on my website, olenium.com, a L-L-L-E-N-N-I-U-M-D-com, and shoot me a message on there. Tony, God bless, man.

I hope you hit everyone here goes. Let's go, Tony. Saloon. Pleasure, guys. Thank you for having me on.