Crime in Sports - #138 - Minivans, Cocaine & Multiple Gunshot Wounds - The Mistakenness of Charles Smith

Episode Date: November 12, 2018

This week, we drive to the hoop with a man who was liked by everyone he came across. Teammates loved him. Coaches adored him. He worked hard, played his role, and always helped others, making him an All-American, an Olympian, and an NBA player... Until he made a massive mistake that resulted in an unspeakable tragedy. He seems to get back on track, but eventually gun shots ring out, and cocaine is found. This is a crazy one!!Beat the odds to achieve your dream, attempt to run from the scene of your biggest mistake, and sell cocaine from behind the bar with Charles Smith!!Check us out, every Tuesday. We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanDonate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.comGo to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!Contact us on...twitter.com/[e-mail]/Crimeinsportsinstagram.com/smalltownmurder   See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It's an all-new season. Judy Justice. Only on Freebie. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today.

We are excited, as we always are for Crime and Sports. Going to have some fun today with another crazy... This one actually is death-defying. Great. There's some defied death and some undefied death. Some death that did not go defied. Somebody that refused to defy. There's some defied death and some undefied death. Some death that did not go defied. Somebody that refused to defy. There's some people.

Yeah, this is an interesting episode. We're going to have a good time with it, though. We're going to have fun. We're going to have a good time and all that. But first of all, I've got to thank everyone for your iTunes slash Apple podcast, whatever the hell they are, reviews this week. The little purple icon. Thank you so much for that.

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some tickets we can uh we can fraud people and make money off of these guys. Perfect. So that's a compliment in a way. In an odd backhanded way. And at the same time I'd love to kick that person's dick. Yeah and I'd also like to kick them in the dick. That was pretty cool but fuck you. You're a dick. I like your slimy moves you peckerhead. Yeah dickhead.

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And we can't wait to see you at live shows. Get your asses out there. We're planning on trying to get some Crime and Sports live shows going at some point. So don't worry about that. That's coming. But let's get to this Crime and Sports show right now. Because it's an interesting one. Great.

We're doing last week we were across the we didn't know where the hell we were it was another time another place the sport the location in the time we were out of our element in all of them so it was uh i felt like i was dancing on hot coals the whole time just trying not to get english town street names wrong and figure out what the hell you know racing things he was doing and then figure out a goddamn giant train robbery last week was a mess when it came to that so it's pretty cool how many people were actually reading a book about it watching a show about it that was cool yeah and then they listen to the show and they're like i'm in the middle of this

right now it's cool that people responded to it i'm glad they liked it i'm just it was it was a tough one to research and to put together and figure out what the hell was going on this one's more in our wheelhouse this is 90s basketball um in our wheelhouse and there's honestly not too too much sports involved in this one we'll we'll make fun of some uh cba teams names and stuff like that and there's some crime uh let's get into it cedric sabalos it's not cedric sabal i would i would have a hard time doing an episode on Cedric Sabalos because I met him and he's such a fucking nice guy he's a lovable man he's such a nice

guy I see him treat people people come up to him he'd treat everybody great he'd treat a fat bald guy the same as he would a hot 23 year old girl he treats him exactly the same he's a really nice guy it'd be hard to do that and he's a great father too his daughter's great at basketball he's helping her he's a great father, too. His daughter's great at basketball.

He's helping her. He's coaching her. If he messed up a couple times, he's a good guy. I don't know. As I'm sure a lot of people would be. If I knew them, it would be hard to do episodes on them. That's why you haven't seen a Lawrence Taylor episode yet. Not because I know him at all, but because I can't be unbiased.

I'm going to be on his side. I'm on his side, goddammit. And I'm going to make excuses for him and tell you how wonderful he is. So that's not a good episode. We're going to do it eventually anyway. And Jimmy's going to have to keep me in line and be like, James. I'll keep you honest. James, come back now.

Come on now. I'll tell you he's a scumbag. How much crack did he have that day? Seriously. How old was she? How old was she, James? Hold it up, Jimmy. How old is your daughter, James?

Oh, man. So let's get into this guy. Let's get into it. It's Charles Edward Smith. Oh, I know all about Charles Smith. Okay, which one? Charles Edward Smith IV. Oh, Jesus.

This is a junior squared. This is bad news. From the beginning, bad seed. You had to, from the start, you have this guy pegged it's no good teacher should have been like no good put him in the back of the class on the knicks no that's what i'm saying you're gonna i knew you were gonna everybody's gonna go yeah charles smith the guy who can't hit a fucking layoff lay up in the playoffs with five opportunities of i'm 6 11 and the basket's right there but i can't put it in there but he can drain a three in garbage time when it doesn't matter.

He was a, Jesus. Not that Charles Smith. Not the Charles Smith everybody thinks about in basketball. Kind of a big guy. I don't know. Skinny, lanky. Small forward, right? Kind of an Easter Island head looking guy. Got a big square just a big kind of flat square face.

And then he fucked that up with a flat top on top of it. How do you it look taller you're trying to be taller when he came in the league though everyone had a flat top that was just the way you did but when you have that square block head you don't block it off with that shit this is a different charles smith and we'll talk about believe me he'll come up the other charles smith because i mean imagine being him yeah like no god damn it my name's common enough as it is yeah and by the way when you research a guy named charles smith oh for christ's sake wow is it not easy because you know how many people get arrested that are named charles

smith a fuckload just a shitload because there's a shitload of people named charles smith so just a lot of them are getting arrested for everything everywhere everywhere. Bed puddles dad, Charles Smith. Everyone's Charles Smith. Not the fourth, though. No, this guy, double junior, junior, junior squared here. Born November 29th, 1967. He's from Washington, D.C. And he grows up.

He grows up in Washington, D.C. in the 70s. And as you can imagine, not a great time to not a great time or place. And I there's very little really out there about his childhood. And oddly enough, any detail, it's just kind of vague, whatever, because he didn't really get that famous. So nobody really chronicled what he did. But I mean, I'm sure Jesus, i don't know if you had some uh because he went to georgetown eventually i'm sure there's some georgetown profile whatever from 1985 that i

can't fucking find but but this it's hard to grow up in dc it's like he he his whole life was like a movie with a curtis mayfield soundtrack i have a feeling if you grew up in the 70s just all this fucking superfly and pusher man coming out every window and it's a lot going on i'm in shaft it's a lot yeah so he probably uh i mean he's in dc at the same time dave chappelle was there of growing up yeah about that time period yeah it's a no it's a terrible dc it's a bad time to be there any any of the major east coast cities in the 70s just experienced a deterioration like crazy. People fled, and it just turned into a mess.

That crack epidemic ruined DC. Then crack came in in the 80s and fucking really clubbed it over the head. Sure did. But in the 70s, it was heroin, and then it was crack in the 80s. And coke came in in the 70s, too. But yeah, DC, New York was a fucking disaster. Remember the Ford to New York drop dead upon the fucking thing? They weren't going to give them any funding. dc when new york was a fucking disaster remember the the you know uh ford to new york dropped dead upon the fucking thing like they weren't going to give him any funding uh philly turned into a

fucking mess yeah watch rocky one yeah that's what philly looked like in 1977 man that they film that shit on location and you're like wow that looks like gross no one lives there that's the neighborhood kind of like on the wire oh jesus it's like the neighborhood that they cleared out to make drugs legal because no one lived there anymore and it didn't matter. They were like, fuck it, this is Hamsterdam. Oh, I almost called it Gerbilville. Yeah, Gerbilville. Yeah, not Hamsterdam. Like Amsterdam.

I got it. With cops. So ham. Yeah. Gerbilville. Gerbilville where drug dealers are king. Come down to Gerbilville. I just remembered you said hamster and I was like, right gerbil i remember very small marsupial very tiny that's great okay so yeah he he grows

up in dc plays ball he's not a big guy either this is the other thing he's a guy who's he's got to have skills because he's 6-1 160 full grown so he's not a guy that on the court they're like damn he's 6'8 he's got he's got to be i mean he's just an average guy like he's got to be have some real skills to make anything any pay for himself here and i grows up in dc goes to all saints high in dc where he's a star there obviously if you're gonna if this story has any legs it's gonna he's gonna be a star in high school it's not like yeah he wasn't that great right played jv up and you know only only varsity for a senior year kind of a bench guy and you know no it's he's got to be a star in high school and he is a star we don't have any stats from this but uh he's yeah we don't need high school stats

he scored 38 points a game against white kids from the Virginia suburbs. Great. That's terrific. And there he's legit dunking on them. Good for him. Those kids are helping him. They're lifting him up. Hey, we've never seen a dunk in real life. He's a point guard, obviously.

There's really no other position on the floor that a 6'1 player could play, honestly, with much gusto. I don't know of any 6'1", small forwards or anything like that. So you're limited in your positions. At the time, 6'1", as a power forward, you'd have your head hanging out of your asshole all entire game. You'd be in other guys' assholes because they're 6'11", and your head only comes up to it. You're getting blocked a lot.

You're getting very few rebounds. You're getting 6'1", 160. Jeez, Charles Barkley swings his big fat ass at you. You're going to end up in the third fucking row. The disc will get hip. You've got to have some weight to you, some gravitas to withstand that sort of shit, man. Was Charles, was he 6'8"? No, he's 6'4".

That's what's insane about him. That's what I was thinking, that he was small. He's the greatest small rebounder in the history of the NBA. That's pretty incredible. Even the other guys, they always give Rodman so much credit because they're like, he's like 6'8", 6'9", but he's not a 7-footer. He's 6'10". But he's like 6'8", 6'9".

Is he? Rodman, yeah. And he was the most amazing rebounder I've ever seen. He was just more agile, too. He just had a great, he could see if the ball, when it's in the air, he knew exactly where it was coming from. Some guys can do that. They just have a weird thing.

And he was a hustler too he'd hustle but barkley so i don't six four getting rebounds like he did is the most incredible i've met charles barkley we're eye to eye he's the same fucking size as me except two of me wide and two of me thick right he's just a big son of a bitch he is deep yeah but he's the same height i was like whoa you're not that tall holy shit that's the first thing i thought i was i thought, you're not that tall. Holy shit. That's the first thing I thought. I was like, oof, I thought you were taller. Not taller. So he grows up here. He ends up being recruited.

And this is like from D.C. This is a dream, man. Because if you grow up in D.C., especially in shit D.C., and if you're growing up in D.C., think about this. He's born 1967. So he's a teenager in the early 80s when Georgetown, the local college, is the fucking biggest thing in the world. Powerhouse. Patrick Ewing is there.

They're going to finals and, you know, final fours. They're a monster. They really are. They're like the biggest thing in the, everyone. I was like four years old and I was a huge Georgetown fan. So, I mean, like anybody who saw them, they were on ESPN all the time and would be excited about that. So, he ends up being recruited

by john thompson at georgetown which like i said giant deal for a kid from dc uh now before he got there this is 84 85 georgetown uh the the uh the the season before that they were fucking dominant they were 35 and 3 which is absolutely dominant and they lost in the finals to villanova that was the crazy upset villanova final that was insane like that they were a number didn't matter they were no they were a number eight seed but i mean later on did that did that team have many great players that came off georgetown no villanova no that's what i mean it was a it was the strangest thing in the world that they won. That was not supposed to happen. It was 64, too, in the final game.

It was crazy. But that year, yeah, under John Thompson, they breezed through the kick the shit out of Lehigh, Temple, Loyola, Georgia Tech, and St. John's in the tournament before finally losing. We're talking Patrick Ewing is the center of that team. David Wingate, who we will have an episode on by the way david wingate he was almost this episode he was uh it was it was a toss-up between uh the between wingate uh wingate charles smith and chris washburn oh and uh i went with charles smith this time we're gonna go with those two down the road a little bit or maybe our next two basketball episodes i loved watching him he was about Wiggy. I loved watching him. He was so good.

He was good. Yeah, there's some teenage girls that might disagree with you. We'll talk about it another time. He was not good. No, not great. Not your kind of guy. You're going to go, he's my kind of guy. Let's not go crazy, Jimmy. You're that teal and purple. I like that. I get it, man. I get it. But yeah, this

is a dominant team the year before. He gets recruited that year no more patrick ewing so now we're talking reggie williams is the high scorer of the team who's a forward uh david wingate is the second highest guy on the team so you know they have guys like horace broadnecks who uh yeah you've never heard of him never that's a that's a deep cut horace broadnecks horace broadnecks sounds like a guy who's doing like a commercial for a local Never? That's a deep cut. Horace Broadnax. Horace Broadnax sounds like a guy who's doing a commercial for a local insurance company who, in the market, that someone would know, hi, I'm Horace Broadnax. 83 to 86 Georgetown, it says under him.

I played in a national championship beside a guy named Patrick Ewing. You may know him as a big star. Well, here, you're the only big star over at Broadnax Insurance. You're a bigger star than me. Over at Broadnax Insurance, you're a bigger star than I am. And you know what? Everyone is. Who isn't?

I'm Horace Broadnax. You ever heard of me? Fuck no. And you love the Hoyas. That's going to be our new characters, Horace Broadnax. He knocks on the door and they go who the fuck are you they don't even know who he is he goes you're right and he has to explain it every time horace broadnax you know that's i mean i have to make horace broadnax music but horace

broadnax is going to be our next guy because that's amazing horace fucking yaggity sax behind horace broadnaxick oh you know it man Jesus I need to have I need to come up with some non-copyrighted Benny Hill music now Horace Brodnick is a B cut from the album way after oh yeah way after they should have quit definitely oh Horace Brodnick you know after the bass player left and Horace Broadnecks came in. You know, Guns N' Roses was never the same after Horace Broadnecks started playing bass. He's the rhythm guitarist after Lynyrd Skynyrd's playing crash. Oh, that's good.

They brought in Broadnecks. And then he went to Guns N' Roses later after Duff left, right? Is that what happened? Is that how it works? Oh, no, this is the horus years these are terrible i don't like this album it all went to shit when horus came in no he was the one who said november rain should be 14 minutes long that was his fault it's all horus broadnecks plays a vicious triangle he's amazing so we should give horus broadnecks a little uh

horus broadnecks is a 6-1 guard who in the in uh averaged 7.5 points, 2.3 rebounds, 1.8 assists per game. Just to shade more stats than I've got. That's it. Just a bench guy, man. Just straight bench, man. That's a bummer. Yeah, that's one of those where the starters are the starters. They're playing most of the minutes for Georgetown.

I hope he got a first-rate fucking education. Well, Georgetown's a great college. That's my point. I hope he graduated a first-rate fucking education. Well, Georgetown's a great college. That's my point. I hope he graduated. If you go to your classes, he was a senior this year, so he went all four years. We don't know if he graduated or not, but, I mean, shit, you got a degree from Georgetown, you can open up your own insurance agency. Broadnax Insurance.

Sandwich Joint something. I'm going to find a town in Maryland that it's in also brought next insurance so and so maryland and that's gonna be our how you doing pardon me i'm horace they sent me here because you're fucking up remember they said that to ask how is it you forgot well how is it i don't mean are you set for the future do you have have life insurance? Tell you what, Horace. Pray tell. Who the fuck are you? Pray tell, Horace. Pray tell, Horace. Let me ask you.

Who the fuck are you? We have been going off lately on a pray tell binge where we just ask each other. It is my favorite. Whenever anything, because whenever anybody says pray tell, it's usually like a southern woman who doesn't believe what you're going to say. Who thinks you're lying to her. Whatever you're about to tell her is all bullshit pray tell you had my daughter home at 10 o'clock last night hmm it's one of those things like you know that she was out fucking in the cornfield so

if we use pray tell it's we're we're it's just leaking out real life is leaking into the show because that's what we do we walk walk around airports going, pray tell. Talking shit about fucking airlines and people and shows and things. Oh, Christ. All right. All right. Horace Broadnax aside, Charles Smith averaged three points, one rebound,.8 assists that year. So he's a freshman.

I mean, Jesus, not much expected from him. They probably let him play three minutes a game or something. did he average here minutes uh minutes per game 8.1 so i mean he's not playing at all they're just get him in there make sure he doesn't you know throw up and slip and fall down and basically that's we'll get our starting guard a fucking rest yeah get his feet wet let him see what it's like to play in front of you know on national television in front of a shitload of people and it's georgetown tons of attention back then people are paying attention that's the thing too if you're coming in off you know you're a kid that kind of grows up whatever of limited means and that sort of thing and you're

thrust into georgetown that's the year after patrick ewing left and all that's like whoa that is the spotlight man i mean that's that's huge but this year georgetown does decent 24 and 8 which isn't that big of a letdown after Ewing leaves. I mean, that's a big deal. He was kind of a force in college. He was ridiculous in college. He somehow figured it out from college all the way through his career. It just mattered in every fucking game.

But in college, nobody was that big. He's just so big in college. His wingspan, he would just be swat shit left and right you just couldn't get a shot off you could be physical back then too what does that guy have to lose look at his face look at him oh yeah he doesn't give a shit fuck what you throw a sheen of sweat on him that's never can't be penetrated but now that georgetown team they were crazy they would fucking throw down they would start fine i mean they were just a take no shit kind of a They were great to watch, man.

They were awesome. So that year, though, 24-8, like we said, John Thompson still there, obviously. They go to the tournament as the No. 4 seed in their bracket or whatever. They win in the first round, 70-64, versus No. 13 seed Texas Tech. And then they lose in the second round to Michigan State, who's the number five seed it's 80 to 68 too so that's that's kind of a disappointment for georgetown fans and not even close not even close yeah for georgetown they're like they expect they were on this high for like the last three years and then they're like oh we lost the days of shit second round not even sweet 16 like came and get

there uh 86 87 they are They are 29-5. So that's climbing the ladder again. That's pretty goddamn good under John Thompson, obviously. Again, they go to the tournament. Number one seed in the Southeast bracket. Southeast, whatever the fuck it is there, that year. They win in the first round. They blow out the number 16 seed.

They should blow them out. Bucknell. Oh. You should beat the shit out. Bucknell. Oh. You should beat the shit out of Bucknell. Bucknell should just be thankful they were ever fucking. Yeah. Hey, guys. They just give a lot of thank you.

That line up and shake hands at the end of the game is genuine. Thank you so much, guys. This is a real treat. I learned a lot today. Learned a lot about basketball and life in general. I appreciate it. Thanks, guys. I'm going to change my major.

I'm going to definitely get an education now. Thanks for the thumping. Appreciate it. You guys really changed the course of my life. You know what? I'm going to look back on this day when I'm asked. In a job interview, they're going to say, were there any moments that are significant in your life?

Actually, yes. Yeah, I can tell you one. Getting crushed 75-53 in the first round of the NCAA tournament by Georgetown by better basketball players. They in the first round of the NCAA tournament by Georgetown by better basketball players. They win the second round. They beat Ohio State, who's the No. 9 seed. They beat them 82-79, so shit's getting closer. Then they go to the next round versus Kansas, which I believe this is Danny Manning's senior year at Kansas,

or it might be the year he went into the NBA. I'm not sure. is versus Kansas, which I believe this is Danny Manning's senior year at Kansas, or it might be the year he went into the NBA. I'm not sure. Either way, number five seed Kansas, and they win. Georgetown beats them 80 to 57. Look at this. So this is now we're doing something, facing number six seed Providence in the next round. And Providence, they're weird.

They're spotty. and Providence not a they're weird they're spotty they go from they'll have like resurgences now and then but there's a lot of inconsistency and white guys that shoot three there's a lot of that going on

not a lot of slashing through the lane from Providence it's going to be a lot of pass that ball around get that open shot which works for them and a lot of times in the tournament you'll get a team that's great, athletic, and they crush people that way. And you'll get one of these providences or a Princeton or a Penn that comes in and they have this very precise passing game and they shoot a lot of threes.

And if they have a hot day shooting threes, they end up winning. Ball game. It happens in tournaments. It's happened a bunch of times. And now it happens in the fucking nba it happens in the nba that's true but now it happened here and uh georgetown loses 88 73 oh no so they get their ass kicked by providence which is not okay that's a real that team i can see their jersey and i can see all those fucking mess of letters on the front they really gotta take a simple uh mascot and just put like bull something on their chest because providence is far too many letters to go from armpit to armpit bullshit some of these colleges have something

something and then state afterwards like jesus christ with that shit underneath yeah blah blah state with a thing and It's crazy. Yeah. It's too much, man. This year, though, for Charles, he plays in 33 games. He starts two games. So he's a sophomore, so they're easing him in. Plays 15.6 minutes per game, so that's almost double his minutes. So they're easing him in. John Thompson knows how to turn over the roster anyway.

He's done that a few times. This year, he averages 6.7 points per game, one assist, 1.1 steals, which is pretty good, and 1.5 total rebounds. So point guard, little guy. He's coming into it. He's adding. He's starting to get there.

87-88 Georgetown season. Not so good. This is the worst season they've had in a while uh 20 and 10 which is still fine uh nine and seven in the big east which isn't terrific in your conference uh that that's rough there keep you out of the tournament that'll keep you uh well they they make the tournament they're the number eight they're 20 and 10 so really yeah they're the number eight losing that many games in your own in your own conference though yeah they get there though they're still georgetown too and this is a selection yeah, they're the number eight. So isn't that many games in your own in your own conference? Yeah, they get there, though.

There's still Georgetown, too. And this is a selection process and they're not going to pay. You know, it's a good point. Yeah, they're the number eight seed, too. So it's not even like they're a 15 seed or anything. There's very little math involved in that fucking tournament bracket shit. I mean, there's a little bit of some. And then there's also, hey, we want we like Georgetown.

So they saw a lot of shit happens. Yeah, this could be good for us so they win in the first round they play louisiana state who's a number nine seed and they win 66 63 so good for them that's not bad against lsu yeah that is a close is that the year before shack got there i think possibly at lsu i'm not positive. What year was it? 87, 88. Yeah, it was before him. I think it was the year Shaq got there. And then the next round, they play number one seed Temple. And this game is not pretty.

It is 74-53. They kick the shit out of the Hoyas. And that's an ugly way to get out of the tournament. At least you're losing to the number one seed. You're not losing to Providence. But still, that's an ass kicking. And not advisable for you know i'm sure that that if you if you're john thompson you're not thrilled no at all with this losing some folks their jobs yeah that's losing well it's it's

college basketball so if you have a coach that's entrenched they're fine the coach is fine but there's some other folks are going away yeah and, and it just deflates the whole thing. Georgetown, they were living on, and sports anyway, they were living on that. Academically, it's another thing. But they were living on that whole basketball thing high for a few years there. And now it's crashing down slightly. Now, 87-88 on the floor for Charles. 30 games played.

Starts 16 games now. So now he's coming into his own. 29 a game which is a shitload that's the he's he's playing a lot here uh he ends up with uh with uh 15.7 points per game which is fantastic 3.3 rebounds 2.5 assists I'd like to see a little more out of your point guard but see him making some shots that's that's fine yeah yeah he seems to be more of a scorer here with the 15.7 points. That's a lot in college. It is. That's a ton.

It's kind of a lot in the NBA, too. No, that's decent. It's average. It's mid-range. But you expect Tim Hardaway's making people get it right. Yeah, you're a good scorer if you're scoring average and 15.7 a game. And he averages 2.4 steals a game, which is phenomenal. That's really good.

He's always a good defender. He's a sticky little defender. He's not too shabby. And he's so good that that year, in 1988, John Thompson is in charge of the Olympic team and picking the team for the Olympics. And this guy's hustling, and he's working hard, and he's good to have on the floor

and he chooses, John Thompson chooses Charles Smith to be on the Olympic team. How about this? Now, this is before we used to send professionals. This was when it was still amateurs. So this is the last non-dream team. So you'll never hear a word about this team ever because then the next one had Michael Jordan,

Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, every 15 of the top 50 all-time players were on that fucking team basically the barcelona team yeah the bar that was ridiculous in 88 they sent uh they sent some pros no no pros soul no no pros are you sure yeah no it's all college guys i got them right here so they weren't they just weren't in the nba yet they weren't in the yeah they were all gonna be in the like here's the team that year it was mitch richmond who's just sacramento was a star for I got them right here. So they just weren't in the NBA yet? They weren't in the NBA. Yeah, they were all going to be in the NBA. Here's the team that year. It was Mitch Richmond, who's a Sacramento,

was a star for years. Charles Smith. Yep. A dude from the Hawks, too. Bimbo Coles, who played forever. Hersey Hawkins. That's the one. Hersey Hawkins.

Jeff Greyer, who I remember him, actually. Charles D. Smith, the other Charles Smith. Gotcha. Stacey Augman, who's the Hawks. That's the one I was thinking of. Willie Anderson, who, again, we'll do an episode on him of the Spurs. Oh, no, that's Greg Cadillac Anderson. Sorry. Different guy.

Sorry. But that guy also played for the Spurs. Yeah, I think so. And Willie Anderson, I think he got busted for Coke, too. We'll figure it out. There's a lot of Andersons and Smiths, and it's tough when they're on the same team. Dan Marley on this team. Really? Yeah, Dan Marley. This was the year right before he was drafted. Danny Manning on this team, so he marley this was the year uh right before he was drafted danny manning on this team so he was on that kansas team and uh jr reed on that team who

was really good for a lot and finally david robinson wow the admiral here that's a great team also on the 92 team yeah yeah he's the only guy on here that's also on that team interesting and then later on the 96 team mitch richmond i think is on that i. Interesting. And then later on, the 96 team, Mitch Richmond, I think, is on that. I think Dan Marley might be on that. Stacey Ogman might be, too. Yeah, there's a few of these guys on that team, too. Stacey Ogman was so good. He was really good.

Yeah, especially in college. He was nasty. Now, but the team in the 88 Olympics, this is in Seoul, by the way, the Seoul Olympics. We've discussed certain Olympics before. Seoul's come up a few times. Seoul's come up a few times here. We'll only talk about basketball then, so we won't get into the other shit. Listen to the past episodes of people who participated in the 88 Olympics.

I think, what's his name? The British James Waithe. The British guy. The ski jumper? No, no, no. The guy who tried to. That was Naoki. He tried to. He tortured a man with a toaster

and all that. Remember the British guy who was a fighter in the Olympics and then he was like an enforcer for a drug gang. It was the 88 Olympics. I don't know if it's winter or summer. I'm not sure. They have them in the same year? No, every two years.

They're staggered. So he was in this one because it was 88. Anyway, winter is not every two. It's just two years they're staggered so that winner is every two so he was in this one because it was 88 anyway winner is not every two it's just two years after it's two years after summer yeah well that'd be way too much that'd be a lot of olympics every two years is still too much olympics for me it's just too much olympics i don't need any olympics i don't watch the winter ones i watch any of them i don't care about this really there's not a sport there i watch why would i watch that? Summer ones are fun. What do you like about them?

I like the swimming ones. Why? I like swimming. I like the basketball. I like the fucking gymnastics stuff is great. I wouldn't watch gymnastics. I like the stories. Gymnastics is on all the year.

They have it on ESPN at like 3 in the morning. I like to watch for the bullshit storyline that they construct that is all fucking bogus. I can't fucking take the piano music in the background showing how their mother had to work three jobs while their grandmother had to get out of her wheelchair to drive her at four o'clock in the morning of the ice rink so she could practice every fucking day before school before she had to take an hour and a half bus back to school and then climb to school up in snow both ways uphill and then they show the american kid and this kid's like, we just got him off a fortnight to play. Yeah, it's fine.

He's fine. It's fucking ridiculous. I can't take it. We had to cut the power on the fucking Xbox to get that kid to come here. Yeah. Yeah. He's playing for his young daughter who's on a respirator for the last six months and it's fucking enough. I can't take it anymore.

And then they show people competitively fucking, you know, swimming and twirling and shit. I'm like, i can't watch this the diving is dumb there's there's a bunch of them that i just can't watch but i i love the storylines and i love watching listen uh arrogantly i love watching the u.s just mop up shit countries do we do that still i don't even know yes okay on a consistent basis it's like it's like who expects them to beat the people that have all the all the money and all the best uh equipment to you know what i mean yeah no countries it's like why why are they here well they're allowed to participate i mean we beat russia in 1980

in hockey and we were have no business doing that these countries were training with some shit objects and now you've got i know very little about this subject all i do know really is from cool running yeah that's my point and when a team is underfunded and uh it isn't their regular deal it doesn't it's not usually successful let's just say that um you're gonna end up with that which they were happy to finish a race right so the ones that i do like watching is the running and watching every other country just show us how it's done. You will attract John Candy, though. That's the thing.

So if you there's advantages to it, the whole thing. There's advantages and disadvantages. I want him to come back. Keep these Olympics going. Maybe it'll bring him back. This is how long ago this is. This is what a difference 30 years makes. Russia, the soviet union actually

not even russia the soviet union wins gold medal in basketball wow uh that no that's that happened that happened this year uh alexander volkov uh teat t-i-i-t a man's name is t-i-i-t and his last name is s-o-k-k oh no sock teat sock kicked our ass they for sure called that guy tit sock tit sock titty sock get your ass over here yo titty sock where titty sock at terenikov uh igor mig oh jesus migleni x uh valerie tikka honolenko jesus karimus kardinais this is fucking a lot man a lot of victors with with k's yeah all sorts of shit here alexanders with no no x k and an i and an e and S. It's all messed up. And then silver? I'll let you guess. Any country in the world that won silver that year. Cambodia. Yugoslavia. Is that right? They're not even a fucking country

anymore. And they beat us in basketball 30 years ago. Not even... Neither's a Soviet Union, but that's mainly Russia. Yugoslavia, not a country. And they beat us in basketball. Is Cambodia a country? Is that a city? No, that's a country. But they did have a couple

NBA guys. They had Drazen Petrovic. I was going to say, I think Drazen was on that team. Tony Kukoc is on that team, and Vlade Divac is also on that team. So they had three future NBA stars there. That at least explains that. I've never seen or heard of any of these Russian guys. And they got second? They got second.

They were silver medal, and then U.S. takes the bronze. The wait is over. So far you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that. Bing! The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up

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Follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. 1988-89 season. They're back in Georgetown now. They go 29-5. So they're back on top, man. That's pretty goddamn good. 29-5, they have, well, there's a reason why,

because before the roster was a little thin. All of a sudden now, they have the Twin Towers in the game, and it's a little bit different if you don't know what that is, if you didn't grow up in that time. That is Alonzo Mourning and and dikembe matumbo on the same team and being played at the same time uh and if you they're nba stars matumbo seven foot two morning 6 10 they're both centers and they're both star nba centers and they were on the same team at the same time in college really good really good and really frightening if you're a

you know a opposing team sure nobody has seven-footers in the middle. If you're under 6'2 and driving the lane, that is disturbingly frightening. Yeah, so they have a pretty good year that year, like we said. And they're, I mean, Morning's a freshman. Matumbo's a freshman. So, I mean, they're kids. They got them a while now. They got them, yeah.

They're kids, but they're still contributing. Morning is a freshman at 13.1 points and 7.3 rebounds a game. It's easy at that point. That's pretty impressive. Through the tournament, they first round, they play No. 16 seed Princeton because they're No. 1 seed Georgetown, and they beat Princeton. Princeton's another one of those scary teams where you've got to be careful. They beat Princeton 50-49.

Wow. So Princeton, they slow it down. They pass. They use the whole shot clock. They brought their scores down. I mean, they averaged 80 points a game that year, Georgetown. And they scored 50 against Princeton, which is a lot less. So they win by the skin of their teeth there. They go to face No. 9, Notre Dame, in the next round.

And they win 81-74. Third round, they go to play North Carolina State, and they win 69-61. They were the No. 5 seed. And then they have a showdown here in the regional final versus Duke, No. 2 seed Duke. Is that Dickhead Duke? That's No. 1 and 2.

What's his name? Krzyzewski? The white guy? Leitner? Leitner, yeah. Yeah, because this is when he came on, because Leitner was on the 92 team. He was the only college guy, if you remember. For some reason, they were like, well, grab him, too.

Grab his fucking white ass. Someone's got to carry shit. Someone's got to get us bagels in the morning. Get the fucking kid out. They really probably did that because otherwise, if you're on that team and you're a college kid, you're carrying bags and you're getting fucking, you know, you're getting whatever you want. You're getting sandwiches, whatever they want. That's goddamn Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson.

What do you need? Because I got you. You're good. I'm trying to think of everybody on that Duke team. It was probably Grant Hill. I think he was on that team, too. I think he was there. And then Leitner.

I believe so. I think that's it. That was 88, 89. Yeah. And then a couple. I'm trying to think, because everybody I'm thinking of is like 91, 92, and I don't know if they were there. Because I know a lot about that Michigan team, the Fab Five, the 91, like that era of Duke. Fucking thugs.

Yeah. Those guys were gangsters. I love that, too. I loved it. I like all those. That was a great team. I like all the subversive teams always as a kid. I always liked that.

Oh, those guys are the dicks? Okay, I like that. Oh, I always was as a kid. I always liked that. Oh, those guys are the dicks? Okay, I like that. Oh, I always was as a kid. All right, good. I like the team of assholes. I don't even mind that it ended the way it ended because it was still so... That was so sad. They still all went on to have great careers or fine careers.

Shit, they had damn fine careers. I'm sure they all made a ton of money. That's good. Good for them. That year, though, Charles has a good year, too. Charles, 18.7 points a game, leads the team in scoring, 3.6 rebounds, 5.1 assists. So not too shabby. 33.7 minutes a game.

He started 33 games. All the games he played, he started. Not too bad. And steals, 1.8 steals that year. He is the Big East Player of the Year for the conference. He's also in the NCAA tournament. They have regions. That's what I was going for.

Regions, not bracket. Regions, he's part of the all-region team from the tournament. And he is an 88-89 AP All-America selection. Wow. So, fucking great. I mean, you can't get much better. It's so bright in the horizon. It is.

Right now for him, the future is fucking. First of all, you went to Georgetown for four years. So you got that backing you up. You got a great education. You play on the fucking Olympic team. You're an Olympian. You have a medal. It's a bronze, but it's still a fucking.

You can scratch it and there's chocolate underneath, but it's still a fucking medal. And most people don't. I but it's still a fucking medal and most people don't i don't have any medals i have zero i have zero medals that's pretty goddamn impressive he's got medals he's got all this shit happening georgetown top school does great he did as well as he could do in the tournament he's a fine you know i mean jesus christ he had a great tournament all america feeling great grace let's just right there oh no if this is grace that could it be any better right now no it can't no i mean you could get drafted and then go on great career you could sometimes you do yeah uh not this. All right. We'll talk about that. But yeah, this is a rough grace. I mean, but it is a grace.

At least he had a high point. It's impressive. Some of the people we talk about, they don't even have a high point. You're like, grace now? That was the good part? That's it. That was all he had, man. He's 1-0.

That's the glory. I don't know what to tell you, man. He's 1-0. Yeah, it'll be a fighter. I don't know. He's 2-0, and he hasn't killed anybody yet. it's great we're doing grace this is good uh the all america teams that year by the way to give you a just kind of a context of who else was on there he's uh he's the second team all america there's three there's the third first second third first team is makhmud abdul raouf sherman douglas uh sean elliott theur, who I think lost a kidney or gave a kidney.

I think lost and got one. And got one back. Great three-point shooter. He was a good player, Sean Elliott. Classy dude. He was. That's just a good all-around guy. Danny Ferry is on that team, the big goofy white guy from Duke.

He was another Duke guy. Okay. So that's another reason why I didn't like Danny Ferry's a big Duke dick. Fucking Stacy King also on that from Oklahoma. When you got a sport that you play that is mostly watched, I think, by kids. I don't know. It felt like it when I was young watching. That poor guy was just so terribly named.

Oh, yeah, yeah. He was Danny Ferry. Always. Just railed on. And he looked like a dweeb i remember one time and this is an absolute fact i remember two kids it was in a there used to be a thing called like a card shop where you'd go and they'd have like cards and memorabilia and kids used to hang out there and like buy cards and like hang out and kids would be like trading shit and like fucking the whole deal i remember hearing two kids i was probably you know 12 at the time i remember hearing two kids trying to work out a trade with different cards and all i know is i didn't hear the kid offer him up but one of the kids clearly offered up danny ferry in the trade

a danny ferry rookie and the other kid goes danny ferry i don't want him and i just that's stuck in my head for over 20 years i just can't it's just danny fairy i don't want him it's just like there's gotta be nobody wants him the least used guy on on nba live you bench that fucking guy right away no one wants him in there you goofy bastard i'd rather have bill wen. Yeah, bring him on off the bench. It's fine. Depressing. What a shit man. It's goddamn fine. So that's the second team is Mookie Blaylock.

Oh. Jay Edwards from Indiana. Never Nervous Purvis Ellison from Louisville. I love Purvis Ellison. He's a cool motherfucker. Sixers? Never Nervous Purvis. He's kind of made his way all around.

He's one of those guys. Glenn Rice, who we've talked about before. He got some almost vice presidential ass back in the day. The funniest guy. He's like, dodge that bullet. Every time I hear that man's name, I see her face. Yeah. And every fucking crazy time he sees a news report of like her son doing some crazy shit or her daughter having like triplets on the hood of a pickup truck in the middle of the mall or some shit.

He's like, man, did I dodge a fucking bullet right there? He hears Marv Albert go, yes. No fucking doubt. no fucking doubt in the mall food court while shooting a wolf that's amazing make sure there ain't no wolves out there bring the guns wow ah that family that fucking family and charles smith also yeah obviously the uh last one there and the third team quickly hank gathers todd lichty george mcleod who i remember very well wanzo morning as a freshman the third team, quickly, Hank Gathers, Todd Lichty, George McCloud, who I remember very well, Lonzo Mourning as a freshman made third team, All-American, and Lionel Simmons

from LaSalle, who I don't remember at all. Say his name again? Lionel Simmons. I do. He played for the Bucs. Okay, that's probably why I don't remember him, because the Bucs were very easily ignored. I see the Tops card with him dribbling up the court. They were so easily ignored, the Bucs. i don't i think he was in uh nba jam matter of fact

lionel simmons nobody ever played the bucks no yeah but the bucks had fucking uh uh todd blow hoss b low hoss brad low hoss who's blow hoss i think it was todd day blow hoss and lionel simmons jesus i don't remember i'm pretty sure that's true. I have blocked Lionel Simmons. I remember guys, obscure guys, too. For some reason, I have completely blocked Lionel Simmons from my memory bank. You know what? If I saw his basketball card, it probably, you know. In my head right now, I see that jersey.

I see that face. It might be Vin Baker's face. I'm sure it's Vin Baker. It's Vin Baker, I know. Yeah. It's not Frank Borkowski. I'm sure of that shit. I know that for a fact

I can't remember but I see Lionel Simmons Kings I don't know I gotta look up his card now I can see that Hawks definitely he's on the Hawks sure he's on the Hawks forever maybe it was the Expos Dallas yeah he's on Dallas I see that totally

right there I can see no no Sixers absolutely on the Sixers 100% I have no idea I don't know I'm gonna have to look up his basketball card people are gonna be tweeting his card at us this Lionel Simmons so I see him either at the free throw line or coming up the court one of the one of the two well good for him he did both probably or it's Vin Baker or both of them. Or it's Vin Baker. Who knows? Or it's fucking Glenn Robinson. You're really off.

Who knows, man? Jesus Christ. June 27th, 1989 is the NBA draft. If you're a consensus All-American, you feel you're one of the top ten players in the country. It's a pretty good deal. You're looking fucking forward to this, baby. At minimum, 15.'re looking good yeah you're look you're feeling good about yourself here this is june 27th 1989 from the felt forum in new york which is the offshoot smaller madison square garden thing it's the giggles of the side yeah yeah it's like a finally a four or five thousand seats they got over there that's great they held over there yeah

it's but i mean not for the nba draft that should be right there in center court but uh yeah well i mean even then but that's it was getting to be a bigger deal then it was on tbs which tbs wasn't that big of a station at the time so they were growing with them and all that the nba really blew up in the 90s people don't because of tbi well in the 80s the turner network the 80s burden magic really took it to but the 90s was a whole other thing man it was that was like a huge deal in the 90s michael jordan and shack came in and all that it was mainstream it was great players it was great the players were amazing like really that was a golden era for for players in the 80s and 90s but but the the marketing was also golden era like you everyone on earth knew who fucking shack was right in 1993

everyone on earth knew michael jordan was in 1991 scotty pippen everybody they were all household faces never mind names right they were household faces and that's the difference now because i know names of nba players but if you showed me their face i'll be like that ain't i don't know who the fuck that yeah well i think the olympics also. The 92 Olympics, that mainstreamed NBA basketball. You're probably right. Because the Olympics get huge ratings, way bigger than the NBA, and that's also a different audience. The NBA is a different audience, whereas the Olympics is your casual fan,

somebody's mother sitting on the couch wanting to watch the gymnastics or whatever. That's the Olympics. And you've got to sit through this basketball game to get to it. Yeah, and that just pounded every one of those guys' faces into everybody's, you know. And then they were on everything. You went to McDonald's, the fucking Dream Team thing. If you went here, there was a Dream Team thing.

Everybody had a Dream Team sponsored. And then the games weren't even close. Oh, they were, and people loved them. They were hilarious. It was like, oh, look, 91-48. We beat the shit out of, what team? Croatia. I don't even know what country that is i never heard of them before fuck them that's a weird flag who gives a fuck who gives a shit let's watch fucking barkley dunk on him sounds great all right there he is that weird man with the hairy chest just got his fucking face

pushed into mj's balls nice porn mustache, buddy. You should probably shave that before you play the NBA players. So this draft here, 1989, number one overall pick is Purvis Ellison from Louisville. Never nervous. Purvis goes to the Kings. Number two overall. This is why the Clippers were the Clippers for so fucking long. By the way, when I'm watching the ticker on football at the ball, I can't get used to LAC being the Chargers. I can't either.

Every time I see it, I'm like, the Clippers? What the fuck? Shit. I see Clippers because our whole lives we were trained on a ticker, LAC is the fucking Clippers. And there's never been one in the NFL. No. There's never been a thing. LAC is really tripping me out here. But this is why the Clippers suck. They draft Danny Ferry

number two overall. Number two overall out of duke out of everything out of everybody could add anybody and we'll tell you who you could have had and it's way better than danny ferry let's put it that way number three sean elliott but here real quickly before you move further than sean elliott didn't they move him pretty rapidly to the cavaliers after that yeah yeah yeah danny ferry didn't last very long he was gone so quick, you idiots. Yeah, they were, I'm sure they got terrible value. He's a good three-point shooter. He was a big guy, though.

I don't remember him shooting threes. He was a power forward. I see him shooting threes. I remember his big, goofy, white ass under the boards. He was a fucking creep-looking man. He was. He was creepy. He looked like somebody's, like, a lecherous professor.

Yeah. He looked like a hairy, weird. Sean Elliott, number three. Okay. Glenn Rice, number four. J.R. Reid, Stacey King, George McCloud there. Pooh Richardson, number ten. I loved him.

The best player ever named Pooh, I would say. It has to be. I don't know any others. Nick Anderson, the guard for the Magic forever. He was a great player in the 90s. That's a three-point shooter. Everybody knew Nick. Yeah, Nick Anderson's a great three-point

shooter. Mookie Blaylock there goes to the Nets. Tim Hardaway to the Warriors right there. So, I mean, Dana Barros, who was also a good three-point shooter. I remember him on the Sixers forever. He's drafted by Seattle, but I remember he was there for

two years and then he got shipped over there. Is that all he was there for? Yeah, then he was shipped over to Philly for a long time. Until they got Kerry Tittles and Allen Iverson? Well, number 17 overall is also the Sonics this year and they get Sean Kemp. Really? So yeah, that's, you, okay, if you're

looking for a power forward, LA, you took Danny Ferry over a man who can grab the top of the backboard. The top of the backboard. I mean, Sean Kemp fell apart in later years because he'll be in episode two. That's another thing, too. If he would have gotten drafted in L.A., he would have had that whole valley pregnant.

Oh, my God. Holy shit. Everybody. And he would have been a giant star. He would have been a huge fucking star there. B.J. Armstrong went after him. Another great player, Vladi Divacac at the end of the round my fuck yeah these guys i mean you know sherman douglas cliff robinson even him yeah even cliff robinson real good player so there's a lot of options here to not pick danny ferry basically and they blow it

all and they pick danny ferry but one player not picked is charles smith oh no whole two rounds go by he's never picked nothing and. And it's weird, too, because there's point guards here that get picked there. I'm like, OK, Scott Hafner. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Guys like that where you go, you go, Junie Lewis. What? You know, Junie Lewis. No. We hear him. I've never heard of Junie Lewis from South Alabama before. No. But he gets drafted over a consensus All-American from Georgetown who just who just displayed what he does on national television in a tournament for weeks in a row also. What did they see?

It's NBA. They don't see guys as some guys are just, that's a college player. There's no way that translates to the NBA. That doesn't translate. It's a weird thing. He's 6'1", he's 160, and he's not crazy athletic. He does not dunk it on people he's a guy who's got to play on kind of guile and and his speed too his quickness in the nba you know what's quick in

college isn't quick in the nba that's a good point you got gary payton d and you up it's a different story you know like it's a totally different ball game than if you have some fucking kid from princeton on you right even if they hold you to uh 50 so he doesn't get drafted at all two uh three months go by. This has to be tough for him, man. That's a tough thing to do, I would think. Three months of that shit sitting in your craw? Three months going all summer long.

Just that happened in June. He's just June, July, August, just tapping his fingers. Calendar pages just burning up. Fuck, man, this sucks. And no money burning up is probably the other issue. I don't know if he has anything left over from Georgetown, which I'm sure he was compensated nicely. He should be. He fucking should be, goddammit.

They made a lot of money off hats and jackets. You know how many fucking people had Georgetown gear? I'm sorry. I don't give a shit. I hope every one of those players got as much money from those scumbag alumni as they fucking could. Because they wanted to win, and they want to see a winner. And that school made so much fucking money. The NCAA. Georgetown.

Everything was Georgetown in the late 80s. Hats, jackets, the big starter jackets, all that shit. They were a huge seller. And those kids made fucking ugots off it. So I really hope they drain those alumni and those boosters just dry. I hope they turn them upside down and shook the change out of their pockets. If not, I hope a woman drained their ball bag in a free Cadillac.

Something, damn it. Something happened. Anything. Anything. So three months go by, and then he gets a phone call, and he ends up being signed as a free agent by the Boston Celtics,

which at the end of the 80s, that's a pretty good fucking place to land. It's a hall of famers all around you that's wow all the end of their careers with a chance for you and you want to learn that's a place to learn i mean you got people around you uh boston he plays on boston that year it's coach jimmy rogers who i don't remember very well for some reason uh but uh boston not a bad year this year 52 and 30 you win 50 in the NBA, it's a goddamn good season. Second in the Atlantic Division, they go to the playoffs, and they lose in the first round of the playoffs to the Knicks, though,

which I'm sure did not sit well. That's when they knew it was over in Boston. That was the end of it, I think. Losing to New York. And they lose to the Knicks, who were like, oh, and the Knicks were not good, and they were starting to get good, and then the 90 the knicks who are like oh and the knicks were not good and they were starting to get good and then the 90s knicks were good but uh so much fun through the 80s if you're a celtics fan you're laughing at the knicks and now you're getting beaten the playoffs

in the first round by the knicks like uh-oh that's not good uh so that team uh is larry bird though kevin gamble i remember kevin gamble uh denn Dennis Johnson, who's a damn good player. Big, goofy shit Joe Klein. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember goofy Joe Klein? Came to the Suns for a while. Played for the Suns. Wait, I used that term very loosely and in quotes.

Played for the Suns. He sat on a bench for the Suns. He hung out in a Suns uniform and got a tan, and I think he was actually having margaritas while on the bench. He's like, I know I'm not fucking playing. May as well mix these. Half these guys could get hurt and they're still not going to fucking call me. It does not matter.

Every center could be injured. They'll still put Mark West in there before me. There's a security guard here who is actually ahead of me in the depth chart. So here I am. Somebody get me one of those little pizzas from the fucking food thing go get a pizza from uh the guy that's playing before i do yeah go grab him please jesus christ this was a hell of a team though joe klein like i said reggie lewis who will meet a tragic end as we know uh uh kevin mckale robert parish yeah i love robert parish he was

one of the greatest ever he's been busted for weed so many times. Parrish has? He doesn't give a fuck. No, he doesn't care. He's a big pothead. He doesn't give a shit. He got busted having pounds delivered to his house. That's amazing.

He's like, yeah, I like a lot of weed. Look at me. They were trying to get him for intent to distribute, and he's like, what are you fucking stupid? I'm smoking all of that. That's all for me. Look how big I am. How much do you think will get me high?

Barely that. And his eyes never open more than about a quarter of an inch, and his nickname is Chief. all of that that's all for me look how big i am how much do you think will get me high barely that and his eyes never open more than about a quarter of an inch and his nickname is chief guess what i'm smoking it all chief baby that's funny robert parish is the fucking man jim paxton a little fucking goofball with his brothers doing shaving commercials i remember that and i want to still want to break his brother's legs for that 93 shot ed pickney yeah it was a good player uh and charles smith and also michael smith wasn't on this team no no no danny age here where did he move to after that that is did he go to phoenix after that i think was he in somewhere in between i wonder that i'm i'm clouding out on like 90 90 to 92 there may have been someone else. 92-93 is on the Suns team, definitely.

So 90-91, probably. Because this is the, what, 89-90 Celtics here. He was somewhere else first. He was somewhere else. So, yeah, this team, though, it's a lot of veterans on this team. Those are a lot of experienced players, if you look. Not a lot of rookies at all. There's like one.

The Smith guys are the only two rookies. Everybody else is uh reggie lewis has two years experience and everybody else is pretty pretty fucking experienced his heart has 90 years it's 90 years it's terrible yeah that's the problem he'll come up again later this episode oh really so he plays in 60 games this year for the celtics so signs as a free agent ends up getting into 60 games charles smith does which is i'm that's impressive i'm sorry that's yeah to come to the nba game so you didn't even get drafted right and then you're playing in 60 games only 82 that's pretty goddamn good yeah he doesn't start any of them but what do you want he's like he's a rookie buried in the on the depth chart uh he plays 8.7 minutes a game so it's a a lot like Georgetown's freshman season, 2.9 points per game.

Even on this team, I'll bet he got more playing time than fucking Joe Klein. I bet he absolutely did. I wish I had Joe Klein's. I wish I would have printed out his stats. This rookie, I'm sure he did. I don't think Joe Klein played 8.7 minutes a game. Not with Parrish and fucking McHale there. Probably not.

So 1.2 rebounds 1.7 assists so I mean a rookie year who knows whatever uh the uh 1990-1991 season the Celtics this year different coach this year Chris Ford uh they go 56 and 26 I don't know who that guy is either I remember Chris Ford I remember that guy for some. This is when I started coming into my own in the NBA. Isn't that the Toronto governor? It's definitely not the Toronto governor. That is Rob Ford. Rob Ford.

Rob Ford, the fat, crack-smoking guy. Yeah, he's a mayor. Yeah, he's not. He's not a governor. Thank fuck, no, they never elected him to a higher office. Some provincial, whatever the fuck they have up there. I don't know. Do you have provincial governors up

there what do you have how do you how does your government structure work you got mayors and then that handsome fuck running the whole thing that's it between between rob ford smoking crack in his mayor's office how far do you get to trudeau and trudeau what's in the middle of those two how how does it how do you get from there to there? I'll bet they're sandwiched and then nothing fucking happens without the queen say so. That's how it works. The mayors go directly to Trudeau and then Trudeau sends a telegram across the sea with a man. He sends it with, there's a special messenger.

He's got a hat with a big plume on it and he brings correspondence back and forth between the queen and the prime minister i feel like that's that's probably how government works and then that's handed down to the mayors and that's that dear queen pray tell pray tell and where does wayne gretzky fit into the structure because i feel like he has a prominent place also is he like i feel like he's like a deity kind of though like if gretzky can overrule the queen, possibly it's that sort of thing. Like, well, well, well, Wayne says no. Queen says yes.

Wayne says no. I don't know. I don't know what to do. I'm very confused. I don't know. Why take the slap shot from center ice to decide the top one? I'm going to take one slap shot and I'm going to go out and I'm going to pray to the moose God and I'm going to hope that slap shot, and then I'm going to go out, and I'm going to pray to the moose god.

And I'm going to hope that the wisdom comes to me. Whatever it is, our system's better. I think it's better. Canadian government with crime and sports. Crime and sports. With a dipshit and a half educated on government. No, yeah, not of Canada, clearly, because I don't know anything about't know anything about that shit no at least we know who's in charge up there i got it listen if your government either if you're if your representative fucks up i know him we know that's the only yeah

and then if he's handsome as fuck i know him outside of that macron and you know him and that's those are the only two world leaders that you're aware of at this point in time it's depressing oh man that's fucking hilarious so other countries get your shit together elect a handsome prime minister and maybe jimmy will pay attention to you i'll recognize that maybe we'll see so uh they uh this year 90 91 season uh they go to the nba playoffs again with like I said, a 56-26 record. Not too shabby. They win in the first round versus Indiana. They play the Pacers, an early Pacer team there.

3-2 in the first round. Then they play the Pistons in 90-90. This is the bad boy Pistons. Nothing's happening for you if you're playing they're the next wave it was boston was the east and then detroit took it from them and then chicago took it from them and that's how it went like in a 10 year 12 15 year period all the east all the time all east that's that was how the east worked and uh they lose in six games to the pistons that's impressive to go six they went six with the pistons which i'm sure bruised and battered and beaten

because those Pistons would beat the shit out of you. Again, I liked them. Yeah, that's the best way sports work. The 90s Knicks are my favorite. I love the 90s Knicks. They will throw your ass into a second row with really no provocation really needed just to let you know that it can happen.

Anything's fair game here. We talked about Anthony Mason, and we will do a charles oakley episode as well i enjoyed that whole roster minus greg anthony and that was only because of his cheap shot that's the only reason but uh 90 91 for charles smith uh he plays in five games okay not terrific he's not there through the playoffs no he only plays in five games six minutes a game 1.8 points so uh you know 1.2 assists it's over already it doesn't really matter december 5th so barely not even halfway through the season he's released by the celtics so he doesn't go on that nice little run he uh has a smaller run and then it's over with very very quickly released by the celtics in 1990 he's got to be floating around

not knowing which end is up at this point i would think uh because you go from being in the nba to not being in the nba it's tough that's a big drop off i would think that's tough i'm trying to like trying to find the equivalent of that in non-sports because like in the nba it's like okay because you can get even if you get it if you're like this is your job, you get fired. You can get a job at another company and it's kind of the same thing doing the same job. But like the NBA, if you're shit can from the NBA, there's no nothing. There's no equivalent to that.

That's it's that. And then you're making 50 bucks a game if you play in some beer league somewhere or the CBA, which is worse to some fucking high school in your hometown going. He made it yeah that's what i mean like for 20 bucks that's tough man that's a really fucking tough drop off giving away autographs it's not even i thought about it like a comedian that has a tv show and then they don't have a tv show anymore but they're still going to sell out their their live shows and they're still at least five ten years yeah they're going to do fine if they had a tv so it's not even that like yeah you don't have the tv show anymore but you can almost wear that as a badge of honor.

Sure, sure. You can be like, it was too good. Yeah, that's what the fucking, anything that's half decent, they're fucking idiots at the network. And everyone goes, oh, yeah, they're stupid. Whereas no one ever goes, oh, yeah, the NBA, they don't know fucking basketball players. Yeah, they don't know shit. All the good players get released by them and picked up by the CBA. Like, that doesn't happen.

There's nothing like it. No. It's just some other sport really that's what that's the only thing that's equivalent it's being cut from another football team or another baseball that's it whatever that's the only thing that's that's like a hundred or two yeah there's there's no you need it's really like mayor up to trudeau it's like there's only one that's there that or that. There's nothing in between. No governmental structure in between the leader and the mayor. So 1991, he ends up playing for the Rockford Lightning of the CBA, which there you go. CBA is not the Canadian Basketball Association as we've gone over a bunch of times. It is the Continental Basketball Association.

And they will pick up anybody. Anybody. bunch of times it is the continental basketball association and they will pick up anybody anybody you could have you could be holding the the handle of a knife that is in somebody's chest as their blood squirts from their aorta and they'd be like you know he's looking good right now that was good form that's that hand-eye coordination we could sign him i'm not saying he's going to start right away but we sign him i think they do not give a fuck they sign jason williams they sign if you're too much of a fuck up for the nba they will absolutely take you on and you'll be a star there can you dribble yeah so the lightning was the oldest team in the cba they were originally the lancaster red roses from uh lancaster pennsylvania and they moved to Rockford and then became the Lightning. And then they became the Rockford Peaches and had Lori Petty pitch for them.

No, they didn't. They ran some great skirts. They ran some wonderful skirts. So they ended up January 20th, 2006. They announced that the team would cease operations. That is a bummer. I wish that that could. Do they not exist anymore?

None of it, right? They're done. They should play in skirts. That'll get us to watch. That would be amazing. We'll giggle our balls off watching dudes run on the street. Well, no. I would watch if they gave them the League of Their Own uniforms like those.

The fucking buttons across the chest. Yeah, the buttons thing, the flap, whatever the hell that breastplate was. It goes from the right to the left and buttons down that side. Yeah, the my boob plate that was like a burlap boob protector i don't know what that was it was weird just in case one pops out this will make sure that that doesn't even just in case although if you got hit in the boob by a fastball that would hurt so maybe you want an extra layer maybe i would think that would be a place where you wouldn't want to get hit with a i don't know if they have boob cups i don't know if they have boob cups. I don't know. Ladies, do they have boob cups in softball?

I don't think so. I don't think so, because I've seen college softball, and those girls are not held in place by very much. So, anyway. It jiggles when they run. They run around? Yeah. No, but they're fine.

No, it's fun. It's just... Yes. It's fun. That's amazing. Most of them don't want anything to do with me but it's fun it's fun though it's still fun it's whether they want anything or not it's not bad it's a shame the uh the the uh rockford lightning there they were runners up in the cba uh multiple times uh they

lost to the dakota wizards and the sioux falls sky force oh no two finals appearances very very very sad uh they did make an attempt to have a new ownership group, but it was unsuccessful. And that's that. They're done. So, March 14th, 1991, the Celtics call back. They sign him to a 10-day contract

to, they have a couple injuries in the backcourt. One more chance. And they say, hey, you want to cop on? They know who he is. He's probably in shape. He's been playing ball. Fucking let's grab him. And your foot's in the doorcourt. One more chance. And they say, hey, you want to cop on? They know who he is. He's probably in shape. He's been playing ball. Fucking let's grab him. And your foot's in the door. As long as your foot is in the door, I think you're good, right? You've got to have that.

Chance. If you don't know when Crystal Pepsi was discontinued, what was in Al Capone's vault, or which famous meteorologist is Lenny Kravitz's second cousin, then you haven't spent enough time on Wikipedia. But that's okay. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden, and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole, from SmartLess Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you'd learn that that's the science-y term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster

as we start out on a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. He's got to be feeling somewhat better about himself if you're off of the Rockford Peaches and you're on to... Laurie Petty's no longer your teammate. Instead, it's Larry Bird now.

That's an upgrade, I would say, as a basketball teammate. Laurie Petty's playing for the fucking Sox now. That would be impressive. So March 21st, 1991, he's a week into a 10-day contract. The Celtics are supposed to take a night flight to Indianapolis for the next day. I'm pretty sure it's Indianapolis. But for some reason, the team decides to not take that flight and take a flight the next morning to go to Indianapolis. I don't know what the reasoning was for the team, but they can shift flights around.

They do that all the time. Of course. It's that flight. Yeah. So they decide to fly out the next morning, which leaves Charles to a night in boston on his own on his lonesome so it's uh 1 45 a.m which is never good no whenever a story starts with it's 1 45 a.m you know there's bad things are gonna fucking happen uh he is driving he went out uh hung out for a while it's a couple bars couple clubs and then he uh is driving a friend of his a former

teammate georgetown teammate over to another friend's house on in another part of boston we'll get to who that is in a minute but it's not important right now okay so uh uh it's uh 1 45 a.m and he's got a rented dodge caravan for some reason why he rented a dodge caravan i have no fucking idea why a young man why a 24 year young man, why a 24-year-old professional athlete is renting a Dodge Caravan, I'm not positive. And he's single at this point? No kids? No, he's single. Just hanging out. I don't know if he expected to have a caravan full of women that they were going to pick up,

or if they went out with multiple people. I don't understand. Maybe he's got a fantasy about being a dad one day, and he's like, I just want to see what this feels like. I just want to try it on for size. Or maybe that's what they had at the rental car place. There's that. Either that or the Ford Festiva.

And he goes, fuck it, give me the bigger one. I'll take the minivan. So either way, he's out with this van. It's a Dodge. And if you remember a Dodge Caravan minivan, it's a minivan, but they're pretty fucking big. It's a big van. It's a big car. It's not with this van uh it's a dodge and if you remember a dodge caravan minivan it's a minivan but they're pretty fucking big yeah it's a big van it's a big car it's not a big van it's a not the size of a van it's a minivan that's a perfect way of putting it perfect way of putting it so uh uh apparently smith was coming up on uh he was driving uh Commonwealth Avenue near Boston University campus at about 145 in the morning.

And apparently there was eight people crossing the street at the time. Oh, God. And he drove his car right through it. He did not stop. He did not stop. There is some discrepancy about whether the light was red and a bunch of stuff we'll get into in a second. But he plowed through where eight people are walking uh two people were hit uh this is two boston university students uh two young ladies uh one co-eds no one uh uh ann t tra trin she's a vietnamese uh her father

as a plant uh runs a poultry plant i believe uh But she's raised very strict Vietnamese and all this. Now she's going to college and she's having a good time. She's from California. And also Michelle Dartley, who is 20 years old also from Ridgewood, New Jersey. These are the two girls that are hit by the car. They were crossing the street. They were hit so hard that they were thrown onto the curb on impact. Apparently, Charles drove about a block further, stopped, paused for a moment.

Looked both ways. Paused and then made a quick U-turn, drove past the site again and kept going. What? Drove away. Fucking took off. Yeah. Two young girls are on the on the curb yeah bleeding hit hard by we'll talk about their injuries it's pretty fucking severe we'll get into it but and

he goes up and you know the process too he drove a block up holy shit i hit something his friends going i think you hit oh my god looking back They stop in the middle of the street, are looking back. He pops a U-turn to drive past it, sees it's bad, and keeps fucking going and guns it and takes off, which is insane. I mean, I don't even know what the mindset is there. There was no texting back then, so what the fuck was he doing? A taxi driver saw him, saw the van hit the women near the crosswalk do the u-turn pause do the u-turn and leave the scene um people two different cars follow him leaving the scene obviously to fucking keep an eye on him the police are called obviously along with paramedics and everything else he ends up being uh apprehended 12 minutes later about a mile away uh trying to get on the

massachusetts turnpike he on the Massachusetts turnpike. He was entering the turnpike. Like I said, people were following him. In the van with him was Benjamin Guillory, who was his roommate from Georgetown and a teammate from Georgetown. He was the one being given a ride. He was questioned by police and released. That guy, he wasn't driving. What the fuck is he?

No, he has nothing to do with it. The front end of the vehicle showed considerable damage. It's a 1991 Caravan. Damage to the front grill, a headlight, and the windshield. Strands of hair were found in the grill, which that's not good. You really got to give somebody hell to get their hair out of them and keep it in the car. Plus, their head hit the grill of the car, man. And that's the minivan that

had like the metal bumper yeah and it was squared off on the front kind of with that grill yeah yeah they're they're fucking hideous you don't want to get hit by one of those metal you know they're big and heavy too you don't want to get hit by one of those the police said quote the officers noted alcoholic beverage on

his breath on Charles Smith's breath there you go yeah he was offered and agreed to take a field sobriety test. He walked a line and recited the alphabet. A few moments later, a witness came and positively identified him in the van. It's like, well, there's not a lot of vans running around with hair in the grill, so we're going to go ahead and probably just guess it's him. Both girls were pronounced dead at Beth Israel Hospital in boston so he killed both of these girls holy shit dead not just injured dead it's fucking insane did he rent this minivan to go drinking and driving because they never pull over a minivan or yeah who the fuck knows wow i don't

know what the fuck he did uh we'll find out. We'll find out his alcohol and whatever else was in his system. We'll talk about it. Yeah. And then drove away from killing two girls. Didn't that's it's one thing to hit them and do a stupid thing that I mean, it's horrible and it happens and whatever. But then you fucking sack up and you try to help the people you just hurt. Right.

And you fucking call an ambulance and you say you did whatever you did. They're going to catch it and it's going to be worse. Yeah. You don't drive away from injured people and act like it never happened. That's insane. It's going to ruin your life for sure. I had a friend in high school that hit one of our co-eds, sisters, and the little girl died and it ruined his fucking life.

But rightfully so. That's what I mean. You take the consequences of the pay attention yeah that's the thing you hit somebody on a fucking street in your car they're not gonna be okay drive away no he did well that's what i mean even at least he stayed there like a fucking like like yeah at least he stayed there like like an adult you know what i mean i mean jesus christ this guy said fuck it i'm driving away man i you know i i got three days left of my celtic contract i gotta go This is ridiculous.

The Trin family here, we found out a little bit about them. The other family isn't so public in the press, but the Trin family, their sister, Anne's sister was kind of the spokesman to the press because they don't speak very good English, the parents from what I hear. The sister said, quote, my parents are devastated. We all loved her so much. They got a phone call from the hospital very good english parents from what i hear uh the sister said quote my parents are devastated we all

loved her so much uh they got a phone call from the hospital saying that uh she'd been taken there after the accident her sister said quote the doctors were taking her into surgery so we all prayed i prayed that if she lived i'd be a better person that i'd stop doing this and that but she didn't so she's a worse person now piece of'm a piece of shit now. Now she says she just fucking pushes old ladies over, steals their purses. She just has a vendetta for God now. Does 80 in a minivan. It's very sad. She's just turned into a serial killer.

So they said how she had everything to live for. She had family, friends. She was apparently an honors student. And she was very, very intelligent, really smart. She was in the psychology program at boston university uh very studious also like you know music and that sort of thing she's from california she went to cal state fullerton for a little bit and then transferred to boston university she was going to study journalism and then traded her major into

psychology so uh yeah girl she's very smart very smart trying to really be educated it's an immigrant family with a smart girl that sent her to bu which is a really good school and it's the american dream and then this asshole comes and hits her with a car and drives away like a dick so she knew all kinds of stuff about canadian government probably i bet she knew exactly who took the messages from ford to trudeau she would know. She was stood here calling us assholes. Yeah, you dumb fucks. If it hadn't been for this fucking jerk. So, yeah. Jesus.

So the police, once they get there, they run his license. They show that his license has been suspended. He's on a suspended license. Shouldn't even be driving to begin with. What an asshole. And it's only due to an unpaid parking ticket. Pay your fucking parking ticket and get your license. So he doesn't even have a license.

So, A, he shouldn't be driving. One, who rented him a fucking car with no license that's a good point no valid license i don't know if in 1991 it was a lot easier to rent a car apparently yeah i can't he's not even 25 right that's the other thing 24 years old and just with a valid id they're just like sure take it sure that's your picture that looks like you no problem he's not 25 he has no fucking valid license and they rent him a car what is happening uh his blood alcohol level this is interesting here uh he voluntarily gave his license and all that he was cooperating once they pulled him over his blood alcohol level is 0.06 point now this is a we're

in a weird gray area here sticky at the time the uh legal drunk driving level in massachusetts 0.10 yep that's what it all used to be and then it's gone to 0.18 and then it's gone to if you've smelled alcohol in the last three weeks you're drunk if it's been near you 0.08 you said 0.18 yeah yeah yeah 0.08 is what i meant yeah 0.08 point yeah they've gone down down down retract your thumb from that phone we don't need it we flipped a drop of beer on your pants a month ago you're now drunk is what it is now so uh anyway uh that's why we don't want to do fucking uh public service announcements right there podcast one that's the reason why because

it's just we're not the guys for it we it's a horrible serious thing you don't want us talking about it we're comedians my drink while doing this. Find someone who does. Yeah. Find someone who is serious in the world. We're not. We're comedians. So anyway, his blood alcohol level is 0.06. Now, 0.05, the way they do it in Massachusetts, 0.05 and below, the person is considered not impaired at all.

Okay. Okay. 0.10 and above is impaired as fuck no matter what. And 0.06 to 0.09 is a judgment call. That's where. You were the discretion. Yes. That is where police can presume alcohol has been consumed, obviously, and they can charge

a person with drunken driving based on their actions and their judgment. Yeah. If they pull you over and they feel like it, then you're arrested at that point. And it's like that here now? Yeah. Where. They can arrest you if you have no blood alcohol they're just yeah they're just like we thought he's on something so he's arrested here uh he's arrested he immediately pleads not guilty uh to charges of vehicular homicide uh drunk driving leaving the scene of a personal

injury crime and a couple others that they're going to add on later on. But that's the immediate one. He's released on $100,000 personal recognizance after his arraignment, and they set a court date for later on in May. So, yeah, this is, wow. He issues, Charles issues a statement immediately through his lawyer that day, that afternoon, the next day. He's going to beg to keep his job. Wow, he's got to fucking

try to he's got some damage control too i mean this just looks terrible uh this now this is too this is before the major drunk driving thing too there was still the friends don't let friends drive drunk and all that shit but it wasn't like it is now right now it's like if someone if someone has three beers and drives people are just like like they just took a baby and popped its head off in the middle of the street and spiked it on the ground. Like literally, that's how people are. I'm talking normal people. Your friends will be like that. Whereas back then it was like, ah, you'll get home.

It was just a different time. It doesn't mean it's better or right. I'm just saying it was different. It was like that through 2000. It wasn't considered like it is now. It took a while for it to get to where it is now but now it's i mean now it's severe so but i mean well now they've gone too far yeah i feel and i get that yes people die and this is a perfect example of it and all that sort of thing but now it's it's a you can kill someone a lot but you if you didn't you didn't that's the thing that we don't get and i'm not going to get into the fucking whatever of this the finer points of this but you're you're you're

treating someone as if they have done something that they actually didn't do because that could have happened which isn't really how we judge things in the world the same way with everything it's kind of the other if i eat a bunch of m&ms are you going to yell at me because i might get diabetes yeah that's what i mean it's it's a weird thing so whatever it doesn't matter it's just different now and it's it's better that less people drive drunk let's let's just say that it's the the less people driving drunk the fucking better so uh he ends up uh issuing a statement through dennis j kelly who is his attorney and his statement is that he is quote devastated by the unfortunate accident and wishes to extend his sincere,

heartfelt sympathies to the families of the two young women who were killed. That's a disgusting statement. It's a disgusting statement, but it's one you have to make. Yeah. You have to. There's no choice. I mean, you've got to say way more than that. You've got to say way more than that. But I think that's, I assume his attorney is like, that's what we're putting out.

You're sorry. You feel sympathy, and that's enough. They said, too, he didn't travel to the next morning. He doesn't travel with the team. He's got shit to do. He's busy. They said it was uncertain what his status would be with the team at that point, the Celtics said. The Celtics coach, Chris Ford, said, quote, the entire team is saddened by this news and feels deep sympathy for the families of the students.

Of course, everyone on the team expresses their concern for charles at this time deepest regrets in the most uh fortunate unfortunate incident that happened this morning so they're all trying they're all like they're all hedging their bets though they're all none of them are like that's he's a fucking asshole they're all like well you know we'll find out comes out yeah let's see how his dribble does next week i feel like it's very silver in this case. But also, too, I mean, they're not going to throw a guy out. Whatever. So the general manager of the Celtics said that he spoke to Smith and, quote,

conveyed to him their emotional support in this most difficult time. I bet the girls' families could probably use uh maybe you should have made that phone call some emotional support as well uh his agent here lewis cunningham charles's agent said that he was charles was remorseful about the accident and lewis said quote i think he would have much preferred to die himself than for anything to have happened to those girls well yeah that's what they said and i will in fact i will say this about charles smith and this whole thing, this and a couple outside of a couple incidents that this seems completely an aberration for him. Like he is considered a good guy. Everybody says he's a good guy.

He's a helpful teammate. He's a nice guy. He does charity shit. He does work with kids. He's not a fucking asshole. And the players, too. They're like, you know, that that guy's kind of what everyone was like. That's not the guy you expect to hear this about and everybody said that like he's the last guy on

the team you'd expect this shit from so it's it's an odd thing that he wait till you hear the end of this stick around to the end of the story because you're just like where the fuck did that come from in your whole life so but i mean jeffrey dahmer's neighbors probably said he was quiet too yeah that's true not saying that he's jeffrey dom everyone in school said he's a fucking weirdo right they spent any time with them they travel with him they sit in the locker room with him and they're all like no he's a solid dude like i don't understand this shit he was just there once in a while passing through waving so the gacy made a hell of a fried chicken well yeah they also said he was a quite a personable fella you're a very Gacy-like fella.

You know what I mean? You could have boys buried somewhere. I'm not sure. If you do, I have to do an episode on you. I'm sorry. I apologize. So while he is awaiting all of the consequences of this, and while this is all floating, he signs with another basketball team.

Really? He's got to play ball still still he's got to make a paycheck so uh this is uh this is gone from the celtics they let that 10-day contract expire and they're not anxious to renew it odd odd weird they didn't have a full year contract they're waiting for him did they come out say the streets of boston are now safe yeah everything're good. Resigned. So he ends up signing with the Albany Sharpshooters. Oh, that's not the same team. That is not even close to the Boston Celtics. The Albany Sharpshooters of the Global Basketball Association. Now, my first question is, you have the entire globe and you pick fucking Albany? That's number one.

That's not global. If we're talking a global thing, Albany is not on the list, my friend. Well, you know, Paris, Milan, London, Tokyo, and Albany we're going to do. Technically, Albany is on the globe. Yeah, I mean, no. I don't even know if that's Albany, New York, or Albany, Georgia. I'm not even fucking sure. But it's bullshit.

The Albany Sharpshooters he signs with here. Wow. So he leads the league in scoring. Wow. As he should, being a former NBA star and a fucking all-American Georgetown player and everything. So good for you. Woo-hoo. You lead the league with the Albany Sharpshooters, the Global Basketball Association, which, by the way, shut down after this year.

Of course. The whole league, not just the team. Stupid. 1992, he has a daughter. Uh-oh. Yeah, because that's what you need right now when your life is in turmoil and shambles and up in the air and awaiting possibly going to prison and everything else.

He did take two girls off the planet. So he's replacing. I'm going to put one back on it. Good for him. He named, sir. I'm going to say Shayla or Sheila. I'm not sure. S.H.E.Y.L.A. How bananas would that have been if he named her Ann?

And oh, no, no. Named her some Vietnamese shit on the birth certificate. So 91 through 94, he doesn't play much after that Albany sharpshooters thing. And we'll find out why he doesn't play. He has court. Oh, boy. He has court. Now, he is facing, when he goes to court, he is facing, if convicted of the charges

up front, which is vehicular manslaughter, he is facing 20 years in prison for each vehicular manslaughter charge and 15 years for each count of motor vehicle homicide. Oh, boy. So he's facing a good 70 years in the pen. I mean, if that's if it was all consecutive. And I mean, you know, that's if the judge really wanted to fucking bang him and whatever. being the felony drunk driving charges end up being exonerated of because they can't. No matter what, they can charge him with like a vehicular homicide, but they can't charge him with a felony drunk driving if his blood alcohol is actually under the limit.

Got it. So they get rid of that charge because they know they can't win it. Now, there's conflicting claims of this night. There's a lot of witnesses that saw this. This was on the street. They don't know whether he was speeding. That's the other thing. Some people say he was speeding.

Some people say he wasn't speeding. They don't know whether the traffic light was red or green. That's the other thing. Once this happened, everything went haywire, and everybody lost their track. Yeah, you're not looking up when there's bodies everywhere. So they didn't know if they were jaywalking and he went and just wasn't paying attention. Just figured green light and kept going. Or if, you know, get the fuck out of the street.

I don't know what it is. Or if he blew a red light, just totally blew it. And they were going with the walk signal. Who knows? So that's all up in the air. But everybody that comes up and basically says in court that he's a good he's always been a good guy. He's always been a good citizen. He's always been a good citizen. He's popular with teammates.

He's a good student. Even at Georgetown, he was a good student. He earned a sociology degree from Georgetown. He was always considered a quiet, reserved, studious type of guy that nobody thought anything bad of. John Thompson came to court. Really? John Thompson came to court with his that

big motherfucker in court that voice booming through a courtroom that's awesome that is he could be he could be a judge i would listen to him tell me you wouldn't listen to john thompson judging some shit be like okay let him do anything okay yes sir you are giant and loud and scary i love you so uh he said that uh that uh georgetown he was a great player for him he had an excellent reputation there with everybody he found and also he said in court he found it quote extremely difficult to believe charles could knowingly hit anybody and drive away which we know he did so it's difficult as whether you believe it or not he stopped looked at it and kept fucking driving so i don't think he missed uh two bloody girls on a curb no so yeah but they all showed up said you know that's why

i chose him for the olympic team because he could represent our country as much as on the court and blah blah blah and all that horse shit which you know you got to say it's gonna nice things yeah that's gonna be sad uh his defense lawyer here dennis ke, kept the same one, also said another vehicle, their excuse was that another car prevented Charles from seeing the people crossing the street. He said there was another car blocking his view. I don't know if the car was in front of him. Whatever the case may be, that's the excuse of it. He didn't see the people, which no one thinks he ran them down on purpose.

I don't think there's a soul on earth who said shit cool crosswalk full of chicks i'm gonna fucking gas that shit no one thinks that so whether he did whether it was a red light wasn't painted none of that shit matters the problem is that he drove away right that's the that's my main issue with him i mean once something happens it happens but fuck man uh so he said yeah couldn't see uh also uh uh the the his lawyer asks in the end in his thing he wants a suspended sentence from this whole thing saying that charles uh has spent so much time working with children and still has a lot to offer back to the community that's what he said i'm sure that's true uh district attorney though thomas mundy told

jurors in his closing arguments that uh smith left the students to quote die in the gutter and that his actions were absolutely obscene and disgusting to die in the gutter that sounds bad that's a good prosecutor especially after you've shown big blown up pictures of these girls in their joyous time smiling high school graduation that whole thing and you're like he snuffed out two innocent lives and left them to die in the gutter. A family that doesn't speak English that are an American dream story. Yeah, these poor people came here with nothing and had a daughter who's... I mean, just...

You could really lay it on there. Tears flowing. You could bring a violinist in and people wouldn't even think twice about it. They go, no, that's it. This is good accompaniment. It's appropriate. Yeah, it would just be so the jurors in the end, they find they find. Well, also, too, he brought in.

We'll get to that in a second. The jurors end up finding him innocent of manslaughter, which is the most serious charge. And they make no finding on whether he was drunk because there's another charge for there. The jury was not allowed to hear expert testimony about the significance of his blood alcohol level, which was because this is the problem. It's.06 two hours after the accident. He passed a field sobriety test, but if you drink a lot and you're drunk, you can pass a field sobriety test but if you drink a lot and you're drunk you can pass a field sobriety test that's alcoholics yeah are they function when they're drunk i don't

know if he's an alcoholic i'm not making that accusation a couple field ones that i but for sure was probably should have been to jail but that's not good no jesus jimmy stop doing that so he not recently no obviously not recently yeah everybody save your tweets this was 15 fucking years ago when he was doing other shit that was stupid enough already. It was way worse than that. So this was two hours later, though. So two hours is a long time. That's at least two drinks that your body digests.

Fuck, man. That's a long period. So they're saying that it would have been at least 0.10 percent is what prosecutors are trying to say but they wouldn't allow that testimony because there's no way to scientifically know exactly how fast his body processes alcohol so but he was fucking hammered let's be honest here he was drunk he was drunk and he fucking plowed through some girls uh probably not paying attention so uh uh his georgetown coach here john thompson because they find him guilty of some shit here and so they're they're going to sentencing quickly uh john thompson

comes in and also celtics chief executive dave gavitt all appeared as character witnesses for him this is what i mean this is a petition signed by 300 people from albany georgia from the albany sharpshooters from their fans and organizational people in the community that he's worked with and all this shit. Kids and shit all was presented on his behalf. But on the other hand, that's all nice and dandy but then at the same time, the

victim's families get to make a statement which kind of puts all of that meaning a lot less. They had, one of them was very angry here. An uncle of the Dartley girl shouted at Smith, quote, do you see their pictures? Do you see them? And Dartley's mother screamed at another one,

bring back Michelle, bring her back. So it was, it's not good. Not good at all. They were yelling at people who were testifying for him as a character witness. Smith actually, in court uh makes a statement to their to the victim's families uh he says quote uh we were praying for you all to be able to get through this no matter what happens uh he said i will always be praying for you that's

what he said to the family which i don't think that helps much now uh the judge in this case he's got more shit to say sure say uh he says he compliments him on his life he said that you're that the life that smith's life before this has been remarkable is the word he used uh they talked about his childhood bringing being shitty and having a poor upbringing and all that he said you overcame that you went to a good college you graduated from college which not all athletes do. You became a professional basketball player. That's terrific. You work with kids.

Awesome. But he also said that he's guilty of a, quote, horrible error in judgment that cost two lives. And he said that he, quote, has no choice but to incarcerate you. He did say the judge said, quote, I do not intend to destroy you, though. So that's not bad. Thoughtful. He rejected a prosecution recommendation for nine years, rejects that, and he says, you, sir, may fuck off. Four and a half year sentence he gets for this.

Convicted of vehicular homicide and leaving the scene of an accident. Shit. Four and a half years in prison he gets for this, which is not fucking bad. I'm sorry. It's not bad, but it's not good. No, I mean, he could have he could have got a lot more yeah very easy i don't think anybody would have batted a fucking eye at it nobody would have felt bad after that yeah um so he sent to prison after that no uh released on your own recognizance now uh he serves uh the they call it south bay it's the one uh i can't remember the name of the prison here. It's near City Hospital there.

He says, Smith says, Jesus Christ, he says, let's do an in their own words here on this. Let's do an in their own words and find out exactly what he says. He says in their own words, quote, my whole life changed then. I'm not a bad person. It's not something I tried to do. I wish I could do something to change what happened, but I can't. It was something that could happen to anyone. True. Well, anyone also. It helps if you're driving with the blood alcohol level high. Oh, by the way, didn't mention this.

He didn't mention it. Back then, they didn't make a big deal out of it. He was taking fucking codeine also. So he's drinking and taking codeine at the same time because he had a bad tooth, he said. So he was on codeine, and they didn't even make a big deal about that at the truck. Nowadays, that would have been a huge deal. Oh, it's ridiculous. So you were on booze and codeine at the same time because he had a bad tooth he said so he was on codeine and they didn't even make a big deal about that at the truck nowadays that would have been a huge deal so you were on booze and codeine mixed together then it was like oh well he had a little whatever that's fine worry about the booze he's running surf back then so he's got he's doing he's drinking and and having codeine in the system which means he's pretty fucked up oh yeah it's

pretty fucked up so uh not terrific there uh he was embarrassed of being in prison he asked that his family not visit him in jail uh to see him he said uh he said he could stick it out and he couldn't but he couldn't handle having his family see him like that um just you know in prison i would say which is not a it's a vulnerable time you're not at your best i would say he said i called them every week but i wouldn't be i wouldn't have been able to handle it if they came up if i saw them i would want to go home with them and i knew that that wasn't going to happen so i only let them come once well that's selfish now yeah he turned it into himself he turned it into yeah it's all about me the one exception

one exception that he let them come was after Reggie Lewis's funeral. Really? Reggie Lewis, the Boston Celtics star, died. He had a weird heart problem. I think that's the only time we ever saw a man die on court. Well, it wasn't during a game. It was during a practice. Was it? Yeah, he just dropped in practice.

Are you sure that wasn't a game? No, I'm pretty positive. Because I saw it happen. He just dropped in practice. Not on TV. No. I saw it on SportsCenter. Well, they probably had footage of him falling down.

I'm sure they did. Was that practice? They taped footage. They taped practices. I mean, I'm sure they had it. It felt like that was a game. But I thought it on sports center. Well, they probably had footage of him falling down. They tape footage. They tape practices. I mean, I'm sure they had it. It felt like that was a game. But I thought it was. Either way, he dropped dead.

He had a weird heart problem and some congenital weird thing going on in his heart. Nothing he could have done about it. It exploded or whatever the fuck happened to it. So he said it was the funeral for Reggie Lewis. My mom and sister went to the service for him to represent him because he was actually really good friends with Reggie Lewis. Reggie Lewis came to visit him in prison. Oh, really?

On multiple occasions, including a week before he died. Really? He came to visit him. Also, Patrick Ewing came to visit him. What? Patrick Ewing because he was a Georgetown guy that he knew and he didn't even play with Patrick Ewing. He came the year after Ewing left but there's you know they give back

yeah Dikembe Mutombo Alonzo Mourning, Reggie Williams these guys all stopped by multiple times not just once they would come and visit him all the time in jail Sherman Douglas who we talked about he said he took a cab a cab could come see him a bunch of times

to see him it's insane so all these people went to see him a bunch of times to see him. It's insane. That's bananas. All these people went to see him all the time. Also, Larry Bird came to see him. No way. Robert Parrish, Kevin Gamble, Chris Ford, Jan Volk, who's the executive, the coach, Dave Gavitt, who's the top executive, ML Carr. All these guys are all top level executives and they came a lot.

Some people came, they said some people came once, people like Reggie Lewis came all the time and like Ewing was there a bunch of times. Larry Bird came a couple of times. Like these guys were just, let's stop by the prison and see Charles. Like that's what I mean where he has to be a decent guy for, I mean, in context, obviously. Yeah, they all feel bad for him because he made a terrible decision. We don't hear this a lot with athletes. Once they're in jail, they're like, oh, yeah, that guy's a fuck up and whatever.

But they're all like going. We never hear all of these top tier athletes going to visit a guy in prison. It's so fucking weird. Everybody going to visit Michael Vick. No, that's what I mean. So that's why it's a weird thing. Charles said, quote, Reggie, Reggie Lewis, came to see me four days before he died. I was so glad I saw him one more time.

So, yeah, he said they talked about basketball and shit like that. And that was about it. You could have saved his life, sir. You should tell him to go get his heart checked out. Yeah. How are you feeling there? How's your ticker doing? Feel all right?

A little weird. Your tone's a little gray. Let me ask you a question. You got a good rhythm going on? That's all I'm asking in your chest here. Yeah, so they wouldn't let him attend the funeral, obviously. He said there was no special treatment in prison, none of that. He said plenty of other prisoners had friends who died,

and they didn't get to go to the funeral, so he was fine with that. He said that he had a hard time. One guy, the ML Carr, he said, quote, when I first went to see Charles, I sensed he had a feeling of shame. That was the shock of how did I get here? And I think he adjusted the best he could. But after a couple of times, I felt it was better to write than visit. It felt bad for him. John Thompson also, John Thompson told Charles to call him collect every day.

He said, you call me every day, collect, and I'll talk to you. He said the first time Smith did, he said that Thompson broke down and cried. John Thompson said, I couldn't help but cry on the phone with him. He said, quote, I found it easier to write him a note. So that's what Charles said about John Thompson because he didn't want to hear his coach be upset.

So he didn't call him anymore. He said that Peepa's friends were worried about how he would fare in prison, if they would fuck with him or how it would work um he the only thing they said that he got special treatment was like when patrick ewing came to visit they give him a special room to meet in well yeah but that was more for patrick ewing because they didn't want everybody safety exactly they didn't want people bothering him and clogging up the way you know the clogging up the works of the prison here also you know larry bird comes to prison got to take him in a separate room, probably.

How about we don't get a filed down toothbrush in Larry Bird's lap? Larry Bird between his fourth and fifth rib. I'm sure that these people gamble on games. And if the guy that is, quote, unquote, responsible for that, he's losing you all your ramen noodles, right? God damn it. Jesus Christ. The one guy, his friend said quote you know

anything can happen in there about prison uh quote obviously he was going to get attention i was just hoping he wouldn't get special treatment because that can cause you problems too that's true and that's true too and he said he didn't uh he uh the whole time he's there he uh there's no he has no incidents no uh disciplinary measures no fights nothing like that uh they said that they they watch him closely they watched they said they this prison is pretty well watched and uh also they said said smith fit in very well also uh he took a job uh tutoring inmates for their uh ged the high school equivalency test so he did that he signed up for the gym so he could play some basketball uh he did a course on drafting and printing.

He's not an idiot. He has a fucking sociology degree from Georgetown. He's bettering himself a little bit. He has way more education than I do. So, I mean, whatever. He made some friends with some guys. We'll talk about some prison buddies. A guy named John Lewis, who's a weightlifter.

He said he played dominoes with another guy named louis barboza he organized basketball basketball games with a guy named frank horn and he says uh frank horn could definitely play in the cba tomorrow he said he's that good he said uh the barboza guy that he was hanging out with louis barboza his domino partner says quote charles stayed to himself in the beginning but you couldn't interpret it as snobbish it was never it was never I'm better than you I'm an NBA star when you try to use your status to get special treatment that will get you hurt in here real quick

so he came in calm and cool and just kept to himself which was the best way to go about it the only thing that they said they gave him a little extra private time in the gym to do drill work before everybody came to the court to play basketball because that would be a mess and just 100 guys playing basketball so give him

like 10 minutes to do some like actual drills that he did maybe do like dribbling drills and you know he knew how to practice he's been a ball player for a long time set up some cones set up some cones yeah seriously uh he says smith said quote i would have never believed there would be so many talented people in prison. Printers, artists, writers, barbers, they could do something with their lives. He said of his cellmates, quote, they have talent. Frank Horn can play basketball. I told him I'd help him when he gets out.

That's the idea. Around this country, no matter what place you go to, there are people that are talented. They just don't use that for for gain they use other means which sometimes is illegal and they get caught that's what happens and sometimes they get lucky and their podcast works you never fucking know that's the thing who the hell knows who knows what we'd be doing if it wasn't for this sometimes an artist pay doesn't make any fucking money so they've got to go do something else that's the thing now that horn guy uh was scheduled to be released a little later, but he said that he appreciates

Charles optimism, but he doesn't think he's going to have a basketball career. He said, quote, Charlie was always wondering what kind of life we'd have when we got out. It particularly bothered him with the younger kids. He'd tutor them, watch them get out, then read the paper how they were in more serious trouble than before. That's one of the examples of how he was out of place there. He didn't understand how it works for most guys. He didn't get that.

He figured this guy's talented. He's getting out. Oh, he's going to do great now. And then he'd be like, oh, shit, they're back. What the fuck, man? He robbed the bank? That's crazy. That's the cycle.

That's it. They're not NBA players. Which you'd think he would understand being from D.C. Right. But no. That's a sociology major. That is sociology. He should know. Yeah, he would understand being from D.C. But no sociology made a sociology. Yeah. He would know that shit.

The John Lewis guy, who he said has lots of talent that he was talking about. He ends up being picked up two weeks after he gets out of jail on a charge of assault with a dangerous weapon and was arraigned there. It's it's a mess, man. there uh it's it's a mess man uh yeah he uh they basically said uh that uh one of the guys said i give charles all the credit possible for walking into our world and being able to walk out just as strong so he does two and a half years uh he's released in july of 1994 after 28 months so not quite two and a half years uh which four and a half that's a a lot, man. He's released from prison. He's offered a job as boys basketball coach at Spring Arn High School in Washington, D.C. right away. That's nice of him.

That's nice of him. Hey, you just got out of jail for killing teenagers. Would you like to coach some instead? None of them are girls. They weren't teenagers. They were 20. Sorry, much different. Barely not teenagers.

Barely not teenagers. He said that maybe uh, maybe later, but not yet. He said he has decided he wanted to give basketball another try. Uh, he says he wants to restore his life. Uh, he says he feels that he's sorry that, that, that those two young women couldn't do that. And he says, quote, I pray for their families every day. They tell him, uh, for them to forgive me. I pray for them to forgive me. Yeah. He said he said some days about in prison. Some days I said I was going to play ball and then I'd say no. So he was very like didn't know what he wanted to do.

Gets out of prison. Ninety four. Ninety five. He's in a bunch of different leagues here. We'll talk about that. He played basketball whenever he could. He played summer basketball with a bunch of old Georgetown guys like Ewing and Morning and all that kind of guy. All that kind of shit.

He ends up playing in Rockford for a minute again, back with the Peaches. And then he's traded to the Hartford Hellcats of the CBA as well. He says, quote, I work as hard as I can every day and I hope I'll get the NBA chance someday. I work as hard as I can every day, and I hope I'll get the NBA chance someday. Now, the coach of the team, of the Hellcats, said, There are some guys in the NBA now getting second, third, fourth chances. Smitty's paid dearly. He'll never forget that.

It will be with him the rest of his life. He's going to try to make the best of it. He's trying. So the coach is trying to put, he's like, I don't care. He's so much better than all these other pieces of shit I have. I don't care what he did. I don't it doesn't matter killing old ladies great good they don't have that much time left anyway next i could make an excuse for anything you throw at me what do you got uh he says uh smith though he says he knows he can never change uh what happened and he says in their own words let's do it in their own words here and see how he justifies this.

He says in their own words, quote, when I was incarcerated, my plan all along was to continue playing. But then I got out and my mind started playing tricks on me. I asked the Lord when I was in prison to give me the strength to deal with everything when I got out. It's something that has scarred me for life. Yeah. You and everybody else, too. You and their families. You and a couple of families. There's a lot of people scarred me for life yeah you and everybody else too you and their families and there's a lot of people scarred from this uh yeah there were 10 other people that

night that could have been in that fucking cross that's what i mean yeah what are they thinking shit that guy just missed me uh so he goes to play with the hartford hellcats uh who also were the connecticut pride and uh with hartford hell it's a big difference. Connecticut Pride, Hartford Hellcats. You really change shit a lot. They previously also known as the Albany Patroons. As we've talked about many for some reason the Albany Patroons have come up a lot.

The Capital Region Pontiacs and then the Hartford Hellcats. And they joined the International Basketball League when the CBA folded in 2000-2001. So that's what happened there. He makes the CBA All-Star team with Hartford. Look at this.

So look at you. Back on an upswing. Back on the upswing. Grace, too. So he says, it's not in their own words on this one, it's short. He says, it feels good to be back playing ball again. He he says the team is starting to come along and win some games and i feel like i'm coming along pretty good i didn't feel i had the if i didn't feel i had the ability to play in the nba i wouldn't be here now so he's trying to get his life back together i'm sure he's

living in hartford yeah he's playing for the fucking Hellcats. First of all, how do you gather your shit from prison? I'm saying just you get out of prison, and then you have to, first of all, figure out how to do basketball and how to do shit, but then you have nothing left. He was renting a car, and he had a car. He's got to get a, I don't think he can get a driver's license. He's got to get things together.

He's got to get an apartment. He's got to get food. He's got to get, like, toilet paper holders and practical, like, logistical shit. He's got to get an apartment. He's got to get food. He's got to get like toilet paper holders and practical, like logistical shit. That is the hardest part of life. It's so hard to figure all that out, especially if you're trying to play basketball. You're not making a lot of money. You're a convicted felon.

You're a convicted felon. You got a lot of bad things going for you. And the one thing you don't have time to do at that point is interior design on your house. You just don't have time. So luckily, somebody can sense when people are in trouble. And he came knocking at the door. And it's Dexter Manley, interior decorator from New York City. And he says. How is it you've come to arrive here? I mean, seriously, like you. OK, let's start let's calm down first of all

don't get all don't get all in a titter about the whole thing i understand i i understand losing to yugoslavia is weighing heavily on you i get that but you had it all you went to georgetown georgetown is nice it's beautiful in dc i love it so those old lofts to decorate they're very nice we change colors in the spring oh they change colors. It's beautiful. It snows there. It's got everything. It's the capital. Everything's happening. It's wonderful. The world is your oyster. And then what do you do? You have some drinks

and codeine? What is codeine? What are you drinking codeine? You're a professional. You, sir, are white trash. I'm sorry. You're white trash. It's white trash. I'm sorry. You're drinking codeine and alcohol and just driving around in the middle of the night, all trashy, like playing for the Rockford Peaches. I just, this whole thing, this apartment is beneath me, by the way.

I don't, what is this, 700 square feet? It's very small. It feels dingy in here. I smell mold. Goodbye. Just goodbye. And poof. And he's gone in a poof of cheetah skin and purple feathers and glitter.

He is gone, and Charles is way confused now. He said, Danny Ferry? Danny Ferry come visit my ass again? Shit. Damn. He got smaller. Motherfucker shrunk. Danny Ferry.

That's amazing so july 95 january 1995 the fluff piece starts the fluff pieces start and they start fast and furious man uh there's one about how he must grapple with the mistake he made and that you know he's dealing with this his whole life and this is a sentence for him too and it's just it's just horrible we got to do an in their own words on this because it's kind of self-serving so i think it's uh it's it's good time to do it in their own words quote there will always be a scar i wish there was something i could do to bring the victims back but all i can do is pray every night for their families i think about it all the time it has been very difficult mentally and i pray i have the strength to deal with it

my situation could have happened to anyone to you to the people reading the story i know i'm not a bad person i wouldn't wish this experience on the worst people or their families the hardest part is how it affects your family you wouldn't no apparently not whenever someone says i know i'm not a bad person that's that's not a good sign but outside of this night he's never displayed behavior of a bad person that's the fucked up part i wish that on some bad people yeah i'd wish that yeah i'd wish a bad person kills two other bad people that would be great three birds with one stone that's not bad now you're talking unfortunately i don't think these girls are bad people no so uh more fluff they talk about uh uh his uh his coaches from cba say quote he's very strong for a guy that's skinny he's so good

uh they said he's clearly too good for the cba he had uh one night that week he had 25 points and 18 assists and then he had 28 points and nine rebounds they're talking about his stats and he's an all-star it's just just, what's going on? It doesn't matter. Your crime is too public. You took the lives. He may be too good for them. That may be true.

He's just not good enough for the NBA. They can't do that anymore. He's great for the CBA. That's terrific. And then they ask him about, was it good playing with the Celtics back then? He's like, what the fuck do you think is his answer? What do you think? It's a goddamn NBA with a championship team. think is his answer? What do you think? It's a goddamn NBA with a championship team, you dummies.

What do you think? It was so great. Larry Bird came to visit me after I murdered people. Jesus. He said, quote, it was an unbelievable experience. I played with four or five guys who are going to be in the Hall of Fame. I learned a lot from them all. Unfortunately, not how to drive.

That's the only thing he forgot how to learn. He says the CBA, he likes to call it the league of dreams he said people have come through this ranks the coaches that have come through phil jackson george carl uh john starks and anthony mason both came from there and made it in the nba and he goes through a bunch of other people elliot perry and donald royal and you know those people the hustlers no they didn't i don't think any of them killed anybody ran over anybody in a fucking street no not at, not at all. Not at all.

His coach says, quote, we're here to give guys second chances who didn't get drafted, guys who weren't with the right team, who weren't skilled enough when they came out of college, and guys like Smitty and murderers. Anyway, opportunity, not quite the right fit, killed a guy last week, whatever. We'll take it all. The CBA, the Silver's League going. not quite the right fit killed a guy last week whatever we'll take it all the end the cba the silver sleek going you want silver-haired middle-aged white men the home of them are right here at the cba you're damn right whatever shit you throw out we'll fucking plaster it on the court here wow uh he ends up to go on to play for the Omaha Racers, which were based in Omaha, Nebraska, obviously.

They were the Wisconsin Flyers. Then they were in Rochester, Minnesota. And then they became the Racers down in Omaha. Very fucking exciting here. They ended up going out of business when the CBA did. Also, he plays for the Florida Sharks and the Florida Beach Dogs, which are probably the same team. They were originally the Rapid City Thrillers, which they call a semi-professional basketball team. Semi?

Semi. I don't know what's up with that. Very, very strange. They can trace their history back to when they were the Tampa Bay Thrillers, which is amazing. And then they changed to Florida in 87. They moved to West Palm Beach where they became the Florida Beach Dogs. Then they finally folded

after losing to the Oklahoma City Cavalry one year and they were defunct in 2000. I love the history of these teams. That always cracks me up, the history of these teams now. October 5th, 1995 signs as a free agent with the Philadelphia 76ers. No kidding.

No shit. He got back in. They fucking signed him as a free agent. How amazing is that? That's insane. He hasn't even played in three years. No kidding. He killed a guy, but he's got so highly touted that there's probably people going,

come on, give this guy a chance. There's probably a bunch of people in their GM's ears going, this guy, man, give him a chance. Signs as a free agent, but that's a 10-day deal. And October 13th, 95, he's waived by the 76ers. That's enough. That didn't last long. We've seen plenty. That's eight days.

They were like, we keep him anymore, he's going to kill somebody. That's how it works with those deals. December 5th, 95, though, less than two months later he is uh signed as a free agent with the minnesota timberwolves okay we're terrible in the mid 90s and they needed fucking help with somebody uh they had kevin garnett tom googleata christian latner you know a bunch of guys who should be good andrew lang yeah a bunch of these guys were like well that no it's not terry terry porter sam mitchell jr rider that's a great team. Playing with our buddy Isaiah Ryder, too. Not bad.

Sean Rooks. I remember him. He was great. He was good. Yeah. And Charles Smith, of course. Spud Webb also on that team. My Christ.

Yeah, Spud. You got the Spudster on that team. Everybody's recognizable except him. Except him. That's right. Team is not that good. They fire their head coach in the beginning of the season. Was that Carl?

No, it was Bill Blair. And they bring in Flip Saunders, who was there for a long time. Kevin McHale is their GM. So that is the reason why he is signed. Now it makes sense. Yes. And I'm curious to see who the 76ers GM was, but I assume it's an ex-Hoya or an ex-Celtic or something like that.

So Kevin McHale, they get in his ear. He signs him here. They end up not that great, 26-56 that season. Not good at all. That's like the worst team in NBA season that year probably. They were fifth in the Midwest division, so that tells you a lot right there. That's like last place in that division, so ugly. They don't make the playoffs, obviously.

They were 25th of 29 in expected win losses for next year, that year. So 1995-1996 for Minnesota. He plays in eight games, starts zero, 4.9 minutes per game,.08 points per game. Not even one. Not even a point a game. Not even a free throw 0.8 rebound or 0.8 points 0.8 assists 0.6 rebounds 0.1 steals he got six points over eight games so not not terrific yeah that's it's it's not good man so it's it's kind of over for him and that's his nba career

it's over 73 games total he starts zero nba games averages 8.1 minutes a game 2.5 points per game uh with one total rebound 1.6 assists and a half a steal a game and that's his line uh not great his average per game is a half point more than people he's killed that's it yeah pretty pretty good female college students uh january 4th 96 he's waived's it yeah it's pretty pretty good female college students yeah uh january 4th 96 he's waived by the timberwolves so he lasts a month there probably three three 10 days i'm sure something like that uh so he goes back to the florida beach dogs and the florida sharks he plays for the belgrade red star who are who is based in serbia obviously from fucking belgrade sounds like dog food.

Yeah, this is a really weird thing here. They are, is it this team? Oh, no, it's the other team. Never mind, because this is fucking hilarious. But yeah, they're a basketball team here, and also they're part of the Red Star Multi-Sports Club. I don't know. It's the Adriatic Basketball Association,

the ABA in a whole other way, baby. Wow. Yeah, other way, baby. Wow. Yeah, plays there. 97. He plays for Iraklus. That's not an Iraq. That's not a pun. R-I-A-K-L-I-S.

It's a Greek team. A Greek professional basketball team. I wish Iraq had a team when that was the name of it. The Iraklus. That'd be amazing. like the chickless so uh he uh he's this is the basketball section of a multi-sport club gs arachnid uh they uh they won the greek national championship in 28 and 35 and have reached the greek cup final three times uh they've had a bunch of guys that Roy Tarpley played for this team, by the way.

Another one of our boys there, Xavier McDaniel, who will be a future episode. There's a lot of guys played for them. Also, the La Crosse Bobcats he played for. That is not an international anything. It's a CBA team who was located in

La Crosse, Wisconsin from 96 until 2001 when they went bankrupt so that's that uh this is the second cba team to relocate to lacrosse why before that they had the lacrosse cat birds and they didn't do any better they got cheese and beer let's go yeah it's so fucking weird in 97 i just found this interesting the bobcats had a marketing campaign featured commercials depicting lacrosse players uh uh it's so weird they had with like shitty team endorsed products and like a home shopping network parody that was their thing and their the team's tagline was quote lousy endorsements great basketball is it like a fundraiser for a school where your kid comes home with wrapping paper?

It was it was a Home Shopping Network parody of them. That was, you know, buying. It was so awful. Yeah. Whose idea was that? I hope you're fired. But the funny part is they didn't use any actual players since they filmed it in the offseason. So they had to get tall actors to do it.

Jesus Christ. They don't recognize our players anyway, so here's Charles Smith. Here's Charles Smith. Yeah. So that's that for them. 1998, he plays for Orenz. Orenz? Jesus, it's...

French-Canadian? Club Orenz Balancesto. I don't know what the fuck that is. It's in Spain. it's a Spanish league team he plays there he also plays for Vaqueros de Bayamon which is a Puerto Rican team

Puerto Rican basketball team that's the Cowboys Vaqueros yeah that's the Balancesto Super Nacional based Superior I don't know what the fuck they're talking about Balancesto Super Nacional-based. He got super in it? That's what they call it.

Superior. I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Anyway, they're one of the most successful teams in the history of that league. That's the league, the BSN. They won 14 league championships overall. Then also, he goes and plays in Italy for Napoli. He plays there. And yeah, they also folded in Italy for Napoli. He plays there. And, yeah, they also folded in 2009, that team.

So we'll find teams that fold anywhere. He also plays in 99. He plays for Obras Sanitarios, which is an Argentinian team. His guy is racking up some miles, man. He is racking up some fucking miles. Now, apart from basketball, this team has a basketball, a rugby team, chess, field hockey, swimming, tennis, and volleyball all fall under this team's banner. I don't understand.

You're in a sports center in a town somewhere, and you just do whatever. It's like a YMCA team. That's basically it. We got everything. Sign up. What are you good at jesus christ he plays for uh in messina and sicily in 2000 so he goes from argentina to sicily and then back to the lacrosse bobcats in 2001 he just can't stay away uh 2001 he plays uh in

belgium actually in the uh lee jay basket uh for this team, professional team in Belgium here. They played a 5,600-seat arena there. Founded in 1967, so same year as him. So not bad. After 2001, though, that basketball dries up for him. Nobody's calling anymore. He's not the best player in the CBA. He's not even the best player in Belgium.

Once you're not the best player in Belgium anymore, it is time to hang it up. I might be the best player in Belgium right now. You could be right this minute. You never know with very little practice even. So he calls it quits, hangs it up, goes back to Maryland, hangs out. They never go home. Ever fucking go home. He's breaking rules.

It ain't over yet. It ain't over yet. He's got a big one coming here. So this is from about 2001 to 2000, 2002 to 2005, 2006. No fucking clue. He's just floating around Maryland, just dicking off. He doesn't get arrested that I know of or anything, but that's okay. In 2006, he starts being a bartender

at a place called the my place bar in mitchellville maryland which sounds like a depressing he used to be a celtic he used to be a timberwolf a celtic a 76er and a hoya and now he's a my place bartender uh everybody loved him the owner of the bar said that he was, quote, happy and go lucky and popular with patrons. Happy and go lucky. And go lucky. Both of them. So now he's back here. I mean, Jesus Christ, man. First of all, let's start from the beginning.

These fucking girls. That sucks. Yeah. That really sucks. That's horrible. There's no way to not. They did nothing. They literally went out to who the hell knows, get something to eat and come back.

Walking home. Walking home, man. And you can't get any more innocent than that. mean all of his fucking teammates everybody that stuck up for him that's tough i mean his family they thought they had the best success story ever he came from nothing graduated from georgetown he's in the nba this is great even the even the albany the albany sharpshooters and everybody gave him a chance all these bar people i feel bad for all these people jimmy i feel bad but not nearly as bad as the multitude of charles smiths i found oh god i had to pick the funniest so let's get on with it here uh first one dr charles smith a neurologist in la jolla california he doesn't want his name associated with that uh next this is amazing charles smith a georgetown student oh god

a few years ago a georgetown an 18 year old georgetown town student who was arrested when the police raided his dorm room to find a drug lab in there oh my god a cooler with dry ice a canister of carbon dioxide ammonia lighter fluid and a turkey baster. They found all this shit. They charged him with conspiracy to manufacture and possess DMT with the intent to distribute- The date rape drug. No, DMT. What is that? You're thinking of GHB. DMT is like the- Joe Rogan talks about it all the time.

Oh, okay. It's like when your brain dies, it's the shit that it releases to make you feel okay. To make you okay. So if you take that when you're not dying, terrific, I'm sure. Never had it, but it sounds wonderful. So I don't know. I don't want to be that fucked up probably.

I made him out to be a much worse person making rape drugs. No, no, no. This is just hallucinogen. He wants to trip with his friends. He's released to the custody of their father and will have to wear ankle bracelets while the whole thing proceeds he's a distinguished uh scholar and he's a member of the national honor society this kid also charles smith a retiree who volunteers as santa claus who faces drug charges after police

found a crack pipe and some heroin on him. So our knowledge has not killed anybody. 66 year old man, white beard, looks just like Santa Claus in full Santa Claus gear, gets arrested for having a crack pipe and then a search of his vehicle turned up more drug paraphernalia including empty bags of crack and full bags of heroin found next to a hypodermic needle. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho, ho. Here's some hepatitis.

That could very easily be Ben Puddle's dad. Holy shit. Most of all, though, Charles Smith, the ex-NBA player who you thought we were talking about, and so does everyone else when they read this. I feel bad for him, not only because he can't hit a fucking layup like his legs are broken in the playoffs, but also because what has this Charles Smith been doing? The other Charles

Smith? Let's see. In 2009, he, after more than a decade as an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and motivational speaker, he became executive director of National Basketball Retired Players Association, where he takes on his greatest challenge, the welfare of former players. Did he really?

Started a broad initiative called TAP, Transition Assistance Program, to offer personal and financial counseling to former players, along with a network of professionals to help them define a second career. Unbelievable. The players are lectured on topics, all sorts of topics, like his money and everything like that. Yes, he says, the other Charles Smith says, in professional sports, it's a dropkick and punt and you're out. He says, so he's trying to help people and doing great things. Meanwhile, what's our Charles Smith up to during this same time? Well, October 21st, 2010, at his house in the 13,200 block of Lansdale's Hope Way in the Fairwood town of Fairwood, which is west of Bowie, Maryland. Neighbors hear gunshots ring out at the home around 1230 a.m. They call police and the police find a man wounded in the chest with multiple gunshot wounds on his porch.

That's Charles Smith. Oh, no. Shot the fuck wounded in the chest with multiple gunshot wounds on his porch. That's Charles Smith. Oh, no. Shot the fuck up in the chest. He's taken to the hospital, listed in critical but stable condition, multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. The police say they do not believe the shooting's a random act at all and are trying to determine if the victor knew the shooter at the time. This is the night it happens. They release a description of the suspect. Black male, 5'5", black hair, wearing desk clothing.

I don't know what that is. And a red cap. I don't know. And possibly driving a brown SUV. At this point, they talk to his friends. Friends from the bar there at the My Place Sports Bar and Grill. One guy says quote he was a good he's not dead by the way he was a good man they have their they got the ball they're

eulogizing him already quote he was a good man he loved his family his wife and kids uh this is so tragic he's not dead by the way uh he's not dead. He might fucking wish he was, though. Really? Because the next day, some more shit comes out about this. This wasn't just, oh, I'm an innocent man in my house. It turns out he was shot. The police find out he was shot because of alleged gambling and drug deaths. Oh, Jesus. And also, he is now charged with drug crimes because the police returned to the scene to execute a follow-up search warrant for everything, make sure they got all the slugs and everything like that, and

they recover a large quantity of cocaine and evidence of a full-blown gambling operation that he's got going. So he's selling cocaine and bookmaking now. My Christ. That's what he's doing with himself. Not terrific. He's originally charged with one count of possession of controlled substance with intent to distribute, one count of possession of controlled substance with intent to distribute,

one count of possession of a dangerous substance, which is not marijuana, and one count of possession of drug paraphernalia. He's indicted by a grand jury after that of two additional counts, one of a count of possession of a controlled substance, and one count of manufacturing, distribution, and possession with the intent to distribute. Oh, that's not good. Which is not a good one there. They said the police said they found a, quote, large amount of cocaine in the house.

Apparently, Smith was answering his phone for a minute from the press, and then he decided he stopped answering the phone. No more of this. He got out of jail from this because he was in the hospital and then he went home uh smith's attorney there's a different guy now a guy named jimmy bell he said uh he said my client was a victim of an attempted home invasion the police jumped to some conclusions not based on evidence but based on sloppy police work he said without question charles is innocent of the charges brought against him lots of cocaine

right now the problem here is the police say that they believe the shooting was a result of a gambling dispute where he owed a better money somebody fucking won and he didn't pay off so they came and shot his ass which will happen when you owe people money uh they said the investigation was ongoing they found no shoot he never told who shot him even though he knows who shot him he's probably got his name written down in a little fucking book. Find that guy later. No problem. Yeah, he doesn't say anything about that. Plus, who knows if the guy's a gangster or what.

The police said they wouldn't specify exactly how much cocaine was recovered from the home, just that it was, quote, a considerable amount. Not personal use here. At the time of the shooting, police said the gambling operation was also a big deal.

They said they had no idea how much cocaine was taken. Smith's lawyer says they have no idea how much cocaine was taken because the government would not provide him with the evidence. They had a conference here. The trial was scheduled for March, but something happened and he ended up making

a deal on this. And I'm not sure exactly what the trial was scheduled for march but something happened and he ended up making a deal on this and i'm not sure exactly what the deal was it wasn't a big public affair because he's a fucking bartender in maryland now he's not really that big of a deal anymore so uh all i know is he made some kind of deal and i don't think he ended up back in prison i think he got some kind of you know yeah but you did get shot in the chest three times type of thing here. So that's who knows what the fuck he's doing. He's out there. Place a bet. Grab some wines. I don't know.

Watch out in the crosswalks. Charles Smith is out there. You're about to feel the wrath of a menace. About to feel the wrath of a menace. You did not finish the job, sir. You didn't feel the job. That's the thing, man. That is crazy.

That's crazy time. And it's fucked up because he's perfect citizen yeah does one stupid thing everything's fine and then he's like fuck it i'll sell coke and get the gambling thing i could see too because that could start out casual taking bets and whatever but as a as a bartender it's easy just to say and it's so easy to sell coke as a bartender every bartender i've ever known so it sells something you got the fucking game on right behind yeah man 50 bucks does he miss this free i could see that happening so i i can't even though i i'm so mad at him for killing those fucking girls and driving away he's a hard guy to hate though because it's just he's not he made a

bad decision he's somewhere between idiot and asshole he's not quite either way sprinkle a bow yeah it's what i mean it's a little little column a little column b he's not like buck zoom hoff where you're like i want this guy's fucking ball skewered and and shown to him like it's not a different thing well can't get enough of him uh i don't know how you couldn't it's all cheap it's all cheap uh first of all the georgetown top 100 players of all time he is number 12 on their list that right 12 of their best alton i could name fucking 10 of them that are great right off the top. That's pretty impressive. That's impressive. It really is. Also, you can

get a Charles Smith basketball card. This is a 1991 Collegiate Collection card of him in his Georgetown uniform. $3 plus $2.99 shipping. Not too shabby. Only nine left in stock. So order right now because they're going like hotcakes as you can imagine. is on the planet all there is there and that's all there is

for charles smith there's no jerseys or anything like that nobody has like a timber wolves jersey he wore for a month or a basketball card or anything like that he's just gone and and dismissed forever my christ and that's charles smith what a story good work up story thank you that was a fucking weird one, wasn't it? That was a... Ridiculous. I've been looking at him for a while, and I didn't want to do the story because I didn't want to differentiate between Charles Smiths. Yeah.

Literally, I was like, if I look up this Charles Smith, I'm going to find 400,000 other fucking Charles Smiths. And this time, I was like, you know what? I'm just doing it. Fuck it. We're getting Charles Smith. I was going to say, maybe five episodes ago, we're going to do Charles Smith. And I was like, he's an asshole. I had no idea. No, he's fine. Nick's Charles Smith. You did say maybe five episodes ago, we're going to do Charles Smith. And I was like, he's an asshole.

I had no idea. Yeah, no, he's fine. Nick's Charles Smith. He's great. Good guy. No problem. Fuck, he cares about- Helping people.

Yeah. Good guy. Gives a shit. From all accounts of a decent human being who has made the most of his life and has killed no college girls, no co-eds, our Charles Smith, a little bit different. Jesus. If you like that story, there is a way to tell us about that. There's multiple ways.

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