Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “How To Live With Less & Do More.” - With Minimalist Mom Diane Boden

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

Health and wellness isn’t just about what you put on and in your body – it also encompasses the environment you live within. In this episode with top-rated @minamalistmomspodcast, Diane Boden, you’ll learn how to declutter your home AND your mind. Alex and Diane discuss the best place to start decluttering in your home, why kids benefit from having LESS toys, why adults should reassess the friends they pour their time into, and life hacks to keeping your home cleaner and more peaceful. This e...

Would you be excited if I told you that there was a way to spend less time cleaning in the new year, still maintain a tidied home, and focus more on enjoying experiences with your family instead? Would you say yes to less stuff if it meant more meaning in your life? One in seven Americans have a room in their home that they cannot even use because it's filled with futile possessions according to advances in consumer research. And despite that fact, clear. voice research says 41% of Americans haven't decluttered for over a year. But how do you know where to even start decluttering in your home, especially if you have more than one room filled to capacity with useless junk? My guest this week is the voice behind the top-rated

kids and family podcast, Minimalist Moms, where she teaches people how to live a life in the pursuit of less. She's an Ohio mother married with three children and her first book, Minimalist Moms, living and parenting with simplicity came out in 2021. She strongly believes that you don't have to be the perfect housekeeper or Pinterest connoisseur to become an expert at simplifying your home and getting rid of excess possessions. Welcome Diane Bowden to The Spillover for episode two of season four in our Health and Wellness Month to teach us the tangibles of decluttering, minimalism and mindfulness, and how to have a very rich life without having a lot of things.

Diane, your podcast crushes in the parenting space, in the health and wellness space. And it was funny because you and I were kind of talking before recording and you were like, well, I do feel like for your health and wellness month, I was thinking about it. I was like, does minimalism and decluttering in all this fit in health and wellness? And we both were like, yes, it does. Yeah, it absolutely does because as I was saying to you, I am at the point where my house is mostly decluttered. I mean, with kids, you're constantly bringing things in and you're going through all of that. But now I apply it to my schedule and my relationships.

And yes, my mental health back in the fall, I would say, has suffered a lot because I wasn't applying the principles that I so believed in to be true. And so, yeah, we can talk all about that and how it's not just your things that you're decluttering. It's your schedule and it's your mind and what you're taking in because all of that affects you on a day-to-day basis as well as your things. Absolutely. Now, have you always been a minimalist or did you just throw your hands up one day and say, I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the mess. I have too much crap in this house. I need to change.

Yeah. So there's a pinpoint light bulb moment that I can go back to when my husband and I were early married. We were married when we were 22 and we were looking for something in my parents' basement. And to paraphrase him, he said, look at these things that are now in boxes that were once your dad's hard-earned work hours. And for me at the time, I had been working since, I mean, I was like 15. I always had jobs. I love to work. But I only had a closet full of clothes to show for it and debt.

And when he said, look at your hard earned work hours, what is that going to equate to at the end of my life or just even in the next five to 10 years? I was incredibly overwhelmed by that thought. And I always preface this entire conversation without, I don't want to throw my parents in the bus. And we did have a great childhood and I appreciate all the things and the blessings my parents gave to us. However, I think it's like, why are we keeping these things in boxes and creating these little museums in our attic or in our garage or in our basements? And that was a turning point to me to say, okay, if I'm going to be working and I'm having to work, I want to focus my attention on experiences over things and not consume as much. And so that kind of got the ball rolling on this is

what I want for our relationship and our life together. And now you have this podcast where you talk about all of this. You have a book that discusses not only a minimalist life, but also simplicity parenting. How many kids do you have? I have three kids. I have an eight-year-old, a five-year-old, and a three-year-old. That's so great. And see, this is the thing.

When I have thought about minimalism or people that say, well, I live a minimalist life, the only thing I know is fashion, like capsule wardrobes. I have two shirts and one pair of shoes and one dress. dress, and that is all I have, and maybe a trench coat. Yeah. That's what I think. So I'm very ignorant on what does it truly mean to be a minimalist? Well, it's going to look different for everyone.

And you're right. It does look different in motherhood. And so, gosh, I don't even know where to start of the little tips that I have and the tricks that I have. But I would just say minimalism isn't about white walls and it isn't about having just one spoon and one. Yeah, people go crazy. You're right.

Like, that's not the way that I live my life because I want a vibrant, rich life. However, I don't know if you're familiar. Are you familiar with Marie Kondo? Oh, of course. Okay. She, I love mess and it sparks joy and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, sparking joy. Sparring joy.

So that's what I wanted to talk about. I have to own a hammer. I don't use my hammer. My husband used the hammer. But the hammer doesn't spark joy in my life, but I have to have it. So it's kind of those things that I don't necessarily agree with not to throw her under the bus. But I don't necessarily agree with that type of minimalism or necessarily the minimalist. They're great guys.

And I love the message that they preach. But it just is not applicable to people with kids that, as I said, the kids are bringing the things into the home that they're their own individuals. And I don't ever want to suppress that. I want to guide and direct that. And I also don't want to create little hoarders one day either where it backfires on me because I've been too oppressive with the trying to manage and whatnot. So, yeah, so I think that is probably shocking to be like, wait a minute, you're saying that it's okay to have some things and still live a minimalist lifestyle and it's not all about white walls. Could you expand on that a little bit?

Yeah, so for us, I don't want to have things in my home that I don't love. And so sometimes I feel like it's maybe a little bit of frugality that is is driving me as opposed to minimalism. It's like, I don't necessarily want to spend money until I know what I actually want. But also, why do we buy these huge homes and fill them with things that we don't necessarily need? It's like, oh, we have all these cabinets. So we're just going to automatically fill the cabinets. And, again, I think it's just more so considering what we're bringing in as opposed to, I don't know.

I guess I lost my turn to thought. I don't know what I was trying to say. It's about what you're bringing in and, I don't know, like editing, editing things out. Yeah. Yeah, in regards to decluttering, if you're looking at the things that you're trying to get rid of, so often we're caught up in sentimentality, I don't want to get rid of this because this is special to me. However, if you look at the reason that we're keeping things in these objects, the object is not your memory. If you get rid of something, you still have that memory within you. It's just that item is a representation of the memory.

So I think it's about finding balance between your past and your present, and what does that look like? So when I'm decluttering, I pull every single thing out of the space. We'll talk about the closet. I pull everything out. And then in my mind, I'm like, I know the things that I really love that I wear regularly. And then the things that are maybe I don't really know if I like this. And then the things that you know that you don't wear, you can get rid of. So those things that I don't really know why I'm keeping this, I like to pull in extra help.

Usually it's my husband or my most judgy friend. I'll pull in to help me. And again, it's like, am I just sentimental about this item because I worded a time that I really enjoyed in my life. However, if I don't ever wear it, why am I keeping it? And if it doesn't fit my body anymore, why am I keeping it? That is a weight on you. It doesn't seem like it, but it's a weight keeping these clothes in our closets that once fit us or we're going to get back into. It's like, no, I want to dress for my body now because I'm not guaranteed tomorrow. So I want to cultivate the lifestyle of the here and now. And I guess mindfulness also plays a role in minimalism too and in my

brand of minimalism. Well, I feel very called out about the, you wore this at a special time, so you just keep it. You know, that is totally me. The closet editing, that's going to be an exciting section. Why do you think that living a minimalist life gives you more freedom? Well, I don't, well, number one, I feel like I'm not cleaning nearly as much as other people. I feel like I can easily tidy my house within 10 to 15 minutes. And it's just because we don't have a lot of stuff. Now, but let me ask you this. Do you feel like you have an average size house, smaller house, or you do have a large home? Okay. Because I think some of the moms listening will be curious about that. Yeah. So we, when we first got married, we owned a duplex and we lived on half of it

until we brought our third son home. And at this point, we were, I think we're also just kind of weird. We're minimalist, but we're just kind of strange. And we can do with, uh, without the bouginess. And so anyways, we brought him home and we had been sleeping on our futon. couch. It was a nice futon couch from Urban Outfitters. It wasn't. Okay. We're not talking like college dorm room. However, that was 900 square feet at that time. And we'd live there with our kids and we gave them the bedrooms. Now we upgraded to, I think we're in 1,300 square feet. Okay. So still not a lot. And there are times that I'm frustrated that my son is waking up his brother and vice versa that I wish we had a little bit more space. But there's actually been studies done with heat maps of homes. Where are we spending the

most of our time, or the majority of our time, and you're not around your house. So these huge houses that we're buying, to me, I don't know, again, it's nice to have some space, but it's like, what are we doing with the space? Are we doing it to show off? Are we doing it for what motive? You're saying that we could buy a 6,000 square foot house. We're probably only actually using, like, I don't know, 1,900 square feet or something like that. Yeah, I mean, if that, if you look, I mean, I'm thinking about myself and like going through where I spend the time in my home and I'm on my couch. I'm in the bathroom. I'm cooking at the stove and I'm sitting at the dining room table. So my heat map throughout my day is going to be in, I don't know, probably like 200 square feet if that, what I'm actually,

oh, and in my bed. So again, a lot of people are listening to this. They've already purchased their first home and you can't go back and you can't redo. But it's like, why is it wrong to have empty cabinets or why is it wrong to have like pull things down off the walls and create a space that's not so cluttered. And I mean, again, that just, it does weigh on you with the visual clutter on the walls too. Yeah. It can weigh on you emotionally. Oh, yeah, for sure. Why do you think so many women struggle with decluttering? Well, I think number one, it does come back to sentimentality. And then I think that they feel like I don't know where to start. Where do I start? I have these kids. It's never going to end. And that is something that's true. You're never going to arrive with children

in the house or even with a spouse that's not on board with the cluttering. And so I would say a good place to start. I always encourage people to start in the bathroom because the bathroom is where you begin your day and you typically end your day. And it's not a space that I want to feel overwhelmed in. So in the bathroom, you can easily go through and you don't have a ton of sentimental attachment to the things within there. And I would just say if you're someone that like, all the decor on your, what is it, the countertops and on the walls, pull it out for a month and see how you feel. And then slowly add things back in that you may feel like you like and maybe even have like a

holding space in your basement, like a box, give it a set time. I'm going to get rid of this in four to six weeks. If I don't find that I miss any of this stuff, then I will go ahead and say goodbye. Sometimes though you have to do it like a band-aid and you just got to get it out. Right. I think that is the hard thing. So here's a, here's like a fun anecdote. my followers know, and you may know from following me on Instagram, because that's how we connected, is I was like listening to your podcast and discovered you through a thousand days outside.

A thousand hours outside. That's right. And I was, so I discovered you from there and then your podcast. And then you had messaged me on Instagram. I'm like, wait, this is the same lady. I was just listening to. So we connected. So on my Instagram, I've talked about how in the last year I had an interior designer come and she helped me like do my whole apartment.

Well, when it came to my bathroom, I had bought. you know those little jars and things that you keep like your cotton balls in and all that kind of stuff okay well i also had bought a glass gold tray that you set those jars on to put on my countertop and she says to me Alex why did you get this you don't need this it's unnecessary it's taking up more space it's a thing to put a thing on and you don't need it and she made me take it to goodwill and i just that reminds me what you're saying like with counterspace like how many of these decorative things do we really need? She's like, you don't need it. And it actually does look so much nicer that I've hardly anything on my sink countertop. Well, it's just easier to clean too. And you just

go, when my kids are taking the bath, I usually just go in and wipe down the bathroom. I mean, that's just little moments of my day where I can just do a quick declutter and tidying. I mean, it just helps to stay on top of it as well. So many times people are like, I need to organize my stuff. Yes. And they'll go to what is the container store. Yes, I have a whole, I have some questions about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we can get into that. But yeah, but you're not wanting to organize your stuff first.

You need to clutter first. See what you have. Assess what you have. Inventory, if you will. Because the things that we own in our mental inventory in our brain. This is what I've been doing wrong, Diane, because I've been going to the container store and I'm stalking up on these stupid home edit plastic containers to put my stuff in before I even go through my stuff to get rid of. Because I was going to ask you, I'm like, is it?

it really worth it to buy all of these plastic containers to organize my things. And I probably don't need as much, but I'm not editing down. Yes, edit down and see what you actually want to keep. Because why would you, it just is like the chicken before the egg, what comes first? But it's actually, gosh, what comes first the chicken or the egg? I don't know. Who knows? Yeah. But you definitely don't want to spend the money and then have all, like, organized after you declutter. Okay. And then are those plastic bins? and baskets and all that stuff, I mean, worth it? I mean, I'm not opposed to that. Like I said, we're kind of weird in how we store our things.

I feel like I live with less than I need, and I'm not really necessarily into having we have a cabinet in our hallway. It doesn't have to look perfect to me. I'm like, no one's going to see that in there. So if I just have, like, one little bin, that's okay to keep my stuff. And I also think with the cluttering, it's like, what products am I actually using? What works best for me? And going through that, you have to be very honest with.

with yourself of what you actually do and what your habits are. Because, again, I think a lot of decluttering is being honest with yourself and saying, who am I now? Because have I ever gotten to that point that I want to be? And if maybe that's a challenge to you to say, yeah, I want to be that person. I want to be the person that uses all these skincare products and focuses on skincare. I want to be the person that has all, if you're looking at the kitchen, all these health foods and chia seeds and flax seeds and all these things.

But, like, if you're not doing that, why are you keeping them? I don't know. I think it's like a crutch. Like we feel like, well, if we have it, we'll do it. Well, you can typically go to the store. If that's the case, for $20 and under, even Facebook marketplace, you can find a replacement for these things. And I don't, I'm not about wasting money. It's more so now that I have this thought and I've laid out how I want to be, that's another thing with decluttering. I really think at the beginning of your journey, your journey, you need to just assess some of the things that you're looking for with decluttering. what the space decluttering your space would do for you.

And then you can kind of connect the dots between like what's the life I'm living versus what I want to actually be. Do you really feel like it is women that struggle with this more than men? I think so. And I don't exactly know why. I do think we're more emotional and the sentimentality does play a role. But some men really do like their things as well. I think they can live with less, though, than we can.

I don't know. I feel like men have, they actually have more of a shoe addiction sometimes. than women can. Sneakers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How has living minimally positively affected your personal relationships? Well, I would just say I have more time to focus on my friends. My friends are so important to me. And even as a mom, I try to make sure that I am getting regular friend time. But I would just say if I'm managing all of these relationships, well, actually, do you want me to tell you this thing that I did a couple of years ago? And it kind of makes me look like a jerk, but it actually really changed my relationship life, I guess.

Okay. The relationships of my life. I went through and organized my friends with tiers, T-I-E-R, Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3. I wrote down every woman that I was regularly seeing. I know, I know. Every woman that I was regularly seeing, and I was like, Tier 1 friends, I want to see on a weekly, bi-weekly basis. I love this. We're organizing your friends.

This is like MySpace Toppy on steroids. Okay. Okay, so we're organizing by tiers who we see or want to see. Yes. And so it was like biweekly, weekly, tier two was, gosh, I think I said once every six to six weeks to three months. And then tier three, it was like, I love you. You've had a space in my life. If you call me, if you call me to get coffee and I'm free, sure. But I'm not going to reach out to you because those people, I was finding I was saying yes to those women. And it was just kind of surface level. I'm not a surface level person. And like, I want to get in there.

And maybe that makes people uncomfortable. But it's like, I want to invest in the women that I know about your life. And I can just live life with you. And I felt like those level three, it was just like chatter. I love this. Because, you know, in my, I've never thought of it like that. The way you just broke that down is so beautiful. But what I think of when I organize my friends in my head, I'm like, okay, these are,

these are my, what you're talking about, the surface level friends. But I call them party friends. So, like, these are the friends I call when I'm like, I want to go hit up the bars. but I never have heart to hearts with them. I never have deep conversations with them. And then I have my very, very best friends. I have like two very best friends where I am having those hard to hearts. I'm going to make time to buy a flight to go visit them because we don't live in the same city.

And then I have those friends where it's like I like their pictures on Instagram and that's about as far as our friendship goes at this point. You know? Yeah. Well, I was going to say, so relating that back to the question that you asked, I would just say I have richer relationships with people because, and again, this is minimalism applied to our schedule and our mind versus our possessions. But also, it's just like what actually matters? I am a Christian and I talk about that a little bit on my podcast, but we don't, for those of us that are Christians, we don't store our possessions here on Earth. Like we build up treasures in heaven.

The Bible talks about that all the time or throughout Scripture. And so I would just say, like, what am I investing in on this side of eternity? And it's really hard because I do like clothes. I love clothes. However, a lot of the clothes these days, I love Poshmark. And so I'll get clothes on Poshmark. It's a great sustainable option as well. Yep, I use that.

Facebook Marketplace, there's Instagram accounts where women will go thrifting for you and then cultivate, curate their little feed, and then you can buy from them on Instagram. What? Yeah. So a lot of things I've purchased, a lot of things. Things I purchased on there. I love the Real Real. I've been doing a lot of that of designer.

items that are, they're authenticated. What I can't stand is fast fashion or fake fashion. I would rather buy a real Prada bag that's been gently used and consigned that I know is real and, you know, mark down a little bit because that has a tiny bit of wear on it than buy just like a fake one. Well, you're talking about quality over quantity too. Yeah. So I like nice things. Most of the things that I own are nicer, but I'd rather save up for something nice and or thrift it, versus, yeah, I don't want to call out brands, but like I will, H&M with Forever 21. That stuff, even Target. It just falls apart.

Yeah, it does. And then you're buying, you're spending more money in the long run because you're buying new things more frequently. Yeah, every summer. It's like, oh, I got to go buy all these T-shirts. It's like maybe if you would have bought a nice one, you could last, that would last for a little bit longer. I have a great idea.

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Your periods could be painful and terrible because of what you're putting in your body during it. Try something different. Garnu also sells menstrual cups, and don't worry, pads are coming soon. Another fun fact I love is that Garnu is a conservative-owned company that fights. human trafficking in Nepal with every purchase. This year, we're done giving our money to businesses that hate us. Get 15% off your first monthly subscription by going to garnoo.com slash spillover with code spillover. That's G-A-R-N-U-U dot com slash spillover with code spillover for 15% off. Or check the show notes in the description. Let me ask you something going back to the friend thing, because this is a question I get asked to,

lot and I'm about to be 30. And so just thinking there's so much growth that happens between the beginning of your 20s in the end because, you know, at first you're like, well, for a lot of people, it's like college, getting out of high school, all those types of things. And then you get more serious in life. You're starting your career. You may be starting a family. And so friendships change. When do you think is a really good time or the prime time to start reassessing friendships and being like, hey, this person was in my life for a season? They're not really, you know, you know, meant to be there forever. I don't need to keep investing in this friendship, investing time and energy. Like, is it late 20s, early 30s, the best time to do that?

I mean, I don't think there's necessarily a time frame. I did it when I had my second child. And I just felt like, again, it's like, okay, this is something else that is, I don't want to say my child's added to my schedule, but it's like, this is another human in my life that I'm giving energy to if you really break it down to what I'm doing. And so I had to just be clear with, I don't want to give my energy to, again, that chatter of the weather or just like very surface level things. I want to invest that in my kids and then maybe be quiet. Just be quiet and not have to fill the space. I think that's really hard for me because I'm a talker and I really, I love connecting with people, but it's like, when is the time to just be quiet? And that was

another reason that I laid out the tiers. And again, it's not because those people weren't valuable in my life. And hopefully I was doing the same to them. These are roommates that I've had that are now in tier three. And again, it's not like you have to have a conversation while you have dropped a tier three. It's just, I think people kind of get that idea. And again, if they reach out to you and you have the time, I think it's great to catch up. But I think it's just like, where is our energy going throughout the week? It's become moms or we have a nine to five that we're really invested in. Whatever your goal is, I think that it's just always good to reassess what is taking my energy. Absolutely.

How can women find contentment in our wardrobes? How can we stop from wanting to buy the pair of shoes as soon as we see it or the bag or the dress? Well, I'll be honest with you. I got the onesies a little bit this fall and winter, like early winter. I felt like I was wanting things. And I felt like it's because maybe I hadn't bought things for a while. I felt like I maybe I wanted to add some new. pieces to my wardrobe. So I think that's okay. However, I also had to reevaluate, reexamine why am I

dressing when I was not a minimalist? I would want to have something new every time I would see people. That's me. Yeah, I would never want the same people. Like at church on Sunday, you're not going to see me in the same thing. Yes. It's with new friends. So anyways, I had to reevaluate why I liked my friends. So why do I like Alex? Do I like her because every time I see her. She's in something new. No, I like Alex because Alex is who she is and she's a unique person and special to me. And so when I detached myself from the things that I needed, this was also with body image too. When I thought about like my motivations for wanting to fit a certain size, it's like, why do I like my friends? And my friends are all various sizes. So yeah, I would just say

when we get clear minded and rational with, again, driving factors, driving forces in our lives, we can easily detach from those emotions because that's an emotional motivation. That's not rational. It's not rational to want to have new clothes every time we see someone. And what is your motivation in wanting to do that? Wow. That's so good. That's such a good self-reflective exercise, I think. It's hard. And I'm not in your, so you live a different lifestyle than I do too. And so it would be hard being in like a corporate setting or where you're around a lot of people that are living that way. and to not do that. But I think that we can also be trendsetters in that way and or if you do want things, why not get it secondhand? Like I said, Poshmark or these Instagram accounts, Facebook Marketplace, you can get some great things at Goodwill. Like, I don't know. It's the motivation and the money waste that I look back on those times that I was doing those things and I have nothing to show for it. Yeah. And it's a, I'm like, what if I would have set myself up in my early 20s to have all that in savings? Well, you know what the biggest problem is with millennials and Gen Z I think also is that

we buy all of this. We do most of our shopping online, I think. And then when it doesn't fit or we don't like it, we're too lazy to return it. So we have just all of these clothes that if we would have returned them within the 30 day 15, 30 day window, we could have gotten our money back, but we're too lazy to do it. So then we waste all this money and then we have all these access clothes that we can't wear or don't wear. That's a huge issue for my friends and I. Interesting. Okay. So I don't have that problem. I definitely will get things back. However, If you do send things back, I know with Amazon, oftentimes they'll just throw it away. They won't even restock it. And so for people that are into sustainable living and care about the environment, I think that that's something that always overwhelms people to think about. Like, when we send things back, are they actually going back? To these cheapy places. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know one of the hardest things for me to keep clean and decluttered is a purse. Sure. Yes. Where the heck do you start with that? What do we actually need as women to be keeping in our handbags? So, again, I would look at what your lifestyle is like and what you're doing, what you're actually needing. I don't know.

Maybe I'm just a journaler. I like to write things down. It helps me visualize and see it. And I get – have you heard of a brain dump? Yes. So just getting everything out of my brain. So I would say, write down everything in your purse and then assess why do I need this? Do I actually need this every day?

You saw me walk in. I have a fanny pack that I wear now. I don't even take a purse anymore. Now, why is that? Well, I think I do have kids so I don't like to have something that I'm, like, having to hold on to. But also it just like goes right here. My stuff is right here. I mean, you can wear it around your waist.

They're coming back, man. No, they are coming back. Gen Z brought those back hardcore. I like them. But no, I just would say I don't need nearly as much. I used to carry around my giant makeup bag everywhere that I went. But I did that because I was insecure. It's like, oh, wonder if it rains.

And I need to redo my makeup. Or I wonder if I. I just need this person to see me a certain way. It's really hard. Yeah. How can you balance being a minimalist but also being prepared and having things in your car, having things in your purse that you might need? I think we as women operate on this what if all the time.

Yeah. So I carry in my car, that's the other thing. If you don't have a car, that's kind of hard. But in my car I have clothes for me and my kids because we like to be in nature and my kids are constantly getting wet. And so it's like nice to have the clothes that we can get to. but I guess I'm just not as, maybe I'm not as prepared. Again, I think that there, I'm like, I live in the city.

I can go to the store if I need something. Yeah. But no, I think that there is, everyone's personality is different in your level of preparedness in those situations are going to look different. It's just why. I think it's the why. I don't know. As I'm processing this conversation with you, I think I'm coming back to why am I

keeping these things. Why am I doing these things? Why do I think this matters? why do I think this doesn't matter? Like, what is that driving factor that we have to get back to? I don't know. Okay. I want to talk about the cleaning cabinet, cleaning supplies.

How many cleaning supplies do we actually need in our homes at any given time? Well, I listened to your interview yesterday with Ray. Yeah, Emily Little Ray help. And I'm sure that she would be not happy with as many things that I have just because of the toxicity and whatnot. So I'm going to work on that this year. But, I mean, what is it overflowing? I mean, I think as long as you have a few products that can get the job done, that that would be comfortable. I don't like to put a number on any of this because, again, I don't, maybe you're really into cleaning or maybe you're a cook and you want to, I heard her say something about chicken though on the counter.

She's like, this product would just kill all of these germs. So, yeah, I would just say, are you able to comfortably move through your home? Are you able to comfortably get to your cleaning products that you need? because if you're having to scooch things around and that's frustrating in itself. And it's like, I don't really want to clean because every time I have to go to clean, I have to maneuver through all of these extra things. So what do I actually need? Where is it best kept and best stored?

And I will – not that cleaning is always so fun, but it's like if I put on a podcast, I can easily grab my stuff and get it done past. So for decluttering the kitchen, what's the best place to start in the kitchen? Is it the under the sink cabinet? Is it your pantry? Is it the Tupperware cabinet? I mean, I would say the refrigerator or the pantry is a great place to start. And just like your closet, honestly, any space that you're decluttering, you want to pull everything out to see what you have.

Because you easily could get rid of expired things. That's something you can easily see. And then again, what am I actually using? And then maybe the things that you're like, oh, I really have been wanting to use that. Put that at the front of the fridge or the front of the pantry, like the forefront of your mind so that you know I'm going to start meal planning or building a meal plan. plan around using this up. That's another thing. We have all these things and we never use them. And it's, again, like a little museum or like these relics that we have. And it's why are we keeping these things if we're not using them? Yeah, it's like if you're buying organic expensive snacks,

you put those on the back of your cabinet, you put all the processed food, your, you know, cheesy bits. I don't know, wreaths pieces or whatever at the beginning or at the front, then that's probably what you're grabbing. That's true. It's kind of habit forming. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, just. I would say with any situation, any area of your home, you're going to just want to pull out everything and assess and then put back in as you see fit. What are some experiences that you have been able to do, that you may not have been able to do or wouldn't have been possible without minimalism?

Okay. So I, especially thinking of your audience, I would say one of the biggest things that we did in our early marriage, so instead of our honeymoon being the first year, my husband's a teacher, so we had to wait for a year. instead of going on some boozy resort vacation, we spent three and a half weeks traveling the country in our car. We camped out. We saw, I don't know how many states we ended up seeing, but we just traveled around and saw the U.S. And it was one of the best decisions that we'd made.

And I remember we got to San Francisco. We had gone down from Ohio, like through Tennessee, hit New Orleans, Texas. We saw the Grand Canyon. We went to Santa Fe, like just all the way up the country. coast all the way up to Port Angeles, Washington. But when we got to San Francisco, we're like, oh, this would have been plane tickets. Like, we were able to do it so minimally. We ate oatmeal for breakfast because you can get some hot water from McDonald's. Like, we just did it so simply. And again, maybe this is frugality and just us being estranged. But we were like, no, we want to

prioritize experiences with each other as opposed to, I don't know. Everyone's going to look different for what they do. But it's things like that that I think you look back and you don't regret putting money towards things that are those memories that are everlasting. Do you feel like doing something like that, like a cross-country road trip so early on in your marriage played a huge role in just the success of your marriage and relationship down the road? I mean, yeah, I think that any time you have an opportunity to be alone with someone and to struggle with someone, I mean, we had car problems throughout that trip.

But yeah, I mean, any opportunity that you get to explore the world and new things with someone, I think that's huge. And again, it's like we saw in early marriage what we were capable of, I guess, on that trip, or not capable of, but just what we could handle and camping out on our honeymoon several times. It was really fun. And I wouldn't, I'm not going to camp out for more than one night. I got to get myself to a shower. But, yeah, I think that it just kind of set us up for this is what life together is going to look like. And again, we never really had a conversation about minimalism back that day in my parents' basement. It was more so just an aha moment to me to say, oh yeah, I want to live differently. You brought up the Little Ray of Health episode, and we talked a lot about hormones and stuff. And I saw through a post that you've made that there is a UCLA study that found that the sheer volume of possessions for people in their home can actually elevate stress hormones. Yeah, absolutely. Well, think about, okay, I always tell people to declutter their entryway of their home because have you ever arrived home and just right when you step foot in your door, you're like, oh, I forgot that I love it.

left this mess. Oh, yeah. That this was... Or somebody else in your family got through before you. They've kicked off their shoes and set their backpack or whatever and just clutter as soon as you walk in. Yeah. And so I think that we can see right then and there that it has an effect on our mood and our emotions. And so, yeah, that study was really interesting. There's a book, Life at Home in the 21st Century and it talks, I think it was done in Southern California. This was, I think, it's not up to date. I would love to see an up-to-date study because I do think minimalism and living with less is catching on. But yeah, I think that as moms, we need to minimize the stress as much as possible. And it's something that's in our control. Decluttering is in our

control. So much of our life is not in our control. We can't control our kids. We can't control our spouse. Sometimes we can't control our emotions. I try. But I can control the amount of things that I have in my closet. And I can control just the way that the closet downstairs is organized for my home. Like, I am a gatekeeper in a sense of what is coming in, especially with my things. And if I can't have control elsewhere, I'd just rather have it where I can. And so I think minimalism and decluttering allows me to have that piece. Well, you talking about that, how some people get rid of their possessions because that's a way to control their emotions and take control over that stress in their life. It's interesting how you flipped it that way because I feel like that's also what hoarder experts say about horse.

orders is that they hold on to everything because they feel like that's the only thing in their life they can control is keeping these possessions over the years after some sort of significant trauma in their life. But how empowering would it be if you're somebody or have a family member that struggles with hoarding to say like, I understand that you want these possessions because it's something that you feel like you have control over when everything else is out of control. But what if you controlled getting rid of it? And that's how you kept your possessions under control. That's, that's, I feel like that's a huge mindset hack. Well, yeah, it is. And I didn't know that necessarily about hoarders. It makes total sense of why.

I mean, it just goes back to the emotions and the sentimentality, though. They hold it because it has some type of sentimental or they feel protected with those items in their house. Like, there is some type of, some type of association of protection maybe of I, my mom left me, but these things won't lead me. Yes. So that's deeper. I, I'm not saying that this is a blanket statement the way that I live for everyone that has severe trauma. But I would say that I had an episode with modern mom probs, Tara Clark. She's on Instagram. And she talked about her mom being a hoarder.

And it's a slow process for people that are attached in a deeper mindset way. And that's why I'm saying I think that so much of this I have to go down and just write down and get it out of my brain. And organize, like just organize it. What's some advice for people that are wanting to live a minimalist life, but maybe they grew up with a parent who was a hoarder or they maybe not even necessarily the clinical definition of hoarding, but they grew up with a very disorganized or messy or unclean home? How can you change that for yourself? Start small. Don't start with the sentimental items. Again, starting in the bathroom and moving through spaces that don't have a lot of those triggers, I guess, for you.

I would never start in my basement because usually that's where we store a lot of the things that it's like, oh, I didn't really know what to do this at the time. But yeah, start small. Get those little winds under your belt to build momentum. And also I've noticed with myself, my daughter's eight and going through her baby clothes when I first, I don't know, when she was like one or two, it was so hard. And I definitely kept a lot more because I'm like, maybe we'll have another girl in the future. So I kept a lot more, but then I returned to the stuff. And I'm like, okay, I think we can get rid of a little bit more of this. return to it again. So it's kind of like, I guess, what is it, exposure therapy? Yeah. Just like exposing yourself to that. And then when you go back through it, it's just easier to detach from it.

It's like, I've exposed myself to this and the feeling, but also I have pictures of her and her, my favorite outfits of hers that she wore. And also, I've donated so much to my sister and my little niece Catherine. And seeing Catherine in Charlotte's clothing is so fun to see. And it's like it's living out those memories and it's reminding me. And now we're on to the next memories. And it's just like don't feel like letting go of those things is letting go of the past or the experiences that you've had. Like those are still with us. And it's like, what's next?

I'm just excited for what's next with my kids. And the items are just so, again, they're unnecessary. Do you edit down and clean your kids' rooms or do you teach them how to do it in their responsible for editing out their possessions? It's a little bit of both. So I think when your kids are younger, you can kind of get in there and just get rid of, I don't know where that went. But I think as they get bigger, I don't want to, again, I don't want it to have the opposite effect of what I would like to instill in my kids. And so I like visual boundaries like, hey, you have this shelf. You can fill it with so much stuff. And then once you get new stuff, we're going to, it's the one in one out

rule. Like you can only fill this cabinet. This is, you can only put things on this shelf. And So I like her to have that visual boundary of where she can bring things in that she likes. And then also usually around Christmas or birthdays, I'll grab a box and say, hey, you're probably going to get some new toys. So is there anything you're not playing with that you want to either if it's still in good shape, donate, gently used, or we're just going to get rid of? So I think I'm hesitant to totally take control and dominate just, I guess, with our minimalism to them because I just never wanted to backfrolet. And I just was telling someone the other day, she got this book at my eight-year-old at the library about cardboard boxes and how you can create toys with recycled materials. Anyways, I went into a room and I was like, Charlotte, you have way too much. And so it's like, what are you actually playing with?

And we can keep a couple, but it's time to get rid of it. And that was an eyesore to me. I didn't want to go in there and see that, but I have little kids. I have kids. And so my house is not going to be exactly perfect of the way that I would want it, without them. But one day I'm going to miss that. And I think that we have to look at our lives in seasons too and say, this is just a season and we can curate it as best as we can, but some things are just going to be for a season. How do you deal with guilt of throwing

away art that your kids make? Like they color a picture and then they are like, let's put this somewhere. And it's like, then you have 200 of these little drawings. Yes. So I have on my phone, and you can do it on your computer too. It's Charlotte the artist, Martin the artist. I don't have one for Benji yet. But I will take a picture of it and then upload it to that file. And then in our scrapbooks that I was much better about making a few years ago, I would have a section of all their art. And then you keep the things that are like really, really special. And then with my kids, I also have these boxes from the container store that, again, it's like a visual boundary.

We're going to put the really special things in here and then go back through and reassess. So with Sharra the other day, actually it was the other day. We just went back through and I'm like, do you still want this? is this still special to you? And she's like, no. So we got rid of it and we created more space in there for her. So again, allowing her to kind of take control. And then we have those from when she's really little, the scrapbook of the. That's genius. Genius with the digital. Like take a picture and then you just have it on there because it's going to take off, take up way less space on your phone or your computer than having the physical art there and keeping all of these, you know, throughout the year. I heard another mom the other day. I was listening to something else. And this mom lives in a multiple. Story House. So they usually live most of their life, like, you know, in the living room,

in the kitchen on the first floor. And so when her kids make art, she'll say to them, okay, if you really want to keep this, then you have to bring it all the way upstairs. And she said nine times out of ten, they're like, eh, no, it doesn't mean that much because they don't feel like walking all the way up to put it where it goes. So she's like, if it really means something to you, you're going to walk all the way up and put it upstairs. And so I was like, that's genius too. And then the other ones just get thrown away. Yeah. You can also display it. So I have these cords from IKEA in her room and I just clip some of her favorite pieces. And then you just switch them in and out.

And if you need to take a picture of it, you can take a picture of it for the scrapbook. But yeah, it's just crazy how I think when you shift your mindset, you do start detaching a little bit more from some of these things. Because I still do. There's things I feel sentimental about. I just found a card from my grandma. And I was like, oh, I'm never getting rid of this. Like this is something that it's just her last handwriting. me and it's like, that's going to be mine. And I have my own box, too, of things that are special

to me. So I'm not trying to say that there aren't items that aren't special that we should be keeping, that it's not hard to get rid of those things. What are some interesting facts that you can tell us about kids who have less toys? So kids that have less toys are typically dealing with less decision fatigue. And I've seen this work coming out of Christmas. And my kids are not playing as well as they had been because there is too much. And it's like, think about you. If you cultivate a closet where you have just things that you know that you love and that you wear regularly, probably like, we'll say 20 to 30 items, it's so much easier to get dressed. But if you have 50, 60, 70, 80, whatever fill in the number of items, it is so much harder to get dressed because you have an

abundance of things. Or think about going to the grocery store. It's like, I just need two cereals. So I can pick which one. But when you have a whole entire I are. I love cereal. Yeah. It is decision fatigue. And then it's like, I don't know how to operate. So I've seen either my kids play not well at all or they go from thing to thing and they're not entertained.

But if you have fewer things, it's like, this will entertain me longer because I don't have a lot of things that I can move to. So I need to figure out a use for this. And I also really love imaginative toys for that reason. Blocks, I would consider an imaginative toy, to where you have multiple uses. Like silks and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Multiple use toys. But also we spend a lot of time outside. So I feel like it's easy if you try and prioritize that, if you live in a climate that you can get outside a lot more. It kind of helps cut down on the number of toys that you feel like you have to own. So would limiting decision fatigue look like going through editing down your children's toys, not necessarily getting rid of them, but you take some and maybe put them in storage or put them away and only keep a few out at a time? And then you just like switch them out. So they're like, oh, something new. Toy rotation is what you're talking about.

Yes. That is helpful too. And especially with Christmas gifts, I will put things away and then we'll bring them out here probably at the end of February. It's like once things have gotten not as exciting, I'll bring something out that they love and I want them to have. So some Lego kits we put in the basement and we'll bring them out here once things aren't as exciting anymore. But I think toy rotation has been really helpful too because things seem new again and exciting again, even though it's like, no, you have this a few months ago. So how do you deal with incoming toys? for birthdays and holidays, like family members and all these people just buying, like, all these junky toys. Like, do parents have to accept all toys and just say thank you? Is it okay to tell your family members, hey, like, we're not doing toys or we just want books or how do you deal with that? Yes, you always have to say thank you. Okay.

Always have to be gracious. However, I have gotten decent about if we go to the store and my kids see something they like, I'll take a picture of it. I have a note in my phone of all the items that they want. you can kind of curate that for birthdays and Christmas list and send that out to grandparents or aunts and uncles. But I would say even for us, we have a few people that just really love to give abundantly. And it can be frustrating sometimes.

But again, when you're gifting a gift, it's no longer yours. So my gift to you, you can do with it whatever you want. And for me as the gift giver, like, I'm not even half. I would say the majority of the excitement in giving you the gift is that moment of connection between you and I. So again, now that the item is yours, you can do with it what you will. And I just think getting ahead of it is really important. And like I said, Amazon list or Lakeshore Learning has registry lists now that you can do to where you can kind of say, this is what my kids want and have them put input in there. But yeah, I would always just say,

be a generous receiver and then what you do with that gift. It's up to the gift giver to manage their feelings enough if they were so hurt that you. Wow. Okay. What I love about this podcast is that every episode is an interview with someone that has an amazing life story or expertise. And this month, obviously, I'm focusing on people in the health and wellness space. This week, we're talking about how to improve your family and personal relationships with

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Good ranchers. American meat delivered. What does it mean to outsource our responsibilities and why should we choose to outsource our responsibilities sometimes? Yeah. Well, I would say like if you're feeling overwhelmed by the responsibilities that you have, it's really important to outsource, again, that energy and what is my focus? And I talk about how priority equals one.

So in the 1400s, priority came into being that term. And it wasn't until the 1900s that we pluralized it and made it priorities. And so I say with if you're finding that you have a lot of priorities as opposed to priority, meaning the most important thing, write down your top five things that you need to do today and cross up the bottom four. Your five like most important things cross up the bottom four. cross off the bottom four and leave the one most important thing of the thing that you need to get done. That's what's priority. So if you're looking at your responsibilities that you're needing to

outsource, what are your top three, top five? And then outsource that if you don't have time and energy. Because I do, I'm not opposed to paying someone to help if it gives me the freedom to invest my time elsewhere. Yeah, like cleaning your car out or going to, you know, get the groceries, having the groceries delivered instead one time, one week. And I would say even something as silly is that I don't ever go to the grocery store anymore. because Giant Eagle has, I think if you spend $35, it's free. They will just bring out your groceries to you. You just put in your little order.

And that's saving me time. So I'm not necessarily paying anyone, but I'm outsourcing those responsibilities so I can focus on other things that take up my time now. And again, that's going to look different for everyone. One of the hardest spaces, I think. It's so overwhelming to me when I think about decluttering it that I just give up without even starting is areas or drawers where I keep random papers. instruction manuals, warranties, old paychecks, bills.

How do you know what to get rid of and what to keep? I throw away most of that stuff. Okay. Okay, so any warranty, I don't know, maybe I just don't. I should buy the, get the warranty, but I don't have it. But with things like instruction manuals, you can Google that. Most of the stuff is digital. That's so true.

See, that's all I needed to hear. Yeah. Because that's what I think. What if this breaks and I don't know to fix it? I can just Google it. Yeah, you can Google it. Duh. And there's YouTube.

videos that show how to fix those things. But old checks, yeah, I don't know why. I think maybe after a certain period of time, like if the check is cleared. Yeah. So basically, I'm just, you're like, Alex, you're keeping this stuff for no reason. Great. Okay, perfect. Does it actually make a difference to tidy the kitchen every night or fold the laundry before we go to bed if we're truly dead tired? Or does it not matter and just do it in the morning? I think, are you familiar with Andrew Huberman? No. Oh, it's, I highly recommend Andrew Huberman in his podcast, but I would say that he would probably say prioritize rest because it's the most important thing. However, I do not like to come downstairs in the morning to a disheveled kitchen.

So if you implement the one minute rule, I heard this from Gretchen Rubin. So anything that you can get done in one minute, give or take a few, do it. So if you're throughout the day cleaning off your lunch plate, doing your breakfast dishes, you're not going to have all of that at the end of the day piling up to where you're having to do it. at the end of the day, you may have a few things. But yeah, I would say that if you can stay on top of it throughout your day, that you can just easily go to sleep. And then in regards to laundry, I do a load of laundry every single day and fold the clothes every single day.

It doesn't take too much time. But also, we've cut our wardrobe and have to wear I don't, I don't have as much laundry. See, how often should we be cleaning out our closets? Like, is that a once-a-year thing, once-a-month thing, every six months? I don't know. I like to do things. I really like the fall as a time to reset and restart. And then the spring, it's kind of the opposite, I guess, of the new year and the summer break. But I like to go through things then. Really, again, it's just is this feeling too crowded? Am I starting to notice? Oh, I have too much. And then just reassess, spend some time, put it in your calendar if you have to. Because I think with decluttering, especially if you're going to go through a lot of things at once, you're going to have to block that off in your schedule. Like don't pull things. out and then not get back to it. Don't start it. And then you're like, I've pulled all this stuff out and I don't have time to continue. It's like maybe you should have scheduled the time to do that. And again, these little decluttering things throughout your day when the mail, when you get the mail,

deal with it right then and there. That's one of the one minute rule things. Hang up your coat, put your shoes away. It's just little things that will save you time at the end of your day. So where you can relax, and that's you should be able to relax at the end of your day. What does it mean to parent with simplicity? Parent with simplicity. Well, I would just say strip away all the things that marketers tell us that we need for our kids. I mean, think back to the past and the way that people used to live. They had not nearly as much.

And in some ways, I'm sure that I romanticized how happy they were. But parenting with simplicity with me is just intentionality as much as I possibly can with what we're doing, what I'm teaching. It's a lot of nature. I'm not opposed to screen time. I just am very intentional about what we watch. And I don't want to go into like, I don't know the science of it. But even screens that are shows that are really, really busy, I don't, it's something about how fast the images our brain are taking in versus like something like Little

Bear from the 90s. If you compare it to something from time. Oh, Cocoa melon is crack cocaine for a baby. I, when I see parents, I'm sorry to be this judgy non-mom, but I will say this. Cocoa Mellon, I just feel like anyone with the brain, you know that has got to be terrible for your kids. But you're right when I think about stuff that I used to watch when I was little. It is totally different, the animation and everything. It's stimulating.

It's over stimulating. It's like just so many visuals that we do not need to take in it once. But yeah, I think the word's inane. My husband's like, I don't really want our kids to watch anything. But just, yeah, it's kind of like the candy of what you could be watching. We don't want to eat that kind of. We don't eat candy every day. Yeah.

We don't want to watch cocoa melon every day. And I think that's hard too. And I haven't experienced this yet, but I can imagine is becoming a new parent, all of these different companies and brands, you need this as a new mom. You need this. You need this. And so you talking about parenting with simplicity. I mean, what do you actually need for those that are pregnant or expecting their first

or have a new baby? Like what items do you remember like, oh, this was worth it? I needed this. And this was just like, why did I even get this? Yeah, I think that for babies, they need very little. I had so many clothes for my daughter. And it's like, oh, she, I'm, I'm just finding that in this very beginning stage, we're very cozy. And she's, I want to be cozy with her. And so she's not needing all these outfits to go everywhere because she's usually in this little, like, bundle that I wrap her up in. So that I really loved, I really loved like a baby Bjorn or like a wearing a wrap that you can wear. You don't need the warm wipes. I have a whole section of my book about what you. You know, you really loved. I really loved like a baby Bjorn or like a wearing a wrap that you can wear. You don't need the warm wipes. I have a whole section of my book about what you. You don't. You don't. You really you actually would bring in. I'm like trying to remember back to when I had little, little kids. One of the things I was telling my friend yesterday that I loved was our Bob stroller and it was an all-trained stroller and I've used it for eight years. I used it with all my kids, all my kids. And it was

more of an expensive splurge gift, but it was something that, again, is going to last, the pack and play that's lasted for all my kids. But I would say this isn't in regards to little babies or what we should be having for newborns, but marketers want you to feel like you need a product and that you don't have enough. And even if you look at the Target floor set, it used to change, I don't know, I think with the season. And now it's, I think they have 40 or something set changes or floor changes throughout the year. And it's like if you, every time you have to go to Target have to get, or fill in the blank of the store that you're going to have to get the new thing, you're never going to be caught up and you're going to be spending money. So when you can also kind of look at it from that

perspective, like, I'm never going to have everything they're trying to sell to me. You can kind of, again, detach from it and say, I'm good with what I have. See, that's the question. When we are at Target, for example, what should we be asking ourselves before we make a purchase? Yeah, I ask myself, do I have something like this? What is my motivation in buying this? Gosh, what else do I say? do I want this because someone else has this? And so if you get, I think that a lot of people probably are listening to this thinking she sounds like she thinks a lot. And she's like overthinking all of the stuff. But I would just say that once you start thinking this way, it just becomes second nature. It is, it's just habit. I don't have to overthink all of these things anymore because this is

just the way that I've lived my life. It's with anything. It's with eating healthy. Yes. You're not thinking nearly as much as you once were about it. It's just coming by your nature now. Yeah, one thing that I have learned in my 20s is I always ask myself when it comes to clothes anyway before I buy it. Well, anything, but definitely clothes for me. Do I like it or do I love it? Yeah. And if I like something, I don't buy it. Or if I go home and I'm like, I don't know, I'm torn between do I just like it or do I love it. But if I go home and I am thinking about it for like three, five days, I have not stopped thinking about that sweater for a week. I'm like, I love it. I need to get it because I know I love it. I'm going to wear it. I'm going to wear it. lot. And so that's kind of how I rationalize what to buy. Yeah, I've done that too. I usually say, if I see something, I'll give it four to six weeks. Wow, longer than me. Yeah. And if I'm like coming back to that in my mind, then I have a conversation with my husband. I'm like, yeah, I think I want to pull the trigger on this one. I want to get this pair of shoes or this jacket or whatnot, what have you. Yes. Also look on Poshmark, though. Yes. Oh, and that too. If I see something

brand new at free people, for example, that I want. I will find the exact product name, type it into Poshmark or eBay, and sometimes with tags, it'll be $40 less on there. I do it all the time. Yeah, it's a great way to save money. Again, I think a lot of my drive is frugality and just where are we spending our money. And so that's a really helpful thing to save money for sure. What is a drop zone in the home? And why is that a bad habit to get into? So drop zones are any area that you're coming in and just dropping as it says dropping your thing. Mudroom countertops. Yeah, mudroom countertops. Jenny little table that you might have side table. You're dropping your keys. You're dropping the mail. You're dropping your kids' school stuff, artwork. And so it's nice to have those areas tidied

because, again, visual clutter is overstimulating. And it just, if we allow that to build up, it ends up taking so much time. And then it's, again, it's like, where do we start? And I don't know how to manage all of this. So if you can just deal with those items right then and there, I have a little bowl for the keys. My husband always seems to lose his keys. So I was like, we're going to get a bowl and your keys are going to go there. And let's try and try and use this bowl every time that you come home. But, yeah, I think that if we have, what is it, a place for everything and everything has a place.

That is something I try to live by too. And again, I think it's okay to have a junk drawer. Like, I'm totally okay with that because some things are obscure and you have no idea where they should go. Yeah, like a miscellaneous. Yeah, it's like this is my miscellaneous drawer. And I know what is in here. And that's why it's here. It's like the island of misfit toys.

Yes. That's a little drawer that we have. What are some life hacks to avoid overpacking? Oh, overpacking. So I came here today. I'm here for 24 hours. And I took a backpack. Wow.

You didn't even do a carry on a backpack. Yeah, I just have a backpack. And I rolled my clothes. And also, if you can kind of capsule for your trip, if you're going on a longer trip, I'm here for a short period of time. But if you are going somewhere for five to seven days, just capsule your thing. So if you're wearing shorts, just have the same pair of shorts that you can maybe wear a day one, day three, day seven, and then have a few shirts that you can mix and match.

And I think with beach trips, it's easier because you're mostly in a bathing suit. Again, I feel like our lifestyles are different. So it's going to look like, I'm like, I don't know what your motives are when you go on vacation and you're like, I want to look sexy and whatnot. But I'm like, I'm a mom. So I'm going to be in the same bathing suit the whole time. Yeah. But I would just say doing that and then are you wanting to know like about kids and like how to travel with kids?

Any of it, all of it. Don't think about me because there's so many people listening that that will relate more to you than me anyway. Okay. Well, yeah. And then just like traveling in general with kids, I always like to, if we have a far drive to go, find a spot along the way that they can get out and play. Or if there's like an exciting thing to see, we were driving through West Virginia and found this really. actually cool town that had these caves nearby and we camped out and it just kind of like breaks up the trip so it's not nearly as stressful but also finding places that have toys like we just went

to Michigan and there was a beach a block away and they had a wagon in the place with beach toys and beach chairs so we didn't have to pack any of that so look at if you're doing Airbnb what is included in your stay yeah but yeah in regards to just like what am I packing in my bag I just think that I think of how often you overpacked. Like, we overpack all the time. And so if you can just say, I'm going to capsule this, I'm going to write it down, go back to that writing it down, and then just get organized. I think having a plan is really important.

You discovered something during the fall when it came to minimalism, socially, mentally what you take on. Could you talk about that? Yeah. I would say that I've always, gosh, I've been living a minimalist lifestyle for like 10 to 12 years at this point. And I feel like I preach, simplify, say no, keep your boundaries. And this fall I took on way too much.

I said yes to, I'm a photographer, and I took on way too many sessions. And October alone, I had 60 many sessions. And with the podcast doing it all by myself and just homeschooling. And I just do a lot. And I thought that my, as an extrovert, my boundary was here. And it was actually down here. And I wouldn't have known that I guess if I didn't say yes to everything, but just seeing how, no, these principles you say that you believe actually are something that you want to live out. And you see now what your mental health is like when you don't. I mean, I was at the point where I was getting emails about photography or like, we want to come on your podcast. And I started getting dizzy. Like I was completely overwhelmed because I had just, I'm like, I don't know how to manage you. I don't know where to put you. That's exactly how I am and why people are like, why don't you just do a podcast on your own. and stuff. I'm like, no, no, no. I have to have these people. I have to have this team to manage,

like helping get you here last minute because we had schedule changes and all that. Like, I couldn't do it. It is amazing to me. So, like, just really a wow factor that you do all of your podcasts by yourself. It is such a good podcast. And you record in your car. Yeah, I do record in my car. That's my studio. Sometimes I'll record the intro and outro in my closet, which I know a lot of podcasters will do that too. But yeah, I mean, this is just a labor of love, creative project that started. It happened to take off. I was not expecting that. At this point, I'm still blown away that anyone wants to talk to me about this or that people are coming on.

But it, yeah, I'm like, I'm just a mom doing this. And so, yeah, I'm doing it in my car. I just, I find the time to figure it out and it fit it in where it fits. But yes, just going back to the October and just fall in general, seeing how minimalism applied to your life. and your mindset is so important. And when we neglect to think that our things or saying yes doesn't, I just feel like I was flailing. Yeah. Yeah. Doing better habits this year with all of that stuff. I love that. What is the name of your podcast, remind us again and where they can listen and what do you cover on your podcast? Obviously, minimalism. Yeah. So it's the minimalist mom's podcast

and you can find me at Minimalist Mom's Podcast on Instagram. I also heard a book about it. Minimalist moms living and parenting with simplicity. But yeah, I don't just talk about decluttering your possessions. As I said, I'm really into the mind and mindfulness, really into just intentional living. So you'll have topics about how to parent. Gosh, I had Sandra Stanley on, who her episodes coming out about parenting with the intention in mind. So it's all these little things that I feel like at this point I've been doing it for five or six years. So I'm like, how can we make this minimalist? And so much of what we're doing is about intentionality and what we how we're building a life to think more and do with less.

You have great guess. Great guess if you're interested in this type of subject matter, especially parenting, which my audience knows I've become obsessed randomly with reading and listening to all these parenting podcasts and parenting books. I just find it interesting to prepare ahead for, you know, one day, God willing, if that happens. But I just think it's fun to listen to people talk about different styles of parenting. And so I've really enjoyed your podcast for that reason. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, I love, I was the same way. I was a nanny, but I was just really into reading about motherhood before I was a mom. So we connected via Jenny Eurich on a thousand hours outside. Mike Viking, he is coming on. He is in Dahuga, which is like the Danish living cozy. I just got two books on that that I haven't read yet. Yes. So he will be on, it'll air in February.

So, yeah, it's just all these different people that are doing things with a life of intention. That's what I want. I want people that are just trying to. be intentional without being redundant. So for those that are like, I'm ready, I'm in, I want to declutter, I want to simplify my house, I want to simplify my parenting. Obviously, besides reading your book, what are some other books that really changed your life in this world?

Yeah, I would say simplicity parenting by, oh my gosh. Oh, Kim or Ken. No, it's Kim. It is? John, you're wonderful. Simplicity parenting. Simplicity parenting. Yes, it is so good.

Yes, let them eat dirt. I'm not going to say the authors. I'm so sorry. I know the titles of these books. I'm like, I don't know the authors. I'm sorry. Let the Meat Dirt was a game changer when I had my son and just everything that they're putting into their mouth. It gave me so much piece about your microbiome. So that's a great book. There's no such thing as Bad Weather. Amazing. Oh, just read that. Yeah. Linda McGurk. I do know her name. I think about Linda. She came on your podcast. Yes. She's been on twice. And she has a new book, The Open Air Life, that goes a little bit more in depth about it. But every time I go outside in bad weather, I'm like, thanks. Linda. I'm so glad that you put this message out there. I loved that book and now fascinated with Swedish parenting and all that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. It is really fascinating. But yeah,

I have a whole list on my website of books that I am really interested in and have changed my life. So the ones that I'm forgetting are on there. And what's your website? Just minimalist momspodcast.com. Perfect. Diane, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise with us. Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here. This is really, I'm so excited that you had me. So much amazing wisdom and encouragement from Diane on how to get not only our things edited down, but extra emotional baggage. That frontier system is a flipping game changer.

I feel so guilty sometimes for not calling people I used to be closer to. But I think, you know what? It's okay. As we get older, our friendships can change. I have had to learn I don't have to buy a gift or go to coffee with every single acquaintance I know. More editing out, those tier three friends that Diane talked about in 2020. I'm also going to take Diane's advice and finally go through my makeup and start throwing things out that I don't need or use.

I definitely recommend her podcast, which is linked in the show notes. And hopefully, this was another health and wellness episode that you took some notes down for. Next week, we'll be getting into the psychology of food, which you will not want to miss. So make sure you aren't just clicking on episodes and listening, but you're actually subscribing. I think on Apple podcast, on the top right corner there, on the main profile for the spillover, there's like a little plus button. If you click that, you'll actually be subscribed to the show and the episodes will automatically download on your phone. That's what helps us the most, okay? Also, leaving a five-star review, do that this week with one tip from Diane Bowden

that you'll be using this year to simplify your own life. If you liked this episode, go back and listen to Season 3, Episode 21, about the Art of Homemade. with Sally Clarkson. Also, you'll really like season one, episode 23, all about the woke problems at HGTV and just the interior design business in general with two conservative interior designers. The spillover is back next Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific, midnight Eastern, anywhere you get your podcast. Subscribe to Poplittics on YouTube if you want to watch these interviews every week.

I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love you, mean it. Bye.