Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “I Wrote Feminist Propaganda For Cosmopolitan.” - Writer Sue Ellen Browder

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

When the feminist movement was hijacked by the sexual revolution, it infiltrated every avenue of a woman’s life… including fashion magazines. It’s no coincidence the magazines you know and love today feel biased and voiceless. They are literal, editorial pieces of propaganda. & these fabricated stories didn’t just begin a few years ago. For 20 years, Sue Ellen Browder penned absolutely fake stories for Cosmopolitan magazine to promote the radical feminist agenda. After this interview, you...

Everything we see on TV and movies, on social media, and books, and especially women's magazines, is curated and strategic in order to manipulate us for a certain agenda. We know about fake news when it comes to politics. But did you know that there is fake news when it comes to fashion in women's magazines? All those stories about women doing this or doing that, and they all happen to be leftists or nymphomaniacs, likely fake, and it's been happening for decades. My guest today has such a crazy story and testimony. She worked for Cosmopolitan Magazine in the 70s and witnessed firsthand how propaganda for women specifically is packaged and sold.

She helped write it until she had an aha moment converted to Catholicism and realized how she had been living was hurting women, not helping. She literally went from propaganda writer to whistleblower. Now she is the author of Subverted, how I helped the sexual revolution hijack the women's movement. please welcome Sue Ellen Browder to the spillover. For 20 years, you wrote feminist propaganda for Cosmopolitan magazine. We got to start at the beginning. How did you end up at Cosmo in the first place? Actually, there was an ad in the New York Times, and I answered it.

I was a magazine writer. I had trained as a journalist at the University of Missouri School of Journalism. And there was an ad in the New York Times, and I answered it. It was Cosmo. What did it say that the job was? It didn't. I had just said it was in a magazine. And when I was at the University of Missouri School of Journalism, I had studied cosmopolitan.

We had a class where you were supposed to look at a magazine, take a popular magazine and analyze it. And I analyzed it at the University of Missouri, and I said, you know, these stories in this magazine look like they're made up. I said, they're too packed. I said, that's why I told my class. And when I got to Cosmo, I found out I was right. Those stories were made up. Now, to just give some reference, I think, for our listeners, what did the cultural landscape of the 60s and the 70s look like? Were there any defining moments of the feminist movement that you can recall that set the stage for what we're seeing today?

There was a parade in New York City in 1971, I think it was 71, that Betty Rijan, who was the founder of the feminist movement, she wrote the feminine mystique. She was in charge of this march, this women's march, and they marched down Fifth Avenue in New York City, and it created a great splash as all these women marched down and were trying to fight for women's rights. You have to remember, though, in those days, women were being fired for being pregnant. I was fired for being pregnant. A married woman could not get credit in her own name. There were a lot of women were not paid the same thing that men were paid for doing the same job. So there were a lot of injustices that women were fighting at that time that we've now won. I mean, there are no longer, it's illegal, the fire woman for being.

pregnant, except guess what? Under the radar is still happening. In what year was it when you started working for Cosmopolitan? 1971. Did you immediately start writing feminist slanted pieces, or did you write more normal stuff at first? Well, at first, I was just a secretary. I was an editorial assistant, which is a glorified secretary, which was interesting because I had access to all the files. And so I, you know, I was a young, ambitious, young lady from Iowa, and I didn't realize at that time what I was getting into, okay? But I was, so I didn't, I was just a secretary, I would answer the phone. And see, this is the thing that I learned. And the reason why I wrote my book,

you've got my book subverted. The reason I wrote that book was because when I was sitting there at my little blue desk at Cosmopolitan, the thing that I noticed, the one little thing that I noticed was that the women's movement and the sexual revolution were two radically different movements. Helen Gurley Brown, who was the editor of Cosmopolitan, would have loved for her sex right to be part of the women's movement. Betty Friedan, who had launched women's movement with her book The Feminine Mystique, called Cosmo quite obscene and quite whole. She did. Why? Because it was because of the sex attitudes. Betty Friedan was, oddly enough,

Betty Friedan was a family feminine. She believed in the family. She became a grandmother of three grandchildren. She didn't want all of this wild sex step. She just wanted, she wanted women to be more confident to not feel like they needed to be homemaker. She thought women would be happy if we did go outside of the home and work a nine to five, correct? Well, she wanted equal pay for equal work for sure. And also, Benny Friedan was having

troubles in her marriage. She was about ready to get her divorced. And so she wanted women to be treated fairly in the workforce. That's what she wanted. That's really what she. So how did it change so that we ended up with abortion, which is a sex revolution to man, being so prominent in the feminist movement? Here's an example of what a busy weekend is like for me. A friend's birthday dinner on Friday, another friend's one-year-old's birthday, Saturday morning, church, Saturday night, a facial Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon spending some time with a child in the foster care system that I do volunteer work with through child advocates or the CASA program. Getting me through all of it and keeping my skin hydrated and sun-protected is conservative-owned Nimi skin care.

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Nimi's mix and match three-step plans are great for those of us who are busy or just don't like to have an elaborate skincare routine. So go to Nemeyskinkare.com with code Alex Clark at checkout for 10% off. That's N-I-M-I-Skincare.com with code Alex Clark at checkout for 10% off or just click the link in the description. What you're saying is that the feminist movement, there were a lot of redeeming qualities and then it ended up getting hijacked. That's real. Yeah, by the sexual revolution. That's right.

That's true. And the sexual revolution and the women's movement, you're saying, were separate movements before. And then suddenly being a feminist became synonymous with being pro-abortion when Roe v. Wade happened in 1973. Actually, it happened before because, okay, so how, since Betty Friedan was a family of feminist, and she actually even later wrote a book saying, we're over-emphasizing abortion one. How did we get to the point? Betty Friedan was the one that inserted abortion into the women. Women's women. And we actually had the night that had happened, November 18th, 1967, in the

Chinese room of the Mayflower Hotel, when about 105 feminists had gathered, mostly women, a couple of young men, had gathered to draw up a bill of rights, a women's bill of rights. And most of the things on that bill of rights that night, we would all agree with. Women should have equal pay for equal work. Women should not be fired for being pregnant. all those things. There were only two rights they fought over that night and were still fighting over them today. One was the Equal Rights Amendment. They fought to the nail over that. There were a lot of women that opposed that. Feminists, the original feminists in America in November 18, 1967 in the Chinese Roe. The other thing they thought about that night was the abortion.

And what were they saying? What were people disagreeing on? They were saying the same thing people are saying today. One woman said, I'm against murder. They were fighting over it. They fought until almost midnight. Betty Friedan, okay, we're going to find out how did Betty Friedan get conned. But Betty Friedan sprang that last right on them at the end of the meeting.

And they fought until almost midnight. It created an up floor. People went out of the room, came back. It was a nightmare. And finally, at almost midnight that night, in the Chinese room, 57 people voted to insert abortion in the women's movement. Just 57 people. And from that moment on, abortion became integrated with the feminist movement.

57 people. And that's it. And that was it. One third of those women walked out that night and later resigned over the abortion book. These were pro-life women that walked out that night. And where did they go? Yeah, where did they go? Where did they go?

Well, there was one. Her name was Betty Boyer. She lived in Cleveland. She went back and started an organization called Weal, the Women's Equity Action League. and it was a pro-life women's group that was still, she wanted to give the people in Cleveland the feminist movement that she had promised them. She was furious over the abortion.

Right, right. And so she founded this organization. The full-life women who were in Wheel, Women's Equity Action League, were the ones that created a whole bunch. I've got a list here of all the things that they did. It's the second year. Let's get this out here.

Yes, give us the tea, as they like to say. Okay, okay, okay. What real did. They opened up academia to women, so now you could go to law school if you wanted to. They got a law pass that prevented women from being fired for being pregnant. They fought for equal pay for equal work, and for a married woman. woman's right to apply for credit in her own name. These were the things that they achieved. They achieved them behind the scenes, behind the scenes of the media. And why was it so behind the scenes,

if you will? Why did nobody talk about Wheel, if they're all talking about the National Organization for Women and everything? Why aren't they talking about Wheel? Well, I talked to Betty Boyer's niece, who's still alive, and she said, Wheel did not want the publicity. Because all these were working women and they didn't want their bosses to know they were some of those crazy women out fighting for those rights. Oh, yeah.

And so they didn't want publicity and they said, you know, let them have it. Let them have it if they want it. Now, looking back on her, you can see that was a mistake because the pro-abortion feminists got all the attention. Yeah, they took over. And the pro-life feminists did all the work.

Or not all the work. They worked together, self. They work together some. You know, we don't want to over, we don't over split this up. But at the same time, that was what happened. And so that happens, abortion kind of takes over the feminist movement. And so when you get hired at

Cosmopolitan then in the early 70s, how many of the topics that they were asking you to write about had to do with abortion, would you say? Well, not that many at that Tom. And here's an interesting thing. It was more when I wrote, okay, okay,

So first of all, let's make this clear. At first, I didn't write for it. I was just as secretary. But then I left. I didn't stay on staff more than maybe six months, because it's very expensive in New York City, and it was time to move when we moved back to L.A. But at that time, L.A. was about half the cost of New York City.

But anyway, what I wrote mostly, I didn't write abortion articles. I wrote mostly at least these wild sex articles. And the things there, and as I say, these stories were made up because you couldn't find women who were you able to step in the world of day. And was that controversial, these like crazy sex articles that Cosmopolitan magazine is now known for being this women's sex magazine. And they were kind of starting it then in the 70s. But was that controversial at all with the readers? What was their feedback like at first?

Very chill-like. Everybody thought it was really a lot of fun. I mean, that, you know, this was something new. But listen to this. Okay, Ellen Gurley Brown, who had turned Cosmo from a regular women's magazine to a sex range. And this is the editor. This is the editor-in-chief of Cosmopolitan at the time. Right.

She had written, and I've got it right here. I've kept this for over 15 years. She had written a list of rules on how to write for Cosmopolitan. and in this list of rules, which I found in the garage one day, it wasn't there when I was writing the subverted, but I did find it in the garage, and here's one of the rules, okay? Unless you are, she tells you how the line in print, okay? It's right here.

Unless you are a recognized authority on a subject, profound statements must be attributed to to somebody appropriate, even if the writer has to invent the authority. And then she tells you, bad and good, bad. All psychiatrists are basically Freudians. What? That's bad. You're not supposed to say that.

Well, of course, you're right. That's not even true anymore. That's not true then either. Better. According to one practitioner who specializes in group therapy, all psychiatrists are basically 40. So now you've given this quote

to an expert you made up and that's supposed to make it more authentic. What, of course, it would. This is how propaganda works. Okay, so here's another one. Try to locate some of the buildings, restaurants, nightclubs, parks, streets, as well as the entire case histories,

Dermado, in cities other than New York, York, even if you deliberately have to plant, in quotes, plant them elsewhere. So she is telling the writers, the editor-in-chief of Cosmopolitan in the 70s was telling the writers make up sources, make up these so-called women that want to go have this crazy, like these crazy sex capades. Try to locate some of these places in cities other than New York, even if you deliberately have to plant them elsewhere.

Most writers live in New York. 92% of our readers do not. So therefore, you're supposed to put these women all over. They're in Cincinnati. They're in Cleveland. They're here. They're there. They're there.

They're everywhere. In those days, there was propaganda. Now, listen to this. Okay. Go ahead. Did you immediately have red flags of this is completely unethical? Yes, of course I did. But you have to remember, I was young, I was ambitious, I was not Catholic, I was not Christian, and I just thought, oh, when I first came out of college, I went to a newspaper in New York City, or in Los Angeles, Torrance, California.

And when I got there, I found out they were making up things there, too. I had a woman that worked with me in the women's department of the newspaper and she said She says if you want to make up a story Use the last name of Johnson She says because if you make up something about Smith or Jones It sounds fake

But Johnson is the third most important Most popular last name in the country and nobody thinks it's made up. So the fake news concocting wasn't only in the fashion magazine industry. This was happening in journalism everywhere. It was happening in Los Angeles. So that was my first job.

So then I get to New York, and I'm finding all this again. And I'm like, oh, I guess this is the way the real world works. Okay, so keep going, because this is crazy to me. Keep going in the rules of what else she told you to do. Here's another one. very important. Avoid attacking advertisers. Cosmetics, liquor, bra, and girdle.

Remember girdles? Et cetera. And wear convenient. Where convenient. Mention advertised brands rather than non-advertised competition. So again, you're selling stuff through the editorial writings. You're selling the products. So you were finding out that cosmopolitan and all of these liberal fashion magazines didn't actually have an interest in convincing women of equality. It was more of turning her into a consumer.

That's what it was. Of course she was. That's exactly what it was. And listen to this. Okay, now this is in the 80s. What happened? This is when abortion rights were under attack in America. and in response, Helen Gurley Brown sent out a invitation and luncheon invitation to all these editors all over New York City. Editors came to the meeting from, Listen to this list,

Good Housekeeping, Red Book, Harper's, Elle, Savage, Family Circle, Ladies' Home Journal, glamour, self, parents, and the now-defunct new woman, which is the place I worked. Ms. and Mademoiselle, all sent representatives. Helen, early Brown,

the editor of Cosmo, spoke at the meeting and the editors agreed, from all of those magazines, agreed to run pro-abortion articles in their March 1987 issues. Wow. Among the articles that appeared in cosmopolitan that month were,

abortion, you're right under the attack. choice, separating myth from fact and my illegal abortion, and an article on why eight famous women were prone to. As I said, one technique of effective propaganda is to find famous opinion leaders to promote your cult, and that's what Cosma did. I said, this is from my book Sexling a Catholic feminist. I said, was this a form of free speech in action? An example of independent journalists honestly struggling to serve women's best interests and the public's right to know? No, it was a delivered attempt

by a handful of elite women to shape up political policy in our democracy not through a free, open, and unbiased dialogue and exchange of ideas, but through what amounted to a carefully crafted propaganda campaign. Unbelievable. That's what you're dealing.

and is still going. I was going to ask you, do you think that magazines like Cosmo, Teen Vogue, glamour, and others are using the same excuses today to write fake news? Well, excuses is not the word. They're just doing it. I mean, there's no excuse. They're not making excuses.

They're just doing it. It's the way business as usual. It's business as usual. This weekend, June 9th through 11th, 2023 is the biggest conservative conference for young women in the United States. It's called Turning Point USA's Young Women's Leadership Summit. And it's in Dallas, Texas, at the Gaylord. There will be incredible mainstage speakers from people like, you know,

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writers meetings within Cosmopolitan for them to talk about, hey, these are the issues we want to focus on or anything like that? What they have? No, I didn't because they didn't have writers' meetings. What they had was editors' meetings every Tuesday, and every editor would bring a list, I think it was six, I'm not sure anymore, of article ideas.

They just made these article ideas up, and they put them in, so then they put them in, and he had a big book, and then as a writer, you'd go in and flip through the book and find an article that you wanted to do, and you do that. But they were articles, ideas that people just made up. So you take an example. Well, one of them I wrote was when he doesn't want sex. Okay, because these women are supposed to be so hot. And then they meet this.

And I did write that article by this when he doesn't want sex. And so, you know, she's with us poor girl. She tries everything to try to get him to have sex. Let's see if I can find her still. She was a, we created Carl. Carly was her name. Totally made up. Totally made up woman.

Yeah. A 24 year old fashion model. Okay. So, you know, she plainly buys lots of makeup, perfume, and beautiful clothes, right? Says of her once fiery Italian lover, Tony. Fiery Italian lover, that right there. But that's once fiery. Now, of course, I've tried to.

I duds leaves of ways to seduce him. I bought a vibrate... I don't know if I should say all this. Oh, you can say it. Say it. It's fine. I bought a vibrator and masturbated in front of him. Sped $300 on playthings from Fredericks of Hollywood.

Learned to belly dance. Nothing. He turns him on. Tony absorbed in her narcissistic, consumeristic self. Our imaginary Carly pays no attention to her lover nor to any struggles he may be facing. rather she spends hundreds of dollars on material commodities to acquire the one thing she desires and needs from him. Thanks. Let me ask you something. The fact, though, that these nymphomaniac type of women were created out of thin air to cosmopolitan, do you think that sort of created a complex within women where we wondered, why am I not this overtly, you know, this overtly sexual prowess type of woman?

what's wrong with me. Do you think that created problems? Sure, of course it would, especially with young women. Why do you think, why do you think I wrote this book after I became a Catholic and I looked back with horror at all the things that we've done? And I thought we've got to clean us up. We've got to clean us up. So, and also, you'd have to remember when you dance with the devil, you're going to get stuck. And because of all this, well, I'm telling these lies. I'm going all on thinking I had a beautiful marriage, but in the middle of it, I kind of worship. Because I was surrounded by all these people who believed this, and I was only 27, which now

I'm quite much older than that, as you can see. But I, and that abortion, well, I'm still greatly, greatly regret. That's what I was wondering, if being around this stuff and asked to write this sort of stuff, if you started to become a victim of it, and if you feel like looking back, I was one of those brainwashed women. I was, yeah. I even wrote a chapter in here called the deceiver becomes the deceived. Because if you start telling lies, if you start dancing with the devil, as I say, you're going to get stoned. How long, after having an abortion at 27 then and working in this environment, how long did it take you to change your mind and then you became a Catholic. So you find Catholicism, and I'm assuming this is all part of your testimony, but could you walk us through that sort of heart change that you had?

30 years for 30 years. And it wasn't until I became Catholic at age 50-7 that I looked back. Even after I became a Catholic, I still thought, yeah, yeah, but abortion is still okay. And then I started to analyze that and think about it. And then I went to confession. I was so scared. My knees were literally shaking when I went to confession. Do you remember what the priest told you? Yes, I do. And he told me, he said, well, first of all, he forgave me.

And he said, you will see that baby again someday because he is not gone. He's not dead. And that terrified me. I'm like, I'm going to see this person. I'm later, you know. And he said, would you rather you not be a lot? And I said, no, of course so. So from that moment on, I found a great joy and relief from that.

I didn't think that. But when we first became Catholics, my husband, of course, was part of, We made that decision together. And when we first went into Speezy, the priest, one of the first things my husband said was, we had an abortion. We've had an abortion. And we had not talked to them,

almost for all that too. Did you find out then, after all that time that your husband had secretly been harboring a lot of guilt over that, too? Yeah. Well, yes, that's when I discovered that. Yeah. Yeah. So look at these things to come back for haunt you.

But there is healing and move on. And John Paul II, St. John Paul II, said that if you have gone through these abortions, you can now become a major figure. You're not a major figure. He didn't say that. But you can now become a missionary in pro-life union. And he's right, I guess, because here we are. And that's what you ended up doing?

Well, because, as I say, I wrote this book because why tell the truth? And yes, I work for live action now. And yes, I'm very much of a pro-life apostle. That's amazing. I didn't know that you worked with live action. Live action, yeah. Are you writing for them? Yeah, I'm researching and writing.

We love Lila Rose here. We love live action. So that's incredible. It's wonderful. Yeah. So no, I've written these two books and I've done a lot of interviews and conferences and everything. Yeah. So you've spent all of these years researching women, what makes us tick, what brings us happiness. And if being at home feeling bored and decorative wasn't the answer and then working a nine to five with no family isn't the answer, what do you believe the answer to women's happiness? happiness is.

Well, we've got it now. Well, of course, the ultimate reason for women's happiness is Jesus Christ. Well, that's our ultimate reason. As far as on this earth, I think being married, a lot of women now are married with children, with jobs. They're combining the two. A great marriage is the answer. A great marriage with a very supportive man so that you can do.

what you need to do. If you were working for Cosmopolitan today in 2023, and they said Sue Allen, you can write about anything you want, but you have one shot, one article to write. What do you think that article would be about? Cosmo? Yeah. It wouldn't happen.

But if it did, but if it did, and they said you've one shot to reach all these basically leftist women, is who's reading that now, what would you say to them? It's really hard. I would say you've been lied to. The myths of the sexual revolution, all the myths that have been perpetrated on women, we need to stop it.

Cosmo would never publish that. I know they wouldn't. So you ended up writing a book called Subverted How I Helped the Sexual Revolution Hijack the Women's Movement. Was that an easy decision to tell your story, or were you nervous? It was a very difficult decision. Okay. But what I started out to do is write that book to track down the history.

There's a chapter in there on Roby Wade, too. I was trying to, because I knew Roby Wade had been based on a pile of lies, and I wanted to dig into that and find out what happened. And so I wanted to write a history of the women's movement, and when I sent it in to Ignatius Press, they wanted my personal story. I didn't want to tell my personal story. And one of my best friends said, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.

Because I said, if I tell my personal story, I'm going to have to tell that abortion story. So I went out to a lake and I cried for a while. And then that night, I lived next door to my priest because after my husband died, we had a beautiful marriage for 40 years. After my husband died, they invited me to live in this little house on the church property next to the church. So the priest knew I was upset that night. So he invited me over for dinner. And I told him that, you know, I don't know whether to tell my story or just, you know, I said they've already given me money for this doka.

I don't know what to do. And he said, well, if you're going to tell us, he didn't say I should. He said, do it as an ascetic discipline. Just the facts. And I wrote that chapter once. That's it. That was done. So that was great advice.

Has Cosmopolitan ever come after you for the things that you've said? That's an interesting thing. No, they have not. And there was one of their writers that wanted to interview me. Really? Do you say yes? When I went to the March for Life, she was going to interview me. She wanted to interview me. And Ignatius wanted me to talk to her, wanted me to talk to it.

And I was like, she'll just lie. I'm not going to talk to her. Well, it was very interesting. When we were at the March for Life, she called on the phone in the hotel. And she had read my book and liked it very much. But she says, Cosmo won't let me talk to you because they have a policy that they can't talk to somebody who has been an employee. Yeah, right. I'm sure if you were on the other side of things and you were like, I was one of the people on the front lines and so proud of that. I was on the front lines in the 70s of Cosmo, you know, with the feminist movement, they would be like, we'd love to catch up. Where is this original feminist Cosmo writer now? Like, you know that that's bull. Anyway, that's what happened. Why is it so imperative for the left that women in particular fall for their propaganda? Because they could, you know,

There's men, there's all these other people to brainwash. But why is it so important for women to be brainwashed when it comes to culture? Well, you got it right. Money, money, money, money. Consumers, you know, they're selling all this stuff. You can sell, think of billions of dollars you can sell it and you can make. If you get all these women on the hormone pill from age 16 on, every woman in America?

You're going to think of the money. involved. There's so much money involved. So much money. And do you remember in the 70s when there was a group of women in the original feminist movement, not the sexual revolution, but the feminist movement who went to a Senate hearing and tried to talk to the senators about the dangers of birth control and said all of these women across the country are experiencing all of these side effects. Nobody is listening to us and then they kicked them out. Do you remember that? It was like the Nelson pill hearings or something? The Nelson pill hearings and it's in my book. And the woman that led that was working for all these women's magazines,

and they wouldn't publish her articles anymore. The pharmaceutical companies said, if you publish this woman's articles, we will not advertise in your magazines. So there were a whole bunch of magazines. Let's see if I can find that, which magazines? Yes. While you look, I will say, these women who went to the Nelson Pill hearings in the 1970s to bring up the dangers of birth control.

They talked about, they stood up and they said, we are experiencing depression, heart problems, decreased, sex drive, weight gain, blood clots, and all of this stuff. Because of the birth control pill, they were just removed. Do you know if Cosmo ever wrote about this? They never wrote about it?

They were never written about it. No, no, no, no. This is the one, you're right. In the early 1970s, it was Barbara Steeman. She launched the Women's Health Revolution with her book, The Doctors' Case, against the pill. And she revealed over 50 potential side effects of the pill, ranging from blood clots in fertility and breast cancer to irritability and depression. She sparked the U.S.

Senate, the Nelson Pill hearing. Angry young women repeatedly disrupt the hearings, demanding to know why female patients weren't testifying and why there was no pill for men. They were angry, but they were real. As a result of the Nelson period of co-hearing, so let's Listen to this. Drug companies were forced to place a health warning for patients on oral contraceptives, the first informational insert on any prescription drug. So the reason we have informational inserts on prescription drugs was because of the Nelson Pillher. But Thiemann, who earned her living as a magazine writer, the way I did, would pay a steep career price for this victory. In the 1980s, she would be blacklisted from magazines by powerful pharmaceutical companies who refused to advertise in publications that carried her story. So what you're saying is, Sue Ellen, is that everything goes back to the money.

And even though the truth said, birth control pills are hurting women's health, they would not publish it because it would lose them big pharma advertising dollars. Amen. man. You got it. Magazines who would no longer publish her articles include, listen to this, you think it's going to be Cosmo. She wasn't publishing in Cosmo anywhere. Ladies Home Journal, Family Circle, Omni and Hadassah. The Jewish magazine would no longer carry her story.

That's very interesting. Yeah. So we're talking with that other list I gave you of all those magazines that met with, you know, good housekeeping. I mean, with who met with Helen Gilly Brown. These were, this was, this was probation. This was all over New York. The birth control stuff bothers me so much because to me, that is one of the most damaging lies that we were sold as women with the feminist movement, is that this is so good for us that there's no cons. This will make us equal, we'll be able to live life better because we won't have to worry about kids and all of this. And so many women for decades have been sick as dogs on this pill.

And nobody will be honest about it because of their ties to big pharma. Yeah. It's so interesting to me that my guest is here this week talking about feminist propaganda in the women's fashion magazines all those years ago. And now this month, we've got a pregnant man on Glamour UK. They're using language like bleeder or chest feeder, but that stops here. Periods and pregnancy are a girls club. That's all there is to it. Garnu is a conservative-owned feminine product company that promises to never call you a birthing person or menstruator ever.

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Okay. But the first book is subverted, how I help the sexual revolution hijack the women's move. This book is, and strangely enough, it's getting dated. And I'm because there's a whole bunch of stuff in there on all the lies that Roby Wade was based on. Well, praise God. Roeby Way is God. And so somebody said, when Roe Me Away was first overturned, they wanted to talk to me and I said, they wanted to interview me.

I said, it's over. We want. Yeah. So in some ways, you know, I really feel. But this tells, the thing about, okay, so this tells my personal story, what happened with what I finally, how I finally told my personal. personal story as my beloved husband of 40 years had died. And so I decided everything that happened to me happened to him, so I would tell his story.

So this book is also a love story, and that's what people like about. It's both tells the history and it's a love story. And then the other one, sex and the Catholic feminist, carries this one a little bit farther, carries the burden a little bit farther because it tells what else, how did this whole gender thing, hijacked the feminists. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, there was a lesbian named Kate Millett who wrote a book called Sexual Politics. And again, it was 70s. And she became the superstar for a while in the media. The Time Magazine plastered her

and her picture all over the cover. They said she was, you know, leading the women's movement. And that's, that, it got hijacked by, uh, gender, gender benders. What do you think that if, if Betty Frieden was alive today, or Betty Friedan is how you say her name? What do you, if Betty Friedan was alive today, what do you think she would think about the feminist movement allowing men into it now? I don't think she was one tough cookie. I don't think she'd like that at all. I always wonder what the original.

feminist would think about how crazy the feminist movement has gotten where it's not even about women anymore. Well, I think they're wrong. And a lot of good things came out of the women's movement. But of course, now it's gone all wonky. And in this book, Sex and the Catholic feminist, I was still saying that we should reclaim the F word, feminism. But I'm not so sure anymore. It's gone so wonky anymore. I think it's too late to reclaim the F word. Yes. Sue Ellen, thank you so much for coming on the spillover, sharing your story, talking about your books, your expertise, and your knowledge on just the feminist movement as a whole, but also all of the propaganda that women have been fed throughout the years. I think that's very enlightening. So just thank you so much for coming on the show. Well, thank you so much for having you. I love how God used someone like Sue Ellen in this way. What an incredible testimony and important realization for women that's so much of what seems innocent, even a fashion magazine. could be full of fake news and fake sources and even fake people. One of my favorite interviews that I've done was with this girl, she calls herself the leftist dropout, that's her social media name. But she's a 20-something-year-old girl who's a full-blown socialist feminist, had ACAB,

tattooed on her hands, you know, all cops are bastards. She marched for George Floyd, was pro-abortion and then had her entire worldview melted down. Today, she's conservative, Christian, married, and even has a baby. And this all happened within the last five years. If you want to understand how to talk to someone on the left or how to change their mind, her story is so neat. That is season two, episode two of the spillover. Now, do me a favor and please leave a five-star review for us.

Next week is Father's Day. And I'm having the coolest dad on to talk all things adoption and special needs parenting. His life story is going to have you laughing and crying. The spillover is back next Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific, midnight Eastern, anywhere you get your podcast, or you have the option to watch the episodes on the Poplix YouTube channel. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love You Mean It, Bye.