Crime in Sports - #188 - Killing In The Name Of... - The Senselessness of Mark "Gator" Rogowski

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

This week, we circle back, and take a fresh look at a man who we covered in our 10th episode, with an all new episode! He was a beloved, and famous icon of skateboarding, in the 1980's, until things started to go downhill, both personally & professionally. His dark path continued until it culminated in one of the most heinous, horrid things that we've ever talked about. He's a truly awful person, and we have so much information that we didn't have time for, way back in 2016!! Be an innovator in your sport, let it all go to your head, and murder someone who you're not even mad at with Mark "Gator" Rogowski!! Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!! Contact us on... twitter.com/[e-mail]/Crimeinsportsinstagram.com/smalltownmurder#  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It's streaming. You can say anything. It's an all-new season. Judy Justice. Only on Freebie. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo.

I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us once again on another wild, crazy, insane edition of Crime and Sports and we have it all for you today. Hell yeah. A wild one. This is a revisit.

We did this case way back in our 10th episode. Oh. And it was one of those cases where there was more to it but we were trying to do it in an hour yeah we were trying to cram it in in an hour and i i never this is the one this is 188th episode this is the one episode we did where i'm like i don't like how i feel like we left stuff out i feel like it wasn't complete and i feel like there was just stuff there that we didn't go over that we should have gone over and we just did it for for brevity's sake and uh so today we're gonna we're gonna expand on it and make it right great so this is good we're gonna we're gonna write our one wrong what i feel like it is which is good we'll do that

before we get to that i just want to thank everybody for everything you've done for us this week of course especially anyone who has left us a review on that purple icon thank you apple podcasts whatever it is if if you can do that it helps us a ton on that purple icon. You guys are the best. Thank you. Apple Podcasts, whatever it is. If you can do that, it helps us a ton. Give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. You can say you're following instructions. These guys are forcing me to do this.

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literally a producer who we're going to gush about at the end of the show. We're going to say such nice things about them. We're going to say terrible things about people for two hours and then say the nicest things in the world about a list of people. If you'd like to join that list, you can do it very, very easily over at Patreon dot com slash crime and sports or head over to PayPal and use our email address, which is crime

and sports at Gmail dot com. And that's amazing every dime is appreciated beyond belief and you can get to both of those links right from where jimmy shut up and give me murder.com goddamn straight so with that said uh quickly before we get into the case i just want to go over one thing very quickly because i'll forget later on the josh gordon thing oh jesus now j, Josh Gordon is a wide receiver in the NFL. He's so good. Sort of.

Sometimes he is. Oh, no, good. He's really good. I meant he's sort of and sometimes in the NFL. He's always good. So good. He's fast. He's a great receiver.

He's a dangerous weapon to have on the field. Problem is, he gets suspended every year for weed. It's nothing else. It's never steroids. It's never for, you know, Greg Hardy slammed his girlfriend's head in a fucking toilet seat repeatedly. But they let him back in the league. But apparently Josh Gordon's weed smoking is so offensive to anybody around him that he can't possibly be in the NFL. This is the most ridiculous thing ever.

Indefinitely suspended. ever indefinitely suspended indefinitely suspended that is crazy or weed who does he play for jimmy seattle uh where's seattle that is in washington yes thank you as in washington state what is legal in washington state um oh for sure marijuana definitely weed this is fucking ridiculous we're to the point now we're past the tipping point, NFL. You know what? Fuck you, NFL. I'm so sick of the fucking NFL. I love football.

That's the thing. It's the greatest sport on earth. It's a game. It's a great game. It has everything, especially for television. It's built for drama. The fucking field is the shape of a fucking television. It's perfect.

It doesn't get better than that for television. You have ruined it. You've taken a beautiful thing and skull fucked it to the point where it doesn't even remember its own name that's what you've done nfl you're pathetic you're fucking i'm sorry mlb just made a policy to stop testing for weed right because it's ridiculous dumb why can everyone else do it and not them it's not performance enhancing and it's not what's so stupid what's the sentence that's never been said about a receiver who had a lights out game? If that guy wasn't so stoned, he wouldn't have done so goddamn great today. It's never been said.

It's only because he was so stoned is why he beat our cornerback repeatedly to the end zone. Never been said. Leave these people alone. Leave these guys alone. MLB. NBA doesn't test for weed because, let's face it, that league runs on weed. Talk to NBA players. They go, it's like 90% of the guys smoke weed.

It's a bunch of young black dudes. They smoke weed. You know what I'm saying? It's just culturally, that's what it is. And they're all like a lot of Americans, too. And even the Europeans that smoke weed that come over are kind of like, I don't know, they're a different breed of Europeans. They're a different type of style.

A little more fun. They're more of the weed smoking type. It's just a different thing. Fucking baseball doesn't test for it. Hockey doesn't test for shit. Nothing. Because they're, I don't know why,

whatever, but it's just football. Enough. Stop it, NFL. You're taking a product that is perfect and fucking it up. It's so much fun to watch.

Not anymore. And you're ruining it. Not anymore. to watch yes not anymore ruining it anymore with rules you're ruining it with with with this shit i'm tired of the i'm tired of the rules are crazy i'm tired of the faux like over patriotism and the whole i'm tired of it i'm saying patriotism bad but they make it like it's their brand and it's like okay you know what but you charge your patriots to be patriots the The NFL doesn't own America. The flag isn't their brand. That's what I'm saying, and it's just annoying.

I'm just tired of it. I'm tired of their whole bullshit. It's obnoxious. It's a holier-than-thou thing. It is. And when you're hypocritical, it takes away your fucking meaning. We'll put it this way. They're a league that gives a shit what the president says,

and I don't mean this current president. I'm talking any president. The NBA, any president says anything they don't like they go go fuck yourself we don't care you're not our audience eat dicks whereas the nfl takes shit seriously from like authority figures i don't even mean a president just anybody they're disappointed they're an authoritarian league so that said moving on we've spent three minutes on that but right yeah josh gordon sorry josh sorry about that but let's get to the case today let's get to our asshole of the week right and like i said it's a revisit from 2016 my christ way back that was forever ago our first 10 weeks holy tits have we

done this that long yes and this was the episode that made me want to quit the show i almost quit quit the show because a this was no it's 10 uh basically i i didn't like the way we covered it and i thought we could have done better and b this was like our lowest downloaded show we had a few weeks where it was okay and then this one was like nobody nobody cared like one day we had literally eight downloads for i thought it was 18 it was eight and i just was like why are we doing this jimmy what the fuck are we doing why why are we doing this can we stop jimmy and i'm like no and the next week we did james this gets me out of my house yeah the next week we did ryan leaf and people started getting a little more involved and then it kind of took off from there i think so but this was this broke my heart so

let's get into it this time and up on a higher note outstanding it's better uh let's mark ragowski gator gator gator ragowski. Mark Anthony Rogowski is his full name. Born August 10th, 1966. Now, Gator's born in Brooklyn. Okay. He's born in Brooklyn, but he moves. It's funny, because they moved to San Diego when he was three. His parents get a divorce, apparently kind of an ugly divorce.

He moves with his mom and his older brother to San Diego when he's three. And this could have been such a different story if he would have stayed in Brooklyn. Just everything with an accent would have been hilarious. Just, you know, he might not have skated and this might not even have been a story. But fuck, it would have been hilarious. Because just all this with a heavy New York accent. So anything he says, any quotes we have, imagine it in place of like, hey, bro, California. Just imagine it was him going, I don't know.

Let me tell you something. That's the way he said. Just imagine that. And it's a much funnier story. He moved to San Diego in 69. In 69. Yeah. So he moved to California in the late 60s.

California in 69? Glorious. Beautiful. Beautiful. Cheap still. Yeah. California was still cheap. People moved out there because they were like, ah, cheap rent bad cheap rent right like literally that was a reason for moving there so awesome

sunshine yeah hippies san diego weather san diego weather in the 60s well people just glowing in the sun loving their lives no traffic oh probably not smiling cruising along 5 p.m on a wednesday just cruising hey how you doing waving to people an hour up pch waving to other people on the freeway because you see the same people every day hi ted how you doing bill and they just keep fucking driving the kids oh my wife's got dinner on the table need to go now i know it's 69 or 59 but that's that's how i picture it though hell yeah or basically the brady bunch that was la but that was you know california in the early 70s is the brady bunch so awesome yeah so lucky that's what yeah that sounds great this is better than growing up in fucking poughkeepsie new york i'll tell you

that much beats the shit out of wappingers falls new york grew up in southern california in the 60s that sounds not bad well the 70s I have a cousin who moved my cousin he moved he's older than me and he moved in the 70s first he moved his mom to Buffalo Jesus I'm like is terrible and then in like 1979 they moved from Buffalo to LA oh

like that must have been fish out of water oh that must have been just like what what is this I don't there's this yellow beam coming from the sky i don't know what oh the sun the sun that whoa how does this place exist there's warmth i feel warmth coming from the sky i don't know what this is i've lived in buffalo how does this place exist on the same plane as that plane oh my god why aren't they all here and then like the next year the lakers got good like he good. He took a nice teenage childhood.

He had fun in California. Could have been Buffalo. Could have just been sad. Nope. But that's what this guy did. He escaped. So good. He escaped it.

So yeah, they move. It's in San Diego County. Escondido is where they move. It's beautiful. Yeah, very. Short corduroy white shorts. That's what I see everywhere. I'm seeing white people in strip malls.

And like, yeah, this is some. Tall socks with the yellow and blue around the top valley girl type people things like that you know that sort of thing now gator gets into skateboarding because that's what he does in case you're new to this episode he's a professional skateboarder we've talked about christian asoi right a couple months ago he'll come up in this also of course i remember christian asoi's actually plays a pivotal part in this whole story taking place. Yeah. Through a very casual thing that happened, Christian Assoy set some dominoes in motion that bring us to now.

Christian Assoy passed off some of his shit luck. Well, he did. Well, I think maybe it's the other way around. How? Because Gator had the shit luck first. Okay. Gator's a worse person than christian is so by far yeah christian is like a nice man who got caught up in his own bullshit i feel like that's what it feels

yeah that's the general sense i don't know him obviously but gator i feel like is an asshole who got caught being an asshole when we did the hassoi uh episode a guy from i don't want to say where he's at he does radio somewhere in this country he messaged me and said that christian asoi banged his mother at one point that does not surprise me that you have these guys were laying yeah cock around the country like you have no idea they showed up and it was they were rock stars they would show up and there'd be tons of girls groupie girls from 15 to 40 just wanting a piece of these guys so they'd show up they were going to skate anyway it's a hobby it's not like you know they didn't start like well this is a profession i'm going to go to school for electronics like it's what they were doing anyway

and then they're going to get paid and have every girl on earth want to bang them this is a rocket of course crazy yeah who the hell wouldn't want to do this this is great i mean there's another path why isn't everybody doing this seems wonderful just get in the pool what's wrong with you fucking people so he starts skating at age seven so that we're talking a high very early adopter to skateboarding and uh taking it seriously seven we're talking 1973 right this is way early in the skateboarding world here this is you know we've talked about even the first episode this is the equipment's different the wheels are weird yeah this is not they didn't commercially they didn't catch up to the demands of what some of these kids were doing right and shit like that it's an interesting time in america too because the like the muscle car trend is kind of starting

to taper off it's going to die off in about two years when the gas crisis right that's gonna and it turns into 75 the ugliest cars on earth yeah and so from that it turned into like bmx riding yeah and and skateboarding avocado refrigerators and fucking yellow countertops and i mean we're talking an ugly time in history here this is bleak nice brand new brown torino you got there wow that's pretty sweet i dig your i dig your uh pickup truck slash car in your El Camino. That's a fascinating vehicle. Do me a favor. Park it next to my AMC Pacer because I want to see the difference in length.

And my very short wheelbase van. This is weird. This is a strange vehicle to own. Why do I have this? Because the A-team has one and I've got to have one too. Because I need to throw children in the back. To lure them in with candy and then steal them.

That's why. Such a weird time. So, yeah, he gets into it at seven. So that's highly early. And his older brother influences him a lot, as we'll get into here, because he says that and we'll do a quote here. You know what? Let's start off right off the top.

Let's do it in their own words, because it's him kind of feeling sorry for himself a little bit. Already? Just a little bit. And, you know, he's also giving credit to his brother. And so we'll do that. Let's do an in their own words here. In their own words, quote, I grew up without a father from day one. And my brother kind of filled that gap.

He was a bitch and influence on me. He made me a good baseball player and an athlete in general. What was cool was that he was stoked I was skating too. Skating was somewhat deviant. Wow. There you go.

What a thing to say. He was a bitch and influence on me. You know, you want to just use bitching and have it be this and not have people

be like, did he just say he was bitching? In the same quote. Just stoked and bitching, bro. It's, you know, now.

What a Southern California thing to say. Brooklynized that. I grew up without my father from day one. You understand? You know, same quote just stoked and bitching bro it's you know now what a southern california thing brooklynized that yeah i grew up without my father from day one you understand you know my brother he kind of filled the gap in like that he was a bitching influence on me let me tell you something he made me a good baseball player and an athlete in general what was cool was he was stoked that i was skating too you know skating was somewhat deviant he was stoked about it though he feels so weird he's pretty bitching i'm just gonna tell you right now he's a bitching guy it's funny right it's way different isn't it it hurts viscerally it's internally that stings so hard

a new york guy saying tubular hey fucking hilarious fucking tubular it's pretty radical you know what I'm saying? It's a bitching kind of thing, and I'm stoked about it. That's all I'm telling you right now. I got nothing else to say. Hell yeah. I'm stoked. They talked to one woman here, a woman named Evelyn Madison.

She knew her husband was his Little League coach, was Gator's Little League coach here. She says about Gator, quote, he was just an ordinary kid, full of laughter, good looking, was his little league coach yeah was gator's little league coach here okay yeah she said he she says about gator quote he was just an ordinary kid full of laughter good looking athletic no one would ever dream of the direction his life would take uh and then their their son who played on the team said quote he was cool i know i knew he smoked some pot when he was at the beach but he never got so strung out on heavy duty stuff he stuff. He hadn't become a Jesus freak yet, nor had he become famous. He was well-known as a skateboarder and a surfer.

I went surfing with him many times. So he was, even as a child, he was known in the area as like, that's that kid who's really good at surfing and skating. Everybody knew who he was. And he can get you a little weed. Yeah, he's going to smoke some weed. He's also behind the ramp smoking.

See that cloud coming. So that's that kid who's really good at it. Yeah. Smoking weed and skating. Both. Him and Christian are both smoking at young ages. Yeah, that's well, it's California in the 70s. And the 70s were a different time.

70s were very much a time when a lot of parents, and especially this was kind of, I mean, it's a stereotype, but it happened a lot. Like if you hear Adam Carolla's story when he always talks about his youth, this is kind of how his mother raised him. Kind of free range. It was cool. It was just kind of like, you know, you let the kids do their own thing, man. You know, you got to let them do this. You can't like come down on them.

And then it's going to be a hassle. And they're going to be, you know, don't be the man. That's so don't be the man to your own kid. It was like a latchkey. That's entirely different from Arizona. Yeah. Trash. Oh, yeah. That's just like, well, good luck man to your own kid. That's SoCal latchkey. That's entirely different from Arizona white trash latchkey. Oh, yeah, that's just like, well, good luck. Hope you get home tonight. Hey, watch out.

They'll kidnap you and sell you in Mexico now, and they slam the trailer door behind you. That's a different story. It was, don't worry, they'll bring you back in 10 minutes if they take you. It was that kind of thing, because you're worthless and a piece of shit. Show them you ain't got all your fangirls. They ain't going to want you. That's how you're going to be worthless. They're going to bring you right back. Get a piece of shit. Show them you ain't got all your fingers. They ain't going to want you. That's how you're going to be worthless.

They're going to bring you right back. Get a discount, child. Yeah, whereas these people were like these hippies who, you know, it was kind of the mid-70s. The hippie thing had kind of gone past, but they still had the mentality of that, and they took their hippie values and put them on their kids because they were now putting this into practice of don't be a hassle on your kids. Don't be like your parents who are, you know to be a drag bro teaching you all the institutions

let them run free if they choose to go to school every day and do well then that's their that's their road how bummed out you were you want to be bummed out too come on man if they want to go out and smoke weed on the beach when they're nine and skate skateboard then you just let them do it that was kind of the attitude everybody had not everybody but kind of a lot of the beach kids had that was where they came from that's why they were allowed to do that shit so uh yeah he says he said he was skating by like by the time he was 10 he was really really skating hard uh he said he didn't have a lot of friends though um which is weird i would think he would have a lot of older friends that's the thing i

guess maybe he didn't have peer peers but he had like friends probably yeah and well if you're associates if you're skating better than all the kids your age and you're skating with kids that are older than you they're not you're not their buddy you're like oh they're like oh that's that kid who's good but then they're gonna go hang out with that kid they're not gonna go hey we're having a party later come over 10 year old they look weird yeah and whereas you're not even with the other 10 year olds so your interests aren't there. So I could see being a social outcast there. He says, quote, I was a social outcast back then.

He says, my fellow skater friends were all hyped on the surf thing. Who had what board, the newest OPs, Ocean Pacific, I assume, and who had a Hang Ten shirt. Then there I was running around in tough skins you know they were all wrapped up in the fashion and those types of superficial interests they ended up fading out and i fucking lasted so that's he he has a very he's also other kids around him have more money than him and he's very aware of that because he doesn't have a fucking job well no no their families have more money than him like got it yeah kids at school and shit have more money than him and kids he's hanging out with have more money than him because there's you know san diego southern california there's areas with a

lot of money a lot of times you're so cal established the family's got dough man that's what i mean so he said a lot of these kids had more money than him and he felt like he didn't so he he really felt inadequate in terms of the only thing he could do was skate and surf better than all of them that was the thing that he had i'll perform them basically yeah yeah yeah my shoes may suck but you can't do what i do with them so fuck you basically he uh there was a skate park locally and he found that's when he really got into skating like this is when he found his niche and his groove he found a skate park to go to every day with a bunch of other people who were taking it seriously and uh this is like a comic

finding a little club that he can perform at all the time and there's some other comics he gets along with and they allow it and they allow it yeah they're like no no do 20 but i only have like 15 but you know what you're gonna stretch it to 20 tonight motherfucker get up there and do it and do some do some crowd work if you have to and that gets you better that's what i mean that's that's kind of what what uh i think happened here is what it was so he says quote these guys were so into it having such a good time sweating and laughing and creating and cracking jokes and just snaking each other okay whatever that is it was just snaking each other you know what I mean stick it right up his ass smack each other

in the dick I don't know what that is hey take your dick there you go smack your dick just snake out of here hit your snake and he says

when they went into the bowl their expressions changed into a going into battle expression going for it no holds barred when they popped out of the bowl

they'd get a smile on their faces and a yelp and chime it was hot so yeah he's talking about just everybody wow some california to modern day dictionary just everybody was having fun when they'd swim in the pool that's what he's saying they'd swim in pools and everybody went for it

and didn't care about getting hurt and shit like that and then they would they they were excited when they were done skating pools they were skating pools did i say swimming pool swimming pool well yeah they were going to swimming pool got it yeah yeah they weren't like swimming in the holes these are in swimming pools right minus water yeah yeah it's hard to skate in the pool with water it is tough it doesn't work as well no it's just very slow a lot safer though makes it a lot easier to do those flips and shit way safer yeah way safer you'll never hurt yourself so he says uh tony hawk talks about this time too because he was around this is kind of tony hawk knew him from a young age and this is kind of like the hassoi thing they keep going

back to tony hawk and asking him questions because he's the only skater that people now still know who he is that was around back then sort of thing how weird is that i mean skaters know who he is if you skate then you know if you skated you knew but not like mainstream people if you say professional skateboarder they go tony hawk they go number two yeah fucking don't know don't know that redheaded guy he's a snowboarder shit i don't know then should say and that's being honest yeah honestly go that guy that's had a show on mtv for 20 years where people do dumb shit he just made shoes that? No, he just made shoes. That's it. Oh, fuck. Okay. Rob Durning. Yeah, that's the guy. Shit. All right, never mind.

Tony Hawk. Did I mention him? Tony Hawk Jr. It's Tony. Does he have a son? Tony Hawk Jr. Is his daughter skating? Is there a Tonya Hawk?

Can he play the Tad Hawk, his son? It's my son, Tad Hawk. I don't know, man. Jesus. Yeah, he's the guy who's still around. It's amazing. Yeah, he's the, I guess he's like the Babe Ruth, just so people that don't know who he is, he's the Hulk Hogan of fucking.

It's very strange that that market didn't create a number two. And it's only because the soy fucking went to prison for it. He could have. There could have been a number two. There could have been a number two. There could have been Hawk and a soy forever. Yeah, and he kind of, yeah, the market kind of collapsed on it just as it was getting big. Right when it was exploding.

And Tony Hawk is like one of the only ones who came out the other side intact. Yeah. Everybody else kind of, a new generation emerged. Well, he also is very marketable and sellable to middle America. Do you know what I mean? He's so wholesome. He's very clean cut. Yeah.

He doesn't seem. He doesn't seem to swear. He's not giving the finger to the camera like Mark Rogowski is. We'll talk about Gator turns into like, He's so wholesome. He's very clean cut. Yeah, he doesn't seem, he doesn't seem to swear. He's not giving the finger to the camera like Mark Rogowski as we'll talk about. Gator turns into like, he's the punk rock

kind of everything, every picture of him he's like giving the finger to the camera. He's like, fuck you. All his quotes are like, I love getting arrested, bro.

Like shit like that. Yeah, seriously. He has quotes where he says, I love getting arrested, which is okay. Crime and sports. Thamps. You are our kind of guy, I guess. Whereas hawk would be like oh well no i mean the cops would once in a while they'd they'd ask me not to

not to skate in a particular location and i'd of course obliged and then you know you guys are right this is uh very unsafe and i am trespassing i should leave take it to an authorized location thank you gentlemen for alerting me to this actually because i don't want to be of any like that's how they picture tony where's gator'd be like gator'd be like fuck you i just pissed over there yeah yeah eat my dick copper and he'd like skate off into the street catch me pussies yeah it's like a different kind of guy completely so if you're a skater and a punk ass kid you like that yeah you know like that was what the skateboarding was just a fucking it was a middle finger in general to society because you're grinding on public facilities yeah you're doing tricks and stuff

that damage public things when i was 12 i thought tony hawk was lame yeah i skated i thought he was fucking lame and boring and by at the time he was a huge guy just thought he was fucking boring i was like he's lame man like i liked you wanted a guy who was like a little dangerous yeah you know you didn't want tony hawk he's boring so he's amazing and technically great and all that sort of shit but as a kid he just wasn't fun no you know so he says tony hawk says about this time quote this was a great time for us we were making a ton of money we flew all over the world there were skating groupies at every stop. It was pretty cool to see a bunch of guys from San Diego County County at the center of this huge thing.

No doubt we were stoked. Yeah, everybody's stoked. By the way, the the documentary on Gator that, you know, I mean, there's a ton of information from everywhere, but some of it comes from that is called Stoked. The Rise and Fall of Gator from 2003. So you can check that out here. We're talking he wore a beret. We talked about last time in Gator. He's wearing a fucking beret, bro.

That's silly. With pins on it and shit. And later on, he'll have four swatches up his arm. Swatch watches. He's the rock star douchebag of the crew here later on. Did he have bandanas tied around his thighs, too? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Total like he's an 80s tag team wrestler. He's in the Rock and Roll Express or something. All his pieces of flair. Oh, yeah, he's got tons of flair. Gator had so much flair. He did. He really did. Like, if he crashed and fell, like, shit would have came off of him in every direction.

Like a pinata. Yeah, it would look like, literally literally like mini snickers shooting off of them every pins buttons things watches fucking suspenders popping off everything now in in 1980 there was the uh uh it's a vans amateur skate uh uh state finals for california in the 11 to 13 year old division this was before he turned 14 in 1980 and he's in the top five and that he comes in 1982 he's first place in the canadian amateur skateboarding championships in vancouver which was kind of a big deal and made him a that gave him a name kid can't even drive a car legally with a permit and he's flying to canada and winning he's kicking ass yeah as a teenager i

mean he's making big money 1984 first place uh and it's a national championship thing at uh del mar in 1984 big deal this is when he starts you know he is 18 years old and he starts making money uh this is when he visioned streetwear yeah he starts skating for them uh he also he gets endorsement deals gullwing trucks for one of his endorsements which they still fucking make gullwings get awesome yeah i bought a pair that's right you did yeah i have i after the christian assoy episode uh full disclosure here i started i got back into skateboarding and i haven't broken anything yet which is great but i was like i have health

insurance now i can fucking do this so my daughter wanted a skateboard so i got her one and i was like oh i want all these old boards now they have reissues of the old ones right with the new like the new new spin on it with the new shape with a good shape oh yeah yeah like the caballero board i got the old caballero with the dragon on it it's fucking cool as shit i got yeah so anyway uh these boards were a big deal and i got a gullwing trucks is what i'm saying i found a pair of gullwing trucks with slime balls yeah saying. I found a pair of gullwing with slime balls. Yeah. With slime balls.

Uh, yeah, I got some of those and I got new ones too, but I got like that, like a classic board where I'm like, sweet. I'm going to put some gullwings on it, some slime balls.

So, uh, he's, he's getting a shitload of money here. He's starting to make, you know, five grand a month on just truck endorsements and stuff like that. It's just he's all over the place.

Even like Vision made boards. Vision made shoes. We talked about it the first time. They look like Converse All-Stars with an ollie pad. And then they had different ones. But Vision Streetwear, they looked at Gator and they wanted him to be their guy because they were trying to be rebellious and shit. And they looked at him like he dressed like a lunatic. And he has got a beret on.

Half the time he doesn't have a shirt. Other times he's got shit tied around him, flare all over the place. So they said they wanted to make him his own line so he would look the same all the time, basically. A uniform. Continuity of style is the way they put it. We want him to have a certain look that people can then emulate. Right now they can't emulate what he's doing also not having a fucking shirt on is costing you money every month because if you put a shirt on the design on it fucking shirt they'll

fucking buy the shirt you stupid shit asshole it's like where i just like the sun on my back it makes me stoked how much do you like houses it's just like pretty stoked about the sun on my back you know what i'm saying you're gonna have the sun on your back the rest of your life because you're not gonna own a house yeah but it's pretty bitching though just to have the sun on your back you want to be stoked get some air conditioning um i'm just gonna keep the shirt off for now bro but the beret is cool i'm gonna rock that that's fine nobody's gonna buy a beret you know what everybody wants t-shirts hey brother it's pretty bitching this beret i got man i just dig it you know it's i'm stoked about it driving his marketing manager fucking mad they're

like jeez he won't put a fucking shirt on i told him i told him he could fucking sell him he won't fucking buy him i've told prince can't even sell beret he says it's fucking bitching or i don't know what the hell he's talking about what a bitch bitching he says it's bitching that's what right bitch yeah bitch bitch i don't fucking know he's stoked what do you want from me prince has a number one album with berets he can't sell a fucking one jesus christ put a shirt on uh a guy named perry gladstone who owns skateboarding companies in the future here he says quote gator gator gator uh every issue of thrasher which is the big skating magazine, had Gator doing something. He was always a part of everything.

There were Gator stories, Gator spreads, full-page Gator ads. He was a hero to us. We'd read about their parties, the girls. You've got to understand, top skaters were like rock stars traveling all over the world, living the life. And Gator was the wildest of them all. That's absolutely true. Yeah, these guys were flying all over the world just to do an autograph session. So great. world living the life and gator was the wildest of them all yeah that's absolutely true yeah these guys were flying all over the world just to do an autograph session so great big fat check fly back

home oh fat check you know hang out with whatever groupies they could find around do some drugs and then fly home that's their job how the fuck did he get gator as a nickname there was a it's a something from a cartoon and also i believe uh something to do with the gator on the uh shirt got it yeah there's a different than a tie-in it happened as a child okay uh nobody called him that but it kind of stuck later on understood so he said uh yeah he said that he loved being like this too gator he loved it there's an interview in thrasher where he talks about he likes uh he he talks about how there's a picture of him and he says on the left side of the picture there's a bum with a bottle

or a junkie with a needle hanging out of his arm and on the other side there's a skater skating it out trying to climb up basically do wall climb uh wall rides uh sweating it out and cussing at the wall and bam fucking forging reality pushing his body up the wall. I don't know. He said it's a real productive way of venting some harsh aggressions. Instead of breaking a bottle and slashing somebody's face, you're throwing yourself at a wall with sweat dripping in your eyes. With a couple of junkies. Okay.

So those are the only two options. That's your audience? Yeah. I used to skate. I wasn't skating to not slash somebody's face. That's the i was just okay it was pretty fun i didn't do it i do it now i'm not like i really want to slash a guy's face either this or that fuck it i guess i'll go outside and skate i guess it's a vast reality difference it's a big difference uh his board becomes such a hot property at one point there's an article from 1986 and this is like the precursor

to the remember in 89 all the articles about people stealing jordans yeah and that was a big deal this they have articles about how people are stealing gator skateboards awesome it's like a big deal there's a there's one from uh from pennsylvania this is a lancaster township here from 1986 and the the headline of the article is teens take skateboard worth 150 dollars that's just one then yeah well that's everything trucks and wheels and all that shit and uh they talk about how this kid was a peter stein he was 15 he's a paper boy and he's delivering newspapers and he stopped and he's put it he left his board out on the curb to go put a paper up and as he's walking back, a car pulled up

and somebody opened up the back door and snatched his skateboard off the curb. Bastards. Yeah, it's a Vision Gator, his mom said, and they're very upset about it. I'm sure they are. Yeah. Now, Gator here, Jesus Christ, man.

He kind of lives up to his reputation a lot, too. There's a ton of little arrests that we have no lot too he's he there's so there's a ton of like little arrests that we have no way of finding because he spends nights in jail in towns he's in and then blows town and who knows what just one arrest over disorderly conducts and crazy shit like that because he really well let's tell the story first it's an event called mount trash more okay which it's that sounds skatery skatery. Sounds 80s skatery. 80s skatery. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe.com.

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the ramp and he is not there finally about 10 minutes before he's scheduled to skate he comes barreling in in his car into the parking lot he's trying to get in real fast and i don't know if he doesn't have the proper credentials or whatever the case is the people running the parking lot are not letting him through and telling him he does not have the proper cadet credentials to drive through and to go to the i don't know skating apparatus here yeah so he just pushes through with his car and fucking keeps going okay so not okay all right so he just figures whatever i blew off these rent the cops and that's that uh they chase after him you know he's giving him the finger and all that kind of shit problem is they're actual police officers you can't just push by them in their in your in your car no so he gets to where he needs to be

he parks people see him all the kids see him parking and shit they're like hey it's gator and people are cheering for him and behind him comes a gaggle of cops uh to talk to him and so the kids are all watching this all these kids there at the skating competition are watching there there's gator why are all these cops chasing and what's going on so they see that the cops come up to gator and start yelling at him you can't fucking do that and what are you doing and blah blah blah so all the kids start booing the cops right and throwing shit at them and of course you know they're that's their hero they want to see him skate don't yell at him right and they're all you know this is their opportunity to live the whole fuck the police thing and you know all this shit's like yeah we can fucking rebel right and there's a whole crowd of us what are they going to do

so there's thousands of us so they're yelling at gator gator hauls off and punches one of the cops you definitely can't do that you really can't do that that's super illegal but the crowd goes yay the crowd goes batshit crazy for him like he just won a heavyweight fight right and the cops then have to subdue him and then the crowd goes boo and starts throwing shits it turns into a fucking half a riot oh no because they they they're gonna take him away in cuffs he's on the ramp in five minutes that's who they paid to see what are you fucking doing assholes let him on the ramp i don't care what he did you shouldn't have been chasing him in the first place he's our hero is the way they're

looking ticket and then you're gonna arrest him over it and then they he punches a cop which makes them happy and then they're accosting him and this causes you know they had to keep the kids back they're throwing shit rocks and things and kids are ready to riot over it and these are teenagers with probably arrest records these are punk ass teenagers that have an attitude and they are worshiping the guy who has the most attitude of everybody and then you know so it's a bad crowd to piss off basically so he does though the kids go crazy there's a like a to piss off, basically. So he does, though. The kids go crazy. There's a teen riot. It was bitching, let me tell you.

It was pretty bitching. Other than that, I can't say much about it. I was stoked. You're on a beret. Yeah. In the Stoke documentary, berets flying off from punches. In the Stoke documentary, they talk to all these skaters at this point who every one of them has a story about we were in this town and he punched a cop we were in this town and he fucking you know

he kicked a you know broke the bank's window in the front of the main street of the town like he's crazy everybody has the crazy gator road story if he's a lunatic and he's a menace to society and he's apparently punched cops and municipalities all across the united states but as thus and so far uh the only people that are suffering his wrath are people telling him not to do what he's doing that's the thing yeah they're police they're the yeah yeah authority figures authority figures and people who it's all all as omar might say it's all in the game yeah for everybody him getting arrested for fucking off and them getting you know having to deal with his bullshit it's kind of all in the game for everybody you

know taking this job you didn't want to deal with this asshole yeah it's one of those things that bothers me by the way yeah when someone can't deal with people as a cop i feel like your number one job and i'm not a cop obviously i don't know the pressures of the job but your number one job is to deal with people right and diffuse shit right like when you that's their job your public babysitter that's it right that sucks that's a shit job fucked up job that's the that feels like that's the fucking job yeah like watching live pd the other night again we'll go back to live pd here still on tv i'm watching it's in indiana and they pull this dude over in his driveway as he's pulling in his driveway they

pull him over right he's in a car he's in a car and they pull him over and he's he admits right away that they said hey this plate doesn't match your car and he goes it's my other car's plate i just got this when i switched it my bad yeah you know i i know i know it's wrong i'm trying to hide from you one of those things you got me give me a ticket whatever it's not a big deal not the end of the fucking world it's not a stolen plate or a stolen car it's it's it's his plate it's mine it's just the wrong car for this world. It's not a stolen plate or a stolen car. It's his plate. It's mine. It's just the wrong car.

Not for this car. Yeah, it's fine. He wanted to go to 7-Eleven quick, whatever. So, by the way, we'll get to 7-Eleven in a second. Remind me of that. So, as he's being pulled over, his white trash family starts pouring out of the house. Yeah. Right?

And one of them is this teenage kid. And this was just this past weekend. And this teenage fucking kid, and he's got a mouth on him. And he's out there cursing. He's like, it was fucking bullshit and blah, blah, blah. He's on his own property. He can say whatever the fuck he wants to that cop because he can say anything he wants to the cop. Freedom of speech.

That's what he said. And the cop goes over and he tells him. I mean, he's abusing the cop. He's giving him the fucking business. You know what I mean? He's doing what these kids were doing. That's what it reminded me of. So the cop goes over and goes, hey, watch your fucking mouth, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And the kid goes, freedom of speech, man. And the guy goes, that's fine. Yeah, freedom of speech. He goes, but keep your goddamn voice down. Or keep your voice down, he tells the kid. First of all, no. No. Unless it's a public disturbance.

He wasn't at that level. He was speaking like I am now, probably. That's how loud he was. Get off my property, fuckface. That's what I mean. So he goes, yeah. And he goes, well, freedom what I mean so he's like so he goes yeah and he goes well freedom of speech and he's like yeah we'll just keep your voice down the cop goes to go back to the car

the kid turns to walk the other direction the kid just goes go fuck yourself not at the shouting level at the same level the cop said was okay when he said you know well fuck you then and he goes all right fine then you can say that but say it at that voice let me say go fuck yourself the cop turns around goes over tackles this teenager and starts cuffing him.

Hands behind your back. You're fucking under arrest. Now, at this point, the whole rest of the family comes out of the house. The fucking mother starts freaking out. Police brutality. These goddamn motherfuckers and son of a bitch. And there's an old man with suspenders and a big white beard. He's like, Grandpa, he comes out.

What's going on out here? Why? Why are you taking little Timmy down? And fucking another guy who's like grandpa. He comes out. What's going on out here? Why? Why are you taking little Timmy down and fucking another guy who's like her, you know, brother comes out.

Anyway, they end up fucking five, 10 other cops end up coming. The mother's yelling and screaming because they're jacking

this kid up for saying, go fuck yourself. They end up tackling the mother, which then sends the other guy in. What the fuck? So they shove him down

and then they cuff him. They end up tackling the old man with the beard and shit and suspenders who can barely walk just because he came over. So what the hell are you tackling my daughter for? They cuff him. They took all four of them to jail. So he went from a situation where he could have just laughed it off. He could have said to that kid, hey, hey, whoa, hey, what the fuck, man?

Chill out, brother. Jesus, you kiss your mother with that mouth? Get over here for a minute what are we doing that's all that would have taken the kid would have went well you know blah blah he went hey man i'm not a dick let's be fucking by i'm not trying to harass you all it would have taken little and even if that he would have just even if the kid was still a dick he could have said well each their own whatever let me finish my ticket who cares move on your dad i was maybe gonna let your dad slide but tonight for sure he's getting a ticket who cares move on your dad i was maybe gonna let your dad slide but tonight for sure he's

getting a ticket instead they had to have a my dick is bigger than yours competition and have four people that didn't need to go to jail go to jail and have all these cops have to tackle each fucking they're all covered in mud and rain ridiculous pointless what and how much taxpayer money did 10 cops stand in there for an hour take bigger question people sitting in a studio what the hell do they say to this do they not say what the fuck they went back to it and they were like well i mean you know like they couldn't they can't obviously rip the car but they were like um you know hey it's a counterpoint yeah they were like um you know and then the one guy the middle guy the sticks guy he got he says i mean just because everyone's in cuffs doesn't mean everybody's going

to jail a lot of times i love you'll just cough them and just to detain them and calm everybody goes. I don't think everybody's going to jail here. I think we're just going to calm everybody down, detain them. Then they go back to the cops and they're like, oh, they're all going for interference. The one like big, bald, fat fuck. He goes, they're all going for interference. This guy, you know, he said, you know, fine, take me to jail. I said, fine, buddy, you're going to let them all go for interference.

It's like, is this helping? Do you feel good now? Does it matter? Childhood dream is a chance, you fucking jerk. And then half the guys, and that's one particular one, then you go to the guys in Rhode Island who are just like, hey, buddy, what's up? They handle it just like that.

That guy would have said, hey, what are you cursing at me for, buddy? Guys in Rhode Island are like, I hope you get that judge from fucking Facebook and we get to watch the rest of this. Yeah, so, I don't know. That kind of shit bothers me of shit bothers me but i mean this is it's what i'm saying like sometimes thinking things can be diffused whereas guys like gator won't won't let you defuse the guy like gator would have socked the guy and then you get gator now we need 10 cops mixed with a guy that a public servant police officer job was his life dream yeah like he was

dressed as five as a cop. This dickhead's yelling at you for no reason. You know what I mean? Now you got those two going at each other. Yeah, so it's... Whatever. Gator claims to have robbed 7-Elevens in the South. Why?

He said he would get completely naked and rob 7-Elevens and then go get drunk in the woods while the cops looked for him. What? That was his... He did that for... I don't know if that's true or not or if he just that was like adding to his legend story what

he was trying yeah because he was trying to add to his yeah he was big into his image that's he knew that his image was marketable and he was into it but he just liked living that lifestyle anyway so everybody wins i guess for gator the the that's not even a robin hood story that's just a a drunk woodsman yeah that's a weird story. I get naked in Rob 7-Elevens, bro. They're not going to chase me. My dick's out. You know what I'm saying?

It can't be like, yo, red shirt, black pants, because I got no pants. Go outside, put pants on, fucking disguise. What was he wearing? A dick. A dick. A dick. He had some balls. I saw some balls. And as he ran away, he had an asshole.

So there's one of those on there, too. He he had an asshole. So there's one of those on there, too. He's got an asshole. So there's one of those. So there's one of those. We had all that coming. We have it on. Unbelievable. APB on a white male, dick balls, and an asshole on there.

They say he's got one of those on there, too. One of those on there you want to keep an eye out for. Oh, he's going to have an asshole. So make sure to all right over so uh it's good street cred for him for the guy who says that you know this is a good way to take out your aggression without breaking a bottle and slashing someone's face i suppose see you know uh 87 he's in the third place in the vision ramp and rage down south so that's a big competition there he's doing so well monetarily at this point

it's not even funny like he's living a fucking dream he gets the way the boards go he gets royalties on the boards yeah because it's you know your board uh he got two dollars for every board every deck that he that was sold yeah so i mean the decks are selling for 50 bucks but i mean a lot of that is manufacturing and it's just your name, but it's a brick and mortar store. You got to pay rent, all that shit. So two bucks for each board. Pretty good deal. He ends up getting, but there's some months where he's hitting 7,000 boards a month are

being sold. What? So he's getting $14,000 a month royalty checks, $15,000 a month. Just for the deck. Just for the deck. Wow. That's not the clothes. That's not the competitions competitions the autograph signings all

that shit is all extra this is just for signing a thing saying i'd like to you know your my name goes on your deck here's the art design i'd like on it and then you get fourteen thousand dollars again another comment from the hosoya episode that this is all equipment that has a wear and tear lifespan on it and if you're skating hard, you're beating the shit out of it. It's quick. Right. You do it out in the street and you stumble and flip your board back into the road. A car runs over it. Now you need a whole new deck. I've seen that. I've seen that. It's very sad.

It's heartbreaking. It's the saddest thing ever. Oh, you're walking home. That sucks. That's miserable. Your mom's never going to buy you a new one. That was your board for this year. Eight screws to take the trucks out of that. I remember my friend carrying it all limp.

God. We could take all the trucks out. Damn it. He's making a bunch of money. Also, Vision and all that sort of thing. He's first place in the Vision Bluegrass Aggression Session, 1988. That's too many SH sounds in there. Kentucky, I suppose, or something like that.

He's got, I mean, they have all the merchandise, too. He's in all these videos, too. That's the other thing. All these skate companies put out all these skate videos. The Vision Streetwear one was so cool. That was cool, but the Powell ones were awesome in like 88, 89. The Bones Brigade ones were really great, the street ones. And then they had all the h street

had good videos later on but they a lot of these skate videos were cool shit he's in those and he's a big seller for those uh you know he's selling there's gator fanny packs oh if anybody has a gator fanny pack from the late 80s that they still have yeah take a picture of it at least send us the picture of it because i really want to see a gator fanny pack he really missed a boat probably i don't i don't see him putting out much gator print anything you know what i mean yeah yeah like the alligator print he could have he could have fucking destroyed with yeah no he had his own thing that he was doing that that kind of we talked about in the first episode that kaleidoscope swirly board that's by the way re-released like crazy now yeah get those anywhere now no problem

it's awesome they're everywhere uh is he getting a chunk of that you think he might be i'm not sure i mean he can't i don't know he wouldn't be profiting off his crime i guess i don't know i don't know how that works i don't know what the rights were back then if they if he also had rights to reissue you know what i mean i'm sure they fucked those guys over where once it was sold that's your two dollars and eat dicks from then on like anything else is on us probably i doubt he had had that far ahead where if we sell if we reissue him 30 years from now i want to cut like i doubt he ever said that no one ever thought that would happen what are the words that are in the uh bobby bonilla contract the that make him get paid for fucking ever what in perpetuity yes yeah i doubt that that's it no there's no in perpetuity you're always gonna get this now he says this is fucking great he says uh quote not only am i the most unique uh dynamic

versatile skaters on the circuit but i'm also one of the most blatant and outspoken jerks he says i love getting arrested i'm one of the most illegal skaters in the circuit. All right. I love getting arrested. Well, he says that's at the end of a quote where he talks about how, you know, anytime they run like an article about what a jerk I am in one of the magazines or something like that, just ups my just ups my cred. He says so blah, blah, blah about what an asshole I am. And then at the end, he goes, I love getting arrested. Just helps me.

So good for me. Yeah. interested just helps me so good for me yeah uh so in uh now 1987 peak of his of his powers right here i mean fucking everything is going well for him money coming out of his ass he's doing what he loves and he's doing it hanging out with his friends too that's the weird thing it's not like he met all these people later he grew up skating with these people these are people he met along the way that you know he was fucking seven games seven, James. That's what I mean. This is like, you know, if everybody from Second City in the fucking mid-70s went to SNL.

Right. They all came up together. That's what they're doing. They're all on SNL now, and they all were doing improv for 20 bucks a show a couple years before that. So wild. It's kind of cool. You know, that's got to be fun.

Yeah. You, your friends, girls partying. Shit, yeah. Fucking, yeah. Everybody likes you. you know that's got to be fun yeah you your friends girls partying fucking yeah everybody likes you so he's 21 years old in 1987 uh doing great top of the world sounds was california sun shining down on his golden tan skin california dreamin plays over and over it's on repeat it's just in his head yeah that's all it is It comes out of his board as his wheels turn.

He goes to Scottsdale, Phoenix area, if you're not from here, for a skating tournament of some kind. What the hell was that event? I don't know. There was some event here in 1987. Who knows? Somewhere in the desert. They probably put up boards and shit somewhere. They probably put it where they stuck that fucking soccer field now, that pop- team at the river here you go here's some bleachers enjoy that couldn't look

more temporary it looks so it looks temporary as in they put it up for today and they're going to take it back down at the end of the night when this is over who knows if they're gonna have another game here next week that's honestly no fucking idea it looks like if they were having a fair and they're setting up like a you know a side stage for john cassidy and the beaver brown band but you know they're going to take down the next day that's what the soccer stadium it's hilarious because if you've ever been to the renaissance festival out in way fucking east out there in the middle of fucking nowhere valley yeah they never break that down because they know that that shit's coming no one else wants months. And no one else wants that land. It's a desert in the middle of nowhere.

It's fine. But that shit, they pack it all up. It's so fun. That place is ridiculous, too. And they're always like, they really need to get a permanent stadium. And everyone's like, no, that's fine. I think we're all right. We're all right.

No, taxpayers aren't paying for that. What are you kidding me? God, no. No. Oh, no, no. Silly rabbit. No, no. no no no no silly rabbit no no and it's awesome because one of those guys uh listens to the show and he doesn't play for them yeah rising he plays for another team but he was there

here visiting playing them and he was like hey i'd love for you guys to come out and sit on our side of the stadium you know it's just pretty fucking great you know thank you staying for that temporary ass shit our side of the stadium. Come sit on the blue side. Jesus Christ. It's Little League. It's not Little League. It's professional.

The players are wonderful. I couldn't do that. They're great. Nothing against the players. The difference is, James, Little League stadiums don't come down. That's true. They keep those up all year round. They have more staying power in the community than their stadium

over there. It's hysterical. They're like, we can just deflate it, right? And take the bleachers down. Yeah, right? We don't need that. Pull down those cardboard signs. They'll be alright. That's fine. We're going to have a farmer's market here on Saturday. Tear it down for the farmer's market! Put the tomatoes right down

in the South Gull, please. We've got bountiful baskets here at 7 a.m. Saturday. It's fucking ridiculous. Oh, my God. So, 1987, he comes to town for a tournament. And he meets a young lady that we'll get into here. Two young ladies come to this tournament to see the skaters. They like skateboarding.

And they're also, they want to see the guys. They like seeing the guys. These are like, you you know they think they're real attractive handsome guys these are teenage girls they're 15 16 years old so we're talking you know fucking teenage girls who think who thinks the skate yeah sophomore and junior who think the skaters are hot so they're gonna they're from tucson they're gonna drive up to phoenix for the big skating tournament and look at all the uh the hot dudes but basically that's what that was the plan okay uh they're both from like kind of wealthy families they're both tall attractive blonde girls from kind of you know upper middle class families the one's father's a lawyer and that sort of shit so they're they're they do okay and they're they're coming up here to

hang out and to see the whole thing to get a guy to bring home to dad that he's going to fucking hate. Yeah, some guy with hair and a beret, giving him the finger. No shirt and suspenders. Fuck you, dad. What's happening? This is Jessica Bergston and Brandy McClain. And Brandy with an I. The 80s version of Brandy.

Side ponytail. Blonde hair and an I on the end of her name. 80s. Shit. Brandy McClain, Jessica Bergston. They come, and while they're at the tournament, they end up meeting, actually. Jessica ends up meeting and becoming, I don't know, whatever with. I'm not going to speculate on the nature of their relationship. But for lack of a better term, hooking up with, whether in a sexual or just a hanging out way, we don't know.

But hanging out with Christian Hosoi yeah so they end up getting together okay so this is all coming full circle here they're hanging out for a little while that day they end up just deciding to introduce her friend brandy to a skater that he knows yeah mark rugowski so they hear she they introduce him to gator and they introduce her to gator and and they hang out for that night and everything like that. You've got Christian Assoy and Jessica, and then Brandy and Gator. So that's the way this works. Now, Gator and Brandy hit it off like crazy. Right now.

Now, she's like 15 turning 16. He is 21 years old. Right. Not okay. It's illegal. Yeah. As we've said it in the first episode, not crime and sports approved behavior whatsoever. Illegal and also just not cool.

No. Both. And as coming from a family that's successful. Yeah. She knows that. Yeah. It's fun for her. It's exciting.

It's wild. Well, he's the bad boy now. And she likes the bad boy. Oh, he's bad. All right. He's the bad boy. That's terrible. He's older.

Yeah. That's the thing. It's not. Some things are legally wrong, but they're morally like, who cares? The Josh Gordon situation in some states would be that. And some things are morally fine, but legally wrong. You know, like if you kill a pedophile, you know what I mean? Like that's everyone's going to pat you on the back, but you're still going to go to

prison for it. Whereas this is just wrong on all. Oh, boy. No one outside of the fundamentalist mormon sect of the fucking northern northwest corner of arizona this is not okay so northeast corner wherever the hell it is southwest corner colorado outside of warren jeff's house this isn't all right this is bad behavior outside of the 50 mile radius of the four corners yeah this is terrible exactly what was it colorado colorado city don. Don't slam my city with that shit.

I'm like, the white trash one is Springs. The other one's city. Okay. That's what I got. Thank you. White trash Springs. White fucking gross city. White slavery city.

White trash Springs. White slavery city. Got it. Okay. Just checking. Just making sure. That's right. Okay.

That's the town slogan, actually. Not to be confused with white slavery. He's pretty. Now, they became a couple very quickly. She says, love at first sight. Just hit it off, you know, loving everything. I got news for you. Yeah.

That ain't love. Well, yeah. It's affection. Yeah. Well, that's Yeah. That ain't love. Well, yeah. It's affection. Yeah. Well, that's it. And he takes her. He keeps flying her to California, which she's a teenage girl.

And she's being. How the fuck is she pulling that off? She has some very lenient parents. Pre 9-11. Well, it is a pre 9-11 world we are talking. That's true. Post 9-11, none of this would have worked out. None of this is happening. None of this is happening at all.

Listen to last week. Pre 9-11. I don't know why we're saying that fuck you can get right you can just get on a plane and go see your adult boyfriend and have sex with him and your parents were fine with it state lines your parents were fine with it okay the law was okay with it apparently right back so yeah they they she he flew her all over we'll talk about that in a second they became a couple she has she uh he asked her to move in oh she's 17 years old yeah and uh the parents let her move there oh boy oh yeah it's a it's a carl's bad they're they're moving to yeah beautiful uh at one point they're like a block away from the beach oh jesus it's

nice nice goings here at 17 yeah what what would you do at 17 that's what i mean yeah a very i, I don't know, successful girl at 24 is like, come stay with me. I don't blame her at all. I mean, I could see her being taken. What a dream. This is excessive. For any teenage person, girl, boy, anything, to be able to just look beyond this is asking a little much of them, I think. It's a lot to ask. It's a lot to ask.

We're talking, you know, this is practically Elvis coming to the house. Right. You know, to her, that's what this is. Exactly. So it's a lot to ask it's a lot to ask we're talking you know this is practically elvis coming to the house right you know to her that's what this is so it's like this is a big deal so you can't blame her but he has to know oh that's illegal and there are adult girls that i could go out with but he's there are girls that are not i don't know a third of my age younger girls so bizarre who aren't worried about their chemistry final. That sort of thing. Things of that nature. Who aren't worried what period their lunch hour is going to be this year. Unreal.

Jesus Christ. That are much more, forget lunch hour, that are much more comfortable with their period. She's still like, wow, this is so weird. At this point, this is bizarre. Yeah, she's still like, I don't know. at this point this is bizarre yeah she's still like i don't know i don't know what's going on i'm not even sure which one i like do i like pads or tampons i was gonna say she's still uncomfortable with tampons like i don't want to stick it in me we are so ignorant to girls issues i've heard girls some girls would have that issue where

they were like they had to wait till they're like 20 to figure that out. Fine, I'll jam it up in there. It is easier. I don't know. Seems easier, but yeah, you do have to hold on. I'm juggling the decision. Do I just be disgusting and let it all fall in there or do I just fucking preemptively get it to soak up there? Just fucking jam some.

It seems like a very personal decision of whatever you're okay with. I hate that, making that decision. Women, I salute you. God bless you. We don I hate making that decision. Women, I salute you. God bless you. We don't have that at all. That's the other thing to add to your cousin driving and breastfeeding and pumping and putting in a cooler. At the same time, she could have been bleeding out all over the place, too. So there's a lot going on.

She's probably still wearing those giant underwear that you've got to wear post-pandemic. She pulled it together, brother. There's an article here, by the way, that that i'm gonna get a couple things out of by a guy named lyle e davis and i only give him credit because a lot of this shit is like you can get it anywhere but he had some uh his family kind of had some dealings with mark when they were younger so he had a personal take on it so i give him credit for some of that stuff here now uh brandy brandy said they were just having the the dream life for a young partying couple she said quote we would get high every night we wouldn't do coke every night but we'd do bong hits we'd go to the sandbar at the end of his street and get screwed

up then we'd hang out in his jacuzzi get drunk off our asses and go in and have wild sex all night oh my god that's that's his life everybody what a life that's his life with a smoking hot teenager that's this guy's life that he's fucking living and that's her life that she's living that's a great life for anybody that age it's fantastic jesus christ i can't even imagine yeah i mean is that what your life was when you were 22 exact just like that right it's totally. I think it's the jacuzzi. Sandbar. Can't do coke every night. I mean, you know, that'll take the toll on you.

I've always dreamed of going out on the ocean to find like a sandbar that's, I don't know, a mile out. Because those fucking exist. Where you can get off the boat and just wade in like waist high water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then just drink beer during the summer. This chick was doing it at 17. Oh, yeah.

I'm not sure if it was that or if it was maybe a bar called the Sandbar. Oh, it could be. I think it was a bar called the Sandbar at the end of his street. Maybe. That's what it says. I don't know. They were blocked from the beach, though.

That's true. She could be going out on the Sandbar. You know what? I'm going to say. She's under 21. She can't get in that bar. Well, he can in that neighborhood. Yeah, that's what I mean.

In that neighborhood, it's okay. He's going to walk in. They're not going to ID his girl. I want answers. You're not going to get any. So he spent tons of money on her. He flew her all around to all these competitions. His brother, Matt Rogowski, says, quote, he flew her to Brazil and to Europe.

These are expensive flights. Destination. He bought her two cars, which is a lot. Yeah. Quote, she was a gold digger. But when they were together, they were absolutely in love and you could see it. So that's kind of the way this goes.

Is she a gold digger or is he offering shit up? That's the thing. I mean, well... You know what I mean? Okay. At this point, we're not sure. Later on, I'm going to give

a little more evidence and you can judge for yourself because wait till you see where Brandy ends up later on. but that's beside the point for now but i'm just saying i'm just looking at the point of like sometimes if you've got somebody that's hotter than you and you know it well you go out of your way a little bit to spoil i think they like like her brother said they when they were together they were absolutely in love i think they were totally into each other i think he had a bunch of money and didn't give a shit and threw it around and i think she was enjoying living the lifestyle

as anybody would yeah and he was enjoying it as anybody would and at the time their money was flowing so who cares enjoy it so i don't feel like i don't feel like it was she was thinking like oh i can't stand this guy but i'm gonna let him spend money on me i don't think that's what it was i think she was in love with him that's like awesome he's rich too right or that helps i dig him and he takes care of me yeah in excessive ways and that's what it was. That's where I'm looking. I think she was in love with him. That's like awesome. He's rich too. Right. Or that helps. I dig him and he takes care of me in excessive ways. And that's okay too. Yeah. But the thing is he's got to understand that he's in a profession that's a fad and a goddamn

not sustainable one. Well. And he's got to be careful. That's the problem. And he starts taking himself very seriously around 1988. Very seriously. Yeah. He starts taking his business things very seriously, which is good, except when your

whole image is built on not giving a fuck. And that's what's made you of something. When you all of a sudden turn Johnny Corporate, then your audience will turn. If we all of a sudden started doing Bluetooth commercials and all this shit that we said we wouldn't do, and we're doing whatever the f like all this shit that we said we wouldn't do and we're doing like whatever the fat of the minute is like our audience wouldn't stick around no they'd be like this isn't what they said this isn't who they are telling us about kale they haven't cursed in an hour you know because they're trying to tone it down for the advertisers we've

been told that hey you guys will get more advertisers if you're less filthy and we go that's nice stick it up your ass. That's not us. We're going to do the fucking show the way we want to do it. And you can suck our dicks. Can you have James tone down the weed talk? Because that is not going to get us. Well, what about?

Guess what? When we were at Podcast One, they tried to, at one point, they tried to get us to do a clean show. They said, can you guys do a clean version of it? And we were like, no. They were like, well, you know, if you do a clean, like Stone Cold Steve Austin does a one version, then a clean show. Yeah. They said, can you guys do like a clean version of it? And we were like, no. They were like, well, you know, if you do a clean, like Stone Cold Steve Austin does a one version, then a clean version. We're like, we're not Stone Cold Steve Austin. Can I forward you to our Instagram page of that sounds terrible.

That sounds terrible. We don't. They also want us to break the show up into four parts and release it to you guys over the course of the week, which would be annoying. Like, why don't we just alienate our entire audience? Spike your numbers. Yeah, no, how about let's just build them slowly. Can we just do it the right way?

That's what we've been trying to do. What if we were just honest with them? Yeah, oh, wow. What if we did that? We're fucking trying. We're trying. But this is kind of when he starts seeing himself. He starts talking about having a modeling career at this point as well.

Nope. Because he's, as we'll talk about, he changes his name now name now okay still goes by gator yeah but he drops the ragowski that's kind of a hard polack it's a polacky name like you sound like you're from eau claire wisconsin if you got that name it's a little it's a little much so he's like that's not cool but his the way he puts it he goes also that's my dad's name and fuck my my dad. All right. He was never there for me, so I'm dropping that shit. I'm just going to be Mark Anthony. No. Because that's his middle name.

Oh, boy. So now he's Gator Mark Anthony. So he goes with Gator and then throws- Yeah, he's still Gator, because that's his nickname. That's his whole shtick. That's what it says on his board. He can't drop Gator, but Rogowski doesn't matter. He makes Gator his first name.

Yeah, he's Gator Mark Rogowski. So it's Mark the middle name anthony the last name gator mark anthony now that sounds it's much more model-y and sexier right hi i'm gator mark anthony sounds like a fucking uh latin guy isn't that j-lo i feel like that's yes yeah because i need to know yeah that's who he is now mark anthony unbelievable i think that was that guy but yeah that's that's that guy real ugly guy somehow fuck j-lo i don't know how that happened got a clothing line at cole's wow that's that's amazing that's how understanding women are j-lo fucked that guy right good god what happened there she woke up and went what am i doing right jesus i'll just get some meathead with really nice

arms on it hey rod yeah grab him he's fun the girl from uh madman just divorced a ghoul of a man too it happened i forget that i forget her name uh hendrix christina hendrix the redhead yeah yeah her boyfriend or husband was the dude from uh uh super troopers that was like licking the the oh yeah that's not gonna last no no no no that feels it feels like the i just found out this week that uh some some we ran out of supply of whatever drugs that man was using. Because she woke up and filed divorce. She's not hallucinating anymore. Ran out of mushrooms.

But done ran out of shrooms. So he's changing his name, and he's changing his... Trying to be more of a cool image and and shit like that and the kids are like huh what he goes from there's no like he doesn't make a big deal out of it just one week in the magazines they're talking about Gator Mark you know Mark Rogowski next week it's Gator Mark Anthony

people are like was that who the fuck is that is that Gator still looks like Gator I mean why is he going by that name it's just a weird thing that everyone's like all right I guess he's Mark Anthony now whatever the fuck who cares it's one of those things like nobody gave a shit but uh interview yeah whatever uh but he's still i mean he's still the one of the most famous skaters there is it's tony hawk there's him there's a soy there's a few of these big guys i mean he can walk into any place any place in any surf or skate shop and they'll just

give him shit like oh you're gator here take some wheels some trucks whatever you need like you know hey cool mention us somewhere you know that sort of shit they didn't care uh he says uh he says that he would have he had tons of of girls around him too and i think maybe that's why brandy was there all the time because if i'm her i'm thinking i ain't letting this fucking guy go on the road. I know what he's about. I'm probably going to go with him, I think. How did I meet him? Yeah, exactly. So it's one of those. Yeah, so she ends up living with him.

It's at this point where he's 89. He's in Gleaming the Cube, the Christian Slater skating movie. I just saw that again recently. Fucking awesome. Did you really? Yeah, I did. It was on Amazon Prime. It's so long.

The Asian brother. Don't watch it, James. You're going to get so upset. Oh, I remember how did it was on amazon so long it's very it's uh the asian brother don't watch it oh i remember how bad it was yeah i remember even as a kid knowing it was so cool to me as a kid and then i watched it again i was like oh god you guys are such bad actors all i remember is his brother huge rams fan apparently is it the whole family hey i'll have rams hats on just everything nfl all the time la ram shit every all like this is a really good aggressive rams hats on just everything nfl all the time la ram shit every all like this is a really good aggressive rams fans in this movie good news is that kid died before um yeah to see the whole thing yeah i moved to st louis and come back again he'd have been happy now so yeah he's in gleaming the cube he plays one of christian slater's stunt doubles because he's a shorter guy about the same

size in that movie we talked about i think a soy was in it too we talked about him tony hawk and mike mcgill and all his guys that redhead kid that is in a bunch of movies he's like yeah yeah but he never smiles in anything he's always like i don't know right yeah he always looks like his back hurts i don't know i got back pains it's just one of those things yeah was he the guy from drugstore cat you never saw i don't know never mind he played the junkie he was in so many movies in the 80s. He's in everything. Yeah. In the late 80s, early 90s.

Oh, God. So many movies. He always plays like a dirtbag. And I don't know his fucking name. I don't remember either. But he's got a weird way of talking, and it's not like an LA or any Southern California thing. It's like a...

I don't even know where he's from. It sounds almost like Jersey, but it's like a grimace that he's in pain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he can't get the words out. Yeah, he's like if Michael Rapaport had a son. he'd be that exactly what he is he'd be that guy minus opinion he had a son with fetal alcohol syndrome it would be that kid michael rapaport's fetal alcohol syndrome survived the abortion yeah i got a little debt in my head but i survived it you know what i mean they forgot to make the

put the pointy part out in the coat hanger my smile isn't quite straight because that's where they hit me i got it i'm right though i'm here he also appears in the tom petty free-falling video right talked about he's when they show the half pipe he's the fucking guy skating on the half pipe it's fucking gator man and uh his girlfriendy, is the girl who's cheering him on right there on top of the halfpipe. The blonde girl, 80s, you know, hot California girl, you know, blonde hair. Clapping and shit. Clapping and jumping up and down while he's... That's them.

This is what I mean. You can't... Literally, Tom Petty's in the foreground singing, and you're fucking doing moves while your hot girlfriend jumps up and down with rock and roll it can't get any better than this grace grace unreal that is as grace as it gets right tom petty is singing to your skating that's grace brother it's the equivalent of 60s and and uh driving a little deuce coupe with yeah with a fucking beach boys video brian wilson waving out your other window jesus christ unreal he's also uh he's in club mtv also they had remember that they would dance downtown julie brown uh and they had some little quarter pipe set up and they had him like that

yeah he was like one episode they had him like going up on quarter pipes and coming down like while people were dancing i don't know whatever and uh they show him he's got like a a douchey hat on not a beret like a like a like a cuban guy's hat like what a cuban guy like kind of like a fedora but with the shorter brim like a okay like a cuban guy on the beach picture an open hawaiian shirt and one of those hats on with like a like a pork sandwich, but with a shorter brim, like a Cuban guy on the beach. Picture an open Hawaiian shirt and one of those hats on, with like a pork sandwich. Like Tommy Bahama. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, we're talking about that kind of hat.

He's like wearing one of those, like all douchey. Pork sandwich? What? Cuban sandwich. Pork with pickles. I know what it is. It's just hilarious. You like pork?

You went with the words pork sandwich. What's important? Shopping cart jerk chicken. Hilarious. You like pork. You went with the words pork sandwich. I'm sorry. You like to put some pork. Shopping cart jerk chicken. Because if you said the word Cuban there, it would be redundant. That's why I said a pork sandwich. You went with pork sandwich. I know why you did it. I was working.

It's just the two words together. My brain was working. Fucking stumbled me. It's a weird thing. He also goes on the Swatch Impact Tour. Hell yeah. Which is they try to make it this it's ridiculous basically the guy who runs swatch tries to make this tour where it's like they try to have like

fucking intro music and like you know like like it's like a wrestling event basically like a pyrotechnic yeah that's what they wanted to do sell watches to sell watches and have guys skateboard and it was just a weird it just didn't really work. But I mean, at the time, it was a good idea, I guess. But this is the time now, the late 80s, and we talked, we'll go over this briefly because we talked about it with the soy too. The fact that he's a ramp skater, vert skating, and that is dying right now. It's not a thing for a little bit. It's not a thing.

Street skating in the late 80s, especially by like 1990, hit a hard thing where people wanted to skate on the street. You have to have a ramp to skate on the street you have to have a ramp to skate on a ramp ramps are expensive you need a big space you need someone who's built a ramp you need to upkeep it if ramps are dad's permission you need yeah as a kid it's hard to get a hold of a ramp is what i'm getting at if you don't have like i didn't grow up near a skate park and fucking wappingers falls and there's no skate park it wasn't in the city's budget like it is today no that's i mean nobody built that shit for kids it was you know it was a even private companies they'd be like oh the insurance

on one of those two kids are all going to kill themselves so i mean street skating everybody has a curb near them everybody has a park bench everybody has shit you can figure out to skate on so street skating became a big thing i know from my opinion that's the only way i skated as a kid still a thing today it's the big thing because you don't need a fucking ramp and even now there's skate parks everywhere and they kind of have a hybrid style where they have like these street courses that have like rails and shit where it's kind of like little has rampy elements but on a street very shallow yeah i would have fucking loved that when i was a kid but didn't have that so uh yeah but gator is a ramp guy and he is uh not good at the street skating.

And so he's kind of getting to be like, he's like, at the same exact time, like, picture, he's at the same trajectory as the band Poison, basically. We're like, he's cool in the early 80s. And in 1987, it's really awesome to have big poofy hair, 19 swatches up your arm and all that shit. But by 19... Secret print on shit. Yeah.

But by 1990, that shit but by 19 on shit yeah but by 1990 that shit was death that was like the uncoolest thing in the fucking world right was to be that the second you know teen spirit came out and some guy was look kind of pissy in a you know second cobain had a dirty flannel shirt and looked pissy anybody who looked happy with big blonde hair look was an asshole at that point it just was over with yeah and that's the same thing with skating like he represented that old guard of skating like when i came up it was like oh those are those old people that skate even though he's like you know 24 years old those are those old guys like you want the young guys so that's kind of what it was and uh even vision started to go downhill at that point and i remember too they

weren't really making that many boards. Nope. They just had the shirt and then the shitty shoes was about it. And Perry Gladstone, the guy we talked about before, he said, quote, he was about Gator. He was really worried about becoming a dinosaur. That was an entirely new type of skating. It was rad, more amped, and all the kids wanted to be a part of it. It was rad, more amped, you know.

You know, bitchin', to put it another way. That guy said that in a marketing meeting as a professional. Yeah, it was rad, you know, more amped. He set a briefcase down and then said, amped and rad. And bitchin' and stoked in the same sentence. He said, but except for Tony Hawk, none of the old pros could really skate both vert and street, and Gator was stressed out about it. That's a fact.

A lot of them later on, by the couple years into the 90s, they made the transition. A lot of these guys ended up, because they just had to. Lance Mountains and Ed Templeton did it, guys like that. But some of the guys couldn't make the switch. They just couldn't. Tony Hawk was actually pretty good at it. Yeah, so once Gator told his friend that he was stressed out and he was worried about if he's gonna have to quit skating at this whole thing uh he told his

friend quote i'd probably have some suicidal tendencies i'd feel low and cheap i'd feel like nothing i could exist i couldn't exist no way i'd kill myself lose my spirit i'd float away and my carcass would get buried that's what he said about having to quit skating. What's he going to do, get a job? Yeah. With what? That's a hard fucking lesson to learn, though, right there. Yeah. That's really ominous words of somebody that's talking about their career, too, though.

Yeah, well, I mean, if you're 24 and you're thinking, I could be washed up and I don't even have, I didn't even go to 10th grade. Right. Never mind, you know, an education or experience in doing anything. My girlfriend likes cars. Yeah, my girlfriend likes cars, and my area of expertise is punching cops and skating on a ramp. There's not a lot of jobs that pay car money with that kind of thing. So October 1989.

This is kind of the bad times for Gator here. He gets, he's in west germany this is when there were still two germanys oh this is still west germany east there's still a wall 89 i can't believe that was a thing crazy right so he is uh in west germany there i'm sure more fun than east germany seems like it uh he's at a hotel hanging out and partying and you know doing all of his shit he's getting shit faced partying going to a bunch of different parties. I guess there's a bunch of different parties going on. And what he ends up doing here, he's at there's a second story window.

And now apparently from what Jesus Christ from there, there's many different stories that how this happened. He's on the second story window. There's many different stories that how this happened. He's on the second story window. His friends, some of the people there say that he said he announced to the room that he could fly. Oh, boy. And decided to jump out of this window. Oh, no.

And attempt flight. And an attempted flight. He jumped from the window. Right. And surprise, he can't fly. I don't know if anybody was on the edge of their seat going, did he make it? He can't fly. It's pretty interesting. And he crashed down.

Another person said he fell out by accident of a window. And then somebody else said that he was actually trying to climb back into the room from the first floor. Got all the way up, crawled all the way up there, and then fell out when he was trying to get in the window. The one thing we do know is that he fell. He fell from a second story window in some way, shape, uh we're not sure but uh he almost died oh uh he landed on a wrought iron fence oh shit yeah which is why you don't want to fall out of windows in west germany oh fuck uh yeah it impaled his face neck and thumb what he was impaled on the fence literally stuck on the fence did we talk about this last time? Yeah.

Not in this much detail. That's why we're doing this. Oh, my God. And then the final thing. His fucking face. In his face. Oh, Jesus. Rot iron fence.

Face, neck, thumb just impaled hanging off a fence by his all his shit. Horrible. Holy shit. Horrible. They patched him up a little bit and sent him home. He spent his next few months just going to plastic surgeons over and over because he's still worried about his modeling career yeah he almost died fuck your modeling career you almost died maybe this is a wake-up call both your eyes motherfucker

and that's the thing and he also has a bit of a head injury after this too because he hit his head i mean when he was impaled he hit his head and uh his behavior changes and much like a boxer who's had like five uh you know fights that went the distance in a row and we go oh it's different behavior just totally takes a left turn at this point this is when everybody says he's a weird different guy now he turns into a different guy uh falls off and by the way he's been undiagnosed bipolar this entire time as well. We'll find that out later on when he gets looked at. But he also has mental issues. But at this point, he's got a pretty good injury, and it fucks with him.

I feel so bad for him right now. Right now, this is terrible. I mean, even if he did it to himself, it's still horrible. He goes home to recover. They said he looked the same, uh but uh he acted completely different sounded completely different spoke in a different way like his speech patterns changed just stabbed a new guy into a different guy head injury like he just turned into a different guy uh he said the one of his friends said that he said to him quote this is gator talking to him quote jesus christ

spoke to me through that accident oh boy i was a blind dude but now i can see i was a blind dude but now i can see and it's pretty bitching yeah i was a blind dude yeah to add dudes and rads and blinds and you know like fucking bitchins and shit into the bible is hilarious that's even funnier than making it brooklyn he just needed a a uh an antenna to speak to god and he got that in the form of a fucking rod iron sticking out of his face yeah wow you guys that's beaten down the word of the lord so at this point by the way breaking a rule yeah what is he doing finding religion not good uh he's finding religion not good he's finding religion terrible move uh for him especially and it doesn't do well for him he also buys a ranch at this point in the mountains by tony hawk tony hawk has his house out in the mountains and he has a big ramp there and they always show that

gator buys this weird circular house like beverly hills cop three man wants to live in a giant circle there are too many corners on this house too many hey man the man wants to live in a giant circle. There are too many corners on this house. Too many corners. Hey, man, the man wants to live in a donut. This is his prerogative. If you've got the money to live in a donut, you build a donut. You build a donut. It was three, right?

This is the wrong plan. Was that three or two? I think it's two. I think it's two. I don't know. He goes out and sees a house under construction, shows up, pretends to be the supervisor shutting the whole thing down because the plans are up, and then he just lives in the house. Gets rid of everybody for a week.

I love Axel Foley. That's phenomenal. I think that's two. I think it's two also because one was the, pretended to be the reporter for Rolling Stone there doing an interview with Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson can sit on top of the world

but as long as he doesn't sit in the Beverly Bomb Hotel because there ain't no N-words allowed. Brigitte Nielsen is number two, right? Sir, sir, sir. Yes, Chris Rock. That's the one. Chris Rock. I get $10 for cars, $20 for trucks. What the fuck is that? but jeet nielsen is sir sir uh yes yeah chris rock that's the one chris rock i get ten dollars for cars twenty dollars for trucks what the fuck is that sorry that's what it is

dump truck i think he pulled up and okay yeah that's two so anyway he's turning in with jesus freak here and he's got his uh he's got his new ramp and everything he doesn't have a ramp he wants to build a ramp but they all skate at t at Tony Cox's house and all that kind of shit. But Brandy, this is not the lifestyle she's into. This is fucking boring. Jonah and the whale. This sucks. This is boring.

They're hanging out just in the middle of nowhere, just hanging out, and his friends will come over. Where's the fucking coke? No partying. They're not going to the beach. They're not doing all the shit that they normally do. She's just bored. There's a lot of people who'd be bored just sitting in the house in the middle of nowhere especially if you're 20 years old you're fucking bored you know you're 19 this isn't what i signed

up for exactly uh he gets a friend of his he finds a friend he befriends a guy named augie constantino who is what he describes as a ex-surfer turned born-again christian and he's describes himself as becoming mark's spiritual advisor which sounds perfect uh yeah he converted to uh he said he converted to like evangelical christianity too not just like he was like hardcore born again yeah he's like fucking mike pence up there like boy yeah it turned into a real heart not just like you know what i think we should all be good to each other. Jesus is nice. He was like, listen, let me tell you about the fucking Lord. One of those people.

Sit down. Yeah. Also, too, at that point, he starts putting, there's like Christian symbols and skateboard designs on the decks. There's crosses on them. If you look now, there's gators with a cross on them and shit. It's weird. So he's really into the.

How'd you like to be in that marketing meeting i got new designs guys put some crosses you know what the kids love jesus so the kids are into so let me get this straight the kids think you're lame now so you want to put jesus on them and that'll make them that'll make all the rebellious kids think you're cooler you nailed it perfect great this is gonna be a fucking home run yeah you heard me yeah great now this guy augie had suffered a head injury four years earlier oh cool that uh that turned him into this as well right so apparently if you like extreme sports and you hit your head you will turn into a jesus person how did neither of these two idiots put that together that they

both have head injuries and now all of a sudden well they see it they they do chicken and egg thing they're going well i got the head injury which was a thing that made me see the lord that was just it was just a calling the lord did you saw it too you saw the lord me me too well what did he look like to you listen all right hold on rod iron fence let me tell you i don't remember what he looked like let me get a pencil we're gonna sketch this out long hair that guy that guy long hair beard get out of the guy on a cross scars on his did he have a fish by any chance or a loaf of bread or top of his feet bloody like that same guy that's the guy same damn guy some bitch i'll tell you what man that guy i don't know why I gave all these Constantino from the beach a southern accent. We should clearly be best friends.

Let's get together. We need to tell everybody about this. Fantastic. So he says, quote, I was out in Hawaii. This is Constantino. I was in Hawaii out drinking with some pro surfers. After leaving the party, me and a friend of mine were playing chicken when he hit me head on doing 45 miles an hour that's not a fun game a quote i guess i lost yeah yeah i think so say so

the quadriceps and his right legs were severed and it ended his surfing career and he decided that it was a message from god and then he should devote his life to christ that's what was going on james his his muscles came off the bone. Yeah, that actually happened to Vince McMahon. Really? Is that why he walks like that? No, no, that happened to Vince McMahon running into a wrestling ring.

When you dive into a wrestling ring, when they slide in, you have to make sure your legs are up in the back, or you will fucking, that ring, it's plywood. So you hit that, he blew out, he hit it with his quads,

blew out both his quads, and had to do what he had to do still in the ring oh my god and then get back there and have to recover for six months from that yeah i guess he hit the ring and blew out both his quads like that better guy that's yeah but that's why all the wrestlers say they'll do anything for him because they're like that dude fucking finished he finished the shit he was supposed to do with two blown out quads we can't go bitch and say my leg hurts i I can't imagine how bad that must hurt. It's got to be the most.

It sounds horrible. It really does. Absolutely horrific. He played chicken at 45 miles an hour. That's 90 into a brick wall. And lost, apparently. Wow. I don't think the other guy came out on top either.

No. He became known as the skateboard minister. This guy here. Jesus Christ. This is ridiculous he says quote i met mark just before he left for germany which was before the accident 11 and he says that uh uh he uh he he he's now he's a big church guy he says he calls himself uh he runs a youth ministry and all this shit this constantino guy he says i introduced mark to a personal god a god the father mark never had a father to speak of i showed christ to him and as the bible says he's our he's our own true father so of course that appealed to mark okay

interesting uh and this was around the same time where he changed his name to mark anthony so the whole father thing is becoming weird here. Now, once he's all healed up, Gator, from his injuries, he decides to go full on with the preaching and the Jesus shit. And he starts hanging out with Augie and going down to preach things. This is when you start getting. And he's going down to the beach and people are like, oh, shit, Gator. What's up, dude? Hey, can I get your autograph and stuff?

He's like, man, what do you think about Jesus? So this is like people want to talk to him. And then he changes the subject to Jesus. So they're like, they want to keep talking to him. Fuck, man. So they'll kind of like humor him about the Jesus stuff. But it's like, you know what I mean? It's a little bit weird.

It's kind of not fair. No. It's not fair. You're luring them in with your fame. And I guess that's what people do. Well done, Tom Cruise and John Travolta. That's what I mean. it's kind of not fair no you know it's not fair you're you're luring them in with your fame and i guess that's what people do so uh well done tom cruise and uh john travolta that's what i mean that's what that's what happened he's trying to this is early early scientology here yeah he says uh uh another guy who's a friend of his says that it was just it's a lot it's a lot he uh he said he

would tell cater would tell people like tell the sk, I gotta tell you about my secret friend. Oh, boy. And people would be like, what are you talking about? He'd be like, I have this secret friend, and they'd be like, interested, because it's Cater, and then it would be Jesus.

Oh, thank God. I thought it was your dick. Oh, Jesus. It's my butthole. Here it is. Hold on. There's one of those on you, too. I got my butthole.

This guy says, quote, I believe in the Lord, don't get me wrong, but Mark was just fanatic. Everything he said was Jesus this, the Bible that. He was way into me wrong, but Mark was just fanatic. Everything he said was Jesus, this, the Bible, that he was way into it.

He says he was a fanatic, but he was a fanatic about everything. That was just Gator. So people just thought, oh, this is just the latest thing he's into. Whatever he's into, he's into it a million percent.

Right. He'll have four watch swatches on if he likes watches. You know what I'm saying? So they're like, maybe he'll just get over that. This is his latest phase, right? Whatever, you know, this he'll just get over that. This is his latest phase. Right. Whatever.

You know, this is the same as those fucking swatches. Yeah. That goes away faster. The person he really wants to get into this is Brandy because he wants to settle down with Brandy. And he says, you know, hey, you know, can't marry no harlot. Yeah. We need to we need to be with right with the Lord here.

He dragged her to church a few times and she wasn't quite into it, though. No? She says, well, let's let her tell you. Quote, we literally had sex five times a day we were so in love. Then he met Augie and started saying, we can't have sex anymore unless we get married. And I'm like, wait a minute. We've been going out for four years, having sex, having mad sex for four years, and we can't have sex anymore.

I can't deal with this later. So she broke up with him over this. Yeah. Because he was like, I can't fuck you. She's like, what are you, nuts? They live together. They've been together for four years. The cat's out of the bag.

You've been fucking her. So, I mean, what do you do when you take it back now? Sorry, it's ridiculous. Yeah. So Brandy moves moves and this is just getting crazy brandy ends up moving in with her mother and stepfather who moved to san diego recently so she moves down to san diego and gets away from him uh uh augie here says about mark quote mark was devastated i think that it upset him even more than his accident in germany

look here's an exact explanation of what happened to her. And then he starts reading about Jesus Christ. He reads Bible verses. Oh, no. This is a good thing of what happened to her. Quote, 1 Peter 4, verse 3. Then you lived in license and debauchery, drunkenness, revelry and tippling. I don't even know what that is.

And the forbid den worship of idols. Now, when you no longer plunge with them into all the reckless dissipation, they cannot understand it. He says there you see Brandy just didn't get it. Mark found a new life in Christ. So, yeah, you're a fucking if you're a scumbag and you find a way away from the scum people aren't going to be on board with that shit because crabs in a bucket that's a biblical version of crabs in a bucket is just what he just said he also took a passage from the bible and said see this guy was living in sin and then he found jesus and then she couldn't handle it she can't take it yeah because she's the crow one of the crabs what the fuck man that's what she said so no tell me what happened

what happened is this girl got used to a lifestyle and this guy fucking yanks he changed it completely and was like we can't we're not even having sex never mind drugs and partying we're not even having sex anymore i liked when you bent me over the couch let's go to church that was great once a week sounds like twice a day five times a day they were fucking yeah how many times they were once or twice by the couch i figure at least just while you're walking by. Right. You never know. Remember when I would put the laundry away and you'd fucking grab my ass? I loved that.

Yeah. Do that. That's the thing. So Gator, yeah, he breaks up. Randy breaks up with him. And apparently she starts seeing one of his surfer friends, which he doesn't like, obviously. Gator started calling her mom's house as well,

where she was living and leaving messages on the answering machine. And she says, quote, Mark was crazy. He was calling me up, leaving me all these freaky messages. He'd growl, you bitch, you cunt. You're going to fry in hell from your toes. Weird shit like that. That's not very Jesus-y. That's what I mean.

This is not Jesus-y behavior. But this is his, like, rage. You can say that, but you can't push your penis inside her? But you can call her a cunt. Until she's going to fry in hell. I think Jesus would frown more upon that. He'd be like, hey, bro, you already fucked her. Stick it in her.

Make her happy. You know what? You can fuck the Lord in her. If you keep banging, maybe you can bring her over and say, I've been fucking better because Jesus is running through my dick. Running all through it. Let me put this Jesus conduit inside you. The power of Lord.

It's just so hypocritically stupid. Very hypocritical. This whole thing makes no sense. It feels like, doesn't Jesus promote loving? You know what I mean? I think usually that's his thing. He's got and hats i think that he puts on if you keep fucking her and loving her and caring it's much better than harassing her and calling her a cunt it's hard to you know what i don't think when i don't know what if there was like a jesus preaching i don't think he was

like and if they don't if they don't listen to the, thou shall call them a cunt until they listen. That will bring them to your side. And you can't just do it in a normal tone. You must growl it. You must growl it. On an answering machine. If that happens, it will be bitchin'. Bitchinly growl cunt into a Panasonic answering machine.

Burn and fry in hell. Fill a tape. into a panasonic answering burn and fry in hell okay fill a tape uh one night she came home brandy did to find that someone broke into her house through her window particularly her particular room window and only took certain shit only took all the stuff that gator gave her oh that's weird just everything that mark gave her is gone now uh obviously brandy said i think probably mark did this right how would anyone else know everybody on board with that opinion it's all mark right it's just my stuff he left like rings and shit money pile of money sitting there it's not but he took a picture of me it

took a vision hoodie and nothing else that's weird i don't know so the police also uh uh you know suspect gator yeah The evidence points that way. Yeah. And somebody from the district attorney's office said, quote, he took it all back, including the car. Oh. He even took the car back, everything. She says, the district attorney says, quote, it's kind of like a typical teenage stunt. That's what you do when you're 15, 16 years old and you lose your first girlfriend.

You want all your money back, every necklace, every ring. You know, give me my high school jacket and class ring back because we're not going steady anymore. Well, that's what he did and how he saw it. That's what it was. He is so immature. This whole time,

when I said he's 21, she's 16, they're probably on the same mental level. That's the problem with this idiot. Not that that makes it okay, but... Right, and then a wrought iron fence involved and now he's 12 now he's 12 and an asshole on top of it uh now brandy after all this she still was holding out hope maybe that he would come back to normal and they'd get back together again of course she is even after all this which is because she's even had other guys and everything like that she's been you know going out with other guys boyfriends she's still like

maybe it'll come back around. She's 20, James. This is five years of her life. That's a fourth of her life. Yeah, it's a big deal. A fourth of her life is wrapped up with this guy. And one time,

she invited him out to, this is funny, the way it's put in this article. She invited Gator to take her out to dinner. You want to go out to dinner and you pay for it? That's what that means. Invited her to take, invited him to take her out to dinner. you pay for it that's what that means

invited her to take invited him to take her out to dinner that's pretty funny right but you know i'd really like i'd really like you to buy me food yeah is that cool with you so she said though as soon as they pulled out of her parents driveway they started arguing about and she said quote he was still so mad about the guy i was seeing he's the one that uh he's the one that told me to go out and find one of my surfer friends to party with so i did i found this hot little blonde surfer guy six one so that's that oh god that's a fucking painful description oh my god jimmy just went oh bitch. I just see me. It's not even her.

Jimmy just got hurt. That you bitch wasn't for her. That was just for. That's just me seeing me at 21 telling a girlfriend, tough love, telling her, why don't you just go out and find somebody to date? You did? Who is it? Six one.

Hot. What? Jesus. Blonde? How dare you describe him like that? Fucking asshole. Hot little. He's 6'1", you bitch.

Yeah. Hot little blonde. Yeah. The fuck? He's amazing. Who have you been fucking? Who's been coming over? You have Kareem Abdul-Jabbar over here?

Who's shorter than that? Oh, that was so painful. She says, quote, and mark was furious yeah i get it i am this i understand he was driving out in the middle of this nowhere road out where my parents live uh when he turned to me with this really scary serious look in his eye his voice got all deep and you know he sounded like the devil he says you know says, you know what? I should take you out into the desert right now. I should drive you right out in the middle of the night and beat the shit out of you and leave you there. I would get away with it because everybody would know that you deserved it.

No, that's you. No. Whoa. I see a I don't see B. That is scary. Abusive insanity right there. Whoa. There's the difference between me and Mark.

Yeah. As I go, get out. I'm going to go home and drink myself into oblivion. Whereas Mark's like, I should take you in the desert right now, beat the shit out of you and leave you there. That's not crossing. I'm going to take it out on you, not me. That's the difference. That's the thing.

So, yeah. So he said, she said, I started crying and begging him to take me home right now. And I'm like, my mother knows where I am. And he took me back. So, you know, I believe, wasn't it Jesus that said, if she snubs you, stalk that bitch. I believe that was his teaching, right? Right? I believe you have to smite them.

Yeah, smite her and then stalk her and threaten her as well. Eventually she'll come back. If you threaten as well. Eventually, she'll come back. Right. If you threaten her hard enough, eventually she'll come back. I don't think that was Jesus. Especially if he's hot and blonde. She deserves it. Yeah.

So this scared the living shit out of Brandy. This is we're talking 1991, you know, early 1991 here. And this scared the shit out of her and scares her to the point where she heads to new york For some time away. She just doesn't want to be around as far away He broke into the house. He's saying I should beat the shit out of you leaving the desert He's gone or caught on the answering machine. She's like, okay I'm gonna get 3 000 miles away right now and not deal with this for a while Uh, she only told her mom and dad and her siblings where she was going

She told no one else none of her friends even because she didn't want anybody to tell him because he can charm it out of them and she didn't want it. So she said, I'm not telling anybody I'm going. Uh, now that's smart. And what, I mean, that's smart to do that. Don't tell anybody. But the problem is she also didn't tell anybody. So no one else knows that he's acting crazy lately.

She didn't tell him that she didn't tell anybody like, hey, Mark's been acting nuts or whatever. She told her family that. And that's why I'm going to New York. I'd tell everybody. Nobody else, though. It's fucking crazy. I'm getting out of town. That's where I'm going.

That's the thing. And then the problem is a friend of hers, Jessica Bergsten, remember her? Yeah, from Tucson. She moves from Tucson to San Diego a couple weeks after Jessica goes to New York. This is early March, late February 1991. She moves from Tucson to San Diego. She doesn't know. All she knows is Mark and Brandy live there.

That's it. She doesn't know anybody else there. Whatever. She moves there. By this point, Christian spun out. He's crazy. Oh, he's on so much fucking coke and shit right now. He's a mess.

Heroin. That timeline is a mess. He's a fucking disaster. Now, she knows no one else. So she calls Mark up to say, hey, will you show me around? Will you show me the sites? You know, San Diego. She doesn't know Mark's been acting all weird because Brandy didn't tell anybody.

She just took off to New York. She's never heard of a fence. She knows nothing about all this. She just knows Mark's a cool guy. Lives in San Diego. Maybe he'll show me around. Oh, God. So she does.

She calls Mark up and he says, sure, I'll show you around a little bit. I remember you. You know, you're that her friend because they were very close friends. They really were. They were. Jessica's the same exact thing. Tall, blonde, pretty. They're like carbon copies of each other and that sort of thing.

They're the same type. Got it. Put it that way. Yeah. She says Brandy says of her, of Jessica, quote, she was an incredibly intelligent, free spirited girl. Then when she wanted to have fun, nothing else mattered. We would go to Mexico together and she would say, get so drunk that she would leave me

there. If I couldn't get into bars because we are underage and had fake IDs, she would leave me outside for three hours while she drank. But were best friends we were very much alive it was like uh quick we're going to have the best time of our lives and we're going to have them right now all right so they were party they were party girls that like to go out and jessica seems like she's the wilder one even i don't know but i mean she'll leave somebody for three hours sit out here i'm gonna drink bitch fuck you like wow that's hardcore fuck off that's hardcore man i got drinking to do that's some guy shit that's what guys would do well i'll see in a few hours then that doesn't say girls would be

like i'll sit out here with you like that's really guy behavior i like that david off does a joke about that thing that exact thing that girls won't leave their friends at the bars and he's like i i've got six friends with me too i'll walk the fuck out of here right now and i guys are their friends yeah they'll leave their friends anywhere you could be in another state i don't care they'll figure it out uber exists goodbye not my fucking problem i mean i've committed him to getting between you and those jeans. That's insane, man. So she is, you know, she's hanging out. She calls Gator.

And then a few days later, they end up getting together to go, you know, show her the sights of San Diego. That's the premise of this, to show her the sights. There's the beach. There's nothing else to see. It's San Diego. There you got the beach. There it is. You can follow that right up and down the ocean. Have a good one. The Padres play over over there i don't know what else it's

charges padres walk that way eventually you'll find the rams and that's that enjoy bye mexico la okay point that way mexico that way la there's shit ocean between all the way yeah la mexico ocean bunch of shit you don't need to know about. The rest of the country, doesn't matter. That's it. You've seen it. Enjoy. So they end up having lunch at an Italian restaurant in La Jolla. So that's nice, showing a nice sight.

And then on the way home, because they were going to hang out, they're going to go back to his condo and hang out. So they stop. They rent some movies. You know, it's 1991. It's movie renting time. Pick up a couple bottles of wine, hang out and drink some wine, which again, it's 1991 right movie rent in time i pick up a couple bottles of wine right hang out and drink some wine which again it's recreational wine drinking isn't as jesus enthusiastic as it

could be a lot of christ in catholicism not evangelical they don't play that shit no they drink chardonnay it's the piss of christ yeah they don't they don't fucking play that shit they drink grape juice that's what they do and they're like blood of christ it's like no come on so uh they do that now while they're in his uh they're there um apparently they hang out they drink some wine um she smokes a joint um you know hangs out smokes a joint they're just watching movies partying and getting loose and uh he starts to feel a buzz going on yeah so he starts feeling a buzz from the wine uh so apparently he says he was going out to the garage uh to i don't know he can't find his key he's gonna he's gonna drive her home he's saying and he can't find his key so he's looking for his key and he says he's gonna go find his key

and he leaves and at that point uh she's in her in his living room just hanging out waiting for him you know you know when you people go to do something in your house and you just have to wait there oh it's awkward it's like you're in a waiting room in an office you just have to like look at their pictures like when you go into your bathroom to go piss and brush your teeth and get ready for this i just stand in your kitchen go dum-de-dum yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah this is weird yeah i'm in james's living space that's fine alone and i'm awkward that's well at least we know each other i come here for the past two years and it's so weird he's never been here before so for her it's like i guess i'll look at stuff so she's looking at a picture on his mantle

which is his it's his what he calls his favorite picture it's a picture of him skydiving it's a picture of him in mid skydive that somebody took as he was falling you know screaming all the fallen james free fall yeah he's you know screaming and all that shit and uh she's standing there just looking at this picture and uh gator comes back in behind her and uh walks up behind her and smashes her in the back of the head with a steering wheel lock like a the club fucking club yeah one of those uh smashes her two or three times in the back of the head and then in the face with this metal steering wheel oh boy that's out of nowhere this is the least jesus-y thing he's done so much they haven't had an argument no there's been no disagreements there's been i'll take you home now sure sounds good one could argue that banging a girl uh but

without marrying her for four years is more jesus-y than that way more jesus-y especially if she was into it jesus christ i mean you're just fulfilling a one you're being a nice person so she does that she falls to the floor bleeding obviously this is fucking horrible um so what he does is and this is all terrible everybody so buckle up for this. This is bad stuff. He handcuffs her while she's bleeding and struggling to keep her consciousness. He handcuffs her and carries her upstairs to the bedroom. So handcuffs her to herself. Yeah. Handcuffs her hands together. Carries her up to the bathroom here.

He then shackles her to the bed. Oh, boy. At this point, he cuts off her clothes with scissors. Okay. Now, how fucking scary is this by the way first of all the fact that you weren't even in a fight with this person they just decided to do this must be terrifying and extra terrifying the fact that where did this come from you're confused yeah it's not like oh you got in a big fight you took a swing at him and he hit you like

none of that happened this is just i'll give you a ride home fine and the next thing you know you went to dinner drinking wine i smoked a joint and now i'm getting beat this makes no fucking sense whatsoever so yeah this is great and then he's cutting her clothes off with scissors after he shackles her to the bed i can't imagine the the fear it must be going through so then uh i don't know how else to say this he rapes her right for three hours oh, that's too long. I'm going to. You know what? I think too much.

Any amount is too much. But that is excessive even for what's going on here. This is a lot. Yeah, this is terrible. Rapes her for three hours. Oh, boy. Horrible. While she's bleeding and terrified and shackled.

Horribly injured. Those things are so heavy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, horribly fucking injured. She is in bad shape. This this is disgusting this is fucking disgusting uh she's still conscious this whole time she's not unconscious that's the other thing this is horrible she's begging him to stop obviously she's screaming um at one point here she starts screaming and she decides that's how she's going to end this thing he won't stop or i'm going to have to scream you know whateverences be damned here.

If he kills me, he kills me or whatever he's going to do to me. But I'm not going to just take this. So she screams. And what he does is he gets a surfboard bag from her closet and stuffs her inside of it, thinking, I don't know, that would muffle the screams. He sticks her handcuffed self in a surfboard bag, which has to be the most. Now you're in a fucking body bag. That's what I mean. That the worst.

So she then screams worse because she also says she can't breathe now because who knows? She's probably in some kind of, you know, this is fucking frightening. I can't imagine. So he reaches or reaches into the surfboard bag and strangles her to keep her from screaming, basically. Strangles her until she's dead. Oh, boy. So he kills her, Jessica. He then flips over his mattress, you know, because it was bloody from the bed.

Flips over the mattress to get that. bloody from the bed uh flips over to mattress to get that uh he then puts her body and her cut up clothing uh all in the bag there everything uh the handcuffs that he used the club that he hit her with worst thing to happen to murderers were pillow top mattresses oh christ yeah fuck what am i gonna do now can't flip it now jesus christ goes one well i can turn it i guess and i guess it looks like it's the foot of the bed stay down there it's weird i guess i don't know that shit so he throws all this shit in the trunk of the car all everything that has to do with the murder and he drives into the desert in a place called shell canyon way out in the desert so it's like an hour and change outside of san diego okay off the eight just no there's nothing there as you know this is the

middle of nowhere right nowhere it's very much like the vegas desert the nevada desert it's vast out there it's vast and it's empty and it's away from the ocean nobody gives a fuck about it nobody cares nobody wants it it's desert uh so he digs a shallow grave out there and buries her naked there took her out of the out of the surfboard bed keeps everything else doesn't bury the you know everything else in there though just that just her body and uh just her naked body he leaves in the shallow grave piece of shit uh takes everything else there he then drives to phoenix really he just drove to phoenix and back that was what he did next drove to phoenix and back discarding things he did next drove to phoenix and back

discarding things along the way uh because he cut up the clothes so he's got bloodstained clothes he's just throwing pieces one piece at a time as he's going down the road how many times have you driven that route oh that's what i mean oh it's so gross so he's going he goes back and forth throwing little bits out all along the way of getting rid of everything that was there so much so but i mean no one's gonna find it spread out over 600 miles of desert you're not gonna fucking find oh here's a patch well i found a patch five miles down the road right none of that's happening so i mean i guess that's a way to get away with it uh now on the way back to his condo he rented a carpet cleaner and uh cleaned all the blood out of the rug in the living room yeah from when he initially

hit her so and cleaned the spot in the bedroom too so he's got now he cleaned up all the blood she's in a shallow grave every bit of her evidence has been discarded along the road perfect crime i feel so gross yeah i would fucking say so how could you not it is gross we talked about all this not in so much detail god this is so much it's a lot and there's more detail here with the rest of it and he's a scumbag i hate it so much her father is a guy named steven bergson he's a lawyer in tucson and she's been missing for a few days and uh he uh he's having a tough time by the way he's under investigation for money laundering really one of his clients was uh was raided by the drug task

force and was said to be a big kingpin allegedly i'm not sure how that case came out but uh he is apparently under investigation for money laundering for this client and doing shit like that so he's got that pressure and then he said his daughter moved out to southern california got there and then stopped calling all at once one day so she he said that isn't like her that's weird so he uh called the san diego police and they just said i don't know she's an adult and she's you know we have no signs of anything yeah but i got this client who's uh yeah what if somebody is kidnapping her to get back to me this is fucking scary he's worried that's what i'm saying that's somebody that's what he's scared about that's somebody look for her yes uh so what he does is he takes missing person posters with a picture of jessica on there and puts them fucking everywhere in san diego county just you

know whole whole county yeah papers the wall papers the town telephone numbers for the police department he talked to her friends he talked to everyone she knew he even met with gator he's investigating he's investigating on his own he's gonna find he's not satisfied with what the police department. He talked to her friends. He talked to everyone she knew. He even met with Gator. He's investigating. He's investigating on his own. He's not satisfied with what the police are doing. He even talked to Gator. Gator said that Gator shook his hand

and told him that, no, he didn't know where she was. I don't know, man. Sorry. If I hear anything, I'll let you know. Have you heard about Jesus? No, I've got a secret friend, though.

I can tell you about it. I mean, that's something here. Sweet Christ. I thought it was your dick. Damn it. Now, two months go by with nothing. No leads. Just disappeared in the thin air.

Just gone. No other witnesses. The only witness they found is a guy named Michael Edward Lacey, who lives in Pacific Beach across the street from her. Okay. From Jessica. She lived in PB. She lived in Pacific Beach.

Oh, she was crushing it. Yeah, this Michael Lacey said that he last saw Bergston, Jessica, standing with Mark, with Gator, on her porch of her apartment on March 17th, 1991. All right. So that is three days before that whole incident. So three days before the murder right she saw so they said that you know that's why the father talked to gator initially because she was she was just he was looking for anyone who's had any contact with his daughter and so he was like she called

me i met up with her and showed her around a little how's that you know i don't know i don't know what to tell you i'm into brandy you know that's what it was a big city so finally here april 10th 1991 this is kind of in the middle, a guy named Robert Lyon vacationing with his family in the desert at Shell Canyon. That's not a vacation, by the way. How much does he hate his family? He was trying to make his family disappear. That is not a vacation.

No. This is northwest of Ocotillo in Imperial County. Oh, boy. You don't vacation there. No. You get a speeding ticket there and then you pay it because you refuse to go back i'm not going here what is it 250 fine i don't even care take my fucking money now they're all out lion's son david ends up uh

uncovering skeletal remains of a human body out there uh the skeleton was on the ground near a ravine uh and it was kind of the dirt or sand had kind of uncovered wind or something that sort of thing yeah uh it's completely naked the body no clothing shoes jewelry on or near her nothing like that so they call the coroner obviously the coroner comes in and uh the death like i was trying to make my family just... I mean... Shit. Damn it. What were you doing out here? Vacation. Taking in the sacks.

Trying to put them on a permanent... We were just camping. We were here enjoying the sacks. It's just beautiful this time of year. So, the coroner notes that several upper upper front teeth are missing okay uh we can only assume this is from the club yeah uh oh fuck yeah it gets worse dude yeah the hands and feet and one calf were mummified from i guess being out there the elements uh the autopsy did not reveal signs of foul play because she's so decomposed. Now they get some fingerprints that will later be identified as her.

But for a while, they don't even know it's her. They just because the hands are mummified. Yeah, they just find they just find skeleton out there. So they don't know who it is. And there's just that's it. There's a skeleton found in the desert. Could be fucking anybody. Yeah, it's in the middle of the desert.

Yeah, who knows? Jesus. So they also they, you know, they didn't have, they thought maybe the missing front teeth was something that they could, that would happen, you know, that she had when she was alive. So that was a way to identify her. Dental records. But it wasn't.

Right. Because she had them knocked out then. So yeah, the coroner was unable to determine how long the body had been there. Obviously, we know that. And they said that they had flashlights to remove the body. He said that he did not examine the area where the body was located to see if there was any missing teeth, jewelry or clothing or anything like that. So, yeah, that's how that goes. So while this is going on, Gator's out there preaching.

Yeah. He's still living his life preaching. He had all sorts of posters up everywhere. One place where they liked to hang out was near a 7-Eleven, two blocks from his condo. They would hang out preaching to the kids. It was next to the beach. There was a pizza shop there and a convenience store, and this is where all the kids would come and hang out. So this is where they would preach to all these people.

convenience store and this is where all the kids would come and hang out so this is where they would preach to all these people and uh gator they said was the guy called him good terrific bait for young skaters because they'd see gator and want to go talk to him and then he'd go let me tell you about my secret friend yeah it's disgusting oh thank god it's just jesus so there's posters here he is zip so there's posters everywhere all around here uh and he continues to do his thing he's skating he's surfing he's doing his shit by the way he's trying to skate street at this point and i've seen some footage it's the most embarrassing fucking thing i've ever seen in my life i'm better than him and i didn't skate for 20 years and for i am better now than he was when he was trying to street skate it's fucking terrible he can't ollie like he just like he like can't do things he tries

to like do this grind and he just kind of slaps the board up with one foot like what are you doing bro keep your fucking jesus dude it looks like you'd never skated before it looks like it's like like you gave a 10 year old a board and then said you have three days to learn it that's what he would do it was weird so uh uh one time uh they're outside this is augie constantino says this he says quote one night at the 7-eleven gator and i were witnessing i guess that means bothering people about jesus translated annoying people about jesus uh we were witnessing bothering people about the lord telling people about our secret friends there was something extra awesome about bothering

bothering you know interrupting lives gonna bug people with some jesus so gator and i were witnessing and i saw this young girl with what they call a mini skirt i call them towels yeah oh he's so yeah so that's what he's witnessing girls in skirts awesome yeah i said to her go and put some clothes on and when you come back i'd like to talk to you about christ how about chill out westbrook fuck you fat boy he dicks yeah don't tell me it is 70 degrees all year long why don't you go fuck yourself joel osteen have a good one cocksucker he dicks jimmy swagger that's right guy oh yeah he was a real asshole jimmy swagger that's right that's right baker yeah fucking jim baker so then the guy augie says quote and she

said i've got nothing to worry about i've got no problems so i pointed to the poster of jessica missing that was right there and i said quote what about this girl she had nothing to worry about but where is she now she could have been involved in drugs pornography maybe she's dead that's a big stretch who said that this is augie yeah what the fuck she could be involved in drugs pornography maybe she's dead that's a big stretch who said that this is augie yeah what the fuck she could be involved in drugs or pornography or be dead and if you're ragowski you're going dude shut the fuck up hey calm down don't say the d word you crazy fuck maybe she's dead and then he says the girl just ignored us and jumped into a car but i got a strange reaction out of mark he was just kind of blank and silent and uh yeah so later on uh

a couple nights later they're at a bible study at augie's house and gator uh came back to the house with tears coming down his face crying his eyes out out. And the guy says, Augie says, I was getting ready for bed when I answered the door. And he said, Augie says, quote, he was crying and he said he was Judas. So he was crying and saying he was Judas. We sat, we both sat and cried. We prayed for about an hour asking God what we should do. About a week later, this is, he just came and said he's Judas. That's it.

So they sat down and cried together. He didn't tell him, I've killed? No. If you came to my house and go, Jimmy, I'm Judas, and you're crying, I'd be like, all right, fine, you're Judas. What the fuck is wrong with you?

What do you want? Judas, go the fuck home. You want a fucking beer or something? You want to smoke a joint? I don't know what to tell you. Can I help you with this fact? I'm crying, James. I'm Judas, obviously.

All right. Do I have to cry, too? Why do I have to cry I don't even know what the hell's wrong with you what does that mean you need to sleep in the studio Jimmy what are you doing here it's down there go ahead are you kicked out did you do something how did you do that

nobody you live alone just lock yourself out by accident how much do you hate you yeah so this happened and a week goes by with no explanation. Nothing. Nothing. And then he says about a week later, he came to me and said, remember that girl in the

poster? She was the one I killed. Wait. So you killed somebody. Now he's like, pardon? What? Yeah. So Augie talks him into turning himself in.

Okay. He says that he drove him to the police department early in the morning that morning. That's a good move. He says, well, that's good. But the advice he gives is not great from a legal standpoint. Quote, I said to him, Mark, you don't need a lawyer. You don't need innocent until proven guilty. What do you need a lawyer for if you answer to a higher power?

If a person is accountable to god then he's accountable to society the bible says that he's not wrong yeah let's let's it does say that that's fine you can live your life by the bible but when the law comes into account you might want to put the bible on one side and then put things like the constitution and stuff on the other and like laws and go hey penalty over there boy i can get a lawyer and i should probably not yeah so uh he says too people go that doesn't sound like the best legal advice and he says that's bullshit no that was fine legal advice he says that uh uh he says that it wasn't on uh it doesn't it wasn't unethical for to make the guy turn himself in he said mark didn't come to me as a minister he came to me as a friend anyway i'm not an ordained minister he knew exactly what was going to happen so he was advising him on

spirituality saying he was his spiritual guide then saying but i mean he didn't come to me in an official you know pastoral it was a pastoral it's called capacity where you know it's like a like a confidential thing and i shouldn't friends i shouldn't get yeah like basically he knew he was fucked and i was just driving him like no that's not what happened we both got head injuries yeah so he gets there and uh it's may 7th 1991 he gets there and he's like i killed this chick and they're like what chick yeah fuck you talking about i killed this broad and they're like okay we didn't even know she okay like they were like whoa that's funny to them they didn't even know they had this case was bent open they didn't even know they had her body right that's the thing because she hadn't been arrested she never fingerprints on file they didn't even have a

missing persons report because they refused to file it once they once they found out once he said who it was then they fucking compared fingerprints and found out it was her but before that they just had a random missing person out there in the desert could have been anybody so it's fucking crazy, man. It's insane. So it's a guy named Detective Richard Castaneda. He's the guy who interviews Gator here. He says that he gets there.

He knew the police had issued a missing person report for Bergston, but it was just, it's not a presumed dead. No. It's an adult woman missing. Who knows? If you find her. This will shut her dad up, I feel like, is kind of what it was find her let's ask her where she been yeah and if she wants to remain missing yeah well gator uh he said i murdered this girl i murdered jessica he uh said

he would take them to the site where he murdered him because they're like did you really now because i mean people will confess to shit they didn't do people are weird you never know so if someone just comes in and confesses to something they just don't slap the cuffs on and book them they have to have proof that they did it so if you didn't kill someone you can go into a police station be like i killed the fuck out of this guy they'll be like well how can we prove that how do we know you killed him we can't just put you in jail you have rights sir we can't just lock you up well we have to be sure there's a dead body first you know we have to henry lee lucas pulled that shit and they found out he didn't do all that that's what i mean but he certainly killed a couple he killed a bunch of people he tried to make himself look quite as many right yeah so yeah they they can't

just take your word for it and let you plead guilty that's not how it works they have to find out so there's an actual it's legal stuff you know it's very complicated closure for families and things like that yeah so uh this was a big deal though he went in by the next day this was in every publication this is 91 he was still you know one of the three most famous skaters in the world and he's fucking this is crazy he's just went in and confessed to murder and rape it's fucking insanity uh everybody all of his friends were like it's you know we knew he was a jesus freak and shit like that but they said he's always a little out there but not like this how fast did brandy find out oh dude this is it's interesting here we'll talk about brandy in a minute here don't you worry oh boy they ran i

mean hard copy did reenactments they ran like a nightly update thing on it it was a big deal i mean it was like oj light especially in california you know it was a big giant deal uh a 15 year old who skated with him there uh skated with him was getting old, but he was keeping up with the moves, man. He was getting old. He was 25. He was getting old. He was 25. He was 25.

Ouch. He was getting old, but still pretty bitching. He's pushing 30, man. Yeah, that's what I mean. That Perry Gladstone guy had just signed Gator to an endorsement deal for his fish lip skateboard company, which didn't quite work out. Gator, by the way, earlier that day had shot some sort of promo video for something, too. So he was still that day of the murder. The day of the murder.

This is interesting. The board that he was going to do, the logo had kind of a takeoff on the 7-Eleven logo. 7-Elevens have come up a lot on this show. He loves them. Yeah, this... Loves to steal from them, loves to preach there. Fucking preach by them. Loves to witness there.

Witness, damn it. Now, this guy, Gladstone, said, quote, I came home the night he confessed to find 87 messages on my answering machine. They were all reporters wanting to talk to me about Gator. My wife and I were with him two or three days every week for months setting up this deal. He was such a great guy.

I just couldn't believe it. Well, you should believe it. That's the equivalent of opening your app mentions on Twitter and CNN. We'd like to get your side of the story. Totally. That's what they do. CBS. And all of the hard copies and all these sensationalist shows, they are taking the whole thing.

They're just like the rock and roll lifestyle. That shows they they are taking the whole thing they're just like you know the rock and roll lifestyle that's how they're playing like this is just the sex and the drugs and the rock and roll it's actually the exact opposite yeah sex drugs rock and roll and murder they all go together like no usually they don't kill people it's usually uh jesus witnessing and then murder that's and from our that that works a lot more frequently than this yeah so it's it's fucking crazy they did uh they they were showing anytime he was with brandy because he was in some other skate video with brandy she was always there because anytime he was doing something nobody minds having a cute girl in a video or whatever they're doing that helps if she's down there like well shit let her jump around too fuck it she's cute and you get two

for one right it's one of those that's the way they look at it so uh yeah it's they said that and everybody was saying like all the skateboarding publications were saying like oh don't don't take this out on it's not all of us don't it's that one bad apple yeah they won an editorial they said quote it's likely the skateboarding world will be placed under a microscope in the media let's just hope that we can all remain strong yeah because it's going to be you're all scumbags everybody do what tony hawk does well yeah exactly that just be tony hawk tony hawk says about this quote when i heard the gator walked into the police and confessed to murder i got sick he said this is amazing i he confessed to murder i got sick i couldn't skate for the rest of the day i want to give him in their own words music for that

just because it's so ridiculous he said i couldn't skate for the rest of the day i couldn't skate oh you poor bastard he said with his shirt all the way but yeah yeah didn't skate for the rest of the day the kids though around all the like street kids they're all in the uh you know fucking he didn't do it thing they're got it's like oj really yeah the skaters to the skaters he's like they're free oj type of thing they're going fucking he didn't do it they have uh they have jackets that say free mark anthony on the back that they're writing they have bumper stickers that read uh uh well one one is the anti mark anthony it says skateboarding is not a crime. Murder is.

Mark Anthony should die. All right. That's a different one there. It's different. Yeah, but they said that the Perry Gladstone guy said it was a terrible event for skateboarding. Skating is no more inherently violent than heavy metal is and inherently satanic. But people in the media try to make it seem as if skating is a threat to the youth of America. I think you'll find that most skaters won't even talk about Gator.

That's not true. They do. They all think he's a douche. But worseover, how about we let the facts and fucking and the trial play out? Yeah. Because you're going to see just based on facts of this has nothing to do with pools being drained. It has to do with head injuries and Jesus and a a wrought iron fence in germany and an asshole now one of the they talk to all the kids skating these are like 14 year olds one of them says he

was nice we liked him i think it's pretty dumb that what they say he did my friends just laugh and think it's dumb too if he did it what can you say we all feel sorry about it but like the newspapers have been saying it's just unbelievable that it's him they don't even believe it all the kids like this is bullshit man they all said that guy's cool with us like he talks to us and shit he told me about a secret friend this is what happens when when you tell a girl to go fuck yeah she gets a six foot one hot little blonde guy and he freaks out because that's how much it stings jesus he tells the this is a very famous quote that he tells the police when he's confessing he says why he did this because they go okay because everything he kept saying how mad he was at brandy yeah and they were like okay but you killed jessica right you keep saying brandy

brandy brandy brandy you haven't even mentioned jessica she's the one you buried in the desert want to talk about that they're attached and he said quote everything that i hated about brandy i hated about jessica she was of the same mold that brandy was made yeah so that's the way he looks at her she's the same fucking person the same person i'm sure that i'm sure jessica encouraged her to fuck that surfer guy and all that to her that's that's how he's thinking because he's certainly talked about me he's fucking nuts yeah uh they also find out the police do that about a week before the killing a week before the killing, that he is what he tells them. A week before the killing, he had gone to Brandy's house before she went to New York and said that he sat outside contemplating whether he was going to kill her or not.

But she wasn't home, so he couldn't kill her. So he might have killed Brandy a week before she was home. Don't know. So lucky for her, she wasn't home. Unlucky for Jessica here. Oh my God. So the police originally had searched his home and just did a look around

and didn't see any blood or anything because he cleaned it really well with the carpet cleaner. But now that they arrest him, now they go under the floorboards and shit and they find blood that's soaked all the way through the carpet padding into the floorboards.

They find that blood in two small spots, two small spots of blood. That was where her head was here. They find bloodstains under the carpet, like we said. They also find a carpet cleaner receipt. He said that his accountant told him to save all his receipts. Not ones that are...

You're going to write off a fucking murder cleanup? Not murder cleanup. Tell you what, if you kill anybody, just let those costs go. Pay cash. How about shred that shit? Yeah, let's go here. Jesus, you dummy. fucking murder clean up not not not murder clean up don't tell you what if you kill anybody just let those costs go pay cash how about how about shred that yeah let's go here you dummy so they're going to charge gator with murder obviously they're going to charge him with special circumstances as well because of the raping and all that sort of thing this can warrant either life imprisonment without possibility of parole or the death penalty yeah and they're gonna keep also the cleanup the cleanup proves that he knows what he did was wrong oh fuck yeah he drove to phoenix and back to

just get rid of everything and on the way in and rented a carpet cleaner i mean he knew what he did yeah he didn't lose his mind no not at all man uh yeah Yeah. He his public defender was an asshole, by the way. Silverheart, middle aged white man extraordinaire. John Jimenez. He challenged the validity of the confession, saying that Gator's minister had no right to turn him in. He's saying that guy had a special power over Gator in a God way. And he talked Gator into doing this under this spiritual advisor shit and told him he doesn't need a lawyer. Like Gator believed him because he thought he knows.

But what the fuck does that guy know better than you about the legal system? No, you don't go to your fucking minister for legal advice. That's the other thing. Why would the minister know any better about legalities than you would? He's 25. He's an adult. That's what I'm saying. So also, Jimenez, although was scummy to do Jimenez, he is appealing the rape charge. He's saying

that that rape charge should not be on here. He shouldn't be charged with rape. He's saying that the decomposed body showed no signs of forcible rape, and this is amazing. Although, basically, he's saying that even though Gator said

he raped her, you can't prove he raped her with the physical evidence, so who says he raped her, you can't prove he raped her with the physical evidence. So who says he raped her? We need to have the evidence of rape. It would be like if he came in and said, I killed someone and you can't find the body. Well, then how the hell are you going to put him away? You don't have any evidence. So who knows?

This is he's saying it's the same thing, basically. And the judge goes, what are you out of your fucking mind? Shut up. Rapes in. Dickhead. Are you kidding me stupid no uh i mean he did say everything else that happened to her and we can certainly verify that shit yeah that's what i mean everything else was pretty accurate he's gonna he's gonna throw in that he raped her and

that's the part was he bragging right i can go three hours you know like fuck is no pretty sure he was confessing and it's yeah uh so he appeals that he's saying that the decomposed body showed no signs of rape uh he never jesus christ he also told he went and basically in the press talk shit about jessica his lawyer what and besmirched her name in the fucking press this is disgusting uh he suggested that it was her own fault he told a reporter that she was a slut oh no he didn't what he told a reporter that she was a quote slut so didn't just and it claimed to have a long list of people with whom she's had sadomasochistic sex with wow which by the way completely irrelevant yeah completely irrelevant you can have sadomasochistic sex with everybody you ever fucking meet.

That gives no one the right to rape you and kill, bury you in the desert. Thank God. No matter how much you have. So fuck away, people. Good. Tie each other up. Go crazy. Make sure it's voluntary.

That's all we're asking. Including, including, there's a long list of people, including the entire University of Arizona basketball team. Oh, you don't get to say that. And a handful of pros as well. Yeah, and a handful of pros. He said that off the record to a reporter. Then he says, hey, it's like Sam Kinison said, some girls just turn Mr. Hand into Mr. Fist.

What? Oh, my God. What is he? He's implying that sometimes you get punched instead of slapped because of the way you behave. Or murdered because your friend doesn't want to go out with a guy. Right. Same thing, right? And because you have slept with a basketball player or seven.

Who gives a shit? Is he fucking disbarred yet? In the Hells Angels Hunter Thompson book, he talks about how there's a chapter on kind of like the rape scare of the 60s and how they think that Hells Angels were raping everybody and all this type of shit. And he talks about a lawyer. He talks about this theoretical lawyer that everyone's heard of that. It's an old thing that lawyers used. There used to be a thing where lawyers would say there's no such thing as rape. There was a certain amount of lawyers. And the old thing they would do, like the old proverbial thing they would do,

is give you a quill, and they'd have an ink bottle. And they'd say, put the quill in the ink bottle, and they'd move the ink bottle around so you couldn't. And they'd go, see, rape's impossible. Wow. Literally, that was the thing. Yeah, that's an old-timey lawyer thing so they're saying move your pussy keep that pussy on a swivel is what they're saying that's it now i love that hunter thompson i would stab a lawyer in the face with that hunter thompson does say which is fucking phenomenal he goes any lawyer who's heard saying that should be should be dragged out in the middle of that quill. Hunter Thompson does say, which is fucking phenomenal, he goes, any lawyer who's heard

saying that should be dragged out in the middle of the street and buggered in front of every one of their clients. And I was like, that's fucking perfect. He just stabbed him in the face. He wasn't saying that was good. He wasn't saying that doesn't exist. Yeah. He wasn't saying it was good, but I mean, this is the type of asshole we're dealing

with. Wow, man. What a scummy fucking... That's what he says off the record to people. You know, don't print that or nothing but you know uh wow uh the district attorney says by the way the voluntary confession is not a mitigating factor here just because he came forward two months later and felt guilty really doesn't mean shit in any of this stuff uh quote the fact that he turns turned himself in does not change the fact

that he tortured a girl for three hours strangled and murdered her and dumped her out in the desert the body was basically a skeleton when we found it it's absolutely outlandish what he did and above that apparently he hasn't shown any remorse no which he hasn't shown any fucking remorse he's sitting in jail like he fucking should be and he thinks that like oh i came in and said that i did it and then i'm also i like jesus i answer to him i should be fine clearly it's all good and they're like oh i came in and said that i did it and then i'm also i like jesus i answer to him i should be fine clearly it's all good and they're like oh no you're the worst pile of shit ever right and what the fuck are you gonna do and so he's sitting there now he's got to be like shit i shouldn't listen to augie oh at that point what did he uh maybe i got some bad advice from a preacher you

know maybe i'm not judas maybe augie's Judas. Maybe Augie's. Somebody's fucking Judas here. And he's sitting there. He doesn't know what to do. And there's a knock on the cell door. And he's like, okay, I'm sure it's my meal or whatever. Is this Judas? He opens it up. No, it isn't.

It's better. It's the Mexican pimp. Guns blazing. And he says. How is it you've come to arrive here? Why are you here? You come in jail. You have beautiful blonde girl. One leaves you.

Another one says, you show me around. You don't kill her. You sell her. What is wrong with you? I don't understand. You know what? Jailer, let me out. I have to get away from this man. He makes me too angry. I can't. I can't. Get away from me? Jailer, let me out. I have to get away from this man. He makes me too angry.

I can't. I can't. Get away from me. You're so close to Tijuana. I go back home now. I'm out of here. Goodbye. Poof.

And a poof of gun and poncho and tequila and bullets. He's gone. So very confused Gator is. So at the hearing, oh, yeah, the rape charge is, he literally tries to get the rape charge thrown out. And it stays in. It stays in because they try to say that, like I said, he didn't prove it because the body was decomposed. You don't have semen or a bruised vagina, therefore he didn't do it. It's ridiculous.

That's crazy. They toss out the challenge to the rape and uh so at this point the attorney after all this bluster he says you probably want to plead guilty is this i don't know what i've done my damn display i called her a whore in public called her a whore i said a bunch of people she i told everyone she fucked mike bibby at this point i don't know what else to do what else do i do so i've done my actually pre-mike baby but i've done my best to besmirch her in every possible way i mean they're still on her side i've ruined her memory i've angered her family um i essentially shit on her corpse ostracize myself in any any community that's worth its salt so maybe you should at this point probably just

do that here i have made i've somehow made myself less likable than you now by pleading he will avoid the death penalty and life without the chance of parole okay so that's what that's the the rub here he's gonna avoid both he's gonna avoid both uh yeah they're hoping that he's gonna they're gonna give him quite the sentence but not life without the possibility and not the death penalty there so uh yeah they they do all of this uh by the way the rape charge it took the judge 10 minutes to decide that it was staying in 10 minutes said you're an asshole don't think so you what i'll do you a favor and sit on this for 10 minutes max max now when he enters his plea he submits a four-page written statement which he

accepts responsibility but he also tries to express everything that happened here this is fucking ridiculous he tries to claim three things led him to this horrible situation first of all was having sex outside of marriage secondly pornography and third disobeying and ignoring the bible whoa a priest testified in his on his behalf here never before have i encountered a person so clearly open about his responsibility. You're listening to a man skating away from the idea that murder was really his fault. You know what he just did, too? Skating away. Yeah, that was clever.

He reiterated disobeying the Bible three times, because all three of the other two are, that's in the Bible, too. It's a wrap-up at the end. You should have just said, I disobeyed the Bible. That makes more sense to me than all listing everything that you did that's in the Bible. That's what I'm saying here. So that's fucking awesome. So they had to have a bunch of they had extra security on during his during his sentencing because they had received information.

And Stephen Bergston was who was attending the hearing. Jessica's father was going to try to harm Gator, you know, because he's got blood pumping through his body yeah and he's a human and he wants to kill him a daughter who was murdered viciously yeah anyone would want that so uh by the way he had been indicted with 40 others and part of that uh money laundering thing for the drug deal uh bergston we'll talk about how that settles out in a second too uh he says that he admitted although his original confession was directed by the Lord, he said in the subsequent eight months, he'd been tempted to dodge responsibility, deceiving myself as well as well as others.

But now at last, I've been led to a true, full repentance, having nothing to hide. Thank God. He says, I'm finally able to express my regret and my sorrow over the loss of Jessica. Boy, you got a lot of balls saying that. Oh, boy. He says, two months prior to this incident, I found myself in the midst of some surprisingly strange and almost uncontrollable feelings. All at once, the plague of vile visions and wicked visions and wicked imaginations and

the daily battle to suppress them was overwhelming it's no exaggeration to say i became completely enslaved to these devious mental images and inescapable thoughts essentially i became a victim first what he's called himself a victim because i turned my back on god in several ways thinking i could get through the through it on my own power. Wow. He says that without deferring the blame for my actions, he says, quote, firstly, sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, premarital sex and cohabitation, the disease of jealousy and the unhealthy obsession that so often attaches to these. That's one of the reasons. Secondly, pornography and its addictive character, ranging from risque public advertising. What? Chicks in like from risque public advertising. What? Chicks in like a bikini advertising.

A fucking cologne ad? A Bud Light ad. Fuck you. All the way to hardcore S&M, this dehumanizing of women and men, and it's dulling the senses occurring at all levels. Porn is a consuming beast. Thirdly, closing the ears and heart to God's counsel, including partial non-repentance and disobeying and ignoring the Bible.

So people, we must realize without reduction the gripping strength and deceptive subtlety of sin. What will it take for us to examine ourselves and listen? The tragedy of a young woman's death? The fall of your favorite celebrity? Okay, perhaps the imprisonment of your best friend or relative. I know the Lord forgave me 2,000 years ago on the cross at cavalry. And although I attempt to forgive myself daily, I haven't quite been able to. And I may never be able to do so.

I hate him so much. What a fucking... I can't believe he took the spotlight in the courtroom to say that shit he also says now i know that whether behind prison walls or flying free on a skateboard my life will be devoted to teaching young people and adults alike how to avoid similar disasters yeah that's what he says blame tom petty he's that son of a bitch Petty. Then he turned to the father, Stephen, who was there and offered an apology to them and said, quote, God has. There's a bailiff between them, by the way.

God has changed me. And it was no typical jailhouse conversion. I sincerely hope that they can accept my apology for my carelessness. You motherfucker. You said carelessness you motherfucker you said you miss carelessness you misspelled callousness yeah you misspelled you misspelled cuntiness yeah uh so the father lost it at that point interrupted shouting carelessness quote he's a child murderer and a child rapist he is evil incarnate cowards die a thousand times and he will die a thousand deaths. He raped her and raped her and raped her and then thought, let's kill her. We couldn't say goodbye to Jessica

because that filth left her with nothing but a piece of skin, left her for the coyotes and the goddamn birds to eat her. I told you, and you remember this, Rogowski, what would happen if anyone hurt my daughter? He says he's undergone a religious conversion. Judge, you must have heard the same story 100 times. If he underwent a religious conversion, it was to evil degradation, filth, and Satanism. You, sir, may fuck off. I give that one to the dad. He gets the fuck off on that one. He is sentenced to consecutive, not concurrent, consecutive, so they are all together, laid out in a row.

not concurrent consecutive so they are all together uh laid out in a row consecutive terms of uh well let's go six years for forcible forcible rape and 25 years to life for first degree murder okay he his first possible parole eligibility was 2010 yeah so that would be 19 years and uh yeah that's what they give him there by the way steven bergson's money laundering charges were dismissed oh also so he got that good for you sir that's good here now when gator goes to prison he's diagnosed with bipolar disorder uh obviously kind of could have just diagnosed that one on our own here his lawyer here jimenez said that gator took some shit when he was first put in the county jail he said but one night after he was incarcerated a little while, inmates watched the story on hard copy of his murder. And he said, after that, I guess they thought he was a heavy dude because of the rest of

the population kept their distance ever since. Did you see what he did to that chick? They thought he was a fucking creep. That man is a murdering psychopath. They were probably like, we don't even want to rape him. He's so fucking disgusting. That's how bad it was. He raped a dying woman for three hours.

Think about what he'd do to us. Yeah, that's what I mean. So he's trying to get into the born-again Christian shit. He did get kicked out of the born-again group. He got kicked out. They don't like murderers? The other inmates said

that they didn't trust him and they thought him to be a phony and that for him to tell a phony and that uh for him to tell kids his story smacked of artificiality and they said they would have none of it yeah not having him using this shit for his own glorification hypocritical it is i mean you don't want that kind of shit he's done enough damage you don't need him fucking with kids i mean who's he fucked with so far bergston brandy tommy's Rune Tom, even Teaspa Smirch, Tom Petty. I feel bad for all these people, but not nearly

as bad as I feel for Mark Rogowski, president at Mertek Inc. in Ontario. Mark Rogowski, jet engine mechanic at the U.S. Air Force. I didn't know a guy who was a jet engine mechanic. They're always cool dudes. Commerce City, Colorado. Mark Rogowski, registered nurse in Hicksville,

New York. Also, Mark Anthony, because he changed his name. Mark Anthony, the psychic lawyer. Are you kidding me? No. Celebrity medium appears worldwide on TV and radio. Where the hell was he? No shit.

Could have used you. He went to Arthur Finley Spiritualist College, literally. Fuck that. I swear to God. That's a school? They take people's money. Oh, Jesus. And finally, for the first time,

I found a newspaper article about a mistaken identity. What? There's a guy named Mark Anthony who is an Escondido real estate agent. Yeah. And he says, this is in the newspaper in San Diego, he said that he is concerned because he started getting calls after gator got arrested he started getting calls from people saying like what the fuck man buying houses from you literally quote

a couple of people called who didn't know me very well to make sure it wasn't me this guy literally took this shit he's going no it's not me how many deals did he lose he says they're the same age too oh no he says i saw the picture in the paper and he slightly resembles me that didn't help he goes and they also also both went to orange glenn high school christ same age and now because the guy changed his name to mark this guy's name was always mark anthony members of the calvary church only difference is this this mark anthony's with a c mark with a c but nobody notices that so they and graduated from Valley High. It's the same thing.

They both went to the same places. Quote, I had heard of him in the past. I really do see the humor in the situation, but it could be a problem. I don't want it to get out of hand, he says. Well, no shit. I also hate him. The ultimate mistaken identity. So we have a couple of things from Gator here that he says.

This is just bullshit here that later on in his written statements. Quote, if you believe that it was a revenge killing and it was prompted by Brandy, I would say yes. He says, never before have I encountered a person so clearly open about. That's the priest said that about him. He's saying that the priest said that about him. He said, I did lay upon her with a steering lock at one point. Lay upon her with a steering lock. one point lay upon her with a steering lock but that was part of but that was part of the

SNM now he's trying to say now in prison mutual sex they had weird yeah he's trying to say that hitting her with a fucking club was part of SNM I'm not I don't do too much weird shit but I haven't heard knock all my teeth out as SNM

open a fucking wound on my head that seeps to the floorboard. Seems a little excessive. It's very rare that you go to work the next day and people go, is that your brain? I see. Holy shit. I guess you don't go hard and fuck like I fuck. That's what I'm saying. Fucking pussy.

See, now he wants parole. So he says the fact is that it wasn't rape it was more like in an involuntary manslaughter he says if it weren't for my submission to her wiles and the temptation of having such sex with her wow he just said she seduced what a motherfucker holy shit then he stopped in the interview and he said quote quote, I don't want to defame Jessica at all. You just did. It's too late, you dickhead. I'm very, very sorry about what happened to her.

Now he knows the words. He says, oh, wait, I can't say that. I can't say what I really feel. I have to say, I don't want to blah, blah, blah. I'm very sorry. I just want to make it known that I was led into a sexual situation that I didn't want to have anything to do with. You know what you can say?

I don't really feel like fucking. This feels borderline gross. Anything. Anything. You can say anything. No. Get out of it. I mean, it works.

It should be the least hot words to hear in a bedroom. This is insane. Then he says, quote, I wouldn't have submitted it as submitted if I didn't have some weaknesses, some background desire. You can go down the street to the Coronet bookstore in Oceanside and buy a vast array of S&M bondage magazines, pictorials, descriptive pictorials, and paperbacks that are step-by-step about how to lynch somebody sexually. It's pretty sick.

I got a lot of ideas. You know what else is in those books is fucking have a safe word. Have a safe word. And if you don't like it, say that. That's the other thing. That's all you got to do. And those people. Break my teeth out. Fucking cauliflower. Hey, whoa. Ca people break my teeth out fucking cauliflower cauliflower i'm not doing it no that's a bad safe word because

cauliflowers are pretty hot you know and it takes a long time to say that's a lot yeah you should have a shorter one so yeah yeah yeah like i said what if you're into some cauliflower play that night then what happens what if you're fucking a professional wrestler what if you dig so just telling me where to fuck him that this gets worse by the way oh boy i got a lot of bad ideas that night i didn't realize what kind of a purring feline she was you cocksucker i didn't know it was pot this is what the shit that i didn't put in first time that i felt like we didn't fucking nail him to the wall hard enough because he fucking deserves it. And now we'll get to he's going to get out soon.

So we got to talk about this shit. He says, quote, It's really hard for me to say these things about Jessica. Doesn't seem too difficult. You should stop saying them. We lost her and I don't feel good about that. You're not part of we. No. That's the thing.

You did it. You did it. Her family lost her. You killed her. That's a smart. You took her did it her family lost her you killed her that's you took her yeah lost her there you go i just want to make it known that i was led into a sexual situation that i didn't want to have anything to do with i was scared i'd be discovered with this wayward woman oh my god so he's saying that was about his reputation there were a lot of kids in my neighborhood my protégés in skateboarding who would have bible studies with me. I was being an example to these impressionable kids.

For them to see me with this woman and that all of that had been going on, the wine bottles, the cigarettes upstairs, it would have been devastating. Yeah, a bunch of beach kids would really just disown you. They'd be like, oh, finally, you're cool. That's what we were hoping for. Wine, you pussy. We all smoke weed and we leave your Bible study. Wine and cigarettes?

Have this whiskey and fucking weed. Yeah, you punk. open for wine you pussy we all smoke weed and we leave your bible study wine and cigarettes have this whiskey and fucking weed yeah you punk so he said it would have been devastated in my attempt to quiet her in her intoxicated and belligerent state i had put my hand over her mouth to quiet her for a second so i could hear the voices and footsteps coming up my walkway because you know they can't hear i'm in my own home as an adult with a woman. They're all going to come. Fucking who cares? Where's this lawyer to pop in the room

and go, dude, shut the fuck up. Then he says, quote, she must have suffocated or had a seizure or stroke or something. Next thing I know,

I look down and she's not breathing and not moving. That's what this motherfucker says. And missing teeth. And missing teeth and bleeding from the head. You fucking jerk.

In 2002, when the Stoked, the Rise and Fall of Gator came out this motherfucker says missing teeth and missing teeth and bleeding from the head jerk uh in 2002 there's the when the stoked the rise and fall of gator came out and uh and the woman who made it helen stickler said she made it because she heard it was so much rumor flying around she said quote i heard that he killed his girlfriend then i heard he'd killed his girlfriend's sister then i heard that i that he was on cocaine and chopped up a girl she said by the time i started looking into the story everyone had been speculating and gossiping about it for years but there was no real answers which was true i was a big skate i had no idea about i i remember this happening when i was a kid because i was skating when this happens it was like fucking gator what the fuck yeah but like and

then i forgot all about it and then when the documentary came out i was like holy shit and then i heard the details of it i just just knew he killed somebody. James, read those rumors again. Those rumors aren't even near as bad as the fucking truth. That's the thing. Chopping up his girlfriend is not near as bad as bludgeoning his ex-girlfriend's best friend. Ridiculous. That's way worse. No, it's fucking insane.

Never mind way worse. Now, in 2010, he has a parole suitability hearing, and he voluntarily waived the right for the hearing for one year. In 2007, he has a parole suitability hearing, and the district attorney said that he remained an unreasonable risk to society, should remain imprisoned, and all that. All the members of the Bergston family attended the hearings and said, please keep him incarcerated. He's denied parole for seven years after that. So November of 2014, there's an inmate petition that he has to advance his deal, and that is approved. And on he but then 2015, he voluntarily waives his right to a hearing for a year. 2016, he has a parole suitability hearing and he's denied parole for

seven years but he does another petition to get you know another hearing and uh so that's 2016 2019 recently yes last week and it was fucked up because we were going to do this story anyway and then this shit came out and i was like well jesus now we have to do it. They found that he's now 53 years old. The board found him suitable for release here. He was still 53. Suitable to murder. Still. Oh, he could be killing.

Yep. It's the only the first step. It's not saying he's going to be released. That's just to see if he can go to the parole board. The state's parole board now has 120 days to review the case. If it moves forward, then the governor of California gets another 30 days for review. And if he wants to, he can just pull it off the table and say, fuck this guy. And if that happens, he doesn't have another set thing hearing.

He doesn't have a hearing set until 2023. So minimum four months and he could be out. He could be out in as little as that. Then it would go to the board and then there would be the release process. But it could be within a year. So that happens here. The district attorney says that prosecuted him, we respect the board

and the difficult decisions they have to make, but in this case we are very disappointed with the result and still feel he represents a significant threat to public safety, particularly women. He says that, yeah, he said, Most people don't have it within themselves to beat a young lady with a metal rod, handcuff her, cut off her clothes, rape her repeatedly, and murder her through suffocation. Most people don't have it within themselves to do that.

But he did, and anyone who can commit a crime like that, which is so horrific and monstrous in character, demands the highest level of scrutiny. Also, groomed a child. That's the other thing. Right. 15 year old. That's the part that he's not being punished for because whatever.

The dad brought it up. But he certainly did it. Yeah. I like the dad brought it up now. Now, his attorney, through the parole suitability hearings here, he says that that the board believes that Rogowski is fully accepts full responsibility, which he doesn't, I don't think. The lawyer said, quote, he has insight into the causative factors, and he has a sincere and heartfelt remorse for what he did. And he has changed.

So, okay. They also talk a lot about his head injury in Germany, that that changed him a lot. That's part of his strategy in parole, is that. He said that his client, Rogowski, is somewhat happy about the initial finding that he's suitable. He said, quote, he wishes there was something he could do to ease the pain of the family. He knows that there isn't anything he can do right now or ever. He could die. That'll probably help.

At the time now, the prosecutor also said, they said, why'd you agree to this deal? They asked the prosecutor, knowing this could happen someday. And he said, quote quote i really didn't think he'd ever get out of prison that's why he made the deal he thought they'd never parole him because what a piece of shit he is uh so gator sitting in his cell he says quote i had it all i had different cars a big house on an estate even girls i had the prettiest most popular most voluptuous most unscrupulous girls i say that i had a girl i once considered girls a possession that's crazy that's disgusting that's what he says and fucking that's what he's saying in prison now jessica bergston he's still sitting there by the way jessica is buried in the uh in clark county mississippi in a family with her family here

brandy currently lives this was from a few years ago so I don't know about this but at the it was like 2005 when this article came out she was living in the Upper East Side of New York City working as a flower arranger okay interesting Brandy but I found something way more interesting about Brandy uh Brandy brandy was one of heidi fleiss's girls get the fuck out of here brandy was arrested in a sweep and she's one of heidi fleiss's girls in in la in la in san diego she's one of the ones from san diego if you don't know heidi fleiss's if you're too young heidi fleiss is known as the hollywood madam heidi fleiss is a young lady who decided why don't i why men are always making money off of women doing being prostitutes why don't i start

a high class madam service right where i will hook up and we're talking celebrities heads of state dignitaries royalty right these were high level very expensive people very discreet thing and then it got raided and all the guys went holy shit yeah that's the worst little black book in the fucking world her records oh god scared the shit waves of panic through the power centers of america after this year and then she was dating uh that piece of shit who i've been in a twitter argument with from blackhawk down and uh he's a fucking big star in hollywood whatever they were married i think he's a cokehead and a piece of shit whatever i don't know it's a hollywood tom sizemore yes yes that guy argued with me on twitter and it was my favorite day because that guy fucking stooped to an open micers level at

that time yeah four years ago yeah well that and also well i mean he stooped away worse than that he's a piece of shit so quickly here uh she says and during this interview in 1993 after she was arrested to somebody she says quote people always expect some girl with like red lipstick bleach blonde hair and sequin dress and spiked pumps but it's a misconception i don't even own a pair of spiked pumps i got i got dark hair and i wear slinky black outfits everywhere I go. They said this. She's got busted on a vice sting on the afternoon of June 9th, 93, I think it was, or 92. She and four other women, or three other women, showed up at the Beverly Hilton to do a job here

to provide four Japanese businessmen with $6,000 worth of sex. Wow. How much sex is six grand? In 92? That's a lot of sex. Oh my God, that's like two weeks. She said she didn't even get her clothes off yet, and the police came in.

She was never charged, but now they flipped her, and so she's going to testify against Heidi Fleiss. Brandy is. Brandy is. So that's what ended up happening. She was going to testify. It's fucking crazy.

How did she get into this? Yeah. Well, she had went to new york remember when she ran away to new york well she was there this is she's this because she ran away from gator she said i was living in new york working for a florist she's a flower that's how i knew it was her yeah flowers new york same person same age everything it lined up with the flowers it was too much uh if it is not her biggest coincidence in the fucking world everything too they describe her five eight blonde everything from from san diego

lived in san diego before that then went to new york or that poor mark anthony mark anthony realtor and this is the same fucking situation it could be if it is i apologize brandy mclean but it's probably the same it's probably the same person i was living in new york working for a florist two years ago and there was this girl I ran with in Central Park. She always seemed to have money and had beautiful furniture. And I thought, how does she do it? I mean, she was in nursing school.

Well, one day she told me, and I was like, I would have never guessed. This friend gave her Heidi Fleiss's number, and apparently she called and she said Heidi Fleiss told her that she had very rich clients and that it was on a good level you wouldn't encounter any weirdos these are screened very wealthy people fucked a professional skateboarder for a long time and she said have you seen the free fallen video because i'm in it that's easy to do yeah she said it was like going on a weekend date except it was very lucrative because she said you know she she went out with middle-aged men yeah anyway she said so she didn't really give a shit uh she said she uh she rarely got sent to the biggest spenders which are middle eastern dignitaries because she

was deemed too skinny uh so she was on the next tier because the middle they wanted a little fat ass well yeah they like a little something on there so uh she's model she am i middle eastern she said she said she was too short to model and not trained to act and didn't know what to do at that point. She just knew men thought that she was attractive. She said there were kids of celebrities, celebrity kids, trust fund babies, one European billionaire, all sorts of business types. She said, usually I would meet them at their house. That is the house their wives weren't at. Then we'd go to dinner. Nikki Blair's or Spago or the bistro that's there's some 90s shit there

then maybe to a club and then back to the house and then well whatever have sex do uh do what you want uh do what they want and uh yeah she says uh would she get out of it she said quote uh money you tell me one job where you can make fifteen hundred dollars an hour one job a doctor doesn't make that much a lawyer twice a month and there you go your bills are paid besides anyone can anyone can go get a job at like the limited but how many girls could keep a billionaire interested i did oh jesus she's bragging about it can't get enough no jesus christ well there's reissue boards all over the place if you want to get a Gator board, but fuck that guy.

The originals are like 200 bucks for an old school original one. Those will break anyway. If you want to get a hold of him, you can do that. You can write him. I'm going to tell him he's a piece of shit. CDCR number, number sign, like hashtag. Pound. There you go.

H27508. Pound. Pound. There you go. H27508. Mark Anthony Rogowski, California Men's Colony, P.O. Box 1801, San Luis Obispo, California, 93409-8101. And also, you can call him.

There's a thing. If you're going to be speaking with him, you'll need to open a global Tellink account. Oh, don't do that. Those calls are either five dollars and 45 cents or one dollar and 85 cents he's not worth it and if you're being charged a higher rate you might want to look into the inmate discount phone service plan or just write him and tell him he's a dildo yeah fuck mark ragowski unreal that's crime and sports wow and that's the way it should have been done fucking three years ago but we couldn't do it we just didn't have the wherewithal i feel so gross i feel way gross that's how we't do it. We just didn't have the wherewithal at that time. I feel so gross. I feel way gross.

That's how we should feel after that episode. I didn't feel as gross as I needed to feel after the first episode. I think we talked more about Tom Petty than we did about him.

That's what I mean. We kind of breezed through it. It was a gross murder and we were, you know, we didn't know. So there you go. Now we got his due.

Fuck you, Mark Rogowski. That's crazy shit. If you like that story, tell us about it. Get her. Tell the world about it. Get on Apple Podcasts. That purple icon. That's crazy shit. If you like that story, tell us about it. Get her. Tell the world about it. Get on Apple Podcasts. That purple icon.

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This week's executive producers are Jordan Bennett again thank you Jordan and she saved a man's life at her gym and then she got an award for it and she's fucking so depressed about getting an award you're awesome she's very much like me where she doesn't want attention but she got it nonetheless

so good for you Jordan Jenny Neighbors, Lorenda Lieber Tanya Volanek, who, by the way, every week gives... You're so sweet to us. Thank you so much. It's just...

It's flattering. Thank you. Thank you. Naima Shea donated both ways through PayPal and then signed up on Patreon. Thank you so much. And she's been around before

and then she came back, which is fantastic to see. Thank you, Naima. Murphy Productions. I don't know what that is. If you need productions of some sort, I'm sure Murphy can handle it. They're going to produce the shit out of you. Yeah.

Fuck yeah. Jeremy Brown, Ashley Kooland, and Nate Brown. I don't know if Nate and Jeremy are related. Other producers this week are Ian Phillips, Padrage Murphy, another Murphy. Marion? Yeah. Marion Mosa or Moja? What did I do?. Marion. Marion Mosa or Moja. What did I do?

I think it's Mosa or Mora. Fuck. One of those. Thank you. Thank you, Marion. Sabrina Crawford. Josephina Welsh. Chrissy.

Chrissy McDonald. ML. I don't know what that is, but I do know her first name is Marin. Thank you. Thank you. Pandora's Jar. Not box. Jason Covert.

Andrea Watson. Chris Dunbar. Yeah. That's a Dunbar. I think. Yeah, that's Dunbar. first name is marin thank you thank you pandora's jar not box jason covert uh andrea watson uh chris dunbar yeah that's a is it dunbar i think yeah that's dunbar anthony troffer or troffer uh andrea watson i said that teddy ginger gingerish or ginger rich i'm not sure which i don't know uh alicia stewart curtain curtain curtain is that curtain corton singleton i think it's corton Curtin? Curtin. Is that Curtin? Cortin. Singleton? I think it's Cortin. It might not be. Snoopy Noodle? I don't know which that is.

I think that's a first name or a last. It's both. It's literally each. Julia Hooks. Emily McGinn. Jason Freeman's girlfriend's birthday is this week, and he did not give her name, which is hysterical. Give my girlfriend a shout out. Well, it'd be helpful if you give her name, which is hysterical. Give my girlfriend a shout out. Sure.

Well, it'd be helpful if you knew her name. I hope Jason Freeman's girlfriend knows who she is. Kaylee Graff, Ricky Lawrence, Katie Turner, Snoop Shmoopy McBoop, Alan Gonzalez, Sarah Wee, Ethan Swan, Jingle Bella All The Way. Festive. Yeah yeah it is ashley hamilton jay mcfarland uh jesse myers zach grief our grife uh gwen gwen van neen no van veen that's a tongue twister casey crow uh quincy bones which i hope is their real name uh emily stafford andrea boyle ben stanton santa steven stant santa's uh santa stefan jennifer store storzik uh adam apple yeah you there you go bud yeah it's usually on the first one but i got you back uh hunter turner cynthia to attack attack attack a joust

tack a jawaski i don't know. Sue Watkins. Kyle Galkin. Brent Keister. I hope not. That's brutal. Yeah. But it's a name. It's something.

Dana Downing. Johanna, with no last name. Laura Mains. Ashley Kuhland. I said that. She's doing both. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you.

Yeah, she is. That's right. Jared Price. Tanner Ford. Chance Hogan. Nick Reynolds. Adam Carpenter, Bronson White. Oh, Bronson White, Rhino Hicks. That's what that is. Tyler Russell, Alex Casella, Jesse Bowman, Chris Holtz.

I had to look at the email for that. Brandi Huston or Houston, Jake Hulk, Krista and Kyle Lamke, E-Bitch, Amy Starr, Jen Crenshaw, Stacy Watson, Jeremy Brown, Elizabeth Rivera, Keith Westfall, Tanya Newman, Jeff DeLuca, Lainey Potts, Pat Naud. that pat now skip no pat nod do you have the one where somebody said they donated and said i don't know what this is but it's what my daughter wanted for christmas so here's money thank you i saw that and i have a name okay but i didn't give uh her name the daughter still has the best message ever so far marshall tommy emily vetney uh jamie trena trenda uh jimmy mc jimmy chambers uh claire Emily Vetney, Jamie Trenda, Jimmy Chambers, Claire Olena. I think that's right. Olena? Olena.

Could be an Irish one. Tara, Reagan Schalke, Susanna Platt, Sheila, Shelia, Hines, Gretchen Harrison, Spencer Arnold, Nathan Deal, Carl Bittner, Karen Edgen, Tim Blankenship, Brad Bock Aeronautics, Belinda Reed. She's the one that came all the way from Australia and then donated again this week. That was cool as shit. Thank you. Gary Howard, Tanner Ray, Amanda Winter, Mandy Peterson, Ronnie Kumar, Sarah Firestone. I hope that's of the tire fortune. Sarah Williams, Thomas Craddock, Kayleen Kirsch, Dana Liebert or Libert, Chrissy Chisholm, Lauren Demerath again. Thank you so much for coming out in Chicago, Lauren.

Hey, thanks, Lauren. Good to see you, Lauren. You're fantastic. Danielle Wood, Kimberly Westenberg. Yeah. Fuck, Neerady, Chris Lago. Nope, probably not. Luis Rayfield on a moscato galley uh richard lawrence

brooke lopeman peggy vigu uh david barnhart uh emma clark chris edwards jude kendall fuck head of sorenson tony francesco not francisco nathan little alicia uh sim. Alicia Simunek. Kim Novak. Robin Anderson. Tracy Mitchell. George Giasopoulos. Daniel Mater. Thomas Smith.

Ryan Sim. Robin Throckmorton. Taylor Seaman. Jesse Hartman. Again. Sharon Harvey. Andrea Samples. Steven Rude.

The guy is a fucking mensch. Thank you, Steven. Liz Vasquez. Again. And thanks for sending us a huge box of nuts. Oh, that's awesome. Thanks, Liz. fucking man. Thank you, Stephen. Liz Vasquez again, and thanks for sending us a huge box of nuts. That's awesome. Thanks, Liz. So nice. Keith Nevereaux, Jackie Sukup, Stephanie Igoa,

Ashley Veo, Brendan Ables, Joseph Blenis, rhymes with penis, Peyton Meadows, and real quickly through the, people send me these little messages, and I like to just get them all in. Delivery truck drivers, UPS letter carriers,

truck drivers and the real Santas. Thank you guys so much for what you guys do this week. Joe Eilerman is nine years cancer free. Congratulations. Keep it going. Lucas Carleone had a baby and so did his significant other I imagine. Not just him. Willow Earp is the baby. And then Tanya and

Marvin Kraft. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. And all of our Patreon supporters. You guys are heroes. Thank you everybody so much. Honestly man we're blown away by it. What if people are blown away by you Jimmy? How could they tell you about it? You can find me at Lenny Dykstra. I'm just kidding. Wisman.

W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks on Twitter Instagram Snapchat and I really love having Lenny Dykstra be a friend of ours we fucking love Lenny

makes me smile every day he's awesome especially his new passion of ripping Orenthal he's going after OJ Simpson

I love it and just calling him Orenthal all day I never killed anybody I didn't either fuck it that's what he's doing you know what

Lenny you are head and shoulders above fucking OJ. You suck all the shit you want to OJ. Where can they find you? You can find me at Jimmy P is funny

or just copy and paste my name from the show description. Make it easy on yourself. Either way, find us and hang out with us and do all that stuff. And wild episode.

Thank you guys. By the way, show note, no show next week. Christmas week. It would come out on Christmas Eve. That's stupid. So we're not going to do that. No show next week., show note, no show next week. Christmas week, it'll come out on Christmas Eve. That's stupid. So we're not going to do that. No show next week. There is a small town murder next week.

That'll come out after Christmas. So you guys might need that to cheer you back up after it. You don't need us on Christmas Eve with this. We will be back the next week and then every week after that, though. So that said, everybody, live from the Crime and Sports Studios, we will see you next week. Bye!

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Taylor Swift is soaring high, her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans.

She's broken billboard records and made Grammys history, not to mention becoming a billionaire in the process. But along the way, Taylor has had to wage war, first by taking on a very powerful, very famous manager, Scooter Braun, and then by going up against the biggest live events company, Ticketmaster. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondery's show, Business Wars. We go deep into some of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time. And in our latest season, Taylor Swift will shake up not only the music business, but Hollywood and the NFL. Follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts.

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