Crime in Sports - #437 - From Pioneer To Prisoner - Tom Payne - Part 1

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

This week, we look at a man who broke barriers, both in good ways, and VERY bad ways. He was the first black player in the history of Kentucky basketball. He was one of the first players to come out of college, early, to join the NBA. His future seemed bright, until multiple accusations pop up, concerning the tallest rapist in history. He even has a certain signature to let police know what he did. Will he turn it all around, for part 2??Become a pioneer of race relations, claim "hardship" to get into the NBA, so you can take care of your family, and be arrested for many rapes, in multiple states with Tom Payne - Part 1!!Check us out, every Tuesday!We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us again on another edition of Crime and Sports. Here we are going to do another revisit Episode here from one of our first like 15 episodes that we did where we had a guy who? Just a career criminal and we had we spent an hour on it

So there's no way that we didn't miss a bunch of stuff and didn't get into the details So we're gonna cover him a little bit more thoroughly this time, because he's a real scumbag. We'll get into it. One of our top scumbags, really. We've referenced him dozens of times since then. Before that, quickly head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Get your merchandise, get your tickets for live small town murder shows, especially-

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You British limey bastards. What are we? What are you doing over there? Everyone's involved then for small-town murder. I have to push remote viewing back to one more patreon I'm sorry everybody anybody who really wanted to hear the remote viewing Patreon. We have to talk about the cult baby murder trial. We have to because I watched this whole trial, not only the trial, their lifestyle, there's polygamy and a cult and they all have new names and they drink their own pee. They drink their own pee every day and the guy insists on the stand that if you do your own research, you'll find out that that's the best thing for you. It's fucking crazy.

It's this insane corner of survivalist hippie mixed with weird religious conservatism but of their own making. They don't have like a, they made up their own dogma. It's the weirdest shit ever. We'll get into all that. The trial's just crazy. Choose your own making. They don't have like a, they made up their own dogma. It's the weirdest shit ever. We'll get into all that. The trials are crazy. Choose your own adventure. Oh, it's crazy.

And I feel so bad for the defendant here. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. Get on it, it's gonna be a lot of fun. That said, let's get into this right now. All right, here we go. Let's do this. We are gonna talk about Tom Payne again. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah, Thomas Tom Payne again. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Thomas Robert Payne Jr. Now he came up in the, in an episode a few weeks ago, wondering if another accused rapist was possibly his dad. I don't think so is what we, the final conclusion is I think it might just be a common name. That's unbelievable. It is, this is Tom. And you know, I did some research on it too and found that his dad was in, or his dad was in jail at a time that Tom Paine was not, or vice versa.

But either way, it couldn't have been him if he was in prison. It's fucking wild. This is Thomas Robert Paine Jr., of course. At the time, we didn't realize how significant that was back in episode nine or 10 or whatever the hell this was. He was born November 19th, 1950. He's born in California, a giant guy,

and that's one of the main things here is, you can't, it's really hard to be a career criminal if you're tall, it's just hard. It's real hard. We a career criminal if you're tall. It's just hard. It's real hard. I mean, we were watching one episode of something and the guy said that the killer, the witness said the killer was six foot four. So there was another murder the next night, like, you know, half a mile away. And they said that murder was also six foot four.

So they deduced that it must be the same person because it has to be because there's they said percentage of people six four and over is less than one percent. So the odds of it being two six four killers and a half, but it's got to be the same guy. You just can't murder if you're tall. It's just not good. I'd be terrible if you get caught so fast. Organizing a lineup is going to be difficult. Then you've got to organize a lineup. It's a lot, especially if you're Tom Payne, you're 7'2". Who the hell are you going to put next to him?

Him and Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, they go, it's not Kareem or Wilt, I guess. I think it's him. When I saw the baseline racists before he was caught, I'll never forget what he looks like. His face is very, very significant. But also a very tall guy. I think he's 6'3 or 6'4. And it's like, you can't miss him.

That's the problem. You gotta be 5'10 if you're going to be like a serial criminal of any kind. You have to be 5'10. Average height. That's how Bundy got away with it for so long. He was like 5'11. He just looked like everybody.

So he just blended right in. If Bundy was 6'4", he'd never even got to Utah. His ass would have been caught for the sammamish killings, like sammamish shit. They would have had real tall guy. Oh, there he is. Tall guy squeezing himself into a Volkswagen bug somehow. It was crazy. Watching his legs fold up in there. So this guy here, his mother's name is Elaine. His father is Thomas Payne Sr., obviously. His father was a military man for over 20 years, so a career military guy. Thomas is one of nine siblings. Is that right? Nine.

Yeah, a lot of kids here. And two of his sisters went to medical school and a brother of his went to law school. So this is not a bad family that just produces nine ne'er-do-wells and releases them into the world here. Tom is of his own doing here. I guess it says he was born in California, but then I also hear he was born in Louisville. So I'm not sure where he was actually born or where he grew up or whatever, but he's the eldest of nine children and probably the biggest too, which is interesting. They probably went down in size from there.

How do you, it's, he's set in the bar. Seven two is pretty big. Yeah. You got a, that's a big guy. He, they moved a lot when he was a kid because his dad's a military guy. So Jesus, you'd think that the army just to keep costs down would keep his family in place because to move a family with that many kids would be a fucking disaster. That'd be expensive, right? They can't even go in one car. You need like... Yeah, you've got to have a van. You need like two vans for that many kids. That's a lot of kids or like a you know small bus or something

So he grew up He said he grew up kind of naive a little bit as a lot of kids do he says well Well here start it right off quote unquote from Tom. I knew people called me an n-word He obviously says it but you know he has a little more leeway to say that than I do but I Being a seven foot two black man in America. I feel like he could say it a little easier. I Shouldn't he should yeah, but I didn't know anything about discrimination. I was sheltered on an army base It wasn't like the real world And I hear I've heard that a lot from back in the day there the the army at that time, like post World War II and that sort of thing was pretty, there's everybody and nobody was really treated differently than anybody else because, you know, there

was everybody there. It was, you know, the army was a, was an equal place. It was sure merit based. You know what I mean? Anybody willing to die for it, come on through. Well yeah. And if you work hard and do all your shit and the your commanding officers don't treat you worse because you're, you know, good point. Even if they are racist, they they like that guy. He's good on the squad. We need him. You know what I mean? So, yeah, he said that wasn't like the real world. He was the longest baby ever born at the local hospital he was born. Okay, the longest. So just like that is a fascinating way that we say that.

Well, they can't stand, so we can't say tall, which is funny. Yeah, but. And that's all it is, we say length because. Yeah, that's the only difference, because they're laying down. We're measuring them laying down, that's it. If we pick the baby up and stretch them out,

then we could do it tall, I think, but. But if you couldn't walk, they wouldn't call you long. No, no. The other thing is too, we don't know what a baby's true measurement is. I think but but if you if you couldn't walk they wouldn't call you long The other thing is too we don't know what a baby's true measurement is have you ever have you ever seen a baby just lay Still and straight a newborn They're fucking fucking arms moving. They're all they're all curled up and everything. They're all pulled up how do you stretch them out? That's crazy. Nobody's doing that. I don't think so Yeah, he grew up in a home where their parents were, his parents are very, very into doing well in school.

That's as noted by his sisters who went to medical school and brother went to law school, you know. So that was a big deal. His mother, Elaine, saved every newspaper clipping and every article that he ever was mentioned in for basketball and his father is a Master Sergeant in the US Army and then retired and his mother also had a bachelor's degree in biology so okay back then for for not I mean few people had college degrees at all back in the 40s but for a black woman to have a college degree

in the 40s, that's pretty good shit. Thomas has all of his siblings are well educated, 14 college degrees total out of nine kids here. God damn. So yeah, education, big deal in this family, obviously. His mother said, Tom as a young boy had varied interests, but he especially loved animals Okay, didn't expect that did you everybody? No, no, it's a big animal I don't yeah. Yeah, he was always very unselfish when he first turned pro He bought an El Dorado and everybody was driving it put him when I went to visit him in Atlanta He had loaned out all his clothes. He was never interested in materialism. Huh.

So he just, he's very generous apparently. He bought a big old Cadillac and never drove it. Just let everybody else drive it. Yeah. He said his father was a, she said his father was a first sergeant in the army. We lived from California to Georgia to Germany and then moved back to Louisville in 1966. Tom was 16 at the army. We lived from California to Georgia to Germany and then moved back to Louisville in 1966. Tom was 16 at the time. Tom grew up in a disciplined home and in the most strict environment. Profanity wasn't allowed on the base. Prejudice was not prevalent. So he grew up in a

very straight... He was a dude, rigid, yeah. He grew up like he was in the military I mean that was it dad's a master sergeant he keeps the family in line mom keeps everybody in line they're on a military base so there's a lot of rules there you know it's not like the kids are cutting up as much as they would be if they weren't on a base probably 66 Louisville is uh is is uh Muhammad Ali there at the time or is he off well he's already he's already heavyweight champion by then Is Muhammad Ali there at the time, or is he off being a professional fighter? He's already heavyweight champion by then.

Yeah, he's been champ for two years, I think. He beat Liston in 64, I wanna say. No, no, he's not there anymore. I mean, he might come back once in a while, but he's hanging out. All the cool people have left. Hunter Thompson's gone from there, Ali's gone. This is Tom Vane.

At age 12, Tom was 6 foot 4. What? Pretty big. That's... God damn. That's big. That's getting fucking big. Then he's going to end up being 7'2".

So, wow. 7'2". Yeah, it fits. It tracks. When he joined the Emmanuel Baptist Church at the age of 16, he was 6'10 and a half and he had to get down on his knees for them to baptize him. They couldn't baptize him, he was too tall to be baptized. He's got a crouch in the tub. He had to fucking get down on his knees so they could pour water over his head or whatever. So that's pretty fun. Obviously every coach since the time he was nine is like, that kid plays

basketball right? Holy shit, look at him. I mean, he's a specimen for basketball. He's fucking better, yeah. And he does, he goes to Shawnee High School in Louisville. He's gonna be an All-American there, obviously. But he wasn't, he didn't play organized basketball until his sophomore season, like sophomore year of high school. Really?

Yeah, because he grew up on the base and then they moved back to Louisville and I think his dad retired from the army. That was like when he was 15, 16. And then he's going to school and that's when he started playing basketball. So apparently on the base, basketball isn't a big deal for him. So yeah, he does this. He said, the first year I couldn't even dunk the ball.

He says little guys would kick my butt. It was embarrassing How about that just that is unorganized? I don't even coordinate it I don't know or native. Yeah unorthodox unorganized and uncoordinated is what he is But to be six foot ten. Yeah, right and not be able to dunk a basketball You basically have to jump like an inch and a half. It's that's really uncoordinated But you got to be you got gotta be comfortable with that growth too. So like, and when you grow that fast, there's no way you can fucking manage that.

I mean, I guess at that height though, it shouldn't be that hard to just go up and put it in, man. It's right fucking there. You're right there. You're right there. Just jump up and tap that bitch in. It's not that hard. Trying to think, cause I,

I don't know if maybe if you're that tall, you'd be different. Cause like, I'm trying to think because I I don't know if maybe if you're that tall you'd be different because like I'm trying to think like I had a giant growth spurt like I was when I was 12 I was like five foot seven yeah and then over a summer I went to six foot three like you know and then I grew like another inch after that but that was a for shit that was a long I went from you to me in a summer basically it's crazy and it was a it was a long, I went from you to me in a summer basically. That's crazy. And it was a lot, but I, it didn't like, it wasn't uncoordinated and shit, like I still skateboarded all the way through it and all that kind of thing.

So I don't know how uncoordinated you would get if you, maybe if you're that tall though, you're so gangly. Yeah, yeah. And if you're skinny too, and you know what I mean? Yeah. Worried about falling down and... Yeah, maybe that's it also. But by the time he's a senior, they just had to teach him what to do because I mean, the

skills are all there physically. So by the time he's a senior, everybody's recruiting him, including UCLA, who was the big powerhouse at the time where they had, you know, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and then Bill Walton and they were a dynasty. They won all these titles under John Wooden in the sixties, but he chooses the University of Kentucky. Might as well. He's going with Kentucky University, whatever the fuck it is. On June 9th, 1969, he signed with Kentucky. He was number one, the tallest player to ever play at the school at seven foot two at the time.

And he is the first ever black player signed by Adolf Rupp. Is that right? Shocking that the coach whose name is Adolf didn't like the black guys on the team. But Kentucky was famous. They were famous for not having any black basketball players. They're a Yukon of them. Yeah. But well past the time when everybody else had black players. They're a Yukon of them. Yeah, but well past the time when everybody else

had black players. And I believe there is a tournament game, I want to say, one of the tournament games where they got their asses kicked by a smaller school that had an all black lineup when they had no black guys and they just got smoked. And at that point, like that's when the boosters started saying, you got to start recruiting some black kids, aid off.

Yeah, open the doors, man. This is crazy. This is basketball. Like what are we doing? This is what we're getting. Yeah, and run. This isn't golf here. We're getting our asses kicked.

Fucking stop doing this shit. He was touted as the next Kareem Abdul-Jabbar basically. That's at the time there because I mean, he was just a a big guy but he had a hard time adjusting to life at Kentucky. He had a bad test score on his entrance exam and so he couldn't play on the Kentucky freshman team because he didn't meet the academic requirements to play basketball there at all. Sure. So that's a problem. Back then by the way freshmen weren't even eligible to play varsity basketball you weren't allowed Hmm. So they had a freshman team that you would play on so he ended up playing for an AAU team called Jerry's restaurant

Which is not as prestigious as the Kentucky Wildcats. No, I can't imagine it is playing for the Wildcats this year No, no, I'm playing I'm playing for for the breakfast specials. They gots with their They're trying to promote it. So they call us Jerry's restaurant breakfast specials 3.99 special for the moons over Miami is what we're playing for and we go. Oh man. This was in the 60s Goddamn, what was breakfast in a dollar? Oh Christ if that yeah, yeah, we're gonna 85 cents for some breakfast Yeah, yeah There was a Jerry's restaurant in Phoenix when I was a kid that we used to eat at every Sunday Yeah, no dollar 99. Yeah, I know where that is. It's down like Indian school or some Indian school. Yeah, yeah

24th yeah, 30 something at 30. This is 24th 24th. Maybe yeah, whatever. Yeah, that's I always go drive past that and I go who goes there Because in Phoenix, it's it's in such a weird place too, in Phoenix, I'm always like, who goes to this place? There's never anyone in there either. There's like a corporate center behind it or something, or like a hotel or something? I don't know, there's like- If it's a hotel, it's not a good one over there.

It's just weird, nondescript buildings all around it, that don't have like names or anything. It's just like corporate complexes, and then a Jerry's shit restaurant. And then this weird, very generic restaurant that's like, and I always, I'm curious because I love diners. So I'm like, is it like a diner? I don't know.

It's not good. No, it didn't look like it. It's trash. We've got privately owned Denny's. That's all. Denny's, Jerry's, same shit. So he, Payne said becoming finally a Kentucky Wildcat was the biggest thrill of his life. I can't

imagine. He said when they say number 54 Tom Payne and to run out there for the first time ever that was like an overwhelming feeling. Sure. He's all he's overwhelmed with joy. Think about it right now. This is the end of the movie where he finally got on the court and they announces Jersey and he doesn't care how the game plays out because he's there and it doesn't matter and he's feeling good. Grace. That's a grace I think, right? It can't get better than this for him. How can it?

And it doesn't too. Doesn't get any better here. He has to apparently pay his own way to college. This is interesting. Yeah, there's an article here in the Paducah Sun here that we all of course have a subscription to comes comes to the front porch every every morning. The old Paducah Sun. Yeah, Tom Payne may be the only boy in the nation who is seven foot one prep All America prep basketball player and still is paying his own way to college.

This just isn't done. Payne could have had scholarships to about 350 other schools, but he wanted to play for Kentucky. He is the first Negro signed to a basketball grant in aid by the Wildcats, but that isn't the point. He said, I've always just wanted to play at Kentucky, he said in an interview just before he dropped in to see his fellow freshmen practice in Memorial Coliseum. You see, Payne isn't allowed to practice or play with them. NCAA rules specify that a youngster must score 19 points on his entrance test to be eligible

for college athletics. Payne was two points short, so he must sit out for one year. Oh, he's dumb. Yeah, I don't think he's the brightest bulb, as we'll find out by his actions, he's dumb. He's a yeah, I don't think he's the brightest bulb as we'll find out by his actions that he's no one can live his life and be considered bright. Put it that way. No one at all. They say most other youngsters would have dropped out of school enrolled elsewhere and

moved on to the basketball floor. Not pain though. He signed up with a local AAU team, hit the books, and is reportedly doing well enough that he probably will be eligible to play varsity ball next year as a sophomore. To make it, he needs a grade point average of 1.6. Very low. That is between a D and a D plus basically. Yeah, I think that's how I graduated high school. That is pretty much where I was skating most of the time. Pretty close, yeah.

I was skating in those waters on top of that fucking slab of ice for a long time. For an ice, yeah. I'm gonna move on, that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, that is nice. I said, well I think that's about enough for me, I don't think I need to keep going back here, do I? So you're saying I didn't fail. All right. What's the difference between this and a GED is what I said.

I'm dropping out. This is stupid. I'm really fucking up here. Meantime he's experiencing or acquiring experience on the basketball floor playing with a team that includes ex Kentucky players, John Adams, Phil Argento, Scotty Baszler, and that meets some of the best athletes in the nation. Payne said, I'm learning a lot this way. We play against a couple guys, 6'9 and 6'10, who collapse on me, and it's helping me improve

my moves tremendously. In addition, it's good for him to be playing against men. That's what he's doing, is playing against adults. The difference between 18-year-old very skilled basketball and 25 year old very skilled basketball is a world of fucking difference. That's why it was so amazing when LeBron came in and was a good player right away. Yeah, and could compete. Physically, you just can't compete.

It took Kobe four years to be anything but a fucking complete drag on the court. He was a detriment to the team every time he stepped on the fucking floor until, you know, 2001 or so, maybe 2000, he started to be a little less of a liability out there. So, um, but that's, this makes sense. He said, in addition, he's getting more experience than he would have had as a normal freshman and isn't losing any time in coordinating himself with his teammates next year. He said they'll just be playing about 20 or two games this season. 20 or two games this season? 20 or two? I don't know. He said with me I can play in 45 games. He said it gives me an edge. On top of that we do play together every day in the gym in gym class and we'll play together next summer. So I'm sure we'll know each other's moves

and well enough to make a good team. So they figured out a way that he actually does practice with the team. They just don't call it practice. They call it gym class. Okay. They just happen to put all of the guys that he plays with in the same gym class so he could play basketball with them all the time. But it's not a practice or anything. Yeah. It's not against the rules everybody. It's gym class. And he's gonna pass this with an A which is gonna sure fucking GPA up in a second bring it way up yeah pain also feels he isn't losing much experience because his teammates are ex-kentucky players and we run about the same plays that the Kentucky varsity does he's just

practicing Adolf Rupp has been using the same style of play for nearly 40 years quite innovative of you not bad his innovation was, maybe we get some black guys, huh? What do you think? We'll keep doing the same thing. Imagine if we just did this but like, you know, faster and like with more athleticism and stuff. Yeah. How about that?

What do you think, everybody? Different names on the back of the jersey. Maybe a Washington or a Jefferson. These guys, I can't even remember these kids we have. Hey, crew cut, come here a minute. We got a four inch vertical with those going on. Yeah. So yeah, that's what he says. He's been using that. It has made him the winningest coach in America with one one break even season and no losing ones in all that time. He did it. He was apparently a very good coach. Also, I heard the other thing about Adolf Rupp.

Here's a behind the scenes thing. I think it was the Virginia Squires of the ABA. Can't remember if it was them. Somebody hired him to be, maybe it was the Tams, whatever the fuck it was. Somebody hired Adolf Rupp basically on the ABA teams after he retired in the 70s, just to have his face basically, just to have his name.

Just his Adolf Rupp, yeah. He's Adolf Rupp, if he goes to, they can send him to some corporate dinner thing and he'll whatever the fuck, right? So these, the guy who had to like go pick Adolf Rupp up and like take him to the stadium or to the arena and all this shit said he's a horrible person, who as soon as he gets a couple drinks in him,

just his racial slurs flying out of his mouth, left and right. Just a little bit of booze? Two drinks, he said. It was N-word this, N-word that, these little, I'll tell you the problem with these people and those people. He said it was so bad that this guy

who idolized Adolf Rupp and thought he was such a legend, by the time they got there, Adolf Rupp had taken a liking to him and said, you want to watch the game with me? And the guy goes, I can't, I can't. And he said, I couldn't sit there for another three hours and listen to this shit. It was just too much. That's what a great guy he is. So they say, right now, Kentucky is ranked number one in the country.

Payne, as a freshman, couldn't be playing with the varsity team even if he were academically eligible, but does he rue not being part of the top ranked team? He quote, Oh no, we'll be ranked number one for the next four or five years. I've watched those freshmen and when they join the sophomores and juniors on varsity, well, look out. You better. Oh yeah. Payne, the eldest of nine children of a retired army first sergeant now a resident of Louisville gets plenty of Watching time he is at every Kentucky game sitting on the front row and jumping up and down like the players on the bench Next year he can get a closer look so he's just on the team, but not technically on the team

Introducing him so that one when he is there It's not overwhelming sitting in the in overwhelming sitting on the bench in the stadium. And to the fans you're introducing him. Yeah, get him acclimated and get a face out there. So 1970, 71 Wildcats, they are 22 and six. They are ranked eighth in the final AP poll. Looking at this here, Tom Payne, looks like he's one of the top minutes getters that year

Not too shabby other guys. I can't really nobody that really Stands out as somebody that everybody would know as far as like a later on NBA players from 69 So you'd have to be a big fan like 70s a BA NBA to know a lot of these guys From the award-winning masters of audio horror. I see a face right up against the window. Bleach white, no hair, black eyes, a round hole for a mouth. It's flat, Taylor. It's completely flat. I don't know what that is. I don't know what kind of a head is flat. Comes the return of Dark Sanctum.

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Did you know that after World War II, the US government quietly brought former Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology? Or that in the 1950s, the US Army conducted a secret experiment by releasing bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public? These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not. They're well-documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades. I'm Luke Lamanna, a Marine Corps recon vent, and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown. It's what led me to start my new podcast, Redacted Declassified Mysteries.

In it, I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye-opening events like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power Tried to keep buried follow redacted declassified mysteries with me Luke Lamanna on the wonderi app or wherever you get your Podcasts to listen ad free join wonderi plus in the wonderi app But he's he's the most minute getter meaning he's a very nice piece to this team Yeah, he's third in the in the on the team in minutes this year 29.1 minutes a game in 28 games. He averaged 16.9 points a game, which is a bad for a guy who just started playing With them too. It's not too shabby and 10.1 rebound. So he's doing 17 and 10 and he's brand new double double That's that's fucking impressive. I double out of the gate. That's fucking impressive I gotta say. That's not bad at all. He got his grades up a little bit and was able to

play this year. He earned all Southern Conference honors and all that kind of thing here. Problem is some trouble starts to develop for him this year. What kind of trouble? Starts to realize that he's maybe not so comfortable as he thought he might be here at Kentucky because the crowd, he is by the way the first black guy that Kentucky ever had. Oh boy in Kentucky. So there is a plenty of people in that crowd who do not like that reversing the policy of not having black guys. So that is very prevalent. That's like half their fans. Absolutely. Payne said quote, say 18,000 call one black person an N word. What kind of effect do you think that has on that black person? It doesn't sound fun that 18,000 people who are supposed

to be on. Those are the people that like you. That's what I mean. What happens when you go somewhere else? Yeah. They said it was a shocking reality for the entire Payne family. And Payne's younger brother, Darrell, said it still hurt him later. He said, I can recall going to UK games, me and my father, and we would be the only African-Americans in the whole stadium. Wow. Yeah, they weren't. Shockingly, the Kentucky basketball program wasn't real popular

with black folk having a rule that they had no black players. So that didn't make them the most popular team for black people around to watch, you know, as you can imagine. And if you're on the court as the only black guy out there and there's a group of, I don't know, six or eight people that look like you, they got to assume, oh look, that's his family.

That's what I mean. They know that they're together. And they're cheering extra when he gets the ball. It's probably him. Everyone else sits down, they stand up when he gets the ball. The crowd goes silent except for like these, what, nine other black people yelling in the whole stadium. Where there's a man, a woman, and some children that are not his age, which seems like, you know,

brothers and sisters. Families and such. And there's a man yelling, come on, son, great job. I'm thinking maybe. That's my boy. This guy, you know, was in the military. Probably was in wars. Probably was in Korea and shit.

Yeah, disrespected him. So the brother goes on to say, to be sitting down and hearing all these racial slurs about my brother my role model somebody I looked up to all my life and my father having to sit and listen to these things being said about his son it's about you too chief it's not just oh you but I think you can lump yourself in there with that probably I think about how hard it was for us but more importantly how hard it was for Tommy. You know it's hard enough if you're just playing you know big-time basketball for the first time. Now you gotta worry about this. And then you've got a fucking audience full of racists. Oh yeah tons of them. It's unbelievable.

And outright too. I mean they weren't quiet about this shit. There was no there was no like, you know, mean type of behavior. This was just shout the N word as loud as you can so that guy can hear you. No one's even trying to be clever about it back then, you know? Right. It's just- Like winky or whatever bullshit they want to pull now. They're just mad. They're just pissed. Teammate Jim Andrews remembers what it was like for Payne when the team played

in Mississippi and Alabama. Oh, I'm sure it was a little less friendly. Super welcoming. He said it was very tough. The racial slurs and the other cursing and threats that were made, you couldn't help but hear those things. And Tom said he started to get pissed off. He said, my goal back then was I'm gonna show them.

I'll play better. Okay. In a road game against Tennessee, He said my goal back then was I'm gonna show them. I'll play better. Okay and in the In a road game against Tennessee pain flipped Jim Woodall head over heels battling for a rebound just flipped this dude Oh, I've seen this highlight the referees whistled pain for a flagrant foul and ejected him and In a rematch against Tennessee pain again flagrantly flat I fouled Woodall and was ejected from that game also. Something tells me Woodall said something to him that he didn't like.

Sounds like he said something and it sounds like whatever Woodall was trying to do worked also because they got one of their best players thrown out of two games. He was also ejected from a home game against Alabama for objecting to a referee's call. And he said his temper was exacerbated by the constant racial slurs that he heard as raining down upon him. That's what he said. So he was in the spotlight a lot, and it started to get to him here.

He said he was taunted a lot. One banner in a Tennessee game, a banner, this is a banner said, N-word Tom, but spelled out. Oh my God. What does this not fit? And then I don't even know how to, I have to just say it, Coon Tom after that, dot dot dot Coon Tom.

I think you made your point with the N-word one, right? Yeah, that's a little redundant. Are you gonna go with all of them? You don't need to double up on that. There's a whole lot of them. Well there was a piece of tape and they ripped that off and then the banner fell like four more layers and it was just like wow Jesus they really got everything in there. You got them all.

Wow what is that? Did he say moon cricket on there? Jesus Christ. I think that's everything right? The N-word to that I think we're... This is fucking ridiculous. Who the fuck brings a sign they made that at home Someone was making that someone walked by while they were making and said oh, it's coming along nice looks good think about that

This is someone's living room floor. It is so fucking disheartening how many Disparaging words there are and they could have gone, that list could have been crazy. It's fucking asinine. And that's, I'm just, wow, that's wild. I don't, I'm just, it's fucking sad. That's really so sad, man. This fucking guy, man, he's just trying to play basketball. How many names do you need? Yeah, all he wants to do is play a game. He's not saying, okay, every game it doesn't say on the ticket, if Tom Payne scores 30

points and Kentucky wins, he gets to go out with your daughter. That's not on the ticket. So there's nothing personal here. And the Kentucky fans want Kentucky to win. That's the other thing. They bought tickets to see a team that they want to win and they're going to make one of their best players play worse. It doesn't make sense. They do those promotions were like five free

throws from your home team and you get tacos from a restaurant or whatever yeah like there's not there's not five five free throws from Tom Payne he gets to face fuck your mother gets to finger your sister I believe is the how it was put on the deck they've got a calm down. This is wild, man. It's really so sad. Payne said, at first, I was always able to overshadow the jeers, taunts, and incidents with my performance. That's what he was trying to do.

And this isn't, by the way, alleged or anything. This shit is well documented. There's pictures of these signs. All the teammates back him up and say, oh, I don't know how the fuck he did it. That shit was crazy. Real Jackie Robinson stuff. It's rough. So pain continued to improve during the season. He scored 34 points in one game against Georgia, 39 points in a game against LSU.

Damn. So he's looking really good. He scored 30 in a game against Auburn that clinched the Southern Conference regular season title for Kentucky,illing it. So there's an article about him in the Lexington Herald January 10th, 1971. Did you ever see a 7'2 guard? Tom Payne may qualify. The big sophomore looking better with every game brought the ball down the court a couple of times after his teammates deserted him in the back court. He dazzled the crowd with a behind the back dribble and miraculously kept possession of the ball in the process

Not a lot of seven foot two guys. No with handles in the fucking 1969 Yeah, they didn't have a lot in 1982. There was no 96. No there really wasn't honestly Yeah, there's now you got your Kevin Durant's and a couple guys like that But I mean when be when B's real awkward too. He's fucking awkward as shit. He's incredible, but he's also. So good at it, but it's the least controlled. Yeah, it's not. It's so.

It looks so bad. It's the ball's got to come so high, man. Yeah, that's the thing. That's why guards are small, because there's less. Plus, when there's less room between your hand and the ground, there's less chance to steal it as well Right and there and there's more opportunity to redirect where the balls bouncing from that high over it Yeah, period watching watching minute bowl dribble was so fucking scary

Oh watching him run was scary because I thought his legs were gonna break as he ran every time every time he'd sprint up the court I was like Okay, okay, okay, he'd sprint up the court, I was like, oh, okay, okay, okay. He'd stop short and be like, oh no, oh man. Not just break, but snap in half and leave his shin. And his boy, his son, Bulbul, is the same way, man. He's a fan favorite wherever he plays because, yeah, he's not as big, but he's still fucking weird

and awkward to watch because they got, when you're that big your foot's huge too so it's like a shuffle down the court more than a run watch the minute bull william the refrigerator perry celebrity boxing match if you want to see the strangest spectacle just the two of them standing by each other with boxing gloves is hilarious and then they start punching which is even funnier. Bull just jabs him away the whole time and Perry can't get anywhere near him. It's fucking hilarious.

So yeah they talk about that. He's dazzling people with that. At one time in the latter half of the second period Rupp had three sophomores and two juniors in the game. Payne, Andrews and Larry Stamper provided the soft core, while Kent Hollenback and Stan Key represented the juniors. For those of you who like to look forward to years to come, you might keep this combination in mind.

And when you consider that Tom Parker was on the bench at the time, even spices up the speculation a little bit more. The coach was very impressed with the performance of Payne as he scored 16 points and had 17 rebounds. Commenting on Payne's antics on the floor, he said, Payne really set the crowd on fire with that dribbling behind his back. I sure thought he'd fall on the ball and burst it or something.

Jesus is he that much of a clumsy shit? He's going to Mark Sanchez this fucking thing. Like what are we talking about? It's ruined the whole day. Jesus. But he handled himself just as graceful as could be expected. And Rupp added that pain has been suffering from a pulled tendon in his foot and asked to be taken out of the game. He said, we haven't said anything about it because we don't want it to appear as if we're making any excuses. So overall, goddamn good season for Tom.

Damn good, 17 points, 10 rebounds. A fucking strong season. They said the low point of his basketball career though came with the Kentucky Invitational Tournament. Kentucky lost the final but Pain made the all-tournament team. When his name was announced announced the hometown fans booed oh they booed him for playing well for them why would they do that because they don't like him

that period um wow pain said i cried that night i wanted to quit school but my people wouldn't let me uh-huh yeah why am i playing here? Fuck these people. I'll go play for UCLA. They'll fucking, I'll be a star, I'll be on TV every week and they'll cheer for me no matter what fucking color I am. What do I care? This is great. Why would you stay here? That's ridiculous. After one year, he did want out and he also wanted the, basically this is when the NBA and ABA were fighting over players, hard courts, before the merger, before any talks. So this is when, first you couldn't draft an underclassmen.

Then the ABA started taking underclassmen, so the NBA had to do it too, because they were getting a lot of great fuckin' players that way. And we're gonna miss out on somebody if we don't fucking start grabbing them. So this year, in the 1971 NBA draft, he wants to go into the draft

because the Atlanta Hawks are very interested in him. And he said, without a moment's thought about it, I was just going to run and take that money. Which, I don't blame him. You're gonna stay there, and if people shout racial slurs at you, or at least go somewhere where they fucking pay you, why not?

So this year, number one draft pick, NBA draft 1971, Jimmy. 71? Are you kidding me? That's why I said it's odd. Connie Hawkins, I don't know, that's the only one I know. Dick Van Arsdale. I'll just name a bunch of sons players. Just old sons players?

Is that all your name? I don't fucking know anybody from 71. Frank Johnson! He's a... Shouting at Tom Chambers. Austin Carr from Notre Dame. Really? Yes, he did play 10 years in the league, averaging 15.4 points.

So not terrible. Sydney Wicks, number two. That's a UCLA guy. That's a good program, putting out a player ahead of where he should be because he averages well actually not that bad what is the average here eight point seven read but 16.8 points eight point seven rebounds at ten years in the NBA is not too shabby yeah 17 and 9 is pretty goddamn good Elmore Smith from Kentucky State University after that okay you got Ken Duritt from LaSalle, George Trapp, Fred

Brown, Cliff Mealy, Darrell Hillman, Darnell Hillman, you know all these guys right Jimmy? Yeah they're all huge. They're all big guys here, this is big stuff. Fred Hilton, Rick Fisher, I know you're a big Rick Fisher's fan, you're always wearing that jersey when we're on the road. This is my Rick Fisher, it's my good luck. I wear it to fly. So Jesus, this is fucking funny. So yeah, he is going to be basically taken with, there's a, basically because he's poor, so they do, they start having these drafts for if you need the money now type of draft because essentially

it's obviously against everything that America stands for to say that someone's willing to pay you money for a service and you're not allowed to take that money for a service. And you're an adult person over the age of 18. Like there's obviously completely and utterly unconstitutional. So when it was pushed in those terms, they would make other people have to have the opportunity first. James, that's how other people first. So Spencer Haywood was drafted in that draft in the fourth round. Interesting. He's a great player later on. Had some problems, but a goddamn good player. So anyway, here this year now, there's a Z Zerbiak. Is that Wally's dad?

It's gotta be. It's a W. Zerbiak. A W. Zerbiak, spelled the same way? Are you fucking kidding me? He was drafted by Phoenix, but looks like he never played in the NBA. Oh. Interesting. So during this summer, Payne has some problems. In August of this year, a police officer is going to cite him for speeding in his new Cadillac. The car was registered to a Pennsylvania auto dealer, and it was rumored that teams from the NBA and ABA were coveting Payne, and the car was

a gift from the Pittsburgh Condors to play for the ABA. Hilarious. And that was a thing reading the ABA book that they absolutely did, was give college kids cars and give people shit like that to try to get them the fucking sign. And leaving it in the dealership's name is genius because then you don't have to say that it's yours. You can say I'm borrowing it. Exactly.

Fucking it's a borrowed car. And that's what they do a lot with the college players. They would give them loans. Alumni's would loan them cars. They'd just say, oh, I'm borrowing this car from my friend. And that was that. It's a friend's car. Yeah.

So here's an article from 71 August 29, 71. Questions persist. Speculation persists whether University of Kentucky basketball player Tom Payne has placed his name on the National Basketball Association's hardship draft list. That's what it was called, the hardship draft. He needs money.

He needs, that's to take care of your family, you need money. Now his family's not poor, but he's saying that I need money. I'm seven too. So I'm gonna call, you know what pants cost me? Jesus. Shoes, shit, underwear, fuck. Jeans are expensive, yeah.

But the chances of the seven foot two junior to be playing for the Wildcats next season appear even more remote Pain became the center of controversy the past few days when it was learned. He was ticketed for speeding who cares Was he doing it dragging a like a Girl Scout troop behind him off the bumper that he ran over who gives a shit How fast was he going was it on the freeway was it a hundred and thirty miles an hour in a school zone so I mean we're old ladies diving out of the way right through a church bizarre just fucking nuns leaping to the safety what happened to ruin his life he was driving a 1971 Cadillac with Pennsylvania plates at the time since then it's been reported pain plans to

join a professional team rather than return to play for UK. He said he's said to be on a list of 14 players being considered by the NBA for its September 10th draft. Reports conflict as to whether he has placed his name in the NBA's draft draft list. And if he plans to do the same with the American Basketball Association, which schedule scheduled a hardship draft for September 14th. They're going to have one right after that. The Lexington Herald reported Saturday that other sources claim an ABA team already had made Payne a fantastic offer and that the new car was a gift. So he would apply for the draft. OK, whatever the case, it appears doubtful the pain will return to UK.

For one thing, Payne has nine hours of incomplete grades facing him at the university. Should he return to school, he would have to make up examinations in three courses and pass all three to remain eligible to play. Even if he does complete his coursework, however, the NCAA says Payne still may be ineligible. Tom Hanson of the NCAA's headquarters in Kansas City said Friday, quote, As soon as they, meaning the hardship cases, indicate to either of the leagues they want to be placed on the draft list, they are no longer eligible. Oh, the minute he tells them to put his name on the list, he's through. Our interpretation is that he has indicated

his desire to become a professional. All right, so that is on the 29th of August. The only thing really that's up in the air is who's going to pay him to play basketball. Where's he going? Yeah. Two days later, August 31st, 1971, the Paducah son warrant out on Tom Payne. Not a warrant to come play for the team. No. A warrant for his arrest.

Yeah. A warrant was issued Mondays for the arrest of Tom Pay for his arrest. Yeah, a warrant was issued Monday for the arrest of Tom Payne, whose status as a University of Kentucky basketball player remains unclear, but should be clear within three days. Payne failed to appear in a Fayette court on a speeding citation leading to the warrant. Meanwhile, it was learned that he intends to make an announcement on his future plans Thursday at 3pm at his Louisville home. Well I know where you can serve that warrant. At the press conference he's going to hold maybe.

There has been speculations. Got somewhere to be right? Yeah he's going to be people taking pictures of him and shit. You can really get it documented. There's been speculation that he may sign a professional contract and the Louisville Career Journal said he was one of 15 college basketball players listed on the NBA's hardship draft list. Payne has been unavailable for comment for more than a week. He was cited August 21st for the speeding charge while driving a 71 Cadillac. The license plates on the car

however were registered to General Sales Inc. Route 2 Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania. The owner of that firm, Edward Stecker, said he never heard of either Payne or the car. It's registered. I don't know anything about it. Oh my God. Who? What car? How do you put that in the paper and then not have a paragraph going, of course, that's the silliest thing anyone's ever heard because this man fucking owns it and registered it with the state of Pennsylvania. I don't know anything about that car.

Wow. I've no, I could see, don't know anything about pain. Maybe it was through an alumni, but I don't know about the car. How about you look through your registrations? You're probably having a drawer somewhere. Refresh your fucking memory, stupid. God damn it. These fucking people, NCAA officials have been quoted as saying that any college player who has his name placed

on the professional hardship draft list would be ineligible for further college play. Yeah, the hardship draft is a supplemental draft conducted for those players who are having financial troubles and cannot continue their college careers, even with scholarships. Meantime it was learned there are also three warrants in Lexington Police Court for Payne on minor traffic violations for which he never appeared for hearing or pay fines. He has four warrants out for him right now. Four. Never takes care of anything.

No. And does a press conference after that. That is wild. September 1st, very recently, Payne was apprehended in Lexington for speeding. He hasn't showed up to pay the ticket and he has several more outstanding there. When he was stopped, he was driving a Cadillac and obviously it wasn't his. He's someone's, he's driving someone, the car wasn't his, someone had let him use it. He's driving someone's Cadillac but has no food for his wife and child there's an incongruity somewhere because he's

saying I have a wife and child I gotta I gotta get paid to play and they're saying well how the fuck do you have a Cadillac then if you have no money that doesn't sound like a hard line yeah yeah so he's not gonna be eligible anyway so he's gonna go into the supplemental draft here and he's going it says here's an article pain leaving uk four nba teams want him they're saying oh that's good four uh the newspaper quoted the seven foot two pain the first black basketball player in uk history is saying i'm just not the pioneer type saying you don't want to stay here and be the only black guy and he said i'm not the pioneer type.

That shit's hard. Tell me when the town's built and I'll get back when the plumbing starts working. I'm not going to be the guy digging the trenches. Fuck that. I don't blame him. He's expected to be included in the hardship draft. Four National Basketball Association teams have expressed an interest in the UK pivot man and the newspaper said one is prepared to offer him

$1 million in cash and a no-cut contract. Oh. That sounds pretty good, I would say. Yeah. The newspaper also reported that Payne would probably not return to school even if not drafted by a pro team. He said, I had to beg, and I have pride as a person. If I go back to UK Thursday, it would be the same thing.

The newspaper said Payne told how he contacted UK after graduation from Louisville Shawnee and disclosed that UK didn't recruit him until he first made overtures. He said Adolf Rupp had been fair with him, but his wife and baby almost starved. He liked playing on the road better than at home Had only one close friend on the basketball team and is aware of the fact that he is not yet in the Milwaukee Bucks star Clavle L. Cinder's class. He wasn't Abdul Jabbar quite yet. The newspaper also quoted pain is saying quote I believe I do have the potential to be a great player one of these days Maybe not now, but maybe in two years. Maybe right now I'm not really ready to go in the pros, but the pros think I'm ready.

It's an odd thing to say before a draft, isn't it? Not sure if I'm ready for this, but I mean, whoever wants to give me a million dollars is welcome to. Tom's father, after 21 years of distinguished military service to white America, had to undergo an operation which resulted in three-fourth of his stomach being removed. He couldn't work and there was no one to support the family of eight other children. Tom righteously accepted the duty of helping his father provide for the family. He decided to quit Kentucky under the hardship clause because of that.

So that's another thing. His dad is sick, can't provide. That's tough. So September 10th, they hold the hardship draft here. The underclassmen fulfilled the hardship criteria and were allowed to enter the draft early. What is the hardship criteria? I have little money and I'd like more. I mean, isn't that everybody's, what do you have to show? I would like more and I'm pretty good at this sport. That's what do you have to show? Like how poor do you, do your parents have to be a certain level of poor?

Yeah. Is there an inventory of toilet paper you're allowed to have? Do they come to your house and look through your shit like the tax man in the forties? You know what I mean? Like what happened? Are they counting your noodle packs? Do they come to your house and look through your shit like the tax man in the 40s? You know what I mean? Like what happened? Are they counting your noodle packs? You never know. This new rule came as a result of Spencer Heywood winning the court case against the NBA, which allowed him to play in the NBA before his college class graduates.

You know what I mean? Whenever they would challenge this shit in court, it doesn't hold up. None of this stuff. When the MLB players and then the football players challenge reserve clauses, they all broke down because it's the most crazy un-American, unconstitutional horse shit that you can do is tell a grownup how they can make money

or if they can make money. That's fucking crazy. Doing illegal activity, by the way, a very legal, playing basketball on no place in this country is illegal, but as far as I know. So they say the team selected in reverse order of their win-loss record of the previous season. The team that made a selection must withdraw

their equivalent selection in the 72 drafts. So this is like you're giving up a future pick for them. Oh, you're gonna take this in lieu of. Exactly, so you've gotta really want somebody for this. The teams were allowed to not exercise their rights on the hardship draft and thus retain their full selection for the 72 draft. 17 different players had initially entered the hardship draft, but only six would ultimately commit to entering the draft that year.

The first hardship draft saw North Carolina's Bill Chamberlain, Marquette's Jim Chones, Mel Davis from St. John's, DeKane's Mickey Davis, Villanova's Chris Ford, and the first potential high school prospect in Raymond Lewis from Verbum D. High School, future Hall of Famer Bob McAdoo from Vincennes Community College and another first potential high school prospecting Campy Russell from Pontiac Central High School, Princeton's Brian Taylor, future Hall of Famer Bill Walton from UCLA, Michigan's Henry Wilmore all initially entered this draft, a year's draft by the hardship draft but later declined entry for at least another year. They went back to school. The teams that were supposed to have the first three selections, the

Cleveland Cavaliers, Buffalo Braves and Portland Trail Blazers, declined to exercise their rights because they don't want to give up a draft pick next year. Nobody who was in this was worth it. Therefore the Cincinnati Royals had the first selection which they used to select Nate Williams from Utah State, Phil Chenier, a junior guard from the University of California, was selected by the Baltimore Bullets. He is the only player from the hardship draft who was selected to an ABA and all-NBA team

and an All-Star game. So with this hardship draft, just only a few teams are looking, huh? Yeah, because you have to give somebody up. So if there's nobody in the pool that you want, you just renounce your rights to be in the draft because you'll wait till next year. Sure. From the six players that were available for selection, only Ed Owens from Weber State University was not selected by any NBA team. The rivaling ABA would also hold their own hardship draft called the Special Circumstances Draft, which sounds like you got arrested for diddling

somebody. That sounds doesn't sound complimentary, does it? Enhanced charges. Yeah, it's what it seems like to me. It's very fucking creepy here. They're going to hold that draft and the ABA would only see three total selections from that event, including a repeat selection of Chenier. So yeah, Tom Payne has picked second overall in this draft of five people by the Atlanta Hawks. So there we go. How about it? And I believe, I don't know,

I think this is after Ted Turner bought them. I think it's right after he bought them because. What year? 71, 72, 71. This seems like, cause I know he was, I know he owned them in like 74 so yeah He probably owned them. This seems like Ted Turner would do this. He doesn't care if you graduated from college or all that shit You're a star. Come on. Let's go. I'll pay for bottom in 76 76. Okay, wait

No, no the following year they bought the hawks of 77 Okay, cuz I know he had the Braves by like 75 or 67. 76 he bought the Braves, 77 he bought them, and then in 1980 he launched CNN. Okay, there we go. What a fucking sick five years. He had a pretty crazy five years there. God damn.

And Septemberal, he said he bought the sports teams just to put programming on TBS, that's why he bought them. Unbelievable. It was just, he needed programming, and that was programming he could control because he paid his team a dollar for it or whatever. Yeah and he knew what their schedule was going to be. He can build everything around it. It's a two for one. I mean you're getting free programming and a team. So September 11th, 1971, the Hawks signed Payne less than three and a half hours after they selected him.

Ready to fucking go here, absolutely. He left Kentucky and here he is. Cleveland, I guess, yeah, he got passed up. The Hawks announced the signing of Payne and saying they're giving him a multi-year contract. He was accompanied by his wife Sue, his father, Tom Senior, the former Kentucky star, left the news conference for the Hawks rookie training camp in Jacksonville after that.

They said that they, you know, the haste with which the Hawks moved indicated they probably had been assured by the clubs that picked before them that Payne would not be drafted until Atlanta's turn came. There's only five of them. Who do you want? We're taking this guy. What are we gonna do? So before the draft, Bill Fitch, the coach of the Cavaliers,

who finished the worst record in the NBA last season, said, I'm not too excited about this draft. I don't like the odds of six players in this draft against 600 in next year's draft. So I'd rather have the choice of everybody than five fucking people. So Tom Payne said, I think the Atlanta Hawks made me a good offer.

He said, I bought my father a new car, gave my mother $10,000 and spent the rest. He said, I don't know where the money went. I didn't invest nothing. I spent it. I spent it about as fast as a man can spend that kind of money. Pissed it away. Oh my God. Pissed it. I spent it about as fast as a man can spend that kind of money. Oh my god.

Pissed it. Bought his dad a fucking car, gave his mom money and pissed the rest away. Did he think it was going to happen again? He had to, right? He had to think he'd be a great player, I guess, and keep making money. He's 20 years old, has a wife and young daughter, signed an $800,000 contract. And yeah, he said that when he showed up in Atlanta, it was crazy, like, these are grown men. And 70s, late 60s, 70s grown men. So these are, they're doing drugs and like,

it's a different environment. And he said- These are a party group. He said, things were going on that I'd never seen before when I got to Atlanta. Did you know that after World War II, the U.S. government quietly brought former Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology? Or that in the 1950s, the U.S. Army conducted a secret experiment by releasing bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public.

These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not. They're well-documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades. I'm Luke Lamanna, a Marine Corps recon vent, and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown. It's what led me to start my new podcast, Redacted Declassified Mysteries. In it, I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye-opening events, like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power tried to keep buried. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries with me, Luke Lamanna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad-free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.

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Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes.

Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story. One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror.

So when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, The Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker rated ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science and religion, and how even today we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night. You can binge all episodes of The Real History of Dracula exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus and the Wondrea. Apple Podcasts or Spotify. This team is 36 and 46, this Atlanta team. Nothing special here. They did have Walt Bellamy on the team. Interesting there. They had a couple guys like that, but nobody really that stands out.

October 13th, 1971. Here's an article. Pain L likes the Hawks is the headline. Yeah, they gave me 800 grand. I bet they must. Big Tom Payne laughingly dunks the ball during warm-up drills and chats amiably with his new Atlanta Hawks teammates. He says he likes professional basketball. I bet he does. He said, yeah, he did not return to school. He said, I have enjoyed it so far. He said, I have played just about every exhibition game and I think I have progressed very well. They've treated me very fair. The Hawks coach said that he's a rock kid, but he's improved a great deal just since joining a month ago. He says, we think he's two years away from making a real contribution. We're just going to let things happen. That's bad Payne says his wife sue and their 16 months old daughter crystal have moved into an Atlanta apartment and everybody likes their new life And everybody's just counting down a couple of years before he's a big contributor

That's a big star and he's gonna get another giant contract and everything's gonna be great Now if his wife sue has any problems with a certain specific area I have a solution for her because right under this in the newspaper, the sales Jimmy. Tell me about them. We're gonna get her some Feminique. Feminique. Feminique. It's feminine hygiene spray. Where does that go? Spray deodorant. This is deodorant for your pussy. Yeah. Regular, wildflower, or lemon. Regular pussy scent. Regular, parentheses, pussy.

And then wildflower, which if a girl takes her fucking pants off and wildflower smell hits you in the face, you know something's wrong down there. I can't get over regular. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. Not on santed regular old pussy smell It's regular old puss spray that is And then lemon What's the old stand-up show came out come smell my lemony fresh ass who was that? What's the old stand-up show? K-Mock, come smell my lemony fresh ass.

Who was that? I don't know. Schimmel? It might have been Schimmel. Why do they have fucking scented toilet paper? Yeah. Honey, come smell my lemony fresh ass. It's Robert Schimmel.

That's funny. Yeah, it is. Come smell my fucking wildflower box over here. Come on. Holy shit. January 31st 1972, there's an article in the Atlanta Journal, Phase 2 of NBA hardship draft in March. And they're talking about in order to be eligible for Phase 2, a college undergrad must have applied in writing to the NBA by December 1st after a thorough examination of his qualifications. Jesus. The NBA office guy here said this was voted on last June in our regular meetings.

It was decided then to have a hardship draft on a one-year trial basis with two phases. Phase one, you got the Hawks giving up shit. You got a couple other teams giving up shit. Two hours after an afternoon press conference Saturday by NBA commissioner Jack Dolph, during which he denied the allegations, a report came out of Louisville that the NBA would revise its regular college draft to include underclassmen so they don't have to be hardship cases. And they did. They just included everybody. The report, quoting informed legal sources, said the ABA would allow each of the team to pick one underclassman during the five rounds of his telephone draft on February 21st.

The only stipulation was that the undergrad must remain on the team's active roster for one full season. So you can't just cut him. You have to keep him. I guess is the deal. ABA Commissioner Jack Dolph refused to acknowledge any such action. I will not say anything more about the draft now because it would only give aid and comfort to our competitors.

Later, after hearing the rumor, he threatened to find any league source who revealed to the press how the draft was to be conducted. It's a shame the news leaked out. They can go find another commissioner if this keeps up. He's ready to quit because owners are leaking shit. They've Had enough. God, I love that. I love how honest they were back then. First reactions to the story were predictable. NBA Commissioner Walter Kennedy refused to comment.

I have no comment on the printed report primarily because I'm aware, because all I'm aware of is what I read in the papers. The Atlanta Hawks president, Bob Cousins, was more adamant. He said, I'm very disappointed they're taking that approach if the reports are true. I don't go along with this at all. I'm a little surprised as a matter of fact. I sort of felt the other league had learned something from all this stuff. I don't think that we should try to match their latest move.

I haven't heard anything from the league and I can't forecast their movements, but hopefully they don't follow along. And Adolf Rupp said, I'm very disappointed. I have fought to prevent interference of pro basketball for a long time. I fought to make myself a lot of money while these guys play for free for me for a long time now. And damn it, how dare you challenge that? I am the only person here allowed to make money.

Fuck these kids. These, wow, that is balls. He said, I naturally have to resent bitterly the intrusion of the pros into the amateur ranks. Last year, the Atlanta Hawks raided our team of Tom Payne and killed our chances of winning the SEC and NCAA. He isn't doing them any good and he certainly could have helped us. Jesus Christ.

Atlanta Hawks guy Bob Cousins said, I can fully understand why Coach Rupp is bitter, but there's no doubt Tom fits the hardship description. As for the fact that he's not any use to us, that's not true. He's not contributing now mainly because Walt Bellamy's playing like a superstar. We fully expected a period of adjustment for Tom Payne,

but we have such high hopes for him and expect him to develop even sooner than we anticipated. Maybe 18 months. We don't know. No shit. Jesus Christ. Maybe 18 months. They said, speaking of Rupp, the Baron claims he has four letters from Atlanta Hawks rookie

Tom Payne saying he's unhappy in our town because of his role as a benchman. This is from Atlanta. He doesn't like it. He said that, yeah, Rupp's trying to say he's miserable down there. This is what happens when you take these kids away from me. Jesus Christ, I finally owned a black child and they're going to take him from me. Finally, after all these years. That is April 12th, 1972, May 20th, 1972. Everything changes.

Oh? Oh yeah, it goes from, oh Tom, we wish he was here, he's mad up there, to Lexington Herald leader, Hawks Tom Payne arrested on rape and assault charges. Oh boy. That's not good. The club, the Atlanta says they're shocked by it. Done.

They had no idea, they didn't see it coming. Huh? What else could you say? I mean, he seemed a little rapey when we drafted it, but we just hope he escaped for like 10 years or so. And, you know, we had a few. Everybody said that kid just loves rape in his interview with us. We said, your hobbies. He said, I play a little guitar.

Um, I fish in the off season raping once in a while. I also sex against guitar. I fish in the off season, raping once in a while. I also. Sex against will. That's my favorite. Yeah, non-consensual sex. What else? Classic cars I like to tinker.

You know, just things. So detectives arrested, towering Atlanta Hawks Center, Tom Payne Jr. Now they put Jr. in it. This is the first newspaper article that juniors in that number one. It feels like it's for our benefit. Number one.

And also his father is really like, now he's junior first black player in Kentucky, Tom Payne arrested for rape, Tom Payne Jr. There's another one out there. Another words, check his dad out, make sure he's okay. Holy shit. Raping a 22-year-old woman and aggravated assault with intent to rape another young woman. Oh my God.

So two second women. Detectives stopped the car of the 7 foot 2, 240 pound pain in nearby East Point and arrested him in connection with the rape incident early Thursday. As a school teacher reported, she was forced out of her car and marched beside an apartment building in Northwest Atlanta where she was criminally assaulted. A school teacher, very nice. Payne, who was signed by the Hawks out of the University of Kentucky as a hardship case is under investigation for a series of rapes and attempted rapes in the metro

area of Atlanta Several Was he this is very easy the guy raped you was he the tallest guy you've ever seen in person No, okay. Well, it's somebody else then Like we know if it's him or not Is he literally the tallest human being in the state of Georgia or not? like that is Is he literally the tallest human being in the state of Georgia or not? like that is

Man, what a bad choice of like career path for him honest to Christ Basketball great for a real tall guy rape awful. Just the word at all. Yeah pain. Oh my god Atlanta Hawks business manager Irv Jack Irv Gack Irv Gack is his name G a C K Irv Jack Irv Gack. Irv Gack is his name. G.A.C.K. It's Gack. Irv is a disgusting name enough. Both of them. Irv Gack sounds like a hot. I got an Irv Gack in my throat. And Payne called the hawks office after the arrest. Gack said he had sent a team lawyer to the Atlanta police station where Payne was being held. Detective P.E. Beresford said the woman

told him she parked her car in the parking lot near her apartment home and a black male opened her car door, put a dish towel over her face, that's his calling card by the way, and said he was going to kill her if she made an outcry. She said he forced her to go beside a nearby building where he raped her on a walkway. The victim said she then broke away from the man and ran to a nearby building for help, the cop said. The second warrant, charging Payne with aggravated assault with intent to rape, resulted from an airline stewardess' complaint that a black male followed her to her home in southwest

Atlanta last April. Was that, yeah, April 16th, sorry, couldn't read that, and attempted to force his way into her car. She said that, uh, she locked her car door and began blowing the car horn and causing the person to flee. Brilliant. Not bad. Compton said that at the time the young woman managed to obtain the license plate number

of the man who fled the scene. He's a terrible, he's bad at this. You don't want to, yeah, you run away to your car. You don't let to... Yeah, you run away to your car. You don't let them see it. No. And also, you're the tallest rapist who's ever existed, you fucking dummy. Again, all these descriptions. Yeah, I haven't heard of a single rapist taller than you.

No. Out of all these descriptions, I really want them all to say, this insanely tall guy came up. Because that should be all... Holy fuck, was he tall. Oh my god. Stupidly tall man. Crazy. That should be all the way. Holy fuck was he tall. Oh my god. Stupidly tall man. Crazy.

Like twice my size. Compton added that Payne's fingerprints were found inside the teacher's car as well. Yeah. They said, we're completely shocked by the charges leveled against Tom Payne, the hawk said in a prepared statement read by Gack. You're sending Gack out there to read the shit that's sensitive? No. Since we have not had an opportunity to investigate this matter or get any definite information, we

have no other statement to make at this time. Hair, silver, we're out of here. Peace. So here are the details here. This is Myra Thompson is her name. This was on September 4th, 1971 is when this happened. She complained to Louisville police that she'd been raped by a tall black man about 20 years old and was given a physical examination by a Louisville general hospital. The examining physician found no evidence of male sperm in the vagina nor of her assailant skin beneath her nails, although she claimed to have scratched him in the face during the attack, nor could they locate any foreign pubic hair on her person."

This is from the court documents, by the way. Thompson could not identify pain from a series of mug shots the morning following the rape. Any of these guys, seven foot fucking five? That's my question. I don't need the mug shots. Just give me the list of the tallest people you have. Don't show me a face. I'll let you know. Yeah. Show me measurements. Height, weight. I'll tell you.

Just get only mug shots of people over seven feet tall. Let's just say, just make it like that. Yeah. So she did not identify him and was able later to make an identification only after seeing Payne's picture in the sports section of the newspaper Oh, wow, she identified that mugshot and after seeing basketball team photographs in which Payne was the tallest person And in the center of the photographs then she recognized him the Thompson rape incident also contained a count for Detaining Katherine M. Craven against her will with intent to have carnal knowledge. That happened on September 9th. So five days later after raping this

woman he went and attacked the other woman who blew the horn and he ran away and got in his car and she got his license plate number. Then the next day, September 10th, 1971, Dolores Duggan's horn is her name. She reported to the Louisville Police Department that she had been detained by a very tall, athletic black male. She'll later testify that she had a conversation with her assailant in a brightly lit area beside her car. She had a second conversation with him when he came to her apartment door. After he grabbed her by the arm, she screamed and he ran. When they investigated the incident, they showed Ms. Horne a single newspaper photograph,

which showed Tom Paine with his professional basketball agent. They said, is it this guy? So police indicated they had a suspect in the case by telling her they had cases with the same similarity. And this picture is a suspect in these cases also was it him which is you can't do that that is not okay to do that to question people this guy's a rapist was it him yeah here's the guy that does that kind of thing automatically makes people think it's more likely to be him so he she identified him but not positively I feel like you'd be able to positively identify him. Right. I'm not positive. I don't know, though. It's like a year. I don't know. I

don't know. It's tough. It's tough to say she requested the opportunity to see him in person. That's if it's a newspaper. Yeah, it's grainy. It's black and white. Who knows if you're requesting to see him in person and this picture isn't enough, then I don't think you're gonna do it. No, I don't think, yeah, but the police did not arrange a lineup for some reason. They probably couldn't find more seven feet tall people, maybe that's what it was. So May 25th, 1972, more charges filed against him, arraignment set for him, indicted on rape and detaining of a female, Jesus Christ, against her will with intent to have carnal knowledge.

What? Intent to have knowledge of her carnal. Wow. Yikes, I don't like that. So he's bound over without bond to the grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia on another charge of rape, several of which is under investigation there. At a three-hour hearing at the municipal court in Atlanta, a 22-year-old school teacher

testified that she had been raped outside her apartment. She said she got a glimpse of the man as he jumped into her car and held a towel over her face. She said he was black and had a clean cut face. She said that he pulled her onto the back seat, then forced her in the darkness and assaulted her. Now Payne's lawyer asked how the woman could have failed to notice that he was seven feet two.

You never mentioned that. And also how he was able to move around her Camaro so easily at that side Oh, yeah, that's not easy at all. No, but I mean if you're really wanting rape, I guess you can You can slide in on everything. It's how bad do you want it? You know, yeah, so they tried to Discredit fingerprint evidence. That's interesting. I don't know how you do that But identification officers testimony indicated that the prints were found on her window that matched Payne's and was ordered. That's how he was held over. At the hearing, another charge of aggravated assault with intent to rape was dismissed after a detective said the victim in the case was

in Germany and would be unable to appear. A warrant was taken against Payne for alleged rape in a nearby Cobb County place in March. The Cobb County Sheriff's Office said the alleged victim selected Payne from a lineup and a hold order was placed on Payne who was then being held in Fulton County. So multiple jurisdictions, multiple states. This is fucked. He is in a world of trouble. Multiple rapes. Multiple rapes.

Multiple rapes in multiple states. God damn. He is. I got rapes. I was gonna say, he invented hoes in different area codes. He did it a different way. And someone said, ooh, that sounds gross. I'm gonna make it a little,

how about hoes in area codes, right? We're not raping these women. What if they were willing? Yeah, I don't wanna rape anybody, right? This song is, let's make it. Nate Dogg's just a much better guy. What if they were willing? Yeah, I don't want to rape anybody, right? This song is... Nate Dogg's just a much better guy. Let's make it better, yeah, this is terrible. Right under that though, if you're grossed out, go ahead and take a sip of this shit and you won't be anymore.

Oh boy. Heaven Hill Whiskey, bourbon. One taste is worth a thousand words, it says, and it says, enjoy the gentle bourbon from Kentucky. And it looks terrible, rot gut shit, basically, shit whiskey. Now, the other March 72 rape here, that is between two and three a.m. on Sunday morning, March 26th, 1972, the victim left her job, drove alone to her home in Cobb County, and at some point along

the way she noticed a car was following her, but she dismissed the fact thinking it might have been a neighbor. So the car followed her all the way home. It was a foggy night. There was no street lights in her neighborhood. There was a yellow light burning over her carport and one burning inside of her house. They said at her home before she emerged from her car, she saw a black man looking in her car window.

He then opened the door, grabbed her, threw a coat over her head. Oh boy. Don't look at how tall I am, is essentially what he's saying. The victim was then, or don't watch the fucking Hawks game on TV. You can't, I mean, what are you thinking, bro?

You're in public all the fucking time. This is insane. mean, what are you thinking bro? You're in public all the fucking time. This is insane Anyway, what are you thinking raping? That's the main thing but obviously beyond that is I mean the way you're going about it's also insane So the victim was then forced into the backyard and raped She was then pushed around her house The assailant staying behind her the whole time to another corner of the house where the second offense took place Oh dear God. He took her in the house She was then pushed toward his car the engine of which she could hear running, but she screwed he was gonna take her Yeah, he was gonna take her not staying here. We're going off-site

He raped her twice and then he said I'm you're getting in my car coming with me. She was not gonna live I don't think it and if she she was, I mean, it was going to still be ugly. It was going to be horrible. That is horrific. So she ran away. She sought refuge at a neighbor's home and the police were called. So the details of her identification of her assailant will be more thoroughly discussed below in these court documents. It says here, basically she said it was a tall black man of medium build. At this time, this is before the arrests happened at all, there was no reason to suspect Payne, a noted basketball player, and the large group of photos which the police asked her to review did not include Payne. She did not identify anybody. They didn't know to include him. They had no idea. Some days later on

April 16th, 1972, another woman reported to police that she had been accosted by a tall black man under very similar circumstances in the early morning hours and that she foiled his attack and chased him back to the car in which he had followed her home and noted his license plate number. Wow. So if you fight back, he'll run away. And not even fight, not even like stop you from chasing him. Yeah, he will chase, you can chase him and he'll run. You're welcome to follow me. That is wild.

Take any information you need. The license plate number was for a car registered to Tom Payne, that's how they found him initially. Subsequently, in investigating the crime and other rapes and assaults in the general area, police showed everybody, all the other victims, either live or photographic lineups, or both, in which Payne was present. So they said that this woman identified Payne as very likely her attacker each time his or her photo was present in the group

She viewed he has she always picked him out other women also identified pain as having similarly accosted them So okay, he's a mess now She can she ID him the record shows that the police utilized for pretrial Identification procedures and attempting to identify the rapist At some point between March 31st and April 16th, the victim was shown photographs of between 250 and 300 black males. Jesus. That's a fuckload of pictures, man. How can you definitively, how can you choose?

How the fuck can you choose? Especially when A, memories are terrible, especially when it comes to faces of strangers. And as the police have noted in their thing, the worst, the worst identifications are interracial. Interracial. Yeah. They said that they're black people can't tell white people, white people can't tell black people. Nobody can tell Asians and Asians can't tell anybody else. That's true. That's it are the worst at identifying people and people are the worst at identifying Asians. But Asians can identify Asians like that. No problem. No problem.

Snap. I don't know how. Absolutely. That was... Is that... Is that bad? Let's go further. Why don't you know how, Jimmy? I don't... I don't know. Because? There you go. You found it.

I don't understand why. You know why. Because you can't. Exactly. That's the difference. Yeah, because I'm bad at it. That's why. Yeah, we're bad at it.

Exactly. Because I can't. He got so, if you could have seen his whole head get red. And I said, let's go one step further. He's like, oh shit. Let's not go any further. I did just say that. Let's just back off. What about these rapes now?

Let's talk about something. I'm told there's a lot of rapes about something less uncomfortable, like multiple rapes maybe? Oh god. So yeah, 250 and 300. On April 20th, following the April 16th identification of Payne as the owner of the automobile in which a tall black man followed another white woman and accosted her. She was shown a display of photographs of seven black males. After approximately 60 seconds, she picked up numbers three and seven, put three down and said that seven resembled him a bit.

Seven is Payne. More than three? Yeah. More than three, yeah. She said this is the winner of the group, resembled him a bit. That's not, it's definitely him. No. On May 22nd, the Atlanta police conducted a lineup in which pain Participated upon the recommendation of his counsel who was president the lineup a method was employed to disguise

Payne's height of seven feet two inches. Oh, they made everybody look the same height Okay, I don't know if they had them all get down on their knees and or maybe just their heads Just a nipples up. That's it. All the men participating eight black men were seated behind a table with a blanket covering the front of the table to hide their legs. He'd still be a foot taller than everybody else. No shit.

His head is still sitting. If we sit next to each other my head's higher than you. It's just the way it goes. It's just the way it goes. Interesting. Oh, that's right. All save pain were raised by sitting them on telephone books. So they sat they boosted them. They booster seated these guys. That's hilarious. Jesus. Because pretty much everybody in there is like, you know, marginally on the, on the, unless they're

cops, they're on the, on the periphery of crime. The people they drag in there for these things and give $20 to, to put all these criminals. Come on guys, gonna put you in little booster seats now. So that pain in one other man appeared to be the two shortest of the group, although the head heights were approximately the same. The victim and numerous other women who had been recently subjected to rapes and attempted rapes viewed the lineup. Imagine this, a fucking... A big line of ladies coming in.

Is this guy rape you? That guy rape you? The victim, after looking through the viewing window for one or two minutes, said two of them look like him. The first one and the second one. Payne was the second man. On October 7th, the victim was shown a photographic display of eight black men, including previously unused photographs of Payne. A front view and a profile view of each man were shown. The detective in charge testified that this test was made to see if the victim was still able to identify the rapist even seven months after the attack. By insert in the photograph or by

placard around the subject's neck, each full-face photograph bore a sign at the bottom. For six men, including Payne, the man's height and weight appeared in a small script at the bottom of the sign. Two of the men were shown standing before a line chart which presumably showed height. The signs of two of the men were labeled Identification Bureau, Cobb County, Georgia, the other six including Payne bore an Atlanta label. She positively identified Payne after viewing the 16 photographs for about 60 to 90 seconds. They're saying they had his height and weight listed on there, so all that lineup of phone

books and all that's out the window completely because she can read 7 foot 2. Not good. And no. So June 7th, 1972. It's bad because he did all this shit, but the ways they're going about trying to catch him are making it so legally spurious here. So June 7th, 1972 here here this is Atlanta Constitution. He's indicted in more rapes.

No dates been set for his trial. He's got all sorts of, there's all sorts of rapes going on here. Anyway, that year in basketball, he played in one game, played five minutes. Oh no, that's the playoffs. Regular season, he played 29 games, 7.8 minutes a game, so barely playing.

That's just garbage time at the end yeah get him out there 4.1 points 2.4 rebounds and probably half a dozen rapes also at least one or two at least one he's got more rapes than points per game I think at this point so June 30th 1972 Hawks to assist Tom Payne they're gonna assist him in this. Oh boy. They're not going, hey, if he's not guilty, great. They're saying, we're gonna help our guy. So the general manager, Richie Guerin,

said that the team lawyers will aid the defense of Tom Paine. They're gonna use team lawyers for this. Holy shit, they said, Tom is still a member of the team and our attorneys will assist Senator Leroy Johnson in the trial. That's Payne's lawyer. Garen said the Hawks helped Payne obtain Johnson as his defense attorney.

So they're just helping him. They must really think he's going to be good here. Holy shit. Not bad at all. July 7th, 1972, motions heard to open DA files in Payne's case. Interesting. So they heard motions from the defense here seeking to reopen or seeking to open district attorney's files for the case. Because apparently there's closed shit, there's still shit that hasn't been disclosed yet to the defense.

Yeah. Yeah. Saying we get this. So they're seeking evidence held by the DA's office in which they believe may shed a favorable light on the case for Payne. The district attorney says, it's my contention there's nothing in that file that meets favorable criteria. Nothing exculpatory in there for you. Yeah, yeah. It's all rape. It's all rape.

It's more rape. There's about five more rapes in there if you really want me to open it. There's a lot more. Don't go too deep. Don't open Pandora's Rape Box. You don't want that. Attorneys for Payne, who is not in court for the hearing, told the judge, we contend the

district attorney cannot determine what is favorable because he does not know what the defense is. Yeah, how the fuck would he? Yeah. That's a thing. July 14th, 1972, Payne indicted on two more assault counts here. Jesus Christ, charged with alleged attempted assaults on a 25-year-old Decatur woman on April 16th and a 33-year-old DeKalb woman on May 17th. The indictment was reported out of the June

term of the DeKalb County grand jury. He was indicted on June 6th for three counts of rape and four counts of aggravated assault in Fulton County. He also indicted on June 6th for three counts of rape and four counts of aggravated assault in Fulton County. He also faces a rape charge in Kentucky. So that's like so many rapes so far. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Last month they said that they're gonna, that they're still gonna help him. Now, this makes me want to buy some new stuff, Jimmy. Let's buy some new clothes. What do you say? We're gonna go to court, we're gonna need court clothes. How about a men's one piece double duty stretcher thing here? What do you say we buy the, it's a fucking, basically a wrestling singlet? Yeah, it's a singlet.

A ladies one piece swimsuit for men? You call that a stretcher? And I'm calling it that. I don't know. This is a body suit. And they try to make them look super manly they give us a big mustache and like a tough guy looks like a marlboro man. The tank top version is $3.99 the t-shirt version is $4.99 and it says great fit trim look machine washable it's the new action underwear, action underwear. That's really outerwear.

Please don't wear that out. No, don't. The one piece bodysuit that's more than just underwear. Just pull on a pair of slacks or shorts and you have a shirt that stays put because it's connected under your taint. Yeah, because it can't go anywhere. It can't go, you know, like a child's onesie. You know how that works.

This is why ladies run them. It can't go anywhere. It can't go, you know, like a child's onesie, you know that works This is why ladies run them. Yeah looks neat and trim no matter what action you put it through what action you put it through Jesus lightweight and comfortable and 100% nylon that stretches and moves right with you machine washable shoes from tank top or t-shirt models with snap crotch Like a baby. It's like a. Or like a lady. Well, I figured the ladies ones, they put on, they step into them and put them on and pull them up.

There's no snap crotches on a lot of those. I've only seen snap crotch. What? Yeah. Well, how old are these ladies you're dealing with? Cause I've never seen a snap crotch on anybody. 30 to 40. Older than eight months old.

No, 30 and 40-year-old ladies are wearing snap crotch. Yeah, these body suits. No, but these are like Spanx, though. They don't have snap crotches. They step into them and pull them up like a bathing suit. These are snap crotches. I don't know what brand. That's not the normal, I don't think, the snap crotch.

I probably shouldn't know that, but I do know them. I've seen a lot of them. Because everything I see, like ads for shit and stuff, is all... It's all step into it, huh? One piece. There's no Snapcrotch. It's like a swimsuit? You don't want to feel like a baby with a Snapcrotch onesie. The thing about a Snapcrotch is that that's how you pee. Well, I realize that.

Otherwise, they gotta take the whole thing off in public. You gotta pull it down? Yeah, I don't understand how they pee gotta take the whole thing off in public. You gotta pull it down? That's, yeah, I don't understand how they pee in half-fucking the outfits when they wear. I don't even think about that. Because I'll see outfits like, how do you pee in that? How do you do it?

They fucking figure it out, so it must not matter to them. But the snaf crotch is, that's what it's for, so they can pee. I hope you feel like an infant when you're wearing that, people, because that's what it's for, so that they can pee. I hope you feel like an infant when you're wearing that. That's why that's there too, so you can change their pee pee diaper. Well they wear them with jeans or like a skirt or some shit, so they just drop the skirt or pull the skirt up, drop the jeans, whatever way they do it. And the snap is just a way so they can pee. You move and stretch out here pop up up people

In shirt pulling up that doesn't see Wow amazing certainly happens Snap crotch and red white and blue green or beige well for dudes though, too There's I mean with for ladies a snap crutch There's nothing there to like get right to get in the way like with a dude snap crutch Dude, you get a boner and that thing's coming open. Oh, it's popping. Absolutely You're here. There's no way that stays together. Fuck. No. Hell. No, that's not staying together. So August 4th 1972

Payne's plea is innocent here from the Columbus Ledger. An attorney for Tom Payne has entered innocent pleas to two charges of aggravated assault against two women. Those are the new charges. State Senator Leroy Johnson, representing Payne, said Thursday the charges by two DeKalb County women represent a series of allegations against Payne in which he intends to prove false. Yeah.

False. I don't wear a snap crotch. No, absolutely not. I couldn't be raping. of allegations against Payne in which he intends to prove false. Yeah. False! I don't wear a snap crotch. No, absolutely not. I couldn't be raping. Those are rape pants, that's what that is. You can, right into rape. That's what they're for.

I mean that's a fucking- The man's wearing those, run! It's a breakaway. Breakaway rape pants is what you have on. Those are crazy. You see snaps, he has got some plans for you. It's a bad man, yeah. September 22nd, 1972, Tom Payne's wife attacks a witness.

This is amazing. The rape trial of Atlanta Hawks Basketball Center was interrupted Thursday when Payne's wife attacked a witness according to court reporter Randy Shellnut is his name. Imagine having anybody go to bat for you like that. The witness, an alleged rape victim. This isn't like some other witness. His wife attacked a fucking rape victim.

A rape victim that he raped. That is unbelievable. She attacked her after the witness had left the witness stand when Payne's wife shouted, she's lying, she knows she's lying and attacked her. Oh my. Mrs. Payne, a spectator, struck the witness on the head with her purse. God damn. Holy. According to testimony in a brief contempt of court hearing a few minutes later. Yeah, you're going to get contempt for that. Imagine seeing that shit. Holy shit.

Yeah, the jury saw that. There's no way to put that out of your mind. The incident came shortly after Fulton County Superior Court Judge Sam Phillips McKenzie had called a 10-minute recess in the trial, which Payne is charged with three alleged rapes. McKenzie, who'd left the room, said he would consider whether to hold Mrs. Payne in contempt. If you don't get held in contempt for that, what is it? What is there?

Yeah. Attacking a rape witness with a purse? That's definitely contempt, I think, here. Wow. Holy shit. Mrs. Payne and the witness who appeared uninjured remained as the trial was resumed. They let her stay in the courtroom after that. Oh boy. What? The woman, a school teacher during the day and a barmaid at night said pain looks an awful lot like the assailant, but could she could not be certain. Another woman

testified earlier she was confronted by an intruder at her home in April. She judged the man to be tall, although she could not identify him. Unbelievable. Okay, right under that there's an ad for, I don't know what this is for, because this is the entire ad. There's no explanation. What is that white trash for? Poor white trash, see how they live, dot dot dot. Don't come around here.

And it's like blinds, like it's a little pull tab thing on the bottom of blinds, like you're going to pull up the curtain and see how they live. But there's no explanation. There's nothing else. It's a movie, a play, a TV show. It's just to drive by us, have a look, see. Just letting you know something fun to do this weekend. Poor white trash.

See how they live. Get out there. Get in the back roads this weekend. See how they, like a three white trash. See how they live. Get out there. Get in the back roads this weekend. See how they... Like a three blind mice. Seeing how they live. See how they live. Poor white trash.

White trash. See how... Finger in their sisters. See how they live. Drinking homemade booze. Da da da da da da da. Barbecuing the worst cuts. Barbecuing a chuck steak. Ba ba da ba da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da Please tender steak on the block. $1.99 a pound. Hey, it goes down with smooth with beer.

Cheap beer. That's us. See how we live. Oh my God. See how they live. September 29th, 1972. Here we go. Payne convicted of rape. Pete They got him.

Chris They got him convicted of rape and sentenced to, as we'll talk about here, the, what the sentence is, the nine-day trial in which Payne is accused of three charges of rape concluded Wednesday when a biracial jury of eight women and four men found him guilty on one charge and innocent of the other two. Okay. The judge, who presided over the case, called it one of the lightest sentences he'd ever seen in such a case because he could get 20 years to life. The death penalty had been waived by the prosecution on the first day of trial. He ends up, this is fucking crazy, you sir may fuck off, this is the jury doing

this by the way, two years in prison. But they had to consider whether or not to take the death penalty off the table, he got two years. Two years for rape. He's convicted. How many? One rape he's convicted of. Oh boy.

Because the other two they found him innocent of. But they found him guilty of a rape and said, I mean two years. Two years should be enough for 24 months. Wow. We don't want to have, you know, we don't want to ruin his basketball career. That is crazy. The judge, he was judged guilty by a jury of the third charge of raping a young lady at about 2.30 AM. Under a new Georgia law, the judge instructed the jury on the possible sentences. After deliberation, the jury recommended the two-year sentence which the judge proclaimed. Wow. Wow.

The two years he'll have to serve will be counted from last May 19th when he was arrested, too. Oh, my. So not a lot. Time served. Wow. That is basically the Hawks general manager said Payne's contract terminated automatically when he was convicted. That's one of the clauses. So that's an automatic, a league rule apparently. Oh, we don't condone raping. He's not even saying that. He's saying that the fucking league doesn't condone raping. He's not even saying that, he's saying that the fucking league doesn't condone raping.

He's saying that. Oh, we don't have a choice, we have to not condone it. We have to, I mean that's a league rule, we didn't just cut him. I don't want to tell you, it's just in the contract. He said, he did not close the door on the possibility of paying, playing for the Hawks again someday. He just got convicted of rape. You just had to fire him. Rape of rape. You just had to fire him. Rape?

Yeah, you just had to fire him. Yeah, this isn't, I mean, you know, I get people, wow, I don't even know what to say about this. This is- They're gonna check the rehire box. Wow. Possible rehire. Keep an open mind. Unbelievable. I am of the opinion, wow, that a man's bridges should not be burned because of one mistake. When it's a following a woman home and raping her in her yard, that's a

big fucking mistake. That's a lot of mistaken. Yeah. I am not going to turn my back on Tom Payne. You don't have to go visit him in jail or do whatever, but the team doesn't have to hire him back. That's crazy. I think society today may be guilty of punishing forever a person for one mistake And I think this is wrong. I believe in giving someone a second chance if he's deserving Yikes Teammates available for comment generally refused to believe that pain was guilty Herm Gilliam said I am sad because Tommy is my friend and I hate to see his future thrown away.

The evidence doesn't seem concrete to me. Imagine a guy now saying that. They go, no comment. This guy said, I think these bitches are fucking lying. That's what he just said. Wow. Who among us? October 3rd, 1972.

Jurors wanted sentence to help Tom Payne. What does that mean? Listen to this. Most of the jurors who gave Payne a two-year sentence for the rape last week considered the sentence light, but long enough for Payne to get the psychiatric help which they felt he needed. A member of the jury said Monday. They say he just needs to talk to somebody for a while.

Just needs to chat. As if someone needs to tell to somebody for a while. Just needs a chat. As if someone needs to tell him, hey, don't do that crazy shit. Maybe, don't rape. Wow, he said, we felt that if the man could get psychiatric help inside of two years, mentally, he'll be able to cope with society and respect society as such.

Most of the jurors felt the sentence was a light sentence compared to the act of rape, he added. That's good. In an interview with the Constitution, the juror, who was asked not to be identified, discussed the jury's deliberations on Payne's seven-day trial. Jesus Christ. He was acquitted. Okay, the juror said Payne was convicted on the strengths of fingerprint evidence.

His prints were found on the victim's car. Kind of hard to hide that one. That's the only thing. Yeah. And back then, there really wasn't other physical evidence to have. Yeah. The woman's identification, she said he looked an awful lot like her assailant and picked him from a police lineup and a mode of operation that was similar to those and to alleged rapes in which she was acquitted. What? Well, how are you acquitted when you got an MO that's the same as those? Oh my god.

It's because there's no fingerprints at the other ones. Yeah, but they just said, wow, wow. So the jury thinks he raped three people. He at least raped one, and the other ones are real similar to the one that he did here. And the hawks are like, we the one that he did here and so then the Hawks are like we could bring him back Rehire and the jury's like we think he raped three people even though legally we all really only have the evidence to convict him for one But a little couple of therapy sessions. He should be okay. We'll figure it out. Wow, that is disturbing

Interesting his motive operation was going out late at night is disturbing. Interesting. His mode of operation was going out late at night and all was substantially the same as in the first two counts and also it was established in the attempted assault cases. Weight was given to the pattern of the way the attacks were made. That plus the fingerprints plus the identification plus the tag numbers, auto tag numbers identified in two of the rape attempts. How is that not enough?

If you know what his MO is and his fucking license plate was at two other rapes where the same fucking MO happened, he's a triple rapist, right? But they didn't see him there, evidently. Wow. Left no doubt in the jury's mind as to the guilt of the accused. Wow, I'm blown away. He added, in the beginning, there was a minority opinion of guilt in the first count and also on the second count.

But through discussions we didn't feel a conviction was in order because of the lack of evidence on the first and second counts. And the jury in good conscience didn't want to send a man to prison where he where there was any doubt as to innocence or guilt on the sentencing. He thought the jury gave weight to Payne's father's testimony that he was unable to work and Payne was supporting not only his own family but his father's. And quote, we considered that he was a first offender with the proper rehabilitation. He could be a useful citizen in society. Yeah. He said, though, you might say that there

were several on the jury who felt two years was a too light of a sentence and They favored anywhere from four to ten years three or four of the jurors wanted the minimum sentence of one year. He said, huh So by a meeting of the minds we arrived at two years I'm gonna say that's an overstatement meeting of the minds with this fucking group What kind of brain damaged fucking mesomorph dip shit did they fucking pull together for this goddamn jury? Wow, the jury credited assistant district attorney Tom Hayes with a beautiful prosecution.

That's a quote, by the way. He said that he could not think of one place where Hayes slipped up. We felt that Payne got an excellent defense, however the defense was limited in as much as his attorneys really couldn't offer any substantial defense. For example, they said it was impossible for him to get into a Camaro, yet he drove a Corvette. That, yeah, you can't say it's a Camaro is, a Corvette is lower to the ground than a Camaro, first of all. One thing about the Corvette, I will say, because I have a 71, is it's like a cockpit.

Once you sit in it, your legs go straight out. There's a lot of room in there. It's not terrible. And you pretty much take up the whole, your legs just go next to the motor, the whole front of the car. That's it. Yeah, that's the motors, the whole goddamn front of the car. So, I mean, he's also taller than me

Right. Yes, there is that too, but you can't say he can't fit in a Camaro when he drives a Corvette though That doesn't work tough His attorney Leroy Johnson Harry Bostic and Thelma Wyatt argued that he would have had great difficulty getting into the back seat of a Camaro Which the first rapes said said it happened there pain which the first rape said had happened there, Payne testified in an unsworn statement that the driver's seat of his own Corvette is positioned so far back that there's no room for a back seat.

There's no, What? What, hold on a minute. So he slides his front seat back? No, I think he's saying the car is made that way. Oh. So the seat goes back, so if I was gonna say, because there is no even,

There's, it's a, There's nothing. It's that little smuggler's pouch back there. There's a, yeah, but I mean that starts at like shoulder height back there. Our seats are against the back of the car. And I don't know of any four-seater vets that were ever made back then. No, no, I don't think there is one at all. No, that's what I mean. I'm not aware of it. I think that's just two-seaters.

If there is, if you got one, it's probably worth the lot because I've never heard shit about it. You did that. You cut it and lengthened it. Well, yeah, no shit. The defense attorneys also mentioned that he, meaning Thomas Payne, had a friend named Jesse Harris who drove his car, yet they never produced him in court. So he was trying to blame it on his friend. Jesse Harris? Poor Jesse. Jesse, then they didn't bring Jesse in.

As he noted that Payne's attorneys, in an attempt to explain how Payne's fingerprints got on the woman's car, suggested he might have been instructing pupils on basketball at the school where the victim taught. I may have touched the car if she hasn't washed it in a while. She hasn't washed it in a while. I might have just been teaching basketball at the school and then coincidentally a rapist touched the same areas. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while.

She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while.

She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while.

She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. She hasn't watched it in a while. He said, bringing this man named Harris was clever to a point, the jurors said, but if they had presented Mr. Harris, that would have carried more weight with the jury. As far as they knew, this guy doesn't exist. Never mind who got the card went to him. We don't even know that that's a real person. We don't even know who he is. Yeah.

He just says, Jason Harris. Oh, it's Jason Harris, everybody. Must have been him. Yeah. Holy shit. So this is fucking insane, dude, he is a mess right now. November 22nd, 1972, he's in prison. He's indicted for more rape.

Oh boy. In Marietta, Georgia, he's indicted Tuesday by the Cobb County grand jury on charges of rape and aggravated sodomy. Stepping it up a notch. Oh boy. Wow. Previously convicted, obviously, in Atlanta of assaulting a 42-year-old woman in the backyard of her home.

So it's that one, the backyard into the house, and then she ran away screaming, holy shit. He is so fucked. Here is an amazing article, March 3rd, 1973, from the Atlanta Voice. Is there a conspiracy against Thomas Payne? By what? By B. Norwood Cheney. He's being framed for how many murders?

Dude, I'm sorry. The people of Kentucky hate him. The jury gave, this is Atlanta, Atlanta Voice. Right, right? The people of Kentucky have come to Atlanta and framed him for so many murders and rapes. So many just because they didn to Atlanta and framed him for so many murders. So many just because they didn't like his basketball. This is by B. Norwood Chaney. Last week, Mr. Thomas Payne, senior father of Tom Payne, Atlanta Hawks basketball player convicted on a series of rape charges last fall, raised a question of conspiracy at a press conference

at the Wheat Street Baptist Church Education Building. Mr. Payne, along with Dr. Otis Smith, chairman of the Thomas Payne Jr. Defense and Survival Fund Committee. What? He's got a defense, he's got a fund for his defense. A survival fund. Yeah, and his prison shit that he needs in prison. Called the conference to make public their displeasures

over the way Senator Leroy Johnson, defense attorney for Tom, has been handling the case. Even though the jury said he basically did a magic trick for him. Two years. A letter made available to the press at the conference covering important unanswered questions and discrepancies in the previous cases tried in Fulton County, including negligence in representations, defense and application for bond, has been sent to Senator Johnson, or had been sent on January 11th, 1973. No reply to the letter has been received, according to Mr. Payne.

A request for bond was never submitted to a judge, as promised. A request for release after serving one-third of the sentence had not been submitted, and a request to resolve other pending changes in Fulton had not been pursued prior to arrangement in other counties. Tom Payne was taken to Cobb County for arraignment on February 13, 1973. According to Mr. Payne, Tom was without representation by his attorney, Mr. Johnson. His retrial hearings were scheduled for February 26, and still no preparations were made by the defense. Mr. Payne announced that he was calling for a meeting with the Atlanta Hawks, Leroy Johnson, Dr. Otis Smith, and other members of the Tom Payne Survival and Defense Committee.

Apparently the Hawks are involved in this. Wow. receives no satisfaction concerning from the Hawks concerning attorney Johnson. He has asked Reverend Hosea Williams, Reverend Joe Boone and others to help organize action against the Hawks to include picketing at the Omni every time the Hawks play until his son is released on bond. What? Everybody let that rapist out. What do you chant? Until they let him out, I will pick it.

One, two, three, four, let him rape some more. What the fuck? I don't know. I mean, he's not done opening up the door. This is crazy. How many times, and how many rapes do you stop? Jesus Christ. Two, four, six, eight, let Tom Paine out to rape. What do you stop? Jesus Christ two four six eight. Let's have pain out to rape What are you chanting? I don't know And then what I mean nowadays they would pick it if you were they're paying for his fucking lawyer That's what people would be picketing the fact that this team is paying for a rapist lawyer a convicted now rapist lawyer They're saying you got a protest saying

that he's not being handled. He's not even, he needs to be released. Right. Dr. Smith said at the press conference that he spoke as chairman of the Tom Paine Defense Committee, which is composed of Dr. Mac Jones, Mr. Walt Bellamy, that's a player. Yeah, yeah. Reverend Arthur Langford, yeah. J. Lowell Ware, George Williams Jr., Mrs. Alma Beynum, and Reverend W.J. Stafford. Dr. Smith revealed that the basis of Mr. and Mrs. Payne's apprehension that Tom may possibly have no representation

at the appeal hearing, as well as for the remaining cases pending against Tom, is a letter written to Tom Payne Jr. by Attorney Johnson on February 13th or February 10th, 1973, withdrawing from defending the pending cases against Tom. He's like, I'm happy with winning two out of three. You know, Dr. Smith said he sent a telegram to Leroy Johnson on February 15th, requesting a meeting with him to discuss plans for Tom's defense and survival. As of Friday, February 23rd, 1973, Dr. Smith said he had received no reply. The Atlanta Hawks, Dr. Smith announced, were also being held responsible since it's their understanding that Attorney Johnson was initially hired by the Atlanta Hawks. That's the thing, they're saying did the hawks say they're stopping to pay this guy? Is that why he withdrew? They're trying to get those people in there. A telegram was being sent to the Hawks Friday requesting a meeting with them. A newsman

asked about the sodomy accusation rumored against Tom last November. His father said, this has been proven to be untrue by the inmates involved and the rumor has been attributed to Senator Johnson. This isn't an outside sodomy, this is an inside, inside the park sodomy. Oh, inside the building. Inside jail. The calls coming from the prison, yeah. Yes, yeah.

Oh boy, he's raping in there too? Oh, he'll rape anywhere he likes to. Wherever his dick is, there will be rape apparently. Dr. Smith explained his interest in the case by saying that under no circumstances did Tom Payne Jr. belong behind bars. If he's guilty of all the charges he's been accused and convicted of, then he's sick and belongs in a hospital.

If he's innocent, he belongs out on the street. It is funny, Dr. Smith said, that these rumors against Tom seem to pop up every time something's being done by Tom's defense committee. Wow. Mr. Payne Sr. said he was convinced that there was a conspiracy against his son, but because of the impending retrial hearings he could not dispose of certain information at the time. I have it but I can't give it. In his letter to Senator Johnson on January 11th, 1973, he stated, and I have informed you that this was a massive and very cruel conspiracy against Tom Jr. simply because he refused

to permit himself to be exploited and elected to be a man and speak out instead of being a boy or an object. I also informed you that this conspiracy possibly originated in Lexington, Kentucky because of known facts that occurred immediately after his leaving the school and that should have been checked out from this angle. I gave you the facts to prove the above, however you refuse to pursue them from this angle. The barmaid that my son allegedly raped was from Lexington, Kentucky. She arrived here at approximately the same time my son signed the contract with the Hawks. The day after she was allegedly raped, made a trip to Lexington, Kentucky, returned here,

made another trip a day later to Louisville. Did she coordinate the charges brought against him in Louisville shortly after? Although being from Lexington, Kentucky, she claims to have attended a university in Texas. This was not checked out. Because nobody ever moved... Atlanta's the big city of the South. People moved there when they go to the big city. That's like, especially back in the day, like Nashville wasn't anything back then or any places like that. That was just fucking eight drunks beating each other with guitars. It was it was fucking big city. It was Atlanta. It was Miami and I guess Charleston. But that's Miami wasn't huge till the 80s.

Miami was still, you know, just old people sitting on the beach till the 80s. And that's supposed Charleston is the only other one. And that's still not a big city. So yeah, you know, they say the pretrial hearing for Tom Paine was not held on February 26th as scheduled the Tom Paine Defense Committee and other Community leaders have planned a picket of the Hawks game tonight at the Omni hilarious Fucking believable So Senator Johnson responds to pain conspiracy charges May 17th night there March 17th 1973 according to Senator Leroy Johnson, charges made

against him reported in the article last week entitled, Is There a Conspiracy Against Tom Payne, have misstated the facts relative to his law firm representing Mr. Tom Payne. He said, yeah, he demands equal time in the newspaper. This is his response. The Thomas Payne Jr. has been charged with the following counts of rape and aggravated assault with intent to rape and the following indictments have been returned against him. And then a list of indictments that are huge and long that I won't read. My law office was retained by the Atlanta Hawks to represent Tom Payne Jr. in Fulton County, Fulton Superior Court against charges of rape and aggravated assault with intent

to rape. We tried Tom Payne's case for 10 days on three charges of rape. Because of the matter and method and the way of which we defended Tom Payne Jr., the jury found him not guilty of two charges of rape. Because of the method and manner and the way in which we defended Tom Payne Jr., the jury gave him only two years after finding him guilty on the third charge of rape. A two-year sentence for a defendant found guilty of rape was the lightest sentence given in 40 years in the Superior Court of Fulton County, Georgia.

Forty years. To the minds of many, it was the first time in Georgia that a black man accused of raping a white woman and found guilty had only been given two years. Our defense of Tom Payne Jr. speaks for itself and in our opinion was the best possible defense that he could receive from any lawyer or any group of lawyers, black or white. Persons attending the trial who witnessed our performance will attest to this fact. We have been commended by lawyers considered to be the best criminal lawyers in the city of Atlanta for the way in which we handled the defense of Tom Payne Jr. Now, let me answer some of the

unfounded and irresponsible charges made against me and our law firm in an effort to smear our reputation. Okay. Let's do it, man. Number one, Mr. and Mrs. Tom Payne Sr. became dissatisfied with our law firm only after we refused to accept their version of and Mrs. Tom Payne, Sr. became dissatisfied with our law firm only after we refused to accept their version of a conspiracy against Tom Payne, Jr. because there was no facts to substantiate it. First, Mr. and Mrs. Payne, Sr. wanted our firm to investigate the University of Kentucky because they contended there was a conspiracy on the part of the university, which resulted in Tom Payne, what, going out in the middle of the night and resulted in Tom Payne what going out in

the middle of the night and attacking women with a dishcloth how the fuck do they make them do that being indicted for rape in counties referred to above they argued that the University of Kentucky did not want Tom Payne jr. to sign a contract to play professional ball with the Hawks and therefore conspired to have these things happen to Tom Jr. There were simply no facts to back this up. Charges of conspiracy or any other by the University of Kentucky. Number two, Mr. and Mrs. Payne's senior charge that it was a conspiracy by the Atlanta Hawks, which resulted in Tom Payne Jr.'s having been indicted on the charges referred to above,

and they wanted us to investigate the Hawks. Why would they do that? We'd like to have a bunch of money thrown in the garbage and get bad publicity at the same time. Is that possible? Can we get that? Why would they? And then we're gonna pay a bunch of money for a fucking legal defense too.

Well, how does this advantage them? We'd love to destroy our business model. Yeah, there were simply no facts upon which to base a charge of conspiracy against the Atlanta Hawks. The Atlanta Hawks invested over 800 grand in a contract spread over four or five years to be paid to Tom Payne Jr. They retained and paid our firm to represent him.

They had consented to let each one of their players testify on behalf of Tom Payne Jr. as character witnesses, which they did at trial. We could find no logical or rational justification for conspiracy charge against the Hawks. It makes the least sense of anything in the world that the Hawks would want this guy to be a rapist. It looks bad for them. It looks bad and they lose a shitload of money. The last thing they want is him to be a rapist, as a matter of fact.

Fuck, they're fingers crossed that he's not a rapist for these people. When we refused to accept these theories of conspiracy, they began to try to find fault in the method and way in which we defended Tom Payne Jr. Three, they said we did not request Bond for Tom Payne Jr. Under the law, if we had requested Bond and if Bond had been granted Tom Payne Jr. Under the law, if we had requested bond and if bond had been granted Tom Payne Jr. for Tom Payne Jr. he would still not have been able to get out of Fulton County Jail. Fulton County officials had a hold on him, a detainer on Tom Payne from Cobb County to Cobb County and Clayton County in Louisville, Kentucky. If we received a bond, he would have been held and then carried to Cobb, to Cobb, or Clayton counties or sent to Louisville.

We preferred trying Tom Payne Jr. first in Fulton County rather than Cobb, Clayton, or to Kalb because Fulton is more of an urban center and you're going to have a better chance. They say that we did not request probation after Tom Payne Jr. has served one-third of his two-year sentence. The rules of the pardon and parole board is that an automatic review is made of a case before that board and they have publicly stated that a person needs no lawyer before a pardon and parole board under their new rules and policies. That is to say the pardon and parole board will automatically consider parole of a defendant

after one-third of a sentence. Therefore no request was necessary and the one-third of a sentence would have been on or about March 1st. Notwithstanding this new policy, if we had not been released on February 10th, we would have made inquiries. Number five, Mr. and Mrs. Payne stated that they sent us a letter to which we did not answer. The truth of the matter is that on February 10th we answered Mr. Payne's letter at which time we gave him an official release to secure other lawyers for continuation of the defense of Tom Payne. We out. This meant that after the date we were no longer representing Mr. Tom Payne, we gave a release to them,

to his family, very reluctantly, but we had no choice since Mr. Payne had distributed the letter sent to us in January criticizing our defense of Tom Payne Jr. to community groups. So they were out once they started getting criticized. We granted the release only after Mr. Payne Jr. refused to talk to Attorney Harris Bostic, my law associate, when Mr. Bostic visited him on January 12th at the county jail. On February 12th, I accompanied Mr. Bostic to the county jail to visit Mr. Payne Jr., at which time he asked us for a release and stated his father was looking for other attorneys.

One of our major problems that we had with Mr. and Mrs. Payne Sr. was that they were constantly trying to tell us that this is a civil rights case. They constantly are trying to convince us that this is a case similar to Angela Davis' case, therefore not even close. She accused of rape? Lots of rape with a dish towel. They could create a Tom Payne Defense Fund and secure community support as was done in the Angela Davis case.

He thinks he's hurricane. He thinks he's fucking hurricane car. Yeah, he's being railroaded. Yeah. I have stated to them and I state again that this case is not a civil rights case and not a case anywhere similar to the Angela Davis case. Mr. and Mrs. Payne Sr. asked me if they could employ the services of attorney Howard Moore before we gave them a release and I told them by all means they could. They conferred with Mr. Moore about the theory of conspiracy, but attorney Moore did not take the case.

I regret very much suggestion that we started any rumor about Tom Payne Jr. We have confided in Tom Payne Jr. and his family information that has come to our attention and we do this in order to keep our client and his family abreast on any and all information that comes to us that may have any effect on his case. It is regrettable if they themselves tell others. I regret having to answer these charges in the press because we try our cases in the courts and not on the corner in the streets or in the press. These attacks on our firm cannot help Thomas Payne Jr.

We have certainly defended him well. It's my hope that his family will put the welfare of Tom Payne Jr. first and secure for him the legal representation for his other cases. I have only answered the charges that were raised in the article appearing in the Atlanta Voice on March 3rd, 73. Because of the confidential relationship

between attorney and client, I cannot go into any other facts of the case. I have only dealt with that information, which is public knowledge and can be secured as a matter of public record. Holy fucking shit. Now. It's a lot of words. What are they saying?

It's a lot of fucking words. What are you talking about? We didn't do shit. They're full of shit. There's no conspiracy We got him off on two of three rape charges, even though the jury Knew that he did all three. Yeah, they're very well heard him. Yeah, that's how good of a lawyer I am it's it's not our fault. Don't be mad at us If you go in with three rapes and come out with two years that fucking lawyer killed it Crushed it. You could not get a that fucking lawyer killed it crushed it you

could not get a better fucking lawyer than that that's inside a good work so I think we're gonna leave off right there because the next thing is May 26th 73 new accusations made against Johnson in pain case so they're going after the law about an extra that we'll talk about that next week definitely for sure so that is there. Okay, very good. So I hope you enjoyed that rehashing of Tom Payne. We have so much more to go.

He's still going to be a boxer at some point in his life in this episode. He's still going to be a professional boxer next week. So you have no idea where this case is going. He's going to fight refrigerator Perry. It is not just Tom sitting in jail and that's gonna be the rest of it, appeals. Not even fucking close. He has a whole other life he's gonna live in part two. We'll get to all of that and more next week though.

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shout out at the end of the show oh you bet right goddamn now Jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful wonderful wonderful fucking people who never carry around dish towels to commit unholy acts. Jimmy hit me with them right fucking now. This week's executive producers are Peyton Meadows, Franny and Oz, Gary Howard and Kyle Norwood. Thank all of you so much. And Fran's gonna come out to show next year also. Can't wait to see you Fran. Other producers this year are Janice Hill. This year, this day, today, this week, god damn it. Janice Hill, Cassie Walker, Samantha Stars, Jordan Allhands, Allhands, Alli Hands?

I don't know. Andrea Fair maybe? Stephanie Hurricane Hirsch, Crystal Castaneda, Jamie Lavec, Kate with no last name, Holly Cluff, Becky Cluff, oh what is that? Crusper? Crusper. Clusper? Janie Belknap, Sarah Ash,

Lindsay Banfield, Mandy Kay, Carrie Burgess, Noelle Sanburn, Danielle Shields, Jexka, Chef Andrew Southerns, Sarah Hawk, Michelle Abt, Abt, Joe Voorhees maybe, Joe with no last name, Torius with no last name. Savvy C. Kenny Custin. Megan with no last name. Tony Lynn.

Kurt Larson. Elizabeth Boucher. Jason Massersmith. Meddy B23. She is, she is definitely 23. Bea, Bea, B, maybe it's B. B-E-A with no last name. Danny with no last name.

Eddie with no last name. Don Glackin. Cole Claussen. Sean Lauer. Ian Jones. Danny with no last name. Danny with no last name. Eddie with no last name. Don Glacken, Cole Claussen, Sean Lauer, Ian Jones, Danny with no last name. 5477 my ass zero one. Jamie Mattoon, partial villain, Patricia Cagnellosi, uh Kangalosi, Rachel Niss sin Julie Julian Guylian. It's got to be Julian right? G you why L I a ne guy Guylian? What I'll yell you Ghislaine direct. Yeah, maybe it's I don't know man Epstein's friend her name. Yeah, Ghislaine. Yeah Maxwell Stanley Dally, I don't I don't want to call you a that's the hour We're not calling you a

Kid traffic. It's probably going right Gillian sure you're my be Jillian. All right, Kate Williams Traffic jammer Brody would know last name Heather chalk mama bomb Baum Shane Phillips Todd Watson Kristen cyborg tab at theimer, Anna Burgesson, nope it's just Burgess, Lisette LeBlanc, Lauren Richter, Catherine Spears, Slashy Ashy, Christian LeBron, Chris Joner, Tina Amaya, Chris Benoit, probably not, kinda fucked up, a little bit. Maggie with no last name last name TJ Tabitha

McMinniman Carrie Compton clockwork clockwork Cleo a day a dialy at Italy Italy I deli Velez Jenny from Vermont David Peacock Nicole would know last name Christy Perez Joshua ranting in Reina Reina Chalice Chalice, M. Jones Arama, Brian Ross, Caleb Woodnolaus, same Tracy Frazier, Chelsea McGowan, Anthony Nielsen, Tiki Girl, Jeremy Running, Carmela Freeze, Dylan Dompierre, Kaylee Hansen, Heather Gray, Leland Lemon, Alex Mantafuel, Zachary lemon Alex man to fuel man to man man to man to fool. And Zachary Eskelson, Emily Iva Eva, Emily Eva Schaefer, Oliver zero nine zero seven. Brandy Finley. Yeah, Oliver.

I appreciate you. You got a really weird last name. Megan Ruth, Charlie, Charlie Hill, JP Campbell, Amir, Koopa, coffee, cup of coffee, Koopa coffee, cup of Amir, cup of coffee. Maggie would know last name. Is ale, is he, is ale, I sail? What is that? Sandoval is ale? Is that a name? I've said it three times. I've changed nothing about it. Matt G Cody Kielbasa Angela Sherman mark Favaza Jesus fuck Marilyn. Nope, man Meredith this week Meredith De Smet Jasmine Hall lit Jessica Lida Joy Howard Gina heart shorn Caleb Nelson Andy Patterson Andy Blazak

Travis Frye Melissa Johnson Johnson, Becky Holder, Jen Easterby, Lauren Laurel, Laurel, thanks Jill for the birthday present. I don't know if Laurel's saying that to Jill or Jill's saying it to Laurel. Whatever. Thanks Jill. Rebel, Rebell, Rebell Marie, it's gotta be Rebel but you don't spell Rebel with two L's and two E's. What the fuck's going on? Mike Swope? Mike Swope. Deidre Heritage. Girth Johnson? Probably not. JP?

Kip? Would know last name. Kip and JP. Neither of them have a last name. Stephen Braley? Gwendolyn B. Trevor Siprel? Siprelli, John Kelly, Chandler Fisher. Fuck you. Ree Jones Hanson, R. Larson, Brenda Torres, Amber Woodward. I feel like that's just the old. Now what? Yeah, and I'm not fake.

I got three kids. Nanette Gold, Galen Martin, Angela Crandall, Kaylee Buissanaut, Buissanaut, and martin angela crandal uh kaylee was a boy senal boys and oat boy by bui son al shit zach mayo oh clarissa schultz and all of our patrons you guys are the best yeah thank you everybody so much unbelievable wonderful wonderful bastards we love the shit out of you thanks for hanging with us all the time this is is my real hair. Take that everybody who doesn't have their real hair. Enjoy. So for the rest of you though, also follow us on social media. Head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. All the drop down menus have all that shit on there.

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