Crime in Sports - #266 - Running From The Truth - The Amoralness of Rosie Ruiz

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

This week, we explore the life of a woman, who had a whole persona, built on lies. She won the Boston Marathon... but did she really? Is she a sick person, who can't help but lie, or a persecuted person, who never had her true accomplishments recognized? Either way, a life of crime is the result, including some fraud, and participation in an "all woman cocaine ring". After disappearing from the public eye, does she ever resurface?Come out of nowhere to win a marathon, be a part of an "all woman cocaine ring", and lie about just about everything with Rosie Ruiz!! Check us out, every Tuesday! !We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!!  Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail]  Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurder See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Looking for inspiration? Craving something new? When you visit Audible, there are endless ways to ignite your imagination. With over 750,000 titles, including bestsellers, there's a listen for every type of listener. Discover all the best in audiobooks, podcasts, and originals featuring authentic Canadian voices and celebrity talent like Brendan Fraser and Luke Kirby's latest sci-fi adventure, The Downloaded.

A first listen is waiting for you when you start your free trial at audible.ca. Each week on the Mr. Ballin Podcast, now available wherever you get your podcasts, you'll hear strange, dark, and mysterious stories about inexplicable encounters, shocking disappearances, true crime cases, and everything in between. So go listen to Mr. Ballin Podcast, strange, dark, and mysterious stories on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. An immense amount. We're so excited. We are. We're excited today for Crime and Sports. Why are we excited especially? Because between Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder, this is our 500th podcast episode.

So we're pretty excited. Our 500th together, not counting bonuses and all that. I mean, you can throw another 100-something in there for that. But in terms of release to the public free stuff, it's number 500 between this and Small Town Murder. So thank you, everybody there for, you know, allowing us to last 500 episodes so far. So we appreciate it. When we started,

we didn't know if we'd last five. So to make it to 500, we're pretty goddamn excited. And, uh, to 266 crime and sports as a matter of fact. So we're jacked today. We have a great,

we have a weird episode today for 500. I'm like, we're going to switch it up a little bit. Last week, it was like, you know, kind of the tried and true crime and sports formula of like big four sport. You know, baseball, basketball, football, hockey, big four U.S. sport. Baseball player did this, did that, blah, blah, blah. You know, ran over a guy's head. Very standard.

This not standard in the least. This is one of our strange episodes so i'm very excited for it first before we get started i want to thank everyone who's for five for 266 episodes of these but 500 total episodes giving us your reviews they do help a lot if you haven't done it yet do that apple podcast for 500 it's a good time to do it yeah say you doesn't matter what you say just say something give us five stars it helps a lot so uh do that head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now for everything crime and sports and small town murder all your merchandise you're gonna get there we have everything there's you you name it there's bags and cups and mugs and shower curtains and floor mats and blankets and

shoes and you name it it's on there so check that out and get all your merchandise new stuff up all the time get your tickets to live shows you better because we sure hope they're coming back here in the fall we are dying to be on the road we we're telling you we're dying to do this so get your tickets there unbelievable we know they're going fast so get up there and get your tickets now so uh some of them have been on sale for a year and a half with delays and everything. So a lot of them were pretty heavily sold back then. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. So much going on this week.

Ooh, man, it's a banner week on Patreon this week. A couple of really fun ones. And you get access to all the Patreon for Crime and Sports and small town murder anybody over the five dollar level for the crime and sports episode we are going to talk about the uh when the congressional steroid investigation oh back in uh was it 2005 and six and all that where uh you know uh the marfiel palmero pointing his finger saying he's not doing basically a line of guys that all did a shitload of steroids sitting up there going how dare you ask me about steroids it is a bunch of liars hilarious we're going to talk about that and that kind of goes into our episode today with cheating and things like that and for the small town murder one i'm so excited about this this is you're going

to love this we're going to talk about if the possibility of if Ted Bundy only had more socks, this whole his entire tragic, disgusting life could have been avoided. This whole path. It's a theory. He could be your congressman right now. You know what I'm saying? If he only had more socks and not a murderer. I'm telling you, it's a weird thing, and a little bit more than that,

but a couple of weird theories on Ted Bundy from his interviews that we're going to talk about that I don't think anyone's ever talked about, so we're going to get into that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Crazy stuff. Hope you enjoy it, because we do. And you'll also get a shout-out.

Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show while trying to say it correctly, because, damn it, we're grateful. So thank you, because get a shout out. Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show while trying to say it correctly because, damn it, we're grateful. So thank you because you're a producer. And if you just want to be a producer and get your name said at the end of the show, you can do that over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Yes. Let's do this.

All right. Let's get into it, Jimmy, shall we? I would love to. Here we go. We are going to talk about a lady today. Oh, yeah. A lady. Because it's the 500th episode of our total.

So I'm like, we hardly ever get to talk about ladies on this show. There's like seven. Yeah. I mean, think about it. What have we had so far? Sally McNeil. Yeah. We had Sunny.

We had Kelly Lane. Yeah. We had- Mandy Malone. Yeah. We had Sonny. We had Kelly Lane. Yeah. We had Mandy Malone. Mandy Malone, of course. Jesus, Tanya Harding. Yeah. I mean, I'm running out. I mean, we had what?

Hope Solo and Jeremy Stevens. Yeah. That wasn't really even her. That was just her involvement with that idiot. Mainly. It's a little bit her. I mean, shit. It's really.

I know i'm forgetting somebody very obvious there's at least one but it doesn't matter not a lot of them is what we're getting at here so oh uh jennifer capriani there you go and uh oh and nicole bobeck nicole bobeck yeah who was that was one of the craziest and a lot of these are some of the kelly lane sally mcneil bobeck harding these are some of the Kelly Lane, Sally McNeil, Ballback, Harding. These are some of the craziest episodes we've had. Unbelievable stories. Unbelievable stories. Today, we are going to talk about a woman named Rosie Ruiz.

Oh. Do you know who Rosie Ruiz is, Jimmy? No. I mean, anybody knows a Rosie Ruiz somewhere, I'm sure. I mean, yeah. That sounds very popular. It's like saying, do you know a uh you know a bill smith yeah probably i mean not off the top of my head but i could probably dig one up pretty

quick you know i'll bet you there's a thousand pablo francisco's that don't do comedy james probably yeah that don't have rip roaring substance problems so there would be a lot of those probably so boy we root for pablo too god damn it he's a super nice guy treats his openers like way better than you should treat openers even like like really make it blows their heads up a little bit makes them to feel too good about themselves uh he's a good guy what he does james is that he takes all the hatred and anger he should focus on on shit bags and local comics and openers and he forces it upon himself. Yeah.

He just hates himself. I don't know. On his own internal organs. I'm stunned by it. It's sad to see. But yeah, it's it's. Wow. So anyway, Rosie here, though, Rosie, if you know who Rosie Ruiz is, still buckle up because you won't be surprised by what happens.

But you will still enjoy the episode because we're obviously going to give you probably more details than you've had before. But let's get right into this. Born on June 21st, 1953. Yeah. In Havana, Cuba. Beautiful. So she is, yeah, she's born. This is pre-Castro, Cuba she's born in. She's born in Batista, Cuba. This is, you know, she's born, this is pre-Castro Cuba she's born in.

She's born Batista Cuba. This is, you know, Mob Casinos Cuba. Yeah. You know, corrupt. Corrupt government Cuba. You know, well, not that the one now is any better, but a different kind of corrupt government there, obviously. So, yeah, so it's a different time there. So we're talking i mean

ricky ricardo is on tv yeah desi arnaz is a you know people are like those cubans are wonderful they're just wonderful in the midwest people were like we should have oh my goodness those cubans are fabulous they're delightful i want to dye my hair red and marry one i wish i knew some yeah i wish i knew some here in des moines but i don't so she's born in havana she moves to florida in 1962 gorgeous so yeah she gets the that's that's post castro that's there was a lot of uh cubans trying to get the hell out of there at that point so really yeah oh yeah that's when castro came in so things were were different if you i mean if you were a revolutionary i guess times were good for you but if you like like owned a business or something and it was probably cuba wasn't going to be a great place for you

after they it was taken and all that shit so you know things changed a lot when castro came in there obviously so after she came in she ended up she moved here with her mother they had they had to leave her father behind oh um there yeah he couldn't come so that's that was tough on her she said uh somehow she's separated from her mother when she's a young girl here uh she moves here yeah she moves here when she's nine and somehow in the first year she's here she in florida she uh gets separated from her mother and ends up having to live with aunts and uncles and cousins and kind of around the family because she has family there so i mean but that's nice they're taking her in and people are you know trying to help out they came over from it's kind of what

you get in an immigrant thing too like it's same like with italians used to be too like if someone comes over there you take care of them you try to you try to help them along because you're trying to get as many people over as you can if you think it's better basically so um yeah so she ended up living in hollywood florida for a while uh through the late 60s uh she also in 1972 she graduated from high school great she graduates from south broward high school yeah so um yeah she uh now her aunt uh lives in coral gables and uh her aunt's name is maria grovis she says that she hadn't spoke and this is you know 30 years later she still hadn't spoken to rosie ever since the day in the 70s when she just uh uh when she she went to college and then just she left college

and stopped talking to her a lot of her family really yeah like she never talked to her aunt again who she lived with before that that's weird which is extremely strange she went to uh wayne state college in nebraska uh-huh which i don't know anything about that but it says she was there for two years yeah and um yeah this and she ended up just like i said cutting off all relations with her aunt who was her father's sister so even if the father's not there you think he'd want to be close to some part of his family um she said the the aunt said that she had helped rosie obtain an academic scholarship to wayne state really helped her do all the paperwork and helped her get us so she went on a scholarship to college yeah she's very smart rosie yeah that's the college that bruce put together for underprivileged children i believe so i believe I believe so. Also, there's a there's a bat suit weaving class that they take.

It's very difficult program to get in there. But if you get in, there's there's awful. They have the School of Alfred out back to which is a different one. It teaches secretive bottling. It's a secretive bottling. How to how to clean a nuclear powered car when it comes in from the road, things like that. There's a lot of different tips.

And then how to file your taxes for that. That's the thing, because what do you put that under? You just have to, and no one's going to say, think you make that much bottling, so you really have to. You know, 10.99 from Bruce? You got to start like an S-Corp. It's a real complicated mess. So there's a lot of

encompassing everything from changing your your boss's cod piece out to uh the tax ramifications of incorporation as a butler well also figuring out medical uh treatment for bullet wounds and stab wounds oh you have to do all of that you never know like uh you know dress wounds some sort of weird whip, homemade cat claws. There's all sorts of different things that you can. You got to dress those wounds at the same time as making high tea. Yeah, that's it. Funny, weird Joker explosives will mess you up.

There's a lot of stuff going on. There's really a lot to deal with if you're an Alfred. There's a lot. You got to sit home. You don't know what's going to come through that door at the end of the night i got a clue he could come in and just go ah jesus throw the keys to the batmobile down and be like ah rough night jesus christ take the fucking hat off and throw it down and like man yeah take care of that for me alfred yeah just boring out there not a lot going on or he might come in like wounded with an explosion thing and half his

cod piece blown off and the batmobile's on three wheels and now you have to deal with this this is now your problem you gotta get blood out of there as well as all the sweat all this type of shit you gotta have the suit ready for tomorrow night and you gotta find somebody very secretive to fix a nuclear powered batmobile which is not easy they don't make that a lot all at one state do you call those foreign? We do imports. Do you call those mechanics? Who do you call for that? I don't know. Who's got expertise in the Navy?

I don't know who you call. We don't know because we don't have a PhD from Wayne State. That's why. Damn it. Well, she almost did, apparently. Okay. But she just left, apparently. She left.

She took off on her scholarship. She was two years in and just ghosted the college. She goes to college to college and everybody just ghosted him, which is a different time. I guess so. Her aunt said, quote, she left without my consent. Of course, I wanted her to stay. She was very bright. And so, yeah, Mark Stub stubbs who's the director of college relations

at wayne state she only he would only tell the press that she was once a student there for approximately a year and a half okay so yeah she was in the middle of her sophomore year he said exactly what time frame i can't tell you i can tell you that she did not graduate and no one knows where she is oh no that's later on's later on. So that's later on. We're talking here. So according to Rosie's aunt, she left school to be with her mother in Miami. So apparently her mother was lonely at the time and wanted her daughter to be with her. So she left a academic scholarship to move to miami to be with

her mother because mom's got the sads today yeah i think it'd probably be easier for mom to move to nebraska then come on out here i'll introduce you a nice cow i'm on a full ride here what are you fucking talking about they're paying for me to be here do you understand that this is free like i gotta i can't leave this shit this is wild and in the 70s that's when a college education still meant something oh my god it meant everything then if you graduated from college in 1975 you were considered you know somewhat of a somebody to hire you could go apply for jobs now they're like who cares people believed shit that came out of your mouth then now it's like i don't give a fuck what book you read.

I don't believe anything you said. Everybody's been to college now. Who cares? Yeah, great. You went to, what was that? Southern New Hampshire TV college? I don't give a shit. Or whatever they advertise.

I'm not. That might be great school. I'm just, that's the one I remember from University of Phoenix. We don't give a shit. You went to DeVry. Good for you. Yeah. You went to four, or even regular college.

Unless you go to like a big school or go for something obviously very specialized, nobody gives a shit about your liberal arts diploma from fucking the University of Wisconsin. Right. What are you going to do with that now? I mean, it's more than I have. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

I'm impressed, but I'm just saying you can't just go out and be like, boom, you're going to hire me now for a living wage with health insurance. People will be like, no, no, I don't think so. You drink beer football games. I know what you did. You can possibly assistant manager's Burger King. We'll talk to you after that. It's fucking it sucks.

Yeah, really sucks. But back then it meant something. And she she took off, though, which is just so strange. And she she took off, though, which is just so strange. And, yeah, she left there. And she said that the father never ended up coming to America. The aunt said, quote, he never came to America. He was in farming. He had businesses.

And then came Fidel Castro. And he just lost everything. So, yeah. So that was that, basically. And then he just stayed there for some reason. So, yeah. So that was that, basically. And then he just stayed there for some reason. So, yeah. They eventually, the father and mother eventually divorce. You know, living in separate countries is kind of a...

Yeah, that hastens it. Yeah. And it's not like they can go back and forth and visit each other either. That's the other problem. So you're kind of stuck literally with, you know, governments in between you. There's nothing you can do with that. So Rosie, at some point between 1974, when she moves to Miami to be with her mother and 1979, when we catch up with her in public, she moves to New York City at some point in that in that frame. I'm not sure when she gets a job for a company named Metal Traders Inc.

Which metal like, you know, like a metal. Yeah. Trading metal, I guess. I don't know if they're just, I don't know if they're trading like steel commodities or like if they're actually, if it's actual metal. I have no idea. metal i have no idea so i i don't know what kind of office this is if it's one of those concrete floored offices with like a big warehouse or if it's just a carpeted office where they're just doing everything on or is it even an office is it just a fucking scrapyard with uh dirt exactly and a crane out back with a big magnet on it yeah i'm this is what i'm picturing okay i'm either

picturing a regular like a corporate office where they're doing everything on paperwork or the uh facility from Tommy Boy. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Where it's all like there's sparks flying and they're shipping and forklifts and shit. And then there's like a little tiny box of an office with like, you know, all sorts of stuff stacked everywhere. And like one person in it typing away on the. Everybody has a hard hat.

The books. Yeah. Even in the office, they have a hard hat. That's either one of those. Metal Traders, Inc. At the time, she's doing well for herself. She's responsible, upstanding citizen. She is in her mid-20s.

She's making $17,000 a year. Great. Which in 19, that's about 56 000 now from then this is in the late 70s so not so great but okay for a single person in their mid-20s that's cool you can you know she could live in the new york in the 70s as cheap as fuck you could do because it's yeah you could get a shit some apartment for cheap and you know you could have a nice little life there so um yeah she had a bunch of friends and uh you know everybody likes her so she's very charming and uh you know blah blah blah she tells everybody that she graduated from college with good grades by the way so that's

she didn't quite do that but everybody's fudged a little bit to get a job you know you go to college for a year and a half yeah i, I graduated. I was there. It's close enough. I know stuff. What do they care? What the fuck did the last two years of college going to matter at Metal Traders, Inc.? What are we talking about? Was she going to learn something about aluminum alloys or not? Probably not.

She wasn't going for chemistry, so what's the goddamn difference? She was actually, her major was music so yeah yeah i don't know how that yeah it's fine but i don't know if she was like a composer or anything i don't know how successful it came out i don't think it's gonna be kanye maybe not let's hope not christ so um he's a talented motherfucker i to say, let's hope so for the first like 10 years. Let's hope so. Yeah. And then some bitch makes unbelievable music.

Well, let's, let's, let's adjust your tenses. Chief makes. Yeah. Let's, let's go with made some great shit. Some very impressive things. Yeah. And then he stopped. Then he stopped.

Yeah. Look at all the beats he did for other people and you're like god damn like that's incredible he did a lot of good stuff and you're like what happened now yeah what happened so um and i'm not even talking about the outside of shit just the music is not as good right yeah but he does have a lot of mental issues psychosis that he battles and i'm sure that that is absolutely playing into it. No one in music has ever had psychosis. Get the fuck out of here with that. Come on, dude. I'm not selling it short. I'm not selling that short. Have you seen his fucking shoes and clothes?

It's overboard. That guy's nuts. Yeah, but do you remember the David Robinsons? You could have said that about him. You know what I'm saying? Even he was as straight-laced as they come. You can't go by shoes. Those things look like he landed on Mars. But David mars allowed somebody else to make those and he just signed them he said cool those i'll wear those in public no problem this is kanye with a computer fucking in his face and he's making shoes and that's the problem he's making shoes that's how you know it's

not an issue they look and i'm not selling his mental issue short obviously he's got you know problems that are you know whatever not selling his mental issues short. Obviously, he's got problems that are whatever. Not talking shit on that. I'm just saying there's plenty of people in music with lots of fucking problems. I mean, Christ almighty, people throughout time can't even stand up and they're making fucking music. You can make great music in all sorts of different states of debilitation. Figure the fuck out, Yee yeezy yeah figure it out well the also too if you read shit about him before he was never like he wasn't like fine

and then he turned into kanye he was always like this nobody ever wanted him around people he was annoying to people they thought he was a fucking asshole back in the day he's always been weird literally they were like man does he have to fucking be here? That dude's so annoying. That's what people would say. Like, you know, music people are like, that guy annoys the fuck out of me. Get him the fuck out of here. Like, I don't even give a shit how good his beats are. I can't stand him.

And then it's fucking crazy. And then once you make a hit, it's like, you know what? He's not so bad. Yeah, let's call that guy around. You know what? Yeah, that guy that made that giant hit. You know what? I think I might want to talk to him again.

Let's laugh at him later, but let's have him around hypocrites yeah fucking hypocrites so uh october of 1979 here uh rosie she um or i'm sorry this is uh earlier before this in 1973 through the 70s there are she says she has uh brain surgery twice oh no um in 1973 she uh had an operation apparently on her to remove a tumor a benign tumor that was the size of a tangerine oh no very large brain tumor that seems like big i don't know what how do you does that even fit in your head yeah you think you'd look like stewie griffin after a while if you had something that big in your head like it would shut out the side i mean well i mean i guess the skull would keep it in inside but the where's the brain go then yeah that's where i'm going like that seems like that would hurt you'd pick your nose and poke your brain. How? I just forgot algebra.

Fuck. It just seems like that would hurt when it's the size of a golf ball. Like, don't you get that check when it's that little? She was having blackouts and all this type of shit and dizziness and falling down and fainting episodes. So that's why she got checked out. And that's what ended up happening. Her doctors then told her um that

the tumor was benign though and after some um i don't know just rehabilitation in 1978 her doctor told her that she could resume or all normal activities so um so she decided that she was going to due to her health being good now, she is going to run in the New York City Marathon. That's what she's decided. So she said she does it. She missed the sign-up date is the problem. So she asks for, basically tries to get a special dispensation telling them that she has a brain tumor. She fudged a little though she said it was a malignant brain tumor and that she only has a year to live so because

they told they told her you can't sign up it's too late to sign up for the 79 and so you got to sign up for the you know october 80 and she said i'll be dead by then that'll be you know that's going to be a little rough for me i gotta check my yeah i'm gonna be dead by then. That'll be, you know, that's going to be a little rough for me. I got to check my, yeah, I'm going to be dead by then. I got looked at my book. Past this date, I just have dead on the pages. So I'm not going to make it. The doctor gave me a calendar.

He said he didn't want to give me the date I would be dead, but he did rip out the last four months of next year. He just said, you're not going to need to eat. Fucking threw him in the garbage. So I don't know what that means. It means I i'm not gonna schedule anything for that is what it means so i'm gonna need to do it this year or not at all basically so they told her fine they gave her a special dispensation uh to be able to run in the 1979 marathon it was a it's a medical dispensation that apparently is available to others. It's a

kind of a special waiver. And yes, one of the Patricia Owens, who is a New York City marathon official, who she was one of the people looking over these applications. She said, quote, I remember seeing the application. I remember showing it to Fred Liebau, who was the director of the marathon. And he said we should let her run.bao who was the director of the marathon and he said we should let her run he thought it was the right thing to do they felt bad for him i mean there's so many fucking people in a marathon what is one more lady all right who's gonna die in the in the masses of people really fucking matter honestly like who cares also she's she's a brain cancer patient she's probably not gonna finish finish. What's it matter?

Yeah, she could be dead by the finish line on top of that. And before that, even anything else, also, maybe this is a nice story for us. You know what I mean? A nice – hey, the marathon's nice. They let people with terminal brain cancer run. Look at you. Who knows what – I know that's very cynical to think that way. But, I mean, people are – yeah, cynical to think people are concerned with PR isn't really cynical.

So now she like I said, she was ready to do this and she wanted to do this and she runs in the marathon. It is her first marathon that she's run. OK, so she said she's been training and all that sort of thing. She finishes 621st. Okay. Which is not bad, actually. That's better than I do. Yeah.

I would finish in the, I don't know, got left at a restaurant. Yeah. Within the first two miles. I'm not finishing. No. Not even close. I wouldn't even watch the end of the race i'd just be like i'm going to make it to the first water break i guarantee it well let's be honest how far

in that is but i can't make it that far how early do they start a marathon pretty early right it's pretty early in the morning i'm not going probably just based on that i'd have the best of intentions and i'd be like i'm not getting up at seven o'clock fuck out of here with that i don't need to be there am i getting paid for this no what am i getting up at 7 o'clock. Fuck out of here with that. I don't need to be there. Am I getting paid for this? No. What am I getting up for then? You don't got to wake up pretty early to put anything by James. Just wake up around 10.

Yeah. You still put it by him. Unless it's for money or something I have to do with my kids, I'm not getting up early. It's just not. I'm not doing it. I've reached a point in my life where i've dedicated my shit i'm a comedian yeah this is what i do this is my job i don't need to be up at fucking 7 a.m so you know breakfast is pizza around one that's about right maybe a bagel maybe a bagel at 12 30

some orange juice that's that's as that's as You never drank coffee in the first place, huh? Nah, I always didn't like coffee. I fucking love it. I love the smell of it, though. Yeah. I love the smell of coffee. Oh, I want people to make coffee. I just don't want to drink it.

I'm like, that's disgusting. I don't know what you're doing there. Brew that shit and pour it out, would you? Pour me a cup and I'm just going to smell it for a while. I've done that. I've walked around smelling coffee. It smells so good. But I just don't want to drink it for a while. I've done that. I've walked around smelling coffee. It smells so good. But I just don't want to drink it.

I have no desire whatsoever. That's basically the reason I wake up every day is because I fucking love coffee. It's a problem. Well, yeah, you're addicted to coffee. Yeah. Yeah, that's true, too. Well, I guess it's love.

You can be addicted to and love cocaine at the same time. I think that's true. It's not mutually exclusive. So yeah, you can love coffee and need it to survive. I'm not addicted to cigarettes anymore, but I fucking do love them. There you go. They're wonderful. Yeah.

Imagine if cigarettes were good for you. That's always been the biggest answer. Forget if they were good for you. Just imagine if they didn't hurt you. Neutral. I'd be fine with that. Like if they were like celery. You know what I mean? Like they don't have any nutritional value. They don good for you. Just imagine if they didn't hurt you. Neutral. I'd be fine with that. Like if they were like celery. You know what I mean?

Like they don't have any nutritional value. They don't hurt you. They just go in your body and get out of your body. That would be amazing. The greatest. I would smoke four packs a day. I would love it. I would.

I'd be like, I'd have like a cigarette holder. I'd just put a new one in there. I'd be like, this is great. I'd have them sitting out on the table. Cigarette. It'd be like. Why not? It'd be like the 50 is the great. I'd have them sitting out on the table. Cigarette. It'd be like. Why not? Like the 50s.

It doesn't hurt you. Doesn't do anything for you. Yeah, but it doesn't hurt you. Doesn't hurt you, though. Isn't it great? Be the greatest. I want it. Make it so.

Doesn't hurt you, but it makes you feel wonderful after a plate of spaghetti. It's just the best. So good. So anyway, she and don't smoke, everybody. We're not saying smoking's good. We're saying it's so good. And if you smoke, whatever. I'm not going to stop you.

But if you don't smoke, don't fucking start. Oh, yeah. Don't start smoking. I don't know why anybody would do that. I was reading something. Where the fuck was this? Yeah. I can't remember what it was, but it was somebody's account of something.

It was an old person accounting back of something, and they were talking about it was the 30s yeah and something was wrong with them i don't know they went to the doctor and they said the doctor suggested i take up smoking so i did and i'm like imagine going to the doctor and he's like i'd like to see you up to about half a half a pack maybe a pack a day what do you say imagine that that's this person's life was i'd like you to take up smoking i think it'd be good for you your blood pressure's a bit low i'd like you to have a few cigarettes every day it'll it'll perk you up tell you what so i don't know what the fuck i don't know how we got there so 621st is what we're saying yeah she finishes which is a time of two hours and 56

minutes that's incredible which is very good yeah it's very good um so you know they talked to her she because she was like she had this medical dispensation it's her first marathon she finished with a decent time they cut a tangerine out of her head yeah she taught that's the other thing there's a tangerine somewhere it's head. Yeah, that's the other thing. There's a tangerine somewhere. Somewhere there's a paperweight shaped like a tangerine on some neurologist's head. I took that out of a Cuban immigrant. Yeah, I took this out of a lady named Rosie's head, and now she finished 621st in the marathon. So she said that she's been training all over Manhattan, basically. She's just been spending her time running all over Manhattan, which in the late 70s,

for anybody to spend their time running all over the island of Manhattan, your odds of being murdered or at least severely injured in a mugging are about 4,000%. So I don't know how she'd even survive that. Perhaps that's why she ran, James. Yeah. So she's, you know what? She's fast. That's how it works. Right.

I would walk, but their chances of getting hurt are much higher when I walk. I guess if you're fast enough, you don't really have to worry. You don't have to worry about shit. If Usain Bolt was walking down the street and they were like, give me your wallet, he'd be like, fuck you, and just take off. Dude would go to run after him and just be like, Jesus, now this guy's three blocks away already i have no i don't even never mind he earned his own wallet well that's why i guess that's why he had looked like he had money pretty fast so uh her time though uh two hours and 56 minutes is good enough to qualify rosie

to run in the boston marathon awesome which is the big one i guess here you have to qualify Rosie to run in the Boston Marathon. Awesome. Which is the big one, I guess, here. You have to qualify for that thing? Yeah, yeah, I guess you have to qualify. You can't just run? I think you can. I don't know if you have to. There's so many fucking people.

I don't know how the application process works to this marathon, especially in 1970, 1980, which this is now the 1980 marathon for Boston. Taylor Swift is soaring high, her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans. She's broken billboard records and made Grammys history, not to mention becoming a billionaire in the process. But along the way, Taylor has had to wage war, first by taking on a very powerful, very famous manager, Scooter Braun, and then by going up against the biggest live events company, Ticketmaster. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondery's show, Business Wars.

We go deep into some of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time. And in our latest season, Taylor Swift will shake up not only the music business, but Hollywood and the NFL. Follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that.

Bing! The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face. I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases.

She wanted to fight me. Leave her alone. OK, so, um. Not this is not a so. This is a period. Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor This is not a so. This is a period. Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor.

You married his cousin. His brother. That's not him. Yes, ma'am. I would make a beeline for the door. The Emmy Award-winning series returns. How did I know that? I have a crystal ball in my head. It's an all-new season.

It's streaming. You can say anything judy justice only on freebie uh she gets the number w50 which is the 50th ranked woman runner okay coming in so she's the it's not bad top 50 at all yeah i'm not top 50 in running for anything, so that's pretty good. Of any gender, any age bracket. I'm convinced if you got a bunch of like 75-year-old guys that were in really good shape, they could probably outrun me in a marathon. For sure. I'm sure they could if they were in like real good shape.

I'm barely top 50 uh in under my own roof ever yeah in anything no shit so her boss here is a guy named john emptage he is the president of metal traders inc and he is a marathoner as well that's how rosie got started in this she said was people in the office starting starting from her boss here. And he learned he didn't know that she was even running in marathons. And then she learned that somebody that works for him ran a sub three hour marathon. Yeah. And he was like, holy shit, this is great. So he and this is this was in the newspaper that he generously offered to pay her way to Boston.

Wow. He's going to, I'll pay for your hotel. I'll put you up. I'll do all that. And yeah, so that's what he said. So it's a feel good story. Sure. You know, here she goes and she's training for it, he's saying.

He's very proud of her. And everybody's rooting for her just to, you know, to finish it and do well and, you know, not grow another tumor. Yeah. rooting for just to you know to finish it and do well and you know not to grow another tumor yeah so april of 1980 is the boston marathon and um this obviously is a it's a big event yeah and uh i think it was kind of it was bigger has it gotten less big or more big i don't know the bombings uh the bombings kind of slowed it a bit yeah it makes it a little less desirable once they but i'm gonna be honest that's when i found out about it oh really i always i guess on the east coast you hear about it probably yeah i'm telling you west of the mississippi i don't know shit that that happens out there can you know i mean i just found out that there was that there's parades for

all kinds of shit in new york i just found out about that like fucking 10 years ago. I knew nothing of this stuff. They love a parade in New York, man. For everything. Yeah, they will parade the shit out of anything. Any kind of holiday, celebrate a guy. You don't even know who it is. You're like, I guess there's a parade.

I don't know. Every ethnic group gets a parade. Everybody gets one. If there's just every random Korean war vet just gets their own parade, it doesn't matter. You just get parades here. It gets one. If there's just every random Korean war vet just gets their own parade, it doesn't matter. You just get parades here. It's incredible. Anyway, she

goes to the Boston Marathon, and she runs in the marathon. She wears this wreath around her head, like a Greek-looking, with leaves on it and shit. She's got that on her head. She's 26 at the time. And she finishes the Boston Marathon in a time of two hours, 31 minutes, and 56 seconds.

She shaved like half an hour. Which is three minutes ahead of the second-place woman. She wins the Boston Marathon for women. Wow. By three minutes. By three minutes over a woman named Jacqueline Giraud of Montreal. Remember that name. We'll hear about her.

Jacqueline Giraud. Garou. Might be Garou. I'm going to go with Garou. Jacqueline Garou. So, yeah, she cut 25 minutes off her previous time at the New York Marathon, which was only, what, seven months earlier, six months earlier, which isn't bad. And they said she kind of like, you know, she nonchalantly accepted the wreath and she accepted the medal from the governor and, you know, was kind of like shocked by the whole thing. They said she seemed like she was in like a like a what?

What the fuck? Really? I won. Holy shit. Like she was wandering around, which anybody I would think that just from lack of oxygen after running for 26 miles would make you like fucking not really that with it. Sure. You probably couldn't recite your kids names if you had more than two at that point.

You'd be like, I don't know. It's little Johnny. Hey, Cynthia'd be like i don't know there's little johnny hey uh cynthia and uh fuck i don't know there's a blonde one and a little fuck i don't know one of us round hair or something i'm not sure you probably remember the first one and the last one and forget any in between you thirsty i'm thirsty could use a drink barely talk i'm be honest with you who's thirsty okay my lungs are on fire a fire absolute terrible the that feeling alone i can't believe people do that for fun what's your doctor what's your doctor told me to take up smoking and then this is what happens yeah how is that fun the lung burn alone is crazy it hurts hurts so bad. Marathon running is one of those things that you have to, it has to almost be your identity because you can't, it's not a hobby.

Yeah. You really have to dedicate a lot of your lifestyle to it or else it's going to be. Yeah, it's everything. It's everything you drink. It's everything you eat. It's everything you do. I can't. I have a marathon coming up.

Why are you doing this marathon, man? You have a job. The cardio. Yeah. Yeah. And I've known people who've done this, too. Yeah, me too. I mean, I guess they get a sense of accomplishment from it and a thing of, you know, especially people who get into shape to do it.

I've known people that have done that and then they feel good because they feel like they've accomplished a goal at the end of that. So I guess that's good. But uh i mean these people who do it like competitively yeah to win i'm like man that is uh that's a crazy skill it's a crazy skill to find out you have you know how the fuck do you find out you have that skill i bet i can run for like 30 miles more than anybody else like better than anyone it must be it must be an eye-opening experience when you're like i can tolerate how much on fire my insides are right now because i can't yeah i'm i can't either i already know no i can't tolerate that absolutely not i mean how how would you like i said how would

you know you're good at it like you can get like hey me and you i can throw you a basketball we can go to the hoop and you know one of us will discover a talent and be like, holy shit, one of us is really good at this or whatever. And we'd be playing it. But you can't go to a kid like, let me race you. No, no, not till the end of the block. That's for pussies. To the next city.

I want to race you for three fucking hours. How about that? Yeah, I want to race you. Where are you from? There. That's where we're going to race to. Your childhood fucking home. It's a weird thing.

It's so far. It's so far. Yeah, your lungs burn. Your whole body burns. Your legs give out, like you're saying. That's brutal, man. And then your balls chafe. Your nipples bleed.

Their nipples fucking bleed, man. Oh, when they're doing this this their bodies are telling them that this is not okay that's the thing in so many different ways their bodies like dude stop don't do this to us your body it's not handling it nobody's body's meant for this and i get that you're you're pushing it to the extreme but your your your body is telling you no right it really is it's telling you no the same way the same way the guy that you know that eats fucking every bit of ham and pork and get his hands on and weighs 300 pounds and he has to go out of the chair his body's telling the same thing your body's telling you you guys are no

different so you don't think you're any better with your bleeding nipples at least his nipples are in good shape they're stretched but listen they're not bleeding and the guy that the guy that you're doing this that it's named after fucking died when he did this according to mythology i don't even know if it's real or not but we'll talk about that yeah that's we'll get into that so uh she gets her medal she heads over to the parking garage apparently where they have a half hour media session with her. I don't know why they're doing it in a parking garage, but apparently that's where it is. And, you know, she gives answers. She says, yeah, she's been running about 65 miles a week for the last three months.

Wow. And so she's been doing it. She says she was asked about what are your split? What's your split? And she said, I don't know what that is. Submarathon or? And she said, I don't know what that is. It's a marathoner term. She said, I don't know what that is. She says she wears her watch during races but doesn't like to look at it

because she doesn't want to like, you know, doesn't want to put, you know, you don't look behind you. That's not what you do. She said that when she entered the marathon the new york marathon last year she put on her on her application that her expected or anticipated time of finishing was about four hours and 10 minutes so that's what she said and she put also put on the sheet that The fastest she'd ever run a mile is five minutes and 30 seconds. So you can do math there. 26, that's a lot.

Yeah, okay. But 26, too, that's balls out for a mile you're running pretty much. You're not running five-minute miles for 26 miles. Yeah, you're not matching your pace for a one mile on a 26 mile, for Christ's sake. She said, as they were giving her the laurel wreath, she said, it's hard to figure out. It's hard to figure out. She said, quote, I paced myself off the men. And since it was my only only my second race, I'm not familiar with watching out for where everybody is.

She said that she doesn't recall. She recalled no splits for the intermediate distances. And they had to explain to her what that was. And they said, you don't even look like you look great. Like you just you look like you don't even look that fatigued. You don't think you're going to die. Basically, you don't look terrible. And she said, I got up with a lot of energy this morning and worked out great.

You know, so that's it. Yeah. Look at me. I look great. You don't. Yeah, look at me. That's why I look great. You don't get it. Right. You're not getting it at all here.

You should see my mom. She looks better than me. She's 76 years old. She is the Boston Marathon Women's Champion in only her second race. Grace. Yeah? This is Grace. Oh, yeah.

This is definitely Grace. Hard Grace. Hard Grace. grace yeah this is this is grace oh yeah this is definitely grace hard grace so hard hard grace so um uh there's a runner here this guy dylan is his last name he says quote i chased chase chase chase chase chase chased those yellow shorts i fell short i was closing i finished 44 seconds behind her i was coming on like a freight train but i just ran out of space i had more okay i had more and uh after the race here this guy uh approached the uh jacqueline garo the second place woman she was the one with the yellow shorts that he was chasing the whole time and he says i'm saying quote congratulations did you win and she says no and he laughed but then she wasn't laughing so he's thinking no i'm thinking i got third no way

two women passed me i'm standing there and i have my hands on my hips and i'm like who beat you this is the guy talking to her and she's uh quote she looks at me and she points i look up there's billy rogers who's like he wins the marathon every year. He's like the standard marathon guy. He's the first. The next year, though, he loses it to a Japanese guy who's like 24 years old. So this is like his last. Okay.

This is like his peak of this is his grace right here. So Bill Rogers, he says, quote, I look up and there's bill rogers and there's this woman and i went her how did she beat you she says i never saw her uh her boyfriend uh and her boyfriend was there with this other guy who was her agent and they said quote we never saw her either she just there she was she just won the whole thing so as you can imagine everybody at her job went fucking nuts yeah when she won the race because they're all a bunch of runners yeah and their co-worker just won the boston marathon so that's pretty big deal yeah i would think you know is there prize money for that do you get anything

i think you do an award right they give you a medal i know and uh reef and then you go on all the you know you go on like the today show and you I'm sure you can go around and do speaking gigs probably and I'm sure there's I'm sure there's something attached to that level of they're fucking well better be there has to be because you don't just do that to make you otherwise all marathon running is is just you know for personal goals which is I mean I guess that's fine but it doesn't seem fun personal ego stroke too i guess yeah just to set goals for yourself to beat and it's all i can imagine so uh her boss again john emptage emptage emptage sure uh now he by the way he also owned Hampton Party Tents is another one of his business. Okay.

Yeah. He says that they went crazy when they found out that she was the winner. Quote, we're all in there with the radios blaring. And he says there's about 40 employees here. He says, quote, and we hear the winner, Rosie Ruiz from New York City. It went crazy. Everyone was jumping up and down. All was wonderful. Rosie comes back wearing her crown into the

office and everyone was really thrilled for her. All of a sudden, though, the phone started ringing. Tons of questions and then it turned into a madhouse down there. Yeah, it's a circus. Now, the reason is, this was her second marathon and she

ran it in the third fastest time of any woman in recorded history. Third fastest. Third fastest in the history of womanhood. Second time she's ever tried. Second time. Okay. So, I mean, shit. People are good at things.

They're savants. people are good at things there's there's savants you know i'm sure there was people that were you know doing playing music their whole fucking life and they thought they were great and then mozart came in when he was like nine and fucking made him eat shit and they were like the fucking douchebag what is he nine yeah you know like i'm sure that happens because you're just you know talent is talent i guess but i don't know what kind of freaky like marathon genes that she has in her that i mean her dad was a farmer that's you gotta have some stability in cuba it's hot down there you gotta have a lot of it'll be a sturdy individual to farm in cuba dragging the plow building these legs i don't know what she could possibly be doing that would yeah create a a marathon super freak that's nuts who the fuck did i just

read about that when they were a kid they used to have to their family couldn't afford animals anymore and they had to pull the plow themselves out of here linden johnson it was linden johnson the president president linden you wonder what i mean why he was such a mean fuck that's why president lyndon you wonder what i mean why he was such a mean fuck that's why when he was a kid his family his family was so poor he had to pull the plow in the hot texas sun in the yeah this was in texas he's pulling a plow i was like god damn i wonder why he was mean i'm gonna take it out on them vietnam that's i'm gonna do he was a mean son of a bitch he was he's a very mean son of a bitch so uh yeah this is 25 minutes faster than the one she ran six months ago and it's just a a big it's

a big deal and people are really impressed by it um they're they really are the uh the race director for the new york marathon says once again says that uh she uh they because they were asking him about what about the the application with the four hours and 10 minutes and he said no it's actually true so then they were like was she sandbagging because i guess based on what you're again i don't know if they put i think they position you based on because there's rows and numbers so they position you based, it's kind of like a handicap thing too. You know what I mean? I don't think if you're like a world-class marathoner, they put you right up front, I don't think.

Or maybe it's like race car driving where they do, where it's like qualifying. Pole position, I'm not sure. Or I don't know if it's handicapped or pole positioned, either one. So now they talked about, like, people even brought up, well, is it possible that she didn't even run in the New York Marathon? Did she fake that? Maybe that's what happened because, you know, maybe that's what the deal is. So they talked about the people who actually tried to get into the race,

and this guy said, quote, there were 125 runners who tried to get onto the verrazano bridge plaza for the start of the race and 100 succeeded 40 jumped into the race in brooklyn 20 were diverted at the queens bridge queensborough bridge so i don't know if they took the wrong turn another 72 late starters were stopped 200 yards from the finish line. Oh, wow, because they got caught starting late because they jumped in. Eight runners with high numbers, those are the slower entrants, attempted to stand in the front of the start line. Okay, so I think it's pole position. It is.

So that's how it works. One runner was disqualified for instituting a false start, and six were caught for cutting the course. Which is, I'm sure a lot of people try to do that. Yeah, but why would you? Why would you do that if this is for you? What are you doing? This is for your ego. What are you cheating?

Yeah. That's like faking an orgasm when you're jerking off. Like, what are you doing? Why bother even starting? You didn't have to start. Who is this for? Who is this for? What the fuck, dude?

You know, like I don't think many people do that. You don't have to bother. Oh, no, that was great. Oh, you really got me today, Jimmy. No, I didn't. My knees are weak. Not working. I feel our dick.

I know better. That would be a pointless endeavor. Yeah. So, Jesus Christ. He said 18 runners wore another runner's number. So, I guess they switched or stole one. Twelve gave their numbers to someone else. Two used false names to obtain numbers.

What the fuck has happened? Cut it off. Stop it. What are we doing? Problems for a free fucking stupid event that doesn't matter? Yeah, so far this is like 200 people they've talked about. I mean, that's out of like thousands, but still, it seems very- That's too many.

It's too many. Let's see. They obtained 12 lied about past marathon performances, I guess for better pole position or some shit. Nine were recognized by video machines as unofficial runners, and three were thrown out after being charged with unsportsmanlike conduct okay i don't know if they like you know tried to trip the guy next to them or what the fuck they didn't do so people are starting to come out like the other runners are they're saying they didn't even see her around they're like we didn't even fucking see her now she won this is this is ridiculous and a lot of them kind of sound like like it's the second place winner you know the lady who came in second so it kind of sounds like sour grapes where they're

like why didn't she came out of nowhere this is bullshit you know like who the fuck are you you you're preordained to win the marathon no maybe you lost so jacqueline garo was uh she said running blithely along thinking she was the first woman. Now, there's journalists assigned to assign only to the women. There's ones assigned to the men, the women. They they have to break it down into pieces so they can cover it, basically, because it's all it's 26 miles and thousands of people. So you have to get organized to figure out who's doing what. You just have a bunch of people taking pictures and shit. So they they thought that they all thought thought that Garou was winning, too.

They had Jacqueline Garou leading at the second checkpoint and trailed by Ellison Goodall and Kathleen Cimet there. That's who was behind her at the second checkpoint. Now, at Woodlands, Massachusetts, which is the 17-mile checkpoint, Jacqueline was still the first woman, according to John Powers of the Boston Globe, who was monitoring the women. Okay. Now, she says she never saw Rosie Ruiz. And one of the other runners, Ellison Good goodall she says she never saw her either uh patty lions who finished uh the race at two hours 35 minutes and eight seconds said she never saw rosie

either and uh jacqueline ran the first 20 miles in the race at one hour 56 minutes and 50 seconds okay now stay with me there's math here it was computed so they did the math on this so uh that if ruiz passed her after that she would have had to run the last 6.2 miles in about 34 minutes okay that's how that's that's how the math works out if she was behind her at that point to be ahead of her by there, she would have had to run that to finish that much ahead, basically. She'd have to run the last stretch in like six-minute miles. In six-minute miles. Yeah.

After running 20 miles. Yeah. Which is. That's crazy. Patty Lyon says, and that is impossible. Right. So not happening, basically. and that is impossible right so not happening basically um so they're they're saying that you know how do you there's basically the the runners are like i didn't see her at all and they're like

well how the fuck do you prove that she wasn't there what are you talking about maybe you weren't paying attention yeah who the fuck are you you know you know i mean you're just running who knows what after running 20 miles i'd be seeing Smurfs and shit. I would be seeing all sorts of weird shit. I would imagine I wouldn't know what I would say. I wouldn't be sure what I saw enough to be able to say I didn't see anything. That's for sure. Oh, yeah.

I'd be like Bugs Bunny in the desert where there's a mirage. And I'd be like, is that a hot bunny woman there? I think there's a hot rabbit chick up ahead. Yeah. Get her. chick up ahead yeah and get her so she uh apparently only the first 100 runners at every checkpoint along the course are noted by race officials right so at every checkpoint they mark down who the first 100 runners are okay so they can keep and see what the consistency is um so they said that you know that she could have been if she was not in the top 100 they wouldn't

have marked her coming to checkpoints right so if she could have turned it on at the end and blasted through that that's possible you know like whatever so they said you know if they'll look into it as they look into everything but they go it'll be a week or two before we have any announcement you know we're not expecting anything to change so they said quite this is the the guy who runs the race. Well, right now I'm in no position to question her. She says that Ruiz, they looked at some films, but they didn't have extensive video coverage in 1980. They said some films that Ruiz, quote, does not appear to in any of it in any of the video except for crossing the finish line.

But we've had people call and swear they saw her at different miles so they go but really how credible is that how credible same as people saying they didn't see her who the fuck knows you know what i mean so they asked about the possibility of someone dropping 25 minutes from one marathon to the next in a span of six months and he said it was very unlikely. It's crazy. But if it was her first marathon and she ran it meekly, but then realized, hey, you know, trying to save her energy,

but then realized, fuck, I have all this energy, she might have known this time she could turn it on a little more. You know, you don't know how to pace yourself for your first marathon, I wouldn't imagine. So they did have a guy named Hal Goforth, who was a runner from San Diego, and he says he saw her. He says he saw her at the 10-mile mark, and then he saw her at what he thinks is the 15-mile mark, but one of those markers around there, he said. And he said, all of a sudden, I just saw this short girl go chugging by. And he remembered her so there was that other racers have a different opinion though um other racers have a different

opinion the fred lebo who's the guy who stages the new york marathon he said quote she is a phony that's his statement to this to the boston globe okay it's pretty pretty strong yeah um jock simple his name is jock yeah jock simple j-o-k-k yeah not jock yeah jock um as in your dick yeah the assistant director of the bloody of the boston marathon i said bloody because his quote is, quote, she's a bloody fake. So assume he's a British man. Colonel Will Cloney, who was the director of the Boston race, said, quote, I have grave doubts. Okay. Patty Lyons, who's the third woman to come in to finish, said, quote, she finished right behind Garou. Quote, I never saw her in the race.

I finish. I come in. And next thing you know, they're putting the Laurel wreath on her. And Rosie, when they ask her, she says, quote, I didn't expect to win this race. I ran a 231. That's all I have to say. Fuck you. I mean, that's that.

Boy, oh, boy, am I in over my head. Yeah. No shit. my head yeah so rob bright who was the race director of the midland run in new jersey was waiting for uh lions who was a friend of his at the 23 mile mark and he says quote she was the second girl girl to come by the first was garrot talking about her his friend not ruiz i knew her i'd seen her run in montreal there was just no way Ruiz could have been there. So, you know, there's that. Now, there's another guy who, and this guy, this is the weird, this is a weird thing.

Every once in a while, when someone's a scumbag, it makes them reliable because they're a scumbag. Because what they're doing is like scumbaggy behavior, and you can rely on that. So you're like, okay, that's like the sun rising. This will make sense in a minute. There's a man named George Lynn, L-I-N-N. I call him George Lynn, butt identifier. This man can pick your ass out of a lineup apparently. He really can.

And he doesn't like line them up and then just like start picking asses. You mean he can identify an ass in a group of asses. In a group of asses. Like this guy, if he was a carnival barker, he'd be like, step right up, step right up. I'll tell your ass from your friend's ass. Come on and step up. Whose ass is that? Is it your mom's ass?

Is it your ass? I don't know. We'll find out. Whose ass is going? Who's got a better ass? Who's got a fatter ass? I'll tell you anything about an ass you want to know maria theresa stacy turn around boom bang nailed it hey hold on a second maria theresa you guys go stacy come here a minute you get the blue ribbon stacy come here come here stacy i want to talk to you

hold on i'm going to talk to Stacey on the side, everybody. So now George Lynn was the fastest runner in the marathon from New Mexico. So he's New Mexico's fastest marathon runner at this point in 1980. Yeah, ooh, that's a title right there. He says he knows a woman. He says this is amazing. He says that he knows a woman. He says this is amazing. He says that he knows a woman runner when he sees one from behind. That's what he said.

That's literally what he said. It's why I'm good at running. I chase it all day. I'm always chasing tail. Remember the skier when he's ski jumping in deadly maneuvers? He said, pussy's always on my mind when he's doing that that's what this guy's that's how i get through the race i don't think about the miles i don't think about the time i just think about these sweet asses in front of me and how to catch up to him hey so i've never beat a woman across the line because i'm just chasing that ass that'd be a waste

of a few seconds of a glance yeah you know i figure all the women usually coming ahead of me that's the weird part but i don't know if that's all right i don't mind he says he know and he said quote the behind if they said that the b this is a from the new mexico the new mexican the newspaper here from santa fe new mexico he they said quote and the behind of rosie ruiz was one he missed last monday he says he was in perfect position to have seen Ruiz in the final 17 miles of the marathon. And he says there was almost no way he could have seen her if she had run. He wouldn't have seen her if he ran the entire race. Now, she basically she says that, look, and there's a lot of other people that agree with her on this she's like

they didn't recognize me at at these checkpoints because i had short hair and they probably just just marked me down as one of the guys okay that's what she said my hair was short i'm running by they don't fucking know who i am they probably just marked me as a guy so maybe that's what happened it could have just been in the wrong column except for that big w on your back yeah well she said you know you're running it could have got covered and twisted who knows now lynn he says quote absolutely no way no way they said they this is when they were asking if he they said could you have mistaken her for a male runner could you have looked at her and thought she was a guy absolutely no way

he said quote though it's true that some women could be mistaken for men to give her way for any woman runner regardless of how skinny she is is her rear end yeah that's what he said i know a woman's ass when i see one i don't care how manly she looks. I don't care if she's, you know, living her life as a guy. I don't care. I look at that ass. I'll tell you what's in them pants. That's what I'm telling you right here. You're telling me Caitlyn Jenner could fool him.

That's what you're telling me? He's going to fool him. Regardless of how skinny she is, it's her rear end. Yeah. This guy's ridiculous. That's a man's ass. That's a man's ass. I know a man's.

I'll try to slip that by me he he finished the marathon in uh and uh in the same time as the second place woman jacqueline garrot probably about a half a second behind me let's be realistic not at the same time about a half second back you know he was beating her but then he slowed down in the last few minutes he goes hey take a look at that oh jesus christ i could have beat her why do i do this if all i'm doing is looking at these asses i could just stand in the crowd and not have to do all this work it's a good reason to run a marathon and it really is and this is the funny part he says he passed her garo uh who is the

leading woman earlier in the race and it wasn't until the nine mile mark that she passed him or he quote let her pass if you know what i mean wink wink or if it was just all a bunch of men's asses around me yeah i gotta put the brakes on a little bit this isn't my favorite view let's let this broad pass me real quick. There we go. That's better. Some French-Canadian tale I'm chasing. I like this. I need a little better view, if you know what I mean.

Oh, yeah, this is better. He says, quote, when Jacqueline Garot went by me, the crowd was saying, here comes the first woman. He said, let me be the judge of that, everybody. I'm just kidding. That didn't happen. Calm down. You guys don't know. I'll tell you in a sec. that, everybody. I'm just kidding. That didn't happen. Calm down. You guys don't know. I'll tell you in a sec.

Hey, relax. I'll let you know. He said, I stayed within sight of her to the finish line and just nipped her at the finish. No other woman passed me. So I guess he stayed behind her looking at her ass all the way to the finish line when he ran up and passed her and beat her. Yeah. So that's what he did. line when he ran up and passed her and beat her yeah so so he that's what he did he hung back looked at her ass for the whole time and then turned on the burners and beat her at the end because because he could have done that at any time right but he wanted to look at her ass the

whole time this guy is a fucking for nine miles imagine that she passed him after nine miles, so he fits 17 miles. 17 and a half miles. Up her ass. Guys will follow you around in the mall or something looking at your ass or at a concert or some shit like that. Imagine someone following you for 17 and a half miles staring at your ass and then just running by you at the end of me like, nice can, sweetheart. You would fucking stab him in the throat and he would deserve it. Really appreciate the motivation. Couldn't have done it without you. Oh, my God.

17 miles of face full of ass. Staring at this broad's ass. This guy gets funnier, by the way. If that's possible. He gets funnier. This guy's got to be a character, I think. I think we need to... George Lynn, butt inspector.

Ass connoisseur. Ass inspector. George Lynn, ass connoisseur. Look at them cheeks, sweetheart. Holy fuck. He drinks from a brandy snifter and smokes a fine cigar while he does this, like with a smoking jacket on. He's a connoisseur of asses.

Don't run around with your toes. He has like posterior monthly magazine he gets and things like that. They're not big ass. They're fully clothed. They're just asses he can look at. Man. He says, quote, Rosie Ruiz's story was that garo passed her and that she later passed back assuming that happened after nine miles i would have seen it we meaning him and garo were running

at the same pace i was behind her garo obviously yeah so if she had passed another woman and another passed back i could have identified her by her butt he literally says that he literally says i was behind her so if she had passed another woman and then another passed her back i could have identified her by her butt because he would have put it into his mental fucking rolodex of every ass he's ever seen and while he watches that ass disappear uh into a three minute lead yeah that's that's the other thing here yeah so i would have recognized her by her butt besides ruiz looks like a woman anyway not like a man he says that his keen eye for women runners was backed up by a

friend in the crowd who was about a mile from the finish line he said i was looking at all their asses too the guy's not lying that's not what he said he said quote i had a friend who was standing at about the 25 mile point and he said he saw rosie ruiz go by but they did not see her at the 24 mile checkpoint that's really the damning evidence that no one saw her at any of the checkpoints he said he first suspected foul play at the finish line when he and garrot walked through the chutes to the basement of the Prudential building and saw Ruiz on the winner's platform. He said, quote, she just didn't look like a marathoner. There was

no sweat on her shirt, no salt stains, and not a hair out of place. And her thighs looked pretty heavy for that class of marathoner. Jesus Christ, man. Holy fucking shit this guy is just running marathons to judge women's bodies she's a fat roots on this broad

there's no way she runs she got tree trunks this fucking lady no way the game's on this pig how dare she her thighs look pretty heavy for that class of marathoner. That's hilarious. Wow. I got to recover from that. He then said, quote, Garou was standing by me and she was dumbfounded because she thought she had won and her problem was compounded by the fact that she doesn't speak English very well.

Oh, no. She's a French-Canadian and there was no one around who could speak French and tell her what happened. Yeah. She was just like, what the fuck? If you don't know when Crystal Pepsi was discontinued, what was in Al Capone's vault or which famous meteorologist is Lenny Kravitz's second cousin, then you haven't spent enough time on Wikipedia. But that's OK. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole, from Smartless Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you'd learn that that's the science-y term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster as we start out on a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link

to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. And yeah, so this was Lynn, though, thought her time was too fast. He said it was too fast because it was hot that day. It was 81 degrees that day. He said it's too hot for that. He says, quote, Bill Rogers,

who's the men's champion all the time, was three minutes off his best time, and I was three minutes off my best time, he said, because it was the heat, because of the heat, it just wears you down. And she's 30 minutes off hers? And she got, well, his was three minutes more. Oh, wow.

They added three minutes to their time because of the heat. Three minutes to each of their best times. She's shaving a half an hour. Yeah, so he said, so subtract three minutes off Rosieie's time would place her very close to a world record and i just don't believe that okay so yeah um rogers agrees rogers said i knew something was fishy she wasn't to enter this marathon she didn't think that the

newspapers would be litigating her ass and thighs for the next fucking three weeks afterwards because this is crazy yeah with every runner evidently commenting that she's a pig. Well, it gets worse. Roger said, too much body fat, not enough muscle. I saw this gal and asked someone her name. I mean, I was dumbfounded, speechless, to be honest. My brother Charlie said she had thighs like Irma Bombeck, you know, lots of cellulite. Jesus fucking Christ. Oh, my God. Yeah. cellulite jesus fucking christ oh my god yeah i mean what the fuck so uh he also says uh bill rogers also says that she didn't appear to be near death when she crossed the finish line as

everybody else did at 81 degrees in the noon sun oh and all the people saying cellulite are having a rough time this one they're having a rough just fine maybe they need a little cellulite on their thighs and it would fucking help out a little bit. Maybe that'll insulate you against the cold or against the heat. It holds oxygen. Yeah. He said, quote, the second I saw her, I was skeptical. I know a top runner when I see one. She didn't look tired.

And her ass was a little fat. No, he said she didn't look tired. But to go from 256 to beating Patty Lyons and Jacqueline Garreau, I'm sorry. No way. He said something else. He said there was no sweat stains on the back or underarms of her yellow T-shirt. Because sweat stains. Even when it dries, you see it on there still.

Especially that kind of heavy sweat. I remember thinking, oh, no, somebody made a big mistake here. He says, but his brother, Charlie, was even more certain of it. He says, quote, I started to get sick to my stomach. This is Charlie. This is great. I started to get sick to my stomach. Rosie looked like a housewife with two kids, not a world-class marathoner.

Jesus fuck. Boy, do I love the 70s this is insane he said when charlie searched for someone in authority bill had sat at the table with rosie and was waiting for the start of the press conference they just moved him in and said sit here this is where the press conference is now rogers bill he says quote i asked her about her training and how many intervals she did she She didn't know what intervals were. You don't run two hour and 31 minute marathon and not know about intervals. I don't, but I don't run marathons. So now Roger says, quote, the person I was most concerned about was Jacqueline Garo.

I'd won Boston four times. I know how it feels to be out there on Boylston Street getting the wreath put on your head. He said, though, you know, she didn't. The next day they were they went on a morning show on Rogers and Ruiz went on like the Today Show, I think, at the time. And, you know, a few minutes before they got on TV, when they were sitting in the green room, Rogers said to her, quote, he said, I said, Rosie, if something went wrong here, now is the time to rectify it. He said she started to hesitate like she wanted to say something. I thought she was going to admit it. But then she just started crying and saying, I won.

I won. I just said, OK, Rosie, it's OK. Forget about it. I can argue with you. Today's the day I get it. Now, Garou said, I'd like to hear from her. She said that she was on the whole course, and she said, other than the last mile or so, that everybody, when she'd show up at every mile, they'd tell her she's a leading woman. Because that's what they do.

They say, you're in first for women. She said that last mile, there was no cheering anymore. It was quiet so quiet uh and because somebody else had already won and uh she said this is good she said this about uh about rosie quote she didn't look like a two hour 31 minute runner that is the women's way of saying she got cellulite in a fat ass yeah she didn't look like a two hour 31 minute runner yeah she didn't know what any of the terms meant easy things like interval training i saw her in miami two or three years later when i ran the 10 kilometer race at the orange bowl she came up

to me and said hi i'm rosie ruiz she was there but she hadn't run in the race. And I said, why did you do that in Boston? And she said, I did run it. I won. So, uh, you know, uh, so the, Hey, there's no way I was going to have a conversation with you. And so, um, I don't think she's on the right road. That's what she says. So April 25th, 1980, there's a re a reporter, uh, named Susan Morrow who is – she has some information here. This is on the New York City Marathon. She is a – she's a knitwear designer and a freelance photographer, not a reporter. Sorry. Yeah.

So she's doing like Etsy, 1980 version of Etsy. Yeah. And she's a freelance photographer. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. 1980 version of Etsy. Yeah.

And she's a freelance photographer. Got it. Yeah. So she was watching TV the night of the Boston Marathon and she heard that Rosie Ruiz was the winner. And she was like, what? Are you fucking kidding me? Because she said, that can't be. This is the woman I remember meeting on the subway the day of the New York Marathon while the race was already in progress. Oh, she said, quote quote she was wearing you know

just a number she said that she just happened to run into her on the subway she said she looked like a marathon runner turns out she was a psycho so they apparently they met when they both got on the subway at the same spot here on West 4th Street in Greenwich Village. And Morrow said that Ruiz told her that she had withdrawn from the race after about 10 miles because she twisted her ankle. So she said she she got out. So the two women got off the subway at Columbus Circle and walked together toward the Central Park finish line. Ruiz ended up she popped up and went over to the medical tent, basically. Once they got there, Ruiz banked off into the medical tent and then Mara went and just

started watching the race. You know, there's a lot of shit going on. There's people. So she just went and forgot all about her and went off into the crowd. She said, quote, by fluke uh a miracle whatever i ended up a foot from where the runners came in it ended up one of the peak experience days of my life that's a that's sad yeah it is that's sad that's very sad um i'm sorry i'm just that's just very sad that's your peak experience being where fucking runners you've never heard of cross the finish line for the second biggest marathon in the country.

Right. Honestly. Anyway, she said that, quote, I've gone to many marathons since then, and I've never gotten anywhere near the finish line like that. She said that the key to getting there, because she didn't know how to get there. The key to getting there was Rosie Ruiz. Oh, she said after they came out of the columbus circle subway station they repeatedly passed through police barricades ruiz kept identifying herself as an injured runner she had her number she's like injured runner i have to go over here

i'm an injured runner and so they just let her through the barricades she had to was going to medical tents so ruiz just kept doing that no one knew what was going on. The fucking 70s cops in New York, they don't fucking care. Injured runner, great. She's not stabbing a guy. What the fuck do I care what she's doing right now? New York was crazy in 1979. Marathon runner going through a barricade, not a blip on the radar. Don't care.

The Bronx is on fire. Fuck this. So she kept doing that. And they said basically that while receiving medical aid, which was the last medical area near the finish line, she ended up popping into the race after that, finishing at a time of two hours, 56 minutes and 31 seconds. seconds so um and they said a race volunteer probably saw her wearing the barcode on her t-shirt tore it off and placed her on a spindle of barcodes from runners who had run the full race that's how they do it you just do that uh they said that uh on the grounds of this woman morrow this photographer what she says they're going to review the finish line videotape and everything like that. And 90. So finally, by the end of the day, Morrow says that she wishes she obviously had brought her camera on the subway that day.

She said, I could have made thousands and thousands of dollars selling her picture at this point. So, yeah, she said that that day, the day they met in New York, they made initial plans to have lunch and they traded phone calls in the days after they traded phone numbers. But they never ended up getting together. She said there was something weird about Ruiz that troubled her. She said she received a phone message one day requesting her to call Rosie and she thought it was another friend by the same name. call Rosie and she thought it was another friend by the same name. So she returned the call and then was surprised when Ruiz answered by saying metal traders. She was like, what?

She thought it was a different Rosie. She said, quote, I was surprised it was her and not my other friend. And I remember saying, oh, Rosie, it's you. I thought it was another friend of mine. And she said, I told her I thought it was my other friend rosie and she came back with this tone it was weird saying quote well you've forgotten me already right there i said to myself i don't think this is something i want to get into yeah so yeah i don't think so either here um so anyway they take away her they disqualify her from the new york marathon based on this

evidence they say that they have no evidence that she ran other than that last mile like she rode uh the subway for the for the marathon which is a lot easier way to do it i could run a marathon if you did it on the subway i could do it yeah i could i could kick back on the subway i could argue with homeless guys about you know they want to fuck your face and all that shit like that guy yelled at you. I'm cool with that. It's easier. Yeah, you can throw a chicken leg. I don't care. I'll throw it back. Take that, motherfucker. You got to out crazy these people. That's the thing. You either have to ignore them or out crazy them. Or get up while maintaining eye contact, pulling your pants down and shitting right into your hand, and then smearing it on the fucking wall next to you, and then rubbing it under your eyes like war paint. Then he would have been like, God damn. We're going to go.

We're going to go. Let's go. Those are your options. Ignore or that. So decide. War paint shit streaks under my eyes. shit streak war paint or fucking just don't say anything when someone's that crazy so rosie says she has evidence that she ran in the boston marathon okay she's like say what you want but fuck you i ran it she says uh the new evidence

that she ran it she said this is according the way, she now has kind of an advisor, a friend of hers now who is calling himself his running advisor. He's talking to the media for his name is Steve Merrick. M.A.R.E.K. So go on this guy. He's talking to him. He's saying there's evidence here. Now, the race director said we have no new evidence. He said, you know, I don't have any evidence, but there's a there.

They're he they're they're saying that they're looking into disqualifying her. And she's saying, hold on. I have evidence. Merrick says the new evidence comes in the form of two witnesses who told him they saw Ruiz running on the course at the midway mark. And before that, they had no evidence of this. They said that television tapes did not pick her up anywhere on the course. And there are a couple of people that we'll talk about. He said, I've gotten a phone call from a Boston policeman who said that he could positively identify Rosie on the course around the midway mark. He said, I like their ass. I like a thick thigh.

That's what I'm looking for. You know what I mean? Like a real... I don't like that sinewy marathon runner looking thigh. I want a nice... Something you can really bite into. You know what I mean? Something like a fried chicken leg that's just going to be like,

mmm, juicy. You know what I'm talking about? Generally, Cuban immigrants got them, so that's where I look for them. Is that right? He said, I also got a phone call from an MIT graduate, Joe Cincotta, who says he saw her at the 16-mile mark. He made a positive identification and will even go to court, Merrick says. a positive identification and will even go to court okay this is merrick says so a canvassing of the boston area phone book couldn't find uh the joe sincada who talked to mark merrick well

he doesn't who knows if he lives in boston so um yeah he says that uh you know everything is it's all good uh now at this point here uh there is if they do find a faker in this race though a different faker a guy uh here a marathon runner named michael weiler chirono of north miami was listed as the 28th finisher in time of two hours 21 minutes 21 seconds which would have qualified him for the olympic trials wow yet after the race uh here bill rogers won it in two hours 12 minutes so uh after the race he was accused of running a distance obviously running less time and according to this guy he appeared out of nowhere at the 22 mile mark into the race that's where he passed him and he said quote i never saw him until he caught me i remember to myself, where the hell did this guy come from?

There's no way he could have been in front of me because I was running with the leaders the whole way. Then I recognized him. He was the same guy who jumped out of the crowd in the Orange Bowl marathon on January 12th when I was riding the press bus and we threw him out of the race. He did the same thing in a New York City marathon and got away with it. This guy's a cheat. So, yeah. Why do people do uh yeah i don't understand why would you cheat so hard to win 28th place that's the thing yay i guess you could put that on your picture of that on your wall it's an insignificant number one and then number two why would you cheat so hard that you're now qualified for the olympics if you can so hard that you're now qualified for the

olympics if you can't yeah oh fuck i gotta go to the olympics now he said there so there was no michael weiler chirono which is the guy's name uh entered in the marathon but there was a michael chirono weiler layman who gave a north miami address and oh and listed his occupation as, quote, medical doctor, M-E-D-I-C-L-E, doctor. You know, I mean, no, right? You can't even, medical. He almost spelled medsicle doctor medsicle it's just a medicine popsicle it's great it's a medsicle which would be a great idea for kids medicine

oh yeah fantastic idea to make popsicle vaccines let's go anything fucking anything dimetap yeah fucking whatever the popsicle tylenol let's get it yeah popsicle children's tylenol especially if you have a popsicle children's tylenol especially if you have a picky kid like you know my son would never take the some of the shit and he would fight you to the death so that might have been a good way to do it anyway go on they probably have that already i doubt it i've never heard of it i've never heard of it either but i'm sure it seems like too good of an idea somewhere it exists so um he also listed his best time at two hours 14 minutes 47 seconds which was in this race in oregon and basically they found another guy from seattle named with

a similar name that actually ran that time in that race so he just said that um yeah it's it's it's fucking pretty silly they said they spotted him there they said quote uh benji and a few other people were riding in the car when they saw this guy jump out into the race about a mile from the finish line within a few minutes he had grabbed a bucket of water from a woman from a woman's spectator and poured it over his head to make it look like he'd been running hard. Benji and the other people started screaming for a policeman to stop him, and they did, but he broke away and started running toward the finish line again.

Why? You're caught. Just go away. That's when I tackled him about 100 yards from the finish line. What do you care? Who gives a shit? He can run by I-1. No, he didn't. That's it. He didn't win. He wasn't running in this. He popped out of the crowd. All right, we'll scratch that one. If a guy runs onto a football field during a game and runs down and through the end zone, they don't count that as a touchdown for the other team.

They just take him away, arrest him, and they restart the game because it doesn't matter. Who gives a shit? What are you tackling him for? So he's running toward the end of the race where he's going to leave then who cares is his dick out is he threatening women and children who cares let him leave there you go is he teabagging children as he runs by anybody at ball height so then he escaped again and circled around a bank of spectators to cross the finish line but they disqualified him obviously because he wasn't in the fucking race and uh they also recall a similar

incident involving the same runner in the 62 mile race they sponsored holy shit that is horrible you gotta walk like half of that i would assume he entered under the name michael weller slack and he was spotted by a number of runners cutting the course and was disqualified wow it's not you're not forced to do this. That's the difference. I would cut the mile in school because I was forced to do that shit and I don't want to do this shit.

Yeah, you're not doing it on purpose. You're not volunteering. Now, he used the name Michael Slack to do that. There's an actual guy named Michael Slack who's a well-known middle distance runner. Wow. So that's what first attracted attention to him. The race people said that none of us knew that Mike Slack had increased his distance.

But then we saw it wasn't Mike Slack, but this Weller character. We knew something was wrong. So obviously. So there's a witness, though, that says that he saw he saw her. They both saw Rosie Ruiz. John H. Faulkner, who is a Harvard senior and his classmate, Sola Mahoney. They went to the Boston Marathon in 1980. It was a warm day, as we mentioned.

Right. So they they actually in the morning they jogged over the Massachusetts Avenue Bridge, crossing the Charles River and running pretty much into the race course on Commonwealth Avenue. So he says Bill Rogers and the leaders had just come by before we got there. It was about two hours and 15 or two hours and 20. And the male runners were coming in sporadically. At one point, he looked right. He said he looked to his right as runners runners were approaching. He said he looked to his right as runners were approaching, and he said, quote, I see this woman in a yellow T-shirt sort of stumbling from the crowd onto the street.

Uh-oh. Her arms were flailing away like she was swimming. She was just very erratic. I told Sola, and we just stood there thinking, the gall of that woman. How Harvard is that? The gall of that woman. Blow me down. the gall of that woman blow me down yeah what what kind of a family must she be from i must tell everyone at kennebunkport in case she summers there we never know fuck man she runs as if she swims so he says that uh those people thought the

people that thought that garrot was the first woman. He said Faulkner didn't give another thought, this guy, to the woman in the yellow T-shirt as he jogged back across to Charles to his dorm. He said, I figured that woman would just jump out before the end or somebody would stop her or whatever. She was just fucking around. That evening, though, a friend who happened to be one of Harvard's top woman runners asked if he'd heard about the the marathon and who won and i told her uh i told her i hope it's not that one woman and uh basically he knew it he checked the newspapers the next day and he saw that it was her and he ended up uh yeah by the end of the week i was uh tired of it and decided to visit some of my friends at brown university in providence I had to get away from the madness because then

he became like a he's the witness so yeah he said the way I look at it I ran longer from Commonwealth Avenue to my on-campus apartment than she ran in the Boston Marathon so yeah so now May 1st

comes along and her time here the New York City guy said it's sad but true. Rosie did not finish the New York City marathon. Then they said Boston is the most important marathon in the world. And we're especially sad because we feel somewhat responsible for what happened here. They said, you know, if she wouldn't have done this with us, whatever. said, you know, if she wouldn't have done this with us, whatever. Now, Ruiz said, quote, I can honestly, I can truthfully and honestly say without hesitation that today has been the second saddest day of my life. Only surpassed by the day I had to leave my father in my native country 18 years ago because they take away her Boston Marathon title. They tell her she cheated and they say,, you've got to return that medal. She said no,

and she kept it forever. She refused to return the medal because she said that she won. All right. So, she also says, quote, I hope the next time I run, you all watch me.

If not for interest, then for curiosity to watch a woman who sprang out of nowhere only to win the most important race of her life. That sounds like a movie paragraph only to win a woman who sprang out of nowhere only to win the most important race of her life. Rosie Ruiz in running the cellulite from your thighs starting March 21st. running the cellulite from your thighs starting March 21st.

Rosie, we're loose in thunder thighs. In marathon butt. Oh, man. So she said, quote, I'm afraid this controversy will be with me for a long time. Well, Rosie, it's been... 50 years, my love. It's been 41 years, and here we are.

So you were correct, my darling. So now there are jokes that come out about Rosie Ruiz, obviously. Did you hear about the Rosie Ruiz pantyhose? I didn't. Guaranteed not to run? Yeah. Did you hear about the Rosie Ruiz doll?

Wind it up, and it just stands there these are all late night shit here did you hear did you hear about the rosie ruiz deodorant use it and you can run 26 miles without breaking a sweat um yes terrific did you hear that rosie ruiz called the free press marathon office to inquire about this sunday's race she asked for an entry blank and a bus schedule that was that was johnny carson's that's these are all yeah these are all johnny carson's jokes so that's the good one yeah the bus schedule that's the closer before he moves on to the next topic anyway yeah anyway Anyway, Richard Nixon today. Back at his home, and it was after he was out.

Anyway, he says that, wow, this is fucking amazing. He's not the first to do it, though. Let's put it that way. Rosie isn't? No, this is not the first one. In the first marathon of the modern Olympics in 1896, areek named velikos beat a hungarian runner for third for third for third place by hiding a carriage in a park and then getting it and then getting a ride to a point near the finish line where he hopped out and ran in and And then in 1904, Fred Lors rode in a car for part of the Olympic marathon.

Atta boy. In 1979, in Boston, the 53-year-old guy named Oscar Miranda running in only his third marathon apparently reached the finish line in two hours, 16 minutes, and 31 seconds. And then they showed he ran into, just like Rosie Ruiz.

But they caught him like that day like he they caught him before they did a press conference you know they were like is this the right guy and then people were like no he fucking jumped in we all saw him yeah get the fuck out of here you bum that's the thing about that race it is 26 miles of barricades that are lined with eyes people are lined with six people deep yeah yeah and all the runners too are running in these little packs they know who's around them you know what i mean so uh in may of 1980 the boston marathon brought garrot back to boston put her up in a nice hotel and recreated the award ceremony and gave her a medal instead because she should have won she won won, actually, obviously, for the women. Obviously, but so late.

That's what I mean. She said, quote, It was worth it. This is Garou. I visited with the governor, Ed King, and he read a proclamation. Then we went to the Elliott Lounge and there was champagne and flowers

and we sang O Canada. Tommy Leonard has always been so nice, like all the people in Boston. I can't really regret what happened here because Boston, the people are so nice there uh so yeah she said that uh fuck that's amazing she was she was a little mad i'm sure so she's in hiding rosie now she's in hiding um now merrick by the way by the way he enters races as superman merrick instead of steve and runs runs in marathons with a fucking cape on like an idiot. Has he ever won one?

No, of course not. Stop it, Steve. He's the president of Suburban Roadrunners Club of New York. And he said that, yeah, he wears the Superman costume and he gets in running magazines that way. They take pictures of him and put him in there. So they ask him, is Rosie Ruiz with you? And she says, no, she's not with me. She's in seclusion.

She's out of New York, but she's not with me here because he was like on vacation or something. So he said he met her in an elevator weeks ago before the New York marathon. And he said, we exchanged a few words about the race. And she said, I'm Rosie Ru about the race and she said I'm Rosie Ruiz and I said I'm Superman and that was it so that's literally his quote she said hi I'm Rosie Ruiz I said I'm Superman and that was it next thing I know she won the Boston marathon

I got a call from a mutual friend who asked me to help her I went over talked to her saw a couple of tears in her eyes, and said, what the heck? So he said, I'm going to throw myself in front of these cameras and help her out. God damn it. He's a good Samaritan. He appeared on the Today Show.

He appeared on Good Morning America, the Wide World of Sports, and tons of local programs defending her. Defending her. He says, I think it was probably just a dumb stunt, and you don't have to act like she's an evil person, basically. Okay. She did it twice, Steve.

Twice. He said, quote, I defended the right for wheelchairs to be in the New York Marathon, and I defend Rosie. I can't fly, but I'm willing to try to help people. I don't know what the difference of those two are or why those would be compared to each other. Because Superman flies, James. Oh, that's right. he's superman thank you jimmy thank you i

never said she ran but there was all there was a chance she did no one really had any good evidence that she didn't i believe you're innocent until proven guilty and uh they asked him if he ever really believed that she won the marathon and he he says, quote, I wasn't looking for sweat stains. That's not my job. Hell, the girl's Cuban. Maybe Cubans don't sweat after running marathons. Then again, though, her fat ass and her cellulite fucking thighs. I mean, maybe what?

I don't know. Hey, you know about these fucking dirty Cubans? Do they fucking sweat after marathons or what? Yeah, you know, these dirty Cubans that come from this fucking island. Yeah, these fucking dirty Cubans? Do they fucking sweat out the marathons or what? Yeah, you know, these dirty Cubans that come from this fucking island. Yeah, these fucking people. Yeah, what about them? Wild thing to say to the press.

He said that to the fucking Boston Globe, Jimmy. Did she not pop out and say, hey, Steve, stop helping me. You're not helping me. Hell, the girl's Cuban. What do I know? I don't know if they sweat or not this is wild everything in this episode so um he said the greatest crime in sports uh this century is the one that's been perpetrated against jacques uh jackie garrot uh because she didn't get to do

it uh she said but he goes ruiz also quote had a tumor the size of a tangerine removed from her brain. Remember that? Right. He said, quote, she's a sick woman. I've told her to quit trying to prove herself to run for fun, but I can't figure her out. I like publicity, but Rosie is not the kind of publicity I need. I'm used to just being Superman. Now I'm Rosie Ruiz's right hand man. I'm used to just being Superman. Now I'm Rosie Ruiz's right hand man. You chose. I'm used to being Superman.

You know, just like marathon, Steve, you chose this. Nobody asked you to do this. Oh, shit. He also says that some good will come of this. Quote, women will get better treatment in races from now on. Closer checking separate finish lines. You'll see. He said that he's been. Closer checking, separate finish lines.

You'll see. He said that he's been, Merrick has been banned from any competition in New York City because of his antics in promoting Superman and his newly formed suburban club. But he doesn't care. He says, quote, I'm 6'3", 225 pounds. I wear the Superman suit to show people that running makes me feel super. I'm not a good runner. It will me 70 70 minutes to finish bloom's day uh maybe 65 i'm gonna get i'm gonna have a good day so let's say 65 if other people see me enjoying running then maybe they'll say if he can do it so can i so yeah he said he considers himself an

ambassador of jogging okay he said uh uh they said uh basically could you ever be elected to that position but if you had to do it would you do it over again you're damned right i'd defend her again i enjoy defending this the persecuted but next time give me an honest one and then he says quote she's a sick person and she's been hushed up by her attorneys okay so now may 6 1980 she talks basically where we mark maric arranges this deal with the press with her uh you know to to arrange a little interview here and um she said that uh her employer gave her four weeks vacation with pay that she's on right now to quote rest and get back into training that's what she said so uh during the cab ride she said that she started telling fucking rosie ruiz jokes to them she said you hear about rosie ruiz pantyhose and she gave all the ones i just told you she told

them all of those they said it was really kind of weird and awkward and they didn't know whether to laugh or if she was like angry at them or yeah what so um this is the hours this is before the race somebody talked to her and uh what did you do when you got or about hours sorry they talked to her now about before the race and what did you do when you got to hop to hop was it hopkinton i got off the bus in front of the high school and walked across to the green then they said you walked across the street from the high school to the green in the center of town and she said yeah that's right which sounds just like john lovitz and yeah that's that's right yeah that's right that's the ticket he said you were a free uh you were free to uh you were free to get onto the road and start anywhere you wanted?

And she said, yeah. And they said, Rosie, the whole street consisted of roped-off sections with big signs and numbers telling you exactly where to line up. And she said, rope signs? Okay, yeah, they were there. She just, okay, yeah, great, yeah. Yeah, I'll just incorporate that in, sure. Just like a fucking liar. That's the ticket.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. You know what else? See? See? Yeah. See? Ruiz made also, you know, they asked her questions.

They were going off over everything with her. They said Rosie said she walked from the high school to the center of town. And they said that's at least a half a mile, not across the street. And she said, I know. And they said, but that's not what you said. You said, and she cut him off and said, quote, look, what am I supposed to do? Remember every little detail? Next time I'll bring a camera.

You'd remember every detail. I'll take pictures of my whole journey. Then they said, what was the start of the race like? And she says, quote, I went out onto the street about a quarter to noon or 10 to 12. I wasn't sure exactly where to line myself up. And they said, was there anything particularly particular or peculiar about the starting area to indicate where you could or should line up? And she said no and they said were you free to get onto the road and start anywhere you wanted and she said yes

and then they were like no there was fucking everything was roped off with signs and that's when she said okay yeah they were there sure rope signs yeah yeah sure that's the ticket um then they uh wow they said they asked her quote do you have an attorney and she said wow, they said, they asked her, quote, do you have an attorney? And she said, no. Then they said, have you ever written a bad check? And she said, quote, she said, of course not. No. They said with like good natured contempt, like goodness me. What do you think of me?

No. And they said, would you look at this, please? It's a Xerox of a summons requesting you to appear in criminal court for passing a bad check to a camera store. And they slid it across the camera. She said oh yeah that's right oh yeah that's right yeah sure see i got arrested once i did it on purpose see i want to check the inside of the jail so i could fill out a full report to the governor see because i'm a i work for the government see i'm a secret agent that's the ticket so uh they said then you must have had an attorney to handle this and then she said sure i have an attorney mr keating it's like they just asked you do you have an attorney you said no

then she was like oh yeah of course i do mr keating yeah that guy um then they said quote is this the bad the only bad check you ever passed and she said oh yes for sure that's the only one so uh then they confirmed that there's an existence of at least 10 other bad checks that she had written and other different times have been arrested for. What about. Oh, yeah. Oh, and then those two. Yeah, you're right. Wow.

So then there's people challenging her to races against like 60 year old men. Other marathons are inviting her to race there. Genius. Yeah, they want its attention. Yeah. She's been challenged to submit herself to tests by a University of Buffalo clinic to see if she does indeed have the stamina

to run in a competitive marathon. They're just going to hook her up to machines and see if she can do it. See if she's even capable. Yeah, scientifically. And then the May 5th Sports Illustrated, which I read this thing, it referred to Rosie as, quote, an unscrupulous competitor subverting a sports event and being judged as an official winner. So, yeah, she's getting fucked around.

They're hammering her. They're hammering her. Now, her job, they think they're embarrassed. He said her boss is a nice guy. He gave her a chance to redeem herself, is what he was saying. He gave her paid leave, like she said, for an absence to train in an upcoming marathon in upstate New York. She said, go prove him wrong. Go prove you could do it.

marathon in upstate New York. She said, go prove him wrong. Go prove you could do it. So he said, quote, I felt I was going above and beyond for her to get back to a competitive level. I said, look, you go run the race and whatever it takes to do the job here in the office will cover for you. But Rosie, you run that race and I don't care what your time is, but finish the race. And she said she would.

And well, exit stage left is what he says yeah so shortly after that uh he came back she came back to him and said that she couldn't run because her ankle hurt all the time of course got a bum ankle now bum ankle i got a fat ass i got some cellulite on the thighs uh her she then said that she had been training on the roads of montauk which uh the problem is that's the same route that her boss trains on and he never saw her there so that wasn't good

he thought that's weird I haven't seen her on my routes he said quote the thing about being a marathon runner is you're running five or six days a week people see you everywhere they think you're nuts out of your mind because that's all you do is run. So when she said Montauk, I said, gee, Rosie, tell me where you're running out there. And she couldn't. Right there, I knew that this isn't going the way that it ought to.

So finally, I said to her, you know, Rosie, it's not making sense. All this really has nothing to do with Boston, but it has everything to do with the fact that I can't trust you. And when I can't trust you, how can I have you back in the office making large cash movements? I felt I had no choice. I had to fire her. So fired for being a liar with a fat ass. So now Ruiz consulted an attorney and contacted the employer, Emtage, with a request to be laid off rather than fired. And he acknowledged that that was a ploy to reap unemployment benefits or get more unemployment benefits. And he refused the request.

He said no. So, yeah, Emtage said his company actually, by the way, didn't pay for her transportation to Boston or her hotel. That was a lie that she told the press. It wasn't true he said all they provided her with was an mti t-shirt which is what she's wearing when she crosses the finish line you'll see that in the social media post and uh you i'll post her finishing the marathon her with like her arm around like a police officer who's like helping her pass the finish line like after she's done you tell me if it looks like she ran 26 miles so um he says quote as i saw it and several of my colleagues saw it she wanted to be

part of the in group at the office and running was her attempt at being accepted he said that uh it was fun it was a fun spirited we had there, everyone young and everyone running. There was corporate running challenges the whole summer. That is my nightmare, corporate running challenge. That sounds – I would fucking kill myself. A, working in a corporate environment, just in an office because I'm terrible in that scenario. And then I have to run competitively while I'm doing this. Against colleagues. Can you just dock me 50 cents an hour and I don't have to do this shit?

Fuck that. Yeah, no. He said it was a fun. There we go. So he said there was close to 100 companies had people running. It was a good girl. It was a girl trying to break through the wrong way, obviously. The sad part was the company was very accepting.

We had people who didn't run well. So what? That was okay. They found their fun with it. Yeah, but they had to run. But Rosie got all caught up with this crazy ass lying and then she couldn't get out. I expect it changed her whole life. You'd think.

Now, Bill Rogers, the winner there, he says, quote, great for our sport, isn't it? Which is fucking hilarious. He says that think of the two most famous marathoners, which is, what is that? Fitipities? Yeah. Fitipities? I don't remember that. I think that's the guy that ran.

Yeah. Yeah. And Rosie Ruiz. One dropped dead and the other was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. He apparently raced. Fitip apparently is the one that ran he ran to marathon he ran into athens in 490 bc and said rejoice we conquer and then keeled over right because he was exhausted was the battle of marathon and he ran from marathon there that's why they call it a marathon he was heralding greece's defeat of persia in the battle of marathon there you go that's what he did so he ran in and said rejoice we conquer and

then he fucking died and his heart exploded it's exactly what happened so because their diet was nothing but fat yeah so other people are getting into the comedy aspect here may 13th 1980 a moline illinois uh radio station sponsors a 26.2 meter rosie ruiz run that's very funny local radio station and the american cancer society sponsoring the first annual rosie ruiz 26.2 meter run to benefit the cancer society kicking rosie right in the dick too because she had cancer it's oh my god the race begins at 8 30 a.m saturday when a lone runner from wqua which is a radio station radio begins a 6.2 mile run arriving downtown at 9.30 a.m.

As the runner approaches the finish line, the remainder of the entrants are invited to jump onto the race 26.2 meters from the finish line. Everyone finishes first. And all the finishers get a T-shirt showing they were first in the Rosie Ruiz 26.2 meter run. The entry fee is $2 a person. Individuals can send it in and not run at all, or they can show up with $2 and get a t-shirt. That's amazing. Fucking genius. I hope they raise a million dollars with that shit.

I know. So then there's Runner's World magazine. Yeah. OK, they get they act like they're like Woodward and Bernstein of running. Basically, they go into this more than they went into fucking Watergate. This is crazy. This is the Watergate of running. crazy this is the water gate of running so they're granted exclusive access to the medical files of her 1973 1978 operations details from those files were read to a physician and a psychologist

specializing in brain function and were assured as much as one can be in such matters that ruiz is in no way brain damaged so So she's not brain damaged. And she's obviously not. This is the this is the paper. This is not me. This is a AP article. And she is obviously not, quote, schizophrenic, paranoid or retarded. What else is there?

Yeah. What else is there? There's a lot of other things in those three things. Jesus Christ. Just those three. She's not. That's it. She's not. she's not that's it she's not she's not those then what uh according to dr robert becklin a professor of psychology at

oberlin college ruiz's words and actions do indeed fit a very recognizable pattern they said that the the syndrome was best described by a man named clocksley. He termed these people, quote, sociopaths. Their chronic behavior frequently includes lying, stealing, defaulting on debts, yet they can seem intelligent, honest, and sociable. That's why it's a difficult disorder to diagnose in an early stage. But Ruiz would appear to be a classic sociopath in many ways. And they go over, here are the points so if you're not if a lot of people know about this but if you don't and you are you know trying to rid yourself of sociopathic behavior around you people around you here's some shit to look out for apparently okay let's see if

this sounds like anybody you know maybe it does who knows maybe it could be your husband your wife your fucking kids your elected officials who the hell knows anybody superior or superficial charm and average or superior intelligence so not an idiot absence of irrationality and other commonly accepted symptoms of psychosis no neurotic anxiety and unease in situations that would unsettle the average individual. No sense of responsibility. No sense of shame. Shame is a big one. A cavalier attitude about telling the truth

and unflappable about lies being detected. Just blow right by that. Antisocial behavior with no apparent regret. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience or punishment. That's a very, there's a lot. How many people do you know like that? A lot. A lot.

A whole lot. Yeah. A whole lot. That's a sociopath, everybody. And that is, if you know people, go, that sounds like so-and-so. That's why they annoy you, because they're a fucking sociopath. Get away from them, probably. This isn't like, but they're sick.

That's not sick. There's no curing that. There's not like, well, he's on medication now, and he's much better. You know, he just needed some help. You can't fix sociopaths. Sociopaths like pedophile. It's just, that's it. You like kids?

You're one of the two. That's it. So anyway, they said that Merrick again, they find. And he says that she he says, quote, she really believes she won the race still, quote. And that's sad. Oh, he he said he objects to those who say that she tried to profit from this. He said, quote, she's been offered ten thousand000 just to appear at races and give out awards. There have been a couple offers for book contracts. She's turned everything down.

That's why you don't know who she is, and that's why she's not as well-known of a person. She ran from it. Because she just ran and hit it, and it was never heard from again. She didn't come back and go on like arsenio in 91 and be like i know 10 years ago crazy right i can't believe it's been 10 years her best running is running from the fame of it all yeah um he said she turned everything down she still runs but obviously all the publicity affected her in a negative way it was scathing i would say um so uh then the that girl lady like i said she ran into her and said she ran the fucking race so

after everything she ended up Rosie returned to New York and went to work for Richard Stevens Inc because she got fired by metal traders as we remember it's a real estate agency and she was well liked by her co-workers coworkers. Former coworkers remember a time that she chased and caught a purse snatcher. Oh, my. She's little, too. She's not a big woman at all. Like, she's a little lady. I mean, I guess she's got a big enough ass to really put some force in it, which I suppose.

And those thighs, you know how it works. And we don't know what that purse snatcher looked like. Could have been a little kid. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. You know these Cubans. They'll just chase you and tackle you. That's what that person actually looked like. Could have been a little kid. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. You know, these Cubans, they'll just chase you and tackle you. That's what that one guy said, right? So then a former friend who asked the newspaper that her name not be used, which I love, said, quote, she was always into schemes.

She was looking for a way to copy from one VCR to another long before anyone else ever considered doing it. Which is as soon as a VCR came out, people were like, can I make a copy for my friend? That was immediate. Everybody thought of that. How can I bootleg shit? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you get two and you put a piece of tape over a fucking non-blank one if you have a

shit one and you do all the whole deal. So she says that fellow employees also wondered how she's a bookkeeper for the real estate agency. So she's not like an agent. She's a bookkeeper, works in the office. They wondered how she really had an extravagant lifestyle. She seemed to live high on the hog. And they were like, wow, what's she up to? One woman said, quote, she went away skiing every weekend.

She lived in Greenwich Village and took cabs to work every day, which in New York, that's the that's that's the the divider line in New York City. Or at least it used to be of like if you are doing very well or if you're like blue collar is how do you get to work? Yeah. Subway and bus is one. And then if you just take a cab every day, that's a that's another echelon. Yeah. Regular people don't take cabs to work every day. It's expensive as fuck. But she did. Everyone believed that her brother in Florida was supplementing her income. That was the whole consensus. But then on April 20th, 1982, this is on the day of the Boston Marathon, by the way, in 1982.

This is 30 minutes before the beginning of the Boston Marathon, by the way, in 1982, this is 30 minutes before the beginning of the Boston Marathon that year. She is arrested and she is charged with grand larceny. Oh, boy. Yes. She is apparently been charged with grand larceny and forgery in the alleged theft of $15,000 in cash and $45,000 in checks. That's a lot. Yeah, from her employer. The president of the real estate agency charged that Ruiz, who was a bookkeeper, obviously,

he complained that on April 5th, he noticed $60,000 in cash and checks was missing. And on Monday, as an auditor was going over the real estate firm's books to determine what the fuck happened, that's when detectives caught up with Ruiz 30 minutes before the start of the marathon. Hilarious. So she got away. Yeah, it's fine. She got away and then fucking disappears into nowhere. And then she's got to scam this which even if anybody believes she ran the marathon now they don't believe her anymore after this now you know you know she's now it just it becomes a pattern of behavior she's a thief in a swindler it's not yeah it's not good and uh you know she's disappointed with herself she really is and uh

but she's she's home and uh you know she she's sitting there and she hears a knock at the door. And she's like, oh, no, are the cops going to arrest me again? Is this a fucking reporter? And it's none of those people. It's my grandma. And she says. Ma, how is it you come to arrive here? Ma, why you here?

Ma, you supposed to be nice girl. You run around, you steal the money, you go ski in the mountains like a putan. Why? Why? Why you do? Let me tell you, between me and you, your ass is a little bit fat. Maybe I'm just safe. Maybe you eat a little less. Why you do? I'm so sad. She's making me so upset. I can't even. And then there's dogs barking behind her. And it's Bobby Colorado, and he's there to help grandma comes up he goes

hey don't worry about i'll take it from here hey you upset the old lady the fuck is wrong with you are you upsetting fucking old ladies you're lying you're fucking stealing this is bullshit i don't understand you at all i think you're full of shit i'd give you a dog but you'd probably be like yeah i'll take a dog and then you'd like say you take it but you leave and then you'd be tied to a fucking park bench or something so i don't believe a word you say you made an old lady cry i'm very fucking disappointed in you and i'm done with you get the fuck out of here poof and in a poof of marinara sauce and dog shit they're both gone rosie is very very very very confused so next you have to wonder is she even her oh my stop this who she says she is um in 1980 ruiz gave her birth name as maria morales which is not true according to

her aunt uh maria grovis who we talked about before. She says her niece was born Maria Rosario Ruiz, and neither the name Morales nor Ruiz were. This is crazy. She's not fucking. She's not Morales. And it's just it's silly. So it's already believed that Ruiz sometimes uses the name M. Alvarez at that point in time. And she's this other woman who is the name that Alvarez at that point in time and uh she's this

other woman who is the name that she went under said I'm very sorry but I don't recall the good woman and the good woman had so many names didn't she she was a polite lady says I don't know who you're talking about this whole thing is pretty fucking ridiculous it's it's why surprising what is she doing is she pretending to be somebody she's not? And then faking running races? What is she trying to do? The whole thing is so crazy. The only thing that's crazier is the sales, Jimmy.

That's the only thing crazier are the sales going on in 1983. Oh, buddy, you can get some good shit here. Check this out. I found in the, you got to get a car for cruising. You got to go out that night and cruise. I found, oh, here we go. Here's some Harleys, Jimmy. What do you think of this? A 1946 Harley Davidson.

Yeah. 46. Very cool. Knucklehead. Yeah. All chrome. Oh. 12-inch over wide glide, like new tires and engine and transmission.

Both rebuilt. A 46? Belt drive. 46. $3,500 firm. bench over wide glide like new tires and engine and transmission both rebuilt a 46 drive 46 uh thirty five hundred dollars firm that's a deal i would say yeah 77 it's a honda nobody wants nobody wants there what do we got here 77 harley sportster custom 2500 or best offer must sell run with that run with that uh knucklehead that one's better that's not bad here we go 69 camaro z28 302 my god restored all new interior engine completely rebuilt radials black and silver metallic a real collector 5500 bucks wow my god 57 cadillac two two-door, California car, very good condition, $1,500. That car still ran.

Dude, we saw a 59 Cadillac that was rusted to shit sitting out somewhere, me and Sarah, and we looked it up on Facebook Marketplace just to see what some crazy fuck would ask for it. They wanted $6,500 for it. It didn't even have an engine. It was just a rusty frame, and you could get it here in good condition for $1,500. 67 Bonneville convertible. Okay.

Badass, $2,500. 53 Buick Roadmaster, 35,000 original miles. What? $1,500. Are you... Oh, my God. Isn't this in the 80s?

This is in 1983. Wow. 63 Corvette. Yeah. Split window. Oh, yeah. The only fucking year. The greatest 63 Corvette split window, mint condition, 327, 250 horsepower, original window

sticker, and bill of sale. Silver, blue, and blue dark interior. $12,500. $150,000 today. $150,000 that is today. Holy fucking shit. So let's say you buy yourself a nice car. You want to cruise on down.

Go over to, what is this, a fortune teller? Yeah. Go over to Sister Graham. Oh, yeah uh what is this a fortune teller yeah go over to sister graham oh yeah sister graham has a picture i'll show it to you because it's ridiculous it's not three nipples i don't want to say jesus with a crown of thorns okay so i don't know if sister graham is a nun i don't know or what here but they do esp palm reading and advice and tarot cards as well. Tarot cards. I'll advise you on all matters. Oh, jeez. I'll tell you what you want to know

about friends, enemies, and how to overpower them. What the fuck? I'll tell you how to gain the love you desire. Let me lift evil influences from your life. Okay.

Wow. And then head on down to Sonia's Hair Boutique. Oh, Hair Unique. Sorry, not Boutique. Oh, Hair Unique. Sorry, not Boutique. Now, in this ad, I want to show you something, Jimmy. Let me turn the monitor over to you here. Oh, shit.

Sonia's Hair Unique. Yeah. Okay? Sonia's Hair Unique. They're spelled differently. They are. There's an I and a Y. They are an inch and a half apart in the newspaper.

Just a picture of said Sonia underneath it. And on both sides of her. She's changed how to spell her name in two inches. She's changed how to spell her name. Yeah. But her most recent workshop being the Alabama-sponsored Gulf States Hair Show in Birmingham. Oh, boy. So, going out there.

And then, head on over to a restaurant called what a potato okay what a potato where tuesday ramsay calls you when you when you fuck up that's a potato oh the salmon's undercooked what a a potato. What's a potato? So, what a potato. Tuesday is sirloin tip day with onions and peppers or mushroom sauce and choice of potato bar or french fries and sizzling bread. Only $2.79. That's a deal. Wow.

Who chooses fries over a potato bar? Yeah, you get a free potato bar with any steak dinner. Potato bar items come with eight great toppings. That is awesome. And then you're full of potatoes. Head over to the movies that day in 1983 in November where you can go see a Christmas story playing in the theater. You'll shoot your fucking eye out. Wow.

And it's the original showing of it. That's awesome. Oh, yeah. It's an 83 movie. You can go see A Night in Heaven, which isn't a porn. It's rated R. It looks like Matt Dillon, but it's a newspaper picture, so I can't really tell.

Then we have Tom Cruise and All the Right Moves. Wow. After that, Chevy Chase and Deal of the Century. It's a good movie. Richard Pryor, Here and Now. Fuck yeah. There we go. Star Wars, Return of the Jedi is playing as well.

Let's see. Never Say Never Again. What do we got here? Rumblefish with Matt Dillon. That is a Matt Dillon movie. Girls Night Out. And Mary Steenburgen in Cross Creek as well. Amityville 3D is playing.

Cool. You can go see Flashdance. Here we go. 48 Hours is playing. Oh, yes. Fuck yeah. In the theater. Badass.

The Man from Snowy River. And The Verdict you can see. And then Dudley Moore and Mary Steenburgen in Romantic Comedy, whatever the fuck that is. Some movie that Dudley Moore's in. You're too cheap to go to the movies? Well, at home, I'll show you this advertisement for CBS at home. We've got the touch. Watch the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather,

and then Holiday Treats Tonight, Classic Creatures, Return of the Jedi, with scenes from Return of the Jedi, E.T., King Kong, Godzilla, and more. Hosted by Carrie Fisher and Billy Dee Williams. Terrific. Wow, that's going to be great. Then on Newhart, Dick invites the whole town for turkey. So that's going to be a lot of people.

That'll be a calamity there. Too many people, not enough turkey. That'd be a problem. The 80s, man. That's bad movies. That was a lot of bad movies. The early 80s. A couple of good ones in there, but a lot of bad ones.

Mid-80s, though, started to get better. Once 84 came around there's a shitload of good movies from like 84 85 yeah they start to turn good man yeah that really early 80s was brutal yeah other than night shift which is like my favorite comedy um other than that there's not a lot there's a few i'm sure but if they're your vacation national lampoon's vacation was out then brewster'sster's Millions was 84. That's why Star Wars crushed, because there was fucking nothing else. I'm convinced of it. I saw very little Star Wars.

Those movies, those are terrible movies. But at the time, if you were a kid at the time, nothing else was like that. I could see it at the time. It bored the piss out of me. Terrible movies. I know we're i i know we're in the minority i get it you don't like star wars no i've never seen them all the way through because i fucking fell asleep watching every single one pass out amid star war any any

star war you line in front of me that war will put me to sleep i am done with that 10 to 15 minutes of your war of the stars and i'm done i took took my little brother to see the Phantom Menace one, the episode one. They have that pod race with all this crap. I fell asleep in the middle of it and slept for the rest of the fucking movie because it was terrible. So now Rosie gets sentenced here because she pleads guilty and everything. She is sentenced to, you ma'am, may fuck off five years probation for Rosie. So slap on the wrist for Rosie. For the checks? Slap on the wrist for the checks and the cash that she stole from her job.

Now, I assume she doesn't have that job anymore. You've got to assume. She's got to find something else to do, and apparently she did, because in November of 1983, November 1st as a matter of fact, she is part of what is being called an all-girl cocaine ring. Awesome. An all-woman cocaine ring here. She was ahead of her time. She really was.

Apparently, she surrendered a few days after everyone else got caught because she wasn't at the airport where everyone else got caught. She was being held on a $25,000 bond. Two other members of the drug ring were arrested last week. Her lawyer, William Castro, said she would plead innocent, and she didn't do anything. Her two co-conspirators, Olga Bustamante and Marga Upeguay, who we'll talk about her in a little while here, they agreed to sell about basically two kilos of fucking coke, basically a little over four pounds of coke to undercover detectives for fifty two thousand dollars.

Wow. And yeah. And Bustamante delivered the cocaine and to a hotel and she was arrested. And a short time later, the Oopagwai was picked up as well where she worked as a waitress so she was working as a waitress and trying to sling coke so she didn't have to work as a waitress probably so yeah it's not good

they said that Ruiz obviously she's the one who anybody gives a shit about because she's like famous for doing this shit she was like we said, arrested before this. And she's in kind of deep shit here. This is only 19 months after the original mess. And she spends 23 days in a Miami lockup here.

Then she marries a guy. Before the case is over, she marries a man named Acario Vivas, V-I-V-A-S, in January of 84. And I don't know if he gets her out or what the fucking deal is, but she marries this guy. And in February of 84, she is sentenced. It's a shitload of coke, and you're selling it. Before she is sentenced to a shitload of coke and you're selling it, you, ma'am, may fuck off two years probation. Wow. So she has lucked the fuck out.

Gender inequality as fuck. Good for her. That is one thing. And I'm going to lead this off by saying, yes, fucking women have it horrible compared to men and all that stuff. The only place, the only place that you have an advantage besides maybe, you know, whatever, certain social situations is the fact that the courtroom don't fuck. Statistically, you get way lower sentences than guys do. Just way lower. Way fucking low and way higher child support. So good for you.

do just way lower way fucking low and way higher child support so good for you well because part of being sexist as a guy is feeling like you need to protect women and that's part of it so you you benefit in that way of if you sell a bunch of cocaine you only get two years probation even if you're a fucking already on probation for five years for stealing a shitload of money that is wild so it happens so uh william castro said afterwards, quote, when I was arguing to get her released on bond, I deadpan to the judge, quote, your honor, she's not a runner. No. Look at that ass, your honor. Look at her.

Turn around. Show her your thighs. So she moved to West Palm Beach with her new husband. Wow. She's doing great. Yeah. She's doing great. Yeah, she's doing fantastic. But,

uh, the problem is her apartment ends up being repossessed in West Palm beach in 1987. So yeah, she gets basically foreclosed upon and, she only married that one guy and she was, uh, apparently Vivas,

the guy she married was divorced on december 8th 1983 and then married her january 20th 1984 which is really really weird and this this was 72 hours before she was released on 25 000 personal surety bond co-signed by him so she married the guy was like i'll get you out but you got to marry me that's weird it's like jimmy iovine with tupac i'll get you out but you got to record five fucking albums or some shit did like did he need did he need a citizen to marry or something what was happening he was already married i don't think that's right he was he had unless he got a goddamn divorce to marry her i don't know so now there's a medical investigation by the way because the press is still interested in her sure and uh basically they find that the

operations were performed by dr frederico marrero in florida and that's the his wife had never heard of him of this woman but she didn't you know all the patients husband had died already the surgeon so uh she said she couldn't recall whether ruiz was one of her husband's patients uh they said he was the first and for many years the only cuban neurosurgeon in miami in the air in florida so cubans came from all over the country to her husband she said so maybe ruiz was one of them who the fuck knows so in the 90s they catch back up with steve merrick yeah he is a marriage counselor now this guy's going to tell you about your relationship he finally tells the boston globe

that six to nine months after the race rosie finally admitted to him that she snuck into the marathon in its final stages she said that she doused herself with water to make it look like as she was perspiring. And then she entered the race between Kenmore Square and the finish line. He said, quote, she jumped out of the crowd, not knowing that the first woman hadn't gone by. Oh, no. Believe me. Believe me. She was as shocked as anyone else when she came in first.

She wasn't trying to win. She was like, oh, shit when she came in first. She didn't even try to win. She wasn't trying to win. She was like, oh, shit. Whoops. They were like, you won. And she was like, oh, fuck. Uh-oh. Oh, no.

Didn't want to do that. She just wanted to look cool at work. Yeah. And like finish in the top, you know, whatever the fuck. That's all it was. So he said, believe me, she was as shocked as anyone when she came in first. But at that point, they had put the crown on her and gave her the medal and told her she's the winner how could she say no i'm not you know she could say no i'm not he says he remembers saying to her months later obviously

you didn't run it and she looked at me and said i'm embarrassed to say it why do i have to tell you it was something much like that to paraphrase i don't have to tell you steve i think you know something like that and uh she says he says i might be the only person that uh basically that she told that said anything about it publicly he says quote i believe that she i believed what she was saying for a month or so and hey let's face it the baa did a poor job of monitoring the female side of the race up till rosie ran really, they didn't give a poop what the ladies did. Not poop one about these ladies. No poops, Jimmy. None.

Not a single poop. Not a single poop. I have to say, though, that Will Cloney was a wonderful man through it all. I was there when he wanted the medal back, but Rosie was adamant. She really believed at that point. I think that she had run it. He thinks she believed it. And Will said to her, go ahead and keep it, honey.

That's okay. He looked at me and winked as if to say, look, she's had enough trouble. Just let her go. It's not worth it. It's a medal. Who gives a shit? Who gives a poop? Who gives a poop? Who gives a poop?

It's just milk chocolate wrapped in a gold foil anyway. Who cares? It's going to melt on the plane. Doesn't matter. So Ruiz, yeah, he said that he would defend her under the same circumstances, though. He said, as much as I took it on the chin up there at the time, people didn't like me in Boston because they feel like their race is so sacrosanct. I simply felt it was a woman who was reaching out for help. And I thought, gosh, if this were my sister, would I want her to go at it alone?

Of course not. I'd want someone to help her. That's nice. So I gave in and were poop. Now, obviously, I mean, she's obviously got some sort of issues and there's something going on here. You know, you got to. She hasn't hurt anybody. That's the thing.

Other than stealing money from her boss. Yeah. She sold some coke to people who wanted coke and she fucking, you know, checks. She she ruined somebody's marathon experience that they didn't get to be declared the winner at the spot of the race. That's it. But other than that, she didn't fucking hurt people physically. She didn't get to be declared the winner at the spot of the race that's it but other than that she didn't fucking hurt people physically she didn't ruin anybody financially you know what i mean like anything like that but why is she doing this that's well she's got problems that's what i mean so you almost feel bad for her you know what i mean

it's close i mean almost but not nearly as bad oh dear christ dear Christ. As you feel for Rosie Ruiz, senior financial aid counselor at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, California. You're going to read every single one, right? No, no, no. There's like 700. Rosie Ruiz, graphic design major in Illinois.

Rosie Ruiz, owner Havana House Cafe in Florida. Oh, boy. Rosie Ruiz legal assistant which is what she needs. Rosie Ruiz virtual administrative assistant in Corpus Christi, Texas. Rosie Ruiz

president and owner at Stay in Gold Cocktails in LA. Rosie Ruiz service consultant at Mercedes-Benz of Coral Gables in Florida. She has a perfect five-star rating and 32 reviews. And she's worked there for 12 years and two months. She's doing great.

Unless she wrote all those reviews. Well, here's one. Rosie is extremely professional, courteous, responsive, and always goes out of her way to make things work. Amazing customer service. She's a true asset to your team oh boy and finally really someone you need to extra mile she she just runs that extra mile well she'll only run one mile for you but it's extra finally the person you have to trust rosie ruiz real estate agent in crystal river florida like oh jesus this poor woman 1996 she's finally found for an interview okay okay uh again and she uh there's a basically they find her but they don't interview

her at this point she is with her at uh quote longtime life companion marta epigua epigua the girl the woman he she got caught selling coke with. She's now been with her this whole time. So I don't know what the fuck's going on here. So she was very surprised to see press found them. She said this is Epigwai or Epigwai said, quote, who told you? How did you find us? Who told you this is where she lives?

So they were very, you know, very surprised. Not keen on talking. In 1998, she claims she has proof that she ran the marathon. Okay. Now she's got proof. She says that she has photographs. She said her victory was a triumph for women in sports and she won't have it cheapened. She won't, Jimmy.

She said the medal is tucked safely, but she won't say where in case they want to come for it. She said it hurts me to know I did something good, but I got so many problems out of it. She said she's reluctant to go public with the evidence because no one's going to take her seriously. She said she got divorced in 86, but kept her new name. So she's going by Rosie Vivas now. And she said she's a client representative for a medical lab company. And she's been, you know, they said, quote, she's been running from controversy for nearly two decades. Did you have to put it like that?

She's also been sued by landlords a bunch of times. She had a couple of foreclosures. She claims that the short hairstyle she wore in 1980, that that's the reason. She goes, it's all about the fucking hairstyle. It's ridiculous. She says, and to prove it to you, I'm going to race again.

Okay. The whole time she was doing this jerry seinfeld i always hold off on seinfeld references because you haven't seen it but there's this one where seinfeld he got a an early start on this race in middle school or elementary school or something and beat this guy who thought he was faster and he runs into him later and the guy challenges him to a race and jerry because nobody saw him get the head start, everyone thought he was like the fastest person in the world. So rather than just say, no, I got a head start,

he just never raced again. And he said, anytime someone would ask him, he goes, not even to the end of the block or for a bus. Anytime they'd ask me, I'd say, I choose not to run. He goes, the track coach called my house, telling my parents it was a shame it was a sin for me to waste my god-given talent it's so fucking funny i choose not to run that's what she's been doing uh she says that she will be she'll be 44 by the 1998 marathon the 2000 marathon okay she says that um she's gonna run in 2000 it's 98 now she said i may

not win this time but i will be there and run again the entire course just as before okay yeah she said i'm going to do it by the book she says what i can promise myself and the american public who believes in me is to run again i may not win time, but I'll be there and I'll run again. That's that. So she said, this time I'll be more prepared. I'll look just like any other runner. I'm sure they won't make a mistake this time. She's like, I'm going to really, I'm going to be like, have a sign coming up.

I'm Rosie. I'm going to have a ponytail, my makeup done. All of it. So 2,000 people are looking for Rosie again, and they find her brother who gives people her beeper number and they beep her and then she won't call back and then she does answer and then she yells at you and fucking hangs up on people it's sometimes she wants to talk sometimes she doesn't uh her her partner there said quote i didn't know her then but i know she would like to forget about it it's very painful for her i don't said quote i didn't know her then but i know she would like to forget about it it's very painful for her i don't feel like i have the right to talk about

her personal life and uh then she said quote how do you know my name and they said they said well uh the uh you've they said because it's on a computer search so you guys have the same address so yeah it's pretty easy because you're in a computer search, so you guys have the same address. So, yeah, it's pretty easy. Because you're in a relationship, and you guys are together. You know. So they talked to Wayne State College in Nebraska to try to find her, and the director of college relations said, quote, we have no idea where she is. She's not in Wayne, I can tell you that.

She's not the most distinguished alum of this university. We don't want to talk about her. Barely alum, right? For alum, don't you got to graduate? I think so. Be there a little longer. So her lawyer says she's not a bad lady. The one who got her off on the, you know, she's not a runner, your honor.

He says Castro's his name. He says that he highly doubts that ruiz continued down a path of grand theft and forgery and drug dealing he said being a criminal wasn't what she was about he says she's smart if i were guessing i would say sales were her calling yeah she can convince people anything yeah she'll sell you a load of shit sociopaths are great for sales it's true they really are so uh castro has been suspended from the flor bar, by the way, her lawyer pending his appeal of a conviction for kicking back pro bono fees to Dade County Circuit Judge Roy Gelber. He was one of four attorneys caught in the scam that totaled one hundred and twenty four hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Wow. Her former attorney also believes that ruiz might enjoy the lingering

questions about her run in boston and uh that sort of thing he said quote there's a tease in it an element of the mischievousness of the unknown yeah he thinks that's what she's about he has her beeper number though and he said he was trying to make contact with her and uh all that sort of thing he says that there were people who read about Boston and then her arrest for the cocaine charge. For some reason, I guess they were fascinated. They wanted to establish a relationship, a relationship, sometimes men, sometimes women, suggesting maybe writing a letter.

It could start a friendship and perhaps it could lead to something else. Some as a sign of being earnest, they would send her money. If she wrote back, I only kept a few. It goes without saying that most were without sentence structure. In some cases without thought structure, reading them as like sliding down a mountain, painful, slow,

and tedious about these letters. He says, uh, that she never intended to win, but he only thinks she wanted to jump in and finish at a time and then return to her job in Manhattan and say, Hey, look at me.

I finished the race and have all of her friends think she was cool. That's it. He said, quote, had she waited another five minutes that afternoon, her life would have been completely different. Yeah. Yeah.

Which is true. He said, I feel okay saying this because like Rosie, I'm Cuban. Uh, but we have an expression. We call it Cuban time. For example, if a Cuban says, see you at seven 30, then everyone knows, but we have an expression. We call it Cuban time. For example, if a Cuban says see you at 730,

then everyone knows it means 8 o'clock. Maybe that was Rosie's problem. She was wearing her American watch that day and not her Cuban watch. If she had been wearing her Cuban watch, maybe everything would have turned out all right. Okay. Did he just?

Wow. Yes, he did. He can't do that. Even if you you're that you can't say i guess i don't fucking know i'm just gonna go past that i have no idea i don't know how to parse that cubans figure that out amongst yourselves i don't know there's cuban people's time is that what he's saying yeah he said cpt cuban people's time is what he said yeah he goes you know cpt cuban people's time okay it's weird as fuck and yeah so that's not coming from us by the way that's coming from him nobody fucking yell at us for that shit he claimed that not us so um he she's found

at one point uh they find her. Listen to this. They said, out of the car came, this is when they go to her house, she pulled up in her car. This is the reporter for the Boston Globe. Out of the car came Ruiz,

looking much as she did in April 21st, 1980, dressed in a t-shirt and running shorts, identical in tone and shine to the car. Her hair was still jet black, her bum-back-like legs

thicker and more bum-beckian with age. That's a fascinating. This poor woman has got to be really self-conscious about her thighs at this point. I would be. Fuck, I'd feel terrible about myself. Like a Cuban Hillary Clinton. Yeah, a real thick thigh.

So she they said, Rosie. And she said, yes, who are you? And she said, I'm with the Boston Globe. Ruiz said, what are you doing here? What do you want? And she said, I'm writing a story about the 1980 Boston Marathon. And Ruiz said, I'm not interested. Tucked her head down and walked past.

That was that. That was that. Ruiz said, they said, are you sure? And she said, I'm sure, and slammed the door behind her. In 2007, 8, or 9, somewhere around there, the late aughts, Rosie's diagnosed with cancer. Oh, no. Not sure what type of cancer, but on July 8, 2019, Rosie dies at age 66. Fuck!

Of cancer, which sucks. That sucks. You don't want her to die. She never hurt anybody. No. That's what i'm saying so um her death went unnoticed for about a month until after details were posted from the funeral or from certain details were posted on the on the website and that's what made reporters put two and two together she tried to keep it quiet they said a funeral is not scheduled due to rosie's final wishes um she uh there was a funeral home

that makes no mention of the marathon or anything like that but they said she would always remember want you to remember to celebrate or celebrate life because tomorrow is never promised never forget to fight no matter what life throws your way and uh they uh yeah so she's uh 2019 what month june yeah or? June, June 8th, or July, July 8th. Okay. July 8th, 2019. You know what she's doing, right? She's postponing it until the next year around April so that somebody can spread her ashes

at the finish line. Yeah, she's going to be like, I won now, bitch. That would be rad. I win, motherfucker. That would be the greatest fuck you to everybody. That's great. you to everybody that's great so rogers the the winner there that guy he says rosie ruiz is pro is the most famous runner of all time really to the general public in the media everybody knows about rosie ruiz i think it's kind of funny to be honest um another another runner said you knew

she lied but like a kid when you you lie, you stick to it. She got caught. I don't think she meant to finish first. She was out of her realm. Thinking about it, you know, I feel bad for her. Poor thing. I hope someday, I hope at some point she was happy. That was one of the runners that finished behind her.

That was like fifth or something. Castro, her lawyer, said, quote, she was a character. She had personality and she was very industrious. I would say so. She rode the subway instead of running the had personality, and she was very industrious. I would say so. She rode the subway instead of running the marathon. Fuck yes, she's industrious. Something. Can't get enough?

Fake winning a marathon. Be the next Rosie Ruiz. Who knows? Give it a shot. It is hilarious that she did it. It's wild. Or I found this book that I don't recommend that you buy because it is it's literally just newspaper articles like on the page and i i i've gone through everything from every newspaper article ever written about her so you've heard anything that's in this book

but if you want to see a bunch of pictures of her and of the articles and stuff it's called rosie ruiz shortcuts to fame and it's like it's 12 euros so you can fame. And it's like, it's 12 euros. So you can try that there. It's just newspaper clippings. But that, everybody, is Rosie fucking Ruiz and her thick ass fine thighs on her. What a story. That shit's crazy, right? That's the funniest goddamn thing that we've ever covered. That's hysterical

fucking bonkers that story i'm telling you she pulled it off twice you know twice one leading into the other and i like dude i i when i found this story a while back i had it as like a bonus episode but then when i looked into it i'm like there's too much here for a bonus man you just you'd skip over all the good stuff if it was a bonus oh she faked this she got arrested okay whatever who cares about that i want to hear about people running behind her going i was checking every posterior side of every woman that passed me i saw every cellulite divot and every thigh on that course i never saw that one never saw that one. Never saw that one. It's bullshit.

So that said, if you like that show, everybody, give us five stars. Tell the world about it. Yeah. For 500 episodes of shows here, tell everybody that you like the damn show on Apple Podcasts. Head over to Shut Up and Give Me Murder.com for everything small town murder and crime and sports all of your merchandise is there tickets to live shows they're stacked out get your tickets right now because a they're going fast and b a lot of them are already gone to begin with from being sold when we first announced the tour a year and a half ago before the whole world

went crazy so and shut down and we didn't go anywhere and shit was nuts so we're hoping here we are first courses and we get fucking back anywhere and shit was nuts so we're hoping here we are first courses and we get fucking back to you so fingers crossed we're dying let's do this so we want to see you everybody so get your tickets right now for that uh follow us on social media we are at murder or at crime and sports on twitter and facebook at small town murder on instagram uh patreon my goodness patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Do we have some doozies for you this week, as usual. And as always, you get access to all the shows.

Small Town Murders bonus, Crime and Sports bonus. They all kind of go together anyway. So you get access to everything if you're over the $5 mark. And this week, the two shows are for Crime and Sports. We are going to do the Congressional Steroidid scandal of the mid-2000s there. I can't wait. Because we're doing cheating, so I figured we would talk about that. The real cheaters.

It's hilarious to hear these indignant people. How dare you accuse me of this when it's just all you were doing? So we'll make fun of some baseball players. It's a million-dollar cheat. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I have never, ever. And then for small town murder, this is going to be, I've never looked this forward to a bonus episode. We're going to do a bonus episode about Ted Bundy.

And if there's a few different psychological factors we want to discuss. But the main thing is, if he had just a few more pairs of socks, would it have been OK? Could it have been reversed? Could the course of life been changed? Yeah, it sounds strange. But when you hear from him and his interviews and everything, we'll get into that and some of the psychology of Ted Bundy. But the first and foremost and most interesting thing is what the fuck with the socks and we'll get into it. Socks and underwear too, but mainly socks.

Holy shit. It's, it sounds like you're like, what the fuck socks? Trust us. It's crazy. It's just as crazy as it sounds. So you can get that and everything else, all the whole back catalog you'll have access to at patrion.com slash crime and sports. Anybody over the $5 level, like we said, patrion.com slash crime and sports anybody over the five dollar level like we said patreon dot com

slash crime and sports you'll also get a shout out because we love you if you're doing that you're you're a member of the squad here you're a producer so jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show actually very shortly here and then uh even if you donate on paypal you can get a shout out that way you're a producer so no matter what we're appreciative of it that said jimmy i think maybe i could be crazy here but i think maybe maybe it's time to hit me with the names of my favorite fucking people on the face of the earth jimmy level me with them like a goddamn baseball bat right now this week's executive producers are Jordan Bennett, Gabrielle East-Lopez, John Harper, and the IT team. Cameron Koshwara,

you're the producer of the week, Cameron. Thank you so much. Thank you. Unbelievably kind of you. Thank you. Amazing. Carol Braun's sticking around. And this one, Zoncheetle, I think? Zoncheetle? With an X?

I don't know. And Carla Dayoff. Dayoff?ahn-Sheetal? All right. With an X? I don't know. And Carla Dayhoff. Dayhoff? She got a Dayhoff? D-A-Y-H-O-F-F? I can't pronounce that right. Oh, shit. Thank you. That'll never happen.

Either way, appreciate you. You guys are terrific. Thank you so much. Other producers this week are Samantha Quigley, Annalena Holmberg, Heather Knight is celebrating her divorce. Congratulations. Hey, congrats. Martin Principal Olson, Jess Campanella, Serena Lee, Isabella Simpson's brother. Nope, her sister, Naomi, had a birthday.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Dennis Hill, Harry Rubin, Thomas DeMello, Matthew Webster, Sarah Surge, Thomas Smith, Reverend Lindsey King, Frau Blucher, Crystal Osig, Natalie Yulvin, Daniel Tebow. And he goes to, he went to, I don't know, maybe still, he went to Mel Hall's high school. Lauren Demrath, Cody Leversey got engaged. One day maybe we'll celebrate his divorce. Hopefully not. Cody's true. Good day maybe we'll celebrate his divorce. Hopefully not. Cody Stewart. Good luck. Under the Sea Fabrics. Tiffany Gonzalez got one by

us last week with Steve Martin's name in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Was it Neil? Yeah. Not Griffin. That was fucking John Candy. Dell. Dell. Yeah. Dell Griffith.

Neil was last week. I forget his John Candy. Dell. Dell. Yeah, Dell Griffith. But she said, Neil was last week. I forget his last name. Doesn't matter. James Marder, Aneas, Roney, Rone. Neither of those are right. I apologize. Neither one. Corporal Carl Kirshner had a deer commit venocide with his car, so he's dealing with that.

Larry Cooley, Jamie Hammer, Deborah Scaramastra. Scar, Scara, Scaramastra. Nope, it's Italian, right? Yeah, you're out on that. Alan Westphal, Mary Case, Karen Foster, Kessia Isaacson, Tony Espinosa, Dave Parker. Probably not that one. Emma Pfeiffer, I think that's Michelle's sister.

S. Pence, Jessica Hansen. Kathy with no last name. Terry Burrows. Michelle Utzinger. Jesus. Ryan Rice. Sarah Mallett. Nikolaj Olson.

Nicholas? I don't know. Melissa Turgeon. Joseph Mayfield. Margo Christensen. Casey Donaldson. Helen Black. Kinson Anna.

Miranda Vauder. Cheryl Kate. AB, Matt Amorose, Andrew Davey, Angie Bray, Kaya Meineke, M. Norton Matthews, Ayuma Ayumi, loves K-pop. I imagine that Korean pop music. Brooke Fowler, that felt like I was an old man. imagine that Korean pop music. Brooke Fowler. Yeah, I would think so. That felt like I was an old man. That goddamn Korean pop music. That's the Korean music they're putting out nowadays there. Shelly Mercado. Maya Cox. Tuka Niner.

Sally with no last name. Amelia Rose. Gilly Jilly. Brooke Smiller. Joshua with no last name. Justin John Jacob. Jingleheimer Schmidt Bauer. Mary with no last name, Justin, John Jacob, Jingleheimer, Schmidt, Bauer, Mary with no last name, April Bendury, Bender over, Brandon Beasley, Vincent, Vincente Perez,

Sharna Matthews, Tyler Munson, Chuck Smith, still Usher, Johnny Betancourt, Caitlin Kreider, Kale Crowan, David Hannon, Carol with no last name, Karen Regora, Rob Diaz, Drew Biddle, Aaron Smith, Sarah Dermer, Tori Alicia, Bri Scala, Jenny Thetford, Tara Hammond, the dork of the planes, Laura Sanchez, Jessica Lopez, Michael Best, Kimberly with no last name, Peggy Fernbach, Jill Rydell, Lori Jean Cook, Anthony Philpot, Philpo maybe, Ash with no last name, also Kara with no last name, Daniel Bickerton, Jason Gladney, Kiara Tyus, Finn Adkins, Jessica Sturdy, Nicole Atherton, Tyler Maus, Donald with no last name. Evan Hoffman, Kelly, Kellan, Kellan Highfield, Matt Kleeman, Cade B,

Emmanuel Ofori, Nathan Frankst, Ian and Stacey Ferenczi, Donna Sepulveda, Austin Lynch, Jennifer Kuhl, Kiara Groff, there has been three or four of those, Ooh, Kiara Gruff. There has been three or four of those. Stephen Looper. Tamara King. Jessica Christofferson. Mandy Brough. Brian Rice.

Sarah Pacindo. Sari Theobaldi. Mason Judge. Grant Anderson. Crimson Mertz. Shane Hirschman. Laura Sauter. Sauter.

Lauren, what is this, Linehan? Dick, nope, that's Nick D'Amico. Walter Fritz, Brandon Geyer, Lindsey D., Katie Kreener, Richard Doyle, Bailey Myers, Haley Craighead, Brandy Minard, Gerard with no last name, Gabrielle Montoya, Joey Hepler, Hadrian Ringstad-Kent, Deanna Menorak, boy, oh boy. You're on a roll. This isn't very good at all.

Hannah Weiss, Olivia Bernard, Lisa Schwartz, Bennett Bode, Overlord Whiskey, Casey Utter, Adam Mitchell, Rebecca Flowers, Aaron Kilgore, Nathaniel Minocci, Christy Talton, Whitney Tolette, April Wheeler, Anna Tesling, Stephanie Zoback, Jim Briggs, Emily Smith, Kathy Bader, Lauren Hache, Mona Davis, Andrew Grieve. This episode also brought to you by the letter D. Darren Morin, Chance Huberty, Allison Parr, Jessica with no last name, Michelle Campbell, Kyle Wilson, Christina Kolsch, Luis Butler, Rachel Koontz, Michael Brown, Neil Coker, Chris Calloway, Christine Golke, Scott Ingle, Corrine Darcy, Sammy McCoy, Chanel Lounsbury, Eric Pekuch, Michelle Ramirez, John Kelly, Noah Pope, Robert Rosenow, and all of our patrons. You guys are unbelievable.

Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. From the bottom of our shriveled, cold, dead hearts, we really do appreciate it. And that does really warm us up in the old chest hole. So thank you for everything you do for us. We really do appreciate it. Jimmy, what if they wanted to tell you something either nice or insulting?

How could they find you? Tickle my rib cavity at at Wisman sucks. W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks. What about you, James? You could find me at Jimmy P is funny or just copy and paste or just look, just Google the show and you'll

find it'll say who the hosts are. It's not like they're going to hide that from you on a post. So and then you can follow it from there and there's all sorts of links and you'll find this on there. That said, it's been a fucking adventure. And this is what I wanted for our 500th episode. No shortcuts. Something a little different.

Taking no shortcuts. That is our motto. We run the whole course. We run it all. 500 episodes worth and we're going to do another 500 all the way to the fucking finish line. Fuck the world,

fuck your mothers and fuck the Boston Marathon. Live from the Crime and Sports Studios. We will see you next week. Bye. Bye. on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself

by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.