Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “If We Fix Our Food, We Save The World.” - With Seed Oil Expert @ReallyTanMan

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

The government paid for cheaper food at the cost of the health of every single American. It’s time more people start talking about it. Steven Arena, AKA @reallytanman, is an expert on seed oils and a maker of @MASA_chips – a heavenly tortilla chip made with nothing but organic corn, grass fed tallow, and sea salt. He believes seed oils are the number one modern food ingredient wreaking havoc on virtually every part of our bodies: Contributing to obesity rates, diabetes, heart attacks, skin da...

Most of us don't really think twice about our diet or nutritional science until something catastrophic happens. Now, catastrophic is subjective. It could be a life-altering diagnosis or not fitting into your favorite pair of genes anymore. I mean, I'm just going to be honest with you. Personally, after the last three years of learning about corruption in big pharma and big tech, it was simple curiosity that compelled me to open the forbidden door into big food. And since the government wasn't completely transparent about its internet censorship or what concoctions were being mandated in the name of shoddy pseudoscience, I figured, hey, you know what, it's probably highly likely that I'm also being force-fed BS about food in America. And I feel like I'm still falling down the most disturbing yet enlightening rabbit hole of my life.

Every day I learn something new or about a different lie that I've been told about food. And one of my favorite new obsessions has been learning all about seed oils. You don't know what that is? Oh, you're about to. Today's guest is an expert on these industrial oils and believes that they are the number one modern food ingredient wreaking havoc on virtually every part of our bodies, contributing to obesity rates, diabetes, heart attacks, skin damage, and more. He was so incensed and fed up with the excessive seed oils in our snacks that he founded a food comfort. to combat it once and for all. And that's called ancient crunch.

Through that, he created masa chips, a tortilla chip made with nothing but organic corn, grass-fed tallow, and sea salt. And he has said, and I quote, seed oils are so totally and irredeemably destructive that they can be described as nothing other than pure evil. So then why the heck are they in almost all of our food products? You can thank special interest groups, politically driven science, and corrupt politicians for that. And today's guest is going to explain it all.

He believes that if we fix our food, we fix every problem that ails humanity from unemployment to crime. He goes by a really tan man on social media. And yes, I'm going to ask him how he's so tan and what eliminating seed oils has to do with it. Please welcome Stephen Arena to the spillover. I know that your name is actually Stephen. But you go by really tan man. So I always call you tan man when I'm talking about you to my friends. I'm like, you've got to follow this tan guy on the internet.

And really, you've become one of the leading voices on the internet against seed oils, which is now something I was telling you off camera that I've become obsessed with. But that wasn't always the plan for you. You actually, a couple months ago, had this cushy $250,000 a year tech job, one of those tech big shots. But you left all of it behind. because you were tired of seed oils and our snacks? Basically, yeah.

Walk me through that thought process. So, yeah, I see you did the due diligence on Twitter. Very nice. Hey, I don't go into these interviews blind. There's a lot of prep work. Nice. No, that's good. Yeah, well, the story starts a bit before, like, a few months ago.

So about eight years ago, I, like, started discovering everything about health. I basically was, like, really sick as. a kid and I had all these sorts of health problems. I would have digestive issues. I was like getting sick a lot. Like when I was in eighth grade, I got the swine flu and then I got the regular flu like two weeks later. Like that was that was the state I was in. And so when I was doing a study abroad in the first summer after a freshman year of college, I was in Europe like in a world where I basically had to cook for myself for the first time. And so I started realizing, okay, not only should I cook, I started to ask myself like, well, what should I cook, right?

So that, of course, you know, that questions recipes and then it gets you down a whole cooking rabbit hole, but also about like a health, nutritional, dietary lifestyle thing. And at the time, paleo was like very prominent. So I kind of stumbled upon that. And after like making a few of the changes that the paleo folks like recommended, I noticed that I just like felt so much better. And because I was able to like go from, you know, the cooking to the eating to the how I felt after because I had insight this.

was vertically integrated, as they say. I had insight into the whole process. I was able to tie together, like, how what I ate affected how I felt. And since I was always sick for the first time, I, like, wasn't anymore. Like, I could breathe through my nose, for example. I wasn't always having to go to the bathroom with, like, digestive issues. So I was like, this is like a whole new world opened up for me, basically. Because a lot of people, I think, with health issues or other problems whatsoever,

they get into this spot where they think that, like, the world is basically unchangeable. Right? Like they accept their fate. I'm sick. I'm overweight. I'm poor. I'm whatever. And they accept what the world throws of them. And then they're like, okay, that is what it is. But for me, with health, I learned that, like, I have control over this, which no one had ever taught me before. So I kind of took off from there over the intervening eight years. I've done all the trends. I went back to school and I was like fermenting kombucha in my apartment. I was like having girls over for kombucha cocktails. Right. I was that guy. Yeah, I was making sourdough bread at like 2 a.m. When I came home from like going out on a Saturday in my like studio. And so I did the sourdough bread thing. I did the fermentation thing. I did the kombucha thing. I did the keto thing.

I did the carnivore thing. I've done all the things. And so I think at some point about a year and a half ago, I realized like, okay, I have to start telling people about this now because I'm like, my friends have, I've already exhausted their attention spans. I already told them everything. I have to like tell the world. And so I started a TikTok.

account about two, so like not this past summer of the previous summer in 2021. And then I did Instagram. I did Twitter. I went from there talking about everything I learned, the seed oils, the fermented foods, the probiotics, like the gut health, the tanning, the sunlight, the meat, you know, a lot of talk about vegans and stuff like that, talk about keto. And that kind of ballooned from there. And I realized, like, I'd always been trying to like exit into, you know, some kind of

startup that I could do to like actually help make people healthier. and the opportunity to start Moss presented itself last year. And then after a few months of working on it, after like two months of sales, we started in July, I like decided enough is enough. And I quit my job. I was a software engineer at the time. And yeah, now here we are.

Was that absolutely terrifying to quit the job? It was. I would say it was a little, I had to think about it for a few weeks. I had known for a while that like my career path did not lie in like the tech world, or at least not in that way, as like a peon. I did not like see myself working up the ranks and like becoming, you know, like, macing my career off of that.

So I was just, I was pretty much looking for like years for like the right opportunity to like exit into. And so when it presented itself, I was like somewhat psychologically prepared to just like go take it. Well, and the thing is with somebody who is willing to take a risk like that, you're only going to do that when it's something that you truly in your. heart and soul believe in it. And that's what I really like about you. You're always talking about how if we fix the food, we fix humanity. And that's a really bold statement. So what do you think needs to change and what positive impact do you believe that that could make on modern

society? Yeah, sure. I'll ask the first part first, I think, or the second part first. Like the impact, so like, like, it's very cliche to say this, but oftentimes such cliches are like actually true. Like you are what you eat. Everyone knows that. But like, do they really know it? Right. Like we literally, like every cell in your body was food at one point. Right.

Like you breathe, you drink water. That stuff like gets recycled. It's respirated. It's excreted, whatever. But like every physical cell of your skin, your bones, your brain, your heart, your lungs, whatever. All of it was literally food. So like, if the food you're eating. is like called into question, then like the very essence of your physical constitution is called

into question, right? Like if we're allowing our bodies to basically not only like not only from a consumerism like spending money standpoint, but we're allowing our bodies to physically be constructed by large chemical based agricultural food companies, food companies. If we let them build our bodies, then like what are our body is going to turn into, right? If you build your body with crap, your body is crap. And because your brain is part of your body, then your brain is, like, everything falls apart. So, I mean, just, just, you know, to give some people some specifics, right, like, we have a situation where there's, like, massive unemployment or underemployment in a lot of industries and people are doing stuff that, like jobs they hate, stuck inside all day,

like, you know, in a Wendy's or in a truck or somewhere, whatever, like, guess what? But 97% of all of humans prior to like the Industrial Revolution, all of humans since the dawn of agriculture were farmers. They spent their time out in the sun like with plants, with animals, fresh air. And obviously like the economics of this can be difficult. And so like that's something that has to be addressed too. But that occupation is like honestly like what a lot of people are evolved for, right? Like we spent the past 10,000 years in civilization evolving to be good at like producing food

and farming and being outside and all these things. So if we're living in a way that conflicts with it, you know, people don't have pride in their work. People don't like are unable to do things that really like satisfy them. They're unable to see the, you know, actual fruits of their labor, so to speak. So I think there's a big sort of alienation that people have in modern society that like could be helped by, you know, having people make food as one piece of this, right? And then if you can have people growing and making good food, well, guess what? People pay more for good food.

So that means like farmers who struggle to make a living, right? Farming is not a very glamorous career nowadays because they're farming commodity crops that are very cheap, very low quality. Dirt, like bottom barrel prices are paid. Farmers are saddled under tons of debt. They have to pay for pesticides. They have to pay for all these things. But if you can farm actually good food, which there are plenty of farms that do, that's like a viable business for a family to run or for an even bigger farm. That's like a viable business.

People can actually make money because they're getting more of the dollars or they're getting more dollars per amount of food. and they're keeping more of it because a lot of these transactions will happen direct from the farmer to the customer instead of going to the whole grocery distribution chain, which I've learned so much about and it's an absolute nightmare. Oh, yeah. Well, I did not know until I'm not joking you a few weeks ago, like the majority of food in a grocery store, it's not even food. I mean, even when you talk about fruits and vegetables and stuff,

if they're out of season, they're all just chemically made and produced. It's like not even a real tomato if it's out of it. of season. It's like why you eat it? How do people in like upstate New York or like Chicago expect to get like fresh tomatoes in February? Like right? And these are things I never thought about. So I know that most Americans, the average American, they've never thought about it because this is so ingrained in us. Yeah. Yeah, because people don't have back to the whole farming thing. People don't have a connection to their food, right? They've never stepped foot on a farm. They never worked on a farm. They never seen anything about this. They don't know what actually goes into it. They don't realize like the cycle of nature

is like distilled into this one tomato, right? And like the actual like work that has to go into making that in a quality way. I mean, that's like from the economic standpoint. But what about like, I think the obvious one, which I should have started with is like health, right? We spend like over a trillion dollars a year on like healthcare or whatever it is. Some insert large number there. Um, most of that, I think 90% of that is chronic disease care. So not car accidents or someone got in fire, um, but like people with chronic illnesses. And what do we know about chronic illnesses? Well, they're like lifestyle and environmentally derived.

People have chronic illnesses because they eat crappy food primarily. There's other reasons too. Um, but because they eat bad food, they have expensive healthcare bills. And it's not even about money. Everyone always likes to talk about money, but it's about like how much suffering do you have as like a middle-aged person with like breast cancer or like testicular cancer or pancreatic cancer going to chemotherapy. How much money is that cost?

How much pain are you in? Your hair's falling out. Like you have to go on a dialysis machine. You have diabetes or whatever. Like that's massive amounts of human suffering. Like hospitals are like suffering factories basically. And it's not necessarily the hospital's fault because they're just trying to address a problem, which occurs at the root at the food, what we're made of.

So like, you fix food. 90% of our healthcare expenses and the suffering associated with them, well, what happens to that? It goes away. And what about all the waste that's generated? All the plastic and all the rubber gloves and all of the energy that's used in hospitals, right? We can get that back. And then, of course, the food industry itself, if we're eating good food, it's a big source of pollution, right?

Groundwater pollution, air pollution, whatever, especially in the Midwest. Midwest people are screwed because even if they don't live on a farm, the pesticides from the farms nearby them, get into the groundwater in levels that in most places are far above, like what are considered the safe limits. Yeah. Well, recently with all of these chemical explosions and all of that and things getting into the Ohio River and stuff, I've been telling all my followers, you would be amazed. There's a lot of people who still do not know that you should never drink tap water.

Right. They think it's like, oh, in America, tap water's safe. Yeah. There's no one paying attention to like the Flint, Michigan thing. Like, when was that, 2013, 2014? team, like, right, that's just the tip of the iceberg. And that's just what's accidental, right? Even when everything's going according to plan, like, unhealthy chemical additives are put

into tap water on purpose. Arsenic. Yeah. Chlorine and fluoride are the notable examples of this, right? They're put into the water on purpose and they're toxic. And then arsenic comes in accidentally and people don't know that, yeah. And then, of course, if you buy bottled water, guess what? It comes in plastic bottles and there's plastic in your water.

Yeah. So it's like all of these things are really. But if you fix the core issue, then you get these like sort of trickle-down effects in all these different areas that like in a traditional sort of public policy sense would be separate and siphoned off into different departments or different NGOs or different think tanks and different departments at university is all concerned with one minor little thing. But we, you know, obviously that doesn't work. It hasn't worked. Why would be expected to work in the future? What has, what will work is fixing it at the core, which is the food. And you have even talked about how fixing our food can even help with poverty. How? Yeah. Well, so going back to the unemployment thing, right?

Like people, so good farming practices require human labor. That's why they're not done because human labor is expensive and because people don't want to pay for it. But if we did pay for it, then all of the people who are currently unemployed or underemployed or whatever, like they could, like I said, work on farms and contribute their labor. labor to the food that now people will pay better money for. Like when 90% of people or when farming automation started happening in the Industrial Revolution, people who were formerly out on the land as they had been for basically thousands of years left and went into the cities because they had nothing to do.

And then they went to the cities and they became poor. And they worked in factories for low wages by, like in factories owned by owners that like were basically abusive. A similar thing happened in the Roman Empire. Towards the end of the Roman Empire before the collapse, it wasn't so much machine mechanical automation, but a lot of the Roman, like the Roman ideal prior to that point was like small family farms dotting the Italian landscape basically.

And over time, large landowners accumulated land into these big estates farmed by like slave labor that they purchased from, you know, North Africa or, you know, the Slavic countries or whatever. And so Roman citizens who were deprived of their livelihood went to Rome and became poor. And then Rome instituted the grain doll, which was like, you know, the first basically public welfare program in all of human history, giving these poor Roman citizens like free bread, more or less. And that's like a huge misallocation of human capital, right? Because you could have those people actually leading a productive life producing food on land that they own, right? or they're in the cities, in the streets, getting free bread, living a meager existence.

I think right now in America, everybody is okay with and comfortable with talking about big pharma. They're comfortable calling out big tech. But it seems like big food is still largely ignored. So how did we get to this point where people just don't question the nutritional experts that are in charge of, you know, supposedly what's best for our food? It seems like everybody is too afraid to look deeper into what we've been told all of these years about what food is healthy and what isn't. Yeah, that's a really good question.

I don't know there's a good answer. One starting point would be like food isn't really sexy. Like people don't care about food because it's so like every day, it's so pedestrian. People don't pay much attention to it, right? People like to talk about tech startups. They like to talk about fake food. Sure, they like to talk about lab grown food because it's like, sciencey and technology and that's cool. But no one wants to talk about like actual good old

fashioned from the ground food. I think there's like a certain idealization of technology that people have. And because of that idolization of technology, they ignore things that are non-technical, such as food. And so all of the smartest people or smartest people of this generation, what do they focus on. They focus on consulting. They focus on tech. They focus on engineering. They focus on like research-based academia. No one is focusing on farming. And if you go actually and study agriculture, any of the universities that offer degrees in that material, it's paid for by big food companies, especially like I think these are called land grant universities, right? They're funded by the unilevers and the Kelloggs of the world.

So the very education, if you're getting it, is not really unbiased. It's paid for by large food companies. And no one wants to do it. It's not cool. So because all of the cool people, so to speak, they're not interested in food, it makes food like this very uninteresting thing to most people. And so, you know, people would have rather look into different problems or like spend their attentions and energy somewhere else.

I think that's probably one reason. Yeah, I think that's probably the main reason, honestly. It's just so every day that it's like not considered cool. In your opinion, what is the difference between good farming and bad farming? Sure. There are a few, obviously these are general principles and it depends on like what you're growing and what animal and whatever it is. And in general, good farming. Farming is done with a high degree of human input, whether it's picking things or pulling weeds or shepherding sheep around or moving cows around or something. It's done with a high degree of human input. It is done without the use of like chemicals of any, like artificial chemicals of any sort, whether it's fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, whatever.

And I think the third easy characteristic of this is that the farming system is designed to have like a sort of resource closed loop. Good example of this is like the cow manure goes to fertilize the fields which produce food that is then eaten. And then like this is like this whole cycle thing. Which is different from the idea where like, for example, you can't have just a vegetable farm. Right. Because where's the fertilizer coming from? It has to come from animals. And similarly, similarly, if you have just an animal farm, which you could have, then you're not necessarily going to be farming a complete diet and you'll have a surplus of fertilizer that's not going into any plants.

So you need to have this like cyclical thing. And I guess you could call this like nature mimicking, right? It should be similar to like natural processes in as many ways as possible. So we're in agreement, right? We're going through our pantries and locking those seed oils up. No, I'm just kidding. But we are going through our pantries today. We're throwing out every single item that has seed oils in it, and we're going to see a radical change in our health from the inside out.

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You brought up how even if you're only growing plants, you still have to have animal product in the soil. And that was one of the craziest things that I learned recently was that veganism, vegetarianism, no matter what, animals are dying. The whole thing is a farce. And then all of this plant-based food is crap. It's not good for you at all. That was crazy to learn.

Yeah, like, people think, I don't know, plants have the, plants have very good branding. Whatever lobbyists plants are paying did a really good job. Because whenever people see like the little green leaf emoji, it's like, oh, it's good. And whenever it's like an animal, it's like it's dirty, which I guess it makes sense, right? Because plants are just people have house plants. They water them. Nothing happens, but you have a cat or a dog. It poops on the floor, right?

Like animals are like kind of dirtier. this sense. But yeah, I mean, life and death are like inseparable, right? Like no one lives forever and like you have a balance like inherent in the fabric of like biological reality. And so if you're going to farm only plants, well, guess what? You're going to have to, for example, organic farming, organic vegetable farming, how are you going to kill the rodents and other animals that try to eat your tomatoes and your lettuce? You're just going to let them do it? Of course not. Are you going to put a fence around everything? Well, guess what they get through the fence? If you want to, um, if you want a fun example of this, you can look up like farm pest control

on YouTube. Um, and basically what you'll find is a bunch of farms, like vegetable farms, or whatever, they grow lettuce or tomatoes or something. They'll hire like 19 year old kids with like a BB gun. No. Like a 22 and like a night vision, like little scope to like sit outside the barn and just like shoot rats at like night, right? You'll see photos of like, you know, piles of like crows or some other birds just like that they shot because they were eating all their plants. So you have to, you have to kill the animals. But then no one talks about it's like, okay, meat is murder, right? If I were to eat a cow that would support me for like half a year, an entire cow, one cow, one animal.

So actually, that would support me for about an entire year. So yeah, one cow per year per person. one animal had to die. But if I want to eat lettuce and tomatoes and all these things, well, not only did I have to kill a whole bunch of rodents that got in the way, right? And I had to use animal-based fertilizer to make those plants grow in the first place. Like, I have to displace an entire ecosystem,

which would involve grasses and birds and trees and bees and worms and little foxes and rabbits like running around through the wilderness. I have to basically genocide all of that, right, and replace it with like rows and rows. of like the same crop, you know? The vegetarians' heads are exploding right now, Tan Man. It's like, so people, it's funny.

You can say like meat is murder. And I didn't come up with this quote, but it's hilarious. Meat is murder, but veganism is genocide. Like you literally take, you take the land and you turn it into an outdoor factory devoid of all life other than the exact species of plant you're trying to grow up. And biodiversity, of course, is like the principle of nature. You have to destroy biodiversity to like grow plants. in like an efficient, an efficient way.

Now, here's what I don't understand. You look back at pictures in the 60s of beachgoers. Everybody's skinny. None of them were doing keto. Nobody'd ever heard of that. They're not tracking their steps, right? So what has changed between then and now? Sure, good question.

I think the two best answers to this are number one seed oils, which we had to get into. And number two is just like a whole umbrella category. of like environmental toxins, like environmental toxins to which we were exposed. So to briefly do the seed oils, and I'm sure they'll have follow-up questions. Seed oils were never part of the human diet of anyone in any capacity prior to the 1920s,

because seed oils, like in order to make them, in order to make the oils from seeds, like a viable, like quote unquote, edible product, you need industrial technology that literally did not exist until that. So canola oil, did not exist prior to the 1920s like margarine whatever sunflower seed oil all these things it just did not exist whereas milk has been around like cow dairy it's been around for 10 to 15 000 years grain has been around for 7 000 years meat obviously has been around forever um seed oils are new

right and they're a product of industry and there's no way around that um so seed oils went from being 0% of the american food supply to around 20s are of all calories, all calories in like the contemporary times. So you have like, charitably speaking, if you count like the naturally occurring like vegetable oils from like eating a whole bunch of like wheat or something or like beans. Charitably speaking, that's like a 20x increase in the amount of like seed oil, like unsaturated fats, which are the main ingredient seed oils. That's like a 20x increase in the amount that we're consuming. And that has, seed oils have a whole host of problems, which stems from the fact they're highly

inflammatory, right? They react when they're exposed to air, so oxygen, heat, and light. They cause oxidative stress. Everyone knows antioxidants. Well, what are antioxidants anti? They're anti, the oxidants. And oxidants are seed oils. So seed oils cause all sorts of inflammation.

So every kind of chronic disease, wherever it is, I. brain, skin, whatever, seed oils, you can implicate seed oils in them. And the other thing is that seed oils make people fat because they mess with people's ability to like regulate the amount of food that they're intaking. Yeah. So that's seed oils. And the other thing would be like all sorts environmental toxin, mostly from plastics and then pesticides too, right? But like the smog, the pollution, the plastics, the pesticides, all of these things that are like either messing with our microbiome, or messing with our hormones, like change the way our body processes food, and they change our metabolism, and they make people overweight.

So, yeah, those I think are the, not sugar, interestingly enough. Those two things are the big reasons I would blame for everyone's lack of, say, physical fitness these days. We limit the seed oils. We limit our exposure to plastics. Basically, we can completely transform our health. Yeah, sure. I mean, there's infinite things, right?

get more time outside, fresh air, like exercise. You don't have to go crazy. People in 1950s didn't go crazy with exercise. There's obviously a few more things. But I think the two biggest things for sure are the seed oils and, you know, the environmental toxins of which plastics make up an important role. Now, you mentioned going to Europe and I've never been to Europe. But everyone I know that has, they talk about how I could eat anything I want. I could indulge in pastas and cheeses and I never gained weight.

and I didn't feel sluggish and lethargic and like crap, why do they feel so much better eating foods that in America are, quote unquote, bad foods? Well, yeah, less seed oils and less pesticides. So the soil has been much better maintained in Europe because people have been farming there for thousands of years and they know how to take care of their land. And so food itself is more nutrient dense. People often say like, oh, the tomatoes in Italy were so red, you know,

and the tomatoes in America are like pale pinkish. So, like, the faster a plant grows and the bigger it grows, like, the less nutrient density is, right? Because, like, imagine if there's nutrients in a tomato, if it's bigger and it grew faster, it had less time to spread those nutrients out into every corner of the tomato. And so the same tomato has fewer nutrients, right? So they use fewer fertilizers and they use less pesticides, and the soil is more nutrient dense. So the foods are more nutrient dense, which means you want to eat less of them because hunger is not about calories.

It's about nutrients. So if you, like, are hungry, you have cravings and like pregnant women know this better than anyone, right? They have cravings not for calories in like a, you know, just a quantity of energy. They have cravings for specific foods because of specific nutrient content of those foods. So the foods are more nutrient dense. Like, there are thousands of pesticides which are banned in Europe, which are like commonly used in the U.S.

Commonly used. Even just a bag of Doritos in America compared to Europe, they have all of the, you know, these ingredients in America that are not allowed over there? Yeah, the food additives, the colorings. I actually wrote a whole Twitter post and Instagram thing on this recently. That was like my best performing post. They got like 50,000 likes. I was like blown away about like all the things that are illegal in other countries, but not in the U.S. And why is that? Why are they not illegal here? Because the people who make the regulations don't care about prioritizing health. I think is one way to say it.

They care about making money. Well, the people doing the regulations don't necessarily care about money because they work for the government, but they are very, they have very close relationships, shall we say, with the people who do the making of the money. And it's, yeah, I mean, that's just like the way the American system is across all sorts of metrics. It's like there are no rules, right? And the wealthiest people make the rules. And so I think that applies to food and environmental policy just as much as it applies to anyone else or anything else. I don't think it's like, you can't even talk it up to like a lack of caring for like some

abstract notion of human rights. Like half this stuff that's illegal in other countries is like illegal in China and Russia, which like most Americans, I think, would say like don't care about their people as much as Americans do. Yet it's still illegal over there and it's allowed here. Yeah. I mean, it's mind blowing to look at this like a photograph of some woman in Paris smoking cigarettes and eating bread all day and she looks better than me.

Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, that's two things right there with the brand. Like, they don't use glyphosate, which is a primary pesticide used in wheat in the U.S. And that messes with people's microbiome and will modify their metabolism. So her metabolism is faster. And the irony with the tobacco is that, like, tobacco suppresses estrogen. And so estrogen, which is like, it's not like the female hormone in the same way that testosterone is the male hormone.

It's not like more estrogen makes you more womanly. And estrogen is like, too much estrogen is no good for men and for women. And it's funny that a lot of the things that are bad in American society, plastics, notably among them and seed oils have estrogen effects. They raise estrogen levels. And so ironically, the tobacco smoke is like suppressing estrogen, which has a tendency to cause excess weight gain because high body fat is estrogenic. Not saying that you should go out and smoke cigarettes, but I think that actually does have

a role to play in this, which is pretty interesting. Well, just because my listeners absolutely love a, you know, what to do and what not to do, when it comes to buying bread, what kind of bread should people be buying? That's a good question, isn't it? It has a very good answer, but the answer is not easy because it's like, it basically eliminates like 99% of bread that one could conceivably buy. Is it sprouted? Sprouted is one thing.

So it has to either be sprouted or sourdough. The grains have to be 100% organic right off the bat. They have to, they should be some ancient or heritage variety of wheat, not like a modern GMO'd hybridized variety. And I think importantly, they should, bread should be freshly milled. So like the amount of time between when the wheat is turned into flour and when that flour is turned into bread should be as minimal as possible. And also the bread should not have anything else in it other than flower water water water. and salt. You don't need soybean oil and bread, which is, which is in most of the grocery store breads. You also don't need high fructose corn syrup in bread. You don't need enriched,

like bromine enriched or whatever, like synthetic vitamin enriched flour either. So some breads are bread and others. Like local bakers are like your best bet. I literally know of only a handful of bakeries like in the entire country that like bake bread according to like what I would consider ideal standards. So do you have a list somewhere of these bakeries for people? I do. I have a list of like good farms and good places to get food actually. If they go to Shire app, like S-H-I-R-A-P dot I-O, they can search from where they are and

they can find all sorts of farms and like healthy ways to get healthy food, like ingredients mostly, like grocery shopping and stuff near them. When the government started to subsidize things like sugar, wheat, corn, soy, we were told that they were doing that because this was going to make all of the food more affordable. Families are going to be able to eat. And technically, that is true. But what was the real cost? Yeah. So a lot of the food subsidies started during World War II.

So there were like issues with supply chains in the U.S. food system at that time and the government fighting a war needed to make sure that food, you know, was made available. And so they started paying farmers to grow food. And they were basically ensuring them that like, hey, it doesn't matter if you sell it or not, like, we'll buy it from you. Like, don't stop growing food. That was basically the program. And it just so happens that once you start giving people money for free, it's usually hard to stop. And so after the war, it did not revert back to like no more subsidies. They just continued. And so subsidies became a very significant part of like Midwestern politics in particular, but then like national politics in general.

And of course, when you want to subsidize food, if you're trying to like run a war, you need to subsidize the things that will make the most impact, like the biggest scale. So you're going to subsidize the things that are easiest to produce and easiest to store, notably the grains, wheat, corn, soy being chief among them. And that just like continued to happen until, I mean, until now. But a big change occurred in the 1970s when Nixon's like agriculture minister, I forget what the title is, the guy basically had the policy of get big or get out. That was his policy to U.S. farmers. Arguably it was arguably people like the big food companies encouraged this sort of policy. And so that was that was what the federal government told farmers, right? They set their policies accordingly.

They set regulations accordingly. it made life difficult for people for like small farmers to exist either like in a regulatory sense or from a financial standpoint. And then you know here we have it like the entirety of the Midwest is turned into like basically toxin growing factories outdoors. And they end up in all our food because we don't know what else to do with them. Right. We don't want to just like light piles of corn on fire. So they made high fructose corn syrup and they put that in sweeteners. They they make soy protein isolate and put that in protein powders and protein bars. That's why, like, America uniquely has, like, corn in almost every single packaged food.

Right. Yes. Yeah. And it's not that, like, corn is inherently a problem or even soy is inherently a problem. It's like when you start consuming things that are, A, grown in, you know, that are such poor quality that they're, like, not meant to be consumed at all. Or you're, like, consuming sort of isolates or extracts like high-furture's corn syrup or soy protein isolate, that are never meant to be isolated and you're doing it in like massive quantities at every meal, three meals a day, and like every snack food and school lunches and whatever, that's when it starts

to cause a problem. And, you know, we've seen public health decline over the same period. Yeah, you can really trace back and see the connection between the food subsidies and basically all of the health ills that we experience on a day-to-day basis as Americans. Now, you have said, and I quote that seed oils are demonic. Do you tell. Oh, boy. Yeah. So this goes back to, I actually, I think I use the word satanic.

Oh, even better. Alliteration is important. But yeah, seed oils are a problem because it's not as if like they have certain targeted effects that are like, oh, X is bad for your skin. or why is bad for your eyes or something, right? People often think about foods or vitamins or toxins in that way. Ced oils are uniquely bad because they undermine the fabric of human biology in like a very real way. Namely, they create oxidative particles, for lack of a better term.

And what that means is that these particles are highly reactive. So they steal electrons away from other molecules. And so what happens is if you have a human body, a high functioning, like a system with high integrity, and then you basically introduce a bunch of like wrecking jackhammers, right, going around and they're just like tearing tissues apart. That's what seed oils do. They're not the only thing that's toxic in this way, but they're the only thing that is consumed in such large quantities, certainly. And so because they have this effect where they like tear apart biological matter as just like, that's just like what they do, they degrade and they're produce molecules that tear apart living tissue, their ills are manifested in every single

biological system. So in the pancreas, you get diabetes, type 2 diabetes, which is very common and increasingly common and not necessarily cause from sugar alone because it's dependent on the whole insulin thing. And seed oils cause insulin resistance. That's one of their effects. You know, macular degeneration has been well studied and its connection to seed oils.

Alzheimer's as well. These oxidative byproducts build up in the brain, they tear apart brain cells, and then you get Alzheimer's. Cancer, same thing. Obesity, same thing. Skin, I think a lot of your listeners would probably be interested to hear about the cellulite connection and the acne connection. Because lo and behold, when you have oxidative stress in your skin, you get inflamed

skin, you also get cellulite because seed oils and in particular, particular omega-3s, like fish oil and like flaxseed oil, which are even more seed-oily than seed oils. Yes. Oh, we're going to get into that later because people are going to be blown away by that. Okay. So we'll get into that. We'll get into that later.

Anyway, so you get cellulite. The point is you get issues everywhere because it's not as if seed oils are like some targeted like evil toxin. It just due to the chemistry of what they are, they mess with all biological tissues, particularly mammalian, warm-blooded biological tissues. And so they cause problems. And then you get problems everywhere. And that's why I think they're just, they're so, so damn bad.

The main demographic that listens to the spillover is females 25 to 35 years old. And obviously, there are some men who listen. But predominantly, if you're listening right now, you likely fall into that age range and you're likely married. So if that's you or if you are one of the dudeservatives who loves this podcast, thank you. by the way, I'm very flattered. I have a really exciting experience to tell you about. Turning Point USA is doing a men's leadership event for the first time.

It's called The Summit, and the reason behind why we at TPUSA decided to do this is pretty simple. Now more than ever, masculinity is under attack. The Summit is physically, emotionally, and spiritually challenging. The summit pushes you to your limit and then a little further. And the mission is to revive the masculine heart and to develop purpose-driven men who are, leaders ready to serve their God, their family, and their nation. There's hiking, shooting, ice bats, camping, learning survival skills, prayer, fellowship, and of course, lots of food. Men ages 16 to 40 can sign up to attend the summit happening in cities across the United States.

You can find a location near you and get more info at summit.t.tpsa.com. They'll also help you find which summit event is going to be good for your age range. That's summit.t.t.uS.A. So whether you're a guy looking to make lasting friendships or you're a woman who happens to have a man in your life, tell him to sign up for the summit. And run through just real quick list. What is considered a seed oil? Okay. Seed oils are the oils extracted in an industrial setting from seeds in large quantities. So you take a whole bunch of seeds. You squeeze out the tiny, tiny little bit of oil in each seed. You refine it. You bleach it. You put all these solvents in it. You run through all these machines and you spit it out into these bottles and that's you know that's that's the process of seed oils then the seed oils you have to watch out for specifically um would be canola oil sunflower oil soybean oil peanut oil safflower oil um grape seed oil um grape seed oil which is another

name for canola oil um any anything is called a vegetable oil or a cooking oil um honestly the easier your way to think about it is like the oils that are not safe and the safe oils are olive oil, avocado oil sort of, coconut oil, palm oil is technically not a seed oil, and then butter, ghee, tallow, and all the animal fats. Those are safe. Anything that's not that and is a fat is not safe. Yeah. And so, and so Masa chips literally have three ingredients, which is corn, beef, tallow, and salt, right? Yes. Yeah, which is what I love. So it's like three ingredients. It's so simple. And I love that, you know, just looking at the bag and seeing literally three items. It can be that simple.

Your food can be that simple. What I love is like most corn chips, if you look at the back of them. And like now that you know this, you'll pay attention to it. You'll see like corn, salt or whatever. And then you'll see sunflower slash canola slash like safflower oil. Or they'll say and or. And it's like they don't even know which of those oils is in their food. Right? Because it's like giant factories that they're just like trucking in oils by the tanker truck full. Literally. They're talking trucking in tanker truck full loads of seed oils, dumping them in the friars, mixing them. No one cares, right? Because they're all the same crap, right? Like, imagine if someone said, oh, ingredients, sugar and or high fructose corn syrup. Right? Or like butter and or olive oil. What do you mean and or? How is it and or? You made the food. Don't you know what's in the food? But I know, they don't. They don't. They lose.

literally don't. And so it's like sunflower and or canola oil. But this is what I don't understand. If it's possible to just use butter or olive oil or ghee or whatever, beef tallow, why don't these companies? Why are they using seed oils? So I can't necessarily blame the companies too much, right? We've, I think so far it's been very like, oh, the companies are evil. Mastal chips are expensive. That's certainly true. Everyone remarks this. And it is that way because we don't use seed oils. And so it's like because not only are these ingredients cheap to produce because they're made in large quantities done mostly by automation, the government literally subsidized it. So like sunflower and like soybean oil, like the government

is like picking up the bill, right? Like lays and Doritos are cheap, not because the free market decided they were that price, but because the government is basically paying effectively lays and Doritos so that they can have lower prices. Some people would claim this is a good thing because it allows food to be cheaper. But at the same time, if the result of it is unhealthy food, then what you're basically doing is paying for poor people to be really sick, which, how is that helping anyone? But that's, I don't think anyone ever got that far cognitively. So, yeah, I mean, this is the issue, right?

Like, monster chips are expensive and Doritos are not. So like if companies want to make a lot of money, well, they're going to, I mean, one way to make a lot of money, of course, is to buy, is to make something that everyone will buy. And another way to make money is to make something that only a few people will buy, but charge more for it. Because I care about quality. Obviously, I've chosen the latter option. But it's certainly true that not everyone will be able to afford this food. So, I mean, it's easy to blame, I think, the big corporations for being evil and whatnot. But at the same time, they're responding to what.

people want. And if people are willingly of their own volition choosing to give them their money, they're supporting the whole program of that company. And so I think what's more important is for people to realize the power they have as a consumer and literally vote with their dollar and choose what they want to spend their money on and spend it accordingly. If they have beliefs about certain things, they want to see the world a certain way. Well, the only way to really do that honestly is to pay for it. And so, you know, you have, you have, you. You can't, nothing is free, basically. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I certainly think that, like, as far as Moss Chip specifically, you're concerned, we'll be able to make the price come down, you know, over time because we get bigger. That's just how business works. But they'll never be as cheap as Doritos, so is what it is. Yeah, right. Now that everybody has been talking about seed oils, I've seen all of these strategic, scientific articles that are popping up saying, you know, all of these myths about seed oils. They're unfounded. They're not bad for you. Do you think that shady entities are funding these articles?

I mean, I don't have any explicit knowledge about the source of funding today. I do have some historical context that may be useful. And so like you can, you know, come to your own conclusion. The American Heart Association was like a small little rag tag group of doctors in like the 1920s. I think it was started in 1924. They basically did nothing for a decade or so. until Procter & Gamble, who basically invented Crisco, which is more or less the first seed oil widely consumed, until Procter & Gamble gave them what in today's money would be a substantial number of millions of dollars as a grant to fund their nonprofit. And so lo and behold, the American Heart Association started publishing articles and publishing information and material suggesting that polyunsaturated fats, which are the types of fats and seed oils are good for you. I think the best source on this would be Nina Ticolz's book called The Big Fat Surprise. She really goes into the whole history of if you should interview her, honestly. Well, Nina was in the Beyond Impossible documentary. Was she not?

I don't know. I was. I didn't watch it. I think she was. I don't know. But her book's amazing, honestly. So everything I just said is literally from the pages of that book. She talks about the history of the seed oil industry and it's like collaboration basically with like the scientific establishment, which is it's highly well documented that this existed. So, you know, whether or not it still goes on, it's up to people to figure out for themselves. All right.

Well, we have to address the elephant in the room, which is obviously you go by really tan man. So what the hell do seed oils have to do with how tan you are? That's a very good question. So remember how I said that seed oils like oxidize when exposed, so when exposed to basically heat, light, and air? Yeah. Yeah. So when you eat fat, like fat goes everywhere, right?

Because your cell membranes are made of fat. You're obviously body fat, right, and your skin is made of fat. And when you eat fat, the fat you eat goes into that fat. So if you eat saturated fat, like butter or tallow, your fat is saturated. And if you eat unsaturated fat, like from seed oils, your fat is. unsaturated. And so what happens with your skin is that when you go out in the sun, it's obviously very exposed to heat and light. In particular, it's exposed to UV light, which is even more intense than normal light. And so as the sun impacts like the unsaturated fats, which come from

seed oils that are in and around and under your skin, it accelerates the process of oxidation, which causes even more inflammation than like you might normally experience from the sunlight. And so if you're full of seed oils basically and you go out in the sun, the sun will roast you, right? Because it's just rapidly accelerating inflammation, which you would already have been exposed to. And that manifests itself often in sunburn. So instead of like developing a nice tan as like humans and that's not just like Mediterranean people like I am, it's like all like everyone tans, right? To a certain extent. So instead of interrupt, instead of getting that natural tan that you would be subject to, you get burned.

And that's it. And then you get skin cancer and all these other things because of like the repeated inflammation. Do you think that sunscreen is just piling on the problem? Like is that terrible? Sunscreen is so terrible. Like it's terrible for you because like all of the sunscreens are made full of like carcinogenic chemicals. Like I think I'm sure you saw the thing like about last year where a whole bunch of companies I think like Johnson Johnson or someone else had to like pull a bunch of sunscreens because they have all this carcinogenic stuff in them. And it's like, oh, wow, we just found out. Oh, yeah, sure, we just found out. And so you absorb all that stuff. The second thing is that, like, you actually need sunlight to be healthy.

So, like, the sunscreen blocking this UV is causing you to be unhealthy and it, like, messes with your hormones. And it doesn't allow you your body to internalize, like, the concept of summer, right? So, like, we're meant to experience life seasonally. And so if you're never really exposing yourself to full summer, then it's going to throw off your whole internal, like, long-term. cycle. In the same way that like not fully embracing winter throws off that site, but that's a whole other discussion. I love that. I love that though. We're meant to experience life seasonally. Yeah, I mean, you sleep, right? You wake up. You go to sleep. That's a 24 hour cycle. But we also experience a 365 day one. At least most people whose ancestry is not completely equatorial.

Their ancestors experience seasons for like millions of whatever, thousands of generations. And so just like you sleep at night to recover, like the wintertime should be spent resting and recovering so that you can be more active and like farm and like go to war or whatever in the spring, summer and fall. Yeah, so that's true. But regarding the tanning or regarding sunscreen, so yeah, it adds toxins to your system. It takes away the health giving properties of the sun. And it's like smells terrible and it's like disgusting for the oceans and like the fish. and like the reefs and whatever. And it's like people want to eat their nice fish, right?

Well, what are you going to do when all the fish are dead? Because all you people brought like plastic carcinogens into the ocean and then like the reefs died, right? It's disgusting. So yeah, if you need to not get full sun exposure, which is certainly possible. Or if you're on the boat all day or whatever, you're out in the sun all day and you haven't been exposed to it since like last summer, you should just get in the shade and like wear clothes, like white linen, you know, like people used to.

to white-lidded. Yeah, well, speaking of clothes, polyester is an 80% of the clothes that we wear. And it's used in the majority of the brands that women love like Lulu Lemon and Athleta and Adidas and New Balance. What I didn't know is that when we wash these clothes, hundreds of thousands of microplastics are released. And basically, the clothes we're wearing to work out are destroying our health as women. Yeah, absolutely, right? So, like, plastics have the unique property of being able to disrupt hormones. So, like, because the plastic molecules look like the hormone molecules, presence of plastic often tricks the body into thinking that there's the presence of that hormone.

And so when you have, it's like if you're taking, like, exogenous hormones, like hormones that don't come from within your body, your body will experience hormone changes. As people who've undergone hormone therapy are taking birth control, absolutely know. This effect is real. And so plastics are like an inadvertent source. of like hormones from outside your body. And what's particularly dangerous about like fake hormones,

this needs to call like xenoestrogens because most of them mimic estrogen. What's particularly dangerous about sex hormones is that they have the unique ability to like enter the cell's nucleus. So if we all remember from like biology class, you have the cell membrane on the outside of the cell, a lot of proteins and nutrients, whatever go back and forth. But the cell nucleus is where the DNA is. And the DNA is kept under like lock and key, basically.

And so the nucleus, the nuclear membrane around the nucleus itself has a pretty strict entry-exit policy because only the most important, you know, only the need to know top secret security clearance substances should come in contact with DNA because that's the most important thing we have. Sex hormones about, you know, reproduction obviously are implicated in like DNA replication. And so sex hormones have the ability to pass through the nuclear membrane and cause changes to DNA. And so chemicals that mimic sex hormones can get into.

your cell nuclei and screw with your DNA. And plastics are, you know, sex hormone mimicking materials. So all of this stuff is like not only like in your body, it's a toxin. It's like messing with your DNA and your epigenome and then you have kids and all like absolute nightmare. Plastics are completely destructive. I would recommend the book Estrogeneration by Dr. Anthony Jay, if you want to learn more about this kind of thing. But yeah, plastics are terrible. And the problem is, right, because we absorb everything that our skin touches. So women have. this like even worse because all of the plastic clothes they have are skin tight right and they're gym and they're sweating so you got heat and water involved and so the the dissolving of plastic

into your bloodstream is even accelerated um okay so our lulu lemon is killing us what kind of clothes are we supposed to wear when we're working out blue lemon is canceled for sure i mean so my fiance so marina wool is a great material because it offers some of the stretchingness properties and some of the moisture wicking properties of like classic athletic clothing. And it comes from sheep, right? It's great. So I love the brand like icebreaker. Like it's like icebreaker New Zealand or something. And they make all their clothes from like New Zealand sheep. So my fiance has like leggings that like are made of marina wool. And it's not as if they're more expensive than Lulu Lemon. I'll tell you that. Like well it's so expensive. It's such dirt garbage. And so yeah, they're tight. It's moisture wicking. It's like it's great.

And I mean, you could also wear like loose cotton shorts. The, I think she has some cashmere like sports bra type situations going on. Cotton is great. Marino wool is great. Silk is great. Cajmir is great. So, yeah, I mean, the clothes thing is hilarious because like all of these like considered luxury materials are not even that much more expensive than like the fancy like plastic brands.

Well, I mean, now that you bring it up, yeah, you're absolutely right. when I'm thinking about the prices. It's outrageous. It is stressful. Going to the grocery store today and seeing those prices rack up on your receipt and then have to go home and feed your family with really not that much. And then you're back to the store again,

spending more money again. And it's just this cycle of stress and feeling like how am I going to provide healthy meals for my family? Well, what I love about good ranchers is that you don't have to worry about that. And they're actually helping you not only get better quality food and meat for your family, but saving money as well. I have Ben and Corley Spell here with me today from Good Ranchers in person

to tell me how does Good Ranchers help people save money on their meat, and yet you're giving them way better quality food. There's practically no waste due to spoilage, because when you go to the grocery store, you buy a big pack of chicken, well, you either have to cook all of it or you have to throw it out, right? Right. So with us, every piece of chicken is individually wrapped. Every piece of meat that we sell is actually prepared for chefs. Everything that comes in our box is ready to be put the skillet, putting this dough, put it on the grill, and you're going to eat every single bit of it. How do your prices compare at good ranchers compared to other big box meat brands? If you compare us to like Omaha steaks, we're on average about 40% cheaper, just pound

for pound. We're giving us superior quality. So we want to save people time from going to the grocery store, and we want to take the guesswork out of the grocery store. And I can't tell you how nice it is to go to the grocery store and all you have to worry about are the sides, like the vegetables and what you're going to serve with your meat, and you just know your meat is in the freezer. That's right. Making life easier and also making your meals more affordable. Good Ranchers.com slash Clark with CodeClark. That's good ranchers.com slash Clark with Code Clark. You'll get $30 off or just click the link in the description. Should we be incorporating superfoods into our diet like seymost gel and kombucha? Like, no.

The only superfoods you need are like raw honey, like meat, animal, like high quality meat, animal organs, high-quality dairy, and that's where all your nutrient density is going to come from. How are omega-3 fats worse than seed oils? Okay, so I don't know if I can keep this brief. Basically, because seed oils oxidize, right, we know this. There's a chemistry reason. You can check out my substack for an actual article describing this if you're that interested, which is really taman.

Dot substack.com, I think. So seed oils, there's these long chains. of like hydrocarbons. And so they have little breaks in the chain. And at those little break points, that's where the molecules like oxidize and degrade. And then they break apart and then they go around, you know, screwing with all of your tissues. So omega-3s have even more of those little breakage points. And so there's more links in the chain where they can break apart. So they oxidize even faster. And they produce more oxidation byproducts. So this would be, of course, your cold water fish, fish oils and flax seeds, chia seeds and flaxseed and chia seed oil.

So they're like seed oils on steroids. And they turn to plastic when they're exposed to air. Oh my gosh. Oil-based paint. You know, oil-based paint, Michelangelo, right? Yeah. Ringingy bells. Oil-based paint was made from flaxseed oil.

I did not know that. Ew. Yeah. Yeah. It's called linseed oil. Like they change the names like when it's a food, right? They just changed the name. So it sounds like it's not an industrial chemical.

But it used to be called linseed oil. It's now called flaxseed oil. And it hardens, right? In air, it turns into plastic. It's what happens when you eat omega-3s, they end up in your body fat. What happens? What is the plastic-y thing in your body fat right under your skin that every woman is familiar with? Plastic-y thing under our skin?

Yeah, like it's hard, wrinkly, like little solid-y-looking, like aberrations under skin. Oh, cellulite? Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. Okay. All right. All the things to avoid.

Okay. Now, I always see the word gum listed in ingredients. Stuff, gums, this gum, that gum, is that another thing that we need to watch out for? Is that harmless? I wouldn't say it's harmless. It's not the worst thing ever, but I would avoid. Like, a lot of the gums mess with, like, people's microbiomes and cause, like, gut dysbiosis. Honestly, none of the good foods have this stuff in any way.

Like, real ice cream is even better than, like, the fake chemical ice cream with all the gums in it. Oh, you know what I just ordered? What I just got is trying for the first time branch out randomly is the Alex ice cream, A-L-E-C-S, the A-2 ice cream. Have you ever tried that? I haven't tried it yet, but I've seen it. And it's like regenerative milk. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm excited about that. By the way, speaking of raw milk, okay, so raw milk is labeled in all these states. It's dangerous for human consumption. But you think that people should drink it anyway. why is pasteurized milk the norm and raw milk is this scary evil thing that people need to look out for? Sure. Real briefly, like cows are supposed to live out in the grass, in the pastures, in the countryside. That's when they're healthy and then it's when their milk is healthy.

And for thousands of years up until the Industrial Revolution, that's how milk was produced. When people started moving into cities and the Industrial Revolution to work at factories, you couldn't bring the cows with you easily in fields because there's no fields in the cities. And because of refrigeration didn't exist, you can't keep the cows out there and truck the milk in. So they put the cows in warehouses, like in Brooklyn, in New York, for example, and they fed them just like whatever trash they had lying around because there's no grass. And so lo and behold, the milk that the cows made was now toxic because they were keeping cows in a warehouse and feeding the garbage. Part of that issue was that they had a lot of gross bacteria growing in the milk. And so they decided instead, of course, like fixing the diet of the cows, putting them back out on the land.

like they're supposed to be. If you just boil the milk, you kill the bacteria, it's fine. And it is fine in the sense that it won't instantly kill you, but you lose all of the nutritional qualities of good milk, right? It's like a useless, gross, disgusting food. That just happens to not kill you instantly. So because the dairy producers could no longer be sued, everyone sort of was happy with this. And then by the time, refrigeration was invented, which could have solved this problem because you could keep the milk out in the countryside and then under refrigeration sent it into the city, pasteurization industry was basically already set in stone with like a legally enforced monopoly through like our friends at the

FDA or USDA to to keep pasteurization required. And so now here we are like 100 years later basically and only now, only in the past decade or two of our states like reversing the wholesale ban on raw milk because when it's produced right, it's obviously very beneficial. And we're able to do this now because of like modern technology that like allows us to transport milk farther from where it was initially made. Are you familiar with Ballerina Farm? Oh, yeah. My fiancé loves her.

Okay, yeah. So she's fantastic. And every time Ballerina Farm is posting her kids, milking a cow and just drinking straight from the pale, she's getting thousands of comments of people like, that's not safe. Your children, they're in danger. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, they can just wait and see how her children turn out in contrast to their children and see who's better off. Mike drop. I love that. Okay, rumor on the street is, Tan Man, that you don't wash your hands. Is that true? Oh, you really did your research. I don't not wash my hands ever. I just don't wash them that frequently, and I don't use, like, chemical or antibacterial soap. Like, the soaps we have, I have a hand soap that's, like, it's basically made of olive oil. And, like, that's kind of it. It's like olive oil turned into soap. And I'll wash my hands when they get really dirty. and then for showering, I have like a tallow-based soap that we get from a farmer nearby.

It smells amazing. And you don't feel sticky at all. No, I'm great. I'm good. Obviously, you can't smell from over there. I'll take your word for you. I mean, you are engaged, so you can't smell that bad. You know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I mean, I just, like antibiotics in my hands, like your hands have a natural, healthy bacteria on them, right? Just like the rest of your skin. And that's good. It protects you from bad bacteria. And also, like, the soaps have fragrances that also fragrances disrupt your hormones. So, like, that really screws with me. So the soaps have artificial fragrances. And it absorbs, right? Everything that touches your skin is absorbed. So, yeah, I, like, wash them in frequently. Why are healthy, beautiful women rubbing beef fat on their skin? Tallow is a magical, a magical substance. So obviously your skin has oil on it and so most skin hydration products, I'm sure you're familiar with contains some kind of oil.

And the problem is most of those oils in most skincare products are seed oils, even though they have creative names like Jajoba seed oil or whatever. Yeah, it's like a hobba or whatever it is. Hohoba, yeah, whatever is. But like even fat is saturated fat. It's the same fat found in cows or other similar animals. So if we want to be putting fat into our skin or into our system, we should be eating and applying the type of fat that we naturally have. And so tallow is a good example of such a fat.

And it has the added benefit of being rich and naturally occurring vitamin A. Vitamin A has a lot of different names, so people are probably familiar with it as being the same. Like, it's retinol is a synthetic form of vitamin A. That's how most people are familiar with it. It's like some retinoric acid, something, something or other. Vitamin A is the skin vitamin. It allows you to have strong, smooth, moisturized skin, free of acne and whatever else.

So when you're vitamin A deficient skin problems develop. And so TALA is great because it's got the right kind of fat. It has no chemical, weird, plastic garbage, which you already talked about. And it's got a lot of naturally occurring vitamin A. And it's relatively cheap and it smells great. My friend Van Man has like my preferred towel. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

There's Tan Man and Van Man. What is this guy doing? There's a fan man. Yeah, yeah, on Twitter, you can find him. He has a good time over there. And he has a massively successful, like, tallow balm and, like, other healthy skincare cosmetic company. Okay, cool.

Perfect. And so, yes, that's why pretty girls are going to be fat on their skin. Okay, now, this was something that I found really interesting that you had tweeted about. You believe that some of the worst things that we could ever put in our mouth. These are, like, random food items, okay? Food, I'm saying in quotes. you think that some of the worst things that we could possibly eat are Ritz crackers, Skittles, stove top stuffing, coffee, make creamer, maraschino, cherries.

What is the deal with them besides? Oh, that's my Twitter thread that all of those foods are illegal in other countries. Oh, and that's the one that did really well. Okay, okay. So they all have ingredients that are illegal everywhere else but America. Yeah, well, some of them are illegal in Europe, some of them are illegal in China, whatever. And obviously it's not all the ingredients in all of them, but all of those things contain things, which are illegal in some countries that care about health far more than we do.

And I think some people get very discouraged about this kind of thing. Oh, I can't eat anything. And I get these comments a lot. And that's not really true. Like, it's as ironic, because my entire dietary philosophy is, like, eat everything. Just make sure it's actual food, right? You know, crackers get crackers that are made with, like, sourdough dough and, like, organic sourdough flour. like sourdough fermented flour and like butter right and salt eat crackers right eat cherries eat

make your own bread crumbs from sourdough bread like dry it out and crumble it up or like fine brands obviously there's not that many of them but fine brands that make them in this way um if you want candy there's so many good chocolate brands out there so many good chocolate brands it's it's incredible um and like if you want little gummy bears you can make gelatin right at home with fruit juice and like gelatin which comes from like grass fed cows it's like that's an amazing dessert. Now, are you a Hugh chocolate fan or no? Because I am obsessed. I like you. I like you chocolate. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. Cool. The mint one. The mint one is really my favorite. Yeah. All right. So what should a seed oil-free diet look like on a daily basis? Breakfast, lunch,

dinner. Just give me an example of meals. Yeah, okay. I'll tell you what I had today. So that should be easy. I had pasteurized eggs fried in butter with sourdough toast. from like the bread guy that I'm very fortunate enough to live near because otherwise I'd have to be go well I'd have mea making bread but regardless um we'd have to be it being here on bread so I had toast with raw grass fed butter and we had like a um a pasture raised pork sweet Italian sausage from a farm that we get at the farmer's market on Sundays um I also had some organic tangerines that I got at Whole Foods and a glass of raw milk for lunch I had We add nachos with mossa chips, of course, and grass-fed ground beef with salt, sauteed onions, and some like local organic salsa from a farm at the farmer's market. For dinner, I don't know what we're having, but a typical thing would be like baked, a little or roasted like potatoes, carrots, and onions, some kind of steak or some kind of ground beef or like a sausage, like all meat from like some local farm.

they're baked and fried in olive oil or butter. And for dessert, we'll probably have some romuluk ice cream from one of the Amish farms that we get deliveries from. Wow. Okay. Yeah. See, and I think people just get really freaked out because they do just get very nervous about the amount of money that some of this food costs like you were talking about. So what is your advice to people that are worried about like, well, I can't shop exclusively organic or raw or whatever because it's too much. I have a whole article on my substack addressing this as well, if you're interested, like how to do this cheaply.

And I mean, it's not going to be cheap, right? Like, that's just is what it is. Like, you have to understand that what you're doing is like not going to the hospital and being sick like every year once you start turning 32, right? You, like, I have, I don't, well, I had health insurance on my last job because it was, and it was amazing, like, tech bro insurance. and I didn't use it. I'm like, I don't need to go to the doctor, right?

And like, I don't really have a health insurance at the moment, but I don't really have anything good, but I don't use it. I don't need it because, right, like, I don't have to go to the doctor. So understand that it's not, like, you have to think about your budgeting and, like, you have to zoom out, basically. And the second thing I would say is that people spend a lot of money on things that are not contributing to their health or happiness.

I think the average American woman spends 300, over $300 a month on cosmetics and makeup, like a month. Guilty. Yeah, I mean, and if you can afford it, whatever, I mean, I personally, I'm not the biggest fan of makeup for health and other reasons, but we need to get into that. But the point is if you can afford it, go ahead, but like, what's more important to you, your makeup or your food?

And that's like, that's a choice people have to make for themselves if they're budget restrained. If you're not, great, buy whatever you want. But if you are constrained, you have to make that choice. Also, going out to eat, right? You can spend $70 like on a dinner for two and it's like terrible and it's cooking seed oils. Or $70 will be probably an entire day or maybe two days. No, it's probably like a day and a half of eating for me and my fiance.

Right. Versus one meal. And so yeah, cook a lot. And also you can buy stuff in bulk. You can buy half a cow stick in the freezer, right? Like that's the thing you can do. And the price per pound of that beef is like very cheap. So those are my summary tips for the costing.

I think that's great. Okay, so as we wrap up here while I have you, so Ancient Crunch is your company that makes and distributes Massa Chips. I have to please request that Ancient Crunch will start making pretzels because I cannot find pretzels without seed oils. I've looked everywhere. I've looked on Thrive Market everywhere. There is nothing.

It doesn't exist. I haven't heard the pretzel request. Wait, there's one pretzel brand that looks like. like Lord of the Rings. Do you know what I'm talking about? No. It's like green and it has like gold lettering. I'll send it to you after. I think I've seen their agreements. It's not terrible. I'll let you go. But regardless, point taken, I will, I will take that upstairs and we'll consider it. Okay. So you guys are looking to expand. Ancient Crunch will be everyone's go-to snack company to get all of their seed oil-free snacks.

I'm guessing you're not stopping with tortilla chips. I can't confirm nor deny, but maybe. Okay. That's good. Okay. I'll take that as. a little hint. Okay, so where can people buy Masa chips? Because I love them. I cannot stress enough. And by the way, this isn't like a paid sponsorship interview or whatever. I genuinely love the product and had to have Steven on because I'm in love with it. And I just think it's doing amazing things for the world. So where can they buy them? Cool. Well, if you live in Los Angeles, you can get them at Arawon. And if you live anywhere else, you can get them online at Masa chips.com, M-A-C-H-I-P-S dot com.

And yeah, that's... Are they also on Amazon now? They are, sort of. We're working on that. They are, but it's like we're trying to not tell people about it so we can slowly build up our capacity to, or Amazon's capacity to, like, fulfill those orders. But, yeah, technically, by the time people listen to this,

and whatever, sure, you can also get it on Amazon. Perfect. I cannot thank you enough. Thank you so much, Tan Man, for coming on this phil. over sharing your wealth of knowledge on seed oils. This has been super fun. And I know that my audience is going to eat this up. Literally, no pun intended. No pun intended they're going to eat it up. You didn't plan that one out, did you? I did it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Alex. It's been great. Meat is murder, but veganism is genocide. What a quote. I know he said he wasn't the original

person who said it, but that really piqued my interest. I think I'd enjoy doing an entire episode in the future with an expert who can just debunk the plant-based industry and vegetarianism in general. So keep an eye open for that. One thing that Tan Man didn't bring up is that he has created a seed oil card that you can hand out whenever you go out to help the kitchen at whatever restaurant you're at, understand what they can cook your food in and what they shouldn't. It's free. And I'll put a link in the description.

It's not something that you would like hand out at a Chick-fil-A, but if you're at a nice restaurant, they should ask you when you're seated, hey, does anybody have any allergies or sensitivities, and you can say seed oils. So I will link that in the description so you can print it out, you can keep them in your purse. It's just a really easy way for people in the kitchen to be like, okay, this is what a seed oil is, this is what they can't have, this is what's acceptable to cook their food in. Very helpful. Also, I do have a discount code for Masa chips. If you want to try them, I will link that in the show notes with the code that you need to use. Next week, I have another episode on part with this one. I am talking to a video.

big influencer in the health and wellness space. She is openly Christian and conservative. A ton of you follow her. She was canceled recently for her stance on traditional marriage by a very popular non-toxic brand. And her and I discuss our thoughts on the biggest wellness trends at the moment from bee pollen to coffee enemas. You will be obsessed and it is a no-taker episode for sure. That comes out next Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific or midnight Eastern, depending on where you live.

Subscribe to Poplittics on your. YouTube so that you can watch these episodes every week. I'm Alex Clark and this is the spillover. Love you mean, it. Bye.