Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - How To Raise A Charlie Kirk | Turning Point Academy’s Dr. Hutz Hertzberg

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

Have you ever wondered what it takes to raise a leader like Charlie Kirk? In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Hutz Hertzberg, Charlie’s longtime friend and now Chief Education Officer at Turning Point Education. We talk about Charlie’s faith journey, why he pushed to abolish the Department of Education, how parents can pick the right U.S. History curriculum, and why Dr. Hertzberg is hopeful about the future of America’s schools.Our Guest:Dr. Hutz HertzbergDr. Hutz's Links:WebsiteInstagramTurning Point EducationFOLLOW ALEX:Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the Cuteservatives Facebook group to connect with likeminded friends who love America and all things health and wellness!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the CUTEservative Facebook Group!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.

Have you ever found yourself wondering, how can I be sure to raise a Charlie Kirk? Well, I thought it would be fitting to talk to someone who's been in Charlie's orbit since he was a child. A few decades later, Charlie personally tapped him to spearhead Turning Point USA's Education Initiative. Today on the show, I'm joined by Dr. Hutz-Hertsburg, Chief Education Officer of Turning Point Education, where he leads all of their educational strategy and staff. Before that, he served as president of a Christian, school in the northern suburbs of Chicago, which, under his leadership, was consistently ranked the number one best Christian high school in Illinois. His career spans two decades in higher ed,

leadership roles at places like the Moody Church in 20 years as a Navy Reserve chaplain, mostly with the U.S. Marine Corps. In this conversation, we talk about how Charlie's faith deepened over the years, why Charlie was so passionate about abolishing the Department of Education, how to choose the right U.S. history curriculum for your homeschool, and what gives Hutz hope that we can turn things around in the public school system. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture apothecary on Spotify. Please take two seconds to leave a five-star review for this show. This is a free way to support us and help us continue Charlie's mission for us to heal us at

culture physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Please welcome Chief Education Officer of Turning Point Education and Lifelong Friend of Charlie Kirk's Dr. Hutz Hertzberg. You've known, or at least indirectly known, Charlie Kirk, since, since he was in fifth grade. What can you tell us about Charlie Kirk as a child? Yes, it is true that I've known of Charlie since he was in fifth grade. The school that I was serving as president,

when I was president of a K-12 school in the northern suburbs, a young man on our staff came to me shortly after I had started. And he said, do you know about this person? He said his name, Charlie, and all the great things he's doing. I said, no, I had no idea. And I said, how do you know all of this about Charlie? he said, well, I was a classmate of his at this school. I said, you're kidding.

And so I learned then that his third grade teacher had gone. His fourth grade teacher had left, but his fifth grade teacher was still there, Cindy. And so she was getting ready to retire. And so I went to Cindy and said, Cindy, I just understand that Charlie Kirk was a student. Tell me, what was he like as a fifth grader? And again, keep in mind, this was a few years ago, you know, even, before all the things are happening now with Charlie. And she said, well, I do remember very, very well.

There was a couple of things. First of all, he was a tall, gangly kid. Still was. Yeah, yeah. Second of all, he was always carrying a football. He'd have his football in the locker, and then he would carry his football around in his arm. And so that was another thing she remembered.

But then this is really funny. She said he was always trying to organize the other kids. And I'm thinking, you know, we just don't really change that much. But as it turned out, Alex fifth grade was a very instrumental year because Cindy was a very godly teacher. And you know, of course, that I lead the education division. So for teachers and parents Sunday school teachers, this is a great thought or lesson. Every day she would pray over the chairs in her classroom before the students would come, praying that they would grow in the relationship of the Lord or come to the relationship with the Lord.

and it was during Charlie's fifth grade year that he committed his life to Jesus Christ. And Charlie gives testimony to that. So that's probably the most important thing that I can share about Charlie as a young boy. But that set the trajectory of his life. How did you see Charlie grow in his faith from childhood to adulthood? What I just relayed was when he was in fifth grade. When I began to know Charlie, it was 2017. So now Charlie's 23.

He's maybe 24, right in that age, probably 23. He reached out and said, you know, if there's congratulations, Dr. Hertzberg and your new position as president of CHA, if there's anything that I can do for you, please let me know. That showed a little bit of Charlie's heart right there. I mean, how many people you offer, but we know that's who he was. And then he became a donor of the school. Most people don't know that. And they became a generous donor of the school. Most people don't know that.

But all belies his heart and, you know, his desire to be of help. But in terms of spiritual growth, you know, it really wasn't until I came on board. in 2022 that I was able to walk in the June of 2020 to walk closely enough with Charlie to see his faith up close and for real. And I have to tell you, Alex, that, and I say this now to all the people that have asked me about Charlie and I talk about Charlie, more than anything else, more than being a social conservative commentator or activists or all the different things that he's called, he was first and foremost a Christian. He was first and foremost a follower of Christ. He truly love the Lord. And as you well know, because you're very close to him, was very close to him,

there was not a talk that he gave in these last few years that he didn't talk about his relationship with the Lord, even including just right in Utah, the very first question that he was asked was about his faith. So I've just saw Charlie become more outspoken, it's more bold about his faith. And I also saw it's a real genuine faith. That was the most important thing to Charlie. What makes you say it was a real genuine faith? The reason I say that is because I saw that faith in private, not just in public on the stage. And you heard and saw Charlie many, many times like I did up in front, you know, in the public square, giving testimony to his faith. But I saw it privately in our interactions, in the scripture verses that he would text me.

And I know not just me, but to many people, he would share scripture verses. When we had the opportunity to pray together, you know, I saw a man that genuinely believed in the power of prayer. and as you probably know, even the two-hour flight, or a little bit longer than two-hour flight up to Utah from Phoenix, the day that he was assassinated, he was reading his Bible, and he was texting his pastor asking questions. And so, and I have that confirmed by a person that was right next to him that that's what he was doing. So I say it's a real faith because it was a, not just a public persona kind of faith, which is tough enough, you know, I mean, you've got to give him a lot of credit for that. but it was also a personal faith that was just overflowed into the public arena. What are some funny memories or just personality quirks about Charlie that you can share? He did love football. And so, you know, we talked a little bit of football. And again, very interestingly, you know, he was a big Oregon Ducks fan.

I think you probably know that, although not everybody didn't know that. So he was assassinated on Wednesday. He was flying to Chicago on Saturday to watch the Oregon Ducks play Northwestern, which is in our backyard, which. is very close to where we live. So that's a part of Charlie that everyone probably doesn't know. Big Chicago Cubs fan, as we've learned as well. And you also know that sometimes he'd show up in meetings,

you know, t-shirt and shorts. I thought that was, you know, a little interesting, but he was a busy guy. Yeah, let me tell you something. You could never say that Charlie Kirk was vain, ever. Yeah, that's true. I mean, he probably didn't have as much coaching as I have in the way that I look. I mean, he just did not care.

about what he was wearing or whatever. And I think Eric had probably tried the best she could to kind of help a little bit with that. But he was just so work-focused, mission-focused. He just did not care about what he looked like. Well, that's a great point. And so when he engaged me about the possibility of leading this new division that he was starting,

you know, after an initial Zoom call, then he invited me to come down and interview him. And so we were in this building, in the boardroom, right across the way there. And Charlie walks in with a T-shirt and shorts. and, you know, I wasn't off put by that. I mean, I know that he's a busy guy. There's a lot of stuff going on.

He apologized, which was not necessary. But, you know, that's a little bit different than, you know, what you're expecting, you know, for the first meeting of the CEO of a, you know, pretty big organization. But here's the thing. And this, again, is not so much quirky as it was just Charlie. So, you know, he's asking me questions. It was the most friendliest interview I've ever had. So if you want to get a job, either he's going to ask the date,

you or he's going to hire you. But it was just very friendly. And he didn't ask to date you, right? No, he didn't ask that question. But I know that at least one person he did ask that to. But I've learned that, you know, in the course of, you know, thinking about a new position, you want to kind of interview the person that's going to be, you're going to be working with. It's very important. You can have the best job in the world. But if the person you're working with is not a good fit, then that doesn't, then the best job of the world cease to be the best job in the world. So towards the end of our time, I said, Charlie, I'm just, you know, I'm just wondering, what is your goal for Turning Point USA and Turning Point Academy? You know, what is your goal?

And he looked me right in the eye and he said, to save Western civilization. And I kind of laughed and thought, yeah, that's really funny. He kind of smiled a little bit. And then I realized he was dead serious. And I thought, count me in. I want to be a part of this team. Can you speak to why Charlie thought we should gut the Department of Education? And I think he even had said it was unconstitutional. Well, I know from our educator summits, you know, he gave powerful, powerful explanation that it's not the government's responsibility to educate our children. And of course, we believe that. We believe that's a God-given responsibility to parents to educate children. At the end of the day, those of us that are parents, we're going to have to give an account to the Lord for the way that we raised our children. Charlie understood that as well as anybody that it's not, you know, responsibility to be offloaded to the government to anybody else, really. It's the parents' responsibility. the Department of Education, and it's interesting you asked that question because just yesterday, believe it or not, I was with the Secretary of Education in D.C. We made a major announcement. Turning Point is one of the major co-sponsors of the 250 Coalition, 250 Civics Coalition,

where we're going to do a national push, if you will, on civics for this next year leading up to the 250th birthday. But, you know, Charlie's just saw the failures in the Department of Education, as many of us have seen. and we're just so thankful that President Trump is dismantling it. And I sat right across the table from Lyndon McMahon. And she's resolute in doing that. And so Charlie was, as usual, ahead of his time, seeing that, push for it. And I'm thankful that it's actually happening. Okay, now that you bring up the 250th birthday, this is what President Trump was talking about when he was campaigning, wasn't it?

That we were going to have a big party? Yes. Okay. This is so interesting because I completely forgot about this, that he had said that until just now. And so what you're saying is President Trump is kind of working on this thing like in our public schools to do some civics education and stuff. Is that what you're talking about? Huge. Huge.

And so he's charged Linda McMahon. And so the American First Policy Institute and the Department of Education are coming together to form this coalition of over 40 education organizations. But the two major sponsors of this movement or effort is Turning Point, USA, slash education. and Hillsdale College. So Dr. Larry Arron, the president of Hillsdale, and I, along with Secretary McMahon, were the three speakers to this group. And so we, in the Library of Congress,

just yesterday, and spoke to this huge crowd of educators all around this table. And then we had a press conference with all the members of the press, liberal, conservative, everybody in between. And so we had the opportunity to speak again about this initiative. And then we had a lunchtime together

and had some more informal time. And that's when, you know, I had the opportunity to really talk with Secretary McMahon and just get a sense of how serious she is about this. But to your question, yes, it's a major initiative that was announced. You'll be hearing more about it. But there's going to be something that's going to happen in all 50 states. It's going to start in Delaware and Philadelphia. There's going to be a speaker series. There's going to be not only lectures, but there's going to be opportunities for students to learn more about our country, new curriculum that's going to be introduced.

It's really a four or five-pronged effort to help research. store civics education in the United States. And no 1619 project. Amen. Wow, that's so incredible that you were doing that. You were just in D.C. I mean, that is, you know, at the time we're filming this, yesterday would have been six days after Charlie's murder.

And, you know, you're representing Turning Point USA, Turning Point Academy. And I have been telling the media for the last several days that we have not stopped. We've not stopped as an organization. And Charlie would have wanted that. He would have been so proud of us for that. He would have been proud of you for going to D.C. and getting on that plane. I mean, what was that like for you getting on the plane to, you know, head to all these meetings, you know, after Charlie's murder? Well, just like you, Alex.

And you said it so well the other night on National Fox News. But we're more resolute than ever. And, you know, as I had the opportunity to speak, I began both with or speaking to all these education leaders. but then also at the press conference when I gave the opening statement that I said on September 10th, 2025, everything changed for us and nothing changed for us. And by everything, of course, when you lose your founder and CEO, I mean, you know, it's not business as usual. That's a big deal. And certainly somebody like Charlie.

But on the other hand, it's not like we're folding the tents that we're going backwards, we're cowering. We're more resolute, more committed, more focused than ever. And I know that's true in my division. I know that's true in your division. I know that's true in listening to my colleagues now and then hearing Erica herself. So I think it's really representative of who we are right now. And I think, you know, there's very few organizations that would be in that place if their founder had just been assassinated.

I agree with you. And you know what I think? I think that part of the reason we are able to move forward in the capacity that we are at this point, And don't get me wrong, while being wrecked with immense grief is because this organization is filled top to bottom with strong Christians. Strong Christians. From Charlie and Erica to you to Marcus Wada, who is the director of productions for Turning Point USA. I mean, this is why. It's group chats filled with prayers every morning.

It's coming in early for Bible studies. Just like Charlie's fifth grade teacher was praying over seats, I know that they're a direct. in this organization that are praying over our individual desks every day. That is something so incredibly magical and special and supernatural about Turning Point USA as an organization that probably hardly any other organizations can say. You know, the way I say it, Alex, is that this is the most Christian, non-Christian organization I've ever been a part of. Because really, we're not a Christian organization per se, but to what you just said,

we're filled with Christians. People that love the Lord and they want to use their gifts, talents, and abilities for the Lord. And then we share common values, conservative values that, you know, it's not by mistake that we're all here at Turning Point because we believe in what the mission of the organization is. But I think you're absolutely right. I mean, we share that common faith. And we know that's not 100 percent, but it's a pretty high number of percent in our organization. Charlie chose you to run Turning Point Academy and Turning Point Education, which is a separate division of Turning Point. I mean, we have all types of departments. We've got productions, like I mentioned,

We have events. We have graphic design. We have our national field program, which is who's in charge of all the chapters on college campuses, CVP, and then you've got Academy. So can you talk about what Turning Point Academy is? Because some people may not even know about it even as a homeschool family. Well, can I give you just a little background of how it even came to be? Yes, please. So you well know and all your listeners well know that Charlie started on college campuses and that continued right up to the last day of his life, you know, for 13 years. You know, he brought the work to college campuses, but also, as you just articulated so well, you know, the organization has grown

into some other amazing kinds of things. But Charlie began to see that kids were coming to college campuses already indoctrinated. I think of what Dr. Robert George, Professor jurisprudence at Princeton University, I heard him being interviewed not that long ago. And someone said, Dr. George, what is different on college campus this day? He's this distinguished professor at Princeton University, been there, been a professor of 39 years. And he said, I've noticed in the last 10 years or so that kids are now coming already indoctrinated at college. It used to be that they came to college and they got indoctrinated. So Charlie had this pulse on that. And I began to see that too. I've been in Christian higher education for a good part of my life. But I began to see the same thing.

Even in Christian schools, kids were already being indoctrinated before they got to Christian. in colleges. And so I realized that you have to go younger. You have to go upstream to get the kids younger. And so Charlie was seeing that. And so I think that was part of his thinking in terms of starting something that's going to reach younger kids, younger, you know, rich families earlier. So that gave birth to Turning Point Academy a little over three and a half years ago. And when he brought me onto the scene and ended up asking me to lead Turning Point Academy, there was a big vision, not much on paper. And so, but Charlie, you know, did a big splash in the media, as you would expect.

And we got incredible interest right out of the gate. I remember one of the first things I did had to do was to go through 300 emails. And it ranged everything from we have $15 million here in Nashville, come and start a school for us to my daughter's in sixth grade. What history book would you recommend? And everything in between. So we had to bring focus to what Turning Point Academy, that was our name at that time.

I'll mention that we have updated our name. And so that was one of the great challenges, but a good challenge is to really bring focus. And we have five major areas of focus. We felt like just a couple of months ago, maybe three months ago, that we've really outgrown our name because Turning Point Academy, people would always say,

well, where's your school? And we would say, well, we're not a school or movement of God-centered virtuous education to promote student flourishing, but we were always having to kind of explain our name. And actually I told Charlie that when, you know, he came up with that name. And he said, well, Hutz, you know, I think people will get it.

And, you know, and they did. But when I came to him about three months ago, and I can remember where we had this conversation, he said, Huss, if you think that's the right name, then just go for it. So we did change your name from Turning Point Academy, Tony Point Education. Alex gives a better picture of really what we're doing. But we have five major areas of emphasis that I could share with you. Yeah, what are the five areas? Charlie's original thought was we're going to start Dream City schools across the country.

and some of your listeners would not know Dream City. It's a Christian school in Phoenix that, and then the church has a close relationship with Charlie. And so they were our first school, if you will. But five-day-a-week Christian school, and right now under some really, really great leadership. But the challenge is to try to replicate a five-day-a-week school to hire full-time employees,

to hire and then to find a day of appropriate facility, is a ton of money. And I said to Charlie, I said, if your vision is Dream City School, we'll start maybe three or four a year if we're fortunate. There's got to be a better model so that we can really scale this across the country. And so long story short, Alex, we came up with what we call our 5C model, Christian, classical, conservative, collaborative, cost affordable. Every one of those C is important, but hybrid model. So our students are in the classroom two to three days a week, and we're partnering with churches.

Churches, as a lot of your listeners will know, are usually available during the week. I mean, there might be a Wednesday night program, maybe a Tuesday night program, but a lot of churches have these great classrooms that are not being used during the week. And so we have leveraged that and working with churches across the country to use their facilities. Because as the school that I led that Charlie attended, my two's highest costs were your personnel costs and your building and grounds costs. So we wanted to bring that way down. And so our personnel costs have now been brought down because our teachers are part-time teachers. They lay out the work for the week in the classroom and then the students come back usually one other day a week. But the students then

are activating or working on the class work when they're home and then they come back, report out to the teacher, give reports. So we feel like it's the best of homeschooling and the best of five-day-a-week school. But for the purposes of turning point, we've been able now to scale that model across the country for all those reasons that I just mentioned, not the least of which, it's a cost affordable model. And this model, on average, is $2,500 a year for students, the cost of students to attend. That's unheard of for high quality Christian education in the country. The school I led, it was $18,000 a year. And, you know, I tried to raise close to a million dollars in financial aid.

And, you know, but $18,000 times two kids, times three kids, times one year, two years, three years. it costs people out. You know, people are priced out. And so we wanted to come up with a different model. So anyways, that's the model. We starting schools across the country. This year we're working with 43 groups across the country. There's a nine to 12-month incubation period.

But school groups from Alaska to Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And are these like homeschool co-ops or what? Well, no, they're the hybrid model. Okay. So most, all of these will turn out to be some version of what I've just said. So the students will come to usually a church building. It's not 100% church buildings, but most of them are. And they'll get their instruction usually like maybe on a Monday,

and then they'll come back on a Wednesday or Thursday for their instruction. But their work is all laid out for them. A lot of people you say, well, you should be homeschooling. They'll say, I'm not an educator. I don't know anything about it. I don't know anything about curriculum. Where do I start? We've taken all that out of the equation because of this model.

All of that is done by performance. And so it's now the students that just have to, you know, to do the work once they're at home. And so under parent supervision, but the older the child gets, you know, the less supervision they need. But they're graded by teachers. They give presentations in classrooms. They actually get report cards. We don't even call it homeschooling. We call it school, but it's a hybrid model of school.

That's the number one thing that we're doing. But we are doing a few other things. We do educator summits and you were so gracious to be at our educational. Summit this summer in Tampa, Florida. This was our biggest so far. I think we had about five, six hundred people that had signed up for it. We get private school attendees. We get Christian school attendees. We had homeschooling families. We get public school teachers and administrators. So we were able to attract a big cross-section of folks, which is great. And then curriculum. We felt like there's certain areas where there's, there was a lack. And particularly patriotic

curriculum that had Christian values or Judeo-Christian values. The amount of interest in our curriculum, and now we have seven, eight different pieces of curriculum that we've created, more on the drawing board, has been off the charts, just off the charts. I mean, this is a blow you away. You better be sitting down when I tell you this, because since Charlie's assassination, since his passing, we've had over one million orders of our curriculum. Oh my gosh. One million. I am convinced My audience makes up about 800,000. I don't disagree with that. When I posted the links to get the curriculum for people, I was like, hey, you should, you know,

one of the different facets of Turning Point, which I love, is Turning Point Education. And I posted that link and I was like, holy cow. I mean, it was like flying off and it was like sold out and all that. Well, we'd give you royalties except we don't charge anything for it. Yeah, it's free. So you can just use code education, right, and get a digital version of the curriculum. Absolutely. And that's what people all across the world. Let me just quickly interject this, because again, since Charlie's passing, we've heard from people from 196 countries.

I didn't know there was that many countries. I've looked there. I think there's about 220, but I mean, the interest has been off the charts. And with all the sadness that we feel in Charlie's death, I mean, the Lord is using this in amazing ways. And it's not just in our division. You're hearing the stories all across the board. But you ask what we're doing, turning point education. We're starting schools. We do educator summits, curriculum. We have an association. That's our fourth major initiative where we have people from around the country and probably

soon around the world that share our values that want to lock arms with other people that are concerned about making a difference in education. We call them affiliates. And they're invited to join. They're in the inner circle of what we're doing. We have special updates for them. We connect them with each other. It's very exciting, actually.

We also have affiliate schools. We have affiliate organizations. And then our latest initiative, and this also is exciting, is we've launched prep year. And one of the last things that Charlie did for us, again, just a week before he went to the Lord, is that he recorded a greeting to our prep year students. These are post-high school prior to going on to college or whatever they're going to do next. It's a nine-month-in-residence program where they study the great book, the Bible, the great books of Western civilization, you know, that Charlie was always a champion of,

the great documents of our country. So great books, great documents, the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist Papers, Bill of Rights. And then they have great mentors, great speakers, teachers. And so this is a nine-month-in-residence. This is really like the special forces of Turning Point. And so we have 34 amazing students in Fort Worth, Texas, that are there right now from across the country, 16 states, this is our first iteration of it, it's only going to explode. And Charlie says on this video that, you know, Hudson, you came to me and said, you know, let's do something.

You're always talking about not going to college. Well, let's provide an alternative. Well, this is an alternative. And the program is designed, Alex, to provide such a great foundation for these students that regardless of whether they go on to college, and several of them will, or into the military, or into the trades, or into the arts, or become an entrepreneur or homemaker, or whatever it may be, they're going to have a foundation that they never got in school prior to this.

Because schools don't teach civics anymore. Schools don't teach biblical worldview. Right. Unfortunately, even a lot of Christian schools don't do a great job at that. So you ask what we're doing, that's the major things that we're doing at Turning Point Education.

Do you think that there's a future where Turning Point might offer prep year as like an online paid course that people could do? Well, you know, so much of what we do is in the classical pedagogy where we want interaction with one another. We want more of a Socratic kind of method where there's interaction back and forth. The students do a lot of presentations, discussion, they break into groups. And I know some of that can be done online.

It's something special in person. It really is. Yeah. It really is. Who can get involved with Turning Point Education and how? Well, I would say almost anybody could and should get involved in a turning point education. I would say anybody that is concerned about the future of our country, that is concerned, concerned about the precious children in our country should at least check us out, if not get engaged

with us in some way, shape, or form. I mean, this is the future of our country. And Charlie, again, saw that and realized, you know, we want to be active and do some significant, important things at that level. So if a parent, you know, wants to be involved by either being, taking advantage of our curriculum or attending an educator summit or being one of our affiliates and our association, say those are all be great ways for them to be connected. Teachers, you know, we support teachers all the time, again, through our curriculum, through our educator summits. And if people are interested in really partnering with our organization to help them start a school,

you know, we're so fortunate. We have wonderful donors at Turning Point, as you all know. And so we're able to provide everything that I'm saying to you without cost. And so we walk with a group of people for nine, 10, 12 months from conception to birth and starting a school. And so in your area, if there's not a great school, we will help you start a school. And we give all of our experience, our expertise. We take them from A to Z in the course of, again, nine months.

And then we help launch them and most make it to launch. Not all of them do, but many most do. And then even if they launch, we're still there for them to mentor them and help them. So I would say, Alex, that anybody who's concerned about the children of our country And they answer your question about how they can be a part of turning point education, very simply, probably the greatest or the easiest starting point is just go to our website. You can find us by going the TPSA.com website, but even better, just go directly to our website, turning point ed.com. And everything I just said, Alex, is there, how to start a school, the educator summits that we do, the curriculum, the association, which again, I love for your listeners to seriously consider that. And then if they have a soon-to-be graduate of high school to really consider a prep your program.

But it's all at our website, turning point ed, all one word.com. You'll appreciate this. So in our neighborhood on Sunday mornings, you know, we go to church, but we look around, there's hell of any other cars going out for church on Sunday. But there's many families, and every family, one way or another, intersects with education, whether it's in the public school, whether it's in some other form of education. And so I love turning point faith. I feel like their mission is critical for the future of our country.

But, you know, most, many people are not connected with church, unfortunately. Everybody's connected with education if they have kids. Yeah. So I feel like our universe is so huge. And we're just, we're just scratching the surface. So we've got a lot to do. What can parents do today to ensure that they are raising the next Charlie Kirk? Well, they can send them a prep year because that's what we say. These are the future Charlie Kirk's of our country. But short of that, you know, I think it's to help them understand civics, you know, that really undergird what our country's all about, to really understand our nation, how it was founded, why that's important. You know, Charlie was self-taught in a lot of ways and, you know, and I don't know how much he, I think he got a little bit of that in our school when he was there, but he then went to the public school after that.

that you got zero from the public school. To love America, you've got to know America. I mean, you can't really love something you don't know. And that's the problem today is that kids that they don't have any really true knowledge of our country, the greatness, the founding, the history, why all these things are so important, you know, for our country right now. And so Charlie, you know, was committed to learning that and certainly propagating that. So I would say parents, help your children understand why our nation is unique.

It's a unique experiment that has survived now 250 years. And so that would be one thing. And then, you know, of course, you know, helping them to understand that this is one nation under God, that God was central to the founding of this country. I mean, those two things. They help students, their children, understand this nation was founded with a central belief and faith in God. And then why is America so exceptional? We've lost that understanding of the exceptionalism of America. Yes.

We're trying to bring that back. Yeah. As you are, as so many of the people that are listening, I would love for your listeners to join arms with us, to partner with us, to join our association. There's no charge to join our association. They will be strengthened in their resolve, and they'll be connected with people just like them all across the country

that care about the very things that I just said. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be? I mean, I would honestly have to say, I mean, God has got to be the starting point. Again, for just as we were talking, you know, our nation was founded in a strong belief in God. And so that's not your starting point. You're going to end up at a very different point. So really, I would say, I mean, if you're really pinning me down to answer that question,

you know, we need a returning to God in our country. You know, some people call it revival. people have mistaken notions of what true genuine biblical revival is. But an awakening where God, you know, is working in our country, people are turning back to him, families are turning back to him. It might be happening now. It might be happening now. You're exactly right.

And isn't that just like the Lord to do that? And, you know, of course, scripture talked about that unless a seed dies and falls to the ground, you know, it is not able to be multiple. It comes back multiple fold. And so John 1224 speaks about that. I do see that happening right now. And, you know, time will tell. We'll be able look back and say this was the start of an amazing.

This was the turning point. This was the turning point. Wouldn't that be ironic but wonderful? Dr. Hertzberg, you are a great friend of the Kirk family and all of us at Turning Point. Thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate you so much. Thank you, Alex. What a sweet man.

I love him. Turning Point education is my absolute favorite department of Turning Point. You say, don't tell Turning Point Productions that. But I love what they've got going on. and it was very, very dear to Charlie's heart as well. So if you didn't know about it and your homeschool mom or you're a teacher or, you know, some kind of administration official in the school system, I hope that you will check out Turning Point Education.

They throw amazing events also, by the way. So something to think about. This episode concludes my tribute episodes to Charlie Kirk. And we're going to take the next week off. So there will be no new culture apothecary episodes. We will be back on regular schedule with our regular type of maha episodes on Monday, October 6 with an incredible guest, a doctor who specializes in Napro technology, who is helping women get pregnant without IVF. This was a cause that was incredibly important to Charlie, right?

Having kids, revitalizing the American family. So I am so excited to continue on Culture Apothecary with that episode first. I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture Apothecary.