Crime in Sports - #209 - Where Did That Rat Come From? - The Captiveness of Paul Hayward

Episode Date: May 19, 2020

This week, we check out a man who played a sport we know nothing about, rugby. That said, we skip most of the sports, and dive directly into crime. He tried to make a little extra money, doing some dirty things, and got caught. In Thailand. With a LOT of heroin. This leads to a long stint in a nightmarish Thai prison, which causes him even bigger troubles. Listen to it all unravel! Play two professional sports, hang out with your crime boss brother-in-law, and wind up doing extra hard time in a Thai prison with Paul Hayward!! Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!! Contact us on... twitter.com/[e-mail]/Crimeinsportsinstagram.com/smalltownmurder  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Discover all the best in audiobooks, podcasts, and originals featuring authentic Canadian voices and celebrity talent, like Brendan Fraser and Luke Kirby's latest sci-fi adventure, The Downloaded. A first listen is waiting for you when you start your free trial at audible.ca. on the Mr. Ballin Podcast, now available wherever you get your podcasts, you'll hear strange, dark, and mysterious stories about inexplicable encounters, shocking disappearances, true crime cases, and everything in between. So go listen to Mr. Ballin Podcast, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us. Holy shit, are we excited for this week. We have a wild episode. Hope you enjoyed Scotty Pippin last week. Wonderful.

So many people were just like, what? When we posted it, people were like, what's Scotty Pippin's? What happened there? Oh my God. And then they listened and they're like, oh Jesus, Jesus. Wow. He really likes court,

that guy, doesn't he? So he likes to be on the court, in the court. He's very much comfortable in court. This week we have a completely different kind of story for you. It is absolutely batshit insane. Very, very little sports because it's a sport we know nothing about. Zero.

So rather than make fools of ourselves we've done that before with this sport so we're not going to try again we're just going to kind of breeze past it and get right into the insane crimes that happen here because it's a wild wild episode water polo a harrowing tale we'll say it's not water polo it's rugby this week excellent so it's a brain damage sport which is always fun but quickly before we get into that just want to thank everybody number one for your reviews this week thank you so much they really do mean a lot to the show they mean a lot on the business end they help drive you up the charts on apple podcast so if you haven't done it yet apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars doesn't matter what you say it really does say i'm trapped in a Thai prison and this is what i

need to do to get out that'll work and that'll make sense later in the episode. Okay. So, yeah, do that, please. Also, head over to Shut Up and Give Me Murder for everything. Tons of new stuff up. All sorts of merch up there. Get everything crime and sports and small-town murder related. And if you've been waiting to listen to small-town murder to check it out, it's a golden time right now. We highly recommend this is a good time to do it.

There's just been a run of insanity the last actually pretty much all of 2020. It's been great. So check this all out. It's been crazy. Look over there also on Fridays. Check out PSA hate this movie where I make fun of romantic comedies with my wife and also different ones because we did the room last week, right? And

it was awesome. It was amazing dream come true making Sarah watch the room was great. She didn't want to do it, and I forced her to. It's like, this is what I go through every week. Miss Congeniality, this is better. This is much better. So anyway, listen to that, too. Here's what I deem horseshit.

This is horseshit here. So also, get your tickets to live shows if they might be happening any time. Who knows? Who knows? It's so exhausting. If you do have tickets they and they get and the shows do get canceled they get it'll get moved and you'll get transferred to whatever show it is so you'll have tickets that'll just running tickets to the shows forever the frustration you

feel when you find out that it's been postponed our agent who books these the poor bastard he's like oh god i have to email them again and ask them for more dates no and then get with the venues again it's one tour i didn't even make money on the last one he has to book the same tour four times that's dude is earning his those guys are joe and joe are earning their money sorry guys that's great so if you want to be speaking of earning money if you want to be a producer yeah and help us earn money that we're not getting on the road right and you get plenty of bonus content all sorts of stuff last week we did uh stories about my friend rod beck so that

was a lot of fun people were asking for that that was awesome last week and then also small town murder there's tons of bonus stuff yeah it's usually not a murder you know small town murder story it's usually some crazy crime related just to follow up because uh uh i got maybe 10 no less than 15 messages james how did rod beck die yeah oh we didn't say that oh we didn't say that well yeah it was a fun i was having a fun thing yeah he had a heart attack so there you go there you go so that's you could probably google search that i think probably pretty easier than to email us but that's fine and now we're fun ruined with he had a heart attack yeah i just want let's have a good time we don't want to ruin it thanks a friend of mine you know so anyway unbelievable you want to

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It's unbelievably appreciated. Let's get into this. Let's do this. We're going all the way to Australia this week. Sorry Aussies. It's been a while since we've been over there. We're not allowed right now. No, they're not going to let us in for a long time. So we're going to go to Australia.

We're going to find a nice Aussie rugby player. I had a bit of a tough run of it here. Sounds like all of them. Yeah, this guy, I would say this guy, the calamities that happened to this guy, the dominoes that fall are really tragic here like this is one of our most tragic stories that's also gross and hilarious at the same time so you're gonna buckle up everybody here we do let's do it with paul hayward paul cecil hayward which sounds very british empire does anytime you put the word cecil in anything cecil is uh the name of a dead lion or a hotel where horrible things happen.

Or an Englishman or a fat black home run hitter. And that one too. He pronounces it so different. I don't ever think of him when I think of the name Cecil. Cecil and Cecil. Those are two different, but it's the same name. Southern black Cecil. That's what it is.

Cecil and Cecil. Different names, but they're the same southern black cecil yeah that's what it is cecil and cecil different names but they're the same name right cecil fielder is actually a skinny british man yeah cecil so if you don't if you don't know cecil fielder is look him up and you'll go holy shit that's not a skinny british man it's not a man in tweed no he's got like furniture orbiting him he's a giant fat bastard good hitter though man Could he crush some homers? So Paul Hayward, born January 11th, 1954 down in Sydney. So he is an Aussie boy through and through. He, I don't even, his childhood isn't really out there much.

He had such a crazy adult life that people wouldn't even, they were like, it doesn't matter where he came from because this shit is insane what's going on now so who cares seemed to grow up fine yeah he grew up into an adult didn't didn't you know no sids didn't take him or anything so we know that much about him and uh he grows up he's a good athlete all around he's a rugby player he's a boxer in his younger years he concentrates on boxing more than anything he's really into boxing serve you well in that sport he's a tough son of a bitch if you're a rugby player and a boxer you're probably not a guy you want to fight in a bar

i would say he's gonna fuck you up i would assume but the saving grace for the rest of everyone is he's only five six oh so he's a little shit yeah as well but that full-grown man full-grown man five six but i love it when i get to make fun isn't that great you're like you little motherfucker how dare you not grow an extra inch you little match me jimmy gets to pick on someone for being small and i get to call him a little bitch. Listen here, mister. Need that off the top shelf? Allow me. There you go, pal.

Want a lollipop, little buddy? There you go. I'll get that for you. Don't strain yourself. We wear the same size shoe, I promise. Yeah, shit. You could switch clothes easily. Yeah, with such ease. Absolutely.

If he used a washer next to mine in a laundromat we could easily be my accent i don't know whose is whose i'm sorry yeah except he probably dresses different probably you know his name cecil's dressed different than jimmy's with an ie it's just one of those things you don't get any different culturally than cecil yeah and jimmy yeah you don't think he owns a rat t-shirt probably not i don't think he does skid row skid row t-shirt perfect youth gone wild shirt that's nice yeah i think that's honest to goodness what i'm wearing that's what i meant i read it off the fucking we are the youth gone wild unbelievable indeed fuckers so he's a he's a boxer and apparently the there's a boxer, and apparently there's different stories fly around about his boxing prowess.

Different articles will say he had eight professional fights. Some people say he had six professional fights. I found two of record. There could have been more that were under the radar, but two that made it to boxer rec, which is like those are official fights pretty much, the way I look at it, anyway. I mean, I'm sure there's, I don't know. Maybe it was six or two that felt so long they could have been six. Maybe.

Little guys, listen. We throw punches, and they don't do much damage, but it lasts a while. Well, he's a lightweight, so lightweights can knock each other out. He's not like a super flyweight. He doesn't weigh like 110 pounds. He's going like 14 know 145 150 that's a you knock somebody out i don't believe you so it's all those guys are so and he's uh he's a rugby guy too so he's like a thick-legged you know sturdy kind of cat here uh apparently they say that

he when he was an amateur in the late 60s that he was up for uh olympic contention here when he's like 17 years old for boxing for boxing awesome which but then later on they say he was up for the 76 team for boxing but he already had pro fights so they wouldn't let him do it which i don't even know why he would be up for it if he already had pro fights it makes no sense he didn't have a pro in the olympics no back then you couldn't up until until, what was it? A lot of countries did that. Up until the Dream Team in 92 was the first time we had pros in the Olympics. Before that, it was amateur only.

That seems unfair. If you had played one game, it was a big controversy with Jim Thorpe back in the day, in the 20s, where he had played in a semi-pro game of some kind, and so then he was in the Olympics, so they wanted to take medals from him and shit. That's fucked up. Yeah, that's how it used to be, though. We used to get the shit kicked out of us by other teams, by other countries' pros.

Yeah, pros. And we were sending out our college kids. Sending out the B-squad? Yeah. Not even. And then we were like, you know what? Hold on a sec. Jordan, Barkley, Burr, let's fuck. fuck we're gonna keep this on the up and up let's make up for the last hundred

years guys go ahead we're gonna keep up we're gonna show you guys that we know how to do this too exactly that's not fair though because you can't have like professional swimmers against our collegiate athletes that's how you speak professionals in it because other countries wouldn't be so stringent about that sort of shit but apparently australia was and then michael phelps shows you how to swim exactly no shit so here's one article where it says he turned pro and was unbeaten in eight fights okay but then i found record of him this is when he's 17 years old pro fighting so that's crazy almost 18 but still october 28th 1971 and it sounds like him the fight takes place at the south sydney rugby league club so i mean it may would make sense that's where he'd be fighting he's from sydney plays rugby it all makes sense here he fights a

guy named steve campbell whose professional record turns out to be 10 49 and 9 not great no uh this goes all four rounds but he but uh paul wins the decision good he's better so shit everybody else beat the shit out of that guy almost 50 guys so then 35 kangaroos yeah you know that's the other thing in australia we don't know what these fights consist of it's true he could have had he could have had to fight two koalas simultaneously which i can't fault him for that personal fight could have had to fight two koalas simultaneously, which I can't fault him for that. It's a professional fight. If you go 500 with two koalas simultaneously in your whole career, that's a pretty good record, I think.

It's pretty decent. Yeah, and I don't even know what a good record against kangaroos would be. Fuck, if you win one- They're pretty tough. It's pretty impressive. I mean, 1049 and nine's a good kangaroo fighter, but fighting humans, it's not that good. That's the problem. It's a much better wildlife number than it is a human in a ring under supervision number.

That guy protecting his dog punching up a kangaroo last year. That was awesome, yeah. Those things can take a fucking punch, though. Those things are badass. He rocked it and it didn't move. Those things are badass, dude. Yeah, you're not fucking them up. They're wild animals.

Like, they're not. He socked it up and it't move. Oh, those things are badass, dude. Yeah, you're not fucking them up. They're wild animals. Like, they're not. He socked it up and it stood there and took everything from it. Yeah, they don't have, like, fear and shit, like, the same type of fear. They either have run for your life or I'm going to kill you. There's no. They don't have, like, I'm a little tentative about this. He punched me in the face. Should I take another step forward?

You're either prey or predator. Kangaroos about to turn into a carnivore. They aren't carnivores, right? Beats the shit out of me. I think they eat leaves. I've seen them eating leaves in all the footage I've seen. I don't think I've ever seen them eat a wallaby. No, but then again, though, they always want to show you how cute they are.

So anything that you want to show that it's cute, you're going to show it eating leaves. Put some eucalyptus in its hand. It's adorable. A big giant animal eating leaves. It looks cute as shit. Right. You know, we see pandas. They're eating it. They look cute. shit. Right. You know, we see pandas. They're eating.

They look cute. They would eat your face in a heartbeat. Or is that just like the salad for a kangaroo? And it's about to just be bloodthirsty as fuck. Just eat 12 koalas. I was going to say, I ate like a good dozen, Baker's dozen koalas. And you know what? I should really have some roughage

here because it's gonna be a rough one tonight if i don't i really want to fiber i'm gonna smooth this out on the way out because otherwise i'm gonna i'm gonna blow out the whole system i have a feeling it's just enormous poisonous snakes i just ate just like a bowl of spaghetti 17 pounds of meat's gonna come out like a bowling ball i better eat some eucalyptus leaves here this is not gonna be good for anybody. At minimum, the mint will soothe my asshole. I think so. That's how that's going to work.

All that ruse are fucking just bloodthirsty as shit. Oh, they probably are, because we think they're cute. Anything that we think is cute is actually vicious. Sharp teeth under there. Oh, yeah. Sharp teeth. Yeah, like people like monkeys and chimps and shit they're the most oh my god things in the world holy fuck i watched a documentary i don't

remember what it was but it was the largest uh and growing population of chimps in like the amazon or something yeah it's getting bigger and bigger because they're they're taking over oh they're like a cartel yeah they're not fucking around and they're like getting organized because they're smart fucking pummel each other yeah yeah no they they have little battles it's messed up and you Oh, they're like a cartel. They're not fucking around. And they're like getting organized because they're smart. And then they fucking pummel each other. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they have little battles. It's messed up.

And you don't know when it's over because you can't fucking ask them. You know what's funny, though? Yeah. We could come in and dominate them in three seconds. They're doing all that. They're taking over the whole jungle. We could come in with nets, a helicopter, and some shotguns, and the jungle would be ours in one day. And it would just fuck up their whole...

You know what we should do? We should do that. Then let day and it would just fuck up their whole you know what we should do we should do that then let them go but just fuck up their little chimp psyches enough to where they know that if they push it too far it's gonna be over like in prison like the prisoners could do a certain shit and then when they still go too far they start rioting here we go with pepper spray and fucking non-lethal shotgun rounds and shit they know oh hey hold on they know where the line is you know yeah we really gotta want it here if we want to fucking have a riot we really gotta want it so i feel like that's what we have to teach these chimps they don't know i'm gonna set an example that's a mean fucking animal though they're smart they'll

get it holy shit they'll probably just figure out how to counter us or they'll just create gunpowder too i was gonna say that's what I mean. They're going to come up with their own weapons, and then we'll be fighting the chimps. Some giant shit bomb. Yeah, and they'll infect themselves with viruses, so we'll be scared of them. And then just come bite us all. And then bite everybody, and it's over. We've just told you how the world's going to end, everybody.

Ultra smart chimps. Biting people to death. Who carry viruses asymptomatically, but are deadly to people, and just biting people to death, but who are, who, uh, carry viruses asymptomatically, but are deadly to people and just biting people to death. That's how it's going to work. Watch out. Everybody is here. The future is here.

So, uh, November 4th, 1971, a week later after he fights the kangaroo sportsman there, he fights a week later. That's crazy to fight your second pro fight. He fights Richie Brown, who is six. Oh, and one coming into the fight. sportsman there right he fights uh a week later that's crazy to fight your second pro fight he

fights richie brown who is six oh and one coming into the fight turns out to be 13 nine and three in his career but uh this is a decision all four rounds and paul wins again really so two and oh is what i have as an official record for him that's it as we can know that's all we can get that's all we can get here so um it's at this point during around now where he gives up on boxing to concentrate on rugby i don't know if he figured okay getting punched in the face for four rounds at a time yeah for very little money really isn't the glory i was looking for or if he figured i'm not i just fought you know two half decent guys and went the distance i'm not going to be heavyweight i'm not muhammad ali over here yeah maybe i should not do this i'm five six yeah yeah i'm and i'm just

self-reflection i'm just not the greatest fighter maybe maybe i should i'm a better rugby player than i am a boxer which is fine people you make decisions in your life sometimes it's great to have a little self-awareness and know what you're capable how many comics decide that they're better actors than comedians yeah that's well i don't do that they decide it's way easier to be an actor and a lot more money in it wow this is easier more money i don't have to travel this is terrific wow who would have thought right i get my own trailer and yeah there's a parade of women in here people wonder why comics are like you know that make it in movies and shit why they don't do stand-up or they stop doing stand up.

Slow it down. Why would you? Because, yeah, if you had a good life, why the fuck would you want to go to Omaha to maybe entertain 300 people who might enjoy it? Maybe. You know, why would you want to do that? Right. Why would you put yourself up to that when you just stay in your house or go on vacation?

If you've been in a movie and you're not even that famous you know what I mean and you go to like Wheeling West Virginia and nobody knows who you are and they've just papered a room which is free tickets and everybody shows up it's full but none of those people know who you are and they don't know what kind of comedy you do and then you bomb in a fucking in a packed room

and you're like I was in fucking movies I was in movies but yeah why am I still doing this this is the 300 people in Wheeling that were willing to fucking buy two drinks in exchange for free admission into this building. That's basically what we have here. These aren't comedy fans. These are people who say, you want to go to show tonight? Right.

I mean, we just go out and get some drinks. It'll be fun. And if the guy sucks, we'll throw shit at him. That's what we're talking about. They don't care. There's no investment in these people. That's being a stand-up, going around doing that shit, unless you have your own audience and sell out.

It's 300 people of when you first start comedy and your friends go, if you're not funny, I'll heckle you. It's 300 of those. Exactly. And they can't wait to heckle. Yeah, which is fucking unreal. But that's what happens, though, and they wonder why people quit comedy for that. But I must say right now, a lot of our comedian friends scoffed at podcasts about four years ago.

Like, man, that's not my thing. Well, you know what? Hope Zoom comedy shows are your thing. Those are brutal. Yeah, because that's what you're fucking doing. This is better than that, I would say. Much better. I'll do this.

I would say. And enjoy your 30% capacity rooms later. Anyway, moving on. He decides to concentrate on rugby he's a halfback which we've covered before we have no idea what the fuck that means in terms of rugby we've covered this we have no idea as football we're not going to try uh we're just going to assume that the quarterback gets the ball from the center hands it to him and he goes for three to four yards at a pop. That's all we can assume at this point.

At maximum. At maximum. I'm not even going to. That's a glory run. It's awesome. So he plays for either Newton or Newtown. It seems like they would probably call it Newtown over there. That's Australia.

Yeah. Newtown Jets is what this is. there that's australia yeah newtown jets is what this is so uh this year uh their their captain's name is lionel williamson yeah who sounds like he'd represent me in a civil matter or something and i doesn't sound like a like a rugby hooligan at toughest he's a union president maybe he doesn't do the he's never had the yeah it just works for you yeah exactly very soft hand yeah very soft yell at somebody yeah Yeah, absolutely. That's about it. But if you shake his hand, you're like, whoa, hey, enough lotion there, chief.

What's your favorite pen, sir? Right? Jesus Christ. So this year, I found their attendance to try to gauge their popularity. I don't know. Their biggest home crowd this year was 9,633. Wow. And their average home crowd was 5,688.

We're almost there. Yeah, that's what I mean. So this is not a big draw, let's just say. Maybe that is for a, I don't know. But there's so many of them, too. If they're getting an average of 5,000 with how many games they play and how often. I guess. That seems good.

I don't know. Seems like a lot seems good i'm happy for them we have a good job new town so that's 1973 and 74 new town uh has a 9400 person game and their average home crowd goes down to 4510 so it drops by more than a thousand uh they had fired their coach this year they got a guy named clary as their coach now last name or first first name is clary jesus c-l-a-r-r-i-e so carrie and claire it's a mixture of the two of those names which is an odd name for a man i don't know what are you gonna do every time i hear claire i go that's a fat girl's name yeah because it's because it's breakfast club exactly just because of the breakfast what about clary that's a fat dude's name that's a fat dude thing real fat real like

food on his mustache fat you know city saving for later so uh their top point scorer this year was ken wilson with a hundred and one their top try scorer i don't know uh was lionel williamson that's why he's the fucking captain yeah chief he's trying harder than anybody who's trying to score lionel that's who the reason i'm in charge i'm the captain you fucking bastards what are you gonna listen to clary over here this fat fuck he's got half a meatball in his mustache no one's listening to him listen to lionel i'm trying fat bastards jesus christ so he had eight try scores i'm impressed i'm that sounds good yeah i have not been able to accomplish that in my got one

rugby career uh 1975 their biggest home crowd goes down to 7900 and then their average home crowd is 4567 what is happening you guys get it together it's falling apart it's not clary's fault they keep old clary in charge uh but uh after that though we have their top try scores different this year. It goes to John Bradstock so when that happens you know, shit's crazy. It's crazy. Now I saw what our guy here, Paul Hayward he seems to have played

in two games in 1973 where he had four points. Okay. That seems fair. 1974 he seemed to play in three games where he had four points okay great that seems fair uh 1974 he seemed to play in three games where he had one uh one try t is a try okay he had one try great try score is it a try score just a drum it's a try score but point score is just a point so i'm gonna go with try so he had one try got it okay we're just the score is just an extra we're just adding that it's

superfluous all right so we got one try and three goals and nine points so somehow one try and three goals equals nine points that's a lot this is weirder than tennis math i don't understand this shit at all i think that that try is when they kick it through those posts and you get like oh is that goals not games that goals, not games? That's goals, not games. Is there goals in this? I think so. Point score, but then you have points, goals, and tries?

I think so. Hold on a second. Now it's nuts. But how do you have less tries than goals? You'd think your tries would be your tries and then your goals would be the ones that went in. A try is something that you complete. A try is rare. You got to complete it to make it be a try.

Well, yeah, you got to score your try. Well, like you only get 10 in a year and you'll get 98 points. He did that? Well, no, Bradstock did. That guy had 98. He was the top point scorer with 98 and the top try scorer with 10. Okay. So you get a tenth of your points and tries.

Yeah. So somehow one try and three goals, guess equals nine points everybody got that yeah all right then what the fuck is going on this is why i can't do these i can't i try i try and then i fail yeah you're not a good try score jimmy's not tried very hard to score here he's not doing well it sounds as soon as somebody explains i go yeah that makes sense and then i forget everything they said yeah i don't know i'm not absorbing that i don't know it's not in our my it's a cultural thing you have to kind of grow up and see it and just absorb it in the background and you're just gonna get things you

gotta understand that americans think we're better than everybody else. Yeah, we just have this thing where, oh, we don't need that. That's stupid. That's stupid. Why don't you just play football? What do they got, tries and goals? Jesus, put a fucking helmet on and ram your 300-pound guys into each other and send somebody over with other people trying to kill them. That's what we do here.

And then I'll try to remember your stats. And then I'll try to remember how many tries you have. We'll all try. Right. So 1975, this is when it really gets out of control. He has eight Ts. So eight, I guess, tries. 32 Gs.

So I'm assuming that's goals. So eight tries, 32 goals, one FG. Is that a field goal now? I don't know. What are they fucking setting up for field goals? Who knows? What is going on, guys? I don't know.

He only has two of those in his whole career. Really? Or no one in his whole career. It's his only FG in his whole career. So I don't know if field goals are rarer than tries. They seem to be way rarer than tries. I'm very impressed. And points.

I mean, anybody's got that. So 75, he has 89 points, which sounds like a lot. Leader? I don't know. Well, no, because the 75 uh uh that brad stock i had 98 so he's not going to top brad stock so he was good at this yeah brad stock led the team in tries and points and and uh what's his name here paul hayward was right behind him in both of those so not too bad i don't know how eight tries, 32 goals, and a field goal equals 89 points, but we're going to put that for another day.

Sounds great. Sounds wonderful. So 76, same shit. 76, he's had 19 appearances and two Ts, four Gs, and 14 points for him. And apparently the win and losses were 3-16 that year. That's not good. Which doesn't sound good as a team. If they're 3-16, that16 that year. That's not good. Which doesn't sound good as a team. If they're 3-16, that's fucking terrible.

That is not good. Yeah, the games he was in at least, they were 3-16. 77, he's in 17 appearances. He has two Ts, one G, and eight points. So these stats make no fucking sense is what I'm getting at. I'm sure they make perfect sense, but we just are idiots. They were 2-15 in games he appeared in that year okay so this is not a great team through here it's pretty bad you can see why their average attendance keeps dropping it's it's dipping yeah it's still bigger than i've ever played but it's not bad uh 78 11 and he has 11

appearances where he has one t and three points. So maybe one try equals three points. So if one try equals three points, that would mean, let's look at 75. Eight times three is 24. Okay. So that would be, that's the T's. And then, hold on, maybe we're on to something here. 24, and then the goals would have their worth, say, two. Oh.

Okay. And point-wise. That would be 64 and 24, which would be 88. Right. Plus one field goal, which counts for one. Total points, 89. Are we there? Probably not.

But I just made that work in an algebra standpoint, even though... You put a lot of X's and Y's in there. I really do. I was staring at the first one when you said eight times three and i went 21 okay perfect i think i just figured it out probably not but you never know now this is where they say that he also in 76 was selected to represent austral Australia as a boxer. But then he was disqualified because he was professional, too.

So why did they select him if they knew he was professional? I don't know how that works. But see, that's how fucking impressive rugby is there. When a team is that shitty, they still draw 5000 people. Yeah. Well, here, that's incredible. I looked at 76, the average attendance here in 76. By the way, in 76, they had four captains for some reason.

Lionel wasn't cutting it on his own, apparently. Somebody gets sick. Biggest home crowd, 5,700 in 76. Wow. Average crowd, 3,850. That's terrible. Going way down. I mean, they were losing like crazy here.

Then the next year, 5 5700 is their biggest home crowd average home crowd 39 81 so not wonderful top point score only had 39 that year which the other years it was like 100 we're acting like we know but that doesn't sound good no it's not wonderful now march 30th 77 paul fractures his thumb and he has to be out five weeks that's why he only had 11 appearances or he had 17 and 77 so i don't know why i don't know shit about rugby i'm gonna be honest with you guys i imagine a broken thumb will ruin that though you'd have to you'd need it to carry the ball don't you have to carry it our football players play through it but you know you know that ball is huge though the rugby ball yeah's silly, prohibitively big for a man 5'6 to carry.

It really is. You always got to carry it up over your shoulders like an ant would or like a watermelon. Yeah, or put it on your head. Right. Like an African girl looking for water. Yeah, going to do the laundry or something. I don't know. Hysterical.

Do that shit, I think, basically. Yeah, I'm confused by this completely confused here aussies i don't know what's going on uh figure your shit out yeah i know you've had it figured out but we don't figure out how to make us understand yeah figure out how to make us understand you know it would be easier for you guys i noticed that ball like i said is just not convenient for anything encumbrance uh we'd like to suggest a design for you that we've worked out it's really good you can throw it it's spiral seems to work out great you can throw it like 90 yards if you got a good arm literally like

90 fucking yards i would pay to watch someone throw a rugby ball 90 yards that'd be difficult i think it seems heavier too it seems heavier it's the shape isn't it The shape isn't. It's a cool ball. It's a cool ball. I don't know how the fuck you play anything with it other than kill the carrier, which is pretty much what rugby is anyway. So never mind. I stand corrected. So 78, their home crowds are down to 3800 as an average. Again, just everything is kind of fallen apart here for the team and now paul in his career

plays in 73 first grade games i guess this team is a first grade team of different yeah levels of rugby he's the same size first grade as a first grader uh for newtown here uh he scored 14 tries and 43 goals in his career apparently that's his whole career i don't know if that's a great career i don't know i'm not sure he seemed well liked among his teammates that i do know uh so 78 is going to be the last time he plays rugby really yeah not of he didn't retire or you know have an injury or anything like that we'll find out what happened but let's just say for right now grace this is grace right here rugby he's a rugby guy people know him as a there's the rugby guy and people think he's a good cool guy he's

aussie bo jackson two sports and aussie bo that's right but just tinier yeah just tinier so uh if you don't know when Crystal Pepsi was discontinued, what was in Al Capone's vault, or which famous meteorologist is Lenny Kravitz's second cousin, then you haven't spent enough time on Wikipedia. But that's okay. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden, and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole, from Smartless Media. Listen to my new podcast, WikiHole from SmartList Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you'd learn that that's the science-y term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster as we start out on a Wikipedia page

and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience.

Quickly, I see that. Bing! The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face.

I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave her alone. Okay, so, um... This is not a so.

This is a period. Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor. You married his cousin. His brother. That's not him. Yes, ma'am.

I would make a beeline for the door. The Emmy Award-winning series returns how did i know that i have crystal ball in my head it's an all-new season it's streaming you can say anything judy justice only on freebie well he meets a guy that we'll talk about for a second here during this time named warren fellows now warren fellows is a bartender slash slash hair dresser so uh that means drug dealer yeah if you're in the 70s and you're like i 10 bar and cut hair you just sell coke to people who go to bars and get their hair cut that's what you do yeah that's your job pretty much at that point i feel like so uh fellows is an australian his father and this ties into sports as well his father's name is bill fellows he's a champion jockey and horse trainer oh so he's actually

comes from you know athlete stock right so even this would technically qualify even this guy not just athlete stock but like rich people athlete oh yeah he knows people with some money the people with the most money you have to have millions to fucking go near a horse period like you can't even fucking pet a horse if you don't have they know they can sense your bank account and bite you they'll bite you that's how how it works. Jim Rome was trying to be an everyman, like relate to like dudes that watch football on Sundays. The son of a bitch has like steak and four different racehorses and shit. Fuck yourself, Jim.

See you at the Preakness, asshole. They're like, fuck you. See you over at the Downs, you fucking jerk. Dickhead. Tell us how Belmont went. Talk to me about Brick Lane. Yeah. Fuck you, Jim.

Yeah. I'll put a deep voice on and act like I'm one of the guys. Hey. Give my audience a nickname. What's up, guys? Pretend to have a fake argument with fucking. I'm one of you. With an NFL athlete.

Where's Jim Everett? Push me over. There we go. I wish Jim Everett would have beat the living. I wish that was real. Imagine if that was real. And Jim pummeled his fucking face. And he just jumped on top. Well, if it was real...

Jim Rome would have sued the shit out of him. He would have sued the shit out of him and the fear in his eyes would have been... This man is huge. Jim Everett's a big guy. I don't care if you think he's a pussy for a football player. He's six foot five, two hundred something pounds and has huge huge all-american

have you has huge men tackle him from the from the blind side and gets up and plays again so no you're not gonna fight him fucking hate jim roland that's hilarious by the way quick thing here this week coming up we're gonna have a special thing going on this weekend and sort of into next for next week's episode and we're gonna help lenny dykstra celebrate two years of being prison free and jail free and arrest free and that's gonna be a lot of fun we're gonna have some uh we have some special things we're gonna talk to lenny actually have him on and we're gonna talk to him about what he's been up to yeah what was he thinking when he fucked up lenny's okay he's a very open dude and uh very willing to to lay it on the line and have a good. Lenny's a very open dude and very willing to lay it on the line

and have a good time, so it's going to be really fucking fun. Ask James and Jimmy five years ago, you guys are going to start a podcast? Wait until you talk to Lenny like that. Yeah, he'd be like, what? Why would we do that? Yeah, why would he want to talk to us?

I don't know if he likes you. Yeah, oh, really? All right, interesting. Fuck out of here. Dodd. So Warren Fellows, his father is a champion trainer and jockey. He won the 1949 Melbourne Cup on Fox Zami was the name of the horse.

Apparently, he warns the youngest of three children. But he had in 1950, his two year old sister died from a, quote, bowel complication. Oh, Jesus. So I don't know what the hell kind of bowel complication a two-year-old could have to kill him. Oh, that sounds like the worst death for a two-year-old. Yeah, it sounds like she ate, like, a baker's dozen koalas. Forgot about the ruffin. It's sad.

It happened 70 years ago. The fucking girl would probably be dead anyway either way either way she'd be on borrowed time so i don't anybody bitching and feeling bad so uh her old and uh his older brother gary died when gary was 36 years old there so uh you know it's a he's got a very kind of a tragic lineage in his family here. He has a son also named Adrian. We'll talk about later. Now, he went to De La Salle College.

This is Fellows. This is Fellows. This was a Catholic school for boys in New South Wales. He claims that he was almost expelled from school when he was caught running a horse betting operation in school as a child oh yeah yeah he's he's he's all this warren fellows he like he hustles he gets into bookmaking and drugs and hairdressing and bartending and you know he's got a lot of irons in the fire man it's pretty interesting so he said that he left the college and he went to another high school i don't know why you go.

I don't know how that works over there, though. I don't know if college just means private back then or what the fuck. This is we're talking 60s Australia. I don't know. Your college there is called University. We don't even know what a fucking try is. So we're not going to unravel this mystery. You know what I'm saying?

Jesus Christ. Sounds like he went from private to public. Yeah. That's what I think. Too many koalas. Whenever anything is just mucked up, we're going to go, hey, too many koalas. I don't know. I don't know what the hell happened.

Yeah. So he ends up working a bunch of jobs, like I said, including a barman, a bartender, and an apprentice hairdresser, and then a hairdresser as well. Now, when he started working in a bar is when he first got involved with drug trafficking, which if you've ever worked at a bar, you know that everybody has drugs. And if you don't do drugs, you are the minority. And you're really annoyed by people asking you if you want to do coke all the time. It's so fucking annoying. I worked in a bar.

Announcement to everyone. I wouldn't like any coke. Thank you. I'm good. The amount of times I've been asked to do coke that I have no interest in by the same fucking people over and over again. I could see why if you're a little bit weak, you'd get right into this fucking lifestyle. Not even weak. Just not already.

You know, finally give in to saying worried about. Yeah, I'm exhausted. Fine. Yeah. You know what? I want it. It's midnight. Just give me coke back in the toilet let's go let's go let's be sue bob let's do this let's be kirk and and mamie will you please leave me alone after this is that is it will this do it then it'll be more right so he got involved he first he would successfully imported hash from india with a friend of his so that's his first kind of dip

into the whole the whole smuggling thing and on uh after that he comes back to australia and he gets married he has a kid this warren fellows that's the son adrian now he people at the bar hear about that he's done a little smuggling you know he wants to be cool i mean if you're working at a bar you're trying to get laid and you're working at a bar, you're going to try to get laid, and you're going to talk to people. You're going to tell that story about the time you went to fucking India. That last hash run from India. This is the 70s, too, when it's like, ooh, hey, look at you.

You're pretty cool. It's you, Midnight Cowboy. Yeah, that's what it was. Hey, look at this shit. Or Worst Midnight Express. Right. We'll talk about that. So yeah, Fellows he people worked he traveled to los

angeles hawaii south america all over the place to get cocaine to smuggle into australia so he becomes kind of a little there's a little thing going on here some process warren fellows and uh it's interesting though like i said at the same time he was doing bookmaking here and there on the side he's got a lot of irons in the fire. He's selling Coke. He's got a little hash, a little heroin deal that he's selling. And he ends up meeting a guy named Nettie Smith, who was a crime boss in Sydney at the time. And we'll talk about how he ends up meeting Nettie Smith. This is what Fellows said about the whole thing, how he got wrapped up in this.

He said, quote, the money seems so good that I could honestly say the consequences didn't occur to me at all i made up my mind on the spot the money back then drugs were worth way more than they are now like a little bit of heroin back then especially like on an island yeah of australia was probably fucking expensive as compared to now when it's you know i'm sure it's still expensive there maybe i'm not sure i don't know how it works with islands it's i don't think i would think the economy of an island would be less is going to probably get in i would i would expect that everything in australia is an import you know that's what i mean it's like it's like a huge hawaii right i don't see them creating much apart from weed there i don't see them making too much meth maybe but all the outback is a lot of space out

there to fucking do it in my head jesus christ australia western hawaii larger hawaii much western much more western it's so far western it's sort of eastern hawaii so warren fellows meets paul hayward in a strange way here now hayward is married to the sister of crime boss netty smith's wife okay so he is brother-in-law's paul hayward is brother-in-law's with this netty smith who's a major sydney crime figure yeah they're their wives are sisters so they're gonna they're gonna spend time together if their wives are sisters. We just know that's how it is. So then Fellows works for Nettie Smith. So he ends up meeting Paul Hayward in that circle.

So Paul ends up hooking up with Fellows and becoming good friends with him. And as you can imagine, probably not the best thing for Hayward to get himself involved with a drink-slinginging hairdressing coke importing heroin dealing fucking hash smuggler probably not the best deal for a professional athlete yeah you know as we've decided we've talked about in the previous 208 episodes that we've done that this is going to be bad probably now he writes warren fellows wrote a book later and we'll plug the book and everything but here's an excerpt from the book of war talking about Paul Hayward when he first met him. He says, quote, he was strong in heart and body and spirit. I remember one time very early in our acquaintanceship.

I like that. That's cute. Acquaintanceship. Why not friendship? Because it was early. They were just acquaintances at that point. And the acquaintanceship. Oh, wow. That's very specific yeah an editor's probably said that were you friends yet or

were you acquaintances at this point it took forever to edit this book right let's put acquaintanceship in yeah or very early on in our acquaintanceship somebody in a bar was harassing me in some mindless way i didn't care much whatever they were attacking me about was trifling to me. But Paul took offense on my behalf, telling the offender in a forceful but compassionate manner to move away and just let everyone enjoy the night. We were virtually strangers, yet here he was sticking his neck out for me. Of course, he was a boxer and didn't have too much to fear from some lout in a pub, but he needn't have bothered either. If you were in his circle in the slightest way, he considered you hit his duty as a strong man to defend you.

I thought that was pretty special. That's nice of him. Also, as a little guy, it's fun to be a loud mouth because if a big guy hits you and you go down, he looks like a dick. Well, yeah.

If you're a little guy that can kick ass. If you drill him and knock him out, he really looks like a dick. If you're a pro rugby playing boxer you know that you're you're pretty confident in your fucking abilities i would think and he's a sturdy looking guy back then too you'd think like i don't know this guy looks like he probably hits the gym once in a while i don't know if i'm gonna it's just a little guy in a fight rarely loses because when he loses he still wins because the big guy looks dumb you know what i mean yeah that's

true sometimes it's different unless he loses his teeth and then whoever looks dumb. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. I mean, sometimes it's different. Unless he loses his teeth. Right. Whoever looks dumb really doesn't matter as he goes to the orthodontist to get his shit put back in. You know? At that point, that's the only time it's different. So he says of this,

Warren says, Paul's professional career as a football player with Newtown Rugby League was in top flight when I met him in 1978. There was absolutely no reason for him to be involved in the events that followed all he did to achieve his place in this sorry tale is Mary Gale the sister of Nettie Smith's de facto wife and that's how he met me so that sets up the whole thing of Paul is a hapless we'll find out what happened to him

because this is one of the worst luck stories of all time. I think it has to be. So anyway, fellows also came to know this drug dealer named and he's called separately Charles and William Sinclair. Don't know which is his real name. I don't know if he's William Charles Sinclair goes off different names, but Sinclair is his name. He's a drug dealer who also used to be an alderman and he was a politician in sydney he owns bars once you own a bar you must deal drugs in in the late 70s it's just a rule it's the law you have to it's like why would i not take this other revenue stream

it's silly right there maybe like if you have a podcast and you're just like i'm not setting up a patreon why why would i do people might like you and want to support you. Why would you not do that, you stupid idiot? So that's what's going on here. So you got to know William Sinclair. William Sinclair took Fellows with him to Bangkok, Thailand, where Sinclair was introduced to Nettie Smith. That's what he was.

Fellows was the go-between between sinclair and netty smith now sinclair is now living in thailand in bangkok he owns a bar over there he's very hooked into the underworld knows where to get drugs knows how to do things yakuza yeah well sort of not really he's an australian thai so it'd be right i don't know what the yakuza might be a different thing the wallacusas the kangakoos they're coming for you the yakuza ruse are coming everyone watch out the yakuza ruse are coming again sorry australia we fucking love you so anyway like i said like we say in every foreign episode we've hoped that you find our ignorance charming

we know nothing and we're every bit of australian culture we know is pretty much from crocodile dundee so we have very little knowledge of what the hell you have going on down there we don't know you don't send much out to the world to us other than actors who then stay here and we think they're American after five fucking years we don't know we're like oh yeah he has a weird accent when he talks in interviews that's right we don't know and your beloved gets stabbed by sea creature and his daughter's the best there you go that's what congratulations on your marriage. Bendy. Good job. Yeah. Good job, Bendy. So this is this is where William Fellows hooks Sinclair up with Nettie Smith so they can have a heroin smuggling operation into Australia. So Nettie Smith can then distribute these heroin in Australia.

OK. Here. Here. Paul Hayward's name in there. No, no. There's a reason for that. He's not fucking involved in this at all. He just no. He brother-in-laws with one guy and friends with another he's married into the problem let's talk a little about netty smith here it's just to give a layout of who we're

dealing with is the the boss of this operation okay he's born in 1944 he had apparently a shit childhood he was poor and his family was kind of fallen apart he was put in a home a state home at the age of 10 he left school at 14 and started his criminal career at 14 he was thankful he's not manson done with that yeah that's what i well you know what it's kind of uh he's almost manson yeah well he just he liked money more than Manson. That's the thing. He liked everything, but he also wanted money. Whereas if Manson cared more about money,

that whole thing would have went a different way. You're probably right. He just wanted some weird little, wanted people to worship him. He didn't really give a fuck about the money. And he wanted weird shit to happen. He wanted to be famous. He didn't care about being rich.

That was fine. Yeah, he was the opposite Tupac. Yeah, exactly. I want money, fuck the, he wants fame, fuck the money. Yeah, well was the opposite Tupac. Yeah, exactly. I want money. He wants fame. Fuck the money. Yeah, well, Tupac wanted fame, too. That's not a simple man.

Yeah, of course. I know. But he said that. He said it once. He once said he didn't care. He did say it early on, too, and then he changed a lot. This was before he was fucking Janet Jackson on the big screen. You know what I mean?

Then he's like, oh, shit, what did I say? Yeah, I'll die for this. What did I say two years ago? Shit, I will fight on camera yeah you can watch my crimes happen on the news i will gladly die for this this is amazing so uh netty smith is for real he's a real tupac this motherfucker he's he's real realer than tupac uh over the next 20 years he's arrested 25 times wow that's a lot of arrests uh his sentences he had like six years for robbery things like that in 1967 he took part in a gang rape oh no what a good guy what a nice guy and got 12 years in prison for that so far you got 18 years of his life to go away that's what i mean right there. But he's released on parole.

You want to let that guy out early after serving two-thirds of his sentence. He gets out in March of 1975 on parole. So he is on parole, so keep that in mind. But I want that guy doing the whole every minute. We're like, no, no, no, it's not. We got about three more minutes left. We're keeping you. As soon as that judge hit the gavel, that's when the timer starts.

That's it. After that, boy, we're doing it. Oh, my word. So he's a big guy, too. A big guy, a heavy guy. He weighs 250 pounds. Big guy like that. He's the boss.

You know what I mean? People call him the big fellow. That's his nickname. And everybody said he was a really good fighter as well. Like a good street fighter. Well, you don't have to really be. good fighter as well, like a good street fighter. Well, you don't have to really be. No.

One connector. Crime boss here. Yeah. That's a fragile people. He's also, Australia, they're a hardy fucking people over there. Jesus. For the most part, if you see pictures of them on the beach, they look fragile. Well, I mean, they're doughy and white. Yes, they are.

They are doughy. And they're doughy and white yes they are they are doughy and they're very white and they live in an environment much like arizona which is the sun you can't it's impossible for a very pale person to get a tan yeah they'll just singe into nothing you just either stay outside or get cancer in 15 minutes those are your options you really don't have a lot of options yeah so that's what i feel like australia is a bunch of people that go out for like four minutes at a time like oh the sun's night oh shit i gotta go inside i'm bright red already you know it's 9 a.m yeah done so uh that's the sort of thing there but they're

a hearty fucking people as australian they're crazy yeah they are they're the fucking nuts they're lunatics but they're a lunatic fringe it feels like the vast majority are not a uh a strapping maybe they're not i think you're thinking of british people more i don't know i say australians is just like tanner brits yeah yeah brits with some weathered faces brits with wrinkles yeah they sent they sent like every roofer they had there send all the roofers to australia all of them that's what it was get them used to it yeah so november of 1976 smith is charged with attempted murder while out on parole for gang rape how's this guy free uh yeah attempt to murder assault with attempt to rob attempted armed robbery and possessing an unlicensed pistol uh which yeah

fucking insane right forgiving people is a better definition i would say my word so he's out still i don't know if he's out on bail or what here uh october 11th 1978 is netty smith is out and so is hayward and so is uh warren fellows so october 11, 1978 at 9 a.m., Warren Fellows and Paul Hayward are in Bangkok. And now Hayward is in a room in the Montian Hotel in Bangkok. It's a very nice room. And about 9 a.m. on a Wednesday morning, October 11th, 1978, it becomes much less of a nice room as immigration officials and police burst into his hotel room and search it okay um he is completely uh they've ripped paul's room apart we'll find out what they find here uh they said well we'll take a quote right from warren's book quote thai

policemen carrying guns are tearing the room apart babbling things I cannot understand there is shouting from somewhere else in the hotel and I'm dragged by both my arms out into the hallway and down to Paul's room he's being pressed against the wall with guns at his head while other policemen are standing over the red suitcase they urgently chorus something toward the major and he squeezes my face till I feel my cheekbones will break. He says, quote, the suitcase has a coated lock. Tell me the number. I tell him the number is 256 and another policeman opens the lock.

Insane with fear. I stupidly cling to the hope that they will close the case without looking under the flimsy blue towel that covers 24 bags of grade four heroin. Oh, no. Not good in Thailand. i'm sure they're very bad i'm sure they're not just gonna leave that be uh yeah he says quote there is a grotesque silence in the room as the towel is removed i want to cry but my body is so terrified it cannot manage even so simple a task i know i am dying uh the major there, the Verage is his name, is in a state of ecstatic rage. He marches me to the balcony and holds my head over the edge, forcing me to stare out over the bustling streets and filthy lanes below.

See the people down there? He barks, shaking my head like a toy. You can forget them now. None of them can help you. Forget about your embassy. Forget about a lawyer. So he says that's what they were taking out. So this is the situation they're in. Not good. Forget an embassy. Forget your embassy forget about a lawyer so he says that's what they were taking out so this is the situation they're in not good forget an embassy forget your embassy forget your lawyer

basically i own you now motherfucker you know you are screwed can they do that it's i suppose can anybody do anything it's a fucking foreign country that's why they have that show locked up abroad yeah because it's like it's insane don't do this yeah the laws are different especially with foreigners and especially thailand with drugs was crazy back people got the death penalty for drugs like crazy all the time back there yeah if you had a certain amount of heroin it was death penalty that's it you know i'm just here to fuck boys i'm here oh yeah let's go let go. Eight-year-olds are that way. If they try to offer you heroin, let me know about it, because I will execute them.

I'll march their sore little buttholes right up to the gallows, I swear to God. I am not taking any shit from these kids anymore. That is unbelievable that they gave a shit that much about drug trafficking. Yeah. Meanwhile, they've got children being raped for $20 a it's no problem nobody gives two fucking shits get out of here dr let's go so they talk about being at the police station after that and warren says uh he calls the one guy mad dog that's the uh the the main major guy who held him over the balcony the officer the lead officer's name is Mad Dog. No, he calls him Mad Dog.

The Warren Fellows in the book. Got it. So he says, quote, Mad Dog leaves the room and returns with two documents written in Thai. He places them on the table in front of us and taps them with a thick wooden ruler with a strip of metal embedded on it. Remember those? Yeah.

Why do they have a metal edge? Is this to make it a better line? It's for a better... Cleaner? It doesn't chip. You know what I mean? Yeah, I guess that's what you metal. Why do they have a metal edge? Is this to make it a better line? It's for a better, like, it doesn't chip. You know what I mean? Yeah, I guess that's what you get. If they chip, then you go brr. Yeah, brr. And you're like, ah, shit.

That's a shit ruler. Not a straight line. No. Use a plastic one. Also, it hurts like a motherfucker. That's why. That'll get you. Yeah.

Because we need eight-year-olds with a weapon. Well, they should. Over there, they need weapons. People trying to put things in their buttholes constantly. They should have weapons. Arm the eight-year-olds of thailand everyone rulers with metal edges fuck it so he says quote uh he tells us to sign them and i ask for someone to translate the documents which it's in thai smart move if you're going to sign a confession you might want to know what you're

signing you might just you know have confessed to killing the prime minister you have no fucking idea you might just say that you're running a harem of eight-year-olds well that would be fine they'd be like this is just for tax purposes please sign your your traffic citation it's not a crime just this is for tax purposes we need to we need to tax these children if they're making anything document the asshole that's how it works we have to know we have to know which assholes are better than others so he says quote mad dog starts to laugh he tells the other policemen what i have said and they laugh too so they're all laughing at them that someone's going to translate then he walks behind me and stands stands close he's tapping me softly on the shoulder with the ruler

he leans down toward me and i can feel his breath on my ear he says you think you're pretty tough don't you i tell him i don't oh yes he whispers you like to think you're pretty tough yes you do you don't want to sign this do you you think you're tough enough to survive in here tough enough to survive me well mr warren he sighs as he stands i'll look after you which that's not as kind as it sounds i don't think he's going to look after you. Then he looks after him by, quote, the rod cracks down on my head and I nearly pass out. That's how he's looking after you. Mad Dog pushes my head down, pressing my head into the table with all his weight. He leaves and we are all alone with other Thai policemen.

Paul and I try to talk, but we are beaten whenever we make a sound or move too close to each other. A Caucasian man enters the room with some documents. He says he is a representative from the embassy. I ask if I can see a lawyer, but he says there's no need for that at this time. He begins asking questions. State your full name, what's your date of birth, who's your next of kin, all of that shit. So that's where they're at. They have no idea what's going on.

The one guy that comes in that speaks English, we don they have no idea what's going on the one guy that comes in that speaks english uh we don't know if how if he really works for the embassy doesn't know if he's asked me who's my next of that's what i mean he didn't know if this is just some white guy they hired to fucking make uh you know foreigners who are in the police station feel more comfortable while they sign their life away and get beaten to death who the fuck knows that might be the scariest question ever asked next of kin What do you need to know that for? Fucking why? I'm feeling great.

I got to be honest. I'm healthy as a horse. Not even allergies. I just went to the doctor like a month ago. Clean. Clean. Blood tests and everything. Clean bill of health.

Next of kin. Yeah. So apparently here, you know, how this went about apparently hours earlier hayward had asked fellow uh and asked a courier and fellows warren fellows to collect this briefcase that they ended up finding it in because he said he was nervous having it in his possession and everybody ended up falling asleep and the switch never happened so it wasn't even supposed to be in brian paul's room he wanted someone else to take it because he's not a drug smuggler and he's very uncomfortable with having this much heroin here and because he literally never did this before as you can imagine you'd be sweating if you're sitting there with a suitcase full of heroin in thailand in

1978 you'd be shitting your fucking pants when your best excuse is i'm here for the eight-year-old butthole yeah this isn't even you here for heroin the buttholes sir the buttholes so many buttholes little girls no boys boys little boys christ no all of them five at a time they're little so apparently uh the day before this the paramata eels were in bangkok in bangkok for their end of season trip and people ran into hayward at a local bar and people are asking him how come you weren't in america because the jets his team were doing some tour in america and he was supposed to be there but instead he was doing this oh no, no. And we'll find out why. The next day, everybody knew because in the headlines all across Australia were these guys and piles of photos with huge stacks of heroin and them sitting there, you know, with plastic bags full of fucking heroin.

So Hayward was he basically said that his role later on, his role in the whole thing was just to look after Warren. Make sure nobody jumped him and took the briefcase. All right. You be the muscle, kind of. Yeah. That's it. That's his only role. Hey, take care of him because it's, you know, Bangkok's dangerous at night.

That was basically it. And Warren's kind of a pussy. Sweet gig. But you're tough. Yeah. That's all it was. Yeah. He said, quote, this is Warren Fellows fellows or this is another guy quote i was all

this is paul quote i was only there so warren wouldn't get burned that's it and that's what fellow said too he's exact same thing he said that he wasn't a drug user at the time that's the other thing fellows and hayward neither of them are drug users at the time neither of them take drugs at all they're just you know fellow sells drugs i'm sure he does a little toot now and then at the bar. Got a sample. But they're not big. He's not like doing this to support a drug habit or anything. It's just he's just partying.

Paul said he was offered twenty thousand dollars to do this in 1978. It's a lot. It's a lot of money. He said it was three seasons of football earnings for him. So half his fucking career, three years of salary to do this and it's october with the christmas season coming up and shit all you have to do and it was just to accompany fellow warren's gonna do everything all you have to do is hang out with him 20 grand hang out that's it so that's oh man it's a hard one that's hard to resist yeah you know that's hard to resist and and he is paul is married he's got children he

bills everything else i mean this is a very lucrative offer for him and so the the other guy the william or charles either one however you want to put it sinclair here he also ends up getting arrested a little bit later over this whole thing for masterminding it. Now, Hayward said, quote, when he's arrested, he said, quote, I can never go back to Sydney after this. Thinks he's fucked. Now, Paul's wife, this poor woman at the time is 24 years old. Her name's Gail. She drove Paul to the airport that day, saw him off as she did.

She thought he was going to the u.s just like last year the jets to do yeah to do the the rugby league thing and all that shit so he was like have fun in america she didn't even say enjoy the buttholes that's what i mean she was just gonna say he's like she doesn't even know about the buttholes as he walks away with a suitcase there's no buttholes in america well none of the type I'm looking for, if you know what I mean. With an empty suitcase in his hand. Oh, you know it. So it was then the next morning, 6 a.m., Thursday, October 12th. She is woken up by the telephone.

It's her sister-in-law, Nettie's wife. Right. And saying, oh, no, that's her sister. I'm sorry. It's somebody else's. I don't know who the fuck it is. Somebody in her family called. A woman she's related to calls her.

Got it. somebody else's i don't know who the fuck it is somebody in her family called a woman she's related to calls her got it and says while they were speaking a brother of paul's was banging on the front door that's what it was uh basically they said he said paul's been arrested and is in jail in bangkok for heroin smuggling the his wife's like pardon he's supposed to be in you know toledo today what the fuck are you talking about she said quote it didn't hit me for hours i heard it myself on the radio after that i rang a number in canberra a foreign affairs man he couldn't tell me anything i hadn't heard already nobody has told me anything officially so she said that because they stood the press was asking her like do you have you are you do you? Do you live extravagantly? Is this like a normal thing?

She says this is her son, Bradley. Quote, Since Bradley was born, we've never been without. Paul didn't like to be in debt at all. He'd save and have cash before he bought anything. She says, quote, We might owe $100 on the washing machine, but he'd pay. But he paid for my car with rugby money. I've only had my driving license a few weeks, she says.

So he's trying to provide for a young family, which is tough. You know, she says that she's, she says, quote, it's funny if these were Bradley's, I'd spend all day dusting them.

But Paul has so many trophies that don't mean much to him because he has a ton of rugby trophies. And apparently they keep them like in the laundry room because Paul doesn't't care he's like i don't want fucking don't put those out there stick them in the laundry room or whatever i'd rather pay the rent that's what yeah i give a shit about so that's what it seems like is going on he wants money fuck the fame that's what it is he's looking for money here um which is uh uh the wu-tang also said. He said, quote, fuck the pussy, give me the money and the weed. Okay. Paraphrasing Tupac, essentially. Perfect.

That's what he says. I can relate. Man has his desires. What do you want from him? Excellent point. So how did they get caught? Let's figure that out. Nettie Smith, apparently apparently all of 1978 was the

subject of a wiretap oh no uh yes uh by the by the police in australia justice stewart's age tapes royal commission later reported that's what that's called justice stewart's age tapes royal commission quote by listening to smith's conversations it was learned that smith was organizing and financing a heroin importation from Thailand. The names of Bill Sinclair, Warren Fellows and Paul Hayward, as well as others involved, were mentioned and the details of the importation were discussed. God damn it. Fucking insane. You can't trust a man named Nettie.

Who can you trust? Who can you trust? Nettie and Cecil and Warren. Come on. can you who can you trust netty and cecil and warren come on they said too this is odd because smith netty smith had turned his home into a fucking fortress the year before he pulled like a full paul castellano the year before and turned all sorts of uh he had two and a half meter high so you know what eight feet high almost walls put in everywhere security doors windows spotlights clothes closed circuit tvs and all that shit and then the guy down the deli's running his

mouth he put the full scar face thing in yeah it's fucking ridiculous so they said the the police then were more suspicious of him because he had all this surveillance equipment that's a great point yeah they said he said though it's to prevent being robbed i have valuable things here and you know valuable things were like heroin though that was the problem rather than his family so yeah he ends up with uh you know paul and and warren in this whole mess they said that the police passed on the information that they found in the wiretaps over to Thai authorities. Thanks a lot. And Sinclair, Fellows, and Hayward were all arrested there.

It's 8.4 kilos of heroin. That seems like a lot. That's a shitload of heroin. 2.2 pounds is a kilo. In a suitcase. In a suitcase. You're carrying a 20-pound suitcase. Of heroin.

Of just heroin. When you open that up, that's got to look like, whoa. Holy shit. That's a lot of heroin there. Already when you open that up that's got to look like whoa holy shit there's a lot of heroin there already in little baggies too it's not even like bricks you know what i mean it's small it's ready for jesus christ transportation it's fucked up and this is in addition to the next day then october 12th uh netty smith is arrested along with his brother, his stepbrother Edwin was arrested with 1.6 kilos of heroin

in Australia later on here so they also arrest Nettie Smith they raid his house it's Arthur is his real first name Arthur Nettie Smith, they raid his house October 12th in Australia it's in Sydenham

it was a 29 000 house which i don't know if that's a lot in 1979 for a house in australia i don't know did they have more dollars than us then i have no clue maybe that they said the search turned up 39 360 in cash in a bedroom wardrobe and a receipt for a locked tin box at the Merrickville branch of the, of a bank. Okay. Which later was found to contain $90,100 in cash,

$10,000 worth of diamonds, a short manual setting out how to get a container past customs. He had like a how to sm safe deposit with his smuggling money asshole jesus keep those things separate keep that with like some silly books like you know the idiot's guide to putting or some shit put it in that like i don't even play golf either so who cares the guns and the drugs never put those together don't put them together on the wire when they buy a fucking thing they come up they give one guy money he signals to another guy who then gives you the drugs the money and the drugs aren't in

the same fucking place at the same time never put them together those are separate yeah they're like no let's put the smuggling guy let's show them how i made a hundred thousand dollars here so also and a coded letter from a hong kong chinese merchant about smuggling. It's like a drug dealer's W-2. That's what it is. It's literally like more how-to shit. Like, by the way, they won't tell you in this book, but you should do this, this, and this also if you really want to smuggle it. Taylor Swift is soaring high. Her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans.

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You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Good. So police arrest him. They arrest his wife at the time also, which is Paul's sister Gail's wife. So now her husband and her sister have both been arrested, which is a lot here. They charged them both with possession of money unlawfully obtained. Also present at the time were paul's brother and also warren fellow's wife who was also there they weren't arrested so they searched fellow's home after this in australia they found receipts for two uh two safe deposit boxes and another bank

under his wife's maiden name idiot but they found him they found to contain these boxes 185 990 dollars that's a lot in cash and especially in 1978 holy shit a false passport these are all things that are bad evidence here in the name of errington but it had warren fellow's picture on it right so it's a fall you got a fucking false passport. So that's an escape box. Right. I'm gone. False passport, my money, I'm getting on a boat and I'm sailing. You disappear for a while.

That's exactly what the fuck that is. That's an escape. 189 grand? You can live a lifetime in Haiti as a king. Back then, yeah. To Haiti? You could have gone to fucking the Philippines or something. I'm just thinking of the lowest rung, cheapest place.

The Philippines. You could have gone to Cambodia or some crazy shit. Southeast Asia back then, you could buy half a country for $185,000. My God. As long as there was no poppy fields in that particular region, then it'd be more expensive. They'll run you out. Yeah. So the Nettie Smith stepbrother, like we talked about, Edwin Smith, they found all sorts of shitloads of heroin there.

High grade heroin that was as well. And then the following day, a Brisbane private detective walked into the office of the Queensland police commissioner and surrendered $140,000 cash as well that she had hired. I guess the police had had private detectives looking for shit, too. He got $140,000 cash. So this whole little group, they seized He got $140,000 cash. So this whole little group, they seized $435,000 in cash. That's impressive. In a couple days. So they're now, Warren and, to a lesser extent, Sinclair, but Warren and Paul Hayward are now in a Thai jail awaiting trial.

They're no Pablo Escobars, but they're doing well. They're doing well, except for Paul. He made $20, 20 grand he had nothing else to show for any of this shit basically they're in jail for about a week now and some uh australian journalists go there and basically they talk to these guys and they say that they're a fucking mess the The Thai authorities say that both of them already confessed to attempting to smuggle the heroin. Paul talks about the police pressure that they had on here. He said, quote, We had to confess.

They are terrible here. They say if you don't confess, you will be shot or given life. If you help them, they say that they will half your sentence. That's what paul says paul uh warren says that paul is in a terrible state about this whole thing the cell is about five meters by three meters so nine by fifteen yeah uh and it's a pretty good size it's got

well it's got four people in there oh that's not good at all two thai people and and hayward and fellows are in there that's not bad compared to where they go i'm sure this is isn't bad at all they said that uh you know fellows has been sick they said that he looked puffy and unshaven his hair was a mess which was real i mean like you're telling me he looked australian he looked australian he looked pale and puffy and unshaven and everything except for the deep lines around their eyes. Didn't have that. Very Australian. He said that he and Paul hadn't eaten for three days.

And later, food was taken to them. And they said that they had got steak and cheese sandwiches, vegetables, fruit, and milk. The press were allowed to bring in for them. I don't know why you want milk out of that. I guess you want the vitamins, even if it's gross. So William Sinclair was also there, like we talked about. He said that he doesn't think he'll survive imprisonment very long. He's 67 years old.

And he says that he's innocent of all charges. They're supposed to make their appearance in court. The Australian embassy said they had no comments on reports that you know this was a fucking mess basically and uh all this type of shit one police source involved in the case said if quote uh summary punishment was not meted out as assuming investigations prove their guilt thai authorities would be following a double standard like we can't treat them better than we would treat somebody else. Quote, we just shot a Hong Kong Chinese for the same reason.

Drug trafficking. So, I mean, the last government execution was a loatian. Why should there be any exception for Australians? That's what they said about. That's what the police said in the press, in the newspaper. We just shot a Hong Kong. We just shot a Hong Kong Chinese for the same reason. And we also just killed a Loation. So fuck them.

Wow. Yeah. I don't know what to say about that. That's wild. An embassy official said that a local law firm was involved in their defense and all that sort of shit. A journalist was allowed to speak to them briefly. This is fucking crazy stuff that's going on horrifying horrifying that what's going on here and if you're in australia you've got to feel shitty and and worried but don't worry because in 1978 i found this is not the sales but it's sort of i found right under this article not to

worry everyone bet midler's coming to town. All right. So the opera. Oh, boy. Return concerts due to an overwhelming demand. Miss Midler has agreed to two extra concerts at the State Theater on November 17th and 18th. Bookings open today. Prices 1250 plus booking fee. Not bad.

Bette Midler in concert. There's a picture of it. Is that her singing? That's it. I guess she's singing. She's singing that's there i guess she's singing right she's singing i don't think she's acting i'm gonna do a monologue now so uh yeah that's the bett midler so there's something to cheer up about maybe he could gail can go to the bett midler show and feel better about herself i don't know wind beneath your wings it's like what

the fuck huge it's bigger than the article about the prison it took up half the page this article about bett midler this man's being threatened to be executed uh under the justification that they also shot a loatian and a hong kong chinese when you shoot the hong kong chinese but bet middler will be here hey everybody they're gonna shoot our countrymen but bet middler's coming to town maybe she'll sing about it so this goes on for a while january 10th 1979 the they have an interview with the prime minister there in in uh in thailand and he would like them to be sentenced without trial that's his thing he said thai police said that they they urged the prime minister and the thai police wanted to police officer said they urged the prime minister and the thai police wanted to police officer said they urged

the prime minister who's a general by the way uh to use his summary powers to sentence without trial these three australians they want to make an example out of these fucking three holy shit because they find out paul's a rugby player so they're like oh he's famous we can really make a good example out of this fucking guy we just shug knighted him over the balcony that's everything everything so uh by the way that heroin at the time they estimated it being worth three million dollars in the australian market when all done up and uh you know ready for street sales netty had a 29 000 house he had a 29 that's a lot of money that's a shitload of money yeah well he had you know three times that in the bank too which is pretty fucking funny score this is yeah this is what he's going to do uh so the uh also sinclair was a bar owner at the time they're saying

so a police spokesman said quote we proposed to the prime minister he should use strong punishment because we have evidence that the australians were big dealers they had been trafficking heroin between bangkok and australia diverting the drugs to America and Europe. But the lawyers for the three of these guys said, quote, We were told a long time ago that the article for sentencing without trial would not be used because they were not manufacturers and the amount involved wasn't big enough. So, yeah, they're not making it. They don't have a fucking factory. You guys made this. That's why there's a problem here.

Yeah, they went there. We didn't do it. Yeah, I get it. You guys created it. We had to get here to problem here. Yeah, they went there. We didn't do it. Yeah, get it. You guys created it. We had to get here to get the shit. Maybe get rid of those guys. I'll make an example out of me. Or figure out how to make people not want it where the fuck, you know.

Also, maybe they won't. You know, that would help. I'm just patronizing your business that you guys cultivated. Jesus. I mean, you set the shops up. What the fuck? So January 20th. By the way, a Thai taxi driver is also in this because

he was the heroin courier that brought it to them and they also find that guy and he is also ensnared and arrested in this whole thing it's like not buying michael jordan's shoes because they were made by in a sweatshop yeah no shit that's not gonna stop no fuck no so uh january 20th 1979 uh paul's wife gail is allowed to visit and she is there um she said she saw him she's gotten a couple visits at this point and she said she saw him for 10 minutes today and which was her second visit she said that at the time later on she'll she didn't say this now but later on after everything's said and done she admits that she had bribed prison guards with 500 baht which is is about 20 bucks at the time, so she could kiss him goodbye. So she'd have to bribe the guards and they'd let her give him a kiss goodbye.

So February 6th, 1979 is court. They plead not guilty. Obviously, that's a smart move there. I think here they take him in leg irons and handcuffs and they Hannibal Lecter these guys, too. It's pretty fucking interesting. They did remove the handcuffs before they went into the courtroom, but they then had to carry their chains and leg irons with them.

I don't know which is worse at that point. It almost looks worse carrying a big armful of chains into the courtroom. Jesus Christ, man. So they set a trial date there. For all three men, actually. Sincclair as well they all plead not guilty sinclair hayward's pregnant wife by the way gail is pregnant his wife uh she's about four months pregnant at this point she are five months

pregnant she had just he i mean he just got it in under the radar or right under where before he went to bangkok like the night before he's like i, I'm going to America, so I'm going to stick one in you good tonight, dear. And then next thing you know. I won't need any American pussy. I'll get it right now. Right there. So apparently the wife was there. Also, his brother said that, or I'm sorry, what's his name?

William Sinclair's son said they were allowed to visit between 15 and 30 minutes, except on the weekends. And also said that the authorities had been very helpful. They're trying to be nice. So January 29th, 1980, the trial is postponed. And this is going to keep happening. We'll talk about here. Postponements. Postponements.

Postponements, which just leaves them sitting in a Thai jail there. The charges apparently don't know why they postponed it. Apparently, they needed more time they said to prepare the case and the the first postponements came from the defense we need time to build the defense and then the prosecution needed something try to make it worse i'm not sure i was i'm just blown away by the craziness of the whole thing like trying to figure out a foreign country's legal system and shit like that i never want to figure that out i mean i'm blown away i'm blown away by a lot of this but not nearly as much as i'm

blown away by the sales oh my god the sales what does it cost if you happen to be in sydney australia in january of 1979 i have got some shit for you now this we're gonna do this is the not the sales this is the entertainment version we going to see what's playing at the theaters, what they're advertising in the newspaper that I'm looking through. First of all, there was a show. I don't know if it's a popular show there, if they were just shoving it down your throats and then it went off the air in six episodes. A show called Kingswood Country that they have a big, giant eighth of a page ada-page ad on every single page of the newspaper. They loved it. Every single one.

And every one, they have a different character on. This is the picture right here, as you can see. And it says, Meet Ted Bullpit's Daughter. She listens to everything Ted says. And there's a picture of a woman with her fingers in her ears, clearly not listening. And then the other one would be like, Meet Ted Bullpit's Son. And meet-in-law like each ad called it meet the bullpits yeah each ad was a different character so i don't know it was on channel seven and boy were they shoving this up your australian asses so i hope that thing was like a you know your version of i love lucy or

something it ran forever but i don't know is that hee haw i think so so then i found here some theaters you could go see uh greater union theaters you could go see some movies monty python's life of brian is playing oh i'll bet that was a huge hit that's gonna go i'm bet clint eastwood escape from alcatraz oh going there uh sydney sheldon's bloodline is playing star trek the motion picture uh my brilliant career uh it says plus prince charles backstage at covent garden i don't know what the fuck that is but that sounds like some sort of historical retrospective or some shit uh hot lead and cold feet is playing airport 80 the concord that sounds like a porno. It does. Lord of the Rings is playing there. Oh.

The original Australian version. They did it first. Apparently. Bambi is there also. The Sting with Robert Redford and Paul Newman. I almost said Robert Newman and Paul Redford, which is not who they are. Mission Galactica, The Cyclone Attack. Whoa.

That's coming. And more Bambi monty python and the holy grail is also playing so you can go see two monty python movies then let's say you don't want to go to the theater yeah you want to get a hand job in your car yeah so you want to go to the drive-in here it is baby you can go see the amityville horror or double feature cheech and chong up in smoke and the warriors hell yeah holy shit i'd go to that tonight if that was playing we'd be going double feature up in smoke in the war i was almost amazed that that australians even like us with the american shit we gave them and then at the drive-in that's where the good stuff yeah they like they like the movies and then at the hoyts theater you got rocky 2 okay apocalypse now is playing uh bear island i don't know what the fuck goes

on there people get eaten by bears alien yeah alien rocky 2 and apocalypse now all playing at the same theater and the muppet movie oh jesus and it's everybody all the movies have who's in it above it yeah it says kermit miss piggy they're not real people that's not the stars of the film they are jim henson that's yeah just friend it's all jim henson also escape to athena hot stuff and of course don't miss and i'm not kidding last two days of scum so go see that after this we're cleaning it up we're gonna clean it all up the theater's dripping the walls are dripping it's been playing for three weeks it's we gotta clean this place up scum last two days of the jerks the jerk studio we're gonna clean this one up after this we're no longer playing triple x movies we're not doing it at the scum this is fucking you know how much scum is everywhere we've had to

rename the theater scum so you can go see scum in its last two days so uh february 10th 1979 there's jail visits the gale is back again visiting she says seeing her husband in leg irons and handcuffs in a bangkok jail quote it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me probably worst thing that's ever happened to him. Probably the worst thing that's ever happened to him, too, I would assume. She said she made a statement at the hotel. She paid a visit to her husband. She then had to fly home to Sydney. She's pregnant.

She has two kids. And they weren't letting her visit anymore. They told her that's no more visits. They say she spent three weeks in Bangkok visiting her husband every day except Saturday and Sunday. So, I mean, it's been brutal just going to the jail every day, especially being pregnant. Everything else, she said of the prison visits, quote, all the people there have been kind and courteous and gave us plenty of time to talk together.

We talked mainly about the children in the future. They kiss his picture before they go to sleep at night. It's been a terrible shock for the whole family. Jesus. We all know Paul is innocent, but he has accepted the possibility that he may be locked up for a long time. It's wonderful that he's had the strength. He has faced this

possibility and is able to live with it. He is keeping fit, and that's important to him. He's always doing press-ups and shadowboxing. He's even taught some Thai prisoners how to do those exercises. And so, yeah. She said, quote, look, I've overheard people in Sydney saying that those three ought to be shot.

I never really thought that would happen, even at the beginning. I didn't dream that was a possibility. Now, Warren Fellow's wife said, by the way, she'll divorce him in a couple of years. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fucking asshole. Big time. She's there.

She said that she never believed her husband would be shot either she said i'm sure we'll still have a future and then she divorced him she said he looked terrible while he was handcuffed and leg shackled he's not fit yeah not at all he's looking awful paul looks good but warren no i guess she says she's been to bangkok before with her husband to other places in asia she enjoys traveling but not this time obviously he really let himself go you let himself go i don't know i'm gonna have to put in some papers all i've done is go to the prison to see warren talk to the lawyers and think and think think about my divorce that i'm gonna plot jesus christ she said that uh she dashed dashed around shops hunting for an inflatable pillow for her husband hoping that the prison authorities would allow him to have it

i highly doubt it as we'll talk about later on she said one thing that cheered me up at the prison warren is giving stylish haircuts to some of the other prisoners. That seemed to cheer him up, too. Okay. The prison people are giving people flock of seagulls shit over here. Thai guys with like, I don't know if it's kind of Australian haircut. Crazy, weird Australian new wave fucking haircuts. She said the prison people have been very good to us. They allow us to talk for quite a long time.

And although there's a wire mesh between us, I could at least give him a kiss arriving and leaving. Okay, so 1981 comes around, and Nettie Smith is on trial now, as we talked about. Charge of conspiracy to supply heroin. It's a goddamn mess here. The judge here said, quote, he admits before the court, this is about his brother, Nettie's brother Edwin, he admits before the court and before the jury that he has

deliberately given false evidence this okay this wasn't about the brother i'm sorry this was about an associate who got busted with them who then gave up information and then later said that that wasn't true so essentially clouding the waters right basically uh now edwin smith gave evidence and said that Nettie once told him that there were millionaires around the world who had their money in assets. He said that he would be the only one to have it in cash. So he was saying that it had nothing to do with drugs. He just didn't want to keep his money in assets. He would rather have it in cash. That's just how he rolled.

Okay. So that's how drug dealers tend to do. So 1983 is court. 83. he rolled. Okay. So that's how drug dealers tend to do. So 1983 is court. 83. Four years. Yeah. Holy shit. October 12th, 1978 is when they were busted.

October 11th. Oh my God. So they finally, Hayward and Fellows plead guilty to illegal possession of heroin, but Sinclair and the taxi driver both say that they're not doing that. They deny all the charges here so uh wow he said in court the trial comes up and hayward said that he confessed in a to state to police in a statement because they had threatened him with life imprisonment or execution if if he didn't he said that you know he just he just was threatened into it. He thought that he had to do it and he had no choice.

So they had to plead guilty for that. But he said that he's basically the attempted smuggling is what they plead not guilty to, but they plead guilty to possession. That's the deal they make here. Sinclair, like I said, denies all charges. Hayward said in court here that the statement that's in his handwriting. But he said it wasn't true because they said, well, this is your confession. Is that true? And he said, that's my handwriting, but it's not what actually fucking happened.

He said that they told him that he'd never see his wife and children again if he did not confirm the statement dictated by the police. Basically, he said, Major Verrett said, the only way I could get the only way I could help myself was to write the statement. Otherwise, I'd be sent to prison for life or executed. He said, life imprisonment in Thailand meant that I would never be released. He also said that he'd been trying for some time to get a farang, which is apparently a foreigner, executed in Thailand. Yeah, he said, I was so scared. I thought of my wife. She was pregnant again at the time and thought of not seeing her again.

Major Verrett said if I cooperated with them, I would get a light sentence, perhaps only five years. We'll find out about that. So the question, the judge asks Hayward, had he signed the statement because he had no choice? Was he under duress and threats? And they said they were at the police station for 30 days after their arrest interrogated for 15 straight days before they gave a statement 15 days

of interrogation that makes Brendan Dassey look like nothing Brendan Dassey would have jumped out the window saying Wrestlemania if they kept him in there for that long wait for the next one yeah Jesus he said i did not understand it and asked for the australian embassy to have it translated before i signed it that was

refused and it was not translated then major verrat repeated his earlier threats so he said he decided to sign the tape signed the statement that was written in thai because of his family he said he made his first trip to bangkok in in August 1978 and had come with money for William Sinclair from from from Nettie's son. And it's a whole mess there. Basically, they were just given money from one guy to another. He understood that Sinclair wanted the money to buy a house and a bar in Bangkok. So he's saying, I thought I was just bringing a guy money who needed money. I didn't know there was a whole drug thing

the first time I went. I was looking for a liquor license. Yeah, he said, I thought I was doing a guy a favor, just doing my brother-in-law a solid, bringing a dude some cash. He said two months later, Fellows asked him to go with him to Bangkok

and said he had business there involving, quote, a lot of money. He said after they arrived, Fellows told him he had come to buy marijuana. That was the original thought. They were there to buy weed. He was the original thought there by weed. He said, quote, I would never have come if I had known that if I had known that before leaving Sydney, even the marijuana. So they questioned him about the suitcase and everything.

And he said that Fellows had brought the suitcase to his room for safekeeping so nobody would mess with him. And Hayward denied that it was his intention to carry the red suitcase with heroin out of Bangkok and through the airport. He confessed to possession because, quote, it was in my room, which makes sense. So that's what ends up happening there. They are found, not surprisingly, guilty. Very fucking guilty. Very fucking guilty, including Sinclair, the taxi driver. Everybody's found guilty.

Now, the judge here, Thorn Thantraporn is his name. You sound like me. Thantraporn. That sounds hot. Thorn Thantraporn. That sounds like a genre of porn. It's on Pornhub. Absolutely.

Go to the Thorn section there. I want Thantraporn. This is bullshit. Give me the Thantra. He said he was giving Paul a lighter sentence than the others because he felt that he had been used by the narcotics syndicate, which is good. And he said that Hayward's profession as an athlete and the fact that he had no record of previous involvement in narcotics suggested that he had been used, is what the judge says. And he says, you, sirs, all of you, may fuck off Warren Fellows fellows 33 years in a thai prison william sinclair 33 years in a thai prison oh my god taxi driver with the delivery guy 33 years and four months in a thai prison

longest and uh hayward 20 years in a thai prison that's a light sentence that's a light sentence judge judge gave jim Jimmy and me 10 years like he was giving away candy. That's all I can think of for that one. Just him and De Niro and Leona standing there. 20 years. Oh my God. Yes.

The judge also said the court had not believed any of their claims about being mistreated by police. None of those. Why couldn't you just be in the butthole? Right? What is wrong with you guys? You fuck little kids police none of those uh why couldn't you just be into buttholes right what is wrong with you guys you fuck little kids and none of this would happen some of the uh yeah the judge said that a photograph presented in evidence showed hayward in sydney with our with ned smith with netty smith that had convinced him that hayward was part of the gang because he had seen him with netty sm Smith. Never mind that. Whether that's his family, it's his fucking brother in law.

So what's he supposed to do? Whether he likes him or not, it doesn't matter. He said he may not have known all that was going on, but he was a part of the gang. The judge said. Judge also said it was clear that Sinclair had organized the purchase of the 8.4 kilograms of heroin, which had been found in Hayward's possession, and that he had been receiving large sums of money for a long time from Australia, this William Sinclair had.

He was part of a politically and financially influential group which lived luxuriously. Like some other foreigners, he had married a Thai girl simply to make it possible for him to stay a long time in Thailand. Shitbag. That's it, right there. That's it, he married a Thai. Now, Sinclair, he says afterwards, quote,

my conviction is based on statements that are forgeries. I am going to take it up with the NSW premier. So he's saying I'm going. Is that the Supreme Court? It's the Australian. He's going to the, he's going right to the top in Australia. He's going to get to the bottom of this

and they're going to help him politically. There's heroin involved. They're not going to fuck with you. Lots of it. Three million dollars worth. And you want to get to the bottom of this and they're going to help him politically. There's heroin involved. They're not going to fuck with you. Lots of it. Three million dollars worth. And you want to talk to us? Right. But keep in mind, Sinclair keeps going here. Now, Hayward, they asked him about it afterwards. How do you feel

about being sentenced to 20 years in a Thai prison? I don't know what the answer is going to be there, really, other than fuck. But he smiled and said, how do you think i feel i got 10 years less than the others he looked at it as a positive talk about glass half full holy shit he can survive it talk about glass half full yeah 20 years in a Thai prison could have been 33 i guess right holy shit that's a positive cat a taxi driver got 33 four months i'll be all right i'll be fine

they all said they're going to appeal their sentences the lawyers said they would appeal within 10 days now in prison this is what we have to talk about now they're in a thai prison yeah okay uh i don't know if you guys have heard anything about thai prisons in the 70s and 80s but they're notoriously the worst most wretched fucking corrupt basically they're like i don't know what it's like now because Sheriff Joe Arpaio is gone. But they're basically like what Maricopa County jails were up until a few years ago. Minus nice guards. Yeah, I'm just saying. But that is a that's a fucking fact, too.

I mean, like, read books about jails in Maricopa County, and they are worse than foreign jails. The international people that monitor prisons come here more than they go to fucking Honduras. Really? Oh, it's... To investigate this shit? It's so bad here. It's a third world jail here. This was on Locked Up Abroad.

Really? That book I told you to read, that Sean Atwood guy, because he was an English guy, that was Locked Up Abroad because he was in here in a crazy condition. Third world shit. In Arizona. Yeah yeah that's what this jail was here it's and when you read the descriptions from a thai prison it sounds exactly like him describing downtown phoenix fucking no

not the tents the fucking jail the actual building wow yeah the building the horseshoe all that shit that was fucking fourth avenue worse than anything unbelievable just as bad as a thai prison pretty much just as fucking bad food is worse actually though in maricopa canada i've heard yeah i've heard it's not great was the was worse than that so and it's the same thing here if you don't have money you'll starve to death because the only way is to you know commissary is the only way otherwise they give you this shit food that gives you the diarrhea imagine and we voted that guy so many times because we were like he he takes it hard on and this isn't political either this is my somebody i know very very well who uh is a very conservative person voted you know right wing his whole life

and he's a very and voted for sheriff joe arpaio many times and very much so got a dui and had to spend a weekend in jail and came out and said that corrupt son of a bitch, cocksucking motherfucker. Once he got in there, he found out all the vending machines. Everything is a scam. That's all owned by Joe Arpaio's family members.

The whole thing is a honeypot. It's a fucking, it's just a big legal crime syndicate and it's not political. It's not right left. It's fucking disgusting, objectively corrupt and not right left it's fucking it's disgusting objectively corrupt and not corrupt it's just corrupt and uh somehow he got away with that for years and years and now he's old enough where he's just gonna die an old man never having to fucking go into his own stupid jails and serve a day in there meanwhile running and losing piece

of shit election after election afterwards because we now know how much of a piece of garbage yeah well once they got the hold off it was like well fuck that old asshole you know like why in in maricopa county we just got sick of hearing about it if nothing else even if you didn't care about the prisoners you'd be like let's get somebody i'm tired of fucking hearing about this what the shit i'm tired of him causing us money that's the other thing all these fucking lawsuits all right in in maricopa they would talk about they would not give you medical care none basically you'd get like a bad spider bite that would get infected and get a huge thing that would turn into a basically guys guys would have their you have feet amputated right from this type of shit they would say that medical doesn't treat uh insect bites that's what they'd

say so no matter what and then they would wait until wounds would get gangrenous before they would treat anybody and then they'd have to amputate shit rather than just giving him antibiotics a while ago shit like that it's bad stuff man it's worse it's almost as bad as a thai prison in the 80s so within a year of being in a thai prison warren fellows and also paul hayward take up heroin what yeah there's nothing else to do. They're doing drugs in Thai prison. That's it. That's all you can do.

Apparently, it's so bad there that it's like, well, here, it's the same way. Everybody, like this guy, the book I was reading, everybody in there is on fucking drugs. He's like, it's 90% of the people are shooting shit up. Two-thirds of the inmates had hep C in prison, in Arizona prisons. Good God. Over half the inmates have hep c from needles you know that's what i mean like it's they don't even give a fuck so is it just trying to escape their scenario or yeah absolutely they're in prison so that's that's what are you

gonna do i can sit here all day in my shitty cell or i can fucking be high at least i'll be time will go by quicker there's that it's a little more fun yep they would use the inside of ballpoint pens to shoot the needles to use that whole thing and uh and uh if you can google how they do the prison rigs because it's with the pen and everything horrible and all the drugs are smuggled in by the guards of course because they're corrupt and they'll take money just like they'll take 20 bucks for a kiss they'll take money for heroin too. So that's how it goes. Now, in December of 1983, though, both men are found guilty of possession of heroin inside the jail and given an additional 27 months to their sentences. So two more years. Jesus Christ.

Can you imagine that? Heroin is the beginning and end of this goddamn problem. It's fucking crazy. How ironic is that, though? He wasn't even doing it before. And then in 1984, Sinclair appeals. His appeal grants him a new trial, because I think shit's a little corrupt over there. And he's acquitted.

What? Sinclair gets off scot-free. And he gets to go home. Gets to go. He lives there. He gets to leave. He gets to not be in jail anyway. He's got a Thai wife wife that's it so uh that's it and that's all while these guys get an extra 27 months no heroin addicted in a thai prison yeah not great uh fellows and and uh

hayward though they claimed the heroin bust in jail was a setup he says uh quote this is what uh fellows says quote we had an argument with a guard who wanted money he then grabbed at our clothes stuck out his hands and said heroin heroin it's it was a frame so basically if you don't give me money i'm gonna say you have heroin and fucking right you know bust you give you more time with you more time so uh 1985 comes around now up until this time hayward was in the Bang Kuang maximum security prison. Bang Kuang. Sounds so racist.

It sounds so racist. Hey, listen here, Bang Kuang Ching Chong. Come here for a minute. Wait, from where? Fucking Bang Kuang? Aren't you from Bang Kuang fucking Laotian land or whatever the hell you fucking people from down there? Sounds terrible. It does sound bad.

whatever the hell you fucking people from down there sounds terrible it does sound bad this was a maximum security prison where people were testing positive for aids at like a a hiv and full-blown aids at a rate that is just unbelievable because they're sharing needles in there it is not good so paul is visited by a reporter at this point. And this was an article that was out and they reprinted it in like 2017. It's a guy named Neil Cadigan writes this article. And he said he asked Paul, how could you keep sane in here? And Hayward said that he said, quote, I often think I'm going mad. Well, you know what? Let's do it in their own words, because this is from jail.

This is what in their own words is for. Let's do it in their own words. Quote. But when I really get depressed, I tell myself, don't crack up. You could do it. There's others worse off than you. I think, God, at least I'm still healthy. The thing that keeps me going is the hope that one day I'll get out and see my wife and kids again and be able to start all over. I really believe something is going to happen eventually. Oh, boy. Still with the half glass full. He's a very positive guy. Very positive.

He says if they're having an appeal, he says, if this attempt fails, I'll wait another two years and try again. You see the Thai calendar. It is the year 2528. The Thai calendar is different, like the Chinese calendar. In three years, the king will have been on the throne for, I think, 40 years. Anyhow, there will be a big celebration and there's going to be a big amnesty. That's my other big hope of getting out. Thailand, for these celebrations, will do like a big amnesty and let a shitload of prisoners out in celebration of the national whatever the fuck.

That's horrifying. It's an odd thing to do. Let's celebrate. You know what? Let's make it more interesting. Let's mix criminals into this. Here, come on, guys. Get in that parade. Let's celebrate. You know what? Let's make it more interesting. Let's mix criminals into this. Here, come on, guys. Get in that parade.

Let's see what happens. Now, he talks about the conditions in his cell or in his deal here. Quote, here, the foreigners must mix with the ties. I guess he was in a place where they would separate foreigners from the local people. Here, he said, the foreigners must mix with Thais, and there are 27 in our cell. Wait, what? It's smaller than this room, which is no bigger than 40 square meters. So we're talking 120 square foot room with 27 people in it.

You get six square feet together. Yeah. Oh, my God. Let's hear here. Quote, 12 sleep along one wall, 13 on another, and two guys in the middle. That's how they do it. They line, and the whole floor is covered. And then there's the can of water.

It's the toilet. Yeah. You wake up at 5 a.m. busting for a leak, and you can't go because the bloody thing's full. Man, it's pretty bad. There's 27 people in there pissing in a bucket pissing in a bucket uh and if you piss in it it overflows it overflows and then oh my god i blame myself i got myself into this and i'm going to keep fighting through it he does say though he has a lot of sympathy for gail and his kids uh bradley kelly and belinda

one of which belinda he's never seen before because she was born after you know he was born after she was in prison he says most of all i feel sorry for my wife and kids what they have gone through gail has stuck by me she's been great she writes and still and still writes and sends photos i miss my family so much and the football it hurts not being able to see the kids grow up. Bradley's been playing a lot of sports, football on the weekends, and Aussie rules at school. Aussie rules? I don't even know how to play the game.

Me neither, buddy. Me neither. Thank you. Thank you very much, Paul. I reckon I could still have been playing football first grade until I was 30. It's good to get rugby league weeks. I guess it's a newspaper. But I get a little but i get a little depressed you know uh thinking i may have still been playing like some of these guys

i bet i feel worse for the guy who's uh bed because i mean you figure everybody lines the floor there's not a square inch there's somebody by the piss bucket right and if it overflows you just pissed on somebody's bed someone's pissing it splashes oh you're gonna get pissed it's everywhere 27 different piss speckles that is bad yeah that's why i don't go in urinals yeah all over your shoes gee thanks i like my pants and shoes i'd like to be it'd be better if they were covered in speckles of urine though i think that would be and that's somebody else's dick hair yeah no shit now sinclair wrote a book since then because he's free because he's free living a life and he's happy yeah and and fellows and hayward are both pissed about it they said it's bullshit they went out of his way to make himself look clean and all that sort of shit they said a copy found its way

into bang quang he's the uh hayward said quote sinclair's book uh let's face it it was pretty far-fetched he had he really had to put put us down to push his own barrow and try to prove his innocence he taught his talk about the conditions here and corruption was pretty right though because he was talking about the prison shit i don't want to read any more about it the book is in the piss bucket it's in the piss bucket over there it's swollen up reach in and grab a page yeah so this reporter asked him how he's surviving in jail how are you surviving in here he said quote you've got to have money we can't bag this place it would be

self-defeating but it's really bad the food it's rice rolled like oats you can't eat it i don't know i don't know how that works rolled oats i don't know i don't know but it's he says it's inedible it costs about 200 a month extra to live reasonably. That's to get your, you know, I'm sure, hygiene products and food, shit like that. There's a tea lady. You can get coffee, cornflakes, fruit, jam, bread, and Ovaltine from the coffee shop, but I'm out of money. You know, Gail's doing it really tough.

She's on Social Security and can't afford to send me much. Oh, no. I've got three sisters and a brother who send 25 a month each when they can. There hasn't been much lately, so we just don't eat much. This poor bastard. This is fucking horrific, right? Yeah, this is how people were living in Phoenix. You know what I mean?

I kind of feel bad for him. My cousin was in jail in Phoenix. He ended up dying of a heroin overdose when he was 18 uh he was in jail when he was 17 or some shit in the in uh 18 19 in the in downtown here he moved here from pennsylvania to get away from heroin he was growing up in scranton and he was all fucking he was a junkie and he moved out here to get away from it and this is not the place to go if you want to get away from drugs. No, it's not. Got right into it. Got into jail where it was even worse.

Yeah. And he was way more fucked up on it. They let him out. Yeah. And he was just withering away. And same shit, though. He said there's no food. He lived on honey buns when my mother or his mother would send him some money.

He would buy honey buns, and that's all he would eat. That's all the fucking food that they had, pretty much. So, yeah. You get to look Australianian in there that's how it works even if you're italian and from pennsylvania he said you know there's one american here who has a video setup and gets all these movies there's another guy a canadian who was john walker's case partner he's got a hut built that has ties who carry water for him act as servants these guys must be spending twenty thousand dollars a month for comfort so much like american jails if you have money you can be fucking comfortable yeah i mean that's that is the way it works which really shouldn't be the way it fucking works that's wild jail should be the same for everyone

i would imagine right isn't that the point of jail i mean apart from uh your charge putting you somewhere that's worse you know what i mean yeah it should be things that you shouldn't be able to get yeah less luxuries for the worst criminal that's but on par crimes uh how about they get the same life i feel like no matter how rich you are jail should be the ultimate equalizer equalizer that should be the that should be the levelizer level that shit out so you if you're rich and you go to jail you don't have to really live like you're in jail you just can't go anywhere but you can kind of have a better life than everyone else bernie made a shit uh uh jody arias should have the same menu for lunch that's what i mean it should be right forever i don't care it shouldn't be whatever she can get because she got a go fund me yeah

you know what i mean fucking what it is jay pay money yeah so now at this point by the way he's not admitting to the heroin use he's not telling the press this this is just what happened the the article says that there's an electronic workshop and a workshop for making toys and another for furniture but hayward and fellows don't work he says they just drift through the days that's where the north pole is apparently it's in bangkok bangkok prison yeah hayward gets involved in sports he says there's about 20 americans in basketball volleyball and football are played occasionally like actual football football not soccer he said they're all played occasionally and uh he said sports the things he gets into enthusiastically he said they're all played occasionally. And he said sports, the things he gets into enthusiastically. He said they've not allowed they've not allowed us to play for about five weeks, though, at this point.

He said, I've tried to get some league played here, but I can't get enough starters. The Yanks are always throwing the ball forward. Torpedo throws like in gridiron. They reckon I'm not bad at basketball for a little guy, though. They don't throw in the fucking rugby ball like that. He's like, Jesus, stop doing that. See what I mean? It's like a torpedo because it's built that way to go far.

Some guy fading back says Bradshaw going deep. I don't get it. I don't get shit over here, but whatever. He says, be Lin Swan. I'm like, who the fuck is she? No, I'm not doing that. She sounds hot. She sounds hot.

Look at I see a picture he said he got a letter from australia uh there it was from a woman from a christian group he said i get these letters they read a story which was in the paper over there about me being a born-again christian that's broken rule uh i read the bible i believe you get so much time in here and you read a lot i get visits all the time from this missionary woman. She's great. Let's me bang her missionary. No, I'm just kidding.

She's great. You know, she's been through Vietnam and all that. I pray every night since my mother died. Both my parents have died since I've been in here. Yeah. Holy shit. Every night I sit up and pray for myself and my family. I used to pray for my daughter.

Kelly was very ill. That's his middle daughter. They thought she had down syndrome at first which is a what not an ill that's a weird your kids eight should develop down she's got about 101 temperature i think it's down syndrome i don't a weird thing to say but it's something to do with her hearing jesus christ get your shit together come on man said it had ended up having something to do with her hearing, and she had an operation the November before last. I keep thinking her sickness was a punishment for me, you know.

I prayed and prayed. God, I can't wait to get out of here and see them. Just start again. I know I've done wrong. I know it. But it's not fair on my family. Is that? Don't they have free health care in Australia?

I'm pretty sure, yeah. I don't want it. Socialized health care. Jesus Christ. It's also the 70s. They're like, I don't know. She's a bit... She's a bit downsy, ain't she?

She's a bit bubbly, I guess. I don't know. I don't want free health care if my daughter's going to get diagnosed with Downs. We think she's got Downs. It's like, no no her hearing's just bad not the same no doctor her stool's soft that's all that's all it is she has a fever and diarrhea i'm no doctor sir but i know this is not jesus christ now his wife says she's worried about the uncertainty about when paul returns how different their lives would be if he ever gets out she says i suppose i

worry about paul what he may do if for some reason we don't hit it off he might think i've lost my wife my kids my football career for what yeah okay but um oh jesus christ here's another thing the uh um this is crazy that was the day the reporter came to see paul he said paul looked good yeah he looked strong he looked excellent he had a you know i'm feeling positive the next day someone else went to see and then talked to that reporter and had a much different view of what he saw in paul this was a guy who was a former player who is now a quantus flight attendant at the time he said that he stopped by football's got a big career that's a big they don't make a lot of money apparently from from professional sports to a fucking flight

attendant more wine so he this guy who went to see paul told the reporter that hayward was virtually non-comprehensible his hair was shaved and the visit visit lasted just a few minutes. And the reporter said, Jesus, when were you there? Turned out it was the day after this reporter was there. So basically, he knew this interview was coming, and he held it together. And then he fucking went off the deep end the next day, back into heroin and everything else. He said he couldn't even understand what he was saying. He was a fucking mess.

So yeah, they said that had to be what it was. Now, 1985, Nettieith is back in action again here uh more people there's evidence accepted by a police tribunal here that uh that people were planning a police officer was planning to import heroin from new guinea and distribute it through netty sm Smith. This police officer had been dismissed from the force and was managing the Iron Duke Hotel. Okay. And the owner of that hotel was Nettie Smith. So then he was Smith was also run over by a car at this point outside of the Iron Duke on April 2nd, 86.

They reported as an attempted murder by motor vehicle, but they said that there may have been just him trying to throw the trail off of shit. Nettie Smith, they thought it was ended up bullshit. He ended up having just a broken leg and some broken ribs, getting hit by a car. It's not bad. It's a price to pay for trying to throw him off your scent.

Oh, shit. Jesus Christ. That's a price to pay for trying to throw them off your scent. Jesus Christ. That's dedication. Yeah. So he keeps going. Now, fellows, while he's in prison there, Warren Fellows in Thailand, he attempted suicide several times. One time, he says he was locked in a dark room, which he talks about in his book. These dark rooms they put you in that are worse than the hole in America. He wrapped a sarong around his neck and tied it to a hook on the ceiling.

But he he the sarong snapped and he fell. And that was that. He said that was his one. He really wanted to kill himself. He also became addicted to heroin. He said heroin was very easily available in Thai prisons. And it was the only form of escape from what the fuck they had going on in there. Yeah.

He said that, you know he called it an outstanding case of poetic justice that he became addicted after selling heroin basically so february 1st 1987 here um jesus christ this is this is fucking interesting here the a reporter goes to see paul in prison right and this reporter now let me ask you this if you're a reporter and you're quoting someone who doesn't speak your language but is speaking your language in broken english do you report exactly what the fuck they said absolutely in their broken english or do you report what you feel like they're trying to say nope well let's find out what they did there okay so he said he ran into an elderly nurse and blah blah blah and then he says quote What you feel like they're trying to say. Nope. Well, let's find out what they did there. Okay.

So he said he ran into an elderly nurse and blah, blah, blah. And then he says, quote, a Thai warder sidles up. This is a prison guard. Quote, you come to see Paul. He talked to me many times. Tell me once famous in Australia. Big time rugby player. That right? So he clearly he couldn't just he talked to me many times and just add that in

and make it smooth he's like no we gotta let everyone know that he's asian let's make sure he said and then he said we love you long time which i thought was a little weird for a prison guard to say that's how fucking ridiculous it was he said you too boo-koo yeah you too boo-koo you too boo-koo you too boo-koo oh my god so yeah, he's been in there. Then in 1987, Warren or I'm sorry, Paul is he went to the dentist in prison, went to see the prison dentist, but was refused permission by an orderly. He didn't know what the fuck was going on. He demanded to know the reason Paul did. Why the fuck am I being denied dental care? This is ridiculous. The orderly said that the dentist was not treating anyone who had tested positive for AIDS. Oh, no.

Which Paul has. Tested positive for AIDS. Yes. And by the way, Warren as well, I think. But he, we'll talk about him. Paul said, quote, how did I feel when he told me that? Nothing. I was in a daze.

Yeah. I was stoned. I was stoned and shocked. Yeah. shocked yeah he said quote it's amazing since the news about me started spreading around the jail yesterday people have been coming up to me begging for begging me to give them some of my blood so they will test positive and maybe they can get released they must be mad that's how bad thai prison is they want a they want they want fucking hiv because maybe they can get out and back then 87 hiv is a death sentence there is no there's no magic johnson they does not fucking exist this is i mean magic johnson existed traveling across

yeah mexican border trying to get shit this is you got hiv you got full-blown aid soon and you fucking died period there was no bullshit around it they didn't have anything to treat it really the shit they had was weak it was it was interesting uh he said that he's determined to stay fit and avoid falling victim to full-blown aids he says quote tell gail i feel fine physically and i'm going to fight this thing she's like yeah just fight it from there. Yeah. Yeah. They said that he's here. He's muscular and that he does training every day.

He said, though, the meanwhile, rumors here persist that foreign AIDS victims will soon be released under a new Thai law. Foreigners found to have AIDS must be deported. But that's not that's not prisoners. So they don't know what to do with prisoners. Yeah. So that's that's that's how it works, though. If you're a foreigner with AIDS, they would deport you. Fuck out. Jesus.

He said, this reporter said, when I visited Hayward 10 days ago, he was feeling quite cheerful, saying his children would not know him because Gail had put photos of him playing football in the lounge of their home. He added, Gail's had it really hard. After I'd be here a couple years, she wrote me saying she had been thinking of doing herself in, killing herself, that she couldn had been thinking of doing herself in killing herself, that she couldn't go on anymore,

but she said she had to keep going for the sake of the kids. She's a wonderful woman. Jesus Christ. Now, what is worse than all this? Okay. Thai prison, 27 men in a room sleeping around,

piss bucket, AIDS, you name it. Heroin. This is disgusting. All of it's tolerable for 20 years if you really fuck up minus aids minus aids and sprinkle that in it's all fun let's take that back this is when you like you say that he's my kind of guy yeah let's back it up one step here and listen to this story from warren fellow's book okay wow okay by the way he describes in the corner of the room

there's a hole in the floor yeah this is not the bucket room is the different prison corner of the room there's a hole in the floor that you piss and shit into it's just a hole in the floor in the corner okay it's a dark deep nasty dank hole you don't even know where it goes you know where it goes you know how often they clean it it's a sewer in there it's disgusting okay now quote one morning paul squatted over the hole in the floor to relieve his bowels out of the sewer like something from a monster film a sewer rat sprung and bit him oh my god shot out of the shithole, sprung out and bit him. Okay, now there's an old southern term, crazier than a shithouse rat. This is a shithole rat, which is the fucking crazy, a Thai shithole rat.

Thai prison shithole rat. With heroin, heroin shit running through his system. That's why he has AIDS. Dude. Nothing since surviving on Thai prisoner rolled rice oat shit. Yeah. Jesus Christ. With AIDS teeming through it. How do you, at that point you just go, I can't even, what, what is there?

Even shitting is dangerous. Even shitting. I mean, something's going to leap out and bite me. Oh my God. That's terrible. Is that the most terrifying thing you've ever heard in your life? Especially if it's like a princess bride giant oh you know it's covered in shit it just popped out of a fucking shithole too it's covered in shit so it's leaving like little shit footprints behind it when it runs away it's flammable oh fuck yeah so warren says quote the poor bastard

was inconsolable for an hour. An hour? An hour. You're lucky. Talk to you ever again. I would have just been catatonic. No rats. No more.

I don't know what disease I have right now. No eating. No pooping. No eating. No pooping. I'm clearly patient zero. If I don't eat, I won't shit. If I don't eat, I won't shit.

If I don't eat, I won't shit. Just over and over again. That's all he says. I don't have to go. I don't have to go i don't have to go i need to write the write the leader of north korea i need to find out how to make myself just efficient i can do it what is he fearless leader well something like that dear the leader how do you get 100 intestinal i never want to shit again. Here is a documented photograph of what bit me on my anus thigh. How do you get...

On my ass thigh. Wow. Yeah. He said, quote, it had been nothing to do with the pain, but more the horror of the moment. Yeah. Being bitten by the most frightfully ugly animal in the world, which came out of the depths of a dark sewer as he was using it nightmarish in a thai prison in a thai prison so much worse the whole thing's so fucking bad they're stuck in this fucking place with the i mean is this shithole full is that the only way i could imagine why this rat would pop out of there? It's full in here. I need some air. It's overflowing.

So who do they send in? Who else? Paul Calhoun. Shit pipe enthusiast. And he says... How is it you come to arrive here? Jesus fucking christ all right listen guys fellas listen i i claim a lot of things i come out clean your shit pipes i smack your wife right i ain't doing neither of those things let me the first of all smack your cellmate doesn't rhyme right and uh second of all i ain't going near that fucking thing i'm sorry i deal with shit

pipes your shit pipes are beyond clogged, my friend. I'm sorry. I look at it. There's fucking, there's so clogged, there's fucking rats leaping from them. What do I look like over here? You got fecal rodents. This is ridiculous. The smell is so bad, I can't even focus on making another jingle to make this situation work.

I can't. I'm fucking, my eyes are bleeding right now, and I smell pennies and that's it i gotta get the fuck out of here poof and a poof of shit and pipes and he's gone i don't know so yeah that's uh and they're like what the fuck paul come back come back we need you bring your hose. My ass is bleeding. It's bleeding. So December 1988, more Nettie Smith shenanigans here. Finally, after all this, he hasn't spent any more time in jail and everything. Finally, he's arrested for attempted robbery of a hundred and botany council's one hundred sixty thousand dollar Christmas payroll. What is he?

He tried to do this guy's like a comic book villain this netty smith i'll send people to thai prisons and steal from the christmas payroll he's probably sent that rat that's his rat it came back to him and he's petting it good job very good he's petting its little head wiping shit all over himself australian willard yeah willard yeah you got it well finally they have so much evidence on him he is forced to plead guilty in september of 1989 and receives a sentence of 13 years wow so finally you sir may fuck off 13 13 it's better than these guys having nothing because at the same time this is going on in early April and early in 1989, there are rumors that Paul's going to be released and released early. Yeah, he's expected to be released.

He's been held there, obviously, forever. It's announced that he could receive the maximum 50% remission available to prisoners under the amnesty to celebrate the king of thailand 60th birthday just like he said uh but at this point he's trying to say he doesn't have aids too he's like i'm good i'm in the paper here he has an article in the paper where he does an interview and it says quote but hayward rolls up his sweaty t-shirt to show off his fit torso and says quote quote, I ain't got no AIDS. Okay. I want to show everyone. I want everyone to know I'm not contagious. No, you are, sir. I don't want to know.

I don't care what your six pack looks like. He says that he has been he has tested HIV positive, which he doesn't have AIDS yet. That's true. True. But contagious is another issue. You shouldn't be saying that. He says that I'm quote, I'm going to try to live. He says, my father lived until he was 60.

I'm going to try to live that long when he gets out. He says, you know, of course, I worry. Even if you lose a little bit of weight, you think this might be AIDS, he says. So, you know, if he loses five pounds, he's like, the AIDS has taken over. No, we don't say that about Adele. No, that's true. Oh, the AIDS. Well, she doesn't have AIDS. We don't say that about Adele. No. That's true. Oh, the AIDS.

Well, she doesn't have AIDS. She wasn't HIV positive either. That's a good point, but we don't say that. If she was, we'd be like, oh, the AIDS. Magic Johnson knows he has to keep himself pudgy. Right. He was like a svelte player. He's a pudgy fuck since he retired. He's like, I got to stay fat.

Otherwise, people are going to say Magic's dying. Right. But if he stays fat they go look at magic fat as fuck he's living loving it living life man they said that his blonde hair is thinning a little and his fair skin is sunburned like every other australian he said he hasn't even been outside right that's the thing uh yeah he said that he also spent some time in the prison hospital with tuberculosis. Jesus Christ. TB. And HIV.

In the 90s? Yeah. He says, but let's, we'll talk about this. This is 88, 89 actually. That might be actually, I don't think that's tuberculosis. I think he might have had AIDS. Although TB does spread through prisons like crazy. He says, quote, I don't have AIDS. I see my doctor every day.

You know who sees their doctor every day? Somebody with AIDS. Somebody with a very deadly autoimmune disease. What do you have then, sir? Because I haven't seen a doctor in a long time. Yeah. So May 1st, 1989, Paul is released from prison finally. Okay.

They let him out. Warren Fellows is also released in 1989 after the king pardons him. Really? How the fuck that happened. But yeah, May of 1989, a week later, TV networks are tooth and nail fighting for Paul's story. They want the story of this rugby player who went to a Thai prison. And we want to interview you from behind glass. Yeah.

But we tell you,'s a a debate in australia about that time of whether they're going to pass this law that we have where prisoners can't profit from their crimes so they're wondering that and there's a lot of people on both sides one person saying well if people don't people think that they're such scumbags they don't have to watch the shit and then no one will buy those stories that's a good point blah blah blah but murderers are have interesting stories and they shouldn't be able to make money everybody wants to read that but this is a different this is kind of a this one's kind of it's a foreign drug thing so it's kind of different you're not busted by them it's a victimless crime because nobody was

heard nobody was heard at that moment yeah they didn't get the heroin out uh but finally there was channel seven the place with that show that they put they didn't get the heroin out uh but finally there was channel seven the place with that show that they put they know how to market that channel seven uh they said they pay him twenty thousand dollars which is the exact amount of money he was supposed to make for the heroin so either way in the end he ended up getting his twenty thousand dollars he just had to do a decade in prison first and get aid and get aids and be addicted to heroin and ruin his kids lives and everything else here bitten by a shit house rat i mean yeah you can't help but fucking feel bad for this guy i mean honestly poor fuck i mean shit we have a lot of a lot of

these fucking athletes that we do and they're they're a mess and we'll be like yeah we kind of feel bad for this one we kind of feel bad for this one. We kind of feel bad for this one. I really feel like. Honestly, I'm like a toe Nash level. I feel bad, like a Ron LaFleur level where I'm like, no. So, I mean, Dexter Manley has coronavirus. Yeah, this is kind of on par with that. I kind of feel bad. I am kind of. So, yeah, I mean, you got him.

He's got AIDS. There's HIV. His three children. I feel bad for all these people, Jimmy, but not nearly as bad as I feel for Paul Hayward, chief accountant and owner of Hayward Accountancy Services in the United Kingdom. Paul Hayward, director of quality assurance and regulatory affairs in Dallas. Paul Hayward, global integrated marketing leader in the greater Chicago area. Paul Hayward, marketing intern for utah state

university athletics some blonde kid and finally paul hayward who's verified on everything and everything he's a uk chief sports writer of the telegraph so he very much gets mixed up with this guy a lot i would say or an aids patient or yeah they're like how are you still going march 1990 there's a big heroin bust in a hotel that paul's quote walking by when it happens paul it's a it's a pub i'm sorry not a hotel it's a pub 15 people are arrested during an hour raid 20 people were strip searched they were looking for basically drugs and shit like that the raid as the du Duke of Edinburgh and more began at 1130 a.m. They rushed through the doors. They had dogs, all this shit.

Now, this is fucking great. One man who didn't want to be named said he just arrived at the pub when the police burst in. He said, quote, I could hear one guy saying, what are you doing to this to me for? I heard the sound of him being hit with something. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Yeah. When they rage it, they don, they don't answer questions.

Two more people in the bar, an 83-year-old and a 76-year-old, said, quote, they just said, everybody on the floor. And then they saw us and they said, not you two. I didn't feel nervous at all. Take your time, you two. You're good. 83 years old sitting there like, you're probably not on heroin. Now, Paul, he was there he said quote

he was walking past when he saw several police pulling passerbys into the hotel he said not me though yeah i wasn't near this heroin den it wasn't me wasn't i was walking by those poor poor blokes in there uh 1992 one of his friends said that he is working at a garbage disposal company in 1982. Paul problem is he has having a very hard time kicking the heroin. Plus, his disease is getting worse and he has good days and bad days like a lot of people with addiction problems. May 9th, 1992. He has a very bad day. He's at home with his family in in the bathroom about 3 p.m he collapses ambulance officers tried to resuscitate him but he is

announced dead on arrival at canterbury hospital later found that he died of a heroin overdose yeah he overdosed on heroin not even not even, no. Died of a heroin overdose in his own bathroom. He was fighting it. He was fighting it. And he was doing it at home. Three kids and a wife he leaves behind. She stuck unbelievable. She stuck by him for that whole time he got out.

I mean, this was not the person she married when he got out. This is now a heroin addict and everything else. And stayed with him until he died in her fucking bathroom. Poor Gail. Wow. Gail. Wow. Gail is a fucking trooper. You gotta assume that on some level, he knew what he was doing when he was... Fuck yeah.

When he was... He was an addict. Yeah. That's all it was. But I mean, when he was transporting it, too. Yeah. On some level, he had to be on... I'm sure.

Maybe just a little bit for me? Maybe, but I think he was an athlete looking for money. Maybe. That's all it was. I don't think he was even involved in the drug scene very much. Maybe he had a pill problem? Maybe. Back then, I don't even know if that was a thing.

How many years does it take of bashing yourself into people like Rugby to get brain damage? I don't know. Get it by like eighth grade, ninth grade? Or a pain ailment where you require pills? Maybe. I mean, I don't know. He wasn't even 30 yet. I'm not sure.

I think that's more of a... That wasn't... The painkillers weren't the same back then. Oxycontin in the 90s changed the game and all that shit. Painkillers weren't exactly the same, but you never know. But yeah, a newspaper reporter here after he died said, quote, I knew Hayward vaguely in his football days and saw him three or four times after he came back to Sydney in 1989. Awkward, lost, jobless, despite strenuous efforts to get back into the worst workforce and HIV positive.

He was one of the saddest people I've ever met. Paul died alone last Saturday. In reality, though, it could have been said his life ended in 1978 when they locked him away in Bang Kuang prison. Fuck, that's brutal. It's been said his life ended in 1978 when they locked him away in Bang Kuang prison. Fuck. That's brutal. Yeah. He also said that a teammate of Paul's had seen Paul just hours earlier and had bought Paul a couple of beers at a hotel.

And he said that Hayward's quote seemed more positive than he'd been for some time. Yeah. Because he had heroin in his pocket. Exactly. He went home and shot it. He was jacked. 1997. Warren Fellows releases a book,

Damage Done, 12 Years of Hell in a Bangkok Prison. And it's a fucking doozy. We should do a bonus episode on this book, because, dude, it's a fucking, wow, it's all about being in a Thai prison for 10 years. It's fucking crazy. Does it get crazier than a shithouse rat biting you? Want to hear an excerpt yeah uh we i

i had heard of a game once called maha chai a game that had gone on to become something of a legend in prison i never saw this happen myself but i saw drawings the other prisoners had done depicting the game the guards would build a ball out of thatched bamboo just big enough for a small human being to be placed inside there was a hatch with a lock on the outside. On the day the game was to be played, some unpopular Thai prisoner was brought to the yard and placed inside the ball. The guards would push the ball around for a while, just for some fun before the main event. Then, into the yard, they would lead an elephant. Oh my God! And it plays with the ball with a person inside?

The elephant was going to be taught to kick the ball. That's how they were training the elephant. As the prisoners screamed for mercy, the elephant, doing the best it could, would simply tap the ball around for a time, rolling it and its powerless inhabitants a few feet at a time. But elephants are fairly impatient animals, and this would only last for a few minutes until they became bored. Elephants are fairly impatient animals, and this would only last for a few minutes until they became bored. The game always ended the same way, with the elephant bringing its foot down upon the ball, crushing the man inside into a pulp of blood and bone. His last desperate howl is buried by the laughter of the guards. Wow.

Before they sold the elephant to Ringling Brothers Circus. Yeah, absolutely. Holy shit. And then he talks about the dark rooms. He talks about cockroaches, which they sound worse than here, honestly, in Maricopa County. This guy I read about the book in Maricopa County. He talked about waves of them coming over your fucking sheets where it felt like, you know. I believe it. Yeah, insane.

Our palm trees, that's what they nest in yeah palm trees are fucking everywhere and they're all overgrown and down in that area yeah gross well also they don't clean shit no prison so he said there was cockroaches everywhere crawling and everything and disturbing any sleep that you managed to get during the day the heat would bring ants out of the woodwork and if you lay still for a while they'd take you at night the mosquitoes were persistent the thai Air Force, they called them. Everything that lived in this place seemed to be bent on attack.

The most horrifying of all were the sewer rats. As large as small cats, they were easily the ugliest, most frightening animals I've ever seen. They had long snouts like anteaters, fangs and wicked eyes that seemed to glow in the dark. Their bodies were thick and slimy as if oozing some sort of oily sludge they were living in shit they weren't shy and retiring

like rodents back in the cities in australia but were vicious and fearless sounds like a possum they actually hissed at you when you looked at them if you've ever seen jesus if you've ever seen those warner brothers cartoons where a woman jumps on a chair at the sight of a mouse, you'll know something of how 30 hardened criminals looked when one of these rats got into a room. They'd come out at night in little packs and they'd ferociously attack, biting chunks out of you as you slept. It was dreadful. If you tried to defend yourself, say, by kicking them, they were quick to retaliate.

What? You can't even fight back. No, they'll fight you. They're like, oh, yeah, motherfucker. They're not afraid of you. He also wrote in 2000, 4,000 Days, My Life and Survival in a Bangkok Prison, which I don't know if that's like

an updated version of it or what. That's a great book. Can't get enough? No. Buy that fucking book, number one. And also, if you want some Paul Hayward stuff, I found one thing, a Newtown Jets, it's a card,

says he's a 5'eighths not a halfback five-eighths uh he bought a half and got a free one from the dispensary that's nice five not as high not as high and it's a rugby card it's a it's from 19 says 1977 rugby card of paul hayward for 15 on australian ebay so you can buy that buy warren fellow's book holy shit that's a crazy story what a story one of the weirder ones we've encountered here i would say the hurricane yeah that's telling you that's crazy shit right there so uh wow that's wild shit if you like that and if you would not like jimmy and i to wind up in a thai prison yeah you can do your part by giving us a review on apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars it doesn't matter what you say say you're following instructions say you're

following directions it's really whatever you want to do there just helps drive us up the charts if you want to be a bigger hero go to shut up and give me murder.com all sorts of new merch up everything like that get all your crime and sports and small town murder things there also listen to small town murder if you also listen to small town murder if you're not because you're missing out crazy shit hillbillery and panhandlery as far as the eye can see the last few weeks check that out every thursday every friday listen to ps i hate this movie where i make fun of romantic comedies with my wife sarah and we have a blast and laugh and uh till i can't breathe so it's a good time. Listen to that. If you want to be just,

you want to follow the show, let's say you want information. You could, when shows get rescheduled for and shit like that, you can find that very easily. We are at crime and sports on Twitter and Facebook and at small town murder and on Instagram there. And if you want to be just a hero of ours, you want to be a producer who we're going to gush about in just a

moment here you want and also that means you're going to want bonus material which we have a ton of on patreon you can find that or do all that very easily at patreon.com slash crime and sports thank you for everything you do for us or if you want to make a one-time donation you can do that over at paypal using our email address crime and sports atmail.com. That's also a good way to get a hold of us, just like that. And I think I need something, Jimmy. Oh, James. Jimmy, surprise me with these names like you're a rat jumping out of a shithole. Hit me with them, Jimmy.

This week's executive producers are Linda Campbell, Jordan Bennett, Simon Shedd. Happy birthday, buddy. Hey, happy Simon. Happy birthday. Jordan's husband, Christina Ridenour, Connie DeMetsaneri. Nice try. Ryan Dempsey, Crystal Gennaro, Erica Hawk, Lauren Bergen. No, Laura Bergen.

Susan Old, just thanks, Susan. Thank you. Tamara Schlichter. No. Raja Milavarupu. No. Rajamilavarupu. Morris Sparkman.

Kevin Bartlett. Eric Thompson. Vanessa Kors. Kimberly Baum. Devin Bilek. John Moss. What is this? What did I write?

Kaki. Surrett, I think. Casey. I don't know what that is. Josie Davis. Toby Moulton. Greg Ioti. Craig, no, Leslie. Leslie Buffoni. Brent Jorgensen, Audrey Fitzsimmons, Martha Kastentosin, Heather Knight, Katie Wellhausen, Daniel Bilek, Hillary Hoyas, Ashley with no last name, Robert Hudson, Nick Nassaby, Bill Fisher, Hafid Cristobal, May McCorvey, Caitlin Logan, Amanda Davis, Marcin Chuck, and David Lukasik, I think.

Probably not. Thank you, guys. You guys are fucking amazing. Thank you. Other producers this week are Lisa Bilek. Happy birthday. Joey Everly Thompson, Thomas Smith, Travis Marshall, Robin Anderson, Joanne Ahern, James Marder, Colorado Dragonfly, Jude Kendall, Jackie Sukup, Carl Kirshner, Christina Womack, Tricia Lilly, Aaron Davis, Ryan Shank.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Asian letters. That's who it is. Oh, the Asian letters. Yes. I have Chinese house, E, and a G. I love when that came in. I said, you can't even draw that, Jimmy. Never mind. Pronounce it. That's what I did, E, and a G. I love when that came in.

I said, you can't even draw that, Jimmy. Never mind. Pronounce it. That's what I did, is tried to draw it, and it's worse than my pronunciation. It probably says John. Josh Halsema, Christer, Joe Kennedy, Chrissy Sorensen, Ashley Henderson, Reagan Shalkley, Peyton Meadows, Tawny Wyatt, Jennifer Blakeslee, Do It Destiny, Adam Dugdale, Catherine Fellows, Nathan Blaine, Jessica Stacey, Laura with no last name,

Penelope Asaguera, Dick Minge, Lisa Cantor Jacobson, Jennifer Visconti, Molly McCarthy, Joy Pearson, Carla Ling, Cindy Wilkin, Brenda Likovich, Dean Reynolds, Brandon Hummel, David with no last name, Alicia with no last name, Solomon's World, Christina Rauscher, Yaviano Lorenzo, Jordan Cordova, Sean Watson, Jeremy Schweitzer, Kevin Eastman, Elizabeth Rankin, David Bagshaw, Patrick Lau, Susanna Platt, Chloe Carlson, and her partner's birthday is this week. Happy birthday, Ricky. Love you. Ashley Veo, Susanna Love you. Ashley Veo. Susanna Platt.

I said that. Crystal Walker. Lacey Ucherek. U-Shrek. Okay, it sounds hard. It is. Bethany Moore. Destiny with no last name.

Evan Grassl. Kayla Innes. Crystal Meehan. Jesus. Ludo? Not Luda. No, I don't know. Trey David.

I'm sorry. Ryan Covington. John Roberts. Allison Krause. Cruz. Charlie, I don't know. Trey David. I'm sorry. Ryan Covington. John Roberts. Alison Krauss. Cruz. Charlie Shute. Amanda Knight. Molly Stapleton.

Rebecca Anderson. Sonia Smith. Nia Williams-Jones. David Owens. Tracy Poets. Poets. Poets. Annalise Benazie, I think.

Abby Tanner. Sarah Wolford. Robin O'Brien. No, that's Rob. Sorry, Rob. Tally with. Abby Tanner. Sarah Wolford. Robin O'Brien. No, that's Rob. Sorry, Rob. Talia with no last name. Chris DeYoung.

Brad Hash. Or Hash. Kask? I don't know. Those might be H's or S's. Or H's. I don't know. You're all confused. Cody Leversey.

Avon Mergen. Joseph Lusk. King Jaguar. Mary Heist. Rachel Sutton. Ashley White. Kristen Miller. Janice Hill. Amanda Unger. Ethan Palmer, George Warren, Andrea Piersdorf, Laura Taylor, Leslie Marks, Jordan Hall, Sarah Surridge, Brooke Kale, Alina Farika, probably not, Pleno HLN, I hope that's headline news and somebody over there is watching or listening. Jeremy McIntyre, Zachary Swindoll, Sonny Sanchez, Sash, Sassy Richardson?

No, I don't know what that is. Kristen Richardson. So hopefully they're related and she can tell that person that I actually do care. Kyle Parks, Damon, Anne Brooks, Emily Martindale, Jeannie Andrews, Chad with no last name, Samantha Gillen, Bethany Marverlicus, no, Mavronicles? That's probably not right. Karina Whitmers, Cash Broods or Brodus, Hannah Winchester, Brian Call, Jennifer Lee, Sally Blotno? No, Blotty? Hmm.

He gives up. Rebecca Silverman, Liz Franklin. Sammy Joe. Andrew Wolfe. Lacey with no last name. Scottimus Prime. Joellis Lopez. Taylor Brown. Nancy Batt.

Joshua Lawn. Kathy Longstreet. Chrissy Pietzmeyer. Patrick Haggerty. Michelle Perrineau. Taylee Schwartz. Taycee. Taycee Schwartz. Heather with no last name. Mary Townsend. Estrella. No. Estrella. Estrella. Estre Salgado, Zach Halverson, Daniel Anderson, Heather with no last name again, Joanne, no, Jen Papel, Lauren Kristen Kastenbauer, Laura, goddammit, Julian julianne cook james warner aaron kerr uh sarah

are arendelle christy christy baxter amita no yeah amid amid a wall while amita wild laura steel taylor odom anthony litwiller uh mich Michelle Maloney Malone Harriman? Probably not. Drew with no last name. Marshall Howerka? Howerka. Stephanie Martz, Brian Moran, Ray Damond? Demoned? Yeah, that.

Ina Schooner? Doing great, Jimmy. You see me at the end of movies? You're killing it, brother. Yeah, at the end of movies, I'm like, no. Richard Tabor? This one's home. Trisha Mobley.

Caitlin. I'm not giving that a shot. Caitlin Cody. Kat with no last name. Colin Cuffall. Rory with no last name. Michael Hummel. Ruby Schaefer.

Bridget Labadee. Labadee? Lisa Dominick. Dylan Cade. Alex Johnson. Joseph. No, Joe. Cassidy.

Fuck. Jeremy Goodson. Paul Clifford. Hill Dog, Doug, I don't know what I do. Laura Shart, that can't be right. I hope so. A. Brown Brown.

I can only hope. Brandon Neff, Alexandra Pans, Megan with no last name, Monica Clematrude, I think, Candace Pitcher, Sam Azard, no azaro fuck heather heather ballack megan real last name stewart caswell alexandra pans julie crook i think stupid martins i got that one kyle needham uh ashley coran or current uh ed rogers britney dunlap sterling stit letter no stiletto fuck katherine rowe uh zach heinz heather steib s what is this s asia i think s a z a don't look at me it's asia but that it's no it's not one name it's just s and the last name i don't think i i hope i'm confused all right maggie smith uh island elon uh oliver Oliveira, Jim Trask, Troy would know last name.

Sylvia Smith, Rick would know last name. Sheila Johnson, Kara Slavonic, Chris would know last name. Chanel Mendiola, Chloe Ross, Rachel Sutton, Devin Hammond, Dylan Murray, Alicia, Pete, Ryan Gray, Allison West. We're almost done. I swear to God, we're not. Elizabeth Cunningham. No, it's not. Carmigiani. No, Carmignani.

That's not Cunningham at all. Nick Kritzer, Bryson Robinson, Kimberly Wolfram, Daniel Robert, Tiffany Gregory, Chris Lorenz, Victoria Leach, Robin Abler, Danita? No. Yeah. Sharish, Nicole Gonzalez, Shane Hampton, Adam with no last name, Simply Woo, Mark Green, Emily with no last name, Joelle or Joel, Bonner or Bonair or Boner, Riker Grimm, Tony Palmer, boner ryan reicher grim tony palmer elliot 94 aiden tell hey i think everything but the girl wes mitchell kate pantel autumn with no last name sam n david lenker amanda scallowed scallowed brianna roscover p lo samira russell uh elizabeth rap jennifer bradbury, Christopher with no last name, Danielle, no, yeah, Danielle, Danielle, Danielle,

Dominic Chick, Brianna Jarvis, Cherise Yang, Ken Thompson, Stephanie Rogers, Colin and Lindsay, Katie Prevost, Josh Smith, Brooke with no last name, Joe Jeffers, Miles Barron, Chris Garver, Kellyanne, Kelly, Garver, Kellyanne Monias, David Hanson, Dustin Say, Megan Tyner, Nick Spencer, Jane Kish, Jackie Banks, Brian Spink, Orla, Orlia, McDonald. Sure. No. Blanca Fuentes, Claire Koenig, Benita Langell, Mike Beveridge, Casey Hammond, Jesse James, Brian Keithley.

I hope that's the dude that makes motorcycles. Jay Hawkins, Craig Nicholas, Lisa Janine, Ashley Legg, Tammy Joy Schlichter, Mitchell Berkey. That is the second Schlichter. I want them to be an arts family. Is it arts? They're just like, you know what? Art deserved it. Yeah.

Jenna Pridey. Maggie with no last name. Kathleen Schweitzer. Schweitzer. Joseph Voigt. Varna Blocker. Mark Schweitzer. Joseph Voigt. Varna Blocker. Marky Peterson. Ryan Wolfe.

Travis Tessier. Big J LRG. Kim would know last name. Melissa Rosario. Happy birthday, Gianna DeLuca. She's fantastic. Thank you, Gianna. Jason Hobbs.

Jessica. Not Jessica. Norton. Shelly Ann Williams. Kimber Street. Kayla Kovillian. Good Christ. How much is a Kovillian? That's what I'd like to know.

I think in the Sims game it counts as a whole lot. You could buy a whole furniture thing with it. Crystal with no last name. Latasha Campbell, Grant Evans, Sharmell Issa, Dylan Christian, Phil Jenner, Sharon with charmelle isa dylan christian phil jenner uh sharon with no last name jesse medina hugo gregory taylor jeremy jocks jack me hoffer oh i got you bro maybe i will if you'd like adrian kathy meredith king aubrey with no last name grant uh grant white grant with two t's that's a bullshit spelling katie seal with no wait yeah that's her last name pot valley eight deb pinto ashley williams john schiffer is celebrating his 30th anniversary and did it by donating to us because it's in quarantine and he can't take her anywhere thank you

congratulations john and your wife jen vogel uh william blood pamela radford i said and your wife because he didn't tell us her name well that, that's a growing problem. No name. They love to be like, please say something to my wife. And then they go, she'd love to hear her name. Signed, Joe Schiffer. Yeah, thanks. Joe Schiffer's wife. Appreciate it.

The joy of flex. Do you see that? Because there's the joy of sex. Michael. No, that's Kevin Michael. Brandy Perry. Blair Hoffesmeister. No, Homeister. Homeister. Katie Middleton, Ryan Benner, Katie Hules,

Shadow Exceed, Ashley Smotic, Sam Kears, Shelly Steed, Mike Kay, Jessica Newman, Glenn Moir, April Kazier, LaTosha Miller, Owen Brick, Rachel Benson, Austin Kukildal, probably not, Megan Sheik, Christina Carpenter, Ben B., Alex Wickenkamp, Ben Williams, Lexi Lovell, Jennifer Falco, no, Falco, sorry, Tyus Perez, Jake with no last name, Brent Slotug and Jorgensen, Tommy Nash, Justin Mankira, Ben Story, Jed Llewellyn-Lewis. Michael S. No last name. S, I guess, is his last name. I guess his last name.

Jason Kluga. Lauren Klum or Klumbo. No, I don't know what I did. Klum. Klumb? Probably not. You know who you are. Chris Kaiser.

Charlie Butel. Amy Clifford. Travis with no last name. Drew Statham. Aaron with no last name. Nicholas Holt. Harmony Fisher. Phoebe Taylor.

Jenny Lang. Amanda. Yeah, that's the last part I'm going to get right. Soviardi. No. Natasha Jenkins. Jody Rusk. Mike Eitelag.

Sarah Rose. Rose Dugan or Duggan. Erica Honaker. Alicia Storm. Julie Stoltz. Jason McNutt. Gabe would know last name. Demi Wamsley

or Demi, Lindsay Austin Brunton, Jessica Archer, Tim Westcott, Brent Ansell, Rita Merritt, Ann Taylor, probably of those clothing stores. I was going to say, probably. Probably. That's an amazing person. Katie George, Oscar Lundell, Amy Hunts, 44. She sent us a really nice email. Thanks, Amy.

Thank you. 44. She sent us a really nice email. Thanks, Amy. Thank you. Laura Norris, Anastasia Bergmeier, Kelly G., Lisa Robinovich, Emma Scott. I said Laura Norris. Darwin Heron, or Heron.

Ryan Swift, Joshua Kinkmeier. Hinkmeier, probably. Candy Carpenter, Kaylee. No, Kylie. Schlabich. Nope. Morgan Thumel, I think. George Ingram. Duncan Black. Christopher Johansson harrison evers uh giovanni probably fulton well ah poor hey poor giovanni married a dumb white person with a shit

white person probably had a great italian amazing last name giovanni changed his last name to fulton because she it's a girl right giovanni i don't know giovanni is a boy giovone oh giovone is a different name giovanni is a guy probably married a dumb hillbilly maybe yeah that's probably probably derrick adams caroline with no last name jack walker cupcake whoever that is byron woods and all of our patreon uh donators you guys are amazing thank you thank you everybody so much honestly from the bottom of our hearts manators. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so much. Honestly, from the bottom of our hearts, man. Thank you guys for everything you do for us.

It's mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing, and our minds are blown. So thank you guys. We really do appreciate it. Know that it's noticed, and know that it really does make a difference in our lives and the show and everything else. Jimmy, what if they wanted to tell you that you make a difference in their lives? How could they do it? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N

Sucks on Twitter and Instagram. What about you? You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny or just copy and paste my last name and first name, I guess, from the show description and you can plump it in there so you don't have to figure out how to spell a long Italian last name. Do that. Keep coming back. Keep

finding us, everybody. This was a fun one and we have more and more and more and a fun one and we have more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more yeah live from the crime and studios everybody we will see you next week Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.