Crime in Sports - #298 - Off To See The Wizard - The Crookedness of Ken Clay

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

This week, we look at a man who went from being a two time World Series champion, and the pride of his hometown, to being an embarrassment, to all concerned. His upbringing was one for the ages, complete with some things that not even we have heard about, before. His end in baseball came quickly, but his life of crime spans a good 20 years. Somehow, he thinks it's just fine to steal directly from his employers. He learns his lesson, then moves on to ripping off individuals, with some domestic disturbances, mixed in, including being stabbed by his wife, badly enough to have his stepson taken from them. An absolute mess!! Have one of the oddest origin stories of any athlete, celebrate a World Series win in your rookie season, and then show yourself to be a lying, scheming, scamming very bad man, with Ken Clay!! Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!!  Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail]  Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So here you're going to get this week. Remember when Tiger Woods got attacked by his wife at a golf club? I do. We're going to find out what the hell exactly. Because we heard all this and we heard all the Hooters waitresses and all these different porn stars. Porn stars. Tiger's whole insane life that nobody knew about yeah well he's doing buick commercials or whatever like this is the weirdest thing in the world so the curtain gets yanked and we see the whole thing

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That's eight ringers. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of that. And you're going to get a shout out at the end of the show. You bet. Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's get on with this. We have an amazing show for you today. Lastly, look, we're going to get into this

but listen if you don't uh if go to the website and get live tickets and if you if you don't believe that that we put together a very good live show get on twitter instagram anywhere and read what people are saying about we throw down seriously comics so proud of the shows that we're putting together absolutely this past weekend was incredible thank you pittsburgh and columbus you guys are awesome absolutely that was good shit there so let's do this let's um let's talk about our asshole of the week here um now he's a baseball player which we don't have they're spaced out the baseball players because they're just there's just not as many criminals in baseball i don't know it's just a calmer pace of game i guess but when they do it's really fun because

it's certainly self-sabotage absolutely yeah you didn't have to do this you haven't been hit in the head there's no reason for this it's not it's not like well how do you expect them to be violent on sunday and then nice on monday there's none of that shit yeah you there's a saying you have to hit calm like you can't you can't be angry and hit that's's the thing. The whole game of baseball is like this Zen center thing. And Steinbrenner liked them to be clean cut and pinstripes and no dirt. Wanted them clean and classy. How do you go from that to, well, I guess you force clean and classy on people, James. They're going to be grimy and gross.

That's just hair and facial hair. It doesn't mean who they are as a person. I mean, that's the thing. The uniform looks like an Italian gangster's outfit. It's just beautiful. It is. It is. I'll say that.

I don't care. I'm a lifelong Yankees fan, but I don't understand the... I don't understand the... No, no, no. The rules with the facial hair and the hair are a little much. They just got a guy I saw, a guy from, I think they just got him from the Mets, a pitcher, and he had a beard and these dreads and shit, and he looked cool as fuck. And now he looks like a dork now.

And I'm like, this poor bastard might make him pitch better because he's going to be less distracted by pussy, I'll tell you that much. Way less distracted by all the pussy that's going to be jumping all over him. So it's, you know, maybe it's good for the game. Who's the dork? Maybe that's going to be jumping all over him so it's you know maybe it's good for the game but maybe that's the the ploy here our guys will never get women from being attracted to johnny damon yeah i think that's what it is so anyway johnny damon needed to shave that was ridiculous that he looked like he was lost in the woods for six months this guy a little homeless this dude had like a cool like shape you know he just looked cool like he was lost in the woods for six months. This guy. A little homeless. This dude had like a cool like shape.

You know, he just looked cool. Like he looked like this was a sculpted style that, you know. He looked like a bass player. Yeah, cool as shit. He just looked cool. So anyway, let's get on with this with Kenneth Earl Clay. Ken Clay? Ken Clay.

Remember Ken Clay? Probably not. I do not. Because he's before both of our times really. Okay. But I know his name because of where he ended up playing and what he ended up doing but he um he just he's one of these guys he's like a baseball card in the wind he's just like you would find an old baseball card of

and be like who's this guy and look on the back and be like oh wow he okay yeah and like look at that and he just disappeared but he didn't disappear because he did plenty before and after his baseball career uh he's born april 6th 1954 so it's a nice little birthday episode for him pretty much here yeah and um this story of his childhood comes from his own book i don't know the title is at the end of my notes here somewhere. So I'll give you the title when I get to the end of it. But he wrote this book and it is a harrowing tale of some shit, basically, of how to get into the major leagues. His child life, when you hear his childhood, it makes sense of exactly, it reflects perfectly on his adulthood. Like you look at that and you go, oh, well, yeah, obviously that's going to lead to that sure but yeah it's just i don't know it's i'll i'll get into it right here um his father's older an older guy like his his father was born in like 1903 or something so his father was like 51 when he was born wow yeah so his dad was older which he was born in 54 so i

mean that's not that there's how many movie stars now have kids when they're 60 that's not a big deal but yeah yeah back in the 50s were younger than that when i was born though yeah i'm sorry i think mine were older but still really yeah mine were 42 when i was born wow that's yeah yeah that's uh that's a hey don't call me grandma age. That's an age where you're not allowed to call grandma grandma in public because she'll fucking smack you. Yeah, my grandparents were one year older than I am today. Jesus Christ, that's frightening, isn't it?

It is. It's really, it's something. It's certainly something. It makes for a weird, you can't get any farther away of understanding generations if your dad is 51 when you're born. Yeah. And especially in the 50s. So when he's six,

that's 1960, which the society's changing a lot in 1960. Yeah, there's cars in every driveway. Yeah, his dad was born on horseback you know what i mean like that's he was born in a covered wagon his dad's like i remember when we got plumbing like that was the greatest day ever boy i'll tell you what i remember i remember putting uh hay in the gas tank like yeah you had to go feed the car. You literally had to feed your tank. Yeah.

Feed him up. He's born in Lynchburg, Virginia. He's from Lynchburg, Virginia. And his father was in jail when he was born. So, yeah, he was born to not a single mother, but a mother with a dad away in jail at the time. Okay. Now, his dad, this is his obviously ken's story and the way i looked up i checked out a lot of things and this most of his story checks out there's a couple parts of it where i'm gonna go i don't know if i believe this and you you can make your own

judgments but okay you know we we let lex luger tell his bullshit tale about being the setting third grade records for pogo sticking or some shit, high jumping or pole vaulting or something. Yeah. Whatever he was doing. So we'll let him spew his bullshit, too, I guess. So his dad, during Prohibition, that's how old his dad is, by the way. His dad was in his 20s during Prohibition. Stunning.

So think about that shit. But his dad from, because like his dad's dad was a moonshiner. Yeah. And they were all like in this area too, like some of the backwoods people. Yeah, Virginia was huge for it. Hell yeah. Yeah, they knew how to make booze. So his dad being in his 20s and being at the time, I guess, kind of on the hip side of shit,

figured out to sell booze to people outside of this area and make a lot of money. Because you can sell a jug to the guy down the holler for five bucks, but you can sell it to some fucking guy from New Jersey to take back there for 20 bucks. You know what I'm saying? So that's a profitable business. This ischburg this is lynchburg yeah oh this is the epicenter of the yeah that's what i mean so you can't like this is a totally this would be like you know do you want to sell your cocaine in columbia or do you want to bring it to miami you know what i mean like it's that sort of thing so in doing that he started selling booze to people

from out of state who were taking big you know 18 wheelers of it out of you know giant truckloads of it out and train loads and train cars and shit yeah and then word gets back you know among people hey if you're back in new jersey or new york and this is what the hell are you getting because back then the booze they were getting wasn't all that great a lot of it was made in people's bathtubs and shit so word gets around quick when you have good booze yeah obviously so his dad ends up selling booze to some of the top mob figures of the time his dad's like their booze supplier wow so some of these big speakeasies in New York City that were like you really running big yeah even funneling this shit in absolutely even in chicago capone's places were buying from him too like that's how he was really pretty big he is to this like pablo

escobar is to studio 54 kind of yeah kind of like some illegitimate godfather of it like yeah not really related but they tapped you to stand there while you got some water poured on your forehead like like like the el chapo of the 20s kind of yeah but he's not the fucked up part is like he's not running the operation he's kind of a not a middle man but he's kind of like i guess a sales guy would be the best way to put it because like he's a local rep yeah because he's like he said he complains like his dad doesn't make a lot of he's not making a ton of money like they're they're not wealthy if he was like running the stills he would be wealthy but i guess he's kind of uh kind of stuck in a middle management position where he's not you know regional distribution

he's a yeah he's the he's the regional manager of the distribution center. That's not good. No. I mean, he gets some glory. Yeah. He gets to know these guys and hang out with them. He goes on deliveries sometimes, and he'll hang out at a couple of Al Capone's joints for a couple of nights and dance with the girls and find all these ladies and drink. The company picnic is exciting for him. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? The Mafia company picnic is exciting for him. Oh, my God.

Can you imagine? The mafia company picnic is the best. If you live through it, it's the best. As long as they didn't plan to kill you at it, you're going to have the best time ever. Sausage and peppers everywhere. It's delicious. So he actually, one thing he was very proud of,

because he had pictures with them together later on, he's proud of this uh ken is that he his dad was friends with jfk's dad so yeah because jfk's dad was a scumbag yeah his dad was a scumbag he was a he was a bootlegger everybody knew that i mean that's how he made his money was in booze and then like was an asshole about it like he wanted to well he went he went legit he did the yeah he did like the mike the michael corleone things kind of based on that part of it's kind of based on him the trying to turn legit thing was and there's other guys too but that was one of the guys they were thinking about when they wrote him was yeah but you can't turn legit and

then pretend that never happened he said i'm gonna be so legit i'm gonna put my kids in the army to fight nazis and then they're gonna be get injured you're gonna be a fucking war hero over there That never happened. He said, I'm going to be so legit, I'm going to put my kids in the army to fight Nazis, and then they're going to be, get injured. You're going to be a fucking war hero over there. You get back here, you're going to make us all look good. But that's the thing. That's America, though. America, one thing, if you're not from this country, just not saying it's good or bad

or indifferent or whatever, but if you make enough money and then you come to a state where your businesses at that moment are legitimate, you're a legitimate person. Doesn't matter how you got there. That's over with. You can parlay that into a picket fence. It's everything from these guys, from the mob guys, to fucking Master P running his record label. It doesn't matter from there to there. America loves a success story, and especially it's like a self-made,

had to dig from the muck success story. So they don't care how the fuck you got there. They go, oh, genius. Well, you're here now. Whereas traditionally in Europe, it doesn't matter what you have. It's how you got it. How you got there.

Yeah, whereas here that matters nothing at all. You could still have people's blood on your shoes. Right. As long as the case is closed and you're not up for indictment, it's fine. Masterpiece brothers in fucking prison for the rest of his life. I think both of them. Probably. Yeah.

I remember he was for a long time. I don't know if he's still there. I think C-Murder and Silk the Shocker are both in for life. Yeah. I don't know about Silk still being in there, but I remember murder that was like a life i think he was in for life right yeah yeah he murdered a fan yeah it's really tough to go into court with the name c murder and be like didn't do it listen i'm an upstanding citizen here's a picture of me and my daughter a dairy queen they're like okay c murder you chose that name sir i think c is his brother he may not be

he may be his cousin or something it doesn't matter yeah he's related i think though yeah pretty sure but silk i believe is definitely that's his brother that's definitely his brother i remember him and he's a nightmare too yeah not good he was like the tall skinny one right so yes i'm trying to think of a picture yeah i i remember his seas tall as fuck too yeah he had the dumbest looking album ever silk the shocker i remember it was a cheesy very cheesy with the electricity all over the place yeah like it was really a lot yeah yeah it was like it was him and raiden were teaming up for a fucking compilation track so um anyway dad, from the time he was younger in his 20s, prohibition, like we said, he's in and out of jail all through the prohibition because there's payoffs where you pay these people

off and then they have to bust you every once in a while. It's that sort of thing. So it's never any big deal. He always ends up getting out of it. He does a little bit of jail time here and there, but it's never enough to like slow him down or slow down the operation or even like get him a demotion. He still apparently stays in good favor with everybody knows all these mob guys. No, you know,

he's a very connected guy down here for a guy in Lynchburg. Right. I know. So I know that knows about the holler. Yeah. He's from the holler and he's he's like he knows all this shit so here's where it gets a little bit creepy um this is in uh the 40s so I think this is 1940 we're gonna go to now so we're talking world war ii is on the march you

know yeah about to get into it and all that shit ken's not born yet ken's not born he's not born for 14 more years uh so i'm sorry 1938 let's go to then because yeah he's okay so ken's mother bernice okay uh she is adopted when she was a she had no parents she was like an orphan and back then that was common because like sure who knows if her mom died in childbirth right that used to happen a lot and then the father already has a new family either that or he's like i already have two mouths to feed i can't take care of a baby and they just give it away to a you know a nunnery and they just you know fucking give the kid away in adoption back then so there's a lot of adopted kids like that back then and a lot of orphans so she is adopted when she's 14 um and um how do we say this by ken's father okay so ken adopted his bride future bride when she was 14. Yikes.

Okay. Reason being, the reason why he didn't go shopping for it, but he ended up with her, was his friend, who was one of his business cohorts, was found hung upside down with his throat cut from a tree in the woods. Yeah. So he needed a daughter so that people wouldn't fuck with him because he's got a mouth to feed no no his friend died and that was his daughter so oh his daughter was her dad that was her dad so his daughter was an orphan so he adopted her which everybody said was such a nice thing and they were like oh what a nice man he's a you know meanwhile he's a single a single you know dude in his 30s.

He's like, I'll take on that 14-year-old girl. Bring her over to my house. Right there is a red flag. She's going to end up pregnant. And she did. Well, two years later, Ken's mom is pregnant. Oh, my. At 16.

So she gets married to Ken's father. What a story. Ken's father married his daughter gross what the fuck is going on woody allen what's happening now all of this i assume is true because no one would say this about their own family unless it was no it's probably worse you know what i mean yeah it probably he probably hung that guy upside down and slit his throat that's gonna say he probably kidnapped the girl and just kept her it probably wasn't even like any sort of like nice guy adoption thing even even at the outset he broke into the house slit the guy's throat hung him from a tree and took his daughter over his over his shoulder like a caveman i mean, is murder worse than what he's doing?

I don't know. I don't know. I think murder to get to this is worse probably. That's grosser. It's like, wow, you really want it that bad. You'll kill for it. It's one thing if it's like, hey, if it falls in my lap, I'll be a disgusting, awful monster person.

Stepfather, yeah. But instead, he's like out there like hmm creating the stepfather situation yeah yeah so i like i said we'll believe ken and say that this was a totally you know he was this man was his dad was heartbroken about his friend dying and decided to take his daughter and and then somehow um you know they whatever got together, mutually fell in love one way or another, hopefully. Yeah. Which, no, that would be. And we understand that is absolutely humanly and legally impossible to do.

In Virginia, this is probably legal back then. Yeah. She was 16 when they got married. So, I mean, that was you get married at 16 back then. Her parents were dead. So nobody to sign the papers he's the legal guardian hey look at that sign your own sign your marriage certificate as the father there we go i give her permission and i do all right i do and she does i do and uh according to me as her legal guardian, so does she. All right. Un-fucking-believable. Wow.

So, that's absolutely bonkers. Unbelievable. I can't imagine that situation being real. His mom's born in 1938, and then he's born in 1954. That's what I mean. He's got to be full of shit on that, right? That has to be more nefarious than even that. Although that's so gross. I guess if you're

admitting that much, maybe it's, I don't know, whatever. Maybe that's all there is. Maybe he's just like, I'm laying it all out there. I don't give a shit who knows it. Because I think his parents are dead by the time he writes the books and he's an only child. So he doesn't give a shit. For Virginia, that's about as

Jack and Diane's it gets that's a for 19th for depression era lynchburg that might be yeah i'm not sure i think they're probably a little better on it now but not then so when ken was born like i said his father was in prison his father wasn't not for banging his adopted daughter mind you that would be what you'd hope he's in prison for but instead he this is again i don't know how this could be worse so this must be true it's one of those things i can't imagine anything worse his father was arrested and convicted for burning down a church okay why would he do that? Not for any theoretical or theological or political or racial, none of that shit.

The local church apparently had been giving his little crew a cut of their tithings. Really? Yes, they've been giving them a cut of their tithings as like protection money. They were running protection rackets. He learned from the mob guys how to do this. And he's shaking down local businesses, including the church, the church. And they didn't pay.

Well, they got a new guy died that he was always dealt with since the 30s. The guy died. So they got a new guy. I wasn't having it. He wasn't having it. So he burned the fucking church down. And they told on him that they'd been, you know, he'd been trying to shake him down for the last however long and so anyway he ends up going to prison for that so now he's born to a wow to like a basically a single mother who's

had her adopted disgustingly old father's baby yeah and who's a church burner like it's really church flamer church flame he's a flamer he's a church flamer she's a 30 year old child bride is what she is absolutely yeah she's this is crazy that's what's happening at this well she's not even what she's she's 16 at this point so oh yeah she's only 16 she's still a teenager wait she was 16 when he was born yeah she's 16 when he's born oh my yeah she was born in 38 they got married in 50 or she they he adopted her in 52 when she was 14 56 dear god or 54 they have ken she's 16 they get married yeah she goes from daughter to wife overnight wait was she adopted in 38 by him? No, no, she was born in 38.

Did I say it? Okay. She was born in 38. So she was a tiny little baby when... Her father died in 52. She's born in 38. Her father died in 52. She's 14.

Got it. Okay. He adopts her in 52. Two years later, he marries her. Ken's born in 54. So adopts her in 52. Two years later, he marries her. Ken's born. Unreal. In 54. So it's pretty fucked up. Now, okay.

All of this, like I said, all of that is so disgusting and assorted that it can only be either real or worse, basically, from Ken's book. This is the part I don't believe. And it's the most innocuous. It's so doesn't matter but i don't believe this part because this is the part where i feel like he's trying to make himself some sort of like aw shucks kind of guy all right yeah this is what an editor would do or a ghost writer on a book would be like we need to build a legend here you know we need to build something so ken's mother at 16 um she had a first of all had a pretty difficult uh childbirth with him as well so after recovering from this and having no help also she has no help he's in jail her family is

not around obviously her father's been hung from a tree and had a throat slit so not a lot of help 50 her husband's in his 50s and in fucking jail so not great no so she ended up there there's a peanut farm around there she got a job in the office and the peanut she worked in like a trailer thing basically doing paperwork for the peanut farm yeah by the way peanuts are virginia's largest agricultural export did you know that is that right absolutely peanuts and tobacco is what you get there okay so yeah she works there now he says when he's like you know he grows he hangs out with mom at work and would throw this is what sounds like such bullshit and i don't believe him for a second he would throw the

peanuts at milk jugs okay like sid finch style but not a hundred miles an hour he would just practice trying to hit him with milk jugs like playing a game Sid Finch style, but not a hundred miles an hour. He would just practice trying to hit him with milk jugs, like playing a game as a kid. In the shell. Yeah. In the shell. But he was doing it so much that, you know,

he was getting good aim after years. You know what I mean? This, I don't buy this for a fucking second, Ken. Peanut hurling turned him into an MLB starter. MLB starter. This is what I mean.

And he said that, um, his, uh, his dad gets out of jail when he's seven. And his mom leaves the farm because his dad's like, my wife's not working on a peanut farm. Look, that goes against my pride as a church burning child molester. I have standards.

Yeah. So, yeah. I'm not less of a man my no wife of mine will have to work no wife of mine's gonna be working so anyway uh his dad because he said he liked to go he wanted to go to the peanut farm to throw peanuts still that's what but his mom didn't work there anymore so his dad said what are you talking about i'll get you a ball what are you fucking what are you dense like what did you get enough oxygen at birth son like what's wrong with you and ken because he's been at the peanut farm and stuff he hasn't really seen a whole lot of baseball so he just knows he likes to throw things he didn't really understand that you like there's guys that do that and that's job. He just thought throwing shit was fun.

Peanut heartling milk cans? I can make money from that? Yeah. Well, he didn't know money, but they said they just signed him up for Little League, and were like, here, go there. Here's a ball. You like to throw shit. Tell that guy you like to throw things, and he'll have you throwing things.

No more peanuts. Yeah, he does that. They signed him up for Little League. Now, this, he's amazing in Little League right away. He is. Really? I found from 1962, so he's eight years old, and it's a little town paper, and they have all the local results of everything. But he made the paper.

He made the paper because he threw two straight no-hitters on back-to-back days. He threw a Saturday and a Sunday no-hitter at eight years old. Incredible. I mean, they're six innings apiece. He's not Roger Clemens over here, but, you know, it's pretty goddamn good. I wonder how many Roger Clemens threw as an eight-year-old. Probably not as many.

He's already five more to Nolan Ryan. He's almost there. He's closing in. The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that. Bing!

The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face. I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave her alone.

Okay, so, um... This is not a so. This is a period. Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor. You married his cousin. His brother. That's not him. Yes, ma'am. I would make a beeline for the door.

The Emmy Awardwinning series returns. How did I know that? I have a crystal ball in my head. It's an all-new season. It's streaming, you can say anything. Judy Justice, only on Freebie. Taylor Swift is soaring high, her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans. She's broken billboard records and made Grammys history, not to mention becoming a billionaire in the process. But along the way, Taylor has had to wage war, first by taking on a very powerful, very famous manager, Scooter Braun, and then by going up against the biggest live events company, Ticketmaster. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondery Show Business Wars. We go deep into some

of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time. And in our latest season, Taylor Swift will shake up not only the music business, but Hollywood and the NFL. Follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. So right away, he's a great pitcher. So whether that's from Peanuts or it's just because he's a good fucking natural good athlete.

And he ends up being a big guy. He's like 6'3 and a half, 200 pounds. He's a big strapping dude who can throw a baseball. He might just have physical attributes and he's, you know, tryingpping dude who can throw a baseball so lucky bastard he might just have physical attributes and he's you know trying to make himself be more humble or whatever so he goes to high school he plays for the ec ec like the initials ec e dot c dot glass hilltoppers that's the school mascot so it's ec glass and uh it's in lynchburg and i found a

a bunch of articles he lettered in five sports really i don't know how what fucking five sports can you even play simultaneously i guess tracks i know he plays i know he plays baseball and basketball because i found clippings of him. Does he get soccer too, I guess? Maybe soccer and track and field is probably. I wonder if they do track and field as separate events. I don't know. He does shot put and the relay. So maybe that's, I don't know.

Maybe that's it. Basketball, maybe football. He's a big guy. I don't know why he wouldn't play football. Probably too. So either way, I found him here. Here's one article from 1970. So he's 16 years old where it said, quote, this is from Portsmouth, quote, handcuffed for six and two third innings on the two hit pitching of Kenny Clay. in the bottom of the seventh, but fell one run short as E.C. Glass of Lynchburg registered a 4-3 decision over the Chiefs in the Virginia State High School 1A baseball semifinals.

So there you go. He walked 11 batters that day, but he didn't allow a hit until the fourth inning. So I was reading about it. Nobody hit it into the outfield. Only two guys hit it into the outfield. The guy who got a base hit and somebody popped up to short left field. He's very good, huh?

Well, he throws a hard – he's got a fastball in the mid-90s and a hard sinker. So a lot of ground balls is what he gets, which isn't what you want. It's going to throw a few pitches. Yeah, it's good stuff and very few pitches. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. And very few home runs. It's good for him. So, um, then there's a different game here where he drove in the winning run to give himself a win in like a, you know, two hit pitching outing. So he's hitting and pitching.

Um, I found one for basketball here where it said he had, let's see here that the picture is some guy, the picture is some black dude doing a layup on him, and he's getting posterized in the local paper at 16. But it says he averages 10.1 points a game. That's pretty decent. Pretty decent. So he's doing well in high school sports, lettering in five. He's thriving for a kid who came from a weird environment he's right you know

i guess sometimes sports i think will can you can put yourself into that as a kid and almost almost kind of keeps you push your home away yeah the whole plan of it is to quote unquote keep the kid out of trouble and keep his head focused on something but if you have a natural talent for it it can do much more for you if you play three sports at the same time you're like i got practice at 3 35 30 and 7 30 not a lot of not a lot of trouble you can get into you're going to be exhausted by 9 30 you're going to home you're going to bed you're going to eat some food and go to bed and that's it yeah so now back to his father okay now his father's getting up there in age His father's about 70 years old at this point.

Wow. You know, almost. He's late 60s. Hard living. His dad has still been illegitimate this whole time. But, like, he took it down a huge notch. He's doing, like, small things. There's one I know where he gets arrested for, like, a stolen electronics thing.

There's, like, a bunch of TVs or some kind of electronic components that were stolen in the 60s. And he was trying to sell them. Some FBI got involved and whatever. So I don't know if that's the thing that got him in trouble. I don't know if he talked or what. But the guys he was working with, the mob guys, were apparently upset with him over this. Him getting in trouble. In his 70s?

Well, they think of him, and this happens all the time. Any mob book you read, whenever somebody gets busted and they're 68, they're like, we got to kill him now. No one's going to prison when they're 70. They want to be comfortable when they're 70. Like, your honor and all that bullshit. They're like, I got like 10 years left and I'd like to spend it on the street fuck these guys that's bottom line so that's what ends up happening he runs afoul there's a guy who ended up during this time like in the 60s and 70s mob guys started going down to florida a lot because it was wide open territory none None of the families owned it.

It was considered a lot of parking meters, a lot of a lot of things to do down there. Well, you could rob and steal blind. And it was no in New York that you can only do it in a certain area. If you're you know, if you're the union family, you can't go hijack this person, these people's trucks because they belong to that guy. And it's all in Florida. You could do anything you want. So they started guys started going around the South. Atlanta started getting a few of them.

And there was a couple guys that came to Virginia. I don't know if it was through his dad or what. But one of the guys who's actually a mob guy that I've read about in a different book, his name is Pete Provolango. You ever heard of him? No. No? I think he was a Genovese guy he's

not pistol pete he'll come up in this episode by the way really yeah pistola pete comes up in this episode and so does this guy though and so does rusty uh rusty what's his name fucking um uh i don't know shit we'll get to it anyway so he uh Provolongo, he was a guy who got busted in New York and then he moved down here. And I know this last arrest was for wire fraud, mail fraud, and fraud fraud. And it was some kind of swindle having to do with some kind of unionization where they pretended to unionize auto shop workers but never did it and just took all their fucking dues and took off. So they just robbed a bunch of auto shop workers. Just took all the money from the union hall and just skated. Just took everything and took off.

Never even set it up. So then the auto guys were in trouble with their bosses who then fired them because they wasn't there was no actual union wanted union representation there's nothing to do and they gave all their money to get it all set up so fuck that's yeah he so this fucking any this this provolongo guy ken's dad thinks that the mob guy is going to kill him so he won't rat because he knows how the fucking game is played ken's dad thinks that the mob guy is going to kill him so he won't rat because he knows how the fucking game is played ken's dad so he says i'm taking off good luck with your fucking finals i gotta get out of here pitch hard kid i'm going on the lamb and he tells us he tells ken that he's going there's like a hunting cabin that he knows of he's like i'm going to the cabin i'm taking my shotguns and if they come for me they come for me and i lived a long place i lived a long life and i'm taking a couple of them with you with me so you know have a good one basically

so um anyway about uh between six months and a year go by from what ken says and his dad never came back oh no so he's still gone they don't hear from it so the cops through this they were looking into his dad but now they can't find his dad so now they're looking into provolongo as like why is his dad missing so now they're thinking maybe provolongo had something to do with him going missing anyway this all makes sense in a second here so he uh um they're looking for him so after a baseball game ken said he pitched a baseball game where he threw a two hitter he says and he lost one to nothing oh that's a brutal day imagine that oh god fuck i gave up one you guys one you can't get one and take it to extras or something what are you fucking people can't cross the plate scumbags dude it's fucking crazy so

yeah he he does that i'd be so fucking mad about that especially in high school yeah so anyway he gets home he's dropped off at home by a friend yep and he's sitting around and he said two guys pull up in front of his house in a car and get out and he walks up to them because they ask him for directions and he's like oh yeah if you go here there he's got his uniform on and everything and he said next thing you know he feels a shot in the back of his head and he wakes up and he's out cold and he would shot him no they didn't shoot him they hit him in the back of the head somebody fucking knocked him in the back of the head he felt like a shot in the back of like pow okay yeah he said he remembers seeing

the ground coming up like toward his face yeah and he landed in his front yard and he said he woke up uh still in his baseball uniform with his cleats on and everything tied to a chair. Oh, no. Yeah. So he's like, where am I? What's going on? He said he could remember his feet. He was tapping his feet like in nervousness because that's the only part he could move was his like ankles.

And he said he kept tapping his feet and the cleats were like on the ground and kept pissing the guys off. and the cleats were like on the ground and kept pissing the guys off. So they want to know where his dad is because now, rather than his dad having to disappear, they need his dad to show up because they'd rather go down for fraud than murder. So they're like, fuck, this is a, you know, it's one of those things. So this is a threat, I would say. Ken's 17 years old at this point yeah they ken's a righty you know throws in the mid 90s they threaten to cut his right arm off if they don't

if he doesn't help find his if he doesn't produce his father show up we're taking your arm instead your right arm and we're gonna fucking you know the good one yeah can you throw left-handed and they said if that doesn't work they'll kill his mom how's that so then you'll be good one yeah can you throw left-handed and they said if that doesn't work they'll kill his mom how's that so then you'll be a one-armed guy with no mom either or dad how do you like that but if my dad's dead and my mom's dead that's two murders exactly but i guess you're trying to scare a 17 year old and he said it worked yeah it worked uh But then a month later, unexpectedly for Ken, he gets a miracle. The 1972 Major League Baseball draft comes along. He has no idea that people are even looking at him.

None. He doesn't even know that they know he exists. He has no clue that Major League Baseball knows he exists. He's talking about maybe I can go to junior college and keep playing because I i like to play shit like that well we'll talk about this draft number one overall 1972 major league draft jimmy oh you don't know that i know this yeah you didn't know i knew this you do do you randy johnson absolutely no it is dave roberts i would have had no. I mean, if you just said two random ass common names, I probably could have gotten there in 10 guesses. That's, yeah, Dave Roberts. Next up, Rick Manning.

You could have put those together eventually. I could have handled this. Larry Christensen. You could have got him, I think, on there. Obviously. This first round, I got to be honest, until you get to number 22 overall, Ch chet lemon who played for the tigers and had one of the sweetest afros known to man uh chet chet had a kind afro dude it was awesome chet was the shit i love chet lemon man i've been looking for a chet lemon jersey to wear to detroit actually

and i can't fucking find one how detroit how do you not have chet lemon jerseys everywhere you have lou Whitaker. That's fine. I'll take Sweet Lou, but I want Chet Lemon, damn it. Or at least Chet Lemon afros for sale. Oh, something. I want the Chet Lemon jersey. So he's number 22 overall.

Go to the second round. Let's see here. Number 38 overall in the second round, because back then there's a lot less teams. The New York fucking Yankees, newly bought by George Steinbrenner. Wow. He's in the process, I believe, of buying them right now from CBS. Select Ken Clay. What?

He was like, pardon? I got what now? Drafted? Holy shit. He was more likely to be drafted into the fucking army than the yankees put it that way like that's in his mind it's 72 do you think it's the he's mafia related based on his father do you think they had anything to do with getting him drafted no that's that's you will hear we absolutely know not for a second here but no it's george steinbrenner he's a

cleveland shipbuilder he doesn't fucking care about those guys. He has no idea who those guys are. So they pick him. Bob Knepper is picked a little after him, who's a pitcher for a long, long time. Number 50 overall, Dennis Eckersley. No shit. He was a Hall of fucking Famer. So the Yankees could have picked Dennis Eckersley.

Instead, they chose Ken Clay. He was drafted that long ago? That long. Yeah, he was a big starter in the 70s. He wasn't a reliever. When we were kids, he was like this weird old man reliever, but he was a starter for years. I didn't realize he'd been in the league for 20 fucking years by the time I'd seen him. Yeah, neither did I.

That's amazing. Until you look at his baseball card, and you're like, holy shit. Also, John Candelaria picked 47th overall. No kidding. The Candyman, longtime good pitcher. And again, another guy. So Knepper, Candelaria, and Eckersley, three longtime good pitchers. And they picked Ken Clay rather than those three.

So good job, Yankees. Gary Carter taken in the third round, the catcher. Wow. And then seventh round, Willie Randolph taken. A lot of guys that were playing for a long, long time. Well, it takes five years or so to get to the majors. Yeah, I guess so. When you see a guy coming up, he was drafted.

Back then, they drafted most of the guys out of high school. College draft, they didn't really do that until Moneyball made that real popular. Otherwise, it was no fucking idea high school now uh he still got the whole you know mob wants to cut my arm off and kill my mom thing hanging over his head and he's going to mob gangland like he's going yeah the disneyland of the mob holy shit but lucky for him turns out old pd provolongo here above everything else the mafia honor chicken parmesan above everything he loves the yankees he's a gigantic kill a yankee he's a gigantic yankee fan has a room in his house with newspaper clippings of games from that he remembers from when he was a kid like he's a fucking like a super freak yankee fan the draft of who god damn it so he completely

changes his tune now it's ken i'm gonna cut your arm off now it's my buddy gets the kid right here with the rocking arm he's now he's like i practically raised him he's fucking acting like he's his best friend he offers to represent him as an agent wow i'll represent these fucking guys they push you around you need somebody on your fucking side they're gonna fuck you in the ass blah blah blah cut it off i was just kidding i want to get a massage oh i'm gonna i was gonna cut it off massage it and have it put back on what are we still what are we talking about here? I was going to give you a better one. That's all. So then he's a Yankee. Oh, his book here.

This is all from his book, Ken's book, which his title makes sense later on because what he does is a kind of a bad life after this. He's a kind of a shitty person, as you can understand. This is all from his book, a kinder existence by ken clay crazy isn't it yeah yeah that would be much crazier if any of it was true i gotta say if any of that shit besides him pitching in high school and lettering in five sports is true his dad's not a molester no i don't know who his dad is don't know who his mom is don't know any of his background because it's not available we just made up so many monsters they don't exist who cares and his book is finding a kinder existence

it's not real finding a kinder existence what do those letters add up to? I don't know. Faking? What is it? F-A-K-E. Fake. Finding a kinder existence. You son of a bitch. I was waiting for why that was fucking interesting.

I'm like, okay. So he's looking to be better. Exactly. Oh, God. Okay. I had to i had god damn and his book is fake his book is fake his god damn his crimes later are insane but there's nothing else about his life so i had to pad something with some funny shit and so it's a comedy bootlegging and murder and child molestation shucking and b-bomb I'm sorry about you. You know what? I'm not sorry.

You probably laughed, if nothing else, at that crazy story. If you're upset, take away the last minute of the show and pretend it was real. What's the difference? What do you care? Who cares? Either way, it's fine. You know, the other day I was just thinking about how much I missed that one guy's brother who got eaten by a bear.

Yuri. Was it Yuri? Or Yuru. Yuru. Yeah. Yuru was his brother. That's who I was missing. Poor little Yuru.

He was attacked by the bear. We barely knew him. We barely knew you. He tried valiantly to save his brother. He really did. He really did. Beat him with a hockey stick. He beat him hard with a hockey stick.

So, you know. This guy had it even tougher, though. He had a... Sure did. Beat him with a hockey stick. He beat him hard with a hockey stick. So, you know. This guy had it even tougher, though. He had a... Sure did. At least that guy's father wasn't a molesting fraudster. So, you know. Possibly killing his own friends, hanging them upside down. Absolutely.

And Pete Provolongo sounded real as fuck, didn't he? He's a good dude, that Pete. Non-existent person. None of those people exist. The only things that were real were his sports stuff. A good dude, that Pete. A non-existent person. None of those people exist. The only things that were real were his sports stuff. Just he went to high school. So I lettered him five things and he played in those couple games I told you about.

That's all I could find about his younger life. Why do we bother with real stories when fake ones are so much better? It could be anything at that point. I mean, shit. You want me to tell you a tale i'll tell you something fuck it i'll make something up sorry sorry so he's who's he drafted by is the yankees that's true yeah the draft part was true the sports stuff was true he's drafted by the yankees it's just there's no Pete Provolongo, and he doesn't care about him. Nobody cares about the Yankees.

He's just very excited to be drafted by the Yankees because, you know, Mickey Mantle played there. That's all. He's just jacked up. Right. He grew up in Virginia, though? He grew up in Lynchburg. He went to E.C. Glass High School.

He lettered him five sports. He pitched really well. The rest of it, who fucking knows? Who knows that's i mean they had nothing else on his life so i'm like nothing not even a you know anything not a drop of color to add to the fucking no i gotta have something here so it grew i get stoned and it grows what do you want nothing makes me happy i know you enjoy this. It's been a while. It's been a while.

Was Dennis Eckersley drafted in 75? No, 72. 72. Just like him. Holy shit. The draft was real. All the sports part was real. All his personal life wasn't real.

20 years of that guy's career. I missed all of it. Who's this old fart with his mullet? That great mustache. Yeah. Cut your mullet, great mustache yeah cut your mullet dennis it's 94 he pitched to like 96 or some shit he played till eckersley played forever oh longer than that 96 97 something he was kicking around with different teams so anyway our guy here ken clay uh he he plays for uh they send him to the rookie Appalachian League for Johnson City.

You don't understand how fucked my memory is, though. So the rest of this show, I'm going to be calling back all kinds of shit that didn't happen. Good. This is why I can't remember anything, because there are people like, remember that show that this happened? And I'm like, I don't know that it happened. I don't know. Is that real? I don't know. This is real? I don't know. This is only the third time I've made anything up.

On this one. Then we got the cheese murders. That was once. So that's once in 270 episodes on the other show. Wasn't there two in there, though? There was something about rats or something? I don't know. But the cheese murders were the main one.

Either way, that's out of 270 episodes. It was a three-minute bit, and I told you exactly when it was over. Now it's all fake. Crime and Sports this is episode 298 so that is our third time in 300 episodes. So you never know. Either way, enjoy the ride

and if it's fake, I'll tell you. That's all. The fake ones are the best ones. I'll never not tell you if something's fake. Put it that way. there you go yeah i'll never rat on myself i'll always rat on myself always yeah i'll never not never not so uh anyway the rest of it real from now on out no no no bullshit i swear to god so um he starts 13 games for Johnson City, Tennessee down there. Four complete games, 91 innings pitched, which is damn good, not bad at all. He's got 66 strikeouts, 53 walks. Pretty good for a rookie that's 18 years old.

So the next year they move him up to Fort Lauderdale, which is regular A ball. He goes 10-10 that year, 24 24 starts and 11 complete games and 24 starts sir seeing what he's got uh like he's playing for his life james like he's playing for his arm he's playing to keep his fucking arm 158 innings pitched which is a lot for a kid that age 97 strikeouts 80 walks so pretty good again uh in fort lauderdale that year here's an article from the newspaper 100 real uh fort lauderdale's ken clay flirted with baseball immortality last night but wound up a mere mortal clay a gangling right hander jesus thanks one sentence i'm immortal the next sentence i'm gangling thanks a lot nobody's ever been described as that and was handsome you know he is too he's not a bad

looking guy especially when he's young that just means say that word like he's just repulsively skinny and spaghetti armed yeah yeah yeah like he's like a cartoon like flinging him back and forth uh hurled eight innings of no hit ball but had to settle for a two hitter and a four nothing florida state league win over the tampa tarpons at al lopez field some uh the left fielder broke up clay's bid for a no hitter by slamming a single to left field so there you go but you're talking about a win who gives a shit yeah and he's what we're after eight no hit innings is pretty good. It's solid.

That gets you some attention there. The next year he goes up to West Haven, which is AA. And this league here on West Haven Yankees, AA, it's in the Eastern League. It's in Connecticut. They go 58-79. Ron Guidry's on his team. No kidding. Left-hander. Yeah. Louisiana Lightning himself79. Ron Guidry's on his team. No kidding. Louisiana Lightning himself there.

Ron Guidry. He is on his team. They come up together. Him and Guidry. Guidry is the fireball throwing lefty. Man, he was fucking good. So anyway, that year let's see who else is on there. So that year with West Haven, he pitches

in the year before he had a.228 ERA in Fort Lauderdale. This year his ERA is.488. Uh-oh. Five wins, 13 losses,.488 ERA. 31 games, he starts 21 of those. They try him out in the bullpen a little bit too. And he's walking a lot of guys too. 99 strikeouts 77 walks would he

lose control no last year he had 80 walks it's just his he's control is a problem through his whole career walks are a problem for him and that's one thing they hate from young pitchers is walks if you if you're throwing walks you better be throwing 105 miles an hour because they don't like that shit at all especially now so So back then they put up with it a little bit more. The next year, 75, they move him up to Syracuse, AAA at that point. And he has a 6 ERA up there for a little while in 75. 76, though, he plays for Syracuse. He's in AAA.

And he's 11 and 8 with a 413 ERA, which is pretty good. Getting better. Getting better. 87 strikeouts, 67 walks, so he brought it down a little bit there. Trying to figure it out. Yep. 77, though, is when he kind of catches fire for Syracuse. He starts all 10 games he plays in and has a 168 ERA.

Great. Problem is, 32 strikeouts, 33 walks. That's not good. That's not great. You want it to be like 3-1 strikeouts to walks at least, 4-1 if it's really good. You've got 1-1 here. That's not good at all.

1-1 is terrible. So not wonderful, but he's throwing heat, and he's not giving up any runs because he pitches a lot of ground ball. So he's the type of guy that walks a guy but then gets the next guy to hit it in a double play because he gets him to ground it right the second hard with a hard sinker. Zeros it up. Yeah, he's the type of guy that's set up to give up walks and be okay. Some guys can't.

If you're like a high fastball guy and you're giving up walks, you're fucked. You're going to end up giving up a lot of three-run homers. You're the guy giving up a shitload of three-run shots you're gonna serve up walk-offs a lot an awful lot god damn it so um anyway yeah he does so well that they're gonna end up bringing him up to the club this year in the middle of the season also in 1977 right in the middle of the season there's a big controversy over the baseballs what do you mean remember in the 90s everyone was like the balls fucking juiced man the balls livelier remember that i don't in the 90s that was the big thing when everyone was hitting those home runs rather than just the obvious of everybody's on massive amounts of

steroids there was huge controversies about the lively ball the major league baseball had them insert a different core to the ball so it flies farther and it's livelier because they want more runs that was the big or the batter's the cheater you know yeah well the guy swinging the bats 260 pounds of acne all over his back and veins popping out of his forearms and they're like the ball's juiced man it's like's like, no, that guy's on deck to his asshole. What are you talking about? And there's a bunch of cork in that bat. Yeah.

Yeah, if you're Sammy Sosa, it's both. It's fucking both. So this happens every once in a while. Whenever there's any sort of offensive uptick pre-steroids, they would go, it's the balls. They're juicing the balls. That was a big thing. So in the late 60s was like a historic low in batting. Like nobody could hit.

I think in 1969 or 68, maybe it was 67, one of those three years because it was the year before they lowered the mound. Only one guy in both leagues hit 300. And it was Yastrzemski and he hit like 301 or something so it was like carl offense was on was at the bottom so they lowered the pitching mound and then offense picked back up yeah because that's the most boring fucking outing of my life yeah i want to come sit there and watch a guy play catch it's one thing when sandy koufax is shutting you out or Bob Gibson is, but when some mediocre fourth starter is doing it because he's so high up on the mound, it's a different story. So they had a big thing in the 70s because offense picked up.

So they started, you know, guys like George Foster were hitting a lot of home runs. Reggie Jackson was hitting a lot of homers. So these were just a different kind of athlete, too. They were big, strong guys. Don't make me sit and watch todd stottlemeyer play catch yeah yeah which fucking like when reggie jackson's hitting home runs you can say it's not the ball he swings as hard as he possibly can to the point of falling down and will either strike out or hit a home run so that's not the ball it's just no one has taken a cut like that ever like that's a crazy cut to taking a ball yeah so anyway they have this whole thing expensive tests of current baseballs being used in the major leagues have shown them to be

within authorized league specifications they say the results of the battery of laboratory tests which were conducted at the University of Missouri. What? Yeah, this is why it's in here. This is so funny. Were announced jointly by Lee McPhail, president of the American League, and the National League president, Chubb Feeney. Which sounds like a porn star. Chubb Feeney.

I'm always Chubb'd. The tests were ordered after suspicions that the current balls are livelier than those used in previous years. Manufacturer of Major League Balls was turned over to the Rawlings Sporting Goods Company this year in a switch from Spalding, which had previously held the contract. of the people who was doing this professor of mathematics dr max engelhardt associate professor of mathematics dr terry f lenhoff and associate director of the mechanical and aerospace engineering programs conducted the tests over a nine-day period nine days of them juggling nine days of people who are way we need are smart people. We need their brain power to do different things than this. This is not important. And we got them unraveling balls to see if they're all the same

and whether or not their makeup makes them bounce more. Baseballs were shot from an air cannon against a solid board constructed of ash baseball bat planks, and velocity was measured by radar guns. They were seeing how the different bounces from the different balls off the bat planks, and velocity was measured by radar guns. They were seeing how the different bounces from the different balls off the different planks. This is the 70s. We got unsolved murders, you guys.

Yeah, Ted Bundy is currently on the loose. I think he's escaped from jail at that point, and he's literally walking around right now. We could use you guys deducing who's doing all this bad shit in the country. Gacy has children under his house right now. At this moment. At this moment.

Undug graves. And we have scientists spending nine days examining baseballs and then coming up with, nope, they're fine. Nope, they're all right. Ed Kemper has girls' heads in suitcases, you guys. We came up with George Foster's just strong and swings hard. That's what we came up with. He's just strong and swings hard. That's what we came up with. He's pretty good. He's pretty good. You know, that's all we got. Commence the killing,

fellas. Yeah. Reggie takes big cuts at that ball. So there you go. Wow. If you don't know when Crystal Pepsi was discontinued, what was in Al Capone's vault, or which famous meteorologist is Lenny Kravitz's second cousin, then you haven't spent enough time on Wikipedia. But that's okay. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole, from Smartless Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you'd learn that that's the sciency term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink roller

coaster as we start out on a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here follow wiki hole on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to wiki hole ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts so 1977 yankees this is a kind of a historic team you can watch there's documentaries about it there's movies that always have this in the background whether it be summer of sam or anything with this around the son of sam they mix the yankees in because it was that time it was that summer so uh 77 162 the yankees go so

100 wins 62 losses that's the most wins right no not one no it's not no um billy martin is the manager of that year we know fiery crazy billy martin is the manager of that year we know fiery crazy billy martin who plucked her on the floor out of a prison and stuck him in center field and we'll do an episode on billy one day too because he's a crazy motherfucker i love him but we'll tear him apart because you know who cares he did he did what he did so uh anyway this year they go 162 this team thurman munman Munson, Chris Chambliss, Willie Randolph, Bucky Dent. That broke the Red Sox heart. Greg Nettles, Roy White, Mickey Rivers, Reggie Jackson.

Lou Piniella's on this team on the bench, for Christ's sake. And he's a great player. Dave Kingman. A lot of guys on this team. Fucking Catfish Hunter. Doc Ellis is on this team. They're stacked. So anyway, they go to the

playoffs that year they beat kansas city three to two that season and then uh the next they go to the world series for to play the dodgers and they win four to two in that one sure do i have that set of dvds there's a set they sold like 10 years ago all these different world series dvds of each game it's like the original broadcasts what are those like fucking amazing uh i think like the camera oh it's so wild it's so cool game two i think there is just a giant half the bronx is on fire outside the stadium and you can just see oh plumes of smoke because it's the late 70s in the in the bronx and howard cosell's like well the bronx is burning that's where that came from because he said it on tv

the bronx is burning and you could they showed a fucking camera shot of it like all this fire game for you tonight the bronx is burning but mickey rivers leads off the first let's go yankees okay those those cameras were so wild to watch like the and watching that documentary that that uh a year in the life of crime they have the same it's that same time period camera where like when the camera moves over light like the fucking squiggles and shit oh yeah you get the lights from the yeah the light from the from the state yes yeah light in the stadium is so awesome it's fucking cool and the first two games were in new y, and it's dark, and there's a fire, and it's all this cool shit. And then game three, they cut to L.A., and it's at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, and it's bright, and the sky is blue, and everything looks bright and blue.

It's so weird to go to that from there. It's so strange. Night game to day game. weird to go to that from there it's so strange night game today game anyway this goes six games and uh this is the famous uh you know this it's all famous these two series here 77 78 so anyway this year um during the season he has some tough luck ken he's uh the team was tied for first place in the american league east and uh will eventually win the the division over the red sox and orioles but they bring him in as a starter at first oh that doesn't work out he goes oh and two with a 773 era as a starter yikes not good so they moved him to the

bullpen and that he was good two and one with a 340 era ERA and one save. So that's really, really good. And they had Sparky Lyle then, who was their ace closer. So that was just like if Sparky had pitched a few games in a row, they could throw him in there. So he really didn't have any – because I remember Sparky talking about him in the book because there's the Bronx Zoo book that he wrote there. So that's a real book. It's not fake. The one that he wrote, Sparky Lyle. What's it called? Bronx Zoo, I think. Isn't it a real book it's not fake the one that he wrote sparky lyle

bronx zoo i think isn't it bronx at all no it's actually good so really good so um the uh he ends up he had one loss and they said the one loss was his best performance of the season catfish hunter on june 17th gave up four first inning home runs against the Red Sox. Oh, my. Four solo shots. So they brought Clay in because it's mop-up duty now, basically. At this point, you can't do any damage. We're already in the hole by a lot. Might as well let the kid get some work, you know?

So Clay ends up holding them scoreless through the fourth. Then the Yankees tie the score. And then the Red Sox score a run after that uh when the yankees tie the score and then the red socks score a run after that giving the loss to clay even though he held them in the game poor bastard yeah because they just ruined this day well because they tied it while he was pitching he ends up with the loss now which sucks that really sucks when catfish gave up four fucking first inning homers now something really weird happens to him i don't know if this has ever happened again but it's definitely a trivia question on august 27th 1977 on consecutive pitches ken clay gives up two

inside the park home runs on consecutive pitches i've never ever seen or heard of that before ever i can't imagine that's even possible even back-to-back batters never mind just consecutive pitches that's fucking bonkers toby harrah and bump willis had inside the park home runs that often he threw a ball inside the park home run new guy gets up on the first pitch same thing that's ah unfathomable right it's crazy you'd want to quit what are the odds of that that's impossible how did i do that it's in the park there's no one can get it and bring throw it the fuck to somebody please right jesus this is on you guys this really isn't even on me do you understand how rare this is this doesn't happen you know how often it happens twice i don't know that it's ever

happened twice in one game ever yeah i don't think it i've never heard of it before i was shocked when i read that i was like that happened ever holy shit um he says though he was still happy he says though he was he came up when catfish hunter was hurt that's why they brought him up initially to start and then they moved him to the bullpen when catfish came back in and he said though he's happy because he got he's getting a chance and he doesn't care now you know which as long as he gets a chance he said quote there are a lot of good players in the minors who should be in the big leagues but they just never get the chance you know he said quote you've got to do you've got a job to do so you can't think about the crowd and what's going on around you. But there's a lot of pride and tradition involved in playing with the Yankees.

So he's been to their little PR course telling them what to say. Right. And he does it. So that year, he's two wins, three losses, which for a reliever really doesn't matter what your record is. You don't have a lot of control over your record sometimes. 4.37 ERA in 21 games. He had three starts, and he came in relief for the rest of the time. One save.

He had 20 strikeouts and 24 walks, which is a big problem for a reliever, though. You can't have that. But still. How many strikeouts? 20 strikeouts and 24 walks in how many innings? In 55.2 innings. That's not good.

No, it's not good. It's not great. But the situations they put him in, they see a lot of potential. He's only 23. He came up from the minors this year. So he's a guy you'd like to see what he's got later. Now, the postseason comes around, though. He doesn't play in the alcs

that we talked about against kansas city but in the world series he does pitch in game two and uh he ends up i think game six he gets an inning or something anyway total of 3.2 innings pitched two hits one run uh 245 era does a fine job in the world series and now he's a world series champion that's a ring babe he's got a ring And now he's a World Series champion. That's a ring, Dave. He's got a ring right now with a fucking Yankee, a diamond Yankee symbol on it out of nowhere as a rookie. Grace. That's grace, right?

You know it is. It's got to be. That's a pretty good start. Not bad. He made $19,000 that year. Oh, my God. That hurts so bad. Right in the heart. Oh, Jesus. $19,000 that year. Oh, my God. That hurts so bad. Right in the heart. Oh, Jesus.

$19,000. Back then, that was still a livable salary. That wasn't like $19,000 now where you're like, Jesus, I got to do DoorDash at night. Yeah, $19,000 champion is not a champion. That's a failure. But that was his salary. Then you get playoff and world series bonuses too so he ended up probably making more off of that than he did yeah that

rings four or five grand yeah in this in the 60s the super bowl bonus used to be 25 000 a player for the winning team so i it's probably you know similar in the world, if not more, because baseball was pretty big. So anyway, in the offseason now, fluff pieces abound about Ken Clay. He's a young up-and-comer, especially back home. Future of the Yankees, yeah. Oh, they love him. Fluff pieces. Here's one. Quote, Ken Clay isn't your ordinary professional athlete.

No. Of course he's not. No? isn't your ordinary professional athlete no of course he's not no in a day when the going thing in professional sports is multi-million dollar contracts squabbles with the press and front office and life in the public eye clay to steal a phrase is like a breath of fresh air yeah it's because he has 19 grand he can't afford to be an asshole he bends right over and grabs his ankles and takes it and fucking says, thank you, sir. May I have another?

He's fucking great. He says, you see, despite being a member of the world champion New York Yankees and one of the brightest stars on the baseball horizon, he is still a down to earth person who has not forgotten where he came from and who has helped him to get there. Yeah, because he's still there. Yeah. He only has 19 grand. That's what I mean. He's like, listen, do you have a couch I can sleep on for a while? Because I had to pay a lot of taxes, and I bought some other stuff, and I got my mom some furniture.

I'm out of money. So you can help me out here. George is being cheap. So they said, blah, blah, blah, down-earth person, a native of Lynchburg and a star pitcher for EC Glass High School. Clay recently appeared in Farmville as a special celebrity guest in the Farmville Christmas Parade. That's an app now.

Yeah. It's a real place. That's probably where it came from. So he's in the Farmville Christmas Parade. I wonder if that's something in your Farmville games. They didn't have that anymore? That's like 20 years ago, isn't it? No, it was only like, fuck, five, 10 years ago, right?

10 years ago. That seems like a long time ago. Maybe five years? I don't know how long ago it was. It was only like, you know, if you had a friend, their 75-year-old aunt would be like, do you play Farmville? No. Can you water my plants?

No. I don't know what you're talking about. What are you talking about, grandma? I don't understand you. It was an app on Facebook, right? No, I think so. It was like an add-on on Facebook? I think so.

Yeah, there was a lot of those back then. People would be posting their shit. Yeah, that too. Oh, the people posting that crap. I'm so sorry. I played that one. Oh, no, Jimmy. I apologize.

You were annoying me on facebook you were one of the ones i wasn't asking anybody to help me i just but i definitely did it i didn't anybody to help i didn't want anybody to know i was doing it okay so you do it in private i don't give a shit what you're doing the people that were like they would like spam everybody with requests to you know help you fucking tend your wheat. And I'm like, get the fuck away from me. I don't know you. Fuck your carrots.

Fuck your carrots. Fuck your rutabagas. Eat shit and die. So, 1977, he also talks about Billy Martin because he says that he emphasizes that he sympathizes. He wanted to emphasize his sympathy with Billy Martin is what he wanted to do. He said, quote, Billy had a tough job because he couldn't afford to lose with all that talent he had. He said, we were embarrassed in Boston when we lost three straight and Billy and Reggie Jackson had that altercation. Did you ever see that?

No. You never saw Billy Martin try to fight Reggie Jackson in the dugout? Why would you? It is the funniest fucking thing you'll ever see in your life. Billy, you don't. Oh, Billy Martin. This is not even, Billy. Oh, Billy will fight you.

He doesn't care. He'll get his ass kicked. But this is the time when Billy would still go out after the games and get in bar fights and shit. We're talking he's in his 50s and he's still doing it. Like he's Billy set off the Copacabana fucking brawl. billy's the that's why he got traded up from the yankees billy's a fucking all he does is fight so reggie was loafing from what billy set out and fucking right field and missed a ball so he he pulled him off the field uh to get the fuck out of here and pulled him out of the game so reggie came in what the fuck and billy elston howard had to hold pick him up off the ground hold him billy's legs and arms

were gone he was trying to kill right and reggie's like are you out of your fucking mind like people are like like in front of reggie and he's just like what the fuck is wrong i will kill you old man are you nuts you're gonna hold me back just make sure that little man doesn't get near me i am twice your weight right what are What are you talking about, dude? And Billy is legitimately trying to fight Reggie Jackson in the prime of his life. Fight your ankle. Out of his mind. So he said, then we lost the first two in Detroit, and Billy was on the eve of being fired.

It reflected bad on him because of all the material he had. He said, you know, with Catfish Hunter his arm problems and all the bickering and all that sort of thing he said that he felt like a lot of the internal squabbles pulled the team together though so that's good for a team sometimes to fight it brings them yeah i could see that somehow this team it worked out as a weird chemistry um he said we had a lot of former oakland players on the team which reggie and a couple of the other guys there sure so the atmosphere in our club was similar to theirs and i don't think fighting ever helps a team but i think it pulled us together and made us realize the hard through the hard times that we had to start winning so 1978 he is hailed as one of the top young pitching prospects

coming into spring training he's the guy to right watch out for him he's gonna steal a spot in the rotation from someone he's the guy uh absolutely he's looking to get a spot on the opening day roster um he says he talks to the press a little bit kind of gets himself in the doghouse saying that he's upset that the yankees signed a bunch of free agent pitchers because they signed Goose Gossage that year. Okay. They signed Andy Messersmith and Raleigh Eastwick. They were going out getting good pitchers.

Yeah. Established free agents. George was willing to spend money there. So he said that they thought that would hurt his chances of making the club to have all these shoe-in pitchers that have guaranteed contracts, obviously. So that means that clay would then get some shit from the media get some shit from the team for being butthurt about it and all that shit so uh catfish has his own take on ken clay though he said quote he's got a great arm a great slider and bad brains oh shit which is pretty fucking cold yeah it is yeah that is underhanded as at minimum backhanded that hurts

bad brains and that's what they all call him a dumb shit everybody calls him an idiot um he felt that the advice he offered to ken clay often went un-listened to he wouldn't pay attention to him he's like you're out the other he's like you know i'm pretty good you should probably hear listen to me and I'm a veteran. And Sparky Lyle, who is, like I said, he won the Cy Young Award the year before in relief. He also said he would offer advice to Clay about his tendency to wear out his arm in practice. Ken would throw like crazy in the pregames and early in the morning and shit like that. And they said, and then he'd be dead in the game.

He's walking people. Yeah, he's walking people. His control isn't right. He's wore himself out in practice trying to get, I don't know if he had a certain, I need to be able to do this and feel this way before I'm ready or whatever. But the 78 season, the Yankees go 163 extra game

due to the one game playoff with Boston where Bucky Dent hits the home run. So there you go. That year, though, he gets a chance to start for the Yankees. They're going to maybe let him be a starter. He's been a starter all his life until last year, basically. So he he said he felt he started three games the year before. He said, I think I'll do better starting.

He said, it's hard to be effective when you don't pitch a lot because the stronger you are the more trouble you have you try to throw instead of pitch so yeah you can't if you haven't pitched in 10 days you got way too much pent up you need to you need to whack it a couple times in between there so you can not fucking got a tug before the first day yeah it's too much you know what i mean it's you're gonna be way too excited and that's what he's talking about here he said i don't think everybody uh anybody ever wants to be traded because they had talked about him being traded he said i'd like to finish my career here and the yankees have always treated me well and have been a first class operation so yeah he said please and the newspaper said quote the yankees would do themselves a favor

to keep him oh so talking him into it yeah but the he's annoying people also um hal mccray who's 32 years old his son is hal mccray brian mccray all those people um he said uh after 10 years in the major leagues that he's learned uh to pay attention to try not to pay attention to rookies. Now he's like, I can't deal with these young guys. He said that he gets annoyed with guys like Brian Doyle, Jim Beattie and Ken Clay. He's tired of him. He said, quote, I felt like a veteran player in an instructional league. Jesus Christ.

There were young kids all over the place and i didn't know what was going on usually doesn't work out that way for kids no doubt jesus christ that's rough it's a tough league it's a tough team to join as a kid those are a bunch of fucking wily veterans there so 78 he has a 428 era he's three and four so pretty basic 75 innings pitched he starts six games but he has 21 appearance or 28 appearances so he's mainly a reliever his walks and strikeouts 32 strikeouts 21 walks so a little bit better but still not terrific it's not good um the yankees here uh were leading four to nothing when he was called into the first game of the 78 American League Championship Series against the Royals with one out and the bases loaded in the sixth inning. And the Royals only got one run on a sacrifice fly.

So that was that. Then he retired Al Cowens on a ground out to get out of the inning and gave up one more run, and then he held them hitless the rest of the way to get the save. That's a professional. That's a pro. They set him up to fail really hard there, there too as a dude that walks people that much yeah he came out with one that's pretty good that was gonna throw him into the fire and fuck it see what happens this season was crazy for the yankees by the way the uh the yankees this year billy martin started off managing and

now mind you billy won the world series last year. They fire him when he's 52-42. Yeah. Well, it's because he's fighting with Steinberg. It has nothing to do with the record because that's just whatever. So then Dick Hauser is one game because he was, like, the interim manager. Well, they got Bob Lemon over there who went 48-20 the rest of the way, and the Yankees end up going to the playoffs. They beat the Royals again in the

ALCS and then go to the Dodgers go to the World Series against the Dodgers and again beat them in six. Of these World Series you have the Reggie Jackson three homer, Mr. October, you have all that shit. It's a lot going on here. It's historical.

It's historical this whole thing. And Ken's a part of it? He's a part of it he's a part of both of these teams yeah 77 and 78 so it's a lot um he they win the world series that year too he makes how much you think he makes that year 24 000 21 grand my god that's so painful the man has not he made 40 grand and he's part of the two of the best yankee teams ever and he's he's in the same locker room with reggie jackson who's making like over a million dollars. He's got a candy bar with his face on it. Like he's fucking, hey, he's wearing fur coats and shit.

And he's broke. Yeah, this guy's like, I just bought a nice three-year-old Chevy. It's beautiful. I like it a lot, and I'm going to. And I need another contract to pay the rest of my lease. I do have, no, I owe a lot on it. I another contract to pay the rest of my lease. I do have. No, I owe a lot on it. I put like 500 down, and that really hurt.

So 79 Yankees here come around. And he said that he's happy that he avoided going back down to the minors over the last two seasons because it's hard when they ship you back and forth from the minors to the majors. That's difficult. He said, it's going on three years now and it seems like 10. They keep telling me I'll get my chance, but with the tradition here of acquiring pitchers, you have to wonder. Starting to get discouraged that he'll ever get his fair shot, as he thinks of it.

But when you're on a championship-level team that expects to win every year, they don't have time to bring you along that's sometimes it's not a good situation for a guy who needs to be brought along sometimes you need a you need to be in a on a shit team that knows it's going to be in fifth place and we'll give you 200 innings and let you work out whatever your problems are like that's we need you to be a role person and do what your role is yeah which is Which is a lot of times the veterans are better at that because they can, you know, this kid's like, I just want to start. I don't know what I'm doing. It's going to be a part of the Yankees. Yeah.

Well, the 79 Yankees, if this isn't strange, they finish 89, 71, 89 and 71 in fourth place. They don't make the playoffs. Oh, no. Bob Lemon was 34 and 31 when he's fired now, and they bring Billy Martin back. Billy, we're so sorry. He did this like four times where he'd fire him and then he'd come back

the next season. It's crazy. Him and Steinbrenner have a whole thing back and forth. Love-hate thing, huh? For 10 years he did it. Yeah. He knew Billy was passionate and he cared so he wanted him there but then he'd drive him nuts and he'd fire him it was fucking go home but don't get another job because i may need you bring it back the next year it's fucking insane um so yeah billy's starting to get you know a little bit of a complex about the whole thing and uh he said that

uh that's about he had a bad night and he goes that's the type of year i'm having he said that uh he pitched four and three in four and one third innings and yielded just one run on four hits and he ended up getting a loss for it that sucks man yeah because i felt good and i didn't want to come out but with the guys we have doing the job you have to you have to come within with the team especially you have to come in with them, especially with the score tied. And he said, the problem is I go 10, 15 days, maybe even longer without pitching.

You can't do that. And then expect to be sharp and game ready? That's crazy. Then I have to maintain my confidence and do the job when I get called on. Not only do you have to be ready, you have to pitch almost perfectly for them to get confidence in you so you have to sit there for two weeks doing and then they're like here's your chance go now and you're like fuck this has to

be perfect or else I'm never yeah go be the best Yankee that you can be it's tough that's really tough he said there's no question in my mind that I can win I haven't done it here because to be honest I haven't gotten the chance I want to start and I want to start in my mind that I can win. I haven't done it here because, to be honest, I haven't gotten the chance. I want to start, and I want to start in the major leagues. I have nothing left to prove in the minors. I have to get established in the majors. I can win, especially on a good club. It could be a dream come true.

So that's all he wants. He says that he feels really physically strong, and he tries to overpower hitters and winds up rushing his delivery and being out of whack and walking people and that's his main problem if he could get in a rhythm where he's pitching every couple days he'd be a lot better he said he said jeff torborg worked with me before the game on relaxing remember he was a manager for the white socks for a long time torborg torborg yeah jeff torborg um He said, on relaxing and laying down the situation, I was in total command of my pitches.

I used the slider to set up the fastball and ran it in on people. I just hope this club still considers me a starter. I don't want to be labeled a reliever. Well, you've gotten put in the bullpen two straight years, three straight years. You're a reliever. It seems like maybe you're a reliever here uh but he thinks he can win he does um he says uh problem is billy martin doesn't like him okay bob lemon was more of a fan than billy martin so which is funny because billy martin's the guy

that brought him up from the minors yeah you picked him had him in the 77 season put him in a world series game he did well then when billy gets fired and comes back he pretends like these are all bob lemon's guys anyone who doesn't do well aren't my guys those are bob lemon's guys and he tries to distance himself from them even if they were my guys bob lemon has uh sprinkled all his lemon juice on them and they're a mess he says this quote it's not the same bullpen I had. Yeah, he ruined it. He ruined it, yeah. He said that, quote, it's not close.

I inherited it. I'm not making alibis. I'm just stating a fact. You put Ken Clay in that bullpen, sir. That is your idea. That is definitely your idea. He said that, yeah, he was upset about that. They asked him about Clay's performance after the Yankees had a five-run first inning,

and he said, quote, he was pitching the hitters just the opposite of how he was supposed to pitch them. He wasn't pitching the ball. He was aiming it. Aiming the ball means you take a little off the pitch to get it to a certain spot. It's the worst way in the world to pitch, especially when you're a one-pitch pitcher like he is. Ouch.

Which is rough because even catfish gave him credit for a slider yeah before he said he has brains are bad he said fucking he's got a good slider and a good fastball billy won't even give him the good fastball or the slider one of the two he's one of them he likes the other one he hates no shit so they said the press then went looking for Clay to get a response. Hey, Billy says that you're, you know, you're horseshit. Your manager just said this about you. Your manager called you horseshit response.

Those people are not your friends, Ken. Only assholes will go and tell you what gossip's being said about you. No shit. No shit, really. God damn it. So apparently when he got pulled out out he left the dugout even though billy told him to stay there yeah in the dugout he left anyway so they're saying he's going to be fine for leaving the dugout and um yeah he's uh he's upset and then uh he also says uh steinbrenner starts talking now, George Steinbrenner, the owner, and he says,

Clay has continually complained about not getting a chance to pitch, but he has refused any of our suggestions to help his pitching. I've heard people tell me what a great army has, but I question his heart. Oh, my God. If you're an owner, you never, ever, ever, ever, never say, I question his heart. That's the worst thing

you could say but like no one wants to play for a guy who questions your heart that's fucking doesn't want he doesn't want to win he's got no heart not to the media anyway you don't question it he said in shit for brains and no art he's heartless shit for brains um let's see here so he's got no heart isn't it say where if the cowardly lion enters into this, he needs to go see the wizard because he's already two out of the three. Yeah. He's got no courage. If he can help a little girl get home, we can make this work out. Was Dorothy supposed to be a little girl or was she supposed to be like 19?

I think she's supposed to be like a 14 to 16 year old girl. Okay. I imagine. Because as a kid, I always thought of her as like an older i thought of her as like a 20 year old yeah right yeah she had boobs so you were like oh she's yeah yeah when you're in the fourth grade she's not one of us she's got boobs so that's an older person 25 or something right i'm sure yeah at the time judy garland yeah so i always wondered that as a kid i'm like how old is she supposed to be? Is this family just weird? I don't think it's ever been mentioned. Yeah. Is she just weird and they treat her like a child? And like, is she like, is she mentally, is she special or something? Yeah. Like what's the, what's going on? What's happening? Why does she live with her aunt and uncle? Where's her parents? Yeah. I want to know a lot of things about Dorothy's backstory, but I'll make it up. Don't worry about it.

lot of things about dorothy's backstory but i'll make it up don't worry about it so back to steinbrenner i've heard people tell me what a great army has but i question his heart in horse racing we have what we call a morning glory what does that mean the horse works a great three or four furlongs in the morning workout and looks sensational. Then when the race comes, he starts sweating during the parade to the post and when he gets to the gate and the race starts, he stinks the place out. He spits the bit. Then he says, Kenny Clay is a morning

glory. He spit the bit. In case you didn't recognize the metaphor I just made, let me tell you an exact. He is a morning glory. He spit the bit he doesn't have the courage there it is wow that is brutal there's the lion wait no he wants courage yeah that's crazy i said he's the scarecrow he's the fucking there you know he's lying too he's got no heart yeah no heart the heart's tin man right for brains yeah yeah heart's tin man heart brain

courage all of it shit for brain courage that, Hart's tin man. Hart brain courage. All of it. Hart shit for brain courage. That's it. If he wants to go home back to Tennessee, all he wants to do is get back to Lynchburg. That's it. We're done. He needs a tornado and to wake up.

That's all. Does he have a little dog? I want to know. Tap your heels, Clay. So is Billy Martin the Wicked Witch of the West then? I guess so. He kind of looks like her i think billy martin is the wicked witch then oh my god the steinbrenner would definitely be the wizard yeah ain't no attention i'm huge are the uh are the flying monkeys yeah yeah that's fucking funny

so uh he doesn't have the courage that may be harsh but that's the way i feel he goes on he goes one one good outing and three putrid ones this was putrid he looks good in the bullpen but he gets on the mound and he chokes no heart doesn't have the courage he chokes so you're getting in his head if his head isn't already fucked up it's it's fucked up now oh my god he you're calling you're telling me he can't play then he says he gets five runs and he does that to his teammates he's even like doing that i can't accept that he's one of the biggest disappointments i've had since i've had the Yankees. Unbelievable. Imagine you're a 20 fucking five-year-old guy and the owner of the New York Yankees just absolutely called you the biggest pile of shit that you could be. And you've got to go out and play the Orioles tomorrow night. That is, that's hideous.

That's just terrible. You can't do that. You could ruin a kid like that. It's certainly not team building. It's fucking terrible. terrible you can't do that you could ruin a kid like that it's certainly not team building it's fucking terrible this is also not um not out of steinbrenner's normal range here he do you remember in 1999 he called what he called hideki arabu no hideki arabu the japanese pitcher he yeah brought in he said quote he looks like a fat pussy toad.

Say again? A fat pussy toad is what he said he looked like. He said that to the press? To the press. Quote, unquote, he looks like a fat pussy toad. I can't believe I spent this much money on him is what he went on to say after that about him, what a piece of garbage he was. Wow. So that's what Steinbrenner's like I think I may start using that

though fat pussy toad he'll pay you a fortune more than anyone else but you got to take some heat you will be called a fat pussy toad yeah in print Arabu did do one of the greatest things I've ever seen in in charging the plate which is rare he beamed a guy with the ball, threw it at him in his back, and by the time the guy turned his back and he took a turn to take the ball in the back, by the time he turned back around, Arabu was attacking him. He threw it and just followed the ball in,

running at the guy to beat him up. It was fucking hilarious. You don't see that very often. Catcher didn't know what to do. He was like, holy shit. So who threw the ball? Arabu. He threw it and charged.

He threw it and ran. He didn't charge the mound. He charged the home plate. Yeah. He threw the ball and just ran. He didn't stop with that. He threw it and just kept running at the batter. I don't think I saw that.

So the batter got a ball and then a japanese man jumping on him like japanese quickly in quick succession bang bang a fat pussy toad mind you but at least he clearly has the courage in the heart that's the least pussy move i've ever heard of you know maybe that's why he did it later he threw a ball at and then charged a man holding a weapon that's incredible that's the toughest man i've ever heard of it's fucking crazy i guess that's how you have to do it if the guy has a bat or you could just wait till he doesn't have a bat fight him without any weapons there's also that could just walk him and then attack him on the way to first base that is the

least pussy thing ever it's pretty crazy crazy. It's funny to watch. So that year, not shockingly, while his manager and owner are ripping him to shreds in the press. So when they do that, now he's got, you know how many newspapers are in New York in the 70s? Oh my God. He's got fucking 20 of them. Now he's got 20. It's all papers. He's got 20 guys standing around him with cigars in their mouth going, so what do you think about your boss calling you a pussy? And a fucking, he said, you have no heart and no courage.

Your manager has no faith in you. What do you think about that? And he's pussy and a fucking he said you have no heart and no courage your manager has no faith in you what do you think about that and he's like um fuck i don't know that's brutal so that year he goes one in seven unsurprisingly with a 540 era with a crowd chanting fat pussy toad fat pussy toad he's got no heart he's got no heart. He's got no brain. He's got no courage and he's fucking lame. Pop, pop, pop, pop. And they just keep going. People holding up ruby slippers. Waving them, throwing them at him. When he has a bad outing and he gets pulled, they throw ruby slippers at him.

Not in celebration. No place like home. No place like home. Send him home. Send him home. 28 strikeouts, 25 walks. Just not great. 78 innings pitched.

Just not good stuff. Makes 21 grand again. Oh, he is a failure. It's bad stuff. He's the biggest failure ever with two championship rings. Right? He's got it, and he feels like dog shit. So the next spring he comes in and he says new year

it's a new i'm good now me yeah new year new me he said he's he arrived in camp talking about the maturity and the confidence and he's been working on an off-speed pitch in the off season he was pitching down in puerto rico in the winter league and he was breaking ball working on his off-speed pitch to you know get guys off balance so he's harder to hit. He said that he's going to prove that he should be pitching regularly and starting in the majors. And his first three innings in the Yankees' B-squad game of spring training. This is ridiculous.

In the paper they go, yesterday brought Clay his first test. He flunked. Pitching in the first three innings in the Yankees b squad game against the braves b team the 1980 ken clay was all too similar to the 1979 ken clay he allowed both runs in a 2-1 loss he allowed two hits walk two and struck out none and he was satisfied and he smiled about it because i know this i talked to rod about this a lot in the spring you're not all your unless you're trying to make the team and you're a rookie and they don't know who you are if you're on the team all you're trying to do is be able to throw the ball over

the plate you don't give a shit if they hit it over the wall every time it's the spring you're like i'm just getting my arm in the right slot getting my release point right all my mechanics correct in a game situation trying to get it over the plate. I don't give a fuck about anything else. A lot of times they don't even throw breaking balls for the first few outings of spring because they don't even want to bother him with it. You just want to get their fastball. You just want to make sure I get the ball where it needs to be.

He's fighting for, they're saying there's going to be 10 pitchers, and he's probably the number nine man. So he's fighting at the bottom, and Dave Rigetti's trying to make the team, who ends up making the team. He throws a no-hitter in 1981 or 82, I don't remember. So he does well and then becomes their closer for years. Didn't he manage the Giants for a while? I know he was a pitching coach there. Either way, I don't know.

Clay said that he did not seem displeased by it uh quote two criticisms of clay are that he's usually satisfied too easily and that he rationalizes his failures yeah but that's what you do when you're a reliever yeah right that's that's the game as soon as that ball clears the wall and that guy hits the walk-off home run that never happened anymore or else you're fucked you dwell on that this game's over next day you have to come in and go i don't know what you're talking about i had a great game yesterday fuck you like that's what you do period and rod told me that too so that's a i know that for closers he said that um uh if it was important if it was about the game that that he they said he plunked the big test he said if it was important, if it was about the game that they said he plunked the big test, he said, if it was important, nobody told me. I was most interested in being comfortable, getting used to throwing batters in a game again.

And I did that. Exactly what you do. He said, I pitched well over here. He said, I finished the second half two and three. He's talking about the last year. I had about five or six no decisions. I don't think I allowed more than two runs in any game in those no decisions. So he's talking about all this shit. He said, I think I've really

matured as a pitcher. I've learned to change speeds, which is something I have never mastered in the past. I have a better idea of how pitching within my means is and not trying to overthrow. And pitching with what I have on that day i think i've really learned that now i think it's going to make me a better pitcher i'm looking forward to this year because i'm really throwing well so he's ready and that's true too if your curveball is not working that day you don't still throw the curveball on a fucking you know important count because that's not working that day you do what's working i don't have that right now and and leaving it out there is too much. Yeah, exactly.

The opportunity for them to smash it. I still want to keep this game and my job. And your job. He said, I could have pitched more innings, maybe five or six, and the more I pitched, the better I would have done. I tend to concentrate more when I get tired, which is normal for everybody. So there's a lot of people talking a lot of shit about him, though, still. He says, I expect they'll have me doing the same thing I did this year as I did last year,

some middle inning relief, some short relief, maybe even some starts. But I know I'm not going to be a good relief. I know I'm never going to be a good relief pitcher. I'm almost 26, but I'm too young to be a mop-up pitcher. I shouldn't be a short reliever because I'm not a strikeout pitcher. I get my outs on ground balls. Last year, the ground balls went through, which is true. If you've got grounders and they go up the middle, well, that's not really, you know,

I got them to hit it on the ground. A lot of luck involved in that. I came here a better pitcher than I've ever been because of that new pitch, he says, but it probably won't make that much difference. George Steinbrenner wants to win, win, win wants the big name pitchers to pitch so i won't it probably doesn't matter how well i pitch down here there's not going to be a chance for me unless someone gets hurt yikes um so um he said they always go after the free agent pitchers i didn't get a chance even when other guys got hurt. They brought up another guy and let him start.

I should have just had the chance. I know Ron Guidry's pitching well now and making money, but if I would have lost the first two times they gave me a chance like I did, he'd be in the same position I'm in now. So that's what he's saying. They would have talked all the shit to him in the world. He said after that, he ends up starting the beginning of the season he does not start on the opening day roster gets sent down to the minors at this point he's a 4a

guy too good for triple a not quite a great major leaguer yeah so anyway he's he's hoping he does better then uh he's in the minors still, and on August 14, 1980, the Yankees trade him to the Texas Rangers for Gaylord Perry. No kidding. Yeah, he was old as shit at that point, but still. Ken says, when I got to New York in 77, I got there not because of bad circumstances, but because of an injury. I pitched frequently in 77 when I got called up.

Then after the injuries of course those guys went back into the rotation and i began to sit around the longest period of time i sat was 58 days without pitching in a game holy shit that's two months you can't do that and then expect to be sharp when i went to the big leagues i felt like i was ready to be really ready to be there i was ready to step in and pitch. But I didn't because, number one, there was no room. And number two, the Yankees have never been an organization to put rookies out on a test. You have to prove yourself to pitch for them. So I sat there for about three years.

In 79, I had a bad year. In 80, there wasn't enough room on the roster for me. So I was outrighted to Columbus and then traded to Texas. I never really got an opportunity to pitch in new york then they said do you think it was because george steinbrenner soured on you right and he said quote i don't think george steinbrenner really soured on me really really he called you a gutless punk in the fucking paper he basically said ken clay's a bitch he's a bitch ass how much do you need him to call you a fat pussy toad for you to get it?

He said he had no courage. I'd rather be called a fat pussy toad. That sounds like it's off the top of his head. He called me morning glory, spit the bit, fucking I have no heart, no courage. Godless, gutless, brainless, dickless. The most embarrassment Yankee of his career. Godless, gutless, brainless, brainless dickless pitchless shithead we're not gonna have him on our team i wish that could be the title of the show god damn it where's the tylenol god damn it where's the tylenol called him everything under

the sun that's exactly what it was so um yeah he said though he's he could do it he said he's going to be good he said that george didn't sour on me he said a lot of things that and then he just trailed off he didn't oh yeah i forgot about all those things and then he comes back with i pitched in the 77 and 78 series which is not the question um i saved game one of the 78 playoffs and pitched effectively in the series also. That's when George was really giving me the build-up. I was finally peaking. In 78, when we were going down to the

wire, we came 14 and a half back. The big pivotal game was in Toronto. Ron Guidry got beat the first game, and I came back and won the second. I think that put us one game up with about six to play. Of course, George really loved that. Finally, Ken up with about six to play. Of course, George really loved that. Finally, Ken Clay has done something for George.

So George was building me up. Then after the playoffs in the series in 79, it was, oh boy, I can't wait to see him in the spring. Well, in that spring, I didn't do it. I don't in the spring. I don't do anything. That was the first year I sat for 58 days without pitching. There was no way I could go out and pitch the way I wanted to. So he said he's happy to go to texas he said i was i was ready to leave new york because i couldn't see myself going any further there i wasn't getting a chance to pitch and i wasn't getting

any younger just sitting there fair enough yeah rangers that year are really shitty uh 75 and 86 or 76 and 85 uh here they i'll give you their lineup you tell me how many guys you you can tell me anything about there's a couple that i know of but jim sunberg pat putnam bump willis you know he hit a back-to-back walk-off uh pepe frias no bud buddy bell yeah remember him white hair no man like he looked like he looked like at some point I think later on he looked like Playboy Buddy Rose kind of but in better shape the wrestler I had some oh my cousin Jesse had a Buddy Bell model fucking baseball glove when we were kids I was like Buddy Bell model the fuck are you you doing Al Oliver. He was on sale, obviously. Had to have been. Al Oliver, who was on the Pirates, I know.

Mickey Rivers, they got him from the Yankees. They're center fielder. Johnny Grubb and Richie Zisk. Neither. Yeah, that's their starting lineup. What? Yeah, that's their starting nine. They also have Fergie Jenkins out there, too, but he's 37 at this point, so they don't have young Fergie Jenkins here.

They've got an old Ed Figueroa. Not too great. Like I said, team isn't that terrific. And he's 2-3 is his record, a 460 ERA. He starts all eight games he plays in. He has 17 strikeouts, 29 walks. Not good. Not good. plays in uh he has 17 strikeouts 29 walks not good not good december 12th 1980 traded by the rangers here uh with they've already given up that's it half a season done not even a month and a half

yeah uh traded with steve finch brian allrad rick auerbach jerry don gleaton and richie zisk to the seattle mariners for larry cox rick honeycutt willie Zisk to the Seattle Mariners for Larry Cox, Rick Honeycutt, Willie Horton, not the one from the campaign ads in the 88 election, a different Willie Horton, Mario Mendoza and Leon Roberts. A huge trade of minor leaguers and garbage and relief pitchers. So in 81, he's with Seattle. He's going to do great. He said,

it's a good organization. It's not the New York Yankees or the Texas Rangers. It's a young organization and they're building. They just need the right type of people behind it to run the show. I've got a lot of, I've gotten a lot out of baseball. Now I'm in baseball to see what kind of accomplishments I can achieve. I've never really had the type of year I thought of.

I thought I've been capable of having. So the Seattle Mariners, this is a strike-shortened year, by the way, 281. They go 44 and 65 that year. 44 and 65? Yeah, 44 and 65. Ouch. Not that good. Here's their starting nine here.

Jerry Neron, Bruce Bocci, not Bruce Bochy, the manager, different guy. Julio Cruz, Jim Anderson, Dan Meyer, Tom Pasiorik, Joe Simpson, Jeff Burrows, Richie Zisk. Heard of zero except for Richie Zisk, and that's only because I know from him 10 minutes ago. Yeah, from the last fucking team. Yeah. This is not last fucking team. Yeah. This is not a good team. Bud Black is one of the pitchers. He's a San Francisco Giants guy later on.

Anyway, not very good. He goes 2-7 with a 4-63 ERA. Yikes. That's what he does. He's a mid-4s ERA guy. That's what you're getting. He starts 14 games, but he pitches in 22, so they move him to the bullpen too. When Seattle moves you to the bullpen in the early 80s, you know you're not doing well.

He gives up 116 hits in 101 innings, which is way too many. 32 strikeouts, 42 walks. Dude. Oh, no. Can't do that. So 1982, spring training here um he ends up uh 1982 spring training he's coming along here and uh he's ready to do it he says 82 is the year it says this is it he's finally ready and uh what ends up happening is they cut him in the spring and rather than trying to latch on with a new team he just says fuck it i'm done and retires

probably smart retires at like 27 done yeah that's it done i mean he throws he walks more than he throws strikes so consistently you got two rings you could quit the guys like matt bush went to jail and then threw in a fucking golden corral parking lot to get their shit back this guy's like fuck it this is hard try harder this is a career you try harder double down we didn't have a lot of listeners when we started we tried harder and we ended up you know making it work he's literally made 80 grand though in his career in baseball. Has not done well. And we'll find out.

He's got a job on the side and everything, and he's working in the offseason and stuff because he doesn't make a lot of money. But, yeah, I can't believe he retired. I'm shocked about that. I really am. Maybe he was told by somebody that it's probably over. Yeah, I can't imagine, though. Somebody wouldn't have given him a minor league deal.

I mean, he's been in the majors for the last five years. Somebody would take a flyer on him and sign him a minor league deal. I just don't think he wanted to deal with it anymore. No, maybe not. Maybe also he couldn't stomach the embarrassment of failing. Maybe. At least these owners weren't talking shit about him. That's helpful.

Either way, I mean, it's crazy the way it works out, but not as crazy as the sales, Jimmy, that are going on at this time. This is actually from 1977. I found some sales here. Okay. But I put it here, so who gives a shit? Anyway, if you happen to be in 1977 in New York City reading the New York Daily News, these are the ads you're going to find. In the Daily News. Daily News.

New shipment just arrived of 77 Olds Cut supremes oh 5159 bucks brand new air conditioning auto power steering brakes the whole deal imagine buying a brand new car for five grand five grand out the door uh so there's that i found a uh you can get a dodge like seriously dodge molester van like a real one a 77 with the bubble window b200 molester van hell yeah 4444 bucks for that those things are like 30 grand now by the way yeah they're so expensive um then you can drive your van over to this disgusting movie theater and see these horrible movies that i found so many there's a couple regular ones in here but so many fucking porn movies here from 77 uh one uh is called cry of a prostitute what that's the name of it and the quote is being a hooker never stopped me from

being a woman i mean cry of the prostitute um from what it looks like being a hooker never stopped me from being a woman i being cry of the prostitute um from what it looks like being a hooker never stopped me from being a woman and when you look at the poster it's a guy it's like kind of drawn here well where are your fucking chair over i'll show it to you what am i doing that for just move over three feet here let's check him out so he's got his shirt off and like looking the other way sad and she's like behind him like wait like it's almost like but i love you you know like i you know just because i'm a prostitute doesn't mean I can't fall in love and, you know, have a relationship. I think that's what we're going for here. It's supposed to be the first pretty woman.

And then it says plus second feature. Yeah, I think it's a pretty woman. Plus second feature. Cry rape. It says exciting, exciting second feature. Cry rape. That sounds awful. i don't want to see that both of those sound bad it says it boldly explores abnormal behavior okay yeah i would say also you can go see the grateful dead concert experience where you go to the movies and watch

a grateful dead concert i found a uh a burlesque show here that shows adult films in the background for only $3. You can see people dancing and all sorts of shit like that. New York was horny in the 70s. Oh, super horny. And right under that, connected to it, here, I'll show you here. Roll back over here. You have Girls, Girls, Girls, four burlesque shows daily, plus adult films right under it. Bad News Bears and Breaking Training. So you can see both. girls girls girls four blessed shows daily plus adult films right under it bad news bears and

breaking training so you can see both you know i don't know get a good laugh in afterwards see some porno or walter mathau oh my god that's fucking amazing and then uh what is this another that's some other i never even heard of that movie let's get to some more porn claudia i don't know what that is the most accomplished adult film I have ever seen. That's from Man's World magazine. Get out. The most accomplished adult film I've ever seen, dash, Man's World magazine. I shit you not.

I told you nothing else will be made up the rest of this episode here, Rob. Man's World magazine. It even says super quality x adult film it's playing all over the place high definition pussy in 77 oh yeah this is 35 millimeter another 16 millimeter fucking snatch we're doing it right um then there's a big one for they're really excited about James Bond, The Spy Who Loved Me. I never saw that. But Liz Smith from Cosmopolitan called it, this movie is Jaws, The Deep, and Star Wars all wrapped up into one. Wow.

Here's one, Sylvia, it's called. And it says seven women in the body of one. So it's like Sybil except Sylvia. Let's see what it says here. Dynamic scenes, somebody said in one of the reviews here. A triumph unsurpassed from a guy named TJ Roberts writing for Action for Men. Sure, he's a... Done as Hollywood could never do it and as TV would never do it.

Gripping. That's from some guy from Elite Magazine. And this is a porno or not? Oh, it's a porno. Yeah, it's an absolute porno. It's at the Pussycat Cinema on Broadway and 49th Street. Fucking Broadway and 49th Street back then.

And this is the ex-couples theater, they call it. It's the X-rated couples theater. Then my favorite from a guy writing for High Society. Yeah. You know, you got to write for them. Dynamite Entertainment. That is from R. Danzig from High Society.

Wow. Like the band. Yeah. Same spelling. So, oh, one more thing here. You can also go see Joy. joy yeah what the fuck is that it's a comical farce which upgrades the the genre bright imaginative titillating entertainment for couples see it so it's like light porn for couples like your wife won't mind seeing this

buster's fucking this might get her introduced to the genre and you might have a real freak on your hands she might go some some ladies like it in the butt i don't know let's watch and see how it goes maybe she'll like it see if she enjoys let's do it and then finally an ad for kentucky fried movie which is just fucking great that's really yeah an ad for kentucky fried movie fuck yeah bright and funny film the first class contemporary comedy anthology of recent years designed for the thinking man body good humor that's from the new york post so you ever seen kentucky fried movie no really yeah how'd you that's that's one of those things that just as like a comedy liking person of our age we like anybody older would have showed that's like i've

heard of it of course but i had a cousin who's in it anybody in it it doesn't matter it's it's a like a bunch of different like sketches and commercials it's like a bunch of weird stuff crammed into a movie maybe i'll find it and see if i have watched because i've seen heavy metal and all those dumb things what is it teenage college girls in trouble or college something in trouble and they show these it's fucking ridiculous it's a bunch of ridiculous sketches it's my everybody has a cousin that's a few years older than you that was like you have to see a kentucky fried movie i'm sure my uncle made me watch it absolutely watch a bunch of steven seagal bullshit oh no this is when that was like a thing no this is good he wouldn't have made you watch it this is like this

was considered like kind of cutting edge at the time like you know what i mean now i don't know how it would fly but i used to watch uh steven seagal and every gallagher special and uh yeah yeah he loved that stuff gallagher gallagher just smash fruit and yell he thought he was he thought he was big howie mandel fan too i hope he puts that thing on his head and blows it up. Boy, that is funny. I thought Gallagher was smart. Oh, well. He liked Gallagher's theories on the universe and shit. Oh, my God. Well, you know what?

He did make a career out of fucking putting watermelon all over people. So that is pretty smart. I got to be honest with you. I couldn't do that. While jumping on a giant trampoline or a giant couch. Couch that was a trampoline. That's what it was, right? Fucking terrible, man.

God, he sucked. He really sucked. He really sucked. He made a fuckload of money. Oh, yeah. So much so that he retired and sold it. He gave it to his brother or whatever. Remember that Chappelle Show sketch of Black Gallagher where he's like, and then he sold it to this guy.

That was funny so anyway uh he ken clay while he was retiring from sports and while you know all this he's been working the whole time for a company and he goes full time for this company in september 1984 what he becomes is jostens or jostens j-o-s-t. Exactly. I was going to say, those shitty class ring catalogs that you get and you go, yeah, like my parents are going to pay a hundred bucks for me to fucking say I went to this high school. Yeah, okay. Good luck with that. They also make the Yankees ring. They make championship rings for everybody.

Yeah, absolutely. But these, I guess he was a part-time salesman. I think he was selling them to schools and shit. I guess he was a part-time salesman. I think he was selling them to squares and shit. Imagine you're sitting there in high school and in walks a World Series champion. Pairing it. Two of them. You have no idea that he only has 80 grand.

You have no idea how bad he needs this job. Right. He's not doing this for fun or to get out of the house. He's doing this to eat food. He's doing this for the commissions. But I think it would help if you're like yeah the rings look kind of like this and you flash two fucking yankees world series rings yeah you know you can get them like this you know you've seen seen this type of

ring they're gonna be like holy shit you're awesome and they'll buy rings from you so yeah september 84 he becomes full-time distributor for that uh doing it out of bloomington minnesota that's where the place is based out of uh from 1986 seems like he's having some money problems because i see that he had a house in uh arizona actually which a lot of people did a lot of baseball players because spring training was there right he's had spring training rangers yeah with texas and seattle yeah so a lot of guys buy houses they were super cheap to buy back then, too, these houses in Phoenix. So here this is from a newspaper in Arizona. He, on debts of $82,736 and assets of $8,275, he's getting some, I guess, bankruptcy.

Chapter 7, I feel like like do we have an address of the house i want to know where it is 79 17 east colette circle oh c-o-l-e-t-t-e yeah that's a nice area it's probably in the east valley because that's where all the stadiums were back then so i assume it's a tempe or fucking that sounds like scottsdale babe scottsdale tempe yeah that was garbage back then, though. Nobody cared about that in the 80s. It was still North Scottsdale was good. South Scottsdale is just still full of strip clubs.

What are we talking about? It's still disgusting. So he's working for the Ring Company. And then in 1986, he has some problems when he's arrested and facing up to 20 years in prison what uh he's arrested on four counts of grand larceny for stealing thirty thousand dollars from justin's ink what he's just fucking stealing from them dude he's just straight he's just open the register stealing um yeah he's in he's indicted on four counts of grand larceny he surrendered to the police after being indicted he's released on a ten thousand dollar personal recognizance bond

he wouldn't make any comment on the way out of court they said that he deposited money from class ring sales into his personal account rather than in my god because they were back then the people were paying cash you have like a bank envelope. He just went and put it in his bank instead of fucking giving it to the company like he was supposed to. That is blatant. Blatant embezzlement. That's not even like, I'll make a paper that makes it look different. Where's that cash?

Gone. Wow. He just was straight stealing it and must have been doing it for a while. So, yeah, he did all of that the uh a state police special agent in charge of investigations said an investigation followed a complaint by the company that they had a bunch of money missing and uh the indictments charged he took the money between september 7th 1984 and february 24th 1986 so a year and a half he wasn't doing he didn't do like a big score he was doing like i need a

few bucks this week or something i'll get a couple hundred bucks here a few hundred bucks there type of shit stealing they won't notice i guess yeah but that's just more notice christ yeah it's easier to get away with something once than you know a little thing 150 times you know so anyway that's what he did uh so he goes to court and virginia prosecutors cut a deal with his attorneys here that will keep him out of prison he could have been sentenced to 20 years in prison on each count of two each of two counts of grand larceny wow so that was the the possible there but because he's had a you know he's a professional baseball player and all this he's never really been in trouble before they looked at all steinbrenner's quotes about him

they're like he's been through enough god damn it this poor bastard he's been through so much uh instead he is uh told by the court you sir may pay 15 000 in restitution not really fuck off yeah that's what he ended up pleading guilty to the company like kind of cut the losses and said may pay $15,000 in restitution. Not really. Fuck off. That's what he ended up pleading guilty to. The company kind of cut the losses and said, if he'll plead guilty to the two, then we'll drop the other two and we'll make it whatever. So they took the rest as a loss.

Plus, he has to pay $1,394.64 in court fees, and he gets 1,000 hours of community service. Oh, no. That's a lot of community service jesus christ what is that if you did 40 hours a week for that is a long time 10 20 that's 30 and 25 weeks of 40 hours a week that's half a year months six months of a full-time job holy shit they gotta give away i think they want to keep him busy for a couple of years as well it is because he also has given five years of supervised probation as well so i think they want it to be like that's what he does when he comes home from work because he does a few hours of community service well that's what happens when you steal thirty thousand dollars

from somebody if you're a pitcher and a world series champion i mean you can go show some kids how to pitch and run some clinics and i mean it's not the word it's not like he has to pick trash off the street that could be his community service that's pretty cool that'd be cool you could pass your knowledge along that'd be kind of nice to do i would think unless you're a total schmuck um so also gives him you sir may fuck off four years suspended sentence as well no kidding so he's got the probation and a suspended sentence so any fuck-ups he is like in prison immediately is the way the judge set it up so 1989 trying to keep out of trouble he joins the senior pro baseball association what is that which we've

talked about it before it's old guys who don't play in the league anymore who starting their own league it's like a 40 and over thing. Yeah. Yeah. Except it's not 40 cause he's not even 40 yet. Right. He's a child still. He's still in his thirties here. So he, uh,

he's 36 at the 35 right now. He, I guess there was eight original franchises. He signs with the gold coast sons and Florida. Okay. Um, they've split their home games between Miami and Pompano beach, Florida. Earl Weaver managed the sons. Awesome. Which is fucking, florida okay they've split their home games between miami and pompano beach florida earl

weaver managed the suns awesome which is fucking he's a bad man amazing yeah we've gone over that plenty yeah uh and earl immediately hired pistola pete ramos as their pitching coach told you he'd come into this pistola pete pedro fucking ramos there they bring in as their uh pitching coach um and then uh they also had joaquin andahar who went five and oh that year um burt campanaris was 47 playing every day in the league and hit 291 and stole 16 bases in 60 games how much does burt love baseball fuck he's gotta love it the team averaged 985 fans per game what that's not good we draw better than that our both our shows this weekend had more people than that each that's bad oh my we're a podcast you're you have a bunch of guys throwing baseballs hard

and hitting them like that's crazy you You've worn Major League licensed uniforms. Yeah. You had a uniform on. This is fucking crazy. So that was about half of the attendance that was projected by the investors. So the league ends up folding at the end of the season. And Ken never threw a pitch. Not one.

Never threw a pitch. They signed him. He never quite made it. Just busy. A lot of stuff going on. We found out what he was doing in the meantime anyway. He is working for a Virginia car dealership. He's working for McQuaid Pontiac GMC in Forest, Virginia.

Fuck. Yikes. Yeah, he was, Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, though, he's the finance and business manager there. Our finance and insurance manager for the dealership. You got a guy convicted of embezzlement and put him on your finance team. Holy fucking what? They didn't know that, by the way.

They had no idea. No clue he was a fucking on probation. No clue he was embezzler. Nothing. They just were like hey you were on the yankees and have world series rings wow run our finance department do you mind do you have some free time literally what it was like and you look nice in a tie this is terrific come on in so he ends up of course uh being arrested for grand larceny yeah it's hard to take all that money to the bank when you're a

criminal well this he's convicted this is fucking disgusting for using a customer's money for his own use rather than for a warranty she thought she was buying what he took the extra money she paid for a warranty and just skimmed it off the top she got no warranty and then when her car was fucked up she came in and they're like you don't have a warranty she said i have a receipt i paid for a warranty and then this guy can put it in his fucking bank account unbelievable how crazy is that man you can't what a terrible move that's he is convicted of stealing $551.76. $550, man. And 76 cents, bro. What a scumbag move.

Is that a compulsion at that point? It's got to be for the fun, right? I would imagine so. It has to be you have to do it. That's why I said his fake childhood really would line up with his real adulthood. It really would. Shaking everything down. Maybe that's what really happened we don't know maybe you nailed it it's as good you know what that's what really happened there you go no it's gotta be but still that was satire everybody you cannot be upset or say it was libelous there you go we are comedians

i said it was funny anyway so it was funny it's funny or not, I meant it to be. That's what that means. So you don't have to like it for it to be satire. Anyway, so he the judge says, well, this can't be doing this. You're on probation. You, sir, may fuck off for real this time. One year in prison. How's that?

No kidding. Yeah. Let's slide those World Series rings off that you surely have sold by now and uh let's go to prison so uh he's serving his time while serving his time for this year it is found out from his probation officers no that he has been lying to them he his probation officers in this case don't know about his other cases, and he didn't tell them. Yeah. He has a grand larceny conviction for which he's on probation.

Never told him about that. He also has two DUIs in the last three years that he didn't tell them about. Convictions for fucking DUI. Doesn't tell him about that either. So the probation officers, he's already spending a year in bedford county jail here and uh now he has to uh he has to pay for this now uh the probation officers from charlottesville said that since november 1988 he withheld information about three arrests from them this is a violation of his probation and he is given an additional you sir may fuck off three years in prison for that

so now it's four years he gets out of bedford and he has to go serve three more down where the fuck he came from fed time fed time so he's fucked he just fucked himself hard how much how hard can you fuck yourself bro that is just he's good at it he's fucking good at it i mean it's ridiculous i don't even know what to cry of a prostitute yeah he doesn't know what to do he's being no he has no idea what to do um he goes to prison he does like three years in prison because he does this almost his whole year down there and then he ends up doing close to two for his probation violation they wanted him to pay for that shit so he moves out and uh he gets out of prison and moves down to bradenton florida uh-oh where are all the convicted felons go i assume i've heard a lot of bradenton

stories oh yeah oh big time well here he said he's gonna it's a new start i'm good now new start he said when i get on this plane yeah i'm gonna be like sinatra i'm gonna take that big bird and i'm gonna fly i'm going i'm gonna take off and it's a it's like it never happened before yeah you know i'm good i'm fine good now so he gets all his luggage he's ready to go and he's walking through the airport. And who does he run into, Jimmy? Swinging his Popeyes. Who's he run into? Adam, the arugula lover, Pac-Man Jones. Arugula connoisseur.

And he says, how is it you've come to arrive here? I don't understand, see, because you were clearly helping a lady out is what you were doing. She's giving you this money for this warranty, which you know is not a good value. That's what it is. So you're putting it in what I can understand as an escrow for her and for another time. So that way when she came back and said, my car is broken, you can be like, well, I have this escrow money. You can get it fixed. So, you know, the system is set up against you is what I mean.

With your whole everything, it's wrong. It's rigged, yeah. From Steinbrenner down. I'm sorry. This is crazy. Sir, take my Popeyes and hit the nearest person. I can't take it anymore. I have to go.

Poof. In a puff of arugula, he's gone. And Ken is holding some Popeyes and very confused he has no idea there's leaves falling to the ground through the smoke as long as i didn't get a turnpike it'll be all right but he did say it smells delicious and he begins to eat it right then because who the fuck wouldn't you know it smells so good so he's down there 1999 okay new life he's down there out of prison he's got a girlfriend florida bradenton for living girlfriend he's doing great until 1999 when he is accused of identity theft

he's that guy he's that guy he used his girlfriend's identity stealing from his own girlfriend now not even a stranger this time Yeah, his girlfriend's identity to falsify credit card applications so he could lease and insure a 1998 Nissan Pathfinder, and so it was new at the time, and to create a checking account from which he forged checks. Yeah, my name's Teresa. What? In her name.

That is fucked. How do they give? What the fuck? What's her name is Teresa. What? And her name. That is fucked. How do they give? What the fuck? What's her name? Shit. They don't say because she's a victim of the crime here. So they leave her out of it. But yeah, he's 45 of 4,500 blocks.

60th Street South or 60th Street Court. I don't know what the fuck. That's a crazy address. Yeah. Yeah. Florida has fucked up addresses. So he's held in the fuck. That's a crazy address. Yeah. Yeah. Florida has fucked up addresses. So he's held in the jail in lieu of $32,000 bail. He's charged with five counts of scheming to defraud, nine counts of uttering a forged instrument, and four counts of grand theft.

That's a lot. That's a lot. He's accused of, like I said, using this lady's woman to lease a Pathfinder. He got insurance. He obtained numerous credit cards and a checking account the spokesman for the manatee county sheriff's office said quote she had no earthly clue what was going on oh he's such a dick he's such a fucking asshole he ran up more than fifty thousand dollars in unpaid leases and credit card bills between march 1998 and may 1999 wow just turn this poor lady

upside down and shook her fucking pockets out for change man um police began investigating after being tipped by law enforcement agents in virginia they were like we heard this guy's down there just keep a heads up literally just keep an eye on that one um an acquaintance of clay's called the police in virginia after she learned that clay had leased a truck in her name and manatees as she called and then he ended up being arrested for it so five counts of forgery five counts of scheming to defraud nine counts of uttering a forged instrument four counts of grand theft and uh yeah he could be sentenced to more than 20 years in prison if convicted on all the charges by who's he think he is anna delvey he really thinks he's anna delvey what it's like listen

there's nothing to do we don't have the option to deport you you're going to prison like it's not well we'll give her a sentence and then send her back to wherever the fuck she came from this is a different story do you know that that bitch still hasn't left yet? No, but she's in the process of, she's in the deport, in the deportion, like the baggage claim. She's going around on the belts. They just got to pick her up and toss her on a boat or something, right? She's filing stay after stay after stay. She's still here, that bitch.

Oh, she's full of shit and she'll milk every second out of it. They're trying to get her on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, I think now? No. There's nothing real about her what are you talking about she's not real nor a housewife nor in beverly hills nor rich nor anything she's just a liar she's just a lying german i don't understand her name is not even delvey she's a phony how have we handled lying germans in the past hundred years jimmy i very differently i really hope they get rid of her fuck you i hate her she's the fucking her and tinder swindler are the worst that's why we did them both the same time we did bad people the bonus so um now uh clay what he does he's trying

he agrees to plead guilty he's talking about He agrees to pay back his creditors. It's like you can, you know, on a payment plan and all this type of shit. He pleads guilty to using his ex-girlfriend's personal information to defraud three credit card companies. He's convicted of 24 felony counts altogether, including grand theft, fraud, and forgery. Just before the case went to trial, he decided to plead no contest to all the charges. Smart probably. To pay restitution to credit card companies, he defrauded.

The public defender representing him said, quote, he pleaded no contest, which means he thought it was in his best interest to plea and not go to trial. The prosecutor said that she was actually surprised that he didn't go to trial. Prosecutor said the witness who leased him the car and the witness who sold him the insurance were not located

and the defense knew that. So our case was mostly circumstantial. Yeah, but it was mostly far too strong. They're too strong. He's done this before and that the who he defrauded was going to get on the stand and be upset about it. And people were going to definitely side with her, and he was going to prison, period. So, yeah, he pleads to all this. He agrees to repay more than $40,000 by making payments of at least $200 a month. That won't take long. That won't take long, everybody. Don't worry about it. It's like 20 years. Holy shit. Good luck, American Express.

Fuck, man. And more than $40,000 to American Express and First Union Bank. The prosecutor said the victim's main concern was to get their money back. He had no family or friends in the courtroom. None? None. Not a one. Ouch.

Nothing. room none none not a one ouch nothing um he gets sentenced to you sir plus all the fines may fuck off 15 years probation oh boy that is a lot that's a lot of that will keep you in the system you fuck up you're going to prison for a long time apparently uh well i don't know we'll see here so july 21st, he's married. Okay. To a woman named Judy. Judy has a nine-year-old son named Alex. All right.

Alex gets taken away from them apparently here because of the situation going on at home and is with an adopted family. Okay. So in July of 2004, the family here, Daryl and Karina Burkle, are hiding because there's a court order transferring custody of the child back to Judy. And they don't think it's a safe environment for this kid back with Judy and Ken Clay. So they got an attorney to take on their case and they came out of hiding and they were they left the kid in an undisclosed location with relatives or something. So he couldn't be taken. Yeah. Judy, this is from the article, Judy, the child's biological mother, and her new husband, Ken Clay, lost custody of the child after a 2001 domestic violence call at the couple's Bradenton home that involved a stabbing. Somebody was stabbed with a child in the house.

Yeah. And they think they're fit parents. This is fucking crazy. Yeah, this is nuts. And he's a convicted felon a few times over. The Aiken family court judge, Peter Newsol, presided over a hearing and found that the Burkles had shown no reason why the Florida order transferring custody should not be carried out. Despite documented alcohol abuse, criminal convictions, and domestic violence in the Clay's home.

The Burkle say the custody problems began after they unknowingly missed a family court hearing in Florida. But the Burkle guy says, now that we have an attorney willing to help Alex, I'm willing to face whatever trouble I may be in. The important thing is that Alex is safe and that he stays safe. So, uh,

yeah, that's what they're doing. Uh, talking about it all they said they've been keeping themselves and the child hidden in various homes around the area they called the sheriff to say hey look you know everything's fine we're just not coming in because we don't believe in this and uh sheriff was like listen you gotta really follow the court order you know what the fuck so um anyway, the sheriff said, we want to open a dialogue with the father. I believe if we can do that, we can get this thing worked out. There's some issues we need to discuss with the man.

We have an order from a judge that we have to enforce. So they've been on the lookout looking for these people and their kid for weeks. And finally, they do that. They turn themselves in and all that sort of thing so are they gonna end up giving the kid back let's find out he says that he fears his son because ex his he's the kid's real father this is not an adoptive couple he's the kid's father this buck burkle guy judy clay is the mother it's his ex-wife and her scumbag boyfriend oh really yeah it's the ex-wife and its scumbag boyfriend it's

not just like a war to the state to these no no no no i thought i mentioned that but no it's a it's a it's his fucking kid okay his and her kid and now she has this dirtbag living in the house and there's all sorts of domestic violence and all this shit going on and he's like i want my kid and he's having a hard time doing this so um, yeah, they said we just want to protect Alex so much. So Burkle says that he fears for his son because his ex-wife Judy and her new husband, former New York Yankees pitcher Ken Clay, have a documented history of domestic violence. It includes one occasion where Judy Clay allegedly stabbed her husband during a 2001 altercation that took place while Alex was in their Bradenton home. Wow. After the stabbing,

Daryl Burkle won custody of Alex in the same Florida court that now says he must release the child. After having full residential custody of Alex since 2001, they said their current difficulties began when they missed the court hearing, which we talked about. So they talk about his legal past, Ken. And,

uh, yeah, it's pretty fucking ridiculous. The attorney said, my folks are not going to let this case try this case in the paper. You don't need to keep putting it in there. They wouldn't return messages because they will not be doing so. So they're saying, OK, so they go to court and Daryl feel fears that he's going to be put in jail when he goes to court about it. But the appeals thing here

he is granted a victory here that gives him custody of his son and also avoided let him not be arrested after five days of running from the law of kidnapping a child of kidnapping the kid yeah because they said that you were in the end they said yes that the court order was wrong and this is unsafe so uh he said we're just so relieved our family's back together and there's no need to hide anymore so yeah alex uh he they had there was a like a deadline and everything when he was supposed to hand him over and he didn't um so the mother here or the stepmother karina she said i was so upset i was going to tell him our time was up when i got a call and found out it was all over.

We're all just so happy. We can go home now and Alex is going with us. So not bad. The sheriff said also our main concern from day one was protecting the well-being of the child. And we had to proceed very cautiously to make sure we didn't jeopardize that. And in the article, when it says former pitcher, former Yankees pitcher, they should say, calm down. He's stolen more money than he's made. Oh, by far. Yeah.

Calm down. He owes more in restitution than he fucking made. The other thing, he was going for that fifth season. He had to do the four full seasons in the league, which he didn't do because 77 was only a partial season. So he doesn't get his pension. No pension. That's the problem. He was back last year.

In 82 in spring training, he was saying, this is my year, I also get a pension this year, so this makes me feel better. And then they cut him and he never got shit. Oh, my. So he didn't stick around for that extra year to get that pension, and so he has no pension at all. His life sucks.

It does suck. So, yeah, the judge ended up striking the requirement from the proposed order, thus leaving Alex in custody of Burkle. So there we go. Anyway, there's that. So, I mean, Jesus Christ, he's stabbed by his wife. He's defrauding all these people. This fucking poor kid was living in fear with this guy. It's a mess right now.

There's no money. This fucking poor kid was living in fear with this guy. It's a mess right now. He's got no money. He has got also just a goddamn trail of victims and just people in his wake. He's getting Billy Martin fired. He's fucking everything up. I feel bad for all these people, Jimmy, all of them.

Not nearly as bad as I feel for Ken Clay, senior IT manager at Primera Blue Cross in Seattle, Washington. That's something he would do. Primera? Yeah, Primera Blue Cross. He went to Rutgers. Ken Clay, founder and managing partner at Corinthian Capital Group, LLC in New York City. Whatever the fuck that is. Sounds like a rich guy.

Ken Clay, vice president at VSP Global uh global provider services in sherwood arkansas ken's vision coverage oh it is it's vision insurance yeah hey there you go you probably have that ken clay you can thank ken clay ken clay broker slash owner at clay's castle real estate oh this poor guy it's not the same guy no i think you can use him winston salem north carolina no he went to wake forest university so no and then finally uh kenneth clay who is a really uh established and um it's a lauded artist in uh the city of louisville kentucky who wrote a pretty cool book that i kind of want to fucking see here. Two Centuries of Black Louisville, a Photographic History. It's fucking cool looking as shit.

I want to get this book. What's his name? His name's Ken Clay? Ken Clay, yeah. Do you think he's related to Muhammad Ali? He could be. I'm not sure. I wonder if he is.

Clay is a pretty common last name. Yeah. It's in the south. But in Louisville and a humanitarian, that's kind of. He's an artist. Yeah, that's a good point. 2005, Ken's moving on, gets a new job, Jimmy. Yeah, yeah.

He's going to start over. Oh, yeah. Clean slate, out of prison, good now. Yeah. Stab wounds are healing, everything's fine. Gets a new job working for the Copy Concept Copy Machine Company. Oh, no. He's a month and a half.

He's working there for about he only made one sale so far. He's not doing too great. Those are expensive. You can get some good commission. They're pricey. So after only having one sale and having people kind of tell him you need to try harder and you need to do all this shit. And, you know, he wants to make money as well. And's not making any money he falsifies a sales order for a toshiba e-studio 3511 copier that's a nice one that would have landed him a 7500 commission how

fucking much does that cost probably 20 000 god that's crazy so he forged the supposed buyer's signature on three different documents wow for that um and uh yeah the jury on this one's going to convict him after a one-day trial but that's not even the fun part okay workers at the company knew he was a former major league pitcher but didn't know he's ever been arrested ever knew nothing of his criminal history and it is 2005 it's not like google exists oh wait yeah it does yeah you can just look up people yeah yeah um it was all on there could have looked it up could have went to the library looked up newspapers could have done a lot um back then he said that uh uh the the manager here said quote he had one other sale that I know of, and that was it.

So, yeah, he forged and shit. Two sales, and one of them was fake. One of them was fake. The manager also said, I don't know why he thought he could get away with that. Like, at some point, we're going to need the rest of the money from these people. Or we're going to deliver the product, and they're not going to have a fucking clue why they have it. What's that now? He was hoping they'd just be like, I guess bring it in and we'll pay for it i don't know sure that's a great salesman now before this goes to trial he is offered a plea agreement which he's lucky to get with all the shit that he's done

this plea agreement gives him six months in the county jail six which is very way less than he should have so in county too so he says no i don't think so not doing a trial going to trial so a jury convicts him of a grand theft in a scheme that is the dumbest shit he never even got the money that's the thing they caught him before the fucking check even showed up yeah like he got nothing out of it it's the dumbest attempted shit ever it's so it's like he went in to a bank with like a bright yellow plastic squirt gun and was like give me all your money and they're like they're like i know that's not a real gun and then he ran away it's the same fucking crime

it's so stupid but you're you're busted the prosecutor said she didn't know what the she didn't know what she would recommend for a sentence this time uh she in an application for a public defender clay listed his bank account at 300 and his monthly income at 1170 dollars ouch and yeah late 2000s there um his and that's his major league baseball players association pension oh he did get the pension after all okay he ended up barely getting it okay that's what he's making that um the prosecutor says you sir may fuck off now the pro the judge i mean the prosecutor recommended a sentence of three years yeah prosecutor said how about this this is circuit judge rick defuria he says you sir may fuck off have five years he's defurious i like yeah he's rick defurious

i like you less than she does so fuck you jessica zach was being a little too nice here fuck this shit so even at eleven hundred dollars a month he's still making the same money he made in the league almost yeah but so it's 27 years later is the only problem it's times have changed a bit yeah so he goes to prison that is you know then he 2006-7 he gets sentenced or whatever he doesn't get out of prison till february 14th 2012 wow he does like foreign change in prison man almost the whole thing almost all bit you can't let him out he's just gonna fucking fuck up again so he's released from prison and guess what he does jimmy what is it he's gonna break his last crime and sports rule and move back home to lynchburg where you know everything's

gonna be fine now right yeah but uh he hasn't been arrested in about 10 years though so that's good i mean good for you ken but uh wow uh he's a forgotten person and well until today i guess but he's uh now he's gonna have a few hundred thousand people that know all about him but uh not the first part because that's not true but the rest of it all true can't get enough there's a ton of baseball cards from that's where he lives now lynchburg yeah i guess that's where he lived in 2012 who the hell knows where he is now i mean he could be anywhere but in jail in lynchburg we have no idea he could be running the jail lynchburg he could be the judge he could be the fucking justice of the peace there we have no clue could be the mayor we don't

know he could be faking being a justin's rep and just stealing money for class right just walking around with an old tattered catalog they're like it says it says 2003 on this he's like yeah we've had the same one for like two i just don't it's don't worry about it it's all the same it's all the same shit you're not graduating high school anyway you're getting a little ring it's been the same since the 60s just order one come on only cash i'm sorry no no no no square no none of that shit cash venmo get the fuck out of here cash so yeah you can buy his baseball cards and all that shit or just uh you know watch out because he could be looking to scam you at any moment you never know so keep an eye out for him because he's out there. Wow. In his 70s now?

Let's see. He's born in his 60s. He's born in 54. Yeah, he's 68 years old. So hopefully he's slowed down maybe. Yeah. I would hope. Mix some Social Security in with that pension. Give him some less reason to steal.

I don't know. That's all we can hope for. Either way. He's just stealing from the penny gas stations. Oh, you know he is. Yeah, he's like, you don't need that. These kids already have muscular dystrophy i don't know why what 50 cents is going to do for them and he swipes it so that's ken clay

everybody that is a crazy story and uh yeah especially well the first like 35 minutes of it wasn't even real but the rest of it was pretty crazy too yeah anyway that's ken clay hope you enjoyed it if you did tell us all about it let us know if this was your first episode don't don't because if they're normally 100 factual so these are the best ones just but these are fun anyway check that out give us a review five stars would be great also hit us up on our site there shut up andmemurder.com where you can get all your tickets to live shows. There is one Crime and Sports live show with tickets left, and that is August at the Ace of Spades in Sacramento.

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We'll make it extra enthusiastic, as a matter of fact, next week. Because you did wait for it, and we don't like making anybody wait for that kind of shit. But you will get your shout-out, and you will get two amazing episodes every other week as well. You'll get access to crime and sports and small town murders bonus episodes. This week, the two you're going to get for your Patreon subscription is going to be number one, the secret life of Tiger Woods, where we discuss all of his dirty down low shenanigans that he was up to. Every waitress he was hooked up with and try to none of us had any fucking clue yeah all of this what ended up what resulted in him being on television with a black eye and a smashed windshield and his wife of the golf club in her hand what the fuck happened we're gonna find out and uh from what i've read so far and what i've looked

into it it is um he's lucky he didn't get worse because he was wow a lot of people's wives would definitely have fucking injured the shit out of him you want you like golf motherfucker okay let me show you my five iron instead he crashed an escalade into a fucking tree and a fire hydrant on his property terrible terrible shit and then for um for small town murders we have one of the favorites of everyone the prisoner dating game everybody that's right jimmy is going to pick from he's got beautiful wonderful people here we're gonna line up four lovely bachelors four lovely bachelorettes for him uh he will not be able to see what they did and they're all going to be these are the this is the violent felon edition nobody that's in there for like drug

possession or anything this is and I look for bad ones too they suck the scum de la scum James there is usually one one out of the four there's usually one that's not the worst yeah one that's a monster and two that are just awful

that's the way it works usually and one of them's like a pedophile usually sometimes. So either way, Jimmy's got to pick that. It's basically a shell game of avoid the pedophile. He doesn't want to pick the kid diddler. He doesn't know what they did until after he picks someone and then I tell them what he did. All he gets to see is not even their picture, just how they can charm him through their posting. It's so much fun and he always picks the wrong person.

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murder.com is where you send that. That is the place where it'll actually get filed away and it won't get lost in the Twitter feed. So definitely do that. And keep coming back and seeing us. I'm excited. That was fun.

We didn't get to do baseball all the time, so baseball's great. And also, if you want to find us anywhere else, find the host, you can do that through our site, shutupandgivememurder.com. us anywhere else, find the host. You can do that through our site. Shut up and give me murder.com. God damn it. We're there. Yeah.

And by the way, any questions about the staggering of the episodes or whatever, listen to the beginning of the show where we explained it thoroughly. I do not have the energy to explain it again after that long ass weekend of live shows. And it's been a lot after tweet after a lot of look, we're doing our best. We're trying. Yeah, that's all. With that said, God damn it. Live from the crime and sports studios.

We will see you next week. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.