Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “A Child Called It: Where Is He Now?” - With Survivor Dave Pelzer

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Dave Pelzer’s memoir on surviving severe child abuse, “A Child Called It,” was one of the most talked about books in the 90s. His graphic and raw descriptions of being tortured and beaten by his mother touched the hearts of millions, but also created skeptics who thought his story was too unbelievable to actually be true. Dave joins Alex to discuss how his life turned out after those 8 hellish years. Visit Dave Pelzer's website to learn more. Register Now for AmericaFest, Turning Po...

Rob Schneider, Tucker Carlson, Ali Stucky, Patrick, Bet, David, Rosanne Barr, Charlie Kirk, and Moore, December 16th through 19th. It's an all-ageous event. Your family can come, too, and you'll escape the cold in beautiful Phoenix and Scottsdale, Arizona. I'll be there, too. I mean, because I live here and also work for Turning Point USA. But hey, find out more at AMFest.com with code real Alex Clark for a discount. This episode contains graphic descriptions of child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

His story first captivated America, then the world. A child, beaten, stabbed, forced to eat his own vomit and worse. He lived in the basement while the rest of the family lived a normal life upstairs. His case is one of the worst child abuse cases in California state history, and he's been called the most visible survivor of child abuse, during the 90s. His debut memoir, A Child Called It, stayed on the New York Times bestseller list for years, selling nearly two million copies.

He has now written nine bestselling books about his life. From being a child called it to an Air Force veteran, firefighter, husband, and father himself, if you're a millennial, you likely read his book in middle school and were changed forever. If you're Gen Z, this may be the first time you've heard of a child called it. It's a short book, but one of the hardest you'll ever read. You can watch this interview on the real Alex Clark YouTube. If you've ever read this book, please leave a five-star review. Let me know how old you were when you read this book for the first time and also what you think of this interview.

Please welcome author and survivor Dave Pelser on The Spillover. A Child Called It was released in 1995, and America was, I just remember being collectively horrified. by your child abuse story. I remember people could not stop talking about it. What do you remember most about that initial reaction to your book when it first came out? Well, it kind of started way before that because in everything I do, first off, I'm a romantic about life and energy. And I appreciate because of my past everything, whether it's water, air, or especially something like clean sheets. The book was printed. I thought it was published, but it was actually printed in 1993 on the very day of my rescue, the 20th anniversary, and I was very proud to

actually give it that book to my teachers in 93. And then I had to buy myself out of a bad contract and it finally got published in 95. But it just, for everyone's sale that they had, 40 people would read it. It was just that type of situation. Then in 1997, is when it hit the New York Times bestseller list. And so it was like a slow, you know, boil per se. And it's like any of these Hollywood stories, you're nobody until you're somebody, then the world just goes crazy and so forth.

And I'm proud to say that the first two books were dedicated to my teachers. And the first book was on the New York Times list for over six years. Wow. Which average sales like three weeks. And it eventually became the number one book in the world. And now that things have slowed down in my life, you know, I kind of appreciate it. Because when you're running the race, all you're thinking about is the next race per se, your stride.

And I was proud, and I'm proud to say that I stayed very busy in Odinian service trainings for social services and foster care and teachers. And I've raised, you know, a few dollars to help out. And I really think overall, the story, it changed the equation about, you know, Everybody has a problem. Everybody takes a hit. But those people behind the scenes, like my teachers and my school nurse and my school librarian and the principal that were really trying to help me out.

And hearing their stories, because I interviewed some of my teachers where the book was printed, it just you think the stories are really about me, but you look at the collateral damage to my siblings, my parents' marriage, the neighbors, and especially those teachers, particularly Mr. Zygden, my home room teacher in the fifth grade. But when I met him, he was like Oscar Schindler from Schindler's list. He was like very emotional. He says, we should have done more. We should have done more.

And I said, sir, you don't understand. I'm sitting here because of your work and because of, you know, your humanity in a sense. And to this day, I have a celebrity photo of people I've met, you know, presidents and kings and maybe some entertainment people. But the one photo that I cherish is a photo of my teachers on the. the 20th anniversary of my rescue. Wow. To me.

Well, that had to have been a crazy dynamic being a child called it or as mother called you just the boy. You know, after a while you describe in the book, she didn't even want to say your name to being somebody who worldwide your name is known. What was that like of being unknown for so much of your life to one of the most known people in the world? It's kind of like when I talked to actually. actors and because they're trying to make the movie or the book into the movie. And the actors

will interview you. And we talked privately like, what do you think about this? Or is this, well, how was the craziest thing that ever happened to you? And I was with a very beautiful lady, a nice lady. And, and she says, what about your kid? I said, well, I was walking down the streets of Carmel, California. And all of a sudden, three women gasped and started pointing. And at the same time, my wife at the time was telling my teenage son, you know, he's 14, 15, you know, he's got that attitude. He says, your father is very well known. He's a very nice man. And these ladies were gawk and I thought, oh my God, Clint Eastwood must be behind me for goodness sakes. Of course, he wasn't. And my son gave me to look like, wow, dad, you're pretty cool. I'm going, yes,

no, be good. Yeah. Oh, that's so cute. I mean, so let's start with your story and in your background because it wasn't always bad. Your father was a fireman. You describe your mother as someone who glowed with admiration for her children. She kept a meticulously clean house at first. She did really sweet surprise gestures for her children and for your father. Tell us about the happy years and where you grew up. Well, my father was a firefighter in San Francisco. We live just south of that in a place called Daily City. And the dynamic is you kind of have to go back to how the era of my mother was raised. She was raised into depression, very controlling mother to my mother and to my uncle, very controlling. So there was, if you look at the book and read it, it's almost like watching the movie,

Oppenheimer with Christopher Nolan. You have to watch it a couple of times to pick up the little synapsis of what exactly is going on. My mother, I remember her very safeguarded us. allowed off the grass, let alone step on the sidewalk. My mother would dress to the knives when my father was home. She was extremely meticulous about feeding and ingredients, and she would run around in the car in Chinatown in San Francisco for like an hour and a half just to find a small ginger or garlic. So that tells you that's a little OCD and that's a little off. So the dynamic is, here's a husband and wife, post-World War II, raised in a depression. Now it's the day of wine and roses into celebration.

And I think they were both alcohols before we were born. And she tried, I think, to break away from her past. I found out when she passed away, you know, more of the dynamic between my, I remember my grandmother calling my mother every day on the phone, complaining, you're doing this wrong, you're going to hell in the handbasket. Your kids are hell, hell, yes, blah, blah, blah. and just like a boxer in a ring, just taking the psychological hits. And over time, I would see the glass of vodka, my mother shaking and just listening to

my grandmother, just yelling in her ear and trying to numb herself. So we all are different in front of different people. You know, we act differently. And whenever in the beginning, when my father was home, mother was very surreal in a sense. She floated, you know, she put on the makeup and the dresses and so forth. But after a while, I think, you know, things just kind of came to a head. But I always remember as a young child, being scared.

All of us were, my two brothers and I were always scared not to set mother off. That's highly abnormal. And I think you saw in the book or read in the book, I was four. My dad was away. Mother had been drinking all day where the three of us were cooped up from bad weather in the room, maybe making too much noise. And we can hear mother stomping down the hallway. my two brothers glide past her.

I'm blocked, and she's kind of hitting on me and loses her balance. And my accident pulls my arm out of the socket. But then the next day, the next morning, she's, oh, my goodness, you don't know this, but you fell out of the bunk bed. I tried to catch you. We're going to the doctor. And the doctor knew it was a lie. My father, as a firefighter, knew it was alive, but no one set a thing.

So that set up the dynamic. and it just got worse and worse and worse. And so my father would come home from his shift and would always say, how are the boy doing? What did David do now? What did the boy do now? Well, you're never here. You don't understand.

He's being punished. So he's like, okay, because the dynamic back then was and brought home the bacon. The women took care of the house and the household, in the sense, including the children. So you got to see that separation. Where your dad, you're saying there was a separation where your dad was like,

I'm doing my duties outside of the home. And so if he would try to come in and ask like, what's going on or whatever, your mom was like, you have your domain, I have mine, kind of a thing. Exactly. And then she would guilt them. Like, you never hear. You don't understand. This child is a helion.

And this is my household. And that was mother's big thing. And she got that from her mother, of course, you know, that she runs the house and everything in it. And I do remember it got to the point I was maybe nine or 10. And my father was home still in his duty uniform, and my mother wanted to shove some ammonia down my throat. So this would be twice in 24 hours. And I just remember trying to breathe.

And my father has a drink in his hand, and he's leaning down looking at me and says, what is going on here? And my mother just fires back. The boy is trying to steal some food. And my father drunkly says, well, sweetheart, if you only fed the boy, maybe he's, he wouldn't steal so much. I'm like, oh, my, really? So that's when I kind of knew, you know, my father was just hypnotized.

And the more we would try to, to confront my mother, the more she would explode. So, you know, you're just a rat on the wheel in a sense. And it's very sad because my father was a very gentle person. And as a child, I thought I will do anything to find and capture my mommy's love. If I did the dishes, if I didn't breathe, if, you know, I told. took a few hits. I just wanted my mommy to wake up. And you saw in the book, a child called that my mother and I were both separated because I was David, then the boy, then it. And then there was mommy, the mother, and then a name that I don't want to say in public. That was very bad.

But it was very dark for me. And I just had to come to the point after being stabbed. And I had to take care of this wound that I had the pus coming out. I had to come to the dynamic that I'm alone. I can't change the external part, but I knew on the inside that I was very, very strong and that I would not quit. And I think that helped me when I was rescued at age 12. I weighed like 64 pounds. And I didn't speak because I wasn't allowed to speak. So I had to learn how to do that. I had no hygiene. I had nothing. And thank God for social services and foster care. I just recently discovered that a lot of these period tracking apps now have a feature where you can share where you're at on your cycle. So your partner knows when you're in the follicular phase

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and a portion of every box sold goes towards fighting human trafficking in Nepal. I know you want unique stocking stuff or ideas? Look, put a box of Garnu tampons in there for your cute, servative daughter. Find out more at Garnu.com with code Alex for 15% off. That's G-A-R-N-U.com with code Alex for 15% off or find everything in the show notes. So what did your dad think was going on all day while he was at work? I think he just numbed himself because it got to the point that he would go out with his friends after a shift, being firefighters who are rough, tumble guys, and maybe come home drunk or just stay out of my mother's way. Because he would always say, you know, one of these days, David, you know, I'm going to talk to your mother. One of these days,

I'm going to put my foot down. One of these days, you wait one of these days. And like a child, you're going, oh, my God, yes. And I would pray for one of these days to come. And it never did. So it really killed me on the inside because you always think, I mean, my father, was like six foot 18 inches and jet black hair and had muscles and he's a fireman. He's like a real, real time hero. And to see, you know, the, the drinkiness and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and I heard my father in the living room, reading his paper. And I just stood in front of him, and he hides behind the paper as blood is dripping on the carpet. And he says, you know, don't, I said, mother stabbed me. And he says, get out of here. We don't want any more hell here tonight. And I'm going,

I could not believe that. Because to me, he was like Superman. And suddenly my superhero just vanished. and I remember a couple years later when my mother and father separated, and she gives my father this box, this entire life is in this cardboard box and it's soaked with the water. And I just wanted to disappear. And I almost ran away, but I just didn't have the strength to do it. And it really affected me. At the height of your abuse, what did your brothers think about how your mother was treating you? Because you described their life was pretty normal, but then it was like,

you received all of the abuse and they got none. And that's kind of, it's a dynamic called target child selection in which the perpetrator or pedophile will just go any mini money, Hey, Mo, you happen to be it. It's almost like the trauma in junior high. You just ask this girl out for a dance. And what it was in the beginning,

that my brothers would confront my mother. What's wrong? Why are you punishing David? And the threat was, you better be good. Otherwise, I'll give you the same medicine. So it's like, I'm sorry, better you getting smacked around than me.

And then it got to the point that my mother would brainwash my brother. It's like, oh, David started a fire at the school, the school that you're going to right now, really? Or David shot somebody or David's a horrible person. And then my mother blamed me for my parents' separation. So that's why in the end of the book, you see that bully dynamic, you know, how they would hit me and so forth and vent. And again, this is normal in this. dynamic. And that's why you saw in the book and you were very smart to say that. I went from David to Boy to it because it's hard to understand, oh my God, I'm killing my son. I'm killing

my daughter. So they disassociate themselves, just as I disassociated from mommy to mother in a sentence. And it was very, I mean, I would look at my brother's eyes in the beginning. They would make a mayonnaise sandwich open the door that led to the basement and throw it down the sandwich. and like a day or two later, hey, did you get that airmail sandwich? I'm going, thank you so much, which meant I was alive because I was so devalued. I felt I was like less than zero. I was allowed to have any eye contact with my family. I had to hunch over and walked down.

And it got for the point my brothers would actually just go through me as if I was invisible. And that's what really pained me the most because my two brothers and I in the beginning were very close. We took care of each other, especially, you know, guarding each other. Was there any one friend at school during those years of the abuse that you had or just isolated at home and school equally? And yeah, I was totally isolated, but then I brought it upon myself. I mean, I'm very embarrassed to this day because I used to go down and visit my teachers on the 20th anniversary of my rescue. And once a year I would do the whole county, visit juvenile halls and, you know, do the Dave show, you know, seven days. Oh my goodness.

And to this day, I cannot look at or receive my classmates because I'm so embarrassed. You have to understand, I wasn't allowed to bathe. And I had yellow, waxy skin. I wore ratty clothes with holes in them. I would steal their lunches. That was a good thief, though. I was very compassionate. If they had enough ice sandwich, I'd only steal half the sandwich.

But if they had Twinkies or Ho-Ho's, I would steal that. and it got to the point that they placed me by the door because I would smell so bad. Sometimes kids would regurgitate on sight. You were kidding me. No, it was, it was very, very bad. And I'm just so embarrassed about it. So I understand, you know, how I was teased and taunted at school for obvious reasons. You know, because again, I'm the food thief.

And I remember one time, I don't think I've ever told this story. It was the last day of school when I was in tears because I loved school. It was a sanctuary. for me. And this girl runs in and tells her mother, who happens to be a teacher, oh my God, I'm going to be in your class next to your mommy. And then Ms. Constan, the teaches is, oh, good, because my friend David Pelser needs a friend, you know, and he's a good boy. And she went like, ah, I don't like David. He steals and he smells so bad, Mommy. And it was normal for me. It was so normal. And I'm so embarrassed about it to this very day.

I went to Miss Woodworth. It was my English teacher. And she was one of my guides about writing because I used to take home books and read them in the basement. And my mom wouldn't abuse me as much because it's like, I'm so stupid. I got to do homework, which was a facade. And one time she said to me, Ms. Woodworth, my English teacher says, you know, you write great book reports. You should think about being a writer. You should write a stuff.

And I was into Robinson Caruso or the man in the Iron Mass, these adventure stories. Well, it makes sense because you were able to transport yourself when you are living in the dark basement, the coal basement or the dark garage by yourself. You're able to read these stories and put yourself somewhere else and be somebody else. I fantasize about escaping, you know. And yet when I went to Miss Woodward's funeral, I felt like I was floating because they did a funeral service. And they said, would anybody like to say anything? And I felt that was on this carpet. And I said to the audience, I said, you know, there's always one kid in the school that needs extra help. And everybody's like, oh, my God, that's Dave Helser. And I just said, you know, Miss Woodworth was such a guiding light, such a force.

And even like Mr. Ziegler, he was six foot, 18 inches with the first male teacher we've ever seen. He was very clean he's with ask. He had that rough voice and he's got eyes in the back of his head. And one time he said, you're doing a good job, Pelham. or you keep up the good work. And I told him that score 20 years later. He said, son, I don't remember that. And I said, you can miss it.

I do. And it made a difference. Yeah. It's like these teeny tiny things that adults do when they interact with children who could be going through hell, you know, at home. We don't realize how those teeny tiny things just like keep up the good work kid could totally matter.

And you kept that with you for your whole life because you never heard one single positive word of affirmation for years at home. It was, you know, it's a complete opposite. You're worthless. I wish you'd never born. You're the devil spawn. Blah, blah, blah. But I knew, again, on the inside, I remember when my mom burned my arm on the gas stove, and I was thrown down in the basement when my brother came home from a boy scout meeting. And it was very weird. And I, and I put that scene in return to the river, in which I'm, for the first time, I'm purging. I'm crying. And I realize, I'm a good kid. She's got a problem. And upstairs, she's hugging my brother. Oh, you're such a special child. You know,

you're a beautiful child and you're going to do beautiful things. And I remember looking at my arm covered from the palm of my hand to my bicep. And by coincidence, I rose it, I raised my arm and it hurt that pain from the blisters. And I said, from this moment on, I'm not going to quit. And I'm going to give everything my best shot. And there's all these turning points in life. and I call them tumblers. When you meet someone who says something to you, it's small for them, but you can absorb it like a sponge.

And it may not be anything to anybody, but if you can receive it at the right time and the right place, it can build you up. And it's always like you said, the small things, not when I get a million dollars, I'll be happy. Once I get married, once I have a kid, once the kid moves out, blah, blah, blah.

It should be five, ten times a day, a nice cup of coffee, talking to a beautiful lady, going outside and looking at the blessed nature that we have, or every day we don't have COVID. Every day our kids come home from school without a shooting. It's always small things that can build us up. I'm trying my best to try to teach my parents everything that I've been learning about

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And what was going on when your mother was trying to convince you to lay on top of a hot stove? It was the first time that I really figured out, oh, my God, this is crazy. I came home from school. My brothers were both from them at a Boy Scout meeting. I thought my mother was going to drive me to the meeting. And she said that she stated that she went to the school to see her two children playing. I'm going, okay, your math is off. You have three kids.

But, you know, that's her thinking. And she says she saw me. She says, I saw the boy rolling around on the grass like an animal. And I remember pointing at my pants not soiled at all. So it's an obvious mistake, although wake up. And then she said, I read something in the paper about how a boy was burned. You made my life hell. I'm going to show you what hell was like.

and I remember she held my arm over the stove for, I remember trying to count and trying to scream. I wanted her ears to fall off because I'm a kid. And then she said, I want you now to strip and lay down in the gas stove and burn for me. And this is important because I'm already conditioned. My chin is locked to my chest. I'm not allowed to move unless mother snaps her fingers, I'm allowed to look at her face, but not her eyes. I have to have my hands glued to the side of my legs. And I just remember when she said she wanted me to burn, I thought, oh, my gosh, I was looking to do something, but I was just paralyzed with fear. And out of nowhere, I hear this dragging electric sound of the kitchen clock, the secondhand moving. It was dragging like rust,

you know, on a nail. And I thought, oh, my God, very quickly, my brother comes home at four o'clock. minutes to four, I got to steal some time because she doesn't act as crazy when my siblings were home. So I'm supposed to have one second to stand up after she smacks me around. I took three seconds to stand up because my arm was burned. I would lean on it out and fall. And then I was so smart. I would stand not three feet in front of her, but I would take a half step back. And then I committed the ultimate crime. I would talk to talk to her. And because I didn't speak very well, I stuttered. I just stuttered more.

She hits me. I fall for the floor. I take 30 seconds to stand up. Because you were baiting her. You were saying, okay, I'm going to do everything that I know pisses her off

so that she'll keep hitting me because I would rather be hit than have to lay on top of the hot stove. The dynamic was, and this is very important. The brain is incredible. If you see something for it happens, the body will follow that motion.

Hence, oh my God, I think I'm going to be sick. Your body says, okay, let's be sick. oh my God, I'm depressed. You're going to be depressed. I'm happy. Okay, I'm happy. So I learned that very quickly. And I, again, you said it perfectly because I was kind of baiting her in a sense. And like anything, when you're vaps against the wall, either you're going to do something, you're going to freeze, or something's going to happen to you. And I was only

eight years old, but that was so important because that gave me that dynamic afterwards that, hey, I'm going to steal food. I'll learn kinesiology in a sense and put myself into a ball when she hits me. She'll go left. I'll go right. So I was always thinking ahead. And I was able to use that dynamic once in foster care. And it worked great for me.

In the military, I was, oh, my God. And even like as a former fire captain, a few years ago, I was a fire captain. And you have all these things going on. And I'm going, okay, let's do this rather than that. What do you mean? I can't explain it, but let's do this. It's like you learn the art of self-preservation in a way that most people, you know, never have to do, I think. Yeah, and it was amazing.

I remember being in one of these military, paramilitary schools called Airborne Jump School. And there's, I remember there was 1,700 young kids. And we only graduated 164. And I had this friend of mine, he was tall, dark, brown skin. The ladies loved him, you know, and I just wanted to be Biden because he was a cool guy. And he was like Letterman and did everything perfect the first time. And the drill instructor, blah, blah, blah is in his face and he's in my face. And I'm going, whatever, I've heard worse.

And he dropped out because he had never fallen down before. He had never crawled on glass in a sense. And I like it when people say the N word to me. The N word for me is no. You can't do this. You're stupid. You're dumb. You're not.

You're awkward. or that I'm going, I'll be back. You know, I would always find a way to make things work because I was conditioned as a kid. And another quick story, I remember when I was in foster care, they had this psychiatrist. He looked like Doc Brown from back to the future, the hair.

And he said, there's no chance for David. The abuse was too long. The isolation. He has no social skills. If anything, this kid's going to be dead in jail by the time he's 20. And I remember thinking, if I can survive all that I did without,

any help without any training, boom. And you have to have that inner strength. Your mom would invite Cub Scouts over. And so you had all these other kids come into your house for Cub Scouts. And you recalled how sometimes those kids would tell you, because your mom was able to put on this fake persona of a loving mother, those boys would come to your house and they would say, oh, Dave, I wish my mom was like your mom. When they would say things like that to you, not knowing that she was burning you, she was beating you, she was starving. you when they would leave. What was going through your mind? I mean, and I'm sorry, when I hear that, and I haven't heard that story in years. I mean, as an adult now, you know, as a grandparent,

I kind of laugh going, oh my gosh, to me it was more terrifying because mom would have this, this thing again, you know, she would float across the floor. She had the perfect flower garden. Everything was perfect. Oh, Mrs. Pell's, you're the best. And I'm thinking, and I was thinking of myself, the more you feed her, the more she's going to be angry at me. in a sense. Like every time my father would try to confront my mom, I'm going, don't do it, dad, because when you leave, that's it for me in a sense. You had this idea on the way to school sometimes to go to neighbors and say, I forgot my lunch. Do you mind giving me something my mom forgot or I forgot? And eventually one of them called your mother up and said, hey, Dave keeps forgetting

his lunch and stuff. And you knew when you got home that day, it would be over. And I got to tell you, That was probably what I call Albert Hitchcock scary because I remember coming home and mother told me, okay, you know, Alex is called and da-da-da. And I thought, okay, I'm going to get a whooping right now. But she didn't do anything. And I would do the chores and she'd be right behind me. And to me, she was like I was ready for the COVID to strike. And then at the end of the day after her children went to bed, I'm in the bottom of the basement.

And I can't, I mean, I'm not allowed to sleep on the army cot. what was my bed at the time in the basement. And she said, oh, come upstairs, you know, and I thought, okay, are you going to feed me? You're going to beat me what's going on? And that's when she poured a tablespoon of ammonia into a spoon. And I thought, really? That's all you got, whatever. And then I swallowed it. And right before I swallowed, she says, I hear you're a fast runner. You better move fast on this. She says something like that. And that's when my tracheage just collapsed. And what happens is I was trying to breathe and that collapsed it more. And I thought I was going to die.

Hence the next day, she did it in front of my father. But I was just terrified of when she would strike. I remember one time she would have me stand in the back of the basement by this little slot that they had mail. And it was so cold. And I only had like raggedy shorts on and a raggedy T-shirt. And my mother would always flick on the light to come down the stairs to get clothes. you know, when my brothers were taking a bath upstairs. And I would always listen when the family

wasn't eating because I knew I would come upstairs and do the dishes. And one time I fell asleep by standing up because I was so tired. And I didn't hear her come down the stairs. And I woke up and she was right behind me and I practically, you know, just urinated on myself. And from that moment on, I never slept in her home. I was always terrified of where she was at and what she was doing and when she might strike next. Others are going to be lames and re-gifting crappy gifts that they got from other people the year before. You'll be bestowing juicy burgers, crispy bacon, tender chicken, and phenomenal steak

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dishes and things and taking the trash out at night, you would go through the garbage to get their, you know, food that they had thrown out so you could have a couple bites. And then she thought, well, I'm going to purposely spoil meat so that you will eat bad hamburger meat or whatever and get sick. Like she would think to do this kind of stuff to torture you, I'm wondering with the with the ammonia and the rotten meat and everything, how do you think she thought to do this kind of stuff. I have the only thing I can say, and I have to be, you know, a gentleman about this. Well, you don't have to.

You don't have to. Well, I'd rather take the high road because so much has happened to me. If I turn dark, particularly at this age, I'm done. Yeah. Done. And I will be like the Terminator. I will not quit. I will be the terrorist.

I will just not yield in a sense. There's a saying in psychology that hurt people. hurt people. So you have to look at her dynamic. It's a learned behavior. But I will say this, and I think it really sums it up. I was in foster care. My first permanent foster home, it was the Catansas, Rudy and Lily and Lillian Catans. Many years had passed. And the second book, the loss point was doing, it was on the best seller list as well. And I'm really worried about people, oh, Dave, I saw you in school or Dave this or Dave that. I won't take those calls. So one of my senior staff members gets a call from Ms. Catan.

And says, oh, David was, you know, he was always into everything. You know, we, you know, just running around riding his bike. And he said, I met Mrs. Pelser twice. I remember all my foster kids and all their parents that come over to visit. And she said, God strike me down. Mrs. Pelser was absolute evil. Why do you think she said that? She said that.

And I kind of was like semi-listening. and I remember the staff member crying and Ms. Catanz was crying. And I thought, oh my God. Because when you're in that dynamic, you don't know how bad it is or how good it is until you're out. I mean, for me, like I said,

every time I eat, I cherish it. Every Friday, I have Clean Sheet Friday. I mean, I have, I have, it's like Tom Hanks in the movie Castaway. I have ice. You don't know until it's taken away from you and then maybe given back. So all I have to do,

is forgive my mother, and mainly not for her, but for my son or for me and my health. And I know she's, you know, in heaven, hopefully resting in peace. I believe I'm the most blessed person I know. Because think about my life. I was the worst case of child abuse, and I become the state volunteer of the year. I have no coordination. Can barely speak. I used to speak four languages.

I do comedy. No coordination. A high school dropout, low scores. because I was transferred to all these different homes. And yet I'm flying top secret missions for the United States Air Force. I have the Jefferson Award, Outstanding Person of the World Award, lotted by presidents, you know, and doing good work, hopefully. And then at age 52, and again, that romance, I became a firefighter.

Three years later, I'm a fire captain. One of my biggest girls was one of my, I did two districts, not connected, and I got to be a fire captain in the Russian River. And that's why I'm broadcast it to you now. My lifetime goal was to return to the river, because as you read in the book, that's when we had good times. My mother and I had two magical moments. The Russian River, the sun was setting. It was so beautiful.

The sky is orange, laced in teal. And you can hear the rippling water. It's green. And my two brothers were running around with my father, and I bumped into something. It was my mother. And she pulled me into her chest. And I thought, okay, what's going on here? And for a moment, we were just one.

And all mothers are beautiful. And I remember her hair, you know, smelled nice. And I can actually feel her heartbeat. And that carried me. That carried me for so many years. You know, when I would be dark, I would just fantasize about, you know, the Russian river. And I had the opportunity during COVID to move back to, I'm broadcasting to you, not even 100 feet away from where our old cabin used to be.

You know, I mean, I tried to make it happen. It was a lot of luck. And that's what I try to say is these little tumblers at the right time at the right place happened. Yeah, the cabin, that's so interesting to me that you now live near that because in my opinion, that was the most horrific part of the book was the abuse that took place at the cabin when your dad and your brothers all went and they were all going out to do some stuff by the lake or it was something like that. And your mom said, no, Dave's going to stay with me. Could you talk about that day? And I mean, that's interesting to me that you choose to live near that spot. Yeah.

And remind me that once you tried to kick me out and I was going to run away to the Russian River, I was going to go underneath the Golden Gate Bridge at age eight with no clothes, age nine, and somehow find this town I didn't know existed. And I was going to hide out under this bridge of the Russian River. But what it was, my youngest brother at the time was a baby. and my father took up my other two brothers. And she basically, I've never told this story. I'm not sure how to say it because I'm trying to be a gentleman here,

but she took a sole diaper and just rubbed it in my face. And she kept it there and I couldn't breathe. And unfortunately, it went up my nasal passage, and unfortunately I swallowed some of the fecal matter. And the sad part is we never returned to the river after that. and before things got very crazy, it was almost like a truce. When we're at the Russian River, we all got along.

And I always wanted to keep that dynamic going as a child. But then as soon as we got home in Daily City, when dad was gone, she'd flip that switch, and I was back in the basement. And it was really terrifying for me. I got used to it. I was conditioned to it. And he also read in the book, like, one time,

she came into my father's bedroom. I was sitting on my hands, trying to stay warm. And she said, David, it's over. It's over. And I thought, okay, you're going to kill me. What's going on here? And she bathed me, you know, top the bottom. And you know, you're a little boy, you're a little embarrassed to be naked in front of your mom. And she gave me clothes that I've never worn before. This was springtime. These were Christmas clothes. And we went out as a family, went bowling. And in the very next day, this beautiful social worker comes over, takes me through her side and says, does your mother ever hurt you? Is your mother ever saying,

Are you scared to your mom? I'm going, oh, my God. And I said, I screwed up. I said, only when I'm bad. He's fantastic. And, okay, thank you, Mrs. Pelser. Bye, bye. So it was like, that's what, that was the thing.

She said, I'm going to, I'm going to give him the greatest day so that he will feel guilty then to be able to disclose his abuse when the social worker comes. It's more diabolical because, like, she made sure I had long sweaters, again, Christmas clothes in springtime. Yes. So she, other barks or bruises or, well,

what happened to his eye? Oh, these clumsies going through a face. He ran into the door. He ran into the bat. Okay. And the thing was, as soon as the social worker left,

I mean, she's cutting me the shreds, taken off the clothes, showing me that, beating me up and stuff like that. And how dare you say that? And it was really a weird dynamic because my grandmother

would always say, you know, after the book came out and whatever, like, did David really good abuse that bad. And her mantra was, I'm not saying it happened. I'm not saying it didn't. Well, then what the hell are you saying?

Yeah. And yeah, she would say to me, oh, you didn't get stabbed that much. You weren't, you weren't, you weren't beating up that much. And I'm like, well, that's your side of the street. And yet she was the one who confessed to me as an adult who called CPS. Wow. She called CPS? And it was weird because I thought my father did it, the teachers did it or the neighbors

did it. And because what I did when I was a young man, I was involved in flying for the air, force and I was a counselor in juvenile hall to help out. And I was studying psychology. And I had the chance as a young adult, a new father to interview my own killer. I interviewed my mom for four hours. And when you interview someone, it's basically three, no more than five to seven questions. And you just kind of ask them in a different angle, the scene, you know, how the story, you know, hold. And I will never forget this at the very end of the interview. And I felt like I was being bombarded by radiation. I'm just getting tired. I dropped my keys on floor deliberately,

which lowers me, and I turned to her, which makes her above me. So psychologically, she feels superior. And I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I kind of stuttered. Like, was there a time that we, we could have, it could have all, and she, you know, and I was doing body language, 70% of all communication body language. And she just jumps into, oh, that we could have gone too far. And she says, just like this, David, David, you have to understand. They took it away from me. It was March. It was March of 1973. And you have to understand, David. I was planning on killing it that summer. The only problem I had, David, was where to hide its body, David. Now, when I used to teach in service training and psychology and abuse, and that's what we call it double negative. She still

sees that animal as a non-human entity. She's talking to you. And describing yourself as a child as a different person, she's saying, David, I was planning on killing it. Yeah. And she said the only problem she had was where to hide its body, David. And because I really thought, you read a child called it and then returned to the river. My last 24 hours with her, I really thought she was going to kill me the march of 73 because my parents were separated. And more importantly, my uncle and auntie were going to take my brothers. I was supposed to go with him, but she said a week before that to my grandmother,

oh, I think the boy's coming down with a cold. I wouldn't want them to affect, you know, get the other children sick. So he's probably going to stay this weekend with me. And I thought that was the weekend she was going to kill me. Because if you reread, the first chapter is called The Rescue, I couldn't sleep that night. I couldn't sleep at all because I thought it's going to happen any second. She's just going to, she would strangle me to the point that I thought my eyes would pop out and it burns. where she would beat me for 30 seconds rather than 20.

She would push my head down in the bathtub for 20. I would count. I would count. It was just longer and longer. So I thought this would be the snap weekend. And yet, because I remember I couldn't do my chores on time because my motor schools were failing. I wasn't sleeping.

I wasn't getting enough nourishment, enough rest. And because of that, the dynamic was she had to drive me to school. And she told me, oh, give them a story. give them a story. And here's the big question. I had no idea why I was rescued that weekend until I finally interviewed my teachers. And they told me, it was very sad that I, Mr. Ziegler, again, my homeroom teacher, he said, son, you came into my school with no skin on your arms. And all of a sudden I flashed back. And I said, sir, uh, uh, uh, uh, the gray black patches. He says, yes, because the Thursday prior to Friday, my mother had put my limbs in a mixture of ammonia and

chlorox. Oh my gosh. And I forgot to rinse off the solution because I had to do the chores and the hope of getting a goddamn piece of meat for dinner. So you had whole chunks of your arms just burnt off? It just

burns the skin. And it's the weirdest thing. I cannot describe it to you, but the fact that I recall just about everything that happened to me, but I didn't recall that instance until 20 years later. And Mr. Ziegler says, yeah, you were peeling these patches off your arm. And basically,

another dynamic I had to go to see the nurse once a day. People at the office call me the bloodhound now. Anytime that we're filming on location, if there is a plug-in fragrance somewhere in the house because usually we're filming at Airbnb's, immediately upon walking in the door, I smell it. And I have to find it and unplug it or I can't film in there. It's all because I've started lowering my toxic load as much as I can.

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So what I'm confused on is how this abuse was able to continue on for so many years if this many adults clearly knew what was going on. Is it just because the way that we handle child abuse now is different than the 70s? That's exactly it. The first reported case of child abuse was by, oh, my goodness, an animal doctor. I don't have a good vernacular at the moment. He reported it because I said, well, if you harm an animal, you can go to jail for that. That's a class three felony. And we are animals.

We're mammals. We didn't have what's called PC punicose to protect children in the early sense. or those trying to protect children in the early 70s. My mother, again, was the PTA director, you know, and she would call up Mr. Hansen's school principal at least several times a week saying, if you'd sue anything, if you say anything, I will sue you. I will sue the school. So she was like Godzilla in a sense.

She's just destroying everything in her path. And that's what, it was amazing. When the child called it hit stride, I would get hate mail. Like, where's your mother? I'm going to take her out. I'm going to find her. I'm going to beat her up. And the other side of the hate mail was against my teachers and nurses. They couldn't do a damn thing. Nothing. And that's what killed them.

I found out years later, they would have these little teacher parties, you know, and whatever, go out and have a drink, whatever. And sometimes they would just cry and cry and cry. One teacher was fired because of my mother because she was getting too close or sticking her nose in someone else's business. when she read the child called it and lost boy, she called up and she said, I was fired for intervening in a private family matter,

and I was going to come and she had a VW bug. She was the cutest thing, long hair, listen to the Beatles. She was a haughty, okay? And she said, I was going to kidnap you and take it to Mexico. And I said, why the hell didn't you a woman, okay? Yeah. Resources back then. And it just haunts me that it just affected them

and their family dynamic. And again, some of their kids went to school with me. Right. What was the most difficult scene of your abuse for you to write? The hardest chapter to write was, I think, a child called it chapter three. I think it was called Bad Boy or the Bad Boy. Because I kind of slowly had to change my mother, who I really believe was beautiful on the inside and just gorgeous on the outside.

And I had to slowly change her, you know, that dynamic. And again, when people look at the child called it and read it slowly, They say, oh, my gosh, she's got OCD. She's a closet alcoholic. You know, she's staged four monster. Did you ever find out as an adult that she did have any type of diagnosis for, you know, mental illness? It didn't. My mother was raised, and I remember my grandmother saying this, is that, you know, problems, whatever happens in the house, stays in the house.

You have to look for those mantras, you know, those sayings in the sense. My mother was raised to put things in the box. It didn't happen, get married, have a few kids, and everything will work itself out. But as I always say, cancer never goes away. Cancer always comes back in a sense. And so you think about raising through, here's the dynamic and people didn't really pick up on it. My mother had three babies in less than four years. You know, and the medicine back then is radically different than it is now.

So do you think maybe you're saying she could have been struggling with some postpart? with you? I believe so. I truly believe so. And then you have to look at, again, being raised in depression, surviving World War II, Dave, Vaugh and Roses. And sooner or later, the party stops in a sense, because my parents were kind of party going. So my auntie told me when I was a young man that my father would get off work, my mother and him would show up at their house. And they would party from like Thursday morning until like Sunday evening nonstop. Because, you know, you're just having fun. So you have to see, you know, the depth of this and all the little things that went to that relationship. At the end, you described your rescue and how you're sitting in this police car driving away from the school.

The police officer had called your mother or someone had called your mother and said, Dave's not coming home today, Mrs. Pelser. And that you're sitting there in the police car after your rescue and just a single tear falls down your cheek. What was running through your mind? I'm free. And what I think on a broader scale, you know, that I existed, that I was real, that I had value. I'll never forget, it was lunchtime, and they actually forgot to feed me in the school, they forgot to feed me. And the kids were playing outside, and they're like, David's busted, Pellzer Schmelzer's going to jail.

And this beautiful police officer, you know, this kind of kneels down and says, says my job to protect and serve. And today I get to protect and serve you, young man. And it kind of gets me like that little salute thing. I think this is important for people to understand when it comes to working with abused children. Did you ever miss your mom once you were put in foster care? Oh, my goodness.

I missed her terribly. And I had this amazing, beautiful goddess. Her name was Ms. Gold or Ms. Golden. And she was my social worker. And, you know, she had to get me to finally purge. And I felt, I even told her, I says, I don't want a rat on mom. Why is that?

Why is that important to understand why abused children would miss their abusive parent? Well, because again, you're a child. You're thinking, what did I do wrong? And I was conditioned. I'm the reason why they separated. I'm the reason why she drinks and so forth. And I just remember missing her,

but at the same time, I was a scared little rabbit when I was finally rescued and they had to take me to the hospital. The police officer, I took him by the hand and said, do not leave me, do not leave me. He said, son, she doesn't know where to hell were at. I said, please, in the first like 60 days in the temporary foster home, I mean, I would go to the bathroom. I left the door open because I wanted to see what was going on. But at the same time,

too, I missed my beautiful mommy. I really did. And I can't really explain that in a sense. We've had situations where, you know, people are kidnapped and yet they fall in love with their captors. Right. And it's an actual thing, you know, it's not a make-believe thing. Because it's, I think part of it is to you know, you want to feel that sense of value. You want, you want maybe that sense of closure. And because I've worked a lot of cases where adult children were abused and they want to have that dynamic with their mom. And I said, your mom is a different person.

Your mom is in different place. Because I catch when people say, you know, I miss my mommy, but I hate Kathy. I'm going, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I do. Because, you know, you've kind of been there in a sense. And even to this day, you know, I have both my parents passed away. My father was actually, the worst thing my mother ever did

was leave my father in the hospital for four to six months and didn't tell a soul that he was dying. And he was all alone. And I got to the point when I finally saw him. I was 19 and the Air Force knew about death. And he gave me his badge. He couldn't talk with his eyes or his mouth. But he gave me his badge. He was homeless. and I finally had to be a big boy. And I called up as firefighter brothers. I called up my uncle and said, this is happening.

And they said, we didn't know. And I cannot forgive my mom for that. I just can't. I was curious if you've ever forgiven your parents. Oh, I forgive. See,

I'm trying to be honest here. I want you to be honest. And it's okay if you haven't. I want the honest answer. I want to be honest, but I'm trying to again, you know, the gentleman's gentleman here,

at the end of the day, I mean, I totally forgive my mom. I really do. And I wrote, and I got a lot of, you know, there's questions and so forth. And I wrote this in the last part of Return to the River. There's a scene in which my adult character as a fire captain wearing my badge and my father's badge that I wore when my son was born and meet the president, running in the Olympic torch thing, anything that was special.

Every Air Force flight, I carried my father's badge. and there's a scene at the end of the book in which my character has a fantasy about my father. It's like, where the hell were you? You always said you would be there. You always said next time, next time. Where the hell were you?

And I just kind of like, you know, it's like a boxing, psychological boxing match. And I had to get that out of my system because I thought, you rescue children. All you had to do is take my goddamn hand and walk out the door. You know, I don't mind if we're homeless as long as we're together, Dad.

There was a very, there was a thread in return. turn to the river and I play it out like a Christopher Nolan scene, you know, because Nolan does things in threes. He's a mathematician. He's so great. There's a thread in which I just want dad to take me with him. And I'm in the car. They're separating. He's got the box. And I'm finally, oh, my God, my parents are over there with the kids playing in the rain. And there's a scene in which my hand is on the lever to the door, the station lighting. And I'm finally, and I'm finally, oh, my God, my parents are over there, the kids playing the rain. and I was going to open it and flee.

And I thought, this is my chance to escape. I'll hide in an alley. They'll never see me. And by coincidence, my father appears and closes the door. So my argument with my father was, did you know I was opening the door and I was going to run away or what you thought it was just an accident? I need to know.

Because you think about barriers, the newspaper, the door, me in the basement where they're upstairs, having their drinks, all these physical and psychological barriers. And I just, to this day, I have a hard time forgiving, Dad, because he would rescue kids from burning buildings. You know, he put himself at extreme risk. His body was broken doing his job.

And then me being a fire captain and the firefighter, the most horrific fires we've had since 2000, oh my God, 2017, even before that, I'm proud to say, I played some small role in these situations, floods, fires, and I can understand the dynamic, oh my God, we see great people on their worst day. And I always told my team, hold it together. We're here to serve. That's it. That's all. You do what you have to do when we're done with the scene. And I can understand my father's complexity. But I just do not understand why he just didn't step up and take me away. Hence, Superman died when he was reading the paper when I was stabbed. And that really had an effect on me.

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one of your brothers said, well, this book belongs in the fiction section. Your first wife even struggled to believe your story. A doctor said, well, he couldn't have swallowed ammonia because he wouldn't have survived. He would be totally disfigured if that would have happened. What is your response to that? You know, back then, you know, I wasn't trying to be a pleasaholic, but I didn't want to rock the boat in this sense. But looking at it now, that's this stupidity.

One, why was I suddenly rescued and placed in the immediate temporary father? officer care. Why was I made a word in the court? Miss Constan, the first line, there's like endorsements. But Ms. Constan said, my fourth grade teacher, God bless her. She said, in my 27 years of teaching, I've never seen a kid so abused. Mr. Ziegler wrote a perspective in a child called It. It's amazing, you know, and I can understand now. I just talked to a lady yesterday. She said, is there going to be any blowback if I get this book published? I said, absolutely. One, the people who say it never happened. Two, they're going to watch your money. And three, when you run out of money, they're going to say you're a loser.

So I can understand, you know, like, wow, that really happened. What is your relationship like with your brothers now? Well, one of my siblings had passed away. And I was just talking to one of my siblings, not even right before we got on. He's a little sick right now. We're not in this dynamic, either the siblings are close or they're not. Yeah. And we're not exactly close.

And it was hard for them because they had to come to the realization. that, oh my God, mom is killing David. And then when I was out of the house, one of my brothers was abused, was smacked around. And he finally said, no, stop it. You touch me again. It's going to be bad for you.

You know, because they were used. They thought, oh, my God, I might be next in a sense. And there was some tension because I was rescued and they were not. And I fought or I didn't fight, but I tried my best as a young person in foster care, trying to get my brothers out. but my social worker said, we can't do anything unless there's a report filed. Even when you were removed, she didn't continue to abuse them with one of them.

She stopped. She went to my eldest and he was, I think, 14 or 15 at the time, I mean, old enough to make decisions. And he's the one who said, stop. You touch me again. Well, I was thinking that she was thinking about killing you. She was probably also thinking he gets older. I mean, she's raising boys.

You guys are going to get stronger and become men and be able to overpower her. You know, she only has a certain timeline of being able to overpower physically young men, you know. You eventually married and you had children. What is it like for someone who knows very little love in their life to fall in love? Well, one, I was as a teenager, my body was just physically slow for obvious reasons. I didn't hit puberty, I think, until maybe 19 or 20 in a sense. So I didn't date because I was a foster kid, I was proud to say I was working about 20 to 40 hours a week. Pardon me because I learned once you're 18, you're kicked out of the system at the time.

It's different now. So I thought I don't want to be homeless, so I'll work. So I saw my friends or kids in school, my peers, you know, the drinking thing or smoking marijuana and, you know, racing the cars and chasing girls. I thought, that's the stupidest thing in the world. I'm going to work. So I didn't even discover the opposite sex. I never dated. And I did date when I was in the Air Force.

I was an air crew member. I was new to that. And I dated a girl, a lady who was very kind. And we eventually became married because she was pregnant. And she had a bad history too. And we thought, okay, a negative times a negative is a positive. We thought we got this locked up. We know what not to do.

And I'm very standoffish at time. And trust in intimacy is a big thing for me, you know, because for obvious reasons, and yet I will never forget the first time I hold my son, who I named after my father, Stephen. And for there, he just flourished because I remember teaching him how to throw the ball as I'm learning to catch the ball because I didn't have, you know, a lot of dynamics and, you know, motor skills and so forth. And what's great is, even right now, I've got photos of my young grandson.

There's Stephen and I at the World Series. Stephen was my security agent, and I got the National Jetty. Jefferson Award in Washington, D.C. He's all dressed up looking like he's Secret Service. Okay, come on. And it's great to have this dynamic now because, you know, he likes whiskey. We'll have a shot of whiskey and we'll sit there and not see a damn thing. Or to take to the places that I used to go to as a kid.

You know, that's the big thing. And it's, again, I keep saying over and over, I'm so blessed. I'm so blessed. And I think sometimes we forget where we came from, you know, or we forget how bad things were. there's a sentence, those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it in a sense. So I try to every day, do three nights. My program is I do three nice things a day. I try to make people feel down.

I do three times a day, make them laugh three times a day. Because I always know where I come from because I do have, there's parts of me, even to this day. I have a hernia and a trachea. And I remember I got an exam and you have to swallow like radian or something. then they see it go down in your system. And I remember the doctor says, okay, here's what you're going to do. One, don't smoke your cigars anymore. Don't drink.

Don't drink this. Don't eat that. No tomato paste. No, no, no. I'm going great. There's bread and water says, well, and they said, whatever you do, don't do any public speaking because it's going to mess up your diaphragm. That's why my voice kind of changes pitch every once in a while.

It sounds like I'm on a sports nager Jr. Or I feel like this scraggly old man. So everything for me, at times, is an issue. But I can kind of make it look normal. Yeah. Because everything has something. Well, and that's something I think a lot of people have questions about is in extreme cases

of child abuse, like what you went through, you know, what that process is like for integrating a child back into regular life after being rescued from a situation. I think of, you know, a recent case is the Turpin Children, the House of Horrors in California. That was another California child abuse case that made national. news. Like what, what do you think life is like for them trying to become normal people after never being normal people? It's weird because the word, there's no such thing called, there is no such thing as normal. Normal parents, normal, it's normal. It's just life in a sense. And that sounds, oh my God. But for them, we now have, because I'm very familiar with that case,

we now have in place, you know, therapists and counselors that can be with them for years and years and years and we can put them in a dynamic that they feel safe and integrate them to per se, you know, function and so forth. But it's a lifetime thing. I'm at the point and I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm going to be 63 in a few weeks. And yet I don't feel 63. I don't act 63. My grandson, I get in so much trouble. And I always blame him for it. Say, I'm just following the guy. Okay, forget about it. But again, the changes that we have then, or in my in my time that we have now are so different. And I think to, you know, as long as they feel valued and we do it in slow steps,

and it's like that movie Minority Report. We had the three siblings in this tank. And then when they finally were freed, they were living together and just reading. Like I say in this dynamic, you get closer or you kind of splinter in a sense. But all I can say is it's a lifetime thing because at age 63, what I know now, particularly in my heart, if I can go back in a younger body with the brain and the heart that I have, I would, oh my gosh, you know, you always say I would do things different or I would say something or what have you. But I'm at the point I'm right now in particular.

I'm not coasting, but I'm smiling a lot more. And I think that's so important. You know, I always tell people when you're going for a hard time, it's only for the now. Right. You know, get through the denial and the anger, get through the bargaining, go through the depression, but then you have to have a sense of acceptance. But I'm at the point that I just want to be of service, listen, hell, because I know what it's like to be nothing. Well, you've absolutely done that. And I think what you shared is very important to remember that there is no such thing as normal

that you, after experiencing something like that, you still have consequences or struggles, I should say that you have to overcome with your throat and things like that. People are just like, well, he's just normal now. He's just living a normal life. Like, you know what I mean? Your life is the absolute best thing,

I think, that you could have ever dreamed to make it. But you still have things as somebody who overcomes abuse that you have to work through, which is, I think, an important reminder. but you have how many books? Nine. Nine books. Nine books.

And we had, I have this, because when you're doing something and you're just so busy, you can't appreciate it. But I was, I think, the first author that I have four books simultaneously on the New York Times. That's where I'll live. I remember going in Japan and you're not on billboards. When you make it, you're on buses. And there was a photo of me, this gentleman, he was the Annie Lennibis of Tokyo.

He has a photo of me walking. and there was a bus and I'm on the bus and I kind of go, oh my gosh, that's me and he snapped it. You know, and that's kind of nice in the sense. But, and I appreciate it more now in a way. And I appreciate some of the adventures I've been allowed to have. And I appreciate what I would have been trying to do. I'm a little bit more, you know, vocal now because part of the problem is I did not do interviews because I didn't want to do interviews per se. But I remember they said, Dave, where are you at?

I said, well, I'm spending my summers in Iraq. Okay. Or Dave, what are you doing? Well, I was a firefighter for about nine years and then another three years somewhere else. So what I'd like is, you know, at my age, it's about staying busy, mentally, physically, spiritually, and keep moving. And that's why I say I want to be an ambassador because I can help. I can do something. I can have a voice, you know, I can have a direct connection.

I'm proud to say in my time, I would buy wings for foster homes, a wing to a house. a wing to a house. I bought automobile and vans and I made sure hundreds of kids got to go to Disneyland and have money

to buy things and do things. And I've served in that capacity, but now that things have slowed down, I'm able to serve in a different function.

I really, I believe now I'm making more of a difference than it was back then. Yeah. And I talk until, you know,

God takes me home. But I'll go, and I always do it with a smile. Well, Dave, I have never stopped thinking about your story since I read your book when I was in middle school, you live in the hearts of so many people around the world.

And I believe that your story has really been a game changer for people on how to spot and look for children in our community that need our help. Thank you so much for sharing your story on the spillover. And I have to say to you and your audience, I want to thank you because here's the way I look at this, your young lady. And imagine that the next three to five, 10 years the voice that you're going to have, helping out women in need or children that want to have a sense of value and so forth. And I want to thank you for your work.

And I would love to do another show with you. What we're going to do jokes, okay? Because I do a great Clint Eastwood and I do a great. I'm a Schwarzenegger for you. Right? And we'll get you to the. Yes. Thank you.

Have a great day. And Merry Christmas, by the way. We can say that now. Oh, is that word? We can say that now. I've always been saying it. Well, I've always been saying it. But I just mean like, you know, it's Christmas time.

Like we just had Thanksgiving. Yes. I know I'm still burning those calories. Yes, and beauty. All right. Well, thank you so much, Dave. God bless. Bye.

12-year-old Alex would be beside herself if she knew she was going to get to talk to Dave Pelser. Another harrowing story of overcoming severe childhood trauma is season four, episode 27 with Victor Marks. That's M-A-R-X. It's called Drowned, Electrocuted, and Tortured as a Child. You can just type in Spillover and Victor Marks into any podcast app, and you can you, You'll find it if you haven't listened. The next two weeks of the spillover are absolutely fire. We aren't slowing down the heat for the holidays.

We're turning it up. Next week, I am talking to a very well-known rancher who has sounded the alarms on how fragile our current food system is, how corrupt the meat industry is, and exactly how to find organic local meat and produce on a budget. Trust me that the bombs he drops are epic. I actually heard him on another podcast that I really like listening to, and I had to have him on because I was on the edge of my seat for what he had to say about our food supply chain in America. It is unreal. Then I am dropping a grenade the last week of December with a clinical psychologist who believes SSRIs are placebo that they're not healing your depression and anxiety, that they're actually making it worse. If you struggle with mental health or depression and even ADHD, this is a very.

a can't miss episode that will challenge everything that you know about these conditions. Tooteloo, tutelie. The spillover is back next Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific, midnight Eastern. Anywhere you get your podcast, don't forget to subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube to watch these episodes and leave your five-star review. It's my Christmas wish. I'm Alex Clark and this is The Spillover. Love you, mean it. Bye.