Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - Canceled By Science, Now Running It: Dr. Jay Bhattacharya Brings Humility to the NIH

Episode Date: January 3, 2026

Question the science and you’re labeled dangerous. Do it anyway — and you end up running the NIH.Dr. Jay Bhattacharya went from being smeared as a “fringe epidemiologist” for opposing COVID lockdowns to leading the National Institutes of Health at a time when trust in science is collapsing. Dr. Bhattacharya addresses scientific dissent, free speech in medicine, the real fallout of lockdowns, chronic disease, environmental health, and whether the NIH can be rebuilt to serve the people — not the institutions.Thank you to our sponsors!ZEBRA: Use code "ALEX" for 10% off any orderCOZY EARTH: Use code "ALEX" for 40% offAGENT NATEUR: Use code "ALEXCLARK" for 15% offJOOVV: Get an exclusive discount on your first red light therapy orderCROWDHEALTH: Use code “CULTURE” to get your first three months for only $99/monthTOOTHPILLOW: Use code "ALEXCLARK" for a FREE video assessmentOur Guest:Dr. Jay BhattacharyaDr. Jay’s Links: NIHXINSTAGRAM👗 Get Alex’s freshest fashion picks and exclusive guest recommendations—delivered straight to your inbox!Sign up for the newsletter HERE:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WEEKLY NEWSLETTER SIGNUP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FOLLOW ALEX:Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠@cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.DISCLAIMER: This content is for informational purposes only and is not medical advice. Always talk to a qualified healthcare professional for any health-related questions or decisions.

The mandates for the vaccine, the COVID lockdowns really shattered trust from the American public in the NIH. Why is this version of the NIH different than the one that failed them? I've seen what the NIH can do to help create a cadre of scientists who actually want to learn the truth and help people. But at the same time, you're right. The trust is shattered. I think the NIH is worth saving. And I think it's savable. We have to make sure that the work of the NIH actually translates, over to better health people. We actually have to use science to make America healthy. The problem that went to happen is that you had a few people at the top of the scientific food chain

getting to decide what everyone else thought was true. What happens when questioning the scientific consensus gets you labeled dangerous and then puts you in charge of the very institution that tried to silence you? Today's guest has lived that story from co-authoring the Great Barrington Declaration to being publicly dismissed as a fringe epidemiologist, Dr. J. Byrink. Batacharya now sits at the helm of the National Institute of Health at a moment when public trust in science is fractured and fragile. In this episode, we talk about dissent in medicine, free speech and science, COVID lockdowns in their fallout, chronic disease, environmental health, vaccines, and whether the NIH can truly serve the people again rather than the

institutions that fund it. Dr. Bata Chari is a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and the director of the National Institute of Health with a background at Stanford University and decades of research in population health and medical policy. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. And don't forget to pause, leave a five-star review for us and tell everyone why this is your favorite podcast. Please welcome director of NIH Dr. J. Vodacharya to Culture Apothecary. The first thing I want to start out with is just congratulating you on the news that at the time we're recording this came out yesterday. We're filming at America Fest.

And yesterday this news comes out that we're doing all of this incredible work working with, transitioners and really incentivizing hospitals to stop mutilating children. Can you kind of talk about that? I'm the director of National Institute of Health. So let me just focus on the science to start, because then we'll talk about what the policies was. A lot of parents were told that if they didn't let their kids transition, meaning homeroblocking, you know, sort of mastectomies for girls, you know, a whole whole bunch of like irreversible surgeries. If they didn't let that happen, that their kids were going to commit suicide. That's a form of blackmail, in my view.

And the reason why I say that is because there was never any scientific evidence of any value of rigor that actually demonstrated that. Doctors were telling parents that on the basis of nothing, nothing real. Or they would tell patients and families that if you, oh, well, you can do hormone blocking and you can block puberty and it's reversible. actually that's not true like especially if you do it for sufficiently long time it's not reversible um and so on the basis of scientific lies we basically put parents in a very difficult position and especially for kids that are troubled you know teenagers are difficult for everybody i think um and so you can understand uh there'd be kids that are like having a tough time and especially when there's

like social media these like social contagion that's happening and then you have the power of science supposedly telling you you have to do this, let the kids transition or else are going to kill themselves. That's how we find ourselves where we were. And yesterday, there was a whole suite of announcements by Secretary Kennedy with President Trump's full backing saying, we're not going to let this happen anymore. How did you feel hearing that? I was absolutely thrilled.

I mean, again, let me just stay with science and we'll talk about the policy in second. To me, the perversion of science, you. I mean, I'm a scientist, I've been in science, I entered science because I want to do good for the world. I was in favor of making America healthy for the last 40 years of my life. That's the purpose of my career, more than just America. And I think the idea that science could be used

to essentially harm children, it's just, it's been a tragedy to watch. I mean, of course, this happened during COVID as well, with the lockdowns and the school closures and so much else in the name of science. of science. It's been just devastating to watch. And it felt so good to be part of an announcement an administration, a set of policies that's seeking to reverse that, at least in this case of detransitioning. Do you think as a scientist that having humility when it comes to science is crucial? And do you think

that Bobby Kennedy is doing that, bringing humility back to science? You can't be a good scientist without humility. Yeah. I mean, I just, just to be blunt, if you are a scientist and you're always right, you're probably a very bad scientist. I mean, you have to, you have to, like, challenge the conventional wisdom if you're scientist in places where your expertise says, okay, this isn't, this isn't right. And then let nature decide, let experiments decide, let reality decide what's, what's right. And, you know, as a scientist, it's very common that you'll have ideas that when you test them, they're wrong.

There's nothing wrong with that. That's actually good for a scientist to have that. It's kind of a strange blend of like, Uber confidence that you know, it's right, but then humility when you see data that contradicts it, that you change your mind. I mean, that's the easiest way to always be right. So how do you reconcile? Who is it, the American Academy of Pediatrics? Is that, am I thinking of the right group that is really against these recommendations? Yeah. What do you think about that? Once upon a time, I actually had a lot of respect for it. During the pandemic, they were all in on closing schools. Now,

how is it that a pediatrics group that supposedly represents the best interest of children was advocating to keep close, schools closed, when there was no scientific evidence in favor of that. They were all in favor of mandating vaccines, the COVID vaccine specifically for kids as young as young as six months old, where the risk benefit ratio didn't actually warrant that kind of. And then for detransitioners, I mean, I challenge anyone who's actually from the American Academy pediatricians look at the evidence. Like there's been reviews in Scandinavia, in the UK, and now this amazing report that Secretary Kennedy ordered out of HHS in the United States, all documenting that scientific evidence doesn't support the AAP

position. Really? Yeah. What is it exactly that Bobby Kennedy is saying we're going to do with detransitioners? Well, a few things. So on the clinical front, if hospitals are going to engage in this process, we're going to stop paying them. Like Medicare, they'll lose all Medicare payment.

Like they're, these, I mean, just to be blunt about this, we are going to remember this as one of the darkest moments in medical history. 100%. I mean, kind of like we think about like frontal lobotomies. We used to like recommend those once upon a time. Some might even recommend it to me now. I don't think so, Alex. I don't think so, Alex.

But, but yeah, I mean, those kind of like dark, dark episodes in medical history, I believe that we will look back in, in the fullness of time. and say, well, this was one of those, dark moments in history of medicine. And so we're just, we're just hospitals that do this, they're not going to get, they're not going to get money from the government. We're going to start, at the NIH, we're going to start doing research on helping detransitioners like Chloe Cole, who's actually at this event announcing this, because, you know, I don't want the, the doctors and patients and families to be making decisions about detransitioning based on bad

evidence either. We need to have gold standard science. You asked me earlier about Bobby Kennedy. He is surprisingly humble, actually. I mean, I've had arguments with him, arguments, you know, with him about scientific matters where, like, you know, we learn from each other, right? It's actually kind of neat. He'll change his mind. You know, I think that you have no choice if you're going to be doing science or talking about science.

You have to understand that no one, no single person on earth knows everything. When you got into the NIH and you were really looking at everything and, and, you were really looking at everything. and how it's been done for, you know, years and years and years before you. What was some of the most shocking, jarring things that you kind of came across that you were like, how, how is this happening? So I was a professor at Stanford. Until 2020, Stanford is a fantastic school. Until 2020, I had a great time there, just doing my thing, the scientist. In 2020, there was essentially like this huge pressure to, like, fall in line with the lockdowns.

And the people who didn't, you know, people like Scott Atlas, a man named Johnny, who I believe is one of the best scientists on Earth, Michael Levin and Nobel Prize under, we all got tremendous pressure from the administration to stop, stop talking. That is a violation of academic freedom, and why is that important? Because academic freedom, if it actually exists,

group think can't exist. What I found at the NIH was that scientists, the NIH had to get permission from the director, in a way, or the sort of the bureaucracy, if they were sending scientific papers out for publication. Like, I mean, that's just shocking to me, right? I fully expect there will be scientists at the NIH who will write papers I don't agree with as the director. Sure.

That's a good thing. That, to me, shows integrity. You have to accept the fact that I can't know everything. And so I have to accept the fact there may be scientists that will find things that I don't think are true now. But if I look carefully, I'll believe them. Or maybe I won't. I don't know. I mean, so I put in a policy where they don't have to ask that kind of permission.

Were they excited? It's funny. I'm not sure they trusted me at first. They were like, this is good, this guy is crazy. Yeah, it's just because like they've been so long under this regime where like if you said something that the leadership didn't agree with, you weren't allowed to publish the paper. That's not science. It's not. Let's talk about this story I overheard in Pilates because apparently we need a public service announcement for spouses everywhere.

This chick is talking about her stinky husband. She says he's a walking biohazard smelling like a mix of gym socks and cheese. It's ruining their intimacy and she doesn't know how to fix it. I'm like, so you're just standing there, doing nothing. Doing nothing to fix this. How can you stand living like that, honestly? Like somehow this is acceptable behavior for a human being? It's not.

You cannot just marry a stinking man child and pretend the world won't notice. I almost threw my personal zebber deodorant at her. The only clean deodorant that actually works. It's for men and women. Aluminum-free, paraben-free, fragrance-free, goes on smooth, not chunky, smells amazing. two formulas with or without baking soda. So even if your husband has the constitution of a toddler who hates soap, Zebras got him.

So do your job, Mrs. Pilates, buy Zebra. Save your husband's dignity, your nose, and maybe, just maybe, humanity. Go to yayzebra.com. Use code Alex for 10% off. That's yay, zebra.com. Code Alex, your friends will judge you less, and your husband might stop clearing a room. I realized something was wrong when my hairbrush looked like a crime scene,

not thinning, vanishing, like my... hair had joined a startup and quietly folded. So naturally, I panic. I researched collagen and discovered most brands are running a seed oil Ponzi scheme. They take one bag of collagen, fluff it up with gums and oils, don't list it on the label and call it wellness. That's not beauty. That's Enron. That's why I use Agent Ateur's Holy Main, known as the Hermes of collagen. Two ingredients, that's it, wild-caught deep sea fish in saltwater pearl. No fillers, no oils, no chemical escapees. It's non-agglomerated, tested for heavy men. metals, and it meets strict European standards, which already tells you it's better than anything

made in a strip mall lab. Unflavored, tasteless, throw one or two scoops in your smoothie or coffee or matcha or milkshake. Boom, 15 grams of protein. Hair skin and nails handled like an adult. Now, let's talk about thinning hair for both men and women. You should get Holy Growth 84. This is a leave-in scalp spray by Agent Nautour. It's non-greasy. It uses redenzel and spermadine science words that basically mean more hair less shedding. Sprits morning and night takes 10 seconds. 84 days later, you look like you made better life choices. Your hair is looking glamorous and growing.

And for my nervous system, also got to recommend their calm beauty. Agent Atour's calm beauty, cherry-flavored little satchets, no melatonin, no knockout, just calm mood, sleep, longevity, fewer gray hairs, fewer existential spirals. I drink it in sparkling water like I'm pretending everything's fine, okay? Go to Agent Atore.com. use code Alex Clark for 15% off. You can use it on anything on their website. Those are just three of my favorite products.

That's Agent Atore.com. Code Alex Clark for 15% off. When people hear the Great Barrington Declaration today, what does it represent to you? And how did it change your life? Oh, it changed my life entirely. So for first, the Great Barrington, just some context. The Great Barrington Declaration,

I wrote it with Martin Kuldoff, who was then at Harvard, who got fired from Harvard because of the vaccine mandates. And then Sunnetra Gupta of Oxford University. She's one of the top epidemiologists in the world. Three of us wrote this in October of 2020. And I'll tell you, this is the one thing I'm the most proud of in terms of my work as a scholar, as a scientist, is the Great Banton Declaration. But it is also the least original thing I've ever written.

Why do you say that? Okay, so here's what it said. It said, look, it's October 2020. COVID's been around for many, many months now. We've already seen the harm that has been done to closing schools for children. You know, suicidality is way up, depression, anxiety. It's done huge damage to the poor because of the economic damage and the dislocation caused by the lockdowns. The lockdowns are disaster.

So don't do them. No lockdowns. But we also know that older people are vulnerable to the virus. And we're not doing good enough job protecting them from the virus. Like we have to protect nursing homes better. Let's use what resources we have to protect older people from the virus. At the same time, let younger people and other people who are not. vulnerable, live their lives because the harm from the lockdown is worse than the,

than whatever increased likelihood of getting the disease is. That is the way we handle all these respiratory virus pandemics in the past. I mean, if you go back in time in the United States and around the world, we protect the vulnerable and we don't harm the less vulnerable. That's how we've done every other. That's the normal standard playbook. The Great Barrettian Declaration was just a restatement of that normal playbook. In hindsight, why do you think this happened?

Was it a red herring? Let's throw something crazy out there to really scare people into not voting for Trump? I mean, what was that about? I mean, I think there was some political aspect to it, but this was worldwide, Alex. Yeah. This was happening literally everywhere.

It wasn't just about the president. Imagine that it's October of 2020. And in March of 2020, you are one of the top scientists in the world running an agency like the NIH or the WHO or something, and you've recommended lockdown. And you're watching all around the disease is spreading anyways.

The lockdowns are starving the poor of the world, causing havoc to working class populations, to children. And you're thinking to yourself, you know, well, we, it's like communism. Like, you know, I'm sure you've heard with people sometimes they'll say, well, the problem of communism, it just hasn't been tried yet. Well, it has. It's been tried and tens of millions of people have died as a result of it, right? You can never get it pure enough.

So they're essentially, the leaders, many of the scientific leaders of the world were doubling down. on a failed policy because they wouldn't admit they were wrong. And to do that, they had to create an impression in the public that all scientists agreed with them. And so that's why the Great Barney Declaration was such a threat to people like Tony Fauci. Because for them, scientists from Harvard, Stanford, Oxford,

saying this is wrong meant that there had to be a debate. There had to be open-mindedness. There had to be discussion. And that was the last thing they wanted. Do you think that criminal charges against Fauci would be justified? I mean, this one's tough because I believe very strongly in forgiveness. I do believe in justice. I mean, if he did something that broke the law, let the DOJ decide that.

I don't, I mean, I'm not going to, I wouldn't, you know, gainsay that. Of course, you know, there's a presumption of innocence until you're proven guilty. I believe you're strongly in that. From my part, as a scientist, what I want is an honest scientific discussion. I think that actually has a bigger impact on his legacy than, you know, going to jail would. Like if you had it on a scientific discussion that said, look, this was a, this was these lockdowns, the vaccine mandates and all that were a tremendous mistake. And Tony abused his position in order to push them and push scientists aside so the debate couldn't happen. That's a huge black mark on his reputation.

He'll go down in scientific history as having essentially abused his power to stop science from like, doing the thing it's supposed to do. Francis Collins called you fringe, that you had dangerous ideas, you now lead the NIH. What does that moment reveal about how dissent is treated in science? That's really sad for me, because I had and have tremendous respect for it, Francis as a scientist. And of course, he's also very famously, he's also a Christian. Yeah. And so it was when I first saw the email that he'd written about me, calling me and my great

Declaration co-authors, fringe epidemiologists. You know, Sunetra Gupta was one of the very top epidemiologists in the world. Martin Kuldorf, who was one of the very top biostatisticians and epidemiologists at Harvard University. I mean, it really shocked me. And in that same email, he called for a devastating takedown. This is October 2020, just a few days after we wrote the declaration. That led to, like, vicious, media smears about me. I wanted to let the virus rip and kill people.

Like I spent my life trying to protect people from, it was very sad. But I've had the chance to like break bread with him. I had breakfast with him. We prayed for each other. I mean, I believe in forgiveness. I can't live my life seeking retribution. I mean, I think if you, if I live my life seeking that kind of vengeance, it'll destroy me and I won't be able to accomplish things. I think are really important.

And that is to restore science to where it should be and actually use science to make America healthy. What role does free speech play in medicine and what happens when it's suppressed? I mean, you can't have medicine or science without free speech. It's not an accident that the United States is the world's leading power in science. It's because of our tradition of free speech. When you have suppression of free speech, what you end up with is groupthink and the role of politics on scientific outcomes, it becomes paramount, right? Just look at the old Soviet Union, right? So there There were biologists, a very powerful biologist named Lysenko in the Soviet Union who didn't believe in Mendelian genetics.

And he got Stalin to throw scientists who did believe in Mendelian genetic, which is really a true theory, in jail, into Gulag. And as a result, people starved in the Soviet Union because the agriculture stagnated. That's what happens when you have no free speech in science. It's messy, right? People are going to disagree. people are going to criticize each other. But that's much better than the alternative.

Some people question the legitimacy of Maha because they say, well, President Trump loves Diet Coke and McDonald's and KFC. So this can't even be real. He doesn't actually believe in this or care about this. I have my theories. I want to know what you think. Do you believe that President Trump really believes in Maha,

even if he doesn't necessarily, you know, abide by every single Maha principle himself? I mean, if Maha were a sort of like, authoritarian, everyone's like watching behind my back of what I eat, do I exercise the right way, no one will want it. Right? I mean, it's actually, it's, Maha is, is to help set you free. It's not to enslave you.

And President Trump absolutely is a huge fan of Maha. Bobby tells me that he gets calls from President Trump almost every other day. And they just talk about Maha. They talk about like, you know, what's the cause of autism or, you know, I think the president genuinely wants to make America healthy. Okay, I saw the funniest. I was like in tears laughing. The funniest quote from President Trump,

maybe ever, ever, to me anyway, is he was asking AIDS or something. He said, he wanted snacks. So he said, okay, bring in the poison. And then they bring in this like basket of snacks. He picks what he wants. He goes, okay, take the poison away. I was like, look, that's proof right there

that Bobby Kennedy is having at least some sort of influence on him. No, he is. I mean, there's a really funny picture from, I think it's like January, 2025. And they're on like a President Trump's plane. And it's like Bobby, Elon, the president, I think was Don Jr. Yeah, they're having McDonald's.

They're having the look on Bobby's face in that picture is absolutely priceless. It's so funny. But you know, I mean, the thing is it's not, again, not it's not like a you must do this or you're a bad guy kind of thing. It's like here's what the scientific evidence says for the tools to keep yourself healthy. 100%. And I mean, I'm like, guys, if President Trump wants to eat this stuff, fine. You certainly don't have to. I don't choose to.

Bobby doesn't choose to, you know, unless he's being hazed on a plane at 2 a.m. Or whatever. I'm just kidding. But, like, he does recognize and listens to Bobby when he says that there is a chronic disease, epidemic with children. We need to get to the bottom of it. Look at the stats. Look how sick children are. We have to do something.

And President Trump says, yeah, let's look into it. Who cares if he wants to eat this or drink that? He's the only president we've ever had. who has set greenlit, let's go forth with Gold Star Science. I mean, I got to stand behind him as he was signing a presidential executive order, essentially asking the NIH, ordering the NIH to double down on our investments in pediatric cancer. I mean, this is a man that cares deeply about the health of children, and he wants science to lead the way on it.

It's actually it's hurt to see the press sort of display him as if someone who doesn't care about science or same thing with Bobby. They care deeply about science. They care, but they want science to translate into better health for people. They want scientific debate. They want the kind of just the permission to have scientific ideas that you weren't previously allowed to have. And then like have data lead the way on what ends up being, you know, what people believe is to be true. So last week, my friend Ashley, newlywed, calls me up and she's like, Alex.

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The mandates for the vaccine, the COVID lockdowns really shattered trust from the American public in the NIH. Why is this version of the NIH different than the one that failed them? I mean, first, I agree with you. It shattered my trust. The NIH is institution I love. Like, I have been supported by the NIH my entire career. You know, I was trained by Haxpayer dollars given to me, which I treasure, to become the kind of science. and doctor I am. I've seen what the NIH can do to help create a cadre of scientists who actually want to learn the truth and help people. But at the same time, you were right.

The trust is shattered. What I've tried to work on is, I mean, I ask myself, like, what can I do to help fix that? Because I think the NIH is worth saving. And I think it's savable. Right. So first, we have to make sure that the work of the NIH actually translates over to better health for people. We actually have to use science to make America healthy. Life expectancy in this country from 2010 to 2019 flatlined. First time in a century that life expectancy hasn't increased in this country over a decade. And it's only in 2024, we're back to 2019 levels after the collapse during COVID. We have to make sure that the advances, the amazing scientific advances that scientists have. have from the NIH translate over to better health for people. That's first goal.

And I've seen, we've done lots and lots to make sure that that happens. We're not just going to be funding the work to like suppress people or there's no what devastating takedowns. It's going to be science unleashed for the benefit of the American people. I mean, that's what Bobby Kennedy's asked for, that's the president asked for, that's what I'm going to deliver for the NIH. And second, the problem that when it'll happen is that you had a few people at the top of the scientific food chain getting to decide what everyone else thought was true.

Right? The best way to protect kids is to shut their schools down. That wasn't true. It wasn't true that the scientific evidence had that. The best way to like protect your kids from killing themselves is to trans them. Not true. The scientific evidence doesn't say that. But you have scientific authorities like the AAP we said earlier getting to decide what's scientific truth. You know, this is like the dark ages. Like back and back before the first scientific revolution, you had High ecclesiastical authority getting to decide what was true about physical reality, right? The first scientific revolution was, no, a person with a telescope gets to decide what's true. Because you can check yourself.

Everyone can look through the telescope, see the same thing. See, the thing I'm saying I see is right or wrong. Doesn't matter if I'm the Pope or a king or whatever. That's the first scientific revolution. The Dark Ages was authority gets to decide what's true over physical reality. We need a second scientific revolution. where you have instead of, you know, I'm the head of the NIH,

just because I say something is true in science doesn't make it true. It's never been the case that was okay. Instead, if I say something and lots of other independent teams that people find the same thing, then what I'm saying is true. Right.

If they don't, then it's not. With the NIH, that Bobby Kennedy is enabled me to lead, that President Trump's enabled to lead, we're going to get a second scientific revolution, restoring reality as the basis for truth, rather than authority in science. For people that believe that the NIH serves institutions rather than people, are they wrong?

Not if it's well run. If you are doing real honest science, you don't know what you're going to find. It's really dangerous for like pharmaceutical companies, for institutions that are used to doing things a certain way based on what they think science is saying. Like, for instance, like the discovery of the, of the, you know, the automobile and the, and the, and the, And basically it overturned the whole horse and buggy industry, right? Imagine if the horse and buggy industry got to say, well, you can't do research on automobiles in like 1900 or something. Yeah.

What we have is like, and you can see this with Elon Musk. You see all these like normal ways of doing things that everyone thinks it's going to be like that forever. And you have one little scientific advance and all of a sudden everything changes. Right? And it overturns all the industries, it's a very dangerous thing. but it's also very productive. It has to be focused on things that really matter for people.

When you took over the NIH, did you find that there was an ideological or political monoculture? And if so, how are you working to change that? There was some of that. There absolutely was some of that. I'll be an example of that, right? So about a month and a half in,

I did a town hall, sort of introducing myself to all the NIH. And during the town hall, I said that it's possible that work that the NIH support, alongside, mainly the Chinese were to blame, but might have caused the pandemic. Did people gasp and fall out of their chairs?

Actually, a bunch of this postdoc union, they stood up and walked out on me. So I'm like, okay, they don't want to talk about it, I guess. But the same time, I'm getting, I've gotten messages from all across the NIH from scientists who are like, you know, just thanking, thanking me for wanting open scientific discussion. I'd say, like, think about scientists is, we're not always the bravest people on earth.

And so like they, you know, but we do care about reality, right? So what I'd say like 90% of the NIH, the scientists that work there, they're excellent scientists. They just want to do their work and they kept their heads down and were assigned to the DEI statements because otherwise they weren't going to get fired. They're not ideological. They really just want to do science. And I've unleashed them.

No more DEI statements. No more, none of that nonsense. I just told them to go do science and have academic freedom so you can argue with each other. 10%, 5%, I don't know, there's some like politics there, I think. And what I've seen is that that faction has gotten less and less over time. Great. Yeah. So I've been pretty heartened to watch this.

You know, you're still going to see some. Yeah. But because I don't, I'm not a, I don't want to purge people. That doesn't make sense. What I want to do is I inspire them back to what they should be doing, which is science for the benefit of the American people. There are some criticisms of people in Maha of the NIH. They feel like, you know, the NIH,

sometimes prioritizes really rare diseases over chronic conditions like diabetes. Is that a fair critique? I mean, it's true that we made, that there's a lot of support for rare disease research. Actually, I think it's not bad because it turns out that often the advances you make in rare disease research have benefits elsewhere. So this is not exactly a rare disease, but there's a disease called sickle cell anemia. That's a lot of, especially African-American kids. And it's like terrible.

Like those kids are in the hospital all the time. They have these like pain crises. It's a single gene mutation. And when I was in med school, I looked at it. It was tragic, right? I was a medicine. I saw some patients with it. I never thought we'd see the day where we'd have a cure for it.

And we do. We have a cure for it. And part of it was investments in rare disease research. Yeah. At the same time, it's $3 million for treatment. I want to invest in lowering the price of that treatment. That will have big. Because that same kind of manufacturing process, if we invest in that, in lowering the price of it, will have impacts on cancer treatment, on like a whole host of other diseases where you can treat it with these like cell cell therapies, lower the price of manufacturing in one area.

And all of a sudden, everywhere else you have lower price treatments. And President Trump is very motivated to lower drug prices and treatment prices. Absolutely. That's been heartening to watch too. Is the NIH seriously investigating environmental health threats such as glyphosate, microplastics, infertility disruption, or have those concerns been sidelined? No, we have a whole institute called the National Institute of Environment Health Sciences that's focused on environmental health threats. Actually, just to give you one example, the vice president, he asked the NIH to conduct a study on this. Remember that East Palestine train derailment?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. There was a huge like chemical explosion and all these all these folks lived around the area in Ohio where it is they felt abandoned. Yeah, I would be terrified. At the vice president's behest, we are conducting a study to see what those environmental exposures are doing to people there and finding ways to mitigate it. We were absolutely committed to seeing how environmental exposure can a bad things can harm people and then working to mitigate. it. Millions of Americans are now using GLP1 drugs like OZMPIC. What do we still not know

about the long-term effects of drugs like Ozempic and Wigovey? It's funny because I studied obesity as a one of my scholarly topics for, and I gave up because I couldn't find something that

would actually last long. It was a very frustrating. The body weight of the United States kept going up and up and up. Last year was the first year that it actually went down. on average. Crazy. We don't know.

It's like if you're on a Zembek for a while, you lose weight and you get off of it, you know, you start to gain your weight back. Is there some transition that like makes it your, that actually poses a health threat to you? There's like some evidence of muscle loss. If you take it for a long time, some people have these rare side effects, vision side effects and other side effects. But on the other hand, a lot of people have benefited from it, especially people who have had a lot of trouble struggling with their weight.

And especially if they're diabetic, I think that there's good evidence of benefit. There's still, you know, if you're, I don't want kids to be on it forever. Right. I'd rather have them, you know, living healthy, like choosing, you know, good diets, exercising. I think that's the primary way we should be dealing with this. But it might have a role. Like, you know, especially for people who are already, you know, quite overweight or we're diabetic. You ever actually try to use your health insurance?

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After just a few weeks of consistent use, she told me that she literally noticed less stiffness, less inflammation and a real energy boost on the day she used it. It is clinically too, wavelengths of red and near infrared light that penetrate your cells and help support healthy cellular function. That is the science behind it. These wavelengths energize your mitochondria, which is your body's energy engine, so your cells can repair and function better and faster. There are so many benefits for better muscle recovery, reduced pain and inflammation,

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Why is asking about vaccines or autism treated as disqualifying in science? That's so crazy, isn't it, Alex? Yes. I've been watching that. So, like, first, to talk about vaccines as a single thing, when in fact, there's lots of different vaccines, they all have their own story, right? Some are, I'll give you an example, like the smallpox vaccine. I was born in India in 1968.

I had the smallpox vaccine. It's left a little scar on my shoulder. right? No one takes it anymore for very good reason. Smallpox is gone. Eradicates from the earth. You shouldn't take it. The vaccines, whether you should or shouldn't take it, depend on a whole host of things. In 1968, smallpox was a real threat to children and adults. It would make sense to require people or ask people to take it, or at least offer it to people to take it. Because if you, because it protected against the real, terrible disease. That disease is gone.

That doesn't make sense to take it anymore. So you have to consider the epidemiology of the disease. You also consider the efficacy of the vaccine. There's a vaccine that was on the market a few, a few years ago called Zostovacs for shingles. Shingles is like reactivated chicken pox. And the problem is like it didn't work very well against shingles. It faded in efficacy within a year. It left you vulnerable shingles again.

That got taken off the market because it wasn't efficacious. Actually, it's funny story about that one. There's now evidence that suggests it might actually reduce your Alzheimer's risk. But they replaced that old vaccine with a new vaccine because it didn't have evidence of efficacy. Then there's also side effects, right? Some vaccines have more side effects than others. It's just a reality. You have to ask, if you are pro-vax, you have to ask questions, vaccine by vaccine by vaccine.

this idea that if you are asking questions about side effects of vaccines or antivacs, well, the exact opposite is true. You need excellent scientific evidence so that people can make good decisions for themselves and their kids. And the idea of shared decision making, that's how you build trust, right? If I tell you, Alex, you have to take this or I'm going to throw you in jail. I won't you go to work. I want you to let you, you know, that's what happened during the pandemic.

Like in Canada, you couldn't fly on an airplane if you weren't COVID vaccinated. People lost their jobs. I had people from the American military writing me telling me they've had a long career. They're being forced to take a COVID vaccine that they don't think is good for them. And they were begging me to like write during the pandemic, write letters to support to say, look, they shouldn't be fired. My own colleague of the Greg Bantry Declaration, Martin Kulorf, got fired from Harvard because it didn't make sense for him to take the COVID vaccine. He has a sort of a genetic condition that made him more vulnerable to the side effects of the vaccine. And yet they fired him because they were trying to force everyone at Harvard to take the vaccine.

Have you heard of plans to kind of revamp, speaking of the military, water and food on military basis? I haven't heard specific plans to military, but I wouldn't be in the loop of some of that stuff anyways. But I have heard of shifts and changes to the dietary guidelines. In fact, I think this coming month we're going to start to, that Secretary Kennedy has started talking about this. We're going to have new dietary guidelines. They're going to come out there to be science-based. We're going to have opportunities to tell the American people about what actually does make America out.

There's a lot of questions in nutrition research that really need good scientific answers. I mean, I don't know for you, but like I grew up in a household where in the 70s, everyone in public health was saying, you can't eat eggs. Yeah. Because you're going to kill you. So I did not eat an egg until I was like 15 years old.

Whoa. And so I'm like, I was, it was like, you know, the first time I had an egg, I was like, wow, what I've been missing for like forever. But then it was just egg whites. Oh, yuck. I know. Well, okay, if I've never had an egg before, an egg white is pretty good, though. So I like the egg white.

Then I had, then the eggs are a superfood. The first time I had egg yolk, I'm like, okay, I really regret science having misled me on this. We need excellent scientific evidence. So the nutrition advice we give to people doesn't go shift back and forth in this way. Where do you and Bobby Kennedy genuinely disagree on vaccines and where do you align? Well, we align that we all want excellent gold standard science to underlie the decisions. On specific vaccines, I think he thinks about things slightly differently than me. I mean, that's okay.

I mean, my job is to give him my best professional advice. He's the secretary, and he's supposed to take that into account. There's debate at HHS is what I'm trying to say. And that's, I mean, I really love that. I think that debate is reflected in the, sort of like, you know, you see Bobby say things about, about, in, in, in public, I often hear things that have come out of our debates reflected in what he's saying in public.

And so I just find that heartening. I mean, it's, you know, of course, I've never met a scientist or, or anyone else that's agreed with me about everything. If they did, it'd be really boring. When your time at NIH ends, what do you hope people say that you restored to American science? I mean, I really want a second scientific revolution. I want physical reality. experiments, logic, data,

to underlie, an independent replication to underlie what we believe is true in science. I don't want authority to determine, to do devastating takedowns in order to get their scientific ideas entrenched. That's what happened during the pandemic. And I want to restore

science to a place where that can never happen again. I think it's vital for our future, for the future of the United States, and for the future of the humanity that we do that. What has been one of the funniest behind-the-scenes stories you have about President Trump. I'm going to speak a little out of turn on this one.

Oh, we love that. Mr. President, please don't fire me. Okay, so there was an announcement we made about autism, and in particular about Tylenol use. I'm sure you remember this, right? So there's a big scientific debate going on, and I come down on the side that the data show that it's probably not a good idea to take Tylenol

while you're pregnant unless you have a high fever or something like that, right? You don't be careful with it. But there's a scientific debate going on. There's some people who look at the data differently than me and think, well, that's probably okay. Right. In my view, though, like from a public health one of you, you tell women who are pregnant to not eat sushi, don't drink alcohol. We don't have perfect data that demonstrate that eating sushi is going to harm your child.

I know. We could talk about this too. You're not perfect data. So we have a principle to say, well, you've got to be careful in pregnancy. So we give this advice, don't eat sushi, don't eat, don't drink alcohol. I think Tylenol fits in that same category. Okay, I just described it the way I described it, right? Yeah.

I was standing behind the president when he's announcing it, and I just love him. But the way he talked about it was like, you look at the camera says, don't take it. And then he says, unless you need it. And unless you need it was like, you almost didn't hear it. But he said it. He definitely said, I did unless you need it, which is actually substantively the right advice. But like, Mr. President, please don't start with, don't take it unless you need it. do it a little more.

You know, he's not a nuanced communicator in that sense. No, he isn't. And you either, and people love it or they hate it. I personally love it. Speaking of something I love, I love that you're a believer. When you are praying about this administration or the Maha movement, what do you pray for? Wisdom. I mean, I think the weight of the kind of responsibilities we have in government in HHS are enormous.

And their competing interests, it's so easy to get lost. And so for me, I pray for wisdom all the time to make sure that you may have the right decisions, have people around me to keep me grounded, and that we do the right thing for the American people. I think we've done a really good job. But, you know, there's more to do, a lot more to do. We can always do better. I ask every guess this. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture,

physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be? A reverence for the truth is at the heart of our problems in our culture. Right? Like we want to, our egos get in the way. Our financial interests get in the way. Our desire for our team, a political team, or whatever to win get in the way. Our culture gets better when we have a reverence for the truth. We're sitting here in America Fest where Charlie Kirk's organization was centered, right?

I think. And what I saw in him, I had actually had the honor of doing a podcast with him just before he was murdered. What I saw in him was a reverence for the truth. And I think that that spirit, like it underlies advances in all of those areas you talked about. Spiritually, what is a love of God other than a reverence for the truth, right? A seeking of him, you know, in science, a reverence for the truth means we're humble in face of data, right? In politics, when our opponents have a better argument, we change our mind, right? A reverence for the truth over our own egos. Thank you so much, Dr. for coming on culture apothecary. Thank you so much, Alex. So thankful to get this little snapshot with Dr. J. Vodacharya. He is so cool. I love that he is conservative. He's a believer and just

the all-around most nice guy that you will ever meet. So support him and his work at the NIH I'm very proud of what they're doing. Culture Apothecary drops new episodes every Monday and Thursday at 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern. Anywhere you get your podcast, don't forget, you can also watch episodes on the Real Alex Clark YouTube channel. I would love a five-star review from you. That means a lot to the show and all of the people that work on it and helps other guests, you know, see the great work we're doing and want to come on the show.

So thanks for that, helping us out. You can follow the show on Instagram at Culture Apothecary and me at Real Alex Clark. I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture Apothecary.