Crime in Sports - #376 - Bumps, Brain Damage & Brutality - "Rockin' Rebel" Charles Williams

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

This week, we look at an original member of the ECW (Extreme Championship Wrestling) crew, who never quite broke through to the level that he wanted. He continued to wrestle on the independent circuit, until committing one of the worst acts anybody could commit. Apparent brain damage, mixed with a short temper, and penchant for manipulation all seemed to come together to make this guy a human nightmare!Start on the ground floor of a soon to be popular enterprise, hold your wife hostage, in a closet, then do something that there is no coming back from with "Rockin' Rebel" Charles Williams!!Check us out, every Tuesday!We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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A first listen is waiting for you when you start your free trial at audible.ca. The Queen of the Courtroom is back. How did I know that? i have crystal ball in my head new cases leave her a long so uh this is not a so this is a period classic judy it's streaming you can say anything it's an all-new season judy justice only on freebie Hello everybody and welcome back to Crime and Sports. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on more Crime and Sports. We have a very fun episode this week. Oh, terrific. A brain-damaged man in a brain-damaged sport, and a guy who did something absolutely terrible. So it'll be very fun. Won't be our longest show here.

No, no, no. Because a lot of the when someone's not immensely famous, it's very hard to find a lot of details because no one bothers to document them. You know what I mean? It won't sell papers, friend. It's one of those. But then what he does is like, whoa, that was a lot. So it's crazy. We'll get into it.

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against your UPS guy and see how it turned out. And it turns out about how you'd think it would, with a lot of hurt, injured UPS guys laying all over the turf. So that's a lot of fun. A lot of workman's comp being fired. Oh, yeah. We'll talk all about that. And then for Small Town Murder, we will talk about, which you'll also have access to, we'll talk about Sarah Boone, who is the alleged suitcase killer, they've been calling her.

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That said, let's get into this here with a fella. Okay. His name is Charles Donnelly Williams. Donnelly is the middle name. Chuck Williams. Chuck Williams. Old Charles Williams. Now, Charles Williams is a very common common name which also makes it difficult when

you're trying to find stuff on somebody it may have been covered all over the internet james you can't find it because his name is charles fucking williams yeah my poor cousin searching down uh charles williams is here all over the planet for this was feel bad so it's charles donnelly williams he's a wrestler so it's a wrestling episode which we all know are fun and uh known better known as the rockin rebel is what he does do you know who he is by any chance ecw yeah if you unless you watched ecw probably not no no no guitar no no no no not that you're thinking of van hammer in wcw which is a totally different guy um a terrible wrestler mind you but at least a guy who looked like a wrestler anyway yeah but charles williams he looked like a wrestler too but not not very good he's a he's okay charles williams isn't a guy that rock and rebel we'll call him from now on

either name is awful it's bad but rock and rebel is is bad and he's not even the only rock and rebel so we'll talk about that there's more of those yes that's the other problem too there's another wrestler who's going by rockin rebel so if you're looking that up you're getting this guy's shit it's a bit of a pain in the ass well this guy this guy wear like a a southern flag no no no no that was not even that rebel not not dick slater of the 80s and ww, who was the rebel Dick Slater. There you go. And they had him as a baby face in New York. I remember being like, he'd come out with a Confederate flag and everything.

I don't want to root for that guy. Why am I cheering for him? I don't want to cheer for this guy. That's why it didn't work. Well, it's because the Dukes of Hazzard was such a big deal. Yeah, but they had it on their car, and they like, you know, they were like, they were good guys. They were doing like, you know, I mean, I know they were criminals and everything, but Boss Hogg was corrupt and there was a whole separate thing going on there. Whereas this guy was just some new guy who was like, look at me.

I'm pro-Confederacy, which was just a weird, it was just an odd angle to take as a baby face in the 80s. It was just strange. It's also just a weird angle to take at all and embrace that. It's just an odd angle to take as a baby face in the 80s. It was just strange. It's also just a weird angle to take at all and embrace that. It's just bizarre. The Freebirds did it too. Yeah? When they came up in 84, they came up to, Madison's, we're getting deep into wrestling here,

but in 84, they came up to WWF for like a month, and then they got fired, but they were there for like a month as baby faces, and Michael Hayes had the giant fucking Confederateederate flag robe you know what i mean the big cape with the confederate flag what is how you're in philadelphia what's happening right now there's a show i watched a show on youtube from like august of 84 from the spectrum and their people are going i'm like what is happening they're cheering why would you bring that here what what is going on right now i don't get it so it's a strange thing but uh no his is more like like billy idol rebel you know what i

mean he's going for that which is also a confederacy thing pretty badass yeah anyway uh charles williams born january 13th 1966 born in montgomery alabama so maybe that's part of it, too, the rebel thing. There's the rebel stuff, yeah. But that wasn't really part of his gimmick. He didn't really have a gimmick. He was just a guy. That's the thing. His name was the Rockin' Rebel, but he'd just be like this kind of lame guy who wasn't very big and didn't have a lot of charisma, wasn't a great worker.

Just wearing a singlet. Yeah, just didn't have any of the things. You know what I mean? I'm part of this, too. You got to be a great promo or a great worker or have a great gimmick. It would be great to have all those together. Sure, yeah. But, I mean, it's one of two of those you can put something together, whereas this guy just didn't really have anything.

He was just kind of – he's an indie wrestler. And, you know, you can see why it never really went beyond that anyway so um yeah we'll talk about him he wrestles a couple other names too the weird part is that i don't understand normally okay here's how it works if you're a wrestler and you're going to do back in the day you'd go to do jobs which would mean you're going to if you people who aren't aware you'd go to WWF or WCW at the time to go on their TV on Saturday mornings and get beat up by a star. You're a jobber. That's what you're going there for. It's your job to make this guy look good so he can further his run. So normally when people do that, they will do that under like some name that's not associated with them.

Like Mick Foley did his as Jack Foley back in the 80s. Like he went under that name because that's not a name he wrestled under anywhere else. Because it looks bad otherwise. You don't want to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this. Yeah, they're just beaten all the time. Yeah, this guy for some reason goes by a gimmick name all over the place and we're talking

gimmicks names like the dark ninja mr x he goes by it some so not real great gimmick names but then when he jobs in wwf and wcw he goes by his actual given birth name charles williams which is the weirdest fucking backwards thing i've never heard of before it's so strange to do that dressed and looking the exact same he's wearing his gear i mean those are his tights that he has he's not gonna this isn't a guy who's gonna he's not really investing much in his ring attire this guy is not one of these guys he's not a guy who who really plans that much so and i recommend by the way because ecw is a lot like this i do recommend recommend that you watch the, is it Netflix, the series? On Wrestler?

The Wrestlers. Was it called Wrestlers, I think? It's called Wrestlers, yeah. I definitely recommend the shit out of that. You don't have to like wrestling. You will when you're done with it. You'll be interested, more interested at least in the guys. But it's the hard knocks of wrestling is the best way to describe it.

It's the hard knocks of wrestling is the best way to describe it it's the same brace yourself you're about to have your eyes wide the fuck open about how this industry works it's really wild and also you go wow these are even everything is even more like comedy than i thought it was when you watch that too it's the same exact thing it's 37 year old guys who aren't going to make it in a shitty 25-year-old car that's falling apart, talking about how they're not going to stop and they're just going to keep doing it. It's the exact same shit. It's the exact same shit. Some of the most self-saboteur sons of bitches on the planet.

And that's what comedians are. Some of the comedians that you love, that you've seen in a comedy club near you, drive similar cars to this guy. It's crazy. Disasters of human beings. So, yeah, watch that. Al Snow is the guy who runs Ohio Valley Wrestling, and he's kind of the boss of the whole thing. Holy shit. And it centers around him.

I'm wearing an Al Snow shirt right now. Yeah, Al Snow sent us some of his merch, the collar and elbow stuff. What a great guy he is, first of all. Incredible. I've never met him but he sent us something it was nice to us like that and uh before before we've said a word about him yeah well i guess because we did we mentioned him on an episode i think the marty genetti episode because he had he was tag team with marty genetti and we were very he's a great fucking worker yeah a great

wrestler smart guy i mean there's nothing bad to say about him he was like thanks for not saying anything shitty about me and said something so he's a great funny guy and he's just one of the most dry like his deadpan humor is hilarious like that guy is funny as shit he really is legit funny the scariest calm voice i've ever heard in my life oh yeah when someone's telling him something and he's just and he's not saying anything in response he's either gonna tell you why he agrees with you or he's going to level you with how dumb you are one of the two contemplating how he's about to murder you dude like a crocodile like he lays in wait like a crocodile and then just pow clamps his

jaws on you and you're like god damn that's a smart motherfucker but i've seen him in shoot interviews too and he's just a really smart funny guy and you know he may still be smart and funny like that because he was such a good wrestler he protected himself uh on falls and such that he didn't or he's just got a tough fucking brain i think that's body because he seems to have it all together still no he was he put his body on the line in the 90s i mean he started in ecw so he had to i mean it was all about putting his body on the line in the 90s i mean he started in ecw so he had to i mean it was all about putting your body on the line and that was kind of part of his gimmick was like he was he was nuts and he didn't care and he had his fucking head and he had a lot of those guys had they have they have no brain anymore whether they can even their cognitive

function it's obvious that it's off it's their cte a lot of these guys right right that's my point yeah but he's he's still running a business and doing great. No, no. He's one of those guys that his head is still good. You can tell. He's got a great mind in him.

I want to have a beer and barbecue with him. Oh, shit. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yeah. I got to get him a light for his barbecue, though.

We were watching that one and I'm like, Al, put a fucking light up. They have those clip ones you can just put up on your gutter because he's got his phone flashlight trying to do bacon and burgers. I'm like, Al, put a fucking light up. They have those clip ones you can just put up on your gutter. Because he's got his phone flashlight trying to do bacon and burgers. I'm like, Al, it looked good still, but I'm going to send him.

You know what? I'm going to send a light. His daughter listens to the show. I'm going to message her and be like, give me an address. We're sending him several barbecue lights. I'm just going to send Ohio Valley Wrestling. I'll find the address for that. And we're going to send him some of those clip-on lights. Al, your next

barbecue is going to be illuminated on us, pal. We should send him one every week for the next year. He just has 52 of them just laying around. It's like daylight out there. It's like noon. I barbecue at 2 in the morning now. It's like noon outside.

See my hot dogs no matter what time of day it is.'s hilarious so charles here back to rock and rebel he would get into wrestling as a kid you know 60s 70s wrestling and nwa down south was huge and i'm sure he was a you know fan of the briscoes and guys like that you know the southern workers good workers terry funk and all those kind of guys so he gets into that not a lot of is known about his childhood because he never got to be very famous so nobody bothered to ask what when you get famous people go what created this and they're they're curious but when you don't no one cares about you they don't care

where you came from. Doesn't matter. It's not going to be a learning experience. It's not going to be a cautionary tale. It's just who cares. That's how you know if you matter to whatever industry you're in. Has anybody asked you about your childhood? Anybody ask you what created you? What was it like being a young Charles Williams? Nope, never asked him him there's so many

comedians that i want to i want to ask him has anybody ever asked you about your childhood and then just walk away because they'll go i mean my therapist yeah but not like anyone who i wasn't paying no just my therapist yeah your therapist and your significant other that is about to leave you doesn't count and they only ask they go what is what happened to you what's wrong with you what what made you like this that's what they're asking which is a totally different different question here so his early 20s char Charles tries to get into wrestling. And he gets training by, this is the other thing, too. His trainers are legendary. And in the late 80s, they were still hot shit.

The Rock and Roll Express, Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson were his trainers. They have, I think, Robert Gibson, or Ricky Morton still has a wrestling school to this day. Yeah, a lot of those guys do. They have wrestling schools and make a little dough on the side. It makes sense, too, because a guy like ricky morton should be he should be teaching people i don't know if you know who the rock and roll express are i know who the both of them are yeah yeah together ricky morton's the blonde one uh robert gibson too great worker too they're both really great but ricky morton is a guy that when a certain type of selling you

know acting like you're getting the shit beaten out of you, to do it in a certain perfect way as a baby face is known as the Ricky Morton sell in wrestling. That's that good. He's that good. If you're selling like a motherfucker but doing it not over the top in a really good way that makes people want to help you in the audience, they go, it's a Ricky Morton sell. Because that was Ricky Morton. He'd look up to the audience and, like, put his hand up and people would try to come over the fucking gate to get it to help him it would be fucking crazy he was so good at it you know yeah and he was a little blonde guy too so it really looked like he was getting the shit kicked out of him by like the road warriors and the fucking anderson's

and people like that so um anyway rock and roll express are his trainers so he's got a a good base coming from those guys because they're great workers, especially tag team workers. Christ. So he's a big guy. That's the thing, too. He's kind of a big strapping kind of guy. I mean, six feet tall, not a tall, tall guy. It's good.

Yeah. In the 80s, you're not going to go very far in the big organizations at six feet tall unless you're a real nasty fucker. Because at that point, everybody was six foot five. It was the land of giants back in those days. So a little too much. Um, so he ends up, uh,

you know, picking out his rock and rebel as his nickname here. Um, which he had the Confederate flag sometimes at the time he did. Yeah. He would have the Confederate flag, but like I said, it wasn't like his whole, it wasn't a whole thing a whole thing yeah yeah because when you would watch him in like 93

94 in ecw i just didn't even know what his gimmick was it was just he's the rocking rebel and he's just some guy who loses all the time that was his just a just a blonde guy just a dude that likes duran duran and he's from alabama maybe that's all it is who knows that's possible just rocking out guys so looks like the first matches that i've seen that were like televised matches that were anything i don't know if he was in some tiny place before this but he's on wwf superstars of wrestling in which is the main you know syndicated show that was on when you'd wake up on saturday morning that was the show that was on april 4th 89 he loses to the honky tonk man in under two minutes there oh no so he got shake shake rattle and

rolled there probably more than likely i would assume that's perfect for the rock and rebel that's perfect he'd know but he he uh works under chuck williams as his name. So again, he uses his real name, which makes no sense to me. I don't know. In 1989, in June of 89, he's on Wrestling Challenge, which is WWF, and he and George Scaland, who I believe is Arnold Scaland's

son. Arnold Scaland was a famous manager for years and years. Bob Backlund's manager when he was champion. He's the guy that threw in the towel when he lost to the Sheik and all that kind of shit. He had a son named George who apparently wasn't very good because he's teaming with Chuck Williams to get the shit beaten out of him by the barbarian and the warlord,

the powers of pain, in two minutes. Was this in the time when Vince was taking any name that you had there as ownership and if you did anything, was that why he did this rather than bringing the Rock and Rebel because then he can't work under that? It didn't matter for jobbers. He wasn't going to fucking trademark a jobber's name.

It cost more to trademark than he would pay this guy for 10 fucking matches. These guys came in for 50 bucks a shot to job. I mean, that was their job. They'd come in So you could have done it either way and it wouldn't have mattered. Work like three matches on a television taping get the shit beaten out of them three to just meet you know to get beat up that's all they were to make the other guys look good though i mean that's you know that's that's a that's a talent absolutely to make somebody look good and look strong then he loses to brutus beefcake oh as well uh in june of the i

think it's the same taping probably uh loses toutus Beefcake in a minute and a half there in Rochester, that is. That's a quick warm-up fight, huh? Oh, yeah, yeah. Those were the quick matches. The squash matches were fast. Yeah. They were real fast. They are fun to watch when they're quick like that.

Oh, yeah. I don't care much for the long throws. I get that it's athleticism it's amazing to watch but the long throws and constant back and forth and at some point you just want somebody to fucking win yeah if there's two really good guys though that can build it that's the thing it's like a comedy set man it's the same thing like someone who shouldn't be doing an hour you don't want to watch them do an hour. But someone who's a fucking master at an hour, you don't even realize it's an hour because they've built this up so much where you're involved in it. And that's what good wrestlers can do.

I mean, go watch like Flair Steamboat from the late 80s or guys like that. Like they had hour matches that were – fuck, man. They built the story up that was really good. So it depends. But the job matches are fun too because you get to see the really good guy just toss this guy around, the finishing move's going to get done. You're going to get to see that, the complete destruction of this person. That's fun to watch. Who doesn't want to see that?

And if you don't like it, guess what? It's almost over. That's good news. It'll be over in a minute and 34 seconds like the Brutus Beefcake match. It's awesome. In a minute and 34 seconds, like the Brutus Beefcake match. It's awesome. In July of 89, he and Paul Van Dale tagged up to lose to the fabulous Rougeau brothers, Jacques and Raymond, here in three minutes and 12 seconds.

A little longer for a tag match, you know, because you've got to let both guys do their shit. You've got to do it both times. Yeah. The Rougeaus had to do their shit then he this is when he ends up going in 1990 this is january of 1990 um to twa which is a uh it's the tri-state wrestling alliance it's the predecessor to ecw okay a guy named joel goodhart i guess ran this ec this version of it and then this is what todd gordon i believe ended up getting it from him and And then Paul Heyman took credit for everything. So ECW is fucking rad. ECW is fucking great.

By the way, if you want to. Oh, it's wild stuff. But it was innovative at the time. It just had that. When you watch a show from like 94, 95, like that time period in the ECW arena, it's fucking gritty in there man that crowd it's a it's a rough crowd too like it's a rough crowd it's it's they're they the guy they're all smart too they all like they know what's going on the the fans all know what's up they're hard to fool you got to do a certain way like they were it was a totally different environment they had all like

new music as their right didn't care about copyrights. The TV show had White Zombie as their fucking intro thing. Is that right? Yeah. You can't do that. Yeah. That's... They didn't care.

Dragula or something? They just did it. Fuck, it was crazy. So there you go. This is when he comes in and he beats Joey Maggs in his match here at at the mcgonigal hall in philly oh i don't know what the mcgonigal hall is at all i don't think that's the the bingo hall it was the ecw arena later it might be though who knows what the hell name changes these things go through uh then he beats cn red and this is a 13 minute match so you got to watch them for 13 minutes here. So, yeah, tri-state wrestling.

He is the—Rebel became the first tri-state champion at the time. Is that right? So he gets a belt for whatever that's worth for the tri-state wrestling. Because these were—when you listen to the book—by the way, I highly recommend the book if you're interested in ECW at all or just a funny fucking story. Todd Gordon's new book sean oliver wrote with him the kayfabe commentaries guy who's excellent uh does excellent work uh they he wrote a book called todd is god which is they used to chant that so it's it's he tells the whole story of how ecw started and you know all this type of shit and how this version of it twa was basically

the guy who was running, I guess was – I think it was Joel Goodhart, but I guess maybe not. I can't remember now, but I think that's who it was, this guy. He basically would hire guys based on – I'd like to see this card. So I'll hire all these guys, and this guy wants $400, and this guy wants $500, and I've got to fly this guy in from Florida, and I've got to take him. But he wouldn't have a plan. He'd sell 60 tickets to it.

Great. So he'd lose money all the time. Yeah. So he was losing money, and he brought Todd Gordon in to try to help. And Todd Gordon ended up just kind of buying the company from him because this guy didn't know what the fuck he was doing. And then Todd Gordon took it over, and that's how ecw came uh came on there so he also he teamed with a guy named jimmy genetti not marty jimmy not not anywhere near marty's marty's little brother jimmy genetti is it no it's not at all to form a tag team called the confederacy so. There you go. That makes sense.

So they were always feuding for the tag titles and all that kind of thing. TWA, though, stopped making shows in like 1991. I'm looking at all these shows. Oh, the original Sports Bar. I think that's where ECW, when Todd Gordon took over, the first shows they were doing were at Mike Schmidt's Sports Bar in Philly. Oh, really? Yeah. These Mike Schmidt. Mike Schmidt's Sports Bar in Philly. Oh, really? Yeah. These Mike Schmidt.

Mike Schmidt's Sports Bar, it's called. Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. They do shows there hoping to get 100 people to sell 100 tickets. And they're saying they were saying you had to be careful doing a backdrop that you didn't hit your feet on the ceiling because it was a fucking bar. It's not, you know, when you put the ring in, that's a few feet in the air and then you're. Wow.

So a little dangerous there to do that. But that's the kind of shit they were indie wrestling was doing. You had to do it there. It's interesting that that grew into something big. It's kind of cool here. He also here, 1990, the NWA Power Hour filming here in Greenwood, Mississippi. So this is like WCW here. In a handicap match, Rockin' Rebel and Terry Bronson get beat by Mean Mark, who will be the Undertaker later on that year.

Mean Mark? Mean Mark, yeah. Mean Mark. That's what he went by in WCW. Is his real name Mark? Mark Calloway, yeah. So he goes by mean mark back then he was just a great gimmick wcw you got a six foot ten redheaded guy that can walk a top

rope and you go mean mark great that's i got it wow top tier behind the scenes work guys that's excellent guy is a star for 30 years after that and they're like i don't know we can't figure out what to do with mean mark i just don't know you got any ideas nothing god damn it god damn it um some of these these matches i'm looking at the twa stuff larry winters rock and rebel and tony stetson larry winters is a trainer also tony stetson's another guy who stuck around for a long time in ecw beat dc drake johnny hot body and mondo clean god these are all these early 90s like indie names that's in a cowboy he fucking better be if not they blew it they goddamn blew it again he was just tough guy. You can't name a guy Stetson because the hat has become a thing.

I think that was just his real name. Yeah, probably is. And I want to say that for a while he was trying to call himself Tough Tony Stetson. He had no gift. He was just a guy that wore like cut-off jeans and just came to the ring. Like, you know, down to his knees and he'd just be like, I'm tough. Look at me. He was a stocky little guy, but I mean.

Yeah, but stupid. Had no personality. There is a battle royal on July 21st, 1990 for the vacant heavyweight championship of TWA at the Max Myers Playground in Philly. Actual playground. Did they put a ring like next to the spinny thing? Next to the fucking merry-go-round. No, what's the spinny thing you get on and is very dangerous?

No, not with horses and shit. No, no, they still call that a merry-go-round. They still call it a merry-go-round? Didn't they call that a merry-go-round? I always called it a merry-go-round as a kid. I don't know, I was asking you. I have no idea. The whirlybird thing?

They have, like, the little bars that... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a merry-go-round. And if you fall off and try to get on and then it hits you in the head and knocks you unconscious. Yeah. Which I've seen numerous kids do that. Or they spin you around until you grab the bars and your legs swing out right, and then you drop another kid.

And then another kid falls off. Kick him right in the fucking face. Yeah. So in this fucking playground main event, Rockin' Rebel is the winner, so he wins the heavyweight title. Yeah. Over the fucking monkey bars. He does that. Then in another match, he loses to DC Drake, loses the title at Penn Hall in Philly.

They do Penn Hall for a while. He does another show here at the Monsignor Bonner High School in Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania. What is the tri-state area? Is that Pennsylvania, Jersey, and New York? It's actually Connecticut, New York, New Jersey is the tri-state area? Is that Pennsylvania, Jersey, and New York? It's actually Connecticut, New York, New Jersey is the tri-state area. So I don't know where they're sticking. While they wrestle in Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania.

But Philly's right by Jersey, though. You can see New York. Same thing. It's all right there. It's all the same thing. It's 10 minutes from Jersey. What do you want? Yeah.

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I don't know what this is, but in 1990 here, he participates in a reverse cage battle royal. What the fuck is a reverse cage? Oh, that's where there's no cage. A reverse cage where you can just walk right out. It's fine.

Reverse cage. I don't know what the fuck's going on with that that's when it's open but involved in this match uh rock and rebel beat bounty hunter cheetah kid crybaby waldo ghetto blaster what is that larry winters ron shaw and uh jesus ron shaw was still around he was doing ron shaw was a preliminary guy for wwf in the early 80s where he was this big big fucking guy but he just was like he looked his head looked like somebody's dad he just looked like an old he looked like he was coming home from the office with thinning blonde hair and shit but he had this body of like i'm a big tough guy but

his head didn't fit it so it just didn't work very well. Top Gun is somebody's name. And Triton. Stupid. Yeah, we'll get done with these involved in this wrestling stuff. But it's just a goddamn blast. It's a lot of fun. It's really fun to talk about names and things of that nature.

I get a kick out of that. And, you know, the names not matching the gimmick is even better. Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. That's very fun here. Apparently, they were the tag team champions, Rockin' Rebel and Jimmy Giannetti, until they lost to Johnny Hotbody and Larry Winters. Johnny Hotbody. At TWA Spring Spectacular 2.

Oh, the second one. 2. Got to have that. Spectacular 2. Oh, the second one. 2. Got to have that. He loses to Sandman, who, you know, Sandman with the stick there.

Fantastic. Known as Mr. Sandman at the time. Really? Yeah. Up until about late 93, he came out with a surfboard wearing a wetsuit. Sandman. Yeah. Fucking Sandman.

Came out in a surfboard. If you don't know who Sandman is, this won't make sense to you. But later on, Sandman, when he plays basically himself later on, he comes out in fucking Zuba pants or like jeans later in a sleeveless T-shirt smoking and drinking. He's the first guy who was drinking beers on the way to the ring. He's the reason stone cold slaps him together he did that before stone cold day in ecw there's a there's a goddamn sandman was doing it for a while but there's a show where they are in the ring or on the on the aisle i can't remember but it's stone cold and fucking he wasn't stone cold yet but him and fucking sandman are pounding beers in the alley because he's doing Sandman's thing with them.

And then he's doing it and made a trillion dollars off it. But, I mean, that's fine. People borrow gifts all the time. Yeah, but still. It's still annoying because people think that now people see it and they go, oh, that's that Stone Cold thing. Yeah. No. Sandman doesn't get the credit he deserves for doing that.

Or actually. And he went by Mr. Sandman. Mr. Sandman. Like the 50s song. Mr. Sandman. Yeah, I don't like that. He'd come out to that song really yes he'd come out to that song and then later on you come out to like surfing usa with fucking he's really loved the he's a drunk from philly that's the thing like that's who he is i just wanted to be malibu ken. Yeah, fucking hack. Everybody calls him hack that's ever talked to him before.

In the mid-2000s, I was trying to put this movie together, and he was good for a part, so I had cast him in the movie. I've talked to him on the phone for an hour at a time a couple different times, hack. And he's a smart fucking guy, first of all. Really? Crazy, but a smart dude and an interesting interesting guy to talk to but he's a fucking he's just a fucking regular guy from philly he's just like he's just like a construction worker from philly and why are you putting him in a wetsuit it makes no sense you feel like in philly making him just hack would have been better anyway so making him do a stupid 50s gimmick

it's very fucking weird yeah it's very weird here um last blood battle royal i know what a first blood is i don't know what yeah the last to bleed loses i guess i guess last last blood is the winner right i guess so the whoever bleeds last is the winner i don't know he loses that anyway sabu's in that 91 wow that's a real early sighting of Sabu for ECW. This is at the original sports bar in Philly. Also the Overbrook High School in Pine Hill, New Jersey they're in. He must have broke up with Jimmy Gianetti at one point because he's fighting

him here. So that's interesting. Then he goes on to Puerto Rico to I believe it's WWC. Let me look. I have a hold on a second. Let me give you a rundown because I have a list of all of the promotions he was in more or less. Oh, that's a lot. Like a key.

Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? Oh, boy. Like a promotion key basically so I know what they are. But it's hard to find. Hold on. I got to find it. I'll run down the list for you.

Keep digging. And you'll fucking understand what I'm talking about here. We will hang on every bated breath word. you have twa tri-state wrestling alliance capital which is wwa puerto rico that's where he goes there awf all-star wrestling federation bbw which is not what you think it is he wrestles for those big asses. He wrestles heavy set black women usually. That's what he's doing. That's bad to the bone wrestling. Oh, boy, did they fuck that up. They even put bone in there.

M-E-W-F, Mid-Eastern Wrestling Federation, and not like Syria or something. They mean like, you know, Ohio, I think. something like they mean like you know ohio i think um wwwa worldwide wrestling alliance as if the wwa wasn't enough for you um iwf infinity wrestling federation bjw big japan wrestling not not what you think either not what the winner gets ewa empire wrestling alliance twz the wrestling WA, Empire Wrestling Alliance. TWZ, The Wrestling Zone. J-A-P-W. So that sounds like it should. It feels like what your racist uncle calls it. Yeah, or if your grandfather was in World War II when you were a kid,

that's just what they called. That's the Jersey All-Pro Wrestling. It's not even close. Nope, not even close. God, I love this. I love wrestling. It's a fucking, it's just great. It's so much fun. L.A.W., which is Liberty All-Star Wrestling, Law Wrestling, PWF, Premier Wrestling Federation.

We're nowhere near done, by the way. Oh, my God. PXW, Pro Excitement Wrestling. Excitement. wrestling federation we're nowhere near done by the way oh my god pxw pro excitement wrestling excitement yeah you ever thought they meant extreme right extreme no no no extreme they fuck you every time they fuck you every time even ecw used e and not x right you know um wcicw that rolls off too many too many letters That's too many. Too many letters. Is that too many numbers on that license plate? That's one of those.

World-class independent championship wrestling. Good lord. Knock a couple of those words off. Yeah. And don't be world-class, because that was Texas, you fucking assholes. Don't do that. You're not Fritz Von Erich, because I don't want to hear world-class. You know what they're doing. World-independent wrestling would have been fine.

W-I-C. I'll take that. CZW, which is combat zone wrestling. Those fucking guys were insane. Were they? After ECW folded in 2000 or 2001, whenever it was there, a bunch of companies popped up that were like, okay, we're going to take what ECW did and try to get that audience

by only doing the crazy shit. They don't realize that ECW. Only the blood and light bulbs and shit. That's exactly what it is. The fucking light tubes and all that horse shit, which is. Nail matches and shit. Yeah, that doesn't. And I've heard a lot of wrestlers say this, too.

That doesn't take any talent to do that. No. It's just smashing shit on somebody. You have to be tough to get hit with stuff, but it doesn't take. Anybody could walk into a ring and fucking hit somebody with a light tube and have the crowd go, oh, shit. Like, that doesn't take any talent. That's a lot of the good workers. You'll hear them say that.

Like, that's, you know, there's ways, there's reasons and ways to do matches like that. There's rays. There's, you know, this feud and this happened. There's ways to build the stuff, but you don't need to do things that that. There's Raze, there's this feud, and this happened. There's ways to build to stuff, but you don't need to do things that are actually that dangerous to actually hurt each other. By the Instagram page of that kid that takes his shirt off and does backflips and shit onto trays of cactus. It's stupid.

It's just a lunatic that's doing lunatic shit. That's it. The art of wrestling is supposed to be to look like you're getting hurt and look like you're hurting someone without actually doing it. That's the art of the whole thing. If you're not doing that, it's whatever. CZW Combat Zone Wrestling was one of those. A lot of light tubes, I believe, and shit like that.

Lots of blood. Lots of blood. That's where you'll get a lot of Nick Gage matches and stuff, which we'll definitely do. Fuck, man. We've been asked a lot to do an episode on him, and don't worry. I was just letting him. He's marinating at the moment. That's a lot of instability.

Yeah, we'll put him on El Snow's dark grill one of these days. Don't worry about it. WXW, World Extreme Wrestling. BWO, which was a gimmick in ECW, which was the Blue World Order making fun of the New World Order. But this is Blackballed Wrestling Organization. W.O.W., WOW, which is Warriors of Wrestling, but there's also a WOW that's female wrestling now, based in California, I believe. Remember on the wrestlers that the two ladies went to fight for WOW, so that's something.

D.C. So that's something. DCW. Any guesses? District of Columbia wrestling. Dynamite Championship Wrestling. Same thing. FNW. Yeah. I'm not doing it.

That's why I set that one up. Far North Wrestling. Yeah. VPW. Valor Pro Wrestling. I don't know what's up with that. I think they're going for the... Just veterans?

They're like, I like Ring of Honor, so I'm going to do Valor. Because Ring of Honor is another promotion from back in the day. KPW, which is Keystone Pro Wrestling. I assume that's Pennsylvania-based. PWE, Pro Wrestling Empire. And then ACW, Atomic Championship Wrestling. wrestling i assume that's pennsylvania based uh pwe pro wrestling empire and then acw atomic championship wrestling atomic atomic like the wedgie atomic championship wrestling seems a little it's a little wordy atomic calm down so he goes to puerto rico here and um he's in puerto rico for pretty much looks like all of 1992 working

all the time i mean there's these tons of matches here um trying to see guys that people would know who they are um doug masters he was something later on um and there's some of the guys but some somebody goes by heartbreaker adonis which is a funny name considering i just think of adrian adonis if i think here of Adonis and a wrestler. So, and he wasn't a heartbreaker. He was a fucking 350 pound tub of shit. Great.

Every time I hear the name, I, I, I'm reminded that Paul Mooney has a grandson that they named Adonis who does not fit the bill. It's not, no. Or Adonis Stevenson to the boxer.

We did too. We can think oh yeah yeah yeah so he was a big yoked out guy that you could imagine would be called that yeah yeah well he's a boxer he's in great shape he's yeah paul mooney's kid's a little doughy not what you picture when you think uh a super carved out adonis not quite there huh, huh? No. So by 92, TWA is now ECW, but it's not Extreme Championship Wrestling. It is Eastern Championship Wrestling at this point, still under the NWA banner now because they were trying to reconstitute the NWA for some reason, even though it's been dead for a while there.

But this is when Todd Gordon takes over is when he changed to ecw this is when it becomes good and you can start watching it from now uh here he fights sandman for the heavyweight title still going by mr sandman by the way uh he beats the metal maniac at the chestnut cabaret in philly yeah god damn it the fighting at a fucking titty bar at a cabaret i don't know if it's a titty bar or a they normally have like shows or something yeah i don't know cabaret it sounds like it that's how disappointed if you're there to see tits though you don't want to see wrestling not his tits yeah like if you go to see wrestling and see tits that's fine that's a two for one but if you go to see tits you tits, that's fine. That's a two for one. But if you go to see tits, you're not interested in wrestling.

You're there for tits. God damn it. No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. It's an even swap if you go for the opposite. That doesn't work at all. So, yeah, he's fighting. He does some stuff in Japan in 93 as well.

Comes back. Does an IWCCW show. Does a couple of those. That's a lot, does an IWCCW show. Does a couple of those. That's a lot, too. IWCCW. And, oh, Johnny Rotten he fights. Okay. Johnny would be probably, I think, I wonder if that's, I think, yeah, that's Axel

Rotten's original gimmick. He went by Johnny Rotten, and they were like, don't go by that. You can't do that. He was fantastic. So then he went by Axel Rotten, and he had his brother Ian Rotten, not his real brother, but a guy, and then by axel rotten and he had his brother ian rotten not his real brother but a guy and then they had broke up and they had fights through 95 where they beat each other with uh barbed wire baseball bats for real got them stuck in each other's arms and shit really i couldn't get it out yeah dear god beating they had the crate they would they had uh taped

fist matches where they had taped fists that were they dipped their fists in glue with the tape on it and then dip them in broken glass and they were fucking they they were cut the fuck out of each other yeah yeah axel rotten still had 20 years later his arm was all gnarled up from all the barbed wire shots he took in the fucking arm like an idiot so crazy stuff what a stupid thing to do yeah for like you know 75 dollars you know what i mean like the fuck are you doing i mean i guess we still remember it but yeah other than that barbed wire that shit's not sterile you don't know you could fucking fuck no none of that shit they were using was sterile you're a wrestler you don't even have insurance no that's the other

thing oh here's a funny story from that book, by the way, the Todd Gordon book. Oh, Jesus. A funny how to scam and get your shit fixed thing. Terry Funk comes into ECW and really boosts it up as far as its prestige because Terry Funk is there. And, you know, he's a fucking god in wrestling. So Terry Funk's sitting in the locker room, and I guess one of the younger guys is complaining that his neck's fucked up. Yeah. And his neck's fucked up. He. And his neck's fucked up.

He's got like a compression thing. It's not good. And Terry Funk's telling him that's nothing to fuck around with there. It's compression things. You're getting dropped on your head all the time and blah, blah, blah. And he goes, I don't have insurance, so I can't afford to fix it, so I don't know what to do. And Terry says, just do the rental car gimmick.

Do the rental car gimmick. And the guy goes, I don't need a ride. I don't need a ride i don't know i don't need a car i don't know what you're talking about and he goes you rent a car because you know terry's got every trick in the book he's been in the business forever his father's was in the business as a promoter all his brothers yeah he goes go rent a car he goes get all the insurance you can might might be 50 might cost you in the 90s he goes then take that some bitch and run it into a stop sign you get out of the car grab your neck and wait for the ambulance buddy and that was that's it that insurance will now fix your neck you betcha and the guy was like great fucking idea

and did it so that's that's a the car insurance gimmick go get to go yeah do the rental car gimmick yeah gosh i love that that's so fucking fun i love that everything in their life is the gimmick every fucking scam they pull the rental car gimmick just like comics they use their jargon in everyday life yeah everything they somebody gets out of a situation, they go, I kicked out of that. You know what I mean? They always have the same thing with a comic. Everything.

If someone adds something, you'll say that's a tag on something. It's not a fucking joke. It's not a tag. It's the same thing. You just can't help but use this weird lingo that we've built up.

Somebody puts tomato on my cheeseburger. That's a nice tag. That's a nice tag. That's pretty good. It's true. In the business, we do all that shit all the time so um anyway he's fighting all these guys in ecw and he's one of the mainstays of ecw yeah too i mean because he's an original guy from twa so if you watch those 93 94 ecw shows he's on

every fucking show wow he's always in there somewhere you know getting beat by he he's beating guys like uh ernesto benefica but then he's losing to the sandman and he's losing to people like that so that's what he's doing now um in this let's see oh he loses to the sandman so he's he's doing well though he's he's a known guy let's say grace now for old oh for Chuck um a funny thing from that book that Todd Gordon talks about and many other wrestlers have talked about this because they were all involved in it but apparently a rebel here had gone to Todd Gordon and said how come I'm like I'm one of the you know Sandman gets to be the champ all the time and I'm one of the original guys and I Sandman gets to be the champ all the time, and I'm one of the original guys, and I don't ever get belts.

I don't get anything. You know what I mean? I'm losing all the time. I'm getting shit. So there was a battle royal that night that he was in. So Todd tells him, yeah, you know what? Yeah, you're going over in the battle royal tonight, because it was, I guess, the winner got a title shot later in the evening,

and, you know, he would lose that, but he'd be in the mix. So this will pump him up. So he said yeah you're going over you're going over now apparently he immediately told everybody about it and told his girlfriend about it who then was like oh yeah he's going over in the battle royal put over tonight yeah but you're not supposed to do any of that shit so he did all that so then he todd gordon goes to all the other guys doesn't tell rebel that now you're not going over he just tells everybody else beat the shit out of him he's the first to go out yeah because they tell you the booker will tell you the the order of going out it's gonna be you then you then you then you and you got to watch for when guys leave because then it's your turn they said he's going out first everybody fucking dump him yeah so he they get in the ring and they

all try they're trying to actually toss him over and he's hanging on the ropes going no i'm going over they told me i'm going no i'm winning i'm winning stop stop and they're like no you're not motherfucker and he's like no you don't understand like for dear life they told me i can oh god emilio he's just he's having problems in there and i thought that was a fucking hilarious trick to play on a on a guy there i want to watch that i'm sure they don't have like the audio of it but i want to hear him screaming you just want to watch him hold on for dear life you can see it's not natural of what they're doing. It's not a wrestling thing. It's a guy actually trying not to go over the top rope while people seriously try to throw him over. That's funny as shit.

Kicking him in the ribs while he holds the fucking rope. It's fucking hilarious. So look at this. He works with a lot of bigger guys here that I see coming up here. Here's a match with Snooka in 94. Oh, really? Snooka was one of the ECW guys who was Snooka Morocco. They were originally feuding for the title there.

So we got Salvatore Balomo, who's an old WWF guy. Tommy Cairo. Tommy Dreamer, who's around still, for Christ's sake. I think he still works at WWE to this day. Not as a worker, but I think behind the scenes. Versus Jimmy Snuka, Rockin' Rebel, and the Pitbull. Pitbull's another interesting guy here.

Pitbull 1 and Pitbull 2 you'll have later on. The Pitbull's the tag team. One of them had... Junkyard Dog, the fucking British Bulldog. They were a good tag team. They were just short. Otherwise, they were really good together. They were a good tag team. They were just short. Otherwise, they were really good together.

Yeah, they had a pretty good team. Then, let's see. Chad Austin, Tommy Gunn. All right. So, yeah, he's just kind of being the – he's getting beat by Tommy Dreamer in 94, though, which is before Tommy Dreamer was really anybody. Loses to Tommy Cairo. Mikey Whipwreck beats him. Yeah, that's good.

Taz, who was the Tasmanian Tasmanian back then, beats him in a minute and 32 seconds. That's a fucking squash match, man. That's it's not. He loses in three minutes and 24 seconds to Mikey Whipwreck. That's not great. So, yeah, he's kind of not doing well anymore because they're getting in better guys as ecw gets better they start to get in better wrestlers and then guys who aren't that good go to the bottom tier it's just the way it is and 94 to 96 there were some

really like there's legendary dudes that came in around then yeah yeah stuck around for quite some time and the rock came in well a little bit earlier 90s no 95 96 95 right when he started and that's when he started going to wrestling school or whatever so yeah yeah and he's like major dudes are coming in now and yeah and people like the undertaker are fucking legendary at this moment like big things are happening yeah he better up it up up the game or else he's going to be tossed aside and this is another time this is a time when 93 and early 94 till monday nitro took off both the major federations were going were in a huge downswing yeah so yeah

so they were there was more guys available because as they as those as like vince mcmahon lost money he cuts guys off his roster some off yeah and then they're available and then they as those as like vince mcmahon lost money he cuts guys off his roster some off yep and then they're available and then they end up going ecw and you got a guy with a big name and also you'll have guys that are in between like oh they're they're you know gonna go work for wcw in two months and they were in there and they go like cactus jack like steve austin brian pillman did that a bunch of guys who were major stars came in for like two months to ECW. Wild. Which was cool.

So you get all this kind of cool stuff. You never know who's going to pop up. You love that because then it's like free agency where it's good for the player to get experience elsewhere too. And the exposure is crazy. Yeah, absolutely. It's good for him um on one of the cards here he is playing doink actually the clown the clown which yeah doink first started out as matt born who we should also do an episode on started out as matt born uh wwf

fired him for failing drug tests and so they just put the gimmick on somebody else because it's a clown suit with makeup yeah but matt born was really good at being a bad clown and then nobody else was then matt bourne went to ecw wearing like a weird version of the doink costume even though he wasn't allowed to and wwf was trying to sue him for it and everything and then other people just started wearing the doink costume and apparently this guy included. So he loses to Coco Beware at an AWF event. Remember him with the bird? Oh, yeah.

Loses to Coco Beware. Losing these all sorts of different names that aren't him. Kato, he goes by under this one, which is probably under a mask, I would assume. So I don't know. It's just not going wonderful here. Things aren't going great in his personal life either because sometime in the mid-'90s here, and we don't know the exact date because, again... Should have been more famous, you son of a bitch.

If you were a little more famous, we'd have more details for you here on this. But sometime in the mid-'90s here, right around this time, he is arrested for... He's got a wife, Stephanie, and he'll still have a wife stephanie later on she's going to stick around for a long time he held her hostage in a closet oh boy with a gun to her head oh yeah threatening to kill her and kill himself also oh the old murder suicide trope yeah so the cops are called it's a bad gimmick that closet murder suicide show you're doing that murder suicide gimmick again bro

let me put a tag on that i'll call the cops so okay um yeah that's that's how that goes that's not great so the cops come in and apparently there's a bit of a standoff, and he eventually comes out, and we'll serve time in prison for this because you can't hold people hostage in a closet. Right. At gunpoint. Wrongful imprisonment? Kidnapping? There's a lot of things. There's a whole bunch of them.

Yeah. A host of charges. A host of charges, really. People would say that Stephanie would try to get out of their marriage all the time. He would apparently threaten to kill himself if she left. He was that guy. Oh, he's one of those guys. And he's a guy that really has some serious brain damage later on, as we'll talk about.

Like, he'll leave the house to go to the store and call his wife and say, I don't know where I'm going. Where am I supposed to be going? He'll forget where he was going. Like, he's that fucking st to go to the store and call his wife and say, I don't know where I'm going. Where am I supposed to be going? He'll forget where he was going. Like, he's that fucking Stunad by the end there. Jesus. By, you know, the modern times. Yeah. So, we don't know if this was developing or what, but he was taking a lot of shots in the head with a chair.

That's the other thing. Yeah. ECW was famous for these stiff chair shots where if you put your hands up, you were considered a pussy. Right. Nope. You had to fucking put your head out and take it, which is the dumbest fucking thing ever. And we all cheered for it back in the day. But it's like, Christ, I look at it now and I see a guy get hit in the head like that.

I'm like, holy shit. Yeah. And it's not just like in the face. It's like over the top. Yeah. yeah damn it you watch like uh uh tanaka and mike awesome have a match in the late 90s and these guys would break fucking chairs over each other's heads steal fucking chairs they beat not just once because they gimmicked it with the fucking screws we're talking beat him with the chair until it broke

and they would fucking do that every night it's crazy so mike awesome killed himself by the way eventually did he really his fucking brain was fucked up i wonder if that contributed you think right and uh tanaka is japanese so i think he was fine for some reason i don't know how japanese people are tough like that i don't know what it is but they go they like you look at the dojos over, they torture each other and they're fine. Yeah. They kick each other in the balls.

It's wild. Exchange shots to the nuts and everything's fine. Don't. What is going on? Don't exchange shots to the head with a Japanese person. You're going to lose. You're going to end up killing yourself. And they're going to go to the grocery store and know exactly where to go and what to get.

They're going to be running like a nice model boat shop later on or something. Something real of their interest. Inside jars. Yeah. So they end up keeping together over time even though it starts in the mid-90s, this. This instability. Over the next 20 years they're gonna have this instability all these problems um and everything like that so it's it's

pretty fucking interesting um shane douglas by the way here is the uh i have a quote from shane douglas you know that is no he wrestled all over the fucking, you know, he's a legendary guy at this point. He's been around forever. Did he have a gimmick or was he just wrestling under Shane Douglas? When he was in WWF at the time, he was Dean Douglas and played a teacher. Yikes. Yeah, it wasn't good. And he also was in the Dynamic Dudes in WCW with him and Johnny Ace.

That feels creepy. It didn't work very well at all. I can't imagine. In Philly, there's a famous time where they came out, and they're supposed to be baby faces, and yeah, dynamic dudes, and they come out, and there's a big sign that says,

Shane sucks Johnny's dick. Someone had a big fucking sign that said that. There it is. It just ruined the whole thing. Bingo. They were just depressed afterwards. Like, dude, we're supposed to be good guys and there's kids saying i see we suck each other's dicks this doesn't work 12 year old just

told me i blow you i mean that's in philly though that's to be expected yeah we love philly that's why we love philly god damn it they're ruthless jesus christ Jesus Christ. Oh, man. So he says this is what Rock and Rebel was like backstage. Quote, he and I always got along, although Chuck and anyone that knows him knows what I'm talking about. He wasn't the kind of guy who would let his hair down with you. If you were talking about subject A, he would say a few things about subject A and was on his way. And he was like an overly intense guy so he wouldn't stick around

and get in a deep conversation with you polite enough but then leave he was like an overly intense guy he'd scream about a parking spot type of thing like come in like all these motherfuckers he's also on shit loads of steroids to try to even compete

in this he needs to be 245 and the only way he's achieving that is with a shit load of steroids is the other thing. To try to even compete in this, he needs to be 245. And the only way he's achieving that is with a shitload of steroids. And I can't imagine he's doing them in a correct way. So he's getting hit in the head. He's jacking himself up with steroids. None of this is good. Pills, powders, and shots.

It's got to be intense. It's a lot. It's a real lot. So the wait is over. So far, real lot. So. The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that. Bing!

The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face. I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave her alone.

Okay, so, um... This is not a so. This is a period. Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor. You married his cousin. His brother.

That's not him. Yes, ma'am. I would make a beeline for the door. The Emmy Award-winning series returns how did i know that i have crystal ball in my head it's an all-new season it's streaming you can say anything judy justice only on freebie they kind of uh he's not really as ecw goes he's not really in their plans you know what i mean he's just going to be a a jobber if you're going to be a jobber there you might as well be a jobber for one of the big companies yeah so he would never really get any tv time um he'll go with wcw and wwf a little bit but he'll be like a house show jobber.

Like he's not really getting on TV or anything like that. He does go to Japan and Korea and Puerto Rico again in the 90s here. And I don't know if that was because of his legal troubles or what, but either way, he ends up in BJW in Japan for a while

and comes back to the States. I see him on WCW Saturday night in 95. Getting beat by Paul Arndorf, Mr. Wonderful there. Really? So chances are he took a pile driver on that one. That's a light showing for Paul, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, 95. He was already working in the office for like five years,

but he was still wrestling too because he was a name. That was after he beat up Vader and all that shit. Remember we talked about that? Yeah. Fucking Orndorff's crazy. So where is he here? Oh, NWA, New Jersey. Jesus Christ.

He's not Johnny Gunn. It's just not a he's beating him. I'm going under Chuck Williams a little bit in Japan, I think, because that makes him sound more American. So that's good. Yeah. And they love to hate that. Yeah yeah they don't know what the fuck a rebel is over there no that flag means nothing to them they don't care at all i doubt they have no idea what you're talking about so he goes through all these different nwa new jersey this is when he wrestles for bbw okay so 96 is i guess bbw that wasn't an internet porn category at that point so later on now it's just now it's just women that are getting giant asses it's not even it's not even a thing it's yeah i haven't kept up on the these enormous asses surgically implanted it's a

bbw like silly asses like yeah yeah novelty ass. Yes. It's I bought these stretch pants that look terrible on me, so I'm going to make them look better on me. Okay. Just with novelty. Novelty ass. Novelty surgery ass. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Nothing natural. Gotcha. All right. No. Nothing. Nothing. Did not do squats for this. I used to have a skinny ass and I'll do some squats.

Not one squat uh lots of dollars so i'm reading this 96 bayou productions jesus christ in woodbridge virginia i don't wouldn't want to that doesn't sound good at all listen to this axel rotten chris stevenson and the headbangers who were in wwf right after that, beat Q-Ball Carmichael. I'd love to know who the fuck that is, if that's somebody we know. I'm guessing a bald man. Glenn Osborne, who turned out to be, what's his name, the vampire guy. Glenn Campbell.

Yes, Glenn Campbell. Who's the vampire guy in WWF from the late 90s? Gangrel, Gangrel. That's it. I would have never guessed that one. He was married to Luna Vachon, I think. He's that guy, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.

Dennis. Oh, this is nice. M-E-W-F. Devin Storm and Mark Schrader defeat Rockin' Rebel and Thomas Rodman, Dennis's brother. So he's doing great here. Everything's. Yeah. Is this guy's name Black Caesar?

That's great. Is it? But it's C-E-Z-Z-A z a r i think he's trying to say caesar yeah he's trying to be black caesar black caesar beats him for the iwf national title awesome so there's that yeah you know you know you get beat by black caesar you can go well i mean yeah he's black caesar what do you want from me? That's an interesting title. There's another match, JAPW, which is Jersey All-Pro, as we know. He faces a tag team called the Da Hit Squad with Mafia and Monsta Mac are the participants there.

His team is, quote, the Hate Squad. No! No! Okay. the participants there okay his team is quote the hate squad no okay um he then he him and oh my god the hate squad his partner is a guy named skinhead ivan oh don't so the rockin rebel with his confederate flag and the skinhead guy are the hate squad, I guess, so that way they fight black tag teams, I guess. What year was this? 2001. Oh, my God. Indie wrestling, like shit indie wrestling, will use gimmicks that were like real eye rollers 20 years earlier because they got nothing else to really do. I guess we were all distracted by those burning towers to give a shit about this too much we were like i

don't know man oh this this was actually september 21st 2001 that's exactly what was happening there was a there was a a smoldering pile that nobody gave a fuck about anything else i'm surprised they weren't fighting like you know uh johnny and jason raghead or something though to make it even more racist and dumb you know what i'm saying yeah abdullah abdullah akbar and this guy fighting the hate squad and jesus that doesn't make sense goat references and all kinds of horrible shit. No shit. So he teams up with Glenn Osborne for a while. They have a tag team called the Dark Side there.

Oh, my God. There it is, Jimmy. Your dream. You found it. Oh, boy. You found it. Triple threat match here in 2001 with Rich Myers, the Rebel, and and van hammer the guy you thought he was with the terrible ww or wcw guy god he sucked van hammer yeah he was bad he was fucking bad so um yeah he combat zone wrestling in 2000 jesus christ this is a lot man he's in all this sounds exhausting

keeping all these bookings straight sounds exhausting because he's in different places all the time. That's the thing. When wrestling was such a big deal and there was there was all this demand for it. But all the different places. How do you you've got to have a calendar. You've got to have a person set up to to keep a lot to keep dates. And you hope they will take wrestling tickets as as the fucking payment because I don't have any money. Yeah. And who knows if that's the other thing, too.

Some of these are fly-by-night little companies. You don't know if they're going to pay you. You don't know if you're going to show up. There's going to be 20 people there. You have no fucking idea. Hope is just a giant wrestling fan that helps you so that they just come to these shows. You don't know if they'll have a clean mat or if you're going to get a staph infection when you leave. You have no fucking idea what's going on so in 2002 he's with czw pwf 3pw which was another

ecw knockoff pwf pwf ccw pwf jesus he's all these different things here and he's with a bunch of these fucking these goddamn gimmicks man chi chi cruise rapid fire maldonado what the fuck is that that whole kind of gimmick is that amish roadkill that's my favorite gimmick of all time i've seen that name a lot and it's just a hilarious what would that even be i have no idea you have right if you if it gets run over by a fucking horse and carriage it's a very slow animal that's exactly right you'd have to be holy shit yeah and if a person does it get out of the way it's a horse this is 3pw is even working in the ecw arena so they were really trying to be ecw but they just weren't ecw that's how it is oh my god he does an inter a mixed gender match

in 2002 the blue meanie and jasmine st claire yeah they were a couple and she started had to try to do a wrestling promotion she is the woman who at one time i believe had the record for fucking the most guys in a row on camera oh really i believe that's her at that time jasmine jasmine saint claire because i remember seeing a thing that might be true and people were talking shit because they were like oh your girlfriend takes every dick in the world and then did she take a thousand i don't remember i have no fucking idea i didn't see it but it was i don't want to google that never mind i don't care don't tell me i don't want to know i want my brain clear i don't want to see it at all no they they beat missy hyatt and the rockin rebel missy hyatt

i don't remember ever being a worker she's a manager i don't remember her wrestling ever so that must have been like 550 550 really and then jasmine took a thousand oh my god yes so jasmine wins the match i was gonna say that's probably a low ball for missy hyatt i'm not even kidding like missy hyatt's known for when she did her one shoot interview the though they play little games with them and one of her games was match the cock size to the wrestler and she would tell you how big this guy's dick was and put all these things together on a dick my act my actual nightmare uh yeah that somebody would actually i don't know i'm sure she doesn't care yeah my point is my nightmare of somebody yeah being like that's his and being way off well yeah either direction

they'd show like too cold scorpio it's like 14 inches and they're like here's this guy that's his and being way off well yeah either direction they'd show like too cold scorpio it's like 14 inches and they're like here's this guy that's not good you know what i mean yeah i don't want to i don't want to be part of that no i don't either that sounds that sounds bad so yeah i'm looking over all this i think at this point him being an ecw original is his main draw of why he gets booked all the time is that he's an ECW original and you can put him in the ring with other ECW guys and go it's an ECW originals match you know even though that's not exactly who they're wanting when they say ECW original you know so and this is the time too by the way 94 is when ECW had or 95 had Eddie Guerrero Chris Benoit

yeah Dean Malenko. It was great. And all those workers. Ray Mysterio, the first places he worked in the U.S. was ECW. And he was amazing. Oh, yeah. That whole first hour of Nitro back in the day that had all the luchas and all the smaller guys. All those guys were from ECW.

Okay. So they were mining these fucking – that was the thing too. They'd build up a star and they'd come in. Somebody would pay them. Okay. Paulie ended up making a deal with WWF for a while to kind of make them a feeder system. But they would just sign them from WCW and, you know. You offer a guy $150,000 or do you want to make, you know, $25,000?

Yeah. So it's tough. Comparatively, it's very Yeah. So it's tough. Comparatively, it's very tough to compete. Jesus Christ. What is this? Rockin' Rebel defeats C.J. O'Doyle. What's his gimmick?

He's Irish? C.J.? I'm Irish. What year was that? 2005. Okay, so it could have been. Is that a, no, it's not even a Billy Madison reference. No, I don't know what it is. It's too late. It's too late. I don't know what the hell it is here. But then no, it's not even a Billy Madison reference. No, I don't know what it is.

It's too late. It's too late. I don't know what the hell it is here. But then again, it's wrestling. So wrestling a lot of times is, pop culture wise, is years behind. Yeah, good point. They've also got this thing where they give you the name and the gimmick, the name of the gimmick, then in your head you connect it with something, and then they trot out an entirely different thing.

Yes, that happens all the time. I hate it. And you're like, what is that? I don't get it. How does that even go together? What did you do? I don't understand when those two things, there's a lot of them. And then other ones where it's too much on the nose, too,

where it's those mid-'90s WWF characters, Mantar. Mantar, yeah. You know, Duke the Dumpster Drosy's a garbage man. Dump. Dump shit like that. Yeah, that's not good. That was Vince's jobs phase where he was like, blue-collar guys. I hate that.

He's a garbage man and a wrestler. I hate that the guy that, what is it, New Jack. I hate that he ruined mass transit because that's a great, I think that's a terrific gimmick. It's a fat bus driver. I wish he hadn't stabbed him so much. A fat Ralph Cramden bus driver. Yeah, he ruined that guy.

He was. That would have been awesome eventually. If he was just insane and had like sharpened teeth or some shit. That would be great. That would have been so fun. Brings a wife to the ring that he constantly threatens to beat up. Smack around, send her to the moon. And then he gets beat for the fucking white knight.

It's beautiful. Oh my, that's fucking funny. Yeah, all of these are a lot of Philly matches. All these like little promotions out of Philly and New Jersey, places where he's known and it's also a place where he can be hired and they don't have to fly him in which is another thing that helps that's why a lot of indie wrestlers back then were based in the northeast because there's a lot of promotions they could go do and not because if you're a fly-in you're automatically you have to

have a name that's worthy of flying in and from the west West Coast, it's so much hassle to get anywhere on the east side of this country from the West Coast. It's such a pain in the ass. Oh, huge, big time here. Some of these names, Pinky Sanchez. Yeah.

Andrew Backlund. Is that Bob's son? I don't know. I doubt it. Big Sean Studd. Come on now. Oh, my God. There's Big John Studd.

He's big. I wonder if it's his son. Maybe. Who knows? Jason Gotti, like John Gotti. These are all people he's fighting here. Wow. This is bad gimmicks, man.

Bad gimmicks. Ox, hog. Ox, hog? Ox with two X's. Hog. And two G's? Yes. Okay. Two G. Ox, hog like i guess like boss hog mark west is that the

oh i hope it is it fucking better be i hope somebody pile drove him for a shitty center playing all through the fucking early 90s it gets called for a foul uh every time it matters like it's wrestling there are no fouls they're like like, don't worry. You fouled him. You get free throws. Don't worry. Trust me. You fouled him. So through all of this, yeah, he wrestles all the way up through. I'm seeing 2010.

It gets thin, though. 2007, 2008, there's a lot less matches. I barely see anything for 2009, 2010. I mean, now he's getting older, too. He's born in 62 he's 50 he's almost 50 at this point he's not much left no he's living off of ecw original rock and roll it's all he's living off of now um it's not going well for him as i can see baby huey jesus that's what somebody named playing. Somebody named Baby Huey.

All through this, though, CPW, ACW, WOW, Dreams, Lethal Dreams. I don't know. That's a promotion as well. CCW. All the way. 2016, he's still fighting. He's still wrestling. 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018.

Still all the way there. He fights, what is this? PWE Clash of Titans 2. He fights with Buff Bagwell. This is interesting. Buff Bagwell, Ed House. Is that Eddie House from the Phoenix Suns and ASU? A lot of Suns players.

A lot of them. Richie Nightmare, Rockin' Rebel, and X-Pac. So we know many of these people fight people I've never heard of. But he's on that team with a bunch of people that I've heard of, actually. Adam Anthrax, that's a good name. There was a band called Adam Ant. Yeah, Adam Ant's a guy. Yeah, so he's adam anthrax which is i guess worse i guess tougher more dangerous more dangerous yeah that's that's good shit so

he's wrestling the last i see of him wrestling in 2018 is acw um the last thing i see is may 19th, 2018, ACW Tri-State Title Five-Way Scramble Match. That is a lot. This man fought until his 60s. Almost 60. He was 56 years old. Scott Jeffries beat Adam Anthrax, Bobby Kruger, and the Rockin' Rebel here to win the title. That's at a place called ACW Can You Handle This? Okay.

That is late May, 2018, June 1st, 2018. Okay. About 11, 12 days later, he, I don't know what happened in his house. Cause we'll never know what happened, but he apparently gets in a fight with his wife, Stephanie here this day. Yeah. And by the end of the by the next day, because this nothing happens, nothing's found out about until the next day. He Jesus Christ, he shot his wife to death and then shot himself in the living room.

He did it. He did it. He killed her and killed himself um people once the police arrived there was other people there because they're jesus christ man they're two uh two 10 year old children found them what they did that he did this i guess they're both 10 or else they really got fucking real close yeah but that's insane so they fucking so they're 10 year old kids in the house came upstairs or came to wherever they sleep and found them in the morning found them in the living room both

oh my god mom shot to death and him blew his brains out. Oh, shit. Yeah. That is, that's really rough here. A neighbor said. Those children. Oh, fuck. A neighbor said they were quiet. They kept to themselves, but there was always problems over there.

The police were there a lot. So they've been fighting for years. They've been fighting for years. The police are always over there and we'll find out he's all fucked up in the head, too, which obviously doesn't excuse it because he's been doing this for 20 years. They've been fighting for years. The police are always over there. And we'll find out he's all fucked up in the head, too, which obviously doesn't excuse it because he's been doing this for 20 years. But the GoFundMe page for the expenses for the kids, too, said her family considered her firstborn leader, the glue, the best friend, the heart of gold, the crafty one, the brain, and most importantly, the best mother of those children that they could ever have. But this guy killed him. so this guy killed her so on only days earlier i guess on may 29th 2018 at 4 29 a.m jesus he posted so he's up at 4 30 in the morning maybe he's up working out getting road work and maybe he's got a day job yeah he does through all this he's gotta he said days of spending time with the ones who love

you and you love them are far and few make them count that's what he posts and then 48 hours later he will destroy his whole family and kill himself ruins his wife. Ruins all those words that he just typed. This was along with a happy picture of his wife and children. Holy. Yep. So they were, like I said, found by the two 10-year-old children. They were talking about that CTE, they believe, has a big role in this. He had, I guess, revealed that he had already put his name on the list to donate his brain to science. To science, yeah.

Because he was all fucked up. They said, Sean Waltman, here's X-Pac, he says this, quote, People have heard about the murder-suicide in the Philadelphia area. Rockin' Rebel. His name is Chuck Williams. He was an ECW original. I don't know. I know the guy just casually and he

was always nice to me but you guys i don't go by i can only judge him by how he was to me bullshit i watch how how people treat others oh i like that i really i fucking really hate when people are like i don't know he's always nice to me like okay but you just when you found out how shitty he is to other people do you want to be around someone why is he nice to me. Like, okay, but you just, when you found out how shitty he is to other people, do you want to be around someone? Why is he nice to you? And at what point will he stop being nice to you and treat you like everybody else?

And what he did, it's okay to say that's a really fucked up thing that this guy just did. He destroyed two children's lives. Like, and if he didn't destroy them and completely make it the worst thing, he certainly upended those lives and their lives are never going to be the same. And he robbed them, robbed them of their mother.

That's crazy to just be like, he was a great guy and I never saw him. Who cares what you never saw? Yeah, that's what I mean. You didn't see it. It doesn't matter. And he goes on.

This is smart because he goes on to say there's ulterior motives for people treating me well sometimes because he's very famous. So wrest who aren't very famous are gonna kiss his ass because maybe they'll tell a promoter you should put this guy on this show because i like working with him or something that's good for you to kiss his ass so we've got a friend that's not famous doesn't do anything in comedy that just recently made an enormous fucking mistake and i probably will never talk to that guy again it's yeah well you can take that but no no well i mean because of that but it's it's worse it's deeper than yeah yeah that's i mean there's other shit but it's a it's a scummy it's scummy to treat people i don't want that person around me around my life that's nuts no that's what i mean and i i that's a big thing you hear too in wrestling he said it

like that because wrestlers always in interviews are like oh he's always nice to me that's the way a lot of wrestlers unless they're like jim cornette or the honky-tonk man or certain guys most wrestlers don't they just like to kind of not stir the pot with shit like that they'll go i don't know he's always all right to me or that guy was always okay or i don't know you know cool to me that's their way of deflecting it and not talking about he's not having it yeah i don't have to face it exactly and he's not having it though he said um so i watch how they treat others especially when they don't think i'm paying attention i'm really so sad by this let me read something real quick an ecw original sent me this quote he wasn't a good guy at all. Stephanie lived in fear for her life all the time.

Yeah. Quote, Chuck did time in the 90s for holding her hostage in a closet with a gun to her head. His family talked her into not pressing charges. She would try to leave him and he would always threaten to kill himself. The one time she tried to leave, he called her at her mom's so 20 years of terrorizing her yeah well he did something worse when he called it the mom's quote he said he was going to kill himself he lit a firecracker to make him think he just shot himself over the what the fuck man just mental torture type shit he was a bully and a piece of shit it seems like a lot of

people failed this poor woman and now there are two 10 year old kids that don't have a mom and it's so fucking sad there you go that's the truth right there i mean dude that's light a firecracker to fuck with people dude you're a dick and he and from what it sounds like it sounds like he's a guy who treats people above him on the ladder better and people below him worse, which is the sign of terrible character. Right. It's a sign of somebody that's using other people for their own gain. And that's a sociopath style shit. That's not okay.

Not great. Shane Douglas said, quote, I didn't read any of the Facebook posts and I didn't know his wife. But my condolences to the family and obviously the children. The biggest heartbreak of this thing to me is that the kids were in the house. Allegedly, from what I'm reading online, the kids were in the house when this happened. He said, can you can you imagine if you hear a couple of shots and you find your mother and father just lying there dead? I can't think of anything more horrible for a child. No kid should have to witness something like that, let alone the loss of their mother at the hands of their father yeah yeah it's it's a

lot so they're talking about you know whether it's cte or not it doesn't fucking matter this is a this is a disaster so obviously this is horrible i mean these kids i can't even begin to it's horrific to think about that i mean jesus Jesus, this poor lady, all these people. I feel bad for all these people, Jimmy, all of them. But not nearly as bad. Oh, Jesus. Actually, I feel worse for them. But for the gimmick, we'll say it.

For the gimmick, we'll say it. Not nearly as bad as I feel for Charles Williams, umpire. He was an umpire here from 78 to 99 in the National League of the Major League Baseball. 21 years. Look at that. He was the fourth black umpire to be a full-time umpire. Fuck yeah. And he became the first black umpire of the Major League All-Star game.

Awesome. And also the first to work a World Series. He's fucking good at it. He's good at it. Charles Williams, soccer player, uh, an English professional footballer who was the first black player in Britain. One of the first black players in British football,

uh, after the second war world war and later became Britain's first well-known black standup comedian. Is that right? He's a fucking comic. Yeah. Guy's a comic. So another guy there, uh, died in 2000 something. Did he, does he comic. Yeah, guy's a comic. So another guy there.

He died in 2000-something. Is he dead? Yeah, he died in 2006. So there you go. Charles Williams. He works for, what is this? I don't even know where he works. Electronic Health Network.

Passionate advocate and entrepreneur for small business and protecting your health information. Yeah. Charles Williams, Vice President, Digital Transformation, Digital Strategy at Lumen Technologies here in Atlanta. Here's another guy, not a Charles Williams, a Donnie Martin, but he's a wrestler that goes by the Rockin' Rebel. Why would he do that? I don't know. Have you no Google, sir? Well, it's in 1998. There's a picture of him.

Look at this, by the way. Let me turn this monitor. Look at this fucking guy. What the fuck? He looks like a dipshit, and he looks like he's about 15 years out of date, too. Yeah, he looks like his skin is clammy. Donnie Martin, the rockin' rebel on TCI Cable's TV3, has wrestled with the WCW and would like to get into professional wrestling full time. He's got dreams.

Donnie Martin, known as the Rock and Rebel on TCI, has wrestled, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he's so recognizable to local wrestling fans, he doesn't want to take away from the WCW show, he said. He literally said that. He said that. Listen to this. i'm too much of a star if i go to wcw i'll just like drown out the stars he said this is in the fucking newspaper quote i used to go to matches but the last time i did the car the crowd started chanting rebel rebel and i had to back off i don't want to take anything away from the guys he means by being in the stands to watch he said he came to the stands this guy you wouldn't recognize this guy if you in a fucking crowd of auto mechanics are you kidding me never he said he went there didn't

wasn't ringside wasn't managing just bought a regular ticket there's you know there was like kevin hall and scott kevin nash and scott hall are in the ring fucking fighting like sting and macho man and the crowd hogan lost interest in all that nobody cares about that no it's it's one of those really good like uh you know benoit guerrero fucking no not looking that. They just that's the rebel rebel rebel. The man's just in a Michael Jackson wig. It's it's so stupid. I don't want to take anything away from the guy. He's 38 years old.

He said he's been wrestling since he was 29, wearing a Confederate vest, and his trademark as his trademark. He wrestles across the Southeast for Southeastern Pro Wrestling, and tapes of the matches are played locally over TCI cable on Saturdays. His next area appearance is at the Doster Community Center in Prattville. He said it's all in good fun, meaning his Confederate garb. All the kids love it, black and white. Yeah, that's... Oh, I'm sure they do.

I'm sure they're... They can't get enough of it. They can't get enough of it. Yeah, that's good stuff. Fucking idiot. He said he was really small in the beginning when he first started wrestling. Quote, people didn't think I'd make it. Unless his next line is, and they were right as fucking rain, because here I am.

And they nailed it. And they nailed it. And they nailed it. He said a friend suggested he use the name Rebel, but he said that, you know, so he went with it. He said he's 5'10", 225. Again, those are. Giant man. And he describes his wrestling persona as a good guy with an attitude. Very edgy.

Jesus Christ, man. He says, about six years ago, this is from the article, about six years ago, he wrestled, although unsuccessfully, in matches against the Road Warriors, Midnight Express, and Doom. Yes, you're a TV job guy, that's called. He said, I got in the ring and it didn't last long.

He said he'd like to be hired by WCW or the WWF, and he has sent them tapes of his matches and when they got done laughing at him he said until he makes it to the big time he's running his own vending machine business called donnie's vending sell those bear. And keeps in shape by jogging and working in his yard. Just sell fucking Doritos to the fucking receptionist and shut up. This is 98. You're going to, the rock is the biggest thing in the world.

Stone Cold Steve, you're going to be that right now? No. Right. You're going to drop your vending? Somebody get my quarters while I go do this. What are you fucking kidding me? He's married, poor woman, and has two sons, two stepdaughters, five dogs, and a pet pig.

Legally blind since an illness when he was three months old, he wears dark glasses to protect his sensitive eyes. He's got cataracts. In a fucking arena, they have bright lights. And when you're on your back, which you certainly will be anytime you wrestle, sir, you're going to be looking at those lights. You bet.

And it's going to hurt you. He dropped out of school in the eighth grade. So great education, wonderful career. Yeah. And he's there. He's got a fucking disability, for Christ's sake. He's blind. Yeah.

Legally. And not like they said Stan Hansen was blind. He didn't have his glasses this guy's fucking light sensitive for christ's can't drive at night probably no if he walks down the street that blinking and noise from the from the crosswalk is for him that's for him yeah that's for there's braille on the thing for him yeah those bumpy things at the entryway of a ramp is because he can't see it. So they said, quote, he said, although this is the paper, although most people think wrestling is mostly faked, he says. He says, quote, I take it to heart.

Wrestling is sports entertainment. It's not fake if you get into it. It's got a story to tell. You've got to be in shape. There's a lot of competition and there's a lot of entertainment. Yes true true true true true that's all true yes there's nothing fake about being slammed on a mat that hurts the fake part is is who wins that's the fake part that's the only part that's fake honestly the fake part is the storyline everything else is real everything it's just who wins and loses everything else is pretty fucking real honestly you get in there

this guy has to climb up a top rope. He falls and crashes loud. It hurts. It's all real except for the ending, I guess. He says that people like to be, it's a form of release. They like to be entertained. He said, quote, they like to holler and scream. If something's been bothering them, they get to holler for the good guy or the bad guy. So, shocker, that guy never went anywhere.

There's another Charles Williams, one more, who is very close to our Charles Williams here. This is the quote. The jury is deciding whether Charles Williams was the gunman in Burlington City. Apparently, somebody entered the McDonald's on Route 130 in Burlington City just before midnight, March 7th, 1992, ordered a cheeseburger and fries, sat down, ate them, waited as the other customers left, and then pulled a gun on the night manager, ordered him to empty the money from the cash registers and the safe and all that. Then the gunman forced the manager and his fellow employees to lie face down in the drive-thru, then shot them point-blank range. Yep. Executed them.

Yep. What year was that? 92. Yep. The third person got away, the third employee, as he was shooting the other two. He got up and ran for his fucking life and got away. Wow. So his lawyer, though, the guy who's accused of it is Charles Williams.

And they say Charles Williams was not in the Burlington City McDonald's on March 8th, 1992. That's his whole defense. That's his story. Wasn't there. Wasn't me. Another guy. Charles Williams, very common name, everybody. Have you checked the wrestler?

Yeah, have you checked the wrestler? So I guess they're talking about his ears are different than the composite picture. Okay. His lawyer says, look at Charles Williams' ears. Look at the other aspects of the picture that don't match Charles Williams. His ears, the person didn't notice his ears as he was running for his life after having two people shot. Well, he had brain on his clothes. Unless they're a cauliflower ear and they stand out like that, then you don't, what are you talking about?

They'd look different. It's fucking ridiculous. So here's some other stuff about Charles, our Charles Williams, rock and rebel here. Talking about, this was on Dipshit Vince Russo's podcast here. God damn it, he's annoying. He's the only guy who could make me not be able to stand an Italian guy from New York, where I'm like,

oh God, just shut the fuck up already. What show did he used to be on where it was him, Vince, and somebody or Russo and somebody? Somebody and Russo? He was on a morning show with somebody. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't think so. I believe so. No, no, no.

You're talking about the New York Sports Radio no no no no that's you're talking about the new york sports radio show oh maybe you're talking about mad yeah that's mike and the mad dog and rooster you're right yeah that's a wfan guy for 25 years no no this is the guy who ran who was in charge of the writing for wwf quote-unquote writing during the attitude era and then wcw bought him basically and then he tanked that and drove him to the ground and then has pretty much been a in and out of every promotion since then

taking money and not really being all that good at booking and I don't know that's just my opinion on the guy but he talks a lot he's a real asshole he's the guy by the way whether you like or hate Jim Cornette he's the guy who Jim Cornette wants to murder all the time and fucking hates him. Oh, really? He's that guy.

Yeah. He's anti-everything. He hates him, which he goes too far with it. And also somewhere in the middle is a strange – Vince Russo is a douchebag and nobody really likes him. There. There. That's fine. You don't have to murder him.

It's one of those things. So on his podcast in 2018 he's got one i don't even know if it's still around but in 2018 on the june 7th edition which was the week this happened it's called castrating the marks that's a very nice uh yeah it's uh co-hosted by a noel uh noelrasso, who is, I guess, married now to Big Vito, the wrestler, who was around forever, an ECW guy. So they're kind of getting into this, talking about this. I guess they're mad because Dave Meltzer, who's kind of a wrestling quote-unquote journalist, was talking about this. And so they're trying to get into you know who did what here

um so uh this vince says talks to the noel and says these weren't just acquaintances you had a history with this family you guys had a very tight-knit community of wrestlers because she said she was friends with his wife oh these are all, they were all ECW people back in the day, the Big Vito and Rebel. So they said, you've got to explain so people don't make the assumption that you met the guy at a wrestling show. And she says, no.

And he says, give me some background of the relationship. She said, yeah, I'm not trying to be exploitive, because really what I want to do is I want people to remember my friend Stephanie, because everybody's focused on Rock and Rebel because he's a wrestler. People knew him from ECW. People knew him from this or that.

And it's sensational. So people are sharing his picture and sharing his stories, but nobody's sharing anything about Stephanie. She said, I met Chuck and Stephanie when I was 19 years old. I worked at a district court where one of the constables was a wrestler. I was married at the time. Previously, I was younger. district court where one of the constables was a wrestler i was married at the time previously i was younger so we went and we went to the wrestling show and i made friends with both of them and i had gotten involved in wrestling so i've known them since i was 19 and i'm on the latter end of

30 so that's how long i've known these two um so she says veto's known them as almost as long as i have we spent holidays together their kids call us aunt and uncle. Oh, my. That's terrible for the poor kids, man. He didn't have a lot of family. His parents passed away. So we would Christmas Eve, we'd have Christmas Eve, and we used to have what we'd call wrestle giving, where all the community of wrestlers would come together and we'd all bring food.

That's pretty rad. That's cool. That's how tight we all were. And she said it was about a year ago, things started getting a little strange with him, meaning Charles. He started acting very strange. It had been going on where he had these where they had confrontations. I get a phone call at three o'clock in the morning and she would be upset and crying and yelling.

And then Vito would have to call him and calm him down. Really? So for probably the better part of three years, we kept them from fighting. Jesus, that's brutal, man. That's a terrible job to have. And other people in this little group did the same, but it was mainly Vito and myself. So Vito asked Rebel to go and get checked for CTE. And I know sometimes, I know, and Vince jumps in because he always interrupts people you are also

telling me Noel that or Noel whatever it is uh I know this other guy that's there knows a bit about this because he's a worker but I mean the guy had like handshakes I mean and stuff like that meaning his hands were shaking god he's such a terrible man at speaking Vince really yeah she said yeah it got pretty bad where his hands were shaking he worked as a landscaper during the week there you go that's his day job where he owned a business he would go to a job and she said he would forget where he was going he called where am i going again that wasn't the grocery store it was a job his job and he would call her and not know where he was in his hometown i don't even know where I'm at.

Where he lived. She said, like, he started having major issues. And see, here's people that we're close to. And unless you're, like, sitting here and watching it and somebody's telling you, you don't notice or you don't know that there's something wrong with somebody. You kind of have to know what you're looking for. And obviously, Vito is an advocate for CTE awareness. So he noticed these problems with the temper and getting lost and shaking. And he said, Chuck, let me take you to my doctor.

He's like, let me take you. They did this brain mapping with me. I found out how many concussions I had. Like I'm learning to treat things. He's like, come with me. He says, I'll take you. I'll drive you. I'll take you for a beer after. Let's go. But he wouldn't do things. He's like, come with me. He says, I'll take you. I'll drive you. I'll take you for a beer after.

Let's go. But he wouldn't do it. He was in denial. He didn't want to know. He'd say, oh, I'm fine or I'm just tired or I've been working a lot or I was, you know, whatever. So meanwhile, I was trying to tell her, meaning Stephanie, hey, listen, like together, why don't you and I go talk to Chuck? And she was trying to get him to go.

He went to therapy for a few times just to talk, but he wouldn't go regularly. He was terrified something was wrong with him. Terrified. So he wouldn't go and get checked out. And to anybody that's a worker or in a contact sport, man, you go to your go to your neurologist. Please, please, please go to your neurologist before something like this happens. It's awful. It's awful. It's terrible.

And you know, my husband's come on many times and talked about, I come on many and for some reason my brain saw come on me and I was like, my husband's come on me many times. Is that what you're saying during this? No. My husband's come on many times and talked about what he goes through with CTE and with post-concussion syndrome. And it's honestly terrible, terrible. And so, yeah, they talk about that.

She said, you know, it happens all the time. People lose it. They said that Vito had problems, but he treats it. They said Chuck wouldn't treat it. He wouldn't take medication. He wouldn't go to the doctor. He just couldn't consign himself, But there was something wrong in his brain. Plus, he was still working.

That's why. He's not supposed to be. And he knows that if he goes to do that. And he wants to wrestle still. So they said about a year ago he started acting very, very strange. It got worse. He started pushing a group of friends away. I mean, there's a good group of people who have known each other more than 15 years, did holidays,

vacations, everything together. We all did everything together and we always knew Chuck was a little brash or he'd have like a bad attitude sometimes, but he was the first one, if you were in trouble to be there. When I had my stroke, he told me he was a, he was my brother to get me to the ICU to see if he told me he was my brother to get me to the ICU to see if he was okay with his wife. So yeah, they were the first one. So it's not like you can look at somebody and go, you were a bad person. You did this bad thing. Oh my God, it's the worst thing I could think of. But a year ago, she told me he was going to do this a year ago. And I begged her to leave, begged her. I said, come to my house and stay with me i have the room here i'm an empty

nester my kids in college like my other kids away from school come take uh come take the kids and move here she has twins a boy and a girl there you go and she says i can't he'll find me and if he finds me he'll kill me that's a lady who is just struggling terrified struggling with with guilt about how she she did nothing or was unable. Lady, it's not your fault. You didn't do anything. You can offer a way out, but you can't force someone to do this. You can't.

If he finds me, he'll kill me. It's a terrible place for this poor woman to be in. And I said, there's got to be a way to get you out. I offered to buy video cameras, the little ones to put in her house, because she would call the police when he would get violent. And then he would do something like scratch himself or whatever. So when the police came, he would go, well, she hit me, too. So then that way they would go, well, we have to take both of you in because he says you hit her.

And then she would go, no, no, no. And then that's how that goes. She would go, no, no, no. And then that's how that goes. She didn't want her kids to go to foster care or to be taken away because they both got put in jail for domestic assault, which is a. Yeah. So. Well, now what?

Where are they now? Yeah. That's the thing. What the fuck? So, yep. Which is a major, major problem and flaw in the way we do things, quite honestly. So they wouldn't believe they wouldn't do anything. Honestly, they just kept coming to the house over and over and over again. It kind of fell on Vito and I to like get them to calm down. I can't tell you how many times Vito drove over there. He would be in a meeting and he would

leave and go over there and try to calm him down or, you know, leave here or leave the hospital when I was in the hospital and I'd go over there to calm him down. I mean, this went on for years after I had the stroke. Vito said, we can't, we can't, we just can't keep doing this. Our lives are getting extraordinarily complicated and difficult. Yeah. And then they were getting 3am phone calls. She said, I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't do it anymore. But she was telling me he was going to, uh, he was going to do it. And she knew. She told me where her papers were. She told me to make sure her children were taken care of. This week, her sister messaged me and said, Stephanie said

you will always have her back and you understand. I need to know did she want buried? Did she want cremated? Zay didn't know. I had to make those decisions this week. I don't even want to think about it. I'm sick. I'm sick thinking about it.

She just didn't tell anybody. And we were the ones that knew. But the police had been there dozens and dozens of times and they just drove away and they didn't do anything. Nothing. It's this is brutal. At the end of the day, you've got grown ass adults that need to make mature decisions. And this is a cyclical cycle of violence that's not stopping it's not necessarily on the cops i mean granted there's probably something the cops could have done in terms of uh for uh keeping this from

happening right now you know what i mean at least uh impeding yeah but this was on a collision course to happen and nobody was going to be able to do anything no that's no no and he's not going to stop even because of the kids because clearly i mean he did it with them in the fucking house the fuck man yeah they're not going to be with jesus christ so helpless so they go on to uh talk about dave melzer um and but they really talk a lot of shit about Rob Feinstein who Rob Feinstein used to run RF Video which did all the shoot interviews back in the day and they also did the taping

of like the fan cams for the ECW shows and sold them so he was always around he got chokeslammed by 9-1-1 one time he also made a special appearance on To Catch a Predator where yeah there's a video out there where he caught a predator no no no oh no is the guy who was talking to apparently allegedly

talking to a younger person on the video and showed up and for some young boy yep he ended up i don't think charges ended up getting filed but you can see it. It's definitely not good. What's his name? Rob Feinstein. Uh-huh. Or Feinstein. So, yeah, if you look up him RF video, it'll come up. You'll get it there. So they're talking about how he tried to capitalize on this. Like he says, he tries to capitalize on everything.

Yeah. It's interesting here. They talk about, you you know whenever somebody dies he starts whipping out eight by tens and selling them yeah which is crazy um and uh they also talk a lot of shit about a little bit of shit about dave melzer um here as well um which i mean melzer melzer's a very polarizing figure half the people in wrestling think he's smart and he knows he's talking about and the other half hate his guts and fucking think he's the worst person in the world so um yeah they go on to talk a little bit more about cte and things like that because they i guess melzer said veto lied lied about Benoit's. It's a long story. So it doesn't matter.

The point is that obviously Rebel had some problems here. Yeah. And the cycle was never going to be broken. They were just going to continue this path of self-destruction. She didn't fucking leave. So it's horrible. And she couldn't. She felt like she was going to be murdered if she left.

And then she ends up being murdered to be there. So it's horrible. And she couldn't. She felt like she was going to be murdered if she left. And then she ends up being murdered to be there. So it's terrible. June 21st, 2018, they announced that his brain will be donated for CTE research. So at least something comes out of it here. Yeah, I guess identified by Pennsylvania police as having shot his wife and killed himself. The attorney for the family announced that his brain tissue is being studied for CTE. Out of this immense tragedy, the family hopes to find some answers.

Yeah, I think you're going to find some fucking answers here. And they're really comparing it with Chris Benoit a lot, but obviously no one he wasn't as popular as Chris Benoit. So they're talking about this Kairos law currently represents other families of wrestlers identified as having CTE.

Balls Mahoney, who used to take chair shots left and right. Axel Rotten, who would get beat with barbed wire baseball bats. Jimmy Super Vlaysnuka, Mr. Fuji, all these guys. So, yeah, the lawsuit was filed against WWE. And I think it got shipped. I think it got fucking. I think it got fucking. Yeah, sent back. Now, according to cagematch.com, which they do like wrestling, kind of have lists of all their matches and promotions and titles.

Kind of like a wrestling IMDB. Oh, okay. Yeah, type of deal here. They have Rockin' Rebel here as the 41st worst rated wrestler listed on their website. He's got a 1.48. There's only 40 worse than him. Yeah. I mean, and there's wrestlers who are way worse than him.

A lot of that comes from the fact that he fucking killed his wife. Yeah. If he didn't kill his wife, he'd be mediocre. He dropped several rankings post the murder. People made sure to go in there and give him a bad ranking just because he did that. So I feel like that's... Plus, he was not the best guy, but he wasn't a... I mean, he was a whatever.

He was a champion at one point. He's an average worker. I mean, an average, nothing spectacular, nothing great, but I mean, he wasn't... But you murdered your wife, and who gives a shit? It kind of goes out the window at that point. So that is The Rockin rebel and uh crazy fucking story and also we mixed in kind of ecw fun in there because like i said there's not a lot on rock and rebel but what he did was so bad we can't just not talk about it can't just not bring him up ever not have an episode on it so

what a holy shit story if you get hit in the head a lot get that checked out isn't that amazing that that that your head uh can cause so many things to go wrong it's fucking terrifying yeah it's weird terrifying for someone who averages about three concussions a year like i do it's weird that your your central uh computer if it gets shaken around and beaten that uh think bad things can happen yeah it's fucking baffling. Take your laptop, walk out your front door, and just throw it on your driveway. Frisbee that motherfucker. Don't spike it.

Just toss it lightly onto the driveway and see if it works great afterwards. That's your brain when it gets hit. Wild, man. It is wild. And for all this, this is your brain on drugs shit with eggs in the 80s on the frying pan. Who knew that it was like fucking everything? Yeah. Be careful with your brain.

Yeah. Forget the drugs. Just fucking anything. This is your brain. Don't crack it open and put it in the pan to begin with. How about that? We could save ourselves a lot of trouble. Don't whack your open and put it in the pan to begin with. How about that? We could save ourselves a lot of trouble. Don't whack your head.

Be careful. That helps a lot. Holy shit. So there you go. If you like that show, tell the world about it. Tell your friends about it. Give us five stars. Do it all because, damn it, we work hard on crime and sports and we want people to enjoy it.

So it helps a lot. Thank you for doing that. Also, listen to our other shows for sure. Small Town Murder and Your Stupid Opinions, our brand new show. And it's hilarious where we make fun of opinions from all over the internet, making fun of bad reviews. And trust us, it's fucking funny. Check that out for sure. You definitely want to head over to Shutupandgivememurder.com.

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What else do I want? Yeah. Dot com slash Crime in Sports. That's where the good stuff is. More, boy, what else do I want? Yeah! Patreon.com slash crimeinsports. That's where the good stuff is. More good stuff, we should say. But that's amazing. We have that. Anybody $5 a month or above, a mere cup of coffee will get you so much stuff.

A whole big back catalog of like 200 episodes of bonus episodes. That's the only place I've ever been available. And you also get new ones every other week. This week, which you're going to get for Crime and Sports, which you'll obviously have access to. We are going to talk about the TV show Pros vs. Joes. Wow. And we are going to laugh at fucking... We're going to laugh at a warehouse worker who thinks he can tackle Ricky Williams.

Or some dipshit who thinks he can rebound against Dennis Rodman. It's hilarious and we're going to have a lot of fun with it. Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about Sarah Boone, who has yet to go to trial. So we'll call her the alleged suitcase killer. But it is not alleged. She definitely zipped her boyfriend in a suitcase. Her intent is the only thing that's alleged. There it is.

Yeah, that's the only thing that they have on trial. And her interrogation is one of the funniest fucking things i've ever seen in my life and we'll go through it it's so the cops are such morons in this thing it's amazing they're the worst at this ever you and i could have went in there and done a way better murder interrogation not i'm not even shitting you terrible so much so that we'll talk look she didn't even know she had no fucking idea what was happening because no no one did no it's crazy patreon.com slash crime and sports and you'll get a shout out when jimmy right now jimmy hit me with the names of the people who would never ever beat our heads in with chairs until we had such bad cte that we murdered our wives and had wives and had our

children find the corpses jim, hit me with that list right now. This week's executive producers are Kyle Norwig, Diane Helmendoller, Helen McKenzie, Thomas Bollinger, and Laura Forgy. Thank you all so much for being a part of this. Thank you, awesome people.

Other producers this week are Steve Dipshitiate. He's a wrestling fan extraordinaire that's hey all right yes funk the best funk uh peyton meadows hank's donut world i don't know what that is a reference to hank's donut world is uh overboard that is where that is where in kayfabe we'll say we'll stick with the wrestling from crime and sports list this week but that is where he told oldie hawn they met. Oh, okay. Remember Hank's Donut World?

He used to hang out there every night when you were in the Navy. I was in the Navy? I was in the Armed Forces. You've got to remember, you were in the Navy. You were in the Navy. Tiffany Gonzalez, happy birthday, Tiff. It's good to see your name. I love you so much.

See you. Janice Hill, Trey Volkanar Harry Dangleberry Biscuit Lacoste Pam Allen Alex Esquivel Casey Adam

Ray Brower Nidhi Bryson Morris. Gina Marie. Cody Alcoyne. Jerkface Gremlin. Green Marie. Green Mary Acres.

I don't know if that's real. Is that a place? A place? It might be a cemetery. We don't know. Oh, maybe. Dana Berry. Annie with no last name.

Jacob. LDG. Krista Meyer. Cody Stoompejee. Stoompejasee, Stoompejee, Isa, Isa, Isa, Aliamama. All right. What the hell? Aliamama. She said it.

Isa said it. Oh, my God. ML, the letters. M and L. Zoe Keller, Danielle Delp, I think, Amy Benz, Queefy Sharts, that's disgusting, Sabrina Rennie, Paige Hollander, Felicia Greider, MM, the letters, both letters brought you this show, Gina Ann, Alfie, Alfie Simchich, Kristen Baggett, Bagot, Bagot, Roe Jogan, Penny Trayshon. Oh, you son of a bitch. Stephanie Wood, Sam Stankiewicz, Cameron Carpenter, The Forest Goat, Jacob Vest, Melanie Brown, Clay Moore, Fat Little Gringo.

All right, now we and Nick Bedrosian. All right. Kristen Stone, Mike Danzer, Jane Malkinoff. I don'tian. All right. Kristen Stone. Mike Danzer. Jane Melkenoff. I don't know. All right. Aaron Anderson. That sounds dirty, but I'm not sure.

I'm going to go with probably the name. Cody Brannan. Gina Wolfenkuhler. Wolfkuhler. Wolfkuh. Cool name. Wolfkuhl. That's what it is, I think.

Okay. God damn it. David Benson. Darcy Ellis. Sarah Goentay. Sarah. David Boyle. Arsenic catnip. Oh, boy. that's what it is i think okay god damn it david benson darcy ellis sarah going to hey sarah uh david boyle ate arsenic catnip oh boy adrian r uh jonathan don't ever fucking do it i'm not a look not an advocate for hurting animals all right jonathan don't do no last name nathan it's terrible for era uh rachel combs anybody out there going, hurt animals, fuck them.

Don't you do it. Hope not. You'll go to jail. Star Reim. Lemon Tree. Christy Black. Kelsey with a K. Meredith Zolte.

Max DeMau. DeMau. Keener with no last name. Grace Annabelle Oatway. Sean Gelsenays. Gelsenays. Elena Johnson. Zeke Doody, Tara Ketstever, Cursed, Cece Kuhl, Suzanne Sutton, Olivia Crutcher, All right. Teeny, Teeny, Christine. Rebecca Connors. Tyler Schwebel. Schwebel. Zarin Walk.

Nicholas Wright. Dylan Ryan. Karen Schumacher. Laura Sue. William Fitch. Anna Marie. Navarro Perez. Is that one name?

I really wandered through that one. Yeah, I was like, what the hell just happened? That's a handle, Anna Marie. Brittany Baumann. Mandy with no last name. Doug Brown. Patrick Pickett. Ryan Maynard.

Maynard. Janet. Janet Neat. Dina. Dina Craiglow. Carla Mead. Devin Shue. Cass with no last name.

Honey Hudson. Caitlin. Callan. Kaelin. Kaelin with no last name. Lisa Young. Amanda Raulacaitis. Raulacaitis. Shit. Sounds. That's notis. Rawlickaitis.

Shit, that's not easy. Whitney with no last name. Ruth Boehm. Ruth Boehm. Bloem, Hunter. Anthony Smith. Mike Kellogg. Got that Kellogg's money.

Young David. Car sinner. Car sinner. All right, Becca Mouse. Yeah, he does. He's a real sinner. Oh, boy. Don't get in the car with that man.

Kim Burton. Corey Allen. Melissa with a real sinner. Oh, boy. Don't get in the car with that man. Katie Kerwood, Jason Edward Hensley, Alisa Ashley, Ashley Dandridge, Christian McCann, Tricia Brugman, Angela Thomas, Gemini Heather, Jason Fish, Adriana Tinginero, Tina Jero, Alana Maxwell. I got real Spanish on you. Amy Broussard, Michael Horton, Ashley Stark, Liz Hoover, Antonio Madrigal, Jill Hood, BigSexy74, because there's 73 others. I don't want you to get mixed up. Mark Proctor, Justine

with no last name, Grisp with no last name, Brett Sawyer, Bubba Snotterly, Marie Blanche Gillette, Austin Davis, Tim Morgan, John Williams, Judy Bittner, Mikey T. Jordan with no last name, and every one of our goddamn producers. You're fantastic. Thank you.

Thank you so much, everybody, for all that you do for us. We cannot thank you enough. Honestly, you've changed our lives, and we appreciate the shit out of it. So thank you for doing that. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for doing everything. You want to find us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com. It's got links to everything. Do that. Keep hanging out with us. Thanks for doing everything. You want to find us on social media? Shut up and give me murder.com. It's got links to everything. Do

that. Keep hanging out with us. Watch your brain damage. Don't kill your wife or wives and have your children find your corpses. That's bad. We've decided that this week that that is not crime and sports approved behavior. Keep doing that

and keep coming back and hanging out with us. Live from the Crime and sports studios. We will see you next week. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.