Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “I Got Cancer, Ditched Chemo & Healed Naturally.” - With Chris Wark

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

Chris Wark was diagnosed with colon cancer in his twenties but, rather than going through chemo, he chose a different road to healing: Changing his diet. It was a huge risk that he received criticism and doubt for, but he knew he had to do what was best for him. Spoiler alert: His intuition was right. Chris’ improved diet and lifestyle healed his body and changed his life. Chris is not a medical professional, he’s just a regular man who bet on himself and won. Now a best selling author, Chris...

I am a firm believer in giving credit where credit is due, so I just have to give kudos to Alliebeth Stuckey for first introducing me to this guest last fall on her podcast relatable. It was so good and he was so fascinating that I texted her and I said, this is your best interview of 2022. And I knew I had to have him on. At just 26 years old, today's guest was diagnosed with stage three colon cancer. When you're caught between life and possibly death,

you have one chance to get it right. After listening to doctors' demand that he immediately start chemotherapy, he couldn't ignore his natural instincts telling him that in spite of being given a diagnosis, he had the ability to change his prognosis if he buckled down and radically changed his diet, mindset, and lifestyle. Half of men and nearly one-third of American women are predicted to get cancer in their lifetime. It's highly likely that someone you love or even you have had to face the horrific nightmare. that is cancer in your life. Maybe you or your loved one chose chemo. Maybe you didn't. Maybe you or someone you loved was just diagnosed

and aren't sure what route you want to take. What I hope you take from this conversation is not that chemo is going to kill you or that it's a mistake, but that there are options for you to know about even if your doctor isn't explicitly suggesting them. And most importantly, there will be amazing tips, tricks, and habits to learn about in this episode

that can help improve everyone's health, not just cancer patients. There may be suggestions you vehemently disagree with, and let me just give the disclaimer that today's guest is not a doctor or a scientist. Obviously, I'm not either. He's just a regular person, like you and I, who was diagnosed with cancer, chose nutrition and non-toxic therapies over chemo and one. And he's helped millions of people around the world do the same thing. Welcome Chris Wark, aka Kris Beat Cancer, to the spillover. Chris, you believe that cancer is actually not something you fight. You believe that it's something you can heal naturally. That piqued my interest from the get-go.

And really, that goes against everything that we've been taught as a culture about cancer. And it's also your true story. So could you start from the beginning and kind of tell us about that? Sure. Thanks for having me on, by the way. So I was diagnosed with stage three colon cancer when I was 26. This was December 2003. And I've been married for a couple years and I was working in real estate and playing music and just really excited about my life. And I started having abdominal pain and it kind of progressed and got worse throughout the year. And then by, you know, December it was pretty intense and I had a colonoscopy and they found a golf ball size tumor. So that was confirmed colon cancer.

I was told you got to have surgery right away. We got to get this thing out of you before it spreads and kills you. And at that point, I would say, I would describe myself as a very typical cancer patient. And that is I had no idea what cancer was. I didn't know what caused cancer. I didn't know what the treatments were. Didn't know anything about the disease. And I've never even really had any one close to me go through it, like a family member or

a friend. And so I was pretty clueless. And I happened to delay my surgery about 10 days because it was right before Christmas. And I was like, can we just not do this over the Christmas holiday? And so I went in on December 30th. And they took out a third of my large intestine. That's where the tumor was and a bunch of lymph nodes. And when I woke up, they said, you're worse than we thought.

You're stage three. And stage two with colon cancer, that means at least at that time, the standard of care was surgery. and you go home and you're done. Stage three means surgery and chemo. So I initially accepted the fact that, okay, I guess I got to do chemo. I mean, it was such a shock to get a cancer diagnosis at 26 years old. It's a shock at any age, but less surprising when you're middle aged, right, or older. And, you know, I felt like my life was over and I felt completely powerless and hopeless.

I'm a believer. I'm a Christian, you know, and it was a pretty big blow to me to my faith because I'm thinking, God, like, why am I the guy with cancer? You know, like, there's rapists and child molesters walking around. Like, why don't they have this? You know, why did I get it? I'm like trying to be a good guy here. And so, I mean, that's, you know, I think every cancer patient is wrestling with those kind of thoughts, especially if you're a believer. And, but I was reminded of this first, which is Romans 828. we know that God works all things for the good of those who love him who are called according to his purpose. And it was a challenge to my faith right there because I'm like, okay, if I believe this, then I have to believe that God's going to work this for my good, right? If I believe that God is real and the Bible is true. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to trust that he's going to work this for my good. I'm scared. I don't like it.

I want to trade places with anybody, but here I am in this situation. So I'm going to believe that he's going to work it for my good. So while I was in the hospital, a couple things happened. The first thing that happened was after they took out a third of my large intestine, and they served me Alex's favorite meal, which is The Sloppy Joe. Me? Yeah. Why do you say my favorite meal?

I'm just joking. So I'm joking because it's no one's favorite. Yeah. Well, and also not something you would expect to be served in a hospital. You would not expect it. And I did not. And nobody likes sloppy Joe. They don't serve them in restaurants because nobody wants one.

Okay. But surprise, you know, they serve them in hospitals. You know, I always thought the sloppy Joe is something that you would find in the military, you know, our summer camp or maybe if you're in prison, right? They're serving sloppy Joe's. Yeah, gruel. That's what I always say when you're in prison, you get gruel. Yeah, gruel. Gruel is like the prison food from like the Middle Ages. Yeah, maybe they still serve it. But no, now prisons, they serve like Burger King in there. It's sick.

Anyway, so I, you know, was surprised. I was surprised that they were serving the cancer patient, a sloppy Joe. Did you ask about it? Were you like, why did you give me this? No, no. I was on heavy, heavy pain medication, right? I was super doped up. It was just enough for me to go. And I was hungry. It was my first meal I'd eaten in like, I don't know, 36 hours or something. And I was like, okay, this is terrible, but I'm hungry. I guess I need to, I'll just eat it, you know. And then the other thing that happened was a couple days, you know, a few days went by. It was all kind of a blur, but they finally said, okay, you can go. home this afternoon and my surgeon came in to check on me and we were having a conversation and I said, hey, is there any food I need to avoid? Because again, they cut my stomach open. They took out a section, a foot and a half of my large intestine. Everything you eat is going through there, right? It's all going down the tube. And so, you know, I just want to make sure, like, is any food off limits? Like hot sauce, is that a problem or Doritos or, you know what I mean? So the answer I got was no, just don't

lift anything heavier than a beer. Wow. Just absolutely zero nutritional guidance. Like it didn't matter at all. And so immediately your red flags went up, you're like, well, that just cannot be right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't argue with the guy, but I was like, okay. And, you know, I knew that I knew what healthy food was. I actually. worked at a whole foods before they got bought out was called wild oats i worked at a wild oats in college like i knew what juicing was i knew what wheatgrass was i knew you know like what organic was i wasn't eating that way because it was expensive and i was broke at that time and um both right and uh but i knew there was a world of health food and my mom was kind of into healthy food and so it was just

weird to me i'd say why is there such a big disconnect between eating healthy and healthy food and the healthcare industry. So all the signals I'm getting from the healthcare industry are it doesn't matter what you eat. And what happens pretty much, I mean, again, I've been around in the cancer space as a survivor and a patient advocate for 19 years. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And what I have found to be true is that most patients, they ask their doctor, why did I get cancer? And the doctor says, well, we don't know, it may be genetic or may just be bad luck. And that, either one of those answers, by the way, are, in my opinion, egregious malpractice because there is so much science, so much published, peer-reviewed evidence on the causes

of cancer. We know what's causing cancer. It's not just one thing. There's a number of things. And I'll get into it because I want to help your audience prevent cancer and heal. if they're dealing with the disease because there's just a lot of things you need to know and do. You know what's crazy, Chris, is so I'm 29 years old. I know three women who are also in their late 20s who have cancer right now.

That's like insane. Yeah. Yeah, the cancer rates are going up. They're going up. More people are being diagnosed every year. That's not good. And so doctors are turning their patients into these powerless victims of disease. Because what they're saying is it's not.

nothing you did. Therefore, there's nothing you can do about it. So no, you don't have to change your diet. No, don't get on the internet. No, you don't need to take any supplements. No, it wasn't stress. None of those things contributed to your cancer. It's either genetic or it's bad luck, period. The only thing you can do to help yourself is show up for treatment. Do you believe that oncologists have a financial incentive to not tell patients the entire truth? Well, it's a little more complicated than that. And I don't want to throw oncologists under the bus because I think there's a lot of good ones and they're people that really mean well, but they're trapped in a system that only gives

them a few minutes per patient per day, right? They're seeing 40, 50, 60 patients a day. They don't have nearly enough time to spend with that person. They barely have enough time to go over the diagnosis and go over the treatment plan and that's it, right? So that's problem number one with the system, not with the doctors. But the system is also oriented to reward doctors for prescribing chemotherapy drugs because oncologists, private practice oncologists make up to two-thirds of their income from the profit

off of chemotherapy drugs. It's the only segment in medicine where doctors make money off the drugs they prescribe. So that is an incentive, right? There is a financial incentive for a doctor to give you. chemo rather than not give you chemo because they make a lot of money on the chemo drugs like up to two-thirds of their income you think about that that's hundreds of thousands of dollars yeah that's huge yeah it's huge so that's what you know what we call a perverse incentive it does not benefit the patient and it puts it puts doctors in a very difficult position because they they need to make

money they want to make money and if you go to the hospital hospitals are even worse than your sort of small cancer clinics. And a lot of the small cancer clinics got gobbled up by large hospital networks. And they'll have policies where if you have any suspicion of cancer, it's like they'll put you on chemo before they even know what type of cancer you have. That is sick. That is disturbing. Yes.

And I'm not making this up. I mean, this happens a lot. It just happened to a friend of mine's dad. Like this happens a lot. They will just, well, just get them on this. get them on these chemo drugs, put them on this combination of drugs. You know, we'll figure out what kind of cancer it is eventually. It's insane.

So, yeah, the system is very, very messed up. It's very corrupt. And it's not the doctors. It is literally the system, the medical system, which is largely controlled by, indirectly controlled by the pharmaceutical industry. Wow. I'm telling you right now, everybody listening to. this podcast knows that's the truth. Yeah. And if you follow the money, you just find all the money is

flowing up to the pharmaceutical industry. That's where it's going. And so doctors are trapped in a system that pays them really well despite the results. Okay. So it doesn't matter if you get well or if you die. They get paid really well. So it doesn't matter. Like, and frankly, the longer you're, the longer you're sick, the more than money they make. So again, perverse incentives, right? And And I talk about this. I've got a book called Chris Beak Cancer. It's my, I've written three books, but my first book tells my story in great detail. But also there's three or four chapters in there, four chapters that really go on a deep dive into the problems with the medical cancer and pharmaceutical industries.

And you just how corrupt they are. But that's just, you know, that's a teaser, what I've just told you. So, and we're rabbit trailing pretty hard because people are like, well, what happened with you? So anyway, I get home from search. I'm getting off the I'm winning myself off the pain medication because I just didn't like being on it didn't I just didn't feel good on it and as I sobered up I realized wow like I've got to start I'm gonna do chemo like this is my future is the chemo patient and we've been conditioned to believe by the way that cancer looks like a bald person right that cancer makes people bald and sickly right that's like when you think what's a cancer patient looks like like you have this image of a chemo patient. It's the chemo that is doing this to people. It's not the cancer. And so not the cancer can't kill you. Of course it can. But I just saw myself becoming this chemo patient. And we've all seen people out there in the world or in our circle of friends and

family that have gone through chemo. And it's the first time you see someone in that state, I mean, you know the feeling, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. You feel like, what can I do to help? You feel helpless. You feel helpless. And also just there's a bit of shock when you see a person that you know or even just a stranger in that physical state. Where they have no hair, they're emaciated, right? Their eyes are sunken in.

Their skin's yellow. Maybe they're, you know, back in the day, if you ever saw somebody wearing a mask in public, it was because they were an advanced chemo patient. Yes. That's the only time you saw someone wearing a mask in public because their immune system was so destroyed. the doctors told them, well, you should wear a mask because you have no immune system. And maybe that can help you, you know, prevent some type of infection. So point is, I saw myself becoming that.

I was like, man, I don't, I don't want to be. That's not what I want to become. Like that's, that's a scary proposition. And, and I think most cancer patients have the same feeling I did, but they're just, they're pressured into it. They're told you have no other options. And if you don't take chemo, you're going to die. This is your only hope, right? Again, harkening back to what I said a minute ago, they're made to believe that they're powerless victims that nothing they did in their life contributed to their disease in any way.

And there's nothing they can do to help themselves except for show up for treatment. So I, my wife and I prayed about it. I was just feeling really uneasy about doing chemo. I didn't have peace about it. I was like, God, if there's another way besides chemotherapy, please show me. I don't know what to do. I need some help. And two days later, I got a book that was sent to me from a friend of my dad.

His friend lived in Alaska. I'm in Tennessee. And I get this book and I start reading it. And it was written by a guy named George Malcolmist who had healed his colon cancer with a raw food diet. That's raw fruits and vegetables and tons of juicing. And I'm reading his story. And it was so compelling. And I was so encouraged and it gave me so much hope.

And I just thought, wait a second. Are you telling me that the body can heal, right? that cancer can be healed, that the body creates it and the body can heal it. And all of a sudden, I just knew that was true. I believed it. And I just knew it was an answer to prayer. I was like, okay, I prayed, this showed up. This is it.

Like, this is what I have to do. And unfortunately, most of the people around me did not agree. Yeah, I was going to say, what was the pushback like from your wife? Was she all in? Or was she like, this is terrible? I'm so upset with you. She was neither of those, but she was cautiously opposing, delicately opposing what I was talking about doing. She did not, she didn't like it.

She'd understand it. She was really worried I was making a huge mistake. And other family members had the same sentiment. And I had phone calls from people who care about me and love me. and they were basically saying, you know, you have to do what the doctor says, you have to do chemo. Like we heard you're thinking about not doing that

or you're thinking about alternative therapies. And you know, I know somebody who tried alternative therapies and they died, you know, that kind of stuff. And I was like, oh man, this is creating a lot of confusion and anxiety and I don't like, I don't know what to do. Everybody around me is like telling me not to do what I feel like I should do. And I feel like God had opened up this door for me.

And by the way, sometimes when you get a word from, from God and he opens a door for you, no one's going to understand. Yeah. Sometimes you have to walk alone. You have to walk alone. And I realize, like, I've got to go alone. Like, now my mom did understand and she was a big supporter. And so I have to give her props because she, it turns out she had been collecting all

these books on natural health and healing. She was a voracious reader, never had health problems. but she just loved health and wellness books, you know, probably like a lot of your audience now. I mean, just really wanted to be healthy, was into healthy stuff. She was kind of a crunchy mama in the 70s, which looked a lot different than today's crunchy mammas. Today's crunchy mamas are like way more hardcore. Oh, yeah.

I think we all know where we were when we heard that the government-funded food pyramid announced lucky charms were healthier than steak. On a scale of zero to 100, 100 being a highly encouraged food, our government gave. lucky charms a 60, and then they gave steak a little above a 30. This clown show combined with our Congress literally declaring pizza a vegetable is really all the proof you need that our food system is entirely corrupt. They want us sick and alive so that we're just patients for life. And just like Big Gov, big food sucks. This is why I prefer to order my meat from good ranchers. Their chickens have no antibiotics or hormones

ever, their seafood is caught, cut, and packaged at sea on the literal boat they're caught on. Their beef is sourced from local ranches and farms throughout the heartland of America, grass-fed, and grain finished. Why does that matter? That means it's supremely healthier, but none of the taste you expect from your meat will be sacrificed. Until the end of January, only a few more days, you can get a year's worth of free chicken with their new year new meat offer when you start your good rancher subscription. That is two extra pounds of pasture-raised chicken breasts added to your Good Ranchers boxes for a whole year.

Go to good ranchers.com slash Clark and use code Clark. That's good ranchers.com slash Clark and use code Clark to get another $20 off when you use my code. Good Ranchers, American meat delivered. I was not eating healthy. I mean, I didn't eat junk food and fast food for, you know, over a decade of my life at least by the time I got cancer. And so, and the fast food industry was so sneaky in the 80s, right? It really blew up in the 80s. In the 70s fast food wasn't that popular, but the 80s, I mean, it was a Taco Bell, KFC, Wendy's, McDonald, Subway, Pizza.

I mean, you know, it was just like every corner, like just more and more fast food chains. We're just popping up everywhere. And microwave food was taking over and all this convenience food. And so our diets really shifted a lot in the 80s. I mean, it was a major shift. And it continued in the 90s, of course, and still. today but anyway so she supported me but everybody else didn't it was really hard and I realized like if I'm going to do this like I'm going to have to do it alone and um that was really scary

but I overnight I bought I went to the grocery store I'm like I'm going raw like tomorrow like or today or whatever like it was immediate what did you buy and so I went to whole foods I loaded up the cart with vegetables. I was like, well, who sells juicers? I bought a juicer. They, Whole Foods used to sell juices, bought a juicer, bought a huge 25 pound bag of carrots and just started. Like I'm just, when you juice these carrots,

make some carrot juice, like make a giant salad, eat raw vegetables. I don't know what I'm doing, but like, I'm just gonna figure this out. And so I quickly did, right? I quickly did figure it out. I was like, okay, I think I can do this. And I was on my way.

but I had this pressure from friends and family to do, uh, to do chemo. And so I reluctantly agreed to go see the oncologist because they're like, just, just hear what he has to say, right? Maybe there's some alternative therapies, you know? Let's just, let's just go talk to him. So we go and the appointment went, went really, really badly.

I mean, it was like, I mean, first of all, if you ever been in a cancer clinic, I mean, it's so depressing. Everybody in there is sick and sad and hopeless. And your way, in the waiting room forever and you're all just sitting there just, you know, being sad, really. And then you finally go back and this guy, you know, he spent a few minutes with me. He flips through my chart. He's like, you've got stage 3C colon cancer.

This is very aggressive in young adults. And you're going to need nine to 12 months of chemotherapy. And the survival, you know, about 60 percent, you have about 60 percent chance of living five years with treatment. And I'm like, man, like 60% chance of living five years. That's pretty low. That's pretty close to 50%. Maybe he's wrong. You know, maybe it's just a coin toss.

And so I wasn't inspired by what he told me. It was not encouraged. Did not give me any hope. And I said, well, what about the raw food diet? And because I've been on it for a week. And I was actually feeling good. And he said, no, you can't do that. It'll fight the chemo.

What? On what basis? Yeah. That's what he said. That's what he said. And I didn't understand it at the time, but now I understand why he said it. There was a belief, and there may still be this belief in some segments of oncology, but there's this belief that, well, first of all, they know that chemotherapy destroys your immune system and then you become vulnerable to infections, right? Bacterial, fungal, viral, all types of pathogenic and parasitic infections, because your immune system's wiped out. And so they don't want you eat any raw. food because they're afraid that the bacteria on an apple, you know, it's going to become a

be a problem for you because your immune system's gone. So they didn't want you to eat raw food. That was a deal. But he didn't explain any of that. I learned that later. The other thing, the other question I asked, and by the way, I only asked him two questions. Like, I didn't come prepared at all. But the other question I asked him was, well, are there any alternative therapies available. And just those two questions was enough to, like, get under his skin and his demeanor changed from, you know, pleasant to sort of like condescending and arrogant. He basically just says, no, if you don't do chemotherapy, you're insane. Do you think that with a lot of these doctors, it's kind of a defense mechanism to talk to patients like that when they suggest alternative

therapies because they're like, how dare you try to act like you know more than I do? Yes. Yeah, they take it. Some doctors, well, and this is how you can tell a good one from a not so good one, is some doctors, when you ask intelligent questions, they appreciate it. They're like, oh, this person has actually done some research. That's a good question. Well, let me explain, right? But other doctors get very irritated because they don't want to spend more than 15 minutes with you. And this means they got to spend more time. Like, oh, I got to explain this now to this person because they don't understand anything. And they think they read some on the internet and they don't. Yeah, so there's definitely that kind of knee-jerk reaction that's very common. And I have a downloadable guide. If anybody in your audience is interested, it's called 20 questions for your oncologist. So if you know someone with cancer, if you're a caregiver, or if you have cancer, go to Chrisbeatcancer.com. There's a link to this on every page of my website.

It's free. But in that guide, I give you the most important questions that you need to ask. Because if you don't ask the right questions, you're not going to get all the information. and you're going to leave there basically intimidated into treatment. But if you ask the right questions, that opens up, you know, you get the truth, right? You get the truth or you get a reaction from your doctor that kind of reveals who they are, right? It reveals whether or not they really care about you or if they're just trying to shuffle you through like, like a herd of cattle, right? Next, next, next.

And that's what these plants are. It's like if you ever worked in a restaurant, you know, just trying to turn over the tables, you know, just get them. Just get a minute out. So make sure you schedule that next appointment before they leave. So that's like book your next haircut. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, so yeah, the appointment just took a turn and he just started using fear.

And basically just said, like, if you don't do chemotherapy, you're going to die. And so, you know, my wife and I left that little room that we were in and we went to the desk and I made an appointment to get a port put in to start chemo in in several weeks. I was so just, I was so hopeless and I felt so helpless and victimized. And I mean, he had successfully coerced me, right, and manipulated me into saying yes to treatment that I didn't want to do. And this happens every day in oncology offices, every single day. Patients are coerced out of fear.

They're told there's nothing they can do. They're made into victims and they're scared into doing a treatment that they don't understand and that could be potentially harmful and not helpful at all, right, and not save their life or just cause them suffering and even in worst cases accelerate their disease. So, I mean, this is the stuff that I talk about all the time as a patient advocate, you know, and trying to help patients make the best decisions for themselves. And so anyway, you know, my wife and I go and we sit in our car and her car and just held hands and just cried. I mean, just choked out a prayer. I mean, I was so down. It was so rough. That day was so

difficult. But I'm also so thankful that I had time. A lot of cancer patients are just rushed into chemo before they can blink. It's like immediate. Like the same day or within a couple days? Within a couple days. Yes. And you were told you had how long to start? Well, I had to recover from the surgeon. So they wanted me, it was, and I don't know the exact, it was like between three and four weeks. I still had. They wanted me to recover from surgery before the chemo would start. So you go home, you go home and you're thinking this over. You're like, now, wait a minute. Were you Googling things? Were you looking at books? Yeah. I went home. I, you know, I knew I had, I had time. And I just, I just did a lot of

praying, a lot of reading, a lot of soul searching. And I just fired up the juicer. I'm like, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. Okay. I'm not like, I didn't give in to hopelessness, but I was just like, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. And I don't know. I don't know what's going to do today, right? Today I'm juicing. Today I'm eating raw food. I'm just going to take care of myself at the best I can today. And I'm not going to worry about tomorrow. Right. And that was really tough. Jesus said, don't worry about tomorrow. But it's pretty tough to not worry about tomorrow when like chemo is coming at you right when something really scary is like coming and so um but yeah i just kept researching and and kept and i found more doctors and survivors and

and google was not helpful by the way i didn't find any help on the internet in 2004 there was no social media yeah i don't know if you even remember this okay can i call you youngster because you're 29 at 45 sure like 2004 the internet was weak yeah there was not there was No Facebook, no YouTube, no Twitter, no Instagram. Like, what do people do on the internet? I don't even know. There was no video. Pretty much sending emails.

Yeah, it was like you could read stuff, but there was no video on the internet in 2004. Like it was, I mean, the clips were like 10 seconds long. Like, it was not like we're doing now. So anyway, but I actually went from book to book to book. You know, you read one book and that turns you on to other books. And so I just kept reading and reading. And that day kept getting closer and closer. And then finally the day came that I was supposed to go get the port put in.

And I was, I just woke up that morning and was like, I'm not doing it. Like, not now. Maybe later. But what I want to do right now is I want to continue to build my body up. I don't want to tear it down. Like, I'm detoxifying. I'm changing my life. I'm overdosing on nutrition.

This is the way I was thinking. And I want to keep doing that. Like, I want to keep changing my life for the better. And I just kind of started. on that journey. And I was like, I don't want to stop. And I was, again, I, so from there, I found a naturopathic doctor. And then from him, he connected me with an integrative oncologist, who was totally supportive of what I did, of what I was doing. And he just, he honored me and my choices. He didn't try to talk me into chemo. He just, I told him what I wanted to do and what I

was doing. And he respected that. And isn't that supposed to be, especially somebody who's facing life and death, shouldn't that be what the doctor-patient relationship is like? Yeah, it should. And the difference between this doctor and just the other doctor, just to compare to, is he was in his 70s. He had spent, you know, his entire life, his entire career, treating cancer patients with conventional methods, surgery, chemo, radiation. And he had seen these treatments fail, the majority of his patients. So he had had. He had. He had, had this time and perspective that the young doctors don't have, right? The young, arrogant doctors don't have it.

And so because he was older, he just knew he's like, hey, I know what's going to happen if you go, if you do standard treatment, right? I know what the end result is going to be. So I'm just so thankful for him. And he was, he's passed away now because he was in his 70s back in 2004, you know. But he was awesome. And he did IV vitamin C. treatments. And the cool thing about him, he retired, and then he came back to practice,

and that's when I found it. He had come back into practice again. And he was incorporating non-toxic and alternative therapies like IV vitamin C. And because he wanted to help his patients get well. And he just knew there's got to be something else out there. He was studying Eastern medicine in his 70s. Like, what an amazing guy. I don't know what it is about women, but every time we go out to eat, we are always discussing the most disgusting, inappropriate things together. At least that's what it's like when my friends and I go out. We were in tears the other night, crying, laughing because they asked me if Garnu's organic

tampons have a paper or plastic applicator, since paper one suck, and it feels like you're in stop and go traffic when you use it. You know, e-e-e-e-like, only women know this. And so we were dying laughing because every woman knows what that's like. and I said, don't worry, they're plastic applicators, but they're BPA-free. And then one of my friends said, you know what's weird is I switched to organic tampons and then my cramps have been so much better ever since. I was like, yes, that's a real thing.

It's all the chemicals on the other big brands that can make your cramps worse. She was shook. And once I told her that Garnu is conservative owned, has cuter packaging, come straight to your door, is 100% organic and fights human trafficking in Nepal with every purchase. She signed up for her subscription right there under the heat lamp on the patio of the Latin American restaurant we were eating at. You can try it too. Go to garnu.com slash spillover and use code spillover to receive 15% off your first month of organic tampons when you subscribe exclusively for spillover listeners. That's GAR and youu.com slash spillover with code spillover for 15% off.

Or just click the link in the description. That's always there for you. What are the survival statistics for cancer patients who choose non-toxic therapies over chemotherapy? I don't know. I don't know. And there's no way to calculate them because no one's done a proper study and there's too many variables. Like, for example, what type of cancer do they have? What stage do they have? Right? What's their age group? Yeah. You know, what are they doing? Like, what exactly are they doing? So like you can't lump all all alternative therapies into one category, right? Because you can have one person like me that's just eating 15 to 20 servings of fruits and vegetables every day doing alternative. And then you can have another person who's drinking their own urine and eating tree bark. That's very true. You know what I mean? So it's hard to standardize, right? In the conventional world, they have a standardized drug protocols that everyone get.

So it's easier for them to measure what's working and what isn't. And in the holistic world, it's wide open, right? You can do anything you want. It doesn't mean it all works and it certainly all doesn't work. But what I found was that the keys to cancer, healing and survival and prevention are really very simple. It's very simple things. One is fruits and vegetables. fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, herbs and spices, legumes, whole grains, food from the earth,

in its whole form, preferably organic, has so many anti-cancer nutrients in it. So many, and not only vitamins, minerals, enzymes, antioxidants, and again, thousands of what are called phyto-nutrients, phytochemicals, anti-cancer compounds. And the most powerful anti-cancer foods are the salad vegetables. Except there's a couple that people don't necessarily put in salads, but the top three are garlic, onions, and leeks. These are the most potent, studied anti-cancer foods. Rounding out the top 10, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, cabbage, salad vegetables, and then also Brussels sprouts, bok choy, those are typically cooked, not in salads. But, and Every vegetable has unique anti-cancer compounds.

Carrots have a compound called falcaranol. And I was drinking 64 ounces of carrot juice every single day. That's half a gallon of carrot juice. So how long did it take you for, how long did it take for you to look at a carrot and say, I never want to look at a carrot again? I mean, I still love carrot juice. I still love it. Okay, so you didn't get tired of it.

Did you turn orange? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yes. And people thought I was getting sicker because. I turned orange and people thought I was jaundiced, you know, which is a sign of this really serious liver problems. And so I was like, no, no, it's just the carrots. It's the carrots. You know, I'm good. I feel great, you know. But yeah, like, it's just like with a baby. If you

feed a baby, if you only feed a baby carrots and sweet potatoes, like for a few days, the baby will turn orange, you know? And what happens is your body just stores excess beta carotene in your skin. So if you consume more than you need, it stores it in your skin for later. And then it'll, use it, you know. So it's not a big deal. You're not hurting yourself. But I went from eating one to two servings of fruits and vegetables every day to eating between 15 and 20 servings of fruits and vegetables every day. I mean, just think about the difference that's going to make in your body if you're eating this incredible volume of fruits and vegetables. So that's huge. So just to give your audience some simple takeaways. Number one, you don't have to eat an all raw food diet and you

You don't have to be a vegan, but if you shift your focus to eating a ton of plant food, eat a plant-based diet, okay? Doesn't have to be perfection, but if you're focused on eating lots of whole plant foods, fruits and vegetables, as much as you want, there's no limit. You're going, you're already starting to go down the right path. The second thing is exercise. Exercise turns off cancer-promoting genes, and it turns on, and it turns on, and it turns on, anti-cancer genes in the body. It improves detoxification. It improves your cardiovascular health.

Exercise is one of the best antidepressants. Like, it's so underrated. And most people just exercise because they want to look good naked. And that's fine. No problem. Want to look good on the beach? Want to look good naked? That's good. But the benefits of exercise are so much bigger and better than just your outward appearance. But Chris, throughout your cancer journey, though, were you able to go like all the way, full speed ahead with your normal exercise routine, or were there days where you were so weak or tired that you were like, I can only barely walk? There were up and down days for sure. And I did a fair amount of fasting. So I did some juice fasting, water fasting. And so when you're doing an aggressive like detoxification protocol that involves fasting, you're going to have low energy. And it's

actually best to not exercise. It's best to rest. So yeah, there were certainly ups and downs. And, you know, people think like the healing journey is not a straight line up, right? It's not like you just get, you feel better and better and better and better and better every day. Like there's days you feel great and there's days you feel bad and then a little better and then worse. And then, you know, it's kind of like the stock market. You know what I mean? There's just ups and downs. But the trend is upward. And so that is definitely how my healing journey was. But generally, I felt really good and had a lot of energy most days. And so how long did you wait until you went back to the hospital to see what was going on.

And then they were like, oh, my gosh, your cancer shrinking. So they took out the primary tumor. And there wasn't another tumor to measure. But what I was told was basically that the recurrence was an absolute certainty. Right. It was like, it's coming back. You're stage three. Like, you've got to do chemo to prevent this recurrence.

So everything I was doing was basically prevention, right? I've got to prevent the cancer. cancer from spreading, from coming back, from metastasizing. And because it will. The thing is, when you have cancer, your body is what they call hospitable to cancer. And that means you have an internal environment where cancer cells can thrive. And so you have to change your internal environment. And you do that through food, through exercise, through your mindset, your attitudes, and through stress, reduction.

which I'd love to touch on because that's huge. And so that was the goal. It was like prevent the recurrence. But I was getting blood work done every month and CT scans every six months. So every time a scan would come back clear, yes, my doctor and I would be ecstatic. I mean, he was more excited than I was, which was awesome. So we just continued down this path of monitoring. And I was just changing my life bit by bit by bit.

And the diet was the easy part. You know, the hard part was changing my mindset, right, and catching myself and choosing to think positively when I was, I had been so prone and programmed to think negatively. I mean, I was a very critical, judgmental, arrogant, prideful, insecure guy. All those things. That was all those things. And I had to just start really working, even though I was a believer in a Christian. Like, you know, I'm not perfect.

I'd still had a lot of mental and emotional baggage and bad habits, right? These like bad mental habits. And so I had to start becoming aware of like how I was thinking and how I was reacting and catching myself in like in the moment and stopping and say, okay, wait a second, I'm being critical right now. Like I'm need to stop. I'm being judgmental. I need to stop.

I'm being envious of this person and I need to stop and say thank you, God, for what I've got instead of being envious of what I don't have. And one thing that cancer taught me was to be happy, how to be happy in the most difficult season of my life. And that was through gratitude, practicing gratitude. And what practicing gratitude looks like is you just stop and go, okay, what's good in my life, right? Because it's easy to focus on what's bad.

So there's always stuff that's not going right. But if you just stop and go, okay, what's good? I had a wife who loved me. We had a baby on the way. I had a house. I had enough money in the bank to pay the next set of bills. I had enough money to buy the food and supplements I wanted to take. I had both parents love me.

I can get out of bed. I can see. I actually have eyesight. I can hear. I can walk and talk. I can feed myself. Right now, there's someone dying in the hospital that would give anything to trade places with you.

like that realization is what what is that's like my gratitude hack anytime i start to get worked up or frustrated or mad about something i just can stop and say right now there's somebody dying in the hospital that you give anything to trade places with you they would love to have your life and your problems it's like oh okay i'm good all good in the hood i think that the faith component with you is so interesting in your cancer journey because, you know, if Christians believe that God knows when we take our first breath and when we're going to take our last breath, why should someone who is a Bible believing Christian even think about chemo or an alternative therapy or medicine? Why wouldn't they just say, God knows if I'm supposed to die, then I'm going to die?

I'm just going to coast through this. Yeah, that's a really good question. And In some ways, I think that's a little bit fatalism. It's a little bit of fatalism where it's kind of like you throw up your hands and say, well, my life's in God's hand. So it's up to him. And you kind of shirk your own responsibilities. And, you know, in James it says faith without works is dead. Okay.

Faith, what's faith? Belief. What are works? Action. Right. So if you believe something is going to help you, you should take some action and do it. And so for me, I would have loved, I know people have been healed miraculously of cancer, just immediately, miraculously.

And it's amazing. Like, I love that. But for me, looking back, that's not what I needed. I didn't need to be healed miraculously. I needed to change my life because the way I was living was killing me. And this applies to a lot of people. Like we are living really unhealthy lifestyles and we don't realize it. We're eating way too much processed food and junk food, which just on a bio-physical,

biochemical level is bad over time. It causes all kinds of problems in your body. Too much sugar, salt and oil, too much animal protein, too much fat, and not enough just simple whole foods from the earth. Well, you talk about in your book about how a lot of people have this mindset that cancer was done to them. And you believe that it's really important and crucial for cancer patients to realize, No, no, no, no, no.

I did play a part in my body becoming vulnerable to cancer. Why do you believe that's so important? You know, I had this realization, which was maybe it's my fault. Maybe it's my fault. And if so, if it's my fault, then that's actually good news. If I caused this, maybe I can fix it, right? If I contribute it to my illness, maybe I can contribute to my wellness. And whether or not I caused it, whether or not you caused it,

whether or not you caused your cancer is really inconsequential because here's the reality. If you have cancer, it's your responsibility now, right? Doesn't matter who caused it, but it's your responsibility to help yourself. And so, again, a big part of my message is just giving patients their power back. Just to help you understand. You're not a victim. You don't have to just sit there and do nothing. There's so much you can do to help yourself survive.

It's evidence-based. Nutrition, exercise, stress reduction, detoxification. These are incredibly powerful things you can do for yourself, even if you do chemo, right? Even if you do everything your doctor says, healing happens at home. And so what you're doing between treatment can make all the difference between survival and death. Really, what you're doing, what you're eating, how you're thinking, your relationships. These are all so important. And doctors are not trained in holistic health.

they're not trained to help a patient understand why they're sick, right? Why are you sick? And so that's a big question. And if you sit quietly and really think about your life, why am I sick? You will start to, the answers will come. And not just with cancer. That's like why am I tired all the time? Why am I, you know, losing my hair?

I don't know. Why am I so achy, all of those different things and kind of getting to the root of those issues? Yeah. But most of us are moving so fast and we're so distracted that we don't sit quietly and really think about our life and our choices and how they're, you know, impacting us. And so like this other big component is stress. You know, stress is, it's a weird nebulous concept that a lot of people don't understand. I mean, people, they know what it feels like to be stressed. Like, oh, I'm really stressed out.

I'm really nervous. I'm anxious or I'm worried or something, right? That's fine. But stress is really, you can describe it this way. Stress is negative thoughts and negative emotions. And those negative thoughts produce negative emotions, which causes a negative physical response in your body. And that is the secretion production of hormones

like adrenaline and cortisol. And these hormones are really helpful in small doses and they're harmful in high doses. And they're harmful if they stay elevated, every day of your life for months, months, months, years, years. And so most of us are in this state of chronic stress. And when you're in stress, right, whether it's, you've got family problems, you got work problems, you got money problems, you've got a lot of anger and bitterness toward people

in your past. You've got a bunch of fears and worries about the future. You're judging others. You're being critical. You're being, you're being envious of people in your presence. And a lot of us were just jumping back and forth between, I'm angry at these people from my past. I'm worried about the stuff in the future. And I'm envious of the people in my present. We're just and so that's all negative, right? Those are all stressful states. And so your cortisol is

elevated and your adrenaline's up. And what those hormones do is they suppress your immune system. So you're immunosuppressed. Those hormones also promote inflammation. They also affect your brain function, how your brain works. So you can't think clearly and rationally when you're under stress. Look at what happened in the world when everybody was so terrified of a germ. People lost their minds. They did the most irrational, illogical things imaginable. It made no sense, right? It makes no sense to see a person riding a bicycle down the street with a mask on. It makes no sense, right? There's no protection, right? It's like you're walking your dog with a mask on. There's no one around you. What do you think you're doing?

I mean, you talk about this also in the book, and it blew my mind because I saw the parallels also between the cancer industry, but also the pandemic. You say that the patient becomes almost like an ATM machine with the doctor extracting as much revenue as they can. Whoa. It's true. The insurance companies and the health, these giant health care conglomerates, they know, right, that as soon as you walk in, they know all the tests to order, all the procedures to order, the scans, the blood work, all that to maximize the amount of money they can extract from you. And the better your insurance, the worse off you will be. because they know if you have really good insurance, they can order all kinds of extra stuff and charge it and get compensated. If you walk in there with no insurance,

the doctors are more likely to tell you the truth about your situation. Yeah, seriously. About your situation. And so, but I don't want to get off this stress thing before I close the loop on this because here's the thing.

I had to do this in my own life. I had to catch myself thinking negatively. and stop thinking that way. And this was every single day I had to retrain my brain. And I still have to, right? I still have to work on it. I had to give my fears and worries to God because fear is not from God.

Fear is a misuse of the imagination. Right? That's what fear and worry is. And that is not my original quote. But it's true. And all that fear does is it robs you of your joy. And we saw so much fear in the world in the last two years, right?

And so many people that were just in such a state of anxiety and fear and despair, right, over something that might happen. And I even posted on Facebook, like early in the pandemic, I posted, now the world knows how cancer patients feel to be afraid every day. Because when you have cancer, the fear is real and it's every day. And you have to figure out how to live with it and how to deal with it every day. And so what I had to do is I just had to stop in the middle of those, moments of, you know, it's like terror where you just get these anxiety attacks.

And I just had to stop and say, God, I trust you. I'm giving you my fear. Right. You're in control. I trust you to show me what I need to do. Show me what I need to change in my life. And I'm just going to do the best I can. I want to trust you with the rest.

And so that was just over. It wasn't just like a one time little prayer. You know, this was every day over and over. It was just that it was a practice of laying down my fears. And then the other big thing. this is probably the biggest thing, the most important thing that I can share with your audience is the power of forgiveness. Because if you're holding onto anger and bitterness and resentment toward people who have hurt you,

and there are definitely people who've hurt you in your past, we all have people who've hurt us. When you hold on to that anger and what you're doing is you're keeping yourself in a prison of pain, right? The pain is over. It's gone. Right. But if you hold on to the anger, you're trapping yourself in a prison of pain. And the longer you hold that anger, the more damage it does to you. There's an old expression like unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping it hurts someone else. Right. We think about it. It's bitterness. Right. Bitterness like the, and the longer you hold it, the more bitter you become, right? You become and you probably met, I don't know, you've probably met people who are very old and very bitter, right? Oh, of course.

Yeah, you show me a person like that and I'll show you a person who has some serious, unresolved conflict in their life, right? There are people they have not forgiven and they have let that make them into harden their heart and make them into a more angry and bitter person over time. And so like you have to recognize, okay, this is hurting me. And the solution is forgiveness. Forgiveness is the key that unlocks the door that lets you out of the prison of Like that's the way you get out and it doesn't mean what they did is okay.

It doesn't validate them hurting you in any way. But what forgiveness is is you're saying, okay, God, I trust you. I'm going to let them go and I'm not trust you to deal with them, right? I'm releasing my need for justice. And I'm just, they're all yours, right? That is the forgiveness prayer. When you're angry or bitter or whatever, when you're in stress, you're going to find a way to self-medicate.

right you're going to self-medicate if you're in pain right not just physical pain but like emotional pain and how do we self-medicate food cigarettes alcohol drugs the legal kind the illegal kind gambling pornography spending more money than you have uh binge watching media right social media addiction like all these things that we do to self-medicate and distract ourselves from our pain and our problems are pretty much unhealthy. Okay. The only thing that people do, you know, generally that's healthy is sometimes they exercise, you know, and they could even get caught up and over exercising.

But the point is most of that's very destructive. So you end up in this vicious cycle, right, where you're angry and you're bitter and you're self-medicating and the things that you're doing to self-medicate for your anger and bitterness are making your health worse over time. So you have to break that vicious cycle and it's like you start spinning it the other way. right? So the vicious cycle, your health is spiraling downward. And the virtuous cycle, things spiral up, right? They get better. And when you start changing your daily routine, you start this virtuous cycle where you're overdosing on nutrition, you're thinking positively

instead of negatively, you're forgiving people who've hurt you, you're exercising. So like, everything I'm saying are things that I did, that I learned how to do and that I help people do. When it comes to beauty or skin care products, I just want what's going to work. It's a very simple ask. My skin has always been as high maintenance as I am, extremely dry and temperamental. Red in areas, discoloration issues. And a couple years ago, Nimi's skincare reached out to me and said, hey, we're the first openly conservative skincare company and we'd love to send you some products to try out.

I said, sure, because I'm never going to say no to a free gift. I mean, would you? I figure that, hey, you know what? my skin is so hard to deal with. Probably not going to do anything for my dry skin. You know, maybe it'll even make things worse, just based on experiences I've had in the past with brands. But, oh my gosh, I was so happy to be wrong. I was surprised from the moment I opened that first jar of hydrating moisturizer. I immediately noticed a true difference with Mimi's skincare. My skin felt hydrated and it was long lasting. My skin didn't just

drink up everything right away, leaving me feeling tight and dry. the rest of the day. Like, I live in Arizona in the desert, but I don't want my skin to be in Arizona desert, you feel? My redness was toned down and my skin looked brighter and smoother in texture. The cherry on top is that NeNeNe' skincare shares all of my same values as a Christian conservative woman. I'm guessing yours too, because they believe in faith, femininity, freedom, and family values. They're a beauty brand that's never going to go woke and they're made in the USA. Try Neimi's skincare and get 10% off by using code. Alex Clark. That's Nemeyskinkare.com, N-I-M-I-Skincare.com with code Alex Clark or just click the link in the

description. So you beat cancer by completely changing your diet, right? But is it your opinion that everyone diagnosed with cancer can actually beat it, that they don't have to do chemo? Or do you think that there are some people who absolutely need chemo in order to live a longer life? Well, in some cases, chemo could be helpful. You know, there's a lot of different types of cancer. And so some easy examples. Childhood leukemia, testicular cancer, and lymphomas all respond really well to chemotherapy. And the survival of childhood cancer and testicular cancer with after chemotherapy is over

90 percent that, you know, live 10 years or more. So that's great, okay? The drugs are horrible and the side effects are horrific, but they are effective. So okay, we can give the industry credit for that, but for solid tumor cancers, breast cancer, colon, liver, lung, ovarian, cervical, brain, bone cancer, there's dozens and dozens of other types of cancer that don't really respond very well to chemo. when I say respond, that's a tricky word. Chemo's not curing them.

That's what I'm saying. So what does that mean? The disease just lays dormant in their body? Well, chemo is a double-edged sword. It's a paradox. Okay, there's a paradox of chemo, which is, yes, chemotherapy drugs kill rapidly dividing cells in your body, and that includes some cancer cells. And that's why when a patient does chemo, they see tumors shrink, you know, or spots or lesions

go away. And everybody's excited and that's great. But the double-edged sword part is that these drugs also cause damage head to toe. So they cause brain damage, liver damage, lung damage, hearing loss, loss of feeling in your fingers and toes, which can be permanent. They wreck your digestive track.

And most importantly, they decimate your immune system. And in many cases, make cancer cells more aggressive. So what we see happen over and over and over with chemo is that patients after some time, months, maybe a year after they finish their first round of chemo, they have a recurrence. They go back for a scan and there's new cancer and new parts of their body. And it's in their lungs and their liver and their bones. And that's because chemo wiped out their immune system and made the cancer stem cells more aggressive. And so the cancer stem cells started multiplying again when the chemo stopped,

but their immune system was wrecked, was wiped out. Your immune cells are your army. I mean, they're designed to fight off viruses, bacteria, pathogens, and cancer cells. Like you have natural killer cells. That's their job to kill cancer cells. So when those are wiped out, you're in a very precarious position. And so, yeah, this is why. a patient has to ask the right questions.

Like, you have to, will this treatment cure my cancer? Hey, that seems like a pretty important question. And patients don't even ask a lot of them. See, you talk about the distinguishes and how oncologists a lot of times, they'll twist their language and it almost gives patients false hope or like they're not telling the whole truth. This blew my mind. Could you walk us through that?

Yeah, the conversations in the oncology office are typically like, well, you know you have this type of cancer and these are the drugs we're going to give you and you know this combination of drugs has been shown to be very effective for your your type of cancer and your type of cancer response very well to this drug treatment so what i just said sounded like really good right very effective and it responds really well but when a doctor says effective what they mean is that there's some tumor shrinkage right doesn't mean cure it means there's there's a temporary tumor shrinkage that is probable, right, for some period of time, but it does not mean cure. But the patient thinks cure. They're hearing, oh, affected. This is,

my doctor said this treatment's very effective, right? They go home and tell their friends and family. Oh, this is, this, this drug therapy response, my cancer responds very well to this type of drug therapy. My doctor told me. So they're thinking cure, but that's not what the doctor is thinking. And the doctors are very uncomfortable. I mean, there have there have been studies on doctors on oncologists and how they talk to cancer patients and how they miscommunicate to cancer patients. And it's mainly because they're not comfortable telling this, this sort of naked truth, which is like, this won't cure you. Right. Right. This will not cure your cancer. It may slow it down and you're going to suffer and you're going to be very sick and miserable. That's the,

truth and we don't know how long you're going to live we don't know if the cancer is going to come back and how aggressive it'll be when it comes back like there's a lot of there's a lot that can happen the patients are told very little so yeah they use and the other problem is the drug companies feed the doctors statistics and misleading information about the drugs that the doctors repeat to the patients so i mean and this isn't just cancer this is all the drugs right drug companies fund their own studies they create marketing materials that they give to their drug sales people that's drug reps these are salespeople who go to the doctor's office and pitch the doctors a sales pitch on a new drug and they use the uh the study the science that the drug company funded and

produce to make the drug look like it works really well and they convince the doctors to prescribe the drugs with this science that they funded and massaged and manipulated. And that's how drugs get prescribed. That's how they get FDA approval with, you know, shady science. And that's how they're passed down to doctors. And doctors believe things are changing. I think one of the silver linings of the last two years is a lot of doctors are waking up and they have probably the lowest confidence in the pharmaceutical industry in many,

many decades. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing news. honestly. And what you're describing is exactly what happened with Purdue Pharma and the opioid epidemic. Yes. That's exactly what we have with Purdue. I mean, this has happened over and over and over with lots of drugs. If you look up Vioxx, if you look up Bextra. I mean, there's so many drugs that have been recalled from the market that were, that should have never been brought to the market, but they got FDA approval because the drug companies lied about the drugs, about their efficacy and about their safety, right? Safe and effective, right? Those are the two big,

buzzwords that every drug needs to be to get approval. And so there are brilliant minds, scientists and researchers and executives that all get together to make drugs look as safe and effective as possible. Because here's the reality. If they get a drug approved, there's billions and billions of dollars of profit. Just, I mean, it's almost immediate. If they can get a drug approved to market, billions of dollars are coming in. And the longer they can keep it on the market, the more money they make. And eventually, if the drug is a shoddy drug, if it turns out through independent studies, because those independent studies on the drugs come years later, right, the drug company's studies get it approved. And then independent

doctors and scientists will study it eventually as they give it to patients. But as those studies come out and show that the drug doesn't work any better or that it's worse or that the side effects are, you know, life-threatening or not nearly, nearly as, it's not really as safe as the drug company said. Then the drug gets recalled, but it's too late because tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people have been harmed, maybe millions, depending on the drug. And the drug company gets slapped with a fine. And one of the biggest fines ever paid, Pfizer and Merck have paid the two biggest fines in history, billions of dollars in fines. And guess what? The fines they paid were a fraction of the profit they made.

Yep. It's like, oh, we made $15 billion and we paid a $2 billion fine. It's like worth it to them. Oh, totally worth it. If you could do something illegal and make a ton of money and then you just paid a fine and pay back a little bit of it. So this is their playbook. And it is really, really horrific. it's corrupt to the core.

And if you understand that the drug companies, they're funding political campaigns on both sides, right? They're giving money to politicians. They're lobbying politicians constantly. They have huge lobbying armies. They are funding med school research. They are funding like universities, med school universities. They're running ads on television nonstop.

They're funding the media companies. So they're some of the biggest advertisers for like, you know, the today show and the nightly news and stuff like that. So, I mean, they've just completely infiltrated. The tentacles are everywhere. They have such massive control and influence over like every, all aspects of our life. Like, if you think about it, it's, and so I'm not trying to be, you know, too crazy down a conspiracy rabbit hole, but it's not a conspiracy. I mean, they just, this is, this is how they operate. It's, it's in plain sight. Yes. It's out in the open.

We've just seen it so much we've become numb to it, right? I mean, how many drug commercials have you seen, right? It's like you can't even, it's every other commercial on television. Oh, yeah. You don't have to worry about any of that, like being too, like conspiracy to me and my listeners because we're all like, we're on it. We know. I mean, yeah, it's so obvious.

They operate in plain sight. And I think that's what they get off on, honestly. Is they're just like, look what we can get away with. And everybody knows. And they can't stop us. Right. And it's high fives for all the executives and huge. mega million dollar bonuses. And it is a conspiracy of greed, right? I will say that.

Yes. With absolute certainty, I mean, greed is the driver. Money is the driver of, you know, of all of these drug problems. And so whether it's cancer or it's, you know, heart disease or diabetes or high blood pressure, it doesn't matter what the drug is for. It's the same playbook. And so for your audience, just to be aware of that, I think we just have to be really, really, you need a high degree of skepticism from of any drug, any pharmaceutical, because if you actually read the disclosures that come with a drug, by the way, that one drug that was rolled out a couple years ago, you know, they gave that drug to millions of people and there was no disclosure, right? There was no safety insert with that drug. It was blank. And so, which is so

incredibly egregious. It's inhumane. It was inhumane for sure, but everybody just seemed to, was so desperate and was so coerced into thinking they needed it that they just completely abdicated their own personal, like, agency and just give it to me. I don't care what the side effects are. But most normal drugs, they have to have this material data safety insert, and you can read the side effects. I mean, it's just heart disease, lung disease, cancers. I mean, just watch the drug commercials. At the, And there's so many drug commercials where they say may increase the risk of certain types of cancer. Yes.

I was going to ask you about that. You know, is the answer to almost all health issues to just get off as many medications as possible? Well, that's an answer for a doctor. But I can say as a patient advocate, there are very few drugs out there that actually cure disease. Very, very few. Most drugs are for management of crime. disease, right? And so patients are led to believe, whether you have high blood pressure or high blood sugar or whatever, our heart disease, they're told this is not curable. But we have a drug that can

help you feel a little better. And what the pharmaceutical industry thrives on is it thrives on vertical illness. Do you understand what that means? Yeah, you just, there's no changes. You just stay sick forever, but it's manageable. Yeah. It means, you can get out of bed. So you're vertically ill. If you're horizontal, right? That's not good. But if you can get out of bed, then you can function and you will become a lifetime customer, right? That's the goal. Lifetime customers of X, Y, and C drug. And all of these drugs may, they may give you a benefit. You may feel better in the short term, but in the long term, they will cause other problems in your body and you're going to need more drugs, right? You're going to

another medication for the side effects of the first one and then you need a medication for the side effects of the second one and the third one combined and pretty soon i mean you know there are people taking six eight nine 10 11 12 drugs a day yeah so it is a sophisticated racket and the here's the good news the good news is that most chronic disease and many types of cancer I've seen almost every type of cancer and every type of stage, every stage of cancer healed. I've interviewed dozens and dozens and dozens of people who healed all types and stages of cancer. They're on my podcast, Chris Beat Cancer on my YouTube channel on my website. So you can go watch.

Put in pancreatic cancer, put in breast cancer, put in colon cancer, put in lymphoma, put in leukemia in the search bar. And you will find interviews with real people, just regular old people that got cancer, that changed their life, that did almost all the same things I did and got well. So there's a lot of hope in that. Some people would just say, oh, that's just anecdotes. But look, sometimes it just takes one person to change your life, you know. And most of the decisions we make, we don't make because there's a randomized double-blind placebo controlled trial informing us, right?

We make it because we see someone do something that we think, you know what, that could help me. Maybe I should do that, right? like maybe I should start brushing my teeth. Maybe I'd have better breath, you know? Maybe I should exercise. Maybe I'd look a little bit better on the beach. Like, oh, that person ate a ton of fruits and vegetables and they lost weight and their blood sugar improved and their cholesterol went down. And they're, you know, they reverse their type 2 diabetes or they're healed their cancer.

Like, yeah, maybe I should do that. Like they're a human. I'm a human. We have the same physiology. So like it doesn't take a whole lot of logic and common sense to just look and look at the common threads. If you watch a bunch of survivor interviews that I've done or just search for cancer survivors and watch their stories and testimonials, you see the common threads, right? They're all there and you just observe like, yeah, all these people are kind of doing the same thing and they're

getting the same result. And so the good news is chronic diseases, most of them can be healed, but you have to be willing to change your life. If you want to stay a victim and if you don't want to change, then it's very unlikely you will get better. It's very unlikely. You will get better. It's very unlikely the medical profession will fix you, that a drug will fix you. But you can fix you. You can fix you if you decide to do it. And what I'd like to say all the time is like, no one will take better care of you than you if you decide to do it. So let's just say somebody listening, they just, literally just finished chemotherapy or a loved one just finished chemotherapy. And now they're hearing you talk about this. And they're like, oh, my gosh,

should I just make a massive mistake? Or, you know, I thought I was cured and it's all over. What would your advice be to them? Yeah, I would say, look, don't freak out. Don't panic. It's okay. Like, you did the best you could at the time, you know, probably weren't given all the information that you should have had to make a good decision. But it's okay. What matters right now is that you take action to change your life, right? All the same. You can still do. all the same things that those of us who have healed naturally did, right? Even after you've had chemo, even during chemo. You can still exercise.

You can still eat fruits and vegetables. You can still forgive people who've hurt you, right? And so these are all do no harm therapies with no risk, right? There is no risk to changing your life for the better. So like we love and accept and embrace everybody going through cancer, whether they're doing chemo or not. It doesn't matter. Like I have a private support community in a program called Square One where we just encourage

people and just help get them on the healthy path and make these, you know, radical changes to their life. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm not here to make anybody feel bad about their choices or to put fear on anyone, although I know it's kind of scary topics. And when I'm talking about the reality of cancer and cancer treatments, yeah, it is kind of scary. But in a way, like, you need that knowledge to be empowered. Like, you need to know the truth.

even if it's a little scary, even if it hurts, like you need to know it because that makes you wiser and you can make a better decision for yourself and then, you know, kind of get on the healthy path. If you have somebody that is going through cancer and they're in the middle of making that decision on if they're going to pursue chemotherapy or not, is there a better way to approach somebody and try to get them to consider alternative therapies? It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. I'm glad you asked that question because I know a lot of people are thinking about this and this is on their mind and there's someone that they care about right in their life or whatever. Okay. First I'm going to say something that's going to sound really pessimistic and then I'm going to follow it up with something hopeful.

The pessimistic, the pessimistic answer is that and this is from from my own experience over 19 years is that sometimes the people that you want to help the most, you cannot help. Full stop. Right. Sometimes you just can't help them. And it's usually the people closest to you, right? For whatever reason, they're just not open to hearing it from you. Or me. I'm not saying you person.

I'm just saying, you know, the general you. Okay. But having said that, you should still try. And the trying looks like this. Like, hey, do you know about Krispeak cancer? Have you heard of this guy? You know, he's got a book. You should read his book.

amazing you mean you know if you've read it and you think it's great and you think it's amazing like then just gush about it right or hey he's interviewed like a ton of people who've healed cancer all types and stages on his website like you know i don't know what you're thinking about doing or whatever but i've thought of you and i thought this maybe give you a lot of hope and encouragement and like inspiration i mean that's why i do what i do i mean that's it to give people that tiny spark of hope and it's not just this false hope it's it's a very specific civic hope and that is the book that this hope that inspires a belief and the belief is that you can heal right you have to believe that healing is possible this is what I'm trying to do for your audience

for everyone I speak to you I'm trying to just help get them to that tiny little seed of belief that healing is possible because once you realize that healing is possible that sort of unlocks this potential right you're like wait a second maybe I can get well if I can heal if this is possible like I need to learn more right and then I need to do something right I don't need to just sit here in the lazy boy right eating ice cream and waiting from my next doctor's appointment like I need to go for a walk you know I need to get I need to get out in the sunshine I need to go eat some vegetables right like these are the thoughts that start happening in that person's mind so I just I just encourage like just send folks to crispycancer.com.

There's a video, the first video on my website is called What Every Cancer Patient Needs to Know and it's 11 minutes long. It's an easy, you know, it's 11 minutes. And I kind of just lay it out like in a way that, I've gotten so much feedback over the years about the video. People just love it. It's just me laying it out in a way that gives people hope

and hopefully the light bulb goes off and they realize they can take control of their life and their health and their choices matter and they can influence their future and their survival. So that's like the gateway drug, I think, to my world is that 11-minute video. And then hopefully they'll read my book, or maybe they'll join our private community, our square one community, or they'll just start watching all those interviews and like just really digging in and changing their life.

Like, I just get so excited when I see people doing that. You know, it's like, this is why I do what I do. Chris B-cancer.com. Chris, your story is so inspiring and just incredible wisdom and knowledge shared with us today. And I also just want to commend you and tell you, like, I think you have done such a cool thing with God gave you this set of circumstances. And then now you've turned this whole thing into a ministry. Like, yes, you're helping people beat cancer and you're giving them health tips and how to live

healthy and all that. But it's a ministry, which is just absolutely incredible. So thank you so much for coming on the spillover today. Thank you, Alex. This was really fun, and I just appreciate you so much. And thank you for the opportunity to talk to your audience and share my story. It really means a lot. And yeah. Really appreciated and enjoyed that he seemed to have a holistic health approach focusing on mind, body, and soul. I know some of the criticisms of his story are that, you know, well, you had surgery first, and then you made changes to your diet. Would changing his diet alone have healed his cancer without the surgery? That's something we'll never know.

I also found his comments about how only certain types of cancer should be treated with chemo to be really unique. And I don't know if that's a rare take or not because I've never spent a significant amount of time speaking to people who dealt with this. I remember in his book he said that since chemotherapy was introduced in the 1950s, the cancer death rate has tripled. That is a mind-boggling statistic. I definitely want to say that having a loved one with cancer or having it yourself is not something I can personally relate to. So I truly enjoyed his story as someone who's very ignorant on the topic as a whole myself. I hope that those of you who do have personal ties to cancer will message me. Tell me what you thought of his advice.

I thought that his take on forgiveness in particular was a real. really good reminder for all of us, cancer or not, that carrying around that emotional weight isn't healthy. And I am not a forgiver. I haven't forgiven anyone in, well, ever, I don't think, never in my life. Chris's anecdote about holding a lifelong grudge about something that happened on the playground is literally me. So I felt pretty convicted by that part of the conversation. And I know God is probably not very happy with me about the way I handle her in my life. So, who, how's that for sharing? By the way, I mentioned that I learned about Chris through Ali's Stucky, and I have a great episode with Allie from season two of the spillover. It's episode one,

where we discuss her birth stories with both of her kids and the dark side of the birthing industry in hospitals, speaking of the corruptness in the medical industry that Chris and I covered today. This episode with Chris is my last for our health and wellness be month on the spillover. I feel like it was a huge success. The feedback from you guys at least made it seem that way, so maybe we could make this an annual event every January, typically on this podcast. I do interview a different person every week that is a shocking life story or expertise on any given topic. It could be true crime-related, political, relationship-centered, anything. Next week, we'll be back to our normal routine.

And I'm going to introduce you to someone that has been all over the news recently. She's the same age as me. She went to one of the most liberal colleges in America was completely brainwashed on leftist ideologies and even worked for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Now she's a conservative. She'll share her journey of how she got to where she is now. And also what I was really looking forward to on this interview was talking to her about what it was like working for Hillary's campaign on election night in 2016.

It'll have you on the edge of your seat. Make sure you're subscribed to The Spillover so you don't miss that episode. That comes out next Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific and midnight eastern anywhere you get your podcasts. Get more content by subscribing to Pop Politics on YouTube. I'm Alex Clark and this is The Spillover. Love you, Mean It, bye.