Crime in Sports - #305 - Rocky Is Real - The Bloodiness of Chuck "The Bayonne Bleeder" Wepner

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

This week, we check out the life of the man who inspired Sylvester Stallone to write the Rocky character. He came from the streets, liking a barroom brawl even more than a fight in the ring. In boxing, he was known mainly for two things, being the bloodiest fighter, maybe in boxing history, and getting a shot, out of nowhere, to fight Muhammad Ali, for the heavyweight championship of the world! Just like Rocky! He spends the rest of his life selling liquor, legally, and for a little while, selling cocaine, illegally. A federal investigation brings an end to that, but years later, he's in hot water, again, this time for being involved with memorabilia counterfeiting!! The crazy never stops with this guy! Be tapped, out of the blue, to fight for the heavyweight title, become the inspiration for the Rocky franchise, and love to fight, any time, any place with Chuck "The Bayonne Bleeder" Wepner!! Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!!  Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail]  Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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This week, the two episodes you're going to get. First of all, the downfall ofby knight we're going to talk about the college coach national champion huge hero to the state of indiana and then he then he wasn't anymore very quickly gave it up and he was the same guy same guy for a long time and we'll tell you kind of how things changed and his how his temper got a little too much for even the administrators there and then for small town murder something everyone will be interested in we are going to talk about a 20 almost 30 year old documentary i swear it's relevant it's so relevant though it's amazing on hbo max called lock up rikers island and it's it's the it's the quintessential jail documentary

really it's the one that everything else springs from yeah it's the seed it's the it's the quintessential jail documentary, really. It's the one that everything else springs from. It's the seed. It's the ground zero. It's where it all comes from. Patient zero is what I meant to say. So that and we'll talk about other prison stuff, too. We're going to compare different states, maybe different countries. We'll get into it. It's a lot of stuff.

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That said, let's get into this. Let's go. Because it's a wild one and a lot of stuff going on with Charles Wepner. You know who that is, Jimmy? I only know now because I'm aware. Chuck Wepner. Otherwise, I would have no fucking clue. I it was uh judge wapner so i i thought you knew who he was so i brought it up before the show and i was like i have no idea i didn't blow the surprise because you didn't know

who he was but his chuck wepner is what he goes by his nickname and it's one of the better nicknames in the history of boxing or really any sport the bayonne bleeder oh how great is that bad he's from jersey huh he's a jersey guy oh he's all jersey man he is mr new jersey james oh it's from this little show called the sopranos if you've never seen it it's terrific maybe once or twice so he is all bayonne all the time, Mr. Wepner here. He, Jesus Christ, the Bayonne Bleeder is his name because he looks like in every fight like he's been fighting for 48 rounds. Just a water faucet? Swollen, cuts everywhere.

The amount of stitches this man gets over the course of his career. People are astonished by it. They're like, he loves him. Is that right? Oh, it's amazing. So he's february 26th 1939 oh back there yeah this is i mean pre-american involvement in world war ii right yeah quite the elderly fella yeah he's up there so he's born in new york city that's where the hospitals are and he grows up lives bay he's the bayown guy i mean that's that's who he is here he's about across the river it's right there it's right there he's about a year old when his him and his mom he's raised by his mother single mother which back then was

relatively rare not rare rare but much more rarely frowned upon single parent is now yeah single parent who cares but back then it was like oh, did your husband, did he die in the service? Was he killed in the service? They didn't understand. Like maybe people didn't get along or something. Or maybe he's a drunken scumbag or who knows what the hell's going on. There's a lot of factors that can go on. So he's about a year old when they move in with his grandparents, his mother's parents, obviously.

And he was raised in a living room here that was a converted coal shed. That's where his mom and he lived, in a converted coal shed until he was 13 years old. So he grew up in a coal shed they made into, you know, a single room. a single room inhabitancy situation here. So he grew up. This was on 28th Street near Hudson Boulevard, which is now Kennedy Boulevard, if you're from that area and wondering where we're talking about.

So he's one of two boys. He's got a brother. And they grew up in the projects. I mean, he grows up in the projects. It's very blue collar old school you know come over here come over here i'll break your nose there buddy like shit like that whatever whatever stickball fucking tough kid with like kangle hat fucking fantasy you have of an old school that's what we're talking about marching to the malt shoppy

to get a piece of bazooka joe to steal a piece of bazooka Joe with the other fellas. We're going to go down there and we're going to rip them off, see? Yeah. In the summer, we're going to crack open a fire hydrant. What are those other kids doing on that other street there? I saw them. We're going to steal that. That's a pretty nice stickball Batty's got there.

I think we should take it. What do you think? Wait till he puts it down to run to first. Skinny, you run in there. Grab it. You run away. Skinny. Skinny, he's the fast one of the run in there, grab it. You run away. Skinny. Skinny, he's the fast one of the group.

You go in there. You run away. Chunky, you stand by. In case they go after him, you knock him down. Okay, let's go. But Chunky's skinny and Skinny's chunky, so it's a very weird time. It's a strange time in the world here. Then Curly, you rub your bald head on him.

It's a fascinating time. So wepner there they grow up in the projects he takes up boxing at first when he's nine years old um but and then he sort of in the gym and sort of on the streets he likes to fight whether it's you will hear about it he likes to fight in bars he likes to fight on the street he likes to fight you know in the ring he likes to fight in bars he likes to fight on the street he likes to fight you know in the ring he likes to fight wherever he's likes to fight guy he's a likes to fight guy he's six foot five 225 pounds a big giant right fucking block head on him that can take any amount of abuse and not be it'll bleed but that's about it so he says like this, quote, I was skinny when I was a kid. And one day the toughest guy in the neighborhood stole my bike.

I got mad and beat him up. Then I became the toughest guy in the neighborhood. That's how that works. That's how that works. Yes. He said hierarchy. He's a very good athlete. Good in multiple sports.

Plays basketball for his high school. Plays basketball for the bayonne police athletic league as well a lot of yeah a lot he's a very good basketball player actually fascinating and at six five back then you know in high school not everybody's six five back then so right you know it's not not too bad so he ends up playing on the basketball team in school and and fighting on the streets and uh he said quote this was a tough town with a lot of tough people from the docks and the naval base, so you had to fight to survive. Jesus Christ.

Jesus. A bunch of sea people. Yeah. Facial scars and shit. These are bad men. I've been on the sea for a week and a half, and all I want to do is beat up a child. Just coming off big scars on their face. I want to get laid and beat up a kid.

Come over here, kiddo. It makes it sound like the 1800s. That's kind of what it was like back then. This is tough shit, man. So he ends up opting to join the Marines after high school. Yeah, late 50s, he goes into the Marines. Figures it's a way to get out of the neighborhood. Number one, you can see the world.

And a lot of times back then, that's why kids without the, we don't realize it now because there's like the age of cable television in the 80s and 90s and then the internet in the 90s and through now, like you can kind of see stuff, you know of stuff, and you feel like you're more connected with the rest of the world. Sure. Back then, where you could walk to was your whole world. There was no- It's your world, yeah. There was no anything. So people used to join the service just to see the world. See the world.

Yeah. Literally. Kids would do it just to get off of their farm because they didn't want, you know what I mean? Just to get off the farm, just to get out of their farm because they didn't want you know what i mean just to get off the farm just to get out of their neighborhood just to get right that's that's an adventure it's something to do like because they saw pictures of an advertisement to hawaii in the newspaper when they'd hear from their dads and their uncles and how you know the ones that survived the wars they were in they were talking about nostalgia is an amazing thing it is people would even have nostalgia for war like someone after world war ii will tell you what a great time they'll tell

you stories and we did this and we did that and they don't tell you france is they don't tell you about that time their friends brains ended up all over them they had to clean them off their shirt like they don't mention that part of it because nostalgia filters out psychologically yeah that's what nostalgia is your brain filters out the shit that's why we all think it was better before people that grew up in the 50s oh it's so much better back then no it wasn't it sucked it sucked let's be honest the entertainment sucked couldn't do anything couldn't go anywhere it was very stiff everybody was fucking elvis couldn't be shown from the waist down what are we talking about here that wasn't better i'm sorry like if you think that was better we're different kinds of fucking people

you're just filtering out the bad time yeah yeah you know what i mean we filter it out yeah yeah so everybody does that so every era is the best whether it was the depression the dust bowl you remember the the good stuff. So anyway, that's what kids did. They'd go out on an adventure. That was the whole point and to get the hell out of here. And also, yeah, you hear the stories from the people who survived the wars about how great it was and their nostalgia. That sounds good.

That's what I'm going to do. I'll make friends. I'll go out there. If you're in Bayonne, though, you just got to look across the horizon. You can see the city and know that there's a whole lot better places right there. You would think so, wouldn't you? That's the thing. You would think so, but that feels like it might as well have a wall around it and be a fortress of where you don't belong.

Have you ever seen Saturday Night Fever? Yes. That's the 70s, and the whole movie is about manhattan is this fucking walled off yeah fortress oz and you can't get into it it's you can walk to it literally across the bridge there's a fucking walking lane like you don't even need a car to get the other part is like if you if you do want to join the service and go see the world and go see like tropical things that is something that new york city is not there is nothing tropical about that shit and back then you'd think to travel that was exotic to travel you couldn't travel anywhere that wasn't in a car in like the 40s you could but it was a real thing like but if

the government was going to take you places fucking cool like you thought that was cool yeah so there are people around this country and around the world that travel to where you live to see how great it is. And you're like, I want the fuck out of here. Yeah, you want to go. Remember the small town murder episode we did in Fishkill, New York, and I was explaining how I grew up 60 miles from there and people were like, might as well be 10 million miles. I couldn't possibly go there. I guess I'll just, you know, do what I'm doing here and stay. What the fuck is wrong with you people that was my point it's a weird thing through the woods here

when the concrete jungle is right there when they grow up and shit they're like you know oh what can i possibly do i guess i just got to get the shittiest job i can find here and stay here forever no you don't you don't have to there's opportunity there so guess what's there fucking wall street 60 miles from here something fuck i mean maybe if you don't want to be a soulless twat you could do something better but it'd be an evil shitbag fucking scummy corporatist but that's another story manipulating other people's money to make yours but yeah yeah oh don't get me started i hate them too don't get me started you I hate him too. Don't get me started. You know how I go off on a fucking rant about CEOs, CEO worship.

The CEO worship is my new, that's my thing that I can't imagine. That's your new thing you loathe? Yes. I don't understand it. There is not a CEO, I will tell you this right now. I know people, everybody has their favorite little billionaire. It's a weird thing that people have. Everyone has their favorite billionaire.. It's a weird thing that people have. Like they, everyone has their favorite like billionaire. Like you have their baseball card.

Yeah. I'm sorry. This is what I mean. I'm sorry. This has nothing to do with Chuck Wepner. He ends up becoming a member of the boxing team in the Marines. You know, he's a huge guy, boxing team. And he becomes, he has a reputation for being able to take a punch. He's iron jaw.

I love that rep, though. Is what he's known as. That's this guy. This is the guy who's not known for talent. He's not known for ability. He's the guy who's known for taking the most punches in the face and keeping coming forward. I love that. That's his rep.

So he's a hard boxer. When you watch him fight fight he's hard not to like because his he looks awkward he doesn't look like he's perfectly skilled but you're like jesus this guy just keeps coming yeah you know you have to respect him he's the united united airlines gate attendant yeah just yeah not gonna give up just keeps coming take some bleeds and keeps coming that's perfectly encapsulates flying united by the way that video i saw it last night when i got off a united flight and i was like yeah yeah man i get it yeah i get it i get it i am i've ever i'm having a similar issue with red-jacketed delta people also after that Cincinnati flight.

I certainly get it. I want to fight them too. She started telling us about her day. Pardon? Excuse me? Listen to mine, ma'am. There's a hundred people in here who have been smelling shit for the last two hours in a fucking locked tube. Don't you fucking get on here and tell us about your day, twat.

We're going to fucking rumble. You're having a tough one. I will give you a swirly in that shit bowl. Don't fucking fucking get on here and tell us about your day, Twat. We're going to fucking rumble. I will give you a swirly in that shit bowl. Don't fucking tempt me. I swear to God. Want to have some blue hair, Marge? Keep talking. Oh, boy.

Yeah, we've had interesting air travel. So anyway, he becomes military champion at one of the air bases where he's at, which, you know, I mean, he's a big, giant guy. is where he's at, which, you know, I mean, he's a big, giant guy. He ended up, now, I don't know if this is true or not, but later on a Sports Illustrated article says that he, he says that he saved the lives of three Marine pilots pulling them from burning airplanes. Really? Which is very possible, and he's a giant guy,

so he could totally yank somebody out of somewhere and carry them off, I'm sure. Were they planes he was on, or does he just like? No know they fucking were on fire and he looks for where they come how many planes have you seen that have been downed well i guess it's an air base so if a plane lands and has a problem and maybe it's i don't know catches three times jewel thing maybe he's very on the spot maybe they all landed at the same time on fire there was a real problem with one day one day they put the wrong thing in did somebody oh fucking rubbing alcohol you put in there i wonder why they're on fire use fuel next time jesus christ they keep coming down jesus they're falling out of the sky in a burning flame i'm exhausted pulling these guys out of these

heaps jesus christ. So, yeah. He fights in the Marine Corps, wins the heavyweight championship of the Cherry Point, North Carolina base. Okay. There he is. He leaves the service after a few years, does his time, and he gets a job as a bouncer in Bayonne. That'll do. So, now he's a Marine champion boxer who's you know at the door so this is not the guy you want to get thrown out of the bar by probably no no he tears apart planes and pulls people out of a drunk guy doesn't have a chance tonight isn't that what you pictured too i picture him ripping

the hatch off the top of the thing like it won't even open he He's like, rah, and then throws it. He just opens the whole thing with his hands. Head butts it and breaks through the glass. So he said that all along he said, quote, he realized eventually, quote, it was more fun to start fights than stop them, he said. What? He liked being in fights. And the whole point, a good bouncer isn't supposed to want to fight. in fights and the whole point a good bouncer isn't supposed to want to fight they're supposed to want to stop a fight and get people to leave in the easiest quietest least property destructive way possible that's the fucking job really but he loves bouncing so much this isn't roadhouse

you know he loves bouncing so much he creates incidents to bounce yeah oh i know i was a bouncer and i work with guys like that did they do, God. Look at this motherfucker being an asshole all night. I'm going to go bump into him. And they go bump into him. And then they look at him. What the fuck are you looking at? Get out. I didn't do anything.

Oh, yeah. Next thing you know, they're bouncing their fucking head off the ground. What the fuck? He came at me. And you're like, well, I mean. I mean, you created a situation for somebody to come at you. Well, you're in a job where it's like okay to fight at your job. So if you like fighting. That's the actual title let you literally don't have to do anything else.

I remember I'd stand there for four hours and then get in a fight real fast and then stand there for another three hours and then walk waitresses to cars and then go home. That was your whole fucking night. What a job description. It's a weird job. So, you know, your whole time, four hours, you're just like, well, someone starts fighting. I'm gonna fuck them up. That's it. Like you're just like well someone starts fighting i'm gonna fuck them up that's it like you're other people having a good time they're trying to get laid you're just like you're sober and ready to fucking kick people's asses so it's you know not good

it's bad stuff um i was more of the lazy thing like let's just see how it works out yeah and then if they get mouthy let's knock them let's knock them down otherwise i mean really let's calm down a little bit so he joins the uh golden gloves at that point because he said i want to fight he the gold gloves is amateur boxing he joins at 24 kids are like 17 well there's age classes but i mean the most of the you know ones, they're 18 years old, these kids. They're kids. 24, yeah, it's a smidge late to be beating the shit out of kids. Yeah, so he fights a shitload of amateur fights.

Here's one where in 1964, the championship match at the 64 Gold Gloves Novice Class Heavyweight Division, and he fights James Sullivan, who sounds as Irish as it gets. I mean, that's that old fighter. he fights James Sullivan, who sounds as Irish as it gets. I mean, that's that old fighter. And it's a three-round fight. Goes the distance, but he wins by decision. So Chuck says,

I was successful, but I wanted to start getting paid for fighting, so I turned pro. And here it goes here. He becomes pro in 1964, and he's fighting around the Northeast, as we'll talk about. And he becomes very popular, because he's that around the northeast as we'll talk about and uh he becomes very popular because he's that guy i mean that area of the country northeast in really everywhere but for

some reason the northeast if there's like a scrappy guy who'll take shots in the face and keep coming that's the guy i mean people just fucking that's the rocky story as we'll talk about i mean people love that feels like he represents me well that's rocky marciano was the that's him rocky marciano would get you know he'd take two to give one that was his whole fucking thing so that's kind of what people respect around here so he's fighting all over his first fight is in august 5th 1964 in bayonne at the veteran stadium in Bayonne versus George Cooper oh yeah who this is also his pro debut

so there we go Gary's brother he's dances on into the ring it was hard to hit him that's why I took three rounds to start hitting him the first two years this tap dancing motherfucker you're swinging at him he's singing in the rain you're like what I know that's Fred Astaire but still it's close enough all I could think of that's all i could think of so uh yeah he's very

debonair and dapper george cooper coming in here super duper super duper um this is a knockout in the third round this is why gary didn't fight he didn't want this to happen to him gary wants no part of this no part one and oh for chuck next up he's in an undercard match at madison square garden in 64 already this is the old madison square garden i believe if i don't think the new one opened till the late 60s so the new one was in place of the bus station this is the old madison square garden right by there and yeah not quite the same type of place but um this is versus rudy pavisi and it's his debut as well. Hell yeah.

Oh, boy. Well, not as well. Chuck already fought a fight, but this goes all four rounds. It's a four-rounder. Chuck wins on points. He's 2-0. Next up at the Sunnyside Gardens in Sunnyside, Queens, which is another. These are all WWF-day, like old-time locations that they used to run back in the day.

The day is over now. Yeah, well the day so when they were the day is over now yeah well this is when they were the wwf and shit like back now when they were doing this well well before vince jr took over and everything so he fights everett copeland this night who sounds everett copeland sounds like a man like you know who handles your financial affairs oh i have everett copeland. Doesn't it? Yeah. It doesn't sound like a man who's going to beat the shit out of you or anybody else. His first and last name sound like a law firm.

Everett and Copeland. Everett, Copeland, you know, Mercer and Goldblum. That's like the that's the law firm. He is one six and one. So maybe he should study the law cause he's not fighting very well. You're not good at this law. No, but it goes all six rounds and it turns out to be a draw. So wow. This guy, I don't know if he knew how to tie up or what it was, but, uh, it's a draw and he's a two Oh, and one now for Chuck.

Next up another Madison square garden undercard match in December of 1964 versus Jerry Tomasetti. Oh, Jerry Tomasetti's coming in the ring. Hold on. Fucking guy. Hold on a minute. I'm finishing my fucking scoongeal. What's wrong with you people? You're fucking rushing me.

I got that. Let me take my fire. I got an apron on. Oh, my fun goal. I got to get it in the ring with this fucking guy now. With some bump from New Jersey. Jerry Tomasetti. There he is.

Orchete Tomasetti. Jerry Orchete Tomasetti. I like that. He's a tough guy. That's good. So Jerry Tomasetti's three and one. And this goes all four rounds. Wepner knocks him down in the first round, and it goes to the decision of four rounds, and Chuck wins the unanimous decision, making him 3-0-1.

Next up, back in Sunnyside Gardens in January of 65, so he's fighting almost every month here. No doubt. He fights Ray Patterson, who is 10- 1 and 0 coming in not floyd patterson ray patterson um this fight goes all six he knocks patterson down in the second round wins a split decision though on here for chuck on points 4 0 and 1 for chuck chuck better stop relying on the judges that's what i'm saying this is crazy next up everett copeland again let's fight and fighting him again the next month. We already fought Everett Copeland.

Why are we fighting him? Get into this trilogy. I guess so. Yeah, it's back at the Sunnyside Gardens. It was a draw last time. Well, I guess that's how you build interest. And here it comes. This time, it's a draw again.

God damn it. Another draw. Can't beat this guy. Stop fighting each other. You guys are just done. You are too even, the two of you. You cancel each other out. That's it.

Evenly matched. It's over. So now he's 4-0-2. He hasn't lost yet. That's good. Next up, Sunnyside Gardens again. This one's a while. He goes from the last fight was in March of 65.

This one's in October 65. Okay. So he's building up to it. He fights Bob Stallings. This one's in October 65, so building up to it. He fights Bob Stallings, this one. Bob Stallings is 7'5 and 0. You know what his nickname is? Crawling. No.

Sprawling? A nickname's supposed to look cool on a poster, so it'd make people interested. No. You're close, though. Yeah. George. That's his nickname. His nickname's fucking George, man. Yeah. George. That's his nickname. His nickname's fucking George, man.

What the fuck? That's not a nickname. That's just a name. Call yourself George, then. Who's the Bob? Pick a fucking name. That's not a mechanical device or an animal of some kind that you can call. That's what a nickname is.

Oh, it's a mechanical, right? It's an actual mechanic. And all these guys, that's what they all are. And he's still, too. Chuck is still working at bars, and he's doing shit like that. That's what he's doing. Say this guy's name again with the nickname. I love it.

Bob George Stallings. George in quotes, of course. That's so good. Bob George Stallings. George in quotes, of course. Why is it so good? Bob George Stallings. That would be like if you were like Jimmy Frank Wissman, put in like parentheses. Fucking quotations. Or quotations. Jimmy Frank Wissman. Do I call you Frank? Who are you? What's your fucking name? I'm going to start doing it i'm gonna change my twitter handle tonight it'd be one thing if you if he was like if he had like a crazy

like a really long foreign name like if he was like alamahuda machad uh you know but it was but he goes by tim you know what i mean but call me tim and that would be one thing and you'd be like oh okay that makes a lot of sense. It's just easier for people. George is still one syllable, but more letters. It's not shorter. It's longer. Yeah, Bob and George are fine. Pitchers pick a fucking name.

So this fight goes all six rounds, and Chuck loses a split decision here. Okay. So he's 4-1-2. And the relying on the judges is not working now. No. I don't know what it is here but he is not he's not he's a very his technique is shit even later on he looks like a certain dominance he looks like a plotting guy who's coming at you he'll take a couple shots to be able to hit you with one that's what he's trying to do and he's not a real big knockout guy either

like he does not have he doesn't have a ton of knockout power against heavyweights in the ring so it's like i don't understand it here but he's also he's relying on the judges with the one knockdown that one knockdown should be enough to win the fight probably that's probably what's happening but if you don't knock him down then what you're gonna fucking lose and like the fight even the one where he knocked the guy down it was still a split decision so i mean that means the other guy probably outboxed him the rest of the time, but he knocked him down and probably landed a few more power shots that got him judged. Two of them were like, yeah, he went down, so I guess he wins. Yeah. Next up, in January 66, at Madison Square Garden, he fights Buster Mathis, who's actually becomes a—we've talked about him—great fighter.

He's 5-0 right now, Buster, and he's on the rise to a very, very successful career. That's a nickname, by the way, Buster. Now we're talking. That's better. I mean, Douglas used it, too, and it didn't work out so well for him, but he did beat Tyson. This fight is called in the third round. It's a TKO loss for Wepner herepner here yeah loses to buster mathis which

there's no shame in losing to buster mathis he's a great fighter yeah that's what happened so what year was that that was in the 60s huh 66 was buster done by 80 um yeah but didn't he i think he came back again he's one of those guys who tried to come back i believe fight of his probably we've talked about him before definitely talked about him a few times because he fought ron lyle too you know they were they came from the same same era here so that's the other thing too this is a parallel to the ron lyle story from a couple months ago here because this is uh we'll talk about it's the same type of deal so um yeah anyway four two and two for chuck uh the next month again which i mean he got beat by tkoKO'd by Buster Mathis,

maybe take a month off, but he ends up fighting the next month in February 66 at Sunnyside Gardens against Jerry Tomasetti again. God damn it. Fucking fight. I got to fight this Chuck guy again. I don't know what it is. This fucking guy is in my ear. I hear him.

It's like, hey, Chuck, Chuck. I hear it in my sleep. Probably in the 60s there wasn't near as many fighters as there was in the late 80s early 90s there was a shit ton of like low level fighters back then oh yeah a lot of them boxing was so though yeah boxing was insanely popular back then especially for live events there's a lot more boxing there's a lot more events going on everywhere so you needed more boxers same thing with wrestling there was 20 times the wrestlers there are now because there was jobs for all of them so yeah same deal muhammad ali made made boxing pretty fucking famous around this time too it was a

pretty big deal but it was huge before that though friday night fights and boxing was really really really in the you know in the dna of of amer America for the last 100, well, not 100, but 65 years probably at this point. Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis and Marciano. There's always somebody. And Patterson. Flight Patterson. But Ali made it like, he mixed wrestling in with it. That was the thing.

And he said it. He watched Gorgeous George. He saw that. And he saw the way a promo could get people into the building. He saw if you talk some shit and you were a colorful character, you could get people to buy tickets to you. Sure. Because either they want to see you win or they want to see you lose horribly.

Either way, they're buying a ticket. That's great. That's it. It's the same shit. You bought it. Who cares? God damn it, he's a genius. It's fucking genius.

The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. It's fucking genius. The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that. Bing! The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face.

I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave her alone. Okay, so, um... This is not a so. This is a period.

Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor. You married his cousin. His brother. That's not him. Yes, ma'am. I would make a beeline for the door.

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Follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts you can listen ad free on the amazon music or wondery app and uh so thomas setty here it's a unanimous decision all six rounds and he wins it though chuck does he's five two and two next up the west chester county center in april of 66 in white plains New York. I was just at that airport recently. Versus Cleo Daniels, who is 7'13 and 1". Jesus Christ. And Daniels is a last

minute substitute, by the way, too. He wasn't even supposed to be there. Get her off the call-in line. He wasn't even supposed to. Get her from predicting people's future. Hello there. I predict I punch you in the face so i miss those commercials she was they were great oh they were entertaining as shit i don't know so um and it's not offensive if you're imitating an actual individual person go fuck

yourselves and your mothers everybody with whatever implement you can find i don't really give a fuck so um anyway he wins this fight by pawn points in six rounds it goes all six wins by points six two and two for chuck he's on a tear chuck's on a tear next up in uh august of 66 in scranton pennsylvania oh the motherland there it is, everybody. That's where it all comes. The land of milk and honey. Scranton, Pennsylvania. Versus Johnny Deutch.

But, I mean, it's so great that he's Johnny Deutch. Deutch. Deutch. Is it Dutch or is it Deutch? It's Deutch. D-E-U-T-S-C-H. Oh, for Christ's sake. That is Deutch.

Deutch. You'd call it. 9-2-0-U-T-S-C-H. Oh, for Christ's sake. That is douche. Douche. You'd call it. 9-2-0 he is coming in. Chuck gets a TKO in the last round here, the sixth round, right before the bell. And he's 7-2-2. He's moving on up here. Got himself a knockout, though. That's awesome.

Yeah, TKO. Next up in, what is this, October of 66 at Madison Square Garden, he fights Dave Chenty. Hey, over here. That's a lot of Italians in this sport. In the Northeast? Boxing? Really? In the 60s?

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, real weird. All a bunch of guys going, I'm going to be the next Rocky Maggiano. Maybe not. Maybe not as good as I thought. That Italian was tougher than me that's all that's that's the toughest fucking guinea we ever had okay fine i'm gonna be the next jake lamotta fuck no not that mean damn it tough so uh he jave chent he's 11 9 and 0 so he's nothing not perfect

here and uh this goes all six rounds chuck wins on points he is 8 2 and two next up in 67 january 67 he fights at the catholic youth center in scranton oh boy oh buddy versus lou hicks and uh his nickname is louis george what is it with george being a nickname it's not a nickname why george george is a tough name i guess it's not sugar like a lot of guys have been sugar over the years but george what does george imply what happened back then i don't know i'd go butch before george wouldn't you back then i'm butch wisman i'm gonna kick your ass that's tougher than george george is mcfly ge George McFly. That's not a tough one. I mean, it's, I don't know.

Whatever. It's George Foreman. George. George Foreman. What was George then? He wasn't fighting yet, right? Not in the 60s. Soon. Soon.

He's coming soon. We'll find out here. All right. So anyway, he's 6'9 and 0, old Louis George, Lou Hicks. Chuck beats him. Unanimous decision all six rounds. 9-2-2 for the Chuckster here. It's respectable. Respectable.

Better than I could do. April 28, 67 at the Armory in Jersey City. Yeah, buddy. You can see Manhattan. It's right fucking there. It's right there. Literally you're on the shore. Versus Don McAteer. Yeah, McAteer.

19-8-2 the McAteer is. And he TKO's old McAteer. Yeah, McAteer. 19-8-2, the McAteer is. And he TKO's old McAteer in the seventh round. And McAteer, again, a last-minute substitute, though. So when you have that, a guy who's not been training for you and not sparring with people who are similar to you, not too impressive. So 10-2-2 for him, for Chuck. Next up, Madison Square Garden.

He fights Jerry Tomasetti again. Again? Is that the third? Jesus Christ, man. Yeah, I think it's a trilogy with Tomasetti now. He's 8-4-0 coming in. He gets TKO'd in the fifth, though. Oh, no.

Doesn't go off his feet, but the ref stops the fight. Okay. So he hasn't been, he still in his entire career has never been knocked down. An amateur's pro has never been knocked off his feet. He's one of those guys. But he loses TKO in the fifth round, so now he's 10-3-2. Next up, November of 67, he fights at the Plaza Arena in Secaucus, New Jersey. Oh, I'm in the weeds.

That bank job are out in Secaucus, right? So I'm in the weeds. I'm lying there. Never mind. I won't do the whole Goodfellas thing. Old Secaucus. Old Secaucus. I just remember that was always WOR.

The TV station was always from Secaucus, New Jersey. I'd be like, why? I was like, why are they there? Stop bragging. For what? You're not bragging. No. This is Charlie the Emperor Harris.

Hell yeah. The Emperor. Not bad. He's going to rule upon you. Like a scorpion. So far, all of his rulings have come down to a one, two, and one record. The Emperor. You're not ruling anything.

The Emperor. That's a terrible record for an emperor. He's an emperor of one man so far. Jesus. Is he fucking Nero? He's not doing great. The city's burned twice. That's not good. I understand.

I get it. We put it out twice and we got control of one man. What we've shown is we have the ability to put it out. That's the important thing let's focus on the positives we're coming around emperor come anyway emperor come around we're uh tko here win for chuck in the sixth round he's 11 3 and 2 now next, again, the Plaza Arena in Secaucus, New Jersey. He fights Clay Thomas, whose full boxing name is Showboat Clayton Thomas.

Hell, yeah. Here we go. That's a name. That's a pretty good spell for the 60s. Yeah, that's not bad. At least it's not just like Big Guy or some shit like that, as a lot of them were. Sparkling. Yeah. So he's 15-10-3, big guy or some shit like that as a lot of them were. Sparkling. Yeah.

So he's 15, 10, and 3, this guy coming in. And Chuck TKO's him in the third round. How about that? Which Thomas was knocked down twice and the ref called it off. So he beat this guy in the submission. Very good. 12, 3, and 2. Next up in Walpole in Massachusetts in April of 68, he fights Eddiedie vick okay you know what eddie vick's nickname

is not george dick johnny what is wrong with these people i get that it's the 60s they're not real into marketing yet but for fuck's sake look around look on boxing posters maybe they did they saw george a bunch of times and they were like, oh, they'll go with Johnny. I always like that. I guess nicknames are just other people's names. I suppose. So 11-11-3 is old Eddie Vick, and this fight goes the whole 10 rounds now. It's a split decision.

Damn it. Not even unanimous, but Chuck wins it. So 13-3-2. That was against a 500 fighter, though. That's not great. Next up, Se and two against, that was against a 500 fighter though. That's not great. Next up, Secaucus, New Jersey.

Again, he fights Mike Bruce, who's seven, 12 and one coming in. Goes all eight rounds. Mike, quote, Bruce Roberts.

So he is, this fight goes all eight rounds, wins on 14 3 and 2 next up madison square garden he fights forest ward for owen 2 coming in this guy was ward gets knocked down three times in the seventh triggering the three knockdown rule and uh that was in effect tko 15 3 and 2 for chuck next up the catholic youth Center again in Scranton. The draw of the Catholic Youth Center. Never underestimate it. And recently, now that place sounds fucking horrific.

Oh, God. Versus Mert Brownfield. Okay. Mert. M-E-R-T. He couldn't find a nickname better than Mert? I think his name's probably Merton, which if your name is Merton, you need a nickname as a boxer. Period. Mert isn't cutting it.

Mert Brownfield, 9-12, he is coming in. And this fight goes all eight rounds, but a decision win for Chuck. 16-3-2. Next up, felt for him, he fights Jerryerry tomasetti that's his favorite person to fight stop fighting jerry tomasetti well he lost last time to him so now he wants to get even for this he is 15 and 6 for uh tomasetti now this fight tko in the first round chuck beats his ass really chuck has had enough of tomasetti's bullshit. He's figured out how to fight you, sir. He has had

enough and not taken it anymore. Don't come back, you hear? You hear that? Get out of here, you son of a bitch and guinea. Go. Go back to your tomato sauce and your eggplant, you fucking dirty, greasy bastard. Dago, move. Done with you.

Kicked him out of the ring so he's 17 three and two next up felt forum which is at Madison Square Garden it's the 5,000 five side room baby this is March of 68 he fights or 69 I'm sorry not 68 he fights Robert de de de de Vila de Vila I guess you call it da Vila, who goes by, I was distracted by his nickname. This is a nickname, El Grandazo Di Cirquillo.

I don't know what that means, but that means something big, and it's better than. What's the middle name? Way better than George. What's the last word? El Grandazo Di Cirquillo. Cirquillo. Is that the middle name? Way better than George. What's the last word? El Grandazo de Circulo. Circulo. Is that the big circle? I don't fucking know what it is.

How the hell do I know? I just said I don't know what it is. It could be the big cactus for all I know. I have no idea. It might be. It might be, but it's a better name than George. I'll just say that. 2011 and 0 here for him.

So he's 2011. He might be the big circus, James. Maybe. I mean, there's a lot He might be the big circus, James. Maybe. I mean, there's a lot of people that speak Spanish that are probably. They already know. You fucking morons. You fucking dummies. Do not post about it.

We will know. I've already Googled. Leave me alone. The instant you, when you hear it, we've already know. We already know. Don't say, I know you already know. We already know. That's what we're saying.

It's like saying, are you hungry? No. Well, I know you already know. We already know. That's what we're saying. It's like saying, are you hungry? No. Well, I made you dinner anyway. I know you said you're not hungry, but here's a big meal. Well, I don't want a big meal because I'm not hungry. Thank you. Okay. So anyway, he beats El Grandazo Di Cerchillo, 18-3-2 now for Chuck.

It's a decision. Next up, back in Secaucus, New Jersey, which sounds like a punishment, versus Mike Bruce. What's his last name? Yeah, Mike Bruce. Is this the same guy? Is it Mike? Forest Ward. Mike Bruce.

Yeah, Mike Bruce. Here he is again. Bruce 2. Mike Bruce was 7-12-1 going into the last fight. He has not won a fight since. He now has 19 losses. He's been getting beat up for the last year and a half. Getting the shit beaten out of him.

Chuck beats him here again on points, and he's 19-3-2. Next up, they're in San Juan, Puerto Rico at Hiram Bithorn Stadium, which is where i believe the blue jays played a few weird like regular season games there once in a while down in puerto rico to see if that was viable like back in the 80s uh he fights jose roman who's known as king that's better king jose roman that's a or the roman king i don't know what the fuck he's going with, but 25-1. 20 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw for him. Goes all 10 rounds, this one does, with Chuck,

and it's a loss, though, on points. Uh-oh. 19-4-2. Next up, he fights a young guy, 3-0 he is coming in, Madison Square Garden in August of 69. Young guy you might have heard of later on, George Foreman here. This is his fourth fight, George Foreman. Oh, boy.

Just known as Big George back then. Is that it? That's it. Big George, but his name's George, so I'll let that one slide. Damn good name. Yeah, not bad. That's exactly what he is. Chuck gets TKO'd in the third round.

Of course he does. There's exactly what he is. Chuck gets TKO'd in the third round. Of course he does. There's no shame in that. This guy would go on to fucking be 41-0 or something before he fought Lee. You took cinder blocks from George Foreman? I give you all the credit, sir. That is incredible. You got in there with him. That's more than I'm doing.

I wouldn't do it today. No, fuck that. I don't care how old he is. I'm not fighting him. All he has to do is catch you once. You got to get close to him. Brain damage forever. Yeah, old or not, he'll fucking knock you out.

So 19-5-2 for Chuck. Next up, Felt Forum. Again, he fights Pedro Augusto, who is known as, his nickname is Schoolboy Augusto Ortiz. He just picked a different last name he just fixed it all made his last name his first name and then picked a different last name and then called himself schoolboy i don't know what the fuck's going on here not bad not bad he's 21 he's 20 and one though so i mean 20 wins one loss chuck beats him by unanimous decision. Wow. 10 in fucking all 10 rounds, unanimous decision. This is a big fight for Chuck.

It really is. And it makes him 25-2. So 20 wins. After 27 fights, he's already fought more rounds than Tyson will ever fight combined. Forever. Yeah, almost every fight goes the distance. He's got to be in a lot of trouble right now and probably has no clue and that's he doesn't for a long time that's the other thing too we said his defense is not you know there yeah spectacular he he puts his head in there you want to hit me then i get to

hit you that's how it works so i mean he's this is a lot of blows to the head to be taken so he fights uh 1970 january of 70 manuel manuel ramos uh who is uh pool garcito what is that i think that means you're a good fighter it's something to do with pugilist probably okay um just by the bulge in the beginning of it i'm gonna say i'm gonna go by the root word and take a wild fucking guess but maybe little little little fighter or something yeah but sito so but you know but i don't know because he's a heavyweight i don't know he's 22 9 and 2 there you go fuck i don't know anybody trying to uh decipher a spanish word based on just its yeah well i also look at, like, do I know, does this correlate to an Italian word that I know?

Right. Is the first thing I go to, that doesn't work. Then I go, okay, is there like a Latin root to this? Because I'll try to figure that out, what that is. Who knows? It could mean tiny dancer. We don't know. Maybe it does.

That would be amazing. Wouldn't that be great if his name is tiny dancer? Manuel the tiny dancer Ramos, a.k.a. George. That would be perfect. Just comes into Elton John's house. That's it. Over and over again. So this fight goes all ten rounds again.

Unanimous decision. Win for the Chuckster again here. 21-5-2. Now, next up, he gets a huge fight for him a huge fight against a guy who's well well well past his prime here um june 29th 1970 at the armory in new jersey he fights sunny liston is that right yes now sunny liston is his late, I think he's 38 years old at this point. It's over for Sonny Liston. I mean, he is fucking well past his prime.

Ali beat him five years ago. I mean, it was six years ago. It was that long ago. It was a fucking long time. Early 60s, huh? 65, I think that fight was, or 66 possibly at the latest. I mean, because Ali was in the Olympicsics in 64 right so i don't know would make sense i i love ali but time frames escape me entirely if i wasn't there i got no

fucking chance of remembering it no way i don't remember shit so liston is 49 4 and 0 wow even washed up oh yeah he was a he was a bad motherfucker and liston is the he's known as one of the heaviest hardest punching guys that's ever existed in the history of boxing and um after this fight wepner will need 72 stitches in his face what 72 stitches in his fucking face he'll need did liston use a knife? He cut him. Liston went in there and just whipped out a fucking butterfly knife. He started to just cut his ass. So 72.

Yeah. And Wepner will say that Liston was by far the hardest puncher he ever fought. Even at 38 years old. Even fighting a early 20s George Fore foreman who was probably hitting like a cannon an old list and hit harder he said the man cut you with gloves to the point of 70 plus stitches well i mean it doesn't everybody opens up cuts on chuck that's the thing that's why he's known as the bayonne bleeder and we'll talk about in a second how that came about this is the fight that gave him the nickname the bayonne bleeder okay Okay. He's always bleeding, but if a guy's really hitting him with hard shots, he's just bleeding more.

That's all. He just blows his face. Yeah. And, I mean, Sonny Liston is by far the most skilled fighter he's ever fought. And, you know, he's a veteran. He was a heavyweight champion. He knows all the tricks of the trade. He knows that little parting shot off a break.

He knows all those little tricks of the trade that, you know that Chuck is not good at yet or at all ever, really. So Chuck's 31 at this point. He's no kid either, but he's still in his physical prime, whereas 38 is on the declining end of that. So obviously, how do you feel, Jimmy? Great. Oh, my God. My hands hurt so bad. Did you feel better 10 years ago?

A little bit. There you go. Fucking end of the argument there. So Liston is paid $13,000 for this fight, by the way. That's how far he'd fallen. It's at the Armory in New Jersey, so you can't draw a giant crowd for it. $13,000. $13,000 in cash in a brown envelope, by the way.

That's how Sonny would get paid at this point because he, we'll do a Sonny Liston episode. He is the most shit going on, shadiest dude, all sorts of characters, in with the mob. Oh, Sonny. Sonny's a mess. Yeah, we'll talk about him. The end of his life is crazy. Wepner made $3,900. And that's not bad.

$3,900 in 1970 is a good amount of money. And for him, he's excited to fight Sonny Liston. This fight goes nine whole rounds of Sonny Liston pounding on his fucking face repeatedly. Just beating the living piss out of him. For shy of $4,000 of him. It's absolutely. For shy of four grand. Yeah, that's it. So at one point between the eighth and ninth round, he says, I'll let Chuck explain it. Quote, Barney Felix, the referee that night, came into my corner and asked me how many fingers he had up. I said, how many guesses do I get?

me how many fingers he had up. I said, how many guesses do I get? I told him, I'm alright, Barney. Let me go another round. And then he said, quote, so he did. The ref let him go another round. He said, but I couldn't see Liston. All I could see was shadows. His eyes

were swollen shut. Wait till you see that. I'll post the picture as one of the social media posts at Crime and Sports on Twitter and Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram. And his fucking face, he doesn't look like he has eyes. He looks like he's some creature from another planet with no eyes. That's the bravest man on Earth. Oh, he can't see. This is the hardest puncher that he's ever fought against.

Right. And he can't see him at all. And he's going to go fight him more. One more time. He has no thought of this could hurt me so he's having fun like what that's no he just thinks you just keep fighting until the fight's over that's it doesn't matter if you can move around then you can fight so what are we doing what the hell is he doing seeing is important that was the problem in that sport that's the

most important it's really really important he said all i could see was shadows i grazed the referee with a left hook in the next round because he thought he was listing he threw a left hook at the ref and the commissioner jumped up on the ring apron and waved the fight over so this got called off by the commissioner because he was so blind he tried to punch the referee thinking he was sunny liston the ref didn't call it i think he was still like in shock from the wind of fucking a left hook going by yeah this should have been called if he can't see how many how many guesses do i get isn't an okay answer to a terrible answer questioning whether whether you're in the fucking fight or not. And at this point, there is a Bayonne Times newspaper reporter there, Rosie Rosenberg.

And he said, Rosie Rosenberg gave me the nickname. He was sitting in the second row from ringside. He had a white shirt on and there was blood splattered all over him. I was just going to say, wouldn't he get hit with his blood? And he did. The Bayonne bleeder. I was alive at that point. all over him i was just gonna say what did he get hit with his blood and he did the bayonne bleeder it became i was alive at that point he took home the man's blood all over him so he is 21 6 and 2 at this point uh after getting pummeled by liston now after you know this fight liston wanted to fight more he actually was trying to line up a fight with

jerry quarry who was a big star for a long time here uh but this ends up being sunny liston's last fight because he's dead six months later oh my god what sonny's dead six months later under the no one knows still how sunny liston died it's the biggest mystery in the world there's a whole fbi when we do the uh the Liston episode, we'll get into it, because there's a whole FBI file on him, because he was involved with mob shit, and he is, whew, did he have a lot going on, Sonny Liston. Wow. It's kind of like one of those things where it looks like a drug overdose, but they don't

think it's a drug overdose. They think it was like a murder, and who knows? Shocking. It's a lot. And well, we'll let Chuck talk about it. Chuck says, quote, they say Sonny was involved with some, how shall I put it, shady characters. And maybe that's why he was murdered. To be honest, I don't want to come across as uncaring.

I don't know. I don't know what happened to him and I don't particularly care. They say he died of a drug overdose, yet he was afraid of needles. I don't know. That's that's the no a drug overdose, yet he was afraid of needles. I don't know. No one knows what the fuck happened to Sonny Liston still. And Chuck just said he was murdered. Maybe, because people thought he was murdered, but then maybe not. So that's why he said they say he died of a...

It's a question, too. They say he died of a drug overdose, yet he was afraid of needles. Like, maybe not. So maybe they murdered him. No, the sentence before a drug overdose yet he was afraid of needles like maybe not so maybe they murdered the sentence before that he said he was maybe that he shady characters and that maybe he was murdered he said yes he said that um he said to be honest i don't know and i don't care basically so that's not great next up mixed in here in the early 70s because he fought liston i guess i don't know he ends up fighting this bear all the time now do you know anything about the wrestling bear oh i think i have heard of this we've talked about

him briefly it's a big thing in the south in the southern territories a lot but he went all over the place all the territory don't get me wrong there wasn't a territory that was too big for him but some of the ones were really into the wrestling bear and he was a fucking bear named victor and he was this giant fucking bear and he was a brown bear he was declawed he was like he was a not a black bear they're tiny black bears are little it was a big brown fucking brown or a grizzly it was like a 600 pound bear oh it was a fucking bear that would stand up and was eight feet tall that was the thing was wrestle it and he would wrestle it and it was declawed and uh shit it's not detoothed they would muzzle him he's muzzled and declawed and they get him all fucking whacked out on pills

and shit so he doesn't decide to rip your head off your body because he could still rip your head off of your fucking shoulders it's a bear so they drug him up and everything like that it's absolutely cruel as fuck but they take this bear around all over the place and have it wrestle guys and there's all sorts of tricks they would play on each other like if there was a guy who never wrestled the bear before somebody be like yeah i have a good match and he'd like smack him on the ass with some honey on his hand so the bear would be constantly trying to get at his ass yeah so the bear's constantly trying to get at his ass and the guy's like what the fuck and the bear's trying to stick his head up his ass the whole match.

Stuff like that they would do. I hate this so much. This is so cruel. Not just to the bear, but the person, too. It's a stupid fucking thing. It's really stupid. But it was a really popular thing for quite a long fucking time, many years in wrestling. So it was all over the place and and

he was no different and so they would fought it wepner fought the bear yeah he they did exhibitions with it hey this big boxer's gonna fight this bear and uh it was in some nightclub guy named arty stock he owned the royal manor club in new jersey and he offered wepner to fight the bear he's gonna punch the bear well um we'll see here um he said it was for cash wepner says quote i was told not to hit the bear okay that's good he said what should i have done tell a bear story tell the bear a story the bear wanted to kill me he was like the fuck am i supposed to do with him then it's a bear so what did he do he wanted to fight the bear he wanted to punch the bear he

thought like i'll just go in and punch the bear fuck him like which is a stupid thing to think anyway this is crazy he's better off fighting sunny liston while he can't see like that's he said i hit the bear with jabs and hooks and the bear started going crazy it's a fucking bear man yeah you're literally fighting it you started the fight he just said i punched a bear and it got pissed off like that's a weird thing you always hear like what to do in the woods if a bit of something a bear a fucking mountain lion some shit like that because you get tall if it's a mountain lion you do this if it's that no one ever says if you see a bear run right up to it fucking punch it right in the face as hard as you can really give it a i mean a combination

if you can left right if they see you have skills they'll get scared and back off you don't want to look like a pussy no one has ever said that shadow boxing just pisses them off you got to make contact yeah you really got to hit him so yeah it's it's it's pretty ridiculous he had a rematch with him actually there a little later on bear two bear rematch with the bear yeah you know him and the bear i gotta settle the score here so uh wepner said he stepped into the ring he looked over at victor and he saw that it was a different bear. Yeah. He said, oh, no, no, that's right. This is a different one. He turned over to his manager, and he says, quote,

he remembers me. I can tell. He smells me. Because he said, I got in the ring, and he looked at me. He goes, oh, shit, he wants to kick my ass. He said, quote, but Al said, forget it. There's no way a bear can remember you. And he said, quote, he did it and he knew what I would do.

I had to change my tactics. So now he says, not only does the bear remember him, is like pissed off at him, but the bear's going to go, oh, he comes in with the left first, and then he tries to circle around and then pop me with the jab. I got to cut him off. The bear now has been doing film work and fucking. Bears like he drops his shoulder at that hook.

I'm coming at you. Yeah. If I cut him off when he throws to throw that left, I think I could fucking, I could probably get shot in. Overhand declawed right. Yeah, that's how it works. He said the bear had done his homework for the rematch. Wefner's dumb. That is ridiculous.

Turns out it wasn't the same bear it was a different pair that's why the look at he said the look on his face is different like he's pissed off this time just a different pair he can't tell bears apart so uh september of 70 he's in the uh he's at uh where is this empire pool in wembley it's not not in England, so I think it's probably in New Jersey, I'm going to say. He fights Joe Bugner, who's 26-2-0. So that's not bad. This is a third-round loss. Ouch.

But it's only because it stopped after the third round because Chuck has such a terrible cut over his eye, they stopped the fight. So he didn't quit or get knocked out. He just, you know, it was too bloody to continue. That's Chuck. the third round because chuck has such a terrible cut over his eye they stopped the fight so he didn't quit or get knocked out he just you know that was too bloody to continue that's chuck for you so 21 7 and 2 for chuck next up back at the catholic youth center in scranton in january of 71 versus jerry judge jerry judge who's 11 1 and 1 so1-1-1 for him and this one is another loss for Chuck. Is it almost over? Well it stopped in the fifth round because

it's cuts. It stopped with cuts again. He's bleeding all over the place and they fucking stop it so he even waited like four months for this fight but he's got so much scar tissue at this point. Every time somebody hits him he just bursts open again. It's fucking silly. So now he's 21 so much scar tissue at this point. Every time somebody hits him, he just bursts open again. It's fucking silly.

So now he's 21-8-2. Oh, boy. He takes about eight months off here, I guess, to heal. To heal his face. Otherwise, it's just going to burst open again. He's going to lose anyway. So September of 71, he's fighting at the Embassy Hall in North Bergen, New Jersey.

Oh, boy. Yikes. Versus Jesse Crown, who's 21-10-1. of 71 he's fighting at the embassy hall in north bergen new jersey oh boy yikes versus jesse crown who's 21 10 and 1 and he knocks crown out in the fourth round straight ko 22 8 and 2 if you don't know when crystal pepsi was discontinued what was in al capone's vault or which famous meteorologist is lenny kravitz's second cousin, then you haven't spent enough time on Wikipedia. But that's okay. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden, and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole, from SmartLess Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you'd learn that that's the sciency term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster as we start out on

a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to wiki hole ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts so next up at the embassy hall again this is the next month in 71 here october he fights mike boswell mike boswell's nickname yeah the, the Boz. No? George. Jim, which is the least exciting nickname in the history of the world. Jim.

Remember Blazing Saddles? But my friends call me Jim because it's boring. That's the point. Jim. Mike Jim Boswell. Greatwell great thanks fuck my life he has so many options so anything literally anything in the pick an animal pick a fucking occupation yeah pick a thing that you do pick a uh you know a force that you are an act of nature you can pick the tornado you can be anything you want anything verb it up fuck it instead jim this guy sucks he's 13 and 4 and thank fuck chuck

knocks him out or tko's him in the 10th round good take that jim uh 23 8 and 2 for chuck Take that, Jim. Deal. 23-8-2 for Chuck. Next up, Embassy Hall, Northburg, and he fights Randy Newman. He's very upset with his annoying songs, and he can't take them anymore. He will not be his friend. I don't love L.A. How do you think of that, Randy? Huh? What do you think of that, you son of a bitch bastard? I'll kill you.

Get back here, you you curly haired motherfucker you fat shit your face is the equivalent of your songs fuck my life you look like a giant pedophile get over here you fat bastard so uh randy newman 17 and one before switching to his uh music career i guess. Is that right? His Pixar contract? Yeah. That's what happens, man. You're done with boxing. You've got to find something to do. This is for the USA New Jersey heavyweight title.

Really? He's going to be the champion of New Jersey. Jersey champ. Really, what he was anyway. He could have just done what he was doing. He was the champ of New Jersey. Randy Newman could come to the bar and act up if he wants to see if he can beat him so this fight goes all 12 rounds and chuck loses on points oh no to a 17 and one fighter and then randy newman stands over him

and sings a terrible song with that fucking voice that's a professional singer that's crazy he has a speech impediment what are we doing that's that's an affect he just does that in the song really and i don't yeah it's to fucking sound like he's like cutesy which makes me think he's a big doughy pedophile i can't help it. Allegedly. Not legally binding. I don't know. Whatever.

That's how it feels. That's how a song makes me feel. It's how you make me feel, Randy. Like you're going to look for my kid's ball sack and tickle it. That is crazy that that's how he sounds and it's a hit. The guy's got so much money, Jimmy. It's ridiculous. I know. So much money. Oh, oh god what have we done what have we done as a society how have we elevated this man we've made that guy rich

randy newman so randy newman beats him like i said on points on points. He's 23-9-2, loses the New Jersey heavyweight title. That's got to be a real blow to him. He wants to be the champ of New Jersey. Next up, though, a few months later, what is this, April of 72 at the Armory in Jersey City, he's got Randy Newman back again. Here it is. This is for the title again.

And this time goes all 12 rounds, and he beats him on points this time chuck wins it he's the champion of new jersey and bon jovi and bruce springsteen are running into his arms and they're all dancing around very blue collar knight those are the only people from new jersey is chuck wepner john bon jovi and bruce springsteen by the way. And Tony Soprano. Everyone else, that's a fictional character. Everyone else, not from New Jersey. I got news for you, James.

Jon Bon Jovi, also a fictional character. There is nothing genuine about that fucking douche. No, I think his name's Jon Bon Jovi, though. That might be true. I think it is. Everything else about him is fucking bullshit. That's the only other thing. He ain't a bet he doesn't ride a motorcycle if he does there's a lot of those like streamers coming off the handles you know i mean like an eight-year-old girl's bike rainbow you know what i'm saying yeah like in the

wind flapping behind him pink and white ones with glitter all over yeah something something fancy i'm not sure but it's it's nothing down and dirty probably something fancy for an eight-year-old girl fancy for an eight you fancy was for an eight-year-old girl so uh december of 80 of 72 not 82 he's at marist high school gym in bayonne no he's at Marist High School Gym in Bayonne. No. He's at a high school gym in Bayonne defending his title here. Jesus. John Clohessy, C-L-O-H-E-S-S-Y. He's 14-3, John Clohessy. This fight, all 10 rounds again.

The amount of rounds Chuck Wepner's fought. It's way too much. Heavyweight fights. Yeah. And like I said, his style is not one of a lot of dancing and not a lot of hitting he comes in and just lets you hit him in the face man it's wild perhaps randy newman got famous by just uh imitating uh wepner's voice after all these rounds maybe that's just how wepner talks now he's after he's been punched in the face for 12 rounds. Now he still talks like this and he's kind of dumb.

You know, but 20 years, all of this shit. So, uh, yeah, he's the champion of New Jersey. He's fighting John close. He beats him on points 25, 10 and two now for, uh, for him. Um, yeah, 25, 10 and two. Yeah, that's correct. He's doing well. Okay.

March 15th, 1973. He's doing well. Okay, March 15, 1973. He fights at the Embassy Hall at North Bergen, fights Bill Marquart. Marquart, that's a tough name to say. Librarian's name. 10-4-2 coming into this fight. The referee here, I noticed, is Dick Worley, who is a wrestling referee for years, forever. Absolutely. He does a lot of WW years, forever. Absolutely.

He does a lot of WWF events in the Northeast, which means he's licensed by... It was the State Boxing and Wrestling Commission is what it was called, so he was licensed by that probably for both. So anyway, he wins this fight and goes all 12 rounds. Chuck wins on points, 26, 10, and 2. So he said basically he's been bleeding in all these fights, by the way.

He says, but they ask him, like, well, you know, don't you want to stop a fight when you're bleeding? And he said, when I get cut, I'd be in the corner and I'd say to Al, can you see the back of my head through it? If he said he couldn't, then I'd keep on fighting. No, you can't. You got a skull in the way you dummy al should ask you can you see the other fighter do you see him out of your giant eyes and waterfall of fucking blood quick which one's the ref and which one's your opponent real fast point to the the one that's not. The one you're supposed to hit. Tell me. Next up, he fights Ernie Terrell. This is June 23, 1973, fighting Ernie Terrell in Atlantic City.

Ernie Terrell's 46-7. Wow. That's an experienced fighter, and it goes all 12 rounds, and I'll be damned if Chuck doesn't beat him on points. Is that right? Would you look at that? 27-10-2 for the Chuckster. He's doing alright here. And that was a great

fighter, Walt. Not bad. At least a good one. It seems like he's probably at the end of his career, but still, a guy with the skills enough to beat you. Sonny Liston kicked his ass when he was old. January 17th, 1974. The North Bergen place again here. The embassy, whatever the hell.

He fights Billy Williams. The embassy suites right, whatever the hell. He fights Billy Williams. Yeah, the embassy suites right there in the lobby. He fights Billy Williams, the Cubs Hall of Fame slugger, Billy Williams. Later he'll start inserting his middle name. Yeah. After he gets into that goddamn Star Wars. You know how it goes. Billy D. I know how it goes. Billy Dee.

I know, I know. He's a fighter. He's a ball player. He's got it all. I was laughing at it. I wasn't questioning. He was 7-5-1, Billy Dee, coming into this fight.

This is a win on points again for Chuck. Goes all 10 rounds. 28-10-2 for Chuck. Next up, March 8th, 1974 at Madison Square Garden versus Randy Newman again. Oh my God. Randy will be performing a full concert of

all of his Pixar hits and then fighting Chuck Wepner at the end of it. That's how this is working. It's pretty cool. Here, he fights Randy Newman. This is a TKO win in the sixth round. Apparently, they bashed heads into each other. It was an accidental headbutt.

One went one way, one went the other. And they were both cut, but Newman was bleeding worse, so they stopped the fight. Oh, shit. Gave it to Chuck. There you go. The referee, Arthur Mercante Sr., who was around forever, he refereed. I think his son is a ref, too. He refereed the bout and afterwards he had to

throw his shirt out because it was it was a blue shirt to begin with and it was soaked in blood so he had soaked in blood he said quote wepner as we all know was the consummate bleeder this is the referee mind you um every fight he was in there was a sea of red well this fight was no different i stopped it in the seventh. Well, Chuck started screaming at me. He said, how could you stop it? I'm not bleeding that much. My shirt's purple, man.

I said, Chuck, I'm stopping it because Newman is actually bleeding more than you. Wepner won the fight because he assumed his cuts were worse. That's why. So there you go. That's incredible. How you go that's incredible how hilarious is that what are you doing i'm fine no he's fucked up all right this is only a little bit it's only a little bit 29 10 and 2 for chuck at this point so anyway yeah he's in north bergen and may 23rd 74 and um he would beat somebody TKO, some ham and egger here.

30-10-2 now for Chuck. He fights September 3rd, 74, Salt Lake City. He's branching out. Wow. He fights, yeah, going all the way out to the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City. Terry Hinke, who's 36-3-1. Oh. Look at that.

He knocks Hinke down three times in the 11th for a TKO. Done deal. Look at that. 31-10-2. Next up, out of nowhere, he gets a phone call saying, how'd you like to fight the champ? What? Muhammad Ali had just won the title again,

and he just gets, out of nowhere, gets offered to fight Muhammad Ali. He was fighting at the North Bergen. He was fighting at the Salt Flats a minute ago. Yeah, he's fighting Randy Newman, arguing, thinking he's losing to Randy Newman. Meanwhile, now the champ of the fucking world, the best fighter in the world now wants to fight him. So, yeah, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, they had a big article, a guy named Carl Lombardo invested $1.3 million to finance the fight. That's all it cost to finance the fight back then, first of all, which is hilarious for a major heavyweight fight.

For a Muhammad Ali fight. Yep. Ali was guaranteed $1.5 million for the fight, and Chuck wepner was guaranteed a hundred thousand dollars and they said that was more than he had probably more than he's earned in all of his fights combined at this point by far like this is a this is his big payday and they said he needed no coaxing at all he was all in from the second he heard about it yeah he went up to the Catskills to train for eight weeks, get in shape. Al Braverman, his trainer and cut man, he gets a lot of work as a cut man. That's a busy fella. That's a busy fella.

And his manager, too. And his manager, Bill Present, said that he thinks the match is going to be a big surprise here. He said, this is the only time Chuck's ever been able to train full time since the sunny liston fight every other fight he works he's a he's just to make a living he's got a family now he's got a wife and kid he's got stuff going on so he has to work so he doesn't get to train he goes in at night to the gym and whatever but he's not living that all day every day training thing that you know big time heavyweight fighters do. Yeah, what it takes to fight the fucking champ.

What Muhammad Ali is doing. Muhammad Ali is not going to work at a liquor store in the morning and then training at night here. He's getting ready for a fight. So they said that, you know, maybe he's going to fucking be able to do it. We think maybe he can do it. He would spend his day and night working out, doing his thing here. Before the match, a reporter asked Wepner if he thought he could survive in the ring with Ali. And he said, I've been a survivor my whole life.

If I survive the Marines, I can survive Ali. Well, that's confident. Fair enough. Fair enough. He said, they said that this was for some reason everyone was questioning why the fuck did ali pick this guy because he just wanted to beat up some ham and egger who was like a easy target who'd stand there and let you punch his face that's pretty much what he thought for another win is that why yeah because he he just won the title again from george foreman so now he wanted

a nice easy match where he could pick up an easy 1.5 million dollars this is what fighters do i mean it's how you make your living um so but everyone was like what the fuck every article is like not ali's gonna fight this underdog it's this is a fucking joke ali's fighting some he's fighting some club bum don't fucking watch it they're stealing your money this is garbage this is you know it was all negative negative shit that nobody was like you know oh this this yeah he has a shot man yeah he's a because he's a journeyman he's got 10 fucking losses against nobody's i mean what the fuck he's only fought two really good fighters so let's do and in their own words and let chuck describe what he thinks his chances are in this fight here because it's it's pretty fucking good shit so let's give chucking in their own words in their own words

quote the way i figure it this is my chance to set everything straight i'm getting my chance to make up for 11 years of being made fun of let them laugh i'm not bitter i've been getting the short end of the stick for years i've been blackballed and ignored. The garden shafts me because my manager doesn't get along with them. All I know is that every other guy in the top 10 is subsidized or supported by a syndicate or somebody else. All they have to do is train. I do everything on my own. I'm a family man and I hold down a steady job and I'm in the gym up and running in my spare time. steady job and I'm in the gym up and running in my spare time. I'll admit I was stunned when Ali mentioned me. This is a chance of a lifetime, one I thought I'd never get. But listen, I'll be popular. People will like my style. I'm always moving in. Most heavyweights get inside and all they do is hold and maul. I like to fight inside. If Clay fights me like he did Foreman laying on the ropes, I'll kill him. Maybe, just maybe, I'll have the'll have the last laugh clay oh he hit him in the nuts right there yeah he called him clay there which he never does again i don't know if that

was a slip it's not a political thing for him because back then that was what people would do if they were you know if they didn't like ali they'd call him clay but i i don't think that's what he was uh getting at because later on he'll say, probably habit, I think. By then you should know to call him Ali. I don't fucking know. Whatever. It doesn't matter at this point. It was fucking 45 years ago.

I have no idea. 47 years ago. So. I'll call him Muhammad Ali. God damn it. It's a free country. The man wants to be called Muhammad Ali. I'll call the man Muhammad Ali.

So, God damn it. it's a free country. I love that so much. So, he said, yeah, he thinks he has a shot at him. Later on, he has nothing but praise for Ali, by the way, later on when he talks about him. He says, I know everyone has expected me to get cut to ribbons. That's fine. I hope they all underestimate me. Clay especially. Because I don't honestly think he'll take me too seriously, which means he won't train as hard. expected me to get cut to ribbons that's fine i hope they all underestimate me clay especially

because i don't honestly think he'll take me too seriously which means he won't train as hard and if he comes in a little bit out of shape he's in trouble then he says i'm going to win okay um whatever you're snorting i'd like some please it's a solid solid wow taking it he's out he's out on a limb for sure i'm going to shaky one it's precarious as shit it's breezy out too and there's a good chance i'm going to knock him out i'm catching him at the right time of his career he doesn't move in the ring anymore especially in the late mat and the late rounds he's literally knocked out like three people like and they weren't none of them were muhammad ali not one of them not one of them is the greatest so literally never heard of any of them that is pretty fucking ridiculous honestly

that's that's silly and you know ali is jesus christ i don't care if he's even in his waning years his he was still amazing like today i'm not gonna fight him his last fight he beat george vorman right in this in this era so like what are you talking about crushed you at the beginning of his career yeah before even any skills he just beat you up on fucking instinct muhammad ali's corpse could kick my ass oh absolutely yeah for sure 100 even when he was fucking at his sickest he'd still kick your ass and mine i'm not saying you it's a bad man not an insult to you so chuck though he's married he has three kids he's a liquor salesman oh god he like reps a liquor company and sells liquors uh it sells

liquor he's never been knocked down though in his whole career amateur pro 112 fights never been knocked down he says quote they never knocked me down i've never been off my feet fights, never been knocked down. He says, quote, they never knocked me down. I've never been off my feet. I've never been dizzy. I've never been hurt. Even with all the blood loss? He said, I'm a bleeder for sure. But look, I'm Polish-German, so I got fair skin,

and when I bleed, it shows up more. That's all. Okay. Shows up more. We talk, yeah, whiteout. It's still blood. We see how much is dripping onto the canvas. We can tell how much anyone's bleeding.

It's pretty, even if the person is bright red or the color of blood, I don't know. He says, another thing people overlook is that I haven't lost in about three years. I took five months off and I had my eyes scraped. They removed all the scar tissue and grafted new skin over it. You can do that.

I guess that was a thing. He got scar tissue removed and had skin grafted on top of it. His eyes scraped. Otherwise, he couldn't fight because his eyes would just open up. And my manager came up with some kind of brine. I don't know what it's made of, but it sure stinks. And I've been soaking my face in it, and it's tough in the skin. Okay.

He got scar tissue scraped off, and then he soaks his face in it and it's tough in the skin. Okay. He got scar tissue scraped off and then he soaks his face in stink brine? What the fuck kind of a goddamn training regimen is this? Old callous face. Old fucking callous. Yeah, what is it, a baseball glove? Right. What are we talking about here?

Got to work it in with this lotion. I went out on the back of my dad's harley with him making my face more more leather so tough in the skin it's worked i don't get cut that much anymore he says but once you get a rep it sticks with you like he's the guy who gets cut all the time it's like they write a baseball player's a no hit good field guy and then he hits 300 for three states three straight seasons but they're still calling him a good field no hit guy okay it's true you get reputations and your reputation's your reputation his manager is Braverman keeps talking about that he's gonna win he says did you know Chuck's taller than Ali

he is okay he said Chuck's six foot five and he's got an 18 and a half inch neck and he's got a double heart i don't think that's a medical uh term there i think that's just a it's a boxing term yeah i think that's just uh you know figurative thing i don't think he's saying we took no we took him to the doctor they said he's got two hearts it's pretty good they went to measure the one they found another another. Found another. He's another Cinderella man from New Jersey, he calls him. He says, do you know John Scarn, the car shark? Card shark, I'm sorry. Well, he's more than a card shark.

He heard Ali's a seven to one shot. And do you know what he said? He said, I don't care. I'm picking Wepner. John Scarn. That's what he said. Some gambler. A guy that's looking to make money.

Some gambler doesn't give a shit. He's got extra cash, so he's throwing down on the long shot. Yeah, that happens a lot. I'll take the other side of that. Fuck it. It's a huge thing. Wepner said, quote, okay, it's a long shot. Hell, I'll be the first to admit it, but it ain't impossible.

Look, all I got to do is land one big punch. Call it a lucky punch, whatever. I don't care. One is all it takes. Like Al Braverman, the manager, told me. He said, you want to be a millionaire? Then hit him one shot so hard he falls and he stays. He don't get up.

You do that, Chucky, and it's going to make up for a whole lot of hurting. Okay. So get in there and knock him out. So then Chuck says, see this? And he grabs his neck and he says, I call this my shock absorber. There are nerves in the back of your neck, see? And they go up to your brain. Those nerves, they're the one that carry the message to your brain that you've just been KO'd.

So tell your body to lay down. But I got such a neck, see? My head don't snap back so much when I get punched so those nerves they don't get the message so maybe a guy belts me pretty good but my brain never gets told also my brain don't listen to nothing I really I tried to learn

I tried to learn like the alphabet things like that that don't stick neither so either way but I think you know I'll trade it it's worth the trade off is what I'm saying dear men who keep getting punched in the face for a living do not give us a biology lesson you sound dumb that was an insane medical overview of everything there thank you dr chuck wepner see you got these nerves right they go up these are the things that tell your brain oh you just got the fuck knocked out of you fucking you know go down on the ground you know what i'm saying my brain my brain's like a fucking moron it don't know nothing these nerves they

don't tell it nothing so my brain just is like hey i'm keep getting punched on my right you know what i'm talking about it's okay we're gonna do this just fine so ali has with a straight face has to sell this fight as an actual challenge for him. He can't say it's a tune up for something better. He says, quote, Wepner is the US and North American champion. He has a couple of titles. I want to be champion of the whole world. So I got to beat him. You have the world titles.

These are lesser than you. This is that's the silliest thing I've ever heard to say. That is the dumbest shit anyone's ever said. I mean, it's a sales job. It's the only way you could spin this as a sales job. It's the only way. He's a big deal. You've got to pump him up to pump your fight up.

You've got to make the contender or challenger seem like a contender. I'm scared of him. I mean, he could win. I mean, Jesus, I don't know, man. One punch could be the end of Jesus, I don't know, man. He said there's still a man who holds part of what ought to be my title in all of in all places. America. Can you imagine that?

So he's saying I got to get those titles, too. He said he's going to at least said he's going to look up in my face and see realize he's in trouble. I am boxing, not the champion, not just a fighter. I am all of boxing. He is. that's great uh he said uh then they asked him do you think that chuck wepner is representing white america in this heavyweight title which is such a shitty media stupid put in the 70s i guess it was sort of relevant ali and because he's so fucking funny he says, white America wouldn't pick him in that way. Which is fucking hilarious. Wepner said, I've watched films of his last four fights and I saw that he has only hand speed.

That's all he's got left. That's Muhammad Ali's hand speed, which will still kick your ass. So hand speed is fucking everything. Yeah, you could tie up his legs and make him stand like Hannibal Lecter. If he could hit you in the face, it's still got a good shot. This is literally boxing. If he had foot speed, then he'd be a runner. Well, Ali usually did have good foot speed.

That was his whole thing. But he said that it's a 15-round fight round fight as we know these title fights back then wepner said that he has dreams every night that he's going to knock ali out in the 13th round that's his prediction he says i see it clearly ali goes down then i go over to howard cosell and i say believe it howard there it is and uh dreams al braverman said i've been telling chuck over and over that one punch will make you a millionaire just go do it sky's the limit you could go from nothing to something grace we're gonna call it grace chance he's got his chance it's all open right now the future is fucking right before his eyes march 24th 75 the richfield coliseum in Ohio there. Ali is chanting, I'm the champ of the whole world.

I can whip any man in the whole world as he's coming to the ring. He says, he's got nerve to sign a contract to fight with me. I'll throw him down in the ring and stomp on him. It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am. All right. He's doing his thing. Ali's 45-2 at this point. So, you know, obviously he's fucking Muhammad Ali.

In the ninth round, they fight. It's a good fight for the first eight. Ali is obviously 100 times more skilled than Chuck, but Chuck just keeps coming. And when he hits Ali, it's pretty hard. So, you know, in the ninth round, Chuck knocks him down. Wow. He knocks him down.

Ali, to his dying breath, would say that Chuck stepped on his foot and he tripped, and it was a slip. But both Chuck, the referee, and if you watch it, he got him. It's not like he didn't hit him and he fell down. He fucking punched him and then he fell down. So I don't know what's up with his foot, but he fell down.

There's no shame in getting somebody, getting a shot in on you here. So Wepner went to his corner you know how you got to go to the corner over there and he said al start the car we're going to the bank he thought he won he said quote we're going to the bank we are millionaires in the ring in the ring wepner's manager al said quote you better turn around he's getting up and he looks pissed off bear this is worse this is worse he thought he could just you know laze through the fight you just awoke him to the fucking the the point that he maybe that's not true now he actually

has to beat the shit out of you this is probably not good for you if you're gonna surprise him you better knock him out you know and you just bragged that you just won he doesn't like that and they did the uh he said between the 12th and 13th round the referee came over and put two fingers in front of his face and asked how many and he did his famous how many guesses do i get line 15th round here okay after the knockdown ali took over by the way he was like oh fuck this shit i'm not gonna get embarrassed by this bum by this bum so he outboxed him opens up cuts all over his fucking head above his eyes breaks chuck's nose i mean chuck is fucked up by the end of this fight it looks like a a mess. He's way, way ahead on the scorecards, too. He's won every fucking round probably except for the ninth where he got knocked down.

And with 19 seconds left in the 15th round, the referee waves off the fight, calls it a technical knockout. No, Chuck never went off his feet. Yeah. I thought you were going to say his corner throws the towel. No, no, no.

Let him finish it that's great they stopped it though but they didn't let it go all the way which he was very upset about um in the post fight ali said quote he was a struggle i fight my own fights and i see and the way i see the way i see fit and i'm unmarked so he said nobody fucking cut me this is by the way uh right after the fight at one point from the second row a female audience member yelled that's what you think and it turns out that it's phyllis wepner it's chuck's wife what chuck's wife is talking shit yeah so uh ali said quote that's chuck's wife she's got a right to holler he heard it and um ali said, then, because I guess somebody told her to shut up, basically.

One of Ali's entourage told her to shut up. And he went, oh, no, no, fuck that. That's his wife. She's got a right to holler. Then he says, quote, when I lost that fight to Norton, my wife gave karate to five policemen and then passed out. Gave karate is the greatest way I've ever heard anything put ever. My wife gave karate to five policemen, then passed out. It's amazing.

That's the funniest thing Ali's ever fucking said, I think. It really is. And he's hilarious. What would be the proper way of saying that? Did karate? Performed karate? I think it's gave karate. Gave karate is... hilarious what what would be the proper way of saying that did karate performed karate i think it's gave karate gave karate is i think i'm it's just as good as did or performed it sounds almost generous at that point though i gave them the gift of karate i gave them the gift of kicks to the

face and then passing out on the floor wow um ali Ali did not like Tony Perez, the referee. Hated him. He said, following the decision here, he said that Perez was racist for allowing Wepner to rabbit punch him in the early stages of the battle. He said, he's not white nor black. He's Puerto Rican trying to be white.

He's a dirty referee. I never want that man to referee another one of my fights. That's pretty harsh. Then he said, somebody asked him, would you fight him on his own terms in a bar room? Chuck Wepner, you beat him in the ring. Would you fight him in a bar? Yeah. And Ali said, quote, I don't fight in bar rooms.

I'd shoot the man before I'd fight him. Jesus. Then he said, it was a joke because he gives a long pause. Then he said, I'd cut him. Jesus. Then he said, it was a joke, because he gives a long pause, and he said, I'd cut him. Black people cut you. And then he started laughing. It's a joke. He's a fucking comedian, Ali.

He's always got a line. Then he said that he'd be willing to fight Joe Frazier again for $10 million. That would be the fee for Frazier. In what year? 76. That's a lot. A lot of fucking money. He said, quote, I'd come in about 214, because he was about 223, weighed in for this fight against Wepner.

I'd come in about 214 and in shape for Frazier. I did just enough to get by with Wepner. Hell, if I'd have blocked every punch and ducked every jab by round 10, I'd have been more tired than him. So he was like, it's easier just to stay away. Now, Chuck's manager said, this is after the fight, he said, quote, Chuck had four cuts, but you couldn't tell. His manager was waiting in a Holiday Inn for Chuck to return from the hospital at this point when he says this.

He said, over the right eye in the fourth, under the right eyebrow in the fifth, and the big one across the left eyebrow in the eighth. None of them bled much. Nothing was dripping. That's because I had stuff in there. And that's why he went to the hospital to make sure they clean that stuff out so it don't get infected. Then they stitch him up if he needs it. Wow.

He's still we put like burlap in there. Like just fucking do the he pack it with cotton? He packed it with this fucking jelly shit. It's almost like a Vaseline type. But it's not Vaseline. It's this other shit that they use in there. It's gross. Somebody said, will he need any stitches?

And he said, Chuck's a sadist for stitches. He loves them. They're his favorite. He can't come unless he's getting stitches. That is fucking amazing. He said, all the cuts took 23 stitches. Two over the left eye, one over the right eye. One didn't need any.

No deep cuts. The doctor was very thorough. He told me, the only thing is your nose is broken. I told him, don't worry about it. This is the fifth time. It's just silly putty now. Yeah. Don't worry about it. It's fine.

Sometimes I sneeze and my nose bleeds. I get it. He said, it's just cartilage now. I was there two and a half hours. They had ice packs on the eyes for an hour and a half to bring the swelling down. Now, of the ref, he was upset, too. He said, only 19 seconds left. Perez could have let me finish.

I heard him. I took the eight and got up at nine. So he's like, what the fuck is going on here? He said that Perez did his manager, though, disagrees. Braverman said Perez did the right thing. One hundred percent total exhaustion. Chuck was out of gas. That's all there was to 19 seconds is plenty of time for Ali to murder you.

It is. Yeah, it is. It's a lot, especially when it's a big guys. And one of them is absolutely out of it. Chuck couldn't bring his hands up anymore. He was done. Can't fucking see. Yeah. Wepner said. Yeah. So he was upset about it. Now, before the fight, he was so confident that he bought his wife a pink negligee and told her she would be sleeping with the heavyweight champ of the world that night. champ of the world that night dirty i like it he returned to the hotel room that night all fucked up and stitched up and everything else and sat on the bed uh and she was sitting on the bed in her negligee and she said well is the champ coming or should i go to his room i love new jersey for this reason that's phyllis from jersey right there well is the champ coming or should i

go to his room and then they both fucking crack up and drink some Boone's Farm together or something. That's hilarious. That is amazing. It's the best joke a wife's ever told, ever, ever in the history of anything. It really fucking is, man. So this is when Rocky's being filmed now, or after this rocky becomes is starting to be filmed after the alley fight and all this because we'll talk about later on exactly when but this is the fight that made that movie a thing really this is the fight that gave stallone the idea for the movie

a nobody club fighter fighting the fast-talking heavily skilled champion of the war it's it's rocky it's the first Rocky. And especially because Chuck used to collect some money here and there, too, and shit like that. He did all the Rocky shit from the first movie. Chuck said about the – because it was – Rocky was nominated for multiple Oscars, obviously, and before the Oscars, Chuck said, I sent Stallone a telegram the day before it read good luck rocky i'm quite sure you'll score a clean knockout over all of your opposition

your buddy chuck wepner and he says i'm sure he would have read it on the air if he won i doubt it i honestly doubt it um he'd be he'd thank his accountant before he'd fucking thank you you know what i mean Let's be honest here. He said, though, they'd never met, though, Chuck and Wepner at that point. Or Chuck and Stallone. Chuck and Stallone. You know what the fuck I was talking about. Don't act like you didn't know what I was talking about.

Chuck's met himself several times. This is fucking hard over here. You know what I'm saying? Probably not recently, but I'm sure he's not going to. So he said, that's fucking so he said um but i was the ins but he says i was the inspiration for the story is what chuck says but they've never met um chuck talks about they said what'd you think about rocky so what does the real rocky think about the movie rocky he says it was so realistic i saw myself all over again. Honest.

When I fought him, I said to myself, hey man, you can't beat Ali. He's the champ. He's the greatest fighter who ever lived. You can prove to the world

you really belong in there and that you deserve this fight. That's what made the picture so great. He really was the way, he really was the way a fighter thinks. He just wanted to survive with him, the champ,

and that's all it was. He said that some things are a little corny in it. He said that thing where they took the razor and slid his eye in the corner to take down the swelling. They'd never do that during a fight because it would squirt so much blood. They'd have to stop it, which is true. Yeah.

You'd put the giant ice compression on it and try to get it down two seconds there. He said that we also, the scenes in the meat warehouse when rocky's fighting when he's punching sides of beef yeah he's got he's got beef with beef he says where rocky's punching out sides of beef to get in shape quote nobody would train like that if you work up a sweat in a refrigerator and stop you catch pneumonia he said but the fight scenes were great. I saw it three times so far.

First, I went with my friend, Peter Lemongiello, the singer. Then it was at the New York premiere. During the movie, the people in the theater were yelling, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, while Rocky was punching him, just like they did in the garden on closed circuit when I knocked Ali down. The fight was on closed circuit, the Wepner-Ali fight. He said he was great, too, the guy who played Ali. He was a defensive back on the Oakland Raiders. He should have got the Supporting Actor Award. He portrayed Ali to a T.

He's talking about Carl Weathers, who was not even really an actor at that point. That's what he just said. The guy that played Ali. The guy who played Ali, you know, the guy who used to play for the Raiders. That's what he was known as at that point. Not Apollo Creed. That's fucking amazing. He said they had to pick a relatively small man to play Ali because Stallone is not at all a heavyweight.

He's only 5'9", about a buck 65. He wears those built-up shoes in the movie, and everything they shoot is from down to give the illusion. He lifts weights and is muscular, so he looks bigger. Yeah, on film you can make anybody look as however fucking big you want they've made tom cruise look like a normal size person for fucking 40 years they made him look like a a person who women are like oh yeah swooning not you know five four or whatever he is they've made david spade look average height as well yeah they really have that's. He's lucky Chris Farley was fat and not tall, or else it would have been a problem for him. So, yeah, he said that he looks bigger. Chuck Wepner says that Stallone is coming to New York in May, and he's supposed to do some TV stuff with him, whatever that means.

And he said, now there's talk of a Rocky II. And Chuck said they should call it rocky round two which he already fought he fought 12 rounds so that would make no sense so that's fine i get where he's going but no thanks so november 13th 1975 exposition building in portland he fights johnny evans uh by the way these fights after ali I don't think these guys were even real fighters or they were guys under aliases or something. He fights two fighters in a row who this is their only fight that they ever fight. So, wow. Check this out.

He's pulling punches to try to pad his career? I think this is just like to get two wins back to whatever. But November 13th, 75, he knocks out a guy in the fourth round named johnny evans okay which sounds made up it just sounds really basic it's his first and only fight then two weeks later he fights again in fort lauderdale florida against johnny dolan okay and it's his one and only fight also so that just sounds like it's shady it's kind of what boxing did he knocks this guy out in the third round he's 33 11 and 2 after those two fights by the way it's not bad yeah so after the fight though the ali wepner fight that's when

stallone wrote the script for rocky uh like he said and um it's it's all about that it's not the that's what's good about rocky is he doesn't win at the end. That would be unrealistic. If Rocky beat this guy, it would be completely unrealistic. Yeah, if a guy that chased chickens, drank eggs, and punched beef wins, that's ridiculous. He just doesn't have the skills. He doesn't have any of it.

The other guy is way more talented, physically gifted, skilled. I mean, he wants it just as bad too. That's why he's in such great shape. You know what I'm saying? It's not like you wanted it and he doesn't care yeah he's rich but he still wants to kick your ass you know so just because heart alone does not win things you still have to be talented that's the thing is that so many sports they learn that shit where they want all these heart guys and they're like we actually have to have talent too you get one or two heart guys yeah well the one or two heart guys.

Well, the one or two heart guys keep the talent guys honest. You know what I mean? Oh, Christ, I can't look like I'm going half speed to that guy. But other than that, you need talent. And that's why Ali kicked his ass. That's the point. Heart's a beautiful story. But listen, when the bad news bears lose, it's fucking great.

Yeah, because they're losing against a much better team. That's the point. Yeah. So that's what goes on here. He loves that they didn't make Rocky win. He loves that he made him go the distance and be set. That's the win. At the end, he just survives the fight and loses and the fucking music is swelling and he's hugging age.

That's the win for him to surviving. So he thought that was pretty cool. 1976. Okay. He fights Andre the Giant. Oh, dear Lord. for him to surviving so he thought that was pretty cool um 1976 okay he fights andre the giant oh dear lord now he's that you didn't bet you didn't expect that one oh my god well ali fought an antonio inoki on the same night that's this isn't ali's the heavyweight champ of the world he fought antonio inoki the japanese wrestler on the same night this This is a Vince McMahon produced senior, but Junior does a lot of the leg work and is doing, Junior is trying to figure out closed circuit television.

And he's investing in different things in closed circuit television, which actually for him ends up working out well because he's on the forefront of that in the early 80s, in the mid 80s. He has the wrestling challenge was the first like available pay-per-view. Right. So like for wrestling. So, I mean, before that it was just closed circuit.

He moved it into that. And really like pay-per-view wrestling drove that wrestling and boxing are the things that drove those two things. Closed circuit was all over the place for boxing. So this is Andre the Giant versus Chuck Wepner and Muhammad Ali versus Antonio Inoki in separate locations. Fantastic. The Inoki-Ali fight,

I believe, is in Japan. It's in Tokyo. And this fight is in Madison Square Garden over here. So what they do is, in Madison Square Garden, they have a full card. They have Bruno Sammartino versus Stan Hansen that night for the WWF title. And then you have later on in the night you have uh Wepner versus Andre the Giant and then they put the screens out oh boy and you see they have the screens out and you see

Ali Enoki when they're when the card here is over so that's how it ends up going down. And it's called The War of the Worlds, boxer versus wrestler, shown live on closed-circuit TV across the U.S. and including Canada and the U.K. as well, they show it. So Andre, Wepner's 37 years old, by the way, at this point. Oh, no. He's getting older here, and he's looking to make some money.

He's in the end of his boxing career. He's still a big guy who has a huge punch against normal people. But Andre the Giant's not exactly a normal person. And it's also fake. So, you know, who cares? So let's see here. He the rules are the match of the match or this the quote rules. It's wrestling.

So, you know. Andre could do anything that pro wrestlers were allowed to do. He could kick, punch, grab, slap, chop, fucking pile drive, do whatever he wants. But if any hold he gets Wepner in, as soon as Wepner touches the

ring ropes, he's got to release him, which is wrestling rules anyway. So that doesn't matter. So Wepner has to wear boxing gloves and can only throw punches that's all he's allowed to do no kicking no kicking no grabbing no headlocks only punches versus anything you want with no gloves on yeah which seems unfair if it was real so uh the bout is scheduled for 10 three minute rounds and uh you know they have scorecards and all that kind of shit possible outcomes are pinfall submission knockout tko decision draw count out or disqualification okay so they combine all the outcomes of wrestling and boxing and you

can have any of them so uh wepner's you know boxing against andre the giant in the beginning of it he's throwing like you know yeah he looks like a boxer and andre's boxing against Andre the Giant in the beginning of it. He's throwing like, you know, he looks like a boxer, and Andre's got like the cross thing. He's trying to fight him off. You know, he's throwing little light hands to the body, and he's throwing little rights, feeling each other out. And then I guess they lock up for a second here, and Wepner immediately grabs the ropes, and that's the end of the first round.

They put it like, ooh, if Andre gets a hold of him, and he does, and then he grabs the ropes and that's the end of the first round like they put it like oh if andre gets a hold of him and he does and then he grabs the ropes quick and the round's over so ding ding ding keep the drama up that's how everyone should have known it was fake immediately so um finally here andre comes inside trying to get like a single leg tape down on him and wepner clenches up on him hooks his right arm and all this type of shit uh and then Andre releases Wepner and uh he falls into the ropes there's another break and they do all this shit they keep doing this Andre comes in tries to get a wrestling hold Wepner grabs the ropes quick so they're building this whole thing where if Andre ever gets a hold of him you know um that's how it's gonna work uh so between rounds one and two by the way vince mcmahon is vince mcmahon vince mcmahon vince mcmahon is doing the commentary

for it because he was the commentary guy back then and he was talking he said quote the champion of the war of the worlds will be awarded a new harley davidson motorcycle that's. That's the prize? And then they showed it. It was an SS250. This was at Shea Stadium, this event, but then it was, I'm sorry, closed circuit at Madison Square Garden. So they had the motorcycle sitting right there in the infield dirt of Shea Stadium.

There it is. So they didn't say who would win. Imagine Andre the Giant on a fucking motorcycle. That's ridiculous. That's absurd. That's asinine. So either way, it doesn't matter. So during the also another round, he did a live read for a JVC fucking combination model 350 combination TV radio.

TV radio, not DVD. Which is VHS. It looks like a it's like the shape it's a big rectangle and it has like a handle on the end it's one of those it's got a little tiny fucking screen and then the thing one of those deals antenna on it yeah it's long too it's like fucking huge this thing that's they were showing that shit there get one of those so um anyway chuck falls down at one point andre moves in picks wepner up um goes to body slam him and then ends up uh fucking picks him up over his head and all that kind of shit and throws wepner over the ropes is this sounding familiar to you no this is rocky three by the way is that right and rocky three stallone fights hulk hogan

at the time as thunder lips and that's what that's it's the exact same match he would grab uh stallone stallone grab the ropes holy shit this guy's enormous what the fuck and then the end of the match is hulk hogan picks him up over his head and throws him into like the third row of the crowd so it's exactly what happened here is what Stallone did for Rocky three. It's fucking, it's ridiculous. So, um,

Wepner overhooked the top rope with his right hand and got his right leg caught between the middle and top rope. You have to know how to go over those ropes. That's not, it takes practice. And it caused him to fall first on the ring apron, apron. Then he goes out onto the infield.

Ouch. He's fine. It's Chuck Wepner. You know, he's all right. So apparently he's supposed to get 20 seconds to get back into the ring, and they gave him instead the standard pro wrestling 10 count. He thought he had 20 seconds, but it was only 10 seconds, and so there's a big melee after that.

Everybody gets all upset, and that's, you know, so they can get a rematch. So they can possibly have a rematch here. Gorilla Monsoon gets involved. It's very fucking stupid. So anyway, the bell rang. Andre gets the victory by count out in round three. And that's not what was supposed to happen? Or was?

No, that was what was supposed to happen. And that's the thing. For years and years, people were like, maybe it was real. Because there's a... The Enoki Ali match ended up That was what was supposed to happen. And that's the thing. For years and years, people were like, maybe it was real. Yeah. Because the Inoki-Ali match ended up turning into kind of a shoot was the problem. Inoki is such a fucking ego over there that he couldn't let this guy make him look stupid in Japan. So Inoki basically just laid down and kicked him in the legs.

He's like, if I lay down, you can't punch me. And Ali, and ali rather than just going okay i'll stand over here till you get up motherfucker i don't care it's your fucking crowd you want to look like an asshole who puts on a bad event ali tried to make something out of it to go near him and he just kicked him in the legs i think ali ended up with blood clots and shit from that jesus getting kicked in the leg repeatedly a bunch of bruising and blood clots he had to go to the hospital for oh my god yeah it was really and it was a terrible no one liked it it was terrible yeah the enoki fight it was boring no one liked it but uh that's what i've heard about it i've never seen it honestly but that's what i always i've read it 20 times oh i'm sure it is it just never sounds boring so um this was totally all cooperative chuck says quote we worked out a couple times before our match.

I promised not to hit him in the face. Andre promised not to throw me too far. That's all. Let's be gentle. That's it. There was 33,000 people there, by the way. That's a lot. And that's when they watched the three-sided video screen there.

They put it on the baseball infield, and they watched Ali Enoki there. So anyway, May 6, 1976. He's back fighting boxers again. Good for him. Not bears or giants or anything else. Just guys in the street. May 6, 1976. High school gym in Kearney, New Jersey.

Jesus, God. He was fighting Ali last year. He fights Tommy Sheehan, who's 11, 15, and 1. TKO's him in the second round, 34 and 11. October 2, 76, at the Utica College Sports Complex in New York there. Dwayne Bobbick he fights, who's 36-0 coming in. Wow. It's an up-and-comer.

He loses. Chuck loses by TKO in the sixth, obviously. 34-12-2 for him. February 19th, 1977, South Africa, Johannesburg versus Mike the Tank Schutte. S-C-H-U-T-T-E. Schutte. Schutte. Something. The Tank. S-C-H-U-T-T-E. Shut, shoot, something. The Tank. 33-6-1 here.

Chuck loses by decision all ten rounds. You can't keep doing this. This is bad. 34-13-2. Next up, down the line further. May 20th, 77, at the Broome County Arena in Binghamton, he fights Horst Giesler. What?

Horst. Horst. His name is Horst Giesler, and he has no nickname. Picked nothing else. I'll go by that. How about George? It's better than Horst. Take George.

The problem is that he's going to. Just this once. You can't just be the inspiration for a big deal. That doesn't make you any money. That doesn't do anything. Well, it might later on. We'll talk about that. But Horst is 9-3, and he beats Chuck by TKO in the 10th round.

So Chuck is 34-14-2. April 7th, 78, North Bergen. He fights Johnny Blaine, Chuck is 34-14-2. April 7th, 78, North Bergen, he fights Johnny Blaine who is 2-16-1. Maybe I can beat him. By the way, career 4-33-2. So he just basically did exactly what he did again.

Did it all over again. Yep, exactly. Plus one loss. TKO in the third round for Chuck on this one. 35-14-2. June 2nd 78. He fights at the Old Armory in Jersey City. He's fighting a guy named Tom Healy who they're

saying that he's a good fighter and he has a good left hook and all this shit and he's 3-5 though so how good he can be. Wepner says I'm going to beat the whatchamacallit out of haley i know he was the all-army champ and fought all those amateur bouts and has done pretty well in the pros so far and is 10 years younger than me he's supposed to be a good boxer and a good jabber

but i think he's going to turn into a good runner and what i'm going to have to do is cut off the ring corner him and try to put him away i've been away. I've been spotting guys years all my life. And he says, it doesn't matter. I'm always in good shape. I never smoke. I lift weights. I belong to two or three different health clubs. I play a lot of softball.

Don't worry, everybody. I'm playing softball. Kick everybody's ass here. 40 years old. Everything will be fine. I'm 40. I'm a good softball player. I play in a beer league.

It's not bad. When I started out in boxing 14 years ago, I weighed 214. you'll be fine i'm 40 i'm a good softball player i play in a beer league it's not bad when i started out in boxing 14 years ago i weighed 214 i'm only seven or eight pounds more than that today and that's all muscle so he's ready to go hailey was uh he spent 14 months in vietnam in the army holy shit yeah um and um he said that the first place he came on his way back was to the gym to, quote, straighten his head out. So to get his head screwed on straight, he decided to have people punch him in the face. He dealt with PTSD by just taking out his rage on people. By boxing, yeah.

Wow. He also worked as a bartender in a cabbie, and he was a police academy trainee at some point. He was a police academy trainee at some point. He said that he'd like to be, you know, he'd like to be, Chuck is saying that Chuck wants to be a full-time boxer here. You know what I mean? That's what he wants. And his manager said, quote, Wepner is at the crossroads of his career. This is Braverman.

If he doesn't look well against this guy, I'm going to tell him to call it a day. Jesus. Healy's young and strong. Father Time may be catching catching up to chuck this could be his last hurrah then he says i've been very fortunate to have been associated with chuck he's already saying his obituary it's over he's a beautiful guy we've never had a written contract all we've had is a handshake fighters come and go but managers remain but if chuck doesn't look good i'm going to sit him down and talk to him and tell him it's the end he's got all his marbles he's a good businessman he's well respected he can't cross the street without 50 people asking him chuck why are you

fighting next just a beautiful human being i tell you this guy's hilarious, Chuck wins by TKO in the fifth, so I guess he's allowed to keep boxing. 36-14-2. September 26, 1978. This is for the New Jersey State Heavyweight Championship against a prospect named Scott Frank, who's 4-0 right now. Noted for being a big puncher. His whole career, he'll be 22-1-1, so not terrible. This fight goes 12 rounds, all 12, and Chuck loses by unanimous decision. Now can he quit?

Making him 36-15-2, and now he retires. He's done. Good. He says, quote, I know just how Ali felt. He said, I had held the Jersey Championship for 16 years, but the training became too arduous. I lost the title to Frank Scott, who was 20 years old. I remember that Scott when he was 12.

He used to come down to the gym and watch me train. When you lose to an ex-12-year-old, that's it. Chuck, that's the line of crime in sports for all time. Everyone's an ex-12-year-old. Everyone, even someone that's the line of crime and sports for all time everyone's an ex-12 year old everyone even someone that's older than you when you lose but it's so you know exactly what he means you know what he means when you lose to an ex-12 year old that's it that's amazing a man that you've seen when he was 12, but he lost to 16 other ex-12-year-olds. All of them are, yeah. Fuck. He said, I'm still working for Majestic Liquors, doing my rounds, and I've been working for

Central Drum and Barrel in Newark. When I retired, I became a sex symbol. My stable of girls increased from three to five. Holy shit. Yeah, all he does, he's divorced around this time he just goes around hangs out at bars just fucking slings dick he's a local celebrity everyone knows who he is he's in jersey they're like oh i know chuck and they all bang him with their tees up hair it's fucking ridiculous banging ex-12 year olds ex-12 year olds. Hey honey, I bet, I bet you was 12 once,

huh? That's not a good come on. I don't think he talks about Ali here. Cause everybody kind of got the idea that he didn't like Ali. Yeah. What happened? He said, quote,

I love Ali. He's not like he's pictured in the papers. No, it's a fucking in wrestling, in wrestling. Everybody, all wrestlers always say this. The guys who are the best bad guys are the nicest guys outside the ring.

The guys who are the good guys are usually narcissistic shitbags. That's usually how it works. It's no different for this, I don't think. Yeah, it's how it works. It's the same as a person that's self-deprecating is a great person to be around. Somebody that just says unbelievable things about themselves is always a piece of shit usually yeah if i'm great all the time is a work that's the worst person to hang out with that's fucking yeah that's really fucking bad no i i get it though it's it's you get a bad from this show and from small town murder people think i

must be a huge asshole like i'm walking around screaming at people in the streets. Who's nicer to strangers, Jimmy? I mean, honestly. As long as they're elderly and female, there's nobody nicer. Or really, yeah, that's true. I'm nice to old ladies. I really am. I'm really sweet to old ladies.

But I'm nice to people yeah generally generally i mean the the there's there's not a there's not a show of of multiple people together that's nicer to everybody else than you and i i guarantee that no that's true i agree with that absolutely we go out of our way to be kind to people and yeah yeah that's what that's what it is because we're because we hate ourselves that's why that's because we're just because you have hard self-deprecating. You have hard, hard opinions on things, but it's not that you think you're better than them. You're just you're just you're not. What you're saying is they're not better than you.

That's all it is. And not only that. Also, it's also we're on a comedy show. So most of what I'm saying is a fucking joke. That's the other thing. I might believe the kernel of it, but all of my ranting and ravings are the fluff around it that's the joke part you know what i'm saying so understand that and the exaggeration and the hard opinions are not putting yourself on a pedestal oh grabbing shit on a pedestal and bringing it down to you

who who the fuck do you think you are is what it is it's not i think i know who i am it's who the fuck you think you are yeah that's all yeah you're not worthy of being up there you need to be down in the muck with me you're not better than me you think you're better than me i'm not better than you but you're not better than me but you said you sure as fuck ain't better than me buddy i'll tell you that right now that's what it is that's what it is so chuck says about muhammad ali quote i love ali he's not pictured like in the papers i know him a little when i fought him but i got to know him pretty good there three years ago when we were in washington dc to make a film on dental hygiene for the local grammar schools what a strange idea

where did that come from? We need to teach nine-year-olds about dental hygiene. Let's get Muhammad Ali and that guy that he beats up and bleeds all the time. Let's get him. The guy who fought the bear in Andre the Giant. We'll get those two together. Fire sprinkler face. We need that guy.

Yeah, we need that guy. He can bleed on the children. It'll be wonderful for him. It'll be a lot of fun. They like that kind of shit. What the hell? So, yeah yeah he said they did that quote i was mr tooth decay and whenever i knocked ali down he went running back to brush his teeth we spent three days together he's like a big child always giggling and joking that's a great way to be if you can be i owe him an awful lot he meant

everything to my career if i had been ranked eighth in the world and was u.s and jersey champ but let's face it those titles don't mean a hill of beans i got a hundred thousand dollars for that fight and it got me fights against those wrestlers andre the giant and enoki he ended up having a match against enoki too but the john dre one's the interesting one he said i had I had 12 fights after Ali, won 10, but all anybody ever remembers is that I almost went the distance against Ali. It made me famous all over the world. Yeah, for no money. Absolutely.

He said, you know, he said, people say I came along way too soon because I would have made a lot more money fighting for the title nowadays. He said, I made $100,000 plus $25,000 in fighting expenses for that fight ali made over two million but you know what i wouldn't trade that hundred thousand dollars for all the millions they could give me today because i fought muhammad ali the greatest fighter who ever lived and that's an honor that you can't buy it's true it's true um yeah he said that he uh he's every that every day is a celebration of getting that fight because he owes everything to it. He said, quote, I owe just about everything I have to that fight. Absolutely. That's what he said when he was 55 years old later on.

So that says a lot. Now, 79, Rocky II is going. And apparently on Wepner's table, there's an autographed picture of Sly that says, quote, to my inspiration, Sly Stallone. Is that right? Yeah. Sly even gave Wepner some lines as a sparring partner in Rocky II. He was going to cast him as a sparring partner, get him a little payday. But apparently, Wepner says his part was omitted nine days before the final cutting.

Everybody else that was there said that Sly wanted him in there, but they had to cut him loose because he was coked out of his fucking mind the whole time he was there. He had an obvious drug problem and it wasn't okay to have him around basically and they wanted to cut him out of the movie. You could tell he wasn't right. That's fucked. At this point he is doing some serious fucking coke for a while i mean jersey early 80s hangs out and he's a liquor rep yeah all he does is hang out in bars in jersey trying to get if you're a single guy in jersey early 80s trying to get women you're a liquor rep you got liquor coke coming out. You are a fucking mess. This is gross.

Absolutely disgusting. The fucking places he gets blowjobs is making me nauseous right now. Nauseous. Fucking disgusting. So, yeah, that's Rocky II. Rocky III later on, after Rocky III, Wepner said, quote, I saw Stallone two months ago and he told me he had a part in Rocky 3 for me. He said I could play the heavy bag. He was giving me a zinger.

He blew his chance, in other words. That's brutal. But at this point, there's an article that says, quote, so Chuck Wepner lives. He has his Cadillac and his girls and his liquor route and his reputation among the bars and babes of the Jersey Shore. And he has an everlasting gratitude and empathy for a fellow traveler. That's what he says. How long? Oh, this does not last, though, man.

No, this is bad. This little this fame from before. Living for today. At some point, you're a creepy old guy at the end of the bar offering young women coke who don't want it from you you know what i mean yeah so they want your coke but then they're not going to blow you that's the difference you're gross yeah thanks a lot bye that's what that'll be oh okay and and you're the guy who was in who was the inspiration you weren't even in the movie it was about you or at least roughly kind of the older you get the less believable that becomes because you're a lumpy old man with scars all over your head the movie you don't you're not

recognizable so november 1985 now so it's been six years since he retired yeah just been hanging out the jersey bar scene selling liquor doing coke that's what he does um november of 85 he is arrested uh-oh um obviously everyone you looked at me like oh shit really it's crime and sports he's gonna get a sorry it took two hours to get him arrested but it's an interesting story so he's arrested for several drug offenses the result of an eight-month investigation oh yeah he's been deep in it he didn't get pulled over and have a fucking eight ball in his pocket this is a problem uh the prosecutor said he is described by the prosecutor as a mid-level drug dealer hangs out in bars i mean he's got connections hangs out in bars people

selling for him too well they pulled him over in saraville and uh because they knew what was going on and they knew what he had he had in his trunk four ounces of coke that's a lot that is not good at all you can't have you can't you can't do that shit sold in grams that's a lot of fucking coke yeah you can't have a qp of fucking coke in your car that's too much coke it's a lot so um all of that he's arrested uh they said that was worth about 12 grand. Then when they pulled him out and searched his body, he had about two eight balls in his pocket and 365 grand bucks in cash. So he had his sales and his personal supply in his pocket. And that's that.

He's charged with possession of cocaine, possession with intent to distribute cocaine, and conspiracy. This is bad, bad, bad for him. tribute cocaine and conspiracy. This is bad, bad, bad for him. Um, they get a search warrant to search his home and they found $3,200 in cash and three unregistered handguns there as well.

So Chuck's got some fucking issues now. Now he's a mid-level drug dealer who's got busted with a shitload of Coke and guns and money. Not good. Uh, this is all bad stuff. Um, they, they had him on. They did all sorts of different surveillance and electronic surveillance.

This was a big, giant fucking case to get five bar scumbags for snorting. I don't care about this at all. You know what this probably cost? That's what I was going to say. Millions of taxpayer dollars to get five scumbags yeah yeah in the state of new jersey and any of this goes for any any state out there you can say i wish my kid's school had this they have everything they need all sorts of electronic shit to bust five fucking scumbags from the jersey bar scene who he wasn't selling it at the high school he's

selling it to other jersey coke fucking skanks and shit like that at the Jersey Shore. I don't care about that at all. Four ounces of it, too. It's not even like it's several keys. No, it's a small-time operation. He's not a fucking kingpin. He can get a good price on weight, and he fucking sells it at the bar because he's there anyway. Why not make extra cash?

He's probably making more money selling Coke than he ever did boxing oh absolutely christ decides the ali fight he didn't make shit so uh yeah he was arrested on route 35 on november 8th 1985 they had him on electronic surveillance selling cocaine on three different occasions to an intermediary who then sold that cocaine to an undercover officer so he's a supplying this like low-level people that are selling also so he's one step above the you know the user actually yeah the actual guy just drew snorting a line so um following his arrest they also arrest another man and another woman who wepner was supplying the drugs to who he was on his way to see three other people were also arrested by the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office as a result, which was a huge.

You know, they had it all on film drug control buys and all that kind of shit. Eight month and eight month investigation by not only the county prosecutor's office, but also the Drug Enforcement Agency. So federal was in on this yeah fucking almost a year for this yep and several police departments how many man hours did we pay for for this shit it's gotta stop we gotta stop with this fucking drug shit it's ridiculous it's fucking ridiculous this is i mean people are like yeah but then they're in the streets doing that it costs so much less to just fix whatever they fuck up in the streets it really does i'm tired of this shit i mean people are like yeah but then they're in the streets doing that it costs so much less to just fix whatever they fuck up in the streets it really does i'm tired of this shit i'm sick and fucking tired of it i get that you feel better like oh we're gonna get them i don't

fucking care i'm not paying for you to feel better eat your shit go fuck yourself and then driving the price up so high that it makes it so valuable for so many people to be to be in it and then cutting it down with fentanyl and shit yeah and so many people are dying for for no good cause i fucking think coke is gross i'm not a drug guy and i like weed and that's it so i'm not a fucking drug guy at all but we can't we can't all say we're going to spend as much money as possible and dump every fucking dime we have into making sure that chuck doesn't do coke at the bar i'm not i'm not i'm not up for that i'm sorry i don't fucking care what if we focus on making the world so great you don't need

drugs you know what i mean well yeah i don't think that's possible but sure that'd be great yeah that'd be and nobody ever gets like abused as a child nobody ever like has a bad run as an adult no one ever just has that that receptor that really hooks into coke you know they don't need it to get by no i don't have that i did coke once and went oh god this is terrible jesus christ oh i'm even worse now fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck my brain is going so fast i can't take it now i need to sit i want to yeah oh i was so much i was so much worse than i am now like you think i'm fucking high? Oh, my God.

Jesus Christ. I was like a guitar string wound tight. No good. So anyway, he ends up having to plead guilty to this two years later. In 1987, he pleads guilty to charges of possession and conspiring to sell illegal drugs. He says he pleaded guilty, quote, to spare his family the pain of a messy trial or the fact that you were super fucked and to quote get less prison time let's fucking be honest chuck jesus christ don't i did it for it's all for the kids you know what i'm saying it's for the children i did it family man oh i don't want people you know dragging through the mud my wife's

gotta come i don't want inconvenience nobody the fuck out of here we got the same last night good yeah good god uh they described webner webner in court as a mid-level dealer but he said in court that he did not sell cocaine for personal profit and was personally only addicted for a short time okay which we know isn't true because he was so coked up in 1979 that Rocky that fucking Stallone couldn't put him in Rocky two, even though it was about him. That's how coked up he was. We can't have the inspiration on set because he's a fucking disaster. That's a lot here.

They said the conspiracy charge, which he pled guilty to, did include allegations that he had distributed cocaine, though. Guilty to did include allegations that he had distributed cocaine, though. The possession charge, though, that he pled guilty to was only the.37 grams of cocaine found in the search of his home. They just found a little bag with some residue in it in his home. Not even a gram. To him, that's nothing. He just threw it on the dresser, probably..37 grams?

.37. Not even a gram. So just a little bit of powder. That's the possession he's pleading to. They drop the more serious drug possession charges on the larger amounts of cocaine. That's part of the deal. So by pleading to these charges, the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office agreed to enter plea bargaining agreement with Wepner, under which the maximum prison term he can serve.

Before this, the maximum term was life he could have got. Holy shit. Now it is reduced from life to a maximum of 10 years he could possibly be sentenced to, which is still asinine. I'm not going to pay for you for 10 years because you wanted to do coke in a bar with scumbags. I don't care.

This is what I'm talking about. And 10 years for 0.37 grams is insanity. God, Jesus. I don't give a fuck. It would be cheaper to buy these people coke. That would be cheaper. I don't fucking care. I'm for pragmatism now.

I'm not for what's right. I don't fucking care. What's easier and cheaper for us? I don't give a fuck. Do all the coke you want and fucking drive off a bridge for all I give a fuck. I don't care. I'm not paying for anything else. We don't have any money for you.

Yes. For that. I'll pay for disabled people. I'll pay for fucking kids to get. I'll pay for all that shit. I'm not paying to fucking put people who are perfectly happy doing coke in a bar. I'm not going to pay for their fucking food and shelter for 10 years. That's ridiculous.

They were happy. For.37. Leave them the fuck alone. Yeah. Not even a half a gram. Ah, not even half a gram. Not even. That's pathetic.

That's like a little drop. Yeah. That guy's going to get eaten alive in prison for 10 years for.37 grams of Coke. You're going to make that man a way worse criminal by putting him in there with those criminals that's way that's more that's less coke than amber heard staged picture that he she had of that thing that one you know that picture that staged one that's obviously fucking staged she had more shit in the bed yeah no that one too but there's more there well that was like that looked like it was a half pounder at least. That was a good one. That was a QP for sure.

That was a turd. That was a turd. So anyway, that's the deal there. The prosecutors also agree to drop two other charges against him for the weapons as well. So he's going to be sentenced. He could receive a shortened sentence, probation, or even community service for this. Oh, okay. So, I mean, he could get off light here.

or even community service for this. So, I mean, he could get off light here. And he says, after he entered his guilty plea, for a period of several months during the fall of 1985, I became involved in the use of cocaine. That's what he said. That's all it was. He doesn't really admit to buying it, to selling it, though.

On his way out of the courtroom, on his plea here, he says that they're asking him all this they ask him all this shit and he said that he's no longer addicted to coke he said i've been over my problem for quite a while now now the his attorney says that this should be a lesson for young people he certainly feels guilt-ridden and certainly acknowledges his wrongdoing. They said he only started doing coke around the summer of 85. So he'd only been doing coke for four months, and he already had a quarter pound and was selling it to people. That's not how drugs work. Yeah, just in the summer of 85.

If you have a quarter pound and you're selling it to people, eight balls in your pocket, half a bag, little know scraps at home you know a lot of you do drugs you know a lot of drugs this is a lifestyle yeah it's not four months that's bullshit you're not even that's crazy um they say though that he had to undergo cancer surgery in the summer of 85 he had something removed from him that was like a cancerous something skin cancer or something no i was like in his i don't remember where it was but some kind of cancer but he was fine after that it was a just a growth they had to remove uh they said the stress of that caused him to do coke for a few months yeah and he liked it he liked it so much he bought a trunk full of it just to have it it was great um wow they said he's's undergone successful treatment for the cancer and the addiction, and he's fine. Let's get him some probation, some community service, and get him out on the street. Also indicted with him, Ralph Devone Jr.

Oh, Ralph Devone Jr., 24 years old, a Woodbridge, and Natalie Weinstein, 41, of East Brunswick, pleaded guilty to charges earlier in the year. Devone was sentenced to seven years in state prison. Wow. Weinstein got six months. Same charges, by the way. I don't know their backgrounds, though. I don't know who had a longer record or whatever, but that's fun. And then another individual here, a fourth Gustav Grill of Staten Island, is expected to appear in court and also.

So he's in court court and the judge says uh what do you predict oh jesus uh seven years seven years you think the same as before yeah okay well let's see you sir yeah may fuck off 10 years oh the max the max he gave a good judge gave jimmy and me 10 years like he was giving out candy. He gave him one of those. Gave him 10 years. 10. 0.37 grams.

Years. I think it's because he wouldn't admit he was selling it, so they banged him on that. That was part of it from what I understand here. He ends up only serving 18 months of 10 years, though. So that's not much. He said, and then he did like 20 years 20 months of post sentencing shit halfway house probation all that shit he said it was worse than anything in the ring though he said he hated it oh i'm sure you think he said i'm not copping a plea but i

did a favor for someone and i got busted that's what he said he's like listen i i was carrying it for somebody they said hey bring this over here but you know that's that's how it goes but he did cop a plea he did cop a plea he said the feds wanted me to talk they said they'd go easy on me if i did but i'd never been a rat in my life and i told him i wasn't going to start now okay that's why i got 10 years because he told him i'm not giving you shit um he said during his second day in jail, he said right away an inmate. He didn't really know who he was, I don't think, the inmate. And he says, quote, this guy comes up to me and says, if you cause me any trouble, it'll cost you two packs of cigarettes a week. To Wepner.

Oh, yeah. He said, quote, this is Wepner. This is his second day in prison, by the way, Wepner. So he's good and pissed off at this point. He said, I was in kind of a sour mood anyway so I gave him the back of my hand didn't even punch him just backhanded him

they gave me some time in solitary for that but nobody ever bothered me again I would say that oh that's the guy who knocked Ali down let's not fight him have y'all seen Rocky yeah holy shit so he said that it was hell.

I thought everyone would turn their backs on me while I was in there. So he was very paranoid. Sly comes to see him in jail. Wow. Now, not just for that, though. He's filming the 1989 film Lockup there. And he films it at the same prison where fucking Wepner was. Where Wepner's at, yeah.

Yeah, he said Stallone spent two days shooting the movie there, and Wepner was serving time for his offenses, and he says, quote, I actually did go down to see Stallone. When he came to the jail to do lockup, the warden came to get me and said, Chuck, he's here, he's here. I said, who?

And he said, Sylvester Stallone. He's going to film parts of his movie here let's go down and see him he's not having the regular prison experience we'll just say the warden doesn't come up to people and go hey are things coming come on man we'll go and then they skip off into the fucking hills with the balloons in their hand that's not the normal jail experience i don't think he's getting here you're fucking kidding me jesus alone just doing all all the things that wepner did except making a shit shitload of money for doing it that's the difference he's just following his life he said we went down to see him and stallone gave

me a hug and said chuck is there anything i can get you i said yeah how about a rope ladder the warden left but the captain of the guards suicide about no climb out of there rope ladder oh not a fucking okay i thought you said rope and ladder no rope ladder to climb down rope and ladder so i can hang myself the warden left but the captain of the guard said don't be a wise ass i watched them filming in the next day uh and then he finished his shots and that was it he personally filmed it there because he knew i was in jail there he could have picked anyone at 10 prisons yeah so that's the one so here he is he's in prison he's got things are there's good things happening the warden treats him fine and he's you know very lucky and all that sort of thing but he's also there's also problems in prison

jimmy sure the main problem is with the plumbing it's always backed up always backed up they have very lucky and all that sort of thing. But he's also, there's also problems in prison, Jimmy. Sure. The main problem is with the plumbing. It's always backed up, always backed up. They have to bring somebody in to rectify it. It's a bad word when we're talking about plumbing. They bring in Paul Calhoun, shit pipe enthusiast.

And he says, how is it you come to arrive here? What the fuck? I know you. Yeah, you sold me an eight ball at the bar like three nights ago. I know. Why do you think I clean shit pipes and smack wives? I'm coked out of my fucking mind. You know that now.

Come on. What are we doing? What are you getting out of here? I need more. I don't know where the fuck to go. I'm coked out of my fucking mind. You know that now. Come on. What are we doing? What are you getting out of here? I need more. I don't know where the fuck to go. I see you at the bar. I'm like this fucking guy. You know, because I'm always clean. Yeah, I'm always unclogging that shitter in the one place.

Remember the one time I was like, hey, Chuck, can you get out of here with your blowjob? I got to unclog that toilet. Remember that? That's me. Good to see you again. That's right. And then he sold me an eight ball. Absolutely.

All right. Yeah. And then we did it off that girl's tits and then she blew me and then i unclogged the other toilet it was wonderful but uh also get your shit together man what are you fucking doing come on just admit to it you wouldn't got 10 years you're being a jerk off i can't do this with you you know what you're gonna have to shit in your unclogged toilet i'm gonna go i gotta go to uh cincinnati on the runway there's a there's a plane with a backup problem there's some guy up there about to dunk a fucking a red jacketed delta reps head and right in the fucking shit i gotta take off right now bye see you later poof and in a barrage of shit and pipes he's gone yeah and

chuck is extremely confused and he's like maybe i did have brain damage from this. Can you imagine if somebody wrote a story about two guys that make podcasts and made a billion dollars off of it? I'd be furious. And everything we've ever done. They're filming in the Toso's parking lot. You're like, fuck you. Hey. I'd be furious. absolutely furious if that ever happened if we ever got to make a movie like that yeah i i would like to control it by casting terrible people for people who i want to fuck with

that would be fun that's what i would do i'd be so mad if somebody was living the high life. With limited acting and speaking ability. Oh, I don't know, Chuck. Oh, my God, I'd be so mad. Hey, Chuck, you know, this movie and everything, I don't know, you know, what we're going to be doing, but I bought an island. Did I tell you I bought an island? It's pretty good. Look at my face.

If you're ever out of prison, you should come. You know? It's me. Frank will be there. My mother, who's the craziest fucking ball. You know. I'd be so mad. You would.

Fucking ridiculous. Holy shit. So by 95, he's out of prison he's doing great okay he's a liquor salesman and uh he's got contacts all over new jersey he's mr new jersey he's got his he's on his third wife by now oh boy he lives in a condo along the shore of newark bay he's doing great uh he says he's a neat freak because he was in the Marines there. He loves it. His living room overlooks the Bayonne High School football

stadium where he knocked out George Cooper in the third round of his pro debut. So he can see where his former glory. Where it all started. I only made $200, but I was excited anyway. I was fighting in front of my friends. Yeah.

It was hometown. So he says he's always traveling around. He attends card shows and visits gyms in the area. He's also not a guy named Jim. He visits Jim, checks in on him, makes sure he's doing well. All the gyms in the neighborhood. All the gyms, just Jim. I'm going to go to the Franks next week, and we've got Jim now.

He said he's always telling the young boxers to learn something that he dismissed as a kid. Defense. He goes, learn how to protect your head. He said, I was a banger, a rough guy. You got to whack, but it takes more than that. It takes more than just punching. He said, I always gave my best, and the people appreciated it. I was 35, 14, and 2, but all my losses were in the ring.

I never lost a fight on a street or in a back alley. Okay. I would believe that. He does insist that he knocked Ali down cleanly. And he said, the referee agrees with me. He believes it so fervently that on his business cards shows a picture of Ali struggling to get up off the canvas. He immortalized that moment on his business cards.

Not bad. Yeah. He said up to that point, I thought it was a real close fight. Then I started getting tired. I just didn't have anything left by the end. Um, so he was already, you know, everyone knew who he was before that. But, uh, he said since then he goes, people still come up to me and ask for autographs. Hey, I was a colorful guy.

Not bad. Yeah, he says he's doing well. He says that he partied for a long time. He hung out with guys who were feeding off his fame. He had some bad habits. He said, when you're a celebrity, everywhere you go, people are after you for this and that. You get sucked into this lifestyle. You start hanging around clubs.

I drank. I did cocaine, but I never sold it. Never tried to sell it. Oh, God. We know that's not true. Come on, Chuck. He said that he found out that after his arrest and his jailing, he said, I made a mistake and I paid for it.

I think people can respect you if you have problems and try to overcome them. I learned my lesson and now I try to enlighten the kids about drug problems. I've been clean for 10 years. I never went to rehab, which he said in court that he did. His lawyer did. I've changed my whole lifestyle. I have a beer every once in a while, but that's it. It's been amazing.

I got my old job back and I'm friendly friendly with the police and everything i'm honest now i stay away from the people that i had been hanging around with i got a whole new life now they're probably dead by now those people are you kidding me um he says that he's maybe he yearns for his old life uh at least the part that he spent in the ring but he's thinking about the world ultimate challenge later in the year that's a contest that basically it's like a fucking it's a giant tough man is what it was um participants fight in a steel cage with no rules or gloves he's almost 60 yeah he's almost 60 he says everything goes kicking biting gouging 60 year old man it's right up my alley oh god oh my god he said well they said why would

you do that at your age he said for the money it's a tournament and the winner can make more than fifty thousand dollars oh god i'll go gouge some fucking eyes out i don't care he said he makes a comfortable living and uh he said he could be a millionaire if he had only taken the percentage of the profits that stallone offered him for Rocky. Okay. He said he went with a flat fee instead. And, of course, the movie went on to become a huge hit. Right.

If you're a street guy, you go, so you're offering me maybe money or you're offering me a check. I'll take the fucking check. And back then, if somebody says this could be millions or 50 grand now grand now, back then, who's ever seen a million dollars? I think it was Donald Sutherland for Animal House did the same thing. They offered him 10 points on the back end of Animal House, and he said that he thought it was a shit movie. So he goes, I'll take the 50,000 now, thank you. Donald! And at some point point they did the calculation

he would have made like 35 million dollars or some crazy shit off of it like highest paid person ever for that movie he said that's more money that i would made my entire other career but i took 50 grand instead because you know i was a name so they offered it to me yeah so uh he said that um it's not just for the money i'd like to be known as the toughest guy in the world, and I know I can win. In his 50s. In his 50s, like 58. He says his wife, is this his wife? Yeah, his wife Linda here says, quote, look, I know Chuck's in great shape, but I know he's tough.

Of course I don't want to see him do it. I'd rather he didn't. But how can you tell someone not to do what he feels he has to do? Yeah. Yeah. He said, I do love my life, and it feels good not to bleed anymore. That's the only thing that is keeping him away from doing it. He said, I've never liked the name, but it was something that stuck with me.

I guess it's nice that people remember. And let's face it, 27 years after you fought for the title, you're still being interviewed. That's something. It is. Fair. It is. This is fucking funny. He says, quote, this is on women quote this is just a kind of a potpourri of chuck isms here i used to date a girl had a horse far

had a horse out on staten island what's that stable you know what they say about five the stable it's in he never answers just goes what that stable? And then goes on to the next thing. I used to date a girl. Had a horse out on Staten Island. What's that stable? You know what they say about fiery redheads. He just goes on to that. That one was a real whack job. What?

I woke up one morning and she had a gun pointed in my face and she said she's gonna kill me. I say, honey, put down the gun. say honey you gotta get off the booze and get the help you need jesus christ he talks about some ex-girlfriends of him of his some he met at the quote black garter and rendezvous these are two clubs that he had a piece of in staten island so he had pieces of strip clubs of course he was doing coke in there are you kidding me my god banging the strippers ah he said the running around ended when he married linda here he said he knew she was in charge uh when she showed he showed up at her bar i guess

she had a bar she told him to stand in line and wait for a drink just like everybody else you're not a big shot here pal and uh so he's like i like this one yeah he's like all right hey you're bleeding all you did you just scratched your eyebrow you're bleeding profusely he said don't get me wrong i love women i think they're the most beautiful loveliest creatures god has put on this earth but i've had a lot of trouble with women a lot of whack jobs out there all right then they ask him about coke he says this was the 80s it was everywhere he said um uh i thought i was untouchable i thought because i was chuck wepner everybody liked me so they wouldn't bust me he said that was the last time

i ever did cocaine that was 18 years ago i didn't give up anyone unlike all the all these weasels and rats he didn't tell on anybody is what he's saying. He talks to dare classes in Bayonne and tells them, you hurt yourself, that's one thing. God forbid you hurt somebody else. God, that's so New Jersey. God forbid. In 2000,

he's making anti-drug speeches and he says this to the, he sits kids down and says this quote I'm not going to tell you to go through your whole life without taking a drink that shit's great he said with drugs it's hard to stay away from them they're all around you just gotta say

no and walk away terrible advice and walk away that's easy sure no problem he talks he talks about Muhammad Ali. He talks about Rocky. He talks about all that shit. Yeah.

There's a councilman there who says, he was really cool. I'm a big boxing fan. I'm glad he came. And then Michelle Martin, who teaches the fourth grade class who he told that to. Yeah. I'm not going to tell you yous aren't going to get drunk. All right? Yous are going to be alcoholics.

But what I'm saying is don't walk away from coke walk away from it kids say no no your limitations is the thing you know you try to balance coke and booze but sometimes you go a little high on one a little low on the other you gotta fucking balance yourself out is all i'm saying these are literal children for their nine these these kids and the teacher said this is exactly the right message for the kids to hear okay sure exactly the right message exactly 2002 he's driving around he's working for the liquor place still he's driving around in his lincoln town car with a champ vanity license plate oh no his plate says champ on it here um yeah he likes to to go to McDonald's in the morning, he says, to get coffee.

And he says, because I walk in and I'm the youngest guy in the place. They got all these retirees hanging out at McDonald's. I walk in and they call me Sonny and I feel like a million bucks. Because they have cheap coffee and you can sit there. And he's old. Very much so. Basically, this is his stat line. 336 career stitches, he said.

That's not bad. That's pretty impressive. Yeah. And 11 nose breaks. Yikes. Jesus Christ, man. That's wild. That's fucking wild.

He said, we got some tough guys. Oh, this is when he said, but in bars, telephone booths and bathrooms, I'm undefeated. He said at one point in a different phrase of his other one where people are very intoxicated. I beat the shit out of them. Well, this is smart. He said what I used to do. I'd wait until a guy went into the bathroom where there's less room to move around. Then I punch his lights out.

Once he's trapped you in a small fucking porcelain room he gets to knock you out did you fall against the urinal street yeah holy shit man um he said that he's always been a decent provider but not much of a husband he says he still stays close to his three children and even when he has his annual christmas party his two ex-wives are always invited to he tries to stay close to them um his friends um told him he should hook up with his third wife linda he had brief dated her briefly 15 years before they got married really and then uh yeah she said she was tending bar and uh that was when she said go to the back of the line they dated for three years and then got married later, though. She said, I liked Chuck years ago, but I don't share.

He's a little older now, and he has passed the test. He made some mistakes, but they're all behind him. And as a reward, he got me. So there you go. She said she helps him with his roots and his business has been really good. They sold enough Italian wine this year to win a whirlwind tour of Italy. Great. All the way to Italy.

Yeah. He said he's doing great. Yeah. He's getting, he's goes to plays golf in Atlantic city, does all sorts of shit. He said, I was never a great pop boxer or a great puncher. I was a very well conditioned guy who could take a real good punch and wear

guys down. He said, we go to Vegas two or three times a year to Atlantic city, 15 times a year. I've always lived large. I drive the best cars. I wear nice clothes. I have jewelry when I go out.

I'm as good or better off than 90% of the guys who fought in my era. Because he always had a good job all the way through. He's got a good job. He's got like a decent actual job. 2003, very quickly, he sues Sylvester Stallone. Of course he does. He does. They said the action arises out of the continuous and current violation of Wepner's rights of publicity of defendant Sylvester Stallone. Throughout the years to date, Stallone has used the plaintiff's name to promote the motion picture Rocky,

its four sequels, and among other things, products associated with Rocky line of movies, including the character of Rocky Balboa. associated with Rocky line of movies, including the character of Rocky Balboa. He said Stallone was inspired to write the script for the motion picture Rocky as a result of viewing and the circumstances surrounding the Chuck Webner, Webner, Muhammad Ali fight in 1975. Upon information and belief, the Rocky movie, including the four sequels, has generated gross revenues in excess of $1 billion. Yeah. Stallone has confused and continued to use the name of Chuck Wepner in the promotion of the Rocky line of movies and Rocky franchise without Wepner's express permission and without compensating Wepner. Stallone uses the name of Wepner for marketing and commercial purposes by capitalizing on the fact that Rocky is based on a true story,

namely Wepner's such a a use is for the purpose of adding an element of reality and credibility to the Rocky movies and to, among other things, attract a new generation of fans and moviegoers. This blatant misappropriation of Wepner's name by Stallone has the effect of depriving Wepner of past and future compensation for the contribution he's made to the Rocky franchise and Stallone's career.

Okay. Now he wants to cut like a manager here. They also talk about the night of March 24th, 75. Stallone witnessed the fight between him and Muhammad Ali on closed circuit television. According to him, Wepner's courageous performance was the catalyst. According to him, Wepner's courageous performance was the catalyst, this is according to Stallone, that inspired him to write a script based on Wepner's experience both prior to and during his fight against Ali. Over the next several days immediately following the fight, Stallone penned the script for the movie Rocky with the character of Rocky Balboa based upon Chuck wepner several months after wepner's fight with ali stallone telephone wepner to inform him he had written a movie script in just three days after being inspired by wepner's

performances against ali indeed on numerous occasions many times in the presence of others defendant stallone has referred to wepner as quote my inspiration so um then they talk about the special edition rocky dvd the print materials found in the packaging disc, as well as an interview visible while watching the DVD. Wepner's name is mentioned as having provided inspiration to the defendant for going the full 15 rounds against heavyweight Muhammad Ali. So that's all written in there. You can't have one or the other. It can't have one or the other. So on one occasion, Stallone invited Wepner to come to Philadelphia to read for the part of Ching Weber, a part Defendant had written in the script of Rocky II.

Although plaintiff Wepner read for the part, it was ultimately cut out of the movie. So, yeah. As a Rocky franchise is concerned, Defendant has stated to Wepner, there will be something in this for you. But apparently not. So apparently there will be something in this for you, but apparently not. So apparently there was a lot of this. By the way, Stallone wrote this earlier through fate or whatever. I ended up at the Chuck Muhammad Ali Chuck Wepner fight. It was called a public joke. This is right from Stallone.

Wepner would barely go three rounds. Most of the prediction said, well, the history books will read that he went 15 rounds. He can hold his head up high forever no matter what happens. I'm sure that moment meant more to him than any money could ever receive from fighting. Later that night, I went home and had the beginning of my character. I had him now. I was going to make a creation called Rocky Balboa, a man from the streets, a walking cliche of sorts, the all-American tragedy, a man who didn't have much mentality but had incredible emotion and patriotism and spirituality what the fuck does patriotism have to do with it well he wore the red and white and blue that's why it was the fourth of july they were fighting

on yeah that's what uh yeah later on he wore those in the other movies he wore like gold trunks in the first one he did that for apollo creed apollo creed came out dressed like uncle sam for christ's sake he came out That's why he wore the red, white, and blue later for Apollo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Later for Apollo, yeah, because remember in 4, when he fought Drago, Apollo came out to fucking Living in America. Right. Living in America. I think he was in the movie,

James Brown. He may have been. So, yeah, he said, blah, blah, blah. Wepner said Stallone called him after writing the script, told him he inspired him, invited him to attend the premiere, blah, blah, blah. When Stallone filmed Copland in 97, near his home,

Wepner came to the set. He called Robert De Niro over and said, do you know who this is? And he's patting me on the back and hugging me and kissing me. Like, this is the real Rocky. So he says he does fine. He doesn't need the money,

but what's right is right. He says that, yeah so he says he does fine he doesn't need the money but what's right is right he says that um yeah he's got a site uh you know he makes money with uh you know the real rocky website where he has an autographed 8x10 for 89 he says i live large this isn't about money he says it's about respect it's very new jersey it's about respect it's about broken promises it's a shame i really like it in my estalone but i just got fed up after years and years of frustration after seeing rocky movie after rocky movie i have gotten to the end of the line yeah nothing for nothing i make a good living i drive beautiful cars i live a very good life he he fucking bookended it with that shit yeah i'm everything i need yep he's got a uh

he's got his coupe de ville he's very happy he says um his wife even his wife says his car is a pimp car it's a nice car he says she says it looks like a pimp car i say i like it i want to be flashy i want people to see it i want people to say that's chuck's car there he is there he is anyway stallone ends up settling in the U.S. District Court. He settles for an undisclosed amount. They never release it. I wonder how much it is. I think it was just bad publicity for Stallone to just pay the guy off.

Who cares? Give him a fuck. Stallone has, he just was selling a house for $75 million fucking dollars. He's fine. Throw Wepner a million dollars. He'll run off fucking happy as shit. A million dollars? Who cares?

He will leak to the bank. Yeah, it's nothing. And I guarantee you, he could get that added to, he can get a studio to pay that on the next Rocky movie. For sure. As part of their budget to pay him back. It's all part of the franchise. He's not paying it out of his pocket, for Christ's sake.

2005, 2006. Whatever it was, he should have disclosed it because that's the franchise. He's not paying it out of his pocket for Christ's sake. 2005, 2006. He should have disclosed it because that's great publicity. It's great. Yeah, absolutely. I gave him more money to give him the better you look. So 2005, 2006 he ends up being arrested for mail fraud Chuck. Oh no. He's not

good now. Let's just put it that way. This is something we've talked about and if you have Patreon you'd know all about this. This was Operation Bullpen. Remember that? That was the counterfeit autograph and memorabilia. He was involved in it. Remember where that was? New Jersey. Yeah. New York. Yeah, he was involved in it. Oh, my God. the FBI released details regarding a guilty plea entered by Chuck Wepner here over this.

The files were sealed until recently. Press reveals this is from an article press release shows that Wepner entered a guilty plea for conspiring to commit mail fraud. He admitted to selling memorabilia forged by John Olson, who pled guilty in 2003 and received three years probation. Those sales taking place from June 96 through March 2002. He was selling bullshit autographs for everybody thought for everyone, but not

his own, but other people's. They all thought he was real because he's Chuck Wepner. Wow. So it must be real, but he was just a part of it. It's the same shit. This is I'd much rather you sell coke. At least that's honest. Want some coke? Okay, here's some money. Here's some coke. That's an honest transaction. I'd much rather you sell Coke. At least that's honest. Want some Coke? Okay, here's some money. Here's some Coke.

That's an honest transaction. It doesn't hurt anybody not trying to get hurt. Oh, man. Among the items sold were Champions Forever boxing posters. Gold-inked versions are forged, by the way, if you're looking for one of those. That's how you can tell. The Champions Forever forgeries were exposed in 96 by Sports Collector's Digest, which quoted Wepner as saying

the forgeries were purchased from another party. He said, though, in 96, quote, John Olsen is a good kid. He buys things in good faith and sometimes he gets stuck. They acted like he got fucked over

by somebody else and it got passed on to Wepner. Meanwhile, he's fucking making them or having other people make them on purpose it's a giant fucking scam um he's he's got to enter a guilty plea here um they let's see here oh yeah they were indicted in san diego on 13 counts of all this shit this gins brian ginsburg and john olsen and uh olsen was quoted on an fbi press release saying ginsburg paid him and wepner about 117 000 for forged memorabilia so yeah um that was fucking that's ridiculous so in a related case another one uh michael de sola of madison sports

pled guilty in march of 2004 to mail fraud, again, related to forged autographs, mostly Muhammad Ali's, and again, in another case. So everybody's getting all this. Everybody's going, this was a giant FBI operation. It was spearheaded by FBI to target sellers of counterfeit sports and celebrity memorabilia in San Diego and nationwide, and we did a great Patreon on it. There's also a 30 for 30 on it as well so during all of this there's you know everybody's scrambling through all this on the fucking the the actual website the news website reporting it

on the comments okay you gotta scroll sometimes there are this is from 16 years ago, it says. Yeah, there's a comment from anonymous that says, do we do you know where we can get a list of auctions which Ginsburg participated in and or specific lists of the items he sold? I'm supposedly a defendant in this case, and I'd like to know which of these items in my possession are fakes. Holy fucking shit. that's hilarious so wepner has to go to court for this he is sentenced to he pled guilty now mind you you sir may fuck off one day in jail what which he already served so it's time served he already when they arrested, they count that for a day. 90 days home confinement and a $2,000 fine. Chuck, you never do that again. Bad boy, they just said.

Unbelievable. Wow. He faced up to five years for this. Thousands of dollars. Roll in a mail order scam to sell fake autographs of Muhammad Ali and other fighters. Yes, they believed it from him because he fucking fought him. Goddamn ridiculous. So, yeah, it's silly. Brian Ginsberg was the owner of a sports memorabilia store in Long Island, New York,

and he was the mastermind of all this bullshit. And that's how that goes. So 2011, there's a real Rocky documentary on ESPN, kind of how everybody knows about his story from that. And then Stallone, by the way, said, in my opinion, oh, no, this is the filmmaker here, said, in my opinion, Sylvester Stallone hijacked Chuck Wepner's soul. This film is my attempt to help Chuck get his soul back. Calm down. Yeah, relax.

Calm the fuck down. So they aired that in 2011 october 2011 2016 there's a huge lawsuit not for him but for two competing movies both trying to make a movie about him oh my god this is chuck and the brawler one is leave schreiber one is zach mcgowan that's how these two movies are okay those those are the two Chuck Wepners in these movies. Liev McGowan. Liev Schreiber is going to play him? Did.

The movie Chuck, I guess it was. I guess it happened already. I didn't know about it. Zach McGowan played him in The Brawler. So, yeah, they were both made. They were suing each other because they said they didn't know they were making competing stories and all this. This happens in Hollywood all the fucking time. There's only so many stories.

There's only so many fucking stories, yeah. But the lawsuit says comparison between the two scripts, sizzle reels, and marketing materials makes it clear that defendants use portions of or all of plaintiff's script, budget, production schedule, sizzle reel, and other production materials to develop their own copycat film, which defendants apparently intended to release before the authorized Wepner film. So that's how it works. Lawsuit also claims that they tried to lure Schreiber and screenwriter away from the bleeder to work on their project. So whatever. 2017, 2017 chuck that's the schreiber one there um there naomi naomi watts is in it plays linda wepner yeah um he says wepner says the movie took five years to make schreiber did a great job i made the right pick i took the

upfront money as usual which i shouldn't't have. The film is still playing. You can get it on Netflix. You didn't learn your fucking lesson the first time. You took fucking upfront money? Bro, believe in your story. Believe in yourself. Yeah. Believe in yourself.

Because we've been offered upfront money. Or we'll take fucking our righteous percentage, actually. Yeah. That's what we'll take. Because we believe in ourselves. That's what you do. So anyway, he ends up in 2018. He's diagnosed with rectal cancer.

Oh, no. He had surgery to remove the affected tissue. He said they took out two and a half pounds of stuff. Yikes. Then he had chemo. Two and a half pounds of this asshole. Oh, my God. Jesus.

Up in there somewhere. He had chemo and 30 days of radiation. He lost 30 pounds from it and all that sort of thing he said um but it's hard the whole thing is hard the healing process he said one day i'm constipated the next day i have diarrhea yeah um plus i lost the weight i don't have any energy i lost my mojo you don't feel like doing anything if you get up in the morning and you do have three or four hours of sleep you just don don't have any pep. Well, yeah. He said most of the stuff I lost was muscle mass. Unfortunately, you can see my arm. I've never had that. And he said he had jiggly skin under there.

He also had spinal stenosis, a major back surgery and a hip replacement recently. A lot of problems. He said it's been a fun time for the last five or six years they talk about the golden years but my golden years haven't been too great but i'm still here um 2021 he has stage three colon cancer now it's back he said i'm done with chemo i've had three operations i went through radiation and now i'm just watching my diet my doctor has me eating rice apples and bananas he said half a dozen doctors over the past three years haven't thrown in the towel yet. So he's ready to do it here. He tries to keep a normal schedule.

He's still a liquor salesman. What? Yep. He says that he needs to do it. He wants to stick with it. Makes him feel normal and like he's doing it. His third wife also works for them as well. The same allied beverage group

he said uh they meaning allied are the biggest in the state linda's been at there for 28 years she's one of the superstars for the company he's doing well but he's not doing well he's still alive right now at 83 years old real 83 in 2022 by the way as as of 2022, as of now, there is funding in place for completion of a statue of Chuck to be placed in Stephen R. Gregg Park in Bayonne Park. They better hurry it the fuck up if they want him to see it. If they want him there. Can't get enough of Chuck Wepner? Well, there's plenty. Check out a lot of his fights.

They're entertaining to watch. Check out the last few rounds of the Ali fight. See if you think the knockdown was a slip or not you can get his autograph it looks like i don't know what the fuck this is or if this is real or not but it seems to say it's real um yeah i don't know whatever star tiger.com has these autographs of people i don't know if that's like a site that talks to him or what but also uh joss sports inc jos sports inc you can buy his business card this is on the ground no no this is a different one this is a completely different deal here this is uh what is this when is this from um last chapters oh wow it's a pharmaceutical company he's working for it is a

bi-coastal pharmaceutical corp consultants brokers chuck webb uh wepner vp of public relations former naba heavyweight champion inspiration for rocky movies that's on his business card and then it says a red bank new jersey address and a fax number and a regular number who i'm buying fucking syringes from what is he talking about oh my god includes a photo on back of ali and wepner in the ring he puts a look i prove it i fought ali um it is 65 so you can get that for or you can get his autograph who the fuck knows if that's real jesus christ at this point autograph signed where is this i don't know history for sale.com autograph signed photograph of chuck wepner uh with ollie punching him in the face and his hair popping up in the air

108 dollars for that so there it is that everybody is chuck wepner and that is crime and sports well that's the story anyway it's fucking insane right yeah it's a long so i would fucking he's been around since the 60s it's a 60 year career so far with us so there he is that is chuck wepner if you like that story god damn it tell everybody you ever fucking met why don't you tell them all tell them all and sit them down and hold their little eyes open like clockwork orange and their little ears too so they can hear their eyes really don't matter but their ears that's important yeah so they can hear stuff airpods into their ears and handcuff their hands behind their back and make them listen do all of that check it out give us a review by the

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follow us on social media or at crime and sports on twitter and facebook at small town murder on instagram and patreon my god patreon.com slash crime and sports so much good stuff anybody five dollars or above not only you're going to get a shout out which we're going to do in a second of course but you are going to also get insane bonus shit and lots of bonus shit you're going to get small town murders bonus shit as well as crime and sports bonus shit then even more shit you're gonna get our backlog of shit a whole shit pipe full of it 150 something

episodes just a shit pipe full of shit you're gonna get it'll be shit stacked on top of shit stacked on top of shit and you can get it all for five dollars a month plus we're gonna tell you you're a good person with a shout out you can't beat it it's the best value ever this week your episodes are going to be for crime and sports we're going to talk about the downfall of bobby knight the he was a superstar you know most respected coach going john wooden of the fucking 80s basically they tried to make him out and no he's a huge asshole way different than john wooden not a nice guy and we'll talk about what mean what ruined his career and made him end up at Texas Tech rather than fucking wherever it was.

The Red Raiders, whoever they are, rather than Indiana. Yeah. That's where he was at first. I was trying to think of what Texas Tech's. Oh, shit. The Red Raiders, I think they are. I think that's what it is. So check that out.

But then for small town murders, which you'll get access to and it's shit you'll be interested in. We're going to talk about a nearly 30 year old documentary that is you can still watch it on hbo max i'm sure it's on youtube it is lock up rikers island it's the quintessential boy is a kernel of all the other prison documentaries man it is it's the real shit where everyone's like god damn is that what it's like before that they'd have like 60 minutes would do shit on prison. But it wasn't like somebody come in here. Fuck with me. I'll rape their face. Like nobody said that on 60 minutes.

They cut that part out. And we're like, you know, in prison, you need to, you know, it's hard to get nutrition. They did like stuff like that. It wasn't like real shit. 60 minutes never said now crouch and cough. Yeah. He never saw that shit. And we're going to talk about other prison stuff, too, that we've heard about compared

different states and countries and all that kind of shit. So check saw that shit. And we're going to talk about other prison stuff, too, that we've heard about compared to different states and countries and all that kind of shit. So check all that out. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And, of course, you're going to get a shout out. As a matter of fact, you're going to get a shout out right fucking now. I think it's time, Jimmy, hit me with them, but don't make me bleed all over the place like Chuck Wepner. Right to the face. Come on, Jimmy.

This week's executive producers are Cody Leversig, John and Susan McQuilkin. Happy birthday, Brittany. No last name. Happy birthday, Brittany. But if you need to know who you are, you are Melanie's Jimmy to her James. That should give you enough clues because that's all the information I have. You're the drunk one. That's what that means.

Adam Jones, Jordan Bennett, Rebecca Aubrey, Will and Maddie, weed saviors of Detroit. Do you remember them? I do. Wonderful people. Thank you so much. Thank you. Dakota Plain, Paul in the UK. And our other producers this week are Corporal Carl Kirshner, Peyton Meadows.

Peyton Meadows, isn't it? It is Meadows. I think it is Peyton Meadows. Robert Hortelling. That's a fascinating name. Hortell, please. Hortell. Happy Hour taking his life into his own That's a fascinating name. Hortel, please. Hortel. Happy hour, taking his life into his own hands on a cruise ship.

Darren Michal and Jess Stope just got married. Happy marriage. Congratulations. Happy marriage. We're the reason they know each other. Frank the South African Birdwasher. Janice Hill. Diane Taylor.

Fighter of the Nightman, James. That is Dayman, correct? The Dayman, obviously, clearly, yes. Jeremy, Marie Nuss, Oladipo, Jibawu? Jibawu. Oladipo, that's all I do know because I watch basketball. Donald Bowles, Jason Zeke, Mike Welshans, Eaton Beaver, I hope you're proud of yourself, Emily McCarthy, Tom Regan,

Lisa Ross, Todd Elliott, Jamie Hama, John Boone Michael Doney, Catherine Bartolomucci The Mooch, that's who it is Ann Rieger, Daniel The Concert Photographer, Jake Hamm Malik Delfish Oh boy, Chris Lynn

Chris Lynn Stewart, Matthew Boone Lee Frenzy, Eric Lemons D Thad Art, Cassie, nope, that's just Cass Robbins, Dark with no last name, Lieutenant Dan's Legs, Kyle Oliver, Rebecca Caporos, Chris Richter, what is it? Capacol. Dr. T. Jr., Daniel Davis, Alec Craig, Hannah Sosolowski, Courtney Forrester, Aaron Nelson, Taylor Nakakehara, Teresa Von Eberstein, Dave Henry, Alice Cordova-Potter, Roger Won Bunn, Janice Trufant, Bosco with no last name,

Sissy Romero, Corey Euling, Jamie Stevenson, Maja Lindbergh, I think, Logan Ryan, Madison Borth, Stevenson, Maja Lindbergh, I think, Logan Ryan, Madison Borth, Cleed with no last name, Bethany Latch, Jordan Rasch, Connor Fugate, Sandra Stalke, Peter Della Penna, Kalen Kala Bodnovich, I don't know, Eric Honesty, Kermit Paddock, I think it's Honesty, it may have been something else and that was corrected to that, I don't kermit paddock uh jeff wyman dustin huffman uh maddie fitzgerald nicole rhodes rain 55 nicky jameson alicia alicia obviously uh mount did you say dustin huffman dustin huffman oh the poor bastard you could he could i know you could uh use that as some marketing somewhere scam somebody somewhere scam somebody somewhere. Dustin Hoffman will be there. People will show up and be like, who the fuck are you? I don't look like him or anything.

Devin T., Melissa Hardman, Andre the Midget, Rissa Rue, Jeremy Underwood, Marissa Bourse, Megan Press, Amanda Schmitz, Jennifer with no last name, Randy Warmeister, Mr. Pyro, Bacca Yamakokoro. Yeah, you got Warm, Mr. Pyro, Baka, Baka, Baka, Mako, Karo. Yeah, you got it to me. Joseph Luciano, SG, Kyle Henley, Lizzie Miller, Joshua Gray, Adam Vasquez, Bridget McLemore, Robert Goins, Cindy Ross, Brandon Zuni, Katie Mertes, Sarah Warren Aver, BigPimpin25, Haley, Tegan, Lucas. Those are all first names. Scott Fox, John Moravetz, PlaysWithScissors, John Carey, Amy Bella Belter, Sarah Mack, Matthew Pierce, David Gillespie, Guido Pudi, maybe Putty, I don't know. Beth Farrington, oh boy, Farrington, Laura Blackberg, Locke Holmes,

Heather Guthrie, Brenda Dunn, Ja Crow, yes, Noah Marsters, Sebastian Hartley, it's really coming undone, Lisa Cordova Gomez, Pamela Doyle, Michael with no last name, Johanna Simpson, Jade Freeberg, Katie Johnson, Michael with no last name, Johanna Simpson, Jade Freeberg, Katie Johnson, Lance with no last name, Michael Ross, Diana Sigsbee, Z411811. Could be somebody's employee number. I don't know. Erica Clifton, Lola M., Ryan Wheeler, Tiffany Custer, Stephen Sowell, Jason Barham, and Brian and Stephanie Kirchhoff. Thank you guys so much, especially you and also all of our patrons.

You're amazing. Thank you, everybody. Honestly, from the bottom of our goddamn hearts, we really, really do appreciate it. Thank you so much. We. Wow. We're just blown away by all of your support and everything like that. So thank you. And, you know, keep coming back. We'll keep dishing out the Patreon and the regular stuff. You're making it. Keep checking us out.

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