Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “Demons Are Real.” – Interview with Doreen Virtue on New Age Lies & False Prophets

Episode Date: November 19, 2021

Can you imagine being devoted to a religious movement, meddling with witchcraft and demonic forces, believing that God himself gifted you with psychic powers, all the while thinking you were doing GOOD in the world? This was Doreen Virtue’s life when she was involved in The New Age movement…until she discovered that it was all a LIE and she was a false prophet.Astrology, tarot readings, psychics, crystals, essential oils, and even yoga attribute to The New Age Movement to steer people away fr...

Imagine partying in the same room as Tucker Carlson, Candice Owens, and Brantley Gilbert, and Charlie Kirk. Then imagine all your friends there. And then imagine meeting new friends and every single one of them is conservative. That is America Fest. And it's the biggest conservative event turning point USA has ever held. It's happening in Phoenix, Arizona from December 18th to the 21st. It's three days jam-packed with the biggest names in the conservative movement. and I mean the biggest.

Some not even announced yet. In two full nights of country concerts. Go to TPSA.com slash AmericaFest to get your tickets with code Alex for 25% off. Have you ever been driving in your car only to hear something that stops you in your tracks? I don't mean putting your foot on the literal brakes and coming to a stop or hearing jarring new music for the first time.

I mean something that makes you completely rethink your tracks. entire life, your fortune, your career, your beliefs? Today's guest spent decades of her life, exercising her powers as a clairvoyant or psychic. In fact, she was totally famous in the New Age community. Her workshops were held around the world. Her books put her at the top of the charts, and her tarot cards were famous because they avoided evil symbolism and darker images and featured pictures of angels instead. Her whole brand, was justified by being happy and positive. Sounds like good vibes, right? That's a term we hear all the time. And she's actually going to address whether good vibes is problematic or not. Her life

revolved around new ageism and witchcraft and that kind of stuff. But she never saw it that way until January 2015 when she was driving in her car and heard a sermon by Alistair Begg about false prophets. And suddenly it dawned on her that she wasn't just a psychic. She was a false prophet and all her decades' worth of work were not as good and helpful as she had always believed. I feel like witches are trendy

right now and not just because Halloween happened recently. People talk about aligning their chakras, their birth signs, enneagrams, and mercury being in retrograde and yes, essential oils. This is a very hot button issue. So I want to know from an expert,

what does it all mean? Is it all really bad? Is it demonic? Or, Is some of this stuff just innocent? Joining me today to tell her incredible story of how her life changed and why is Doreen Virtue. Doreen, I want to start with you growing up. I think that's important. Was witchcraft or New Ageism at all a part of your childhood? Absolutely.

I wouldn't call it witchcraft so much, but definitely New Age, where it was all that use your mind to control your reality was exactly how it was raised. My parents didn't take us to doctors. Instead, they would pray over any kind of issues, not only sicknesses and injuries, but if our washing machine would break or a car would break, they would just pray over it. And I actually witnessed some miracles and a lot of supernatural experiences as a child. Like what? Just things that didn't make sense, you know, just like I would see things.

I had visions as a child. I would see people that no one else could see. And I know that sounds really crazy, but I became a psychotherapist later in my life, I think, to try to figure it out. And so a lot of children have supernatural experiences that the traditional religion doesn't explain, and that's how they get into new age, and that was me.

My mom was a Christian science practitioner, Christian science, not to be confused with Scientology. Christian science is an old religion based on faith, healing. And she was a professional. She had an office downtown where her specialty was helping people to heal their eyesight and glaucoma issues. And I just grew up in this atmosphere of supernaturalism and twisted scripture. I had a Bible when I was a kid. We read it all the time and we went to church twice a week. I was told I was a Christian, but I didn't know that I was part of a heredical family and I was a heretic. Yeah, so let's talk about that because your life was forever changed in

January of 2015. Talk about what that moment was like when you heard a pastor on the radio talking about false prophets and what he specifically said that made you think, oh my gosh, am I a false prophet? It's true. So I identified as a Christian, but I was really focused on world religions and I had this new age belief that all paths lead to God like the co-create bumper sticker. And so I would listen to Christian radio, solid Christian radio, but I would also listen to Buddhist and Hindu gurus and I would listen to shamans and you name it. I just, I thought that it was all part of the truth. And so one day in January 2015, I was listening to Alistair Begg, Truth for Life out of Cleveland,

in Ohio, and he's the one with that great Scottish accent. And I had listened to him many times. I'd heard the gospel, but this day, the Holy Spirit convicted my heart for the first time, because he was talking about, in the end times, people will want their itching ears tickled with false teachings that make them feel good. And as he described a false teacher, Alex, it was like he was talking about me. He was talking about me. And it really stopped me. And I thought, you know, I don't want to be that false teacher. So I went home and I said to my husband, you know, I think we need to start going to church. And he said, sure, he was a new age or two. And so we started looking for, you know, at a church. We didn't know anything about denominations.

We were still just starting to read the whole Bible instead of cherry pick little verses like we were both raised with. And so it took a couple of years. It was 2017. Basically, as a I got to Deuteronomy 18 in the Bible, which if anyone's interested, go to Deuteronomy 18, 10 through 16, 10 through 18. There's this whole list of things that a lot of us do, that I was doing. I was using divination because at that time I was the top selling New Age author. And I was using and I'm making these angel cards, these angel to row cards. And it said right in Deuteronomy 18 that anyone who does these things, the person is detestable to God is an abomination.

And you see, until that moment, I thought I was, this is going to sound insane. But I really thought, in a lot of New Ages, think this, I thought I was co-creating with God. I thought I was helping God to bring peace to earth. I know, it's crazy. But people would say that my products made them feel better. They would call me an angel or a goddess. and I kind of drank in their compliments. And at that moment when I read that this list of things I was doing,

interpreting signs and omens, I think a lot of people do that and don't realize that that's not what God wants us to do. And what do you mean by that interpreting signs and omens and that it's not good? Well, I mean, the Bible is filled with things like, you know, the fleece of Gideon and other signs. But that was for a specific time and place. God doesn't want us to get derailed. off of his, the true doctrine, the true gospel.

And when you're looking for signs, you often will misread them with your wishful thinking and say, oh, God wants me to, and this is sad in the New Age, you see this a lot. God wants me to leave my husband, or God wants me to leave my family and go to Peru and become a Reiki master. And, you know, people just read into things like leaves and birds

and numbers and, clouds, what it is that's a wish fulfillment. And I was doing that and I was teaching it. Unfortunately, even though I'm out of the new age, completely 100%, there's still some people selling my old products. It's getting less, praise the Lord, but there's some bootleg printers that are bootleg printing my old products. And I'm screaming as loud as I can that my old products and any new age products are demonic and they do not belong in anyone's house, especially a professing Christian. Okay, so you are saying how you were this highly successful author and speaker.

I know how big you were. I'm not sure that all of my listeners do. So explain when you say you are a successful new age author, what does that mean exactly at the time that you were saved? Okay. Well, I don't talk about the details too much, but since you asked, I would, was living a rock star life. And you know, if you've ever watched like behind the music on MTV or any of those, I had that kind of life where anything my husband and I wanted was provided for us with the publishers

and the event producers because I was giving sold out workshops worldwide. And I was being, my husband and I both. They were flying us first class like on Emirates jets, you know, with the little cabins and such. Around the world, we were staying in penthouse suites at four seasons. and Ritz Carlton and limousines. We were just, money was just flowing. But unfortunately, like a rock star, we were spending it as fast or faster than we could make it. I was shopping at Dulchinge, and Prada and Fifth Avenue, New York, and Herodz in London and Milan, Italy, and just wearing all the finest designer.

We had a 50-acre ranch in Hawaii. Wow. I was constantly on the talk shows. I was on Oprah, CNN, The View. And you were a big liberal, which I didn't know this. I was huge liberal. I was so liberal. I was left of the Democratic Party.

I was in the Green Party. And yeah, so that's one of the reasons why I don't harp on people about their politics. I instead send them to the Bible because that's what turned me into a conservative was the biblical worldview. I mean, when you read the whole Bible and God puts it on your heart to understand, the gospel. I mean, it's conservative. You just understand that God's 10 commandments are still for today. And that's what the true conservative party is upholding. I mean, there's people who exploit it on both ends, of course. But I don't try to talk people politically into becoming conservative, because it wouldn't have worked on me. The only thing that worked on me was God,

working on my heart, giving me a new life in Jesus and reading the, the whole Bible. And then I ended up going to seminary. I just graduated with a master's degree in biblical and theological studies from Western Seminary. And I'm just, I'm so, my husband said to me two days ago, he said, you are so much happier now. And this is true. In the new age, I had every material thing. I got standing ovations wherever I go. Money was flowing. I owned six beautiful horses. I had, you know, I had friends and a wonderful family, my health, everything you could want materially, but I was seeking still. I was still looking for the next thing. And I was obsessed with trying to predict and control the future. I was obsessed with vision boards and manifesting

law of attraction, yoga. I mean, all the new age ecoutrements were my daily passion. And in truth, being a new ageer is very time-consuming and expensive. Now that I'm a Christian, it's read the Bible and pray. You know, love God, love people. Done. It's, you know. How does somebody go from living a rock star life, though, millionaire life? You're mega famous. How do you go from that to willing to? Well, I just think what I'm doing is wrong. Poof one day now after hearing somebody on the radio, I'm willing to leave it all. I mean, you were married. Was your husband not like, well, wait. a minute, we're making a lot of money from what you're doing. I mean, how easy was it for you to walk away? Well, my husband, praise the Lord, converted with me. He was so encouraging. And I had friends who had left the New Age who helped me also to come out. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's been hard because people, including my own children, have shunned me and don't talk to me anymore because they're still new agers and they think I'm being judgmental. And, you know, they're woke and I'm not kind of thing. that's been heartbreaking every single day to not have a relationship with my family that's new age

and I've lost, you know, who I thought were best friends. I think a lot of cute servatives. That's what I call the fans of my show. I think a lot of cute servatives would relate to that. A lot of them have lost best friends and family and are always asking, what do I do? How do you move on from that? Well, yeah, it's definitely, I look at Matthew 10, Jesus promises this. this will happen, that his families will divide. And I just lean on his promises, but it was truly a supernatural work of God that helped me to understand the gospel that Jesus really is the Son of God, who really did die for our sins.

Before then, I thought that was just a myth. I didn't believe in the crucifixion because the New Age teaches that it's an appropriation of an old Egyptian or Samarian mythology. I didn't believe the Bible was inerrant word of God, but it was like, a moment, January 7, 2017, actually, was, I was just, it was this moment where I just knew the Bible's real. It's really God's word. And all of it's true. And I knew that I had to get out of the New Age.

I also knew people would be very angry with me, which they have been, and they are. I get tons of hate mail from people who make money off of New Age. You know, the Tarot readers are furious with me because I call out cards and say they're demonic. And just like Acts 19, Paul was almost killed by the silversmiths because the silversmiths goddess statues. The sales went down because Paul was in town preaching the gospel. The tarot readers are very mad at me and they slander me, they persecute me. They've done all sorts of mean things to me, stalk me, et cetera, because I've impacted

their business. But I just pray for them, you know, like people. People prayed for me when I was a deceived New Asia. Speaking of magic, have you ever seen magic work? Have you ever casted spells on someone? I mean, I'm totally ignorant on this stuff. So in your past life, were those activities that you were involved in? Well, I was afraid of witchcraft, but a lot of what I did bordered on it.

And so it wasn't so much spells. It was similar to what in hypercounter. charismatic circles is called decreeing and declaring. I thought that we could tell God what to do, which I'm horrified, and of course I've repented for this. And so decreen and declaring was more, God, this is what you're going to do. You know, it's just like ordering God around is a big part of the New Age. New Age has different denominations, if you will. And I was in the spectrum that was kind of dealing with angels and fairies and sparkles and love and light and energy healing and yoga, kind of the lighter side. But then there's the other spectrum of New Age that goes into

Wicca and Witchcraft that's becoming more popular. And I'm super concerned about that. That is really scary. It is becoming very popular, even in kid shows. It's everywhere. And I look at, okay, so take, for example, somebody that I know my audience definitely knows is the Long Island medium. Oh yeah. Okay. So she thinks, if you watch her show, she thinks she is really doing good in the world. You know, are there some psychics who are actually tapping into something good or do even the best intentions deal with the demonic realm no matter what? Well, that's the thing that confused me until I was saved is that I really thought I was doing good in the world because people told me. And people would come up to me at my book.

signings and they'd have cross necklaces or crucifixion necklaces. And so I looked at them and I thought, well, they're Christian and they like my work. So it must be okay. Like they were validating me. And so if we look at Genesis 3, the fall of humanity, we can see that the serpent mixes in truth and lies. And he still does. So he gives enough truth to hook people in. He uses in the New Age, this book that's often called the New Age Bible called A-Chor. and miracles that Marianne Williamson popularized. I used to tour with her. And in that book, it says that forgiveness is the key to salvation or forgiveness is the key to happiness. And of course, Jesus talked about the importance of forgiveness. So that's true. Forgiveness

is, it doesn't save us, but it's essential. It's part of loving your neighbor as yourself. But then, of course, and miracles also says that the crucifixion didn't happen, that there's no devil, that the atonement comes from yourself, that you save yourself through forgiveness. And that's the false gospel we see in the new age. But we're told that there's such a thing as good witches and bad witches

and something like Harry Potter is good, and Dungeons and Dragons is just fun and innocent. What's the truth? Yeah. Yeah, well, of course, that's how the devil seduced Eve in the fall. You know, I mean, it's this belief that it's okay to violate God's commandments because maybe you don't know God's commandments because you haven't read the Bible or because someone who you admire is saying, oh, it's okay, you can just do a little bit.

God won't care. You know, you can get away with this. A lot of the people in witchcraft that I've known over the years are people who feel out of control in their life. Maybe they've been traumatized or they've been abused or abandoned and they're just trying to take charge. They've tried praying. It seems like God is not answering their prayers. And so they're going to try to bypass God and be their own God. And many times they call themselves goddesses. And goddess worship is huge in the witch community. I was involved in that very heavily. And so they're trying to cast spells and they say, well, it's your intentions. If it's,

if it's for good and you say this quote, prayer protection, unquote, that God won't mind, but that's not true. The Bible is filled with warnings that people who are into witchcraft are an abomination, are detestable to God. And the Bible also calls it sorcery. And in the book of Revelation, it says, anyone who practice sorcery will be in the lake of fire, meaning hell, and will not be able to go to heaven. So anyone involved in witchcraft needs to get on their knees and repent and know that God is in charge, and he answers prayers according to his will. Sometimes he says yes. Sometimes he says maybe.

Sometimes he says wait. Sometimes he says, no, I've got something better. And when we learn to trust instead of turning to try to control and manipulate and manifest ourselves, our lives actually go a lot better. We become a lot more peaceful. We learn to lean on God and to trust God. I cannot tell you how many times when I have brought up that witches are real friends of mine that are like, Alex, that's not a real thing. There's no such thing as real witches.

Yeah, there is. And witchcraft's real. I mean, if you look at the book of Exodus and the sorcerers in Pharaoh's court, they really were mimicking. some of God's miracles that were coming through Moses and Aaron. And in the same way, the devil can counterfeit what God does. The devil is not creative. He doesn't create, but he counterfeits. And so he can seem to really heal people. And that's what happened to me in Christian science growing up. And later in life, I got into energy healing and Reiki and shamanism. It seems to work. My cards seem to help people. The aneogram seems to help people, which is a new age tool.

Yes, I want to get into that too. Yoga seems to help people. And so people will point to the effects and they'll go, look, this is helping me. It's helping others. So it must be from God. It doesn't work that way. So there are obvious signs, I think that, you know, like Ouija boards and things like that, that are obviously darker spiritually.

People are pretty quick and eager to call those out. But something like yoga, people would be like, okay, Doreen, what do you do? know, like yoga is nothing. It's exercising. How in the world could you possibly say that yoga is demonic? Yeah, I understand. If I was listening to this 10 years ago, I would have said the same thing. But I practiced yoga for 20 years in the new age, basically daily. My best friend in the new age was a yoga teacher who owned a yoga studio. So I was all in. And I was doing headstands and all the ashtongas and and all of the different usanas. So when I really delved into the theology of yoga, I was shocked because there's some people

who call it holy yoga or Christian yoga. I actually have a video on my YouTube channel of an ex-holy yoga teacher who was convinced as long as you use scripture or hymns while you're doing yoga, it's okay and it's just stretching. Well, let me just tell you about one yoga pose. there's this series called the sun salutations that almost every yoga practice involves. And there's this three poses called the warrior one, two, and three, where your arms are straight out and you do a triangle pose. And the warrior in Sanskrit, which is the ancient Eastern language that is based on the yoga's Hinduism, the warrior Sanskrit name is Veribadrasana. And Veribadras is a demon from Hindu, it's mythology, but there's real demons.

And Veribadras was a murdering demon. So when you're doing warrior one, two, and three, you're actually acting out that you're a demon murdering someone. And if you look at all the poses, you look at cobra, you look at the Krishna pose. They all have polytheistic pagan roots. And that doesn't glorify God. It's not just stretching, putting your arms out so taught and precisely. That's not natural stretching. That is, it's glorifying that the 300 million Hindu deities that each of the poses is

their design. If you look at the Vitas, the Bible of the Hindu world, it's in the Vitas. It says right there that each yoga pose is glorifying one of their gods. goddesses are demons. Now, you just said, the way you said it was like demons are real. They're not just a thing that you say in stories to categorize bad people. Now, just remember some people listening to this, this may be the first time they've ever heard anything like this. So are demons real? Yeah. Yes, they are. They're fallen angels. I mean, all you have to do is read the Bible. Go to Ephesion 6. Paul says that the war that we're going through is not flesh and blood. It's not people,

but there's powers of rulers and authorities, which is demons, fallen angels, behind all of the bickering and wars that are going on in the world. Demons are controlling people who have turned away from Christ, and it's one of the reasons you see the absolute shocking behaviors going on. I was demonically oppressed when I was a new ageer. What does that mean? Well, let me just tell you a quick story. So I was giving one of my new age workshops, which I gave two or three a week.

And a woman who was a new ageer came to my workshop. She was all in, believer. And then that night, my husband and I went to a local restaurant. This woman came to the restaurant. We had a very pleasant conversation. But God revealed to her as she looked at me. that I was controlled by demons. There was just something she saw in my eyes or mannerism.

And she right then and there converted from New Ageism to Christianity. And she started praying for me. And later we met up as Sisters in Christ. Wow. They've both been delivered. But demons are puppet masters that control people who are trying to bypass God's will and commandments. Are you really interacting when somebody is doing

witchcraft and stuff, how do they get their powers? Are they speaking to demons? I mean, how does that work? Yeah, well, a lot of witchcraft instruction involves invoking spirits, goddesses, so-called archangels that are really demons in disguise, invoking elements and elementals. And so, yeah, you're giving permission to the demonic world that you want help. And it's real. The spells work. They have definite effects. People get very hungry for the power it gives them. It's intoxicating. Is that what's happening with mediums and psychics? Were you a psychic? Could you really communicate with the dead? I mean, how does that work? Well, I thought I was communicating with the dead because one of the reasons I was so successful was my readings were so accurate. I'm not bragging. That's the truth.

I would stand in an auditorium of people. I couldn't see anyone and I would get names of dead people, including in foreign languages. I would be told how that person died, what breed a dog they used to have, what job they have. I mean, details. And a lot of psychics are the same. I was touring with very famous psychics, James von Prague, Gordon Smith, Sylvia Brown. I mean, a lot of the real fame, John Edward.

I was touring with them. And we were all just giving details. And it convinced us that this was real. It convinced the audience. It was real. But was it, though? Yeah, it was real. But it was not coming from the dead people.

Teresa Caputo is not talking to Aunt Edna. She's talking to demons who know enough to give her information that she's really getting as either visions or knowingness or feelings or thoughts that she gives to her client. and the client says you couldn't have known that, so this must be real. It's a shell game. It's a con game that the demons do to addict people to psychics. Let's talk about the anagram and personality tests because you brought that up. And I am somebody personally.

I love personality tests, but I have heard that the anyagram in particular, I haven't gotten involved with that because I heard it's part of the occult or has occult ties. that is definitely that's another I mean a lot of the things that you're going to call out and say these are dark these are demonic you shouldn't do them people are going to be very offended by personality tests are going to be one of those so why do you think certain personality tests are evil well okay so my background is I have a BA and an MA from Chapman University in counseling psychology so I'm really grounded in psychological tests I actually had to take the Minnesota multi-phazac personality inventory which is a 500 question. It's by Stanford University psychological test in order to graduate with my master's from Chapman. So I know tests. And I'm also grounded in the new age methods of some of these so-called personality tests that have nothing to do with sound psychological or scientific basis. So the Enneagram and also the Myers-Brigg are two that came from the occult.

Enneagram's background is that it was a geological shape. And this man named Claudia Naranjo, and I have a video of him saying this, so I'm not gossiping about him. He brags about this openly. Claudia Naranjo used a process called automatic writing, which is trans-channeling. That's how I got my messages in the New Age from demons. and he got these messages about the nine enneotypes. And he was the one who really invented the enneagram. And then it was popularized by a man named Richard Roar,

who pretends to be a Christian, but he's really a polytheist. Yeah, that's confusing because a lot of churches are using enigrams, but it's evil? Well, it's got evil roots. It seems to help people, and that's where, again, everyone gravitates that, oh, Tarotard's work, astrology works,

aneogram works, therefore it must be good. It's no, no, no. It doesn't, that's not the formula. What's a formula is, is it according to God's will? And you find that out by, as Apostle John said in 1st John 4, by testing the spirits. Does, is it rooted and grounded in the gospel that, that proclaims Jesus as our Lord and Savior?

No. The aneagram is rooted and grounded in transchanneling of demons. that try to say your identity is a four or an eight or a nine with a wing two, instead of that your identity as a born-again Christian is a child of God. And so it takes your focus off of Jesus, off the gospel, and puts it on yourself and glorifies the self, which is what the New Age is all about. Myers-Brigg came from a cult also.

The people who, it's actually a farmwoman and her daughter that created the Myers-Briggs, no scientists, no psychologists involved. They studied Carl Young, who was an occultist, who was very into trans-channeling. And they used Youngian theories to create these different modes for the extrovert, introvert, and the other things that are in the Myers-Brigg. And I used to believe in it. I used to think that it was valid until I saw how it was made. So the Myers-Brigg and the Enneagram are pseudoscientific.

at best and demonic tools of the devil at worst. What about aligning chakras? That Reiki, is that how you say it? Reiki, yeah. How bad is that stuff? Is that like yoga times 10, like really bad yoga? Or is it all the same? I think it's pretty black or white.

You're either obeying God or you're not, you know? And so I was a. a Reiki Master in the New Age. I'm not saying these things as an armchair, you know, Christians. I'm saying these as someone who's been there, done that. So I was a Reiki Master, and I wrote a book called chakra clearing. I used to teach people how to clear their chakras and balance them. So I was all into those beliefs and methodologies. The chakra, which means will in the Eastern language of Sanskrit, it is based on clairvoyance from the Hindu beliefs. And it is not Christian.

There's nothing about chakras in the Bible, no matter how much people want to try to twist it. Do people try to say their stuff about it in the Bible? Yeah, they try to say that Jesus was laying on hands and doing Reiki. What? Yeah, well, this is what happens. So the Reiki came from a man named Asui was his last name, a Japanese man. And then it was popularized by a woman who,

took the Reiki teachings to Hawaii. And at that time, it was still a pretty Christian world, including in Hawaii. So to make it palatable to people, she admitted that she tried to lie that Asoui was a Christian, that he was a Christian seminary professor, and that he had got the messages about Reiki from Jesus. Later, she admitted it was a lie. And then later Asui's original documents were found that showed that he got the idea from a tantric book. Tantra is an energy system. It's usually very sexualized. That's very, very Hindu

Eastern. So Reiki is a series of symbols that supposedly attune you to universal energy. There's a buzzword from the new age, universe. New Ageers always pray to the universe. And that violates Romans 1, which says that in the latter times, people will worship the creation instead of the creator, and that God will give them over. And that's new agers. A lot of New Agers are ex-Catholics who they left the Catholic Church because they thought it was hypocritical. I mean, there is hypocritical, you know, modalities in Catholicism for sure.

And the abuse in the Catholic Church. And so they went right into New Age. And so they don't want to say God. They don't want to say Jesus anymore. They want to pray to the universe. pray to the full moon, pray to the stars, pray to Mother Nature, Gaia, anything but Jesus. When you talk about worshipping the God of self, is this whole self-love movement that we've seen become mega popular in culture and in pop culture concerning to you? Is it possible that you

think to ever love yourself? I talked about this on my show, my pop culture show Poplittics very recently. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people, will always argue with me that you can blend New Age with Christianity. And in fact, I was someone who would have argued that. I used to call myself an open-minded Christian that I could love Jesus, but also Buddha and Krishna, I could do yoga, I could do whatever I wanted. I was kind of arguing that Christian freedom means I can do whatever I want. Well, Christian freedom means that God is giving you the freedom to choose him instead of sin. That's what it means. It doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want. And so self-love, a lot of it, I think, and this is as a former psychotherapist,

is rooted and grounded in people who have unhealed trauma in their life. It's just really sad. I think we're walking around as wounded, post-traumatic people who have been traumatized by world events, by personal events. And instead of dealing with it biblically, where we would go to God, we would have support from our pastor, from our family, from other beliefs, believers, we just try to fix it ourselves. And the new age teaches that the way to get over trauma is to use positive affirmations to say into the mirror. I used to tour for years with my publisher, Louise Hay, who, you know, I love her. She's passed on now. But she was the one who popularized positive affirmations. And she was an abuse survivor also. So you try to boost yourself up by

saying, oh, you're lovable, you're perfect, whole, incomplete, you know, you're fabulous, and you do it in the mirror. And it might make you feel better for a moment, like a piece of candy would give you you energy for a moment. But then there's a crash because it's not doing the true work that only Jesus can do on our heart when it gives us a new life and a new heart. Do you think it's okay to say things like good vibes, sending good energy, things like that? Yeah, no, those are vibes and The word energy as a new ager uses it talks about something very different than a secular or a professing Christian would use it. So to a new ageer, energy means your aura. It means that you're giving off something that's a power. And again, this is why New Age and Christianity can't blend

because they're opposites. Our purpose, the Bible tells us, is to glorify God and to enjoy him. That's our purpose. Glorify God. Give all glory to God. where the new age says we're to glorify ourselves. You can't have both. They just don't mesh at all. I want to talk about problems in today's churches in America. You have been somebody that I love following on social media because you are not afraid. You are so fearless.

You are bold in calling out other false teachers because you felt like you were one and you are not afraid to call out other people. And you know a lot about churches. like Bethel, for example, and Hillsong and Elevation. And this is where it's about to get spicy, but I really want to hear what you have to say. I know for a fact that I have so many followers who love going to Bethel, who love their local Hillsong Church, who love listening to Stephen Ferdick from Elevation. Please explain what you have found out about these pastors and why you believe that they are also false prophets. Absolutely. The reason I'm so bold and warning people is,

because I was there after I was saved. I didn't know. So I was following Joyce Meyer, Beth Moore. My husband and I were so into Hillsong music that we traveled to Sydney, Australia and went to a Hillsong church there. And so the music seduced us. But as we read the Bible more, we started to see the big discrepancy. Bethel Church looks like a mind, body, spirit festival. It's very new age. It uses a lot of the same elements that I was using when I was on stage and gimmicks. They're putting glitter through the air condition system and calling it the glory cloud. What? That's just blasphemy. Yeah. You can see videos of that on YouTube. And they're pretending to raise people from the dead and heal people.

Now, what do you mean about that? You got to go back here. What do you mean they're raising people from the dead? Are they actually or they're pretending to? Well, they don't have any documentation, but they've had a so-called, there's a man who's a part of their church, and I don't remember his title, but it's something along the lines of dad-raising person. And he claims to have raised 500 people. And, you know, these are videos. These are Bethel TV videos. And I've got them on my YouTube channel. And yet there's no paperwork.

There's just, there's nothing. It would be great if he, if it worked. I mean, I would be applauding if he could raise some people I know from the dead. But the Bible talks about raising from the dead that Jesus did it, of course, and God did it in the Old Testament. And then we see some of the apostles. But that was before the early church. You know, the early church was the end of the apostolic era. And these churches elevate the men who run the churches and call themselves apostles.

Their word is final. You're supposed to follow these apostles and not question them. And you're supposed to give money in exchange for promised blessings. When we went to Hillsong, we were told that the worst thing that could happen to a person is not have a swimming pool. And if you just text the certain number to give money to Hillsong, you two could have a swimming pool. I mean, all kinds of things. In terms of Stephen Ferdick, now, he's an interesting one because he's more subtle. The Bethel and Hill song is so easy to spot the false heresy.

What you want to look with Stephen Ferdick is you can actually take a piece of paper or use your note pad on your phone. How many times does he talk about himself versus how many times do you talk about Jesus or quote the Bible? And you're going to have a real lopsided list where he talks about himself 80, 90, maybe 99% of the time. And then Jesus is kind of this afterthought only to support the stories he's told about himself. self. So he's the king of self-glorification. Wow. Okay. And what is this term grave-soaking that I've heard Bethel use? Yeah. So Bethel is loosely associated with this family that's in Australia that uses to row cards. Well, they say they're not to row cards, but they are to have people have Jesus encounters, which is so dangerous because they will meet the false Jesus. They'll meet the prophesied

false Jesus who's really a demon. It's who I was following in the new age. If you'd ask me in the new age, Alex, I would have said, oh yeah, I love Jesus. He's my spirit guide right by my shoulder here. And so that's Bethel is leading you to the false Jesus. So what I've never heard, I've genuinely never heard of that. So what do you mean by there's a false demon Jesus? Well, Jesus himself said in the end times there would be many calling themselves Christ and that don't follow them. And so in the new age, there's this, it's like a spirit guide, if you will. They call Jesus an ascended master. And he is, he's this ascended master that almost all new ages follow is not the biblical Jesus.

He's this anything goes, easygoing, like a teddy bear, hippie sort who says, you know, as long as you're happy and positive, you can do what you want. And a lot of people think they're following Jesus, but in the end times, as it says in the Bible, they'll go to the real Jesus after they die and they'll say, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesying your name? Did we not heal in your name? And he's going to say, away from you, you worker of iniquity. I never knew you because they weren't following the real Jesus. They were following this demon that pretends to be Jesus. It's really dangerous. In terms of a grave-soaking, if we could circle back to that. Bethel and a lot of the hyper-charismatic churches

talk about the anointing to prop up these so-called apostles, and they say the reason that the apostles can't be questioned and must be obeyed is because they're anointed. Well, anointing is something that was done in biblical times by God. You know, King Saul was anointed by the prophet Samuel, by God's decree. These are self-appointed apostles, self-appointed anointed people. And so in the Bethel world, they value, actually worship this dead guy who was a so-called prophet apostle. And they go to his grave to try to suck up his anointing. Oh, that just gives me the creeps. It's horrible. It's so macabre. And then if you watch a Bethel sermon, you'll see people have got their coats on the stage. They've thrown their

coats. And they're supposedly soaking up the anointing of whoever speaking that's called a mantle, which means coat. And they've just twisted the Bible to think that you can absorb someone's apostle anointing with your coat on the stage. I mean, just nutty things like that. So let's just say somebody says, okay, Doreen, I'm with you, the sermons from Hillsong, et cetera. are real weird, they're dangerous. I don't agree with them. However, I love the music. You talked about how you and your husband

loved the music of Hill's song. And if I'm listening to the music, but I'm using it, and I know my intentions are good, I am truly worshiping the Lord when I listen. Why is that bad? Well, if you really, really, really know your Bible and you compare every verse of a song to Bible, fine.

Go ahead and listen to it. But know that they have openly said things. that Bill Johnson, the head of Bethel Church, has said that music bypasses the intellectual barriers. And they use these music from Elevation Hill Song and Bethel as marketing fishing poles to draw people in to their false gospel churches. So you better be really astute on your Bible or it's dangerous to listen to the words of their song. They paint Jesus in romantic terms, you know, I mean, reckless love that's so blasphemous. and these songs have earworms. I mean, they've got catchy hooks,

but you're going to be repeating lyrics to yourself that are not biblical, and that's just really dangerous. I mean, there's some beautiful, solid hymns you can listen to as an alternative. I love listening to the kind of old classic hymns as I'm driving, and they've been re kind of imagined by modern artists,

like Sovereign Grace and Scripture Lullabom your lullabies and such that so they're they've got you know more of a catchy beat and such but they're grounded in scripture and we have to be really careful to make sure that we stay on that narrow path what about somebody like joel ostein oh boy yeah joel ostein openly says that he's not going to tell anyone to repent or that they're a sinner because that's just not what he does but that's the bible the bible says that to be saved you must repent repent is metanoia in Greek, it means to change your mind. It means to walk away from your sinful lifestyle. I mean, all Christian sin. We're all sinners. Romans 323 says that. But Joel Osteen openly teaches

motivational speaking. He's a motivational speaker. He's a prosperity speaker. He admits he doesn't share the gospel because he knows it'll offend people. Look, one of the things that goes on with these mega churches that I was going through as a new age teacher is that you've got so many expenses after a while. I mean, Joel Osteen's his big stadium, that's a huge, huge mortgage he has to pay. And he depends on having people in the seats, giving him lots of money to make that mortgage payment. If he sat there and said the gospel every week, it would take a while before the people who don't want to hear that left and the new people who do want to hear solid came in. and he could get upside down financially.

That's how I was in the new age. You know, I had a 50-acre ranch, tons of employees, taxes to pay. And it was like you have to keep working like an indentured servant to the devil to keep the money coming in. We talked about people who, you know, aren't psychics and mediums and things like that in the new age. But what about Christians who say they have the gift, the spiritual gift of priests? prophecy. Is that a real thing? Well, it could be. I mean, the Bible's filled with prophets. I'm not going, I am a cessationist, but I'm open to anyone who has the same kind of prophetic gift that is shown in the Bible. So all the prophets, and I've studied them, I remember I've got a master's in biblical and

theological studies, and I had to do papers on every prophet and really, really study them. Every one of them were calling people to repent. The modern prophets don't do that. They're like psychics who are saying, oh, you're going to find your soulmate. Oh, you're going to get a raise. Oh, you're going to have your dream job. That's not what a biblical prophet is. And the Bible says that any prophet who gets something wrong is subject to the death penalty. And the modern prophets, I don't think any one of them would say that they're 100%. But the biblical prophets were 100%. All they kept saying was, repent and come back to God, come back to obeying God. I don't see any modern prophets doing that. I have two more questions for you. How do you know that now you are following the real Jesus?

It's a good question. It's something that every Christian should ask themselves. Galatians 5 gives us indication that when we're saved, we have the fruit of the spirit. And so we have joy and peace. peace and self-control. And it's something that we're always working on. The Bible also says that when you are truly saved, and that means that you're in Christ, that you will have godly sorrow when you sin. We all sin. But when you're not saved, you're kind of like, no big deal. You know, hey, it made me happy. It seemed to work. But when you're saved, you grieve. It breaks you when you sin. And you're on your knees repenting. And so I see that fruit in myself and I compare who I know Jesus to be with what the Bible says and it all adds up. How do we know that Christianity and believing and repenting to Jesus Christ

is the only guaranteed way to heaven? Because so many people say there's all these different things and ways to get to heaven and religions and denominations. Yeah, the devil's really good. He's the father of lies. Jesus said so. I mean, he's seductive. He wants to tempt people to follow him into hell, which was created for the devil and his fallen angels. He wants to drag as many souls to hell as he can, and he'll say anything to get there. But when you really trust Jesus and his words in God's infallible, inherent scripture, and he says in John 14, 6, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life and no one gets to the father except through me. And he talks more about hell than anyone else in the Bible.

I mean, you either believe Jesus or you don't. I believe Jesus. If someone is listening to this podcast today, Doreen, and they feel completely convicted, they're like, oh, my goodness, I am dabbling in the new age. I never realized it until now. What should they do? Well, they should get on their knees unless they've got a physical. issue that doesn't let them get on their knees and just pour your heart out to God.

I mean, King David in the Psalms, he gave us the perfect model for prayers, as did Jesus with the Lord's prayer, where we can just tell God anything. We don't have to feel ashamed about our normal feelings. I mean, God already knows how we feel. He knows every inch of our heart. And so just tell God, you know, I kind of enjoyed this and I'm afraid to give up that and what will people think and what about my income? all your fears, everything about your seduction of the New Age methods, whether it's astrology

or yoga or enneagram or, you know, you're using essential oils like an idol. Wait, is essential oils bad? Well, a lot of witchcraft involves doing spells on essential oils, and that's crept into the church through Dutera and Young Living, which oils are made by God, okay? It's like crystals. God made crystals and God made oils. But if you make them into idols where you think they have a special power or you're using this bottle of oil that young living says will give you financial abundance if you buy it, that's witchcraft. That's not how God intended it. Same with crystals. If you're using the crystals for a spell for a special, you know, like you elevate them above God with their power, that's idolatry. And that's what the New Age is founded. on is having things and methods above God. Doreen Virtue dropping bombs. I think even some Christians are going to go, oh, my gosh.

You know, they're going to not be very happy with you. It's okay. Bring it. As long as God's happy with me, that's all that matters. I love that. Doreen, thank you so much for coming on the spillover today. I want you really quick. I know that there's a hundred things that people are probably wanting, you know,

wishing I had time to ask. You know, what about this? What about this? Your YouTube channel does a great job go deep. into exact certain subjects and why they're wrong or they're okay or whatever. Explain everywhere that people can find you on social media what you've got going on and where they can learn more from you. Absolutely. Well, the starting place is my Instagram, Doreen Virtue, and you can send me a letter there. As long as you're kind, even if you disagree with me, I will reply. It might take

me a while because I'm the only one. Or, you know, YouTube, as you said, Doreen Virtue for F-O-R-G-E-S-E-S-E-S-F-O-R-G-E-S, and Facebook, Doreen Virtue. Doreen, thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much, Alex. God bless. Oh my gosh. I am shook from this conversation. I know some of you are super ticked off. You're rare to go. You're ready to get on your phone. Send me an angry DM. Send Doreen an angry DM. And some of you might be like, holy crap, my eyes have been opened. I feel like I'm seeing things that, you know, I never saw before. Things have been revealed to me that have never been revealed before. And I'm just so grateful that Doreen joined us today because I love anyone who has such hot takes on just about anything, and Doreen has a lot.

And maybe they were too spicy for you. And you vehemently disagreed or you feel convicted about something and now you want to totally change your life. I have no idea what your story is, but I would love to hear it. You know, the spillover is an extension of my daily show on Instagram Poplix, where I cover pop culture without the leftist propaganda every day in just a few minutes. And I always say on that show that when I have some major gossip to spill, I'm spilling the conservate.

And that's what the spillover is and what the name means. It's all the conservatee that I can't fit into just a short poplitex episode. And every interview on the spillover is dramatically different, but you can be sure that all of them are mind-blowing, they're challenging, they're interesting, and you will hear or learn something that you've never heard or learned before. Whether you agreed or disagreed with Doreen, leave a five-finding. Star Review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Some of you've said that you prefer to watch interviews and not listen.

You absolutely can. Subscribe to Poplitics on YouTube and all of the interviews of The Spillover are posted right there. New episodes of The Spillover are posted every single week. I'm Alex Clark. This is The Spillover. Love you, Meenit. Bye.