Crime in Sports - #236 - Is DNA Even Real? - The Bafflingness of Exum Speight

Episode Date: December 1, 2020

This week, we dig into the life of a boxer with 9-39-2 career record? We can finally answer the question of why a guy like that keeps on fighting? But that's the least of our curiosity, considering the fact that the man got away with a most brutal murder, for over 25 years. Only DNA could catch him. But did he do it, or is it a giant conspiracy, involving the LAPD, Leonardo DiCaprio, and The Golden State Killer? You tell us!! Be one of 17 children, raised on a farm, continue to box, even though you lose 4 times more than you win, and deny that DNA exists with Exum Speight!! Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!! Contact us on... twitter.com/[e-mail]/Crimeinsportsinstagram.com/smalltownmurder  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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strange, dark, and mysterious stories on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. Jimmy with the distant yay. Yeah. It's not like you were entering the room. I was running in. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed the last few weeks. Charles Barkley last week.

If you didn't listen to that, you should really go back and listen to that. He's a party. Just that the Milwaukee 2 a.m. parking lot fight is worth listening to the entire episode. Because I don't even know. That was one of the funniest things we've ever covered. It was a brilliant move. It was Mitch Green running a gas station on the side funny. It was ridiculous.

The spur of the moment quick decision was beautiful. I'm going to be the karate kid. So quickly, quickly, if you have not, please get on Apple Podcasts and give us five stars. It helps a lot. We don't know why, but it does drive you up the charts, and apparently that's helpful. So please do that if you have not.

Also, go to shutupandgivememurder.com for everything, all sorts of new merchandise up. Get your holiday merchandise for your special crime and sports or small town murder listener. It's coming, man. Friend or person. It's all around the corner. What the fuck?

I don't know what's happening, Jimmy. I don't know why. It's all so fast. It's so fast. It's already December today. Right now. Quick program note as well. December 22nd, which is three days before christmas

no show that day right it'll be a tuesday we're going to take that week off for our own sanity everyone enjoy your weeks there'll be a small town murder that week because it'll come out on christmas eve and no one will listen to it'll be perfect so of course we got to put one of those out but not on the 22nd no crime and sports that that day. If you would like bonus material, we have it for you. Tons of bonus material. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Last week's bonus episode, it was originally going to be more on the I-5 killer,

but I need a couple pieces of information that I have to, it takes a while to get. Long story. So basically we did a different story. We said since it's something we have to, you know, not do the thing we said we were going to do, we better do the most requested thing we have. So we did Mark Chumura on the bonus episode.

Did you say Chino-mura? Maybe. I don't know. Either way, we did Mark Chumura on the episode. It could have came out like that. So there he is, patreon.com slash crimeandsports. Boy, did we have a ball with the old american chewy there it was a yes good time had by all making fun of him not at the actual incident

so good time for everyone except two yeah and also you will get access to the small town murder bonus material which is uh last week we did thanksgiving day, kind of a history of them throughout time. And wow, is there some craziness. Bountiful. Holy shit. A bountiful Thanksgiving of murder. Wow. If you would like to hear that bounty and plenty more, lots of new stuff, new stuff every other week, you can do that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

And you'll be a producer who will get their name mispronounced at the end of the show as well. And if you just want to have good karma you can do that also at paypal you can use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com that will also get you a shout out at the end of the show you will be a producer that said let's get to this no way this week we're doing something a little different good okay we normally when we do like a boxer or this week it's a boxer, it's the exact opposite of Charles Barkley, basically. Charles Barkley knows nothing but success. Never won a championship, but he won two gold medals, went to the finals as an MVP.

You can't say he's not a successful person. He made $40 million in the NBA for success. Hall of Famer, top 50 of all time. Still on TV. And he's still on TV. No matter what you say about Charlesles barkley successful is is obvious like life has been decent to charles barkley if that's not success yeah i'd love to fail like that that's what i'm saying i would love to fail hard just like chuck just like chuck whereas this person is the complete opposite this is uh he's a boxer and we could say in his

profession he is a failure now that that said he made it to be a professional fighter so that's not a failure he can get in the ring he could kick both our asses i'll tell you that much so i mean he's not a failure like that but compared to the most of the guys we do yeah most of the people we do have winning records. You know what I mean? That's a famous guy. He was a champion of something. Then they fight a guy who's like at one point lost 12 fights in a row.

And you're like, we're like, why does that guy keep fighting? Right. This is that guy. All right. Tell me about Jake Paul. Yeah. Well, he won. Yeah, he's good.

But this is the guy that loses 12 in a row, 15 in a row. And you're like why the fuck does he keep fighting let's find out and let's find out what that causes in your brain oh i can't imagine good things no bad bad bad things happen and uh yeah this is i can't even say this is a death defying episode because it's just full of death oh boy so it's to be fun. Yeah. Enjoy. Pureed brain. Here he is. Exum Spate is his name. Oh, what? E-X-U-M. Oh.

Exum. Yeah. Spate. S-P-E-I-G-H-T. Who did this to him? Exum Spate. Well, there's a lot of the spates in the North Carolina area. There's a few exums, too.

Really? Oh, I found some exums. What? I don't know. Where's that name from? I don't know. It must be. Is it a biblical name,. What the fuck? I don't know. Where's that name from? I don't know if that's, it must be, is it a biblical name probably, I assume? I don't remember that name in the Bible. If it's from, I know nothing of it.

I've read it a few times. That name doesn't ring a bell. If it's from the South, I feel like, and if a lot of people have it, it's probably religious of some, I don't know. I'm not sure. Is it possibly like an old Irish name or something? Isn't Spate, isn't that spelling? That sounds Irish. Well, he's black, so I don't know i'm not sure is it possibly like an old irish name or something isn't spate isn't that is that spelling that's not well he's black so i mean that ain't it i mean but we don't know what the history of his family is where they came from because i'm sure that's not his original

probably not ancestral name right you know what i mean from hundreds of years ago right but now he's xm spade uh born august 1st 1963 and uh man such little known except for he's born and raised on a farm yeah in whittaker's north carolina oh boy yeah this is plural whittaker he is many whittaker many many whittaker this dude is a country motherfucker. Really? Period. I mean, he'll say it himself. I'm just a country boy. And he was a real, raised really country. His lineage, actually, his ethnicity is interesting. He's Cherokee, Jamaican, Guyana, and American. Wow.

So very interesting mix of Central America and Native American and Jamaican also. So there's a lot going on. So yeah, a lot mixed up in him, which is good. We want genetic diversity. We always say that. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's good for the gene pool. It really is.

Diversify. Right. Good for you. So they were making their... When you have a farm you got to make some kids we'll put it that way his mother and father stayed together they're together the whole time running this farm exum is one of 17 children that's why he has that name they ran out of names 17 holy shit children what in one fucking small farmhouse. One woman pumped 17 children out.

That poor lady on a farm. Oh, my God. How many months pregnant on a rural farm to think about that? 14 years of her life. She spent pregnant. Pretty much. Yeah. Wow.

Just straight through pregnant. Holy shit, man. Pretty much from i imagine like 23 to 37 just solid pregnant no breaks oh my so yeah this is what i mean this is a uh his mom's gotta be a tough lady she's gotta be a tough lady and we know a little bit about her thank god this person here we'll talk about there's a book called ringside interviews with 24 fighters and boxing insiders by a guy named david linder and uh he does like a lot of does this boxing talk.com stuff he does a bunch of stuff he's a boxing writer yeah and he did this book of

interviews and he had the same exact thought we did he said everybody in this book and it's all like every huge champion and then you know the major media lar said everybody in this book and it's all like every huge champion and then you know the major media larry merchant and this person and then you know uh roy jones jr and every big file enix lewis all these big fighters are in the book and then he said i have all these big fighters and i wanted to find a guy who wasn't i wanted to find one of these guys who loses most of the time and interview him because nobody ever talks about these guys and blah, blah, blah. And he picked Exum Spate of all the guys, hundreds of these guys. We've got a list.

Thankfully for us, he picked Exum Spate because he didn't know what Exum ended up doing. So it's very, very. But you can't have. That's a genius idea because you can't have Muhammad Ali at 48-3 or whatever the fuck it is. That's every other fighter. But you can't have a fighter like that without guys like Exum. That's the thing. Guys like Exum are the backbone of the business, because these are the guys that, there's these managers that will have a stable of these guys that kind of supply these ready-made losers.

And they're not, they don't throw fights or anything like that. They're doing their best. They're doing their best. They just know that the one fighter's better, and that's why the guy is there. He's there to get another win on the record so they can then get a better fight. That's all it is.

If you want 12 contenders, you've got to have 65 dudes that are absolutely not. Contenders can't just fight each other always because then nobody would have good records and you wouldn't have 20-0 versus 20-0 right there's got to be those 20 guys that they kick the shit out of that don't amount to anything that's what it is here he is here he is so let's talk about this the interview he says we'll let him tell his own story why don't we hear in the beginning he says quote my mother used to tell me about my uncle who was a boxer his name was

thaddeus Williams. He fought pro in the late 20s. I couldn't find any record of this person, by the way. But I don't know if he was fighting in a farm somewhere in rural North Carolina for $40. I have no idea. Or if he's just in the 20s. In the 20s. Jesus, man, he could have been fighting for Candyland.

That's right. We have no idea. Could have been horrible. In the late 20s in the 20s man he could have been fighting for candy land that's right you have no idea horrible in the late 20s in you know in the rural south who knows who knows if they had gloves on we have no idea what's happening he said so i would tell my mother i'm gonna fight one day mama she said boy you're gonna get your head knocked off okay i used to beat up on my baby brother randy yeah that's usually how it starts he was my first opponent my baby brother, Randy. Yeah, that's usually how it starts. He was my first opponent. My baby brother.

He makes him sound like he's two. I like the way this guy talks, too. He has, excuse my voice today. Every tree in back of me is, in Arizona, this is when like trees, fruit trees start to do things. Yeah, they're doing it. And there is literally, we've said it before there's about i counted there's at least 18 different fruit trees that i can see just from my yard right on my back wall flowering their ass off everything from olives to pomegranates to grapefruits so it's

like you're allergic to at least five of these motherfucker enjoy so that's where i'm at right now i have a plant in my backyard i don't know what they are and i went out there today because one of them looks like it's wilt in the smidge everything else has bright yellow orange and red my backyard looks amazing the flowers are incredible and it's fucking no it's december yeah you can't see what is happening this place is a natural die in my backyard my backyard's not a third the size of yours it's just all pollen it's all pollen here i'm surrounded by two of them that's the worst so anyway he's the bastard that's the worst he was uh he's my first opponent yeah randy poor poor randy fighting over waffles jesus christ and apparently they didn't run out of names because they named him exum and they still had randy left because

he's the younger brother that one in there that's a choice yeah exum's a goddamn choice he said he was my first opponent i would practice on him when i was about jesus christ teeing off on his brother brutal his brother must have been tough after a while brother baby brother wonder how much younger though yeah i hope he wasn't like old enough to cover up i hope when he said baby brother yeah i pictured an eight-year-old walking up to a kid like in a bassinet just fucking teeing off on him you're like what bitch what motherfucker it's your hands up put them up what you got nothing mother what you can't even see me over here on the side you can't even turn your bitch ass right in your mouth what's up

that's what i pictured when i pictured or he's like a toddler walking around like a lego in his hand he just comes up what up dancing on him pop pop pop as horrible as that is for some reason that's what i you don't you don't call him your baby brother unless he's a fucking baby brother or you know maybe he's yeah he could maybe he's a year younger that's what i'm hoping for i'm really hoping he's just a year younger maybe he's bigger even who knows so he said he would practice on him when he was about when i was about 10 or 11 my uncle came down to the farm like uncle thaddeus there and he taught me a little bit he showed me how to hold my hands and block punches and throw my jab my mother taught me how to box too his mother remember when we said she's tough mom's probably probably pretty tough pumping

out 17 kids on a farm she's swinging too apparently mom knows how to box as well i'm not even fucking around yeah mom is a badass woman like you do not fuck with ms spate because she will fuck you up it sounds like sounds like she'll beat your ass what was his grandfather wait was his dad his grandfather right was his uncle. I think it was his mom's brother. So, yeah. My mother taught me how to box, too. My mama was tough. She had 17 children all by the same father.

There were 10 girls and 7 boys. Holy shit. I could name all of them right now. Yeah. I hope so. They're your brothers and sisters. You grew up with them. 17 or not.

Yeah. Like, remember being in elementary school? You'd have like 25 kids in the class. You could name them all. one of them if you only spent nine months with them a year next year i'll learn 25 more you mother if you were related to all those kids and they all lived in your house you'd really know their names probably forever yeah i could probably name most of the kids in like my fifth grade class right now first and last name you know what i'm saying like sure feels like all these all these babies were mom's choice like dad would come home from working on the farm and she's in the room motherfucker now maybe yeah

getting another one let's go or she had to learn how to fight so she didn't have 18 right listen we're gonna have to talk about this shit he comes in the bedroom she's dancing back and forth got her hands moving in front of listen bitch you better keep that motherfucking pants on i will knock your head off what's her price this dad what gonna get your head knocked off come get this jab come find out about this hook ain't happening 17 is enough so uh yeah i can name all of them right now i grew up on a farm in north carolina i come from a family of sharecroppers. Okay.

Yeah, this is, I mean, a hardscrabble life. Tough living. I mean, for late 20th century, this is as hard as you can come up in the United States. You know, family of sharecroppers, 17 kids on a farm in rural North Carolina. That's tough. It's a tough way to go. My parents were hard workers all they taught us was to love each other i'm a cherokee jamaican guyan and american yeah

wow i speak patois which is jamaican creole um cherokee and i speak excellent german i speak a little yiddish too apparently this too yeah no no apparently this guy's got some weird thing for languages where he can pick up a fucking language very quick really yeah it's weird because he doesn't seem all that brilliant in other aspects but for some reason he can pick up a language like nobody's business yeah like he knew somebody that he was around was german and he just picked up german and he speaks like good German. Wow. It's very strange.

There are people like that. Oh, there are people that can pick languages up. Yeah, most of the time they're four, though. Most of the time they're not adults, but this guy, you know, all through his childhood, I guess, picked up languages very easily. The serial killer junior from Mindhunters spoke seven languages. That's what he said. Yeah. English was barely, but he says he spoke seven six others and

that's that's when if you look him up that's actually true he claimed people can do my grandmother my grandmother speaks like five languages i don't know how the fuck she does it i said i've told the story she we were in a pizza place and had slavic owners and they were speaking slavic and she just started talking to them fascinating in a language i never heard before and i went what the hell where did that come from yeah they talked back to her they had a conversation they're laughing i'm like what fucking language is that when we sat down she goes to slavic you know enough slavic to tell jokes what's happening here what do you how do you know slavic and she said ma when i was a little girl there's a couple slavic families in my village because back then they were from the

war everybody was scattered so a couple of slavic families in her village in 1942 yeah and so she remembers how to tell jokes in slavic and this was like 2014 she's still fluent enough to to have a conversation with humor in it i was i was the only way somebody that's mexican that speaks spanish is laughing with me is me trying and then laughing at you yeah that's not going that ain't it sir yeah they're calling their friends over to laugh at you all again come on laugh at him it's pretty funny but yeah that was that blew me away i'm like how the hell do you know how to do that that's crazy i must have picked it up in the village when i was nine you know just you know how that goes

picked it up you pick up slavic and you remember it i touched a slavic man now i speak slavic that's how it works osmosis queen my queen midas language of language he said uh when it comes to different languages i can pick up on them real quick it doesn't take me long i graduated high school i went to rit for a while rochester institute of technology okay in rochester new york actually too it's not mit no no it's rit but still i he's got a smartness to him he definitely has a brain that'll go later as we see when he has uh like three to three fights in two weeks you're like yeah that whatever you learned at rit you just lost in that three-week period of getting your head pounded constantly so uh he doesn't have fights where he's like he comes in knocks a guy out in the first round then has another fight knocks a guy it's like him getting knocked out or going the distance and getting pounded for fucking eight rounds wakes up

and introduce him again that's it yeah he said i used to study theology and learn about the scriptures in the bible i was going to be a priest holy shit yeah uh that still ain't off the table well this is the interview he's doing is like he's like 50 years old at this point not off the table okay i don't think you can be a priest he's got kids and shit i don't think you can well you can be something but not a preacher or something not a priest right i don't think you can join a monastery and be a catholic priest if you're like kids and's it going? Yeah, no, I had about 50 pro fights. I've been married three times. I got five kids, but I'm looking to be a priest.

Looking to be born again, be a priest now. Yeah, that's not how it works, man. I don't know what the requirements are, but I assume 50 years old, multiple marriages and children probably is not in there. Just dip it in holy water or blessed whiskey and call it clean although maybe you should because i'm he's probably not gonna fuck any kids you know what i mean it's a good point i mean yeah he might get into some of the ladies that come through there but you know what he likes that we can deal with i feel like that's a that's at least consenting adults so we can all talk about but anyway, yeah. He says that he was up there.

He was going to be a priest. He said, that still ain't off the table, but I've had so many hard fights that I'm pulling myself together. I talk very well for a fighter. Oh, my. I don't stutter at all. I take Aricept to help restore my memory, but I'm very competent and aware. It's just that I don't know what else to do in my life now that i'm not fighting which is a lot where a lot of fighters end up yeah that's why they fight well past their prime because they just don't know what else to do very confident without a stutter i'm very

confident without a stutter but a guy if when you hear his pro record you're gonna go the first thing you want to hear from him is just your brain work so i think that's what he has to tell you right away i'm not not punch drunk first of all okay so let you know and the guy interviewing him and other people that talk to him say he's very he speaks well he doesn't talk like a vander hollyfield or you know you see a vander hollyfield and you're like oh my god smoking joe at the end james oh yeah jesus what the fuck he was fighting 15 round championship fights back i mean hollyfield there was a guy who fought he went the distance most of the time he well when he was on many heavyweights when he was on uh that dick abbott dick dick abbott yeah when i say abbott uh dick cabot show with uh with muhammad ali he

he was barely intelligible there well that's joe frazier was never a good speaker ever before fighting or anything even like people people would know him forever. He was always speaking wasn't his forte anyway, and then you add to that getting hit in the head for 15 fucking rounds constantly, and it's a different deal. And the way he fought, too, he's a short fighter. He had to get in close, so he'd have to take blows to give blows. Ali would back off you and pop you and do all that shit,

but this guy, it was a different deal. Frazier would have to get inside off you and pop you and do all that shit but this guy you know it was a different deal frazier would have to get inside on you hit you with that hook so so anyway he says here um he's very competent and aware he just doesn't know what to do the first time i went into a boxing gym was in rochester new york when i was 16 i was up there staying with my sister i was on the street one day playing football and i saw this truck drive by and it said main street boxing club we flagged it down and this white guy was like what do you kids want we said we want a box he said well come on then they got in the fucking truck and went oh you can't do that no but back in the day that was like yeah you know kids were looking for stuff to do

and wow come on and box he was like dennis wise going through the neighborhood just like we're on a box come on into the gym i'm just thinking of safety you don't just pull somebody over and go says you do this on the side of your truck yeah i do get in get in and they go i mean it's probably a van it wasn't even a truck it's probably a van but But back then, that was considered fine. I mean, we're talking 1979. That's still questionable. He's 16.

Plus, I think, though, if you get a bunch of kids around the street playing football and they're 16 and they're tough enough to where they want to box, maybe they're probably safe in a group. Maybe that's not the kids you want to be. It's probably not the kids you want to be. It's not the ones you're paying for. That's what I mean. Yeah, you're not going to. They're not the the kids you want to be. It's probably not the kids you want to be. It's not the ones you're pandering for. That's what I mean. Yeah, you're not going to.

They're not the first ones you go to molest, probably. Right. They'll fucking knock you out. They're 16. They're not 11. Right. They'll be like, get the fuck off me, mister. I will knock your ass out.

A lot of child killer didn't do that shit. This isn't Dudley from Different Strokes. You're going to take pictures of him in the bicycle shop. This is a different story completely. So, I mean, it's happened,'m sure yeah i'm sure he says the first time i got in the ring they put headgear on me i didn't want headgear but they made me wear it back then i didn't think anybody could hurt me i trained for about a year before my first amateur fight it was at the syracuse dome carrier dome there which is that'd be wild if that's your first fight and you step into place holds like 30 000 people you shit your pants if you walked out of there he said quote

some italian kid beat me on points i had about 30 amateur fights and i won about 15 of them uh when i was 19 i moved to san francisco to find my half brother he didn't wait he's in a he's got a career going and wait he's got no he's got a bunch of amateur brother he just said yeah i'm very confused didn't he say yeah 17 kids all from the mother she said the mother he said my mother had 17 kids all by the same dad yeah he didn't say dad he didn't say dad yeah so this might be dad some prior to had to have been right prior to i don't know going to town getting feed i have no idea if you run a farm and 17 children how do you have time to be banging right getting these side pieces what are you doing this guy's that how's your

dick still wow the multitasking of this man i'm impressed never mind being impressed by having 17 children and knowing how to box and all that the time management of this man is remarkable it really is legendary time management on this guy so yeah he goes to find his half brother he said i also went there to fight i ended up moving to hollywood and i trained with all the early champions at the gym at 108th and broadway so yeah he started out in the right place yeah well just it just kind of all went awry and if they don't get the proper training these boxers that's when they become so they fall through the cracks all of our guys that make it big they all get that one trainer that yeah that figured out how to get it out of them you know what i mean and

we're talking guys with obviously immense talent anyway but if you don't know how to put that talent together a guy with less talent that knows what he's doing will kick your ass in a boxing match it's not about how tough you are was there a lot of uh champions that came through hollywood oh la had a lot yeah la had a lot yeah yeah people train there a lot that was a big deal he said my coaches were roy and destroy and hammond and terry sorrell terry fought george foreman in 1972 i did amateur boxing in california for about a year till i turned pro in 1986 i never fought because i needed money fighting made me feel confident it was something that most people couldn't do see this is where he's really this is where he's starting to parallel stand-up comedy a lot where it's he literally was like i think it's cool that i can go up there and

everybody out there would like to be up there but is afraid to be up there and i think there's a cool feeling in that yeah that's a yeah you feel the reason that people start it's a confidence thing of yeah where you're like everybody out there because you feel that way in comedy you're like everybody out there thinks they're funny everybody's got jokes everybody's told a joke and been funny so everybody's like man i wish i could do that but fuck that i'm not getting up there in front all these people and saying something not not getting a laugh right so i think it's the same feeling with boxing is like i'm i have the balls to get in that ring and fucking fight yeah so that's his that's his kind of what he's getting off on but you also as that person sitting in the audience and then you see that

open mic guy go up and then you go i wouldn't do that because i'd bomb then you're like oh that's what it feels like and looks like yeah exactly and then you see this you're like i don't want to get in there and fight because what if i lose and then you watch him you're like that's what i don't want to happen to me yeah exactly and the thing he he said he was about you know 500 in his in his amateur career. So he's not like. That's not great. He's not destroying the world here.

Yeah. So he just likes the feeling of being able to do it. I mean, who knows? That's not a reason to do anything. I don't know if it's about. Because I mean, also, there's always girls afterwards and things like that. I don't know if he just enjoyed that or if he enjoyed the training. That's not a reason to do comedy, though. No, no. That's a different. Don't you dare different dare no that's a different reason but we you said it earlier

when we started the show before just upstairs before we started the show i told you that remember you know how we always wonder about these boxers that lose all these fights in a row why the fuck do they keep fighting you know what and you're like yeah what the hell why do they do that and i'm like well why do comics keep doing it we've seen comics just banging their dicks into the wall for 10 years 20 years to do that just and we're not even talking they're not even like working at a low level we're doing open mics for 15 years you're like what are you doing why do you keep doing this why are you tormenting yourself it's the same thing it's it's this feeling of maybe it'll work one day i don't know i don't know i'm gonna keep writing that's what they keep telling me to do and it's a habit now to do it so what else do i do

you know that's where their friends are right this is all i do this place has karaoke after the show on wednesdays with all my friends and so i go there beers are a dollar 75 i'll be here every thursday that's what it is so uh yeah he said fighters have to be a certain way boxing actually knocked some sense into my head. I was always a little foolish from the time that mule kicked me. Hold on. I was so hoping you would stop me there. Head, body, where?

Apparently head because it made him a little foolish. Yeah. So I was always a little foolish from the time that mule kicked me well watch vacation get kicked again you'll be fine you'll be fine that's what i mean i wonder if like the mule and this is a weird thing but sometimes maybe it kicked something else in his brain that made him learn languages quickly and easily though i mean it's seriously knock something else out of whack but put something else right where it needed to be listen the brain's very delicate you never know who knows i don't know people have like a brain tumor and all of

a sudden they can do like weird math and shit like it just presses on the right part of their i don't know you jam a screwdriver through your eye and jiggle it around and all of a sudden you can walk around fine that's true that happens they do that shit too i tried did that a couple weeks ago that's a lobotomy though i mean yeah they just jam it in there and they mix you up a little bit up a little yeah and then they wake you up and send you on your way it's like a table side caesar salad but a little bit different so weird so uh i'm more attentive now than i was before i boxed so he's saying that boxing he's saying the more things hit him in the head whether it be farm animals hooves, or other men's fucking fists, it helps his brain focus better. We'll take your word for it.

Sure. That's why you're on crime and sports, sir. Okay. Probably not. You must have really been fucked up. Yeah. Well, so he is an amateur. Like we said, he speaks.

He wins about half of his fight about half of his fights somewhere in here by the way in the early 80s before he because this is when he's in california and he's doing amateur boxing somewhere in here he ends up in jail at some point for some for a theft or a theft or stole a possession of stolen property something of that nature he does a little bit of jail time in california for that but not enough to derail him really just you know a few months in county or whatever for some lifting of some sort it was some minor i don't know what it was but it was a it's something to do with a theft and a stolen property got an issue so it wasn't a violent crime or anything like that so he makes his pro debut here on March 25th, 1986

at the Country Club in Reseda. So he's there. He fights, obviously, fights David Graves, who's a guy who's 3-0 coming into the fight. So decent. He finishes his career 9-5-6. So he's a journeyman here. And he says that Exum saysum says quote i remember it like

it was yesterday okay we fought at recita country club of course we did yeah david graves was a top amateur nobody fights six rounds against a top amateur in their pro debut i was just a country boy from north carolina so yeah and uh he gets beat on points so Exum's pretty tough as we'll see he doesn't get knocked out like KO KO'd TKO'd because that's the rough stop in it but he doesn't get knocked out very often he's a he's got a good shin he's a tough guy which makes him a decent opponent because you can hang in there and give the guy a few rounds even if they're really good except if they're like Vladimir Klitschko who he he fights later. Really? Yeah. And as you know, if you've seen boxing in the last 15 years. Vladimir's a monster.

He's a monster, yeah. I think he was Vladimir's second fight. Really? Yeah, it was ugly. Taylor Swift is soaring high. Her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans. She's broken billboard records and made Grammys history. Not to mention becoming

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So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that. Bing! The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face.

I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave a low okay so not this is not a so this is a period classic Judy did you sleep with her yes your honor you married his cousin his brother that's not him yes ma'am I would make a beeline for the door. The Emmy Award winning series returns. How did I know that? I have a crystal ball in my head.

It's an all new season. It's streaming. You can say anything. Judy Justice. Only on Freebie. So March 29th. So that is 1986. March 25th,th 1986 he doesn't have another fight for over a year so he makes his pro debut loses and then doesn't fight again for a long time which is a

strange way to enter boxing we don't see that very often he's got a manager at this point and because he is in the very low levels of things and he's not like one of these guys that sets the world on fire with talent, he's not one of these guys where, oh, shit, did you see that guy punching? And then some big manager wants to manage him. Just not the way it works with this guy. So he's a different manager.

Guy named Douglas Stumler is his manager, who sounds like a real... That's a boxing manager with a day job. Yeah, well, as a real... That's a boxing manager with a day job. Yeah. Well, as a matter of fact, yeah, he had been managing Exum since late 1985. And also a McDonald's. No, but you know what? You're not that far off.

He's a native of Indiana who moved to Los Angeles. He graduated from the University of Indiana, and then he moves out to la and uh he is he works for the uh housing authority oh that's what he does for a living he works for the government yeah he works for like the um yeah like the housing authority like the city basically and so he works there and then he's at night he's a boxing manager that is a weird dichotomy there yeah he's like a skinny like lanky skinny white guy who does that. It's a weird, it's a very strange deal. He's out inspecting new builds and then, I'm going to go manage these boxers.

Yeah, I don't think he just does like paperwork. I think he's like an office person for the housing authority, Los Angeles housing authority. Like it's just, yeah, very, very boring sounding day job. And at night it's going to be exciting. He's going to manage boxers. So that's what happened. Apparently, Spate actually lived with him for a while here while they were training and trying to get fights and shit like that. I guess he's putting his money where his mouth is.

I'm going to make you a star. Trust me. You can sleep on my couch until it happens. That's how confident I am. It won't be long i already know it i know it so um yeah he uh one thing about stumler that i found is looking him up through the newspapers i did find in 1977 july 17th to be uh exact he wrote to the louisville courier journal in uh why can't i say louisville courier journal i could get i could get one correct word out it's the o's and u's yeah louisville courier journal yeah it's that's weird it was all fucked up so he wrote there

to the editorial section to complain about indiana state uh and their basketball they're not in the state sir he well he, this is it. You said that Indiana State University, that Indiana University, not state, Indiana University recruits Ray Tolbert, Steve Risley, and Tommy Baker didn't distinguish themselves against the Kentucky All-Stars.

And you asked if IU coach Bobby Knight has had the same kind of recruiting year he had in 1976. Let me remind you that one of Knight's 1976 recruits mike woodson led iu in scoring and was barely beaten out as a top 10 scoring champ he was a freshman i think woodson then this year's recruits will lead iu to another ncaa championship god damn it he didn't say god damn it but he says the rest of it so he's a nightmare douglas l stumler

2009 bono road new New Albany, Indiana. He's got opinions. And that's him, I found. Looking him up, he's from New Albany and his middle initial is L. So it's definitely him. Wow. So this is the guy we're talking about. He's very...

Fire and brimstone for sports. But he's really into Indiana University basketball. He went to the university and wow, is he into basketball. because he went to the university, and wow, is he into basketball, which actually is a big thing that kind of, a big part of this case is that he's really into basketball. Really? Yeah, as we'll find out.

About mid-March of 1987, this is a year after Exum's first fight, Stumler kicks him out of the apartment. Oh? This is in the 1200 block of La Cienega Boule siena boulevard in la so that's where they live so he ends up uh kind of couch surfing here at this point axum does going around because he was staying here for quite a while with stumler and apparently uh stumler uh you know time goes by a couple weeks this is mid-March, he kicks him out. Then March 29th, 1987, Stumler is with a friend, hanging out that night, does some social shit, socializing, returns to his apartment alone. It's a Sunday night. Later on that night, that same friend called him and he didn't answer his phone.

So the guy said, oh, maybe he's asleep or whatever you know whatever i'll talk to him tomorrow but a couple days go by specifically the next day goes by and uh the it was part of the ncaa championship and indiana was in it oh so he's supposed to meet with all his friends and watch the indiana game this is like this is everything to him this is as we saw he's pretty fucking passionate about he wrote that to a newspaper right think about that in another state he no that's where he's from at the time because he went to indiana university but it was written to the louisville national oh to the kentucky but that they're all right there though yeah but it's over there they're all yeah kentuckyana it's all the same shit it's all the same they don't consider it another state it's all the same shit it's kentuckiana that's what it is there it's fucking gross sorry guys pennsyltuckiana pennsyltuckiana

pennsylvania is separate of all that stuff they're like you can try to include us but no we don't do that that's you guys yeah sorry so uh but this him not being there is like what the fuck where the hell is stumler man this is the game's on what the shit bobby's already on the court yeah so he doesn't show up and they ended up winning to the hoosiers oh is the other thing missed it and uh he doesn't show up and his friends are like okay that's not right his one friend says quote they knew something we all knew something wasn't right at that point so a friend of his went to Stumler's apartment and knocked on the door, gets no answer. They found his car is in the parking lot, but he's not answering.

Didn't come to the Indiana game. We got problems. This seems odd, right? So he goes down and gets the building manager, his friend does, and says, you know, explains the situation. Let's do a welfare check on my boy here. Explains the situation. Can you let's do a welfare check on my boy here. And so the manager agrees to do it, which normally a lot of time a building manager go and call the cops if you want a welfare check. But no.

So they find they walk in the apartment and they do find Douglas in the apartment. Problem is he has been beaten, stabbed and strangled. Oh, boy. Yeah. The cause of death. I can't. they call it multiple causes of death like anything any of these could have done it strangle the strangulation the stabbing or the beating could have caused it it's just there's a lot happened to him uh yeah uh the

the homicide detective at the time detective jackson whose name will come up later in a we have the one of the craziest conspiracy theories probably out there ever i mean there's a lot of crazy conspiracy theories in the world this one is amazing there's a few it's wild do you remember that small town murder we did where the lady was like listen there's that hat of mine right the person that has the hat blew up a bank and like this whole crazy thing it's that level crazy yeah it's why mark firman's involved it's it's seriously it's insane it took two days for me to understand you meant what for real did you two fucking days i sat here after you called me an asshole for not understanding a new york accent and i was i was like farrell what is farrell what will farrell and then two days later somebody tweeted me a picture of farrell and i'm like at the grammy's with the hat i was like i don't know why will farrell would

have been at the grammy's with a hat i'm not sure did he play like uh what's his name the what the fucking there you go i was gonna call him dudley doolittle that's what we did last time yeah fucked it all up it's not gonna help anyhow so this uh detective jackson said quote there was evidence of a pretty violent struggle that stretched across the apartment there will there were multiple causes of death including strangulation and stab wounds this was not a quick thing somebody was angry somebody was angry and really took their time and just i mean had a field day with this guy i mean it was all over the apartment apparently the murder scene was not limited to even in a room it was all over the place beatings stabbing

strength i don't know what happened but it was a brutal thing it seems like something that another someone in another apartment when i fucking heard yeah apartments are small i mean that kind of life and death struggle over the course of a whole apartment yeah somebody banging on the floor shut the fuck up up there i'm trying to sleep jesus i'm watching the indiana game shut up so uh multiple causes of death he's a uh yeah he was a counselor for the los angeles housing authority that's what he was he's um he's from new albany indiana i see as i have his uh his uh obituary here so there's that he was buried in the graceland memorial park mausoleum really at the craft craft funeral home i don't know where that is i don't know either what is this what are we talking about here oh it's new albany it's back indiana so there we go now the first person they look at

is exum spate yeah exum he's a roommate he's a physically an imposing dude oh he could do this that could dominate douglas physically and you know get this job done he's got motive he got kicked out of the fucking house sure there's a lot of stuff going on here and the the beating severely was a big part of it right there was other suspects too though because he had other boxers he was dealing with and stuff so there was a lot of kind of people in and out that we didn't know what ended up happening here but spate is their main the guy they're looking at to the point where they bring him in they question him multiple times homicide detectives sit him down he takes multiple polygraph examinations multiple polygraph examinations and we most of the time what they're doing with a polygraph is they're

trying to eliminate people right rather than they're not accused it's they are looking for that sometimes if they get the guy they think it is and that's the thing then it's all kind of subjective because it's kind of what do you want me to find but for the most part it's let's let's thin the herd if we have a hundred suspects that's not going to work so let's thin the herd if we get five whose answers were a little shaky then we can go look at those five but the other 95 we know and don't want to waste time with them so he passes multiple polygraph examinations about the murder about everything there's no they don't know what to do they just they throw their shoulders up and say must have been somebody else and they kind of push him aside as a suspect which multiple polygraphs i mean yeah what more

can you do you got no you don't have the physical evidence on him and he says he didn't do it and then he passes multiple polygraphs as a detective you go okay well how long could you beat the same door down if it's not opening to walk away from this one yeah at some point you gotta go okay that's not the guy and you walk away so um exum continues his boxing career in may of 87 he's at the showboat hotel and casino in vegas yeah which was the same time that awa was taping the wrestling there so i wonder if he that place has been popular he could have uh he could have crossed paths with wrestling which would have been hilarious so imagine him crossing paths with wrestling maybe it'll happen who knows so uh he fights marcellus allen who's four and oh coming in and 13-2 in his career.

As you might imagine, he beats Exum by points. So Exum starts out 0-2 for his career. That's not good. It's not great. Not wonderful. He says, in my second fight, I fought in Las Vegas at the Showboat Hotel. I lost on points to Marcellus Allen. He was another undefeated fighter. I was like, what are these guys trying to do to me?

They were trying to find an easy fighter to beat. He said, but I wanted them to start treating me better. I was four and two for a little while with these promoters, these handlers. They tried to piss in my face and tell me it was raining. He's so Southern. That's a great, yeah. He's hilarious. When you start fighting, you get a mentality that nobody can hurt you.

You get mad and you want to prove everybody wrong. If I could rectify it, I would have done things differently. Yeah, fought guys that couldn't beat you at first, probably. October 2nd, 87, he's at the Kezar Pavilion in San Francisco. He fights Walter Stark, who this is his debut. And his career, he finishes 0-2. Okay. So Exum knocks him out.

So there you go. 1-2 for Exum. Hooray. He's got a win, everybody. December 17, 1987, Centennial Hall. He fights Gilbert Valenzuela. 3-0-1 coming in. And he knocks him out, too.

Great. So Exum's 2-2. Yeah. He got to 500 baby this is awesome making of a you know another mike tyson coming up here so uh this is when by the way he makes a transition here from cruiserweight to heavyweight at some point because he has a problem he's fighting cruiserweight and he has a problem making weight really so then he just becomes heavyweight yeah he gets smart and those guys are a little faster, too. The cruiserweights are faster.

Yeah. But I mean, if your power, though, if power is your game, you're thinking, you know, you'd rather not try to knock out a guy who weighs 190 pounds than someone who weighs 230. Right. And the punching power coming back at you is way less, too. Right. But if they're faster, you don't have time to regain your feet to throw that power anyway. Exum's a tweener.

That's his problem. He's not quite a cruiserweight, not quite a heavyweight, and it shows in his career. But if you can't make weight and they're faster than you, just fight heavies anyway. You got to. So January 23, 1988, he fights again. He fights Tim Silky Jones.

Yeah. Silky. Silky doesn't deserve a nickname. No. Silky is two and nine coming into this fight. You don't get a nickname coming into this fight you're not silky and he didn't turn it around either he's two ten and one for his career silky one because he's soft yeah he's very he's getting his ass got a high thread count that's his fucking deal that's silky uh this is a draw this fight okay so he fights silky to a draw oh boy silky smooth draw it's two two and one for his record now next uh november 4th so he fights silky to a draw oh boy silky smooth draw it's two two and one for his

record now next uh november 4th 88 he fights in san francisco versus edgar uh guevara this is his fight his debut in boxing one and three career for him and uh he wasn't supposed exum wasn't supposed to be in this fight that's the the thing here this was a uh he's a late replacement i guess it wasn't till the night of the fight that uh that edgar guevara found out that he wasn't fighting the guy he thought he was fighting that day they told him yeah you're not fighting him you're fighting this other guy named exum spate he's won his last two fights by knockout enjoy he's like fuck what this is bullshit you can't do that to people yeah now exum who had to rush there tried failed to show up in time for the weigh-in okay because he was rushing there they just called

him we're like can you fight tonight he's like shit yeah so it's not how boxing works they train for fights right this is why these guys lose a lot it's not comedy because the feet are over that's what i mean you get down there you've got a set all locked and loaded. But this guy needs to be in shape. It's a different thing. So he says, I guess he didn't get there in time. He's fined $75, which is probably half his fucking purse. And I guess he reportedly weighed 200 pounds when he entered the ring.

Spate did. So it's too heavy for a cruiserweight. And the result here, Spate kicks his ass. Really? Yeah, he beats him in two rounds. And the guy was pissed off. Oh, I'm sure. He said, that certainly isn't any way to develop young local talent.

In fact, it's a good way to kill it. Absolutely. There you go. TKO win here. So he's 3-2-1. He's over 500, Jimmy. He's doing it. He's doing it.

December 15, 1989, Solano county fairgrounds in vallejo he fights terry verners who's four nine and two coming in finishes his career 8 26 and two verners verners yeah not great not the ginger ale not the it's not vernor's it's verner's i knew you were going ginger ale though i thought because that was my first thought too it was the ginger ale man there he is is. Terry Ginger Man Vernors. So this fight goes the distance. Okay. Exum wins it though.

He's four, two, and one. Wow. Grace. This is most certainly Grace. More wins than losses and draws combined. He's fucking killing it. Four, two, and one. He should have retired right now.

Grace. march 6th 1992 i don't know if you noticed that that gap was a small gap uh december 15th 89 was his last fight yeah to march 92 three years later three years later really got a bask in the afterglow of grace the well he's got to really feel it. Yeah. Yeah. Look at me. Just walked around telling everyone he's 4'2 and 1 for two years. Everybody, yo, I'm 4'2 and 1. I'm a pro. I'm going to kick people's asses. I'm on my way up.

So, yeah, he's 4'2 and 1. This is definitely grace. There's almost a three-year gap here. I don't know why. I can't find out. I don't know if he was in jail. Based on the way he lives his life, it seems like he might have been in jail. He was up to something.

Or something was going on, but I can't find it because you don't get... They don't advertise. There's nobody in the newspapers who are putting out big articles on a guy who's 4'2 and 1 and has no future. They get arrested. They don't care. So that's what happens. So this fight, he fights Ernest M don't care. So that's what happens. So this fight, he fights Ernest M16 Mateen.

Oh. There you go. He's getting fancy. This guy's a real fighter. 4-0-1 coming in. 30-12-3 for his career. So it's a good fighter. He loses by unanimous decision.

Exum does. 4-3-1. Next fight is at Harrah's in Atlantic City. It's on April 7, 1992. So now he's going to start. He's got to make that $100 a month off of this or whatever the hell he's making. He's got to get his feature salary. Rent to pay.

Got to rent to pay. He fights Gerard Jones, who's 9-0-1 coming in. 25-2 for his career. So this is a TKO loss for Exum. 4-4-1 1 that's a bummer that I don't know who that guy is that seems like a good fighter

he's a good fighter there's so many good fighters that you've never heard of that's wild you ever heard of Honey Boy

Lou Del Valle no but I do like it there you go he's his next fight here in October of 92 this guy's 6-0 coming in

36-6-2 for his career what was what was uh ali he was like 48 and he was 58 58 58 5 and 1 maybe some shit i mean that's a that's a very fucking respectable oh that's a really good record 36 6 and 2 is a goddamn good record i mean you're not muhammad ali you're not but there's like seven guys who have these amazing records. You win six and lose one for your entire career. It's pretty good, yeah. It's great.

You're not Joe Louis, but that's not bad. You know what I mean? He fights, like I said, this fight here. Probably not going to go well for Exum, let's be honest here. He says that Del Valle, by the way, is known for being the first guy to ever knock down Roy Jones Jr. That's who. So he's got some pop in him. This fight, Exum says, quote, I had to lose three pounds before the weigh-in.

Yikes. The night before, I had some plastic on, and I went running to get the pounds off. That's not great. Like you put saran wrap around his belly? Yeah. Oh, boy. That's bad stuff, man. You're not going to be strong after that.

That seems desperate. It seemed it's also not good for you. He says it made me weak, but I didn't want to forfeit the fight and have to pay them the money. If you forfeit, you have to pay. He said Lou is a southpaw and I didn't know how to fight southpaws. Never been trained to fight. I mean, this is his training isn't there. We don't know.

Who knows if he had if he was trained properly maybe he'd have a much better record but you don't send a guy in to fight a good up and comer who's six and oh who's a lefty and he doesn't even know how to fight lefties that's just not the way you do fights how do you get to be a professional and you only can fight i don't know 80 of the population it's just rare yeah left-handed boxers are much more rare is it 20 you think no it's less than that is it less than it's less than that and in boxing it's just not that big there's not that many and also guys avoid southpaws because they don't have they don't know how to fight them that well it's a good way to get a cheap loss is to fight a guy who's less good than you but you don't less good not as good as you but you can't you know fight him so less talented less talented he said he hit me with a left hand and i went down i got

up and the referee asked me where i was i told him madison square garden he was at the paramount theater in new york which is madison square garden so is it he's yeah it's the one of the oh it's one of them the felt forum paramount they're all in there he said my knees sort of locked up on me and he said come back and fight another day because he has knees then he buckled his knees it was like yeah no you're i know where i am but i'm hurting you're in a side room and no so tko lost for him four five and one next fights at the palace in auburn hills so this is uh when ron artest isn't using it to fight this is where they he fought he fights richard action jackson who we've talked about before because his name is Action Jackson.

And I love that his name is Dick Action. Dick Action Jackson sounds like. It's pretty good. It sounds like an action figure with like a dick that does things if you pull his arm down. Yeah. He gets like a big part on. Also, every porn actor has now blown it if you did not pick that name. You should have picked that

solid name it is he's six and oh coming in also he's fighting only six and oh guys this guy 22 and four for his career yeah good fighter never heard of him other than this show uh unanimous decision loss for xm four six and one next fight he fights leo paco nolan and uh he comes in four and oh this guy 27 and two for his career i was gonna say i think i know i think i've heard of that guy i'd like to know who he's fought because i think i've seen it before good fighter uh unanimous decision loss for exum of course four seven and one and uh basically he said that nobody was looking out for his best interests and that he's he's getting mismatched he's getting put in yeah they're also really good fighters also somehow picking guys that are going to be fine for a career.

Yeah, well, they're all up-and-comers, and then he's the tomato can X him. And it's like, Jesus, what am I? He's not old enough to be a tomato can at this point. You do that to a guy who's 10 and 10. You don't do it to a guy who starts out his career. It's 4, 2, and 1, and you start putting him in against these killers. That's not right. So, yeah, he said that he just wanted to prove everybody wrong and didn't do a good job of it now june 12th 93 he fights in pittsburgh leroy seals who's one and oh coming in finishes his career three and one okay i don't know what happened he figured it out this is his

loss though exum beats him it's five seven and one uh june 25th 1993 he fights uh quiet man john ruiz you know john ruiz is right he's still fighting he fought holyfield like three times he's he was the uh first uh uh mexican heavyweight champion okay here he's uh still fighting still i think he stopped finally but he was fighting well past when he should have been fighting yeah he fought till like 2017 I don't like that no it's yeah think about it he fought till like right if you fought in the 80s hang him up yeah it's 93 and he was 13 and 0 at this point coming in he ends up being 44 9 and 1 for his career that's great but yeah Ruiz is a he's a really tough fighter he's really tough and he

beats obviously Exum with a unanimous decision 5-8-1 for Exum and uh Exum says quote Ruiz had a big forehead that's his first line about him Ruiz had a big forehead he was tough man real tough he was in condition I was in shape but he was in condition there's a difference your body looks different when you're in condition it's hard to build your offense with with ruiz he held me a little bit he knew how to hustle the rounds he knew how to make the judges give him more points ruiz is a good gentleman he's real real humble so yeah he's a good boxer he knows how to work that that's the thing these journeymans not not that Ruiz is a journeyman, but these guys that are kind of pros, they know how to milk it.

They know what to do. They can really frustrate a young fighter or a guy who's inexperienced really easily. February 5th, 94, here, he fights Brian Special K. Smith. Okay. Why? I stopped and looked at you after I said it like, yep, let that settle in. Where's the K come from? You didn't get that.

There is not a K in either of those words. Maybe that's why it's so special. Bryant to Smith. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Three and two coming in, this guy is. This is another loss for Exum.

Five, nine, and one. Next, he's at Caesar's Palace in Atlantic City. That's something. He fights a guy with a nickname where I want to kick him in the balls for it. And he's a good fighter, too, so I don't know if kicking him in the balls would be a good idea. He's a 14-0 guy coming in, finishes his career 19-2. So not bad, but John Andrade, who calls himself the American Dream. You're not Dusty Rhodes?

Shut the fuck up. I don't want to hear it. And what's his name? John Andrade that's doesn't sound very american well he could be american why not no my last name is petra gallo i'm not american no you're italian but i'm born here i'd be the american but he's not the american dream that's dusty roads goddamn you so anyway he beats the shit out of xm either way so there there's that. Exum loses. Next 94, March 6, 94, he fights.

That's five days later, by the way. He loses by unanimous decision. So the fight goes the distance and then he fights five days later. My God. Yeah. Fights at a Catholic youth center in Scranton.

That feels like it was for charity. No. No. That's what WWF used to do. Like, there are sea shows there in the 80s at those catholic youth centers and shit hilarious 1500 people can fit so this is versus tommy quinn who's six and three

coming in so not bad this one xm actually wins it somehow but a split decision so another oh no he's fought two full fights in five days right that. That's crazy. Well, even crazier, two weeks later, he's fighting again. In this time versus a really good fighter. What did he get? World class. Chris Bird. You know who Chris Bird is? Chris Bird's a lefty, first of all.

He's a southpaw, and he's a really, really smooth, slick fighter. I think I do know him. Did he fight Tyson? I don't think he fought Tyson, but he used to fight on HBO all the time time showtime like in the late 90s early 2000s he was on all the time he looked like his body he looks kind of softish he doesn't have like a ripped body but he just like that's the way i remember that's the guy to fucking worry about man he was just a smooth ass mother he was really smooth and nasty chris bird he He's 2-0 coming in. His career record, though, 41-5-1. Wow.

And he is no joke, too. He's a bad motherfucker. This goes the distance, but Bird kicks his ass. So, and I love his quote about it, too. I tell you what, let's do it in their own words here, because this is about as good as Exum gets. Yeah. I would love to be so honest about anything here. He says, in their own words quote

chris beat the shit out of me i used to train with chris and his dad he told me before the fight you know i'm gonna beat you x him we work together all the time i couldn't do anything with him he was so fast you saw him when he fought the older klitschko you saw how slick he was he was a bad motherfucker and yeah he's chris beat the shit out of me he was like that was hilarious that's cool and he knew he was gonna do it he's like you know i'm gonna beat you dude like we fight all i know you're best i've seen it i'm much better than you obviously so come on so he fights again in may of 94 he fights jade the jewel scott yeah and he's 17-1 coming in, 25-3 for his career. So guess what?

Yeah. He beat Exum. Of course. Exum's a solid 6-12 at this point. My God. Jesus. This is where it is. You read that stat and you just go, no.

No, stop. This isn't your thing. Stop. Do something else. Nope. He keeps fighting. In August 94, he's at the foxwoods in massachusetts fighting shannon briggs oh really shannon briggs is a guy with the dreads yeah he's a really good fighter

he's awesome he beat george foreman really he's not a yeah he did he will fight yeah he's a good i follow him on instagram he is written you know he's a super uh weed proponent now like i would see it just by looking at him he looks like like a lot of Xboxers are doing that. He's doing great. A lot of Xboxers like weed. If you have pain and head fog, it's good. So, yeah. Shannon, he says about this fight, quote, Shannon Briggs with the dreadlocks.

That guy was real strong, real physical, real good balance, I noticed. He beat George Foreman. A lot of people think Foreman beat him, but I've seen that fight three times. George is massive, but Shannon beat him on points. Before the fight, they told me not to mix it up with him to stay on the outside. How was I going to stay on the outside? I had to come at him. He was taller than me.

I tried to bob and weave and get under his shots, but he got me. He's big as shit. He's a big and he's a really good fighter. Yeah. What are you going to stay on the outside? So he jabs you all day long and you just get pounded to piss like that he likes to go into uh uh gyms where the where the contender or the heavyweight the champ is at and he likes to fuck with him he just hackles him he screams at him come on champ he's great tries to tries to

get him to fight him out without a purse what no no sir see this is my job yeah he's like i want to pay zeo like yo do a podcast no no yeah do i have ads on that climb in here with me let's talk about patreon thank you no then what am i doing it's my job that's shannon briggs that's what he's doing so he whoops his ass it's a tko loss obviously, obviously. So his next fight is versus Terry McGroom, who's 10-0 coming in, though. Ends up 19-9, so nothing special. But 10-0 coming in, and he beats the shit out of Exum. You notice a pattern here? Yeah, makes Exum a bride.

Yeah. May 5, 1995, he fights Vincent Boulware, who's 27-8-1 coming in. Yeah, guess what? Beats Exum. Of course he does. You know how this is going, right? He fights Vincent Boulware, who's 27-8-1 coming in. Yeah. Guess what? Beats Axum. Of course he does. You know how this is going, right? June 19th, 1995.

He fights James House of Pain Stanton. Oh, no. Come on, man. If he comes out to jump... 1995. You can't anymore. No. First of all, it's three years out of date, and if he comes out to jump around, he should

be banned from the ring. So, James House of Pain Stanton stan 14 and oh coming in though not bad and uh he beats the shit out of axon yeah so as you see this pattern emerging that's what you call a white guy that's bald you know what i mean yeah what's up house of pain it's not a few house of pain yeah that's what you say pretty much it's a joke you don't use that serious house of pain it's an insult at that point maybe he thought you know what maybe he doesn't even wasn't even into oh he's never heard it never even heard it never even heard it everybody asked him that you big fan what yeah what they're like yeah jump around asshole and he's like what are you talking about why would i do that i'm gonna fuck you up i'm a boxer and he punches them so uh yeah that's how

he got into the business he hit a guy who happened to be yeah in the business and they were like you get pretty good kid next thing you know there you go he jumped in the van and he went down to the gym so uh july 26 95 he fights sam hampton who's eight and two coming in and he knocks out exum so exum is six seven is six 17 and one right now this is not good this is going very poorly yeah august 24th 1995 versus howard alston 10 and one coming in lost by decision how do you how do you do how do you show up why do you keep why do you show up is a better word october 17th 95 he fights.O. Morris, who's 14, 11, and 1 coming in. So calm down on the K.O. Yeah.

And he can't even K.O. X him. He beats him by a decision. Oh, my. So 6, 19, and 1. Next fight is against Samuel Mbenjob, which sounds like a sexual move. It does. M-apostrophe-bend-job. Yep.

Mbenjob? That definitely sounds like some'm really good at a sexual thing trying to figure out what it would be and i'm gonna have to come up with that later but my bend job somebody's bent over for sure there's a bend in there that's what i mean i feel like it's definitely from the back trying to figure out yeah you know the orifice involved i'm not positive those curved dicks and that's his bend job maybe it's maybe maybe that's what you gotta well then you'd be giving him a bit i'm a bad job wouldn't you i don't know you bend over and take his my bend job maybe that's what he asked you he's like yo man or lady or whoever he's into and he's like uh about him a bend job he whips it out and there's

no other way to do that it's bent can you can you bend can you bend and give me a bend a bend job so uh this is he he beats the shit out of x and beats him so there's that if you don't know when crystal pepsi was discontinued what was in al capone's vault or which famous meteorologist is lenny kravitz's second cousin, then you haven't spent enough time on Wikipedia. But that's okay. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden, and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole, from SmartList Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you've learned that that's the science-y term for eardrum.

We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster as we start out on a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. That didn't take much. Yeah. So November 18th, 95, he fights Jeff Lally, lost by decision.

Yeah. Again, December 1st, 95, what's's his name imamu young ben mayfield he goes by young ben is his nickname because the first name is fucking imamu so it's yeah it's harder to get it young ben young ben's eight and one coming in and uh he beats up old exum at this point by uh decision so december 7th 95, in Philly, he fights Terrence K.O. Lewis. If you're thinking about calling yourself K.O., it's been done. Retired.

In boxing? Probably. Two of the last six guys he fought are K.O., so it's enough already. So Terrence Lewis, 12-1 coming in, 32-15-1 for his career. And he does K. him, so as advertised. Nice job. I mean, you know. Fuck it.

Good work, sir. Can't get him for false advertising. No, you know. He did it. KO, that's right. Either I'll get knocked out or I'm knocking him out. February 96, he fights Christoph Bizot. Oh, boy.

B-I-Z-O-T. So I assume it's Bizot if his first name is Christoph. Probably. Yeah, he's 15 and 2 coming in. You want to see this guy now? Kind of, yeah. Like, I'd fight this guy. Put it that way.

I'm sure he'd kick my ass, but I'd fight that guy. Oh. He's like a balding. Yeah. He's in shape. Sort of. Yeah. He's in shape like a guy in the 70s was in shape like he's not fat but he's hairy he's hairy from clavicles to belly button tons of chest hair his head hair is not doing no it's all down there it's very but i mean he's got some definition in the shoulder right i mean he's a big guy he's over 200 pounds but he doesn't look like a heavyweight

no tender i'm not i'm not shaking in my boots no i don't know that i'm gonna fight yeah you're probably gonna fight him at the bar but you know you wouldn't bet on him either if he was if you told me uh three months train and fight this guy for a sack of cash i'm in yeah i'm not that scared exactly well this is a dq loss i don't know what the fuck happened here but he loses by maybe he just gave up and kicked him in the nutsack i don't know what he did he just he lost it he couldn't take it anymore so yeah he's 624 and one at this point man if you're that bad at your job you don't show up anymore right i would think not it's fascinating you can't get fired from boxing you can't it's impossible they'll let you keep doing it well

most states and we'll talk about a lot of states will not let you do it yeah based on your record they're like we're not gonna let you fight right you're just gonna go out there and get beat up and a lot of states won't let you do it good uh march 1996 larry prather he's 12 and 12 coming in and he beats the shit out of xm wow um april 16th 96 at the Big Kahuna Nightclub in Wilmington, North Carolina or Delaware. One of the two. I don't know which one. He fights David Izaguirre who's 17-1 coming in.

Finishes his career 23-1. That's a great fighter. That's a good fighter. Good record anyway. I don't know who he fought. Well, he fought Exum and he TKO'd him here. Exum is 6-26-1 right now. I don't get it. Why? I don't get it.

July 7th, 1996, ABC Sports Complex, Springfield, Virginia. He fights a guy I actually know of. He fights Zuri Lawrence, who my stepmother's father was here. My stepmother's father is his trainer and manager. Five-star boxing in Beacon, New York. He's dead now. Yeah, he was his trainer, but he was in his fucking corner. He was fucking holding the spit bucket,

fucking telling him to go out there and beat that bum's ass. Rubbing Vaseline on his face. Yeah, he was his manager until he died. Yeah, Jim Fredericks was his name. Yeah, until he died, Zary Lawrence. I remember that was his big guy. He went over to Europe with him, all this type of shit. Yeah, he had a gym. He built

a gym in the yard. He built this structure that was like the size of a two-car garage in his yard in Beacon, New York there. People fought in it. That was his gym, five-star boxing. He had a shitload of fighters in there. He had good fighters. Zuri

Lawrence was a decent contender. His career, he was 24, 15, and 4. Decent guy, but he was doing it for 30 years he's had tons of different guys and as a kid every time he went over there it's i'd go right into the gym and fucking oh i loved it it was the greatest want to hear that pop oh it's the greatest thing in the world plus you got he had a fucking ring yeah he had a real ring so like i we got went right to the top rope i mean it was in the ring i liked all the boxing outside you know all the bags and everything but then in the ring it was all we're going wwe i learned how to bounce off the ropes and fucking seriously come off the top we used to i got to

play in a ring when i was a kid all the time it was great i could climb a turnbuckle and come off it like macho man savage when i was a kid i I was so fast at it. Just grab the top, spring yourself up. It's awesome. So anyway, he fights Zuri Lawrence, who beats him, obviously. Good job there. Good for him. He did it. Good work.

Your family created something. Good work there. No losers. So at this point, he's 6-27-1, XM is. I can't imagine. And he has lost 15 fights in a row. Legitimately just lost 15 straight fights that's a lot what the fuck are you doing forget everything at the beginning whatever you did right even you can discount all of it because you are oh and 15 you just lost 15 straight fights man

like why do you stop at 10 wouldn't you go double digit in a row i'm done 15 and you keep pressing if a pitcher lost 15 games in a row he's traded and fired well i mean yeah i guess well there was that guy it depends on pitching is different because you can get a loss and and have throw a great game i suppose you can throw a gear you can throw a great game come out a guy gives up one of your runs and then your team doesn't score shit and they rack stuff up you got a loss you're done so but it's hard to as a batter if you strike out or don't get a hit for 15 straight at bats it's a slump you're gonna go find a slump buster right i would think so you better hurt that's like three games though three games maybe four if it's a no hits out of four games that's but it happens a lot but boxing is different You've gotten beaten up 15 straight times.

That's three days, 15 straight fucking at-bats. That's nothing. This is 15 times you've gone to a ring and another man has beat the shit out of you to a point where other people have judged him the winner. Or you've been physically unable to continue when one of the two. It's like, you know, it's a lot. Taking the will to go on out to take just

drained it from you so they said in this interview the guy asked him throughout 1995 all the way to 1996 of august of 1996 you lost uh 14 fights in a row what was going on with your career at that time and what compelled you to continue boxing best question of all time right that's why he's doing this article and it's great he said quote i had a reputation as a guy from the farm i came out to the big city to do this and i didn't have a manager a lot of the times i was a road fighter i was always on the road i never had a home i would sleep in hotels i knew a lot of promoters around the world they had numbers where they could get in touch with me and they would call me if they needed someone they just needed a warm body for their contender to beat the shit out of

he wasn't being trained he wasn't being managed he's just going out and getting beat up just a tough guy who got beat up that's tough i can't think of anything that i would have to fail 15 times in a row and then keep doing it there's nothing i would do over the course of like two years this is like this beat up this is a pummeling constantly you've been knocked out you go the distance so yeah he said uh when i fought i would hire a second and a cut man there were times i'd show up uh at a fight and i wasn't supposed to fight but they had to fill up the card so they put me in like stand up but boxing like i said you got to be prepared for that right you

don't know if he i just ate a big meal like i'm not ready to fucking fight like you got to be ready to fight yeah it's a big deal the other guy's been training for two months and you're just going to step in there so naturally they thought i was there to make their guy look good a few times i was asked by promoters to take it easy on their guy or some bullshit easy are you crazy is he gonna go easy on me right you're trying to kick my ass this isn't like this isn't basketball where yeah i'll let you go oh good move and you'll go by me a couple of times taking it easy means me getting punched in the face more fuck that that's what that means no you're not beating my ass he said i didn't have a winning record but i was

crafty sometimes i beat one of their, but they would give him the decision. It was so dirty. They would treat you like a whore. That's comedy. That sounded exactly like comedy, but they would give him the decision. It was so dirty. They'd treat you like a whore. A lot of people were taking money from me.

Managers and promoters sometimes signed my name for me on the contract jesus christ they would have me fight a heavyweight and sometimes i'd fill my pockets just so i made 200 pounds what you'd have to make weight for heavyweight if he sometimes if he was under his jam shit in his pants he's a tweener so yeah you put a fucking lemon in your pocket or something make your you know weight a couple of extra ounces i don't know that's that's wild that's crazy man uh so i'd make 200 pounds people ask me why are you fighting these guys xm i knew i was getting mistreated but i wanted to prove them wrong i wanted to show them i could do it i always thought that it would be my night i felt like shit when i lost he really thought he could do it he's like

i could turn it all around tonight it'd be magical imagine if i beat shannon briggs man that'd be amazing yeah it would be but you're not going to it'd be fucking incredible that's the difference um not ever there's never he's trying to hit the lottery yeah that's what i mean it's like wow imagine if i scratch tickets imagine if i was just better than i am yeah and it just happened maybe you know what happened? Maybe last night while I was sleeping, fairies came, magically sprinkled me with boxing dust, and today, I don't know why, but I'm just going to be better.

Maybe it'll be like angels in the outfield today. They'll show up and they'll be grabbing my hands and making them work. Fucking Tony Dan's little croak and it'll be fine. Everything's going to be great. So, you know I always felt like shit when I lost it wasn't something I ever got used

to even when I lost a bunch of fights in a row I remember all my fights I remember who I fought and where we fought my family thought I was gonna get hurt or handicapped they were

worried that one day they would have to take care of me and put me in a home but I survived all of that yeah so August 96 in louisville he fights sean process server sean process server he was just there to give him a paternity suit and he's like oh fuck i gotta get punched uh he's an oh and five career fighter coming in oh my and for his career he's oh and. Because Exum knocks him out. Retired him.

He wins. Knockout win. 7-27-1. Yeah. He did it. And Sean was like, if I can't beat him, I can't beat anybody. And he retired. Yeah.

If you get knocked out by him, it's over. Yes. You retire. Yeah. In shame. August 16th, so a week, 10 days, 9 days later in altoona pennsylvania he fights tom dialing who's six and two coming in and he wins this fight too oh two in a row two in a row he's hot oh boy he's hot that's a streak oh baby lucky seven got a one dollar winner a five dollar winner

throwing them that'll keep you playing that'll keep you playing right there. 8-27-1. Look at that. September 7th, 96, he fights Michael Goldrush. That's his name. Michael Goldrush. Okay. Yeah. Michael Rush. Yeah.

Gold. 10-2 coming in. 27-7-1 in his career. And he beats the shit out of Axum. So, you know. October 12th, 96, he's in Sao Paulo. Oh. He's getting out of the country.

Yeah. Look at this. Down to Brazil. South America. He fights Jose Dinamita Gomez. uh october 12th 96 he's in sao paulo oh he's getting out of the country yeah yeah this down to brazil south america he fights jose uh dinamita gomez okay so 22 and 1 coming in this guy and 24 and 2 career and he's from down there so exum's getting come he's he's getting brought in to be sacrificed before the home folks basically and it's a unanimous decision loss for exum next he fights in the brewery breweries thunderdome in louisville jesus christ october 30th 96 he fights kurt allen to a draw 8 29 and 2 oh no this is goddamn awful november 14th 96 in allentown he fights art bayless who's a 10 and 10 fighter yeah 14 and 14 for his career and uh apparently this fight it was at the days in in allentown oh boy pennsylvania oh no my god that's just depressing that's that's like the allentown

song level depressing that's depressing that's no good and they're fighting here the Allentown song level depressing. That's depressing. That's no good. And they're fighting here in Allentown. And the Days Inn isn't set up for that shit. Why are they fucking doing it? Fuck this song. Never mind. And Billy Joel throws his shit away, pushes the piano over. Can't take it anymore. So apparently...

I am going to start the fire if you guys keep fighting. I will start. This whole town can burn. I don't give a fuck. So this guy, Art, apparently Exum opens up a huge cut on him early. Oh, and I mean, they're saying, like, it was a blood fucking ref had blood all over him. Everybody had blood all over them. It was a bloodbath.

But this guy ended up hanging in there, coming back from an early cut and just fighting a very conservative fight and beating Exum on points. What? So he said, everybody said it looked like Exum got excited, like, I'm going to win one. And then the guy just locked it down. He just calmed down from the cut.

Like a fighter does. Like a fighter. November 30th, 96, he goes to Austria, and that's because he's fighting Vladimir Klitschko. Oh, you're going to his turf? Yeah, who's probably the best heavyweight of the last 15 years, roughly. I mean, I haven't followed heavyweight boxing as closely as I did before that,

but he seems to be the best of the last 15 years. He is 1-0 coming in. He's a baby. Beginning. Baby Klitschko. For his career, he's 64-5. Is he really bad bad man known as mr steelhammer is his nickname very tough man is what we're talking about here um very very tough he says they asked chris about or uh x him about it and he says quote vladimir was tall and i was

as tall as i don't know what he says when i see he's like six six he's huge he says when i saw him i was like whoa this is a big guy that's not how you want to be introduced to your opponent holy shit who brought ivan drago over here jesus christ he said uh uh this is a big guy i knew who he was he had just won the gold medal on tv he looked smaller than he did when i saw him you know as his fists were pummeling me a lot different uh he said he was kind of stiff but he hit hard i worked with vladimir and some other european fighters after that i tried to help them bend their knees and be less of a target not so straight up when you stand straight up that's european styles a little

more straight up you ain't got no rhythm when bend your knees, your arms are longer and you move better. Yeah, it's just fighting. The Klitschko's have a different regimen than we do. When we sleep, they're working out. Those guys are in condition. They're fucking machines. And this is a second round TKO.

I mean, flat amuse. Yeah, this guy, he's a future champion and Exum is not. This is his 31st loss, so it tells you a lot. so next we bring up a guy named jim holly who will be his manager for a little while here jim holly was a fighter as well uh his career record was 5 and 55 oh wow not good uh it landed him suspensions in six different

states based on he's not gonna they won't let him come there and get beat up basically that's he's suspended for being a shitty fighter he lost 55 of 60 fights that's not good that is terrible um yeah they said you're a danger to yourself in the ring we're not gonna let you die in our ring right so um and that doesn't include basically because he then becomes a a trainer and a manager and his stable is all tomato cans it's a tomato can stable he his business is guys who are 5 and 55 to supply those guys because that's a business yeah if you're a manager and you have 30 of those guys you can make a pretty goddamn decent living here and they're making 100 bucks here and 100 bucks there off these guys they're fighting every night basically for you so he says that uh you know for he did this for a long time he ended up being in uh ashtabula ohio here that's where he was and that's where he finds exum spate

exum ends up in ashtabula and uh this guy kept trying to fight which is just hilarious put it this way he they said that he never left his house without a scale. If he'd go to the mall, he'd take his scale with him, and if he saw anybody that looked tough, he'd throw them on a scale and ask them if they want to be a boxer. I'm not shitting you. Just pull it out of his backpack. He would pull a scale out.

How much do you weigh? You want to fight? You know how to fight? You tough? That's what you would ask people. Yeah? Come on. And then he would fucking put him in the ring with Vladimir Klitschko.

It's fucking insane. This is how this business works, man. He said he became known as the, quote, how much you weigh guy. He said if you had two arms, two legs, and half a brain, he could train you. That's what he would say. He could train you to go out and get your ass kicked. He said, quote, I had just about everyone in this town fighting. You walk down the street today and you'll run into four or five guys that used to fight for me.

They're probably looking for you. Right. You need some money. Once he even recruited a girl off the side of the road, it says here. He was driving down the highway, and he noticed what he called a sturdy-looking young woman standing next to a broken-down Ford Escort with the hood up. So he pulled over and didn't say, you need help with this car. He pulled over and said, how much you weigh? You know how to fight?

pulled over and said how much you weigh you know how to fight maybe you ask do you know how to fight before you ask a woman how much do you know how much you weigh you know or do you know how to fight yeah okay i won't ask you the second question how much you imagine you're just okay ladies yeah men too because this would be just as ridiculous for a man but ladies especially imagine your car broke down yeah on the freeway. You pull over. God damn it. Steam's coming out. The engine's up.

You're standing there waiting for AAA or somebody, a highway patrol that passed by. And a guy pulls over. You're like, oh, good. Maybe he knows something about radiators. And he goes, hey, how much you weigh? You know how to fight? Would you be like, what? What do you know about foreign escorts?

Do you know how to fix them? Those are two questions edmund kemper asked girls too probably yeah how much do you weigh cupcake how much do you weigh you know how to fight do you get in the back of my coupe she she answered quote hell yeah i can fight which her answer so that's a tough or that's just a chick with a with a it doesn't want to get abducted bet your ass i can fight especially when i got this switchblade it's a chick that's seen a couple episodes of dateline hell yeah i can fight she lowered her voice and shit bet your ass i can fight mister you bet my dick i can fight that's what i bet my balls yeah you bet my balls on it so hell yeah i can fight her name is greta daniels and i ended up finding her actually oh and five career pro record first she did her jobs yeah

that's what she was supposed to do she can't fight very well though no she's supposed to go out and get beat up and collect a paycheck and give him some of it that's how it works and then she realized what was happening and left because women are smarter than men she was oh and five and she's like i get it is enough i see this racket i'm leaving oh i get beat up every time never mind i thought this was like a thing so eventually he was managing more than 30 fighters he had a ring in his yard um using but it wasn't a real ring he used a garage door plywood and old carpet for the flooring a garage door garage door and like yeah see like the ring that my stepmother's father had that that was like a real room like ropes and turnbuckles and like the things in the pad instead of all the way down the corner and there was like a thing on the

mat it was like really nice it was cool there was a lift master on some plywood he just threw some shit down and was like fight each other on a garage door i took it down for you don't worry but try not to like jump up and down i'm gonna put it back when i'm done so i need a dense in it it's cold in the winter and that side over there has the glass wow yeah watch out for that nobody go over to the left side of the ring garage door plywood and old carpet what the fuck he finished it off with canvas donated to him by army by the army surplus store and rope from a feed outlet oh my god yeah no they're supposed to be cables not ropes this is scary yeah that's the thing most boxing it's cables so he said quote we trained on that for seven years my god oh my

in the winters we'd head down to the y you know because i had to take the garage door down so needed it for the garage again then i had to tear it down when my granddaughter was born and i put up a swing set swing set instead there you go his front porch was like there was just tons of guys hanging around just people come over there wanting to box a bunch of wannabe boxers he said there's nothing else to do really and he was just ready and he said quote i was just trying to get kids off the streets which that's you know that's nice but to have them be beaten up by better fighters for that um they'd earn about a hundred dollars a round if a hundred dollars a fight basically for their shit fights on a casino show though you make more money really casinos pay

money that makes sense casinos pay they don't pay based on ticket sales they pay you for an event right and then they give away that most of the tickets to right people so it's not i'm here to gamble yeah you're bringing that's why comedians do you wonder why why does that great comedian why does jim gaffigan go around doing casinos because they pay him a fucking fortune because he's got a mortgage and he doesn't have to pay worry how many tickets he sells that's why they fucking do that exactly why and it'll still sell out as kathleen madigan always at those things she could sell she could sell it anywhere she wants but she can make twice as much money if she does it over there at that fucking casino that's why she's doing it and it's so much more respectable than a cruise ship exactly it's exactly right people can actually get to it if they want to so uh if

they got a casino though they'd see like 2 000 about basically you'd make more money and then an overseas fight you'd make like three thousand dollars win or lose really just to go over there because they just wanted an american fighter over there and you know to get one it costs a few bucks so uh you know sometimes they would be okay as a matter of fact uh the uh uh exum spate was one of his prize fighters because he won this next fight, which was on the USA Network. Really? So, yeah, he actually won a fight that was on cable television that everybody saw or you could see if you wanted to. It made this guy like, holy shit, look at me.

I got fighters. So this was January 17th, 1997 versus Iceman Lyle McDowell, who was 18-3-1 coming in. So he's supposed to win, period. 28-15-1 for his career. But XM TKO on him, so it's his ninth win. He says, this is how this happened, the question was, in January 1997, you defeated heavyweight Lyle McDowell via second-round TKO. Going into the fight, your record was 8-31-2.

So fucking embarrassing. It's so bad. Don't repeat that, sir. I didn't hear that part. This was a dramatically different result than you normally produced against an opponent with a respectable record. That is the smoothest way you could put that. How in the fuck do you pull that off? How did you beat a guy who wasn't in a wheelchair? What happened? with a respectable record that's that is the smoothest way you could put that rather than

fuck do you pull that off how'd you beat a guy who wasn't like you know in a wheelchair what happened like how'd you do it because you usually get your ass kicked by anybody on two feet is why i'm asking it how'd you beat an able-bodied man yeah how'd you do that who actually throws blows somebody have like a were they like in the middle of like a like about a lupus and you jumped on them and got them good or how'd it work? He said, yeah, did anything change in your preparations for this fight? And Exum said, yes. He said, I was training

out there in Ohio in Don King's camp. I had a hard camp and I came in with a more intense attitude. I was in condition, but a lot of it was mental. The fight was in Illinois and it was cold. I had a real good running the night before. I ran up this hill and I was like i'm gonna get this guy after that i thought i was moving on up you have 31 losses you're not moving on anywhere no you're gonna look bad in my next fight which

was only 10 days later yeah i fight i fought vasily yerov that guy was tall and lanky he was wide wide on top and small around the waist. We fought at cruiserweight. He was hitting hard. He was counterpunching me, and I was counterpunching him, but it was his fucking night. I went down in the first, and I got up. The referee looked at me in a certain way,

and I always hated that. He said, come back and fight another day. I think it's over, sir. TKO. Yeah, this guy, Vasily Yurov, is a bad motherfucker. Nickname's The Tiger. This was at Club Rio in Tempe, actually. Yeah, when they were still doing that.

1997 in January. He is from Kazakhstan, actually. So outside of Borat, he's the only other person I've ever heard that's from Kazakhstan. Like, for real. You know, when Borat came out, he was like, I'm in a pummel. That's Sach Sasha Baron Cohen. I've been the first guy to be like, I'm trying to make Kazakhstan or I'm a champion boxer.

You'll legitimize this voice. And he comes out, my wife, my sister number three prostitute and all of, ah, fuck. Everybody comes up to him going, your sister number three prostitute?

Fuck me. How much do you hate the horns on the gym and all that stuff? I follow the Hawk. That's my favorite. They go, what are you Muslim? And he goes, I follow the Hawk.

They're like, okay, that's the most brilliant way to do that. By the way, don't say you're early. Say I follow the Hawk. They go, what the fuck is that?

That's some weird, some weird cave. I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. And they don't ask any followup questions. Make a call with your hand. They don't want to hear about that. Tell me all about it. No,

no one's going to say that. And if it wasn't, you could really have some fun with them. So you're off is one and oh, coming in 38, three and one for his career. Bad motherfucker. And he kicks the shit out of old XM in one round.

Nine, 32 and two for XM. This is Christ, man. I can't believe there's more. There's more. 97, March 21st. Ryan Pelletti. He comes in 13 and oh, 21 and one for his career. And Pelletti said, this guy is an experienced fighter about Exum.

He's going to come in. This guy is more relaxed, but he seems to take the punch as well. So in other words, he'll let you hit him, but he seems to be able to take it. I'm going to have to use my experience and not punch myself out, saving it for the right moment. Hopefully everything is going to be all right. And for him, it was fine. He beat Exum pretty handily here in a unanimous decision loss for Exum.

In 1997, in April, he fights Gerald the Jedi Nobles. No. He's 10-0 coming in, though. I'm sure. 26-1 for his career. Oh. I guess you can kind of call yourself whatever you want when you're 26-1. Yeah.

Because if someone doesn't like it, you whoop their ass but star trek but that's so star wars references no don't do that don't do that no tko loss for exim he obviously he puts the jedi mind trick and body trick on exim and fucking downs him uh 19 or june 27th 1997 1997, Jeff Lampkin he fights. This is Lampkin's last fight. He's 38-19-1 coming in. This is his last fight, and he goes out by TKO-ing Exum. That's fucking unreal. I've done enough.

In a retirement fight, so that's nice. You made him feel good as he went into the sunset, Exum. He fights December 6th, 1997, Marcus Johnson, 3-0 coming in. Loses to him by decision, june 2nd 99 he fights nate miller whose nickname is mr miller oh boy which isn't a nickname because that's your fucking name anyway who you are if you check into a hotel you go mr miller you don't say how'd you know my nickname no he goes oh you've heard of me yes Yes, I have. It's on your license. He's 30-7 coming into this fight, and he beats Exum.

So Exum is 9-37-2. It's over, man. Next fight, August 28, 1999, he fights Kim Weber. Gave up on men now. He's just letting women kick his ass now. That's a guy. His name's like Joaquim or something. He goes by Kim.

Kim Weber, 26 and one coming into so fucking badass fighter it's just it's all just based on people calling him kim growing up and making fun of him he's done who the fuck's got a girl's name now is he's had enough beat your ass you're like i dude it's cool i like your name i think it's kind of cool man i think it's hip stop hitting me shit 26 and 1 28 and 2 for his career uh he knocks x him out so you see what i mean only really good fighters knock him out most of the time he can hang in there for unanimous decision laws uh you know so he fights them he has a two year layoff after this i would too he is 9 38 and 2, Jesus. And he's like, I need to take some time off.

That's what I need. Recuperate. So he takes two years off. Do you think this is going to go well? No. Coming back older? He fights June. This is his last fight, I promise.

June 14, 2001. Cold Steel Chris Thomas, who's 8 and 2 coming in and finishes his career, 17, 19, and 2. So not exactly setting the world on fire, but he does knock out or TKO Exum. So Exum's final record, 9 wins, 39 losses, and 2 draws. He could have been 10-40. You know what I mean? Jesus Christ.

This is so depressing. This is when he retires now i would too this is as great a question as that last one was this is possibly the dumbest question ever because it's the most obvious after that fight you retired with a record of 9 39 and 2 what finally led to your retirement gee i don't know i mean i think the question is keep doing it very well phrased what finally yeah was the point what did it for you the word finally is important in this you exhausted it what did it yeah it finally happened it was over a long time before what finally convinced you well let's let him answer all right thank you let's. Let's see what he says. He says, quote, as I got older, the punches got harder. Yeah.

It wasn't a decision I made. It just kind of went there. A lot of times I still think about fighting. I start training. I start making plans. I feel good. This is well after. This is 10 years from now.

Not smart. I'm competent and aware of what's going on. Sometimes, though, I have headaches and my hand hurts from blocking punches. I seen my doctor lately and he said I'm fine. I'm doing all right. It's just that I don't know what to do sometimes. I go for a lot of walks. A couple weeks ago, I was down at Manny Pacquiao's gym watching them train and I just left.

I miss fighting. When I was a pro, people knew me around the world because they saw me on TV. I was a fighter. People came to see a fight and that's what I did. i'm just a country boy and they tried to take advantage of nobody cared what happened people are mistreated in boxing i've been behind closed doors they didn't think i knew what they were doing but i did but with everything that happened i'm still happy i'm still content maybe it's because uh of the time that the maybe it's because of the time that that mule kicked me he goes back to the fucking mule makes me happy no matter what he said when it's daytime it's

daytime when it's night it's night god made me so there must be something about me that's just like him even though i'm in the flesh there's a spirit about me and everyone else we're all the same we just look different so maybe he has been hitting the head a couple yeah but he knows where he is he knows where he is he's just not sure why he's there yeah i went down to many peggy house jim and they asked me would you like fries with that yeah and i was like wait a minute what i have to go now and i just left and i didn't get fries or watch a fight so i don't know what happened. So 2005, I found an arrest. 2005, he is arrested in Ashtabula County, Ohio for domestic violence. It's apparently two counts of domestic violence from there.

So that is September 3rd, 2005. That happened. So I know that there he was living in Geneva ohio at the time in an apartment 104a so you can things aren't going terrific for you there uh you know in a place like ashtabula i assume that's not a big rental market i don't know so um 2010 something starts happening here remember douglas stumler right the dead man well 2010 cold case units dna technology really advanced a lot to the point where they you know started being able to process a lot of it and they started pulling cold cases and processing dna and you know that was this was

kind of the beginning of all of that well stumler was on that list because when he was found he's covered in blood and not all of it was his oh so there was dna there's other blood from another person but it's back then they just got a type and if it was you know type a well how many fucking how much of the population's type a unless it's type oh it doesn't really narrow it down if it's a positive it's like okay well you and everybody else so it could be just about anybody but dna is a little bit different so for this uh deal they end up uh start they start processing dna they're trying to look into this case it's been 23 years obviously but they're looking into it also this year exum apparently gets arrested for an open container on the beach so something stupid he gets and then he's uh i think he gets a ticket and then he has a failure to appear in court for that as well which will come up later very very important

at this point he starts working as a security guard for a medical marijuana clinic in venice beach smart so this is a good deal um yeah and i actually found a guy posted in some, I think it was a Reddit thread or something back then about meeting him that day at the club, which is funny. It says, quote, Yesterday at a cannabis club in Venice Beach, California, I met Exum Spate, pro boxer fought Vlad Klitschko, who happens to be a security guard at the dispensary. He gets high all day and rambles about jesus and love and other incoherent things it's probably a combination of getting hit in the head a lot he claims to have had a 24-year career true yeah we know that and all the drug use but he's pretty out there i wonder if this is all that common or if anyone else has similar stories so also i stole weight he tried to stop me i knocked him out i knocked him out so there was that he well actually we fought but the everyone around said i won that's how it worked i don't know it was a unanimous decision

the owner said i earned the lead that's how it worked i don't know so this uh dovide linder talks about how he got the interview with exum spate which is really interesting how he found him he went into an in and out burger in may 2012 in hollywood california and he said the place was packed there was only three seats available walked over to the empty seats he sat down next to a guy who was black guy late 40s who was sitting at a table and uh he sat across from him and they started chatting turns out he's x some spate unbelievable and this guy's a boxing writer wild so just a weird coincidence. He said that's wild.

He said that he was worried when he sat down to interview him that he looked at his record and was like, holy shit, this guy's not going to be able to tell a story. He's going to be fucking mashed potato brain. This isn't going to happen. But he said, quote, however, Spate is exceptionally clear and articulate, remembers almost every detail of every fight he's been in, the year it happened, the venue, the advice his corner gave him, etc. Apparently, he's really sharp with a lot of things. Said over the past year and a half, he received a number of texts and voicemails from Spate saying, quote, God is still in charge.

That's just his way of saying hi. Even though Spate had a rough life in and out of the ring he never expressed anything but gratitude he's a very spiritual person and he said something in our interview that stuck with me that was the god made me so there must be something we're all uh we're all the same we just look different that quote there so uh september 2013 it's uh 10 45 a.m knock at the door and there's some uh police there, and they ask for Exum. His girlfriend answers the door. They ask for Exum. He comes down.

They cuff him. Oh, boy. Not only do they cuff him, they apparently give him a little swabby swab on the inside of the mouth there. And, yeah, he says, what the hell's going on? You know, what's happening the detective said they've been watching him this is detective jackson and he said that he he hasn't really held a steady job he's doing security work stuff like that and uh yeah they processed a bunch of shit and the cold case detectives reviewed the case and screened the evidence for forensic leads

under the uh under a grant uh the unit received from the National Institute of Justices solving cold cases with DNA program. So this shit actually works if you fund this type of thing. It said DNA evidence played a key factor in getting the case solved because after two years they get a hit. It is from Exum Spate. That is the other DNA on the scene of stumbler so um they track down witnesses once that is some located out of state begin piecing a case together based on obviously the dna is

number one they need to you know witnesses to make a picture in a scene too and they do uh the detectives end up arresting him and uh that's that he's arrested for murder holy shit yeah um the detective here it's detective rick jackson of lapd's cold case homicide unit he says with some cases after you get through the dna there are other hurdles but with this one it worked out and it was enough where it was found on the other it was found and the other circumstances where it was found and the other that doesn't make any sense he said uh exum's name came up he was looked at back then and focused on as a potential suspect but they didn't have the forensics we have now plus they ruled him out because he passed polygraph tests here um so they said that uh he said it was gratifying to tell their family that they finally

arrested somebody that's a good deal so obviously the question is what's up with the lie detector test then how do you pass them well basically it's it's all about the person doing it number one that's the thing i found taking it or the person giving the first person giving it and the person taking the interpret it the person giving it a how they make that person feel the person they're giving it to are they frightening them with questions are they aggressive how is their way of manner then how they read it as well how they apply the everything how they put the shit on your body everything matters for this that chick in denver uh that did the chris watson was super confident oh she was a badass yeah she was like that's what i mean i don't know if these guys were as good yeah there's a guy named daniel

ribikoff who's a polygraph examiner at in-depth polygraphs in new york and he has a show called the lie detective in the uk and he says basically it's not the machines the machines are going to pick up what the what they pick up he said the skill of the polygraph examiner is everything being a polygraph examiner is not like being a sonogram technician where you could just use the tool and make the image. You have to be able to administer the test, conduct the interviews well, formulate questions correctly, and accurately interpret the chart. These are all true. If they had somebody who wasn't great at that, you know, who knows.

So there's another. This is really fucking weird. I found this article on a new kind of lie detector test they're trying to come up with. What is it? It is fucking creepy. It's people at the University of Arizona. Oh, boy. They're thinking they're calling it Automated Virtual Agent for Truth Assessments in Real Time.

Okay? Avatar. It's called a lie detector. Yes. Well, they call it a kiosk with a monitor displaying a computerized face, which uses AI to engage human beings in a question and answer session to gauge the veracity of their statements and intentions, but without needing to hook up anyone to the type of psychological sensors required by a polygraph. They said, quote, just as you go into a store and you might use a kiosk to check out or you go to the airport and it was a kiosk to check any of your flight. We, oh my my god we envision this system to be the equivalent of that but for uh security or for screening so basically they're

going to ask you a bunch of questions and based on your eye reactions i don't like that at all no not at all he said so if it's border patrol or border control they might ask you about your travel plans your flight visa status or anything related to the customs and issues that might be important for the airport. And from the passenger's perspective, it's just like any other interaction, except that you're speaking with a computer. You finish the conversation, answer the questions, and move along. Or wait to see if the computer tells you you're a liar. Right. And they come pull you in a fucking room or something.

Calm down, wildcats. It measures and analyzes things like a person's voice pupil dilation and facial and body movements and it sends the information to a human officer who can ask follow-up questions about the responses uh where the machine may have found issues so that's how that works i don't like this at all this sounds fucking terrible doesn't it uh that's gonna put some people in prison for that didn't do it this is really creepy yeah sometimes my eyes bounce back and forth like i'll be staring at you and then i can feel them just moving well you never if you're tired if you're sleeping weird who you know who the hell knows

it's but that's not even just tired or sleeping weird that's just how my eyes are that's the other thing don't put me in prison for that you never know i that seems crazy so i mean he's fucked at this point he's sitting in jail he needs he needs help he needs somebody to help him you know this is the type of guy who's never had anybody important help him you know what i mean his whole career has been a bunch of these schlubs making 50 bucks off of him you know taking his cut of the prize a whore treating him like a whore as he put it and so finally now he's sitting in jail waiting and somebody comes to visit him that could change it all for him. And it's Vince McMahon, the chairman and CEO of WWE.

And he says. How is it you've come to arrive here, you beautiful bastard? The most whore-treating sumbitch. You have no idea. You have no idea what we could do. Oh, you don't even know, buddy. Let me tell you what your quality is that I admire. First of all, you're a big bastard.

Right away, that's your vascular. I like that. It's huge. I like that about you. Okay, number one. But number two, and this is the main thing yeah you lose you're willing to lose people don't want to lose anymore you you're on your back four or five times a week you don't care you don't care you'll lose you come in and you lose and you strangle and you lie you're a real killer you're practical you're you're exactly what i've lie. You're a real killer. You're practical. You're exactly

what I've been looking for. As a matter of fact, I don't even want you in the ring. Will you work for me? Be my right hand man. I'm going to push my daughter out of the way and you're going to run my company. I feel like a murdering person with brain damage who's willing to lose is the only person

that can run this company. Come with me. I'm going to get you out of here. Poof. And a poof of 1099s he's gone and exon's excited he's like he's gonna get me out of jail 1099s and other people's sweat other people's sweat cuts of other people's fucking cuts of other people's purse money flying everywhere. So he's in jail. Yep. And while he's in there, his family, as we'll talk about it, really goes off on trying to get him out of there. Really? Saying this is a giant conspiracy.

You guys, there's DNA. This is the problem. It's kind of just DNA. And it's not like, okay, the DNA to a thing. It's not like this happened last year and then a year later they caught him and the same detective worked on it the whole time and he had a real thing for xm and he knew it was him he wanted to get him this was 25 years later nobody that was a cop then is still a cop now maybe a guy was a rookie patrolman but no homicide detective who

was working the stumler case is still employed 25 years later with the police department probably but has like this you know vendetta where he's like their pension to get the fuck out i've been waiting for dna so i can get this guy like that's not a thing right you know they're not trying to like there's no pressure to solve this case no it's not like this is like you know this isn't the black dahlia that's what i mean there's no pressure it's not a political thing it's some fucking some schlub according to the government obviously he's a victim of murder that's terrible but some it's just a hoosiers fan some schlub in an apartment on la cienega boulevard got fucking killed who cares that happens sometimes yeah so

that's how they're looking at it but uh july of 2015 exum cuts a deal really because it's a 25 26 year old case that they're not looking to you know prosecute this to the end of the earth this is a death penalty case no this is a these are plea bargain cases they want they don't want these going to trial so they end up plea bargaining and he he gets a decent plea bargain here for a degree no manslaughter voluntary manslaughter which is very light considering the crime yeah that's like if that happened he would have got life without if they caught him the year after with that kind of crime scene holy shit it was brutal man so this is this is wild but this much longer just trying to make a deal and get

out of it they make him a deal wow and sentencing comes around and shit you sir yeah may fuck off 10 11 years wow with parole that's pretty light it's not bad for a fucking brutal murder yeah that's pretty wow talk about making out yeah i know people that deserve it right you know what i mean yeah i'd gladly do 11 for some people that deserve you know what i'm saying like five and a half what the hell why not awesome rock it out so i'm that's crazy man jesus christ crazy that's not justice but no good for all murder but i mean if you're trying to get a deal wow vladimir klitschko's been in the ring with a lot of killers and this one is a legit he's a legit killer absolutely believable so yeah he's there i mean i mean yeah you gotta the guy he killed is he was just a nice guy trying to manage

a boxer and watch an indiana game so you know and i always kind of and i don't know why it is but like unless it's like a kid or something like that but i always not feel bad but there's always something in the back of my mind when somebody gets away with something for like 40 years and they bust them obviously not if it's like a but a murder of another guy it's a different thing especially like they were friends they lived it's a it's i don't feel the same weren't there it's different sorry it is yeah if you as a man if you fucking like butcher a woman or something it's different than if you beat the shit out of your ex-manager to me there's everything is obviously it's all terrible and no one's less of a victim than anyone else but there's a triage of it for me and i don't know what happened between them people who kill kids are at the top

of that triage of people i want to fucking rip their balls off of and then you people who kill women and then somewhere down the line is people who kill dudes they were sort of in business with and you know we're roommates of yeah you know what i'm saying so it's just one of those things. So you still feel bad, though, but not nearly as bad. Get out of here. As I feel. How many? For Exum. What?

Spate. Yeah. Who was 69 years old in Hampton, Virginia, before he passed away in 2015 here, which he did. This guy here, Exum Buddy. Buddy, a.k.a. Bro. So he was either Buddy or Bro, apparently, you could call him. Maybe he died when he found so he was either buddy or bro apparently you could call him maybe he

died when he found out he was going to prison maybe well he died at home surrounding by his loved ones i'm pretty sure he's a relative of exum spate because edward his first name is it's edward exum but he goes by exum buddy or bro edward was born in 1945 in whittaker's north carolina so i assume that any of the spates from Whitaker's, North Carolina are probably these people. They've got to be related. Considering they had 17 kids. So I bet a lot of their family had a lot more kids. Yeah.

You know, so there's a lot of them. Yeah, he graduated from Huntington High School in 1963, which was when our Exum Spate was born. And yeah, spent three years in the U.S. Army. He got married he retired uh after from the Newport News Shipyard after 36 years as an electrician he enjoyed cutting grass reading the newspaper and the auto trader and then spent spending time with his grandchildren what a day yeah that sounds great doesn't it sound I want a day where the only thing I have to do is cut the grass and read the auto trader.

That sounds wonderful. That sounds amazing. You're officially 75 years old. What do they want for this thing? He's like, oh, boy, I got a glass of lemonade in there. That's really something. Now I'm cooking. This one's a bit overpriced.

Oh, boy, get me a box of wheat thins. It's going to be a hell of a day. Oh, this guy knows what he has. So, yeah. So he's sitting in jail. Yeah. As we'll talk about, his family going crazy. There's yeah. So he's sitting in jail. Yeah. As we'll talk about his family going crazy. There's petitions to Barack Obama from back then and everything else.

It's wild. But on March 7th, 2016, Exum dies of a stroke in jail. Get out. Dies of a stroke in jail. Unbelievable. He's in there for, I mean, Christ, he pleaded guilty. Three weeks. Pleaded guilty less than a year before that.

I mean, he was arrested in 2013. Right. But still right but still he's you know three years and he's done that's it he they gave him the lightest sentence ever he got three years for murder basically he got out his own way even serve it nope now now we get into the conspiracy part of this where his family says this is a huge conspiracy oh boy first of all i have to tell you okay now i'm up for a fun conspiracy as much as the next guy propose it you know what i'm saying and i'm not talking about political conspiracies because that's always there's way too much like money interest as far as like that can be clouded one way or the other so deep that's so deep-seated when you you know read what the cia you would do to put different this is not a political thing and your average your average asshole has no fucking clue stop with those you don't know what you're talking about you're not

you're not informed you don't know the ins and outs you reading it on reddit doesn't mean that it's real so anyway the pizza place doesn't even have a fucking thing exactly that's the point but if you get like a conspiracy theory that really doesn't matter to the world as far as like something silly i will go to the ends of the earth to inspect it i'm listening and then it's fun yeah i'm reading a book right now about how they think that charles manson was a fucking fbi informant because he got arrested like 10 times while on federal probation and never got held for a parole violation like the month before the murders or the system's fucked he got arrested like 10 times while on federal probation and never got held for a parole violation like a month before the murders or the system's fucked he got caught naked in bed with a 17 year old girl with five joints on the dresser next to him they released him and charged her

with possession of marijuana oh my god so you know what i'm saying it should be alive when they when they raided the ranch he had four stolen credit cards in his shirt pocket they let him go they released him they said it was a misdated warrant it's not a misdated warrant they have the warrants the right date it's ridiculous so there's a whole conspiracy on that and i'm willing to go to a 14 hour audiobook sure and listen to this shit and who cares if it's matters or not it distracts me from this so i to hear it. What I'm saying is if something's interesting, I'll play with it for a while. If it sounds plausible, fine. If not, fuck it.

This does not sound plausible. Let's just say that. Now, here is a letter to Barack Obama dot com. This is from and it says, Mr. President, ex ex-same spate is dead okay it says now there's a lot of as i'm going to show you this there's a lot of god it's so much half caps and half not caps and boy it looks like it looks like a tweet it's really wild okay so uh mr president ex-same spate died on march 7th, after waiting two years for the White House to take action. Your fault.

Blaming it on him. There's blood on your hands. Been waiting for you, asshole. I called. I left a text. What the fuck, dude? What do I have to do? He was an innocent black Indian disabled ex-pro boxer that was set up by the LAPD slash FBI cold case detectives to obtain grant

money and cover their own crimes. We have proof. We sent it to Chief Charlie Beck one week before Exum was dead. They allowed him to sit in jail for over two years when his brain was sitting in a pool of blood. Three exclamation points. This is a racist hate crime and we have asked for a federal investigation. A task force and other innocent black men have shared their stories with me about the same dirty detectives and their direct connection to the Biggie Smalls, Tupac Shakur, O.J. Simpson, Michael Jackson, Charles Manson, Lonnie Franklin Jr., Robert Blake, Samuel Little, and Miura murders.

and Miura murders. Detectives planted DNA evidence against all of these men and need the White House's help ASAP as we have been threatened, terrorized, cyber-stalked, cyber-terrorized, followed, stalked. He said stalked twice, I think. And our investigators have been beaten. Their car exploded and have been falsely imprisoned. Ex-LAPD officer Russell Poole,

which I know that name, I know that detective. I don't know him personally, but know of him, dropped dead of a supposed heart attack while proving this case to the sheriff's office in Los Angeles. Wow. Or all of this shit drove him mad and his heart couldn't take it. Or 55-year-old overweight guys have heart attacks a lot. What's a common cause of death for an ex-cop? Probably a heart attack, I assume. So, yeah, stress, eating like shit for years, it happens. overweight guys have heart attacks a lot what's a common cause of death for an ex-cop probably heart attack i assume so yeah stress eating like shit for years it happens they think that the grim sleeper had evidence planted oh you have no idea the east area rapist is in this you want to

know who the real you want to know who the real golden state killer is like you want to know who the real east area rapist is to know well they're gonna tell you they know oh they know you will be so surprised when you hear you're gonna be because you know who it is you know the guy he did it kurt russell weird right so okay now i'm gonna read this quickly so catch up because this fucking this is like four pages of insanity. Great. And I'm going to bust through it. This is written as, quote, deposition. It says, wow, this is long. Okay, I'm going to find, I'm going to skip some parts of it, too, because there's some. Their own deposition. Dude, it's like eight pages of shit.

Oh, my God. It's crazy. Deposition regarding LAX Airport Superior Court case, because it was at that court. Case number blah, blah, blah. City of Los Angeles Angeles California versus Exum Spate here we go on September 25th 2013

several men with LAPD badges around their necks came to Exum's guest house in San Fernando California they were wearing jeans tennis shoes and t-shirts asking if Mr. Exum could come to the door saying they were police officers Exum Spate went outside with the five were police officers exum spate spate went outside with the five to seven officers and was immediately handcuffed the lead officer asked

brie spate exum exum's common law wife if he had any shoes as they had just awoken so she handed him exum's boxing boots why would she do that considering he hasn't been in the ring in fucking 12 years put these on why would they be sitting by the door he hasn't been in the ring in fucking 12 years here put these on why would they be sitting by the door he hasn't been in the ring in 12 years why would that be the most accessible pair of shoes it's pretty awesome it'd be in a fucking closet in the third bedroom so right there anyway these wilson's on here everlast actually are they yep all right they immediately took the shoelaces out of the boots and and the laces from his sweatshirt hoodie which made her very suspicious well that's what they do when you're going to jail she yeah she asked the officers if they had a warrant for

xm's arrest and the lead lapd officer told lapd officer m mayia to get the papers from the patrol car xm said yeah where is the warrant for my arrest the lead cop then handed brie three tight pages stating that xm had a failure to appear charge from a 2010 open container charge issued on Venice Beach. There. Let's see. She says Exum was a pro ex pro boxer and never drank. Yeah, not boxers never drink. Exum asked the lead officer why the judge would send them out for a misdemeanor charge. They told him after two requests from the D.A., the judge released an arrest warrant. Brie asked the officer where they were taking Exum and what was going to happen to him.

He said the judge of Van Nuys would allow her to pay his fines and he could be released in a matter of hours to call the police station in Van Nuys and then he would be there until he was transferred to Twin Towers Jail. They never read Exum his rights, which they will later on when they process him. They never told him either party. They never

told either party he was under arrest for murder. They left without incident, never producing a warrant for his arrest. Brie was evicted from their guest house, which they rented together the next day after Detective Rick Jackson of the LAPD told the landlord, Sue, at the address there, that they would throw Brie out if she needed them to. Sue told Brie that she had 30 days to move, then showed the unit to two black men as potential renters brie and her investigators saw the two black men and can identify them we believe they were undercover officers looking for evidence to use against exum as a kitchen knife was missing when she returned like he'd have the same knife 26 years fucking later and i bet this is the same one what sick bastard keeps a trophy for 26 years in his carving board thing fucking sue had to that's the landlord had to told brie that if she knew an lapd cop that would come to visit and do

a background check on xm a few days before they showed up and she was offered a new money-making opportunity i don't know what any of that means. Some of this is going to get real weird. A few weeks prior to his arrest and a few days after, Sue told Brie about her ex-cop friend. She saw Detective Rick Jackson, who remembers the arresting officer, from the LAPD-FBI, and Mark Furman from the O.J. Simpson case, questioning Exum near their home outside their unmarked police car in 2013 mark firman yeah

is there right who retired and then at a tv show yeah i mean i don't know what he was doing but i don't think the lapd was inviting him into the circle to do work because pretty much anything he touches is gone to shit is now covered in shit even if he does a great job you know what i mean still covered in shit because he is a shit man right that's what it is when you are a shitty human like that you can't be trusted because you're a scumbag and have so much hate in your heart then you know what yeah that's what happens you fucking douchebag fucking mark firman he's a scumbag but it's one of those things where it's like yes i, I don't believe that. I think he did something with OJ.

He did something. And OJ killed his wife, just like Stephen Avery. The cops did plan evidence and he killed that woman. Both of the things. It's possible for all of those things to be true. That's what I'm getting at. So anyway, so there was local San Fernando police unit sitting on the corner watching. So Brie was very suspicious.

She didn't know anything about the 1987 cold case murder they were questioning him about at that time. When they left, she asked XM why they were there. And he said, oh, it's nothing. Someone I knew a long time ago was murdered, but now they have my spit. So they'll know I didn't do it. Everything is going to be okay don't worry i guess they dna'd him and said well you know whatever uh so she wondered why uh why he would submit to a dna test without a warrant if he was uh if he was guilty she's like why would

he do that okay because they asked for one she asked xm if they showed him a warrant to take his dna he said what dna they just took to put a q-tip in my mouth to get some spit she explained that they tricked him that they took a sample of his dna without a warrant this guy went to an uh like a technical college yeah this guy went to the institute of technology in rochester i don't think he's that stupid no i just don't i think he knows that much technology or he uh he's like i didn't spit on him i'm fine she then asked if he understood what they were do going to do with his spit and he said yes they're going to prove i'm innocent that's what they said she felt as if he knew they were going she felt as if he knew

that they were going to found innocent that if he were guilty he would never have given them a sample without a warrant yeah people have never done dumb shit yeah they never go sure search my car when they have a fucking dead woman in the trunk yeah happens all the time he also said detective rick jackson also asked him who brie was and he said my girlfriend detective jackson asked her last name when he couldn't remember how to spell her last name detective jackson told xm to get brie's fingerprints which she thought was odd since she had no wants or warrants and had only known xm for a few months they called her common law wife a minute ago all right earl three paragraphs ago which is

it yeah use his last name their common law wife now she can't spell her name and she's only known for three months fuck is going on she didn't give it another thought mark firman they talk about here wow shit man shit man himself until the day after the arrest when she opened her computer to find Mark Furman, they talk about here. Wow. Shit man. Shit man himself. Until the day after the arrest, when she opened her computer to find the county clerk's phone number to go bail X him out, she burst into tears when she saw the national news page. Ex-pro boxer arrested for 1987 cold case murder of former manager Douglas Stumler. LAPD squad something. Douglas Stumler. LAPD squad something Tim Marsha lied under oath in court giving testimony that he was with Detective Rick Jackson when they took Exum's DNA illegally. It was not Tim Marsha. It

was Mark Furman. Brie recognized him from the OJ Simpson case and took photos of them pushing Exum into their squad car and forcing a Q-tip into his mouth after they forced him after they forced his arm into a locked position outside the home to scrape his skin for dna samples which they don't do it's just a swab that's all you need you don't need to swab and some skin that's not how dna works they want to make sure that his dna wasn't under his skin pull a pube from him too and see if we need that they just want dna trying to see if stumbler's dna is under his nails still yeah it could be it really it's there it's on his skin i gotta test it so she saw she said from a distance from across the thing not right in front of her he didn't give him a business card hi i'm mark firman she saw a guy yeah over there and knew it was mark firman from the oj case okay the national news showed exum's mug mugshot that he'd been arrested

for murder, blah, blah, blah. Here they showed what appeared to be a two-year-old mugshot of Exum on the national news when he may have

accepted a charge for the medical marijuana doctors on Venice Beach, a charge that was recently shown on Fox 11 News to be a setup by the LAPD officers.

The photo was not of Exum's fate but an imposter who used to be an LAPD cop. Oh my God. Yeah. It's too deep already. His name will be released at the upcoming press conference and is associated with

the Biggie Smalls murder. Brie immediately called the sheriff and LAPD to find out that he was holding that he was in a holding tank downtown and that they had no information to his condition or whereabouts. She called for five days. Every day they told her it would take more time to find him, to call back the next day,

and that his bail would be $1,020,000. That's murder. That the failure to appear charges had been dismissed and that he was being charged with murder. She called three times a day and checked in online for the next five days and found nothing until she saw he'd be in court for an arraignment. Let's see here.

Brie was contacted shortly after that by Sharon Choi, a.k.a. Shea Queegan on Twitter, who said she was Exum's girlfriend, that he was a pathological liar, a cheater, mental, and an abuser, and that she lived with him for several years, and that he, quote, had many whores he slept with every time they broke up, that Bree was just another whore,

and that he tricked her into believing that he was in love with her. She said she was trying to be his friend and get him an attorney, and that she was asking for donations of $1,000 from all of Exum's family members to help pay a $15,000 retainer to an attorney who worked for Hustler magazine. Oh, my God.

Is Che Quedle, is that Mark Furman's burner account on Twitter? I think it's got to be. Yeah, I think it's. After listening to all her lies and slander, Brie phoned Exum's brother to see what the family wanted to do to help Exum get bailed out of jail. She often called the LAPD bail commissioner and left her phone number, but they never returned her call. Let's see here. Let's get to some crazy stuff.

Jesus Christ. This isn't the crazy? It gets crazier. She asked him, okay, here we go. Brie called Samuel Leonard, public defender, and left her name and phone number, asking him to give her phone number to Exum in court the next day, which he did. Exum called Brie Collect and told her that something bad had happened to him.

He sounded scared and afraid to tell her who hurt him. He said he found himself under a stairwell and that other inmates and a guard had to carry him to his bunk, that he laid there for a very long time unconscious and beaten worse than any professional fight. She asked him where he was hurt and he said, I hurt all over, my ribs, my hands, my wrists, my head, my legs. She asked him if he had been beaten, and he said yes. She asked who did it, the inmates or the guards, and he slowly whispered both. So Brie connected the LAPD business card they left with her that day of the arrest to Officer Mejia from the LAPD boxing team. She also found out that felony fights and cons versus cons.com, it's like a license plate, I can't get it, is an underground and illegal boxing gym connected to Twin Towers

Jail ran by attorney Richard Pintal, who asked her for a $150,000 fee. Exum said that the jail guards invited him downstairs to their boxing gym but he said no brie told exum she would handle it and they prayed together for his safety so she's saying that they dragged him down to be beaten in their private underground fight club that they have on cons verse cons but they have a website for but it's private okay um whoa uh bail reduction none of that matters nothing was done xms brie not to let him not to get him in trouble that he was afraid of the guards uh public defender samuel leonard called for four days saying brie shouldn't have called the bail

commissioner that he was that he was the one to request a bail reduction but that we probably wouldn't get one he never called back blah blah blah blah he later remembered that someone hit him on the back of the head inside a squad car after mejia had gotten out of the car he said he didn't remember anything after that until he woke up under a stairwell beaten so badly he couldn't speak clearly walk or see without his glasses family and brie watched him walk into a wall in the courtroom because he couldn't see doctors later said he had broken bones and ribs and paralysis exum passed a lie detector test in 1987 and has two witnesses to his alibi. He told Bree their names and asked her to find one of them to have them call his attorney.

She did a search on both of them and both men have died. Exum also told Bree they pulled him in for questioning in the 1990s in Brazil but did release. Brie was suspicious of the LAPD FBI and the validity of the charges. She then started doing searches on the computer to find any photos of the deceased Douglas Stumler. She and her investigator couldn't find a grave marker, a funeral, an obituary, cremation letters, a notification in the LAPD murder book,

or anything to prove that he was, in fact, murdered. I do have a picture of his gravestone yeah by the way she didn't dig they buried something there i don't know uh brie got more suspicious when others on the internet were making fun of the fbi saying they don't even check their facts before they release a story they saw douglas stumler's photo online before and it was really a photo of bill gates they were commenting that the college listed in the report that douglas stumler attended didn't even exist, and that it was yet another cover-up.

Brie pulled the death certificate information online to see that it was listed at March 31, 1987, yet the press said he was murdered on March 29. Brie printed out the proof to give to Mr. Leonard and the absent DA. As one had not yet been assigned, Mr. Leonard put the evidence in his pocket before the court and never

presented it to Judge James Dabney. When Judge Dab asked mr leonard if there were any discovery in the case he said no and judge dabney transferred the case to judge mark windham and alan geffald was contacted to help assist his friend yes they found him on the 31st yeah the time they think he was there for two fucking days they think he was murdered on the 29th. That's why that is. That's why those two things are like that, you fucking dipshit. So, Exum phoned Bree at 12.22 at 10.22.13 at 2.40 p.m. to report he had been beaten again and gang raped by inmates and guards.

Oh. And guards. They just got this guy in there that is beating him and fucking him. They're going to go to town on him. They're going to fuck away on him. Just beating and fucking beating and fucking him good this call was recorded from the twin towers medical unit phones

other inmates shouted to brie over the phone that the guards left him on the floor for hours after the beatings exum sat in jail with ptsd being beaten gang raped by cops and cop gangs and head injuries from his boxing career and from watching five white men burn his father to death. Jesus Christ. What the fuck? How did that happen? From watching five white men burn his father to death in the family car when he was seven years old?

Did that happen? Is that real? Is that fucking real? How do you have 17 more? Right. He was seven. How are the 17 siblings? I don't know if that's real,

but I feel like he would have mentioned that shit in his interview. Should have been. I feel like that would have been a big thing as like, well, you know. That would have fucked me up. The turning point in my life was watching five horrible Klan members burn my father alive in a fucking car. I think that would be something you'd mention, right? That would ruin you. That would make you want to fight, probably.

Yeah. So, wow. That's crazy. They left him alone, traumatized, scarredized scarred injured confused and unable to speak clearly with no form of medical attention or anyone to assist him in filing an abuse report with no food or water and nobody who would take pre-statement at the burbank police department or over the phone at the west lapd station where she called they told her to have exum file a report at the twin towers jail but he was too scared to oh boy um yeah called a public defender uh back in uh mr leonard oh my god so they found

they said that uh exum um was uh found fit to stand trial and uh brie exum saw pd and samuel leonard at twin towers jail sitting next to her and not in the attorney's private area they both told mr leonard that they wanted trial. This was recorded on jail phones. He did not comply. Brie was instructed by her investigator not to visit the Twin Towers, and several innocent visitors had been beaten or held against their will at the jail. She spoke to Exum nearly every day to ensure that he was alive and was giving him unconditional love and healing energy

to help him heal from the beatings and the rapes. Mr. Leonard never reported the felony crimes against Exum to anybody ever. This is a felony failure to report. Oh, boy. Felony report a crime and conspiracy to commit fraud upon the court and ultimately murder,

even though no one's dead. Oh, wait, he died after that. We believe Mr. Leonard was brought to the LAX courthouse, especially for this case, and has exhibited malice. This is their attorney. Oppressive and prejudiced in total reckless disregard for Exum's civil rights, he badgered Exum and prodded him to speak freely about sexual matters and past abuses against him that do not pertain to this case, using fear and manipulation against him and giving him incentives to lie or protect himself with fantasy it's unconscionable cruel and unusual punishment to an already traumatized severely beaten gang rape scarred and disabled that isn't black man okay wow um that's a lot uh there's more this happened in 2013 this is very recent um so we're talking about the court um they said oh they

sent exum to patent state mental hospital three months later on march 17 2014 for evaluation the team evaluated him and uh brie spoke to the clinic psychologist and nothing was mentioned about exum going back to court our twin towers on monday they sent exum back to the twin towers for a friday and then he appeared at court, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Sharon, here's another shit here. Sharon, a.k.a. Shea or Sharon Choi Bozinski, had access to Exum's skin, nails, hair, blood, semen, and saliva. She told Brie, the feds are on my side. of her slanderous statements. She said Detective Rick Jackson showed up at her house wearing a $4,000 suit with a woman and didn't ask many questions about Exum

that he seemed more interested in her. She said that she told him that Exum was a sexual pervert and an abuser. She told them that he smoked crack and hit her once. Smoked crack once or just hit her once?

Brie knew she was lying and she had a doctor do a full blood workup and drug screening on Exum in 2014 in the hospital. Brie and her investigator have a report with the results. All he had in his system was cannabis as he smoked medical marijuana for pain. Brie asked Exum about this and he said Sharon uses drugs and that she attacked him.

That he simply defended himself from her. That's the 2005 domestic violence. That he simply defended himself from her. That's the 2005 domestic violence. He said that she was horrible to him. That Brie needed to be careful with her as she was a Jewish, Korean-speaking LAPD gangster. Be careful. She's Jewish.

She speaks Korean. And she's an LAPD gangster. That's a bad one. That is quite the triad there. I don't know where those two three things come together they usually don't merge i'm usually not but that venn diagram is usually pretty separate there's a lot of uh a lot of stuff there with friends like sheriff baka who is the sheriff up until 2014 in la county who ended up being sentenced to three years in prison actually for some uh indiscrepancies there detective rich rich

okay i have to start this sentence over because it gets really crazy after this okay he said she was horrible to him that brie needed to be careful with her as she was a jewish korean speaking lapd gangster with friends like sheriff baka detective rick jackson leonardo dicaprio Detective Rick Jackson, Leonardo DiCaprio, Adam Farrar, Leonardo's half-brother, and LAPD LASD officers. She said she knows where Brie lives and has one of her son's phone numbers. Brie was in fear for her safety as well. Exum also told Brie that his life had been threatened and he was cut by a knife at her home uh at her home by sharon choi bozinski and her son thomas bozinski and that he was scared for his life in july 2013 he left her and that's when he met brie at venice beach so um yeah sharon shay choi bozinski bozinski

was in court on november 17 2014 sitting with with Alan Gelfand of the Socialist Party and L.A. Justice Department as friends and business associates. One of her alias blog owner for alias blogs read black Jew hate crime against Jew funded Exum Spate. I don't know what the fuck any of this means. She called Alan Geflin to request one of his friends be Exum's public defender so they could fuck him over. Oh, boy. One night in October 2013, Detective Rick Jackson rode up to Bree's car at 3 a.m. Bree was sending a text message for the next day. She rolled down her window and said hello.

Detective Rick Jackson asked if Bree was okay. In a scary voice she said yes i am now that i sent that text showing him her cell phone he just rode away on a black and white police motorcycle it's weird why would a why would a cold case detective be riding a fucking his other motor pool motorcycle i think she just doesn't know people doesn't recognize them that's when brie moved away and moved changed her phone number and reported everything to policeabuse.com and crimestoppers.org her true identity is being withheld as her family is also law enforcement and she's had previous contact with the white house on confidential matters and has shared this information with them uh at potus at real donald

trump at aclj so brie went on viral on went viral on twitter and contacted several people in congress the press lapd lasd fbi secret service internal affairs the president of the united states the first lady zev yorilovsky ridley thomas loretta lynch okay mayor garcetti kamala harris senator feinstein the aclu the naacp the doj and sheriff elect bomb olmstead and a partridge in a pear tree that's who went viral is that didn't go viral i'd like to know how many tweets i got uh yeah retweets and likes oh my god so okay where is the part i'm like oh my god ex-mayor holy shit gang buddies this is this is fucking this is wild man the accusations are just they they're unfounded they make no sense well here's the part that you really want to hear

about okay the entire prison had a riot that day but it was not newsworthy he was an innocent angel gave his life to bring justice to 100 other plus innocent black men who have been set up by the same dirty white cops that did the same to lonnie franklin j Samuel Little, a.k.a. Sam McDowell, Tupac Shakur, Biggie Smalls, O.J. Simpson, and Michael Jackson, Robert Black, and both of our investigators, one being a federal contractor. Detective Rick Jackson, ex-LAPD, FBI cold case unit with Tim Marsha with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So here it is. Okay. Mark Furman may also be the East Area Rapist. Oh, my God.

They have framed an ex-cop, Joseph DeAngelo, for these murders. We are requesting a form. They have framed. This is post-arrest. Wow. Yeah. They framed him because DNA doesn't exist in this person's world. Oh, my God.

DNA means nothing because it's all set up. Oh, my God. So if it's all set up, it can't be real. That's what set up. Oh, my God. If it's all set up, it can't be real. That's what I mean. When you have this thing of nothing's real, when DNA isn't real or votes aren't real or this isn't real, anything can be not real if you just say it's not real because it makes you feel good. That's unbelievable.

It's crazy. That's what I mean. DNA evidence, what's that? You can't believe that because they're just doing this and that. So they believe nothing. The guy fucking did it. All you have to do is be an eight-year-old and go, no, it's not. Yeah.

So all those women that went into court and looked him in the eye and said this little dick motherfucker was in my... They were all lying? No, it's not. To cover up a thing because they want to protect Mark Furman? The fuck are we talking about here? Nobody wants to protect Mark Furman. No.

They have framed an ex-cop, Josephph d'angelo for these murders we are requesting a formal investigation and a grand jury hearing after receiver immunity after we receive immunity for our testimony recent developments the california fires in paradise california started after we made contact with donald newsom of bbs radio paradise california Donald Newsome of BBS Radio, Paradise, California. We saw that Detective Rick Jackson's fiancée slash wife, Ph.D. Debbie Holiday, connected with two of our followers on LinkedIn, one being Donald Newsome. His home and radio station were burned to the ground after he offered to look at our proposed radio show and broadcast. Thank you. We must stop these terrorists and send them all to jail and or mental hospitals oh boy uh who is that his team oh my god can't get enough well look that shit up yeah

because it's there's a lot more i left pages out i had to go to the east area rape as shit oh my god uh if you get on ebay there's an exum Spate autograph. Really? Actually, it's on an index card. 1995. Not bad. Free shipping. For a murderous autograph. Pretty cool. Yeah, I don't know.

And then just so you'll feel better, here's Douglas L. Stumler's gravestone. There it is. He's buried a grave. That's from his find a grave. Craft Graceland Memorial Park in New Albany, Floyd County, Indiana. Memorial ID 155061333 you can look it up fucking there he is there's a headstone it exists he doesn't know he's alive still he's walking around he's really bill gates that's xm spade everybody i mean what a story when we say

something's going to be different shit's going to be different it was fucking different boy that is something i can't believe those people can't believe that shit oh they say they're making a documentary oh i can't wait to see that it's that was like four years ago though then once he died it all kind of you know lost a little bit of steam so i don't know now with covid you can't get together to film it that's the thing if you like that show and you thought that was a crazy story let us know about it. Let the world know about it. Get on Apple Podcasts.

Give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. Say you're following instructions or directions or some shit. It doesn't matter. We don't care. Just do it because it does help a lot. You can also follow the show. You can do that easy.

We're at Crime and Sports on Twitter and Facebook. At Small Town Murder on Instagram. The other thing you should do, go to ShutUpAndGive murder.com get all your merchandise there all your small town murder stuff listen to small town murder yeah if you haven't tried it yet god damn it give it a shot because it's insane 200th episode is this week this week 200th episode so start with 200 and work your way back you can do that check it out right now small Small Town Murder. Do all of that. Also, listen to PSA Hate This Movie because I had to watch fucking Twilight. We did Twilight, Jimmy. I lost my goddamn mind.

Want to hear me explode about sparkly vampires and shit? It's on there. I couldn't. What? I had to watch the whole damn thing. It's two hours long. Yeah. Why are they sending them to high school, Jimmy?

Don't they have several of them also? Oh, there's a bunch. They sent them to high school. They don't have to be in high school. They're just saying they're graduated. They're homeschooled. 2,000 years old? Yeah, they're hundreds of years old.

They know all of them. You just send them it all over and over again. I'm not going to get into it. They know all of them. It's all in the episode. So check that out. They were there. Check everything out.

Get bonus material. More than anything, though, we have tons of stuff. Last week's crime and sports bonus that came out a few days ago was Mark Chimura. Yeah, that whole mess and trial and everything like that. And for small town murder, which you'll also get access to with the one donation for five dollars on Patreon is the Thanksgiving Day murders throughout history. And there are some wild fucking murders in there that are just like murder heavy's a murder heavy day it's a murder heavy day so check all that out you can get everything like that at patreon.com slash crime and sports anybody over the five dollar level and jimmy will mispronounce your name he'll try hard to say it right but he knew he won't you're welcome so uh he'll do that

at the end of every show as well you'll be a producer and if you just want to be a producer and have good karma you can do that as well by making a donation over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at gmail.com. I think there's only one thing left to make me feel better. I need to hear the names of the people who would never write a crazy thing and accuse either of us of being the East Area Rapist. Jimmy, let me have it. This week's executive producers are Cameron Kuchwaraara uh maria kip soosley john miller uh and he donated twice

wow thank you he also has had covid twice oh my god unbelievable this poor bastard lord hang in there john sorry but thank you janine derbeck and talena jensen happy birthday uh jake nasso mark wismar jordan bennett still thank you so much jordan nicholas 11 and they just bought a truck by the way congratulations jordan and simon good for you guys uh nicholas levitt i said that carol bronze sticking around thank you carol denise anderson rj harman aaron uh shiflet dd re i think a re it could be r or re all right allA. Thank you, DeeDee. Jolene Robinson, Donna Katzenkulo, Jackie Marin, Kim Fletterman. I think that's right. Deb.

Oh, boy. It's already going downhill. Ramondos. Oh, Ramondos. That's not right either. Jules and John Harris. I think they're in Pennsylvania. No, they're not.

Austin Lomax and Sam Kranzwick. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much. You guys are actual heroes. Thank you. Other producers this week are Thomas Smith, Jennifer Baird, Teresa Ann Brown, Nicole Lopez, Andrew Sullivan,

Robbie Barton, Tracy Renninger, Catherine Lano, Kyle O'Rourke. What is this? Aphra? Aphra Tulip? That's not right. I apologize. It might be.

Probably not, though. Jennifer Visconti, Katerina Niazulka, Alexis Amos, Christine Harrington, Jacqueline Hannaford, Peyton Meadows, Amanda Knight, Bradley Hinkle. What is this? And what did I do? Oh, that's on the next line. No, it's not. Dan Roy, Dad Roy. Oh, and his dad, Roy. Oh, and his dad, Roy. and and what did what did i do oh that's on the next line no it's not uh dan roy dad roy oh and

his dad roy oh and his dad i was gonna ask you and his dad do you want to guess his name roy deck at castleberry uh samuel hunt gabrielle gray matthew morris samantha danielson john Matthew Morris, Samantha Danielson, John Kimbrough, Daniel Barbier, Santiago Quinones, Stephen Elwell, Brian Crosby, Laura Tiesner, James Martyr, Liz Vasquez, Ann Edwards, Travis Goodrich, Emily Henry Gillis, Henry Gillis, Baby Yoda, Janice Hill, Pink Zebra, Kristen with no last name, Reed Polk, David with no last name. Kim Taylor. Sam Shore. Happy birthday. Austin Grover. Jessica would know last name. Madison McDonald. Evan Glidwell. Alan Caruso. Samantha Koston.

I think that's right. Jessica Gore. Mary would know last name. Josh. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Widget. Oh, that's a weird name.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Terrible last name. Melissa Walker. Gino Marcello. he works over at oakwood and i believe oh yes it's true he lost his mom or his dad lost a fucking family member and i'm sorry about i apologize gino hang in there man phil mcgroin yeah gotcha taylor walden ashley white leslie hull anna l anita martinez in the memory of matt walker from uh matt vianueva thank you very much

and i'm thank you terribly sorry about your friend charles butyl john mole mole jen pollock bianco lou weber uh ben heather yes butyl is that one name or butyl maybe i think that's my friend i don't know that guy maybe you know he's a He's a good guy. Butel? Yeah. It's possible. Good dude. Thanks, Butel. Thank you. Ben Heather and Hannah showed him the show through the Rulo episode. Oh, boy. Good work, Hannah. Wow, got in on the dirty side. Hell of a swing. Brittany with no last name.

Tom Olson. Gregory Swainston. John Clarkin. God damn it. Steena Oaks. Magnus Quancock. That can't be right. Kaylee Stillians, Rabbi Shmulalovich.

Every week. I know. I love them. It's unbelievable. Kirt Niram, Karen Chalene, Natalie Haynes, Glenda Winfield, Gregory Burr. Happy birthday to Athena. Yes. Yeah.

I don't know. She's wonderful. Robertson Simonon it might be simon robertson i'm not sure morgan schwartz uh michael schmidt kristin nope that's crystal ferguson joanne ahern jude kendall kyle francis kasina horton fata what fat asset fat fat asset hey i don't know kristin kristin brennan or is it drennan i have terror it's brennan i think carrie will carrie wilson anthony arzaga uh jessica stewart sarah seward uh don griggs boy oh boy s nope that's a z ziaxia that's not right either okay z-h-a-i-x-x-a damn it's like a

last name science fiction movie or that Lisa Tucker. Uh, Anthony sent me a money because he didn't like my bullshit. Um, uh, uh, Chipotle recipe and he would like us to go get real Chipotle. Uh, other producers are Karen, uh, Karen Bruce, joy, Wagner, uh, J Alder. What a J bird Ford. Damn it, Brian Bryce I think, Alex Manning Jesus Christ,

Ara Abrahamian No, Tara Jacobson Shannon with no last name, John Deck Alexa Tewalt Jennifer Klepaki Zara, nope that's Sarah Zalewski, that's why, because there's a Z in her last name, Jake cowley i think

specter would know last name loretta dylan chris would know last name alia maxi julia ransom mayra myra caitlin cha nope alexia nope that's alicia low uh dave greer david allen's yep obviously right uh kathleen ferguson mallory kennedy chris uh riddick ridding god damn it patrick allen patrick mccue carissa ryan jenny evans connor oh boy oh boy nugget that's the last name that didn't seem that bad it seems like you could have got that i'll make it difficult you got that uh roger was what miss spager sarah row eric hunt jeff dackle decal dilk no teresa boat girl in shirt what oh girl in shirt got it it's about the girl in the shirt uh katie jesse dustin manly jennifer lance joshua chandler alana uh Dustin Manley, Jennifer Lance, Joshua Chandler, Alana Cronard, Hunter Blake, Mikey Furley, Fairley, Trey Lifton, Litton, God damn it, Sarah with no last name, Christina Peters,

Alyssa Camacho, Stephen Gibbs, Cassie Gilbert, Josh McGrew, John Haberland, Grace, God damn it, Dyer, Davin, what, Davin, Devon, Dawn, Johnson. Jesus. Dawn Johnson. Dawn Johnson's not a hard name. The woman spelling of Dawn. Yes. Yeah, got it.

I wrote it terribly. Jessica Bennett, Michael Delancey, Peyton Brewer, Dirt Girl, Tamara Carpenter, Liz Line, Ryan Carter, Kate Peterson, Julie Ball, Janine Bonadel. It's Italian. That's why. Hey, you're going to mess it up. Alexis. Nope.

That's Alex Lopes. Kelly with no last name. Anthony and Cara Guglielmo. Guglielmo. I got it. Sorry, Paisans. Saskia Shepard. I'm going to fuck them all up.

What the fuck? Alicia. Nope. Yes. Elisa. Alita. Eubinius. Shepard fuck them all up what the fuck Alicia nope yes Elisa Alita Ebenius what collect yourself unbelievable Kyle Burkhardt Alexandra Pressler Robert Wagner probably not the one that killed that I assume Daniel Daniel Arnold uh Wolf with no last name John Miller

what's yeah he doesn't want to call himself out or the guy that cleans up murders mackenzie sanders joseph merkel james uh skeely sheely uh kiela kyla baker fuck alex do brennan would know last name shelby hart brianna angle probably kurt's daughter tyler copens coppins christina biasalo isaquera no robert robert lerma ricky shorts uh maron ahern lauren a g gianna ricky shorts and richard pants is his father cousin dicky socks yeah uh maron ahern i said that uh gianna young What is this? Allison Johns. Deanna Rodekap. Rodekap. Kelly Tyler Harrington.

Oh, that's what it is. Kelly and Tyler Harrington and their son, Mark McNugget or McNugget. He spelled it McNugget. I'll bet it's McNugget and he's fucked up. Natasha Zarnstraf. Daniel Brown. Hannah Kern. Sivan Perdue.

Sivan. Tracy Williams. Ashley Bart. What is this? Bart. Bart. Geez. Taylor Vista, Vasta, Lake Pasta, Hunter Knight.

We got a few more. Here we go. Megan and Jay to cars to Harsky. Rihanna Klein, Robin Hire, Jeff Barros. What is Molly? Molly? I think it's Molly. Get it? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's Molly, get it?

Yeah. I think that's right. No. Allie Thornton, Barb Goza, Eric Berg, Allison with no last name, Robert Thompson, Jordan Collard, Christine Semple, Darren Levinsky, Cynthia Dean, Amber Hart, Emma with no last name, Abe Brever, I think, Josh Pallas. Nope, that's placed. Jared Pitts, Melanie McGinnis, Teresa Brower, Amanda Scott Torelli, Torelli. breaver i think uh josh palace nope that's place jared pitts melanie mcginnis theresa brower amanda scott torelli to really jorey torres jonathan geiger martin linda burkett to get what linda

burger i broke it nickel nicole blaker uh mark tarzanelliol. Fuck. Sarah Billinghurst. Clayton Foster. Francesca Corendi. Corendi. Cheer up with no bitch. Taylor Mays. Joan Hutchison. Kyle Walker.

John. Nope. Yeah, that's John Cornejo. Corneo? Corneo. Cornejo. Hey, Corneo. It's possible.

George Wright. Joe Cassidy. McKenna Misfelt. Crystal Parker. Ben with no last name sab c and mccallan mccallan nadia blumstrand mark yoder jessica cummins megan okay he said k i gotta collect myself here's the thing i got it's my penmanship and people are like printed out bro i can't do that because i can't do it in order yeah it becomes more difficult alexis presson land uh lanelle ion 10 david malloy eric mcdonald patrick johnson trisha zavala eric

aaron everett martin lynch justin michael bard, Maria with no last name, Tiffany Kuipert, Aaron with no last name, ES, and her name's Emily. I don't know what her last name is. Megan Locke, Mark Howard, Ellen Jones, J.D. Fogerty, April Rush, Jessica Finch, Diane Taylor, Joe Gallagher, Eliud Uribe, Brandon Calvin, Robin Owens, Logan Beck, Samantha Koston, Mackenzie Vought, I think, Justina Pesavegis. Wow. Yeah, you sure about that? I think so. Dixie Hupp, Michelle Madel, Zach Michael, Andrew Freeman, Christopher Centori, Centorini,

Centorani, Joe Fogarty, Paige Midgley drew shockley tinelle tinelle bettenhouse alicia cox nathan nope that's just nate huffnagle uh what uh valerie lynn woods hey russell long i was super jacked elissa elizabeth uh airy hood timothy young dylan wayne stewart andrew chapman Andrew Chapman, Stacy Cole, Terrence Caliquit, Sarah Falco, James McMahon, Noah Delmfort, Katrina and Amanda, no last names, Jonathan Usery, Patrick Miller, James Dorsey, Trey Calhoun, Cassandra Schilling, William Gwild, Jennifer Brashears, Silas Ortegrin. It's his birthday. Hey, happy birthday. I'm not going to be good at this. Christian Clark, Hannah Corbett, James Curtis, Christina Johansson, Kate Tiro, Kelly with no last name, Tristan Ward, Brad Kane, Patricia Vincent, Brittany Grimes, Lisa Klein, Robert Esparza, Rebecca Perotti, Perotte, E. Bryant, Marina Buell, I think, Charles Lewis, Caitlin Gordy, Cheryl, nope, that's Cheryl, LaPrade, Tracy, I got

them both wrong, Tracy Stouffer, Tawny Lynn, Matthew Healy, Stephanie, oh boy, oh boy, Akadida, nope. You're almost there, Jimmy. Got hit with a curveball at the end. Lisa Byard, Evan Jade, Timothy Hamill, Tasha with no last name, Madeline Walker, Joshua or nope you're almost there jimmy got hit with a curveball at the end lisa byard evan jade uh timothy hamill tasha would know last name madeline walker joshua stuff sherry eckert hunter would know last name j030113 not a birth not a i don't know wow might be a birth i don't know probably the hell knows uh beth karnes yeah it's a prison number stephanie bogerman and all of our patron sponsors you

guys are the best thank you so much thank you everybody so much honestly we appreciate it yeah can't do this without you and uh just thank you for all of your support thank you for everything you do and we just hope to give it all back to you and more with the bonuses you truly saved my life thank you guys yeah you got me out of a marriage i couldn't afford to leave there you go so thank you in in terms of money or physical pain so there it is mental anguish heroes so that is pretty amazing that you did that what if they wanted to get a hold of you you can find me on social media i'm there at wisman sucks where are you i'm at jimmy p is funny you'll you'll know where to find just copy and paste names you know how to find people that said hope you enjoyed a

real weird one this week and uh we'll have more next week and next week up until december 22nd where we're going to skip a week and then we'll be back after that can't get rid of us correct that said live from the crime and sports studios we will see you next week Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.