Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - The Future of Architecture Is Carbon-Negative ft. Kevin Kennon | Coffeez with Joe Shalaby

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

In this episode of Coffeez for Closers, Joe sits down with architect and developer Kevin Kennon to talk about the future of building, carbon-negative design, and why architecture has to evolve with climate, technology, and humanity in mind.Kevin explains why the built environment is responsible for a major share of global greenhouse gas emissions, and how architects, developers, and builders are now being forced to rethink the way we design and construct the world around us.Through his work with Beyond Zero, Kevin is focused on developing wilderness hotels and resorts built around conservation, wellness, renewable materials, smaller footprints, and extreme respect for nature.The conversation also dives into AI, robotics, prefabricated construction, mass timber, greenwashing, regulatory red tape, the future of real estate development, and the role architects can play in solving major housing and environmental challenges.This episode is about more than buildings. It’s about responsibility, innovation, and designing spaces that make the world a little better than we found it.Hosted by Joseph ShalabyCoffeez for Closers PodcastAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We lived, we still do actually, you know, a few blocks from Ground Zero, the World Trade Center. Within about a week, my wife and I decided we would go down and take a look at the site. And what we saw was just complete bedlam, you know, people climbing fences and guys hawking World Trade Center of souvenirs. And, you know, I just thought there had to be a better way and more dignified way. So I developed a design and pitched it to the mayor. They thought it was great. And they said, with one condition, you've got to find the money to build it. And so we did.

And we built the temporary viewing platform at Ground Zero. Welcome to another episode of coffees. You know, it is truly, you know, beyond innovative. But please explain to the audience, what is carbon negative mean in building? And what do you do at, you know, just give us a 10,000 foot overview? Sure. Well, I think a lot of people might be surprised that over 40% of global greenhouse gases, that those emissions come from the built environment, some from buildings and cities.

And so many of us who are in the building industry have developed a sense of responsibility about that. And that goes beyond just making sure that we build buildings that do their best to minimize those greenhouse emissions, but also to build safely, to build lean and efficiently. And so there's just basically a whole movement out there of determined individuals who are changing the landscape of how we build. And it's an exciting thing to be a part of. Beautiful. Now, you know, you've been such a legend in architecture in general. What really drew you to architecture in the first place? What was it that really was the catalyst for it?

Well, my father was an architect. So I guess I grew up in that environment. And he was a great guy. He was very. And also ahead of his time in terms of designing buildings that were environmentally responsive. And so I guess I have that in me. And I grew up in just south of Los Angeles. And I think one of the first things that I loved about being in that environment was those crazy houses that were always built on the side of cliffs that they looked like they were barely being supported. And I thought

those things were so cool. So there was something about living on the edge, I guess, that drew me to explore architecture. And it's just continued to be a very fulfilling career ever since. Now, when did you start Beyond Zero? Recently. Beyond Zero is actually a real estate development company, and we specialize in wilderness hotels and resorts. And when you build anything in extreme environments,

You have to build with nature. You can't just come in there and bulldoze things because conservation is a big part of what we do. I see. So you're still, you still have your normal architecture firm that does the big sky. That's right. Yeah, I have a separate firm. I wear lots of hats. That's part of my daily existence.

Yeah, so I have a separate firm that just does architecture. and I have another firm that just does real estate development, which is beyond zero. Now, what do you think the future looks like with, you know, with the strategy, your building strategy now to decarbonize current builds? What does that future look like? What motivated you to decarbonize and create, you know, a healthier building? Well, yeah, so first of all, what's really exciting, is there are so many incredible tech-oriented, green technology-oriented startups and companies out there.

They're doing incredible things. So, you know, in a way, the horses left the barn, the genie's out of the bottle. You know, people are doing this. And I spend a great deal of my time connecting with all of these innovative. types of companies and some of them you really should get on your show because they're doing incredible things. And that, so our world is changing and it's going to change rapidly, I think, especially with AI already, but certainly with robotics in terms of how we build and how we build in extreme

environments. You mentioned something and that's obviously a very hot topic. Will robotics completely change the way you're building right now? When do you think robotics will be implemented in decarbonization building strategies? It already is. I mean, so robots aren't just simply, you know, the little animated men, you know, they're everywhere. They're already in all of our machinery and manufacturing. And so the trend that we're going to see more and more is that building,

are going to be built, almost like Legos, they're individual pieces that are manufactured in controlled environments, in factories, and they're standardized, and then ship to the site and assembled. Some of them, you know, entire components, like if you're doing hotels, you might have an entire room that's actually shipped on a flatbed and then kind of plugged in to those environments. And so, so that's, that's, that's a, that's, That's already happening and it's only going to continue to accelerate because the cost to build is still prohibitively high. And that's something that all of us are concerned about. So, you know, in residential housing, that's considered manufactured housing.

Yes. I mean, that people call it manufactured housing. I'm simply saying that less in terms of. of prefabricated homes and think more in terms of standardized components of buildings that are, you know, built offsite and then delivered to the site and installed. And so the less time that you have on site itself, that's where a lot of the expense comes in. That's where a lot of the headaches come in. Also, it's a safety issue as well. We want to design safely. So that, you know, That type of production is going to change, and I think rapidly change what we do.

You know, there's so many theories about mitigating the cost to build. One of them, and I saw this, and I don't know how viable it is, 3D printing building soon or 3D printing houses. I'm talking about that as an option, and it's been done, but I don't know what kind of standards they are. you know, people are looking for so many solutions to solve the housing crisis because cost of building is astronomical. Labor wages have also like tripled and, you know, imports are just getting more expensive. Lumber is just through the roof. I mean, everything just tripled.

And there's just not enough houses for people. Yeah. Does what you do solve for the housing dilemma or it's just purely, you know, a commercial endeavor? You know, specifically we're trying to push the envelope on how you build in extreme environments. I mean, wilderness environments, you're talking about, you know, edges of cliffs and, you know, Rocky beaches and, you know, in far-flung places all over the world. But the way in which we do it has a lot of real-world applications to helping solve what is a huge problem, which is housing and the affordability of housing. So anything that we can do to start to revisit, you know, how we make things.

and how we can do things more efficiently and safely. I think all of that goes into ultimately how we're actually going to solve a problem of, you know, how do we take care of ourselves? Now, if you were to look back at all the projects that you've done, you know, is there one project or a moment that you,

that truly puts you on the map where you're at now? Something that really catapulted you to this level of notoriety that you have now in this space. Yeah, I've been fortunate to design very complex buildings all over the world, you know, skyscrapers, et cetera. But the one project that completely changed my life was right after 9-11, we lived, you know, we still do, actually, you know, a few blocks from ground zero. the World Trade Center. And within about a week, my wife and I decided we would go down and take a look at the site.

And what we saw was just complete bedlam, you know, people climbing fences and guys hawking World Trade Center of souvenirs. And, you know, I just thought there had to be a better way and more dignified way. So I developed a design and pitched it to the mayor. They thought it was great. And they said, with one condition, you've got to find the money. And so we did and we built the temporary viewing platform at Ground Zero. You know, I kind of conjoled a local scaffolding company to sort of put it together at cost.

And it was all made of, you know, plywood and, you know, prosaic New York City scaffolding components. And it was, it was an amazing experience and, you know, one of the most fulfilled. things I've done and more than likely we'll ever do. Wow, so that so that was one of the original viewing sites of ground zero, huh? Yeah. Before they built the buildings there. Yeah, it was actually a deputy mayor had the idea of like where to locate it, which was really terrific. It was right next to St. Paul's Chapel, which is a corner of the World Trade Center complex that was remarkably unscathed. And behind it was a cemetery. cemetery with about 300 foot tall

sycamore trees there and we located adjacent to that and so it was an elevated platform so you kind of ascended up to the about 25 feet up in the air and you couldn't hear a thing

it was incredibly and almost eerily silent you could just look over and see the devastation and at the same time you heard the kind of rustling of the trees adjacent to you. So it was a very profound thing to do. And it was remarkable, I think, in terms of having that emotional impact and being able to understand

the power of humility and humanity in the face of power. What a remarkable experience. And that really transcends way beyond your architecture fulfillment, right? The irony is I'm doing exactly the same thing in terms of how we're building these hotels. It's very similar in terms of

how it's put together and we're using a lot of wood mass timber and cross-laminated timber to build these. So it's everything I found in my life, everything I've done, to some degree I've already done

and just kind of redo it over again, and it changes in different environments. It's like, it's an amazing, an incredibly fulfilling enterprise. Now, I have to ask, you know, you're in one of the most competitive industries. It's a very brutal industry. Yeah. Pretty cutthroat.

Now, being in an industry that's, So hyper competitive and there's only a few renowned architects and there's so many people trying to be a brand in architecture. What's a myth or what's something they don't tell you about the climb in that industry? About the client? The client, if you don't have a healthy relationship with your client, you're not going to get anything done and you're not going to succeed. So you have to be able to, you know, the way I like to talk about it is that, you know, I feel like what I'm able to do is tell a client's story in terms of building. And sometimes that means a lot of listening, which architects don't do.

very well, frankly. And at the same time, a lot of recalibrating. You know, you have to be able to sometimes tell your client that that particular idea, you know, if we really pursued it, it may not work. But you have to do it in a way that's generally a part of a great conversation. And ideally, it's a great experience for everybody.

And it's difficult to do. It's a perilous journey for a lot of people, a lot of money at stake. And it's extremely risky. At the beginning, you're starting with nothing. And you hope you're going to be able to get to, you know, someplace where everybody's satisfied. But if you don't pay attention and bring the client into the process, you know, you're making a big mistake. Now, how did you rise to that level of notoriety in your space? What was it that, you know, allowed you to rise to, you know, above everybody else?

Well, one of the things, and this is another myth, you know, if people, a lot of people get their ideas about architects from reading the fountainhead or seeing movies like the brutalist. And typically the image of the architect is a kind of loner who doesn't listen to people and goes off and does their thing and it's their way or the highway. But in reality, architecture is a very social activity. You collaborate a lot with, and you put together a team of experts. You know, I work with the best engineers in the world, other architects, you know, interior architects, landscape architects. And that's really what we do.

And I guess I'm, I think I'm particularly good at working well with others and guiding them and leading them. And, you know, I like to say I'm a conductor of a symphony of experts. I was just going to use that same exact analogy. I was like going to say you're a conductor in a symphony then. And that's really how the architects shine is how well can they get everybody to collaborate. That's right. That's right. To create a masterpiece.

Yeah. Didn't look at it like that, but you know, this is why I love this show. I always learn a lot. Now let's talk about your pivot to beyond zero because, you know, that's obviously your focus now. That's where your passion lies. And frankly, that's kind of like the hottest. staying in building right now anyways is building you know the way you're doing it now what was the turning point that made you say you know I got to do this business well yeah I think the pandemic

was a big part of it um you know when you get you're under lockdown and in New York we got hit pretty bad with that and you're you're you're still working you know remotely but you know you have a little bit more time just to think. And I kept going back to my youth. You know, I grew up in Palisbury's to south of L.A. And we lived right on the ocean, you know, kind of a cliff. And I think, you know, the thing about living in California in particular, you know, you're always faced with the power of nature.

If you live on that sort of edge or, you know, either it's floods or fire or landslides or, you know, what have you. You know, you're dealing with some pretty significant forces of nature. And I grew up in that milieu, and I spent a lot of time outdoors, and hiking, surfing, skiing, and going all over California, which itself is just incredible. And I'm very fortunate to have done that. So I guess it just kind of came back.

I started thinking more and more about that. And then I was asked by a major country in Middle East to evaluate a hotel in an area that was not dissimilar to Monument Valley in the U.S. and they wanted to put a 500-room hotel on the top of a beautiful mesa with nothing else around it, just incredible landscape. And I masked it out for them and did a feasibility study, and then I told them they were crazy. They didn't like that idea, but I did think it was an actually really interesting thing to pursue, but on a much smaller scale that would be more appropriate for. the beauty of the site.

Now let me ask you, there's a lot of misconceptions about this decarbonization movement in architecture now. What do you think the biggest misconception is with decarbonization in architecture right now? You know, I think there's a lot of what we call greenwashing, you know, or kind of bean county where you're, there's something called lead. and it's an organization that essentially assigns points for if you do X, Y, and Z you get so many points, and we add up all those points. You either get a lead silver or gold or platinum.

And I don't think that's really enough. I mean, I think people should really look at everything they do in terms of the best efficiency of that site and what its impact is going to be, not just in terms of, of can I, you know, lower my greenhouse emissions, but also what am I doing with the local community? How are you giving back to it? How am I impacting the land itself? And am I conserving? You know, what are, so taking a sort of longer view about the impact of what we do. And, you know, and then imbuing that sense of responsibility on everyone. And, and I find, and I find, in my career when you know everybody has a stake in the enterprise of putting something together

and developing pride and what they do you just get a better outcome i i really want everyone to feel like they built the building not me that you know so i love that now you know what um we're hearing We're hearing so much right now about sustainable buildings and eco-designs, but beyond zero takes it further than that. How are you actually making buildings carbon negative? Well, we start with, I would say we'd start from a conservation first, you know, sort of nature first approach. So we, right now, all the different hats that I have to put. put on, you know, one of them is evaluating land. Most of the land we're looking at are our ranches in the southwest.

We're talking about 1,500 acres plus. So they're, you know, big sites. And we try to create as small a footprint of the building as possible. So letting the rest of the site just be conserved the way it is. So I think that's a big part of the approach. And then in terms of how we build, we want to make sure we build with renewable materials and that we do as little as we can to disturb the conditions of our environment. It's not easy.

It's not easy. I'm not here to proclaim that we're going to be masters of everything we do, but at least going into it, that's our proposition. Gotcha. Now, and you're foreseeing like this process is going to get much easier with AI robotics. Absolutely. Also with, I mean, just, you know, the current political party is also trying to really expand on building guidelines. Yeah.

mitigating a lot of the red tape that you're dealing with in construction, solve for, oh my gosh, the endless issues that the red tape is causing. The added bureaucracy has made it a nightmare to build driving costs up. How have you been dealing with that in your industry now? And what are your hopes for the future under the current political party? Well, you know, as a real estate developer, you take on a lot of risk and risk is inherent in time. So the more time that it takes to do anything,

the riskier it gets. And the unfortunate part is that what we call the entitlement process and other people call it regulatory. But that entitlement process and managing that is probably one of the hares things that you have to do because it's so much of it is unknown you know um there's there's strategies for how to do that and fortunately i've been involved in a lot of projects that that people have done that very well um but you know it's it's investment in um in that and process so anything that we can do and i you know i i've been hearing a lot of this from you know both sides of the

the aisle so to speak um that that, that regulatory part of it, which was, you know, I think it was originally paved in good intentions, but has really, unfortunately, become an impediment to building anything that that has got to change. Yeah, I mean, all legislation and, you know, all these regulators are all paid with good intentions. Yeah. But they're just government workers that have no idea of what the heck you do. Yeah. And they add red tape without the proper research, and then they make your job a nightmare.

Yeah. And then now we have to get new political influence just to reverse what they just did. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, New York is notorious for that as well. It's gotten better. I mean, there's, there's, excuse me, some streamlining. but you know you're still dealing with human beings and and bureaucracy and you know

that just that's where a lot of that red tape can kind of fall out so you know ideally we start to understand that they're and this is where I think architects can play a huge role you know because you know we we have the training a lot of training and we have a lot of the liability on these projects. We should be able to self-certify that we're in compliance with the code and and not have to go through panels of architecture review boards and, you know, which I find a lot of it is kind of pointless and a huge waste of time and money and resources, but yeah, I think that if you were, you're able to basically come in and say,

you know, here I am, I'm licensed here, I can, I do this, I follow the rules and regulations, and I certify that we're compliant, we would save a lot of times. Now, what do you think are the real blockers for you right now with scaling and, and being able to, you know, kind of grow this negative carbon? architectural platform. Well, you know, we certainly, you know, we're losing some incentives that were there before. But again, I don't see that as a huge impediment to what we're doing

because we're really partnering with innovative companies to do that. So we're just driven mainly by tech, frankly, and, you know, and accessing tech and using, you know, these are these are luxuries. resorts and they're sort of all built around regeneration and wellness. They're really about, you know, people coming to our, one of our hotels and, you know, regenerating, resetting in an incredible environment of pristine beauty.

I mean, that's really what we're trying to achieve. And, you know, how you get there, I think, is really is all part of, it's all part of what we do. And I don't know, it seems to me that once you start to focus on that, everything else sort of falls in place. And so, you know, what had been looking at, oh, well, you know, we're kind of an environment where there might be some of the incentives, the economic incentives that were there before, for, you know, say, installing solar and or geothermal, which is something we're very interested in. It kind of goes by the wayside because people are already doing it, and there's terrific companies out there. that have invested in it and they're not going to stop. Now, what do you think you're most excited about right now about the intersection of design,

tech, and climate? Like, what excites you most about this huge intersection? The fact that it's becoming just part of, and not to overuse this term, but part of our whole ecosystem, it's embedded into what we do. I think what's interesting for me, and I use AI a lot in what I do.

And I find it to be very liberating. And now I have the benefit of almost 40 years of experience where I understand is producing BS, and I can interrogate it and get it back on track. But I think more and more people are going to start to use it in that way it's going to be, extremely liberating for what we're able to do. And I think it's going to create efficiencies that we're only now just beginning to realize.

Inefficiencies and a lot of innovation. See, that's the part of the story that people miss. The negative side is, oh, we're going to lose all our jobs, et cetera. No, we're going to create a lot of new jobs and new markets and, new types of companies that, you know, we can't even begin to imagine right now. So I'm very, so far, you know, with, you know, with certain guardrails put into AI, but I'm very pro-AI. Yeah, I mean, what you, what you described is basically everyone's hesitation, but the reality is, you know, markets will find a way. Yeah.

We're going to continue to expand and use these tools to benefit mankind. Right. And it is kind of it's exciting to see all these changes happen so rapidly and how fast our society is going to progress. Yeah. With, you know, with the big concerns with like global warming and all the issues, environmental issues and all these things that now we're solving for on the developmentals, on the real estate developmental side that never were factored in ever. Yeah. Ever. Right.

And that's the thing. It's so easy to do. You can keep inputting more and more parameters and it just gets better. And for me, as somebody who's always been acutely aware of the practical side of what we do, you know, making sure that we can design really cutting edge architecture, but get a built. You know, realize it. And that, in order to do that, you have to be able to, you have to be able to. to think about every aspect of that design all the way through construction realization, all the way to, you know, when the first guest opens the door, and then, you know, writes a great review when more people come and then it's a living environment. Now, a couple last questions I have for you. this one's about your legacy.

What legacy do you want to leave behind with your company Beyond Zero, not just as a designer, but as the actual founder? Wow. You know, I guess a lot a lot of people, I think, and certainly some architects, I know, go into architecture

because, oh, I'm going to build something, it's going to be there forever. And, you know, that's, that's going to be my, my legacy. I don't think of architecture that way. You know, my legacy, I hope, is that is somebody who's more interested in humanity and making the world just a lot. little bit better than when I left it. I think if that's what people remember me by, that's for me. That would be extremely satisfying. Now, what's a personal goal that you have

for yourself, a business goal that you have for your business and a family goal you have for your family? Well, I're going to reverse that. I, you know, I'm a dad first. So I, my, I have two great kids and they're both in college right now and so i'm very excited for their next chapter and their life um any architects what's that any third generation architects uh i don't think so i don't think so we'll see you know uh you know they they're they they kind of strike me as being more academics um but uh we'll see you never know um And if they do, that's great. You know, it's not anything that I necessarily, you know, proselytize.

But, and in terms of my, you know, business goals right now, you know, I really am excited about this journey that I'm on. When I talk to my investors, I talk to the talk, and, you know, real estate is a different kind of investment. investment because you're investing typically for the long term. It's not like buying stocks. And so, you know, I always tell people who are investing with us that, you know, for real estate, you have to imagine yourself living there or staying there or going to work there. If you can't do that, just walk away. You know, if you can't project, you know, that's something you want to do.

And for Beyond Zero, you know, we're really looking for our future guests, you know, people who really would want that kind of experience, who want to be in the wilderness, who love nature, and love nature when it's great and you want to be outdoors, but also love it when, you know, you want to hunker down and sit by fire and talk to your friends. And so, you know, so that's, that is for me the goal of the business. I didn't, I didn't, I'm not really doing it to make money. I'm really doing it because I think that type of experience is something that I would want very much in my life. And I think there are other people out there who share that sense of adventure and, you know, want to dream big.

And your personal goal? My personal goal is every day, you know, to hopefully make someone in my, very day a very much day thing. And every day I woke up and I said, you know, I hope I make somebody I encounter in my daily going about their lives a little bit better. That's it. you know that's what it's about my last question for you you're doing so much in terms of really creating your business to be of service to mankind and there's a lot of honor in that and i am a deep belief that you know you do god's work he always does your work and i really feel like what you're doing with what with your passion project not having to probably even work

at this stage in your life, but being so concerned about the future, it's going to have such a prolific impact for generations. With that said, when you're in front of the Philly Gates, what do you think God's going to tell you? Well, I hope it's God, first of the long. And, yeah, I, you know, I hope that he looks at the, you know, nobody's perfect. I, I would be the first submit it, but he looks at the, or she, you know, looks at the, you know, my overall life and and says, you know, you did okay. Kevin, you've been a blessing I have on the show. I hope you have every single one of your goals, keep crushing. I want you to build so many skyscrapers in the future and help so many people just get out of this crazy carbon buildings that we have now.

Yeah. People want to connect with you. How can they find you? Well, the easiest way is you Google me. There's only one, Kevin Kennan, K-E-V-I-N-N-N-N-O-N. And from there, you know, you can find me all over the place. The other easy place to get me is on LinkedIn. Kevin, it's been a pleasure. We'll drop some stuff here in the notes. God bless.

Keep doing what you're doing. It's been an absolute blessing to have you on the show.