Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - The Problem With Hydroxyapatite Toothpaste | Zebra's Jenn Thatcher

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

Everyone's ditching fluoride for hydroxyapatite. But is it actually safer? 🦷Jenn Thatcher didn't just go along with the trend — she pushed back. After believing her children were affected by products she trusted, and then facing her son's brain tumor diagnosis, she became relentless about ingredient safety. She's the founder of ZEBRA, a non-toxic personal care brand built on one principle: clean is black and white — no gray area.Thank you to our sponsors!GEVITI: Use code "ALEX" to get 20% off of your first purchaseTECH WELLNESS: Use code "ALEX" for 15% off EMF-Free Air Tube HeadphonesPRIMALLY PURE: Use code ALEXCLARK for 15% off your first orderREDMOND: Use code "ALEX" for 15% off your purchaseQ FOR QUINN: Use code "ALEX" for 15% off your non-toxic clothing todayUTZY: Use code “ALEX” for an exclusive discountPALEOVALLEY: Use code ALEX for 15% off your first orderOur Guest:Jenn ThatcherJenn's Links:WebsiteInstagramZebra InstagramFOLLOW ALEX:Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.DISCLAIMER: This content is for informational purposes only and is not medical advice. Always talk to a qualified healthcare professional for any health-related questions or decisions.

You still have these people that are convinced, if I don't use toothpaste with fluoride in it, I'm going to get cavities. God didn't design our bodies to need toothpaste. If you're doing things like having a clean diet and addressing mouth breathing issues, that's the foundation. Most toothpaste companies don't want you to know that your saliva is actually designed to remineralize your teeth. Our position is just we source ingredients and create formulas that honor the systems that God designs. I never wanted another family. I'd be sitting in a hospital room like we were. If anybody's going to create a brand that has uncompromising standards,

it's going to be a mother whose children were harmed by the system. Everyone in the wellness space suddenly agrees on one thing. Hydroxy-apotite toothpaste is the clean alternative to fluoride. But here's the problem. Anytime everyone agrees in wellness, it usually means no one is asking enough questions. Because while hydroxyappetite is being marketed as non-toxic and effective, the reality is a lot more complicated if you ask today's guest, especially when you start talking about nanoparticles, long-term exposure, and what we actually don't know yet.

Today's guest didn't just go along with the trend, she pushed back on it. After believing her children were affected by products she trusted and then facing her son's brain tumor diagnosis, she became relentless about ingredient safety, questioning everything, including the ingredients now being labeled as safe alternatives. Thatcher is the founder of Zebra, a non-toxic personal care brand built on one principle. Clean is black and white. There's no gray area. Watch today's episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. Don't forget to pause. Leave a five-star review really quick. Let us know what was the first episode you ever listened to of the show. Maybe it's this one.

Maybe it was another one. I'd love to know the first one and then your favorite one. Keep the discussion going in the cute servatives Facebook group. Please welcome my friend Jen Thatcher, the founder of Zebra, to Culture Apothecary. Everything that I thought that I knew about oral hygiene was apparently garbage. I mean, the type of toothpaste that we're supposed to be using, the floss that we're supposed to be using. You know, just mouthwash in general. Mouthwash is terrible for your oral microbiome. Nobody told me any of that.

And you still have these people that are convinced if I don't use toothpaste with fluoride in it, I'm going to get cavities. So I'm willing to go non-toxic on everything. But I've got to keep fluoride in my toothpaste or my cavities are going to come back. What's your response to it? that. I don't think that's accurate. So Zebra's response is obviously different than most of the dentist's own toothpaste brands because we look at how the body is designed and it was designed by the creator. So God didn't design our bodies to need toothpaste in general. So if you're doing things like having a clean diet and addressing mouth breathing issues, like that's the foundation. But then to go even

further, most toothpaste companies don't want you to know that your saliva is actually designed to remineralize your teeth. And so your saliva is rich in calcium and phosphate, and it pulls in ions and proteins and minerals. And it's just a super sophisticated, advanced mineral delivery system. So you actually have an onboard remineralization system. And so that's why at Zebra, we created our formula to work with the body and support that remineralization. So, you actually have an onboard remineralization system. system. But it doesn't contain fluoride and it doesn't contain hydroxyapitite because we just want to support the system that got created. So if somebody throws out their fluoride toothpaste tomorrow, what actually is determining if they get a cavity or not? They definitely need to have a clean

diet. Like that's the foundation. And then again, the mouth breathing and addressing tongue ties, not snacking all the time is really important because we want to make sure that you're giving the saliva a chance to like rest. and pull all those minerals and ions and all the good things into it. And we're disrupting that when we're constantly drinking stuff all day long. Exactly. Like, we're all sippers. Yes.

And women especially, women will have like seven drinks on their desk at work and they're just, here's my tea, here's my gatorade. Well, this is my, you know, sparkling water and my energy drink. Like they're drinking so many things at once all day long in their mouth never gets a break. Yes. So we were not designed for that. So really if you just look at how the body was designed and what God intended, like that's the blueprint for health, not just in oral health, but in everything. You can't cheat the system. So although fluoride can actually help with cavities, what is it doing to the rest of the body?

And that's the question that we also ask with hydroxyapatite. So that's the reason we chose to leave hydroxyaptite out of our toothpaste because we believe it's actually creating the potential for more. problems than good. To start questioning something as innocuous as toothpaste, there's always like a massive come-toxic moment when it comes to non-toxic living. Like everybody has a story on that. With you, you weren't somebody who just started obsessing over ingredient lists, right? So you were a mom who trusted the system until you were given a reason not to. What happened to you? All three of my children have had health issues. I don't talk much about my oldest daughter, but she has autoimmune disease. So that's just become so normalized in our society that that's not even something that I've ever really discussed. So that was just something we were dealing with. And then my youngest had an

ovarian cyst at four years old, was rushed into emergency surgery. When the pathology results came back, they said that she was one of one for a four-year-old having an ovarian cyst as big as her ovary, and she had ovarian torsion. They'd just never seen it before in a four-year-old. So that was really strange. That sent me down a rabbit hole of like, okay, I'm eating all the organic foods, you know, buying all the expensive things for my family as far as non-toxic and products. Like what could have caused this if she was one of one? And then six months later, my son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. We ended up having brain surgery. And when the doctor came back after surgery, he did research and he believed that his tumor and location was one of 20.

in the world. And so when we brought him home after being in the hospital, I just wanted to support his detox and were not a family that takes medications and he had been on all the prescription drugs for 12 days in the hospital. So it was really important to me that I just took another look at our food, at our products, all the things to make sure I could support his recovery and his detox. What bothered me the most was the toothpaste and the deodorant. I just felt like the hydroxyopatite toothpaste we were using, I didn't have a problem with hydroxyopetite at the time. I had a problem with some of the preservatives and some of the ways they were sourcing and then the deodorants, you know, even though they were labeled as clean and natural, they had fragrance in them.

And so what I felt is there was this big disconnect between the front of the label and the ingredient panel. And I just felt like so many consumers are being marketed to in a deceptive way in the clean, organic, natural space because they see these beautiful, clean, clean, looking labels. And I think every mom has had that moment where they've bought a supposedly clean product where they come to find out, well, wait a second. This isn't actually as good as I thought it was. And so that's how I felt about the toothpaste and the deodorant at that moment. And I just started looking for something better. And I just, I couldn't find anything. And I'm not some like oral care enthusiast. Obviously, I have no dental background. I'm not a chemist.

I'm a mom that paid a price to be here. When I decided to start zebra, I, you know, really didn't anticipate the backlash from the dental industry and the dentists own toothpaste brands who constantly say she's not a dentist, she doesn't know what she's talking about. And I actually love what Del Bigtree said in his opening for the Malibu Film Festival when he did his movie, The Inconvenient Study. He said, a mother who has been harmed, whose children have been harmed by the system is the best researcher on the planet. That is the love. love and intention that went into creating Zebras products is just knowing that I never wanted another family to be sitting in a hospital room like we were to be wondering if they could have

done better. And so I just know that there are things in our environment that are really fake and terrible, our food, our water, our air, our products, all the things. And so I just felt like there was definitely a need and a hole in the market for a toothpaste specifically that was really beautifully sourced and was truly working with the body's design and not against it. You're a mom who has had multiple sick kids with catastrophic situations and you're trying to clean up their personal care products. You come out with your own toothpaste that's not using, you know, some of the popular ingredients that other non-toxic toothpaste still use. And there's like a complete and total harassment campaign against you because you don't want to use hydroxy appetite and toothpaste.

So the funny story is I was actually developing a hydroxy appetite toothpaste. So I was using one and I loved the ingredient just like everyone else. But when I sourced these ingredients and made these formulas, I decided that every single ingredient, including the water, needed to have a spot and I was going to research it at length to make sure it made sense. I came from a place of like, I trust nothing. So I'm going to make sure that every single thing is completely safe. And so the last thing I expected was to research hydroxy appetite and pull it out of my toothpaste. But after a year and having approved formula for a hydroxy appetite toothpaste, I decided that the long-term studies were flimsy. A lot of the research is funded by the hydroxy appetite. And

industry or people who profit from the sale of hydroxyaptide. There is a study about the nanoparticle that's actually funded by the ingredient maker of the nanoparticle. So that's the one that says it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. So you're banking your blood brain barrier on a study that was done by the person who benefits financially. That's just how a lot of these studies are. They're just very flimsy. And so I feel like at best, it's questionable. And then the animal studies show the potential for calcifying in the organs, calcifying in the tissues, the nano can cross cell membranes.

You know, there's still debate onto which particle can cross the blood brain barrier. But the marketing has just been so heavy for the hydroxyapatite. And it's just been really surprising to see how the holistic community just kind of blindly trusted, especially nanohydroxy appetite, because nanoparticles prior to nanohydroxy appetite being introduced were something that the holistic community was not on board with, like nano sunscreen. Like, no, I don't want the nanosenscreen. I want the sunscreen with the regular particles because people know that nanoparticles can cross barriers, that they're not intended across.

Our position is just we try to source ingredients and create formulas that honor the systems that God designs. And in no place do I believe hydroxyapatite does that because it can create interference with how the saliva is meant to deliver the minerals to the teeth. It's shocking to me the amount of pushback you would get on this because to me I'm just like, who cares if somebody wants to have a toothbrush. that doesn't use hydroxy appetite. Like, why are they so angry about you doing this?

And you're using xylitol in your toothpaste. And people are angry that you're talking about hydroxyapatite. It's been interesting. So I think there's a couple things going on. I think, number one, we've received the pushback from the Denison Toothpaste brands because they have planted their flag on hydroxyapititis safe. And so that's the difference between those brands and zebra. We will never plant our flag on any ingredient.

We plant our flag on we're a wellness brand. We love the consumer. And if ever an ingredient, you know, become something that we think is harmful, it'll be gone. Yeah, you're willing to change with the science. Absolutely. The science, for sure. But we also want to look at, you know, who funds the science and who is putting the studies out and all of that and take it into consideration. And I think these hydroxyopetate companies didn't take that into consideration.

or they just don't want to hear it because it's a very profitable ingredient right now. They see zebra as a threat because we're a wellness brand. We're not an oral care brand. There's like so many different directions we can go. But the only, you know, thing that's important to us is that people know that we will change if we need to because our only goal is not to trick people. It's to provide ingredients and products that truly help their health and not hurt them. So you go down this rabbit hole, you start questioning everything, and then at what point do you realize, I mean, I think I've got to build an entire brand. Like, there's nothing in the wellness space that's up to my standards.

I couldn't find the toothpaste. And I think I was just so deeply bothered by what happened to my children that I felt like if anybody's going to create a brand that has uncompromising standard. it's going to be a mother whose children were harmed by the system. I just felt like, if not me, then who? I just felt uniquely qualified to do it because what I learned in the research of looking for the good products was that, you know, these companies are sourcing, you know, dirty ingredients and calling them clean. When I first started sourcing ingredients and having manufacturer meetings, one of the first

questions that the manufacturers would ask me is, what do you want your unit cost to be. And I would say, what do you mean? What do you want my unit costs to be? Like, I need you to go source the good ingredients first, and then we'll talk about that. But that's not how other brands do it. They come to them with a desired unit cost, and then they backdoor in the ingredients, and they start trying to find the cheapest ingredients that they can put in there to make that formula profitable. And that's just not how we do things. So as a mom, looking into these so-called natural brands, what were some of the ingredients that made you think, like, this is fake, clean. This is fake non-toxic. I mean, a lot of the preservatives, you know, aren't as clean as they say they are. And just the way

they source bothered me a lot. It came to my attention that a lot of these brands are either sourcing ingredients, you know, from China, which isn't the worst thing in the world. But you have to test these ingredients when they're coming from that region. Everything of yours is made in the USA? All of our products are made in the USA with the exception of the dental floss because we couldn't find anyone in America to make it to our standards. And then the toothbrush, which is also made in Italy. So the toothbrush is made by a company that's been making toothbrushes since the 1800s. And the bristles are made of boars here. And the acetate is made from the same factory that Prada makes its sunglasses.

These blood work companies are often lying about the price. I keep seeing people say, oh, it's only $30 a month. No, that is not actually what you're going to pay. Here's what happens. You sign up, great. Then you need your blood drawn. Well, that's extra. You want to talk to a human about your results.

That's another fee. You need supplements, separate purchase. You need real treatment like hormones or peptides. Sorry, not available. Go find another doctor and then pay again. So that cheap membership that you guys are thinking about doing for getting your biomarkers tested and all of your blood work actually turns into this expensive scavenger hunt where nothing connects.

So this is why I switched to Jevity. Unlike a lot of these other testing companies like Function Health or other ones that are super popular, Jevity is not only going to give you all of the answers in your blood work. They have an entire team to go through your blood work with you and then come up with plans, right? Like, okay, based on your blood work, what supplements would we recommend? What nutrition goals should we set? What lifestyle goals should we set? Nobody else is doing that.

So with Jevity, the price is the price. You get comprehensive blood work, over 90 biomarkers tested, a personalized long Jevity blueprint that actually explains what's going on. You get provider visits included, a care team that you can message, supplements, peptides, hormone support, all managed in one place based on your labs. And they retest every six months to actually adjust your plan. That's the difference. It's not just testing. It is testing, explanation, and actual action. And if you've already wasted money somewhere else and you're sitting on labs that you don't understand, Jevity just launched a free tier. Now this is important. Listen to me. You can upload your results from previous blood work that you've gotten done,

that you have no idea how to understand without paying anything on gogevity.com, and they will tell you what it means. Gogevity.com, this is all free. You can use code Alex, okay? Gogevity.com, code Alex. You ever notice how we all just agreed to microwave our brains and called it convenience? Like, yeah, sure, your phone can order sushi, track your X, ruin your attention span in under 30 seconds, but it's also basically a tiny radio tower pressed directly against your school.

Totally normal, right? Not. And these AirPods? Oh yeah, Bluetooth, beaming signals straightened your head like you're trying to contact aliens. Even when you're not using Bluetooth, they're just searching. What are they searching for? A better life, a signal, God. EMFs are real.

Your phone is like a dozen antennas in it. Not one, not two, a team. Now, I'm not saying go live in the woods and turn butter, but maybe, just maybe, we stop raw dogging wireless signals directly into our brain tissue. That's where tech wellness comes in with these EMF-free air tube headphones. This is all I use when I'm traveling. No radiation, shooting up a wire into your head. Sound travels through air tubes.

You still get your podcast or your work calls just without frying your nervous system like a ming nugget. Because here's the truth. Distance is your friend. So you want to put the phone over there, keep your brain over here. Revolutionary, I know. Use code Alex for 15% off at air tube headphones at tech wellness.com. That's code Alex for 15% off air tube headphones at tech wellness.com. I knew a grandma growing up who brought a priest over to bless her house because

Because she said a salamander was living in the walls and watching her. And the priest comes in does this whole thing, holy water, incense, the works. And at one point he just goes, ma'am, I don't think it's a demon. I think you're malnourished. And honestly, he might have been right. He should start a health and wellness podcast. Because people used to eat real food, like nose to tail, nutrient dense, actual vitamins. And now we're all walking around eating protein bars made of glue, fillers, and preservatives,

and wondering why we still feel hungry and off. That's why I like Paleo Valley's grass-fed organ complex. This is a great supplement. I know you're like, organs, absolutely not. Look, you're not sauteing liver on a Tuesday night. That's not happening. But here's the thing. Organ meats are some of the most nutrient-dense foods on the planet.

This is how humans used to stay healthy. And now, Paleo Valley has just made it easy. This is a freeze-dried blend of grass-fed organs from pasture-raised cows, not just liver, which a lot of these organ-meat supplements are just liver. They're using multiple organs. So you're getting a full spectrum of nutrients and they gently freeze dry it to preserve everything instead of cooking it to death like other products. So you get all the benefits without having to taste it, cook it, or emotionally process what you're eating. You can keep pretending that your diet is fine or good enough or you can give your body what it's actually been missing since 1842.

Head to paleo valley.com. Use code Alex for 15% off. That's paleo valley.com. Code Alex for 15% off. I haven't talked to anybody about this. You know, do we need to be worried about the actual two? brush that we're using because it is a lot of plastic. It's just another thing to think about. There's just so many plastics in our environment. So if you can remove that from your daily regimen, like that's definitely a non-toxic upgrade. As a parent who is trying to kind of change your life and become more aware of ingredients and things, what were some of the brands that you had

always thought this is a cleaner brand that actually upon looking into the ingredients, you were like, I would not give my kids this. Can I say that? I mean, I don't know. I feel like you could. Like, it's just these ingredients are not up to my standard as a parent. Just a lot of the larger, you know, natural organic, clean brands that are in the big box stores, you know, that are having clean looking labels are just not as clean as people think they are. And I think another reason that people have, you know, kind of come at me and been so angry about the,

information we're putting out there about hydroxy appetite is they sometimes want affirmation of what they're using that they weren't wrong. So I think one of the issues in the wellness space is either fatigue where people are like, oh, great, like now one more thing. Like I thought I had it right. And then they just get emotionally overloaded. And then some of them say, I'm going back to fluoride. Or it's, I know this is good because this dentist told me. me and then when they hear our information, they go back to the dentist or they go back to that toothpaste brand for affirmation. My goal at zebra is not for people to buy our toothpaste. My goal at zebra is for people to understand that there's no doctor, there's no dentist

that is going to advocate for your health more than you. And so I want people to be sovereign over their own health and not be seeking the opinions and the, you know, people see a real or a clip or something on the internet and they think they're a wellness expert on that ingredient. And there is so much more to consider because so much of this research is completely fake. What exactly is hydroxy appetite doing in the mouth? Hydroxy appetite is a calcium phosphate and it's bonded together. If you look at the surface level, people are like, It's what teeth are made of.

Like, obviously, that has to be good. But the way it works when you're brushing with it, it can actually create like a calcium lattice barrier over the tooth, which prevents the mineral exchange from the saliva in opposition to how God designed the body. And so people have just been marketed to you for so long by the toothpaste companies to think they need some remineralizing ingredients. we don't. Our body is designed to remineralize. So if you're supporting the body with the diet and you're using a toothpaste that cleans the teeth and stops the biofilm from building up, you don't need that. And the only remineralizing ingredient approved in the United States is fluoride. So the company's marketing hydroxyapatite as a remineralizing ingredient actually are not being quite honest because that's not even considered an ingredient. that can remuneralize the teeth.

So if you don't have fluoride in toothpaste and you don't use hydroxyapatite in toothpaste, what are we using? So we use xylitol. And so do you, because you love zebra. Yep. We use xylitol as one of our number one ingredients. It's our hero ingredient because it helps stop the biofilm before it starts. And if you can help stop the biofilm and the bacteria, then you're stopping the formation

of plaque. And then that's the best thing for stopping cavities. Why is it a red flag if you're. toothpaste foams in your mouth? It probably has a chemical foaming agent in it, which, you know, obviously we don't want to be brushing with or ingesting. What does that do? You know, it can lead to GI upset. Some of these chemical foaming agents actually have been linked to cancer. So it's, it's definitely not a good thing if your toothpaste foams. When you're using a toothpaste that doesn't foam, it's just a short transition period. It's going to feel weird for a second. And then you get

used to it because it was for me. When I started using zebra at first, I was like, this is weird. Is it actually cleaning? And then like you realize you don't need that. Right. It feels totally right now. I don't need that. Yes. And so many of our customers say that their teeth actually feel so much cleaner throughout the day. Whereas like previous toothpaste, their teeth start to feel like fuzzy halfway through the day. But with our toothpaste, your teeth really feel clean for a lot longer. Yeah, that's true. I don't ever have that fuzzy teeth feeling anymore. I don't. I never even thought about that. Do you think that we're in a space right now where people are repeating the same mistake that we made with other, quote-unquote, safe ingredients and that we're not really going to know the damage for like 10 to 20 years? Yes, I do. I feel like it's just kind of a human experiment right now. And I feel like people are being so heavily marketed to with this hydroxy apatine. I feel like it's absolutely diabolical. Why does that matter to you as a mom? Just because, you know, especially when children are involved, I feel like when you're telling people that it's okay, to put nanoparticles in your children's body.

We don't know the long-term effects of that, and I think that's incredibly scary. And I also think if we look at the tooth in general and the oral care system in general, this is not an ingredient that is needed. It's just it's not needed. So to me, the risks way outweigh the reward. There's some backlash around xylitol as an ingredient in toothpaste.

What do the studies actually say? What are people getting wrong about xylitol? I'm going to tell a story for entertainment purposes only based on a study that was funded in 2023. So there was a study that came out about xylitol potentially causing heart problems and or stroke. And so that study may or may not have been co-funded by the NIH with a major medical institution in, let's say, America. And so I wonder if a study that was funded in a post-COVID vaccination world on an ingredient that over 80% of the population uses to find potentially a reason why so many people were experiencing heart issues post-vaccination would make sense.

So this particular study, again, this is for entertainment purposes only, was, also done by a researcher who may or may not have patents to heart drugs. So wouldn't it be funny if you did a study, but you also benefited from the study financially? Wow. And this particular researcher also had ties to the biggest toothpaste company in America that does not use xylitol. And also this particular researcher was the researcher that said, read me. caused heart attacks? This is juicy. That would be really crazy, wouldn't it? It would be. Would you think that study was actually valid if the participants were ingesting 30 grams of

xylitol within 15 minutes, which is a lot of xylitol? And then, you know, had their blood measured. And there were all those potential, let's say, ties and potential financial financial financial financial incentives to have the study look a certain way. Yeah, it would certainly be interesting. That is an entertaining story. Isn't it entertaining? I know. So, I mean, if that study existed, I wouldn't think that that was a logical study. I would go back to the fact that xylitol has been used for 65 years in America. Where are we getting xylitol from? Because I don't know. It's been used in toothpaste for a very long time. Oh, okay. Most dentist, up until now have considered xylitol as good as fluoride for maintaining oral health, like the gold standard

of cavity prevention. As a mom and small business owner, I know that you see these really viral posts that are made a lot of times about moms who own small health and wellness businesses, claiming that their products contain lead. What is your response to these viroids? What is your response to these viral posts that are claiming that a bunch of these different natural products contain lead? So first of all, you can have a lead-free toothpaste, but it's going to be full of chemicals. So every natural toothpaste or a natural product, protein powder, electrolytes, anything that's using anything natural, anything grown in the ground is going to have trace metals. Then you go back to what does this brand do to mitigate that?

Because any brand that cares is going to be trying to mitigate the trace metals in their formula and in their products. That's something obviously since my son had a brain tumor that was like top of mind to me. In fact, I came into formulation with zebra like I want a heavy metal free toothpaste. I mean, I had no idea that you can't have that and have a natural toothpaste. So you can have the chemical-laden, zero heavy metal, or you can have a natural toothpaste, and then you can work to mitigate the heavy metals. There are a lot of heavy metal testers out there who survive by creating clickbait and testing in a

completely uncontrolled random way. And so they can potentially test an entire tube of toothpaste and put results out there. that make it look like you're ingesting, you know, a whole bunch of lead when you're brushing your teeth once a day, but that's not accurate. Same thing with protein powders and, you know, all the other things that are in the natural space. It's really important to contact the brand and ask them. We've always been Prop 65 compliant. So we do so many things to mitigate the heavy metals in our products. And that's one of the reasons we source the way we do.

So to date, for our toothpaste and our deodorant, we don't source ingredients from China. And the reason is because typically the Chinese ingredients can, you know, contain higher levels of heavy metals or that region is linked to ingredient fraud, where they kind of fluff up an ingredient by putting in something else to maximize their profit margin. That's just something that's been very close to my heart from the very beginning. And I think we're the only toothpaste brand that's doing that right now, just being that strict with our sourcing and testing for heavy metals the way that we are. I will say there is some very inaccurate wild information out there about zebra and the heavy metals testing that that's just not accurate. Can you explain the difference between naturally occurring lead in products and, something that's actually unsafe? You know, I think a lot of the heavy metal testers started from a good place because there is, you know, lead that is in our products that comes from manufacturing.

And so that type of lead, you know, can be really high and really detrimental. The lead that's in our, you know, potatoes, broccoli toothpaste, all the things that are grown in the ground is very many. and it's just a part of eating natural. So the alternative is to eat lab grown meat and, you know, things that are fake and then you'll have a lead-free existence. But one thing that many people don't realize they are, and I love that you did the episode on the clothing, they're unknowingly absorbing lead into their body with the clothing, you know, that's manufactured in, you know, places like China when they're using so many chemicals and plastics. And so when you're wearing that on your body all day long,

that's a huge source of lead exposure. I also just want to say that the women who go viral online being obsessed with testing lead in things were the first people during the pandemic to brag about giving their kids every single vaccine and booster shots. It's just interesting to me that the brands that they, they coincidentally find lots of lead in happen to be conservative owned openly, but I digress. They're never scared of the lead and all the vaccines that they're shilling.

Absolutely not. And if you think about it, it's actually an amazing business model to just say that no level of lead is safe because then you can actually demonize every natural product on the market. All the products that are actually trying to do better to work with your body system, source natural ingredients, they're all going to have that bit of trace metals. But if you say no level of lead is safe and you say it loud enough and you say it over and over again, then you fearmonger people into believing what you're saying. And that's the frustrating part is that zebra is a quiet brand. You will not see my face on our Instagram every second, you know, saying things over and over again. We exist to put information out there. and we believe the people who are awake enough to receive that and really absorb what we're

trying to say and what we're trying to do at Cibro will find us. But it's just been amazing to see so many of these heavy metal testers and the brands just coming out and they just say things over and over again. It's like, I guess if you say something loud enough and repeated enough, people just believe it now. So when it comes to an actual all-natural non-toxic brand, is lead-free, even a realistic standard, or is that a marketing gimmick? In order to be lead-free, you'd have to be fully synthetic. You'd have to have no ingredients that are grown in the ground. Salt was never the problem.

Fake salt was. For years, we were all told to fear salt. But when I started learning more about health, I realized that the issue isn't real mineral-rich salt. It's the ultra-processed foods that most people are getting it from. And now, well, I'm that person who carries a little salt around in her, purse. I'm not kidding. This little Redmond real salt pocket shaker comes with me everywhere to restaurants, airports, road trips. My fiance makes fun of me because I'll pull it out at dinner and start

salting my food before I even take a bite. But like, he's really not complaining. He thinks it's cute because he's just as health conscious as I am. And he also will not touch that bleached nasty salt at a restaurant. What I love about Redmond is that it's real ancient, unrefined sea salt mined from an ancient seabed in Utah. There's no additives. There's no anti-caking agents. and it still contains over 65 naturally occurring trace minerals. You want to totally get your health on the next level. Sprinkle a little Redmond's real salt in your water in the morning with some lemon juice. That's going to be chronic.

Those little pink and red flex that you see, those are the minerals. I've actually visited the Redmond salt by myself. Seeing exactly where it comes from made me trust the product even more. I love the Redmond family. The people over there are incredible. They've got an entire farm with grass-fed cows and pasture-raised chickens. and like, these people are doing it right, okay? And lately, I've also been obsessed with their steak seasoning.

It's made with real salt plus organic herbs and spices and grass-fed butter powder. It makes steak incredible, but you can also use it on vegetables, potatoes, basically anything that needs a little extra flavor. Right now, Redmond's is put together an exclusive bundle with all my favorite things. You'll get the pocket shaker, the 10-ounce home salt shaker, and their steak seasoning, and you can get 15% off at redmond. with code Alex. That's Redmond. Dot life code Alex for 15% off.

I need to talk about something that has turned me into a completely unstable person, and that is the blue tansy lotion from primally pure. I smelled this lotion for the first time and immediately had the thought, I could ruin my life over this. You know when dogs smell a rotissory chicken and they lose all sense of dignity, that's me with this lotion? It smells like this deep herbal, blue tansy and lavender blend that's calming, but also kind of mysterious.

Like if a spa existed in a forest where monks go to a motion, recover? And the formula is actually insane because it's made with grass-fed beef tallow, shea butter, and nourishing botanical oils. So it actually supports your skin barrier instead of coating you in weird chemicals, which is why I now apply it with the intensity of someone guarding national secrets. Also, if you're about to need sunscreen for the year, their lavender-scented sunscreen at Primely Pure is the best I have ever used. It is 100% non-toxic. Primely Pure is a female founded company that makes skincare intentional in small batches using clean ingredients that really do work. their natural deodorant. It somehow works in real life heat without aluminum or synthetic fragrance.

If you're looking for gifts that don't feel like you're panic buying something at the mall, their skincare bundles are incredible. It's toxin-free, beautiful, actually useful. Use code Alex Clark to get 15% off your primarily pure purchase at primally pure.com. That's primally pure.com. Use code Alex Clark at checkout for 15% off. Let's talk about toothpaste with kids. There's so many kids who have this aversion to mint or peppermint. You know, they want these wacky, flavors, that kind of stuff. They want sparkles and red and weird fruit punch toothpaste, and I don't even know what's out there. So what do parents need to know about the flavored toothpaste for kids? You know, it's really important, obviously, that your kids want to brush their

teeth. And so we understand that. But a lot of those flavors are, you know, chemically derived or some of the toothpaste have the petroleum dyes in them to make them more, you know, palatable are exciting to children. So we developed our birthday cake toothpaste and a lot of people are a little taken aback because it's like a light brown color. And it's light brown and it's $24 right now. The price still may go up depending on if our ingredients go up. But people are like, why is the birthday cake so much more expensive than the other toothpaste? And it's because we're using real natural vanilla plantafolia. And so that's one of the rarest ingredients in the world. And it's actually only able to be pollinated one day a year, hand pollinated.

What? Yeah. So it's a super. What is this? It's like Wizard of Oz toothpaste. It's a super rare. It's actually more expensive by weight than silver. So that's what we're using in the kids' toothpaste.

And then we're also using an organic natural flavor on top of that because when we did only the vanilla planafolia, the kids were like, no. So we added in an organic vanilla natural flavor on top of that. But we're not coloring our toothpaste. We're not using any, you know, unnatural flavors or colors. What I'm hearing is the birthday cake toothpaste at Zebra is an exorbitant amount of money. But it is for a specific customer that is like, I want this type of flavor toothpaste for my kid. And I don't care what it costs.

I'm going to pay it because I want this, you know, these really, really special clean ingredients. You still have an option of the coconut flavor, regular toothpaste, or mint. You do, but I will say our coconut and our mint are actually underpriced. So we will be having a price increase and we're hoping that we can grandfather in our subscribers at their current price, at least for the next year. But I did not price our toothpaste appropriately. I wanted to make it as accessible as I possibly could. and I didn't consider all the costs to the business when I was pricing our products because, again, I'm a mom.

I didn't have the background to appropriately price our products. So our mint and our coconut are underpriced. Our birthday cake is exactly where it should be. So what is your response to somebody who says, like, this is a prime example of, like, wellness is not attainable, like, what average family can afford this type of a thing? I know. And it's upsetting. So it's like the choices are this or that. it's I create the best toothpaste and it costs this or we compromise on ingredients and it costs

this and so this already exists and so like there you know you can't you can't have both unfortunately wellness is just really expensive in America it just is what it is the good ingredients cost more I don't like that I I understand I haven't always been a mom that could even afford this toothpaste When my daughter was a baby, I lived in Section 8 housing. So I totally get that. I can't imagine myself being angry about that. It would just be something that I would hope to, you know, afford when I could. And in the meantime, you do the best with what you have.

I think that's an interesting way to put it. There's options for everything. If you want less expensive toothpaste, you know, it's not going to have a high quality of ingredients. you know, the higher quality of ingredients than anything, I mean, it's going to cost a little bit more. And so, you know, if you're willing to pay that great, if not, that's fine. There's other options. I really like what you guys are doing, too, just because you guys are coming into this space as a wellness brand, too, is open about your faith as a Christian company. You're openly conservative about your politics. I mean, there's a lot of things that you are doing that is disruptive, I think, in a positive way. And it always is going to take one brand that comes out with something and then can show the market demand for it to really ignite change across the board in a certain category of products, right?

Like you're seeing that with chips like Masa chips, which are starting out at a really, really high price point. Now this month, you know, it's being announced that they're going into Whole Foods and all these other big box stores. It's taken a couple years for them to prove like, okay, we're operating at this high price point, but look how many people are willing to pay it. Yes. And now we can expand. We actually turn down a big box retailer because we don't have the margin. So that's another, you know, just important factor here. Like we, although we are priced more, we do not even have the margin that other brands have to be in a big box store because of the way that we're sourcing. And so that is just another layer to the fact that we are actually underpriced for the mint and the coconut right now. But as far as being a Christian, brand. I saw something I loved the other day and it said, the Christian shoemaker does not honor and glorify the father by putting little crosses on his shoes. He glorifies the father by making really good shoes. And so that's how I feel about zebra. Like we don't compromise on ingredients because we don't want people to compromise on their health. And so this brand comes from a place of just loving

God's people. And if that happens to cost more, unfortunately, it just costs more. Making the really good toothpaste is more expensive, but we're not going to compromise on people's health, and we're not going to compromise on serving God's people. What is your story about Charlie Kirk and non-toxic toothpaste? Oh my gosh. This is so funny. Okay, so back Am Fest, back in time, 24. You were attending your dad's funeral, so we missed you very much. We were setting up next to your booth. It was late at night. There was no one in the, what's it called? The hall. So we all of a sudden heard voices. And my husband said, wait, I think that's Charlie Kirk. And I was like, oh my goodness. And so like a swarm of people came in.

Like it was the security team and, you know. His whole entourage. The entourage. That's exactly what it was. And it was just like I feel like we saw this moment that a lot of people don't get to see of his people interacting with him without the cameras, without the crowds. And so with all the things that have been going on, you know, people have asked me like, are you still going to stay aligned with a turning point? like after all these things and I I say like well of course like A like I launched my company with Turning Point like they've been my partner since the very beginning so like yes number two like

every single person I've ever met at Turning Point has been exceptional to me like exceptional I'm so happy to hear that and gracious to our company and to my team members and to me and so I every time I get to be in the presence of Turning Point and all the employees, like, I just love it. Like, I love you guys. And so I wanted to share that because I got to see this moment of Charlie's team just orbiting around him, like he was the North Star. And they just appeared to love him so much. And he came over to our booth and I was just like, oh my goodness, hi. And he, he, picked up the toothpaste tablets. And you know, you had given me trouble on the sunflower oil in there before, too. And so I told him the same thing that I told you. Wait, so Charlie picked up the

toothpaste tablets, saw sunflower oil and was like, there's seed oils in this. He said that? Yes. So I was like, Charlie, listen, there's one drop of sunflower oil in here. It's organic. It's processed the right way. It's raw. It's not cooked. It's actually. It's actually. actually very beneficial, and this was an intentional ingredient choice because the alternative is an ingredient that causes immune system issues. So I chose this on purpose. Like it's not a seed oil. And he's like, no, no, no, you got to take that out of there. And then I'm pretty sure it was Justin because there was a bunch of people. He's like, she's right, Charlie. And I was like, oh my goodness, because I was like, who am I to argue with Charlie Kirk? You know, I'm sitting there like,

He's doing it prove me wrong about your toothpaste. Exactly. And I was like, I know my stuff. But on the other hand, like, who actually is going to do that? Like, go back and forth with him. So I was like so thankful. I'm pretty sure it was Justin. He said that. I was like, okay, thank you. And then he looked at him and he goes, you still have to take it out. And I was like, okay. So he bought everything at the booth. Oh, really? Yes. Yes. He bought everything. Did you tell him like, oh, this is the toothpaste Alex uses. Like, did you say anything like that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, I think he knew that. Oh, that's so fun. Yeah. So he bought everything. My daughter was so excited to ring up Charlie Kirk. He was actually our first customer at Amphus 2024. And I changed the ingredients for him. I told him I was going to do it right there. And it took a year. And so the new toothpaste tablets don't have the sunflower oil. We had to adjust the machinery. We had to adjust.

We had adjust the tablet size. We had to change the formula. And I was so excited to tell him. And they were done the week after he was murdered. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that is crazy. He would have been excited about that.

I bet he would have been like proud of you. You'd been like, see, Jen? I told you you could do it. Like, he would totally have said something like that. Exactly. Oh, I love it. So in a secret kind of, if you know, you know way, the new toothpaste tablets at Zebra are like in on a Charlie's. They're Charlie's tablets.

They're Charlie's tablets. Yeah. Charlie's idea. Yeah. Okay. So what are toothpaste tablets? Like how do you even use those? So it's just a toothpaste in a different form. There's no water in it. So no preservatives are necessary. So super easy for travel. You just put it in your mouth. You chew it up. It becomes like a toothpaste in your mouth and you just brush as normal. Why do that instead of regular toothpaste? It's just a different experience. You know, people. Kids really like it. Kids really love it. It's easy to travel with. It. It can get really hot, can get really cold. A lot of moms love them because they're pre-portioned, so you don't have that toothpaste being squeezed all over the bathroom countertop. You can just hand, you know, the kiddos. Of course, they have to be old enough to have molars and chew them, but you can just hand it

to them and not have to worry about them making a big mess. What's unique about Zebra's natural deodorant compared to other natural deodorants out there? So a lot of natural deodorants are still using things like fragrance. Some of them are using ozircrate, which is a petroleum derived ingredient. A lot of people think they're using a natural deodorant when they're using like that saltstone. But that's an actual aluminum derivative. Ooh, is it really?

Yeah. It's just the ingredient for that salt stone is potassium alum. I loved that deodorant years ago. I did too. I used that for 12 years. Yeah, I loved that stuff. And then, you know, another one that everybody uses that they think. is clean and I think it's the branding. That's what it is. It's literally just a packaging

sciop is native. Yeah. So native was one that we were using when I developed Cobra. Okay. So what's wrong with native deodorant? So native started out, I think, really clean, but then they transitioned to using fragrance and fragrance can be one of 4,000 chemicals. And so that can affect, you know, our hormones, fertility. And that's just not something we want to be using every day. That just contributes to toxic load. So toothpaste and deodorant were the products that we just thought were really important to make sure you're using the cleanest ones possible because people are experiencing all these issues and they don't know why, especially like the fertility rate in America is so low and people are like, what am I doing wrong? Well,

it's your daily exposures to these things. Did you watch that new plastic documentary on Netflix? Not yet, but I'm going to. Dude, it is so good. You're going to love that documentary. It is excellent, excellent. But what was crazy about this new documentary on Netflix on plastics. It's called the plastic detox is they had multiple couples who are struggling with infertility. And they take these couples and they send an expert in and she helps them get rid of almost all of the plastic and BPAs and stuff in their life, in fragrance, synthetic fragrance. So they're going through like their kitchen sponges to their clothing. to their body care products, toothpaste, like literally everything, ultra-processed food, take out containers, they're getting rid of the plastic. And so they're following them over the course of a period of time to see if eliminating the synthetic fragrance, the plastic, the BPAs, the forever chemicals in their life, lowering that load if they're able to get pregnant.

And I don't want to spoil it. I was expecting one thing in this documentary, the ending, something completely different happened. It was shocking stuff. And so if this documentary doesn't convince everybody to ditch all of the synthetic fragrance in their life and the Forever chemicals and products with BPA and plastic, I literally do not know what else will. Yes. But it was so well done. It was so well done.

My friend Jason Karp is an executive producer. He helped create the brand Hugh Chocolate. Yeah. So he knows all about like the clean industry of food and products and everything. But anyway, you have to watch it. But it totally reminds me of you. Yeah. I will. And I think one thing people don't realize as far as the plastics is the dental floss that they're using every day. Most of it's made of plastic.

Especially the expanding and the scrubby floss. It doesn't say plastic on the container, but when it's made of polyester or it's made from, you know, micro fibers, that's actually plastic. And you're putting microplastics into your gum line every day. And we know the gum line and the oral mucosa is permeable. So that that microplastic exposure through the oral environment. is a lot when you're flossing every day. And polyester is basically birth control. Yes. I mean, they're passing out polyester underwear in African tribes to use his birth control. Exactly. So people aren't realizing like they're using that in their floss.

And then here's the crazy thing. Hydroxyapatite nanoparticles can actually bind to microplastics inside the body. So then you've got the microplastics in the body and the hydroxy-opatite nanoparticles. That creates a complex particle. inside the body. And this is what people don't want to talk about is the hydroxy-apotite toothpaste.

It may not be as clean or as foolproof as you think. Right, because nanoparticles can bind to microplastics inside the body. And so then you've got this very complex particle floating around. And, you know, we don't know the long-term implications of that, but that can't be good for the human body. It can't be good for the brain. It can't be good for fertility. A lot of the underwear brands we grew up buying at the mall, the brands everyone knows, are made with synthetic fabrics, chemical treatments, and dyes that sit against some of the most sensitive parts of our bodies all day long. Think about that.

We're paying attention to what we eat, right? We're filtering our water and we're reading the labels on our skin care. But many people are still wearing petroleum-based synthetic fabrics and chemically treated underwear for 12, 14, sometimes 16 hours a day, right? I mean, that was a huge wake-up call for me. Some people wear the same underwear all week. Not me, but maybe an ex-boyfriend I used to have, potentially. Which is why I was excited to discover Q for Quinn.

They make Gots certified organic cotton basics for women, men, and kids, including underwear, bras, socks, active wear, and even organic cotton underwear for children. What I love is that they're obsessed with reducing unnecessary chemical exposure. They offer undied organic cotton options in plant-died styles that avoid many of the synthetic dyes commonly used throughout the apparel industry. And unlike a lot of clean brands, these pieces are genuinely comfortable, soft, and designed to be worn every day. because if we're going to be intentional about what goes into our bodies, it makes sense to be intentional about what stays against her bodies, too. Use code Alex for 15% off, your non-toxic basics at Q4Quinn.com.

That's Q4Q4CWKIN.com. Code Alex for 15% off. Okay, can we talk about cortisol for a second? Because I swear cortisol is becoming the new gluten. Every problem on the internet right now is apparently cortisol face, cortisol belly, cortisol spikes, cortisol crashes. You're tired all day, you're wired at night, staring at the ceiling at 3 a.m. wondering, well, what's happening to me? To be fair, chronic stress is a real thing, especially if you're a woman carrying 47 mental tabs open at all times, right? But here's where the conversation gets a little weird. A lot of the products being marketed for cortisol either knock you out or they're packed with trendy ingredients that sound impressive but don't actually have much research behind them.

That's why I've been taking Adaptacomom from Utti naturals. Adaptacom combines three adaptogenic herbs that have actually been studied, Ashawaganda, holy basil, and, passion flour. And the aschaganda that they use called Withalitin is a clinically researched extract, not just some generic bulk powder. What I like is that it doesn't make me feel sleepy or foggy. It just helps take the edge off, the 3 p.m. overwhelm. overwhelmed, the racing mind at bedtime. That background stress that you don't even notice until it quiets down. If you're looking for real stress support, not another sleep gummy or another wellness trend, this is a great place to start. Use code Alex to save on Adaptacom at Utsy.com.

Utsy.com. Adaptacom is what it's called. That's code Alex to save at Utsi.com. Just search for Adaptacom. The wellness space is supposed to be about health. I think, you know, what people don't realize is it can get pretty brutal online. Have you been surprised by how aggressive it is? Yes.

I'm very surprised because I just entered into this space. thinking if we were a brand that was just doing better and sourcing well, then that would be well received. But the reception has been very difficult from a lot of very loud people online. We had someone say the other day a comment on a thread for another hydroxy appetite dentistone toothpaste brand. He just debunked everything Zebra says. And I just thought that was so funny because nothing zebra says is untrue. We're just speaking truth. And so there's no debunking of what we say. You can disagree. You can disagree. Or just reject it. But what we say is there's a lot of fake studies out there. There's a lot of fake research. Hydroxyapatite is questionable.

Hydroxy appetite can work against the body, against the oral care system. It can work against remineralization. And we just want to work with ingredients that honor God and honor God's design. So I don't know what in that messaging can be debunked. But again, it's like if you say things loud enough and over and over again, people just want to be affirmed in their decisions. They don't necessarily want to learn the new information. So it's been very interesting. Reminds me of other loud things that people say on the internet over and over. again, it must be true. They're really animated when they say it. They're clapping their hands and they're snapping and they're dancing. And so it has to be real. That's how the internet works, Jen. Right. Exactly. If you just say something over and over and over again, it has to be true.

What has your experience been like building this brand alongside Turning Point USA and the culture apothecary audience? It's been amazing. I, you know, if you remember, like at the very beginning, we were on that phone call and I was like, we don't have a lot of money. Like, we're in baby brand and like we had to make a decision on where we were going to put our advertising dollars. And so, you know, I'm just forever grateful that we did align with you and your show and Turning Point because it's been just a really blessing to grow alongside you. The feeling's mutual. And, you know, and I, And I think that that's, I mean, just a little behind, you know, inside baseball behind the scenes.

I am the final say on what brands advertise on the show. I get pitched a lot every week. We've got an advertising meeting, a standing advertising meeting every week where they bring to me. Here's all the people that are wanting to advertise. And I would say 98%. I say no. You know, this ingredient doesn't align. And by the way, it's stuff that I hear on every single other wellness.

podcast being advertised. Like different supplements, different things. I'm like, that doesn't cut it. Like that, and it reminds me of kind of like what you've done building your brand. Obviously, I lose money. Yes. And I'm saying I is in the show. The show loses money when I'm not just taking any advertiser that wants to advertise. I'm picky. But the integrity matters more to me because I know long term when I do have a brand on this show like Zebra. And I'm talking about how I believe in this. I've used it for years at this point. I trust the ingredients. I trust the founder.

Then the people that know that I have exercised integrity are like, okay, I can trust Alex when she says, hey, this might be a little bit more of a price point, but it's worth it. These ingredients are worth it. They're really, really walking the walk when it comes to health and wellness. I just think that over time, that matters more to people than the quick buck. I'm just advertising anything. I hope so. I mean, there are influencers out there and shows out there.

that will, you know, advertise a half-eaten sandwich at this point. That's true. It's true. And it's like anything for a dollar. And it's just like watching this like play out. I'm like, wow, this person is really like saying one thing and doing another with who they're aligning themselves with. So that's been really interesting. And then I just remember when the kind of untrue heavy metals report.

first came out. Like, I was, like, shocked, but, like, my first email and my first call was to your team. And I was like, I just need to give you our heavy metals report. And they were like, I think it was Drew at that time. He was like, we are a zero percent worried. Thank you. I will get this to Alex. I'm like, she's got it. Also, and again, I'm like, these idiots are coming after Jen or a brand like zebra. while also promoting the booster shot. Miss me with that. Miss me with that.

Like, there's you, they do not have consistency or integrity to be doing that. You know what I mean? I know. There's just nothing trustworthy there for me. I'm never worried about those stupid lead things. No, it was so funny because I was like, okay, Drew, but like, can you make sure Alex needs to report? He's like, yes, Jen, I'll make sure she's his report.

But like, seriously, no one here is worried about Zira. And I was like, okay, good. because and then, you know, to think that my biggest concern was like, I know that Alex puts her name behind Zebra. And so I need to make sure that she has this information because I would never want her to think there were anything other than what we say we are. And so it's like for these people, you know, on Facebook groups who trust you but also trust these heavy metal testers, it's like, where is the disconnect? Like you, they're very different ideologies. I don't trust them. I'm going to tell you right now. They have none of my endorsement. People are like, you should do a lead episode. I'm like, no, absolutely not. That is the least of my worries when it comes to eating natural real food. That's my priority. It's keeping things non-toxic, natural, real. There's going to be, like we were talking about, a certain amount of lead that comes with that. And I'm okay with that. Now, some people may not, that's fine. That's your conviction, but it's not mine. Yes. And then go ahead and find your synthetic alternative.

because that's what you're going to have. And so like for ingredients or for companies like just ingredients, you know, who is also attacked, who's sourcing beautiful ingredients in her, you know, drinks and her protein powders and all the things, you know, it's like all the brands that seem to be doing it right are the ones getting attacked. Yeah. It's funny how it always swings one way, like I was saying. If you had to reduce your entire philosophy on health to one principle, what would it be? Oh, this is so good. So my entire philosophy is that faith and health, they have to coexist. So you can't have one without the other. And so health should be built on faith. And people ask us all the time, why do you have to bring God into it? Because God is our designer.

So why would you bring fake research into it? Why would you bring science into it? Science is only to explain God's creation and our systems, and science is done by man. So the ultimate scientific study is the Bible. It's God. It's God's God's word. And so if you are trying to be more healthy, your blueprint, you know, should be God's design. And there's no biohacking, God's design. So every ingredient that's designed to go around or shortcut or cheat the system, like in our opinion, apatite or, you know, I'll get really spicy here. I'm not a fan of injectable peptides. Oh, you're not? Wait, why don't you like injectable peptides? Because again, I think anything that is trying to cheat God's design is going to have a long-term implication. And so we just don't know

what those are. And so for me, I'm just more conservative in wellness. It's just the slug. and steady approach. It's the known entities. It's the most natural you can be is better. You know, I think peptides seem really amazing and I hope there is amazing as people think, but I think there's not the long-term data out there to prove that that's not going to cause detrimental effects in the future. What are some new non-toxic products that Zebra's working on? So we are launching our new collab with Petit Paloma. So this boot company that's owned by my friend, we kind of collabbed on a sparkly type lip gloss. And we actually used a synthetic ingredient in that lip gloss, which I have to explain. And the reason we did that is because it's actually a mineral that

was rendered in a lab. And the reason we use that particular one is because the lab rendering caused it to be more pure and lower in heavy metals. So these are the decisions that we make. So sometimes, we can use an ingredient that's naturally derived but still has to be called synthetic on the ingredient list. We're doing that because we're able to provide like a more pure form. And since people kind of ingest lip gloss throughout the day, it was really important to us to make sure we still provided that shimmer, but also did it in a way that would be the lowest exposure to trace metals as possible. Yeah. And the lip gloss is great. It's so good. What other, new non-toxic products are you working on?

So we do have mouthwash coming and I know. You do? We do. Because there's actually a really good way to make mouthwash. If you're not using alcohol in the mouthwash and stripping the microbiome, we're actually using MCT oil, which will kind of help pull the bacteria out. And then, of course, our hero ingredients, aletol and, yeah, like a small microdose of essential oils. So it's really, really good.

Ooh, that's exciting. So that'll be coming late summer, we hope. We had originally back on our last episode talked about doing some other products like coffee and laundry detergent. Our laundry detergent never launched because it was $80. So, you know, again, like there's much better alternatives out there than what we were making because our laundry detergent was just going to be unattainable. And so that's not my goal either is to make things unattainable. I want people to be able to afford them. We're also working on skincare. So we have a moisturizer and a serum and an oil and a few other skincare products to go along with the puffy to complete your skincare routine. Oh, fun.

Okay. So when can we expect that? So those, I believe, should be late summer, early fall. Okay. So exciting. And a few more kids flavors. Yeah. Ooh.

Yes. If somebody was going to pick two zebra products to try, they've never tried zebra. out what two products should they try? I would say definitely are toothpaste or tablets, one of those, and the floss. That's exactly what I was going to say. Those are my two favorite things. I mean, I use the deodorant every day as well. That's the deodorant I use.

There's a lot of natural deodorants that all use baking soda, and I do get burns. So I get super irritated with baking soda. You have options without, which I really like. So Zebra has worked so well for me. but there is nothing that compares to the mint zebra toothpaste. I mean, I'm always calling you like, can I have some more? Like, it is the greatest. So I have got everyone in my life on this toothpaste.

My guest room is stocked with it. So if I have guesting over that need toothpaste, then, you know, they have that option. And then I get to introduce them to stuff. It's really fun when you stay at my house because if you're a guest. You have all the good products. Yeah. It's like being an air one. Yep.

I'm like, here's everything you need. All the skincare you could possibly want. You want to try some new body wash. you want to try this new toothpaste, your floss. And I'm like, in anything you try, I can take home. You know, it's like a whole little. Oh, my gosh. I bet that's so fun. Yeah.

So I, you know, I love, you know, being a good hostess. That's like a little art form that I think is super fun. So I'm learning, learning to do that. And your products definitely help me do that. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be? It's still Jesus. It was Jesus the first time and it's still Jesus. I think now more than ever, you know,

we just need to align our lives with Jesus. There's so many, so much negativity online. And decorum and kindness online is at an all-time low. And it's just amazing to me the way others talk to people on the internet. And I think it hurts the heart of God. And I think people would not talk to human beings in real life like that. So I think if people could just think about that in their daily lives and think about living lives that honor God and do that by serving your family and loving your family and loving others well, I think that's the answer. Where can people buy Zebra and what is the discount code?

So the discount code is Alex and we're available online at yayzebra.com. My favorite web domain of all time. Yay, Ziprah.com. Code Alex. Thank you, Jen, for coming on Cultureopathy. Thank you for all of your support and just being ride or die with us from the very beginning of Culture Pothcary launching. And somebody recommended, they were like, oh, Alex, you probably love this toothpaste. And I was like, wait, no, I really love this toothpaste. Like, I've got to talk to this woman.

And so I'm just so thankful that we've met and your friendship and everything, you know, through just the crazy last wild six months. especially, but even just before that, just, you know, launching a podcast and you launching a brand. And so we're so happy to have you. I love you guys. Thank you. We love you too. Yeah. Thank you. I think the moral of the story here is if you're not reading labels, someone else is writing your health story for you. Small, consistent choices shape long-term health. The basics,

done right. Change everything. Zebra has been my go-toothoothoasease brand for years now. And I know those of you who have tried it, have loved it too. Use code Alex at yayzebra.com. Leave us a five-star of you. Help my team know that they are so appreciated and that you love this show. New episodes come out every Monday and Thursday at 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern to anywhere you get your podcast. This content is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be taken as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding any questions or decisions related to your health or medical care. I'm Alex Clark, and this is Culture Apothecary.