Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “My Down Syndrome Son Has Superpowers.” - Adoption & Special Needs Parenting With Alan Lawrence

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

When Alan Lawrence from @thatdadblog discovered his baby boy was born with Down Syndrome, he was crushed. Very quickly, he soon realized his son would become one of the biggest blessings for his family. Alex Clark and Alan discuss the peaks and valleys of special needs parenting, and the ins and outs of adoption. With two adopted kids, one domestic and one international (who has no idea she's about to be adopted!) – Alan's perspective on fatherhood will offer hope while making you laugh &...

In honor of Father's Day this weekend, I wanted to invite a dad on who, I believe, has one of the most touching, inspiring, and captivating stories. After experiencing infertility, my guest and his wife, who have been married for 28 years, decided to adopt their first child. From there, their family just kept getting bigger. Six kids later, and being blessed with a son who has Down syndrome, they are now in the process of adopting a 14-year-old girl in Columbia who has no. No idea. The story will move you to tears. And I have been wanting to do an episode that focuses on adoption and the peaks and valleys of special needs parenting. And I thought immediately of this guest, who I've watched through his viral family vlogs and posts for years.

Their family's content and stories have been shared everywhere, international media outlets, the BBC, the Today Show, all kinds of stuff. And this week on the spillover discussing all things fatherhood, national. Navigating domestic and international adoption and the blessing of seeing the world through the eyes of someone with Down syndrome is blogger, vlogger and photographer, Alan Lawrence from That Dad Blog. I have followed your family for years, I feel like, definitely the last several years. And I think that you are one of the most fun, adventurous and creative dads on the Internet. Thank you. I like that one. Oh, I just, I love your content. And I know that you've been written about in everywhere from time to the BBC, which is crazy. You've had all this viral success just kind of documenting what it's like being a dad. And so I just have to tell you, I think I wanted to have you on for Father's Day because I knew your story would blow people away. I'm excited. I'm excited. We finally got to meet because I've been following you forever. And we feel really blessed to have that voice on different platforms and media outlets to share about fatherhood. And, and about having a child with special needs and a big family and all those fun things.

And so we just like to wrap it all up in a big fun package and send it out to people. Well, you've got six kids. Six kids right now. One with Down syndrome who loves drinking ketchup. I need to know why there is not a reality show about your family. I don't know. We get people asking that all the time. And, you know, I think that's what the blog is for, but who knows, right?

And it's just like so many things. People are like asking us all the time. They're like, are you planning this stuff or like this? And I'm like, this is our, this is our life, guys. This is every day. This is happening, you know. And so having a big family, you just have to welcome those kind of things all the time, you know. Well, that's what's interesting about your content is that I think that there are YouTube

vlogging families and all this stuff where everything is planned on what's going to go viral, what's going to do well. Whereas you kind of post things about your family in real time as they're happening. We're like, this is a really cute or funny or endearing moment with my kids. Yeah, it's been really, you know, every day is different. And I have ADD. And so I'm the most unorganized person. And so a lot of times it's just like having the camera out and going.

And, you know, all of my kids have so unique personalities, each one of them so unique. And so it's just like, I don't have to make up this stuff. But that's what I like. Every person in your family, it's like they have a character. But it's very natural. Like Nikki is very much her own person, your wife. And then each of your kids, I'm like, oh, this is this person, this person. makes it so fun. Your content is so fun. And I want to talk about so much things with your family.

Okay. So we have to go to the beginning, which is how you and your wife, Nikki, met and got together. So Nikki and I met, probably not the most romantic way we met, but we both were working at McDonald's and just happened to see her and thought, you know what, this is a pretty beautiful girl. And I'm going to ask her out. And so I went to ask her out and apparently she, another guy, had beat me to the punch. And she was like, oh, you know, I'd love to go out with you, but I'm going out with Tim. He asked me out on Saturday. And so I said to her, well, just tell him you're going out with me. And she's like, I don't know how to do that. I'm like, tell him you're washing your hair. And so she went and told Tim, she's like, I'm washing my hair, I can't go out with you.

And so Nikki right away was like, that's the thing I loved about you, it's just kind of your confidence. And so anyways, so I waited until she was 16 to marry her, but to go out with her. And so we kind of got married young. Like I was barely 20 and she was not quite 18 when we got married. Oh my God. The tea. Typical Utah family, I guess, right? Typical marriage in Utah.

But anyways, yeah, that's kind of our love story, how we met and got together. And that was, you know, 27 years ago. And here we are now. And here we are now. Your big family started with adoption, actually. What led up to that decision? What was going on in the dynamics of your Nikki's relationship? Yeah, so great question. So Nikki and I both come from big families. I had five siblings. She did as well. And so it was kind of one of those things like as we were dating, we're like, things started to progress and we're like, so you like big families?

And you're like, yeah, I'm like, okay, we can keep this relationship going. And so as we were soon after we were married, we wanted to start our family and soon discovered that, He had PCOS, and we were working through that. And so for five years, we tried different infertility things and issues to try to start our family and just felt really strongly that we needed to look into adoption. And so we went down that road. And within, it's kind of unique. Within a year, we had a birth mom come forward who was looking to place her daughter.

And that's how we started our family. And so kind of a unique circumstance because we didn't think we would ever have children biologically. And so adoption was like this perfect way of starting our family. And we got, we have an open adoption as well with our daughter's birth mom. And then a year after we had our daughter placed in our home, Nikki miraculously was able to get pregnant. And the Lord just wanted us to start our family through adoption. And so that's how it all started. And then now we're six kids in and who knows what will happen, right? That's very unique to have an open adoption where the mom was like, sure, absolutely, I'm going to place my child for adoption and, you know, be involved

and let them get to know me. Is she somebody who consistently has been a part of your daughter's life? Absolutely. Yeah. We feel really blessed to have an open adoption with her. And it's so much as like we've, like our daughter has gone on vacation with her birth mom and we're really good friends and are able to communicate with them, which I think is so helpful for our daughter to kind of have that background and to be able to meet with her and feel comfortable with her. But yeah, it's definitely something that's very unique in adoption to have an open adoption like that. And so how old was she whenever Nikki found out she was pregnant for the first time? So Gracie was, let's see, she was born in 2002, and so two years, she was two when our son was born, Zaccardi. Okay. And so walk us through

the ages of all of your kids and they're different personnel. Okay. So Gracie is, she's 20, and she is, she's our introvert, super smart, book smart, photographic memory. Zucardi is our outgoing, very confident kid. He loves doing all things that are dangerous, like dirt biking, all those sorts of things, and just very charismatic. And then Nicholas, he is, so Zach is 18. Nicholas is 16. And he's kind of a mix of all things. He's got a big heart, kind of likes to be a little rebellious and fun. And he's an amazing chef. And then Ali, our 14 year old, she is just a sassy. Let me tell you something about Ali. Allie is probably my favorite. I think she is one of the

funniest teenagers ever. She just has the biggest heart and like every day is so unique with her. Like she's just like she needs her. She is definitely one that needs her on talk shows. Yes. Like absolutely. She to me, she is a star. Like when I see her kids on social media, I mean, so many of them have interesting personalities

and I love all of them for different reasons. But Allie just sticks out to me. I'm like, this girl is a star. Like she should be on television shows and stuff. She's just so unique. Her comedic timing is unique. Her perspective. I feel like she's very wise for her age.

Yeah. And the unique thing about her is like she's had challenges with, you know, like weight and different things and feeling good in her own skin and different things like that. But she's been able to just really kind of fall into like the confidence and wanting to present herself in a way of like just being happy with who she is. And so she's done that in such a fun way. through her humor and it's just been fun to watch her grow that way. So yeah, Ali's always great. Oh, you have to always be ready for the one-liners coming out of Ali. And then so after, after Ali was born, we thought we were done. Like we didn't think we'd have any other kids. And so there's a five-year gap between Ali and Will. And so it was really interesting. One day we were just in the house and we,

you know, we thought we were done with all our kids. And I remember just sitting there thinking to Nikki, I'm like, okay, we got all the kids. Let's pull them into dinner with having dinner around the table and and I said, is this everybody to Nikki? And she's like, yeah, everybody's here. And I'm like, I feel like we're missing someone. And she's like, oh, no, here we go. She knew that that was baby fever. Yeah, that was baby fever.

And so not soon after that, Will join our family. And so Will is nine. And he is just, I mean, he's incredible. Like Will has blessed our family in so many unique ways. Like we had no idea that Will had Down syndrome before he was born. and I mean it's a long story about just coming in and understanding what a blessing having will in our family would be and and kind of the start of like me originally learning that he had Down syndrome and and feeling you know just I guess a lot of like selfish pride

you know and kind of diving into the unknowns of like what that meant to have a child with Down syndrome and I spent a lot of time just focusing on the negative and we can have a I'd like to share a lot more about that. Oh, yes, we are. After you give us the whole, you know, breakdown of the kids, I have a lot of will questions. Okay, great. And so then Rocco, who is almost eight, he is our little spunk. He's like got a great, he's got a great, he's like a little, a miniature version of Nikki, right?

And he's just so cute and he's our little elf. We call him our little elf. And he is, am I wrong in this and thinking he, is very, like a sentimental child. Oh, yeah, very much so. Okay. Yeah, very much so. Like, we just got a text from someone, a neighbor who's watching him.

And she was feeding him breakfast. And he's like, oh, this breakfast is so great. Thank you so much. You're such a great mom. You know, that sort of thing. He's just very endearing that way. So I love that. Okay.

So how familiar were you with Down syndrome before having Will? I knew nothing about Down syndrome. Like you didn't know anyone else? in your personal life, you'd never grown up with people that had it or anything. No interaction with anyone at all. Like, I didn't even know what it meant to have Down syndrome. I didn't know if people with Down syndrome would speak, what that meant, right? And so when Will was born, or, well, I'll back up a little bit. Like, a month before he was born, I had this strong impression that he was going to be different than our other children. And I wasn't quite sure what that meant.

And so I remember just working at my computer and I felt this strong feeling that your son will is going to be different than your other kids. And I thought, great, he's going to be a leader. He's going to be some, you know, some attribute that's just different from the kids. And then a couple weeks later, I got this very distinct feeling that he was going to be born with Down syndrome. And which is very rare because, like I said, I didn't know anyone with Down syndrome. I'd know what that meant. And so, and it was just very strong impression. And so in my mind, that was God just kind of giving me this like precursor, you know,

You know, just like helping me to kind of like lean into that. But I kind of let it go. I asked Nikki, I'm like, so you're a little bit older. Like, what are the chances of our son being born with Down syndrome? And how old was she when she was pregnant with Will? She was 35 when she was pregnant with Will. And so, you know, I asked her, like, what are the chances of that? And she's like, well, the doctor didn't feel like there was any, you know, prenatal tests that need to be done or anything like that.

So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to let that go. And didn't tell Nikki about this kind of feeling that I was having. having. And then when Will was born, I remember they brought him over to the table and they're like cleaning him off. And I'm like one of these dads that I like to get right there when my kids are born because I have this like anxiety. Like I want them. The first thing they see is to see me. Right. So I'm like pushing nurses out of the way. I'm like leaning in there. And and he opened his eyes and I could tell right away that he had Down syndrome. And I just felt like my whole world was rocked at that point. And I just, I even remember asking the nurse, I was like, oh, I think you need to put that more, that liquid in his eyes.

Maybe his eyes are a little swollen. And she's like, no, he's good. He's, we're done. And I'm just looking at him. And I remember just feeling like my, everything was done. Like, you know, just like this complete, like darkness coming over me because I was like rolling into this emotions of like, what does this mean for our family? And who was the first person to acknowledge him having Down syndrome to the other between you and your wife? So as I'm looking at him and, and, you know, I'm this, I'm this photographer.

I'm taking all these pictures. And then when I realized he had Down syndrome, I was kind of like going into this pause mode. And I remember the nurse coming over and saying to the doctor, I'm noticing some attributes. And that's all they said. And the doctor said, yeah, I can see those as well. We'll have to talk about that. And that was like a confirmation for me. And then they brought Will over to my wife and placed him on her chest.

And then they started to talk to us about Down syndrome. and I remember it was really interesting because I'm just like dwelling on all these bad things, all these unknowns and you know what this might might be how this might impact me, you know, like this selfish side of me. And I remember Nikki thinking or saying to me like he has Down syndrome. And she was saying, but he's healthy. He's here. And he's our baby.

And God has blessed us with this baby. So we'll figure this out. And I know I'm like just thinking, okay, whatever, you know, and going through that. And so then it wasn't until like it took me a good few weeks before I started to come into like recognize them what a blessing will was going to be for our family and for myself. And it was kind of unique. We're in the hospital before we had left the hospital. I remember listening to Nikki talking on the phone with with people who were asking about will. you know and she's she's like saying oh he's this way he's his hair color's this and his eye

colors this and he's got down syndrome and he's got this and it's just going on very matter of fact yeah like it was not a big deal not a big deal and i remember just after she got off the phone i'm like how can you just rattle that off like it's his hair color and and and and and why are you not crying and she turned to me in her sweet loving little way um she's a very non-confrontational person and And she said, why are you crying? Like, God has blessed us with this baby. There are some things that are in our control and some things that are out of our control. So let's just take this one step at a time and we'll learn about it and just love what's happening.

And love the moment right now. Love that you have a baby boy right in front of you. And that was my kind of first slap on the face of like opening my heart and realizing what a blessing this was going to be for our family. Did she have experience with people with special needs before? No, same thing, just did not know anything about Down syndrome or know anyone with Down syndrome. And so we were both kind of walking into this new chapter in our lives, her with more of an open heart, and me understanding that the Lord was blessing me with the son with Down syndrome, but also helping me to become a better person through my son having Down syndrome. And so, yeah, it was really interesting. And, you know, here's Nikki going through everything, a mom that had just given birth and now trying to babysit this husband who was trying to work through his selfish mindset.

And I remember one thing she said to me that really struck me and kind of started opening my heart even more is, you know, I always mentioned like, oh, I'm going to be so sad when my kids move out. And, you know, because I love being a dad and I love being a kid with my kids. And she said, I'm going to tell you this. Christmas is always going to be magical with Will. Yeah. And I remember just sobbing after she said that. And that's like when my heart started to open. And of course, when our kids came in to see Will and like right before they come in,

I'm like feeling like this dad, I've got to prepare them for this, you know. And so right before they come in, I'm like, guys, just so you know Will has Down syndrome. And they're like, okay, what does that mean? And I'm like, well, it means, you know, like he might kind of have some mannerisms and behaviors like a kid for most of his life. And they're like, heck yes. That's great. Cool. Let's go see him. Why are we in here? Let's go do this. And I was just like watching them go in. They're like, they don't care. You know, they're just going to love him for who he is, for who he is. And that's just like me, again, starting to be like, Alan, you need to wake up and just start listening to your kids.

Your kids are going to teach you so much. And so that was the beginning of just kind of like seeing the beauty of having a child with special needs and how it's going to bless our family. Walk us through some of those initial milestones that you reach with a child with Down syndrome and how that might be different than parenting like a neurotypical kid, I guess. Is that the right way to say? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So that is, I mean, when you talk about milestones, that's definitely something as a parent with a child who has special needs that you just you know, you kind of throw your expectations out the window and, you know, comparison is going to be the thief of joy for sure because every kid is different.

Like there's different spectrums with Down syndrome. Okay. Talk about that. Yeah. So you have children that are going to be in Down syndrome that are, that you would say are, what's the term I'm looking for? Like highly functioning? Yeah, a little higher functioning. So you're going to have kids with Down syndrome that are a lot higher functioning.

And then you also have kids that could have a dual diagnosis. So some kids with Down syndrome could have autism and Down syndrome. Really? I don't think I need that. Yeah. And so there's just a lot of, like I said, a different spectrum with Down syndrome. And so Will is more on the higher functioning side. And so, you know, like walking and different things like that, I would say, Nikki could direct me more, but like they're a year or two behind.

Okay. typical children, what we'd call typical children, right? And so Will potty trained when he was four, which actually is really unique because, like, so, well, and I'm going to back up a little bit too, because Nikki was feeling very inspired after Will was born because there's this huge gap between Allie and Will. And she was, she's thinking, you know, Will's going to need a little protector, a little brother to kind of guide and go with him through school and all the different things. and that was truly divine because Will, like Will potty trained at four, and everyone asks us, how did you guys do this? What is the secret? And I'm like, Rocco, Rockwell is the secret. Like,

get yourself a Rocco. You know what? Because Will basically just wanted to, everything his little brother was doing is what he would want to do. So he's mentoring, right? And that, and that is something that was a really sweet, like reminder for us about why inclusion is so important for these kids because And that's a totally different topic we can go into. But with milestones, yeah, it's getting your kids immersed in opportunities for the children with Down syndrome or other special needs to see other, what they call typical kids, reaching their milestones. And so Will seeing his brother walk, like Rocco walk before him and Rocco potty training before him. And now Will is, you know, he's nine and he sees Rocco riding his bike and he wants to ride a bike. And so, yeah, I think, you know, as far as milestones, it's just a matter of, like, patience.

How was he with language and finally talking and everything? Well, I'm proud to say this first word was dad. So that was a bonus. That was great. Because I nannied when, I mean, when I was way younger, 18 or 19, I nannied for a family. They had two twin boys with Down syndrome that were six when I was naning them. And they both still couldn't talk. They had, like, their own little language.

I would know certain sounds that they would make, what that meant. Like, gah meant strawberry yogurt, like weird things like that. Like, so I knew they were a little bit behind on language, so I was just curious. Well, for Will, it's been, like he's been able to articulate really well. Like I said, he's a little bit more higher functioning. But for people with Down syndrome, we like to compare it to like, like when I go into Will's class or I teach other kids about Down syndrome, I'd say it's like putting a bunch of cotton balls in your in your mouth and trying to talk, right?

Because their muscle tone is very low having Down syndrome. And so your tongue is a muscle. And so for them to use their tongue in articulation, it takes a little bit more time. And so there's, we had what they call an up to three program. So we have someone come to our house and help learn with speech and different things like that. But the thing, and so Will is a good talker. But the advantage, too, that we had is having, he's got a lot of siblings.

So he's around a lot of people hearing a lot of different. different words. So he has a lot of practice that way. What have been some of the most amazing pockets of joy, I guess I'll say, that you've encountered with parenting someone like Will? Just cute moments or things growing up, funny things. Sure. So, I mean, obviously, like, the Will Can Fly stuff that we did. Are you familiar with that? Yes, but explain to my audience who's never followed you and is just getting to know you for the first time, what Will can fly. is. Gotcha. So when Will was learning to roll over, he would roll over onto his stomach. And when he would get on his stomach, he would put his, he was trying so hard to get up and just keep moving. And he would

put his arms behind his back. So he's on his stomach. And he would put his arms behind his back and flap his arms and wiggle his legs. And so for the longest time, we joked with our kids that that Will was trying to fly. And we're like, one day he's just going to take right off. And it was the cutest thing. And I remember sitting in the living room while he was doing that one day. And, you know, everybody had known this in our family and community on social media that Will had this little cute attribute. And so being a photographer, graphic designer, all those things, I thought, let's just make him fly. Let's do this. And so I, my son was there and I said, let's go outside before mom gets home. We got him in his pajamas. Let's just going to, let's go make him

fly. And I'm going to Photoshop myself out. I'm going to hold him up. He's going to do his little wiggle. thing, you know, we'll Photoshop them out, and I'm going to send this to your mom and say, hey, just Will started flying. You know, trying to get him to bring him to bed. And so we took that photo. It was super cute. It posted it, and everyone just fell in love with it. They're like, oh, Will's flying great.

You know, he can do anything you puts his mind to. And was this one of the first big viral moments for your family on the Internet? Yeah, and it was kind of interesting how it transpired and grew. Like, as I took that picture and I started sending it out to people, and they were like, wow, you know, like, look at Will. he's doing everything and that that you know or he's flying you know and I started thinking to myself like this is really cute because our family came together to support him in something and as we support him as a family he's going to be able to do anything that he puts his mind to right because like that

first mindset that I had when he was born thinking that he's going to be very limited he's going to place limits on our family and here he was now like flying and so I felt like God was telling me that this is a message that I could share with with with the world also. also with other dads, you know, related to not having those same sort of selfish feelings about having a child with special needs. And so I started posting more pictures. It just became like this fun activity for the family. Like, what are we going to do today? What's it going to be the Will can fly picture today? And so we had Will flying with us at dinner. Like we're eating dinner and he's flying over us. The kids are doing homework and he's like, you know, like patting a rattle on

their head or all sorts of different things. And the next thing we knew, it kind of taken a life of its own and started to grow in social media and this message of inclusion and showing that, you know, people with Down syndrome had so much to offer the world if we could just give them a chance and support them. And how did that even increase throughout the years? Started with Will can fly. Then what other things did you share of Will that was just blowing people's minds or encouraging them or entertaining them on social media?

So, yeah, I mean, Will, it's just the thing that's so unique about, Will is he has no filter and like he sees everybody at face value. And so when we go to the like the grocery store or anything like that, we always say that strangers are friends that Will hasn't met yet. And so a lot of times when we take Will to the store, we're like, okay, we've got to go, we're just going to get more catch up for him. But we got to plan for like an hour because when we go into the store, it's all the time, it's, hey, what's your name? My name's Will. What's your name? And like, do you have a dog? That's the next question every time. Do you have a cat? You know? And so, but it has opened up so many unique opportunities for us to get to know people and to meet people that

otherwise we'd just be walking past. And we took a trip to New York and we were on the subway. And I'm like, this is going to be so bad guys. We got to hone will in on this because like I don't, this is going to be very unique for our family. And like I'm doing different things. We had six kids on a subway in New York. And I turn and Will has like it was in his stroller and kind of scooted himself over to this gentleman who looked really rough and he's like, hey, what's your name? And the guy kind of looks over at him. And he'll just looking at him. He's like, you got a dog? And this guy just starts smiling and this really rough guy, you know, that I would have perceived as this like dangerous person.

And Will is just bringing the heart into the situation and compassion and and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, he's just. this gentleman by the end was taking his hat off and put him on Will and just, yeah, just he has a way, he has a light to him that people with Down syndrome, if you've, I tell everybody, if you meet someone with Down syndrome for just five minutes, if you get to face to face with them, it'll change your perspective for life. Tell everyone about the ketchup. Oh, yeah. So that's, that's the ongoing ketchup saga.

So I'm not quite sure when it started. I would say probably when Will was about six years old and he could open the fridge. So what kid doesn't like chicken nuggets or chicken fingers and they love them and ketchup? And we just noticed like at the end of the day, Will was like scooping the ketchup and eating it. And so we're like, okay, whatever, you know, kids do weird things. And then as he got older, he would open the fridge and I noticed him in the fridge and like, oh, that's so cute. And I come around the corner and he has ketchup and he's drinking. it, just like downing it, like it's, you know, an energy drink or something, and just,

just sucking it right out of the bottle. And we all kind of joked about it and put it, you know, put it back and just kind of went on. Next thing we know, this became a habit. You know, it's like, hey, let's go outside. Oh, we're back. I'm going to drink. Go to the fridge. And it's ketchup. And drinking ketchup. And so were you first, like, you can't, like, you don't drink ketchup. Did you try to stop it? Or were you like, okay. Well, at first, I mean, being the guy that I am, I'm like getting out my phone. I'm like, oh my gosh, look at this guys. And then I'm like, okay, stop.

We really can't do that. You know, like, don't drink so much ketchup. And so, yeah, we tried to curtail it. And that we've tried, like, swapping out the ketchup with, like, V8 juice. And did he notice? And so for the first little bit, so we had a little bit of ketchup in it just to kind of, you know, make sure it wasn't too, like, a heart of a switch. And so the first little bit, I think there was just so much ketchup in there that he

couldn't taste the V8 juice. And it was really funny because we're sitting at the table, and I'm kind of watching him and recording it. And he starts drinking and he's down. and he's throwing it back. And then he's like, yeah. And then he looks at it. And he looks over at me recording him.

He's like, Dad. And his exact words were, Dad, you trick of me. And I'm like, what? And he's like, you evil. It was the cutest thing. And I was able to catch that on camera. One of my, like, okay, one of my favorite things that you've posted of him,

I think you guys were at home goods or something. But you included a clip, like you were just walking through the aisles. I don't know. there was like a statue head or a bust or something. And he just like bends over and just kisses it on the lips. And then just keeps walking. Just like, hey, what's up? I think it was a big Buddha head.

Yes. And it's so funny because like we see that now. It's just that's one of the joys of having a child with special needs. It's like he just walks up, kisses Buddha and we're like, cool, dude. Okay, let's go over here. And then he's going over and just, you know, trying on like high hills and those sorts of things. And so, yeah, it's every day is an adventure. and a joy and so.

What has been the toughest moment of parenting a child with special needs so far? Like a heartbreaking moment. I think for me, it has been watching him to start to recognize that he's different. Like, I mean, he's nine. And we're really starting to notice him be aware that he's not able to learn quite up to the same level as kids his age and the frustration that comes to him and not really understanding why that's happening. And that's been really hard for me to see him go through that and try to explain to him, you know, because we're, we'll tell him, you know, you have Down syndrome and this is, this is amazing,

you know, you're blessed. And we don't want to, we hope that he always feels that way, that it's a true blessing in his life. But as he's growing up, he's starting to understand that that, that that creates some challenges for him. Like what has happened recently, an example of that? I would say with reading. Yeah, that's been a big one. He loves to look at books and do different things. And Rocco is at that state where he's reading.

And so like Will has always, I felt like, been able to be like, okay, Rocco's doing that. And a year from now, I'm totally doing that. I'm going to get that down. And reading hasn't been one of those things where he's been able to really quickly transition into and it's been a real challenge for him and he gets he gets really frustrated and it's hard to watch him in that state this is probably a super ignorant question but i just genuinely don't know are people do people with down syndrome get to a place where sometimes they can learn how to read or or it's unlikely absolutely yeah and so i mean that goes to the different levels of functioning but um yeah i believe

you know will will definitely be able to read at some point and you know there's there's different things with different levels of math and that he will not be able to do or, well, I don't say never, but potentially, right? And does he go to traditional school or homeschooled? So we had Will going to a traditional public school. And that's another thing with having a child that's been with Down syndrome that's been very challenging is just inclusion in school. And so he was going to school for this first year or this year or this year.

year and we felt very strongly that we needed to take him out and kind of reevaluate his time. So he has what they would call life skills class where he goes sort of like a resource kind of class that he would go and spend the majority of his time. And we've been fighting for more inclusion where he can be in with his typical peers while learning, right? The majority of his school. There's obviously going to be time where he needs to go and be with a resource teacher and they have to adapt the curriculum for sure.

But it's been a challenge. It's been a real challenge for us, and we felt really strongly that, you know, as he's in this sort of resource class, it's creating some limits for him just because the variations of the different children with needs that are in that class. And like, I mean, Will models other kids.

And so if he's in a class where there's some kids there, maybe a little lower functioning, he's not going to push himself hard. Yeah. And so if we don't push for more inclusion, then he doesn't get as much time in the class with his typical peers. And so it creates a challenge with him in his learning. And so we felt inspired this year to take him out.

And how has he been doing since you've homeschooled? He's doing good. Yeah, he's doing great. We've been able to laser focus on reading, laser focus on the things that writing is letters. And so, and I in no way want to like sort of bash as teachers that we're trying to help him. But like I feel like this has allowed his mind to like be a little more focus and a little more comfortable on the things that he's, he's really good at. So we could really dial in on them like reading and writing. I think that's the case for even typical kids is just having that one on one time with a teacher and everything.

They can just improve in so many things. That's a whole, I've covered that on the show before, but there's just so many problems with public schools and how kids are learning and everything. So it totally makes sense to me that he'd be flourishing now. Sometimes you go, speaking of classrooms, though, you've gone and you've spoken to classrooms about Down syndrome and stuff. What has been one of the cutest things that has happened when you've done that? Oh, yeah. I love the opportunity to do that because the kids have so many questions, you know. and so a recent time that the most recent time we went and did that in will's class

we walk in and and you know I'm kind of explaining I'm will's dad and different things like that and and I asked the kids I said can anyone tell me what it means to have Down syndrome and I put that question to the group because I just love putting it out there to see where their mindset is and this and so Will had been in this class and the kids have been you know interacting with him and they knew him and and the cute is the most like, like it made me emotional to hear this, this young man say, Tav Down syndrome means you have a superpower. It means you have a special gift to that you're, that you have a big heart and that you easily love other people. And I was just like sobbing almost.

I'm like, that's incredible. Like this kid is going to be a leader. Like this is what we need, right? Like who are your parents? I want to hug them. I know. Let's write a book. And so that's so important. And, you know, as we talk about something that's very near and dear to my heart, people with Down syndrome, we talk about like the abortion rate of people getting a diagnosis of after they find out they have a child with Down syndrome and the abortion rate is so terrible in some countries that, you know, looking at sort of eradicating Down syndrome. Does that blow your mind that if Will was born to anyone else in another country, he may not even exist just because he is Down syndrome?

I can't fathom it. I don't even want to fathom it because, and we have, there's countries where when a child is born with Down syndrome, they're immediately put into an orphanage if they're not aborted. It just blows my mind, you know, having a son with Down syndrome and a light that he is to the world. And so for these kids in school to have that impression, to meet Will and have that kind of impression, like this kid has a superpower, he's a light to the world. that's so critical. Because it could shape another generation and how they view it. Like this young man,

I would say when he's older and him and his wife are having a child and the doctor says, you know, your son has Down syndrome. They're going to be like, we got this, we can do this,

you know? And it's so important because for the longest time as a parent with a child who has Down syndrome, I'm thinking, how can I change the mindset of these doctors

who are telling these moms, you know, like when they receive a Down syndrome diagnosis, like, oh, you know, these are the limitations of your child with Down syndrome. And, you know, it's going to be really hard and it's probably better if you just end this child's life now. And I'm like thinking, how can I change the mindset of these doctors or this geneticists that are inputting this information into people's minds? And for the longest time, I'm thinking, I've got to create pamphlets and do all these things to speak with these, with these doctors. And we just need to go upstream to these kids in the schools and teach them. That's why inclusion is so important for these kids in school. And that's why

kids with Down syndrome need to be integrated into school so that they can teach these kids that can make them better leaders. They can make them better people in general. This is, we can cut this out if you have no idea what I'm talking about. But it just popped in my mind. Did anybody ever sent you or did you see it yourself the one of the more recent love is blind seasons on Netflix there was a woman on this dating show who I guess worked with kids of special needs and she's like well because I work with kids that have Down syndrome and stuff I 100% in pro choice because I just see how tough that is and I think those women need to have an abortion or whatever yeah I just wondered if anyone had sent you that or like what your reaction is

that stirred the tribe for sure I can imagine that that would piss me off yeah Yeah. Like to hear her say that and to think you're working with children with special... How are you... How's your heart not softened? Yeah. What... At what capacity are you working with these children to make a comment like that? It goes back to my whole thought of like, if you have five minutes interacting with someone with Down syndrome, it'll change your life forever. It'll change your heart. And so in my mind, this is my own theory. that's propaganda. That's just something to stir the pot. And so that's how I look at it. And that's how I

just kind of, and you have to have, you know, having a child's special needs, you have to have thick skin, you know, and look at things. And I'll tell you, I'll share a story too with that view. So on my YouTube channel, I had someone comment on one of my videos with Will and saying your baby should have been killed and you're torturing your baby by keeping him alive and all these negative things. And it was just really hard and Papa Bear just wanted to come out and digitally punch this person, you know. And I felt this strong impression to take, take a step back, take breath, walk away for a minute, and then come back. And I came back to this comment and I started to chat with them. I'm like, sorry that you feel that way. Like, I love my son and this, he's such a blessing to our family.

And the person responded negatively again like, oh, this is propaganda, what you're doing, these are lies, you know, you're just trying to do this for likes and different things. And and wait until your child gets older. He's going to be such a burden on your life and all these things. And again, just like the rage, you know, that wants to come out and then stepping back and saying, like, everybody has a story. I'm going to see where this goes. I feel like God's guiding me to share more with this person. So I started talking more with them saying, like, I know a lot of people with Down syndrome who are older and they're a huge blessing to their family and to their community.

And I'm sorry that you feel this way. I'd love to get on a phone call with you and talk about this. and we interacted and then the heart was getting softened and a little more and more the negative stopped and the person started talking to me and then there was a pause and then I came back an hour later and this person to comment and said I want to let you know that I think your son is beautiful same person what yeah I want to let you know that I think your son is beautiful and what you're doing is fantastic she said I actually have a sister with Down syndrome and when my sister was born my parents gave her all of the attention.

And it was hard for me because she stole that attention. And now my parents are getting older and I'm caring for her. And I'm having to deal with that frustration, that anger that I had of that lost connection with my parents growing up. And I'm learning to work through that. And so here was this person, you know, that never would have guessed that. Did that blow your mind? Like, Nikki, look at this.

I know. I was like, well, and I told her, I said, I would love to connect. you with someone in your community that can help you. Let's work through this. And it just turned out to be this, this great thing. It was just taking the time to pause, take a deep breath, know that everybody's coming from a different situation. And then that was the result of that. There are, there may be somebody listening right now who just found out that their baby has Down syndrome or maybe they have a close friend or family member that just had a baby with Down syndrome. What are the most important things for them to know as they embark on this parenting journey?

Most important thing for sure is to know, well, first of all, like, welcome to the club, welcome to the cool club, right? And know that there's going to be challenges, but the joy is going to outweigh the challenge for sure. And absolutely understand that you don't have to do this alone. There is a huge community out there. And connect with people. Find people on social media.

I can guarantee that if you reach out to a mama on Instagram that has a child with Down syndrome and you say, I need some help, 100%. They're going to welcome you to the tribe right away. It's this unique world that I never knew existed before Will. That's out there. And they'll welcome you with open arms. And also understand that your son or daughter is going to be a huge blessing to your life and your kids's life. It's going to teach your children so much about empathy, so much. about being more compassion to people that are different. One of your older sons just took a girl with Down syndrome to the prom, didn't he? Yeah, that was amazing. And that was totally his idea. Like, just he had seen her in one of his classes where they work with kids with special needs. And she actually has Down syndrome and autism.

And they just had a great time, you know? Like, just... That had to have made you really proud. Oh, I was crying. Yeah. Super emotional, right? Proud dad moment for sure. And so another thing that I started to know with like a change with my kids after Will was born. I remember Allie specifically, we were in the store. And, you know, I'm still trying to figure this all out. And I remember Allie saying,

dad, look at that woman over there. She has Down syndrome. And I looked across the aisle in the grocery store. And here was this woman with Down syndrome. And I'm like, oh, you're right. She has has Down syndrome. And she's like, wow, she's so beautiful. And I remember. sobbing, thinking to myself, Will is teaching my kids things that I never could have taught them as a parent. And so that was super important and just a life-changing thing for me. My summer beauty hack, get an ice roller. Stick it in your fridge. Get an amazing serum like the vitamin C serum from Mimi Skin Care. Put that on and then use that ice roller to depuff, cool, and just tuck that serum deep into your skin. And if you're not,

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Nimi-Skincere.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off your order every time. That's Nemeyskinkare.com with code Alex Clark or click the link in the show notes. How does someone with Down syndrome see the world? Well, I would say that Will specifically sees everyone at, like, you're my best friend and I love you until you hurt me. Like I go into like meeting someone, I'm like, I don't trust you until you can prove that I can trust you. Complete opposite with someone with Down syndrome. And the other great thing about people with Down syndrome is you know where you stand all the time.

Right? Like what he said, you evil. Yeah. Right. Or they'll come up and say, I love you. You know what I mean? and you're my best friend for life, you know, kind of thing. And it's just so, and it's genuine.

When someone with Down syndrome tells you they love you, they love you, right? And they will do anything for you. And they'll always remember you. And I have older people with Down syndrome who I've met, been blessed to meet throughout the years, and they'll call me randomly. And they're like, I wrote a song for you. And I'm like, are you serious? Let me hear this.

And they'll sing this most incredible song for me. And I'm like, what a huge blessing. And then at the end of they'll be like, hey, I just want you to know I love you. Okay? And I'm like, okay, buddy, we'll see you. And like huge blessing in my life to have that opportunity. Very real love. And yeah, it's like I said, five minutes with someone with Down syndrome will change your life.

And some people with Down syndrome, do they ever end up living on their own and doing things like that? I mean, obviously they can have jobs and things. I'm just thinking for people that just found out this diagnosis and they're feeling scared or nervous. and not what to, they have no idea what to expect. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, again, it goes on to more higher functioning and different things like that. But Tim Harris, a perfect example.

Look him up on the internet. He's an individual with Down syndrome who has his own business. He's a motivational speaker. He wrote his own book and things like that. Like incredible, incredible things. You know, again, it comes back to the tribe, the family, supporting them in the things they want to do, not placing limits on them. That's the one thing we do with Will. You know, like we treat him like our other kids, right? If we're going to, if we're going to put

limits on him, if we're babying him and thinking that he, you know, can't do certain things like, oh, he'll never ride a bike, things like that. We treat him like our other kids. Obviously, it's, there's, you know, his milestones are different. But yeah, absolutely they'll have jobs. There's people that move out. There's people with Down syndrome that get married. Have you guys watched Love on the Spectrum as a family? No, we haven't yet. Oh my gosh! We need to.

You have to watch the show. Your kids would love it. I know. Again, Alex, six kids. It's not a long time. Okay. You guys have got to watch it because even though it is primarily about kids with autism, dating and trying to find love, there are a few people that they have featured that have Down syndrome.

Oh, I love that. And it is just amazing watching these people talk about what I'm looking. for? Do I want to get married? Am I just looking for casual dating? I mean, all the things that we go through. But it's just so unique and you fall in love with certain ones. And then there's other ones where you're like, you don't like them as much, you know? Just like real people in the world. There are people you like and people you don't like. But it is just such a pure, just wholesome show that I'm sure your older kids would really love. One thing that I had to talk to you about that really sticks out to me about your family and you in particular is that you guys do so.

many adventures with each other. Like you guys are jumping in frozen lakes in the middle of winter and all this crazy stuff. And I was wondering if having kids that are adventurous was a planned parenting decision ahead of time. Like as a family, I want us to be brave and adventurous and show our kids how to be courageous between you and your wife or if that's just something that ended up happening. That's a great question. That's definitely something that I think it evolved I grew up in a family that was they're surprisingly not a family that was of introverts

so home bodies my parents are very much home bodies my dad actually one time said I wish I could be a hermit that kind of thing and so here I was kind of this heart of just like I want to see and explore it all and then Nikki having that maybe a little lower level of that kind of drive

but I felt we both felt strongly as a couple as time went on and I would say as I would say as Will came into our lives, we really started to see the importance of getting out of our comfort zones, right? And Will really opened our eyes to that because he, like I said, he introduces us to so many people and as we, you know, the different things that we did on social media were blessed to go viral, meet different people. We understood that getting out of our comfort zone was so important to break us. to help us be 1% better every day.

And so the adventurous side, that's kind of, I would say Will was one that really helped that to evolve. And, you know, we do the cold therapy, like getting in the frozen rivers. And it's all about getting out of your comfort zone. That's one thing that I feel so important for our kids to learn. I am just blown away. And obviously, what we see on social media is what you want us to see. I mean, we don't know what happens 100% of the time.

But what my perception is of your family is that. Even with teenagers, you guys have managed to be unbelievably close-knit and really prioritizing family time and that your kids, not only are they spending time with you, it seems like they want to spend time with their parents. And I think a lot of people see that and they're like, how are you doing that? Because my teenagers want nothing to do with me. You know, how have you managed to foster that love of being together as a family as your kids get older? That's a great question. you know, I think a lot of that comes from being approachable as a parent, right? I just feel like each of my kids are different.

Each of my kids are different. And so it's a matter of like finding a way for them to fall into their personalities. And so being approachable in the way of, I would say the best, and not being intimidating as a dad, it's so important. Like there's attributes that I feel are very important as a dad that I tell other dads. And that is love, pray, learn, and lead. Those are the four things that I kind of like gauge myself with all the time as a dad. And so love, that is me telling my kids,

that I love them, vocalizing that to them so that they feel that, they know that. And I think a lot of times dads tend to think, oh, you know, I protect and I provide so you know that I love you through that, right? And then the moms tend to be more of the ones that are vocalizing love. And my dad never told me he loved me. And not until a couple of years before my mom passed away. And so that was hard for me. And so telling my kids that I love them, that creates a bond to where they feel comfortable

to approach me. and praying together. Like we pray as a family. We sit at the dinner table together and pray as a family. I pray for our, we pray for our kids. You know, my wife and I pray for our kids. That's important.

And when we pray as a family, we're praying for each other and we're praying for people in our lives that we need and we're possibly praying for things that I need in my life. So my kids see that I'm vulnerable. And they understand that I'm vulnerable, right? And so that makes me a little more approachable. I feel like when my kids see

that I have some vulnerability. And learn is really important, one attribute to where when I approach my kids and they talk to me and I'm going to listen. As a dad, I'm just going to listen. And a lot of times as a dad, we feel like I'm the teacher. I'm going to tell you all the ways to fix the problem and that's all I'm going to do and then move on. But a lot of times we just need to let our kids come to us.

I'm like, how's your day? And then we're just going to listen to what they say and we're going to take. it all in and we're just going to let them dump on us, right? And that's so important as a dad to do that. My kids, they will come and I had to fight the urge to be like, here's the solution. You know, I'm the great wise man to tell you what to do. Fight that urge and just let them, let them dump. And then you can teach them, right? And then lead. That is one thing that I am definitely conscious of and lead with your wife, like together, counsel each other, counsel with each other on your kids. So I think a lot of times as a dad, we're like, I'm going to protect and provide,

and then wife's got the nurturing side and doing all the things with the kids and kind of let her run that ship. And especially in our times today with so many things our kids are bombarded with, right? We need to work together as husband and wife and really come together and throw the pride out the window. And there's times when, you know, I see things with our kids that that we need to do. And my wife's like, that's great. I didn't notice that. And there's times when my wife see something, and I'm like, I did never notice that. And working together is so important. We can't just let one lead and not the other.

How important has it been to, with having such a big family, to prioritize private moments or moments away with your wife from the kids? Like, how big of a part has that played in the success of your marriage, you think? So crucial. So critical. and we've noticed that it's more than just getting away. It's finding moments where we can connect, right? So you can get away and go do something and then you're just kind of in the moment going. But like going for a bike ride or just simple things going for a hike together.

And it's critical to help us help my wife and I get. grounded, right? Because a lot of times we get maybe absorbed in our job or absorbed in, you know, hobbies or different things like that. You know, there's that tendency to want to do that. And so that one-on-one time, so critical. And to the point where, like, we're planning that on a weekly basis. Like, we need to have our long time. It could be just us going for a walk. I think some people, they feel, I don't know if it's self-conscious, but they feel like, well, I'm failing. in my marriage if I had to plan a lone time with my spouse. They have a hang up around the idea of planning.

Yeah, that's, I feel like that's, that's a distraction. That's because there are so many, there are so many facets of being a parent, right? That planning together time, like, I mean, you don't have to plan every detail of what's going to happen with that. But, I mean, you're going to plan things that you're doing with your children. you're going to plan things you're going to do as a couple. So I disagree with that. I think it's important that we have those times planned out.

All right. Well, speaking of making plans, you are in the process of adopting a 14-year-old girl and she has no idea. No idea. I know. It breaks my heart. What is going on? What is going on? Start from the beginning.

Everything. I want to know every detail. How did you meet her? Where does she live? Everything. All right. Yeah. It's one of those, again, one of those situations.

like Will, where we were like, I feel like we're done with our kids. You know, six kids were great. And the Lord had a different plan for us, right? And so we were, I was, I worked for an organization called Rod's Heroes, and we go to orphanages and we help children with Down syndrome or other unique circumstances, other special needs, find families who are in a situation where no other extended family wants to adopt them or anything like that. And so we're finding families for them.

And we were in Columbia. So we were at an orphanage. where we would call typical kids that were close to aging out. So in Columbia, when a child turned 16, they age out of the adoption process, and at that point, they're no longer adoptable. And it's really sad circumstances like some of these kids will end up on the streets, immediately come homeless, whatnot. And so we were there meeting at this orphanage to tell these stories of these children.

And I had gone into this situation thinking, you know, I would adopt a child with Down syndrome for sure, typical child, it's never on my mind. And as the day went on, and as we were meeting with these kids, we had this first day and I kind of went into work mode, like we're videoing and capturing these kids' stories. And then the next day, we had a big dance party with all the children in the orphanage. And this, I'm trying, I'm a terrible dancer. And so. Now, it's just you here or you and your wife? It was just me. Me and the founder of the organization and a few other people, a film crew, be doing these kids stories. And so I'm trying to dance with these kids and this girl who just, I had felt something

when I've interviewed her. I could see her and I was like, what a confident girl. I love her. She just seems so, there's something about this. She saw that was a terrible dancer. She came over and tried to help me. It was cute. She had sympathy for me.

And so we started dancing together and I'm telling her stupid dad jokes and she's laughing. And, you know, as the day wore on, I just felt this like protection mode with her and to a point where I was like feeling something right and so as the day we're on I was like where where is she and I was just kind of like dialing into wherever she was and we started to communicate more and I was asking her all these things that she likes to do and I'm feeling something and I'm like okay this I get this all the time when I'm with a kid I'm like could I adopt this child but something's a little bit different here I'm like praying in my heart to help me to know that maybe I'm feeling something a little more unique here.

And so we were getting ready to leave. And I said, I've had so much fun with you and I'm going to miss you. And I said, I realize I don't have any, I've been asking you questions all day. Do you have any questions for me? And I'm using Google Translate on my phone. She's speaking Spanish. I was going to say, does she speak English even? No.

Oh, this is a whole other conversation. Okay, I have so many questions about this. Okay, okay. So you're using Google Translate. You're talking to her. What does she say about her question? And so I'm, what questions do you have for me? And she paused and she looked up at me and then looked down at the phone. Like she was really kind of thinking about how she wanted to say this.

And she speaks into the phone and she hands it over to me and I look at it and it's she said, I want to be your daughter. Stop. And I called her by name and I just started sobbing. And she immediately had this look like she'd done something bad and I'm like, no, it's okay. It's just like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm like, it's okay. Because I just, that was a confirmation for me that she's feeling it too. Like here I am feeling like. I need to adopt her.

And she just confirmed that. And so I replied and said, I will pray is my response to her. Because I wasn't sure what to say. I mean, I obviously, absolutely, I want to adopt you. And so then she's like, well, I need to go to school. And I said, well, I miss you. And she left and she walked away. And I'm just crying.

And she stopped and she turned around and looked at me one last time and she waved. And like, I'm sorry I said that. Is that okay? And I was like, it's okay. I'll see you. And she laughed. And I went behind the orphanage and just cried, like a baby. And again, here's me asking Heavenly Father, God, I need one more, one more confirmation

that I need to do this. And so I come out and I thought she'd gone on the bus and laughed at that point. And so I'm meeting with the film crew and we're trying to figure out the next steps for the next children that we need to do videos, documentaries for. And I hear this cute little, cute little voice go, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. And I look around the corner and she comes running away from the group. over and I'm like, is she going to come to me or is she going to come to someone else in the group? And she comes running over to me, she wraps her arms around me. And I almost kissed her on the forehead. Like it was like it was Ali coming to me, like my daughter. I was just feeling that. And she comes and like, I actually put my head on her on top of her head or my chin on the top of her

head. And I'm like, oh, that was closing. And then I look up and I'm like, I'll miss you. And I almost wanted to be, it's almost like one of those moments where I'm like saying, hey, when you come home from school, you know, get with mom. I got some chores for you. for you. Like, it was just that feeling like I've known her before. It was natural. And that was last time I saw her. And then I got on the phone. I said, Nikki, we need adopt this girl. She's 13 years old. She was 13 years old. She was 13 all the time. Her birthday was on May 5th. She just recently had a birthday. But we need adopt this girl. I'm on my way to Ecuador. I won't be able to talk to you more about this. Here you go. You go. You draw. You drop this on your

wife. You said, I want to adopt this random girl that I just met in another country. And then you just like, got to go by. I'm getting on a plane. See you. And her response. was, Alan, you cannot adopt all the kids. Stay focused. And the next day, you know, we're in Ecuador and I'm sending all these photos that I'd had of her and some video content. And she's like, Alan, this is just a 13-year-old girl, doesn't speak English. We don't know what trauma she's had. How can we do this? I don't know, I don't know how we can do this. And I said, pray about it, fast about it. This is our daughter. And the Lord has told me that this is our daughter and that we need to We need to get her into our home, teach her her her divine potential, and get her out of her as soon as possible.

How much time passed then between that conversation and when you got to see Nikki again and talk about this in depth? So we were in Ecuador for, I believe it was two or three days, and then there was some time passing with travel on different things. So roughly three days. And so there's another unique thing about this. So as you know, our oldest daughter is adopted. And while we were on this trip, there was someone else in our group who was posting some things to social media about the kids we were meeting and different stuff like that. And my oldest daughter, Gracie, who's adopted, was following that. And Nikki, in the meantime, you know, like, why I'm in Ecuador is like, I don't know how we can do this.

I prayed about it. I don't know how I feel. And our daughter, Nikki was in church with our kids. And our kids had heard Nikki and I having this conversation. They're hearing one side, Nikki, saying, we can't adopt a child with a teenager, you know, it doesn't speak English. And so our kids are hearing this one side. And my son, they were waiting for church to start. My son turns to my wife and it's like, is dad really wanting to adopt a 13-year-old girl?

And she's like, yes, he's talking about adopting this girl. And we don't know yet what we're going to do. And my daughter, Gracie, said, is it that girl with a beautiful eyes? And Nikki was like, this girl? and pulls up the picture. And my daughter, Gracie was like, yes, Mom, I saw that picture when they were posted her on social media. And I felt a connection to her. That's my sister. We need to adopt her. Dad is right. And that was a confirmation that my wife needed. And just there's sobbing, you know, and my wife calls me and said, all right, I'm ready to start the paperwork. Let's do this. This is before I got home. And that's where we're at. So now. Okay, so many things. When it comes to adopting a child that is older like that, I mean, the first thing you brought up that Nikki had asked, like, we don't know what trauma she's been through. That's something that a lot of people kind of pause on because they're worried about that. Was that not a concern for you at all? I mean, it's a concern, right? It's, but I, it was something like, as we were reading, as we progressed and started working the adoption agency and I started reading through her file and the different. things that she's been through. In my mind, I knew that she was our daughter and that we would take it,

we would just deal with whatever we needed to deal with. Learning about what we needed to deal with was important and how we were going to do that, but it wouldn't have changed my mind. What about having a language barrier? We can get through that. So wait, are you and your wife taking classes to learn how to speak Spanish or what? We are. We're learning Spanish and working through that. And I 100% want her to understand her culture and continue to speak Spanish. Learning Spanish has been a process for us. And there's a certain side of like, you know, we don't want to completely just speak Spanish because we want her to adapt and learn English. But yeah, we're in the process of doing that. We've got little post-it notes like on the fridge.

Like this is what the Spanish word is? Like this is butter and stuff all over the house. She'll have to learn how to say ketchup. Oh, 100%. Yes. Yes. I just, you know what I love is that you and your wife, everything has been an adventure for you. And this is like, this is another adventure. Now we're going to adopt this child. We're going to learn how to speak Spanish. It's just a whole other adventure to do together. Yeah.

Yeah, my kids, it's interesting. They're like, Dad, can we just take a breather for one minute, for one year and not do something like way out of the box? I'm like, no, we got to stay. We just got to keep going where the Lord wants us to go. Let's keep our hearts open. So what happens? Like, the next time you see her, is it just going to be? when you're showing up to take her home or what?

Like, how does this work? Yeah. So we are about three quarters of the way through the adoption process. And so, again, at this point, she has no idea that we're in the process of adopting her. Why can't she know? Part of the rules. They don't, in case something happens, you know, they don't want to have that trauma for her. And here's the cute thing that I hope that the orphanage can record in some way.

So on my phone that I was using to translate, I had a pay. picture of my family. And I would try to hide it as much as I could because I didn't want her to see that because I didn't want to create any issues with that. But she took my phone one time when I asked her that question. I want, you know, what questions you have for me? And she took it and she saw my family. And she looked at that picture and I could tell she was looking at it. And then, you know, I took my phone back and entered it. So we're at the point where we are going to present her with a gift to announce that we are adopting her. And so the front cover of that book is going to be the picture that she saw on our phone of my entire family, and then they'll tell her at that point. And that will probably

be like a month. It won't be until about July. And so at that point, she'll know that we're adopting her, and I'm praying that I can get someone at the orphanage to record her seeing that book for the first time in knowing that we're coming. And then in July, the other unique thing is we'll travel to Columbia to bring her home. And one of the travel requirements is that we would need to live in country for four weeks. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. What about the rest of the family? So the family is going to come out for the first 10 days and Nikki with the older kids and we'll be there for 10 days and then they'll fly back and then I'll stay there with our daughter for the remaining three weeks.

Oh my gosh. This is like so crazy and I'm so excited for you and to get to watch all of this go down. How do your older kids that are still living at home feel about this? Like all of a sudden having a sibling that's close in age. Isn't she the same age as Allie? She's the same age as Allie. That's wild. Hallie is super excited.

So are they going to share a room? Like what's what is advised for a child like that coming in at that age? You know what I mean? I mean, they're open to like she could share room. We're going to have a separate room for her. There's, they recommend having a period where it's kind of like what they call a nesting period after the child's home so that you can sort of bond. And we'll do that like where we live out in the country. we have opportunities to kind of, you know, like do different things outside and be together and

we'll maybe not like do big trips or different thing for a little while. But yeah, I think it's our kids have, it's really interesting when I told my oldest son, I'm like, hey, just so you know, we're going to adopt a 13 year old girl from Columbia that doesn't speak any English. She's enjoying our family and probably the, you know, late July. And he's like, cool. You know, I love that, though. Very chill.

Yeah, it's like, we'll work through this. Now, what about, but what about somebody like Will, though? Because I imagine, I mean, is he ever going to be able to learn how to speak Spanish or? No. Like, what about, have you thought about that barrier of them trying to communicate? Yeah, that's again, one of those things where, like, I mean, Will has been able to communicate with people through just emotions, body language. like I know she loves hugging so we're sat like Will's gonna they're gonna bond pretty simple right and do you think he'll understand that when you say she doesn't speak English?

Probably not no but Will be like dad what is she saying? Will already claims that he knows Spanish so I shot this video of him the other day I'm like how do you say taco in in Spanish and he goes balita he just made something up so yeah he's just going to be, he'll figure it out on his own. He'll have, they'll have their own language to hear, I'm sure it'll be really cute. Has there been classes that you've had to take to kind of go through what it's like to adopt an older child or, or how does that work? Yeah, it's been extensive, like the paperwork, the training, which, I mean, obviously they wanted to have parents prepared to do this. But yeah, and, you know, having the experience with our older daughter being adopted

as well has kind of helped us to leap into that pretty easily. And so yeah, there's, there's, it's quite extensive and there's so many hurdles for these children, uh, in coming home to families, but we're working through it. And thankfully my, I'm very like, Nikki says I'm the fun, dad and she's like the more organized person. So we balance each other out. She does all the paper. She's done most of the paperwork. And so I tell her, I'm like, wow. if we didn't have you on this, we would be way behind. So thankfully, Nikki is like the organized person getting us all through on that. If someone listening is on the fence about growing their family or adoption, what advice would you give them?

Well, I would say that, you know, adoption is, if you're feeling inspired to adopt, to be very prayerful and to lean into that. and to speak to other families who have adopted. Like, if you're feeling inspired to adopt, if you're feeling inspired whether it's a typical child or a child with special needs, find, discover, there's so many websites, discover a family who's done that before and talk to them about what you're feeling

and then be prayerful about it. Right? And one thing with the organization I work for, we say it was like adoption is hard, but it's the most beautiful hard you'll ever experience, right? And so whether it's domestic adoption or international adoption, these kids, every child deserves a family. So lean into that inspiration that you're feeling. Where can people follow you to watch the videos of your family, follow along with the adoption process.

And then also, where can people support you financially in this adoption if they feel inclined in their heart to do so? Oh, that's great. Thank you for asking. Yeah. So social media is like one of our Instagram. specifically as one of our main platforms that we work through. So that dad blog. And I also have a blog, That Dad Blog, and our YouTube channel as well.

And the same name as That Dad Blog, where we're going to be documenting all of our journey and sharing that. So love to have people follow and see the journey as we move into this next chapter of our life. And then for donations, we actually have a book, a Welcome Fly Book. that we have all the pictures of Will flying and that you can purchase that and the proceeds from that will go towards our adoption to help fund with our adoption. And that's at will canfly.com. So W-I-L-C-A-N dot com. And so, yeah, we'd love that support or Venmo. And that's at that dad blog as well. I'll put all of that also in the show notes, the description of the episode.

So if you want an easy link, we'll put all of that there. Alan, happy Father's Day. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing this story. And I'm just so touched to get to meet you. So thank you for coming on the spillover. Thank you, Alex. It's great to meet you as well.

You have to start following Alan's family on Instagram at That Dad blog. It is such a special pocket of the internet that they've created that has stayed just pure and positive for so many years. And for this show, primarily having a young female audience. It's men like Alan who remind us. what a godly husband and father are supposed to look like. And what traits you should pray for in a future husband? Or if you're already married, pray that God will create such an overflowing love of fatherhood in his heart, just like what Alan has.

This was my first ever adoption story episode. I believe the only other time I covered adoption was in my Katie Faust interview from season three. We talked about the ethics of the fertility industry and discussed the differences between surrogacy and adoption and why that's important because a lot of people hear pro-life people like myself, because I talk about it a lot, say that surrogacy is an ethical. And then they're like, well, how is that different from abortion? Because you're taking that child away from their biological parent. But actually, it's very different. And so all those details are explained so that, you know, you can then understand why someone may say they're pro-adoption, but anti-surrogacy. If you are a special needs parent or adoption grew your family, it would be such a

cool thing to share those stories with me in your five-star reviews this week or the cute servatives Facebook group. That is like the whole community of women that listen to this show are and we talk on a daily basis and it's super fun and everybody sharing their life stories and asking for advice and all kinds of good tea that is basically the overflow of conversation started in this podcast. And that way everyone can see your adoption or special needs stories. Next Thursday on the spillover, I'm talking to an expert at debating abortion who happens to be atheist, super unique. Not a lot of people realize that there are more than just conservative Christians in the pro-life movement. She's going to teach us how to argue for life and win using only

scientific evidence. New episodes come out Thursdays, anywhere you get your podcast at 9 p.m. Pacific and midnight eastern. I'm Alex Clark and this is The Spillover. Love you, mean it. Bye.