Collector Nation - The New Card Shop Model: Inside Bleeker Trading’s Community, Experience, and Entertainment

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

In this episode of Collector Nation, Ryan Alford sits down with Matt Winkelried to explore how modern card shops are evolving beyond traditional retail. Matt shares his journey from rediscovering the hobby after years away to becoming CEO of one of the most recognizable shops in the space. Along the way, he breaks down how Bleecker Trading has built its brand around community, experience, and customer engagement. This conversation highlights where the hobby is heading—from the rise of Pokémon and alternative assets to the growing importance of in-person experiences in an increasingly digital world. 🔑 Topics Covered The evolution of modern card shops Community-first business models in the hobby Pokémon vs sports card trends Events, trade nights, and experiential retail Cards as entertainment vs investment Industry shifts: Fanatics, Topps, and the future 🤝 Connect with Matt Winkelried https://www.instagram.com/bleekertrading https://www.instagram.com/mattwinkelried 🤝 Connect with Ryan Alford https://thecollectornation.com https://www.instagram.com/ryanalford

I always say sports cards are like stocks, Pokemon and TCG cards are like commodities. Charzar can't get a DUI. Charzark can't tear its ACL. I don't say we can't compete, but we're not trying to compete on price. We're not trying to be overpriced or underpriced. We're just trying to, hey, run a business.

Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, you take you inside a hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Allford. Card shops have changed a lot. It's not just display cases and inventory anymore. The best ones now are part retail, part content, part community. Matt Winkle-Reed, the CEO of Bleaker Trading,

has built one of the most recognized shops in the hobby that does just that. So today, we're getting into what actually looks like, what that looks like, from collecting to running a shop and everything in between. Matt, welcome to collect your nation. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me, guys. Hey, good to have you, brother. From hobby shop owner to hobby shop owner now. I mean,

this is an order for you, by the way. Yeah, I appreciate that. I know, I didn't, you know, I didn't set out for that necessarily to happen. It was like, oh, when I was 25, I'm going to own a hobby shop. But it's happened, and now I own one. And so it's cool. I appreciate that, man.

By the way, same thing. 25. if you had told me that I was going to own a hobby shop in my 30, but you're crazy. Exactly. I like, really? Because I collected growing up, you know, but I really put it on the shelf. You know, some people put it on the shelf. I put it like behind the Christmas sweaters, behind the kid photos and the swimming ribbons when I was 12 or whatever, all that shit.

We don't look. It was way in the back of the closet. I had to really dust that stuff off. My boys were late getting into it. So I didn't know if they'd ever come back and I just kind of. My, I had the sad story of my collection got thrown out. Oh, no. I got to, all right, we'll start there.

What happened? I mean, my parents redid our basement and then my cards went missing. Oh, geez. I mean, it's one of those days, like, who knew this was going to happen, right? Exactly. But I mean, I got, you know, when I was, I was a big collector when I was a kid, right? And obviously, as you grow up and, you know, fads come and go, you get to high school, you know, you get new hobbies. You change hobbies.

And, you know, I took a 15 year break from the hobby. And it wasn't until I moved back to New York in 2023 that, you know, I got bored. I was investing. I was doing work. And, you know, I really needed another hobby, right? golf couldn't sustain me all year around in New York. So my younger sibling who lives in Manhattan was like, hey, because I said I was, maybe I should get back into collecting cards.

They were like, hey, you should go check out this shop in the Westville. It's called Bleaker Trading. And I was like, all right. So I took the one train up, three stops, went into Bleaker Trading. Mike, my current GM of the shop, sold me my first hobby box. I remember it was brilliant stars, Pokemon Brilliant Star. I was, you know, I'm a Charzart collector. So obviously for the Charzart.

He sold me my first booster box in 15 years, felt instantly in love with the shop and the vibe of the shop. I went back the next day. And the next day. You got hooked. I got hooked. Because you know what? It's so interesting, you know, being away from it for 15 years, you've, you forget

certain things about it, right? Like the nuance is like how intimidating it can be, right? Especially after this long period. of absence and then you get reintroduced to it. And I think what ultimately got me hooked again wasn't just opening the product. It was going to the shop and having that community, having that vibe, having that, you know, that one-on-one interaction with Mike and the staff. And, you know, I got instantly hooked, hooked back into it.

Ultimately, to the point where I said to myself, I was like, what's going on here? What's going on in this industry that I applied for a retail job just to do diligence? So I started working the register, right? To, you know, this snowball effect happened, you know, became head of operations, a bleaker to where the founder of the company said, hey, do you want to buy the business from me, right? Because we wanted to grow. We wanted to keep going.

And I said, absolutely, I do. And here we are. That's awesome, man. That's a, I mean, that's the rekindling story, you know, one box, rip, from ripping to flipping. It's like, ripping it own in the business. I know. Flip it,

flip it, own it. It's just, it's been so exciting and it's been, it's been such an amazing time in the hobby. You know, I think I got in at the right time. But like also,

it does, it's not just, you know, the, the financial aspect of it, but like it has given me a really great purpose, right? It's not just about moving product.

It's about engaging with customers all the way from 10 years old to 40 year olds, right? Like talking about cards and it's a dream come true. And I've always in every industry I've worked in and invested in, it's always aligned with my passions, right? And those passions have a common theme. It's kid focus, right? Because I never want to grow up.

I always wanted to be a kid even as an adult. But I've been very fortunate to, you know, to stumble upon this amazing place, an amazing brand with an amazing community and have been accepted, right? And it's been, it's been quite a journey. Man, I do think I get your opinion on this. I think if you got to, you gotta love cards and love like rip it and like to own a card shop.

And if you, you could do it for the business, yes, but if you don't like cards and collecting on some level, I don't know. I don't know if it works as well. Because you're not going to be able to relate and talk like, I can talk to anybody that walks in now, you know, two and a half years back into it, like, really back into it.

Yeah. So, I mean, I remember everything I already knew, and now I know all the new shit. And, you know, like, no one rips more packs than me and my boys at home. Yeah. And so, like, it's authentic interest. And then it's a business now. So I have to take it serious and all that. But I don't know.

I can't imagine not actually being into it. And I do know there are some card shop owners that could care less about it. I think it's a very disjointed, I mean, like, I think it's with any industry, right? If your heart's not in it, you're going to, your final result or the final product that you're providing, it's going to be reflected in that, right? Yeah. Like, you have to know what you're talking about. You have to relate to it. And being that we are a community customer-facing industry, shop, operation, or whatever, you have to be able to.

to share that passion with them, right? Or else they're not going to convert into customers, right? You know, one thing we always, let's talk about that a little bit, right? Like one thing that we at Bleaker always say is we're not a card shop. We're a hospitality business. So everyone that walks in, whether you're buying a hobby box or a retail pack or a single or a squish mottos pack, like it doesn't matter. Like you have to provide that service, that customer service, that hospitality, that feeling

of welcoming. in order for them to, one, want to come back to your shop, but two, want to get involved in the hobby, right? So I think, like, across all industries, you have to want it. You got to want to love it. And you got to have the knowledge behind it. So, yeah, I think, like, that final product of what you're providing them is definitely going to be reflected if your heart's not in it. I think the best stores today, and I really like what you just said, Matt. I mean, I think when I started collector station, I said the same thing.

Like, I didn't want a 10 by 10, you know, strip mall. Like, I mean, you've got the iconic New York City and in the whole, the hub of, you've got sort of surroundings like built in that make your shop, you know, world famous, world known because of some of the city. And then everything you've done with it. Here, like, I could, you know, I could go to strip mall, you know, whatever. No, I bought a building with it in mind. where I was like, this has got to be an experiential store.

Yeah. So we call it a, you know, we're not a retail shop. We're a hobby shop. We're an experiential hobby destination. Yeah. That's what we're trying to meet. I mean, we're two months in, but I think that's what we're building towards because we're selling experience because we can't, I don't say we can't compete, but we're

not trying to compete on price. We're not trying to be overpriced or underpriced. We're just trying to, hey, run a business. But we're trying to make it to where you, this is where you'll, want to come. Like you want to spend time here. And we have space for you to spend time. And it feels like a sports bar meets a man cave meets a cool hangout spot where you can

also buy packs and rip and hang out with friends. And so I think if you aren't leaning into that experience now, you kind of get easily forgotten. There's a there's a notion or a philosophy that we try to embrace at bleaker trading. it's no longer just a retail space, right? It's a third place, right? A lot of retailers are trying to navigate and master that. I think it's extremely important that you position yourselves as not just a shop, right? And you're already doing it, right?

You are a third space. You are a third place. And that is so important because you want those people to come, whether they're going to buy something or not. Exactly. We have the luxury in our industry to have people keep coming, whether they want to trade with each other, right? Whether it's at a bleaker trading trade night or a bleaker card show, which we have on the first Saturday of every month. Whether they buy something or not is great. Obviously, you want them to do that eventually.

But they know they can come, do trades at our place, and go home. But also engage with other collectors, hang out with the staff, you know, talk about what they just pull, talk about upcoming releases, what they like about the hobby. what they hate about the hobby, what keeps them up at night about the hobby. It's not just getting them in there to buy and leave. It's getting them in there to buy, but also buy into the brand, buy into what we're doing, buy into the community and become lifelong collectors. Because at the end of the day, it's not just a hobby. It's also an alternative investment asset class, right?

Like for some people, but for other people, it's a hobby. And that's great. Is Matt, on the business side for Bleeker, I mean, and share, or adult chair, I'm not getting into numbers, but I mean, you're obviously in a high rent district. You know, high and all that. What are the business lanes for Bleaker? Obviously, you're selling wax and you're selling singles. I mean, is that the majority of it or you've got other events?

You've got other things. I'm just curious on the business side for Bleaker. So we've, so right now our primary verticals are just our retail, right? So we're selling wax. We're selling singles. all of our events are free, right? Our trade nights are all free. Our bleaker card show, free, right?

We always want to put the community first in the sense of, you know, we want them to come to our events, feel like they don't have to, you know, pull out of their pockets to get in the door, right? You never know who's going to show up. So we, as of right now, our philosophy is our events are for everybody. Yeah. Right. It's one of those things where everything is on the table, of course, for the future, whether it's e-commerce, breaking, you know, events space rent out for, you know, we have art gallery shows. We've had Hulu events. We've had food tasting events, right? That's all on the table. But in terms of our core product of events, all free. Yeah. That's, that's, that's awesome that you can keep it that way, especially for you. I know what that area is. is people not even appreciate, you know, the reality to have a free event and in the district that you're in alone is a big leap. But it just shows you the community that you're trying to build.

I know people, whether they appreciate or not, maybe they should listen to this. So they do. I mean, I hope so, right? In the day, I mean, Ron, you've been to a lot of card shows, right? You know how overwhelming that can be, right? Yeah. 300 to 500 tables. That's, especially for someone that has needed.

never been to a card show before. So the ethos of the bleaker card show to create a card show that was, you know, that was approachable for those that have never been to a card show before, but also experiential for the veteran, right? We always have great dealers that come. We have our space in the back, the backyard, our lounge, and our 94 space. We can have 25 to 30 dealers there. So you get, you can wet your whistle, you can get that appetite, you can make those deals happen. But also, as a new collector, it's approachable. And that's it. Right?

It's one of those things where we wanted to be approachable. Talk to me about like merch and other things. I mean, does that sell pretty well for you guys? Well, you know. I know. I mean, I didn't get a hat for this episode or I would have it on. But you know, Matt, you're still tired. I would have sent you one.

I know, Bill, we're going to have to work that out. I'll be rocking that thing every day. Look, merch, like I said, everything's on the table i don't want to reveal too much right now we've got some great things in the works right now as of right now our hat speaks for itself right it's more recognizable hats in the hobby and uh we've had we've been lucky to have a lot of athletes wear it we've had a lot of collectors wearing it you know we were at the fanat we were at fanatics fast last year and i feel like i saw every uh every fifth person was wearing a bleaker trading hat right yep i know i didn't ever pick

one up but i was there i'm like i'm like i'm all right next time and become ones on me. Is, how many, do y'all do the national shows? Do y'all do Fanatics Fest? I mean, you all show both of those? Yeah, so, you know, we've showed up at Fanatics Fest since Fanatics Fest, one. Yeah. We've got some really exciting stuff coming for Fanatics Fest three.

National. We don't have, we don't typically have a booth at National, but we've got something very interesting in the works for this year, this upcoming national. Oh. all these secrets, Matt. We don't want to break them on, you know, one of the number one shows in the hobby. I don't want to speak before, you know, before the dream comes true. Okay, all right.

We're still, ink's not dried or set. Incs not dry. I get it. I get it. Well, I'll be at both, though, so we'll have to get up. We have a pretty big presence at the National, actually. I mean, it's a great show, right? The National is an amazing show.

and, you know, Fanatics Fest is also an amazing show, right? They're two very different experiences. Very different. I do want you to talk about that, Matt, like, because, you know, as we're talking about the stores becoming more experiential and less transactional, I mean, obviously, there's transactions taking place, big transactions, but the experiential, it is quite the difference of those two shows and shows in general, historically, you know, it's a lot of tables and you go there and the cards the hero, and it should be.

But Fanatics Fest is a different thing, but I think it introduces some interesting concepts with experience at the show, blended. And I want to get kind of your takeover all in that. I think with Fanatics Fest, if you go, right, you can find a little bit of everything, right? If you're going just for cards, that's there. if you're going for cards and the experience of getting introduced to different funnels of sports it's for the fan right it's for the the sports fan and i think cards has become a vessel for fandom right in terms of what athletes you like to follow what teams you follow right you can

capture a bigger customer pool for sports fandom into collectibles right um so i feel you get a little bit more at a fanatics fest when you go versus going to the national. It's very card focused. And that's great. But I think there's, there comes a time when you think about exposing new people to the hobby. How do you do that? Right. Especially if they're, if they're fans of basketball, football, soccer, hockey, you name it. Right. You don't really know how to enter the funnel at the national. If I was a fan of sports, but I didn't know anything about cards. And I go to the National, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

The largest fire hose in the world. Right. But for Fanatics Fest, you can get introduced to cards, the collectibles, to tops, to, you know, different card shops, hobby shops, breakers, all that stuff. Like, that's all the experience has now taken the forefront in terms of also collecting, right? Where you got your pack? Where you get your card?

Where, you know, who are you opening with? I think that's a big part of it. of it because people are yearning for that human-to-human contact, especially in such a digital world. Yep. I do think it's an interesting thing as we've moved more and more digital. The hobby is really a great outlet with which to sort of, I don't want to say fight against that trend because I believe that these two worlds can change and the hobby can actually come a long way to actually interact, bringing some of the digital.

digital components and the connectivity that is that technology allows. I think we have some room to grow there. Yeah. But the interpersonal and getting together, and I love those just said, like, who you rip with matters. Like, and like versus just going home and sit in your closet alone. Right. Like, that's an interesting insight.

Are you ripping? Did you say closet? Are you ripping in your closet? I'm not. No. No. not me i've always got look i've always got four extra rippers like right by my side four boys you need a sleep you need a guy top log you got to help open pack right like exactly yeah but i you know

of course i've got my few that i sneak in once everybody's asleep but right you know i think the technology piece it's like technology is a tool right especially in this hobby it hasn't taken over It's become, it's more of a tool for people to understand the valuations of their cards, understand like marketplaces and things like that. But when it comes to the human to human element of collecting, technology can't really ever replace that. Yeah, 100%. What's been your biggest surprise as a store owner in the hobby? Like, what's something that maybe you didn't expect? Or were you that prepared?

That's a really good question. I think I always had this instinct that this wasn't a fad. Yeah. But what surprised me was how fast that realization came as the store owner, right? I think people have, let's just put our business hats on for a second here. The stock market, for example, is, you know, all-time highs as of today, right? it's extremely expensive to invest in the stock market. This has become an alternative asset class for people to want to invest in,

to hold long term, right, or to flip, you know, daily, like whatever you're, whatever floats your boat, all cool. But I think people have really bought into the notion the upside of this, And that's really cool to see and how fast that has happened. Yeah. I just can't believe that we can't keep seal Pokemon on the shelf. It's like and I mean, everything's, everything's moves, but it's crazy.

There's ebbs and flows, right? Like the, you know, valuations go up and down, right? I always say to a new parent that walks in with their kid and their kid, and their kid wants to get involved. They're like, he doesn't know where he or she doesn't know where they want to start. We always say, I always say sports cards are like stocks, Pokemon and TCG cards are like commodities, right? Charzar can't get a DUI. Charzart can't tear its ACL, right?

Charzard can't, you know, throw a bad, you know, get pulled in the birthday like Paulsian did in the opening day, right? Like there's these little things that you can communicate to these customers to kind of give them a general sense of where to start and where to begin. It's amazing to see what the Pokemon market has done. And as an IP, it's a really strong IP and it's here forever, right? It started when I was a kid. And I still have it, right? My first edition, right?

That's a lifelong hold. And I think, where am I trying to go with this? It's become really amazing to not only see the diverse people getting into the hobby, but also seeing people that only collect sports cards, now exploring of alternative categories, right? Because whether it's someone ripped a really cool box in the shop and they're like, oh, I want to, I remember collecting Pokemon as a kid.

I want to get into that. Or, you know, saying, hey, I want to get out of sports and transition into Pokemon. Where do I start? How's been, how's the mix been for you guys? And like when you have trade nights, what's the blend of sports versus Pokemon? How do those communities interact? It's a really great question. When it first started, like when we, when I first owned it, or at least 2024, when I first

started at Bleaker, let's start there. Those that were into sports cards only brought sports cards. Those that were into Pokemon cards only brought Pokemon cards. I now see people's cases have a mixture of both. Yeah. Which is really cool. Whether they're ripping for certain cards or they're collecting only Mue 2, only charge aren't only squirrel, whatever, right?

It's, it's been a very healthy, diverse collection that I, collections that I see. And it's awesome to see that. Do your sales sort of reflected too, like the ping ponging of both? Yeah, I would say like we definitely do more T, slightly more TCG. It's very close. It's probably like 5545 in terms of TCG versus sports. But it ebbs and flows, right? It's one of those things where, you know,

Pokemon does four to six releases a year, right? Sports, there's way more. I think just also depending on the product that comes out, it ebbs and flows, but historically it's 55-45, probably. That's about where we are.

Almost exactly. I'm curious. Where are you guys at? We're almost exactly there. You're there. Tetering towards 60, 40 right now. Yeah. I think football season starts, you know, like, It's big football.

I mean, South Carolina's big football. We don't have a professional baseball team. Right. I mean, I'm a Braves fan, and, you know, we're near Atlanta, but it's not really an MLB state. Right. And North Carolina doesn't have a team. Right. It's more football, football, basketball, as far as sports go.

So we see that pick back up when football seats. And I know because, you know, we started probably because it was still in football season when we first open, right, towards Super Bowl time. And it was probably 60-40 sports. But right now it's probably 60-40 Pokemon. Right. I mean, like, it's, again, perfect order just came out. Yep. Topps Chrome football just came out.

So this is an interesting time to see how those levels could potentially change just this month alone, right? Exactly. me how do um speaking of tops i mean they kind of own the world now and i don't i don't really care like i don't i don't have a dog in that fine i mean now as a shop owner it's like you know we sell products and you know working our allocations and doing anything like that but like i don't necessarily have a dog in the fight of the brand stuff but i mean a part of me is a little sad to see some of the i know pinini's still going to make stuff but unlicensed stuff.

Yeah. I just wish they could just figure out a deal to buy it so we'd have all of it licensed, you know, like, and maybe that'll still happen. Maybe cooler heads will prevail long term, but I mean, any perspective on the tops versus Panini and all the license changes? I think it's still early to really give my pulse on it. Obviously, you want optionality. Yeah.

In the marketplace. I mean, I love the downtowns. I love downtowns. I think they're a really cool insert, really great case hit. It's sad to see that that has happened. But, you know, there's opportunity for a really bright future, depending on how Tops executes this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love downtowns and kibooms.

Right. Yeah, it's like, you know, Tops is going to make some cool cards. I will say the kaiju insert that they just, that's going to come out. It is really cool. Really excited to see how that looks in real life. I want to get my hands on one. But I think ultimately, you know, I always say in New York, there's optionality for different pizza. There's optionality for different restaurants.

You want to have that optionality. But it's just too early to say. I think it's, let's just see what they do. And I'm really excited about Topps Chrome football. I'm really excited about Bowman basketball coming. I got to be at Topps Industry Conference and what they showed us was really fascinating and really exciting for the hobby. Ultimately, the end of the day, this industry is growing, right? And we should all be focused on how to keep people engaged in the funnel, how to keep them involved in the hobby.

And how do we make sure that people are getting value? How are they experiencing the hobby? So there's like all these different things. So long as the industry is moving forward in a healthy way, I'm good. Yeah. I well said. And I think that's back to where I don't really care. I mean, like what what the brands are necessarily as long as they're doing right.

The only thing that's kind of alarming that I hope is not like a tell is like, you know, tops came out with very reasonable retail pricing, you know, and both basketball and football. Mm-hmm. But the nature of. where we're at, uh, it's all like four or five X'd from what was reasonable. Like,

you know, megabox is now 150 bucks. You know, uh, a retail blaster box is, you know, supposed to be 40 is now 100, you know.

Can I flip it to you? Like, do you think that's a byproduct of the big box retailers, not limiting purchases for people? Like from a scout perspective, like, I'm curious your thoughts on that, right?

Like you can walk into any target and you can get as many blasts as you want. Well, not here. Not there. You only get two. So they have limited you. That's great. They've limited only two. And it came.

I mean, Kmart. Ageing myself. Denmark's been closed for 30 years. Walmart is five. Yeah. And look, two years ago,

like when we first got back into it, the boys, I got four boys. I'm not trying to go in there and scalp. I'm trying to go in there and buy a case of boxes because we're going to rip that weekend. and there's four of us. I mean, five of us, including me.

So I could buy as much as I want, 18 months two years ago. Now, though, they've handcuffed it. Like, for the last six or eight months, at least in South Carolina. Yeah. You can't walk out with more than two or five at Walmart two at Target. And they are actually enforcing it. Yeah. That's great.

I think it's great. So at least in here, like the top product pricing is not dictated because people are, you know, scalping or buying all of it at target of Walmart. That's not impacting, I think, the tops probably now. What I fear, though, is because they're now the only license holder. Yeah. There's a little bit of this.

It's been even launching a product. Yeah. They are seemingly coming out with non-licensed stuff, I think. Yeah. It hasn't been well communicated, but it looks like they are. Yeah. And so that's kind of like, eh, people are like wait and see on that if they're going to buy it.

and so I think you have this well what's tops actually going to how many products they can come out with like kind of like a little bit of the fomo yeah I think it's it's all about product diversification in terms of the different skews that they come out with right in order to ensure there's affordable price points they may have to look into potentially making a retail skew that doesn't guarantee that that doesn't have a chance for the superfactor right at the same time that like it's hard they have an interesting conundrum on their hands in how they want to dictate entry-level products to be available for the young collector, for the newcomer to the hobby, right? At the end of the day, a $150 megabox that doesn't feel great sometimes.

That's what hobby boxes and baseball are. Right. So I think, like, ultimately, again, it's one of those wait and sees, right? because they just got all the licensing, like there's going to be some retooling and so long as Tops does a good job of putting the collector first. Yeah, and I don't even fault Tops.

I mean, I was actually applauded the fact that their retail prices were very reasonable. Yeah. But markets just already, you know, kind of come up. And I mean, look, you're right. I think it's a wait thing.

We're here at the first Tops football product. It's going to have demand. And I'm here for it. I'm good. The only reason I don't like it is because the last thing you just said is the affordability factor for young collectors. But I also say, and you make a good point, I say this too, like, not everyone can afford a Lamborghini. And we don't cry about the fact that, you know, people can't afford a Lamborghini.

No, they go, well, you can afford a Honda, and that's what you should drive. Right. And so people want to be able to go in and get stuff that has the potential of a million-dollar card, and they want to buy it for 20 bucks. Well, I'm sorry. That's just not reality, you know? Yeah, but at the same time, so Tops came out with those new collector's kits, right?

Yep. We saw someone open one in shop and they pulled a Wembe Auto, like a five, almost five-figure card. So in that product alone, which is an intro starting product, the chance is there, right? It's one of those things where you as a young collector, And we do this all the time.

When kids come into the shop, they come in with their allowance money, they have $20 to spend. They want to spend everything. We say, hey, why don't you buy one pack for $5, keep, or buy two packs for $10? You keep the other 10. Then you have something to come in next time you come in, right? It's also on the shops to educate those newcomers to the hobby, right? Don't throw all your eggs in one basket. Let's get a taste for it.

learn, right? And then keep slowly coming back. It's one of those things where you don't have to spend all your money right now. It's one of those things where you can spend some of your money right now and then save the $10 for something else. Yep. And what I do and what I'm trying to do, like, I'm trying to market rip and packs. It's, you're buying entertainment that you happen to get cards with. Like, it's an entertainment.

Like, especially if you're hanging out with your buddies or hanging out here. Don't be wrong, I just real money. And you can call it gambling if you want. to, but I just think it's entertainment. Yeah. So we sell entertainment, Ripin packs entertainment. Selling singles, now that's building a collection. You know, that's smart collecting.

Yeah. But Ribbon packs is really an entertainment thing. Like, you don't go to the movies and watch the movies and then go, well, why didn't I get to take home time cruise? You know, like, well, you paid for that entertainment. And there's inherent value to everything you open, right? Whether it's a base card or. A case hit, depending on your collection and depending on what you're trying to get out of the hobby, I think if it's got value to you, then we've done our jobs, right?

Yes. It's not just about the chase. It's about, you know, if you want a Jackson Dart card, but you pull a Jackson Dart base card out of a pack, like that's a win, right? Like that if you pull a Charzart EX out of a pack, hey, you like Charzart. You can add that to your Charzart collection. It might only be $10 or it might not be a 2K card. But I think ultimately it's the archetype of the collector that is coming in. You can foster that concept of even when you're ripping a pack

and you get a base card of a player or a team that you like, that's a win. 100%. Yeah. Like I'm a Clemson grad, Trevor Lawrence. We have, I won't admit how big my collection is. You're going to have to come down to my store, man. I got a secret passage to my office where my PC is displayed in my man cave. That's cool.

You can hit the buttons. I'll give you the combination to hit. It opens the door. And, yeah, but more Trevor Lawrence. But to this day, if I get to Josh Allen, who is my favorite player or Trevor Lawrence, I don't care if it's based or not. I'm sticking over to the side, like, you know, because that's what I collect. You collect you.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's how it should be. That's, and that's awesome, right? And you can say to yourself, I'm building every Trevor Lawrence car known ever. Or that I pull myself out of a pack or whatever, right? Right.

Like, you can, you can, the entertainment part of it is either ripping, ripping for it or going to hunt for the single, which is also a great aspect of our shop, because, you can, you can, you can, you can, the entertainment part of it is either ripping, or going to hunt for our shop, because because. shop because you've been in our shop, you've seen our singles bins there, right, from $1 to $30, going through the NFL bin and being like, I don't, I've never seen this Trevor Lawrence insert before. Three bucks, boom, done, right? Like, hunting for the card is also a game and experience in of itself. Exactly. There's so many tenants that I love for my kids because they learn business, you know, like

the trading aspect and learn how to talk to adults at card shows. Like, yeah. There's so many upsides to it, I think. You know, some people weigh in on the, you know, the negative parts. But I think for the most part, though, people are seeing it for what it is. It's a great pastime. It's a great way for people to learn. And especially if you're flipping or doing deals and stuff, it's a great way for kids to communicate.

The amount of 10-year-old that are little business people now, it's insane. And I think it's a great way to get kids and to interact with each other, right? to understand what's a fair trade versus not a fair trade, right? Like, you want to foster those values. Yeah. As a hobby shop owner, at least in my four walls, I want to make sure everyone feels like there's a fair, safe space for them to trade, and they're not going to get taken advantage of.

Yeah, 100%. Matt, I know you've got a few things you can't talk about as we close out here. Anything you can talk about with the future of Bleaker, and, you know, where things are going the rest of this year? Like I said, everything's on the table. E-commerce. So those that want the obliqueer experience, but don't live in Manhattan, it's coming your way. There we go.

E-com City. Yep. Well, I'm coming to pick up my hat in person. I'm not ordering it online. I'll have it ready for you. We got to figure out some way to collab. I don't know what it is. We're going to figure it out.

We should maybe host your podcast in New York at the shop. That's what we need. There it is. I love it. Maybe we do that over with Fanatics Fest week or shit. I might just make a special trip. Something to where it's not so crazy, maybe. I don't know.

Let's do it. Matt, drop some deets on yourself, social deeds for bleaker, all that stuff. At bleaker trading for Instagram. At Matt Winkle-Reed on Instagram. Happy to be here. Matt, it's been a pleasure, man. great start to build a relationship. I hope we can do a lot of fun things together.

I love what you're doing with Bleaker. It's a great brand. It's in good hands. And you got my support, baby. Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Hey, guys.

You know what to find us? Thecollectornation.com. You'll find the full episode highlight clips. Anything and everything related to Collector Nation. We're here to support you in the hobby. And we do it by bringing you the best, the brightest. Bleaker trading, unbelievable shop. Get to New York and see it.

You'll thank me for it. I'm telling you. It's an experience unto itself. And Matt's a great guy. He'll take care of you there. We'll take care of you next time here on Collaternation. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.