Crime in Sports - His Own Worst Enemy Wayne Simmons Part 1

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

This week, we we start a two parter on a man who came from absolutely nothing, watching his mother cry, because she couldn't provide. This gives him the motivation to work hard enough to be drafted in the NFL, by the Green Bay Packers, but also the motivation to apparently be a huge, violent jerk. He attacks exchange student pizza delivery men, bouncers, people trying to stop him from fighting, and a college girl! And thats's only the beginning. Will he get it together, ort go further downhill?   Have a want to make your mother stop crying, have no idea who any of your teammates are, and beat up peop,e who are much smaller than you with Wayne Simmons - Part 1!   Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!!   Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman   Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS, STM & YSO merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com   Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS, STM & YSO!!   Contact us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/crimeinsports [e-mail]

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to crime and sports. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petro Gallow. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of Crime and Sports.

This one has potential to be a classic right here, guys. Telling you, this is a crazy story. I don't know how, this is one of those where you'd figure you'd have heard all of this before. Like, oh man, this must be a big famous story. And it's not. Like, it's not even, it's wild. How crazy this is. We'll get into all of that and more.

Remember like a Lewis Billups where you're like, I don't know anything about that? Then you hear a story. You're like, holy shit, he did a lot of bad stuff. The hell's going on here. It's one of those kind of deals. We'll head into all of that. Before we do, though, head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Get your merchandise.

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Now, that said, let's get into this right away because we have so much here. I don't know if we can get through this in one part. Oh, my God. I don't know if we can get through it in one part. It's a guy you've never heard of, and we don't know if we can get through it in one part, which is insane. Here we go. Wayne Simmons. You know who Wayne Simmons is?

No. No. And he played in the NFL. Oh. For years? For six years during the 90s when you were paying attention as much as you ever have. Play for the Jets or something? Nope.

Nope. Teams you would have watched, especially one team that you definitely would have watched because they play the Broncos twice a year. Oh, really? Definitely know who he is. We'll get into it here. Wayne General Simmons is his name. Mineral name General? His mineral name is General, yes.

I studied mineral. His mineral name. Yeah. Yes, Wayne General Simmons. Fascinating. Fascinating. And his nickname, Big Money. Sure.

Big money, everybody calls. So he's a lineman? Big money, we've never heard of him before. He's a linebacker, actually. Born December 15th, 1969. He is from South Carolina. Hilton Head South Carolina, to be exact. Beautiful.

Nice area there, which lends to what we were talking about before the game. I think they're going to let some guy from South Carolina control. the outcome of the game for billionaires? Fuck no. Not happening. Not happening. So he played quite a bit and didn't quite live up to his hype. We'll talk in all about this here.

His grandmother, and we'll talk about his whole family here. His mother's name is Dorothy. And his father is a military guy who left soon after he was born. And then he tried to him back. Named him general and dipped out? Dipped out. General. Nice.

At least he had, you know, like, he had some goal set out for his son. He didn't name him like corporal, which was good. Could have went lower on it. I've met a guy whose real name is coach. His real name is coach? Real name was coach. Wow. Imagine looking at a baby and going coach.

Hey, coach. Yeah. No. Hate it. Hate that so much. Imagine looking at a baby and saying Wayne. Yeah. That would be just.

Very common. A lot of people have done that. Hey, he looks like a Wayne to me. Like, what? A shitload. Wayne? A shitload more times than coach. Than coach, for sure.

And even that's weird. That's what I mean. We let that shit go. We don't even think about that. That's what's crazy. We've accepted it. He also grows up around his grandmother, Mamie, a lot. And he has siblings, Leon and Deborah, as well here.

Wow, this is. does not sound like a family from Hiltonhead. Hilton Head's like the Hamptons of the South. Was it always? As far as I know, that's a great point too. I don't know how long back. As far as I've ever known it, it has. People probably still didn't wear shoes down there in 1969, never mind as fucking.

It's half the state still fucking doesn't wear shoes. Watch fucking on patrol where they have multiple departments in South Carolina. That place is a fucking disaster. There's like two nice towns and that rest of that state is a fucking cesspool. Even Hilton Head, it seems like people work their asses off and they're like, I just don't want to wear shoes. No, that's. There's the part of the state that can't afford them and the other one that are just like, I wish I couldn't afford these. Not I wish I couldn't afford these.

I like being in the sand. If you're at a resort without shoes, it's different than if you have no shoes and you're going, Ow, these thistles hurt. That's different. The amount of toes you see in South Carolina is crazy. It's insanity. Gross. So let's go back to January 15th, 1993.

There's an article about Wayne here. Because 1993 is going into the NFL as we'll talk about. So they're doing a little article on him. And they say in this article, you could say Simmons's young life was shaped by a stretch of road between Hilton Head and his home in Low Bottom. Yeah. What is that? He's probably born at the hospital in Hilton Head.

Mm-hmm. Yep. And then went back to the, yeah. Low-bottom. You hear that. It's all the time. People are born in Manhattan, but they're raising the Bronx. You know what I mean?

It's not the same thing. Low-bottom is a tiny community not much bigger than a neighborhood, hidden from view of the commuters and tourists making their way between the island and the county seat of Beaufort. Not an accident. In other words, no shoes. This is shoeless territory here. Drive off U.S. 278 off Hilton Head past Moss Creek.

Moss Creek. Yikes. Yeah. And that sounds like some shit from Dukes of Hazard. They're going to jump the Moss Creek so Enos can't catch them. And Rose Hill plantations to McGarvey's Corner and just hang a right. This is the funny farm directions. McGarvey's Corner.

Hang a right where the old Henderson Barn. used to be, and go about three quarters of a mile up the railroad tracks. That's what we're talking about here. Just before a sign that reads Jasper County, a small road peels off to the right. This sounds lovely, huh? The Simmons House, the one he and his mother occupied during Simmons' teenage years at Hilton Head High School, is down the road. From high school to home, it was about 22 miles. It's a long way from your high school.

22 miles? Yeah, that's a... To get to school. Yeah, 40 round trip is a lot. 45 miles round trip is... Is that a lot? Does the bus come get you? You got a huff it.

Well, I mean, who knows? Maybe then you'd really want shoes at that point. Yeah, that's the... Wow. His mother, Dorothy, said, when Wayne was growing up, and I gave him a dollar, he thought he was the richest man in the world. So that's where we're coming from. By the way, Dorothy will be a frontrunner for the Golden Gilreitha Award this year.

By the way, she loves her son, even when she has no business being loved. So they say Simmons felt rich in more ways than one when he was young. He says this, you know what, let's give him it in their own words. Right off the bat, I think he's going to need it. Let's let him have the mic and set the stage for us here. In their own words, quote, pretty much my early. life. I didn't even know anything about poverty or anything of the sort. He said, we were happy, you know, I had my mom, that's all I wanted. That's it. That's all he wanted. That's what defined

money to him. Yep. He was, uh, just had my mom, didn't know anything about poverty. A lot of kids that grow up poor, if everybody's poor, they don't know they're poor. Right. Yeah. Well, back then, you would, now you would, because you have Instagram. So you'd go, wow. I'm insanely, even if you do well, you say, I'm insanely poor now. Because I don't have a yacht. Yeah. Probably back then, too, in low bottom, I can't imagine anybody's

got anything. So you just have no reference. You didn't see the outside world other than like TV, which was pretend. You know what I'm saying? So you didn't know. Everybody's only got their mom here. That's it. That's how it works. So anyway, Dorothy it says Dorothy knows the road from low bottom

to Hilton Head, even better than her son, driven it to work seven days a week from 1978 to 1988. She still drives that road, but now the early morning drive begins in Hardyville, where she and Wayne moved to a tiny but comfortable house during his senior year in high school. With her son on the brink of earning more money than she's ever dreamed of, little has changed since the days Simmons attended high school. Dorothy works seven days a week at this point still. Yeah, that's crazy.

On Mondays and Tuesdays from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m., you can see her working the register at the quote, Starvin Marvin convenience store on the island's south end. Yeah. The old Starvin Marvin store. Wednesday through Sunday, she cleans locker rooms at the Harbor Town Golf Links Clubhouse. Lovely. Oh, God, Jesus. Oh, that's rough.

As a member of the Sea Pines Company housing staff, she has, okay, so she's been, she has like three jobs, basically. Yeah. This is a strange thing to say. This sentence is really weird for two different reasons. Okay. Quote, Dorothy is probably my best friend. You mean, my mom. My mom, number one, you called your mom Dorothy,

and number two, your mom's your best friend? Uh-oh. That's strange. I mean, it's nice to be close to your mom, but it shouldn't be your best friend as your 21-year-old guy. It's kind of weird. People that their mom's their best friend. I don't know.

Maybe I admire it. I can't tell. Maybe I don't. Yeah, I don't. It just seems strange. He said, I'm a very quiet person. I don't hardly tell anything. I keep things in.

If I really say something or ask something or someone's opinion on something, I'd probably ask Dorothy. Really? Yeah. He needs an opinion. He's going to ask his mom, which I mean, I guess he trusts his mom. That's all. Yeah.

Dorothy said she doesn't let friendship get in the way of some stern mothering though. All right. Yeah, that's not. That's it. His old English teacher said Wayne has a supportive mother. If he did get into an incident at school or made a bad test grade, she would have, I guess she would be contacted and she would always come and get. Gather them up there? Yeah.

She was always caring about, you know, what he was doing in class. Dorothy said she knew she had to do that to keep her son in line. Dorothy said, I had to go to school one time to get him back in because he got kicked out of school at middle school. Wayne said a teacher had cussed him. When I got to the school, it was a whole different story. Wayne had cussed the teacher. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds more fucking apt here.

I told them with Wayne listening, listen, I work too hard and I work too many damn hours to come get. my son out of school. Next time Wayne gets in trouble, call the sheriff. She basically said if he does something that's criminal, call the sheriff. Otherwise, leave me the fuck out of it. If you can't deal with a kid cursing in seventh grade, you're not a very good school, are you? Probably,

which is, that's what I get out of it anyway. I got a shift to work. Yeah. I work too goddamn hard to say my son said shit, so I got to drive 22 fucking miles over here to come hear about it. Seven days a week, you guys. I go to work more than he goes to school. You guys have summers off. Eat my dick. So Simmons has a half sister. That's

Deborah. And she's older and works as a waitress at this point at Carmine's seafood and steak restaurant. And his half-brother Leon, who's also older. He's 27 at this point. So they're all pretty much older than him. It was an independent contractor and house painter at this point. So these are working people. And Wayne's going to go to the NFL. So it's pretty exciting. Wayne said that both, you know, had moved out when he was a teenager. And Dorothy said that Wayne's father took off when Wayne was about two and a half years old. Dorothy said, Wayne grew up real fast. It was just like the two of us against the world.

That's not great. This isn't great. That's why it's mom's best friend here. Yeah. The best friend now, Dorothy recalled the day she said Wayne became a man. The day, wait. She was there? Yes, she was in the corner.

It was like that old Chappelle sketch with R. Kelly going, that's gay. Oh, there's my son. There's Robert. Always peeing on people. They're the mad real world with Charlie Murphy in the corner. Yeah. Wacking it.

With his eyes glowing. It's fucking eyes glowing. It's the most genius part of that sketch is getting him with the night vision and the glowing eyes. They said that is not what they expected to get out of it at all. That was the funniest part. I remember watching that back in the day with the commentary and they're like, yo, this was the fucking best accident ever. We just were hoping

we'd see the movement and we see his fucking eyes glowing. We all like, we couldn't even edit it. We were on the floor laughing at his eyes. Like a demon. Like a fucking demon. Staring and jerking it. So, yeah, the day Wayne became a man.

Dorothy had a little pennant. Come on, Wayne, go. Go. Wayne, go. It said balls deep on it with an exclamation. point. She's waving it back and forth. This was the same day his father returned home with the idea of just picking up where he left off.

He just shut up. Really? Wayne's 14. Dude left when he was two and a half and he just tried to show up and be like, what? Holy. But Wayne, you know, even at 14, was about 6-2-240. He's a big guy. So, yeah, it's interesting. His coach

at Hilton had Bob Arundle described him as a manchild at 13 from chopping wood to heat the Simmons rural home because he was always chopping wood apparently. Dorothy said, Wayne told his father, you weren't here when we needed you, so you might as well leave now because

we don't need you now. My man, that's what I said to my dad. It works. You weren't fucking a child, though. No, I was 28. Yeah. It's fine to have the gumption to gather that up in your home when you're almost 30 for Christ's sake. This is an eighth grade. It's different.

I was a father for Christ's coming around for. Yeah. This kid was like, oh, I got a pub today. Like, he was, yeah. Yeah. He was Jack. Not that it was easy for you to do that either. Sure.

Yeah. So this is, now, his mother was from low bottom the whole way. She's born and raised there. She grew up there, huh? She grew up there. And Dorothy, when she had him, after she had him, she said she was determined to get her high school degree after that. So. Her what?

Her high school degree. Degree. Degree is the way she put it. By the way, high school degree. She enrolled at the Beaumont Technical, or Beaufort, I'm sorry, technical college. Now the technical college of the low country, which sounds like you'll learn all the best technology there, right? She actually, I think, was in secretarial sciences, which, okay, high school degree, technical college of the low country and secretarial sciences. The euphemisms here are out of control.

They're out of fucking control. Did an advertising fucking executive put this together? This is ridiculous. Yeah. Way to make high school sound so professional. Right. I took dialing this week. Oh, well, then.

Did you? I took telephone dialing. Oh, you know what? It wasn't as exciting as last week's hold course. That was amazing. That was an eye opening and enlightening. Hold on. line three.

So during this time, she and the kids, her older kids, lived with her mother, and obviously her older kids and Wayne lived with her mother, Mamie. She said it was hard raising a family and going to school, but it was something I was determined to do. She managed to do this for a little more than a year, but she said, I stopped school when Wayne was almost one. Financially, I couldn't continue. So, yeah, so she started working for.

full time at that point at a cafe in Harbor Town in 1972. In 1975 this is wild they moved to Yuma Arizona, the whole crew.

What? The kids, the mom, maybe, everybody. From Hilton Head. From low bottom. What would stop conflating these two places. I don't. I I mean, it's probably a lateral move.

It's like, from the South Bronx to, or from Midtown Manhattan? No, the South Bronx. Yeah, from Midtown Manhattan? No, no, they're not the same thing. Different places. From low bottom to Yuma is about the same. Yeah. It's just an entirely different climate, but it's the exact same everything.

Oh, God. Gee, it's disgusting. Yuma's a horrible place. It's the, it's a different climate, the exact same misery. Misery, yeah. At least in Sally, at least South. South Carolina is like within driving distance of other places. If you live in Yuma, you're in fucking Yuma, period.

There is nowhere else to go. It's four hours. Is it three hours still to the coast where San Diego is? Three hours back to Phoenix, two and a half. No, back to Phoenix. You can't live that way. You can go to Mexico. That's the place to travel to.

It's really not great. But they returned to low bottom in 1978. Couldn't make it in Yuma. Didn't probably just hate it. It's also 120 fucking degree. Yuma is hell on earth. It's hell on earth. It really.

It's awful. People don't know how bad that place is. No. And if anybody defends Yuma, they have brain damage. How dare you? How dare you? It was disgusting. So she took a job with the Sea Pines janitorial service in 1979 and at convenience stores, a lot of times working three jobs at a time.

So they said that they're the house, grandma's house on Bailey's Road just down the street from where Wayne grew up. So she had lived there since 1952 raising all her kids in this house. By the way, that didn't have indoor plumbing until 1979, Jimmy. Indoor plumbing. Plumbing. You'd think with this kind of upbringing, you'd just be grateful for anything. He was potty trained outdoors. Yes.

Think about that. You want to go outside? You got to go potty? You got to ask a kid. You got to go? You want to go outside? You want to go for a walk? And then they go, huh?

This is crazy. Oh, boy. You train a child the same way you train a puppy in the 70s. That's fucked up. You got to go potty? Shit is out of control in this fucking place right away. Wow. So Young, the grandma.

mother at this point she was a great grandmother during this article still worked at the Hilton Head Resort where she prepares cold salads for the guests she's a yeah she does like the food prep person

salads and desserts and shit she's done that for years now now Simmons here Wayne back to old Wayne General here which sounds like a hospital he attended the Chelsea Community Senate

which was a now the fire station in low bottom. Yeah. And that's where he would go as a kid to, I don't know, fuck around and do things here. To enjoy himself? Yeah. Then they got their own house, which was across the street

in a short distance down the road from grandma's house like we talked about here. There, that's the house. They have a tin roof and heated by a wood stove. That's the heat, wood stove. And so that's when Simmons was a little bit. different here. Wayne said this. I went to McCracken Middle School and kids came there, some from Hilton Head, and it was a society difference right there. You could see it. It was not to the point

where they were prejudiced. It was just to the point where they were, quote, better, so to speak. That's what they thought. Yeah, the financial disparity is already very ever-present. Yeah. If there's a school with rich kids and poor kids, as a lot of schools have, there's a, you know the difference. You know what I mean? You know the fucking difference here. Um, so he though at that point saw his own house. Before that, he just thought that's what everybody had. Yeah. Shit house like this.

But then, you know, we were you shit outside. But by the time this came around, he said, oh, now we realized it was fucked up. He said it was very small and old. It wasn't to the point where it was worn down. It was to the point where it was a framework. It wasn't worn down. It was broken. Yeah.

It never was enough to be worn down. Worn down is the base state of this place. Yeah, that's a lot. Wear and tear is worn down. This doesn't even have anything to wear and tear. Totally. Even as a kid, he was expected to keep the wood for the stove stocked, expected to chop the wood.

He chopped wood from age 10, all the way up until he went off to college here. He said, I had to cut wood all the time. That's my chores right there. That's what I did. It was just cut wood, and after I was finished, go down the road and play ball, play basketball. Yeah. So he said that that helped him build a lot of arm and hand strength as a child.

Yeah. When he's 10 to 13, he's way stronger than the other kids because he's chopping wood all the time. He's chasing chickens and punching sides of beef. Exactly, exactly. And grease lightning is what he's trying to be. So in his senior year in high school, his sister, Deborah, told him where his father was. And he thought his father was dead. Yeah.

Someone told him his father was dead, but his father lived two counties away. He's a 10-minute ride away? Yeah, right there. Two counties. That could be a long distance. But still, I mean, driving distance, not, you know. In the south, those counties are a couple of blocks sometimes. Sometimes.

He said, but his dad had giant arms, and he saw that's where he got his big, you know, his size from. He said, quote, he had long hair. He was part Indian, and he had those big arms just like mine. Yeah. So he said he felt no need to see him again after that. Just didn't feel anything for him. So he's been had the opportunity twice and he said, no, thank you. Both times.

Both times. Yeah. Not interested. He said he had a father that he thought of. And that was the, a guy named Tom Gardo who had, that was a guy he thought of as a father figure who had been tutoring Wayne in a program for young athletes. That's what he said. Tom Gardo was a Hilton Head advertising and public relations executive and Vietnam veteran. Oh.

So, yeah. He said, I had big hands, big arms, I guess by cutting wood. I did develop some kind of strength. I'm not a muscular kind of guy. I'm pretty good in the weight room, but I'm not the strongest. He seems like one of those guys is just a big naturally strong guy. Big country strong, as they used to call it, from chopping wood and being bails of hay and all that shit. This message is sponsored by Raycon.

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So, yeah, he said that he thought that he felt that he needed to always work hard. He wanted to get a job in high school, a paying job, so he said he could help with his mom and all that kind of stuff. is Dorothy's always working. She's a maid. She's a clerk in convenience stores like we talked about. His grandmother, Mamie, who he calls G, by the way. So Dorothy and G are his friends there. He said he knew that his father was gone, and he said that he didn't care about that.

He's thinking of his mother's jobs and recalling the smell of clean sheets and the sound of the cash register at the open pantry or the Starvin Marvin's Market. So that's what he said. His mom taught him his work ethic. But he's also a fuck up. Really? As a lot of kids are. Sure.

He had a lot of mischief. His older brother Leon had some legal problems. Also, he said his experience helped me to see trouble coming, though. So he's like, you know, so I won't get in trouble. He said that his seventh grade English. teacher again, remembers him at age 12, meaning Wayne, quote, behind verbally and not very motivated in the classroom. At that age, he never felt he would go to college no one around him had. Right. Yeah, and that's, people don't realize that if they, like, are from families where people,

like, go to college and it's expected of you. If nobody went to college, you don't even understand how it works. I didn't even know how you, like, applied for it. I had no idea. No clue. It was not a thing. It was not going to happen. No. I didn't even know where you got the papers. I had no idea. I didn't know no clue. The expectations, that's an expectation in people's lives sometimes. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, like our kids.

Yeah. That's all it ever was. Yeah. You don't have just till the 12th grade, then you've got to tack another 4 on to that. Yeah, 12th grade, smelt's great. Who cares? You're not even close to Dunn. The hardest part is still up.

Yeah. Where with us it was, you know, Just some abstract thing that other people did. Never thought how to do that. I impressed the motherfucker out of my grandfather when I graduated high school. And that was enough. He was like, what? I'm sure my grandparents would have been impressed to if I actually did it. But they weren't.

Because he did not. Another country they would have, hey, look at that. It's good for you. Nice a job. They don't know that that's fucking basic and menial. It's so easy. So his thinking changed after that. He said he remembered coming home from school one day and his mother was crying.

Oh. She said that she didn't have anything for him and she couldn't provide enough. And he said, here she was working all the time, too hard, too hard. Right then I knew I had to help to change and find a direction. I had to help and I had to change. So he went to work, he washed dishes. He would rake his neighbor. 's yards or wherever.

He would clean cars at the Arnold Palmer Ford. What? Over there, Arnold Palmer Ford dealership. Does he have Ford dealerships? Is it him? He did then. It's got to be, right? Yeah, around in a golfing community, I assume so.

I think, isn't that course his? I don't know. Probably. Who knows? I'm sure. If it's not, it should be. I'm sure there's a, there's like a bar on the eighth hole named after him or something. It doesn't matter.

So he dreamed about one day owning a Lincoln Town car as he... That's the one he wants, huh? As he washed the Lincoln Town cars. He said, I worked a lot of odd jobs at the bottom of the heap, and I was treated like hell. The only way I could see out was going to college becoming successful. Me and my mom went to a bank to get a loan one day, and the bank turned her down. I wanted to become a banker, so when someone like Dorothy Simmons came in for a loan, she'll get it. Oh.

Yeah. I'm going to change this. So he decided that school was the way he could get out of this. That was it. He was, because from 12, he was working. And I think when you get a job when you're 12, 13, you realize, oh, this is a long time. I don't want to do this for 75 fucking years. This is hard.

When it's menial, you know, like, you could never stop doing this. You got to do this forever. There's no money coming in. You're like, oh, boy, I'm going to have to work. Six weeks to pay for next week's food. This is fucked up. Yeah, no shit. So he'd get rides from home to restaurants where he'd wash dishes.

He said 12, 13, 14, those three years right there I worked as a dishwasher. I tell you, I think that's at the bottom of the labor force right there. I was treated like garbage and I couldn't do anything about it. That is the body. Yes, that is. That's where he's getting it. Like immigrants from Ecuador start there when they work their way up in the kitchen to a chef or something. And that's where you start is washing dishes.

And they'll hire a 12-year-old to do it because I wash dishes too. Because all it takes is an arm that moves. Yeah, that's it. Pick this up, do that, and fucking put it over there. Put it over there. There's three tanks. Dip it in all three of them. That's it.

He said, so I decided I wanted to do something. That's about the same time when I went to McCracken and saw the society differences. And I was working. I wanted to get down to wear good clothes. I wanted to get to wear good clothes and everything, and I was still down there, quote unquote, is the way he put it. So, and Dorothy said it pained her to see her son at 12 going to work every day and coming home and shopping wood and shit at night.

That's not easy. She'd get up at 4 or 5 a.m. for the commute to Hilton Head and be back at 6 p.m. to cook dinner for her and Wayne. And then one day it was too much. And, you know, we'll do another in their own words. We're going to give Wayne, too, because this is, He's going to try to pull our heartstrings right here. Oh, all right.

When he's pulling heartstrings, we've got to have the piano music in the background. So in their own words, quote, I remember coming home after shooting ball. I came in the house, and Dorothy was sitting on the sofa. The cat was by her. She was crying. So I closed the door and dropped the basketball and said, what's wrong? What's happened? And she said she didn't say anything for about 10 minutes.

So I was sitting there saying, what's wrong? And she said, Wayne, look at this place. I don't have anything at all for you. That's when I made a commitment to myself and also to her that we would make a change together. Okay. There we go. And that sets the table for him deciding I'm a big kid, I should play football. Wow.

That's where this is at. So I don't want to frame anybody in a terrible light, but that felt manipulative, didn't it? Yeah. I've tried so hard. I can't do it. Would you get out there and make some goddamn money? Please, somebody help. I can't give anything to you.

Give something to me. And that's the fuck. That's either that or you have to be at the absolute end of your rope. Yeah. That's all I can imagine. Whether you're just, you're at rock, you're at low bottom. I was going to say rock bottom, but we'll call. You're at low bottom and you're just like, listen, I don't even know anymore because.

I'm out of ideas. That's the shit you go do in your closet privately away from your children. You don't let the children see that. No. You sit there and you go. in there and you cry and you come out and you go, everything's great, kids. While you're pouring a real tall glass of wine. Well, you don't have any wine.

Or whatever it is. Salteens and peanut butter tonight, kids, that's dinner. Sorry. Hey, it's going to be a fun night. We're going to make sandwiches. Little ones. Little tiny sandwiches. That's, that sucks, man.

Yeah, it does. It's not easy, man. And I've done it. Fuck, I think we've all done it. We've all gone in the closet and cried. Yeah. So Simmons had always been a good athlete. And he's kind of big for his age.

He's a man-child type of thing. So that gets you a big kind of you're ahead of the game when it comes to that. A boost for sure, yeah. His first love is basketball. So basketball right away is kind of the first sport he was really, really into. And that's where people saw him and thought that he could play ball. And he was good. his high school football coach said he had a desire to play and played with real heart.

He had a football player's mentality. He enjoyed the reckless abandon. He had speed and a work ethic that he really liked to compete. So that's good. That's what you want from a kid. They said he wasn't a real vocal team leader, but more of a lead by example type of guy. In eighth grade, he was disciplined for missing several games. I'm sorry, for several games he was disciplined for, for missing practice and swearing.

Oh, yeah. Not on a football field, my God. I mean, even when I was in high school, and he was born much earlier than I was, they were, the coach yelled and swore. Cursed at you. Yeah, the coach cursed it more than anybody else. That's, that's crazy. They said he wasn't a goof off, but he was kind of bordered on jackass territory here. Yeah.

Between 8th and 10th grade, though, that's when it clicked. And that's when his mom's crying and all that kind of shit. And that's when he started realizing that football could go places. And when you're in high school, too, you start seeing like, oh, that guy on that other team we played against got a scholarship to fucking hear. And you're like, oh, shit, I did okay against that guy. He got a scholarship. Yeah. And I've still got time to.

Yeah. I'm here for two more years and he's a senior. Yeah. And he said, you know, he talks with his coaches and other people that Tom Gardo guys. that was helping him with the youth sports thing. You know, they had something to do with it. They were telling him, look, you could be something with, you can do something.

You don't have to go to low bottom every day. You know what I mean? Imagine, low bottom. And this is, after football player practice, a lot of the players didn't have rides home. Yeah. So he would literally, the coach would fill up the pickup truck bed of his Ford and just drop these kids off on the way home.

Climb in, everybody. It's illegal now, isn't it? I'm sure. Well, maybe not in South Carolina. Maybe not. It is. It kind of goes by state by state. And a lot of these people where there's a lot of farming, because they tried to do that,

they tried to make that law in Arizona. Oh, yeah. They couldn't make it because they said, you're allowed to sit in the back of a pickup truck in Arizona. I just mean a teacher taking children anywhere. You have to have like a permission slip almost for that all the time. Oh, probably. But back then, they didn't have rides. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So one by one, they would all, you know, fucking be let off. and Simmons lived the farthest away. So he got to talk to the coach a little more. Yeah. He said, this is his coach. One of the things I remember the most was that in his sophomore year and junior year, Wayne didn't really believe colleges would be interested in him.

I talked to him about it on rides home. His mom would meet him at Handy Dan's where I'd let him out. Handy Danz? And Starvin Marbles. Starvin, does everything have to have like a rhyming scheme down here to survive? He always had a. a full load of books. His mom made an impression on him. A lot of kids would hop out and have all their football gear and no school books. He had the books and you could tell that he was using them.

Now, a lot of this, he said, was due to the Gardo guy. That's the guy that, the guy with the youth football or youth sports thing. Gardo owned a public relations, you know, joint around there. and he began tutoring Simmons in English during his sophomore year at the football coach's request. Okay. So his coach said between his sophomore year and his junior year, I thought Simmons had a lot of potential, but he needed a male role model someone besides his coach to tell him what to do and prepare him to go to school. Okay. So the other guy, the Gardo guy, would talk to the kids before the games, and he said that he's really good at talking. and relating with kids.

And he said Garto became more than a tutor of school subjects. He was kind of teaching him this is what you need to do for life and shit like that. Chuck Reedy, who went on to be the Baylor University head football coach. I knew that name. Was the offensive coordinator at Clemson. And he recruited Simmons and visited him at high school and spent time with him and his mom, sat there at their low bottom home and hung out at the kitchen table. and just like, you know, every movie you've ever seen with recruiting where the coach comes over and gets right out there on the couch and acts like he's real comfortable even though he lives.

We'll tell you what you're going to do with this school. He lives in a 4,000 square foot house and he comes down there in a fancy car and he's like, let me tell you how comfortable I am eating your chili. Yeah, sitting down for a big, big dollop of a family recipe of potato salad. I'm down homesy. This tastes just like my grandma's. Whatever's in that crock pot on me. it. I'll tell you that right now. Don't even care.

You show you back with a smile. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So he said that he spent time with him, time with his mom. He said, I gathered that it was a very caring situation of the relationship with Wayne and his mother. He said it was just the two of them. They looked out for each other. The thing I respected was that he just wanted his degree to get his degree and take care of his mom. Right. Through the years, he said they built a person.

personal relationship. They were close after the rides home from practice. And then Gardo, you know, guided Simmons through the world of recruiting and all that kind of shit. So basically he even mentored him through college as well, this Gardo guy. Gardo said, I love him as a person. That's a funny thing to say, just to be able to care deeply for someone who's not part of your family. I've worked with other kids and have enjoyed them, but this was another step. So here is really took an interest in him. In high school, Simmons would visit, you know, his friends on the weekends on Hilton Head, but he would always bring his books with him.

He and the other kids, like Hilton headquarterback Tom Singleton, would go to Gardo's office, and they'd use his conference room to study on Saturdays. Really? So he would commute to study. Yeah. Which shows a, you know, it's more than I ever did in high school. I'll tell you that right now. I didn't go anywhere to study.

No. I wouldn't study at home. No. So Gardo said, I liked his honesty and his sense of humor. He's been a gift to me. I've been a gift to him. Okay. So this is from Wayne.

He said, I fly off the handle. When I was younger, I used to fly off the handle just like that. Get mad over things I couldn't control. It takes time. I'll always remember this quote that I've seen back in Mr. Gardo's office. Quote, good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. I think I'm going to have to apply this to controlling my temper.

It's actually a pretty good quote. It is. It's not bad. It's confusing a little bit. It is. You got to fuck up to get education. That's what it is. It seems like you have to know that shit already to understand that phrase.

Like, while you're in the midst of it, I don't know if you would get what that means. But once you're past that, you go, oh, yeah, I get that. You don't realize you're gaining intelligence while you're fucking up. Exactly. But you are. Everything is. Dorothy then said, I have a temper. Wayne has one.

I can control mine because I'm a little older. Wayne's going to have to learn to control his. He holds everything in. When things get a bit too much for him, he strikes back. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but maybe Wayne sees it as the right thing to do. They said, we're going to have to do something. The long road is behind us. We've struggled too long to get where we are now to have it all go down the drain.

Right. So here we go. is something from, he's so sweet, as we know, so sweet. So when he's 20 years old, June 25th, 1989, this is, he's just been recruited by Clemson and he's about to go play

for Clemson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is the summer, they do the summer workouts and all that shit. He's arrested. Uh-oh. Uh, this day on June 25th, 1989. Shoplifting, yeah? Uh, no, no, no, no, no. Hey, kids that like the James Winston with the crab legs.

Yes, it's stupid. Yeah. But also, you should have been paying him anyway like they do now. So shut the fuck up at the same time. So I don't really care, but that doesn't really show me like a 20-year-old kid doing some dumb shit like that. That's almost a prank. Like, that doesn't show me. Was it Cam Newton that may or may not have stolen a laptop?

Yeah, he also had other things. James Winston wasn't just the crab legs. He had other issues. He was doing other things. I'm just saying if it was just the crab legs, like it's kind of a jerk off, slap him on the wrist, tell him not to do that shit again. But this is different. He's arrested and incarcerated for assault and battery. Incarcerated, yeah.

Assault and battery and he goes, oh, well, he's out with some guy as talking some shit. Maybe some guy slapped his girlfriend's ass. Oh, no, this was he hit a girl. He hit a woman? He hit a woman. Why? Do we know? Yeah. Well, we do.

Quote, because she was ignoring him. Well, yeah. Well, now that makes perfect sense. Hey, I'm talking to you, bitch. Now it seems perfectly reasonable. It seemed crazy at first, right? Yeah, maybe it was too loud and she couldn't hear him, so he had to get her attention. Wow.

She was ignoring me. Oh, well, by all means. You only hit her once? It's it? Sometimes, yeah. Jesus, you're like 240 pounds. You've got to lay a couple more shots in on her, I think, before you really do anything. Wow.

Was this in public? I don't know, in public somewhere. after the victim's mother learned of the incident, she drove her daughter over to Simmons' house to find out why he hit her. What? I think that's pretty irrelevant at this point. I think that's the police's job.

Yeah, well, apparently Simmons had another chance here. That's why her mother was like, she can get mouthy. I'm going to go over there and make sure that's what the problem was. So once they got over there, this is his chance to try to quell the situation. Yeah, and instead, quote, according to the police report,

Simmons began to curse them and ordered them to leave his yard and at the same time shoved the victim with his hands. He doubled down. He said, bitch, get out of my yard with your fucking stank-ass bomb. Oh, my God. Bring your mama over here.

Wow, that is, I don't even know to say about that. That's not good. That's not good. Great, that doesn't show great character, I would say. I would hope his mom would drive from low bottom over there and beat the shit out of him for that. But I feel like Dorothy would defend him possibly. He's already on the team in college?

Yeah, he's already, he's there for his freshman year, right? And they just go, no problem. You're still on the team. Don't do that again. Clemson in 1989, they go 10 and 2, which sounds pretty good. They're 12th in the final AP poll, which isn't terrible. I'm trying to look at who they have, who went to the NFL. Terry Allen, the running back, Doug Thomas, Chris Gardocki, Levan Kirkland.

Oh, there we go. He was a badass. Dexter Davis, Jerome Henderson, those are the only NFL guys. This is, Clemson was not the powerhouse they became in the 2000s. Only lost two games, regardless. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's impressive. But they were still like, they weren't at like a national powerhouse.

Like they became later when just all those SEC, teams became, you know, everything. So this year, he plays in 11 games this year. Wow. And he has one interception. And that's all we know about his stats. He has an interception. He's playing linebacker. That's what he's got. March 28, 1990.

He's a little frustrated, let's just say here. This is fun. The title or the headline in the Greenville News is Tiger in need of a break. A Clemson Tiger. A Clemson Tiger. From the article here, Wayne Simmons, the Clemson Tigers' gifted sophomore outside linebacker,

had thought about spending spring break in Bermuda with friends. Thought about it. Thought about it. Then said, wow, that's expensive. But after three largely frustrating weeks of spring practice, Simmons decided to go home to Hilton Head Island, there to be with his family, and to clear his head. He said, I'm not doing things well right now.

It's not doing a good job. He said, right now, I'm learning, I'm in a learning stage. I'm trying to think and do things right. I'm really having a tough time out there. They said, never one to hide his feelings. Simmons said the transition to a different style of defense under the new head coach has sapped his confidence. Oh. And that's tough.

If you get recruited somewhere, you're recruited by the coach. The coach is everything. They come to your house. They sit there. They eat your crock pot. They do all that shit. He's part of this. Yeah.

If he leaves after your freshman year. Next guy coming in and may not give a fuck. They don't give a fuck. They want their own guys. At the same time, the whole system changes. You can't give me the same team and expect me to have the same result or better results. Well, and if you're their system changes, if you're a 30-year-old NFL player and you're a professional, your job is to go home, learn the playbook, deal with the change in the system, and that's what you do. If you're a college kid, that takes way more.

Oh, God. It's difficult. So Simmons said, what has happened is that last year I could go on my first instinct. If I made a mistake, then, hey, somebody behind me would back me up, would cover for me. Right now, if I make a mistake, I could jeopardize the whole play, so I've gotten a lot more pressure on my hands. Yes. Well, that's, yeah, they put you in a position of more responsibility. He said, this is a more structured defense.

We have a lot more assignments, which means I'm going to have to concentrate more than ever. I'm learning something new every day, but to be honest, it's my confidence level. It's not too high right now. Well, this sounds like a more NFL defense is what this sounds like, like a more pro-style defense rather than just attack, you know. So they said confidence was never a problem for Simmons in his freshman season. As a reserve, Simmons wrote his name on the marquee early in the season, intercepting a pass and returning at 73 yards for a touchdown.

Wow. in a victory over Florida State, which that was a huge deal back. Florida State's a big rival, too. From that point, Simmons continued to blossom, and by the end of the season, he had a team high, 10 tackles for a loss, six passes broken up, two caused fumbles and two fumble recoveries, and five and a half sacks. Wow. So that's a hell of a freshman season,

certainly, yeah. Especially in that good of a division there. You know, there's a lot of good teams you're playing. They said, for that kind of work, was named the best red shirt freshman outside linebacker in the country by the sporting news. One interception. One for 70. We have the sacks, the tackles for a loss.

It's not just the interception. For someone so fast, 4.5 in the 40, which is, especially for, you know, 1990, a guy, a linebacker running a 4-5 is a big goddamn deal. Yeah, when, yeah, receivers are running, the best ones are running that. Jerry Rice ran a 4-6. Right. If you can run it down at linebacker, you're doing it right. The best receiver of all time ran like a four-six. So what does that tell you? They said that it's unlikely that Simmons' confidence will stay in the valley for long. Simmons thinks his springtime anxiety will disappear in late August when the Tigers began preparing for their Long Beach State opening game on September 1st.

He said, I understood the old system. I knew what was going on. I had confidence. Right now, I only know what I'm supposed to do. do, I'm learning. So, yeah, let's see what happens here. August 22nd, 1990, Simmons set to crash in, cash in. That's the headline. So Wayne Simmons says some people have told him that he has what it takes to play in the NFL, but Simmons isn't banking on other people's opinions.

Yeah. Yeah, the outside linebacker said Sunday that he wants to keep his career options open. and one of the options he's considering pursuing is banking. Yeah. Yeah, that's going to happen. You're going to be a banker, not a fucking linebacker. Jesus Christ. So that's what he wants to do.

He's working toward a degree in financial management. He said, a lot of people say I've got the potential to get to the next level. If they, the NFL teams want me, that's fine. He said, but he learned a valuable lesson a few months ago when he sat in a room on NFL draft day with Clemson defensive tackle Otis Moore, who was eagerly awaiting a call. He noted that Moore anticipated being selected in the fourth round, but didn't get drafted until the 10th round. God dang.

Which, by the way, everybody doesn't exist now. Right. He's a free agent signy at this point. How many are they not? Seven. Seven. Seven. His motivation to be a banker is suspect, too, though, because all he wants to do is give money away.

Be Oprah, because the bank is going to tell. There's reasons. The bank don't get to approve loans for nice, poor ladies that you want to help. That's not how it works. There's a certain. You can't change credit scores, man. There's probably a set of guidelines of what has to be reached to be able to do that. So he said it almost drove him crazy waiting for that call.

I don't want to go through that. So you don't want to play in the NFL because you're scared. You're going to look stupid waiting to get drafted. I don't want to be Aaron Rogers. A fucking idiot. Yeah. Jesus. It's not like that guy had the cameras in his face.

He just sat there being upset. Imagine being fucking Aaron Rogers back in the day and having them. And there's been multiple guys like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're the only ones. Yeah. He's just the most famous because at one point they were saying he was going to be number one pick overall.

That was why. Not even close. Yeah. So they said Simmons is a sophomore eligibility-wise because he redshirted it as a freshman. He said he's on schedule to graduate in four years and intends to graduate in 1992, regardless of how it may affect his NFL draft position. Okay. He said there are two types.

of football players. There are fellas who come here to play football, and there are fellows who come here to learn and associate with people and not just play football. The ladder type are trying to set a foundation for their lives. He said ladder, huh? He said the ladder type. Nice.

He did. He's considering, he considers himself in that category of just trying to be a more well-rounded person and play football. The ladder type, exactly. He said Dorothy is the most. motivating force behind his strong will to succeed. He said, I don't have anything. I'm poor.

All I have is my mother, but that's a lot. Me and my mother, we've gone through a lot of hard times together. He's still saying it. He's still saying. He said that she has focused him. He said, I used to mess around in high school and get into trouble sometimes. But she told me she wanted me to make something out of myself. She cried about it.

And that really touched me. How many times was she crying? Honest to Christ She's crying a lot She cries a whole lot Well, she works hard I told her that I'm going to take care of her I don't know how yet

But I'm going to do it I want to make it So she doesn't have to work anymore So she can do what she wants Go where she wants to go Okay Okay I mean sure

But That's a I don't know how I'm going to do it But I'm going to do it I'm telling you I'll get it done god damn it I'll figure it His new outside linebackers

coach, a guy named Roger Hinshaw, said that he learned quickly that Simmons is something special. When the coach announced his resignation from the team last season, Simmons and a lot of the other players were shocked and upset. Yeah, that's like, you just told me you're going to be here, guide me to the NFL and all the shit. Now you just quit. However, Hinshaw said it didn't make, it didn't take Simmons too long to accept the new coaches. He said, life is such that people progress at different levels. Wayne is a very smart young man. He's got book smarts and he's got street smarts. He's going to succeed in life.

Let's put that quote. Mark that. Put that quote on a fucking marquee. He's going to succeed in life so much so that in 30-something years, two jackass comedians are going to be making fun of what a fuck up he is. And people are going to listen because it's fun. He's going to make something of it. God damn it.

Wow. He said he's picked up where he left off in spring practice. He's got a tremendous. desire to excel. Simmons said that he was a little disgruntled when his coach left at first because, quote, or with the new coach at first, because he said he was nitpicking at me, getting on me for every little thing. But I understand him now.

I know where he's coming from. He wants me to do better. Right. Yeah. He said, coaches don't always understand me right away. He said, I don't say a whole lot to coaches. But when I'm around the guys, I'm tricking. I'm Wayne Simmons.

Okay. Huh? He's tricking, James. He's tricking. He's tricking. He's really tricking. I'm tricking. I'm Wayne Simmons.

All right. Great. I meant the, I know the trickin part. The I'm Wayne Simmons part at the end. Okay. What does that mean? Yeah.

And they know that. You know, like, they got it. The coach attributed any misunderstanding between he and Simmons to the type of terminology he uses, which may be different than the terminology used by the former coaching staff. He said the only thing new for the players is learning new words.

The words may be different, but the style of play being coached by the staff is pretty much the same. He said, we knock the crap out of him and go get the ball, and Wayne does that real well. It fits in with his personality. Okay. We just do things real rudimentary around here. We just knock the crap out of them. We just knock the crap out of people and go get the ball. That seems to work.

That's a basic thing. See that? Knock the crap out of them and take the ball. Okay. But if it's the same thing as last year, then why'd we lose? Well, you see, it worked really well with this young man from the Cajun country who was very obsessed with water. We told him what to do. And it worked that well.

He hated Gatorade, boy, I'll tell you what. So Simmons said Coach Hatfield plays the same kind of football that Coach Ford did. He said that members of Hatfield staff take a more hands-on approach to coaching. The new coaches are more apt to give advice, which Simmons says he has mixed feelings about. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about how to dress better with Quince. Quince.com. Q-U-I-N-C-C-E dot com. You know it.

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Now available in Canada, too, for you guys. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash crime in sports. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash crime in sports. Now back to the show. Oh. He said everybody thinks. He's the Bible Toten Hatfield, but he's a Lucifer in disguise.

The man wants to win football games. He's on a mission. What does that mean? He said that about his coach. I don't know what that means exactly. He comes across this real nice guy, I guess, but when he gets in there, he's saying crush him and kill him and we'll fucking wreck him. Yeah, we're going to rack him up. Simmons said, Coach Ford's practices were rated as the toughest practices in the nation by one of the sports magazines.

Ford pushed you. He tried to find out if you were a man, if you could play football. With Ford, you had to do something or you had to do everything even if you were hurting. Hatfield, he asks you to do it, and if you don't want to do it, you get out. With Hatfield, if you don't want to be out there, then you don't have to come. Everybody that's out here wants to work. That helps create a good attitude. Well, it also shows you who your players are.

Toughest ever, huh? Even tougher than Cush? Apparently, well, at the nation at the time. Cush was coached at the time. He had already been drummed out of the coaching. He was a damn near murdering people. For doing crazy shit like that. Yeah.

That's the other thing. They said he's played behind John Johnson and Levan Kirkland, who were both preseason at all ACC selections, because Clemson's in the ACC at that point. Simmons ranked sixth on the team with tackles, best among Clemson's second team players, tied for the team lead and tackles for losses. He had a great, a great fucking,

Oh, shit. A great career. That interception against Florida State was against quarterback Peter Tom Willis, who I don't know if you remember him in the NFL at a very brief run, was drafted by the Bears. He wore number two, I want to say, a single-digit number, or maybe three, but he was terrible, an absolute disaster, like most Florida State quarterbacks are. I don't know what system they were running out down there that didn't translate to the

Who have they had that's been successful? That's what I mean. A quarterback? Yeah. Very few people. I mean, their best quarterback played point guard for the Knicks for a long time. Put it that way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Won the Heisman and played point guard. Yeah. They're like Florida, regular, the Gators quarterback's the same thing. Where was Testa Verdi from? Was he there? Miami.

I was just going to say Miami had Testaverdi, Vinny Cozaw, or Bernie Cozar, Vinie Testaverdi, all these guys. That's an NFL system. That's why Jimmy Johnson was a successful NFL coach, and no one from fucking Steve Spurrier from Florida was a shit NFL coach. See how that works? College system, pro system. Yeah.

So the sporting news selected Simmons as the best red shirt outside linebacker in the nation in 1990, but Simmons said he could have done better last season. He said, I know I can play ball, and I haven't played the way I know I can yet. In high school, my mentality was different. But here, I'm still in the shadows. I'm looking forward to the day where I'm the number one person to force the issue. Yeah, if you go from the big man on campus and the star of the team to your third string behind these two guys. It's tough stuff.

Yeah, it's not the same mentality. They said, pointing at Simmons, who was busy signing autographs and cajoling fans during Clemson's annual photo day Sunday afternoon, Hinshaw remarked, wrapped up in that body is one of the best pure athletes on the team. Simmons, I know, wrapped up in that body. Don't say that. It's just gross. I don't say that about a child, man. He's a man, but...

Yeah, still. Yeah, you're in charge of him. It's creepy. Simmons has a 35-inch vertical jump, tied for third best on the team, and has been clocked on the 40-yard dash at 4-5, ranking him among the top 10 on the team. Simmons gained a reputation for being one of Clemson's most vocal players last season,

but he said he doesn't think he's ready to accept a leadership role on the team. And, oh, by the way, too, the 40 times people have now and people had then. They're the same speed. People now train for the 40. Just to run. Like Tony Mandritch was the first guy who trained for the combine.

Yeah. And he got drafted in the first round real high and was a big bust because none of that translates to football. He gave a shit about was those. Yeah. Because that's where your money comes in. Yeah.

And ever since the late 90s, they had all those Arizona is the ground zero of all these training centers, these elite training centers where they literally go and train for the combine. Yeah. So that's why everybody's numbers

are so much better now than they were then. The guys were like drinking beer the night before back then. Now they're literally doing nothing but training for specific exercises for months before it happens. I know a punter in college.

He graduates this year and he is right now while we're doing this show, working with a coach to get the best punt that he can to show off to these teams. That's all he gives a fuck about is. I guess I don't think

your 40 time matters much as a partner probably. I don't think anything except for that coffin kick matters. I would fucking hope not. So, yeah, he says he wants to be a leader. He says, I'm still wild. I don't want to have all that burden of being a leader on my shoulders. Sometimes I'm quiet. Sometimes I'm a talker.

I'm kind of lead by example. So he's like, I don't know if I'm ready yet. He said, sometimes I have a freshman asking me what they should do. They ask me about certain situations and I try to tell them how I'd play it. They tell me, I like the way you play. I want to be like you. I want them to have that kind of incentive that I do, but I just tell them to be themselves and have the right attitude.

Yeah. So he's like a comedian coach. Yeah, he's trying to. Just be the best you. Just be yourself out there. Yeah. And don't come back to me when you eat dicks trying to do that, by the way. Don't ask me why that didn't work.

Because that's what you'd tell open micers when they'd come to you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, listen, back in the day of, you know, we're opening for people. It's like, hey, I'm making $50. Figure it out yourself. You know what I mean? But they're looking at that $50 is like, holy shit.

There's a fucking canyon between me and that $50. So they want your help. Yeah, but I don't need you getting any better and taking this $50 out of my kids' mouths, you motherfucker. That's the other thing. I just say that's all you tell people. I don't know, try to be yourself more. Also, funnier. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Funnyers. Make people laugh. I don't know. Well, I would always, I'd be a, sometimes I go, well, how much do you write? Yeah. Like, well, I got this joke. I got new jokes.

Like, no, no, no, no, no. How much you're right? How much the time do you spend a day looking at shit? Yeah. And they go, I mean, when I have an idea, go, well, that's why you suck. That's it. That's it. That's it.

You're not. I'm sitting around figuring my jokes out. You're not flushing out a terrible joke. No. Knowing that there's something funny in it. Yeah. You know all those notebooks I have? A bunch of shit in there.

That's all garbage. Yeah, that's why someone's paying me and not you. Because I'm fucking working on it. You're not. So 1990 Clemson Tigers, 10 and 2 again, 9th in the final A people. This year, again, same, not a ton. Derek Witherspoon, Larry Ryan, some other NFL guys, but no real big NFL stars here besides, you know, some of these guys.

But Levant Kirkland, obviously. This year he plays in 11 games again, has one interception. Okay. So he's got that. The bowl game is on January 2nd, 1991. And it is Clemson versus Illinois. Oh. In this bowl.

And it says in this, Simmons plays sparingly. 87 Hilton Head graduate, Wayne Simmons played sparingly in the bowl game, contributing mostly on special teams. He was credited with two unassisted tackles. That's from the Hilton Head Island paper. July 23rd, 1991, or I'm sorry, June 23rd, 1991. So almost a year to the day after his last incident here. According to a Clemson University police report, Wayne was cited for assault and battery.

This is crazy. After allegedly hitting, struck a man from behind who was the Domino's Pizza Delivery man. He punched, Hmm. Why? He attacked the Domino's pizza guy from behind. It gets worse, by the way. Ah, sucker the pizza man.

Sucker punched the pizza man who was a named Gao Zing, X-I-N-G. Yeah. Who was a Ford student attending Clemson working part-time delivering pizzas. So I'm going to go out on a limb here. I'm going to say he's probably from where, China, Zing sounds like. we'll say somewhere in Asia. Don't look at me. Something tells me.

Trouble for what? We don't fucking know. I think Gao Zing is Asian, no? It's certainly, yeah, probably. What are we doing right now? Gowsing is fucking Asian, period. There is no. Sounds like it.

Probably, it is. God damn it. You know any fucking guys from fucking France named Gao Zing? No. I don't put it past. Last white people is my point. How'd they get Zing is their last name? No.

They're fucking Asian. Yeah, yeah, bro. So he's an exchange student that's just delivering pizzas. Yeah. Why would he be attacking this person? Well, my point is, I'm thinking an Asian foreign exchange student is probably not 6 to 245 pounds. That's what I was trying to get at. Yeah.

All right. Asians small. Yep. Much smaller than the starting linebacker. For the football team. That's all I'm getting it. So he was, anyway,

I guess he had to have his rights, he had to have his rights to safety and other freedoms explained to him by the police. He thought just if someone beats you up, they beat you up and there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, because that's just what happened sometimes. You're not allowed to just punch people for no reason. Holy.

So again, Asian, we're going to say. He's from an Asian country where anything fucking goes. Probably Cambodian or something. The Yakuza got me. I was slipping. I don't know. Wow.

So he declined to press charges against Simmons, probably because he was terrified. Because he didn't, yeah, he didn't know. And he didn't know. And he didn't know. And the press charges, he doesn't know what that is. He's also probably. So he's a foreigner. That means I've got to go see him again.

I don't want to do that. Yeah. I've already had a bad experience with him. Besides, this pizza is 28 minutes were going on. They said 30 minutes for less on the commercial. So guys, TikTok. I'm going to pick up $6 for this. That's all it costs.

I'm going to get like a 40 cent tip, so I got to go get that. 1991 Clemson Tigers here, 9-2-1 this year. We don't know why he attacked him? No, no idea. Just attacked a guy. He decided to punch a tiny exchange student who was delivering pizzas from behind. And no charges, so it doesn't matter why he did it. No charges, no.

It's just according to the Clemson police report. So 91 Clemson are 18th in the final poll. So not quite the same season. That tie fucks him up pretty good there. Now, this year, though, he does pretty well. He starts six games, plays in 12, which is good here. Looks like he had tackles, 36 tackles. Solo tackles, apparently, assisted tackles.

So 49 of those. He had six sacks. for 45 yards and losses. Wow. I mean, besides the number of the number of actual sacks, which is actually no, he's got more sacks than LeVon Kirkland does. And he's averaging almost eight yards per sack. That's incredible.

Kirkland's 5.5 sacks for 35 yards. So that's a, so I mean, besides the number of tackles because Kirkland plays more. Yeah. He does well. He's got all the stats match up for him. 92 Clemson, not very good. at all. Five and six. Eish. That's bad stuff

right there. Five and six. Yeah, this year, not even close to the same squad as they had last year. I don't know if that's a quarterbacking problem or what, but they had Patrick Sapp who played in the NFL, it says, I don't remember him at all. But all of their

quarterbacks here, I see three quarterbacks listed, and they have a grand total of four touchdowns between them. Ooh. That is horrifying. Not even one a piece. No. One has three, one has one and one has none. Yep. That's how they, oh wow,

that is brutal, man. September 4th, 1992, here we go. He is a Butkus award candidate. That is the best linebacker in the country candidate here. Yeah, they're saying he's up for the award. The Buckus Award created in 85 and named after Dick Buckus, obviously, the legendary Bears linebacker. Best linebacker with even better name.

That fucking great. Awesome name. Man, you got to, and you think about it, you've got to be a tough guy. Yeah. I dare you to fuck with that man. Yeah. Yeah, that's how he became tough. He had to growing up.

So he and his teammate Ashley Shepard, also an outside linebacker. Well, you can't get any more opposite from Dick Butkiss than Ashley Shepard. I don't know. Ashley's a pretty tough guy usually too, though. No, Ashley Shepard sounds like. like an interior design ticotker. Or a guy that... No, a woman.

Like a 40-year-old. Ashley Shepard designs. Ashley Shepard, Channel 4 News. Channel 4 News. Ashley Shepard bringing you this weekend's weather. It sounds way more. Welcome to cooking with Ashley Shepard. Yeah, definitely not.

You wouldn't say, hey, I'm Dick Buckus. Let me tell you this weekend's weather or what curtains to put up. He wouldn't say, I'm Dick Buckus. Here with the Dick Buck, Dick Buckess winner Ashley Shepard. Ashley Shepard, yeah. She's tough as shit. He said, wait a second, they're giving my award to a guy named Ashley. Are we sure this is a guy?

Yeah. So they were named to the preliminary list of 49 linebackers in the nation considered candidates. The list will be paired down to 10 semifinalists. So that's what's going on here. Now, September 22nd, 1992, that's September 4. September 22nd, this is from the Island Packet, which is the Hilton Head Island newspaper. Hilton Head High Graduate denies assault charges is the headline. Clemson's starting linebacker Wayne Simmons was arrested Monday and arraigned Monday on a charge of simple assault and battery after allegedly hitting a woman with a hat.

He can't keep his hands nor his hat to himself. I thought it said bad at first. And I was like, Jesus, that's not simple assault battery. He beat a woman with a hat. With a hat. How big of a hat are we talking about? It's like a 10 gallon you could do some damage. But, you know, if it's like a baseball cap, I don't know how much you could really.

One of those hard straw hats will hurt. Oh, they'll hurt. Yeah, that's true. He's a graduate there. He was released on $248 personal recognizance bond. And charged with hitting a female student with a cap near the university. University Union at about 1130 p.m. according to the arrest warrant. What the fuck?

His coach Hatfield said, I'm disappointed that situations between young adults are not always handled in a way that's mutually beneficial to both parties. What the fuck does that mean? Mutually beneficial. All right. Did he hit a girl or not? What are we talking about? What's beneficial to her in this situation? Yeah.

How would that work to not be hit by anything? He said, Wayne has stated that he did not. do what he has alleged to have done and he will be presumed innocent until proven otherwise. He will have an opportunity to present his side of the situation at a future date. The Office of Student Development routinely reviews the details of such alleged incidents to determine what, if any administrative and disciplinary action should be taken, but those decisions are confidential. Sure.

So here's the real story of what happened. Oh, boy. That's the newspaper. Here's from a book. There's a bunch in here every once in a while from a book called. called pros and cons. And it's really an interesting book. It's just about criminal NFL players.

And a lot of them are like under the radar shit. Like Lewis Billups was in there. Yeah. How did we not call this show that? Pros and cons, because it's cheesy. I mean, I guess because it's, yeah. Somebody did this in 1970 something. Yeah.

And also when we started this, we were looking for. Right on the nose. We were looking for crime and sports to be in the title. So it would be easily searchable. Sure. Yeah. We were actually trying to get people to listen to it. And then some other crappy show called pros and cons tried to imitate us after that.

And they were like 10-minute shows where there was a mic in the middle of the room. And he was like outside yelling. Outside the room. Yeah, it sounded terrible. And I think it lasted like five shows. So on September 17, 1992, he was arrested from charges of assault and battery after striking a fellow student at Clemson. According to the police report, the student was approached on. campus by Simmons, who was with a group of 15 of his football teammates.

That sounds terrifying for you. That's a mob. That is a rape mob at that point. That is a gang of large men. If I see that and I'm a woman, I'm going to the other side of the street. I'm getting in my car and starting it and leaving. Jesus. Quote, Wayne Simmons was in the middle of the group pointing at me and moving his hand as if he was acting out a person sucking a penis.

We know that motion. Yep. She said in her police statement that, quote, he had his hand in a circular fashion around his mouth, moving it back and forth away and closer to his mouth, as if we needed a real... Say again now? Hold on now. He's ming his hand. Back and forth.

Like in a fist motion, right? Yeah. Like he's grabbing a dick. Okay. All right. Okay. This makes sense. He continued doing this.

laughing with the rest of his friends. The student alleged that when she confronted Simmons about his conduct, he then took off his hat. He took his hat off and his football friends started holding him as he was going to hit me. He's going to hit me because I said don't make blowjob fucking things at me. Wow, he does not like to not be told what not to do. From school till now, you better love everything he's doing or he's going to react to that shit. He then took his hat off, or he then took his hat and smacked me in the face with it.

Then one of Wayne's friends said that I better leave before I get hurt. Jesus. How can 15 guys not knock him the fuck out for doing that? Yeah, who doesn't go to my friends? You touch a girl. We're all going to beat the shit out of you. What is going on? These football teams are a fucking, they're a fucking mob. They're just a bunch of yes men. Yeah. Yeah, they are. They're a bunch of ass kissers and he's up for award and he's fucking important. And he takes his hat off like Bugs Bunny

with the glove? Like what is that? Yeah, exactly. Now I'm going to fight you. Get the fuck out of here. So she told authorities that as she walked away, I heard Wayne yelling, you sucked his dick, dick sucker. I heard him yell this continuously until I walked

out of the door. Oh my. This is indoors. He did this too, which makes it worse. October 28, 1992. This is from the newspaper, Clemens Simmons to miss game after second assault charge. Why can he not keep his hands to himself? This is fucked up, man. He's been suspended for a game after being charged with assault and battery for the second time in less than two months. He's arrested Monday in the wake of an alleged altercation Saturday night with an employee of an arena night or an area night spot, the school said.

So he's out at the club fucking around. Simmons allegedly grabbed a bar employee, Eric Scholl, after he brushed up against Simmons, and hit him in the head. Oh, boy. He's that asshole. You accidentally brush up against him and he punches you. In a crowded nightclub and he punches you.

This is the fucking the worst guy in the area. That's the only place ever that you, I guess football, any sporting event you probably got to touch. But you just, you have to touch people because you're behind them. You have to tap them. The polite way of doing that is so hard to decipher based on, this person's not even looking at me. So when you, and the people that get offended by that,

don't go to these places, you fucking lunatic. And you know what usually the, because I was a bouncer for years, what deciphers, what the difference is between you bumped into me and I'll kill you. How many drinks you've had? My drink spilled. Yeah, yeah. My drink spilled. Yeah.

If you hit my arm a little of my drinks spilled, now we're fighting. Yeah, whether or not you just bought me a little and my drink's fine, we're okay. Whether or not I've bumped you enough to change the level of your cup. Yeah. To knock a quarter ounce of shivis from your glass. Fuck you. So, yeah, apparently he hit him in the head, according to the police report. Simmons had to be pulled away from him and away from the scene by his teammates.

Wow. He's got to control. He doesn't even know to leave. Scholl, the bartender or whatever, was treated and released from a local hospital. Simmons is the third Clemson player to be arrested in the last week. He had to go to hospital about it. And the second to face criminal charges after an alleged incident at the underground, which was this club. So this is twice in a week players have gotten arrested here.

Clemson players. Gee, I don't know. If you're the coach, you say, no one's allowed to go to the underground. If you're caught there, you're fucking suspended. How's that? And what year is this? 80 what? This is 93. 93? I mean, I guess it's not as obvious at this point. It's not as obvious at this point that somebody's got some decision-making problems already. Right? Dude. Yeah, this is a- The area of the brain that's rapid response is not firing correctly. That's frustrated. That's all that's firing is rapid response.

Right. Yeah. That's it. Right. But the rapid response that makes the right decision is all misquired already. that judgment where you go, one second here. He doesn't have that. That image that you have in your head that plays out in a split second where like I'll split this motherfucker and then you go, I can't do that. Well, a minute. Consequences.

Wait a second. Yeah. And then my kids are going to be mad on me and I can't go to schools anymore. None of that. Yep. All that's out the window. Yep. He was released on a $500 personal recognizance bond shortly after his.

his arrest. Wow. So this is wild. So this is after he hit hit the girl with the hat. Yeah. Simmons is requesting a jury trial for this. Is that right? A jury trial. Do you want to hear this story? He is lucky, man. In suspending Simmons, Hatfield said that he was, quote, trying to get Wayne's attention. Hey, stupid. And either way, this incident just costs you a shitload of money, asshole. Oh, yeah. Because this is the type of shit, especially in the 90s, that makes teams go from picking you 15th overall to the fucking fifth round. Absolutely. Which means guaranteed millions of dollars or not even guaranteed to make the roster. Work your ass off to get on the team.

That's the fucking difference. Yeah, the coach said, I think Wayne's got to get his life together and learn how to respond rapidly. Rapid response. Like you said, in certain situations in a more appropriate manner than what he has. He said, I talked to him yesterday and told him how disappointed I was that this occurred. I told him this is not good for us, not good for the team, not good for Clemson, not good for you. Right. See, this is what I don't get why a coach at this point.

Nowadays it's harder because there's way more money involved, but I don't get why a coach at this point, including the players getting paid, doesn't say, hey, asshole. Yeah. You are not playing for the next three fucking weeks. Yeah. Fuck you. You think anyone's going to get arrested again? Nope. Not going to happen.

It ain't going to happen again. I don't get it. Just because they don't want to lose a game. Right. Because it's his job. If he sits this guy and they lose those three games, now the fucking alum, they're all going to be pissed at him. You can't tell a coach at the same time your job is to win the most football games

and the biggest football games and shape these young people into men. Those are separate jobs. You can't have it both ways. You can't. Yeah. Yeah, so the schools should be doing this and not the coach. The schools should say, well, you are suspended, period. It should be all the schools that way.

Yeah. Make these young men with successful people's egos behave properly in public and win all the games. They're two different things. It's tough. Yeah, but you can't have your guys going around like some kind of fucking mob. Yeah, beating up bartenders and women. You can't have that. It's unacceptable.

And it's different. If he got in a fight with a. another big guy at a nightclub and shit happens. Yeah. I get that. I would have, I would be way less, you know, coming down on someone for that. But if you hit a girl, that's an unforced error.

You don't need to do that. If you hit some bartender for some guy who brushed up against you, unforced error. Sorry. Absolutely. What do you do? Try to finger your girlfriend on the dance floor? No. Well, then why are you fighting him?

I don't get it. Punched him to the need of a hospital. That's, that's a healthy. lunch. Yeah, it's fucking ridiculous. So this is in addition to a freshman running back who was charged with assault and battery stemming from an incident where he's accused of exchanging blows with an employee at the underground again.

And then the last week, a junior linebacker named Thad Ridgley was charged with assault after an argument over a parking space. Yeah. He's a call. It sounds like the employees of the underground do not like Clemson players coming here. They come in and act like assholes, I probably. And they fight you about it. Yeah.

So he is accused of shouting at two women for taking a space he wanted at a school apartment complex and then punching their car windows. Wow. Oh, my God. The coach said the arrests are not an outgrowth of Clemson's disappointing season. Don't worry about that. He said their arrests also aren't an indication that his team is out of control. He said nothing has broken down. I don't think we've lost control in any form or fashion.

No? What? You're under 500 and you've gotten three players arrested in a week. I think you're on the way to getting fired. Frustration is certainly there. And it might be all you too. It's it. Yeah.

So November 8th, 92, he sits out his second straight game. The newspapers are talking about this. They said that he's been arrested twice and now he's sitting out for a victory over North Carolina. and the coach said, we didn't play with Wayne physically, but in spirit, Wayne was with us. That's what the defensive tackle said, Brentston Buckner, who played in the NFL later on.

He said, I talked to Wayne personally Friday. He knows he made a mistake. He sat out this game because he felt it would be a distraction for the team for him to be out there, and he needed some time to himself to get himself together. What a guy. Wow, just tanking his draft position is all he's doing. Because he's a good teammate.

Yeah. Which makes it sound like now he's pissy and won't play because he's pissy. So, like, that's even worse than getting in trouble. That's the worst thing. He did the right thing. He did the thing he thought was right by sitting out and we got the victory. Wayne is really mature. Oh, is that what it is?

Yeah, he's real mature. He's going to come back with us Monday and we're going to embrace, we're going to embrace him as one of our players and just play on. That's what the quote is. That's why I couldn't say it. That makes no fucking sense. Let's check his brain too. Yeah, let's worry. Yeah, you have problems.

November 11th, 92, Clemson may suspend Simmons from school. So he's a preseasonal America candidate, a fucking Butkus Award, you know, preliminary guy. But he's been arrested a whole bunch. And they're pissed off, basically. Merle Code Senior here is his attorney. That's Simmons attorney. Code said that a hearing last week with Clemson's director of student development was recommended at that meeting that Simmons be suspended from school for the remainder of the semester. However, Code and Simmons have appealed that decision.

The appeal will be heard by the student discipline board. He said, Wayne knows he's made some mistakes, but we're asking for probation instead of a suspension. He already paid a penalty. Is that right? Well, he got to sit out again. So he was re, apparently, he was only suspended one. game, he chose to to sit out the second game,

which is the worst thing you could do for a protest? I don't know if that's a pro. I don't know what that is, but if you're an NFL team looking at players, you're not looking for the guy who decides he doesn't feel like playing in a game. Yeah.

That's not a guy you want if you're in a pro team. Yeah, that feels like a linebacker that hit a late hit and they find him 15 and he's like, I think it deserves 20. Exactly. I'm going to sit out two games, you guys. I deserve this.

Two games. It seems like he wanted to show the team that they would miss him. And they didn't because they won 40 to 7. I'm also a real man and I take punishment well. I'll double it. I'll double it. That's right. But yeah, he said it was a distraction to his teammates to play.

That's why he sat out. Oh. So that's all it was. He was trying to help, really. Okay. Interesting. So Simmons might be able to play the last two games of the season if his case is on appeal. So if he, obviously, if he appeals, then you can go keep doing shit while you're appealing.

His appearance in a bowl game should Clemson qualify for one. Don't think they did at five and six. Could be in jeopardy. He's already earned his bachelor's degree. Wow. He's already graduated. It has 42 tackles in seven games. November 22nd, 1992.

That was November 11. November 22nd, season ends sadly for Simmons. Uh-oh. This is bad. Wayne Simmons, collegiate. football career ended Saturday after a loss as ignominious as the day was gloomy. Simmons, Hilton Head Graduate, couldn't have imagined it would end like this in the rain with Gamecock cheers rocking the stadium and orange-clad Tiger fans subdued.

So South Carolina beat them. Yeah. Subdued that is in every way, save for their fluorescent garb, which on a sunless November day looked louder than any Clemson supporter sounded or felt like sounding. Despite the 24 to 13 loss to the gamecocks, fifth-year senior Simmons went out with a bang on the field. He tipped the pass that led to an interception and Clemson's only touchdown. He had two sacks, four tackles for a loss.

He recorded the sack that broke the school's single-season sack record. Wow. Simmons might have gone out with a bang on the field, but off the field it was another story. Why? On Friday, the day before the game, Simmons received word that he would be kicked out of Clemson University. come Monday.

Why? Take your helmet off and buckle off out of here. That's it. The expulsion stemmed from the October incident where he was arrested for assaulting a bouncer at the Clemson night spot. On Friday, his appeal to remain at Clemson was denied. Oh. Simmons has skirted on the brink of expulsion since the incident

and is lucky to have finished the season. In an attempt to strengthen the appeal, Simmons has served the school's mandated one-game suspension and had voluntarily sat out another game. They keep trying to spin this positive, but to me it's not positive. It's just not. Saturday's loss ended it all with a booming finality. Simmons and Clemson's hopes for winning a season,

or for a winning season, along with Simmons' chance to amicably part with the school where last August, this determined kid from low bottom had bucked the odds and graduated on time. I'm out, he said, on a runway outside Clemson Memorial Stadium following the game. Simpson could not have picked, or Simmons could not have pictured this kind of ending when he signed with the Tigers as a high school senior almost five years ago. Man.

So they say, turns out Simmons' last act as a Clemson Tiger was letting some kids strip him of the white gloves Simmons wore. Simmons had expected to have something more. Barring a disastrous injury, Simmons NFL prospects look good. Tommy West, now a South Carolina assistant coach. who had initially recruited Simpson or Simmons, why don't I keep calling him Simpson, should be drafted in the top three or four rounds. Oh.

And his linebacking coach, Hinshaw, said that he thinks he might go even earlier. Okay. All righty. They said judgment from his college career, his future has the potential to be a bright one. His future has a potential to be arrested a million times. Yeah. He doesn't even have any fucking money yet and he's getting arrested.

Fifth year, huh? Fifth year. Yeah. You register your freshman year than you play for. So my point is he's sticking around the whole time. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, the whole time. He loves college. January 15th, 1993, from low bottom to top of the heap.

That's the island newspaper there. Wayne Simmons' eyes pro career. So they're saying this is about an athlete who struggled in school yet put more value in earning a college degree than getting a pro tryout. It's about a son who wanted to do well, not because of the car he wanted to buy, but because he wanted to make life easier for his mother. This is a fluffiest fluff piece that ever fluffed. He wants to give money away to people that can't pay it back.

That's all he wants to do. Just let him do it. He wants to punch a woman. He might punch a Chinese kid in the back of the head. Yeah. He might punch a Chinese kid in the back of the head. That's fine. It's a different thing.

Don't worry about it. This bank is going to punch so many people. Oh, yeah. But they're going to give away all kind of money. That's how you know your loan's denied. He gets up and punches you in the back of the head and you go, oh, I guess not. It's about a kid who grew up fast who needed direction and got it from a coach, a tutor, and a local businessman. It's about Simmons who managed to buck the odds because he kept true to his goals.

His high school teacher said he's a strong person, not just physically, but character too. Ask that bouncer at the underground. Ask him. Put him in the hospital. Ask the dick sucker girl. What's up with that? Hey, Dick sucker. What do you think of his character?

Hilton had lost only seven games in the three years Simmons played varsity ball. Despite this success, the odds were squarely against him accomplishing all he has. He got into Clemson. He graduated on time. He earned a good shot at the pros of the 25 members of Simmons' freshman class at Clemson who played varsity football. Only two. Simmons and Al Richard graduated on time. On time means they got their degree in four and a half years.

Simmons received his degree in financial management on August 8, 1992. His degree required that he take courses such as statistics, economics, accounting, and real estate tax. Wow. Wow. He played his last game at starting outside linebacker for then. They said that Simmons, the season started with promise of a lot of playing time and a nomination for the Latvus Award. Yeah, he was waiting to be the big guy here. Yeah. He was waiting for Levin Kirkland to leave, and he left, and that's that. It's over. Yeah. Yeah. He registered 19 quarterback sacks in his

Clemson career, tied for fourth with All-American Levant Kirkland on the school's all-time list, behind only Michael Dean Perry, who was the William Refrigerator Perry's less famous, but almost probably better player brother. Really? Michael Dean Perry was a great player for the Browns for a long time. That's why nobody cares. So, and Chester McLaughton, which was also a big-time guy. Huge. He's amazing. Yeah. On the Raiders and all that shit. In his final game, Simmons recorded

the team's 45th sack of the season, which was a school record on a team no nationwide for his defense. So they said, in all likelihood, Wayne will be taken in the NFL draft. His linebacker coach says Simmons should be selected early. But in the last month, I think he fucked that up pretty good here. It's possible. They said a lot will depend on how he does in the senior bowl and the spring combine. It's going to be the interviews. There's where his

shit's really big. Yeah, because they're going to want to hear what he has to say about this shit. Ask him all kinds of questions. You've got to do some spleen in here. If everything works out, as coaches say, chances are good. He'll be pulling down at least a six-figure salary. Dorothy, mom, said his degree in financial management was the proudest moment of her life. She said, Wayne got a college degree and I couldn't ask for anything more. She says

that Simmons still, or they say Simmons still hasn't learned to control his temper because he's gotten arrested for assault three times while in college. That last time really cost him. Simmons was suspended for a game this fall after his arrest for punching a local tavern bouncer.

He sat out the subsequent game but was kicked out of Clemson's graduate school after being allowed to play in the last game of the season and he admits he needs to control his temper. He's been living on in his apartment near campus since his college career ended, working out on his own with teammates in preparation for the senior bowl and combine. How about that?

He graduated as a degree, was going to school further to get a master's or whatever the fuck. And they threw his ass out about it. He's not allowed to even pursue that now. Nope, can't stop punching people. They don't want him there at all. His apartment is furnished with the basics. Simmons keeps it clean.

There's no clutter, no magazines scattered about, no poster. There's no swimsuit calendars, no neon beer signs. Like he didn't clean up any signs of anything before the newspaper came over. Also, who cares? Got the naked girls out of the fucking bedroom. Doesn't say live nudes on the wall. Yeah. Jesus.

He says, I came from monetarily speaking nothing. So I don't need anything. I'll be happy being with myself with an apartment stereo and probably a car. He's never had a car in college. he said. Really? He's never had a car. He said, but the first thing I'm going to do is help my family, my mother, my grandmother,

my sister, my brother. Calm down. Chill out. That's a lot of mouths to be. You just added four people to your responsibility. Adults. Yeah. They're in their late 20s, your brother and sister.

They're fine. They better be. If they're not, that's on them. Take care of your mom and your grandmother, I understand. That's fine. So, Mom, Dorothy, said, Wayne would always tell me, Mom, if I make it, you'll make it too. Wayne is not in the NFL yet, but when that day comes, I'll shout from the top of the roof

because then that means we've gone from point A, 510 those Monday mornings to point B, the NFL. And if he made it, Dorothy Simmons has sure made it, sure enough. So I'm riding my son's coattails wherever he goes. That brainwashing sit down on the couch worked. It works. Yeah, damn. I start crying more. January 17th, 1993.

Fucking, this is a great story from the Island Packet. That's the Hilton Head newspaper there. Learning never came easy to Simmons, either at Hilton Head High or at Clemson. At Hilton Head, he was tutored by Tom Gardo in English and an SAT preparation. Margaret Gould, Simmons's English teacher in 7th and 11th grade, also prepped him for the SAT. He said, Mrs. Gould did a lot for me. I think high school, in high school I was eager to learn, but I didn't know how to learn. I didn't know how to sit down and actually learn something.

I wanted to, but my attention span was not there, and she helped me focus. He said first he had to focus on the SAT. Then in college, he had to focus on getting his degree. He said he saw what happened to players who didn't get their degree. He saw what happened to players who didn't get some fucking 19-year-old girl to write his term paper for him. He saw it. these fucking players are not doing their work. They're just not.

Right. It's frustrating. Now, especially, it's so sad. We know back then none of them were doing their fucking work and they're all on steroids. We knew that. We know that now. I am very sad for Megatron that he did not get that degree that he was chasing after. Oh. God knows where he is today.

He missed out. Yeah, he's probably, honestly, he's probably being maybe a dishwasher, I would think, in the low bottom. I have not seen him on TV in several years. years now I'm worried about. Hide nor hair. He's probably hurting. I'm sure he's hurting real bad. Yeah. So they said, he said, when I came to Clemson, I lived in a dorm free. I had a free scholarship, free meals, and that pretty much pampered me. Then I saw early on that when Clemson was through with a lot of guys, that these guys struggled. They struggled to make it. Some of them had to

move home. Some of them moved in together. It was very frustrating for these guys. So I wanted to get my degree and everything and move off campus and go to grad school and try to work on some responsibilities. Yeah. And then I punched a guy. And then I punched a chick and then I got a guy and a fucking headlock and then I hit an Asian kid with a pizza. His coach said, and as he got closer and closer to his degree, it became like a mission for him. So he said he was the only full-time starter from his class to graduate on time. Someone recently asked him what high school kids could learn from his struggles with the books. He said, I think, I think, think my growing up, my experience is a classic example of just staying in school.

Because what if I didn't? What if I wanted to work and didn't get the clothes and get the girls at the time because you have nice clothes and everything? You must understand that's just a fad. That's going to get old. Those clothes are going to get old. I don't think you can ever lose education. Yeah.

That's a good point. I mean, you can. If you dash your head into shit repeatedly. Now, the NFL draft is April 25th. 1993. So if you're Wayne, you pack yourself in peanuts, packing peanuts, and you sit

in your fucking house and you have food brought to you and leave and you never leave the house. You don't get in trouble. You have other people go to the delivery guy. April 11th, 1993, he is charged with assault and battery again. Two weeks before the draft. That shows

he has no self-control. It's over. Yeah. Because anyone could say anything to you at that point. You laugh and go, I'm being the NFL in two weeks. In two weeks, and he walk away. I'm going to have Paul Tagliabu saying my name. Nope. Nope.

Instead, he and three friends tried to get into a South Carolina bar without paying the cover charge. Yeah, he's going to try to... We're too important. So now he's got... He's sticking $5. Yeah. Arrogance and bad decision making.

Wow. When the Dorman required payment, Simmons began shouting at the man that he was white trash and a pussy. The bouncer. Yeah. So spitting on other patrons who are entering the club also. He's out of control. He's a fucking menace.

He said he and they said that Simmons and his crew started screaming, fuck this. We're going to go back there to kick every white motherfucker's ass, according to police reports. As they approached the door, some men who were in the parking lot stepped between Simmons's group and the doorman an attempt to explain that nobody wanted any trouble. Simmons, who had retrieved a pair of brass knuckles from underneath the seat of his car. He needs a weapon? Cheap cunt.

Who's the pussy now? You big pussy. How do you play in the NFL and get brass knuckles for this? Pussy. You're 6-2-250. The most chicken shit weapon on the planet, right? Oh, man. Well, it's a great weapon.

If all else is equal. this is not all else equal. You're a fucking NFL athlete. But if we're just here to throw fists and you arm the fist, you're a bitch. That's a chicken shit thing to do. I don't know.

I'm into winning, so. Yeah, but he's starting the fight. That's the difference. Yeah. You don't start the fight with a weapon. If I weigh 250 pounds, I'm not getting a weapon. You don't need it.

I'm not needing it. But either way, I'm going to win. I'm not into. This isn't, what are we, what am I a fucking, you know, about ethics? I'm in a fight. I guess I'm not losing. Period. Nobody's getting a, nobody's getting a medal of a vow for this.

I'll crack your skull up with a rock if I have to win. I'm winning the fucking, I'm not going to get beat up. I'm not starting the box cutter I keep on me all the time. I will cut a motherfucker in two seconds. Say one word. Think I'm getting my fist dirty? No, I will slice you from fucking stem to stern. It's a $5 cover you're going to pull your box?

Not for that. No, if you're attacking me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't start shit. I'm walking around smoking weed. I got no problem. I got no problem. reaching in my pocket grabbing a bick to solidify this fist.

For sure, Z's. I'm not starting shit with anybody. But if you start with me, I'll cut you. I think of, I think of, I think of, I'm just, every time I see brass knuckles, I'm just like, what a pussy. A 22-year-old, 250-pound, going to be professional. That is a bitch move. For sure. I'm not going to hit someone smaller than me with a weapon.

That's crazy. And brass knuckles are wild. That's insane. It's ridiculous. You can shatter a face with that. Yeah. And it's stupid. A roll of nickels is legal, stupid. That's what I mean.

That's why he's dumb. Yeah. Fuck that. A roll of nickels. You will knock somebody the fuck out. That's what he's the guy. Roll of nickels and a box cutter. Grab that bedpipe.

Yeah, who cares? You got to do it, but this is a bitch move. This is crazy. You can't hit somebody with a brass knuckles. That's crazy. So apparently he retrieved the knuckles. He jumped over the shoulder of one of his friends. I don't know how fucking did that.

Wow. The blow dropped the man to the ground and according to the police reports left a severe laceration and a scar on the left side of his face and nose because that's what brass knuckles do. They cut your fucking head open. Simmons and his group then ran to their car squealing tires as they spat out of the parking lot. Bitch. What? Bitch asses. One punch everybody break out?

Are you kidding me? Sucker punched a smaller man with brass knuckles and then ran away like a fucking bitch. Sucker punched the we don't want any trouble guy. That's crazy. That is, what a fucking asshole. This guy's a fucking asshole. That's scary, man. That's very scary.

This guy's a fucking dick, period. He's just a dick. 1993 NFL draft. Here we go, yeah. Here we go. Hey, here we go. We got some stats from that year. AP offensive rookie of the year this year will be Jerome Bettis.

Yeah. Defensive rookie of the year will be Dana Stubblefield. Wow. Let's see here. We got offensive player of the year that year. Who do you think it was? 93? 93.

We've mentioned him this. We've mentioned him in this episode. Oh, God damn. Really? Yeah. Was it Megatron? Jerry Rice, babe. 93, huh?

Yeah. He played forever. He was in the peak of his career. Yeah. I think 86 was his rookie year, 85. Yeah, he played until like 2011. Yeah, he kept playing and play and play. defensive player of the year?

Yeah. You won't guess. Reggie White? Rod Woodson. Oh, yeah. You're not going to guess a defensive back. Passing leader, John Elway that year. Rushing leader, Emmett Smith, receiving leader, Jerry Rice.

That's wild. Okay, number one draft pick, 1999. Jimmy, who is it? Raghabisham. It is not Rahi Bishman. It's never Rahi Bishmiel. Tell you that right now. Ever, ever, never.

93. Well, shit. It's a running back, in it? Nope. No, is it not a court. This is two quarterbacks, one and two or two quarterbacks this year. God, damn it, is it Ryan Lee?

It's 1998. Drew Bledsoe. Oh, wow. That early. Bledsoe, yeah, which was a very good pick. You know, Pat, when you think about it, they could have gotten the number two pick, who was Rick Meyerer, who was terrible.

From Notre Dame. Really fucked that up. Did you go to Detroit or was it? Seattle. Seattle picked him up first, and then he bounced around a bit. third overall is the Arizona or Phoenix Cardinals at the time. Who they picked, Jimmy? Oh, he played for 30 goddamn years.

Is it the receiver? No, running back. Oh, oh. Ah, John. No. It's on the tip of your tongue. What is it? Shit.

Garrison Hurst. Oh, shit, yeah. He played forever. Ever. Not for Phoenix, but for everybody else. 49ers and fucking Colts too, I think. Colts, yeah. Number four, old Marvin Shade Tree Jones.

the linebacker, John Copeland, Eric Curry. God damn it. Who the fuck is that? Pick by Tampa because they weren't doing well. At that time, they suck. Curtis Con. The Bears picked Curtis Conway, the wide receiver, 7th. Where right after that, New Orleans picked Hall of Famer and dead guy, Willie Roof.

Whoops. Lincoln Kennedy, number nine. How yeah. That's a going. Great. Number 10, another Hall of Famer, Jerome Bettis. Yeah. Dan Williams, 11th, by the.

That's Denver's picked that year. Defense of N. Dan Williams, that went real well for him. Patrick Bates with the Raiders, Brad Hopkins, Steve Everett. 15th overall. Stop it. Number 15 overall. Stop it. Green Bay Packers make one of the worst decisions that they've ever fucking made.

And they choose Wayne Simmons. What the fuck? Would you pick a guy who got arrested, he can't not get arrested between two weeks ago? Two weeks ago. I mean, at least. stay out of trouble for the draft. Did they not know? They had to know. They knew. Oh, they had to know. Yeah, it was in the

newspaper for grace thing. Who was picked after him? Paper. Sean Dawkins, Tom Carter, Ernest Die, Lester Holmes, Irmsmith, Robert Smith. Sean Dawkins? Yeah, yeah, Sean Dawkins, wide receiver. Oh, that's not the Dawkins, I'm thinking. Not the Dawkins. Not Darrell Dawkins. Brian Dawkins. Darrell is Chocolate Thunder, NBA.

Brian Dawkins. Both Dawkins are great. Eagles defense. back. Brian Dugans is the best. He's amazing. Robert Smith, who not the guy from the Cure, but the Minnesota running back, who quit playing when he was like 29 to go back to school, made a bunch of money and said, I don't want to

get hit in the head anymore. Yeah, I'm done with this. Yeah. Smart guy. Darren Gordon, Dion Figures, Leonard Renfro, O.J. McDuffie, the wide receiver. Dana Stubblefield, good player at defensive tackle. Crazy guy also. Yeah.

Yeah. Todd Kelly, Thomas Smith, George Teague. That's the second pick from the Packers that round. Okay. But if you went a little bit further into the second round, the number 40 pick overall was Hall of Famer Michael Strayhan. They passed on Strayhand to get this. I mean, granted, it's a linebacker, different defense, but much better guy. Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, Denver picked Dan Williams over as a. a defense event rather than Michael Strayhan too, who had 27 career sacks, by the way, as opposed to Michael Strayhan's 141 and a half. And a hell of a newscaster.

Oh, he's a fun guy. Glenn Milburn, Reggie Brooks, the wider running back. There's a lot of Roosevelt Potts, Quadri ishmael. There's an ishmael for you. Quadry went to the end of the second round. Reggie Freeman, John Garrick. This isn't interesting to people, but still it's interesting to us. It is fascinating.

Hall of Fame guard Will Shields in the third round from Kansas City And then Tampa in the end of the third round picked John Lynch Hall of Fame safety In 93 huh? In 93, yep So that's how this goes. Lorenzo Heel. 49ers owner or GM? Shit, yeah, I think he's a GM of somebody.

Did he get fired? I don't remember. May have. He's kind of a dick, I've heard. He's not a great guy. Yeah, he's been hitting the head a lot. Yeah, yeah. But he treats women like shit.

It's all right. Yes, exactly. That's what I've heard, too. Don't know for sure, allegedly. So the Green Bay Press Gazette, I guess that's their newspaper up there. They say Packers' first pick is used to hearing his mother cry, but this time they were tears of joy.

Yeah. Dorothy Simmons turned down the volume on her zenith, shushed her relatives who gathered at her Hilton Head, South Carolina home, and hustled across the living room to get the phone. She was the first to congratulate her son on being the Green Bay Packers' first pick in the NFL draft. Hi, Mom, Wayne shouted above the ruckus in Clemson, South Carolina apartment where he was celebrating. You don't have to worry no more. Oh, boy.

That's it. No, Dorothy Simmons does it, not with her son about to become a well-paid NFL linebacker. Still, after 23 years, worrying gets to be a habit. she thought of the day the precious but frail four pounds six ounce baby boy came into her world that's a small kid

she didn't think about the day two weeks ago that he just punched a person no I thought about the day where he where he smacked a girl with a hat after making dick-sucking gestures at her and I was so proud jumped over a man to punch a peaceful man

in the face god damn it of the time that Wayne got pneumonia in the 10th grade and nearly died. Of the times they'd huddle by the wood stove and hold each other to stay warm in the shack they used to live in. The roof, she said, let the rain in and the heat out. Suddenly, Wayne's voice interrupted her thoughts. It caused her to react the way you'd expect any strong, self-reliant person in her position to. She burst into tears. Oh, boy. I couldn't even talk, she said. I just

told him to call back. Wayne Simmons is used to hearing his mother cry, only this time, tears of joy. watching your mom cry all the time about the things she couldn't give you or the situation you were in, it makes you grow up. He is the least mature person we've ever covered. I'm looking forward to the day you grow up, Wayne. Yeah. Jesus. Dorothy Simmons' prayer was that her son would go to the Packers.

That's what she wanted. That's the team she wanted. I want my son to freeze his balls off and live in the smallest market of any sports team in existence. That sounds great. Perhaps if he's super cold, he'll have to wear a coat, which will restrict his arm movements from punching people. Well, she said she dreamed of him playing alongside Reggie White, whom she hopes will be a role model for her son. Boy, does he need it. All he talks about is Jesus, Reggie White.

So that would be like, great. I got to hear this fucking guy talk about Jesus for the next 10 years. He's a goddamn pastor. Holy fucking shit, man. I don't care. Pastor huge. I get five minutes in it. I go, listen, Reggie.

That's my point is that he's. I respect you. You got to shut the fuck up about this shit. Oh, my God. You have got to shut the fuck up. Sorry, Reggie. I'm going to start coming in here telling you about Satan every day and how great he is. You shut the fuck up.

Trying to support this church. I can't think of something. I'd rather have shoved up my ass less than religion of any kind. So Simmons referred to White as the legend. But better still, said Dorothy Simmons, Reggie White is an ordained minister. He would be perfect for a woman. Wayne. See what I'm saying? That's what she wants.

She thinks that's what it is. Yeah, he's going to preach him out of this situation. Part of her eagerness stems from her son's involvement in three fights during five years at Clemson. She said, the things any young man goes through. He's a good kid. He's matured. Any young man, remember all your

arrests for jumping over people and punching them and smacking girls and making dick-sucking gestures at him? Remember all that time? For smacking a woman for being offended when I made a dick-sucking gesture because she blew my friend. Do you remember beating up that bouncer? I remember that when you just fucked that bouncer up. That was crazy.

That was big. You'll have to give me more. I'm trying to heart, but I can't which bouncer, right? I can't stop thinking about the time I beat up that tiny pizza man. That's the other thing. This is crazy. So the three arrests aren't even three incidents. It's four incidents and three arrests. And God knows what didn't get reported.

God knows what he just did to people and they took it. Everybody said, don't say anything. It will beat up more. So, yeah, she said that he's mature. In 1989, Simmons said that he was fined about $100 for simple assault in an incident outside the dormitory. Tom Garto, who tutored him in high school and describes himself as a surrogate father, said some were white-black incidents and other kids were drinking. Some people don't take insults as well as others. Well, yeah.

What? But if you have a future, you have to take insults better than others. You have to be the one. Yeah. Yeah. In August 92, Simmons said he tried to keep a woman from hitting him by using his baseball cap to fend her off. After I made blowjob jokes about her. She was attacking me.

I just was fending her off. He was very terrified of her. What about the Asian pizza delivery guy? What was he doing? He was armed with a pepperonian sausage. I was still to death. I thought he had nun chucks down his pants. Is that?

What are you going to say? Yeah. Man, I thought they all knew karate and shit. I needed to get him from behind. I didn't want that motherfucker squaring up with me, hitting me with some kind of crane bullshit or something, whatever Daniel Rousseau was doing. Between him and his kung fu and that,

that man old cover, he was delivering the pizza to. I said, hell no. I knew there was four guys under there that were better than him. I might get five, beat up five different tines of karate, and it ain't happening. He said, can you believe it? Assault with a baseball cap? That's what the guy said.

Clemson disciplined him. A snowball and a hat incident. It's crazy. That's what the guy said. I don't know anything about a snowball. Two months later, he's arrested after he punched and grabbed a bar employee after the man, quote, pushed him. Meanwhile, it was more everyone else that brushed against him as he walked by. Simmons had to be pulled away by teammates.

Asked if the fight was racially motivated. He said, this town is a little counterclockwise if you get my drift, which I don't doubt. You're in South fucking Carolina, stupid. That's where it comes from. Anybody that's a racist in that area, their favorite ones, that sounds right. Play for the team. They love them. Yeah, but they still will call them whatever they call them off the field.

They'll call them that on the field. Run, N-word run, they'll say. They don't fucking care. That's what I mean. This is like hardcore deep-seated shit down here, especially this is the 90s. It's not today, although today would probably be worse, I think. But I don't know. Today it's not regional.

It's not regionally selective today is what I'm getting it. Much more blanket it. Yeah. Today, the assholes that would say that are now on the internet getting more people to say the same dumb shit. They're way more open than that. Yeah. So the one guy who knows him shrugged off the incidents and said three times in five years, that's a pussycat. Really?

So what if you got in three fights and five? five years. Arrested for three forms of assault in five years. I've never had that. I never had that with me. Pussy, what am I? Just a pussy, I guess we are. We're just pussies.

Simmons said he's, quote, no ladies, man. And isn't as, well, yeah, because you're pitting them. Right. And isn't as wild as I used to be. Every kid was wild at one time, but I've grown up and I've accomplished some things I'm very proud of. You got arrested a month ago, stupid. What are you talking about for the?

dumbest thing you've done. Perhaps if you complimented them rather than ridiculed them for their blowjobs, then perhaps you would be a lady's man. If she sucks dick, that's the girl you're nice to, stupid. High five, her. What the fun? Hi, can I take you out for a meal? There's a blowjob at the end of this rainbow.

What are you doing? Who makes fun of a girl for being fun? Give her that hat and tell her it's her crown. Yeah. You kindly, kindly young lady. You're not wearing a crown. Take this one. Oh, shit.

So anyway, he said that he's only 16 hours shy of completing his MBA as well. Okay, yeah. So his masters. Dorothy said, what I did raising Wayne is what any other mother would do. He doesn't owe me anything. You know, I couldn't give him what he wanted, but I gave him what he needed. And that was strength, strength and hope. And you know what?

We had some rough times, all right, but we overcame it. We made it. You cried in front of him. That's giving him strength and hope? That's it. And then she said, I'm sorry, but as you can tell, I'm about to cry again. She had to end the interview. Now, from the same paper, first rounder Wayne Simmons, when asked about Packers linebacker Tony Bennett,

not the singer, Tony Bennett, again, Tony Bennett, great linebacker, he said, really, I don't even know who Tony Bennett is. Who's he? That's what he said. Oh, boy. When Bennett was told a start, when told Bennett was a starting linebacker, he said, I'm kind of ignorant. to the fact. I guess I'm going to, I guess he's an outstanding player. You can't say that when you're the rookie coming in, can you?

No, you go. Anybody who's on your team, you go, oh, they're terrific and they're just great, blah, blah, blah. Especially if they play the position you play. Yeah, I don't want to have to carry their luggage and buy donuts in the morning. So, yeah, they're great. They said, does he know of any of the Packers? And he said, I'm familiar with Robert Brooks, the wide receiver. And I've seen Sterling Sharp.

Wow. How about Reggie goddamn white? Yeah. How about that? Who does Simmons admire in football? Who do you think he admires? And this is a not that this must be off the field what he's talking about. But you always look at the Lawrence Taylor's and the Pat Swillings.

Which on the field, fuck yeah. If you're a linebacker, Lawrence Taylor's the greatest linebacker in the history of football. So you would look at him probably. How do you miss him? I don't even close. This is the question. Yeah. See that blue blur going by?

that's him. And then Pat Swilling is underrated as fuck. He was a great linebacker for the Saints for a long time. Also War 56. He got, he was in the shadows. To Minnesota? Where else?

He went somewhere else too. Folling went somewhere else. But he was that, he was that, the guy on New Orleans for a long time. I'm most impressed with Jack Lambert, he said, the 70s. Murder people.

Yeah. Jack was a bad motherfucker. He was a great guy. Toothless coming action. You have to love the heart he had. I approach everything with that attitude, very aggressive, ambitious. That's how I do things. Part of that was, too, Lambert was very undersized.

So he had to do that shit. So he had to hit people hard? He had to be a reckless abandon. Was it him in the match? No. The Steelers catch. No, he was on defense. He was a defensive player.

The immaculate reception was the Steelers catching the ball. Do you think I don't know that? I'm saying, I think. He's the one that hits the guy that the ball bounced off of. That's what I'm saying. He's on defense. Yes, he hit the guy. How the fuck did he come into the game on offense and cause a defensive play?

He hit the guy that the ball bounced off of that landed in what's his name's hands. Jack Lambert was playing on offense, you're telling me. No, I'm telling you he was on defense. Then how the fuck did Franco Harris from offense catch the fucking ball? The Steelers had the ball. That's the point. The American reception is an offensive play. Jack Lambert was playing defense while the Steelers were on the field.

Yes, he was. He couldn't tip a, how could he hit the guy to tip it from him going on? Didn't he wasn't on the field? He wasn't on the field. No. Oh, that's where the confusion is. He's the fucking steed. I told you five times.

He's on the fucking Steelers. No. I've seen him in the same team. No. Jack Tatum. Jack Taitam is who you're thinking of. Same name, Jack. Jack.

We were on separate planets going, isn't it dry? And you're like, it's pouring fucking rain. And I'm like, no, it's not. What you're doing right now? It's desert. The wind just blew and a puff of dust flew in the air. What are we talking about? Everybody named Jack is the same guy in my head.

It's right. I only know one guy named Jack in the NFL. And is Jack Lambert Taylor? I'm going to fucking die. That's the funniest thing. We were so... That's the funny thing. We were like, what are you talking about?

You're like, you know, but he hit him. I'm like, how the fuck do he hit him if he's on defense? Because he played defense. You're like, because he's on defense. Who's on first? I don't fucking know. There's too many jacks on this field. That was the best accidental comedy routine that we just came up with all fucking time.

See, this is why we're good together. I was so frustrated. Do you understand that? I was so frustrated. I'm like, how the fuck is Jack Lambert on when Steelers are doing an offensive play? And you're like, because he plays defense. And I'm like, that's the point. How is he on offense?

I'm going, why don't you get it? Oh, my God. I'm like, is James, is he smoking right? I see your face, but are you? And I'm like, Jimmy, are you smoking? Are you making weed now? You're not a prod enough to smoke during the show, man. It's affecting you.

Oh, God, Jesus Christ. You got to keep in mind, James. I only have enough room for one jack in my head at the time. I got one jack. I got one jack and that's it. I don't remember if it was Jack Tatum, by the way. If ever in the future, you're frustrated, just go, Jimmy. Let's go back to one.

Jimmy Word associates way too much. There's got to be. Next time I'm going to go back to one. Jack Lambert is who to you now. An amazing linebacker for the Raiders. Then we're in a completely different. completely different space here, I think. I just need everybody on this planet to have entirely different names.

There's not more than one Jack anymore. You're going to play the same sport and be named the same name? Not allowed. Fuck you. Not allowed. We already got one. How many other Mohammeds are there in boxing? None, because that's all I can handle.

He's good. I'll never forget him. That's the greatest fucking best. That's the best bit we've ever had. It was a complete accident. I've never laughed harder in my life. I was so confused. I don't even know if I was talking to the mic at one point.

I was just like looking at you like in the eye like, what are we talking about? I couldn't believe we were friends at that moment. It's like, what are you talking about? How do we get along ever if we can't even have this normal conversation about the Immaculate Catch? Oh, God. Holy shit. Who is certainly on. first, my friend.

And he's also delivering pizza and getting punched in the back of the head by Wayne Simmons. I hope there's somebody that was listening to that going, Jimmy's a moron. How does he not understand what James is saying? Oh, God, that was horrible. I also pray to Christ that there's somebody listening that goes, what the fuck is wrong with James? Yeah, there will be. There will be. Don't worry.

There will be. There will be an equal number of people who will be like, I don't get it. That's too fun. That was so much fun. So Green Bay, on Green Bay, he says that they ask him about the town. He said it was nice. The airport was small. It was peaceful.

Not that much traffic. It's a tiny town, green bag. It's a meatpacking company. Yeah. I'm very quiet kind of guy. I don't say much when I don't have to. I like the area. In other words, I want to talk some shit, but I'm not.

I'm not going to talk some shit. Also, you know, maybe that's a telling thing that. Maybe he should be a little more verbose, and maybe he doesn't fight so much. Use your words. Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe if you're better at communicating. Yeah, yeah. Maybe if you could explain to somebody that Jack Lambert's a defensive player for the Pittsburgh Steelers, you wouldn't get arguments.

General manager Ron Wolf on Simmons said, we anticipate he could start. If that's the case, we no longer have to walk around with our fingers crossed, hoping someone will pass their physical or we won't lose someone in free agency. Mike Holmgren, the coach on Simmons, said, I think he's a great athlete. We watched every game he played, the whole staff, all the scouts. He's a tremendous athlete with good speed, a great first step. And Ron Wolf talked about Simmons poverty growing up, and he said, when you study his background, it's a tremendous credit to him.

I don't want to just annoy him. I want him to get here and play football. And then they said, Wolf, on whether he would have drafted Curtis Conway with Chicago's first rounder. He said, no, but I'm not going to tell you who, not going to tell you who it was. If I'd be very smart, I'd tell you it was Wayne Simmons is who I'd pick no matter what. Okay. Because there was a lot of criticism about the Curtis Conway pick, and for good fucking reason, because he sucked. Well, I mean, this doesn't seem like a great idea either.

No, this is crazy. So we'll talk about this season, and then we'll end off here. here. Oh. We're going to have to do two parts on this guy because there's so much more crime and crazy shit going on. There's too many jacks for us to keep and get into this all the time. 93 Green Bay Packers roster, they were nine and seven that year.

Yeah. This is like Brett Farve's kind of coming out. Starting? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think he wasn't starting in the beginning of the year. I want to say Don McCowski got hurt. Okay.

He came and started. From Atlanta? Yep. And just started throwing a Sterling Sharp on every fucking down, basically. Brilliant move. smart move. Nine and seven, the Packers do go to the wild card that year and beat the Lions, the Barry Sanders Lions, who had terrible defensive teams, 28 and 24. Then they lose to the, at the time, the dynasty of the Cowboys, 27-17, so not even that bad.

That was a pretty close game. This year, Edgar Bennett, he was young, Tony Bennett, a lot of Bennett's on the team here. Robert Brooks, Gilbert Brown, remember him, the big giant 300-something-pound. guy had his own had his own burger at burger king in green bay really had the gilbert brown that was like a 10 paddy wopper oh jesus yeah he weighed like 400 pounds he was fucking monster gilbert brucks oh that's that was his jam that's why they named it after him big motherfucker there um ooh tie detmer back yeah yikes oh yeah um he was the best uh jorns coons um we got um yeah dexter mcman okay i'm going through their it's not great huh

white, Geregy White guys like that. They had the beginnings of a good roster. They were building a team that would win that Super Bowl soon. May 2nd, 1993. Top pick can't stay. What? Okay, let's find out what that means.

Simmons not allowed to remain in Green Bay and work out a Packers facility. Why? I think because I don't think he's signed yet. Oh. Okay, yeah. Wayne Simmons prefers to stay in Green Bay and work out in the Packers practice facility after mini camp. The trouble is the.

NFL rule prohibits rookies from doing so, except during one mini camp until June 1st. Okay, that's why. It was NFL rules at the time. The rule is designed to discourage players selected in the NFL draft from dropping out and joining their new team. What? What? Oh, from dropping out of college and joining their team. If they were a scene, this is an old fucking rule.

Yeah. So they're still on track to graduate. This keeps them graduating and encouraging educate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rather than coming and playing with. Now it's like get in here as soon as we draft you tomorrow. They said, but in, yeah, in Simmons case, he has already graduated. He said, I'd like to stay up here and work out, but I have to abide by the rules.

No, it really doesn't make sense. And he said he's just going to have to join a health club on his own and work out there. He said, I'd like to get up here as soon as possible. Okay. And then they're saying in May 26, 1993, he may start for the Packers. Wow. He may start. We'll see what happens.

And right underneath that, if he does start, you can come see. I don't know who this is, but there's an ad here. The sales, Jimmy. Come see this lady. Come see me at the dollhouse. That is a prostitute probably. It looks like it. A sophisticated gentleman's club in eatery.

Very sophisticated. What's her name? Is she a porn star? Let me see what she is. That doesn't say. She's just come see me. I'm a hot check. It's the random hot check.

And this is down in South Carolina. One of the 75 most gorgeous entertainers ever assembled, over 75 of the most gorgeous entertainers ever assembled in a showroom. You know, they're all in South Carolina. That's where they all live. All the gorgeous women, you see him. It's not L.A., it's not Vegas. It's not New York or even Nashville.

It's Hilton Head, South Carolina. It's the dollhouse, really, because that's the South's like premier golf lives. Yeah. Is it? Okay. That makes sense. Happy hour from five to eight. No cover.

Well, that's good. He won't have to punch anybody then. So he reaches a deal with the Packers as well. They've reached a verbal agreement. And they believe it's to be averaging about $725,000 a year with about one-third of the $3 million to be paid out in a pro-rated signing bonus. Great. So three million bucks. He just got on to himself here.

And so he's very excited about this. they also said that they could ensure keeping him the 15th player taken by naming him a franchise player later after these contracts over because that was a new rule at the time. So it's a four year, the franchise tag, four year, because that was in that weird collective bargaining agreement where there was like no salary cap for like two years. They had a cap and then there was like none and it was this was like the end of the cap days or the end of the no cap days. Four year three million dollar contract and one point two million dollar signing bonus. And that said, let's leave it there. Oh, boy. We'll start his NFL career and his slide into fuckery from there.

It's not a good start, right? It doesn't seem, this doesn't seem wise. That's so bad. It's shocking that the Packers took this guy in the first round. Of all the teams, too, because they kind of, they like a... They're a small town team. Yeah. They like a clean cut guy.

And I think that, I think part of it is a lot of these teams get too cocky when they have, would they consider a good locker room like a Reggie White as their locker room leader and all that they think we could take anybody you know what I mean? We could take a murderer off death grow, bring him in, he'll be a model citizen because he's hanging out with Reggie White. That's not really how it works though.

Guys are still guys, you know what I mean? They're still the guy that they were at the time. So it's interesting. So anyway, there we go. We'll get into that next week here. Hope you enjoying or enjoying Wayne Simmons. He's a party, man. It's going to get worse and worse and worse. So this is where

He earns his nickname Big Money, by the way. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Here it goes. This is crazy shit. So thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this show, get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars. It is tremendously helpful. It really helps drive the show up the charts.

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Jimmy, hit me with this. names of the people who would never ever think Jack Lambert played a day for the fucking Raiders. Hit me with him. Right, goddamn now. This week's executive producers are Claude Cavallo. I'm going to call him Claude Musselman. Claude Musselman.

You're hanging out with the criterion. Is that Claude Musselman? Was that the guy in the... Claude Musselman buried in the yard? Thanks, Claude. You're an angel. Having the last words real important around here. Sorry.

Claude's a good man. Gary Howard in Oklahoma City. Get the fuck out of there. Hope you're doing well, Gary. Lisa Stevens, Amber Lounds, Elena Zemmel, and Neil Pauling. You guys are the best. Thank you for everything you're doing. You beautiful bastards.

Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows, Joanne Tinkler, Janice Hill, Willie Go-Eaten Butt. Go-Eaten But? I don't know what he's doing there. He's trying to get me to say something filthy. Something about eating a goat butt. You got to make him. it much easier than that, man. Ryan Bender.

Steffie Handpie. All right, that's a real name. Theo Rust, Holly Norman, Lane C. Melanie would know last name. Dean McAnnellty? Jasselin Jocelyn Rangel. Jared Warren. Meredith Dixon. Courtney

Harvey. Talia L. Shelby Nicole. Cindy Adams. Quinn 6. Nicky's Kid. Caitlin would know last name. Megan would know last name. April L. Laura Claire Roswell McIntosh, Hank Nitaris. Boy, oh, boy.

Troy Hill, Josh User, C-C-C-S-I, T-I-S-I, T-I-S-I, T-I-S-I, T-I-G-H-E. Is that Ty-G-G-H-E? Wornner? TIG. TIG. TIG. TIG. TIG. TIG.

TIG. T-G. T-G. T-E. Ham Ahmed. Thank you. Wendy Fleming. Courtney Summers. Mark Malon. Daniel Schmalls. Jackson LeGrand. Hunter Billings. Kylie Scott. Candice Kowalski. Mark Fazz. Oh, Faza. Favaza. Nicole Helton. Shelby Boyd. Laura Muse. Christian Grulay. Lyle would know the last name. Anthony Festa. Brandon Hernandez. Allen would know the last name. Claudia Brown. Amber Horton. Molly Cules. Jazz would no last name. Rebecca Laylor, Leffler, Connie, Connie Hanson, maybe Coney. I don't know.

Claire Powell, Leo, would no last name. Crystal Williams, Keanu Wilson. You can thank Reeves for me knowing how to say that. Becky Jean Meija, Mejaya, Majia, Maja, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya, Masha, Masha, Melissa would know last name, J.J. Howell, Sheila would no last name. Amber Rich, Lonnie Voils, Sam Horace, Sam Horace, Sam Horace, Hoy, Nicole Flacks, Alicia would know the last name, Daniel would know the last name, Amy Brighton, Andrea Adams, Clay Stoval, Danny B, Sarah Montgomery, Kyle Krulicki, Christy Miller, Mr. Nini Muggins. I know that because of your favorite actor.

Big Chetta. Autumn DePaul. Liz Durenne. Duren. John would know the last name. Chad Jones. Bridget Huffman. Lori Lee Gomez.

Steve would know the last name. Richard Winter. Stephanie Nicole. Nyosha. No last name. Cherise. Chorice Maxwell. Mason Cryer.

Carol would no last name. Camille would no last name. Ernesto Bermudez. Magic would no last name. Magic like MC or Mr. Elizabeth Tetley, Josh Foster, Janice with no last name,

Russell Friesen, Lisa Powers, Kenneth Nash, Stupid Lamb, I don't know what that means. Heidi, Rishow, Mahoney, Rekow, Lynn,

what, I was on such a roll, Brousel. You were cooking, dude, you had it. You had it. H.T. Smith, Raquel, Raquel Heigle,

Donna Brakelle, Melissa Ohana, Jody Arsino, Latoya, Love, Rusty Shackleford. Is that, that's somebody, right? What is Rush? I don't know what that is. It sounds familiar.

Is that the guy from, no, Shackleford is the neighbor in King of the Hill, but it's not rusty, is it? Is it Rusty Shackleford? All right. Corey Wector, 616, barbecue and Fab. Hannah would know last name. Laura would know last name. Amber Brandon, string cheese, my favorite snack. And all of our patrons.

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