Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “I Was Called A Nazi For Choosing Homemaking Over Girl Bossing.” - Alena Pettitt

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Imagine choosing to leave the workforce because you want to pursue homemaking… Then the media brands you a “white supremacist.” This happened to British blogger and etiquette expert Alena Pettitt, creator of “The Darling Academy.” In this across-the-pond chat, Alex asks Alena what it was like to be attacked in the national media for what should be a very non-controversial choice & all the burning etiquette questions! Learn to be more ladylike with your actions AND to be brave when it coun...

Did you know that outside of America praising things like family values, homemaking, and good old-fashioned manners could get you written up by major publications like the BBC and the Sun and accused of being a Nazi? Think about that for a second. This happened to my guest today. She lives in England and is the author of Ladies Like Us, where she documents how she learned to love her feminine identity and leave feminism in the workforce.

Her second book, English etiquette, was released in the spring of 2019, which is basically a modern field guide to good manners and family life with a time-honored spin. And the way that I found her was through her gorgeous blog called The Darling Academy, which focuses on things like etiquette. Well, in January 2020, she was slammed in the media for being a traditional wife in pretty much every major news publication you can think of. People across Europe couldn't believe that there was a woman that existed who thought submitting to her husband was a good thing, who chose family over having a career. You know, she must have been some kind of white supremacist, they thought.

Through that, the apron-clad army was born. Women in Europe and all over the world related to my guest because they were tired of being told that women were only worth anything if they acted like men. In a continuation of our May is for the Mom series, I'm very excited to host housewife, mother, author, etiquette expert, and Britt, Elena Pettit of The Darling Academy on The Spillover. And P.S., speaking of the Mays for the Mom series, make sure you listen to this whole episode because I have an announcement at the end. Elena, you are an etiquette expert. You created the Darling Academy. What is that? And then how do you define the word etiquette? okay well I've always been interested in etiquette ever since I was young it's very strange I was like me a child who you know would be interested in the way that you set a table and the way that you treated people and as I was growing up I realized as I was looking more and more

into etiquette I was realizing that everything out there was about social crime and I think that there's this really bad myth of conception about etiquette about people kind of getting one up on one another, making people feel uncomfortable. And I couldn't find a book that I liked on the subject. So I wrote one myself because actually I think it's more about how you treat other people. So it's weird. I call it the darling care as a week because I had the grand visions of like opening the school one day, which has yet to come to fruition.

But I think that's the crux of it all. This etiquette is about how you treat other people and more importantly how you treat yourself, first and foremost about feeling comfortable in any situation because your self-esteem is quite high, so in a good way. You can have positive self-esteem that can be quite destructive as well. Yeah, in your early teens and in 20s even, you didn't really feel like you fit in. Can you talk about the impact that had on you as a young woman? Yes, absolutely. Pop culture really was a number on me, I think, because I just didn't grow up at a time where etiquette and living kind of, I want to say,

the really loaded word these days, ladylike lifestyle. I grew up. The Spiders Girls generation, Britney Spears was just coming through as I was kind of like going through puberty, and it did not fit whatsoever, but because I was so desperate to fit in, I think most teenage girls are, and even women in their 20s went along with it,

and it just, it really didn't feel wrong, And I discovered, just like I got a little bit older. I was the only one that felt that way. You kind of went through like a quarter life crisis or something that just totally left you shattered emotionally. What did you realize about your life in your early 20s? Yeah, I realized I didn't have any positive role models whatsoever in my, I mean in my lives, but also in the media that guides me. It's transitioning to that kind of like sex in the city lifestyle. into motherhood and embracing kind of those feminine urges to, you know, I mean, not all women

have them, but, you know, to be a wife and a mother. I mean, there's still a thing. And that's kind of what I do with the darling husband now is advocate and try and wake people up to the fact that there's no positive role models for mother's Cs, particularly in England. It's a little bit different in America from what I'd know it. But yeah, there is nothing to look to whatsoever. It was positive and holes them. You had this big fancy career, which is one of the core tenants of second wave feminism. They fought for that. They said every woman should have the right to work.

If they get that, they're finally going to find joy and fulfillment. And it didn't really work out for you that way. What do you think was missing from your life as a career woman? Oh, gosh, what was missing? Everything, I think, because my life literally just came about a career. I grew up watching sex. I wanted to work in media. I ended up working in beauty industry

surrounded by, you know, all the glamorous things. Even, you know, everything that was popularized by NTB at the time, you know, like Laurie Conrad, working in fashion. And, I mean, don't get me for a career. It was a fun one in terms of the opportunities I had. But it was just so empty and devoid of normal human interaction I found

and a sense of home and a sense of belonging. you just go go go go go all the time work is fulfilling work is fulfilling I used to commute for an hour a day on the London underground into Central London doing my work majority of it was incredibly stressful and would sit there on the tube on the way home and people were just zoned out there was no social life people couldn't you couldn't meet anyone you know or if you did it was like heavily like people were drinking heavy I believe almost as of Medicaid, just how stressful this amazing career we were all promised was. And I realized there was no workwife balance whatsoever.

And even when I moved out of London and was still working in the same career, I think just the drive that you are told to have and therefore you almost must put on this mask. It's destructive. It really destroyed me. It destroyed my self-esteem. I found I said drinking heavily just to cope with it really and something had to give. And for me, it was my inspired career. Had you met your husband at that point or not yet?

Yeah, I had, thankfully. I mean, I dated quite a few guys who didn't show any promise in being able to look after me if I gave up my career. And actually, I went on British television on quite a popular TV show, breakfast news, and they were like, your husband wrote your resignation letter, didn't he? Trying to make him sound really controlling, like he was, you know, trying to get me home to make his sandwiches or something. But he did it out of love. Saw how destroyed I was by this idea that I had to have this career.

Wait, so your husband writes your resignation letter. People in England thought that he was doing that because he was basically like holding you hostage and being like, my woman can't work, which wasn't the case. What did the resignation letter say that he wrote? It's hilarious. I wish I kept the copy. The reason why he wrote the resignation letters is because I was scared of resigning

because I didn't have a job to go to. I also was working in an incredibly toxic environment. And the resignation letter basically said I'm not working my notice. I am literally, I'm not going to fulfill my contract. I cannot stay here anymore. So he wrote it because I was just too scared. He recognized that, you know, I felt track in that career. I wish I kept a copy, but it was very much I'm not staying here.

The idea, though, to have a husband that he is caring for you and taking care of you in that way, he was protecting you and your, and your, you know, emotional state. Like, I think that's one of the most romantic things I've ever heard. Yeah. Well, actually, I mean, I should correct the story there. We weren't married at the time. This was a couple of years before we were married. We were living in sin.

I think people get quite a shot sometimes that I did that because I talk now about my mistakes and things I did differently. But yeah, we weren't actually married at the time. I didn't have a job to go to. And I was actually a stay-at-home girlfriend for an entire year. What? A stay-at-home girlfriend? That's very popular on TikTok, you know.

Have you ever seen that? I know. I'm not on TikTok. But I have heard about it. I've heard about these stay-at-home girlfriend. It was a pretty trial run for us, actually, because he really demonstrated to me that he loved me enough to provide for me. So, you know, he's a whole danger.

You totally change course. You go from being the city girl, working girl, to moving to the country, living there, kind of being a homemaker. Was it difficult for you going from the city to living, you know, fully immersed in this quieter lifestyle eventually then as a wife and a mother? Or was it difficult to make that transition for a little bit? It definitely wasn't difficult in the sense and it's what I always wanted. But my mindset needed to catch up with the physical. So I was very much going through the motions at the time. Oh, great. I knew. I'm living my life. The life I always wanted.

And I realized that myself had been really quite destroyed in the way. process and I didn't know who I was. It's almost like I had pretended to be someone else for so long I forgot who I was. And I had a real, like you touched on earlier, I could real crisis of confidence at about 26 years old. I had my husband. I had my home in the country. I had my baby. Amazing. But I had been conditioned for so long to be someone else and no one was going hey, it's okay now to embrace this. I'm really happy to run my household like I used to run my career. Because I'm not just sat at home doing nothing.

I'm, you know, working for home and operating it. So it's been an interesting life. Sure. Well, all of this dawns on you that there's no representation of media of homemakers and stay-at-home moms in a positive way. And I think I want to write about it. speak out about it. So you do this in 2020. The BBC comes after you for talking about I really believe in traditional values in being a wife and a stay-at-home mom. What did they say? What did you say?

That was so controversial that the state media had to get involved. It's quite hilarious, actually. I think I think that's the former-miss they might have met their match because they turned up and I think they were expecting me to be some kind of Deppford wife who could be pushed around and who didn't know what she was doing and I've worked with some really brutal people in my time in the media and I also knew I worked in marketing so I know how to spin a story and get attention and and I noted it all the time with sensational headlines I wrote this article I submit to my husband like 19 59 and it was to get attention basically from these three because I want them to go oh my goodness what's this and one read it and go oh i see where she's coming from

but they didn't they just saw that and thought i was the worst thing ever public enemy number one of white supremacist nazi wait wait so the being a stay-at-home wife and mom got a pigeonholed and it escalated to them calling you a skinhead Nazi, a white supremacist Nazi. It's the worst thing you could be. It's honestly, being a housewife is right up there with Hitler these days. This is what the BBC said? Yes, pretty much. Pretty much. And you see it all the time. I get attacked, you know, on social media are a funny enough young women who don't have husbands or children who seem to think that I'm telling women to say. stay home that women are only good for having ladies and that I don't know where the racism comes from. I do think there are some slightly random people out there who hijacked the movement and say that women, you know, think very fundamental Christian. Why are these people so threatened by the idea of a stay-at-home wife and mom that they have to then slander you by calling you

a Nazi and a white supremacist? I don't understand. stand that's blowing my mind. I know it blows my mind too. I honestly had no idea. I think they're threatened because we live in an age where people like things very black and white. So it's like, you know, you have, we love labels. You know, you're going to, you're going to lease goal, you're going to do this, you're going to, and you never ever to rely on a man ever.

in your entire life. Even when you marry him and have babies, not ever rely on man because he, man, bad. You know, woman, good, man bad. Of course, yeah. I don't know if you've ever had that experience. Oh, yes.

The message. Men are just terrible and disgusting. Yeah, they say the future is female. Like, forget the men. We don't need them. We're independent women. I know. I've got a son. It's interesting to try and explain that to him.

But I've got no idea at why house prices threatening. I love on the Darling Academy, which is, it's like there's a blog and all kinds of stuff that you have on your website. And you have been very open about what you feel like have been past mistakes that you've made to help other young women kind of learn from those. And, you know, sometimes I think girls think, well, okay, if I were to go and start living in this more traditional way or say, oh, my greatest aspiration is to be a stay at home mom, for example, that they would be frauds. Like, well, that's not, I can't do that because that's not how I've been living my life for so long. How can a woman forgive herself from her past mistakes

and make changes if she wants to? Without feeling guilty. Because you can. You can do that. It's only the world that tells you that you should be ashamed of your purpose. Your past, they help you grow, and they check your character.

And I've done some terrible things I've had really, inappropriate relationships. I've taken recreational drugs. I binge, you know, like from binge drinking, all that kind of stuff. And look at me now. You know, like you can't, you can change. You can, you can improve. This is the whole thing. We live in a culture of self-improvement. It's just another way to self-improve, right? You know, like you can. And, and there's nothing worse than someone who sits there and he's very pious and tells other people that they're doing life wrong. Who are we? No one's perfect whatsoever. You know, you can change your life tomorrow if you want to. The only person that's living your life with you, and this is what's

frustrating about these women as well that attack me and troll me, I'm not telling you what to do. If you don't want to be a wife and a mom, that's fine. But I feel like your tire tell me not to do it, and that's not right. And I'm going to stand up for that. There's a lot of trad wives now in America embracing the I only wear dresses trend. What do you think about? that? Well, I tried that myself. It's really interesting. I wrote an article on it because I felt like during the 90s, which was when I grew up, femininity was, ah, femininity, gosh, these words are so londent. This is a whole dick with a discussion itself. But, definitely femininity and, um, girly, I want to say, a little less,

Britney Spears a bit more kind of like Boris Day. It just really wasn't cool. And yet actually that's where I personally find attractive. And I think a lot of the trad wives, and I have been guilty of using that label myself, but actually it's becoming a bit toxic. So I'd like to move away just a little bit. And I tried it. But not for anybody else, not for an exception,

not to appear like a child wife, not because my husband told me to, just because it made me feel good. And I think that's the thing. The whole child wife thing's becoming a little bit religious in that sense. It really is. You're not modest. You're not modest.

So that doesn't make you a good housewife or, you know, you wear trousers. I'm wearing jeans today. You know, I tried it for a period of not wearing jeans. But actually, I thought, they're practical. They're practical for my life. I'm going to wear jeans. Tomorrow, if the sun's out, I'm going to wear a dress. But yeah, the child wife is getting a little bit.

I stayed overnight with a friend recently, and I took out my skincare products, and she seized. NeNey stuff. And she was like, oh my gosh, you really do use Neamy. And I was so offended. Dude, I have been in broadcasting and media for 11 years. And I have never, ever in my career, endorsed a product that I did not like or use. I promise you that. I actually anger a lot of salespeople because I say no a lot. I never want to be that person that you feel is just shilling products for a quick buck. So when I recommend something, you can trust that I truly, use and love it. And that is the case with Mimi Skin Care. I was so impressed when they sent me

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What is the polite way for a pregnant woman or a new mother to respond when someone asks, so when are you planning on getting back to work? Oh, yeah, I still get that. My son's 10. And they ask you when you're going back to work? And he's 10? Oh, actually, I think most of my circle know what I do now. So I think they kind of, it would be a bit dangerous.

And it's about asking me. But, yeah, they started asking very, very soon. And I think that question is quite nuanced in the sense, you know, in this day age, it's very hard, taking Britain for a family to survive on just one income. So I think if the cultural law now for women to return to work, because they have to, not necessarily because they want to. Yeah. So I think a polite way, if your finances are such that you can stay home, then the way I would approach it is I would say, you know, Mike and I have discussed it.

And for the next few years, we'd like to say for me to stay home whilst the children are small. And that's it. shut up you don't have to justify any further or you could just say oh i don't know we're fine as we are for now that's the polite way you don't you don't have to justify yourself i think that's the politest thing is to one short statement and leave it at that and then if someone comes back at you and says oh aren't you bored then you could really you know then actually could go out arranging as far as i'm I love you. There's a lot of women that might feel trapped like you did in their corporate job and are wanting to go home and they're married and maybe their husband also wants them to stay home. But they're worried, how can my family afford this? How can we afford to live off of one income? What is your advice for couples to achieve this dream if they feel like they are facing a financial roadblock and getting there? Yeah, if that's really hard, I don't think.

you could give one definitive answer to that. The thing that's the most important is to get out of debt. I don't think anyone would feel quite comfortable and have a comfortable life. You could just in terms of anxiety, like financial anxiety, if you're dealing with debt as well as obviously trying to live on one income. So, I mean, there's loads of programs out there. I know Dave Ramsey is very popular in America. Yeah, he is.

Yeah, getting out of debt is the most important thing. And then, I mean, I don't want to use the word sacrifice, but there are things that, you know, we could afford if I went back to work. And we decided that our priorities are such that it's more valuable to us for me to stay home than the value of extra cash. So you need to search your heart in that way as well. You know, sit down, crunch the numbers, can do it. You might have to do without something, but actually what you get in return is well.

in some scenarios. Let's talk about navigating politics at a dinner party, okay? Like where you may not personally know anyone very well. This happens all the time to Americans. People at the table assume that you think one way, and maybe the reality is you disagree with everyone at the table, but you don't know these people very well. Is it polite to challenge another guest on what they're saying about politics at a dinner

party where you don't know anyone. Or it depends on how much apple you consumed. I am, it's not a cultural norm here in England whatsoever. Politics does very much pick. Behind closed doors, I think, you might discuss with your husband or your very close friend perhaps, but even then it's a little bit contentious. So it's just not something that we do whatsoever. You don't ask someone how much they earn and you don't ask them how they vote.

Well, do you ask them how they feel about Harry and Megan? Yes. But only if you trust them and you wait for them to go first. And then if you have a differing opinion, the polite things do you keep your mouth shut. Okay, fabulous. So Americans are talking politics and what political party you are and that in England you're like, Harry and Megan, what are they going to say? Yeah. But actually, the majority of that's actually you feel the same way unless you've got a connection to America in which history.

very carefully. And yeah, I think that I don't think an English person would necessarily invite a conversation at a party about politics necessarily unless you're there in a setting whereby you could invite stage because you're going to accept politics. And with regards to etiquette,

it depends on how confident you are, I think, because when it comes to policies, you're always going to offend somebody. So it depends on how diplomatic you are. Yeah. and so whether you can handle it at the end of the day. I mean, I don't think personally that, you know, it's good ethic. That's politics that the dinner table, but if it comes up,

it's for every person to decide for themselves how far they want to take it. I can't imagine it into very well sometimes. There's a huge trend here in the states of women wear leggings everywhere for every occasion. Candice Owens, I don't know if you know who she is. She's like a big political commentator. Okay. So Candice Owens recently called out women who wear leggings every single day and said that you at least should put on jeans, even if it's to take your kid to the park, that leggings are unacceptable

and that we've gotten too lazy as women with our wardrobes. Do you also think that women should dress up to run errands? Oh, I think it will be nice if they did. I'm going to give a very diplomatic answer here. Personally, do I like to gaze upon someone wearing leggings? No, I don't. I don't think it's attractive. I also don't feel attractive in them,

so that shaped my view of it. But should women? I mean, are we going to start dishing out rules now? You know, that's the thing. This is the problem. I think they should. I think self-esteem wise, I mean, unless she's a real gym bunny,

I think that showing it all off is like the best way to show off their body. I don't know, to each her own. But I do think that as a society, we need to stop being lazy. I agree with Canada. We do need to stop being lazy. And also, I've noticed, I don't know if you'd better make it.

When I dressed up better, I get treated better. And you have a better life because of it because you're respected a bit more. it's just the way human nature is. I mean, if you're going to go into a shoplifting, like you can drag through a hedge, then people aren't going to treat you very nicely. You're not going to get great service. They're not going to get great service.

You know, like if you look terrible, people do judge. But it's just human nature. We judge if you make an effort, you feel better about yourself. People will respond to you better. So, likeologically, yes, I would say, press up. Spicy, I like it. Yeah, rules-wise. I'd be nervous about being that.

I get enough to keep saying what I do already. I don't want to get into the leggings. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. What are some effective ways to teach children about etiquette? Oh, model it. Absolutely model it. You know, that we learn from our parents. I learned my parents.

My son has learned for me and have a really open narrative. So, for example, my son would come home from school and say something that happened. Dells apparently are starting very mean at the age of death as well. He, his girlfriend jumped in about two days ago. Oh my gosh. But, you know, just a silly little playground thing. And I was like, well, what does she say to you?

She said I was really horrible and she'd been telling other girls to not go out with me and say me things. And we discussed how she might be feeling and how that might be, you know, influencing her behaviour and what she's pressed and when I say to him what can you do to respond how do you want to be meeting to her back

or perhaps maybe you should just let her get over her feelings and next week to start talking to her kindly you know like it's an open narrative I think you can't give kids a rule book because they won't read it but I think we learn

mostly through seeing and modelling and open discussion and communication that's the best way keep talking to your kid why do you feel this way? What can you do better? What did they say to you? How did it make you feel? Would you ever do that to then? How can you respond kindly? So, and then as far as like good manners and things like that, besides modeling themselves, like, are you doing things with your son when he was younger? Like, okay, this is when you use this fork and this knife is for this and stuff. Like, do you do that? We have one knife and one fork like both people. I don't blame. an edgewater and dinner table like

got on the end up on the floor as well when he was about four years old okay no we just yeah so I don't think especially at 10 years old I'm gonna take him to anywhere that you know needs snail forks and things like that but you know they were you know they touch straight the reason we do that is because it helps our

the food go into our tummy's better we're not going to get a tummy eight you know like don't just bark instructions explain all the time that's what I found really, really helpful is not just do this, it's this is why we do this. You know, use your nap. You're going to make a mess with your shirt and then you won't be able to wear it again or it will be uncomfortable because it's soggy and, you know, mommy's going to have to wash it again. You know, explain rather than just bar instruction at them. Do you have any suggestions for how someone can start a traditional English library in their home?

like what classics should absolutely be included? Oh gosh, okay. Oh. All of the classic are the really piche ones, but they're beautiful for a reason. So Dickin, Austin, but I feel like you guys know that already. You know, all of the period drama stuff,

like we lap that up as much as you guys do because I think it harts back to an age of politeness that we would really like to see a return to. Okay, this is kind of a weird question, but I'm just trying to think of kind of difficult scenarios when it comes to etiquette. So what are ladylike ways to deal with a cold or allergies? Oh, okay.

Well, again, this thing, I mean, handkerchief. People really freak out about the idea of these days. But actually, in the Asian sustainability, they're much better than tissue. because you can wash them. You're only using them for yourself. Back to that Jane Austen thing,

do you imagine being handed a handkerchief? You know, you've got a tear falling, something in a man hands in his handkerchief. How much more romantic is that than here's a peanut? True. Yeah. And I would say lovely vintage handkerchiefs or even new ones are just a bit nice

to use and also it innovates you, your everyday kind of way of dealing with that. I mean, I'll admit I use tissues. Well, we have boxes of tissues around the house. And I just think in public, it's nicer to use something with a little bit more kind of dainty. But then at the same time, I would excuse myself if I could. So, okay, excusing yourself or having a handkerchief. And you know what I just found out is that years ago, to get a man's attention,

women would drop a handkerchief so that. men would see it and be like, oh, here's your handkerchief. And that was her way of getting him to talk to her if she was interested. What a flusy. I think it's really easy for people to imagine ways to be elegant in the evening time. But what about in the morning, especially if you have overnight guests? Like, how do you act in the morning? Like, is it okay to have overnight guests and show up and start making them breakfast in your pajamas, for example?

I think it is. I think it depends on what your pajamas are, though. If you're sleeping in like a really rasty old t-shirt and a pair of, like, what do you call pants underwear? Pajama pants. Pajama pants. Okay, no, lower than that. Knickers, boxers? Knickers and boxers would be like underwear to us.

Underwear, yeah, exactly. If we're thinking of making the breakfast in that, then no. But a lovely pair of pajamas that perhaps, well, going to pull out that loaded word, modest. In a sense. Because, yeah, healing or overnight, I guess. Some of them might appreciate the underway. I don't know. Probably, like, put a bra on under your silk pajamas set.

Yes, or a, you know, a camisole that holds you in or something like that. Or a lovely dressing gown, kind of a robe. But then also, you could always get dressed. There's always that option. That's an option. You know, like, just get up, get dressed. I'll tell you what. You could even wear leggings if you wanted because you're in your house.

You're in your house. It's all about how presentable what you're wearing is. Because some people can feel quite uncomfortable. I've felt quite uncomfortable for staying at other people's houses because you feel a little bit of an inconvenience. You know, like particularly in England, our house is not very large. So you might be staying on like a sofa bed or, you know, in a small spare room where there's no kind of like desk suite or, you know, extra bath.

and to use. So you're all kind of in each other's space in very close course. So I think just being very mindful of that and providing, if you're having, providing whatever you can to make you feel comfortable. So even providing them a time stop for the bathroom. If a woman is really interested in going to college, going to university, getting an education, but her ultimate goal is to be a homemaker one day, what are some major areas of study or focus that would be a good fit for her? there are certain things that would be useful to transfer her skills to her home. So you could learn things like, you know, hospitality management or cooking or even childcare.

But honestly, if there's a particular area of study that you do want to go into, say, I don't know, marketing is what I did. I can still transfer those skills into home. I would just back it up with a few domestic skills. so extracurricular courses and things like that to help bolster what you're going to jump into eventually but yeah things like childcare, teaching, cooking, home management, stuff like that,

all great areas to look to if that's what you know you really want to do. I would also be mindful that you might need to jump into them again at some point, maybe because you have to or maybe because you want. So I think this is the thing. saying, must get an education, must get an education for the what ifs. And I kind of agree in that sense because it's always clever to do that, but it's not a must. You've got to just be really confident, I think, in being able to turn your hands to anything.

So if you just want to be a mummy, you don't want to go to college, do that. If you've got the conviction, do it, follow it, live your life. and you'll pop. I wish I've done it myself. I like to check from time to time and see what the most popular episodes of The Spillover are. In our back end of our analytics, it'll list out our top five most listened to episodes. And I heard that the guest of our second most listened to episode of The Spillover ever just got asked to speak at Turning Point USA's Young Women's Leadership Conference. Now, which guest do you think that is if you had to guess?

I am freaking out, and I heard that she's going to be doing a Q&A. There are just so many surprises to be experienced at WIDWLS this year. Don't miss out on the biggest conference for conservative women in the country this June 9th through 11th in Dallas, Texas at the Gaylord Hotel. The biggest female speakers in the conservative movement will be encouraging you, inspiring you, and motivating you on how we can take back this country. The theme is 70s, so plan your outfits accordingly. All frequently asked questions can be answered at TPUSA.com slash YWLS, where you can also get your tickets. Go to TPUSA.com slash YWLS and use code Poplitics for a discount. I'll see you in a few weeks.

I have to tell you something. I was so sad when you decided to deactivate your Instagram for the Darling Academy because you had the most gorgeous Instagram. was like a magical place. And I was like, of course, she decided to get rid of this before this interview. But you had a really big decision to make. And you made that decision to deactivate the Darling Academy Instagram with a lot of thought. Talk about that with us. Yeah, I realize that's the the trolling was horrific. First and foremost, I think any woman today sticking ahead about the parapet saying I don't want to follow the cultural norms of the day is going to attract a lot of negative attention.

So I also realized I was on there because it was just what people do. I went to work because that's what people do, you know, like I am sad too. I used to look at myself and go, oh, isn't this really pretty? Look all my highlights. Like look at this highlight real. Oh, it's funny. And I didn't take a picture of myself playing with point it. Oh, funny that.

You know, like, oh, there's no picture of me when I've got the flu. Weird. Do you know what I mean? Like, I realized just how much it's kind of, as positive and lovely as it was and people got really nice things out of it. I think socially it can be a little bit dangerous to the fact that we start comparing our lives to other people. And I had women say to me, I can't be a traditional housewife or a housewife.

I don't wear dresses all the time. Or I don't have long blonde towel. Or I don't like vintage or I don't like things. I've only got, you know, I haven't got these children or things like that. I think it was becoming a tool whereby people were comparing themselves to my life and what I was showing them, which is why I deactivated it. Which in marketing terms and things like that, it's stupid move. You mean why?

Because it's a good way to promote your business? It's really good. It's really, it's a fantastic. cool in that sense. But as much as it would promoted it, it would also attract a lot of weirdos.

They are weirdos. How has, how has being off of Instagram impacted your business? Like, do you feel like you're doing okay

without it? Because some people are desperate to get off of that app, but they're too scared because they're like, would I lose a lot of business? Yeah,

well, actually, I, this is the thing. So people are quite confused with what I say. I'm a half-wife first and foremost. I've written two books, which are self-published, which are available on Amazon, ladies like us and English etiquette.

And yeah, it'd be silly of me to say, you know, like, I want you to go and buy that. It helps us, you know, our family finance. Everyone has the luxury of being able to do that. But I don't want people also to find that, those books, unless they're dated to find it. So I had a really big influencer, a massive YouTuber, buy my book because she saw, another YouTuber buying it. And her lifestyle and my lifestyle are wildly different. And I thought she is going to influence her million followers

to buy this book. And then they're going to get it. And they're going to be like, what on earth is this crazy Christian woman talking about? Oh, my goodness. And then they're going to go on Amazon and write four reviews. Like, if that's the payoff, I don't want your money. and what ended up happening

I've told them it was fabulous and thankfully the world is in close but it was a wake-up call to me I thought actually my message is for people that are looking for it and you don't need to use every tool

you know like just because I mean I haven't even looked at setting up a TikTok account because maybe I don't need it Maybe you don't need Instagram. This is to survive before it, you know, like, and they will survive afterwards. I've been blogging for probably well over 10 years now.

And it's still, I'm still able to blog before Instagram became a thing. So, yeah, as much of the pretty pictures are gone, I don't think they have that much of the difference, made that much of the difference to be on it. What is your wish for young women growing up today? Oh, wow. my wish for young women is that the promise will actually be fulfilled but they be whatever they want to be even if that being a housewife and a mum because that was a promise that was given to me and I don't know are you familiar with george or well yes yes okay so it's a very animal farm thing

I realize it you know all animals are equal except some are more equal than others and that's What I kind of, I'm starting to feel about feminism and women's identity politics is you are only truly filling the work that's gone before you as a woman if you are a career woman and fully focused on that. You cannot be fully focused on your family. That's not cool these days. Yeah, they don't. Yeah, it's not acceptable to them. No, not accepted. Well, which is, I mean, I thought feminism meant choice.

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That's g-a-r-r-n-u-u.com slash spillover with code spillover. The code can be used for one-time purchases as well, not just subscriptions. You have to buy tampons anyway. So support conservative small businesses that are better for your body and the country. Shop Garnu with the link in the show notes. that's what they tell us that's what they tell us yeah yeah I'm thinking

me well like you know I mean feminism again is so loaded I believe in women's rights education and women's right to do you know what she wants as a career and for her life look how she wants it to look but it's lies

it's lies unfortunately feminism now is about women's superiority it's about elevation of women and it's about working to the bone and you cannot have it all you cannot have it all at the same time you can have a career and you can have a family it's really hard to mix the two yep no one talks about that that's the important truth I think that a lot of people do avoid even the pro-life conservative Christians avoid that conversation of well you know telling women

that like you can have it all it's just that it might need to be at different times in your life You might need to separate them for a little bit. You know what I mean? Wait till the kids go out of the house, then pursue doing your dream job or do that for, you know, you're going to have to make sacrifices and choices. Exactly. And we don't talk about facilitating, Beth, you know, like natural biological fertility. Well, let me tell you what's really scary. I don't know if you've noticed this, but here's a huge problem.

With inventions like IVF and all of these different things, young girls, I'm fine. they are not considering that despite all of that, we still have biological clocks. So the problem is they're putting off things like having a family because they think, well, whenever I want, because of these new inventions, I'll be able to have children. That is not necessarily true. You still may not be able to have children if you wait too long, even with things like IVF. You know what I mean? So a lot of girls are not realizing that until they are 40-ish.

And then they're like, oh my gosh, what do you mean? I can't get pregnant now. I thought I could just use all these different tools. Yeah, I think the real problem is that we're actually not talking to young girls about fertility and getting pregnant and having babies. All we're pushing is birth control and putting it off and avoiding having babies whatsoever. Have you been able to find a lot of other women your age around where you live that have the same values and things like you? Or do you feel like that is difficult? It's really difficult. Even church, actually. I've met a few through church, but a lot of them are still working or returning to work, mostly because they have to

necessarily, not because they want to. But no, it's a very lonely existence. I think this is another reason why it put women off because, I mean, this is the good thing about the Dalai and cows during lockdown, especially, people were at home and going, oh, my goodness, I love being at home. This is amazing.

I was scared that I thought I'd be bored. And even my best friend yesterday who exactly the same age as me, married with children, she has been a ardent career girl her whole life. She even admitted to me yesterday. We'd read out to the country and I want to stay home. And I was like, yay.

Not because I want her to do that. It's just the fact that she finally realized kind of just how wonderful it would be. But it's really hard. It's hard to meet friends. I find my friends are mostly older than me because, I don't know, maybe for time. I'm around with a lot of older ladies. What is your advice for women that are currently state-at-home mothers and they are battling with loneliness? This is where social media can be really good. I mean, I know it gets a lot of a bad expectation in terms of dividing people, especially politically. But you can, you can find friends via social media and it can fill those times.

I mean, I've had conversations with women who said that they used to go on in the night time when they were like, you know, feeding their babies and things. And you can get that kind of 10 minutes to catch up with someone, send them a message and they're a friendly one back. That's what's brilliant. It's really hard to give too much encouragement because, you know, I want to give encouragement, but it's hard to give a solution because when women aren't at home anymore, the communities of rights in the day

and it can feel a bit barren. But the more and more people that step into that role and are around and are confident enough to say, hey, do you? Do you stay home to? You know, it's a conversation that's required. I've asked random women in the supermarket for coffee date.

Yeah. Like I'm picking up friends in the supermarket, but it works. Well, I know if we live close that we would be friends. I know that we have so much in common. I wish that we did. I would love nothing more than to be able to hang out with you in the English countryside. Like that would be such a dream to me. Where can people find your books, ladies like us and English etiquette, the motivation behind the manners?

And what all do you cover in these books? Give us like a summary of the topics. Okay, so both books, ladies like us and English etiquette are available on Amazon. and only in piggyback format because, you know, trees, I like to, you know, I don't like a Kindle, but it's too, it's not personal. No, I like a book in your hand too. I am right with you.

I don't even own a Kindle. Oh, fabulous. We can be. Yeah. So, Lady Blackass, I call it my rise to grace. So it chart my, you know, my time in kind of working as a career girl and realizing it really would not. for me and then also, I mean, we say falls from grace all the time, but actually I feel like

I've ended it in reverse. So it's the things I learned about myself, about self-esteem. I'm a Christian as well, so there is a little bit of faith-based stuff in there, but I've written it for other people as well who don't have a faith. It's not too evangelical, I hope. And it's about stepping into your kind of feminine energy and, you know, embracing that, especially in a time where culture tells you it's wrong to do that. And then English etiquette is about etiquette, but from a very heart-centered other people perspective. So it's not about which fault to use and, you know, when to stand up if someone enters a room. It's more about making other people comfortable in your presence, which I think is what we should all be concentrating on,

is a kindness with other people. And I also blog about topics surrounding those two subjects and also being the traditional housewife at my website, which is the darlingacademy.com. And unfortunately, you can't follow me on Instagram anymore. And that feels nice to say that. The Darling Academy website is lovely. It is so beautiful. I really encourage you to go check that out because her articles are so inspiring and it's just got a lovely aesthetic. and she has recipes and how-toes and you cover so many deep topics.

I'm like, how do I show etiquette in this scenario and this scenario? It's really well-done website. So everyone should check that out, get her books. Elena, thank you so much despite the time difference for coming on the spillover. That is absolutely fine. And come over to England and have a cup of tea. She's like a conservative Mary Poppins or something, isn't she? Adore her.

next month we're going to go back to our normal grab bag of interviews where every episode is random, but there has been a slight change. The first two weeks of June, I am basically sticking with this theme of, you know, what I did for May is for the moms, just because of who I was able to have on the show. It was kind of a happy accident. I was going to just release these interviews randomly later, but then we realized behind the scenes that both of them needed to come out right away. The first will come out next week, and it is going to do.

be the ultimate homeschooling episode. Every single stereotype or assumption that you have about homeschooling reasons you think you can't do it will be debunked even single moms or two parent working households. My guest is huge in the homeschooling space and I was going to release in August for back to school because that made sense to me because I'm not a homeschooling parent. And then she told me she's like, no, Alex, this has to come out sooner rather than later because if parents are going to pull their kids out of school next year and start homeschooling, that planning. basically has to happen now. So that is coming out next week. Then the week after that, I have the coolest guest ever that happens to align perfectly with YWLS because she helped write

all the feminist propaganda for fashion magazines in the 60s and 70s before deciding, you know what, I cannot keep lying to women anymore. That is going to be an incredible interview. And with this 70s theme of YWLS this year, it was just really too perfect to not release it the second week of June. So those you have to look forward. forward to, and then we're going to go back to having, like, random guests. And yes, I know, true crime, all that stuff. Do not worry. It's all in the chamber this summer. Special Needs Parenting and Adoption, pro-life atheists. Yes, that's a real thing. I didn't know that either. What you should actually be eating while pregnant and more. All of the random topics that you

know and love. It's going to be packed the next couple of months and we're just getting started. Every week, make sure that you leave a five-star review. Charlie Kirk read your reviews. So if you love the spillover, say something nice because he reads it. Every week we're back with a brand new episode. They release Thursday nights at 9 p.m. Pacific or midnight Eastern time anywhere you get your podcast. If you like to watch the show, you can do that by subscribing to Pop Politics on YouTube. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love You, Mean It. Bye.