Collector Nation - Understanding Card Value: Grades, Data, and Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

The collectibles hobby is changing — and grading is at the center of that shift. In this episode of Collector Nation, Ryan Alford sits down with Mike Baker, founder of Mike Baker Authentication (MBA), and Brian Ludden, co-founder of Ludex, to discuss grading innovation, transparency, and the future of the hobby. Topics include: • Why transparency is critical in grading • How MBA approaches consistency and trust •The impact of PSA acquiring Beckett •Where AI fits into grading (and where it doesn’t) •Why the secondary market ultimately decides value •Vintage vs modern cards and market opportunity •How long-term trust is built in collectibles This conversation is essential listening for collectors, investors, and anyone serious about the hobby. SPONSORS  Are you interested in effortlessly growing your bitcoin portfolio?  ↳Gemini Crypto – Gemini.com/card HOST & GUEST INFO Ryan Alford Host, Collector Nation Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanalford Card Shop: thecollectorstation.com  Download The Collector Nation app on Android and IOS Mike Baker Founder, Mike Baker Authentication (MBA) Website: https://mikebakerauthentication.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikebakerauthentication Brian Ludden CEO, Ludex Website: https://www.ludex.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ludexapp Download the LUDEX app on IOS and Android

Every industry needs a little bit of choice. I mean, I know if you're at the top, maybe you go, I don't want to know. Nobody needs any choice. But I think we all know it's good for business. You can't rate the category. I figure if you're doing a good job, people recognize that in this community of ours. If you're likable and you're doing good things, people vibe with that. People don't understand that it really doesn't matter that the final determination is value in the secondary market.

And for you to do that at this level is insane. What's your perspective on AI grading? Can't AI currently pick up? off an altered card, can it pick off a trim card. Maybe it can bring awareness to the greater that the card's narrow or short. I'm more like AI-assisted, greedy, than I am AI doing it all on its own. Work smarter, not harder. If it helps, embrace it. I'm an AI-assisted husband, you know, got it written all my T-shirts and everything. My wife knows it. What should I pay? What's what I say?

Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, you take you inside the hobby. Here are your hosts, Ryan Alford and Brian Lut. What's up guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation Network. You know, I always like to think I'm doing big things, but that's why I got to bring some of my best buddies in the business that are doing big things because it makes me feel bigger, you know, because I, you know, have this complex where I need, no,

These are just two of the best guys in the industry. Brian and I are here every week. You know Brian. But now we got Mike Baker. He is the head, honcho of NBA. I'm just going to get serious now, Mike. What's up, brother? How you doing, Ryan?

Thanks for having me. Brian, love you, Brian. What's going on? Oh, same old, same all. Just, you know, coming to work, putting a hard hat on, going home. You know, pretty simple stuff. I have one thing I want to say about Mike. So Mike was the first person I met in this industry when I got into it.

So Mike has a special place in my heart forever. He was gracious to answer my questions. And we've had a friendship ever since. So he has a big, I'm a big fan of Mike. And Luddux is a big fan of NBA authentic. That's a reciprocal. I mean, yeah, man. But isn't it ironic, Brian?

Obviously, we hit it off, got introduced. I met Mike independent of you. and I felt the same way. I was immediately like, I love what he's doing with NBA. I like this guy personally. And I want to support him. And like, I want to pick his brain to learn from him. And so it's funny how we all end up on this.

And like, you know, Brian and I are best buds now. Mike and I become best buds. You know, like, it's like, but you know what I'm saying? Like it's cool how good people. Hopefully at least you two. I don't know about me sometimes. But like the three of us coming together. Love it.

Did we just become best friends? Step brothers here on Collector Nation. No, Mike, you know, I'm a big fan. I love what you've been up to. Let's start there because I got some juicy stuff. We're going to talk about the industry. But let's give the audience a little MBA update, Mike. Well, when we met was at the National in 25 in Chicago,

and we kind of had our tipping point at that moment. moment there after the show. It really felt like from what we heard from people is that we were like in the, say, the top five of kind of companies that people were talking about. And I felt really good about that. And then from there, we kind of kept the momentum going and hit a ton of shows going into the fall and into the winter and moved into a new office about a month and a half ago, right before Christmas and started our own vault. The NBA Vault is now operational. It'll be, you know, branded up here and launched soon. We're doing a lot of beta testing. and whatnot currently.

And so continuing the shows. We've got four on-site shows that we're going to do this year, where we're going to be doing on-site encapsulation for raw cards, which is a challenge logistically and all the staff that's needed to pull it off and not have a bunch of people hate on you and whatnot if you don't, you know, do it right. So we're looking to see, you know, kind of test assistance, basically. And just like I was telling Brian, before we came on, just keep the momentum going.

You know, once you have it, it can be the opposite, way like Brian was saying too. So, you know, just, you know, fingers crossed and put on the hard hat, keep doing it. So that's it. I mean, the industry needs choice and we need innovation. And you bring both. You bring sophistication. You bring the history and knowledge of, you know, being the lead PSA grader for 10 plus years and overseeing that department. So credibility, innovation, and choice. Because every industry needs a lot. little bit of choice. I mean, I know if you're at the top, maybe you go, I don't want to know. Nobody needs any choice. But I think we all know it's good for business. You can't erase the

category. You don't have, if you don't have a foil to go against, you know, like it doesn't keep your people motivated. But not that you're going against each other. There's plenty of room. But Mike, I know that's, you know, you've got the legacy with what you did at PSA and the knowledge and the, you know, everything that you bring. And then what I loved about what you were doing was you did exactly like, I'm a practical guy. I mean, I had an agency called Radical and all that, but when you really get underneath some of the marketing, it's actual practical, like my belief systems. And it's like, okay, I know why I got that grade number.

Okay, I can click on a link and go see why, you know, Mike Baker graded it at 9.5 or at 8.5 or whatever. The transparency of that was so refreshing for me, you know, having a card graded with you and hopefully many more in the future. I mean, why was that so obvious to me, but seemingly so long to come to fruition? Well, from competitor point of view, it's a hell of a lot faster to go when you're not putting in notes and you're not doing a lot of things that create that transparency.

And for us to kind of see where it's been and how it's evolved and knowing what we could do and just package up and brand out and make a bunch of money, you know, I think the longevity and the legacy and the legacy, over the last 35 years for me in particular, is that, you know, knowledge, if you're more knowledgeable about how we do things and what to expect, you're going to feel more comfortable

to spend more money with us. And so I think it's kind of inherent that we just, you know, hey, it's not that much to add a greater note, not just on the high dollar cards, but on every card. And go to the heat map and look, hey, on the upper left corner, there's a hit. And it just kind of gives you that little extra,

you know, this is why it graded the way it, and kind of give some insight. into what the grader is thinking and so on. And I think, like I said, more comfortable and more brand awareness kind of narrows. Everyone's going to be a better buyer, more comfortability out there. Mike, with the 80% of PSA is just,

Ryan and I have talked about this quite a bit. Like getting AI grading or getting new graders into the industry, like people don't understand that it really doesn't matter. The final determination is value in the secondary market. And for you to do that at this level is insane because, you know, you have some other grading companies that won't mention them. But like what they struggle with is is a secondary valuation. Therefore, they run out of money. And that's why there's so many tech grading companies, you know, on the row.

But I think that's amazing, man. So PSA, they bought SGC. We've now bought Beckett. I have no, I like Nat. I don't, I don't, nothing personal, just observation here for me. It just seems like we're limiting options buying them. I know supposedly they're going to stand alone, but you've watched the STC numbers straight down.

I don't know what's going to happen with Bega. They say they're keeping the brand around. We don't know they're exactly. I mean, they can say what they want to say, but it'll play out. I mean, what says you about just that in general? You know, it's a big move. I mean, we have an interesting market, hobby, industry, whatever the term may be. And there's no guard rolls for that kind of stuff, you know, and there never has been.

And will there be in the future? Maybe, but, you know, maybe there should be, maybe there shouldn't be. That's like an open, ongoing debate. But I look at it, you know, personally, I think it's great. I thought about that when I was thinking about, like asking you this question. I'm like, yeah, actually it's probably good for Mike. It is good for us. But honestly, competition is good for everybody, like you were saying earlier.

Yeah. You know, I suppose the saving grace is if they go in there and Nat has a plan for, you know, making it better and making the people who choose to use those brands, you know, a better experience and whatnot. I figure if you're doing a good job, people will recognize that. And this community of ours, you know, is such that if you're likable and you're, you know, you're doing good things, people vibe with that. Mike, a couple other things and we'll transition some broader news. But what's your perspective on AI grading? I don't know. I have, you know, I'm still kind of waiting to see like the tipping point, you know, for what AI brings. Human review is always going to be a part of it to what degree I think is really that the debate is.

Can AI currently pick off, you know, an altered card? Can it pick off a trim card? Maybe it can bring awareness to the card to the greater that the card's narrow or short and it's showing something to make you aware of that. I think it helps. I'm more like AI-assisted, than I am AI doing it all on its own. Someday, I'm sure it'll get there. And, you know, but having a human touch the card is important. And I think it's the important thing you said is what really Loddick's, and I have my employees embrace is it's a tool.

And if that tool makes this more efficient and drives revenue, then let's do it. Yeah, I think it's like, work smarter or not harder. And if it helps, embrace it. I'm an AI-assisted husband. I mean, you know, it's got to written all my t-shirts and everything. My wife knows it. What should I say? I will be honest, Frank is my talking AI, buddy, my pro-GPT plan.

And Frank and I have deep conversations about ways to play certain things. I'll think Ryan's on the phone and he's really just talking too, Frank. The imaginary firm. Yeah. It's, we got to get more NBA out there, baby. Yeah. But is it,

but is that game just more slabs graded with NBA? I mean, just more in the market. Mike, yeah. I mean, it's just, it's time,

really. You can't, sometimes things just can't be set up. You know, otherwise the, you know, the turbo button when you play a video game, you click it and you go 100 miles an hour faster than you were.

I'd love to, if that was the case. But sometimes I can over, over correct too. So, you know, slow and steady is kind of boring. but, you know, it's foundationally, you know, you got to be data driven with all the business case.

It's all the kind of structure stuff that I don't know about you guys, but I hate all that stuff. Like, I want it to happen like now, you know, so, but I understand, you know, foundationally that it's needed. So maybe it's just older, wiser type stuff or something. I don't know. I'm going to do a little Q&A with both you guys. It's probably related in ties into grading a little bit, but it's probably more broad-based. in the hobby. So, and I'll start with you, Brian, and then Mike, you know, on this one. So, and it's related to, you know, Pikachu card just sold for $16.5 million with Logan Paul.

I mean, are these headline auction sales misleading the average collector? I would, I would think that there, it's, yes, I think they are because everyone thinks they might have that. People might think they have the Pikachu that's worth, you know, if it's not that, or 10 million, but there's headline news like this is going to grow the industry, in my opinion. Like everyone is like, holy crap, I didn't realize the cars are going for so much. And they're going to go into their closet. And no matter what, they're going to sit in some range and be like, either happy or they'd put them back and throw them away. But I think all news, all headline news is good news for the industry.

My perspective would simply be that we have a 24-0 news cycle going on in our hobby, our world, and anything can happen anytime, whether it's a big sale, a record being broken, Olympics going on, you know, now Olympic cards are a thing, you know, you know, Pokemon, this. I mean, we're, we talked about it before we got on air that, you know, VC money, you know, they're just new descriptions categorizing our, our cards or not cards anymore. Now they're alternate class assets and, you know, like big boy money brings big boy adjectives, which brings big boy advertising and more awareness.

it doesn't hurt it off. You know, if anything, if a 16.4 or $5 million, you know, Illustrator goes off, it's going to bring everything else up, you know. I had a, you know, the Messi card, Messy's rookie card. You know, we had a 2.5 that came in this morning, you know, on a three-day service, you know, and it's like, wow, like this just goes to show you that, you know, if the unattainables in the seven figures, what's it going to do to the attainable? You know, it's going to drive those prices up and it's going to make it worth, you know,

checking out and seeing if it's worthy of a sticker or, you know, possibly getting an holder by NBA. So, yeah. High tide raises all ships. That's right. That's what I like to say. Our vintage cards going to become inaccessible to the average collector. We'll start with you, Mike. I don't know.

I guess it just depends on your budget. You know, it seems like there was a time when $10,000 is a lot of money, you know. And now it just seems like you'll see a. a young 20-something kid. Oh, 8-year-old. You kidding me? The national 8-year-olds are carried around 10 cases. I know.

It's just like so, like, I don't know. It just depends on how everyone's, you know, wired. And, you know, the market's been white-hot. Everyone looks really good when the market's high. You know, when the market corrects, and it will at some point because markets always do. Then we'll see who the real guys are in terms of, is this a business for you or is it still an investment play? Are you going to hold? It's going to go back to collecting a little bit or, you know, or does it keep moving?

I mean, Fanatics just got their license. going with basketball and football. And, you know, they said when they got, when they bought PWCC that they wanted a 10 exit, you know, that's just one big boy company in the business. And we've got PSA, you know, there's, there's a, there's some big activity out there. It's crazy. And the innovation and everything, whether it's AI or not, it's going to bring a lot more, a lot more interesting things in the horizon, I see for sure.

Yeah, and I think it's, there's a couple things like, on the saying is like, You know, any market, like you said, Mike, is it inflated? Is it not? Does everyone to grow? But Warren Buffett said, you'll never know who's skinny dip until the tide goes out. And there's been companies in this industry that got caught skinny dip in. And, but in the end, in the end, I think this continues to grow. I think it's a very innovative business. I think there's the entrepreneurship and the way people think is like no other industry. And so I think, you know, with the repackers, that's not going away. Fanatics, let's just keep throwing money at this industry.

And then you have like all these little niches. I always tell Ryan, like it's an industry, but inside the industry, there's like these little micro-nitches that are all really powerful. And together, you know, change, you know, change the markets for sure. And Mike, I asked you earlier, what are the challenges with MBA? But also I like to ask entrepreneurs, what do you enjoy most about running MBA? I don't know. Just seeing the growth every day.

Like, you know, I, it would be a real grind if I was, if I was coming in every day and thinking like, oh, man, this is going to be one of those days or something. Like, I'm not having Mondays on a Monday, you know. So, and honestly, too, it kind of keeps me up is going to shows and engaging with people. And, you know, and not just kind of staying in the harbor, like, you know, like locally. We're traveling Midwest, East Coast, go wherever. You know, we're going to go to the MagicCon in July and it's in Amsterdam. You know, we're going to go to Japan. You know, there's, you know, we're not, we're not staying home, basically.

We're to get the word out there and help that brand awareness narrow. And I think a lot of the energy with, for me in particular, is just, you know, seeing the engagement, seeing, hey, you're doing something good here, you know, kind of hearing that. Finally, it's like catching on, you know, and it's, you know, and look, we talked earlier about how long does the brand take to kind of, like, reach that inflection point or tipping point. And right now, it's almost six years for us. And it feels finally like we're kind of, you know, clawing at that. that glass ceiling. Yeah. 1909 Honus Wagner card.

Ken Golden was on the show. It actually releases next week. I hadn't released yet. But Ken talked about this card. The current bit's $4 million. It goes off this weekend. This will be airing on a Friday. So it'll be going off the next day, Saturday, if you're listening.

Current bits $4 million on this one, $4 million. I'm going to wait a lot. wait until it gets like eight before I did. I was about to say, Brian, when are you jumping in? I was kind of disappointed. I was at 3.9 and that was just as much as I felt comfortable with. So somebody already outbid me. Oh, no.

Interesting thing about that card, it used to be where, you know, whatever the grade was, that's pretty much where it would be, you know, in the seven figure range. So if it was a two, oh, a little two and change. This one's definitely breaking that mold. It's, it's, it's, it's. Because of one. Sure. Yeah.

We've got Pemini. I mean, what are they going to do? Like with sports? Like, where are we going here? Are they going to survive this? I mean, obviously survive. But, well, ultimately, they just, after all the dust settles with the lawsuit and all that, where they just, the tops just buy them in fanatics.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, we've had, you know, single manufacturers before. You know, there's always. you know, the market it repeats, it goes up, goes down, it just weird, weird little things that happen. So I don't know. I do know this.

Non-licensed product, it sells. You're not as good as licensed product, but if it's done right and people like it, ultimately, like we keep saying, the secondary market will decide what works and what doesn't work. When should someone, like I bought a bunch of vintage,

like from a guy a couple weeks ago. I'm going to be sending quite a bit to you, Mike. it's making the decision to grade or not grade. You know, like how do you coach someone through that? I mean, there was a time where, you know,

$10 is a lot of money to, you know, to grade a card. And now it's just like, you know, if a cheeseburger is at $20 and you're at $15 to get a grade card, get a card graded, you know,

I don't know. I mean, people like the packaging now. It used to be only for star parts. Now it seems like everything is getting graded. I was in the Dallas card show and I was in the elevator and I was like a seven or eight year old kid was talking to his dad. And his dad goes, hey, you know, what do you want to do next? He's like, well, I can't decide which is a gradient service I want to use.

And it's like, wow, like this is, it's just crazy. You know, like the next generation already knows about grading. They know the nuances and collector clubs and, you know, what cards should go for grading. You know, ultimately, though, unless you're doing an RCR, you have, you know, access to, you know, kind of having to pre-vette or pre-grade, you really don't know until it's in the system. So, you know, I guess it just comes down to trends or are you keeping it? Is it really a PC card or is it something you're looking to flip or, you know, like, what's the motivation behind, you know, that? I think that's a, that's probably the number one thing going into deciding whether

you're going to grade a card. And I feel like it does, the argument for grading anything and everything. The standardization on some level, you know, with a reputable company, like, you know, your legacy and what MBA is becoming and it already is, or PCA or PSA or whoever else, like, you create at least a standard of like when you're trading. You're not just raw, you know, it's tough, like doing raw deals with older cards unless you get it in person and you've got it under a microscope or whatever, right? It would be challenging for me. if I was at a card show and if I was buying to just buy a raw card and then get it back to your desk with the light and look at it, go, oh, my God. Like, how could I miss that?

You know, I can imagine doing it that way. Fortunately, I sit in the middle, you know, of all this stuff. And I always tell people when people try to get me to get me to kind of lock down on what do I think of a card. And even if it's already been graded, you know, for a sticker. And they'll say, you know, what do you think? And I'll say, hey, you know, on the show floor, I'm, I'm as blind. as you guys are, you have to get in the right environment. You have to have the tools that, you know, graders use to examine what will determine a grade or a sticker. And I always tell people,

use what the graders have, you know, use the ruler, grab a ruler, grab a loop, you know, inspect those cards. Don't use show light as your determining, you know, factor whether or not you can see or can't see. And it's those little things. And I think we get kind of mixed up sometimes because there's kind of a got-a-have-it factor. You know, someone else is going to get it if I wait and so you take risks you know and those sometimes those risks pay off and sometimes they don't and it's kind of the hit and miss of it you know Brian any final thoughts with Mike or in general no I'm obviously a huge fan like and I know that we'll be doing business together soon and then at the national we can let's talk about something there that we could probably do it

together. I think we're going to be seeing each other a little before that March 20th in Renoville, South Carolina. That's where we're all going to be planned. That's what it's all going to happen. World domination will be planned. Hobby domination. Mike Baker, Ryan Luddden, Ryan Offord in Greenville slash easily South Carolina.

We will, we will discuss it. That's been on my bucket. It'll easily South Carolina. There's a cheeseburger with your name on it that you might just call them, crawling back for it. Let me just tell you that. I have it like four times a week. Awesome. Yeah. Mike, tell everybody

where they can keep up with you, MBA, all the things that you're up to. MBADiamond.com is the URL for the website. MBA Diamonds on Instagram. Those are our two mainstays. We're not really, don't have much of a presence on YouTube or Twitter or anything like that. So a lot of interaction happens with Instagram, actually. So I'm trying to get a following like Ryan's.

You know, it's no joke. That's a big deal, too. To be where you're at is a, is, you know, I'm stoked to like be nearing 10,000 followers. You know, to get in to break that, it's a lot of work, a lot of engagement, a lot of everything. You know, you just can't put it up there and expect followers just to come. You know, it doesn't work like that. So overnight success, Mike, 10 years in the making. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,

You know what I mean? Like it's not, it's posting every day for 10 years. Like anybody can do it, but not everybody does. That's right. But no, we appreciate Mike and here's the good news. You know, Brian and I are on every week. Mike's going to be a regular here every few weeks, months, his time available to drop in, drop some knowledge, tell us what's happening with NBA.

And of course, just give insights on it. Look, you don't need me to tell you. the guys, the treasure trove of knowledge, information, and one hell of a dude. We appreciate you, Mike. Right on. Ditto with that, guys. I'm happy to be here. Whenever you guys have time for me, I'm in. Awesome, Mike.

Appreciate you, brother. L-U-D-E-X, go to the App Store, download that app, guys. Don't ask questions. Just go do it. Thank me later. They got a free service. You can do with that. You give them their information.

You got that. But let me tell you, you're going to want to upgrade. L-U-D-E-X, values, eBay management, everything you need for managing and digital, your physical collection digitally, as well as a lot of tools for selling. So then the hobby doesn't just break you down. You got to get back. You got to get some money back for those cards you don't want to keep. And Luddex does it better than anyone.

We appreciate you. We are, Collector Nation. Go to the app store. Search for Collector Nation. The app is live now. All the content there. We appreciate you for making us the top 10 sports show in the United States. Hey, can't do it without you.

We'll see next time on Collector Nation. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.