Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “I Had To Be Deprogrammed After College Brainwashed Me.” - A True Story With Annabella Rockwell

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Annabella Rockwell reveals the pervasive brainwashing of students on college campuses across America. Non-binary individuals, the race repentance of white people and widespread use of pronouns didn’t just become trends thanks to TikTok. These factors of society were normalized on elite college campuses by the 2010s. Today's guest is proof of that. She walked into college apathetic about politics and left as a full blown left-wing activist who went on to work on Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign...

One of my forever favorite moments in political and really pop culture history will be the infamous night of the 2016 election when the mainstream media and the left collectively realized that Donald Trump had won. If people weren't screaming, crying, or having meltdowns, then they were in some state of shock and disbelief. It wasn't that they genuinely thought, oh, Hillary Clinton was an amazing candidate. They just thought Trump running in the first place was more of a practical joke. Have you ever wondered what it was like that night for one of Hillary's campaign staffers? What about a campaign staffer who was a young 20-something-year-old woman who had just graduated from one of the top liberal universities in the country after being fully indoctrinated into leftist groupthink? The story of today's guest reveals the pervasive brainwashing of students on college campuses across America.

What a lot of conservatives don't realize is that this isn't something that just started, happening. Being non-binary, white people apologizing for their race, the use of pronouns that didn't just become trends thanks to TikTok. This has been going on since the 2010s. Today's guest walked into college apathetic about politics. She left as a full-blown left-wing activist. She was so motivated to usher in socialism and depressed about the impending doom of climate change and women being an alleged second-class citizen in this country that she ended up with a job. working on Hillary's 2016 campaign. The plot twist is she's now a hard, right-wing conservative who works for Prager You.

How the heck did that happen? It's not so simple story that she'll explain, but here's the summary. She had to be completely deprogrammed from the brainwashing to see the truth. She's been written about by the New York Post, the Daily Mail, and even been on Tucker Carlson tonight. Now she's here to warn us that all of the cultural, rot we see today starts far in advance on college campuses, which is why she believes they should be avoided altogether. Annabella Rockwell on the spillover. Annabella, I heard about you first because I see you on Tucker and then I start getting all of these messages from

conservative like, oh my gosh, Alex, you got to have this girl on the spillover. This is the most insane thing. She end up getting indoctrinated in college, became a full-blown leftist work for Hillary Clinton, and then our mom centered to a D programmer. So then we reach out to you, find out, well, that's part of the story. A lot of it is true, but some of it isn't. So I just want to start at the top of this. Basically, who you are, where you grew up, the type of political beliefs that your family had and all of that.

Sure. Well, first, thank you so much for having me. And thanks to all the cute servitives for sending me your way. Yeah, they really made this happen. You're one of those people that, you know, was recommended as a guest. And I'm like, this is actually a good one. So from the beginning, I am from New York City originally. I am an only child.

My parents got divorced when I was really young. However, my dad was always in the picture. I grew up with my mom very close with her, very close with my grandmother and her whole side of the family. They definitely played a big role in raising me. Fast forward. I kind of lived all over. We lived in the Bahamas for middle school, which is fun.

And it just happened to be because my mom's father at the time was living there. he liked to play a lot of tennis and just, you know, was into the island life. So I lived there for a bit. I then went to boarding school in Virginia. I was a girl school, the same one my mom went to. From there, ended up transferring back to a school in Florida, graduated from a school in Florida called St. Andrews in 2011. And that's a prep school in Boca.

So from there, I went to Mount Holyoke, which is kind of where this whole story begins. And if you need, do you need more information on my background? Oh, I mean, whatever you want to share, really. This is very relevant. I wasn't a figure skater. So I was a competitive athlete. It was very dedicated to that. You know, I grew up going to an Episcopalian church with my family on the weekends.

I was in the choir. I was an accolade. Just kind of that sort of structure. Like, I can't say I was very, very spiritual, but I had that consistency of at least showing up for something every Sunday. As far as my household, I'd say that it was conservative in the sense that, like, we, you know, prioritize family and spending time together and we did prioritize education. I always went to really good schools. That was one thing my mom was determined about was like no matter the circumstances.

She was going to make sure that I went to, like, a small private school where I could get a lot of attention and get all the resources that I could ever want. Politically, we love this country. We had a lot of pride. I'm descended from someone that came over on the Mayflower, Stephen Hopkins. So I was kind of raised with this like, we love our country. We've been here, you know, very pro-America, which I guess is considered conservative now, even though then it was just sort of normal.

You know, I was in New York City during 9-11. So I've always, yeah, I was in class. I remember that. And that is a very formative moment of just love of the city, love of your neighbors, love of this country. like it was really embedded in me. And I think being in New York, it was such a melting pot that, you know, I never, you're exposed to so many cultures that I just always had such an appreciation, I think, for being, for being an American. And then I also, of course, like I lived abroad for a while. We lived in the Bahamas. So that's kind of my upbringing, very family-oriented, very structured,

very loving. So you didn't grow up with leftist parents. I mean, they were pretty, it sounds like, average, you know, maybe middle to right leaning? I'd say middle to right leaning. Really open-minded and normal, though, very like, you know, love everyone. We're not, we're not going to judge and we're going to travel. I've been all over the world. So I've been exposed to a lot of, you know, different countries and different ways to run your country. And I think we always just had pride in America. And so I guess, you know, a little bit more conservative. And again, you know, growing up going to church, but they weren't super left or right either way. So were you interested personally in politics at all before heading into college? No, I was always interested in, like, student

government and, like, being class president. Like, I like that, but that's kind of more I see it as, like, public service than politics. Like, I just always wanted to be involved in everything. So then you decide, you pick a college and you're graduating high school in 2011. Yeah. Okay, so you and I are the exact same age. Okay. So then you decide to go to school. What school did you choose and why? I went to Mount Holyo College in western Massachusetts. It's the oldest women's college in the country. It was the first of the seven sisters. So the seven sisters were the sister schools to the ivies when the Ivy League's were men's colleges. So academically, they're on par. But because they're not co-ed, they're like a little bit easier to get into.

Well, I'm hearing like, okay, so for me, I didn't end up going to college, but I know me. And if I would have gone that route, I would have been like, well, I don't want to go to an all-women school because I want to be around guys, I want to date. And so that didn't deter you. You weren't worried about that? So it's funny is that I knew I needed to go somewhere that was really academic because I would never have a problem finding the social scene. I'd have a problem finding the classroom. And I knew that anyone that was going to Mount Holyoke like you're a little bit more academically driven. So I was fine. And it's also, it's part of the five colleges. So Amherst was right there. UMass was right there. Smith, which is another women's college, was there and also

Hampshire. So it, there, there was a lot available. It wasn't just like you're isolated in this little women's college. And also like, you know, you have friends from other schools come visit or you can leave campus. It wasn't like, it was very free. You know, there were, there were men around the campus. So you get to college and then immediately what was the biggest culture shock for you? So coming from Florida, I think this is so funny. I arrived with 12 pairs of white jeans. And everyone else was very, like, plaid. Yeah, earth-tones. Earth-tones, very grungy granola.

You know, I talk about the moho chop, the haircut, that the first years it was kind of this, like, funny ritual where people would shave their head because they're now, like, at school. And so that was different. Like, there were so many very gender-neutral students walking around, and that was not. That was definitely culture shock. But I didn't really care. I was kind of like, oh, this is so fun and new and exciting. Like, this is college. Like, wow, everyone's just sort of shedding whoever they were as a teenager and trying new things.

Looking back, what do you think were some of the first encounters you had with, like, leftist thought, progressivism? Because at that time, I feel like the trans agenda wasn't as prevalent as it is now. But had that narrative already started to pop up on your college campus? It did actually. So I was on the ice hockey team while I was at Mount Holyoke. Because as I'd said, I'd figure-skated, and I'd always wanted to join hockey. So we had a club team. We didn't have a varsity team.

And our goalie actually was a transgender man. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And that's 2011. So there were quite a few transgender students. And also while I was there, we were the first school to change, we were the first women's college to change our admissions policy that you just had to be like a woman upon admittance.

So that's kind of up for interpretation. You didn't have to be a biological female. So then what, I mean, the other girls playing on this hockey team, knowing that you have a transgender goalie, did that bother anybody? It was just like, this is just it, this is life. It was really, I learned a lot. It was really interesting because I learned about dead naming. And, you know, kind of that the woman she had been, like, no longer exists, like she legally had her name changed. So I was just exposed to all these new types of.

I don't know, living, I guess. And it was very like, I remember being made to be sensitive about how you address people. You know, right when we arrived during orientation, every single first year student, that's another thing we were called first years instead of freshmen. Because it had the word man in it. Yeah. Oh, boy. So a lot of like just normal language is challenged from the very beginning. And I didn't think anything of it. Now, obviously, I realize, okay, that's very. early 1984, like, why are we trying to change our dialogue? Like, it's very strange. Well, I think this is what's going to shock people is that I think a lot of people think, oh, this trans stuff, the non-binary things, pronouns, all that stuff didn't pop up until like two years ago. You're saying this started popping up on college campuses as early as 2011. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so besides all of that kind of stuff with the gender stuff,

What other type of leftist ideas were you exposed to? You know, we had dining halls. We had a vegetarian and vegan option because we were very climate focused. That was a big conversation. You know, the way that you disposed of all your food had to be very climate-friendly. You had a place to put certain things and put certain dishes here. Like, don't use a tray because that's just excess water being wasted to wash the tray. So it was kind of like hyper-awareness of all the issues all the time.

time. It was gender. It was sexuality. I mean, I was taught very early on that, like, you know, as I arrived, sexuality is fluid. Like, obviously, there were a lot of lesbians on campus, and we had this term. It's called lesbian until graduation. So it's sort of funny. Like, of course, there were a lot of students that arrived and they were gay, and that makes sense. It's a women's college. But there were a lot of students that were like, okay, I'm just going to try this for four years because, like, it's what people do. And I don't think any of my friends had that. same experience, like at their schools that they went to? Because coming from Florida, a lot of people went to Southern schools, and it just wasn't, that wasn't really a thing yet where I think it is now.

You're seeing it with Gen Z. Like, they're much more sexually fluid and say it's a spectrum and whatever. So when you came home, like on, you know, Christmas break or whatever summer break to go spend time with your parents, were you telling them about what you were experience on campus? Or were you like, I'm going to separate these worlds and they didn't really have an idea of what was going on? I started to live a double life. I felt like I was kind of one person when I would come home and then one person when I was at school. And I told my parents a little bit about it or my mom, mainly because my dad was living in New York at this time. So I'd go home and I'd visit my mom in Florida. And I'd tell her some things I thought it was kind of funny. I still, though, my first two years,

I had an anchor to like my life prior to college because I was dating someone. It was long distance. So I would leave campus sometimes and go see him. And we had friends and common that were from growing up. So we, I had a lot still anchoring me to sort of like my upbringing, if that makes sense. So I would like tell my parents some stories about kind of how like ridiculous things were, but I didn't, I didn't talk about it that much. I also, you know, wanted to be kind to everyone and not sort of like, yeah, people lived a little differently, but it wasn't really my prerogative to judge them. I didn't really care that much. What sort of conversation did you hear around campus about conservatives across the country.

Like, what was the stereotype of what we were and what we believed? And was there any acceptance of like, hey, like, you do you, I do me, or was it like, no, these people are evil? I feel like conservatives just didn't exist on my campus. So it was like you are completely in a bubble, never being exposed to conservative ideas. Correct. I mean, Turning Point was just starting, I guess, at this point. But, like, I never would have known what turn.

point was. It just wouldn't have even been a conversation. I don't think you guys would have even bothered to come to our campus. And we had a few. I remember there was this online anonymous forum called the Holyoke Confessional and people would go on to it, neither ask really random questions or people would kind of troll it and say like make up funny stories or people would go and like they'd gossip. And they did this thing where you would put an initial. So for example, I was 2015, so my initials would be AR-15, and the school is small enough that, like, you could see, you could figure out who someone was talking about. So, you know, there were a couple of conservative students who, one of them actually, who she's a public person, so Laura Lumer,

who's actually run for. She went to that school? She lived in my dorm, my first year. Wait, yes. What? She transferred after a year. I was going to say, I cannot imagine her in this environment. And I remember. That's hysterical. I know. And she's funny, I mean, she's funny because she'll really tell it like it is. I was a lot more, I think, sensitive to like everyone's feelings and a little open-minded. And she really knew who she was walking into school. She was like, I don't subscribe to any of this. And I remember one of the big topics that first year was Israel and Palestine. And she was really pro-Israel. And the campus as a whole was very pro-Palestine. And there wasn't a lot of room for Jewish students in that conversation at all, which is, I mean, to me, it's like really blatant anti-Semitism. But people couldn't even like, like, see past that. So she's one of the students that, for example, they would put like, you know, LL 15 on this anonymous forum and just trash her. Oh, I'm sure they were very, very threatened by her and just how different she was. Yeah. Something women seem to find really confusing is the order they should apply their skincare products. So let me break it down easily for you. The rule is

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It's right in the middle. my skin looks brighter, less bumpy texture, and my dryness has improved dramatically. Nimi skincare is also conservative-owned and made in the USA. Go to Nemeyskinkare.com and use code Alex Clark for 10% off. That's N-I-M-I-Skincare.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off, or just click the link in the description. I can imagine that being on campus where you're constantly told that the world is ending due to climate change. You are so disadvantaged as a woman. All men are against you that that would be

very high pressure emotionally. You know, I think kind of small chips over time and then I really shifted into that mindset my junior year. You know, I took a gender studies course, which really altered things. And I look back at kind of the classes I took my first two years. They were a little bit more, you know, the 100, 200 level classes. They're more intro to sort of ideas. So it's normal stuff. constitutional law, it's environmental science, it's broader topics. I took a geology course, but my junior and senior year is when I started taking like race, gender, and empire. And it was a 300 level history class. So it goes all into like how race and gender play throughout history, you know, um, in imperialism. And so it just really paints this picture of like the evil man.

And of course, like the evil Western man's like the evil white man. Right. And you're being taught this from professors with Ivy League degrees. So obviously you're going to to listen to them. And you don't really think about the fact that maybe these professors haven't done anything outside of academia. And maybe they've never sort of been involved in the workforce. So is any of this relevant to when you actually go and get a job? No. It's becoming relevant because I think students like myself, colleges are becoming little incubators for, you know, social justice activists. So then you go into companies after you graduate and you're told to kind of change things from the inside out, like, you need to dismantle the patriarchy.

It's like your— And so when they say you need to dismantle the patriarchy on a college campus, like, what are they said—what does that look like? What are they actually asking you to do? You know the term microaggression? Yes. Okay, of course, of course. So I learned about the term microaggression, again, my junior year, because the atium of the

library, this one day we walk in and it's been littered everywhere with little pieces of paper that say, can I touch your hair? You're so unique looking. Where are you from? And I remember reading these like, oh, what is this? This is so strange. And then it ended up being that kind of the Black Lives Matter movement pre-BLM. We had a movement on my campus called Mo Onus. And so it was similar. It was the students of color telling the white students about microaggressions. And so now I'm being told what a microaggression is and under and you know being taught that okay it's like little things each day so it's like oh no like have I and I remember thinking like have I ever like asked a black student like can I touch your hair like I don't think so but I wouldn't really think much about it if I're like oh I like your

sweater you know but now it's like you're being taught to take offense to everything that is aesthetic so like for me the microaggression internalize would it be like if you know a man maybe said that like they like this color jacket on me. I would immediately think, oh, they're objectifying me. And I need to tell them, like, don't talk about my jacket. Like, don't talk about the way I look, you know? And it's really silly because things that used to just be like conversation and compliments were now being trained to teach people how not to behave.

It's almost like these things purposefully instill a permanent state of anxiety to just operate on. Yeah. I can't imagine that. I mean, what did the international students on campus think about this leftist idea of reverse racism? Did they subscribe to this? Were they like, oh, this makes sense? Or were they like, this is ridiculous? Nobody does this where I, you know, where I'm from in my country.

You know, my school was very international and very diverse. And I think the diversity of the American students, it was just racial. There was no diversity of ideas for the most part. I think the international students, they tend to sort of stick to themselves. I think they have their little cliques and they go to class, they go through the motions, they do what they need to do, they graduate and they go home to their countries. Most international students that I encountered did not really partake or subscribe in the progressive ideology on campus. Do you feel like you ever came to believe that socialism was an answer to some of, you know, our greatest struggles as a society? I believed that lie that socialism looks really good on paper.

It's just never been implemented properly, but like, that's a yet. Right. So it was waiting for that moment. Yeah. How did your perspective of men and just society in general living as a woman in America alter over the four years of school? It definitely affected my relationships. I, you know, couldn't date a man unless they said, like, yes, I'm a feminist.

And I just, I think I was encouraged to question a lot of men. maybe even my own sexuality, kind of what I was interested in. And, you know, I didn't need to. I'm not, I'm not bisexual or gay, but I think that I was in that environment where it was really, really encouraged. And in that confusion, it adds to kind of all this anxiety because now you think, well, like, I have the option to just date women. Like, maybe I'll just try that instead, because it's so normal in this environment. And the reality of it is, is that, like, that's not who I was. That's not who I am. So it's just all these additional, like, identity crises that I don't think I ever would have experienced had I not gone to school.

I just would have kind of like continued on the path that I'm probably on now. Did you feel like any of the guys that you were dating while you were in college who lived in this very left-wing environment lied about being a feminist just so they could get with girls? Or did they really, really subscribe to it? So what's so funny about all of this and the irony is that the, the co-ed school that was in the five colleges, there was Amherst and there was UMass, but all of the Mount Holyo Girls would always go to Amherst kind of on the weekends because they had sports teams, and the sports teams would have parties and these things called the socials.

They were like these dorms that all the sports teams live in. So the boys kind of had their option of like, okay, they had the Amherst girls, they had the Mount Holyo girls, they had the Smith girls, because all these women's colleges were around. And so like all the girls that wanted day boys would go to this one school. So it's funny. It was kind of this weird juxtaposition of, okay, you have these boys that have so many options. So like they definitely don't need to feign feminism because they're kind of, you know, getting whoever they want, honestly. Yeah. And then being at my woman's college, like, seeing that, I think it, it made me think that like, it made me even more hyper aware of this like feminism because I was looking at this very one specific example that isn't. you know, it's not a microcosm for the rest of America or the rest of the world. Like it just happens to be that this one school was a really good school.

And that's where like the boys were and there were a bunch of women's colleges in the area. So what was your perception at the time of a woman, for example, who chooses and says, I want to be a stay-at-home mom? Oh, no. Like, what did you think, what did you think that said about her? Oh, I felt sorry. I felt really sorry for her. and oh, that's such a good question.

Like it was just like she is not living to her full potential. How could any woman really want that? Is that kind of the vibe that was given on campus with all these girls? Yeah, I think that I felt like, okay, I had a duty now that I've gone to this really prestigious college, like, it is my duty to go into the workforce and, you know, do something big so that I can show all the women behind me that, like, they can do it to. and I'm not just going to be like a wife or a stay-at-home mom. And I think I looked down, honestly, on women that wanted to make that choice, which is not open-minded. And prior to school, I was open-minded. I kind of was like people can do whatever they want.

And now instead I'm being turned into this little robot who thinks she's right about everything in that, like, you know, progressive ideology is the only way. It's diversity is only of race and gender. It is not of thought whatsoever and is also not of lifestyle. So, you know, thinking I was tolerant, I was actually completely intolerant. So if you wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, I would probably feel bad for you when I, you know, try to tell you that you're doing a disservice to women. Wow. Wow. Does that feel like so like another lifetime that you had felt that way?

Yeah. Yeah. So you graduate and what was your degree in? History and politics. History and politics, and you immediately start working for a campaign. Whose campaign did you work for? I worked for the Hillary Clinton campaign. This is massive.

Okay, and so what year was this? I graduated in 2015 for that one year, because her campaign obviously was 2016. That one year I did actually go to grad school. I went to grad school in Spain. I got my MBA. And one of the reasons I did that is because I graduated school and I was really out there with my ideas, like, very left. And that was a period of time where I wasn't speaking to my family or I wasn't able to speak to them without it becoming an insane fight. Okay. So it did end up driving a wedge. Your leftist views ended up completely driving you away from your family.

Yeah, because I'm coming home and I'm telling my mom, like, mom, you don't get it. Like you've been a victim to this patriarchy. And she's looking at me. Like, what are you talking about? She was like, I've been a single mom pretty much your whole life. And like, we've been great. We've been just fine. And like, you're not oppressed. What are you talking about? And then also the obsession with the environment and, like, crying over paper towels. I'm sorry. You are crying over paper towels.

Please, please tell us about this. What do you mean you were crying over paper towels? So you asked earlier or you pointed out earlier that all of this is so heavy to take on and you have to have so much anxiety. So the anecdote and the crying over paper towels is. just like this moment of like a helplessness and just breaking down like I can't possibly follow all of these rules. But like I know that I have to because like the world is ending. I use a paper towel. Like I really felt guilty when I would go into like public places and wash my hands and there'd be paper towels. I'd be like they just this is the problem.

It's like no, Annabelle, it's not the problem. See, this is the kind of stuff like now here's a thing. Do I think that conservatives there are some things in regards to the environment that we could do better on? Yes, I don't think that recycling is a bad idea. I think that there are a lot of benefits to things like that, but I also think that this progressive idea of you need to operate in the state of fear all the time. The world only has 12 years left and it's all coming, you know, it's going to end up in a fiery ball and explode or whatever. Like that is nuts to me. And I think of like kids that are really young in elementary school and middle school that are terrified. And,

They think that kind of stuff, that the world is ending in climate change. Yeah. I actually started my senior year taking anxiety medication, which I had never taken before. I had never needed before. I'd also never really experienced depression before until this time. And do you think it was totally because of the views that you were ascribing to? I definitely think that plays a huge role in it. I think at the root of it, it was like spiritual.

It was an emptiness. and, you know, I didn't believe in God at the time. I can't remember if I had proclaimed myself being an atheist, but I know that I was like, there's no way. Like, it just can't be real. And that is very sad, you know, just to sort of think that there's nothing bigger than you out there. It also puts a huge amount of responsibility on you and responsibility that, like, we don't need to take on.

You know, using a paper towel isn't going to make or break the world or the environment. So I did start to get anxiety from all these issues and also all these issues that like or all these ideas that again like being You know a woman and everything is apparently stacked against me. I have this idea I remember learning in school that like the 50s Having this vision of like 50s housewives all being addicted to drugs and being like really really sad and depressed and suicidal And I remember like talking about this with my family on one of the holiday breaks and my grandmother being like excuse me like I was a mother and a housewife in the 50s like, no, this isn't true. This is a lie. Like, look back at the history of when the country, like, had its best economic growth, when people were the happiest, when divorce was lower, like, what you're being told does not align with the actual facts. That didn't matter at the time.

I wasn't listening to them. You know, I was going back to school and still believing this idea that, like, women were, even though I felt, I think it's, I started to feel almost like women were better than. I still thought we were treated as less than, which both, both of those things are lies. When you start working for Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2016, did you believe that she was like God's gift to earth? Like she was really going to save women in America? I thought that Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi and Rachel Maddo were the Holy Trinity. Not Rachel. Not Rachel. I loved her. Oh my gosh. I'd watch her every night and I would drink wine and like scream.

Which is so sad. Like, no. I was so intellectual, just like seeping in all of Rachel Mato. And like her delivery is entertaining. It's great. I don't knock her. She's done so much. I mean, of course, she went and spoke on campus at Mount Holyoke. Like, I think that she and her wife live in Northampton, which is where Smith is.

So like, you know, she is really popular there. But again, I didn't know who she was. I didn't know. I'd never watched MSNBC before Mount Holyoke. And that's just what everyone did. What promises did you feel like Hillary was going to commit to? Or what did you think that Hillary was specifically going to do for women if she got elected in 2016 that was going to change your life and make it so much better? It was just the imagery.

So there was no real policy or something that you were like, this is going to get implemented. It's going to affect my life in a positive way. You know, I'd read about some of the things she'd done as First Lady kind of being the most involved politically, you know, the chip, the children health protect the chip. The Chips Act is something that she did. So I know I had reasons why. Of course, like a lot of people voted for her. There were people that agreed with her policy. But for me, it was much more emotional.

It was this idea of like this sort of female, almost Messiah, I don't, which is so dramatic, I know. Did you ever meet Hillary or Bill? I've met both of them, but neither of them, it wasn't campaign related. I met Hillary at a book signing. And then Bill I met after the campaign. And I actually worked for a broker-dealer and he came to visit. And I met him there.

And I told him I worked on for his wife in Virginia. What were the vibes for people working on the Hillary campaign? Like, was everybody just as bought in as you or were there some people that doubted? I think everyone was as bought in. However, I think for the girls, it was even more so because it was just that extra, like, if this woman doesn't win, then America is telling me like they hate me because I'm a female. So there was a lot at stake. There was a lot at stake.

Yeah, a lot at stake and also thinking that we were going to go back. I don't know, there was this fear that, like, as a society, we were going to go back in time. To the 50s where people were on drugs. Walk me through Election Night 2016. You work for Hillary's campaign. Where are you? What are you seeing happen as the results are coming in? Okay.

So Election Day on a campaign, obviously, you have. I've spent the last four months working seven days a week, 13 hours a day. Like, this is it. It is showtime. You wake up really, really early to get to the polls at 6 a.m. when they open, or even before they open because you're, you know, trying to talk to people. And you also are knocking on doors, making sure people get out, get to vote. So it's a long day. And then at the end of the day, everyone's in a, in different campaign offices kind of scattered around the county I was in.

And I remember I was at this one campaign office in Virginia and sitting on the couch and we're just, I mean, it was hours and hours. Remember that? How long that night was just like watching, watching? And we went into this day. Like I woke up and I was like, today it's going to be the day America elects the first female president. Like I was I was convinced. It was really, really convinced. I think that's also part of the entitlement that so many people had on that campaign.

And also just that entitlement, I think, connects to like, call. college graduates that are very indoctrinated. They're all very entitled that they know that they are correct about everything. So it was a big joke to everybody who worked on Hillary's campaign, Donald Trump running and becoming the nominee for the right, that was like, L.O.L. Like, good luck. Like, that's just, it was just a joke. Like, how seriously did you take him? I, you know, I, the only thing I liked was that he was a New Yorker. And I had like remembered him from when I was younger and be like, oh, that like see kind of seeing him be like, oh, that's on Trump. Like he was so famous.

Like everyone knew who he was. I had this idea like, well, you wouldn't want your doctor to have not gone to medical schools. Like, why would you want your president to not be a politician? You know, now on the other side I see exactly why people wanted someone who was not a career politician. And I totally understand that. But it was just very like people aren't going to vote for him or if they do, they're stupid. Oh, like that I hate even that I could have ever thought that, but I really did. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, you know, all those silly people in the middle of the country who don't know anything about life because, like, they haven't lived in New York City. Like there is a real disdain for people who live in Middle America. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I, oh, I hate even saying that. It makes me so upset that I could have had that mindset.

As the results are rolling in and all of a sudden Trump is, winning all of these different key states. How does the vibe in the room change? So I remember I had my laptop in front of me and I had it open to, I think it was the New York Times, had a map of the country that would turn, you know, blue or red or whatever. So I'm refreshing it, refreshing it at this point. It's still kind of blue, but, you know, a lot of the votes hadn't come in. I remember I fell asleep for a bit on this couch in the campaign office because, again, we'd been up since like five in the morning. It was now like, you know, late in the evening. I fall asleep for it. I wake up and my computer screen is right here on the table in front of me and I hit the tab button

and the map turns red. And were you like, this is a glitch? This is a glitch. It takes a second and then I just break down into tears. You immediately burst into tears. Immediately. Immediately. I mean, this is, the world is ending. So did you run out of the room and did you start yelling at other people in the campaign? Like, what is going on? I remember there were only a few other people in this campaign office at the time. And they just looked like they'd seen a ghost. So everybody's so in shock.

Like, nobody's talking? Is it eerily silent? Are people also crying, screaming? I only remember myself crying in this moment. I think people had kind of red eyes. Maybe they'd already cried. again, I had been asleep for a period of time. It was quiet.

It was quiet. And like as we're all kind of like packing up our computers to go home, it's just quiet. So at this point, it had already been announced that Trump won. I can't remember. Or it was like in the bag. It was like in the bag. It was in the bag. So I went back.

I remember to the house I was staying at. It was actually this really this nice couple who, funny enough, the family had a daughter that went to Mount Holyoke. I was staying in like supporter housing is what they call it. they too were devastated. It was just everyone was devastated. So what did it feel like emotionally? Hopeless. Very empty.

Very sad. Very like, well, what do I do now? Because I think so many of us on the campaign, especially since we were in Virginia, I think we all had plans to go to D.C. afterwards and try to take that route. Like I was really determined to like get a job in the White House, which I probably would have been able to just because of my resume. So that was sort of like the path I wanted to take was like, okay, we have this beacon of hope now Hillary Clinton, the first female president. Like I'm going to follow in her path. Okay, well, that path was just taken away.

So it felt like it had derailed your own life plans and purpose. And that can be really upsetting. I mean, obviously. Yeah. And so what were you hearing from other people that worked on the campaign about Hillary's temperament at the time after her immediate loss? Did you hear people talking about what she was saying behind the scenes? No, I think, okay, here's the thing is that even if she had gone on camera and, you know, said horrific things, I think we all still would have been like, it's okay, she's hurting. So there was no really chatter of like behind the scene anything snarky.

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I was in Washington. So I went to both. No way. And it's because I remember the election ended. And at this point, my dad was back with my mom. They, and I think 2015, 2016 is when they got back together. so my dad was living in Florida. I remember my dad gave me a call because I was planning.

I was like, I'm not going home. Because simultaneously that I was working for Hillary, my mom was making calls for the Donald Trump campaign. Wait a minute. So I was also going to ask you this, knowing that their daughter was working on the Hillary campaign if your parents had voted for her. They voted for Trump? Yeah. Whoa. So then you definitely weren't talking to that.

At this point, there was no, there was no relationship with my mom because my mom, I looked at her like a traitor. Keep in mind, this is the woman that raised me, took me to all my ice skating, Woke up at 6 in the morning to get me to the rank. Like, I mean, she was such a good mom. I'm not, I'm not over-exaggerating. Like, she really did so much for me. And I just looked at her, like, how could you turn your back on women? So we didn't really talk.

I remember when I went, when I got the job on the Hillary campaign, I didn't even tell her where I was going. I just, like, packed up my car and I left and I drove to Virginia. I mean, that's, like, really erratic behavior. that is not a responsible adult thing to do. Like I was so angry at her that I didn't even give her the courtesy to give her the address of where her only daughter was going to be staying for four months. That's how angry I was. That's how, like, emotional I was about and distraught. So, you know, the campaign ends.

And I remember my dad called me because I was like, I'm not going home. I'm not going home. And he called me. And he was like, if you ever want a relationship with your mother again, you need to come out. You need to, like, just bite the bullet and come home for a bit. And so, you know, that really spoke to me. And I did that. So I drove back down to Florida and it was tense.

Granted, she obviously was compassionate because she was happy that President Trump had won. So she was sensitive, but she really just, it was a lot of fighting. And then, you know, the inauguration comes around and she is given tickets to go to the inaugural ball. Whoa. And she wants me to go with. And so did you accept? And I'm here like, I can't believe this woman is making me do this. But you felt like I'm not going for Trump.

I'm going because I'm trying to salvage a relationship with my mother who voted for Trump. Yeah. Okay. The whole turn of events, the plot twist and this is so juicy. Okay. So do you go? So we struck a deal. I would go to Washington if I could go to the March the next day.

Okay. And was she supposed to go with you to the March? No. No, no, no, no. She was like, fine, whatever. Go to your silly march. Did you wear the pink hat? I didn't wear the pink hat. I didn't wear my Clinton cane shirt, though. Okay, okay. I wore my shirt. But, you know, the night before, I went to the inaugural ball with my mom and also with her brother who is handicapped. So this was another thing is that she has a brother who we have, he's lived with my grandmother his entire life. He's deaf and mute and brain damaged. And he's always, he drools. So he like looks very handicapped. And he's been a. a very big part of my life. He's my uncle, and he loved Trump. So this was a really big deal for him, too, like, for the two of them. So I was like, I kind of have to do this for my family. Like, my uncle's handicap. Like, I'm not going to deprive him of this. So I remember I went and I wore a white dress

specifically because I was like, I'm going to, this is like an honor to the suffragettes. Okay. So you were silently protesting? I was silently protesting. I remember before, of course, again before, hysterically crying, hysterically crying in this hotel room in Washington, D.C. and my mom's just rolling her eyes. Like, this is so absurd one day. This girl is going to look back and be like, wow, I got to go to the inauguration for the president of the United States. Like, this will never, this could never happen again. Like, this is a huge, amazing opportunity. So, you know, I kind of bit the bullet and I went and I remember like entering and just feeling so like these people are disgusting. I hate everyone in this room. But I still, like, you know, shut up and showed up for my family.

And then the next day, I felt like I had to sort of cleanse myself by going. to the march. So after that, what happens with your life? Because obviously you're sitting here today and now you're conservative. So I'm trying to put the pieces together. You had to cleanse yourself with the women's march. And now you're full-blown conservative. So bridge the gap for us.

Oh, gosh. Okay, I'm going to try to bridge the gap quickly. So, you know, after that, not too far after, I still was very progressive. I didn't want to be in Florida. Oh, can't be in Florida. Didn't want to be in my parents' house. I moved to New York, you know, got a job on Wall Street, did that for about a year and half.

2018 comes around. I am feeling, you know, I'm still very in all these ideas, but now I'm working like for the man, for a broker-dealer, feeling like torn because I'm not in politics anymore. Then it's the, you know, the Andrew Gillum campaign and the Ronda-Santis campaign. So I'm like, okay, I'm jumping ship, I'm moving back to Florida. like I want to work on that campaign. Man, what a clown show of a campaign that was. I know.

So the irony is that that brought me back down to Florida. But at the same time, I also made some lifestyle changes. You know, I got sober. I stopped drinking. And I stopped taking any of the anxiety meds I was on because I was feeling worse and worse and worse, right? I was feeling so anxious about everything all the time. I was starting to feel very low, not feeling like myself, feeling very untethered to who I was. And so when I came home, I was like, it was like it was.

okay, I'm sort of like treated it almost as if it was like going to rehab, deleted social media for a bit. So started, you know, join this campaign and simultaneously I'm starting to have this like a spiritual awakening where I'm believing in God. So the obsession that politics has on me is starting to melt away. It's starting to pale in comparison to. Yeah. It just doesn't matter as much anymore because I'm realizing things are a lot bigger than me. Things are a lot bigger than like any election. And, you know, obviously he didn't win.

Thank the Lord. I love Governor DeSantis. Went back to work in finance again. And then really it was in 2020 that I remember seeing the BLM riots. And I'm sitting in my apartment in Palm Beach. And my social media feed is totally an echo chamber of everyone I had gone to school with, everyone I had worked on campaigns with. And I'm watching these riots. And I'm like, I've already knew all this, right?

Because, like, we had a BLM movement in 2014 on my college campus. So now, six years later, I'm like, I've already heard all this stuff. It's not new for me anymore. And so I can kind of think clearly. I'm also, like, totally sober-minded. So I'm watching these videos of people burn businesses down in the name of empowerment. And I'm just like, it just hits me like, this isn't helping anyone. How is this good?

And in that is actually when a Prager-U video popped up. And what was the Prager-U video? It was called Are the Police Racist. So you decide to click on it. click on it. And what did you hear in the video? I remember in the first like 40 seconds, it's Heather McDonald and she just dismantles all these ideas that white cops are disproportionately shooting unarmed black men. Just with some basic facts. And I was kind of like, okay. And so then I went down, you know, the, as I call it like, reprogramming rabbit hole. I

spend so, my family and myself because I took out loans, spent so much money for four years of college. Just to have. have to really unlearn everything by watching videos online for free. I'm telling you right now, the biggest thing that I have told people for the last couple years is, like, if you can, skip college. Yeah, yeah, I think so. So you learn all of these different things. Not only do you learn that the police aren't racist, but what else? Do you learn that women don't have it so bad in America?

There's no gender gap is a myth. Learn that one. Climate change, you know, that the earth has changed historically. we are either warming or cooling at all times. That was a really big one. I was like really holding on to the climate idea. And like I was a vegan too. I had to let that go.

You know, I had to let go the idea that I think it's that we kill 25% more animals by farming vegetables than we do actually just eating meat. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big wake-up call. Well, and you know, in vegetarianism and veganism or whatever, or if you're eating meat, no matter what, the circle of life, something is dying and something is dying. something is living, whether that's a bug or whatever, something is dying, no matter what you're growing. Yeah.

So that's pretty huge. That's pretty huge. I remember even like learning about soil that if I wanted to plant a vegetable, I'd still have to have soil that has like meat parts in it because that's the cycle of life, exactly. So little things like that, which I feel like I had known at my core, but I just stopped sort of listening to all of this truth. So in 2020, you know, the light kind of turned on again and I was able to start listening. And, you know, I started talking to people, like my peers at work and sort of testing the waters.

Like, I wonder what someone thinks about this and realizing that like there's all these really young, cool, hardworking people. And they all actually tend to be conservative. Really? They're just quiet about it. Because, you know, you had your young feminist, like the former me who would come in guns ablazing. like everyone needs to like say their pronouns. And so it sort of silences immediately anyone that might be like, well, I don't know if that's the case. Like I don't know if I agree with that.

There's no room for kind of the, you know, conservatism in conversation. So do you think part of what helped you sort of deprogram from the leftist ideology that you, that had been baked into you in college, was meeting other young conservatives in realizing, oh, they're cool. They're normal people. They're just like me. We have the same interests. And everything is just that their political views are a little bit different. And maybe they're not that bad. They're all really happy.

I remember that. And I think the biggest thing is realizing that these policies that you're told help people, they actually don't. Progressivism doesn't help people. Socialism doesn't help people. That's why it has not ever worked. It's not a yet. It just doesn't work. Did you feel like conservatives were happier than leftist that you knew?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, less anxiety for sure. I mean, I think everyone has their own burdens, but it's just how you handle it differently and maybe take more personal responsibility for your actions. I think that progressives, everything's like, oh, well, I felt this way so I can justify how I behaved, like, no. You need to, I think that conservatives understand maybe more that their actions have consequences.

So what's really crazy is that all of this leads to you taking. taking a job at Prager, you. The company who had produced the video that changed your mind from leftism to conservatism, you end up there and you're working in the department that helps with like donations and things like that, working with donors, right? Yes. And so through this new job, you end up meeting Dennis Prager. Talk about that meeting and what happened.

So this past November, I was in California for our fundraiser because, yes, I'm in the development office for Palm Beach specifically. And I'm out there and I get to go on a tour of Dennis's studio just so I could have, you know, fun stories to tell donors when I'm back in Florida. And I'm talking to Dennis, you know, through the camera during commercial breaks, telling him about Mount Holyoke, telling him how I was estranged from my family, how I was indoctrinated. And he goes, you have to get up here and tell this story. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not telling this. I'm not saying no to the founder of Prager You. So I get up on his radio show. And I remember there was one other girl with me there and I was like, do you have lipstick? And I'm like putting

lipstick on quickly because I like wasn't prepared to be on camera. But I just hop up there. I said a little prayer to myself before and he just starts asking me questions. You know, in the second commercial break, I'm like, Dennis, how many people listen to this? And he goes, like, standard is about a million, a million to three million a day. And I was like, oh my gosh. What? And you didn't know, but who was listening? The New York Post. And so the New York Post reaches out to you. And what do they say? It was this journalist, Dana Kennedy, who is wonderful, and she wanted to do a profile on me and my mother, specifically about the indoctrination that we experience and the estrangement and kind of how I came back to seeing things clearly. And so after they publish a story on you, who else starts reaching out? Well, the New York Post article goes viral.

Even the Daily Mail picked it up. It's like, we've gone global. Yeah, you go viral as this girl who goes to college, gets indoctrinated, and then, has to deprogram from her leftist views. I'm the brainwashed girl. So the article, New York Post publishes on a Saturday morning by Sunday night. Tucker Carlson's team calls me. You're on Tucker.

The girls who worked for Hillary Clinton thought the world was burning down when Trump won the presidency is on Tucker Carlson. Yes. How freaking cool. He's my celebrity crush, you know. Oh, it was, I mean, I couldn't even. It's God. That's the thing, right? It's just all, it's all God. It's all God taking the lead. And again, it was totally organic. So what the heck did your former classmates at this liberal school think when they're starting to see you on things like Tucker Carlson and working for Prager You? So already having worked and made the announcement that I was working for Prager You lost contact for quite a few people. And sort of, you know, from 2020 to 2020 as my views were changing, just.

naturally lost contact with some people because like our, you know, our views didn't align. Like our lifestyles didn't really align anymore. Was anyone balzy enough to text you and say what the hell is going on? So I was in a, my senior year, I lived in a house of 12 other girls. And we were all like a friend group. Like we're all best friends. I've only heard from two of them. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. One of them was like one of them who was an athlete and like was never really political. She called me laughing. She's like, what did you do? And then I have another friend that we were really close and she was just like, I just don't understand. So we kind of talked through it for a while. And then, you know, a couple other people who I wasn't as close with reached out over Instagram. Again, some confused, some that were actually like, oh, my gosh, thank you.

I totally felt like I wasn't myself for those four years. And now, like, I am who I was before again. And, like, just they're very grateful that I've said something. My gut instinct tells me, okay, I have this girl sitting in front of me telling me that I used to be a staunch leftist, working in leftist politics, now I became a conservative. Oh, there's hope. But actually, you feel like there is not a lot of hope for kids who become leftist in college. Why? Because the indoctrination is very real.

You know, I'm actually reading the college scam right now. Charlie Kirk. Shout out, Charlie Kirk. And he really gets it. And I think that people may find it's an exaggeration. It's not. If you look back at sort of, you know, how all these institutions used to be. Like Mount Holyoke was founded as a seminary.

It's now secular and there's no room for God. All of these institutions are secular. And I think as soon as you remove God, you leave a void. You leave a God's high school for something else. You know, it's textbook Marxism. So I think because of that, like you're really, when you're in it and like, You know, you graduate and most of my college friends, like they all moved to sort of the same area. Like, they all have to move to Boston or New York and sort of stayed in their silos.

I think I'm the one person that had a parent who was, like, challenging me on all of it the entire time. And thank goodness, because had she just been like, okay, sure, whatever, just do you, I don't think I would have ever come out of, like, the anxiety and the depression and the helplessness. Like, the thing is that I wasn't left just when I went to school. There are obviously people that have progressive ideologies when they go to school. This isn't for them. This is for the blank slates who are just, you know, 18-year-old's eager to learn. Like, they're going to get indoctrinated. It's not of, it's not a maybe.

It's like a is it going to happen your first, second, third, or fourth year. But like, it's going to happen. So I think that there's also so much entitlement in it again, like you have this fancy degree. And so you justify that all of your beliefs have to be correct. you have to really humble yourself to be like, maybe I was wrong. And, you know, if you're in it all the time and being reinforced by social media, you're not necessarily given a chance to be like, well, maybe this is wrong. What is your biggest advice for either parents thinking about sending their kids to college or high school students that are debating on if they want to go to college or not? So if you're debating whether or not you want to go, I mean, really check your motives. I think if you know what you want to do and you need a degree for that, okay, I think if you're an athlete, that's also another like, okay, you want to go, be on a team, I get it.

You have to look, research the schools. You know, I probably wouldn't go to liberal arts college in New England. And it's a shame because these are historically, you know, supposed to be the best schools. But it's tough. Like, I just, I don't know if I'd go. I think I would take the money instead and, like, start. a business or, you know, maybe stay home and go to a local school so you're at least still connected with your family so that if things sort of start to change, they can keep you in check

because as you're being brainwashed, you don't know. I didn't know it was happening to me at the time. It wasn't until later that I realized, wow, none of my feelings were my own, none of my views were my own. I was simply reacting constantly. Now I can pause and think about things. Where can people follow you? I am on Instagram. It's just Annabella Rockwell. People can follow me. You can message me and I actually have a challenge for everyone. So if you know someone that's kind of leftist and you want to challenge their ideas, Prager You, we do have a website atpraygaru.com and there's a search bar. You can type in any topic. We have over 550-minute videos. So if you have a friend that's really deep into feminism, look up a video and send them one and just

start a conversation. And then, you know, for parents, I would say also, like, I think that parents should listen to you. They should follow a turning point. They should follow a prig. They should just be aware. And then also, I think you need to follow, like, maybe leftist influencers as well to know, like, what your kids are being told. And I think, you know, final thing is if you're experiencing this, there needs to be, like, a cleanse, like unplugging period. So for me, it was, you know, sobriety. I think, you know, I think maybe for 18-year-olds that are still in their house, like, I would recommend going off social media for maybe like a month. Like, if you're starting to spiral out of control with these obsessions over social justice,

like you need to get off your phone. You need to really, like, get outside, become clear-minded again, you know, have family dinners, talk things out with people that you respect around you. Because once it takes a hold of you, it is so hard to get out of because it just, it snowballs. It's issue after issue after issue. And the next thing you know, you're crying over paper towels. The next thing you know, you're crying over paper towels. Gosh, it's so real.

Annabella, thank you so much for sharing just what a compelling, insane life story. Insane, but also important to see how far the roots go in this Marxist ideology with our young people. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Alex. One of my biggest pieces of advice for young people is to take a gap year or two after graduating from high school. It might just give you time to realize exactly what you want to do so that you don't get the wrong degree, or you'll realize, hey, you know what, I don't need to go into debt just to make a living someday. Plus, you can shadow different people in fields that interest you to see if you would actually like that career.

Because here's the thing. A lot of jobs seem real glamorous until you experience the day to day. And then you might change your mind. And it's better to do that before the degree than after. Even my job, for example, people assume, like, I just show up, I talk to a camera and I get to go home. There is so much writing that goes into this job, writing scripts and doing research on guests for my interview questions. And thank God I have a producer who gets to take on half of that load with me. But if you hate writing, maybe you wouldn't want to be a podcaster.

You got to always be open to opportunities to shadow, intern, or be an apprentice. Best, best, best, best case scenario is, I think, I agree with Annabella. skip college altogether and ask your parents to put tuition money towards, say, a plot of land for you to build your future house. You need to learn about a credit score. You need to learn how to file taxes and even the truth about food in America. If you follow my Instagram, you know, I am so passionate about the food thing right now. But that's a whole another conversation. All of those things are going to impact your life more than anything else.

And this is coming from someone whose dad still has to help her because. I did not properly learn how to file taxes. If you liked this episode, then go back and listen to my interview with Leftist Dropout. She's very famous on TikTok. She was a full-blown leftist extremist. She even has ACAB tattooed on her hand. If you don't know what that stands for, it stands for all cops are bastards. And then she left the left, and she became pro-life, and she's conservative.

That is season two, episode two. The spillover is back next Thursday, 9 p.m. Pacific. night Eastern, anywhere you get your podcast, and make sure you subscribe to Popplitics on YouTube so you can watch those interviews. Always leave a five-star review for us as well so we can continue to reach more listeners. The spillover is produced by Turning Point USA, which a lot of people don't know is a nonprofit and completely funded by cute servitives like you. If you want to financially support the show, you can become a donor at TPSA.com slash donate, and you can let them know, hey, I would really like my donation to go towards the spillover. That is how we're

we pay for our studio, equipment, and salary for our staff. We are very grateful for your support. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love you, mean it. Bye.