Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - Should You Be Posting Your Kids Online? | Author Leah Plunkett

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Are we posting our kids online in ways that could seriously hurt them later?Lead Plunkett, author of 'Sharenthood' and faculty at Harvard law school, talks about the hidden risks of posting your children online, what most parents don’t understand about privacy in the digital age, the dark side of the family influencer economy, and how AI is raising the stakes in ways most people haven’t even considered. We aren't in 2016 anymore- helping families navigate privacy, safety, and childhood in the digital era is more important than ever. Thank you to our sponsors!⁠GEVITI:⁠ Use code "ALEX" to get 20% off of your first purchase⁠CROWDHEALTH:⁠ Use code “CULTURE” to get your first three months for only $99/month ⁠PALEOVALLEY: ⁠Use code ALEX for 15% off your first order ⁠VOTE ONLINE⁠⁠ZEBRA:⁠ Use code "ALEX" for 10% off any orderOur Guest: Author Leah PlunkettLeah's Links:⁠Harvard Bio⁠ ⁠Website⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠Book 'Sharenthood'⁠FOLLOW ALEX:Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.DISCLAIMER: This content is for informational purposes only and is not medical advice. Always talk to a qualified healthcare professional for any health-related questions or decisions.

Don't post your children's faces. Every newborn baby looks like a potato. They look different in a week after you post them. So is it really nefarious or still not a great idea to post a picture of the brand new baby when it's first born at the hospital? I still would say no. What is so different about posting your kids now versus 2016? Artificial intelligence? Whole different world than it was in 2016.

Are we posting our kids online in ways that could seriously hurt them later? And are most parents still treating the internet like it's 2016 when in reality the rules have completely changed? Today we're talking about the hidden risks of posting your children online. What most parents don't understand about privacy in the digital age, the dark side of the family influencer economy, and how AI is raising the stakes in ways that most people haven't even considered. This episode is with Leah Plunkett, author of Sherenthood, why we should think before we talk about our kids online and faculty at Harvard Law School. She's one of the leading voices helping families navigate privacy, safety, and childhood in the digital era.

Watch today's episode on the Real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. Please pause and leave a five-star review to support the show before we get started and keep the discussion going in the cute servitude's Facebook group. Please welcome author of Sharon Hood, Leah Plunkett, to Culture Apothecary. Moms are still thinking of 2016, I think, when they're posting just social media now. We're thinking of this 2016 social media landscape when really your saying, saying 2026 is an entirely different ballgame when it comes to posting on the internet. What is so different about posting your kids now versus 2016? One, the depth and the breadth of ways that other people can interact with them and with you.

Second, all the different ways that all the different types of data can be extracted, analyzed, retained, shared. And third, one of the big differences between now in 2020. is the way in which the influencer economy or the influencer industry has really blossomed. There are a lot of wonderful things about that in terms of innovation and entrepreneurship and creativity. And when it comes to your kiddos, there's some real risks to that too. Last but not least, artificial intelligence, whole different world, whole different galaxy than it was in 2016. Yeah, you're right. We had none of that then. It's crazy in just 10 years.

I mean, that really, when you even just thinking of this from AI, how much the Internet has changed in 10 years. I'm like, what's going to be, you know, going on in 10 years now beyond 26? My predictions for 10 years from now, and I have no crystal ball, but they include the following. One is that AI is going to be integrated into wearable devices in ways that will really create a lot of privacy and safety problems, as well as a lot of challenges for staying present in our offline lives. If we can even say something has an offline life, next, I think we are going to have to really dig deep to work with our kiddos and ultimately ourselves to define and refine and maintain commitments to what it means to be human. What are the things that humans should do,

even if AI can do them? Last but certainly not least, I think trying to figure out what is true and what is AI generated is going to be so incredibly difficult that certain, types of dialogues may actually have innovated to the point where they go back to more brick and mortar mentality because there's just not a way to delineate between AI generated untruth or lies and real life facts. What does that mean brick and mortar like landline phones? Yeah. Gosh, I would love that. So landline phones, blue book tests. I am hoping for an ongoing resurgence of really local media, right? Like I grew up in a town in Michigan. We had a thriving daily newspaper. It arrived at our house every afternoon and in the mornings on Sunday. And they sent humans,

real life human reporters, to go do the real live human reporting for community events and they wrote about it. It's funny you say that. I subscribe to a newspaper for that reason. A real physical newspaper I get every Saturday delivered. And I love that. Love that. It's just there's something special about holding it in your hand and a real book in your hand when you're reading. I can't stay in Kindles. I've never owned one. And yeah, anyway, we digress. I'm curious. So you're a mother. Yes. How many kids do you have? I have two kids. Okay. And what are their ages? They're 11 and 15. And so what happened to you to spark your interest in talking to parents about whether or not they should share their kids online? It was a combination of becoming a mom at roughly the same time I became a

legal academic. So I became a new mom back in late 2010, early 2011. And right around in that same time, I started doing legal research for a wonderful university-wide research center at Harvard called the Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society. And I started doing research on educational technologies and the ways that they protected or fail to protect student privacy. And you know those moments sometimes of like cognitive dissonance or something kind of tugging at your sleeve where you're like, this doesn't quite feel right. So I'd be doing my like super deep dive really in the weeds like footnotes and sub footnotes and all the things research on privacy law. And literally Alex, I would take breaks from studying privacy law and I would go to Facebook, which I was on then. I'm not on it anymore.

And I would take a break by looking at my feed and checking posts from people that I knew. And in that era, a lot of my friends were becoming moms and dads for the first time. And so I was looking at these beautiful newborn photos or, hey, so-and-so sleeping through the night. And I started to have that kind of cognitive dissonance feeling of like, here I am burning the midnight oil over what federal and state laws say about what schools. So teachers, principals, school boards, et cetera, can do or not do with students' private information online. But parents, in particular, but also to some extent grandparents and aunts and uncles, they, we can pretty much do whatever we want. And that seemed a little bit strange to me that we were spending a lot of time

in the legal realm, the research realm, and other realms looking at what institutions could do or not do with respect to our children's private information online. But we weren't really talking about the fact that parents and other adults in the home or in familial or close-knit spaces with kids could and were kind of doing whatever they wanted. So if you were to streamline what your position is on this, like why you are anti-parents posting their kids online, what would you say the overall biggest reason is, or like top three reasons? The biggest reasons that I have a lot of pause, not a complete block, but a lot of pause about parents and grandparents, et cetera, posting their kids online, is first and foremost.

I believe that childhood and adolescence should be protected spaces to play. And by play, I don't mean chess or puzzles, although those are great. But I mean make some mischief, make some mistakes, and grow up better for having made them. And if we don't protect childhood and adolescents as life stages, where our kids and teens can play and can explore, then we're depriving them of something really special and really beautiful. and we're also depriving or making it difficult for them to grow up into the humans they're meant to be. I look back on some of the real mischief I made when I was younger and some of the real mistakes I made. And I just am so thankful that I was able to learn lessons from those in ways that were private and contained

where people who knew me and communities who knew me could give me real-time feedback. Like, hey, maybe you shouldn't have said that thing or maybe you shouldn't have done that thing. And it wasn't recorded and shared to the world and preserved for posterity. So that is my top line. Childhood and adolescents should be protected private spaces to play. Our kids and our teens deserve that, both for who they are now and who they're going to become. That's interesting when you say that. I mean, I'm thinking of like just parents even asking for advice, you know, my 13-year-old said this or did this.

What should I do? Like, you have a problem with that. I do if it's not done in a privacy-protecting way. And I should be clear. You know, I'm a sad of my mom myself. My husband, I have two wonderful kids, two wonderful doodles. And being a mom is my most important thing forever and always. So I take very seriously as a lawyer and legal scholar and also as a human, the imperative of parental rights and parental liberty.

Moms are people too. And the number of times that I have phoned a friend to say, hey, I'm trying to think through this parenting thing or this life thing, oh my gosh, all the time. Where I have a problem, though, is if the mom in your hypothetical situation is going on social media or going on a Reddit forum or going anywhere and saying, hey, I'm so and so, my daughter's so and so, I'm really struggling because she's in her room a lot and she's acting out and she's not listening to me. What do I do? If the daughter is identifiable, then I have a problem. problem with the mom exposing the daughter's personal problems in a way that identifies her to the

internet. I don't have a problem. In fact, I think it's essential for the mom in your hypothetical situation and all the real moms and dads and other parents out there to be able to get help and to commiserate and to speak openly about the challenges of parenting along with the joys. it's when the child's privacy is betrayed that I have a problem with it. And there can be real consequences for that child, both now and in the future. So once something's out on the internet, the horse is not going back into the barn. So that 13-year-old who may be slamming doors, not listening to mom and dad, doing all sorts of teen stuff, hopefully and presumably will outgrow that in a few years. Or if it's more serious, she and her family will get the help they need to get through it.

she's going to turn 16, knock on wood, and 18 and 21 and 25, and apply to schools and apply to jobs, and start dating people seriously, hopefully start a family of her own. And if the world can find out that when she was 13, she was slamming doors and not listening to mom and dad, the world might care. The world might not. The world might say, well, that's just kids being kids. But the world, particularly when there are a growing number of systems, many of them supported by AI, that take data. points they can find about us online and aggregate them into profiles of us, make predictions about us. I just think that that mom and your hypothetical situation would be better off and her daughter would be better off now in the future if she found a privacy protecting way to ask for help. When it comes to this debate of mom saying, should I post my child online,

should I not? A lot of parents think this is my child. So therefore, it's my story to tell or share. What's your response to that? So absolutely, parents are living out stories too. And parents are people too. And parents are the ones that the law looks at and says, this is your family. This is your household. So from a legal matter, absolutely. Unless the heaven forbid, the posting crossed the line into abuse, neglect, or criminal

behavior, it really is up to mom or dad if they want to make that part of their household open to the world. The same way, if that mom or dad wanted to throw up in the blinds and throw open the doors and say, hey world, like put up a sign, right? Like, hey world, our 13 year olds being difficult. Why don't you walk inside and watch her, right? Like, mom and dad could do that. It would be kind of creepy and weird, but they could do that. But here's the thing. And part of why I bring up this kind of brick and mortar analogy, I've never met.

Maybe there are some out there, but I've never met. You probably haven't either. a mom or a dad who would actually think that opening up the doors and the windows to their physical homes and inviting the world in to take a look, see what's going on, give us your opinion, see if you can help. We're not going to do that. And we're not going to do that just because it's impractical. We're not going to do that because it feels a little bit creepy and odd for strangers to be looking at our kids. So what I would say to the parent who says, it's my story too, it's my choice, it's my household.

Those are all true. And I would encourage them to reflect on the kinds of decisions they want to make for their story, their life, their household. And do they really want to invite in strangers' gaze on their child and themselves, especially when that gaze is going to last into the future? So, like, when you give a scenario like that, it makes sense to me. And I told Leah, before we started recording, I said, I'm on the fence. I don't know if I'm fully anti-not posting your kid or you just post them, but you cover their face or you post them freely and it doesn't matter. So just know that I'm going to be kind of devil's advocate throughout this episode. I love it.

But because I'm learning. So when you describe a situation like that, like a kid having behavioral issues, to me that is an obvious breach of privacy. I can totally see how AI could go back and say, well, they have a pattern. When they were eight years old to 16 years old, they had all these different behavioral issues. They might be a really, you know, difficult employee or something. That makes sense to me. But like what about something as innocuous or celebratory as your child's sports team winning or your child's ballet recital or family vacation photos? Like aren't those things just moments where kids will be excited to look back and say, oh, my parent was proud of me.

I love that they were sharing. Excellent. And I love devil's advocate. Bring it. That's why I'm here. So a couple of reflections on that. I'm going to start with family vacations and work my way back to sports and celebrations. Family vacations are a really interesting one. I get this question a lot. I do have one pretty hard and fast rule. Not that anyone has to listen to me, but if they're inclined to about family vacations, please no swimsuit photos on social media of your kids. Even if it is completely innocuous and you would be totally comfortable with someone who was at the beach seeing, you know, your five-year-old in their swimsuit, I really don't think it is a good example to set, however implicitly to our kids, that we, you know, you're five-year-old in their swimsuit. I really don't think it is a good example to set, however implicitly to our kids that we, take pictures of each other without all our clothes on and put them on the internet. Because even though I agree there is a world of difference between mom or dad going to Disney, taking a picture at the beach and putting it on Facebook and saying we had so much fun, kids are complicated creatures. Kids, particularly teenagers, have a pretty good radar for either actual hypocrisy or what they

perceive as hypocrisy and no amount to some kids of saying, yes, mommy can take that picture because mommy is an adult and this was on a public beach and so anyone could have seen us so it was appropriate is necessarily going to sink in when that same kid is 16, 17 and in the school locker room and thinking about whether they should take what they think is that totally cute picture of all their teammates in their sports bras. Put it on Instagram and before you know it, that teenager who really is Alex at heart just marrying what they were taught implicitly in the home could be in a lot of trouble. That posting of teammates not fully dressed is very likely to, at minimum, violate a school or school district policies on taking photos, sportsmanship,

and possibly other real privacy barriers. So I just think it's best if you're on family vacation, no swimsuit photos. Next thing I would say is family vacations are definitely a time where people can inadvertently share a fair amount about where they're going to be physically, hey world, I'm not home. I'm on vacation, right? It's a little bit better if you've posted it after you've gotten back. Nonetheless, you have still kind of let the world know a little bit about your patterns. So those are my thoughts on family vacations. Sports, ballet recitals, other celebrations, I think are much more complicated than either the struggling 13-year-old hypothetical or the family vacation hypothetical.

Here's why. Those are moments back in our analog era. So before the early to mid-2010s, let's say, and I'm old, I'm almost 50. I grew up fully analog. I'm tail end in Gen X. Well, you look amazing. It is this wonderful Phoenix Air and the wonderful makeup person introduced me to. But I grew up at a time when we didn't have the option of sharing those kinds of celebrations on what is the equivalent of an international billboard.

So social media platforms, even if your settings are set to private, are an international billboard. But we did want to share them with our community. We wanted to share them with people we cared about who might not be able to be there. Depending on who we were and where we were headed, we might have wanted to share them with an ethnic. recruiter or a future ballet director. So I do think we should give our kids and teens the benefit of having their celebrations celebrated and shared in meaningful, tailored ways. So I'll make that a bit more concrete. My role of thumb about ballet recitals, sports, and the like is if you would be comfortable with what you're about to post going into a local newspaper. And if people don't know what that

You can Google it. Or going into an old-fashioned holiday letter. You can also Google that. But essentially, my grandma used to write one. And that was her year-end wrap-up of anything she was particularly proud of that someone in the family had done. And she would send it to hundreds of people. And my grandparents lived around the world. My grandfather was State Department for many decades.

And so they had professional and personal contacts literally around the globe. And my grandmother was amazing. kept in touch with all of them. And every year, she would send a holiday letter. And she would include sort of big news in it. And it was news that she was comfortable with everyone from my grandfather's former boss at an embassy to their former landlord back when they lived in Missouri scene. And so if Alex, as a parent, you really feel like, hey, this is the kind of thing that is good to have known in the community. And we would be comfortable with everyone. from maybe your current boss to that great aunt you haven't heard from in five years knowing,

then have at it. But I will add, it is wonderful to include our kids in our digital citizenship choices in developmentally appropriate ways that make sense for our family. So if you have a kiddo who is really sort of taking some ownership and awareness over their athletic journey or their ballet trajectory, talk with them about, does this? this posting makes sense. Will it help you? Might it not help you? And really try to engage in that as a family project. Hot take on a first date, you absolutely should ask someone about their health and wellness happens. This is a non-negotiable for me. And it's not in a weird interview way, but like you want to know, do they take care of their body? Do they value their energy? Are they

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Head to paleovalley.com. Use code Alex for 15% off. That's paleovalley.com. code Alex for 15% off anything on the website. What age do you think a child is fully capable of giving consent about them being posted? I don't think a child is fully capable of giving fully informed, fully voluntary consent to a parent's request to post until they are an older teenager or possibly even have attained the age of majority. And I want to be clear, kiddos are different, families are different. I don't pretend to know the exact line. But the reason I'm really hesitant to say

that kids can give fully informed, fully voluntary consent when a parent is asking something is simply that most kids, even those who have the good fortune of being in the most loving homes with the most nurturing caregivers, there's still the kids. And mom, dad, or other parent is still the grown-up. And it can be really hard to say no to the people that you love most in the world in many instances and the people taking care of you, hopefully, if they're asking you to do something. I also think it is hard enough for those of us with adult brains to fully grasp, hey, this little thing that I'm typing out with my thumbs on this tiny computer as I walk in the hall is about to be on the virtual equivalent of an international book. board. I think it is harder still for kids and teens, even though they've grown up digital in a way that many of us adults have not, certainly in a way that I did not, it's just really hard for the brain to kind of get around the idea that this little screen that you're, you know, tippity-tapping

something in is about to broadcast that potentially everywhere and it's never going to go away. It's really, it's hard enough, I think, for kids and teens. and even sometimes all of us adults, to understand the idea of permanence, right, to understand the idea that this choice I'm making now, you can't dial back. So I do think that asking kids, hey, do you think this photo is a good idea? Would you be excited if people could see what a great job you did in the basketball game? Those kind of questions that aren't really kind of consent in a formal or legal way, and certainly from a legal perspective, with like one exception, actually in Minnesota law, which is interesting, but almost all the time, parents or guardians

don't actually need a minor's consent to post a picture, video, or other information about them on the internet. But I do think engaging them in the discussion, the choice, and trying to make it very concrete and very tangible, I think that's a really, really wonderful thing to do, both in terms of that parent-child relationship, that family relationship, but also that kind of digital citizenship modeling that you're teaching that, hey, we don't put other people on the internet if they're not cool with it. A lot of moms are thinking, look, I get it. I have 116 followers. My Instagram is private. Right. I'm posting my kids, but I know everyone that's following me. What do you think about that? I think that that is much lower risk or minimalist sharenting, right?

Sherenting being a portmanteau of sharing and parenting. And I will be totally honest, I am not a tech-free person. I use my technology all the time. I am a shareant in that. I use text messaging to talk to people about my kids. I mean, it's people, I know, it's like their dad, you know, or their grandparents, but that is still technically sharenting, right? It's not on social media, but I'm using a digital device to communicate information about them. So I would say to the mom who's like, I've got 116 followers, I know everybody on it, I'm really not that concerned that somebody is going to take a screenshot and reshare it or take a screenshot and, you know, make an AI generated image of my kiddo. I would say, trust yourself. If you really know everybody

and you're really sure you know everybody, sometimes it can be a little hard to tell, then I would trust your instincts. I would add, tragically, but realistically, we do sometimes see some of the worst actors, the worst perpetrators of harm or threats to kids coming from family circles or friendship circles. So, again, trust your gut. Hopefully that hypothetical mom has no bad actors, no bad seeds in that 116. But sometimes. the people we think we know, we don't know as well as we thought. And any time it comes to sharing children's personal information, children's photos, information that could allow a bad actor to gain access to a child,

know their favorite color where they're going to school, their fears, their hopes. We just want to think really carefully about that. Do you think parents need to be more honest with themselves about why they're posting their child and whose needs it's really serving for them to stop, edit, a photo or a video, caption it, post it. Do you think there's something to that? I think that all of us as parents, and I include myself in this, have so many things that we are trying to do all the time, right? Whether we are working inside the home or outside the home or both, whether we're taking care of adult relatives in addition to our kids, we're volunteering with the PTA or

temple or church, whatever we're trying to do. I think we should start by giving ourselves a lot of grace and a lot of credit because typically we are doing the best we can on that given day. That said, I would encourage all of us, and I'm including myself in this, to build into our daily digital choices, even just the smallest moment of pause. Am I doing this because I am really trying to connect with people who care about me and my family and who are far away and otherwise aren't going to know what's going on? And if I was going to go. And if I was going to to be anti-posting my kid online. I guess my response to that would be it's not really an excuse then.

If you're like, well, I want people, you know, relatives that live far and friends that live far to see my kids, it's not really an excuse to post that on Instagram because you could text or email. Correct. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Because I think, look, and I, and I, I'm just thinking of myself, if I'm posting, if my excuse for like wanting to post my child is, well, I'm posting because I might, you know, I want validation for my child.

I was like, is your child really getting that validation or you? A lot of the time, it's the parent. Right. Because it is the parent who is getting that dopamine hit from the like or the reshare. So then the question becomes, is that wrong? Because it is your kid. You are the parent. You're doing the best you can.

You're pulling out all the stops to be the best mom ever. It's like, is it really bad to post some cool parenting moment because you do want a little validation? You know what I'm saying? I do. And I would say I'm going to give you such an annoying lawyer. answer, it depends. But truly it depends. So I'm going to give you the on the one hand and on the other hand. On the one hand, it's not bad if it's something that is not embarrassing to your child in that moment and you don't reasonably think we'll be embarrassing to them now or in the future.

You don't always know what will be embarrassing to them now or in the future. But let's just say that it's a moment of clear joy and pride for everybody. The basketball team, won the state championships. The ballet recital was awesome. And you're posting that. And maybe actually it is more about your own validation. Look at the child I raised. Look at what they're doing. I don't think it is bad. In fact, I think it's good and natural and in many instances pretty beautiful to be proud of your child and want that validation. On the other hand, given that there are risks that bad actors can see private information about your child? Can you find a way to get that validation,

to get that dopamine hit, to get that sense of, oh my gosh, it worked out? Can you find a way to get that validation, that connection, that thrill, we all want some thrills in our day, by sending that same message over a group chat in an end-to-end encrypted messaging app If you can, please do that.

And if you can't and you really are looking for the broader world or even a broader so-called private account to see you, then I would actually say those are some moments for self-reflection about whether there could be ways to find those same sources of validation as a parent, of connection, of thrill, without actually having to put your child's image. or specific information about your child in it. To give a concrete example, maybe you are a super proud basketball mom or ballet dad. Could you write a short piece for a local newspaper? Could you write a short blog post? Could you even do a social media post that is words without private information

and maybe a generic picture? Right? So proud to cheer on our hometown girls when they beat rival team in state basketball championships. When those girls were out there on the court, we were especially proud of their hustle and the way they set those picks. That type of exchange where you are growing community around youth sports,

you're celebrating your daughter's achievements, and yes, you are bringing some of your own enthusiasm and sense of self to it. Great, but you're not actually making your child's image your child's personal details, the center of it. You're focusing more on your part of the story as the parent and the proud community member. There's a lot of moms in these Facebook groups online where they're posting, you know, my child has this rash. Can anyone diagnose it? Can anybody, you know, give me help on this, this problem I'm having, you know, with behavior or whatever? My kid is suffering with ADHD symptoms. They're getting really bad grades in this subject.

Does anyone have a tutor? Like things like that is what I'm thinking of. are predators using that info to use? Like are they gathering info to use to either blackmail that child later or I don't know. Any time that you are asking for help about a child's personal problem in a Facebook group or other social media forum, there is always a risk that there could be a bad actor in it. The risk goes down if it is a very small forum and you know everybody in it or they're friends of friends. If there is a way, though, if you're in that type of forum to anonymize the situation as much as possible, I would do that. There's a lot of excellent information and expertise that can come out of Facebook groups and the like. So I'm not trying to shut down the ways that we have of communicating with each other.

But I am saying anytime you're saying little Timmy has a rash, hey Facebook, and it's clear who you are, somebody could figure out who little Timmy is, yes. there is always a risk that a bad actor now or in the future could look at that information and use it to embarrass you or your child in some way. Let me tell you something, Leah. I have a Facebook group for women that are fans of this show. And so a lot of it, they're moms. And so they're posting, you know, asking for help or advice or things like that. The rash stuff.

I had to make it a rule in the group. I was like, we're not doing the rash things. The pictures that were being submitted were so, I'm just like, what are you thinking? So, and I have mods that help moderate it. So I pop in occasionally, but I'm not in there all the time. And I had logged in and I see this pending post somebody, you know, is wanting us to approve. This woman has like her hand barely covering this kid's genitalia. The legs are spread, showing the rash.

I'm like, absolutely not. No, no, no. And so we declined it and that mom was irate, like, how dare you? Like, I was trying to get help and all this. There was nothing nefarious about this post. I'm like, listen, lady, that was like the biggest. example of a picture that would get absolutely taken, shared, and done who knows what to. It was so graphic.

And, you know, they were arguing about it and said I was mean. But I guess I mean then. I'm sorry, I was trying to protect your child. But I see those, the rash photos are crazy in these Facebook groups for moms. Right. So I think you were right. You were putting up a guardrail around privacy and safety and also around community spaces.

So whether that was mean, whatever. it was correct and it was right and good for you. And I think that you've picked up on one of the things that's super challenging right now is that the norms in a lot of Facebook groups and other spaces aren't always very child privacy and child safety or honestly even commonsensical. And so it takes somebody to come in and be a clear voice of reason and common sense and safety and privacy. So good for you. As I tell my kids all the time, I'm fine being mean. Mean. In terms of the rash photos and the looking for help, what I would say there is there are so many other ways of trying to get help. And I feel for people, if they don't have easy access to health care

or a health care provider, they trust. But there are ways to find new health care providers. And there are ways to find resources online, even if you can't immediately connect with a health care provider, where you could find an educational resource, right? You can go to a university children's hospital, for instance. A lot of them have excellent resources on children's health, and you can do some research and look up and try to educate yourself about what you're seeing. Should you diagnose, if you're not a medical practitioner? No, you should not. I'm smiling because that same grandma who always used to have the holiday newsletter, the pediatrician for my mom and her two siblings when they were growing up was also a close family friend. And he was known apparently for saying to my grandmother, Gladys, when did you get your MD?

Because she'd bring the kids over to his office and then she would sit down and tell him exactly what the diagnosis was. And he was like, Gladys, listen. But short of that, Alex, there are just so many great trustworthy resources out there. Yeah. So yet no rash genitalia pictures in your Facebook group or anywhere else. If you floss and the sink looks like a low-budget crime scene, that's not normal. People love to ignore this stuff. You know, pink in the sink, right?

They'll do cold plunges, buy a sauna blanket, spend $300 on adaptogenic mushroom dirt and act like bleeding gums are probably fine. It is not fine. Bleeding gums are often a sign of inflammation and periodontal disease. And research keeps finding that skipping flossing is tied to bigger systemic issues, including cognitive decline and dementia risk. Maybe you're not stupid. Maybe you're just not flossing. Some studies have even found that gum disease bacteria is associated with inflammation pathways

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tested. There is no detected forever chemicals, no plastic, just clean ingredients that actually makes sense. It glides. It's microplastic free. And while you're at it, they've got toothpaste and toothpaste tablets that are incredible too. So if you're seeing pink in the sink, maybe your body's trying to tell you something before your brain starts buffering in your 40s. Go to yayzebara.com. Use code Alex for 10% off. That's yay. Cobra.com, code Alex for 10% off. The biggest scam in America isn't hidden in some back alley. It's sitting right there in your inbox every month, your health insurance bill.

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We've all become these little lifestyle philosophers. People are journaling and buying filtered water, deleting seed oils, doing cold plunges, tracking their sleep like they're training for the Olympics. Fine, great. Love that for us, really. But if you're trying to live intentionally, maybe also make sure you're registered to vote. Because nothing is more on brand for modern life than spending $84 on a magnesium footsoak and then finding out your registration is outdated because you moved apartments two years ago.

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It takes about 30 seconds. And all I'm asking is for you to check. your voter status. I'm not even telling you who to vote for, but you can find out if you're registered by going to real Alexclarc.com slash vote. California is now considering letting adults demand deletion of monetized content that their parents posted of them as minors. This is crazy. I had no idea about this. So does that signal that the culture has finally understood that this is a rights issue? Yes, the culture has finally understood that this is a rights issue. And actually, we already have one state, Minnesota, where there is a law that is on the books, where if you are still a minor,

once you've hit the age of 14, if your parents have shared monetized content about you, you have a right to have it taken down to protect your privacy. So think about that for a second. In Minnesota already, we have created as a matter of state law, so we being the good people of the state of Minnesota, but also we as a country now have law on the books that is recognizing a privacy right for the kiddos who are essentially turned into what I call in my work child digital entertainers. Right. We have Hollywood. We have Broadway. We also now have from kitchens, bedrooms, playgrounds, athletic fields, you name it around the country.

We are running in the United States. a billion dollar, billions of dollars, global entertainment industry that has kids in videos, in posts that are being monetized by mom, dad, sometimes by other adults or entities like an LLC. And kids in most states right now don't even have a right to have any portion of that monetization put in an account for them. and only in a very, very small handful of states, California right now being the one everyone is watching, are there even considerations of giving a privacy right to those kiddos either when they attain the full age of majority or when they attain a somewhat older age of minority? So it's a big deal.

One thing that I get hung up on in this debate is I like seeing wholesome family content online. Sure. I think as a culture we've gotten away from celebrating having babies, you know, birth rate is on the decline, the beauty of family, marriage, kids. And so I think we need that content, especially to, you know, show the younger generations how amazing it is, you know, motherhood, et cetera. Sure. So do you agree or disagree with that? Because I'm like, man, if all of social media, nobody's posting moments raising kids and these things, are we hurting ourselves by not. making family look aspirational again. In social media in general, there's a lot of really fun,

funny, fantastic content. A lot of it comes from family life. A lot of it comes from my personal favorite dogs whenever I go on Instagram. They show me so many great videos of doodles because I have doodles. They just know. And like two hours will go by and I'll be like, these doodles understand me. So whatever it is that sort of speaks to you, I think it's wonderful, truly, that we have platforms in this country that allow individuals and families and communities to come together to celebrate things that are beautiful and important to them. So I don't want to see that go away. I am a First Amendment absolutist. Free speech rights are the bedrock of our country in so many ways. Yes. So having said that, though, here's where it gets a little complicated. When one is. making entertainment content out of kids and there's a lot of money that starts to change hands.

We have seen this show before and it doesn't usually have a happy ending without good legal regulation accompanying it. Here's what I mean by that. Going back now almost a hundred years to Jackie Coogan, right, famous child star 1920s, 1930s, California's bedrock national leading law to, protect child performers is called the Coogan Law because Jackie Coogan made a fortune, became an adult, found that his parents had squandered most of it. There was very little left for him. So California looked at this and the California legislature amended their state laws and they've added a few amendments over time to the Coogan Law. But the basic protection of the Coogan law is if a child is going to work in an entertainment industry, and back then it was Hollywood,

the entertainment industries have expanded. But once you reach a certain level of professionalism, so we're not talking, you know, Christmas pageant or porum play or whatever it is at the church or temple or community theater, we're talking, you know, some real money. You are required to put away a certain percentage of that for the child performer into a blocked account and you cannot touch it until they become an adult. So there is something left for them for all the work they are doing. makes sense to me. Yes, I agree. Very common-sensical. So where we find ourselves, though, is less than half the states in the country right now have a version of a brick and mortar or traditional Kugan law on the books. New York is one that does because obviously it has Broadway.

But we haven't had in this country professional theater involving kids at the levels of Hollywood and Broadway in most other states, with a few exceptions. And even in states where, where we have had traditional entertainment involving kids, really all of those laws, almost all of those laws, were not written to contemplate the influencer industry. So what has changed in the past couple of years and huge shout out to Chris McCarty, an amazing young person at the University of Washington,

who has been a national leader in this, for recognizing that, hey, it's really not fair. to go on YouTube or Instagram or wherever it is, and for young people to see their peers performing in influencer content, no matter how appealing the content might be to them. Maybe it's a makeup tutorial, maybe it's the family playing football, whatever it is. Those kids are working.

They're working on a digital stage. And if they aren't getting some protection for what they are doing, then we're not in a healthy place. It's not healthy to have kids being put on these global stages without some legal guardrails in place to recognize the work they're doing and to make sure that they're not being financially exploited by their own parents. It sounds terrible, but it's true. Or other adults in their lives. Here's the other thing I'll add when we're talking about exploitation that, yes, there's some absolutely hilarious, charming, inspirational family influencer content. out there. There is also some dark, dangerous, and downright disgusting content out there that involves

kids and teens being put on digital stages by their own parents. And we need to also recognize that one of the things that's happening right now, and this has been covered by excellent investigative journalism in the Wall Street Journal, in Cosmopolitan, by the New York Times, a number of great outlets that we do also see parents putting kids in family influencer content when you have the nine-year-old girl doing gymnastics in the leotard. And then mom or dad is including a Amazon wish list of things that their daughter wants. And maybe if you pay a little extra, you can have a video chat with the daughter. Those are not always. or primarily about getting the daughter noticed by other gymnasts to make it more concrete,

the Attorney General in New Mexico, they recently won a huge verdict against META, you know, $375 million against META in New Mexico. One of the things that the New Mexico Attorney General found in their investigation that ultimately led to their successful consumer rights suit against META was, they set up a bunch of fake accounts on meta, monitored them to see what would happen. One of the accounts they set up was for a minor, I think 13 or 14 year old girl. They set up a fictitious mother of a fictitious minor to set up a monetized page to exploit her daughter in a sexual way. And that account did not get immediately shut down or taken down.

And I want to be fair to META and other huge social media platforms, they are in the business of offering all of us these really exciting and fun and creative platforms to express ourselves, to avail ourselves of our First Amendment rights. They're not going to catch everything. But there is too much right now that goes into this category of child exploitation, including monetizing kids and teens in ways. that are forms of exploitation, that we are allowing to happen as a society. And I really think we have to deal with that as well as deal with the fun and inspirational or aspirational, as you put at sides. You are so fascinating. You really know yourself. I could talk to you for eight hours. I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so many things I want to say.

And ask about. So, okay, how about this? Every newborn baby looks like a potato. They look different in a week after you post them. You know what I mean when they're first born? So is it really nefarious or still not a great idea to post a picture of the brand new baby when it's first born at the hospital? I still would say no. Why?

Okay, so here's why. This is my compromise. If my husband says I don't want us to post our kids, obviously he's the head of the house and I'm going to do what his wishes are. However, I'm going to be like, well, can I just post when they're very first born? Because they're not going to look the same in a few days anyway. So there's some different considerations in there. So there's a privacy consideration, even if their appearance changes over time. Right.

So especially in the world of technologies we're in, where we have now a whole bunch of AI tools, give it a picture. It'll make an age-generated, right, age-forward version of the picture. So even that little sack of potatoes, that seems indistinguishable from all the other sacks of potatoes, except that is your sack. of potatoes. So it's the most beautiful sack of potatoes in the history of the world. Even that could be fed in to one or more types of technologies to try to predict or generate an image of what that sack of potatoes might look like. The next thing I'd say is that could there be a compromise way? The types of negotiations I've seen households have when parents are not in complete alignment on this can be things like what if we put an emoji over the face? What if we shoot the side of the head or the back of the

head? What if we have that hospital picture where it's mom, dad, maybe grandma, grandpa, who else is there, and a bundle where you're not really seeing the full face? And then we save the full face picture for that end-to-end encrypted group chat with people who are our friends. And they're verified viewers. And we know that their reaction is going to be, that is the most beautiful sack of potatoes I've ever seen in my life, you know, wishing you all. the best. Here's something that happened a few months back to one of my friends and their kids when they were on family vacation at a beach. Her kids are playing on the beach. Her and her husband noticed pretty far down. There's a man with a long lens taking photos of their children.

I don't like this. Right. Right. So they get up and leave. Her husband might have even said something to the man, but regardless, this man was taking photos. And so when she told me this story, my honest reaction was like, see, this is why this whole, I'm not going to post my kids on social media. I mean, why does this even matter? Because everything is recorded. There's cameras everywhere. There are people with their own phone, strangers recording everything, taking photos of everything. When you're in a restaurant, when you're at a grocery store, when you're at a beach. It's like, you can't even control it. So does it really matter not posting your kids online if they're being recorded by anyone and everyone else? Not excusing that man. That was disgusting and sick, obviously.

But I'm just saying like this stuff happens, you can't even control it. So does not posting your kid online really make a difference. I think it does for the following reasons. Okay. One is, hopefully and presumably, although maybe not, given what kinds of identification tools we can have, hopefully and presumably, that totally out of bounds dude with the camera did not actually know who that family was, didn't know the kids' names, didn't know where they lived. Maybe he did. That's a whole other level of potential stalking and creepiness. And, you know, if you think you're being stalked, call your local police. But when it comes to controlling posts that will have more identifying information. So something that links your kid to you, to your address, to kind of a broader

set of information. We as parents are really the gatekeepers of that. And so we can control the depth and the type of information that's posted. We can't control it completely. And I definitely hear from folks, and I've actually had this happen to myself a couple of times, where things have gotten out from other people about one's own kids. And when that happens, You kind of have a couple of options, right? One is to make a decision of like, you know what, we do live in a world where there are lots of cameras and lots of different places, a lot of people with phones. We really should, unfortunately and infuriatingly expect that if we are not in the privacy

of our own home or a friend's home or the equivalent, that there could be a camera somewhere. Yeah, like your own kids play sports. You know, at a game, some other parent is filming their kid playing. and your kids in the background. I mean, what happens then? So it's complicated, right? So I have actually heard sometimes directly from kids and teens about this because some of them, the ones who know me, know that I work on Internet and privacy and family law.

And no joke, I have gotten a complaint from a wonderful middle schooler saying, hey, it really annoys me when moms on the other team of the sport I'm playing are recording the game because they're trying to record their own kids, so their own kids look good, and they're trying to make our team look bad. So the kids are noticing. And what I have said in those types of situations, especially if it's a kiddo asking me, is if you're comfortable, tell your own mom or dad or grandma or grandpa, tell your coach, see if an adult in your life can have a conversation with that mom and ask her not to do it. Or depending on what venue you're in, there could actually be. be rules. There are a lot of schools, both public and private, that do now have rules, some of them

go and force, some of them don't, about who can film and when and what can be done with it. I think it's really prudent for schools, but also club teams and rec centers and anywhere that you know you have gatherings of kids to play sports, put on shows, and so on, to actually have policies about who can take pictures and when and why and what can be done with them. And ideally somebody who is an ambassador, a representative of that venue, can remind everybody at the beginning, hey, we're here to see our kids play. This is in no recording zone. If we see you with your phone out recording, we're going to ask you to put it away. It's up to us to be the adults in the room, literally and metaphorically, when it comes to identifying what spaces,

should ideally be recording free for our kids and teens. Parents panic about TikTok, but what should they know about these seemingly innocuous gaming apps that their kids are using? Gaming is often a portal to being in dialogue or sometimes video streaming with strangers from around the world. So there are hidden layers in these apps where kids can go into other areas of the internet or even chats with people. Yes. Yes. And they're not, I will say sometimes they hide in place. sight. So I think a lot of parents are increasingly asking questions and looking under the hood, so to speak, of social media apps. And to give social media platforms credit, a lot of them are being a lot more family friendly and family forward about, hey, this is what a teen account looks like,

and here's where the parental controls are. Gaming apps, even though a lot of them offer parental controls, whether they are apps on the phone or video console, I think a lot of parents, Honestly, forget to go in and say, okay, does this game make it possible for strangers to find my child and chat with them as they're playing the game? Does this game make it possible for strangers to video call with my child while they're playing this game? Oh, yeah. What games are doing that? Yeah. They're really most of the major games right now.

Okay. What about, is there anything parents should know about Minecraft or Roblox? I think Minecraft and Roblox are two of the better ones when it comes to family controls and family information. I think with Minecraft, with Roblox, though, with any game that your child is playing that is not like chess, a puzzle, right? You know, something that you can see all the pieces of in your house. You should take a few minutes before you set it up to do the following. First, check out Common Sense Media. They're my go-to.

see what they have to say about the game. They're a really good source for parents who are trying to figure out what kind of features exist in the game. Second, take a look at the fine print. You don't have to read the teeny tiny stuff. I know my eyes are going, but you can go just Google the game and ask for a list of the features it has enabled. See if there is chat, if there is video, et cetera.

And then further Google, what are the parental control settings for this? want to be clear, I really do believe fundamentally in the decency of humankind. I do not think that people are showing up to work at social media platforms, gaming companies, or really anywhere else and saying we want to do things that put kids and teens and families in harm's way, right? That's just not, I think, how people work. And it's not fundamentally how to build products and services that are going to stand the test of time. I think, though, that tech evolution moves very, very quickly, and we don't yet have a comprehensive system of laws across this country that require social media platforms, gaming platforms, et cetera, to build privacy protecting safe yet still fun

products. So absolutely, for any and all games, take a little time to educate yourself as a parent, figure out those parental controls, set them, monitor them. And then if you want to get even fancier, you can check out what kinds of family controls and family restrictions the device provider, your internet provider, your cell provider may have so that you could actually block certain websites after a certain time of night or at any time of day. What is the scariest downstream use of a child's image or voice that might be? most parents do not even know about or haven't even considered. The downstream use of a child's image or voice to perpetrate fraud or crime against another

family member or friend. And here's what I mean. I don't mean the child or teen themselves would do that. I mean that a child's image or voice would then get picked up in some type of social engineering scam where. Oh, yes. Yeah. It's like they're holding your kid.

You need to give us $50,000 right now. And it's your kid. It's their voice. You're like, they have them. But really, they took voice stuff from online and they used AI to make a new video. That's exactly what I mean. Ooh, yeah. And that was actually first put on my radar, as so many of these things are, Alex, by a high school student.

I was giving a talk at a school in Massachusetts, a wonderful all-girls school, super great. And I was there to talk about careers and technology and law. And one of them brought up in the Q&A that, they were really concerned about how to protect their grandparents from that. And they said, you know, I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on what's real and what's not on mine. And she probably did. It seemed like a smart cookie. But she said, my grandparents don't.

And so we talked a little bit about developing a family safe word or phrase that you tell everyone. And especially talking to grandma, grandpa, or other members of a family who might be a bit more vulnerable to the kind of emotional manipulation, the emotional ploy of like, hey, grandma, you know, I'm in a foreign country and you need to send 50 grand right now where they're going to do something to me. Yeah, virtual kidnapping. That's what it's called. That is one of the terms for it. I mean, you call it extortion, etc. But basically any time that you are getting kiddo image or voice or video and repurposing it to perpetrate a criminal attack on another family member by misrepresenting the a situation that that kiddo or teenager is in, that is one of the scariest downstream effects to me.

Are there any common household items, toys, or devices besides computers and phones that parents should be thinking about differently? Parents should be thinking differently about household assistants. So the, hey Alexa, hey Siri, any time you are inviting in a digital-based assistant to help in your household. Yes, it's efficient and there are a lot of positives and it is collecting information. It is listening and it is interacting with your child. And so kids do figure out from pretty young ages, hey Siri, hey Alexa, hey whomever. And you're not always going to know. You're not always going to be there to hear what those interactions are. And I think actually more worrisome to me because certainly, you know, the series and Alexis and digital assistance provided by major companies at this point, I'm less worried about what they might say, although I would note that especially with the abundance of information on the internet, many of us as parents, myself included, do pay very close attention to the information quality and content that our kids are getting so that it is accurate and respectful.

but I do think being very aware of the listening function that these household assistants can have, I would say be extra aware if you are using a video or other form of digital baby monitor or nanny cam, you are then setting up surveillance in your home of your child, potentially of your nanny or your relatives. and there can be reasons that parents might choose to do that. I always get a little twitchy when a household is setting up surveillance, its own surveillance of the people inside of it. I, and I have friends that I love very much that do that.

I don't understand that. I don't understand. And I guess it's just because, you know, we want to be able to check on our kids in the middle of the night, make sure they're still in their bed. Right. Like, why can't you just get up? Because this stuff you're saying,

if it's on Wi-Fi, a baby monitor or a camera in your child's room. It can be hacked and people can be watching. It can. I'm always concerned about the potential for hacking of a digital video device in a home involving kids because it can be hacked or repurposed. I am though even more concerned when that device has some type of two-way functionality to it. So it's not just mom or dad trying to see if the kids asleep or mom, dad, you know,

at the office trying to see what's happening in the home with a caretaker when they're not there. So any time you have a back and forth, so it's not just the surveillance, but you can talk back and forth, for instance, especially if the device is enabled to talk for itself. And we're starting to see some market entrance there around AI-enabled devices that are there to also try to provide some companionship or care for people in the home. This one is now more even for older family members. So again, any time you have that digital actor coming in and engaging with a loved one in a domestic setting, we have privacy risks, we have hacking risks. We also have risks, Alex, I think, around the displacement of human relationships.

And I want to be very clear. I don't want to be a hypocrite. Again, I am pretty much glued to my cell phone, especially when I'm not at home. And I want to make sure I'm keeping up my kids and work and friends and family. But I do think that when we are at home and we are doing home things, when we outsource caregiving relationships to digital devices more than is necessary to keep a household basically functioning. And that does look different for different people. But I think we're doing ourselves as humans a bit of a disservice. What do you think about sticking an air tag on your kids to keep track of them or sharing location with your kid so you can see where they are. I think for kids who are on the moves by themselves, having some sort of way

to identify where they are for safety reasons only makes very good sense. Here's what I'm uncomfortable with though. I am uncomfortable with transmitting more information to more people then is strictly necessary to have a baseline idea of safety. And I'm also uncomfortable with thinking a device is ever going to replace street smarts. So there are things that you can toggle on on devices that kids have, whether it's a wearable watch or a phone or if they're carrying around an iPad that has a cell plan attached to it. You can turn on, you know, if it's an Apple device, find my friends, for instance,

and have their location shared back to you as the parent. I think something like that that just basically says, yes, I can figure out, you know, where in the world my child is, I think there's, that makes a lot of sense. And it makes a lot of sense within families, not just with kids, hoping and assuming everyone's in a family that respects safety and boundaries. But, you know, I will just own, I commute, you know, between state lines, sometimes pretty late at night. My husband can absolutely see and find my friends where I am. I want it that way. My parents can see too. Sometimes my dad will call me. And he's like, hey, and I'm like, are you looking at find my friends and wondering why I'm here? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, I'm here for a conference. But I think some amount of that is good family safety practice. What I don't like is when people go beyond the basic ability to do a quick check and see, you know, in case of emergency or in case someone was expected to check in and you haven't seen them. I don't really like setting up a lot of. I don't really like setting up a lot of. elaborate notifications. So for something like Find My Friends, when it's a parent to a child,

you can set it up so that Find My Friends will notify you if your child leaves a certain place, for instance. I don't super love that. I feel like our kids should learn how to check in with us and respect the rules and the boundaries and the plans that we're making with them. I also don't super like the apps that go beyond sort of the basics, sort of the basics, finding the device and try to give you kind of information or insights about what your kid is up to. I've seen some really good reporting on the ways in which some of those surveillance apps, Life 360 is one, can sometimes lead to some false positives, right, that if you have that kind of app enabled and it's shooting off alerts that, you know, somebody is moving in ways that

you don't expect. You're at a different location and maybe that person, you know, finally decided to take that hot air balloon ride. I don't think we need that much information about our family members from what's basically a surveillance app. I think that we should get information from our family members that they want to share with us and that we want to share with them. What should grandparents hear in this conversation? Because I think, and it's obviously not malicious, but I think sometimes relatives can be the biggest boundaries. revilators. It's not necessarily like an influencer, right? So what do you, like, what's your advice for people who struggle with getting the mother-in-law or the father-in-law or their own

parents to respect these rules about not posting their kids? I get that question about grand sharenting or in-law sharenting a lot. And as with so many things in our lives, sometimes it's the people closest to us that actually can be the hardest for us to have these direct conversations with because there's a lot of emotion there. So I encourage a couple of things. First is, I encourage mom, dad, or other parent, and if they're partnered to have that discussion and really come up with how they feel as a household about their expectations for online privacy or safety, the same way that if your kiddo had a food allergy, you would absolutely be telling grandma or grandpa, hey, don't feed them peanuts or whatever it is. If you have decided as a household in whatever

way you come to that decision for you. In this household, we don't post our kids' faces online. In this household, we don't post any pictures of our kids online. So it's a little bit like the digital equivalent of the food safety or the gun safety or whatever health issue is really important to you in your household. Kind of, you know, take a deep breath and have that conversation and try to have it in a way that is calm and matter of fact and direct. but that you also bring to it, Alex, the same level of vigilance and concern that you would have, if you were saying, no, you really can't feed them peanuts. They will have anaphylaxis. If you really have decided as a household that you feel that strongly about protecting the boundaries of your children's online privacy and safety, say it the same way. Next thing I would say is if you can bring to that conversation, this podcast or another type of open public discussion and share that with the grandparent you're talking to. So you can really normalize and empathize and say, hey, this is something that families everywhere are really

wrestling with. We are part of wrestling with that in our family too. So it's not that you folks are doing anything wrong. It's not that you folks are, you know, kind of out there. No one else is trying to figure this out. We're all trying to figure this out. And here's why we want to figure it out. Last but not least, with family, compromise is key. So if you feel comfortable and that it comports with your values as a household, if there maybe is one or two things that you're comfortable with grandma or grandpa doing, I will always come back to my Nana's holiday letter. So if you're comfortable with grandma or grandpa doing a Facebook equivalent of a holiday letter every year. Maybe you want to pre-read it. Maybe if you've older teenagers, you want to let them pre-read it,

then maybe offer that as a compromise and a way to honor their enthusiasm and their pride and their desire for connection, but in a way that is privacy respecting and boundaries. If a parent is listening right now and they're suddenly feeling convicted because they've posted a lot over the years of their children, what should they do first? Should they? Should they? delete everything? Do they just need to archive it? Should they ask their kids? Should they change their settings? The first thing they should do is take a deep breath and be gracious with themselves because this is very hard stuff to figure out for all parents. And it is healthy and good for all of us to keep open minds about it and be willing to change our habits. So that would be

where I would start. The next place I would start is to think about going back and taking a little digital inventory, little digital spring cleaning, fall cleaning, whatever season it is, maybe do it in small increments. I don't know. I always get overwhelmed if I'm like, I have to clean out the mudroom closet and get rid of the ski stuff and get the swimsuit stuff. I do much better if I'm like, okay, I can do this for 20 minutes and then go play with my doodles and then I'll do it for 20 more minutes. So if it is easier to go back in like 18 to 20 minute increments and just kind of take stock and then start to see what you have there and absolutely. Absolutely. If you're seeing stuff where you're like, oh, I'm actually not so sure that the world needs to be able to so easily find my reflections on my daughter's potty training or my rant about my son's temper tantrum. Because gosh, that sort of seems more private with that type of thing where you're like, I would say if there's a picture or video or something you want to make sure you have for your own purposes, download it to your Google Drive, your Dropbox, set it to private, and then just delete it. Just get rid of it. You don't need it.

For things that maybe you're like, oh, actually, I'm not sure I would do this in the future, but it's pretty innocuous. Maybe other people are tagged in it and I know that it matters to them. That maybe I would leave up or go in and change the settings on the post to somewhat more private. Last but not least, I don't know about you, but for me, sometimes when I am trying to really reckon with and really change my relationship with a daily habit, I just have to go cold turkey on it. Right? And like I can kind of, you know, try to fool myself, maybe even delude myself. Like, oh, I can just do a little less of it.

It was like when I decided I had to stop drinking Coke. Right. Or I had to look at fewer doodle reels on Instagram because it was taking me too long, you know, to get out the door on my morning run. Like, oh, no, it'll be fine if I just, you know, five minutes with the doodle videos and then 50 minutes go by and I didn't get my run in that morning. I just stopped. Or I stopped for a little bit.

I just, you know, that old Paul Simon song, 50 ways to leave your lover. There's a line, slip out the back jack. Just get off the app, Jack. Just get off of it. If you want to get back on it, you can later. And if somebody's listening in there, like, well, I still do want to post my child. But I would like Leah's advice on what's the best way I could do that? If you had one wish for everyone that's still wanting to post their kids, what would it be?

Don't post your children's faces. My others would be don't include. address, clearly identifying geographic details, don't include things that a bad actor, whether a stranger or heaven forbid, someone in your social circle could use to try to gain access to your kid. And last but not least, really think before you post, even if your kid is included, could I possibly get close enough to the same goals I'm trying to accomplish if I did not include my If a teenager is listening in the car right now, what do you want them to know about posting online? I want teenagers to know that even if you think it is secret, even if you think it is private, unless it is end-to-end encrypted app, which, by the way, you should only be using with your best friends and family members, do not get into end-to-end encrypted chats like WhatsApp or signal with people that are not your nearest endeavourable.

that you also trust. What I would say to teenagers is before you post, even before you text, just take a moment and imagine that your vice principal, your mom, your dad, your coach, your director, your grandma, your grandpa is looking and reading everything you've just shared. If you're still cool with being in that situation, go ahead. If you're not, figure out a way to tell the joke, tell the story, have the moment, whatever it is, without transmitting it via message or on social media. Landlines are great. Chatting in the hall, as long as you're not breaking school rules, also great. Even better, Alex, hang out with your friends and classmates in person. That is a lost art. It is. Get it back. Oh my gosh. I was so, I was so sad the other day.

I was walking behind two first-year college students, and they'd woken up very early that morning. And one of them said to the other, waking up early is really great. We have a lot more time in the day. And the other said, yeah, that's true. But I really like our late night time. And we would lose that if we woke up early. And the first one said, yeah, but I don't really use the late night time for anything good. I'm always kind of up to no good late night. And I'm kind of smiling and like, yeah, as it should be, right? You're 18. And the other one says, I know what you mean. Late night, I'm just on my phone. And I have this moment like, okay, I cannot be the weirdo who inserts myself into a private conversation that I just happened to like fall into step behind. And I wasn't.

But I so desperately wanted to say, kids, you are not going to get your late night time with your college roommates, your college friends, your college classmates whom you haven't even met yet back. So put down your phone. If you don't want to go out and about, fine. Go to sleep, get up right and early. That's great. But go make a new friend. Go do something new. Get into a random conversation in someone else's common room.

Do whatever it is. But please do that with other humans. And I really do get sad for kids, teens, and even some of our young adults because that kind of of human to human, serendipitous, mysterious. You kind of don't know where the hanging out's going to go, but you know you want to be there. There's not enough of that anymore, and it gets harder as you get older.

Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Tell us what the name of your book is. The name of my book is Sherenthood, why we should think before we talk about our kids online. It is out from MIT Press, and it aims to give all of us, but especially parents, grandparents, and other trusted adults in kids' lives, a way to ask ourselves

the kinds of hard, thoughtful, and urgent questions, Alex, that you've asked me today. Are you on social media for people to follow? I am. I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. I know it's super nerdy, but that's where I am. I do have Instagram, but as I said, I'm not on it much because truly, when I go on, two hours go by.

And I'm like, look, it's two doodles and one is well behaved and one isn't. that's like my doodles. Or then even worse, they start showing me the two dog videos where the dog's like mom better than dad. And I start following my husband around being like, see, see our doodles like me best. And he's not on Instagram at all. And he's like, please stop.

But I would love to hear from your listeners who have questions, have reflections, have things I haven't thought of yet. And they can find me on LinkedIn. Okay, great. Thank you for sharing that. I ask every guest this at the end of every interview I do. if you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would it be?

My one remedy to heal a sick culture would be read more books in hard copy and talk about those books in hard copy with family, friends, colleagues, and strangers. I love that remedy. I love that. Leah, you were such a delight. I don't even know what time it is, what day it is. Like, I was so fully focused in this conversation. It was enlightening. I learned new things. You might have me fully convinced. I think it might be easier for me to now go along with whoever I marry if they don't want us posting our kids.

You are very good at what you do. And thank you for your activism and advocacy. It's super important. Anyone who is in the business of protecting kids is a friend. So thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me, Alex. Thank you for the crucial conversations that you lead. and I'm very proud to be part of them.

Did this episode change your mind about posting your kids online? Or maybe you still want to post your children, but you plan to be more strategic. Or this episode didn't change anything for you, and you will still be posting away. I want to hear about your decision and why in a five-star review or the KutServative's Facebook group. This content is for informational purposes only

and is not intended to be taken as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding any questions or decisions related to your health or medical care. You can listen to new episodes every Monday, Sunday and Thursday at 9 p.m. Eastern or 6 p.m. Pacific. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.