Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - "Raising Conservative Kids In A Woke City." - Step By Step With Katy Faust

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

Katy Faust brings the heat again with her parenting advice on raising conservative kids in a woke city. And she speaks from experience, having successfully raised her kids in Seattle, she now has a how-to guide that will certainly go against the conservative grain. Katy says KEEP your kids in public school, start having uncomfy convos about the world as early as possible, and go HANDS OFF in the teen years. And after listening to her argument...she might be right?!Follow Katy on Instagram: ht...

In our first interview last year, Katie Faust and I discussed a problematic and ethical dilemma that has a stranglehold on contemporary parenting. This idea that children are a right. When you believe that adults have a right to become a parent, the means that you take to get there start to not matter. And oftentimes purposely put kids in a disadvantage. Our discussion on IVF, gay adoption, surrogacy, and other fertility industry topics is one of the most downloaded episodes of The Spillover

ever. The best part about Katie and what I think people find so compelling about her is that when she speaks, her voice never shakes. Even when she is saying something that is so controversial, it has the power to incite internet wars among moms. Well, Katie is back this fall with a new book, raising conservative kids in a woke city. It's a common sense guide for parents whose best or only choice is to send their children out into hostile schools and a hostile community every single day. Here's what's juicy. She thinks conservative parents shouldn't be too quick

to pull their kids out of public schools and that they still will remain conservative if you parent the right way. Now, that's a big if, but this new book is a lifeline to parents under siege by progressivism to teach them how to do that. It's for the parents who want to equip their children

with the tools that they need to go into a raging ideological war and win, even in, yes, public schools. Please welcome Katie Faust back to the spillover. Our episode just crushed the first time around that you were here, Katie, crushed. One of the episodes that is constantly called back to of people DMing me being like, hey, remember that surrogacy lady? Remember the IVF lady? Can you send me that link again? I want to send it to a friend. It's just one of my biggest episodes. And so, We're having you back. Welcome back. But this is for something a little bit different for you. Yeah. So I'm glad that that's gone so well. And I really commend you for bringing that content to your audience because there's not a lot of people talking to them about reproductive technologies.

I think that they grew up in this world where like techno babies were kind of in the news all the time. And so good for you, you know, for bringing them the other side of the perspective on that. So yeah, in a nutshell, I'm really passionate about two things. Like when it comes to the cultural, legal and technological changes happening in the world, I'm very passionate about don't touch the kids. Leave the kids alone. Whatever's going on in your personal life or whatever decisions or struggles or longings or losses that you're experiencing, don't touch the kids. Like, protect the kids. But I'm also very passionate about what is going on in culture in terms of all the woke ideology, things that are happening in the school, what's coming down through social media. And I'm very

passionate about don't touch my kids. Keep your hands off my kids. And in this world, where, you know, information access is everywhere, and especially when a lot of these damaging ideologies are coming through their teachers and through the curriculum, you really have to be on the offensive to make sure that the woke culture does not touch your kids. So that is the topic of my second book. And my co-author and I have raised collectively between the two of us and our fantastic husbands for kids in Seattle, largely going to public school. And you don't mess with my kids. This is about to be so spicy because, yeah, exactly what you're going. you just said, you are a conservative, you are a Christian, you're a pastor's wife, and yet you have

chosen to allow your kids to go to public school, which we're going to get into. Now, your book says, our children will be governed? The question is, will they be self-governed adults because they've been raised to hold morally informed convictions, or will they be governed by a tyrannical nanny state? You believe that parents have a very big and important decision to make? there is nobody else who is going to be able to raise kids that can govern themselves, right? You cannot outsource that to the state. The schools are incapable of doing it for you. It is the job of the parents. And it's not just, parents look at that and they go, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? Not only can you not do it, you are the only person that can do it.

You are perfectly positioned to do it. Why? Because you are, as we talked about in our first episode, the most connected to, invested in and protective of your kids. You have an investment in the future of your children that, you know, the governor who doesn't even know their name or the pediatrician that only sees them once a year or even the teacher that they're going to have for one grade, they don't have that same kind of investment and interest in them. Number two, you know your kids. Like, I've got four kids. They are different kids. They've needed things at different times in different ways. They needed things introduced in different timing, depending on what they were going on in their lives. Personality-wise, they've had different sensitivities.

And so the incredible thing about every kid having parents is you customize this training program. But the end goal is the same. The goal is you've got to raise kids who are governing themselves. And I would say kids that are steeped and understand cultural, economic, biological, historical, truth because they are growing up in a world of lies. And you, the parent, actually have the power and the ability to inculcate them against those lies if you train them well. Well, and that's what's so beautiful about this book and what I really enjoyed as, you know, a weirdo who likes to read parenting books a lot without kids. So you, I mean, the title is how to.

It is a how to guide and you do such a great job of breaking down everything that you need to do as a parent to make sure your kids remain conservative amidst the backlash and the bombardment that we're getting from, you know, leftism in this country. And so what I really like is that the book starts by establishing what conservatism is in the first place. So the way we defined conservative 10 years ago is different than I think we would define conservatism today. So what is the simple standard today? And it was a very simple standard. It was like one sentence that you had that determines if someone is actually conservative. Yeah. It's like, are you going to conserve something?

That's really what this is about is we are going to teach our children truth. but it's not new truth that we've invented. It's not some new fangled thing that it's just like appeared in the last 10 years. It is actually teaching kids to conserve the best ideas from history, from biology, you know, from the couple decades that we've had of experimenting with different economic ideas.

Like we are teaching kids to conserve the best ideas. And we had several people say, don't call your book raising conservative kids. It's going to trigger. It's going to put off half the population right away. call your book raising healthy kids or raising sane kids or raising Christian kids. Do they want you to keep the woke city part? Yeah, they didn't mind the woke city because I think everybody at this point is like, yeah,

something psycho is happening out there. Okay. So everybody can agree that the left has gone crazy. But there's a lot of people that aren't comfortable labeling themselves as conservative quite yet. But the problem is that we're not just teaching our kids to be anti-woke. We're not just teaching them to be anti-left. We are teaching them to be for the best. the best principles that are time and tested and true based on the reality of human nature

that doesn't change, which influences economics and the reality of what kind of economy and exchange works best for free people. What about the principles that has led to a nation that has been free and prosperous and greater opportunities for every kind of people from every place in the world? I mean, like, we need to be for conserving these ideas. So it's a book about teaching your kids what they are for, right? And what you're for is, conservation of the best historical, economic, and biological truths. And she breaks down, you guys. She breaks down literally by age what you do for an elementary schooler, what you do for a middle schooler, what you do for a high schooler. It's absolutely

phenomenal. And I thought that this was really juicy in the book. So from the get-go, you talk about how so many people think that religion is biased and that secularism is neutral. But you believe that it's backwards. You think that religion is actually neutral and secularism is biased. Well, the reality is they both have a bias. They both have a lens, right? But it's the religious worldview that I would say is punctuated by these conservative realities that we're teaching our kids to conserve. That is actually the worldview that aligns best with the natural world, right? And it is the woke world. It is the progressives. It is the leftist ideology that actually functions as a pseudo-religion because it's disconnected from the real world. And so, you know, you see now that like they function as a

religion. They've got their priests, right? They've got the people that come down from on high. And if you take their, you know, DEI, you know, workshop and pay them $20,000, you've been absolved of your corporate sins. You know, we've got the liturgical calendar with an entire month devoted to pride. And I just literally saw that, like, September is now like trans history visibility month or something like that. Like, they've got all of these memorials built in to the annual calendar to keep you in touch with the progressive religion. And of course, they have sacrificed. Jesus. You know what? That is so interesting that you bring it up. It is like keeping you involved, keeping you in touch. It's just like church once a week. We go to church once a week to

stay plugged in. And they're like, we got to start making more holidays, more theme parades and more months dedicated and devoted to this religion so that people don't leave the faith. And they excommunicate. Yes. Right. You know, cancel culture is modern day excommunication. And, you know, excommunication in scripture, if you're talking from a biblical perspective, one of the reasons why you put a brother out of fellowship is literally to say, please turn back, please come back to us, right? You're outside the fold. You're denied this community that you deserve. Please come back because we all need community. And that is why cancel culture has been so powerful and so effective because it has weaponized this need that we have for connection and relationship. And the woke wields that

better than anyone else. You have committed a grave sin. Many. You have committed a grave sin as a conservative parent. You say you are sick of conservative say get your kids out of public schools. You are conservative. You are Christian. And you are purposefully, you have purposely kept your kids in woke, leftist public schools in the city of Seattle. Yeah. Some of it has been out of necessity. Right. Part of the time is like we were broke. I mean, we were a family of six living on a pastor's income in one of the most expensive cities. For a while, we were able to send some of our kids to private school early on. That school closed. We're like, we can do no other. We are putting our kids into public school. Part of it is choice in the sense that we focus a lot on early training when our kids are young. In elementary school, we major on self-governance where they are governing themselves. They are managing themselves. They are learning through consequences. that their behavior affects themselves. We are, as we talk about an entire chapter on what to do in the elementary school years, stuffing them full of truth and beauty, and allowing them to grow and slowly, you know,

what my husband will say is like, it's like a kite, you know, you start out and it's really, really tight. And then as they grow, you can slowly unwind, slowly to go farther and farther and farther. And so actually, when our kids get to middle school in high school, they've got a lot of experience making decisions for themselves already. And so in middle school, we take seriously, where they want to go to school and what they think. In high school, we straight up let them choose.

Choose what? Where do they go to school? What do you want? Do you want to be homeschooled? Because I can set you up with that. Do you want to figure out if maybe we can get you to a private school with kids. We now have college age kids so we can't really afford high school tuition. So that's kind of off the table.

But so far all three of our high school age kids have chosen to go to the public's high school. And we're like, okay, that's fine. You don't scare us. Your school does not scare us. Like you are not going to capture our kids. But what about the saying that you shouldn't send your kids to Caesar for their education if you don't want them to turn out Roman? There's a lot of conservative parents that are like, no, I am not going to throw my kids purposely to the wolves. Well, you need to be careful because what they are offering can destroy your kids if they are teaching, if they're the primary teacher, but they're not.

You are, that's actually one of the main tenets of a parental right is you direct the upbringing of your children. You direct the medical care of your children. You are the teacher. Now, if you're sending them to a public school, you're outsourcing some of the teaching to the teacher, to the public school. But I think that's what freaks people out because you're being molded by these adults

in the school system that are with your kids eight hours a day. I mean, I feel like that is the majority of time. As a kid, your child is spending with these other adults. I mean, doesn't that proximity to your children matter? Yes. yeah, it does, right? And what they are seeing at school can influence them. So, and part of this is just practical. 90% of people in this country are sending their kids to public school. Some of them is

because maybe they're clueless and unaware and they think it's no big deal and it's just like public school was when they were in the 80s and 90s or whatever. Some of them are, they do not have other options. I know, I know the people that have decided to reorient their entire life and homeschool their kids, good on them. I know those homeschool kids. They're great, great kids. And I know the people that cannot pull their kids out of public school because they are strapped, they're single parents, they are working. Maybe they're in a crazy custody battle where there is, that's not a battle they're going to be able to win. Maybe they simply can't afford it. I don't know what it is, but the reality is most parents today are finding their kids in public schools.

And our message is, if you are serious about your role as primary educator, if you inculcate these values in your kids in age-appropriate ways, in these, especially on the specific topics that we've outlined in the book that are specifically under assault. Now, if you can get to your kids first about those kinds of things, train them up, saturate them in truth, minimize the exposure to the damaging ideology, especially in elementary school. Your kids are going to be okay. Not only are they going to be okay, but they're going to have strong worldview muscles, so nobody pushes them around. Okay, so you outline exactly what these values are, and you think that the elementary school years, not high school, are the years.

that kids need to learn what they believe when it comes to America, faith, marriage, life, race, gender, and economics. I mean, isn't elementary school a little young for some of those topics? Okay, so the reason why we outline elementary school as the age to hammer these basics is actually in line with, hey, homeschoolers, with the trivium, right? So the trivium is the classical homeschool model that outlines the three phases of child learning that are aligned with basic brain development for kids. Okay, tell us about that, because I've never heard this.

Oh, girl. Okay, so it's grammar, logic, rhetoric, right? So these are the phases of child development. And it literally is like sort of a brain shift that takes place in kids. And so classical educators actually have lined up their curriculum in line with these three kind of categories of child learning. So the first one is the grammar stage. That pretty much just means learning the rules of all the subjects.

So if you go to a classical school, they're going to be singing the rules of mathematics, right? They're going to be reciting the different history of the United States. are going to be learning all of the basics of like biology, that kind of thing. It's not the things you need to critically think about. It's the rules for whatever discipline you are in that need to be memorized, right? And so it's not a time necessarily to critically think through different issues. It's the time to stuff kids full of truth and beauty. This is why if you're taking your kids to Awana, they come home and they're like,

I have memorized 18 verses tonight. Awana. Because, you know, they have this incredible capacity to consume, to absorb. Like this is the phase where your mother-in-law, I was like, they're little sponges. I just, this is incredible. They just memorize everything ready. Kids are wired to do that.

And so you have to maximize. You actually like have to take advantage of that natural early childhood wiring to absorb everything that they hear. And so your role as parent is as much as possible to minimize distortions, minimize lies. And you actually can do quite a bit of that, even if your kids are in public elementary school. You can minimize a lot of the influence. You can talk to teachers.

They do tend to. be, unless you have a super activist, aggressive teacher, a little more timid about bringing those kinds of overt distortions into the classroom. So you should manage that as much as possible in terms of what's happening in the exterior of your home, but on the interior of your home, you are hammering those basics. But I mean, things like America, economics, life. Okay, so one really big example that just stands out to me from my own childhood and how my parents chose to introduce me to things like politics and hard topics in the world. I was in third grade when 9-11 happened. Half of my class, their parents chose to completely ignore it. Yeah, some buildings fell down.

I don't know. Let's move on. Let's change the subject. With my parents, they straight up told me that day when they picked me up from school, some bad men flow planes full of people into the building. it's very, very sad. We're praying for those families. That's right. And I mean, we didn't focus on it, but the news was on. And, you know, I think I wasn't paying that close attention. But I had a grasp of what was going on. It was like, oh, that's very sad. And I understood why mommy was crying, watching the news. But then, yeah, I moved on. I mean, I felt like they did a good job of explaining it at my third grade level. So that's exactly right. Yeah. So let me just say, notice that what I said is you're keeping out distortions. You're keeping up distortions in the elementary

school years. I didn't say that you're keeping them from everything that is bad and sad and awful and tragic. We're saying expose them to the true and the beautiful. And the truth is there are terrible things that happen in the world. And like sort of a mother bird, you take those hard things, you digest it and then you give it to your kid in a way that they can understand. But the sad, the tragic, the terrible will encroach on their life at some point and they need you to explain it to them. So part of a strong worldview education is not saying, oh, we're never going to talk about slavery or the Holocaust, you're telling them the true things about the hard world, but you as the parent are doing it in a way that is not going to violate their innocence.

So what about marriage? You say that you need to discuss marriage in elementary school. What does that mean talking about marriages between a man and a woman and stuff? Yeah, so you're building the building blocks, like from the minute that they can talk. You're identifying male, female differences. Like, isn't it incredible that your daddy can throw you in the pool? Mommy's got these little chicken arms. She's like, she can't throw you anywhere, you know? But isn't it incredible that like, you know, when you start crying, like, there's something in mommy that just wants to go be with you right away.

And that's just because mommy's brains are a little bit different than daddy's brains. And we're a little more wired to want to, you know, comfort kids. But dad, notice how he's like always turning everything that we have into a game so that you're running and chasing and climbing and competing. And moms and dads and dads are really different. It's so great. And isn't it great that kids have one of each? But that it's literally impossible for kids to be made without a mommy and a daddy. That's so crazy.

And you know what's amazing is that if a kid has both, then they just, they're so happy in their life and they get, you know, the, you know, however you want to say this. I explained it in the book, you know, I talked to my sixth grade about it. I used big grown-up language and she just translated into sixth grade language. But like you're laying the basics. You're just like narrating their world, pointing out what is true. And then saying, and marriage is what lets kids have mommies and daddies. It's incredible, right? And you hammer the truth. Men and women are different. Marriage makes babies or, you know, sex makes babies. Marriage is the way that those babies gets their mom and dad. And then by the time you get to middle school, which, you know, that's the time when you as the parent introduced the distortions. Okay. So speaking of middle school, was it middle school that your daughter had the epic smackdown with your family doctor? Oh, no, that was. Was she high school? Yeah, that was just, that was high school. That was two years ago. Okay. Well, tell us about this because now I brought it up. So now everyone's well, tell us. I have classified Intel. Found out what exactly. the 10 powerhouse ingredients are in the NeNe's skincare hydrating cream that make this

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Use code Alex Clark for 10% off. So your daughter had this really interesting debate. She had a, what, a physical for sports or something? And so tell us about what happened in the exam room with her. Okay, so I am in the nudiest state. I mean, our state is off the rails with their, I mean, every law is upside down and backwards. But one of the rules in our state, one of the laws is,

once your kid is 13, they control a lot of their medical decisions, their medical records. There's some things that, like, I'm not allowed to see as her mom. And one of the parts of that is during the exam, I am required to step out of the exam room. So the doctor can talk to the kid themselves. Okay. And personally, there's no one doctor that I have. Like, I just kind of shop. I'm like, you're my consultant.

I don't need, like, a family physician. So we were going to go see some doctor we'd never seen before. And this doctor is going to have a conversation with my daughter about whatever they talk about when I'm gone. And so I said to her on the way there, the doctor's going to ask me to step out. But it's your decision. You decide. And if you are okay with me leaving, that's fine. And she's like, I'm okay. No problem, mom. I'm like, okay, no problem. So, you know, we get to the doctor's appointment and we go through all the medical history, the height, weight, blah, blah, and he's like, okay, mom, I'm going to have to ask you to step out now. And I'm like, that's my daughter's decision.

Miriam, what do you want? And she's like, I'm okay. I'm like, okay, thanks. Go out in the like twiddle my thumbs like a minute later he's like you can come in now and I'm like okay thanks was there a visible demeanor change in him when he asked you to come back in the room I think he's like I we're done here yeah so then on the ride home I'm like so what happened and she goes well he shut the door he like rolled his little chair over to me and he's like so how many sexual partners have you had and let's let me think how old is she at this point she's 15 she's like none 15 how many sexual partners is she's like none and he goes hmm Kind of like the, well, we'll see.

He's like, do you use drugs or alcohol? Like, you know, I'm safe. You can tell me now that your mom's gone. We can have an honest conversation. She's like, no, no, I don't. And she goes, can I ask you some questions now? And he's like, oh, of course, right? Like, now she's going to come out to me or whatever he's thinking, right?

And she said, if I was having sex or using drugs, would you tell me to stop? And he goes, well, only if it was a problem. And she's like, isn't it always risky for kids to be having sex and using drugs? And he's like, well, sometimes there's things we can give them to help. And she's like, don't you think that it's the parents who should be helping the kid? And she's like, I literally just met you. My parents have known me forever. Don't you think they're the ones that should be offering me help if I need help?

And that's when he rolled the chair over and he's like, I think we're done. Mom, come on in. Right? So, like, that doesn't happen by accident, right? What you saw in that conversation was an understanding of the parent-child relationship, right, that this is a distinct relationship, understanding, like, the ideas about sex and the realities of the world, there's a lot of distortions, right, that he would have been able to introduce to her, the idea that, like, she knows who she is, she can stand alone, she can stand alone

even when her mom is not in the room with her. None of that happens by accident. But honestly, every person listening to this, if you have a kid, They are going to have aggressive adults encounter them. They are going to have peer pressure from friends. They are going to have online pressure, right, to conform or whatever. They are going to be pressured to get the grade in school because these woke teachers stack the deck in certain ways so that the only conclusion you can come to is a woke conclusion and you'll violate your conscience if you do any other, right?

I'm like we are all, your kids are going to face this in some way, even if they're not in public schools. What are you going to do to equip them so they can stand? Well, and so that's the question is that your daughter obviously is naturally good at debate and confrontation and she seems fearless to me. But what about the kids who aren't strong in that regard? So she is fearless. But she also is like me. I don't like to, I don't like confrontation. So she will hold off as long as possible. Sometimes you don't see her coming. I am shocked that you're not confrontational. No, like it is. I am not confrontational. But I will like literally hide. No, it's like the only time I get confrontational is when you come for the kids. You know, Like if you're coming for the kids, my, I go from, oh my gosh, let's hang out.

I want to do it. I will cut you. That's the line that I, that gets me, like, riled up. But so, all that to say, going back to grammar, logic, rhetoric, right? The grammar phase is when you saturate them in truth and beauty. The rhetoric phase, I'm sorry, the logic phase is then what classical educators will do is they'll say, okay, now you've got all this information in elementary school. Now we're going to logically teach you how to work that through.

And that is when you say, okay, why does this matter? What does this mean? And this is middle school. Middle school, right? And so that in our mind, if you're inculcating your worldview and your kids, truth and beauty all through elementary school. And truth means difficult concepts when it enters their life, enters their world. And then now in middle school, you introduce the 1619 project, right?

You introduce, and they should already know that you know about transgenderism and abortion, but that's when you say, now you are going to become an expert on abortion. now we are going to study chemical and surgical abortions. Now we are going to talk about, you know that people should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Now we're going to look at some of the ideologies that say actually skin color is the most important thing about you.

You know, so it's middle school where you say, I'm going to tell you what the world is going to lie to you about. I'm going to do it in a way that equips you, makes you an expert, does not violate your innocence, but we are going to go there. There are parents who are conservative, of themselves, but that idea of like, crap, I need to instill in my daughter how to, how to debate about chemical abortion? Like, I don't know anything. Like, I can't do that. How would

I teach them how to do that? I mean, what do you say to those parents who are like, but I don't even feel like I know enough to be able to teach them? Yeah, chapter one is called become an expert. You, or be an expert. You have to be an expert. So do you want your kids to be able to sort out fact from fiction, stand against the mob, articulate what they believe, not bow to the mob, don't expect them to become something that you are not. And that's hard. I'm not an expert on everything either. Like when it comes to like monetary policy and FBI raids, I'm like, I don't know, kids,

let me like, let's figure that out together because I just, I don't know. Like I've heard of modern monetary theory. I know that I don't like the fabrication of money out of nowhere, but I'm not really sure like what the implications are on inflation. So let's figure that out together. But you do need to have a basic functioning understanding, especially in the elementary school year so you can instill those values in your kids. There is a quote in the book that I love.

It's called, it goes, You become what you behold. And you can teach what you know, but you will replicate what you are. Who do you want your kids to be in terms of worldview? I mean, even just look at it from a Christian perspective. Do you want your kids to be zealous for Christ? Do you want them to know the word?

Do you want them to have intimacy in their prayer life? They have to behold you being that person before they can become that person. So if you want to teach your kids to conserve the fundamental, and give them a conservative world view, you must become an expert on the fundamentals of the conservative worldview. And the good news is you do have 18 years, right?

And a lot of what happens in that elementary school phase is they can just watch you become an expert. They can listen to the podcast. You have recommendations of, hey, parent, you want to learn about economics from a conservative perspective. This is the book we recommend. So you give, this is what I mean, that this book is a how-to.

She gives you step by step on all of this, which I really love. You and your husband made a decision that when you had children, your parenting strategy would be to exercise maximum boundaries, consequences, and discipline for your kids when they were young, and then you were going to gradually lean out like what we're talking about so that by the time they were in high school, your kids would largely be self-managing.

What has been the most difficult challenge to overcome in the lean-out process for you guys? Okay, probably just that every single time, you lean out there's additional risk, right? And that, it's hard. It's hard to expose your kids to more risk. They want to go to the mall alone for the first time when they're a seventh grader. It's our instinct. We want our kids to be safe. Right. But is that the way we should be parenting all the time is I have to keep my kids safe? I have to keep my kids safe. So we spend a lot of time in chapter two talking about how the goal of parenting is not safety. The goal of parenting is training.

You are here to train your children. And that is hard, especially for moms who want to like just insulate and protect all the time. Like you do have to balance out your protective instincts. And that's why it's honestly awesome to have dads who are like, no, go, push it harder, stronger. They can do it on their own. Let them go. Take off the training wheels. Like that's a pretty fantastic and I would say, you know, by design balance in the mother-father relationship. But we do, and there is a lot of risk in the world, physical risk, definitely in terms of like the ideology that's out there. It is risky to lean out and let your kids run more and more of their life. The encouraging, I would have is let your kids make the mistake when they're little. Because if they're making the

mistake the first time they get their driver's license, that is a higher, much higher consequences. They will make mistakes. Give them lots of structure and lots of training in the early years, lots of allowing themselves to taste the natural consequences of their decision. If you rescue them out of those consequences when they're five, you don't want to rescue them out of the consequences when they're 15. The consequences are going to be monumental. Yeah. So that's the thing is like leaning out is hard, but what are the alternatives? The alternatives is they, you know, there's an illustration of like, you can grow a tree in a biodome, like with totally controlled factors and everything.

It can grow up and it can look really, really beautiful. Take off the biodome. The minute it's exposed to wind tips over because the wind actually forces the roots to push down, reach out, and make them able to weather the storms. And so if you think about, like, what the woke world is bringing to your children is constant like gales, you know, of wind. Well, yeah, you talk about, I mean, speaking of gales of wind, you say like those training years are so important and teaching your kids on these hard subjects and how to debate and all

those different types of things because otherwise you say your kid is going to go to college and read the Da Vinci Code for the first time and their worldview is going to completely come undone. Right. And that was one thing. You know, we did youth ministry for a long time. before we had kids while we had young kids, I'm still running the youth ministry at church. And like we really observed two different parenting styles that we are going to protect our kids from everything.

They're not going to be exposed to anything, nothing that could hurt them or confuse them or anything. And then those kids would go to college and they'd be like, I can't stand on my own. I don't know what to do. I can't sort out. I've never been challenged. I don't know what evolution is.

You know, all of that. And then you have the parents that were like, self-direct. We're going to let our kids do whatever they want. There's no consequences. Like if they want to watch this, they can watch this. they can and then those kids like had no ability to govern themselves and they had no way to sort

out like what was true and what was false. And so we decided, okay, when we become parents, we're going to let our kids be exposed to everything that the world's going to throw at them while they're in our home and we can shepherd them. Well, let me tell you, she's not joking around when she says, my kids are going to be exposed to everything because some of the stuff you wrote in this book, I mean, I gasped like element, not necessarily that you're just things you've even heard, not necessarily even happening to your own kids, but like kids being like, kids being like, like, oh, you know, my sixth grade friends are in a thruple, mom. What is that? You know, that stuff is crazy. So then I have, I feel like I need to play devil's advocate on behalf of my

audience that is in the homeschool camp and get your kids out of public school camp because I know they're thinking, Alex, you have to ask Katie, look, are there safer environments for a child to engage in the culture, to learn risk, be exposed to risk beyond a public school classroom? because in in Proverbs 710, for example, you know, the father shows his son what a harlot does. And so he is engaging in the culture with his child. But he's showing his child what the world believes. And then he is the one doing it as the parent guiding the child. Like the dad is there with him.

He didn't send the kid out on the streets and be like, go watch what harlots do. Like the dad was there. He was with him. He didn't rely on the child to engage with the culture on his own. Right. Agree. when it comes to media, you know, when our kids first started watching some racier shows or some of the superhero shows that are out there are kind of interesting and also very racy.

And so we would lean out and we're like, you are in charge of your entertainment choices and we will watch this with you and we will pause and we will discuss. And we'll say, okay, why do you think they put that scene in there? Do you think it's interesting that she did not suffer the increased depression that is so common when girls can, you know, participate in hookups? Why do you think they didn't show that? I mean, like, so like they're in it, but you're in it with them. In terms of like, are there better environments?

Yeah, there could be. And if you have the ability to homeschool and if you have the ability to send kids to private school, then you can. But you make a strong argument also. But also if you are homeschooling, you better make sure your kids aren't only totally in a bubble so that they can learn how to navigate these difficult situations. So that's true. But also, I have lots of friends whose kids are homeschooled and go to private school. And their kids are also saying, oh, you know, I'm pansexual. Yeah.

So don't, I mean, I think that most of us understand that. this culture is coming for our kids, even if we think that we are ensconcing them in a sanitized world. We're not. Like, it is coming for everybody's kids at some point, red state, blue state, homeschool, private school, public school. And so you know your kids and you are responsible for their upbringing, no matter where you're sending them to school. As a conservative parent, what sort of relationship should you cultivate with your child's public school teacher? Okay, so I love, Stacey, my co-author, talks about this. She, like, puts the teacher on notice every year.

Like she sends them a friendly email, in essence saying, hi, you're going to have my kid. I'm really excited about this. You know, joke around. Ha, ha, ha. You work for me. And now how does she phrase that? Did she put a sample in there?

I think she just said, FYI, you know, their father and I take education very, very seriously. We're going to be highly engaged this year. We consider ourselves the primary educators of our kids, and we're so grateful that you're going to help them with geometry this year. So what she's really doing is she's laying the boundaries. You are my child's geography teacher. You are not my child's sex and health teacher.

Right. And also, we are involved and we will be checking in as needed. And we consider ourselves to be the primary teachers of our child. We are outsourcing this to you. I think it was you that said one of your kids in high school had a world history class. But they were like playing footage of race riots and talking about race America. And so it wasn't it your child that raised their hand was like, um, what does this have to do with world history? So what you're talking about is there are teachers that like, yeah, they are,

they are supposed to be the English teacher or whatever, but they're just going to start talking about, like, LGBTQ issues or race issues for no reason. Yes. And honestly, there's some of that in every class. So my kids know what it is, know how to spot it. One of the big things about high school, so the high school phase, you've got grammar, you've got logic. High school is rhetoric. Okay, there you've, They already know the truth and beauty. They've already been introduced to the distortions in middle school. In high school, we lean so far, we lean so far out, like so far away, that we're like, you just let us know what you need.

So the high school years, we function as consultants. So we're way beyond teaching them what's bad and good and right and wrong. They already know everything that the world is going to throw at them. The high school years, we stay connected to them because they are going to now need to sort out, okay, you know, we're learning about, you know, we're watching this documentary that has nothing to do with world history in my history class. Now I need to complete this assignment. I don't like it, but I want, I don't want to be, I don't want to unnecessarily ruffle feathers, but I also am not going to lie. So, mom, how do you think I should complete this assignment?

Right. So that's really your job as in high school is you stay connected so that you can consult with them. You still know more than they do about most of these subjects. You are the go-to person that they can be like, you would not believe what my ridiculous teacher did this year. There's actually a lot of, it's actually very important to be the soft place for your kids to be able to land when they're frustrated about something that's happening in their friend group or their school

or something that they're learning or something that disturbed them on social media. Right. So that is where you really need to put all your chips in high school is you stay connected because they're going to work this out. If you have properly laid the foundation, they're going to work it out, but they're going to need your help. Well, this is one of my favorite parts. And it was something that I learned new from reading your book is you talk about that. You say, hey, guess what? Not even just the woke stuff. Let's just say your child comes to you with like what you think is a stupid question that you think that they should have already learned in school. Like maybe some very like minor U.S. history question, whatever that you're like,

your response naturally as a parent is you want to be like, are you kidding me? Are you learning nothing? You know, that's what you naturally want to say. And you talk about how you have to stop yourself in those moments, even when they're not in trouble, just the way that you answer questions that your kids ask is very important because by doing that, you're telling your kid, oh, well, instead of just getting roasted by a mom for asking a stupid question, I'm just going to Google it next time. So even though it's a minor thing that they're seeking answers for. When it is a big thing, then they're really definitely not going to want to go to you because you might react heated or like, oh, are you kidding me?

How do you not know? Obviously you need to, you know, like wait until sex or wait to have sex for marriage or whatever it is, but they're just going to Google it or they're going to look on TikTok or they're going to go to their friends instead of you. And so you talk about how how you answer questions from your kids from the big to the small sets up that safe feeling for them to come to you for anything and everything. Yeah. And we call that the no flinch rule.

Okay, so there are so many things, like even before the world was woke and nuts, there were so many things that kids would bring to their parents and their parents would be like, oh, what's crazy? Or whatever it is. And now, like, it's just, you know, magnitudes greater because of the insanity of our culture. And so from the time they're little to even to the time where they're high schoolers, like, it still happens to me weekly. My kids will say things to me and I'm like, you are effing kidding.

Like, whatever it is. going, are you kidding me? But if you're going to raise kids, if you're going to inculcate your values in your children, one of the biggest priorities is they have to love talking to you. They have to love talking to you. And there's lots of barriers to them loving talking to you. One of them is that if you have such a disproportionate emotional response that they have to wade through before they get the answer that they need, you are literally erecting a barrier for them to come to you with concerns or questions in the future. And so what you need to do is minimize.

I mean, there already are so many things keeping them from talking to, for example, a woke world telling them that your parents are the enemies, right? I mean, like, that's the message that they are getting from so many sources is, don't talk to your parents, they won't understand, they're the enemies, they're the oppressors or whatever it is. And so there's already things keeping your kids from having an open conversation. You cannot add to that by then making them wade through this emotional eruption that you're having. okay. And even if you're not angry at the kid, even if you're like, oh my gosh, this is such a sick

culture. I'm so pissed. I'm going to write that principle right now. I mean, even that's still something that they have to be like, okay, I got to wait for mom to get done with this. You know, they might be coming to you with a question like your daughter says her female friend has a crush on her. And you go, are you kidding me? This is so nuts. Like, why has this happening to my kid? If she's only in fourth grade, I mean, she is coming to you because she doesn't know what she thinks about that. So I like that example. If your child who is a third grader says, mom, my friend that's a girl says she is a crush on me, how should you respond?

Well, your brain goes, are you effing kidding me? Right. Your face says, thank you so much for letting me know. Right. Your face. Tell me how that made you feel. What do you think about that? Yeah, you're confused because you know that that's not how it's supposed to be.

That our bodies are different. Boy and girl bodies are different and boys and girls' bodies are made to be together when they grow up and get married. And so it's not right if a girl has a crush on another girl, right, in a way that's kind of romantic. So that's why you feel so confused. I was today years old when I found out that a lot of products that say pasture raised at the grocery store are completely lying because that's not regulated at all. So if a brand says that their eggs or their chicken breasts are pasture raised, there's no official person who comes to their farm to see. see if that's actually true. 90% of what is in the grocery store is a lie. It's disturbing and it's

infuriating because you and I are trying to do what's healthier, right? We're trying to do what's best for animals. We're trying to do what's best for farmers in our country. Typically, these brands that you and I both absolutely know, who claim to be pasture raised, keep their chickens all crammed in a barn that has doors that open up. So technically they can say, oh, well, our chickens have access to the outdoors. But, I mean, you and I know that's not the same thing. Customers are being deceived up and down the grocery store aisles. Yes, even at places like Air One or Whole Foods.

True pasture raised is supposed to mean that the animal is actually raised on a pasture. This is the good ranchers way. There's a reason why these family-owned farms and brands are seeing a surge of online buyers for their meat. People want real food that they can trust and they're willing to go online to get it. Good Ranchers calls their chickens better than organic. They have grass under their feet. They've got blue skies up above their heads. They got the grass under their feet.

And they're eating grass, grains, worms, and GMO free seeds. Think of the song, Wide Open Spaces. Is that the tune of it? That isn't, is it? I don't remember. But look, Good Ranchers uses a trusted network of small conservative Middle America farmers who are on board with their strategy to fight back against big food. Subscribe to Good Ranchers today and get $25 off any box with Code Clark.

Go to Good Ranchers.com slash Clark with Code Clark for $25 off any box. Do you really know what you're eating and feeding your family? You can with Good Ranchers. Find the link in the show notes and use Code Clark. Good Ranchers. American Meat delivered. So then do you start boundaries of like, so we're not going to go have play dates or sleepovers with that child anymore or like what?

How far do you take it then? So we talk about how you do need to filter out distortions in elementary school. Now, you cannot filter out things that you don't like, right? There's going to be neighbors next door who are in same-sex relationships that you probably love and hopefully are reaching out to their kids. You know, you're going to have teachers that maybe are going to be talking to your, but as much as possible, you're going to filter out those kinds of distortions. you can't filter out realities, but you will cancel and should adults who are trying to evangelize

your children into a woke worldview. Like if you have a very aggressive relative, if there is a very aggressive teacher, and if you go to them and you say, look, my kids in fourth grade, I would appreciate if you don't talk to them about defending the police and Black Lives Matter and LGBT issues, that's something that their father and I have already talked with them about. were the people that are going to have those conversations. So, you know, could you, I would appreciate if you don't talk to my kids. If you've got aggressive adults that aren't respecting those boundaries, especially in elementary

school, cut them off. So then, but what do you mean, though? Because your kids have stayed through public school. They've obviously had crazy teachers. So then what? Do you ask the school, can I have a different teacher? We've never asked for a different teacher because either the teachers have respected or our kids have been able to see through the lie.

They've been old enough so that they're like, okay, they're lying to me. and it's not going to impact what I think. I don't think Stacey has ever had a teacher that has been so aggressive that did not respect her boundaries. Because a lot of times you can talk to the teacher and say, you know, if you're going to be doing this lesson, let me know. My kid does not need to hear that. We've already talked with them about puberty and reproduction. And so if you're not going to be covering that, I'll pull my kid for a week. And I think Stacey's done that a couple times with her kids, had them out for a week or two for a certain lesson.

So yeah, like, but it's, you can manage it, I think. And if the adults in your world are trying to evangelize your kids, not just living broken lives or lives you disagree with that you can truthfully talk to your kids about, but if they are really trying to disciple your kids into the distortion, those are rare situations. But yeah, that does mean sometimes you separate yourself from them. There's a really sensitive moment of the book where you talk about how the no flinch rule has to apply even in horrific circumstances. Like your child comes to you and discloses something absolutely horrific. And you tell the story, I'll let them, you know, read the details in the book, but you tell a story

about a close friend whose child disclosed sexual abuse to them and how even in that moment you have to apply the no flinch rule. It's hard, right? Because you hear something that horrific and inside your whole body screams. But what you're doing with the no flinch rule, especially in sensitive situations like that, is what you want is you want your child to associate talking with you about sensitive issues, even if it's self-incriminating in some ways. You want them to associate you with relief. I always feel relieved. I always feel better. Even if there's consequence, you know, even if I'm telling my mom that I cheated on a test. Yeah. So how do you make them feel safe and better while also still disciplining. Yeah, no flinch. That's a big part of it, right? Pull them in. Let them

unburden themselves on you. Ask questions. And then sometimes you say, well, it sounds like you didn't spend your money well in that situation. I'm sorry it's gone. You know, let me know if you need a few extra chores. If you want, you know, help, you know, building back your savings or whatever it is. Right. I mean, like, what about disclosing something like, you know, mom, I went to a party last night and I got drunk, like underage or something. Yeah. Well, there's consequences for that, right? But hopefully at that point, they have so, they've so associated talking with you with relief

that they are going to feel burdened when it comes to bad decisions they've made. I always feel better when I talk to mom. No guarantees, right? Like we've definitely had situations with our kids where they didn't come to us immediately with something that they needed to disclose. And ultimately they did. And there were some consequences. but a lot of times we say, well, you know, because X happened, that makes it hard for us to trust you.

What do you think building that trust backup looks like? What does that look like? And then they'll be like, well, probably taking my phone for a while and, you know, maybe coming home earlier at night or whatever it is. There's certain ways that conservative parents need to parent each kid. So you talk about how the way that you parented your oldest and taught them how to handle different, you know, woke ideology might be different than how you teach. your third kid about woke ideology. Explain that. So, you know, firstborns, they're just so

largely type A and they're like, just give me the information. I can do it. And so we were able to just kind of do like a matrix download with her. Like we're going to give all this to you like in like socialism in like a 24 hours. And she could handle it all. It was fine. Our youngest son, for example, is not just our youngest kid, but he's also emotionally young. And so he has had, he's disturbed in some ways, as all kids should be. But like, for example, in youth group over the last couple weeks, we've been talking about pornography because I lead the youth group, and that's what we do. Right? I'm like, none of you guys are going to be caught unaware by any of the stuff going out of the world. So we've been studying, like, porn effects on the brain. And he had an emotional

response to that. And so I talked with him after him, like, why are you feeling that way? Like, why did you feel like you wanted to leave? And he's like, I just don't like it. I think it's terrible. And I'm like, this is the right response. You are right to feel like this is terrible and uncomfortable. And you actually already know a lot of the facts about this. Would you like to bring a book over the next couple weeks of youth group, would you like to just read in the hall? And he's like, yes. Right. So he is still emotionally not ready to at least have that conversation in a group setting, not that it was ever graphic or anything like that at youth group, but he just knows that it's awful. And he was not ready to have more of it at that point. How do you guide a child, though,

that they're always hesitant or reluctant maybe to hear disturbing information. It's like trying to pull teeth to get them to have these hard conversations. They're just like fingers in their ears all the time. Well, one of the big, you do need to know your kid, but the reality is that somebody is going to talk to them about this. And there's a principle in the book that we talk about called the Founders Principle. And that is whoever gets to the kid first, they automatically consider the expert. Okay. Whoever gets to the kid first, they automatically, so if the first time your kid knows what porn is, is when a fourth grader takes a phone and puts it in their face, the kids, your child's going to go, oh my, ah, that's so, uh, and three weeks later, if you've never told them what porn is and that

there's pictures on the internet of naked people or people having sex in videos or pictures, who do you think they're going to go to if they're like, what was that? They're not going to you. They're going to Google. They're going to the friend that showed them the porn video. They'll say, where did you find that? What was that? like I what was happening in that video okay so there is a principle even if you have kids that are

emotionally young maybe more squeamish you still need to introduce these concepts to them not in a way that is going to like overhaul or or upset their innocence but you do need to say things like there are some people in the world who thinks that that men can marry other men and some of the we know some of the people that believe those things and we love them but that's not what we believe because you know that our bodies are different and male bodies and female bodies go together and it's perfect but male bodies and male bodies don't go together and so marriage is about babies and our bodies have to do with making babies so i mean like that's all for an eight-year-old that's all you have to do you don't have to go into all of the details about a burghapel and anal

sacks or anything like that but you are introducing them to these concepts hey you know what there's some people who think that your race is the most important thing about you and that that's the thing that you should define yourself as. But that's not what we think, right? We think that you're an individual and there's all kinds of wonderful things that make up your identity and your race is part of it, but we don't judge people based on their race.

So you're getting to them first so that when your kid, here's the word transgender, they go, oh, my dad knows about that. Oh, yeah, my mom told me about that, right? Immediately they should say, my parents know something about that because you've talked to them first. Yeah.

I also love that you say you shouldn't be the only conservative adult in your kids' life. They need other conservative adults in their life and adults need other conservative adults in their life. You might think that you are the only Christian in Austin or the only Christian in Chicago or the only conservative, you know, in Boston, but you're not. The reality is there are a lot of other parents that probably have their heads underground, trying to figure it out too, and you need them. Like our kids have not had,

have they had any Christian friends at public school? I guess our son has a couple that are in a different grade and our second daughter has a couple. But largely they don't have a lot of Christian friends at school. They have Christian friends at church. And they have other adults that they've been able to behold. They can behold Mrs. Manning. They can behold Mr. Manning.

They can behold all these other conservatives and Christian adults in their life who love them and that they respect. So they know what they can become. So your conservative kids need other conservative adults that they're watching. You as the conservative parent need other conservative parents to lean on and to fortify because it's not hard for conservative. I mean, it's hard on conservative parents too. Like you are also in the world.

You are also having these conversations on social media. You are also trying to do the DEI dance at your workplace and figure out how do I employed and not lie about what I believe. Yeah. Right. So your kids need these conservatives in their world and you're going to find them at church. I'll just tell you, like if you think that you're alone, you're not, but you need to go to church. Even if you're not a Christian, you are going to find the people at the good Christian, not the

stupid, not the awful stupid Christian compromising church. Go to a good church, right, that teaches from the Bible. And even if you don't believe everything in the Bible, the reality is the Bible has established the foundations for the conservative worldview. That is the only foundation that you can hang these conservative people. principles on anywhere. And so even if you don't believe everything from the pulpit, if you look around, the other people in the congregation are going to be your people and they can fortify and support you and your kid if you are living in a hostile culture. I've never heard anybody put

it that way before. That is so important. Even if you're like, I don't even know that I'm a Christian. If you are conservative, you should have your kids going to church once a week at least. Oh, at least. Yeah. That's right. One of your daughters is college age now. now. How does she feel about growing up in a woke city looking back? So one of the best parts of the book, I literally have a hard time talking about it without laughing and crying is we let our kids write the last part of the book. We let each of our kids kind of give advice to parents that are bringing kids up in a woke city. And she said, and it's so interesting because I didn't tell them, none of them read the book ahead of time.

And I was like, dang, you guys really nailed these talking points. But, you know, it's hard. And she did say, you know, our oldest did say, it was hard. You've got to do such a good job of staying connected because it's very easy for your kids to live double lives. You know, live one way at school, live a different way at home. It does cost you. I mean, she was really honest. Like, it cost me friends.

It cost me. I was alone sometimes. And so you really have to be, you really have to understand what it is that your kids are experiencing. and what they're going through. Like, we don't want to be naive and say, oh, this is no big deal, no problem. Neither do we want to be afraid and say, this is impossible, right?

It is hard. I mean, I think it's hard for everybody in this world, regardless of where you live, what your zip code is, where you're sending your kids. It is hard to bring up kids in the world today. They will encounter these things whether or not they're in public school.

So I just, you know, her, she looks back and says, I'm glad, because she's at a, very solid Christian college. Really? Yes. And it's fantastic. But she's like,

some of these people literally don't know how to defend what they believe because they were never forced to articulate and really think through where they stand. Yeah.

So if a parent wants to know how to talk to their kids about America, faith, marriage, life, gender, economics, and more, you got to read this book. And I also, when I was reading it, I was like, oh, I love the idea of giving this book

is a baby shower gift. Oh, my gosh. So I thought this is for a conservative. I mean, don't give it to your leftist friend. Well, you probably don't have any leftist friends as a conservative anymore. Maybe liberal, but not leftist. Anyway, you should gift this book as a baby shower gift for your conservative friends. But look in the show notes.

We're going to link Katie's Instagram and a link to pre-order raising conservative, how to raise conservative kids in a woke city. And what day does that come out? It is the 26th, September 26th. So very soon. Okay. So it's going to be out very soon. out very soon. Pre-order it. Thank you so much for coming on the spillover, Katie. And also,

I want to say this. Obviously, if you have listened to my episode with Katie before, it was all about big fertility, which she's an expert on, and just ethical issues with the fertility industry. And so a lot of people, I think, they probably saw Katie Fowles and they're like, oh, I want to hear about some other topics. So if you subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube, I'm going to do an additional video with Katie, and we're going to get into some fertility stuff that we didn't cover in our first interview. So make sure you do that. Pre-order Katie's book. Thank you, Katie, for coming on this fill over. Thank you for having me. If you have not listened to my first interview with Katie from last year called an

uncomfortable convo about IVF, surrogacy, gay adoption, and divorce. Do so immediately. Katie is one of my all-time favorite guests and just people in general. She's just so neat as a person and I adore her personality. And we need more of you leaving five-star reviews. So this is a great episode to that. Next week is going to be one of those interviews that will radicalize you on a brand new topic, much like that first Katie Faust interview did. Something no one is discussing is what we'll be talking about next week. And I anticipate it's going to incite some rage in some people, but for the majority who choose to listen with an open mind, it's going to change lives. You're going to be super confused and weirded out at first. But just please promise.

me, you're going to trust me and you're going to listen to this one. It is crazy, but it's crazy important. And it has to do with a certain medical choice that we make for our kids without thinking twice. New episodes of The Spillover come out Thursdays at 9 p.m. Pacific, midnight Eastern on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Also, if you haven't noticed, maybe you haven't if you're only listening to this, but if you're watching, you already know. But every episode is beautifully shot. So I highly recommend subscribing to Real Alex Clark on YouTube to watch the episodes in the comfort of your own home with your own snacks and blankets. Also, on YouTube, you're going to find my weekly live show. It's called Pop Politics that airs every Wednesday at 7 p.m. Eastern. I go on there

live and I chit chat about pop culture news of the day, but it's all through a conservative perspective. It's a totally different side of my personality and the complete opposite of this show, but we love a girl who can do both. Anyways, subscribing to the audio podcast version of The Spillover is obviously great for On the Go. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love You Mean It. Bye.