Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “Planned Parenthood’s Lies & Pro-Life Controversies.” – Interview with Abby Johnson

Episode Date: January 28, 2022

Hear the dark truth about what really goes on in Planned Parenthood facilities from someone who really knows because she worked there for many years. Abby Johnson exposes the demonic conversations she had with her boss, describes her own HORRIFIC abortion experience, reveals the TRUE goals of Planned Parenthood, explains the shocking reasons behind why she believes someone in the pro-life movement is LYING about their own assault, and she’s NOT afraid of getting cancelled for saying it. ...

Have you ever worked for a company and one day realized that everything they stand for for went against your beliefs? Maybe you thought that the work you were doing was helping people. And then one day, the wool was pulled away from your eyes and you knew you had to get out? On September 26, 2009, today's guest had such an epiphany. She had just been promoted to clinic director at one of the largest, Planned Parenthood's in the country after dedicating eight years of her life to the organization. Helping women in crisis was a huge desire in her heart.

And she thought that she was fulfilling that desire every time she ushered women one by one to the back of the clinic to have an abortion. At first, she believed abortion was something that Planned Parenthood was looking to decrease. But as time went on, she noticed more and more that abortion was the main service. Planned Parenthood was selling to women in crisis pregnancies. It started to make her feel a little uneasy, but she wasn't in a place to fully walk away until that hot September day in Bryan, Texas. Our guest was asked to assist with an ultrasound-guided abortion. For a place that specializes in ending pregnancies, this should have been routine, right?

Instead, reality hit her like a train when, on the ultrasound screen, she witnessed a 13-week baby fight for its life against the abortion doctor. She was horrified. Sadly, the baby ultimately met the same faith that over 600,000 aborted babies meet in the United States every year. There was no denying what abortion actually was and what she had pushed so many desperate women to do throughout her career. That's when she did what she never thought in a million years she would do. Reach out to one of the very pro-life groups that had spent time prehistive. praying outside of her clinic.

Deep down, she knew that she not only had to do a complete heart and soul transformation and repent for what she had done, but she also had to quit her director's position at Planned Parenthood and start a brand new career advocating for babies inside the womb as a pro-life activist. To say that Planned Parenthood did not take the news of our guest departure well is an understatement. Planned Parenthood's greatest threat and biggest fear are employees quitting and speaking out about what goes on behind the scenes. The organization immediately took legal action

to silence our guest with a gag order and brought her to court in an attempt to keep her quiet about abortion being their biggest business. But our guest wasn't scared. She knew the lawsuit was a sham and it turns out she was right because it was ultimately thrown out of court.

Today, she travels all around the world sharing her story about what she saw that day and how corrupt Planned Parenthood really is. She knows that their goal is to actually help women, but to profit off of their pregnancy crises. And she has kept her promise to herself in working hard to expose them in every possible way. She is the founder of And Then There Were None, a ministry that helps abortion clinic workers leave the abortion industry. And her nonprofit has helped over 430 workers escape.

In 2019, her life story was depicted in the movie Unplanned, based off of her book by the same name. She still lives in Texas with her husband and her husband. and eight beautiful children. You may have heard her testimony before, as she's one of the most well-known speakers and activists in the pro-life movement. What you may not know is that our guest is sometimes seen as a controversial advocate for life,

who doesn't shy away from a challenge. She's also the best person to go to for the real inside scoop on Planned Parenthood and what really happens in the company behind closed doors. Welcome author and pro-life speaker, Abby Johnson, to the spillover. Abby, you and I got to meet last spring in person for the first time ever. And I was just blown away by your personality to me. I mean, you're just, you never afraid to say what you think, which I love, but also gets you into some trouble sometimes. That's true. If I had to describe you, I'd say that your values, they're very obviously conservative. They're very traditional. But what I find to be very interesting is that despite your traditional values, you also work out.

outside the home. Your husband stays home with your eight kids, right? Yeah. So talk about that dynamic and how that works for your family. Yeah. So I mean, Doug was a teacher for a lot of years. And when I started like popping out kids like crazy, we, you know, we're thinking, okay, what are we going to do here? You know, is he going to go back to work as a teacher? we had moved to Austin and so we were like, you know, is he going to go back to work or? And it just came, it just became very apparent that if he went back to work, that he would essentially just be working to pay for daycare. And so we just thought, you know, what would it be like if he stayed home?

And I mean, at that point, I didn't expect to have like a gaggle of children. Like I just thought I would have like, you know, like two or three. Yeah. Like you need a TLC reality show at this point. Yeah. So yeah. Like I didn't expect to be like a frigging douger. So, um, but like at that time, we just thought, okay, like he'll stay home for a few years and then go back to work.

But it just ended up working out so well, you know. And especially because I travel so much, it would be hard for me. to be on the road and travel as much as I do, knowing that, like, if he was not in the home, you know, it just, like, gives me peace of mind knowing that that he's here. And I mean, like, we are, like, I mean, we are like pretty traditional, like, you know, like in the sense that, you know, he, I mean, he is the spiritual leader of our home, like, you know, but, but yeah, like, he is the one staying at home. And I tell, I tell people all the time, like, I mean, yes, I'm the one that works.

Yes, I'm the one that, you know, makes money in our home. But there's a lot of different ways that you can be a provider for the home. And in that sense, you know, he provides in many different ways for our home outside of, you know, financially providing. Do you feel like pro-lifers are being intellectually honest when they say that women can have it all if they don't choose abortion? Or do you find, you know, with you being a working mom with so many kids, do you find that inevitably, something is always going to suffer a little bit, whether that's your marriage, your family, or your career, if you have to choose between one, or can you really just do it all? I mean, if I didn't have, if I didn't have Doug, I wouldn't be able to do everything that I'm doing,

right? So, and I, and I will say, I mean, honestly, Alex, like I, I've missed out on a lot with my kids. Like, I mean, there's so much that I've missed out on. I've never, I've never seen, I've eight kids. I've never seen any of my kids take their first step. Wow. I've, you know, missed a ton of recitals and sporting events. And, you know, I've missed a lot. I've missed a lot of milestones, you know.

I miss a lot of, like, first words. And so you miss a lot. I think the difference is that I'm not missing it because I'm like, you know, because I'm working at a, I don't know, a convenience store. I mean, not to like diminish other kinds of work. I'm just saying like I feel like, I feel, I guess in a way okay about it because I do feel compelled to do what I'm doing. Like, I do feel called to do what I'm doing. And I feel like I must do it. And so, you know, I'm trying to, I guess like my prayer always is that my kids understand that I had to miss some of

their things because I was helping save the lives of other children. Right. And so that's sort of like your hope, I think, as a parent, like as you're doing this sort of work, is that your kids just eventually understand why you weren't always there. I went into your story of just, you know, being the super successful director with Planned parenthood for many, many years. And then quitting, obviously, once you saw an ultrasound. during an abortion and saw what an abortion really was.

And since you actually worked for Planned Parenthood for many years, I wanted to know the truth from you on what the company culture is actually like. Does Planned Parenthood actually and honestly believe that their goal is to provide women, you know, affordable or free healthcare services or wellness checkups? Or when they say those things, do they know that they're lying? Yeah. So that's a good question. I mean, I would say that, you know, there was there was a time.

I would say that, yeah, that that probably was more of their goal, you know, to provide sort of this preventative health care, sort of this family planning, you know, birth control, STD testing, well, women, care. that probably was at some sometime their goal at one point in time. But that fell by the wayside a long time ago. And even more so in the past, I would say eight years. Planned Parenthood has become so incredibly brazen about their desire to provide abortions, to sell abortions. You know, they're not even like hiding behind this, this family planning facade anymore. Planned Parenthood has abortion facilities open that are only providing abortion,

six days a week, 50 hours a week. Wow. So they don't do birth control. They don't do STD testing. They don't provide pap smears. There's no breast care there. They're not doing anything like that. They are only committed.

admitting abortions full-time six days a week. And there's a bunch of those clinics now that are Planned Parenthood facilities. So they're really moving into full-time abortion care. And a few years ago before, right, it was actually right before Cecil Richards retired, she actually tweeted out, I think it was in a tweet, that cervical cancer screenings or pap smears are as important as abortion care at Planned Parenthood. Wow. And so, I mean, that's, I mean, that is what they do.

I mean, they are an abortion provider. But when pro-choice activists say, well, abortion isn't even half of the picture of what Planned Parenthood provides, what is the reality? I mean, that's actually something that they're trying to really get away from. That's that talking point. When I went to, I went to the Women's March after Trump was elected. And I went to the I went to there. They had like a women's march like convention.

And so I snuck him and was actually quickly recognized. And was like told to get out. But I went in there and I went into one of the Planned Parenthood meetings. And one of the girls that worked there actually stood up. And she was like, can we please stop saying that Planned Parenthood that abortion is only a small part of what we provide at Planned Parenthood, because we all know that's not true. We all know it's a huge part of what we do. And all we're doing is promoting abortion stigma when we act like there's something

wrong with abortion. She said the quiet part out loud. Exactly. And so that's really what they're doing now is they're like, stop saying that it's only 3% of what we do because you're basically saying that there's something wrong with it. Right. Like be public. be proud of having an abortion.

Shout your abortion. That's right. Be proud of the fact that that Planned Parenthood is providing all these abortion services. And that's essentially what they're doing now. Like don't promote abortion stigma. That's like their big thing now. Let's talk about the Planned Parenthood employee conferences or get-togethers. This was kind of depicted in your movie unplanned.

Like when they're doing these employee, I don't know what you call it, like meetings, conventions, whatever, where everybody gets together, what goals or expectations do they set there for employees? I mean, is there a raw, raw abortion mentality like that woman at the Women's March or no? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's very like pro. I mean, it's very pro abortion, right? So, I mean, like you're, it's very much like, yeah, we're going to do as many abortions as we can, you know, this year.

And, but a lot of the conference is, it's actually really. interesting because like I remember one of it's a lot of breakout sessions where you go and like you listen to people who are doing sort of like I don't know like cutting edge things I guess like an abortion care. It's a weird way to say it. But like I remember going into a talk from a late term abortion provider. And he was talking about how like the way that that he provided like provided late term abortion care to women. And he was like, it was like, you know, enlightening us, all of us that didn't provide late-term abortion care.

And so he was talking to us about it. And he was telling us, you know, like, well, what we do for our patients is we give them biohazard bags to take home with them. And it's like a hotel kit. And so we give them biohazard bags. We give them scissors to come. cut the umbilical cord because many times they will deliver their baby in the hotel. And so we tell them, go ahead and cut the umbilical cord, deliver the placenta, put everything in the biohazard bag and bring it back up to our facility.

And then they actually like incinerate the babies. They cremate the babies at their facility. And so he was like bragging about, you know, this amazing, you know, birthing bag, basically that they give to their patients. And so, I mean, I remember being like, that's disgusting. But that's, it's sort of like that. Like there, you're like, when you look around, okay, when you're at this employee summit or whatever, and you're looking around at all these other Planned Parenthood employees while somebody is talking about, you know, here's some scissors to cut your, your clients, um, belcal cord off and do all these different things. Does everybody have a look on their face of like, wow, yeah, this is amazing, like pure joy?

Or are people kind of horrified and confused like you were feeling? Like, it was sort of mixed. Like I remember like my boss was like, man, I wish we could do late term abortions. Like I wish we could do that. And I was like, oh, dear God. Like I'm so glad we're not doing that at our clinic. But like it was really like a mix. But the majority of people there, they saw these people like Dr.

Tiller like when I worked there like Dr. George Tiller who was shot and everything. Like he was a hero. I mean like people like hero worshipped him. And I mean, he was killing late term babies. right, like almost up until birth. Are any Planned Parenthood clinics in the United States performing late-term abortion? No, they generally stop at about 24 weeks, all Planned Parenthoods.

It's private clinics that do like after 24 weeks. But these doctors like Curtis Boyd and Leroy, Leroy Carhart, George Tiller, Warren, Hearn, Shelley Sella, all these like late-term abortionists, oh my gosh, it's like freaking hero worship at these at these conferences. They can't go anywhere with. without having like a line of people, like, waiting to talk to them. It's sick. How would you describe the office culture at your Planned Parenthood Clinic?

Did it feel repressive? Like, do people walk on eggshells in the break room because they're afraid of saying anything that might suggest that they have doubts about the work that they're doing? Or is everybody like in really good spirits? No. It was very much, no, it, it was very much like a. very much like sort of a team feeling, but it was like a, uh, us versus them sort of mentality. So you start it was like you hear about like a bunker mentality like in in combat like in the war like that's sort of what it felt like. Like we were

always on the defensive. You know, we're always like fighting. You know, like we're fighting for something that's important. Um, but you were made to feel scared all the time. You were made to feel fearful. So, you know, we had FBI agents. We had marshals. We had, you know, Texas Rangers. We had people that would come into our facilities. We had like bomb squad experts that would come into our facilities on a regular basis. And they would, you know, tell us about how, you know, pro-lifers are out to kill us. And, you know, we have to be extra careful. And somebody may come and put a bomb in our clinic. Did you ever genuinely feel like pro-lifers were trying to kill you when you were pro-choice

and working at Planned Parenthood? I mean, yeah. I felt like, I felt like that every day. I was made to feel terrified by all of these, like, law enforcement people. Like, I thought, oh, my gosh, these people are trying to kill me. Like, and that's how you're made to feel. Like, that's very intentional that you're made to feel like so. scared when really like there's not a threat right but it's just so you're just made to feel so

scared and it just heightens this division between you and the people outside who are really they just really want to help you right they just really want to help the women going in but it's just this heightened anxiety this like heightened fear all the time are abort but on the inside I mean like with the people that I worked with like we were all very close I mean until you're not. Yeah. Like you're all very close until you decide

you don't want to be in an abortion clinic anymore. Exactly. So when you guys are working together like is there any room? Is there any freedom to be outwardly disturbed by anything that you see? Like was there ever any moment

where other employees were like, man, that was like a brutal thing to watch today. No, definitely not. I'm just used to it. No. I mean, there were, like we had a couple of employees that were like actively Catholic.

And I mean, I say that. Like, I hate to say they were like really practicing their faith. But I mean, like they did go to mass and stuff. Right. But they worked in the clinic. And they pretty much like worked up front. And they didn't really go into the back. They like just handled money and stuff.

And I remember just one time. there was like we had like a pretty large like a 14 week set of twins that were aborted. And for whatever reason, someone had talked one of them into going back into the POC lab, like to see what the babies look like. And what is a POC lab for people that haven't ever seen your movie unplanned? Yeah, POC Lab is the products of conception lab. That's where we would piece the babies back together. and like this one worker like never went back there.

She was like, no, that's disgusting. Like I'm never going back there. And this Catholic lady for some reason, like they talked her into going back there. And they were like, no, it's so cool. Like you need to go see it. Like it looks so neat. These like twins. And she went back there and she was just totally disgusted by it.

And she was just like, I can't believe y'all did those abortions on those babies so far along. And she was like, I'm never going back. again. Like that was really the only time I remember somebody like being outwardly disgusted, you know, by something that happened. But no, you just never, I remember my boss talking very openly about her approval of abortions up until, you know, the day to birth. And you just did not speak against that. I mean, it's just, and that's the way it is. And, in, in, like pro abortion culture, there's just so much sort of unity in that culture that even if you're against it, even if you're against something, even if you're like, ugh, not really like for that.

I mean, it sounds like you indoctrination. You don't speak against it. You just go with it. Whatever it is, you just go with it. You had told me when we had met last spring, I think, something about how you really felt like there was some spiritual warfare going on with your boss at Planned Parenthood. could you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So my boss was raised Catholic and she had like just, I don't know, sort of like some crazy stuff happened in her life and got divorced and became a lesbian and all this stuff.

And anyway, she ended up becoming like an atheist, I guess, or agnostic or something. But there were like times at the clinic. I I remember we had this religious sister praying outside. It's none praying outside. And, you know, I remember going into my office one day and she was and my boss was like standing at the window and like looking outside. And I was like, what are you doing? And she's like, did you see that none out there? And I was like, yeah, I saw her, you know. And she's like, she's been out there like for hours. And I was like, yeah, okay. I mean, like there, you know, like the protest is. were out there all day, every day. And I was like, yeah, and she's like, when is she going to leave? Like, when do you think she's going to leave? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, they're out there all day.

Like, why are you so bothered? She was so, like, bothered by the presence. I mean, I'm saying this. I'm genuinely saying this in a very serious manner. Do you think that there was some demonic possession stuff going on with that woman? I mean, I think they're very, very well could have been. Like, she, um, she would say like some of the most vile, things like I've ever heard like come out of somebody's mouth like um she like I hate to even say

this out loud but like she would make jokes about like um like the aborted babies like looking like something to eat like looking like like barbecue. Oh my gosh. Um she had um she had like she had like she was like oh let's make like uh, uh, she would say things like when the coalition for life when the pro life group moved in next door, she's like, let's make, let's make cookies for them shaped in like babies and let's make the icing red. So it looks like blood.

Oh my gosh. Like it was, it was weird. Like she was really, really like, like obsessed with abortion. And, and she would make jokes about like babies coming out,

like alive and how they would be like crying when they would come out and do you think she was joking or do you think those were things that she had seen in her career? No, I think those were probably things she had seen. Um, and she just thought it was funny. Um, so I think, I think that when you work in the industry, she had worked in the industry for a long time and, um, like three times as long as I did. Um, I think when you are in the industry for a long time, I think that, you know, you become very vulnerable. to like demonic oppression. I think you,

you know, become very vulnerable to those sorts of attacks. And, you know, I, like, I don't, I'm not like super like hyper spiritual in that way. You know, like, but I do think that that kind of stuff happens.

Um, and I think that that's very real. And we've, we've seen that kind of stuff. We've heard about that kind of stuff happening like an abortion clinics and things like that. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to worry about your business being canceled? Because the majority of your customers share your values,

that can be your reality by advertising your product or business on the spillover. If you want to learn more about advertising two cute servatives, email ads at TPSA.com. Gain like-minded customers and help fund and support one of the fastest growing podcasts for conservative young women. While you were telling that story, you wouldn't be able to hear it. And listeners wouldn't obviously be able to hear it. But I could hear all of my producers who are behind glass in a padded room or a soundproof room or whatever.

All gasp so loud at those examples that you just gave that I could even hear it through the padded. Yeah. Well, I mean, because it's that shocking, I think, to people. And people think that, you know, these are just like myths and legends and folklore, essentially that pro-life people make up, you know, to paint the pro-abortion lobby a certain way. But you were an employee. You were pro-choice and you were working there. And those were your real experiences of things that your boss was saying to you. Yeah. I think, and I think like, you know, the jokes that we used to say, like, you know, like calling the, the freezer that we

kept the babies in, like calling that the nursery, you know. Our code to get into the building was 2-2-29 because that spell that baby. Like that kind of stuff, like, people are like, ugh, like that's gross. Like that's, it's like macab, you know? It's like this really like dark humor. But I tell people, I'm like, that's nothing. I mean, like, that's nothing.

Like, you should have heard the stuff that came out of people's mouths. Like, it's gross. Like, I mean, and it's so much darker and like so much more demonic than people could ever imagine. I remember the first time, one of the, like, it's probably my first week working at the clinic. We had this guy that worked there. His name was Aaron. And he, he didn't work there actually very long. But he told me he was like, Abby, he was like, don't ever come up here at night by yourself. And I was like, why? And he was like, because girl, I swear to God, you can hear babies crying in the hallway. Stop. And I was like. And he was serious. Yeah, he was dead serious.

What did you think in the moment? Did you think like, yeah, like I can believe that or really? Like, no way. I mean, I was like, okay. I mean, I was like, okay, that's weird. Okay, but in a pro choice, like, go back to pre-pro-life Abby Johnson. Okay, this is before. In that moment, did that, like, resonate with you like, okay, if what we're doing is not killing human beings,

why would there be, you know, someone saying that you could hear sounds of baby crying at night in the hallway? Like, did any of that click, like, were ending the lives of human beings at all? I mean, I just remember thinking like, well, that's, that's weird, you know? But I think, I think, I think, like, I, okay, first of all, like, everybody needs to remember I'd already had an abortion by that time. Okay. So I was already, like, neck deep in, like, denial of, like, the human person of an unborn child, right? So I was already like super in denial of that. Like, I mean, and so I think for me, I think I didn't want to believe stuff like that was true.

You know, I was like, okay. And, you know, like whatever that whatever. Because if you were to admit that an unborn baby, what am I having to admit? Yes. Then I'm having to admit. Yeah. That I killed my own child. Right.

And I think that's why so many like that's why so many people are. pro-choice right now. I think that's why so many women are pro-choice because, you know, one in three women have had an abortion in our country. So depending on the stat you look at, one in three, one and four, it's still a lot. So that's so many women who have walked down that road, who have laid on that table, right? And so if they come around to the idea that abortion is wrong, that abortion is, you know, taking the life of a human being, then what are they having to admit, right? They're having to admit that they took the life of their own child. Like, that is a big responsibility. That's a big burden. So it's a lot easier to be like,

nah, it wasn't really a life. Do you think that that's one of the biggest things that's preventing the pro-life side of the abortion debate into breaking through and changing minds is because so many of the people whose minds were trying to change have actually had an abortion themselves and it's so hard to get them to admit what abortion is because then they'd have to reconcile with that fact. 100%. Yeah. So how do you,

how do you, right, how do you do that? How do you show that sympathy to those women, but still get them to agree that it's ending a human life? I tell people like, I, okay, first of all, you're never going to win an argument on Facebook. Okay. Like, you're never going to win an argument like in a 365. comment like debate on Facebook or Twitter or whatever. So like just don't do it. Um,

and like, but I, I tell people like when I talk to women and, you know, and I talk to them about abortion, I'm always just like asking questions. I'm like so, you know, they tell me like, I've had an abortion. I'm like, oh, I'm like, well, you know, what what led you to have an abortion? You know, why did you feel like you needed to have an abortion? Um, and, you know, they'll tell me. I'll be like, oh, well, I didn't, you know, I didn't have support. I didn't feel like, you know, and I'm like, oh, I'm really sorry to hear that you didn't feel like you had support, you know. And I just try to empathize with them, you know, because I've known what it's like to feel

alone. I've known what it's like to feel unsupported in a situation. Like even if it wasn't an unplanned pregnancy, right? I think we all know what it feels like to feel alone or unsupported or, you know, whatever. And so I'm like, oh, I'm really sorry. You know, you felt unsupported. And I'll ask him a question, like, you know, what do you think? What do you think could have changed in your life at that moment so that you wouldn't have had an abortion?

How do you think we could better serve women? And I just start getting their opinions about stuff. And I start asking them questions. And a lot of times just hearing their opinion and letting them know that like their voices matter and their voices are important. And we want to hear from them. and we want to engage them in this process. And I'm like, and a lot of times I'm like, oh, well, let me tell you what I do. You know, like I, a lot of times I know what I do.

But I'm like, you know, let me tell you what I do. Like I run a ministry called Loveline and we support moms who are pregnant. We support single moms. We support single dads. We pay their rent. We pay their utilities. We help them get, you know, budgeting assistance. We, you know, pay for daycare.

We, you know, like I tell them, I'm like, do you think that would have been helpful to you? you know, do you think that would have made you feel more supported? And like when you tell them, like, this is what we're doing to help women. This is what we're actually doing to fill in that gap. A lot of times they're like, oh, wow, like I didn't know, I didn't know that was available. All right. They'll say, I wish that would have been available for me. And so just letting them know, like, this is out there. And do you want to be involved in it? We've had, we've had women that have contacted us at Love Line that have donated to us. They're like, you know what, I'm actually pro-choice, but I'm going to donate to what you're doing.

Because I wish I would have had that help when I was pregnant. And that's one step in bringing them over into our position. Do you think that most of the women or workers, well, yeah, I guess women. That was stupid. Do you think most of the women who work at Planned Parenthood have had abortions because you were an employee that had also had an abortion? Like, is that a common thread? Yeah. So we think about our S&S.

is about 70% of the people who work there, the women who work there have had abortions. Yeah. That's one of the things that sort of draws them in, I think. One of the most interesting things about Planned Parenthood that I've learned in the last couple years is just how ingrained they are in American culture. And I wanted to ask you about their influence. You know, what does Planned Parenthood do to involve themselves in culture that people don't even know about? Yeah. So, there was a, what's really interesting, actually,

I think most people don't know about is they have this entire at the Federation, so at Planned Parenthood of America, they have this entire department that's called like their,

I can remember what it's called, but it's like their culture department or something. And it's like media and culture department. And they have people that work full time that are on staff, full time that work with TV, producers, movie producers, like movie executives. And all they do full time is influence writers

and producers to normalize abortion in film and TV. And that's all they do full time. So a lot of times we'll see abortion scenes like, you know, we see them in scandal. We see them in Gray's anatomy. You know, you see them in all these other TV shows. You see it in movies. There was a movie that came out called Unpregnant that was specifically about abortion. You saw another movie came out that came out that was specifically about abortion called Never Rarely, Sometimes Always. You see, you know, films like that are really normalizing and really almost like glamorizing abortion. That is thanks to primarily this department at PPSA, at Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

And they are working to really infiltrate our culture in these ways so that Planned Parenthood just seems normal so that it seems sterile, bloodless, painless. That's the image of abortion that they want America to see. Would it ever be possible for a pro-life organization to have the opportunity to partner with script writers and Hollywood producers and movie making houses and all this different stuff to have a pro-life say put into scripts

or would Hollywood never ever work with us? I mean, it would be, it would be pretty, pretty difficult for them, you know, to work with us. They just, it's just not in Hollywood culture to promote the sanctity of human life. You know, I've thought, about creating a sort of like a ratings board, like a pro-life ratings board, where we have like former abortion workers, people who have actually worked in the industry, like former

abortion doctors, like creating this ratings board where, you know, every time abortion is in a TV show or a film or whatever, that these, this board actually rates it on accuracy. You know what this reminds me of Abby is plugged in by focus on the family. Yeah, sort of like that, but it would just be specifically for abortion. Like, is this accurate? Is this really what abortion is? Is this really what an abortion clinic looks like? And sort of giving a rating, you know, like A through F or whatever for accuracy and putting

it out there publicly. And then being a resource to people, you know, whether it's, you know, secular film or whether it's Christian film or whatever, like we want to help you as you're tackling this topic. Like we want to help you be accurate as you're as you're tackling this very unfortunately controversial and difficult topic in film. Speaking of abortion in movies, the most powerful scene, I think most would argue in your movie unplanned, which is based on your book of the same name, was the abortion scene where you are depicted when. you had a chemical abortion, correct? Yes, that's right. So after taking the abortion pill.

And at this year's pro-life, at this year's March for Life last week, there was a man there who was going around making videos and he came up to me. I knew that he was definitely on the pro-choice side. And he asked me, you know,

would you want women who take the abortion pill to be prosecuted? And I thought that was interesting. And I thought about your movie and you going through. that. I mean, if you were asked that, how would you have responded to that question? You know, it's, um, it's an, it's an interesting question. I mean, I think it's one that, um,

you know, we really have, we really have to weigh, right? Um, we, I've, you know, when I first, when I first became pro life, I was, you know, I was very much against prosecution of women. Um, like in all, in all cases. I was like, no, we, definitely no, we can't, you know, prosecute women. The longer that I've that I've been in this movement, and I think the longer that I've been away from Planned Parenthood, and the more sort of brazen I've seen abortion become in our society and women having, you know, gosh, I just watched,

I just did a video on this woman who took an abortion pill on TV, right? I mean, abortion is supposed to be this like private thing, right, between a woman and her doctor. And then you've got women taking abortion pills on TV. You know, you've got women, you know, proudly proclaiming that they're having, you know, five, six, seven abortions. You've got abortion pills, you know, being shipped in, you know, through the mail. I think our culture's changing. I think people are becoming. I don't think abortion is as a delicate issue as it used to be.

I don't think women are as, I don't think they're agonizing over this decision as maybe they used to be. And if we really believe that the unborn, the preborn are human beings, then I think we have to act like it. And if we're going to act like it, then I think that, you know, there has to be penalty under the law for taking the life. A lot of people in the pro-life movement would disagree with you on this, you know, Abby. I know. I know. They would. Now, I'm not saying that, you know, we, that we have to lock every woman up or whatever. That's not what I'm saying. but I have come to a position where I believe that there does need to be due process.

And there would be some women who have absolutely been forced and coerced into making. Or just completely ignorant and have no idea. Completely ignorant. Have no idea what's going on. you know, their parents have forced them into making this decision. Should they be prosecuted? Absolutely not. But there are women who are very knowingly, very selfishly making the decision to have

nine, 10, 12 abortions who are taking abortions on the steps of the Supreme Court out in the open, who are taking the abortion pill on national TV. do I believe that those women should go through some sort of possible prosecution for the murder of their child? Yeah, I think there should be some justice there. And I think there should be some due process. And so I have sort of come to a different opinion on that as I've watched our culture change. Now, you took the abortion pill yourself. I think there is a huge problem.

with this false perception of the abortion pill, like it's just as easy as popping an aspirin. You took it. Can you please describe the reality of what that felt like, how quickly the effects came in and all of that? Yeah. So, you know, the abortion pill is a series of pills. So you take the first pill, which is Miphrastone, Mithoprax.

That's the actual RU46 part of the pill. That's the pill that actually kills the baby or is intended to kill the baby. I deprised the baby of progesterone, which is essentially food for the baby. After I took that pill, I didn't feel anything. I felt fine. I felt nothing. But then you go home.

They send you home with four pills. And that's the, that's the misoprostal. Those pills are designed to basically send you into labor. And so you, your uterus contracts. you begin to go, you begin to have contractions and you expel the baby at home. That's, that's the intention. And, you know, what society tells people, what Planned Parenthood tells people, what the abortion industry tells people is that this is going to be like, it's going to be like a period, you're going to have some bleeding. And, you know, you'll be back to normal after you expel

the baby and everything's going to be fine. The reality is that, you know, about 20% of women have very serious complications from taking this pill. They have hemorrhagic bleeding. They have serious infections, including sepsis, which can cause death. Up to 40% of women have very serious nausea, dizziness, vomiting. This is not something that's like a Tylenol, even though that is how it is being described on these. self-managed abortion webcasts that are being pushed everywhere to young women. What do you mean self-managed abortion webcasts?

So that's what that's what the abortion industry is now calling medication abortion that you're getting through the mail. They're calling it self-managed abortion. You know, it's just an at-home abortion, super easy. Take the pills. No big deal. Nobody has to know. And in fact, they're telling women that when you go to the doctor, you tell the doctor that

you had a miscarriage and not an abortion. So they're encouraging women to lock. to their providers. For, I guess, fear that you're going to be stigmatized for having an abortion or, I don't know. But that's what they're actively telling women to lie to your provider. I guess they're saying that you'll get subpar care if you tell a provider that you've had an abortion. And so they're telling them to say that you had a miscarriage. And they're telling these women that taking the medication abortion pills are as safe and are no different than taking Tylenol.

But I can tell you that when I took the four pills at home, almost immediately, I started having cramping. I started hemorrhaging. I passed my baby actually in the shower and had to, you know, pick up my baby off the shower floor, put my baby in the toilet, had to make a decision, you know, to flush my baby down the toilet. And blood and blood and blood. I didn't stop bleeding heavily for eight weeks. And was it painful or just a lot of blood?

It was incredibly painful. I didn't realize, and I hadn't had any children then. So I didn't really realize like what I was feeling at the time. But I was really feeling labor contractions. How far long were you? I was only eight weeks. So, I mean, eight weeks. And now the FDA has approved medication abortion up to 10 weeks, which means

Planned Parenthood is giving it out at 12 weeks. So, I mean, this is, these, women are delivering babies that are fully formed that are several inches long. And I mean, they're seeing their fully formed baby come out of them in the toilet. And who knows what this is doing to women psychologically? I mean, to see their baby come out of them. And then, you know, they're having to sort of return to the scene of the crime over and over again, their bathroom after they flushed their child down the toilet. And there is an abortion pill reversal. that women can do, right? If they've done this and they want to reverse it, there's a certain

period of time you can try to reverse the abortion pill. There is. So there's a reversal process that you can do after you've taken the first pill. So after you've taken the mithaprex, there's a reversal process. It's essentially a massive dose of progesterone to reverse the side effects of the mithrax, which is trying to cut off the progesterone to your, baby. So you just start supplementing an enormous dose of progesterone and pumping that into your system. It's been very successful. It's been very effective. And you can go to abortion pill reversal.com. There's physicians all over the country that are giving out the reversal if someone takes the pill and then makes a different decision and wants to save their baby.

I think because of the March for Life happening last week and stuff, a lot of more left-wing publications have come out, of course, in full throttle, just praising abortion and abortion rights and all these different things. And I told you, I wanted to ask you a few things about this Glamour magazine article. So in case you haven't seen it, Glamour magazine just published an article that opened with this. They said that they did this study called the Turnaway Study, which followed nearly a thousand women over five years. They said that they found that abortion does not harm women and that women who are refused abortion have worse outcomes in the long run in terms of health, financial stability, and the safety of their children. The article went on to state something that I found to be disgusting, just totally disgusting. They said, the next time that you're in an argument about abortion rights, tell whoever you're talking to that there's no need to get emotional. This is so condescending.

they can simply read the facts. So, Abby, I'm going to tell you some of these facts that they said and then I want to hear what you have to say. So the first claim by Glamour magazine said 95% of women who receive abortions reported immediately and five years after that their abortion was the right decision. What do you make of the 95%? Yeah, I mean, I would say that's probably, I would say that's probably accurate. I mean, I didn't, I would say after my abortions, I felt relief. I would say most women, probably within that five, five to seven year period, that's probably right. They probably do feel relief. You know, we know from trauma studies that most women who have experienced some

sort of traumatic event don't actually experience that trauma and relive that trauma until 10 to 20 years later. Wow. So, you know, asking a woman, you know, five years after that event, you know, how do you feel? It's not really a good representation of whether she's going to have regret over taking the life of her child. I, you know, I would say that that's, that's, that's probably accurate. I would say 95% is, is probably accurate. What they need to do is a longer term study. you know, which hasn't been done. I think it's intentionally, it intentionally hasn't been done. All of these studies that are done about post-abortion loss and regret are always stopped at five years.

This is very interesting. There has never been a long-term study done by a pro-choice group, by like a reproductive justice group that went past five years. never, ever. Another claim that glamour said, per the study, is that there is zero evidence that getting an abortion has any negative effects whatsoever on a woman's well-being or mental health.

What do you have to say to that? I mean, I think that that's a, I mean, that's a big claim. I would like to know how they're measuring that, which I did look at the study and they didn't give an explanation as to how they're measuring. measuring that. There have been other studies done, which did list out the measurement tool

that showed that women who have had abortions are six times more likely to commit suicide. They're more likely to have an eating disorder. They're more likely to have depression, to have signs of anxiety. The fact that they're not showing their measurement tool here and they're making a big claim like that is pretty pretty interesting to me let's shift gears to a controversy that recently surfaced with you a couple months ago you called out this woman jennifer christie of love louder um that's another pro-life non-profit right yeah okay that's right and then your organization pro-love ministries was affiliated with her and jennifer for those that don't know jennifer had maintained this story about surviving a brutal rape she said that she became pregnant

but eventually you felt like the story didn't add up because dates didn't ultimately align with her claims. You posted on Facebook that there was no evidence of police reports. Jennifer refused to back her story with police and medical reports after it began to change and even the ultrasound that she showed as part of her story didn't add up. And for years, her and her husband raised thousands of dollars to allegedly pay for surgeries that were necessary because of her rape, but she wouldn't even provide evidence that those surgeries ever even happened. So you, being the confident voice that you are, called her out on Facebook because you didn't feel like the truth in her story was evident. And now multiple people in the

pro-life movement are calling for your cancellation. And I thought when I first heard about this, I thought this story reminded me kind of of Jesse Smollett. I mean, before anyone called out Jesse Smollett, if you remember, Don Jr. was the first to say, okay, guys, something is not adding up here. And at first, people were like, well, how dare you not believe Jesse's story? And now, of course, we know Don was right. So I guess I wanted to ask you here and now, I mean, what caused you to start asking questions about this Jennifer woman? You know, she's an alleged rape victim and someone who you at one time considered your friend. Yeah. Yeah, it's really a sad story, actually. And it's, it's been really tragic. Her, the only only

actually came out about it was because her organization Love Louder was an affiliate partner of my organization, ProLove Ministries, and we had taken her on as an affiliate partner. And people were donating to her because I had endorsed her organization. And so I felt like I had a responsibility to come out with the information that I knew. we originally got a phone call from a woman who knew her that was a pastor's wife who had known her who was on the board of a pregnancy center back in her previous hometown where she had lived and she came forward and said look I don't know if you guys have vetted Jennifer's story but she's a well-known fabricator teller of tales that's why she moved from the town that she was in and somebody needs to vet her story because her story is not true. And we all know it's not true. This is why she moved. Somebody needs to to figure this out and vet her story. I immediately thought, oh, this woman's lying. Like this is not true, right? The woman who at first called gender allegations. I thought,

oh, who would, who would question this? Right. Like, so I defended her. I started. I started. I stood up for her. I told her we will get you lawyers, you know, to, to combat this slander. This is terrible, right? And I had told her, you know, look, you need to, but what you do need to do is she had always said that there was, there was a police report, that she had access to the police report, she had access to her medical records, all this stuff. And I said, look, Jennifer, what you do need to do is you need to have that police report available because this, this happens, right? I mean, if you're a public figure, if you're a public speaker, if you're making these claims, you need to have something to back up your story, right? I mean, I have my business card.

I had my business card from when I was working at Planned Parenthood. Like, I have my, I mean, I said I was the employee of the year at Planned Parenthood. I had my award from when I was a point, you know, I mean, like I said Planned Parenthood had quotas. I have my budget sheet proving there was quotas, right? So I mean, like, if you make a claim, you need to be able to sort of back it up, right? And I said, so, you know, not that anybody's going to. ask for it, but you need to just have it available just in case. You'd have this police report. You'd have your medical records and all this. And she said, yeah, I'm definitely going to do that. Well, this woman ended up calling Focus on the Family. Focus on the family was writing her book,

ended up calling her Speaker's Bureau. And they started requesting these records, which they have ever reason to. I mean, Focus on the Family is publishing her book for goodness sake, right? And so they just wanted some evidence to put it to bed and to be able to tell this woman, uh-uh, we've seen it. We've seen the police report. We've seen the records. You have nothing to stand on, you know, so that they could back her up as well. She ended up saying that if she had to provide any records to anybody that she was pulling out of the book deal. That doesn't make any sense. And that was a big red flag. Yeah. And so, and so that's when I started. started to worry, you know, like in my, in my betting on the wrong horse here. And so that was when

we started doing a little bit of investigation. She had always said that a big part of her story was that, you know, there was snow on the ground. There was a huge snowstorm, all this kind of stuff. She had said for seven years that the rape had taken place on January 11th, 2014 in Wilmington, North Carolina. We looked at the at the dates. We looked at the weather. It was 72 degrees on January 11th. Oh my gosh. It had not snowed that day. The only day that it had snowed was on January 28th. And so we went to her without information. She said, well, I must have gotten the date wrong. It must have been January 28th. I don't know anyone that survives a traumatic. I'm just telling you. I don't know. And this is this. Anyone who goes through a traumatic attack like that, whether that,

that's rape or anything, like you know, you know the day that happened. You know, like the smells in the air, what things looked like, like the noises around you, right? I mean, isn't that fair to say? I mean, I was like, okay, like I was going to give her, I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Okay, like maybe you didn't know trauma. I don't, maybe. Okay.

So I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Okay, January 28th. That's, okay. It happened January 28th. And so I said, okay, well, you know how you put this to bed? just show the police report, right? Show focus on the family of the police report. Show your speaking agency the police report. No, not going to do it, not going to do it. We found out that in the state of North Carolina, sexual assault records are not protected. And so all of that is public record. All police reports are public record. We ended up looking on January 28th. We ended up looking through the whole month of January. There was no police report in her name.

There was no Jane Doe police report that matched any of her demographics. We ended up calling the police department asking if there were any police reports in her name. Any Jane Doe police reports that we were missing. They said no, we have no record of her on file. Abby, do you know the woman who faked being a 9-11 survivor, Tanya Head? Have you ever heard that story? That's called the woman who wasn't there. There's a woman who made up this whole thing for years and years and years.

she was the president of the 9-11 Survivors, like, association club or something like that. Like she made a whole persona about being this 9-11 survivor. The whole thing was fake. She wasn't even in the country at the time. This story is like similar to that making up this entire story of going through a tragedy to make a bunch of money and get some fame and stuff. And then the whole thing isn't even true.

But that wasn't even it. So I was like, okay, I mean, I was, so by this point, I'm like, okay, this is like getting crazy, right? there's no police report. There's no evidence of any of this. I'm like, okay, I'm like, Jennifer, what hotel? She said she got attacked to the hotel. I'm like, what hotel is it? This was seven years ago. Surely there's somebody there that remembers this happening. I mean, this was a huge deal. You were found naked in a stairwell. Like somebody's going to remember that, right? Right. Like, give me the name of the hotel. We'll call the hotel. We'll verify. Would not give out the name of the hotel.

Would not get any verifying information about it. Still wouldn't give out the police report. she had given us an ultrasound that was the dates were tampered with. What? And then admitted the dates were tampered with. She said that in her story, this is public information. This is not me telling anything that she hasn't made public. In her story, she said that during the attack, she had multiple fingers broken. She had multiple ribs broken.

She said she had a subdural hematoma in her brain. she said that the guy had broken a glass bottle up her rectum. And so she had to have, you know, it was very, very traumatic, very, very brutal, right? So she said that she found out that she was pregnant on a cruise that she was working on translating for, she was interpreting ASL, American Sign Language, okay? Two weeks, now it would be two weeks after the attack on a cruise. She found out she was pregnant. two weeks later on a cruise after having a bottle broken up your rectum, a subdural hematoma in your brain,

multiple fingers broken, multiple ribs broken. How are you using your hands interpreting ASL two weeks after multiple fingers were broken? I don't think anything that you're like, I feel like the questions you're asking are super fair. It sounds like you've done extreme thorough research into this. you're asking fair questions. So I don't understand why they won't answer the question. So now I became a villain because I was simply asking questions. Why are people trying to cancel you for this? Well, they just want because you can't question a rape survivor. That's that's the thing, right? So you can't question anyone who says, I've been raped. And it's, it's really a, it's really a sad thing that we're in in our society, right?

like the Me Too has created this, this Me Too movement is like created this monster, right? Because the bottom line is that women do lie about being raped. We know that. And those women should be held accountable. And in the meantime, this woman has raised close to $100,000 from the pro life movement on surgeries that never existed. So where's the money going?

That's what I want to know. Where's the money? I mean, that's the thing. we looked up her criminal record. We looked up, we did a background check on her. It's just 16 criminal charges on her record. No way. Her husband has 30 criminal charges.

Holy crap. This could be like a massive con deal. Like what is going on? And I mean, it's, it's so crazy. It's so ridiculous. And, but I'm there, but this group of people and the saddest thing, Alex, is that this group of people that's like trying to cancel. cancel me now, which whatever they can do what they want. This group of people, they are actually

all assault survivors. And this woman, Jennifer, has lured them in. And because she's faking this or whatever, you know, she's got all this trauma or whatever. She has lured them in. And she is now exploiting their real trauma. Right. And that's the saddest thing to me. That's what makes me the most angry about it is that she's using them. Jennifer's story aside, why do you think there are some people in the pro-life movement that just do not like you? You know, I'm very, I mean, I'm very mildy. I mean, let's just be honest.

Well, I think that there's two types of people like in the pro-life movement. Okay, this is what I've noticed. And you've been involved in are, you know, way more of an activist in the pro-life movement than me. I'm such a newbie to this world. But what I've noticed is that there's two people. There's like an Abby Johnson type or a Kristen Hawkins type, right, which is like really aggressive like balls to the wall, you know, part of my French, but just like hard hitting. Here's the freaking truth.

I don't care if it hurt your feelings. Abortion is murder types. Then you have like the Lila Rose, the Josh Brahms, who are like more like really soft and squishy and stuff, which is great too. But there's just total polar opposites. And so is there sort of like a competitive thing, not necessarily between those names I just mentioned, but just those types of stuff. Is there a little bit of a competitive streak in the pro-life movement between like what's best for women? I don't know. I mean, like I feel like I mean, I guess it's sort of like a love or hate sort of thing, you know, with people like me or Kristen, like people, you know, they either really love us or they really hate us. You know, I think, okay, well, let me say this.

I was much more liked in the pro-life movement before I came out and endorsed Trump. That made a lot of people dislike me, especially like the more liberal-leaning pro-lifers. They hate my guts. So like liberal-leaning pro-lif, which is fine. I don't have a use for them anyway. So like I, because I'm like super conservative and, you know, I'm not moderate at all, I don't. They really, they don't have time for me. I don't have time for them.

So I'm just like, I don't want to find common ground with you guys. I don't believe in BLM BS. I don't believe in any of that, you know. So I'm not going to try to find common ground with any of you guys. So they just dislike me just outright, you know, which is fine. But I think, I think on the whole, like, Like I think the pro life movement, I think the bulk of the pro life movement likes me. And I think they like the work that I do.

It's a small group that does not like me. But I believe that they're more of like the fringe of the pro life movement. Is there a lot of inviting within the pro life movement? I don't think so. I'm not not there used to be more than there than there is now. That's good. I think we have so many female leaders right now in the pro-life movement. And we all get along great.

So I think like when there were a lot of like male leaders, there was like a lot of like this sort of like pissing contest. But now that there's like a lot of female leaders in the pro-life movement, like we all get along really great. We love each other. We're like we have this big group text. You know, like I love that. Yeah. So we really get along really well. we're not trying to compete.

Like we're really trying to help each other and help like push each other's organizations and, you know, what are you doing? How can I help? You know, so. The first time we met, you told me a story at dinner that had me on the edge of my seat. It was about this pro light or sorry, it was about this abortion clinic in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Please tell us the story. You know which one I'm talking about.

Okay. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, I was like one of the first speaking engagements I did. And I'm pretty sure it's, it's for a group. I think it's called Life Institute now or something like that. And so I'd gone up there to tour their facility. I was speaking like for their fundraiser or something. And they were like, oh, stop by, you know, our facility.

It used to be an abortion clinic. So anyway, I was there. and it used to, so the facility used to be a synagogue. And then this abortion, this abortionist bought it and turned the synagogue into an abortion clinic. And then, um, all of a sudden just one day, he just like picked up and left. Nobody really knew. Nobody still knows like what happened. He just like picked up and left one day, left all the instruments there, left everything there. He just like picked up and moved out one day. So then this pro-life group ended up buying it and converting it into this like pro-life space.

So anyway, they left one room as it was like as like an abortion procedure room. People can go in there and like look at it and like look at the tools and all this kind of stuff. Right. So anyway, so one day this lady was driving by and this was after they had converted everything and whatever. This lady was driving by. She gets out of her car. She goes in and she's like, hey, I just want to tell you, I drive by this building every day. And she said, I just wanted to thank you so much for taking down those hideous gargoyles that were at the top of the building. And they were like, like, we didn't do anything to the outside of the building. Like we just

renovated the inside. We didn't do anything to the outside. And she's like, yeah, you did. Like there were these gargoyles like at the top of each corner at the building. And they were like, no, ma'am. We did not remove anything. And she's like, listen, I drive by here every single day on my way to work. And there were gargoyles perched on the corners of this building. And she's like, and now they're gone. That is the shookees thing. I've ever heard in my life. I know. So wait, but I tell you about the inside, though?

No. When they did like mass inside the building. Okay. So they had a priest come. This is even crazy. So they had a priest come. My friend was there actually during mass. So this is like like no crap.

So they were in the building. They were like saying mass. They had a priest come. They were saying mass inside the building. And, and so they're like doing, they're like at the part of the Eucharist. They're doing the Eucharist. And so the priest like holds up, you know, like the wafer, like the host for consecration. And all the doors in the facility, this is the same same facility, all the doors in the facility like bust open.

No. Yeah. And this like wind goes like through the, through the halls. The back door opens up and then closes, slam shut. Okay, this entire story, like this could be the premise for a new thriller movie. I know, right? For like a freaking novel or something, like scary movie. I know.

Oh! So, like all this stuff has happened like in that building is crazy. See, this is what it's like whenever I'm with Abby is she tells me stuff like this. She'll just like all of a sudden she'll just be like, let me tell you about this. And I, that's what I love about you. You're full of all these like wild stories about the abortion industry. I know. It's crazy.

I know. And then like when he did the same thing, then like he did the same thing. then like he did the same thing for like the wine like he held it up and the same freaking thing happened Nope like a wind went through the building the back door like opened and like slam a shot. Oh my gosh. I need I need like you to go and do a little docu series or something about this place because there's just so many things happening there. I feel like we need to talk about it. It's fascinating. Okay two like two more questions for you and then we'll wrap up. We went a little long but that's okay. You've had great stories today. you also told me about how you were working towards becoming a Christian counselor, I believe. Is that still a thing?

Yeah. So, yeah, so I am. So I am a Christian counselor. I'm licensed by the National Christian Counseling Association. And then I'm getting my, I'm actually getting my doctorate. And so I don't really know why, but I'm doing it just to do it. And yeah, I like it. And I, you know, I like being a Christian counselor because, you know, I can talk about abortion. I can talk about my faith. I can, you know, and I don't have to worry about, you know, like a state licensing board coming down on me and being like, you know, you can't talk about your faith. You can't talk about abortion. Do you think it makes a difference for somebody, whether they choose like a secular therapist or a Christian therapist or is it all the same or is there a difference? It makes a huge difference. And I can tell you, I think the latest stats I saw was something like secular counseling,

only, something like secular counseling, I'll quote me on this, but something like secular counseling only works like, it was something like, I don't know, it was like five to 10% of the time Christian counseling works like 93% of the time. Do you think, okay, this is like kind of a therapy conspiracy theory a little bit. Do you think that secular therapist, like they really don't want you to actually get better? because then you would stop coming and then they would stop making money? Or is that totally false? I mean, I think there's, I think there's some truth to that. Like, especially just sort of like talk therapists. I mean, like, let me just say this. If you've been with a therapist for like years and

years and years stop going. I mean, I would say if you've been to the same therapist and you're not making progress and you've been with them for over a year, you need to find a new therapist. That's huge. You should not be in therapy. forever and ever and ever. Like the point of therapy is to go with a problem, make some goals, finish those goals, move on. Like the point of therapy is not to be an unending therapy. It just seems like it's become now this massive business model.

And people want to see the same, I don't know what you call it, patients, clients or whatever for like 10 plus years. And when I hear that, I'm like, bro, what you're doing is not working, exactly what you're saying. Right. Right. And I mean, there are some people who are like, I just don't have like a support system.

And so like my therapist is my support. Okay, that's one thing. They're like friends. But like most people go to therapy because they have a problem in their life that they're trying to work through. And if your therapist is just like perpetuating that problem like for like a year and you're not actually seeing results, then that therapist is not the therapist for you. And you need to find another one that can actually help you.

move through that crisis and move through that problem. I love that. We should do a whole other episode just on therapy because I think that's a fascinating subject. Your nonprofit and then there were none is really neat because you help women working in the abortion industry leave. What does, and then there were none, provide them so they can leave the abortion industry? Yeah. And we're pretty comprehensive. So we do everything. We provide them transitional financial help so they can leave the industry like that day, the day they decided they don't want to work there anymore. We're like, well, then get out. We'll help you pay your bills, whatever, until you get a new job. We have recruiters on staff with us that help them land a new job, help them find a new job, new

employment. We have a professional resume writer on staff that can help them write their resume, update their resume, whatever they need. We also help them. We have licensed professional counselors on staff that help them. A lot of the workers that leave have pretty serious post-traumatic stress. disorder. So we help them work through that. You know, spiritual support, emotional support, whatever they need. We're there to help them. It's really comprehensive. And in a couple weeks, you have a new book coming out. Did you talk about the new book? Yeah. It's called Fierce Mercy. It's coming out March 1st. You can pre-order it now on Amazon and I guess other places,

but just do it on Amazon. It's cheaper. And yeah, it's really, you know, I wanted to do sort of of a follow-up to unplanned, but I didn't want it to just be about like pro-life stuff. I really wanted it to reach a broader audience. And I feel like our society is really in need of mercy in our own lives. And then I, you know, show it how do we show mercy to other people that we encounter? And, you know, God has been so good to me, like showing me mercy every single day of my life. And so I wanted just to sort of talk about that and tell about that and then just practical ways that I've learned how to show mercy to some of our most vulnerable populations. I love that. So Amazon and what's the name of the book again? Fierce Mercy.

Fierce mercy. And where can people find you on social media if they want to just follow you? And then where can they get involved with and then there were none? Yeah, they can, I mean, I'm on all the major social media platforms. Abby Johnson and my website is just abbyjj.com, ABBYJ.com. You can click there and find all my social media platforms too. I also have a podcast called Politely Rude.

You can find that on all the, wherever you get your social media, I mean, your podcast. Perfect name, by the way. Perfect name for you. My husband always said I was politely rude. So I was like, oh, that's a good name for a podcast.

But I like that. You know what I think politely rude is also just a synonym for like, don't back down and use your voice. And that's my favorite thing about you. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And then, yeah, you can also get my books on my website and my other two books that are out.

And, yeah, all things. And then there were none. And then my other ministry that helps women in crisis, single parents in crisis, all that is called Loveline. You can go to Loveline.com. Find out more about that and how you can help. Abby, I so appreciate you hanging out with us on this bill over today. Yeah, of course. Thanks so much for having me.

Everyone needs to share this episode so people learn the truth about what Planned Parenthood's agenda really is from someone who used to be one of the top directors in their organization. Now is not the time to be silent about abortion. There are so many issues where it's like, okay, you know, let's have a conversation about this, but not with this. There is no room to debate the lives of our most innocent members of society. Sorry, not sorry. There's just no excuse, not ever and not now. And there are no words like health care that can put a bow on top of murder. I hear so many young women who claim to be progressive.

You know, they put on their little pink hats and they yell, yay, women! But then they advocate for a death sentence that impacts women. Newsflash. If you've bought into Planned Parenthood's message, you're being lied to. I hope this conversation with Abby Johnson solidified that in your mind today. If you really stand against abortion, it means actively support. Not only the unimportant babies, but the women who are facing the life-changing experience of motherhood. Both women and their babies need to be rallied around now more than ever.

And it starts when all of you speak out on their behalf. Good talk team. All right. I'm feeling hype. Are you feeling hype? We need a little huddle. You know, one, two, three, go. Okay.

But before you go, please be sure to leave a five-star review. Let me know. If you're like Abby, you used to be pro-choice, but now, you stand for life and what you thought of this episode. What you think of Abby Johnson? I don't believe that people are irredeemable. Just like Abby, you can change your mind about this issue. So change someone's mind. Share this episode everywhere with everyone, your kids swim teacher to your neighbor or your sorority sister. My goal is to get this pro-life conversation to the top of the charts. How incredible would that be to have this episode just rock it to the top of society and culture. New episodes of the

spillover drop every Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific and midnight Eastern on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can watch this interview by subscribing to Popl Politics on YouTube. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love you. Mean it. Bye.