Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - Dirty Secrets of Chain Restaurants | Chef Andrew Gruel

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Is the seafood you’re eating a SCAM? Are Michelin stars just fancy nonsense? And WHY is tipping getting so out of control?! We’re diving deep with Chef Andrew Gruel—Food Network star, founder of Slapfish, and CEO of American Gravy Restaurant Group.From judging on Chopped Junior to launching a new family-friendly cookbook with BRAVE Books, Chef Gruel brings the heat with insider stories on food, family, and the future of dining in America 🍽️ If you eat food (uh, that’s you), you NEED to hear this! Thank you to our sponsors! 😊Geviti | Skip the waitlist and get 20% off first month using code "ALEX"⁠Cozy Earth⁠ | Use code "ALEX" for 40% OFFZebra⁠ | Use code "ALEX for 10% OFFMasa Chips⁠⁠ | Use code "REALALEXCLARK" for 20% OFFA’del Natural Cosmetics | Use code "ALEX" for 25% OFFOur Guest:⭐️ Chef Andrew GruelInstagramX NEW Family Cookbook | Andrew Gruel's Family CookbookFavorite Book | Confessions of an Economic HitmanFavorite Recipe | Anthony Bourdain's Veal Shanks Top Tip | We need to spend more time in the kitchen, learning about food and understanding where it comes from.🎀Follow Alex🎀Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠New 'Culture Apothecary' Merch OUT NOW! Glass tumblers, weekly wellness planners, hats, crewnecks and more. Use code "Alex Clark" for 10% OFF at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tpusamerch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the Cuteservatives Facebook group to connect with likeminded friends who love America and all things health and wellness!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the CUTEservative Facebook Group!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.This show is made possible with generous donations from listeners who believe in our mission to heal a sick culture.You can support our show by leaving a tax deductible donation⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or by subscribing to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube for FREE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠#cultureapothecary #food #redlobster #health #wellness #restaurant #seafood #foodnetwork #andrewgruel #podcast

You agree that tipping culture is completely out of control. They started making sure that you would tip in every single area so you could subsidize their wages. Government gets highly involved in the way in which somebody does business, and then you end up having these unintended consequences, i.e. tip screens, every single place you go. What's the real deal when it comes to eating seafood in America? Are Michelin stars all they're cracked up to be, or is it all just hype? And why has tipping culture become so out of control? If these are the burning questions on your mind, you're in for a treat,

today. We're sitting down with the one and only chef, Andrew Gruel, a food network star and the founder of Slapfish, the wildly popular seafood chain with over 15 locations. Chef Grul is here to spill the secrets behind the seafood industry, restaurant culture, and a whole lot more. Trust me, you're not going to want to miss this. From politics to Maha, he has an answer for everything. He's teamed up with brave books to create a brand new family Christian and conservative-based cook that's all about creating nourishing meals kids will love to cook and eat. Get ready for an eye-opening conversation about food, family, and the future of dining in America. Watch this episode on the Real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Culture Apothecary on Spotify.

And don't forget, leave a five-star review to support the show for free. Or if you are an OG fan and you want to support in a really big way, we are completely donor-funded. If you donate to the show in the link through the description, it will be tax deductible. It is tax season, so something to consider. Please welcome Celebrity Chef Andrew Gruel to Culture Apothecary. You own your own restaurant. you are a professional chef and yet you agree that tipping culture

is completely out of control. How did we get here? How do we stop it? For God's sakes. Why do I have to tip every single person 20, 25% now every time I go out for even a coffee? Well, it actually stems from

a lot of the mandatory labor laws and everything that's happened within kind of the labor framework in the restaurant industry, especially through the pandemic. Because if you remember during the pandemic, it was all about like, we need to pay more and we need a living wage.

There was a massive control in the media with like this kind of quasi-socialist Bolshevik workers movement. And it took place in the restaurant industry because we were one of the only industries that was open. I recall this because I remember going on Tucker and saying that part of the reason people weren't working was because they were getting so much in unemployment benefits and the government was subsidizing people not to work. And that was when we started getting like death threats and emails. It was like screw you. We're going to come after you. They showed up at our businesses. I mean, true story, right? Just from speaking out about in that regard. And it was all

about the big bad business owner. So then the states came in, especially places like California, New York, Michigan, and they started increasing all of these mandatory minimums, not just with wages, but also like time off requests and then like paid time off, which is a certain calculation, especially in California. And the costs got so high on these businesses that they could no longer pay above this new mandatory minimum wage. And so they started pushing it off to the guests. They started making sure that you would tip in every single area so you could subsidize their wages. So in a way, the businesses are subsidizing, but by virtue of all of this government control within the food and restaurant industry. So sorry, long-winded answer for your come-in

question, but that's technically how it happens. So in conclusion, government gets highly involved in the way in which somebody does business, and then you end up having these unintended consequences, i.e. tip screens every single place you go. So as a professional chef, I mean, tell me a little bit about your story. Did you always have your eyes open to big food, or did that come later on in your career? Always, always. So actually, like, the movement and my interest in food and food systems started first. I went to a small liberal arts college. I studied environmental literature and piano performance philosophy. Like, I was like that guy. Well, you got that piano player. Look, I'm not even shocked to hear you say that. You literally

could play a piano player at a movie or something. It's the weird fingers, but I've cut most of them off now in the kitchen. But it was, it's funny because it was up in Maine, right? Like New England, small private school. And like I always make the joke that I was basically being indoctrinated to protest capitalism. But my eyes had opened up because I was involved in politics. high school model UN, youth in government, all of that, and came from like a very kind of faith-based family. I had my eyes open to it. And when I got into like the environment and the environmental element of it and understanding where our food comes from, I realized that, whoa, something's wrong here, right? And that's when I started looking at it more from that big massive corporate

consolidation perspective and what's really happening. Then totally independently, I got into food and food systems. I was a lobstering when I was up in Maine. I was spending more time in the kitchen than I was in class. I love the kind of pirate ship nature of like the back of the house, like Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential, all that stuff was real when I got into kitchen, fell in love with it. That was the art element and went right into culinary arts, dropped out of college. But all while I was then in food going through doing my apprenticeship, traveling around the world cooking, I was thinking about where does this come from, right? Like, what is food about? Now, in the early or late 90s, early 2000s, there was this big movement called the Slow Food Movement in Italy.

Yes. I vaguely remember hearing about this. It was like the little snail was their logo. And basically what they did was it was this organization of just heirloom restaurants and chefs and food producers that came together and were like, we're going to certify restaurants and food production places with this little snail. And it means that it has to be like an heirloom seed. And everything has to be done according to tradition, very European, right, like Tuscan, French. And I got obsessed with that because they started producing public. Publications, literature, not books, but like magazines and publications. And then me and my friends would trade them and be like, oh, did you get the new slow movement

like publication? And you read about what they're doing in all these areas in Europe. And I got obsessed with it. And I'm like, why aren't we doing that here in the United States? And this was back in like 2001, 2002. Yeah, it was really early in GMOs. It just came on the scene. Mid-90s was when they started introducing all that engineering.

And it hadn't even been talked about. And you're right. So that was then Alice Waters started speaking out about it, who was a prologue. leftist in the in the the political space but from a food perspective what she was doing wolfgang puck some of the kind of California culture and cuisine in the in the late 1980s early 919 19 19 19 my 1800s 19 yeah there we go uh what they were doing was at the forefront of that and that's the era in which I was studying from those types of chefs so it was always inherent in what I did it was just about quality sustainability serving the right types of food and thinking about the

regeneration of agriculture. Did you have an aha moment as a chef like, what the hell am I feeding people? Yeah, that was probably in 2008, 2009. So the economy took a turn and I was running a couple restaurants in New Jersey and I lost my job. I was like, I'm either going to go restaurant, open a restaurant in New York City, or I'm going to follow through on a passion project of mine. Always knew it was food, but I also love the ocean where food connects with the ocean, marine stewardship and the way in which our food actually, in many cases, always stitches back to the ocean. So I started a nonprofit at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach, California, fourth largest aquarium in the United States. And our focus was on getting chefs to serve more sustainable seafood,

right, the right types of seafood and educating chefs and consumers on the food system by way of seafood. And it was in that role that I started working with a lot of the major NGOs and nonprofit organizations to understand the flow of communication from government down through the NGOs to the consumer. And it was at that point where I had to my aha moment, I realized there's only three or four people controlling all of this. Yes. And you can look at it on a micro level with each industry or on a grand level with just our food system.

But like it's that way with seafood, food manufacturing, food policy, everything. It's just like a little bit of money that just keeps, well, it's a lot of money, but a little bit of people. And it recirculates and that information. And my role was to educate consumers in addition to chefs on everything food policy related with a focus on seafood. And it was at that time I realized how consumers are completely brainwashed about where our food comes from or they don't know. What do you mean by consumers are brainwashed about where food comes from? So they don't even understand where our food.

Like most consumers think that when they're eating at a restaurant in California, the fish is coming from that water right there. Where's it coming from? 80% of the seafood in the United States is imported. It's probably coming from China, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand. And why does that matter? Like, does it impact the quality of the food? Well, it's a quality, right? So number one, we can look at just the fact that only 2% of all imports, seafood imports, are inspected by the FDA. So if you did a random sub sample of like any of these imports, you're going to find tons of antibiotic residue, Malkite Green, which is like a fertilizer. I mean, all of these horrible chemicals have shown up. Drugs. Like, you'll actually find like cocaine residue in some of this stuff, especially with

some of the Latin American imports because the FDA can only expect like 2%. So that's number one. Number two, we have the best fishermen and food producers here in the United States, but yet we're exporting all of our seafood. Would you say then that the majority of seafood you're buying and consuming the United States, you wouldn't even touch it? Like, you've got to be real strategic about where it's coming from or seafood would maybe be bad for your health. Yeah. And the problem with that message, why I don't go too bold on that message, is that it's all about externalities, right, and trading consequences and negatives. So if I start telling everybody don't eat any seafood at all, then what are they going to eat? They're going to eat chicken, beef, pork, which is much higher in omega-6s is, which is only going to perpetuate that whole like omega-6 to omega-3 issue, which is what happens with the seed oils, right?

That imbalance of sixes to threes that leads to inflammation. I don't want people to be afraid of seafood, but yes, you are 100% correct. So if somebody is eating at a regular conventional, like, chain restaurant in the United States, what is going to be the best option? for me on the menu in the worst? First of all, I would ask right off the bat, like, is anything here U.S. wild, right? Like, is it caught in the U.S. And if they say yes, which there's always going to be an option that's like a U.S. seafood species, then I would go with that.

If not, I would get something from Canada or Mexico. And I know we're in this, like, kind of debate about imports and exports and tariffs. But like Canada and Mexico and Canada, you have the Department of Fish and Oceans. And in Mexico, they abide by most of our sustainable seafood standards. That we mandate that they do that. so we take their imports in. So I would say that generally, like in the continent, like NAFTA, right, we're doing the right thing with a lot of these fish stocks in this region.

So those, that would be secondary. Or I would just go for, I would ask about the meat, right? Like, I would order, I'm always going to go with beef over chicken. And then knowing where that, what farm it comes from. Like, where does it come from? What was it fed? Because even though, like, you can eat a ton of beef and chicken, which is fine, but a lot of them are grain fed now.

Yeah. So you're going to have that higher omega-6 profile, but I'll still take that any day over like the Chinese tilapia or swi or what have you. What is the real story about the lobsters at Red Lobster? They invested millions of dollars into trying to farm lobster in East Asia, and it didn't work. And then what they did was they actually bought into the supply chain. So they actually started buying a lot of the seafood distributors so that they could

vertically integrate. They've got operations overseas, Thai Union, that they're importing a lot of their seafood. So a lot of the lobster is the Maine or New England lobster, but then a lot of the lobster is also like slipper lobster or rock lobster, warm water lobster that's brought in from overseas. If you want to eat real lobster, you've got to eat Maine lobster. Oh. And that's lobster with a clause on.

Okay. It's easy to differentiate. Now, there's a great place that I love anytime, every single time I'm in New York City, I have to go to Chelsea Market, and there is a lobster place in there. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what? It's like the lobster pot or. It might be like the lobster palace or the lot.

It might be the lobster market or something like that. And you get, you know, a little, like, paper boat. And they give you the lobster with the claws on. And I will sit there and I will eat one. And I look forward to it every trip. Every time I'm there, I have to go there. It's my place. Yeah.

And that's great because the main lobster fishery is the most iconic fishery in the United States. And it is the prime example of how fishermen can manage their own resources as opposed to, like, a shadow government, right? So when the government comes in and says, here's all the standards, here's your catch quota. And like, you know, you're fine if you do. X, Y, and Z, the fishermen are thinking, we're the guys out on the ocean. We're the ones taking care of the environment. We don't need this random guy sitting in an office in Washington, D.C.

to tell us what to do based on some number he put into a spreadsheet. We need, it is inherent in our job to make sure that the stock that we're fishing is sustainable for our future generations so that our kids have jobs and they can take the fishing boat out. So why would we overfish our own stocks? And what's cool about the main lobster fishery is like, the fishermen have all these little mechanisms by which, like, for example, they'll pull a lobster out that maybe has eggs or that's too small. They'll put a notch in the tail so that other fishermen know if they pull that same lobster and they see a notch in a tail, throw it back. That's not a government tool, a government control piece. Those are the fishermen themselves. So it's kind of this public

versus private property approach where if we as citizens can manage our resources better than an a priori or kind of a shadowy government. Would you eat crawfish? Yeah, I'd eat crawfish out of Louisiana, I mean, U.S. crawfish, not Chinese crawfish. Red Lobster is struggling. Like, they're closing restaurants left and right. So if you were to all of a sudden overnight, inherit Red Lobster and take it over and say, okay, I've got one shot to revive this chain. What would you do? That is a great question. And when I think about a lot, actually, mainly because the first thing I would do is I would hire Jesse Kelly on as the CEO of Red Lobster. Jesse Kelly from Texas, the commentator. Yeah, Jesse Kelly from the first.

Why? Because all he does is talk about Red Lobster. He says it's the most like I didn't know that. Oh yeah. So like if you right now went online and typed Red Lobster, what's the first thought that came to mind? I guarantee you your comment section would be Jesse Kelly. Hilarious. People do not appreciate Red Lobster.

It's thought of as some kind of, I don't know why. I don't know why it's not thought of where it should be as the pinnacle of American cuisine. Look, it's hard. I'm trying to get choked up. Red Lobster. You know, the preempt. premier seafood restaurant in the United States of America.

They're filing for bankruptcy. Chapter 11 bankruptcy. So it hurts to see this happen to an American institution like this. I don't know how I personally will go on, but I will try. Red Lobster has been the peak of American seafood forever, and I am legit upset about it. Red Lobster? They're not only out of bankruptcy. They're out of bankruptcy with a brand new CEO.

If you're one of the people who very rudely email be, ha, ha, ha, Jesse, your favorite restaurant's going down. Well, eat your words now. And you know what? I have something else to say. If you're one of the people who mocked Red Lobster to me, you don't get to eat there ever again. You are banned from Red Lobster.

Me? Well, that's where you'll find me this Friday. Like, all the time. And it's hilarious, too, because he'll be like, I took my wife out to the finest restaurant in the United States. It's like a picture of the two of them at Red Lobster. Yes. Okay, so you're putting him as the spokes guy in the commercials.

And he's very funny and dynamic. So he would pop off the screen. Literally pop off because he's like seven foot 11. Yeah. Then the next thing that I would do is that I would connect with five or 10 local fisheries or docks around the United States. And I would say we are exclusively serving these five or six U.S. species for the next six months, right? I'd call it the summer of sustainability. And I would tell the story about those fish.

And that's the fish on the menu. Then I would say, we are only serving. main lobster. I would make sure that we had like main lobstermen in, pictures of the main lobster. Like you're getting rid of the biscuits? No, no, I would keep the biscuits. I would keep the biscuits, but I would use beef tallow. I wouldn't use the, I'm pretty sure that they use palm oil

or soybean oil. So I'd redo that recipe. I would switch all the friars to tallow only. This is a dream. And I would do like fried clams, New England clam bellies. I would do fried clam rolls, lobster rolls. I would create a menu that was like $5 to $15 where you can go in and get a fried clam roll and a basket of like tallow fries, right? So now we can bring in more people

so they can eat good food that's approachable and make it all American. Like, feature the fishermen. Because right now I know for a fact, I probably shouldn't say too much, but a significant amount of red lobster seafood is imported. Oh, well, I'm not surprised about that. I mean, at all.

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I mean, you were fine dining if you were going to like Longhorn or Red Lobster. Yeah. That's how I grew up. And then any time I go back and visit my. mom or my family. It's like the same type of thing. And now I'm like trying to introduce someone. I'm like, let's go to Sweet Green. Have you heard of this? Like I'm trying to like introduce my family to other things. It's been very interesting. So we know Indiana very well. We opened three restaurants there. Oh, where? Tell us. What is it? We were, we were in Indianapolis proper and then we were up in

Carmel. Is it still there? Is it still there? Yes. So our original concept was called slapfish. Yes. Okay. And it was our best market in the United States. Why do you think that is? Because we're just, we're starved there for real food, let me tell you. Yeah, but also there's the learning curve isn't as sharp. We tried opening and gosh, we were in D.C., Maryland, Virginia, West Coast, like L.A.

At one point, we started as a food truck. We grew to like 35, 40 locations over a six or seven year period. Lauren and I and we were franchising. So we were in all these different states. Best Market, Indiana, because when you taught them about good food and I told these stories of sustainability, they wanted that. Because they're

also, this is, you're talking about largely blue collar families, who understand small farms, you know, and like all that kind of stuff. And like, what makes America run, you know? And so I think they probably are really bought into that story. They were. And that's the thing is they were willing to try something new. Let's make Indiana healthy again. This will be my new mission. I love this. Are you concerned about bird flu and raw milk? And is raw milk being unfairly targeted about bird flu? Oh, of course it's being unfairly targeted. There's absolutely nothing to be worried about when it comes to raw milk and bird flu transferring human to human

or whatever, however you want to kind of fearmonger it. Also, what we're seeing in regards to bird flu in general, we got to remember, they killed millions and millions and millions of birds, healthy birds, in order to avoid any theoretical spread of bird flu. Yeah, which was weird to me. Very weird. My theory here is like they're trying to spread this bird flu stuff. I don't even think it's necessarily to get us to not drink raw milk. I think they're trying to be able to come out with some new vaccine for the poultry. Yeah, of course. I think that's what this is about. I don't think it's about like they hate that we like raw milk, which they do, but I don't think they care that much about it. And I agree with you. The vaccine could be a potential takeaway, right? But I don't

even look at the government as being that well organized to be able to have a specific goal. I think they have many goals and they throw spaghetti at the wall. So it's like, okay, we're going to fear Manger, we're going to create this, this horrible situation all in the name of safety. Sounds familiar, right? So there's this bird flu that's spreading. And some of the people that are within the organization that are like, look out for this. They might be well-intended, good scientists and people who are doing the research. And there might be a theoretical small, small, small percentage chance risk.

But it doesn't matter. Those people, their job is to find any risk, right? So instead of looking at it as a whole and saying, okay, well, look, no reason to panic. We've seen this before. All we need to do is X, Y, and Z. Let's do that. Then they're like, okay, well, we kill all the birds, right? Egg prices go up.

Okay, not a bad thing. Trump's coming in. We can blame that on him. And we can blame raw milk. And they already are. And he's been in the office for a couple weeks at the time we're filming this. And then it's like, oh, and we can blame it on raw milk. theoretically, not a bad thing.

We've been trying to do that anyway. Oh, and a new vaccine. Not a bad thing because look where we're getting all of our money. Oh, and people eat less eggs, which is something we've been pushing for anyways. So now they have to move to plant-based meat. Not a bad thing. You see, so they're like, oh, that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

It's almost like they don't even know exactly what they're looking for, but by virtue of the fear. It's casting a wide net. They're going to have some takeaways. Are food deserts a myth created by big grocery? So they're actually not a myth. They're a real thing. And food deserts do exist. But most of the times the food deserts are actually created by virtue of local zoning ordinances.

And I know this. My mother's an urban planner. And she's the redeveloper from cities all throughout. New Jersey and in the general New York region. When I spoke to her about food desert, she said most of the time they will not zone for any grocers, either small, medium, or large. In the event they do it for a large grocer, it's a payoff, right? So you might get a Walmart or Target or a larger grocer, an Aldi or a trader Joe's even. So what happens is that then they don't zone for them, but that's good Because then the big food manufacturers, the grocers, most of whom have merged, mind you, it's a monopoly right now.

Because like Kroger is merged with Albertsons, who's merged with Vons, right? Like they're all one big company now. Then they control the market more. So they actually create the food deserts by virtue of that consolidation. And it's the local governments that almost perpetuate the desert-like environment. What is your opinion on Trump's diet as a Maha supporter? And do you trust that he's actually going to do these things when it comes to fixing our food and chemicals in the water and the air like he's saying? There's nothing I hate more than a liar.

And the one thing we know about Trump is that he's not a liar. He does exactly what he says. And when it comes to food, he's not saying, look, I'm out there doing 300 pushups a day and eating seed oil free food. He's saying, I love my Diet Coke. I'm going to have a milkshake after dinner. I'm going to eat my burger. That's me. but I'm also going to fix this system so that we can help small and medium-sized farmers and good food producers,

and therefore I brought in RFK Jr., and I'm going to let him do it. That's honesty. That's transparency. So do I hate what he eats? No, because I'm kind of a libertarian, to let people do what they want. The key, and I think Trump recognizes this, is that I don't care what you eat, you eat, you eat. As long as the information is clear and honest for you to make an educated decision, So labeling, making sure vaccine information isn't bought off and there's not special interest in there.

And then number three, make more products accessible to the consumers so we're not stuck with like six bags of potato chips all from the same producer. Doesn't it fascinate you that President Trump is the age that he is? We know he doesn't sleep. And he eats the way he does. And yet nobody has more energy than him. He's just out there days on days and days. I mean, those couple days leading up to the election, he was not. on stop. And I was like, I don't understand. I mean, it goes against everything that I talk about, everything that I talk about on the show, about how we should eat and live or whatever, you're going to fall apart. And yet somehow he's still going. How? I think what we saw coming into the election, like, especially towards the end. I mean, I think that there was, there was some faith there was a larger, more divine energy behind him. He even said that when he narrowly got assassinated, like, you know, he really thought that he was saved by God, like the hand of God came down. I think there's some faith-based motivation.

there. But I think just generally, he's an anomaly. He is. I mean, there's always I'm just saying that it's just interesting doing all this. Obviously, voted for Trump three times, huge conservative, lifelong conservative, you know, all of that. But I do think it's funny. I'm like, man, everything that I tell everybody, it's like, then we have this guy who's like our leader and he's able to kind of get around all of it somehow. I don't know. It's a mystery. He should be studied, honestly. But also look at how much he moves, right? He moves. He probably has 20,000 steps a day. I mean, you guys moving all the time. He golfs like every 20 minutes. That's true. Right before I came in here, I saw, oh, he was golfing again. And then he's going to give like

some keynote speech, right, to world leaders. So the guy's moving, he's going. You posted on X before that California's regulations are killing small businesses faster than a grease fire. What is going on in California specifically that's making it nearly impossible to stay afloat as a restaurant owner? Well, I talked about the labor piece in the beginning, right? So obviously all the labor piece. They also have things like PAGA, which is the Public Attorneys General's Act, which is where they gave employees the right to sue and create a class action lawsuit on behalf of the labor commissioner. So it was basically the government saying, we don't have enough resources in the labor department to go after all of these businesses, which they're always trying to do,

because they hate businesses, they hate entrepreneurs. So we're going to let employees file lawsuits on behalf of the labor commissioner. It's the only state in the country that has PAGA. Every other state's Constitution or Supreme Court has knocked it out. So PAGA has ripped businesses off left and right. And then every single day, it's something new. I mean, I could sit here for probably an hour and go through the regulations. Things like not allowing plastic gift cards. Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. And you think, like, oh, no big deal. Then just issued via email. Anybody over the age of 55 wants a plastic gift card. You're right. You are so right about that. And that's just one, right? And then the junk fee laws, which are going to target small businesses,

because if you now put on like a fee, is a tip of fee, is this a fee, is it not a fee? Liquor license laws. Now restaurants who have bars and have a liquor license have to provide roofy kits, right? Which, don't get me wrong, like, that's a big issue, but why are we putting agency on the government and not the person to protect themselves, right?

So it's just all of these little things. They sit there in Sacramento because they have a super majority, and they think about new ways that they can hurt small businesses so that the government can take over and be the one in control of everything. As a conservative and a health conscious chef, should we ban gas stoves? Never. I mean, gas stoves, first of all, are better for the environment. The only way in which we actually cut all of the carbon emissions as required by our Congress from 2000 to 2010 was by decreasing fossil fuels and introducing natural gas, right? Number one. Number two, let's just hypothetically play the game and say that we do ban gas stoves.

Well, where do you think the electricity is coming from? Fossil fuels. The lion's share of electricity is driven by fossil fuels. So we're going to get rid of natural gas to now have an inefficient energy source that still requires fossil – will increase fossil fuel production. Yeah, you're right. That doesn't make any sense because that still puts them in the situation of, like, you have to support this that you also don't support. All electricity is driven by fossil fuels, but it's one step away from the source. Natural gas is direct.

So to get that extra mile or 10 miles or 100 miles, you have to produce. more of it. So you're actually going to produce more theoretical pollution if you do that. How can we realistically decentralize the food system? First and foremost, you get rid of all the government contracts, right? So think about it. The USDA last year alone spent $18 billion on buying food, on literally buying food. So the USDA is the largest purchaser of food in the United States. And where do they buy it from? Three major corporations. And where does that go? That goes to the National School Lunch Program, it goes to food deserts, actually, right? And then the third is it goes international. So when we provide food to other countries all around the world through a lot of this

USAID stuff we're seeing, they're buying it from farmers or they're buying it from food producers. And of the $20 billion or whatever, $18 billion, I would suggest that maybe $9 billion goes to actually buying it. And the other $10 billion is for special interest, goes into people's pockets, contracts, three major producers. We have hundreds of thousands of farmers in the United States. So completely get the government out of the food system, deregulate, let small and medium size farmers sell there, and fishermen sell directly to restaurants, to consumers across state lines, which is Thomas Massey's Prime Act.

Get all of those regulations and watch how quickly small and medium-sized farmers flourish in the United States. Okay, question, because you brought up Massey. So Massey was my choice for USDA. Yay. I was devastated. Me too. What is your opinion on Trump's pick with Brooke Rollins for that role? Trump's a loyalty guy, right?

So he's obviously going to kind of, it's a quid pro quo with him. And I appreciate that. People who have been loyal to him. He's going to give them a position. He's going to put them in a role. Brooke Rollins obviously knows the industry well. People have come after her for being an insider and a seed oil executive, which I understand. What I would like to immediately hear is I've worked on the inside and I've seen how bad it is.

and I know how the game works, therefore on the best person to flip it upside down. I haven't heard that yet. Right. And that concerns me. I can only imagine behind the scenes, RFK Jr. must have been in Trump's ear. You're like, please don't. Please don't. Well, and I just posted this morning that you know Trump is watching X like a hawk.

Yes. And we have influence. Okay. I just was interviewed on somebody else's podcast about this. And she was like, you know, asking me like, how much do I trust Trump and his motivations with Maha and all this. And I said, we have so much more power than you think because this man wants to be liked more than anything else in the entire world. And so he is actually looking and he's asking all of his people in his administration like, what they say about this decision? What they say

about this decision? I mean, that's how he is. Like we know how he is. So he does watch what's trending and how people respond. So if all of a sudden everybody's like, whoa, we do not like this. And we're all banding together. Like, for example, the people that care about health and wellness and food and seed oil or whatever. If we're all putting up. posting like, we do not like this decision, he's going to start asking people in his administration, like, why are they saying that? Like, tell me, what is it about Brooke that I don't know? So, and, you know, like, I am with you where I'm like, I have a sliver of hope is that maybe she's had a come to Jesus moment and she's like, whoa, like everything that I used to believe or whatever,

now I've changed my mind. Because for me, I mean, a couple years ago, I did not believe or care about any of this. I was the seed oil chicken nugget queen. And now all of a sudden I have a freaking health and wellness podcast and I'm testifying at the Senate on chronic disease. It's mind-blowing. So I'm like, if it can happen to me, maybe it has happened to her. But yeah, you're right. We haven't heard that from her. So it would be nice. Or maybe because she's in the sphere and, you know, the maha movement is going and now she's going to be rubbing shoulders with RFK Jr. Maybe she's going to hear for the first time this science on seed oils and things like that. And she's going to be like, whoa, okay, well, this is all interesting.

I didn't know. And I also think people who are really built and stitched into government have always operated from this mindset of, well, I just need to do what the system does, right? We're in a world right now where the system is being flipped upside down and is effectively being thrown out. We're seeing it through Doge. We're seeing it through all of these different ways. She maybe now sees it as I've wanted to break free from these shackles and now I can. I can operate independently. And that's something that we saw with Trump too. In his first term, it was very much about fighting with the media and trying to course correct the reputation they were, you know, kind of painting of him. Now he doesn't care.

He's like, I don't have another term to run for. I know the people love me. I'm at the highest approval rating. And I can just be myself. So I think that's where we're going to see this entire, I call it like a reconciliation of the way in which government works. Is food becoming political a new thing or has it always been political, you think? Everything comes back to food. Food is both the great unifier and is the center point and the starting point of every single element of our policy, both economic and even militarily around the world.

Wars are fought over food, right? Like before we had currency, salt was currency. That's why it says you're worth your weight in salt, right? Like salt was the currency. Food was currency. And all of our macroeconomic policies were originally built into the government by way of commodity food pricing and food. distribution in trade. Let's talk about salt. I love salt. What is the deal with table salt and microplastics and real salt? What is real salt? And is salt actually good for us? Salt's great for us.

And we should be eating more salt. So when I see people say remove salt, once again, this is where the big food processor have screwed us. The only salt we shouldn't be eating is the salt that's baked into processed foods because it's all this chemically laden salt and it's hidden, right? When you add salt on your food at the end, that's great. That's what you want. I don't use table salt because it's got anti-caking agents in it, which is only in it by virtue of the aesthetics, right? What salt brand do you like? So I love Vera sea salt.

It's a microplastic three. I like Vera too. Yeah. I'll also use like a French sea salt, a fine sea salt, or we'll use like just a traditional kosher salt. Are you scared about lead? I eat pencils, so. That's a secret ingredient on his menu.

I always joke. My first tattoo ever, I have a lot of tattoos was on my finger right there. Oh, was that like. fifth grade. All of you boys are the same. It never changes. Every generation is the same. Is this potentially dangerous product going unnoticed in your daily routine? When it comes to floss, most of us don't think twice. But what if I told you that the floss you're using might be full of microplastics and chemicals? A lot of natural floss even is made from polyester. And when we use it, those microplastics can end up in our gums and bloodstream. Even worse, many floss brands

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I mean, wasn't that when the Titanic came out? That peanut butter is older than her relationship with their son. But here's the real issue. Seed oils were everywhere, including the peanut butter, from the chips to the dressings. It was like a seed oil horror show inside that cabinet. She had to take matters into her own hands. And I told her, you got to replace the seed oil laden snacks with Masa chips.

And now her in-laws pantry is looking better than ever. Mossa chips are made with organic corn. Grass-fed beef tallow and real sea salt. No fake ingredients, no preservatives, just the great tasting and good for you stuff. The crunch is perfect. The flavor is incredible. They're not super thin. I hate that when they break easy in your guac.

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Use code real Alex Clark for 20% off your first order. That's real Alex Clark for 20% off your first order at Masa Chips.com. It's pantry cleanout time. You've said that the FDA is a clown show, that you should be able to cook whatever you want. Can you elaborate on that? Well, let's just look at the facts. The FDA has only gotten bigger and bigger and bigger over the past 10 or 20 years, and we've only gotten sicker and sicker and sicker.

The primary metric upon which we keep funding them and funding them more, they've failed on. what would happen in the private market, everybody would be fired or the business would shut down. So bingo, right there, the FDA has completely failed. And I described it earlier when we talked about seafood, 2% of the imports being inspected. And they might say, oh, well, it's about the amount of people or we need more money.

It's like, no, use the money you got and prove to us you can do the job and you can. I think originally a lot of times these federal agencies were created to do nothing more than coordinate. It's like you need an assistance sometimes when you got a lot of work to do, right? Like they were assistants.

They were just little departments and little agencies. and but then they got manipulated by big business. You know, I always joke about Upton Sinclair, who wrote The Jungle, which like we all had to read in like third grade. Remember it was about the meat packing business in the early 1900s? Yep. Well, there was a lot of money that was given to Upton Sinclair through special interests to write this book to highlight all of these horrible stories from Big Meat because they

wanted more regulation. Oh, I need to reread this. Yeah. Like that is really interesting to me now. I'm like, ooh, I want to reread that knowing this. And that's what created the meat. the Meatpacking Act, and they wanted the regulation because what is regulation good for? Pushing small business out.

What is the biggest food industry fraud you've ever witnessed? Olive Oil. Are you anti-olove oil? No, I'm going to get hit by the mafia here. A lot of olive oils, most olive oils imported from Italy are cut with seed oils. So that's why I always say know where your olive oil comes from. And you'll taste the difference. I mean, we were just doing this cooking video.

We were with Dr. Drew the other day, and we were using a real fresh California olive oil. And when we like taste it, we're like, whoa, like, that is unbelievable because a true extra virgin olive oil is one of the most boldest, sometimes bitter flavors, bitter in a good way. Like, you know that kind of like good bitter? I know that's weird. Negroni type bitter. Yes. When America started going Mediterranean diet, Italian food, olive oils, this mafia in Italy started importing or exporting olive oils started importing or exporting olive oils cut with seed oils into New York City to their mafia. and it just proliferated all over the industry.

How do you think that we can tackle corruption in the food industry and change food policy for the better? Get rid of the government. I mean, I know that sounds crazy because... But we can't, though. We can because everything on a federal level is redundancy. But if we were to live... I mean, but it's just not...

I mean, I was just say it's not super realistic. Well, I don't mean get rid of government. What I mean is, like, downsize the agencies. I don't quite literally mean that, but you can decrease the size by like 80%. You know, someone will say to me like, oh, you don't want kids who are hungry to eat lunches, right? it's like no because the state still has the same power i don't think people realize how government

works frankly and it's a lesson in civics so if i give 20 billion dollars to the federal government for national school food lunches they're not making those lunches all they're doing is then using that money to create requests for proposals for a few massive manufacturers and creating a huge bureaucracy to then give rules to the people producing the food things like you've got to have seed oils in it when it comes to, like, baby formula. That same, like, silly, crazy construct will apply in school lunches. Then those food manufacturers take over the contracts on a local level or a state level, and then the government takes whatever money is left over after they've wasted it and given it to other corporations, and they give, like, 45 cents per student to the state

as a subsidy. All that money you think that you pay in taxes goes to feeding kids. It doesn't. 41 cents to each kid when we put 19 or 18 billion into national school food lunches. So if you as a professional chef are put in charge of public school lunches and totally reforming them, what would it look like in your eyes? Okay. So there would be no RFPs. You wouldn't need like a Compass Group or an error mark to be one of the only approved supplier. I would make sure that the approved suppliers were small local chefs and food producers, right?

So I would want to make sure that I bought at least 60 to 70 percent of the food from a 50, mile radius, and it could go out further in the Midwest. And then I would also want to make sure that 60 to 70% of the workforce came directly from that local community. There would be no contracts involved. The only money that I would take from the federal government is to actually invest in assets. So I would put commercial kitchens in every school or in every school system so that the food could be produced locally. And then that money would be, it would be depreciated off the federal budget, right, because it's an asset. So it's an investment. It's not just a give-a-war. and then you're actually stimulating the local economy by giving all those jobs.

And then what would be on the plate? Any local foods, right? So, like, people think that that's just going to be like an apple and a lot of vegetables. No, no. A lot of protein, right? Local meats, like sliced flank steak at three or four dollars a pound with, you know, like good roasted baby Dutch yellow potatoes and maybe, you know, kimchi or like pickled broccoli. That's a good food.

Bittersweet chocolate with raw milk ice cream as a dessert, right? Like drizzled on top. ice cream at public school lunch? Yeah. Yes. What is this Nirvana? I love it. So, like, I could go on, but you see where it's possible.

Like, that's not an expensive meal. How about just, like, really good grass-fed meatballs? Can you imagine? Which country do you think is doing public school lunch the best? Korea. Why? Food is integral to their day, right? And the same is the case in Italy and Spain, where they have siesta's in the middle of the day.

But in Korea, it's like, you eat at home and you constantly, eat with your family and you have heirloom recipes that go from generation to generation. So they care about where their food comes from. And when it's stitched into the kind of DNA of the culture, they're going to care about it in all the institutions. You've called out fake food influencers. What is that? Oh, boy.

I look to Lauren on this one. Well, here's what happens. You got people who have accounts and they build their accounts up pushing food products. Originally, it was all about like the big food, the food porn. and look at where this is. And then when that money dried up, they moved into product placement, right? Like, we all know the deals that we get emailed to us,

like, oh, here's your code and push this product. And then they push that product. And then they flip to the next hot product or the next restaurant. And they're just doing it for the money. None of them are doing it for a love of food and where the food comes from. And we saw that very clearly during the 2020, 2021 era of the pandemic when it was like,

if you didn't have the black square on Instagram, then you were like a horrible person and you get canceled. So then it became those food influencers were pushing political messages. And all of those food influencers that were really into food in the beginning now suddenly are talking about seed oils are great.

What do you mean? Seed oils aren't bad. It's like you're being paid to say that because you think it's cool to be hip and progressive and that's what, you know, the left is telling you to say. that's the nuttyest thing about all of this. Like I remember talking about seed oils five years ago,

and I think it was Vice came out, and they were like, what's up with like right-wing conspiracy theorists and seed oils? We stopped using seed oils at the restaurant like six years ago. Oh my gosh. This wasn't a thing that we promoted, and everybody was calling me a right-wing conspiracy theorist, now that it's becoming hip,

people like you were talking about it, like cool people, young people, people who are getting a following, all those other people I was just describing and denigrating, now suddenly they're like, oh, look, like the, here's a seed oil free this. And it's like, no, I don't want to hear it.

Okay, you can't flip sides like that. Okay, are we like in this new exciting era with restaurants where we are going to see like all these chains going seed oil free? Yes. And it's going to be done. 50% of it is what I call greenwashing. They're doing it because it's hip and it's cool. But so what?

Like, you know, that's great. And then the other 50% are I think are going to see that like a steak and shake that they did it. Okay, now we can do it because there's somebody out there who's taking. the first step forward. Do you trust steak and shake? Yeah, because I think that that's something that, like, if that gets out, like, that'll kill your brand forever. And all it takes is one hourly employee to say they're not really using beef tallow. But here's my thing with that. I'm like, okay, great, but I still wouldn't eat there because all the other stuff they're using,

I mean, in their food. You know what I'm saying? I agree with that. However, sometimes it's like, give them a little credit, you know, for doing the right thing. And then let's see if we can use that entryway, that gateway by virtue of the fats to get them to change some of the other stuff. Because the other stuff will actually be easier to change. That's just buying from a different purveyor or getting like chemical free foods. We got to put pressure on in and out. I don't understand. In and out is conservative owned, Christian owned. They're seeing the writing on the wall with all the maha movement and everything. You're going to let steak and shake, you know, get ahead of you on the seed oil free. Like, where's in and out in all this, don't you think?

And they've said they're not going to change it. I know. And I don't understand that. Yep. So I don't know if you follow seed oil disrespect or on HACS. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. Legend. Him and I put a concept together called comfy. It's raw milk milkshakes, 100% hand cut fries, beef towel only, did the whole thing. We've done the raise, right? Like, we're ready to launch it. And we're pretty much saying in and out, if you don't do it, like, we're going to do it and we're going to blow up because people want this. A national chain? Yeah, national chain. Oh, yes. Jesus. Yes. All the right stuff. But here's the thing. I'll say this really quickly. I'll be very brief. if McDonald's stepped out and said, we're going to go beef tallow with all of our fries, mark my words, 30 years from now, every single business class and every single business school is going to be like using that as a case study. You know, in 2004, there was this movement for beef towel and people would be like, wait, you don't cook with beef towel because then in my mind everyone will be using beef towel. And McDonald's stepped forward and changed it. And everybody said your stock price is going to drop.

And they've got Grimmis's head on a steak. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, it is such a no-brainer. I am blown away that it hasn't been done. I'm blown away that it hasn't been done. But I feel like we're inching closer and closer and, you know, sweet green and true food. And I just see it. As a professional chef, do you think fine dining and Michelin Stars are overrated?

Michelin Stars are overrated because they got politicized. What you mean? So originally Michelin Stars was about like the absolute best of the best, of the best, of the best, of the best in every single way. And it was so limited. And then they started creating all these different categories of like Michelin Star Street Food and Michelin Star, like if it's an equity-owned restaurant, they get better points. Oh, so there's DEI Michelin Stars? Well, DEI got stitched into the whole system. Oh, gosh.

Okay. So once that started happening, then for me it was all over. Same thing with the James Beard Award. It was all about, and I'll probably get completely canceled, but I don't care. They hate me anyway. The James Beard Award was like the coveted award. And now, you know, they've gone all 100% woke. and it's like, can we just get to the food?

I appreciate the story. Imagine a concept. Yeah, I know. I appreciate the story of the people cooking the food. Don't get me wrong. And that does translate to what hits the plate, but we don't need kind of a grading curve. Do you, after cooking all day or whatever,

then do you want to cook for your own family? Are you like, I can't even take one more second in the kitchen? Oh, yes. I want to keep cooking. It's apples to oranges, right? So in the kitchen, it's business. It's like it's more assembly, production. And then when I'm cooking for the family and we're cooking at home, like, it's just

pure chaos. It's a clown car. Well, it's like a favorite easy meal for your family. This is how we always do it. Lauren will come up with like some really cool, like, salad with a bunch of vegetables and, like, fermented vegetables and sauces and dressings. And I'm always throwing on a steak or like a roast that I grab from the restaurant. And then the kids pepper in what they want. So like each one of our kids likes different things. My son loves just dipping those little English cucumbers and salt and like kimchi juice. Yep. So he'll eat that.

And another one of my sons is like, oh, I just want like this fruit tossed up with like yogurt. So we all then have our own little side dish, almost like Korean food, right? You have all the side dishes. And then we've got like the meat. Lauren's like crazy over the top fermented vegetable salad and that's it. How early did you start your kids learning how to do things in the kitchen and what tasks do you think are good to start with?

When my son was able to sit up straight in a high chair, we used to put them at the end of the line in the kitchen. And he would sit there and eat his little toothing cracker watching all my line cooks cook and I would be on expo. He saw it from that point on, so probably like a year, a year and a half and all the other kids thereafter. Lauren and I run the businesses together. Okay. In 2019, we opened like 16 restaurants before we sold that concept. We also had a baby and had also another baby during the pandemic.

And they traveled with us. That's how we got into the turning point. Schools because our kids go to one because it's considered a charter school, home school program. in California, so we were able to take them out and have them travel with us. If you're listening and you have no idea what he's talking about, we have a really, really cool department at Turning Point USA that specifically

focuses on education and homeschooling and creating curriculums and, like, it's amazing. And there's all these little homeschool co-op hubs and stuff like all around the country, which is super cool. That's neat that you guys do that. Yeah. Who is the celebrity chef that you've met that you're like, this person's my dog? Like,

I love them. Like, they can come over anytime Like they're actually so cool. Jet Tila. Okay, tell us why. Well, he's just the most genuine guy in the world. He is an honest guy. We know him because we've done a lot of events with him and he used to co-host a radio show that I now host.

And he cooks amazing food, both him and his wife. They cook unbelievable food. What do you think about the career trajectory of Martha Stewart? I love it. I love it. Isn't it so cool. Did you watch that HBO docu series or whatever? I didn't watch it all.

Good. Yeah. She fascinates me. And then Ina fascinates me. Yeah. I love all things barefoot contessa, although I know she's a huge lib, so I just forget about that. Yeah. I mean, you know, food is a great unifier.

And that's the point is, is that, like, I've found that people who think that they're liberals really aren't when you start talking about food policy. Because when I'm like, hey, do you want to eat that raw milk cheese from France? They're like, oh, I love that cheese. I had it in Paris. Well, deregulate the government and you can. Okay, suddenly you're a libertarian. Can local beef save America, or is it too late? It can save America because local beef typically means better soil, regenerative agriculture, which is good for the environment.

Local beef is good for the local food community and economy. And we know that we need to be eating more beef. Eating more beef is going to save us, right? And it's going to help with all these issues we see from the chronic diseases. It's not going to be the panacea. It's going to help it a lot. So it can be one of the things that saves us. What I'm confused about when it comes to seafood is I've got people saying, you know, don't you dare ever eat farm raise?

That stuff is crap. It's horrible. But then now they're saying, well, don't even bother with the wild caught because they're all consuming plastic. So that's also horrible for you. So what is the solution there and what seafood should we eat? Yeah, and that's all propaganda, right? So there's a lot of money in getting you to eat either farm raised or just wild. But the real reality is that the answer is not that simple.

A lot of wild fish starts off in hatcheries, so it's kind of farm raised. I mean, 60% of the seafood in Alaska that's labeled as wild starts in hatcheries. Now, that's not fully farmed, but it's on the spectrum of farming. Every oyster, clam, muscle you've ever eaten is farmed, right? But those we know are not just good for the environment, and they actually filter out all the microplastics and particulates into their shells. But then would it be good to eat that? They filter it out, and it goes in their shell.

It's a natural filter feeder. So that's actually great. And not only by filter feeding, it gets the impurities out, and it cleans the ocean. So it's not as easy as saying yes or no, but I will say this. The United States is the only country, one of the only country. countries doesn't have an open ocean aquaculture policy. So we say we're not going to set up an aquaculture policy because we don't want to eat farm seafood, but then instead we import farm seafood. So why don't we just do it here? One example is in California, Hub C World, they created a program

where they actually did stock fortification. So the California white sea bass, which is the most delicious fish in the world, was commercially extinct. So what they did was they started raising hatchlings in like trays, feeding them in organic feed, etc., then growing them out in bigger pools, like eating what they would normally eat in the wild, no chemicals, nothing, and they release them into the wild. Then they started mating in the wild again.

They brought it back to its maximum sustainable yield. So if it wasn't for aquaculture or fish farming, which in a way that is, we never would have had that wild stock. So I think we need to find the balance between the two, and then we need to promote it and tell people about it. I was scrolling through Instagram the other day and I couldn't help but notice the clean girl aesthetic taking over. You know, the soft, glowing, natural makeup look that seems effortless but always flawless.

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that's not been cooked yet in your fridge, how many days is it good for in there? If it was really good when you got it, two to three days in. If you want to just try a new type of fish, like what's an underrated, like, oh, you should, if you want to be adventurous, look for this on the menu.

California halibut, as opposed to like an Alaskan halibate, I would try groupers, snappers, Baramundi. Baramundi is a really good one. That's a fish that could save the world. Look for various types of like a white sea bass, a wild Pacific albacore tuna. Try out fresh albacore tuna as opposed to like a bluefin or a yellowfin trout.

Trout. U.S. trout. We have the best trout in the world. And people don't order trout when they go out to eat at restaurants. But trout's a cousin of salmon. So if you like salmon, you're going to love trout. It's mild or it's got great omega-3 profile. Are chain restaurants using fake meat?

Well, some of them are. Yeah, some chain restaurants are using fake meat, but they're advertising it as such. What does that mean? Cell cultured meat. So it's meat that it's created in a lab, and then they pitch it as meat. But they say that it's not real meat. So it's kind of that impossible type of meat. But the scary thing is they're now approving actual meat that can be marketed as meat that's grown in a lab in a cell, like franken meat.

And what would that do to the human body you think? Nobody knows. And I say when you're manipulating DNA structure in proteins that we consume, We are setting ourselves up for an absolute disaster, a zombie-like disaster. How nasty is food at those chain restaurants we talked about like a cheesecake factory or all of garden? Like, could you eat it? I can eat it. I mean, I think we all have kind of that moment of weakness where we're like, we know it tastes good because of the MSG and the chemicals.

Is it just microwave? A lot of it comes in bags, right? And I worry more about the plastic in many of those situations than I do about the chemicals. You know, Dr. Marty McCarrie just wrote that book recently and talked about how the microplastics have screwed up our endocrats. system and what we're seeing in regards to like fertility, et cetera, but it's all in the plastics. Most of that food comes in bags and then gets dropped in boiling water and then you cut it open and put it into a Bain-Marie and jazz it up with some fresh tribes or garlic. When you get into that chain restaurant setting, that's the problem.

Speaking of Dr. Marty's book, that section on peanuts and how we got severe peanut allergies in the United States absolutely floored me. blew my mind, had no idea about that. Did you know that before you read that? No. No. That was the craziest thing. So if you don't know what we're talking about, you have to read Dr. Marty's book. Yeah. His new book just came out a couple months ago. It's insane. And now he is the FDA director. What is really being sprayed on vegetables at the grocery store? It's not water. It's probably, and I actually don't know, but I would assume it's like some sort of a water citric acid saline solution that's just keeping them plump and keeping them hydrated. Is that okay? Or you

I don't like anything going on my food, even if it's salt, right? Like I want to know everything that's going into my food and I want it to be labeled as such. The problem is the education and the labeling. You see, like, we don't know what's happening behind that curtain. And when that's happening, today it might just be something simple like lemon juice and salt, but like, how do you know tomorrow? They're not putting a little glyphosite in there. Eggs are basically costing rent now. What is your go-to hack for cooking healthy, real food on a budget? I'll say this because this is what we just came out with a cookbook, Chef Grohl's Family Cookbook, and we do like all budget food in there. It's 50 recipes. Lauren did all the photography. So I'll have to give you, I brought one

for you. One of the things that we focus on in that is like you got to think about three things, right? So you want to think about having just good fats, right? So when you're cooking with good fats, you're bringing a ton of flavor out that you don't need to pay for. People don't realize this, but seed oils coat your palate. Seed oils are bitter and they taste horrible and they leave you with an astringent, muted taste on your palate. Real fats, saturated fats, animal fats, not only do they amplify flavors and add flavor elements, but they let the natural flavors come out. So less is more in that regard. Like I can cook a three-ounce pieces of fish versus a six-ounce with real fats, and it's going to make me feel full.

So that's important right there. Using fresh herbs and high-quality citrus and vinegars is like something nobody cooks with. They're cheap. They're cheap as heck, right? I mean, like 50 cents for parsley, chives, oregano, like we always buy the dried stuff. the fresh stuff thrown in at the last second with like acid because acid in food it balances out flavors of food and it amplifies those flavors so just finishing with a little bit of fresh citrus zest or juice vinegar high quality vinegar well you can take the most pedestrian meal

i mean just like ground beef and cheap carrots hit it with a little fresh vinegar lemon juice or citrus zest fresh herbs and then cook it in real fat and you'll feel as if you're eating on the Tuscan countryside with the barefoot contessa, like, whipping you with beef tallow. Which big box store do you think has the best budget-friendly options for organic produce and like best quality organic produce for less? The big box grocery stores are getting first pick. Then the cheaper grocery stores that are like the ones that are like, oh, you're going to get this for $3 less. And they're kind of offering the same thing. They're just getting second pick. They're just as good. It's just like they're not as pretty looking.

Well, actually, yeah, you're right because they're considered ugly fruit. So like there's all of these packaging standards that you have to meet in order to be like the model at the whole foods and everything else either gets thrown away or shipped off. The USDA sets those standards. Like tomatoes aren't naturally round in five by five in a box. Like tomatoes are all different shapes and sizes. You could have a zucchini that's a tomato. But then the grocers came together and said,

we will only buy, you know, these round red tomatoes. And in order to get every single tomato round and red, what do they do? genetically modify them, treat them with a ton of chemicals so that they're shelfworthy. Wow. And we throw all the rest away. Okay, let me give you like a couple like random like everyday type of meals and like what would you do as a professional chef to just like give it a little extra. Scrambled eggs. I finished scrambled eggs with freshly grated parmesan, a little bit of sea salt, right?

And then I will cook with my, I start my scrambled eggs in a cold pan with a dash of milk. Explain that. The cold pan means that the protein's solid. slowly coagulate. They don't come together really hard. And that's what gives your eggs that silky, smooth finish that you get it like a French brosury. What pan brand are you cooking on at home? We use carbon steel pans. So it's like a mix of a cast iron skillet and like a stainless steel pan. Grilled cheese. What's the best part of a grilled cheese besides the melting cheese? The bread. What do you have on a piece of bread? Two sides. You want to take the best part

of a grilled cheese and double it. Toast your bread on one side first. Flip it. That's the inside of your grilled cheese sandwich. It's buttery and toasted, so you're doubling that beautiful toasted flavor, then build the inside with the melted cheese and then toast the outside as well. So now both sides of the bread are toasted. Chicken breast. Have your oven on. Sear it first. Put a little bit of juice in the pan, maybe a piece of fennel, herb, citrus, and then finish it in the oven at 350 degrees. Convectional heat will keep it from overcooking on the outside while the inside is still raw. Spaghetti. You want to use some of the water in which you cook the spaghetti to make your sauce rich and creamy. So after you strain your spaghetti, take one cup of the water that the

spaghetti was in because now all the starch from the spaghetti's in there. Add the spaghetti back to the pan with butter, red sauce and a little bit of that starch juice and let it reduce. And that's how restaurants get that beautiful, velvety, cloyingly rich spaghetti sauce on the spaghetti. Chocolate chip cookies. You got to use salt in your chocolate chip cookies. Also, you want to use melted butter. People use room temperature butter, but you want the butter to melt so that you create gluten between the melted butter and the flour.

And that's where you get a chewy chocolate chip cookie. Gluten is just when the proteins come together to give it more chew. Perfect steak. Reverseer. So you always start in a low temp oven first. Between 80 and 120 degrees, there's enzymes in the meat that break the meat down. So you want it in that

temperature zone as long as possible, and then you sear it at the end or grill it at the end. Oh. And that also gives it a beautiful exterior because while it's in the oven, you're releasing a lot of that moisture, and that moisture is what inhibits the browning. So in the absence of that moisture, you get a quicker sear on the meat. What is your hack for a picky kid who only wants to eat like the same three things? Take those three things and then just start to create little offshoots, right? So if the kid only eats the chicken tenders, start figuring out different ways to make chicken tenders. Maybe bread them

yourselves, but don't finish them in breadcrums, finish them with like, you know, tallow fried potato chips, right, crushed up, and then create sauces, different types of sauces so that you can slowly expand their palate based on what they already know. Is there a way to cut an onion without burning your eyes? You can wear goggles. They say putting in an ice cube in your mouth works, but I think the best tip for chefs is just a sharp knife. Oh, okay.

Because if you think about it with a dull knife, you're like crushing the little water balloon cells. You say that gluten-free is a cult and bread is not your enemy. Now, I am gluten-free, so radicalize me. I don't think that it's a cult. I think that a lot of people who eat gluten-free are only doing it because somebody else was doing it. When you have celiac, that's like one issue. And Lauren's eating gluten-free right now.

But I'll always tell the story about the guy who came in and he wanted a gluten-free sandwich. So I ran to the store and got gluten-free bread, right? That's nice of you? He comes back the next day. He's like, best sandwich I've ever had. I've never not had an issue in a restaurant, right? Make me that sandwich again. Make him the sandwich again.

You're like, got to go back to the store. Well, third day comes back. I need the sandwich again. I've never felt so good eating out at a restaurant. So I'm like, shoot, I'm out of the bread. Run to the same store. Go to grab it. This time I realized it was the Rudy's brand.

I go, shoot, I grabbed their not gluten-free line. So now I had a moral dilemma. Do I tell him? Do I tell him or do I keep cooking the non-glutin free? But he had no issues and he loved it. Maybe it was all in his head. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying yours is.

I'm just saying that's a funny story. Yes. Where it was like, is it trendy? Is it not? I think, because I don't think it's the gluten. I think it's glyphosate. Yeah, I would agree. I'm only doing it because I love bread. I'm only doing it because I was told to with

autoimmune issues. They told me to avoid gluten. You know, this is the problem of doing my job is that I interview all of you experts and then, you know, one person says do this and then another person says do this. So my whole life, it's like, avoid, avoid, avoid, and then I just interviewed somebody that was like, no, I think it's completely fine. And I'm like, are you kidding me? So who knows? Who knows at this point? I'm just a chef. I'm not a doctor or a nutritionist. What is your opinion on the paper versus plastic straw debate? That paper is disgusting. I mean, it's like, those things turn into like, turn into recycled gnats in two seconds.

I don't love plastic straws in general because I don't love plastics overall. If you're going to have a straw, like just carry around a stainless steel straw. And like a guy walking around with a straw is also a weird look. But there are certain situations, especially with kids where you need a straw. I think overall as a society, we can decrease straw usage. Do you think that the same red flag of like men who care about, their birthdays is a red flag, that that also applies to men who like to drink out of straws?

Yeah, 100%. That is actually a really good analogy. It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. What do you wish more Americans understood about the state of our food? That so much of it is owned by just a few corporations. Everything they're eating,

they feel as if they have a ton of variety when they go and they look at the shells, but they don't. And the real variety is in the people, the people growing our food. and that when we get back to the land, and I know that's a cliche, but when we get back to where the food comes from, we're not just producing food, but we're understanding our environment. And there's so many different things associated with our environment.

And it comes back to community, right? I talked about the cookbook that we wrote that cookbook because we want families to come together and cook more together. We partnered with Brave Books, actually. Are you familiar with Brave Books? Yep, we love Brave Books. Yeah. So, like, a faith-based organization, when they started in July of 2021, we started. we started ordering their books.

We were one of the first subscribers to their entire platform. And we were buying them every single month. The kids loved them. We love the stories, the allegories. There's the kind of Bible verses in there. So it really worked with what they were learning at school. And then like three years later,

we reached out to each other and it was like, you thought about doing a cookbook. So we did the cookbook through Brave using some of the characters. Amazing. Because our values are the same. Let's get families together, community. When you ask about food,

it's like when everybody's eating from the same, land and understanding and going out to eat in the public square and where their food comes from or farmers and all of that, you're also creating community. And we can only, we're only as good as our community. What is your death row meal? My death row meal, and she might be the one who kills me, too. My death row meal, I'm kidding. My death row meal might be the, uh, her chicken enchiladas with Mexican rice. I think it's cute that you're a professional chef and you're saying it's something your wife makes. Oh, yeah. Well, she, so she's a culinary. She went to school. She's a chef as well. We work in their business and the restaurants together.

Wow. She probably cooks more at home. So like we've come to love her dishes more at home. And in a restaurant, she does the bar in the front of the house and then I do the kitchen and the back of the house. But we get to be blessed with her food at home. If you could offer one remedy to heal us at culture, physically, mentally or spiritually, what would it be? To cook more together with everybody, whether you agree with them or disagree with them. So starting with your family, going out to other circles, I think bringing people together.

through food dinners, but cooked, but like hands-on cooking. You know, not potlucks where you bring something. You do it together. You also have several cooking shows going on. Where can people watch those? We just launched our second version of American Gravy. We called American Gravy because that was my nickname for ketchup when I was growing up. But I think it works.

So the first series was just Lauren and I in the kitchen with the kids doing really basic, like dump and stir and featuring good local ingredients talking about food policy. we've pivoted into having guests now. So we're about to launch the episode with Matt and Ginger Gates. Oh, cool. You got Matt and Ginger on? In the kitchen with us. You know what?

Let me tell you something about Matt and Ginger, which I really appreciate it. So they both came to the Senate hearing in September that we did on chronic disease. And Ginger posted on X like, oh, I'm here and I'm supporting Alex Clark. And I saw them like there to watch. And that meant so much with their busy days and busy lives and everything.

I just thought, like, wow, that is the kindest thing. I cannot believe they came to watch and support. They're the most genuine people and they know food. Matt is like a good chef. And Ginger knows food really well. And she's a smart lady. She knows policy. She knows food.

Like, she knows everything. So it was just a four of us in our kitchen. Like, it was hilarious. Dr. Drew, Mike Turnovich. Those are great. You've got all my favorite people on. So that's amazing. And that one we're just right now,

exclusively airing on X Rumble, YouTube, you know, like all the platforms. Oh, perfect. Okay, cool. So free. Yeah. Cool. Okay, people should check that out. And where should they follow you on X? You have one of the best X accounts. You are so good. You have like a comeback. I mean, you can tell from talking to me, smartest has something to say about everything. And especially if you're like into politics and health and wellness, you're the best follow. So where should people follow you? At Chef Gruel on X. And I go back and forth with with my wife, Lauren too. She's at Lauren Gruel. So the two of us have some fun on X. Awesome. Thank you, Chef Grohl, for coming on Culture Apothecary. Thank you for having me. It's an honor. If you had a blast listening to this episode with Chef Grohl, please leave a five-star review. Tell others why they need to be listening to Culture Apothecary. We are one of the top 10 health and wellness podcasts in the world. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture. Twice a week, brand new guests bring their own unique remedy to do just that. Mondays and Thursdays, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

Subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube. You can find me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark, the show on on Instagram at Culture Apothecary, and also there's a Facebook group for fans of the show. Just look for cute servatives. New show merch is available at TPSAmerch.com. Code Alex Clark gets you 10% off. I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture Apothecary.