Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - Raising Kids To Be A Threat To The System | Taylor Moran

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

She’s a real mom living in the woods and raising her kids! After moving into an abandoned Boy Scout camp, Taylor Moran is showing people how her family is pursuing a “natural education,” where her kids are friends with their parents and each other, and it’s A-okay with her.Thank you to our sponsors! 😊⁠⁠Geviti⁠⁠⁠⁠ | Skip the waitlist and get 20% off first month using code "ALEX"Garnuu | Use code “ALEX” for 15% OFF Paleovalley | Use code "ALEX" for 15% off your first orderMush More Co. | Use code "ALEX" for 20% OFF Our Guest:⭐️ Taylor MoranInstagram | @leafandlearnSpotify | Leaf and LearnApple | Leaf and LearnTikTok | @leafandlearn🎀Follow Alex🎀Instagram | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠New 'Culture Apothecary' Merch OUT NOW! Glass tumblers, weekly wellness planners, hats, crewnecks and more. Use code "Alex Clark" for 10% OFF at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tpusamerch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the Cuteservatives Facebook group to connect with likeminded friends who love America and all things health and wellness! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the CUTEservative Facebook Group!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.This show is made possible with generous donations from listeners who believe in our mission to heal a sick culture.You can support our show by leaving a tax deductible donation ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or by subscribing to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube for FREE! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠#cultureapothecary #alexclark #podcast  #health  #wellness

live in six acre woods in the middle of nowhere and your homeschooling. Where are your kids getting socialization? They have us. How does learning how to take down a tree house help your kid fare in the real world? There's so much math and building. So go talk to an architect and tell them that they're not using things in the real world. Look around. Like everything is built, right? Are we a threat to people? I think it's bettering the world. And I think that people should take a second look. If it makes you feel bad, then maybe there's something to that. Children naturally learn. They want to learn. They want to get better. They want to explore the world around them. So we want to give them space to do that and then let them kind of choose how they're learning.

Taylor Moran is a homeschool mom of three boys who went from city slick or liberal to crunchy conservative in 2021. She believes that kids need a strong foundation of health and nature in order to learn and thinks fear is holding a lot of parents back from being good parents. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. Every episode is made exclusively with donations from listeners like you who believe in our mission to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally, and spiritually. You can find the link to leave a tax-deductible donation in our show notes or leave a five-star review for free to help us climb the podcast charts and become more discoverable. Please welcome co-host of the Leaf and Learn podcast and creator of the Leaf and Learn Instagram, Taylor Moran, to Culture Apothecary. What if your kids never done that would shock people? They will never go to school.

They will never have to raise their hand to ask permission to go to the bathroom, raise their hand to answer a question. They are communicating with us constantly, right? They are able to not so much argue with us, but I guess they are, right? They're able to critical think in our household. It's not like we are the ultimate end all. Everything's a communication. If we have to take time out of our day to explain things to them, like why we do things a certain way, we think that's really, really important in like the base of education, right, to learn.

critical thinking rather than just everything is set and everything is the way it is. Because that's how you end up with what we had in 2020. Everyone just taking what the government said at face value. We don't want to raise adults like that. We want to raise kids that can't ask questions. So you disagree with the parenting philosophy of because I said so. Oh, absolutely. I was raised in a household like that. And it was so stifling, right? And then it doesn't teach you to ask questions. It doesn't teach you to think for yourself. You just have to trust everything that's going on around you. How old are your kids? They are almost seven, four, and two. Your family lives off the grid in the middle of the forest in an abandoned Boy Scout camp and you were this liberal city slicker mom who then

became this crunchy conservative homeschooler. Part true, part true. We're not off grid. When we first knew there we were, there was no electricity or plumbing hookups, but we quickly fixed that. So we're not off grid. We do use the internet. We do social media for a living. And the kids, we use technology as tools, right? So we do use technology for education sometimes, but it's very, very limited. But yeah, we moved from the city right after 2020. We started asking questions like a lot of people did. What were some of the questions that you were asking yourself? Why is this happening, right? It was so strange. And then also, are we equipped to take care of ourselves when the system is not going to take care of us? So we were in the city and there were so many

like supply issues and you couldn't get a lot of things at the grocery store. Tollabaper was gone. Meat was gone. We started really thinking like, okay, are we safe? And then we were in Dallas specifically. And something happened right after COVID. On the tail end of it, we got hit with the Dallas winter storm. Oh yeah, that huge ice storm, right? Yeah, it shut down everything for like a whole week. We didn't have like a fireplace. We didn't have a big truck with chains on the wheels. And then even if you could get somewhere, you couldn't get to a grocery store. They were all closed. So we started to think, like, can we take care of ourselves? Can we take care of our family on our own?

And the answer was no. Yeah, I had a rancher on A.J. Richards. And he talked about how during the pandemic, we realized that if the grocery stores, if every Walmart were to shut down for only three days in America, we would run out of food. That's how quick it would happen. Because nobody knows how to get food or source food except for a huge grocery store like Walmart or Kroger. And how dangerous that is to live that way. because if another crisis, if another pandemic, God forbid, happens, nobody knows what to do.

And then he talked about how the one rancher or farmer in your community that people do know of, they're going to try to kill them because everybody's going to want their food and their land. And so then it's just a free-for-all and just how quickly things can dissolve. I can totally see that. That's like an apocalyptic thing that could really happen. So who's the first person between you and your husband to say like, okay, we need to like radically change the way we're living? We had kind of decided years before that we wanted to move out to the country, but we were kind of like taking our time. Like we were just going to have like a five-year plan. We were going to save and here and that. But as soon as all that happened, I was pregnant with my second. And I was like, no, this is enough.

Like that mother intuition, you know, like you need to protect your baby. You need to do something different. And so I was like, no, let's fast track this because we need to go. So we hadn't saved up like for the perfect farmhouse or perfect situation. We had a little bit saved up. So we started. are looking on Zillow, like, what can we find that we could actually afford right now? And we found a six-acre property that was an abandoned, part of an abandoned Boy Scout camp for 110,000, which is really cheap for six acres. And we said, I said, let's go, let's go. It's okay. It's okay if it's not a house. It's okay if there's no plumbing or electricity. We'll figure it out. Well, was it like a little cabin. It was. So it was like what used to be the office building on the camp. And then it was, it was so rundown. Like the floors were, you couldn't use the floors. The walls were bad. Like, We had to just redo everything.

And then there's a chapel, like an old church, on the same property that we have to renovate still, too. How long did the renovation process take? It's like still ongoing. But it took a while because we just did things as we could. We didn't come with this giant sum of money, you know? It was like it was a sacrifice. We just like slept on mattresses on the floor for a while and just kind of chipped away. But like the first thing that we did was, you know, floors and walls and added, you know, plumbing.

And we have still, we have a really old shower. A lot of things that were just still there before. that we're going to eventually replace, but it's just like piece by piece. Once you were living there, were you already homeschooling before you moved out there, or that came later? We already knew we were going to homeschool. So we weren't always social media people. When we were living in the city, I was actually going to be a teacher.

So I got my student teaching certificate, and I was substitute teaching, and I was planning on starting to teach. I was pregnant with my first, and I got into the classroom and looked around, and I thought, this is not okay. Why wasn't it okay with you? stressful. You can just feel it in your body, like the anxiety in the room. It was, it caused me anxiety. Everything was so fast-paced. And there wasn't learning going on. And the children were miserable. I will never forget this conversation I had with one of the fifth-grade

girls. It was during lunch. Because if you're not doing good in a certain subject, they pull you from lunch, your only break, right? So that you can do extra of that. This girl was like top, she was the top reader, so gifted, like, easy to talk to, had the best handwriting. She could write like crazy. She was, she knew what she was good at, right? It was writing, reading, speaking. She wasn't good at math. She was getting pulled from lunch away from her friends to do extra math. And I remember sitting with her, like, having to go through this, because I couldn't control it. I was just like a student teacher. And having her do these extra drills. And she was just saying to herself, I'm stupid. Like, she really thought she was stupid. And that radicalized

me. I was, because I saw myself in her too. And I think the same thing. And I think the thing for you, right? You knew what you were good at from a very young age. Absolutely. It's built into us. I think that God has given us, like, talents and interests, and we know it from the start. And then what public school gets wrong is it like, no, no, no, no, no. You're not going to do extra of what you're good at. You don't get to practice those talents early. Calm down, you know, and it has you just like do the same thing as everyone else. It keeps you like under this bar. You can't excel past a certain level, and you have to make sure that you're, okay at everything at all these pre-prescribed things. And this was the Dallas public school?

It was Dallas area, yeah. So how are the public school kids in Dallas doing? Oh, probably bad like the rest of the country, right? What are the, what's the truth? I mean, do you know anything about the, the how public school students versus homeschool students are faring currently? Oh, for sure. Home school students test way better than public school students. Colleges want them way more. And it just like they're, because they're able to get more one-on-one attention. And not only that is they actually like learning. By the time, like, public school kids get to college, they don't want to learn. It's just they're not as inspired. They're not as motivated to really, like, excel in their field. They're just, they're all just, I don't know. It takes the spirit out of learning. The ability to hyper-focus on

something they're interested in, usually that's where you start to see, like, that's where they figure out their future career one day and stuff, because they're able to dedicate this solo amount of time to something that they really love and enjoy. I will say, say this, well, I've said it before, is that a lot of the people that are on my team behind the scenes of my podcast are homeschool kids. And that's, they were able to use their teenage years and stuff learning how to do videography, learning photography, how to edit. This was something they were interested in. They were able to sharpen those skills and then, you know, graduate sooner, focus on that and then get a career, you know, start their career

sooner doing this type of work, which I think is really interesting. Me too. I believe it. I think that kids really need that chance to do that from a young age. And I think it would honestly change the world if you think about it. If everyone really got to follow their passions, like how much better would everything be? You know what I mean? Just on a grand scale. Absolutely. And you said that you knew that you wanted to homeschool. What was your preconception of homeschool kids? I didn't know much about them, but I think I just followed the, you know, oh, they're weird or whatever. It's just like what everyone says. But I didn't really know any homeschooled kids. I was in public school. My parents were in the Army. they worked really long hours. So I was just kind of in public school and or after after school care.

And that was another thing that kind of really motivated me to want to homeschool is just having time with my kids. I feel like even as an adult, like I don't know my parents as much as I could. And it's people think that's mom shaming, but just like it's just the hours you spend with your kids. If you're if you're not spending as many hours with your kids as someone who is, you're just not going to have as deep a relationship. It's just a fact. Do you get accused of mom shaming on your account? Oh, of course. Why? No one wants to see someone do something different than what they're doing. It just doesn't feel safe, right? It's like, even if you're not saying you're doing this wrong, just talking about what you're doing in a positive light feels like a threat to people.

Are we a threat to people? The way that we want to raise our kids? I think it's bettering the world, and I think that people should take a second look. If it makes you feel bad, then maybe there's something to that. What is your homeschool philosophy? How would you describe the way that you teach your kids? Are you unschooling? Are you nature schooling? What is it that you do? We're so flexible and dynamic. And I think that's that is what we're doing. Right? We're being flexible. My oldest is almost seven and we're constantly kind of taking his temperature on, okay, are you bored? Do you feel fulfilled right now? And just like asking what he wants to learn and if he's doing okay. And you can also tell, right? It impacts their mood. Right. If they're not feeling fulfilled, you can tell. Like something's off, right?

So right now we have mostly outside play if we want to go through like kind of our daily schedule. Yes, please. From the moment your kids wake up, tell me every single granular detail. Sure. We wake up and we do a home-cooked breakfast. All meals are home-cooked like good, healthy food. Because I think that's like the foundation of everything. So what's the typical breakfast? Eggs with bell peppers and sometimes like some meat or like bacon or steak or something. But nothing microwaved. We don't have a microwave. Like none of that. It's like real food foundation. They eat fruit all day, just nonstop. Like, that's our biggest bill, I think, is fruit.

But they eat a really, really good breakfast. And then they're outside. That's it. Like, that's how we start the day. Big meal, go outside. Do you ever find yourself having to kick them out of the house, like, beg them, like, you're going outside, like, where they want to stay in? Or to the most part, for the most part, do your kids, like, just run for the door? They know the schedule.

But we have times where just, I think, like, any family sometimes is like, no, I want to sit in here. But then they'll quickly realize there's nothing to do in there. And there's way more to see outside. Do you have a TV? We do. Okay. And so how much screen time on like any given week do your kids get, you think? It depends. We go through seasons. Like if it's winter a little bit more, right? We'll have, we'd do like a family movie or something, but they're not watching like TV shows. The shorter the show, the more impact it has on their attention span, right? If they can sit for a longer movie, it's just like it's better for the brain. And I don't know how to describe that on a scientific level. I'm sure you'll have someone on here that can talk to that. But just like we see it. If you watch like some shorts, their brain's going to, they're going to like start going crazy a little bit. So we just kind of watch how things affect their body.

And we found that like longer form like a movie, even if they don't watch the whole thing, just something that's slower paced, that they can sit through that. And it doesn't really hurt them as much. Okay. So you eat the home-cooked meal. They go outside for play and then what? And they play for like two or three hours. And then we'll have like one class a day.

We use something called out-school. It's like these little Zoom classes, Hudson's learning how to use procreate. That's his interest right now. And it changes. It used to be chess. Like, so he would have like a 30-minute class with a chess tutor. But now he has a procreate tutor because he's really into animation. So just like something that's that I can't necessarily teach that we outsource that for like a 30-minute class. And then Tom does like a little pre-K circle time just for fun. And then we're back outside for most of the rest of the day. And we have like lunch, outside time. And when they're outside, sometimes it's just free play. And then a lot of times

we have projects. So we just kind of do things as a family. Right. Now across the street from us at the Boy Scout camp, there's someone else who owns the other side, but they're taking down a lot of like the cabins and old buildings. Nick is helping the boys take that apart because they're going to build a tree house with the old wood. So here's what naysayers would say to this lifestyle. They would say, how does learning how to take down a tree house help your kid fare in the real world? What would you say? There's so much math and building. So go talk to an architect and tell them that they're not using things in the real world.

building is is the real world look around like everything is built right um so when they're learning how to build and they're doing things hands on that's like the best way to learn math i like failed math i did not get it like all the way through and i think that it wasn't because i didn't understand math i just didn't understand the way they were trying to teach it i remember being in high school my teacher ended up letting me cheat because she just like threw her hands up in the air because i would ask why like they would be giving me this equation and i would be staring at it and she'd say okay you see this is why it's the answer. I'm like, but, but why? I just didn't get it. Like, why? The numbers in a row didn't mean anything to me. But maybe if we could actually like build something,

you could see the angles and like geometry wasn't just like something on a flat piece of paper. So what you're saying, what you're saying is every kid learns differently. Home school gives parents the freedom and the ability to spend the time and take a second to figure out what that different learning style is going to be for each kid and then teach accordingly. Do you feel like that's true with your own kids? Absolutely. Yep. They're learning all the basics, but it just looks different. Math through building, writing through, writing books. Like Hudson will go through something and he'll be like, I want to write a story about what happened today. And he'll write a story. But it's not me being like, okay, let's do a spelling bee, write this word. Like that, I've tried doing that.

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G-A-R-N-U.com with code Alex for 15% off. Clean periods, big impact. What are the basic foundations of your homeschool philosophy? Like, what are the most important pillars to your family when teaching your kids? Listen to them. I think that children should have a say in their own education. That is so, so important to me, mostly because I felt like I didn't have a say. But, again, I feel like God has, he created us for a reason,

Each of us has talents, has skills that are built in, and we can uncover those if we ask questions, if we give children the freedom to. And I think that children naturally learn. They want to learn. They want to get better. They want to explore the world around them. So we want to give them space to do that and then let them kind of choose how they're learning. You have a six acre property. Do you have to have eyes on your kids the entire time they're outside? No, no. We live so rural. It's like so safe. And it's like complete opposite of how it used to be. the city like you were like really on edge um but no it's so safe there so even if your kids are not with an eye shot in your own yard you don't mind they're in these dangerous woods and taking down

tree houses and stuff you just trust your kids you're not scared about them getting hurt with when you can't see so there's two things to that we know the woods so like we've we've been there for for long enough that we know we're not going to let them go down to the creek by themselves there's like some things you know especially like the two-year-old he stays in eyesight but like our almost seven-year-old hudson he can he can run around he can explore it and And no, we're not afraid for anything because he knows what to do. Like, he is capable. He knows how to climb trees.

And if there's anything, he knows how to handle himself because he's had that practice. Is fear preventing parents from being good parents? Definitely. And I don't, I think that's kind of by design. I think this goes back to how we were schooled. I think that when you are trained from a young age to listen to the authority figures and anything outside of what you're supposed to be doing is, is not good. Like that kind of teaches you to be afraid of branching out.

So many people are afraid of quitting their jobs and trying something new. People are afraid of downsizing their home. All these things that you might have to do to be able to homeschool. People are afraid to change their lives, do anything other than what they thought they were supposed to do this whole time, if that makes sense. We get comments a lot about our kids being barefoot. Like, oh, they're going to get tetanus. Oh, they're going to get infected. What about ticks?

And just like, just silly things. It's like, well, ticks are going to get you whether you're barefoot or not. So, you know, the tick thing is actually now that you bring that up and you're living in the woods, I actually get that question on. Also, it's very funny. I always get parenting questions and I'm not a parent. And when I say something that people don't like, then all of a sudden it's wielded against me of like, well, you're not a parent. You can't say your opinion on this. But then I'm also the person that they're always asking, what do you know about this baby food brand?

Or what do you know about, you know, tetanosh or being barefoot or ticks? So one thing that I think prevents a lot of parents from letting their kids just play outside in their yard is this fear of ticks. So how do you guys handle that? It's just if they get one, they get one? You know when it's happening. It's like people think that there are these invisible bugs that will appear on your body and you won't know they're there for a week. It's just like you feel it crawling on you just like you would an aunt. Flick it off. It's really not that big of a deal. You'll feel it happening and then you can just like take it off and flush it down. toilet. Done. What do you think would change if more parents let their kids play outside for multiple hours a day all weather? Kids would be smarter, first of all. We would just,

education would be so much better. Kids are supposed to move around. That's how blood and oxygen gets to their brain. If they're not moving around, they're not going to learn in like the time you're spending in your homeschool or in public school is just going to be like hitting a wall. Like, it's just not going to work like it should. Why is the food that you make for your family so important for your homeschool philosophy. You've been talking about nutrition and food with so many guests, and I'm so glad I loved the Just Ingredients episode. Oh my gosh. Thank you. It's not just for us that we have to remember that as parents that we have to really take it seriously for our kids. Because they're more fragile, you know, they're younger. And also like, you get to start their

foundation of health. Like we've grown up on frosted flakes and stuff that were terrible for us. Can you imagine like, and I don't think that it's too late for us. I think everyone should, you know, do really well with their health right now. But imagine if we had grown up on these grass-fed, raw milk diets, like how we would be super humans, you know what I mean, super versions of ourselves. And who doesn't want to be the best version of themselves? People taking their life for granted, taking their life just like, yeah, it's okay. People that, you know, talk about moderation and prioritize moderation over just like trying your best to like just really take your health seriously. I don't agree with that. I think we should take it very very.

very seriously, especially for our kids, because not only are you feeding them now, and this is going to be their foundation for health for the rest of their life, but you're also, like, you're teaching them what kind of habits to choose for themselves. I have something to say about 80-20. So when someone says they are, you know, 80-20 balance, I feel like if you think you're 80-20, you're probably a 60-40 at best. You're not actually going as hard as you should. And that's generous, I think. I see all these posts about moderation and, oh, if my kids it a birthday party and there's cake there with red 40. I'm just going to let them have it. It's a special occasion. No. You're saying no? Absolutely not. Why? More than just the impact of the food

itself. But what are we teaching our kids? If at the first time of like first sign of peer pressure, the first sign of resistance, we say, oh, it's okay. You're throwing your values out the window. And like that is teaching them that the second anything is like a little bit hard or there's, there's other people doing something that you should just do what everyone else is doing. Yeah. Abandon your core values, your core principles, your beliefs in order to fit in when really we should be doing the complete opposite. Standing your ground, knowing your body, knowing that you shouldn't have it, it's not even

about the cupcake. It's about your values and it's about teaching them to be a strong human being. My flight home from the inauguration this month kind of got delayed pretty seriously. I was stuck at the airport. And you know that moment where you're starting to calculate if you can survive the weight without eating something that you're instantly going to regret? Yeah, that's me. So I'm pacing around. I'm checking every snack kiosk like it's a dang survival challenge.

And then I remembered. I had my paleo valley beef sticks in my bag. Problem solved. Paleo Valley beef sticks are like a mini vacation for your taste buds. 100% grass-fed grass-finished beef, no grains, no antibiotics, just happy cows roaming around eating grass, probably doing cow yoga, living their best lives. everyone else is gnawing on some junk made with chemicals you can't even pronounce, I'm eating real food. Paleo Valley 100% grass-fed and finished beef sticks don't mess around. No herbicides,

no pesticides, just good, clean, fermented grass-fed beef. I mean, do you want to eat something that's been marinating in pesticides or something that's got gut-friendly probiotics in it? Yeah, I'm going to take the probiotics, thanks. Most of these other snack sticks that you see at the store, they're like, hey, let's toss in some GMO corn, put a little hydrogenated oil, call it. at a snack. Paleo Valley's over here like, nah, we're going to ferment at the old school ways you can feel good about it. Paleo Valley beef sticks are so good. They were even voted one of the top snacks of the year by Paleo Magazine. You know, the magazine for people who think gluten is the devil and kale is a blessing. So if you want to stop eating like a garbage person at the airport or

anywhere, head to paleo valley.com slash Alex and use code Alex for 15% off your order. That's paleo valley.com slash Alex for 15% off with code Alex. Stop eating like you're just surviving and eat like you're thriving, all right? Let me take you back to when I was 15. You know the vibe. Okay, I was lighting incense. I was cranking Jefferson Airplane White Rabbit on my stereo because we still had those and staring at a mushroom poster on my wall thinking, man, I would totally belong in the 60s. I had this whole like I'm a psychedelic guru persona. I was obsessed with shopping at like these vintage stores in Louisville where I grew up. You know, in reality, I was just trying to figure out how to keep my acne under control. Well, fast forward 15 years. I'm still obsessed with mushrooms,

but these days it's the medicinal kind, not the kind that you take on a spiritual journey. And I never did that, by the way. I just thought it was cool. You know how it goes. And let me tell you, I found a new obsession. It's mush morco, organic mushroom gummies. These little guys are nature's original superfood packed with adaptogens and immunomodulators. Basically, they help your body chill out when life's throwing curveballs. Move over Big Pharma. Mushmore co-gmies are the real deal. Only nine ingredients, no fake colors, no sulfates, no parabens, and definitely no weird synthetic stuff, just pure organic mushroom fruiting bodies because that's where all the good stuff is. And they're potent. Most companies have like 500 milligrams per gummy. These Mushmore Co-organic mushroom gummies pack a solid 1,000 milligrams,

and add in 250 IU of vitamin D per serving. So you are not wasting your money here, folks. Plus, they're grain-free, paleo-friendly, and this is my favorite, they're 100% plastic-free. Yeah, this company is not just saving your health, they're saving the planet too. So if you're ready to level up your health and support a company that actually cares, head to eatmushies.com and use code Alex for 20% off. That's eatmushies.com with code Alex for 20% off. What would the liberal Taylor think of this conservative, crunchy Taylor today?

Let's say Taylor five years ago. What would you think of yourself today? I don't even think I would think about it because I think I was so asleep that I would just repeat what I was being told. You know, I would be like, oh, you're a conservative. You're probably a racist. Just like the same old boring talking points that aren't really from a place of like critical thought. How plugged into politics and religion. stuff like that were you and your husband? So we met in college and we were studying philosophy

at a very liberal college in a very liberal town. And we kind of, just for our own individual reasons, we didn't have any like solid footing from our families. So we were kind of really fluid and just like kind of soaking in what people around us were teaching us. And it's very easy to do that at college. So I'm so glad that Charlie Kirk is doing what he's doing. Because college is a place where even the like families that try their best to teach their children, like good family, conservative of values. When they go to college, it tears it apart. And we may and Nick have been trying to figure out what is it exactly? Because it's not like, no one's making you sign in blood like you are now a liberal, but it just like is so subtle the culture that happens on these campuses. But we were

very liberal. I think like we were pro drag queen's story hour. We didn't go to one because we didn't have like kids. But we were like, yeah, this is good. We need to be kind to people and all their differences and we need to use people's pronouns correctly. All the things that are just wrong, now we see that it's wrong and like why it's wrong. But we were so tied into pretty much every liberal thought you can imagine. We were subscribed to it. And how would you've described your faith at that point? I didn't have any. And I did not have one. And I think that's exactly why. As soon as I found out that God was real, it just like was an overnight rearrangement of like, oh, it just changes the way you see the world. How did you find out God was real?

And I haven't shared this on any of my social media because I would sound crazy. But it was just, it was an overnight thing that, like, it is so hard to believe this if you didn't know me before. But like I had no beliefs about the world. I had no real vision. And I was just loosey goosey. I didn't really believe in anything. And I was a parent. So like as a young parent, I think I already had Hudson.

We were still planning on homeschooling, but it was not really anchored in any truth or God. But it was just one night in bed. I felt there was like a bright light around me and like this warm feeling and God just spoke into me all this truth. And then I remember it was kind of like a sense of humor thing. Like he was, I feel like the only reason he came to me is because I was so stupid. Like I was never going to like figure it out on my own. So you just kind of came to me and was like that I am real. This is this.

This is what your mission is. You focus on being a mom and loving your kids. What is your mission? That's it. Being a mom and loving my kids. But also I think past that talking about what, we should be doing with our families and how other families should be honoring their children because God made them a certain way and we need to be listening to them more. To say that there is a right way or

wrong way to raise kids, some people would say that's judging moms or mom shaming. What do you say to that? It is. And that's not a bad thing. Not necessarily. I think that we do need to be holding each other accountable when there is a right and wrong way. And people who think there's not a right and wrong way, they're not acknowledging that there is a truth. Right. And that's what I'm kind of getting at is once I realized real, there is one truth, right? There's one pinnacle of truth. And with that, knowing that, you can rearrange like the world to fit that. If there is a truth, then there are lots of other truths that kind of point to that. When you send your kids outside for so many hours, what the heck are they doing out there? They're gardening, they're playing, they're running,

jumping, climbing. They're just like enjoying each other. That's socialization, right? They have each other. They're playing. They're solving problems. They're doing make-believe. They're making forts. they're writing little signs and say no mom's allowed and they're just being creative. Do they ever come to you and say, Mom, I'm bored? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then what do you say? Okay. It starts out. There's seasons of it, right? But they start to realize that, okay, my boredom is not my mom's problem and she's not always going to solve it. Sometimes I give them ideas, right? And it's like, sometimes it's hard to not help our kids in some ways. So I'll give them like, oh, you could do this. And I'll only go like maybe like two or three things.

I'll give them three ideas and if they don't take them, sorry. Figure it out. Yeah. Do you think a lot of parents are afraid to have bored kids? Yes, definitely. It's kind of like a helicopter mom thing. And it's also just like you naturally want to help your kids. And sometimes we see boredom as like a problem.

But it's not a problem. If you see it as like an opportunity, then you realize, oh, my kids don't need my help. This is actually a really good opportunity for them to figure something out on their own. Do you ever let weather get in the way of your kids playing outside? It does to an extent. And I want to say that, no, we're out. and all excited sorts of weather. But in the wintertime, when there's like a lot of snow on the ground, you can only be outside for a certain period of time, but we will go outside. Like, there's

not a day where we're just going to not go outside. What about rain? Oh, we play out in the rain, too. That's great. If it rains, I feel like we've had a drought all summer. So if it rains, we're really excited. But yeah, we'll run out and play. What is the biggest misconception you hear about homeschool moms? I think the biggest misconception, probably across the board, people who don't understand homeschooling is that it's just like a dark room when a child is sitting at a desk, like the parents bought a desk somehow and that they're just like doing what they do in school. And it doesn't have to be like that at all. And it really shouldn't. Like if you are homeschooling, you should take that freedom and run with it and really customize it for your kids.

Are you worried that your kids are not going to learn as much if they're not in a regular school setting with a teacher? I love that question. Yeah, they're not going to learn as much. And that's a good thing. I think that define learning. So the school system has you memorizing so much stuff. And it's like filling your brain with things that really aren't that important. So yeah, they're going to learn less, but the things that they are going to learn, they're going to actually matter. They're going to actually like find uses for it. And those things are going to kind of jump them into whatever career path they choose.

I think a lot of homeschool moms would be afraid to say that. But you explaining it makes a lot of sense. I went on the Skinning Confidential and Lauren was asking me, you know, tell me exactly how you would homeschool your kids. Like tell me exactly what it would look like. And I really struggle with that question. And afterwards, I told someone on my team, I said, gosh, I bombed that part of the interview. I was like, because I do have ideas. But the truth is, is that I can't answer that question.

It's just, it's a hard question because every child is different. And I don't know. I can have ideas of like, I want to do this homeschool method. I want to use this. I want to do this. But until I have that child and know their personality, it could look drastically different. Me wanting to homeschool is not going to change. But the way that I choose to homeschool might be different than what I think now without kids, you know, what that's going to look like.

Do you feel like you've had to pivot the style in which you teach some of your kids? Yes. And I still am every day. So it's a relationship. It's not like, okay, this is what I decided whenever you were three years old, how we were going to homeschool. And this is how we're going to do it because I said so. It's a relationship.

And just like you're saying, you can't really picture what you're going to do yet because you haven't met your child yet. And when you do, you're going to meet them at three. You're going to meet them at four, at five, at six. Like the child ages, right? And they change and they have different interests and you start to see their personality blossom and you learn more about them as you go. And so it's constantly changing. Is there anything when it comes to homeschooling that you and your husband disagree on? Nick thinks that if they're like high school age and they ask to go to school, that we'll let them. And I think no.

And you say no. Yeah, what happens if your kids grow up and say, I hate this? I want to go to normal school. I want prom. I want a date. I want fast cars and freedom. I want Taco Bell. Sorry. I don't think so. I think that means we're doing something wrong. And I don't think it would get to that point. Like I just really don't think it'll get to that point. And just as I was saying, like, we're constantly having this communication and we're learning like what they need.

I don't think what they need is going to go backwards. Like by the time that they are 16, they're going to be so far beyond their peers because they're going to be like apprenticing. They're going to like already know what they want to do for a job. And they'll be actually probably working in that field already and like really focusing in on their skills. If they want to go to high school and go play at prom and sit in a desk and listen to like civil war date facts, like I feel like that we've done something wrong. You live in six acre woods in the middle of nowhere and your homeschooling.

Where are your kids getting socialization? With each other. And people always like count that out. Like where are they socializing? It's like, okay, if they went to school, they would be sitting in a desk with kids all around them of the same age and they would be told not to talk because you're not here. to socialize. They're getting more socialization at home. You know what? Nobody ever brings that up. You know how many times I was kicked out of class for talking? You're right. You're not supposed to be socializing except for a very small period of time. This is your designated social talk, you know,

during lunch or recess if you even get recess. And I don't even know that every kid or every school is really doing much recess anymore either. I don't know. Probably not. At home, we're socializing way more than they would at school. They have their siblings. They have us, right? And people think that, oh, socializing with your parents, that's a real thing. And that's really important. It's kind of how we were designed to have kids. We're designed to be with them all the time. And we're designed to parent them. We're constantly able to answer their questions. If they're just like off at school listening to what people are telling them, listening to facts and like writing stuff down, they're really kind of alone in their head. But if they're learning with us and they're like, we talk all day.

It's like almost like a constant dialogue. They have a thought, hey, hey, mom, what's the hottest place on earth right now? Like if they have any kind of, by the way, it's earth. Arizona. Yeah, it is, especially today. Yeah. They have like a thought about the world or or themselves or their bodies or God or just like any of these things that they're thinking about because they have actually time to think because we're not bombarding them with facts. They have time to think about real things. And then they ask us these questions and we just like talk all the time. So they're like they're getting a lot of socialization. Are you involved in any co-ops or anything with any other families? Like I mean, are they ever seeing other kids? Yes, definitely. We have like once a week on Fridays there's like a wild and free thing. We go meet. either like a hike or there's like a craft. And so like they alternate between that. Do you feel like as a homeschool parent, you have a lot of opportunities for activities for your kids? Or do you feel like your kids have like two options and there's just not much to do outside of your own property? Living in a rural area actually limits our options. So a lot of people, that's what we get like some flack online. It's like, well, not everyone has, you know, nature properties to homeschool on.

I'm like, actually right there in your city, you have a lot of really cool things. You have a museum. You have a library. You have like all these really cool things that you can go visit. Where we are, we have, we have sports, right? We do Thomas in soccer. Hudson does baseball. So we do like city sports. There is a library. But if we need to go to a museum or like a state park, we'll drive a couple hours to do that. You and your husband both stay home. You're both doing social media work. Is homeschooling more doable for you than parents where both work or a single parent? Who is the ideal family that can homeschool? Is it only certain types of people that can, pull this off. We are so, not privileged, not privileged, but like, lucky. I love it that we're both home because I think it's so special to have the influence of both, you know, both the father and the mother 24-7. I'm really excited for my kids to grow up this way because I didn't have anything like this, you know. So I love that situation. But no, that's not, that does not have to be the only situation. Stay-at-home moms can do it by themselves. Stay-at-home dads can do that by themselves. And I get a lot of messages from people whose parents, like, they both work, but maybe one works outside the

home, but they still make homeschooling work. There's also, I've learned this from, like, people like Heidi St. John, who I've had on the show, is that there are absolutely two parent households that are working outside the home and single parents. And that's the thing about homeschooling is that you're creating your own schedule. So do you feel like there are some days where you do zero type of formal schooling and it's just play? Or are you guys doing a little school every day? She was saying how, like, some people, if they're both working here, it's a single parent, maybe your school is. on the weekends and then you know the week is is something else but you find the time to do it and also

she talked about how there really only needs to be like two hours if of formal school a day um you know if that's a workbook or doing something like that so if you do it if you're a working parent and you come home and then you're doing school after dinner for like an hour and a half or two she's like that's it that's really all you need this idea that we need like six seven hours of formal sitting in a desk at school is the only way you're learning is just not sure you need. she said throughout the course of a day, even those long school days, they are only learning about an hour and a half, two hours worth of information. Would that be accurate to say? So accurate. And the age that our kids are, they're like maybe 30 minutes a day. But that's so accurate what she said. And there's a lot of schools. So people that are listening that maybe like don't think they can homeschool or don't want to for whatever reason. There are schools that are actually like taking that model and running with it. There's one out of Austin. There's like Acton Academy is one. They're popping up chains all over America. Apagee is one. But in the these schools, what they're doing is, yeah, two hours tops of, like, academics, like focused, like, core stuff, which is, like, just math and reading. And then the rest of the day, they're working

on their own personal projects. Your homeschooled seven-year-old, what does he know how to do that a public school seven-year-old probably doesn't? Start a fire and put out a fire. He can build things. He knows how to carve with a carving knife. He can use an axe. He can build things on his own. He can use a bow and arrow. He is learning how to, we're learning how to hunt just this fall. So a little bit of that. He can start a garden on his own. He knows how to harvest things. He knows how to identify a lot of plants. He can fish. He can go to the creek, catch crawfish, come up to the house, cook them, eat them all by himself. He knows that to cook them too? Yeah. No way. That's incredible. Are you letting your kids use knives in the kitchen? You're not scared about that? Of course I am. But you have to let them anyway.

So like the more you let your kids do risky things, the less risky it is because they know how to do it. So like that's really, I used to be like the most anxious mom and just like a base level of anxiety. But I realized the more you let them do the things that scare you, like the safer they are. Because sometimes they're just going to do it anyway. But if you like don't let them do anything, then you're always like on edge. Like, oh no. What if they climb that? If they climb it, then they know how to climb it and they're not going to fall next time.

So you have to let them do those things. What's your plan on teaching your kids how to read? Hudson knows how to read. So it's just reading is a bit. big part of our home. We have never had to be like phonics. Like this is the sound of this letter. We have never had to do that. We just like read to them all the time. This is actually like Nick's favorite part of homeschooling. So he loves it. So he reads to them like 20 books a day with Hudson. He'll read like chapter books and he'll have Hudson like, okay, read the first part.

But a lot of times they're looking over our shoulders. And the more you read to your kids, they just kind of pick it up naturally. They doesn't have to be like so specific all the phonics education and how long it takes to teach it in school. It doesn't. doesn't have to actually be like that. What would you say to encourage the mom who is apprehensive about letting her kids go outside? Because she just doesn't know what to do with them? When she sends them outside, they're like, well, what am I supposed to do out here? It depends. So if you want to just start being outside, like go for a hike, because there's kind of a mission. And that's how we started. And that's what we love to? Because sometimes it is like, okay, what are we going to? But sometimes it's a trailhead and you look at the map together and say, this is the plan. And a lot of times kids will complain about, you know, oh, where are we going? But if it's a loop, they're kind of, They have a mission. They know like, okay, we're going to finish this at some point, right? Out and backs are a little bit harder. So find like a loop hike and then have like a kind of secondary mission. Like how many different flowers can you find on this trail? How many different rocks can you find on this trail? And let them like explore things along the way. So there's like a macro mission and then like a little micro mission. I like creating a mission that gives them something to do a purpose for being out there instead of I think that's where parents struggle is just so I'm just supposed to open the door and just say go outside to kids that have really not. experience a lot of outside time. They're always on screens. That is probably intimidating. And they are like, well, what am I supposed to do out here? So it's those baby steps and doing that. What would you say to the parent who's on edge of, okay, my kids are currently in public school?

I just don't know if I can do it. I don't know that I know how to teach my own kids. I don't know that I could make homeschooling fun. What would you say? Tough love here. Because I guess I get that a lot. And I don't know how to answer those questions without, it's because it's a bigger conversation. But if you think you can't do something, you're right. You know what I mean? Like you have to just say, I can do this. And then you can. Either way, you're right. So if you are adding these limiting beliefs to yourself, then you're not going to do it. You're not going to go for it. But you have to realize that like you are in control of your own life. No one else. And if this is something you really believe in, then you'll make it happen and you can do it. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, mentally or spiritually, what would it be? Take your kids seriously. Feed them good food. Feed them like their athletes. Let them grow up healthy. Give them a great foundation for life. Listen to them. Give them their own voice. Let them think critically in front of you. And sometimes that's going to feel uncomfortable because we were all raised to tell our kids to not talk back.

But you want to let in respectfully. There's ways to do it respectfully. But you want your kids to push up against you. You want them to have their own thoughts and argue because the culture we're seeing today, the backlash in like the aftermath of 2020 was because people could not think critically, because people could not argue with authority. People could not think for themselves like, oh, this is, this is not right. And a lot of us did. But too many didn't. Too many just went with what they were told. Too many just rely on experts that are bought. You have to raise kids. If you want to heal a sick culture. We have to think of the culture in this next generation. It is our job as moms to raise kids who are not going to fall for that again. What are your favorite resources for learning

about homeschooling? Wild and Free is great. And that's like, that was kind of what got us started. I love the Wild and Free. Heidi St. John is great. I love watching her and following her on social media. If people follow you on on social media, what would they find? We're kind of branching out, but mostly we share reels on just, you know, keeping your kids bare foot. And just like, inspirational stuff about stuff we're doing our life and our progress as we renovate the Boy Scout camp. We recently started a podcast that's focusing on philosophy. We're eventually going to come out with a curriculum for teaching philosophy to kids because I think that is like a big gap in a lot of curriculums for parents that use curriculum. People want to know like how do we teach our kids to think critically.

So we're coming out with something like that soon. But just yeah, how to raise free range kids. has been the number one transformation that you've noticed in your family since homeschooling? Our health and our connection to the world and each other and just nature and our excitement to just be alive. What is your Instagram handle? Oh, you can find me on Instagram at Leaf and Learn. Leaf and Learn. And the podcast of the same name. Okay, perfect. You have a podcast? Yeah, we just started it. What days a week do you put out? Mondays. Okay, every Monday, Leaf and Learn podcast. Awesome. Thank you, Taylor, for coming on Culture Abotha Carey. Yeah, thank you.

I love what Taylor had to say about letting her kids use knives in the kitchen and playing outside, unsupervised, to build confidence and independence. She is very brave. Her account is beautiful. I highly recommend following it. Next episode is with one of your favorite podcasters discussing toxic empathy. Ooh, you already know who it is. New episodes every Monday and Thursday at 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern, anywhere you get your podcasts, or the real Alex Clark YouTube.

I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture Apothecary.