Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “Who’s Actually The Problem: You Or Your Partner?” - With Dr. Taylor Burrowes, PHD

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

Get ready for Hot Girl Winter. Is the age-old break-up line “It’s not you, it’s me” actually true? Alex interviews retired therapist and relationship expert, Dr. Taylor Burrowes, on good and bad types of chemistry, how to know if you are dating a narcissist, if you should text him first, the difference between masculine and feminine vulnerability, living together before marriage, and more. Follow Dr. Taylor Burrowes on Instagram @taylorburrowes Register Now for AmericaFest, Turning ...

The biggest four-day gathering of patriotic families across the country. America Fest is December 16th through 19th in Phoenix, Arizona. Over 10,000 conservatives of all ages, yes, even kids. Roseanne Barr, Tucker Carlson, Dennis Prager, Rob Schneider, Glenn Beck, Candace Owens, Yomi Park, and tons more will be speaking. Find out more and get a discount on your general admission tickets at AMFest.com with code real Alex Clark. That's AMFest.com with code real Alex Clark.

Alex Clark. It's you. Hi, you're the problem. It's you. Or is it? How do you know if you're the one with the issues versus your partner in your relationship? How do you stop self-sabotaging? What is the number one thing that women do that turns their man off? And what is the best way to deal with a narcissist? Also, guys, what are you doing wrong when texting women? And what are you doing that aggravates women and turns us off before the first day even. If you're wanting to break up, should you wait till after the holidays or should you do it now? I have so many questions just like these today for my guest who is a retired therapist and relationship expert known as the vetting specialist. She specialized in trauma recovery, marital conflict resolution, and executive wellness training

in her practice. She has her PhD in marriage, couples, and family counseling, but retired her two mental health licenses in 2019 to pursue her own business in online consulting, coaching, and matchmaking. Watch this interview on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel and do me a favor before we get started. Pause right now. Leave a five-star review. It is the easiest way to support this free podcast. Please welcome Dr. Taylor Burroughs to the spillover. Most important question first. Is it better to break up with them before or after the holidays? Well, I like to tell people to not get too involved before the holidays because there's that cuffing season energy, right? So try to slow down and pace yourselves, get through the holidays single before you press

the accelerator, like the gas pedal in a relationship when you're dating. So what happens if you've been dating for a while and you know like, okay, I'm ready to end it, but we're right now right before Christmas? Like, do you just get through Christmas and then wait till after or you think it's better just get it over with. It depends on if like how far long are you because if you have kids, I usually say wait until after the holidays. But if you don't have kids and you don't have any major attachments or obligations together, then it's probably better to rip that band-aid off before the holidays. But try not to wait to the very last minute. If you know, you might know like a couple weeks before like now's a good time, you know, before Christmas really kicks in.

That's a really good point. I always wonder this. People gripe a lot. lot, including myself, about the state of the dating market today. But my question is, do you think that it really is worse than it's ever been? Or does every generation say, oh, everybody before me had it so much easier? I think there's been hard things in the dating world at all different types of, like, eras, right? Like when you were in the 1800s, it was probably really hard to date, right? Like, really hard to pick a suitor and know how to get to know them because it was so, formal and pressured. So yes, I do think there's been difficult things at all stages, but now, right now, gosh, I think that is very toxic, not just because of being single currently,

but because people's mental health has deteriorated a lot, I think people have become more of a victim lately, that they are not controlling their emotions or not regulating their emotions, which is a huge problem, and they're feeling more righteous in their victimhood. You know, they expect special treatment. And so whatever their problems are, they're kind of waving them proudly like a flag instead of taking accountability for their problems and trying to fix them. So that, to me, presents more of an issue in the dating market. How are we there, though, because everybody I know is like obsessed with their therapist.

Everyone is going to therapy and yet we're the most mentally ill, it seems, unstable we've ever been. But what would happen if all their problems got resolved, they wouldn't be going to therapy anymore. It's just become a dependency. That's the thing. I have always wondered that. I mean, you are a former therapist. What's the deal? I mean, are some of these therapists purposely not fixing problems so that you'll keep coming back? I'd like to believe that that's not true. Of course, there are probably some that are a little bit, you know, feeding that cycle. But I think a lot the therapists were victims themselves. I definitely had trauma in my background, but I feel like I resolved that, but I think some people still have a lot of that victimhood that is sort of

playing out in the therapist role. And they kind of teach their clients how to leverage their own victim status and seek sympathy from other people as well and expect that special treatment. So I really do encourage therapists to go through the process of therapy themselves because if they haven't resolved those traumas, if they haven't healed those wounds, they could be doing more damage, well intended, but damage to their clients and not realize it. I've never even thought about that concept that there are therapists that maybe have never even done therapy. Yeah, I asked this question on Twitter. I did a poll for anyone who's in the field. what was their experience of therapy or supervision? And there was a wide variety of experiences. So some people had years of therapy. Some people only had what we call supervision, which is when you are studying to be a therapist. You have to go to kind of like your boss who supervises your clinical work

and you share with them your experiences clinically with the clients, but also personally, like what comes up for you as a person. So some people, every program, is different. So you never really know if that person that you're seeing went through it themselves, which I think is a reasonable question to ask. I think that is a good question to ask, especially, I mean, people talk about like therapist shopping. How do you find the right one for you? So you think that should be one of your questions that you ask, like, have you ever done therapy? Yeah. Okay. I think you should be asking your therapist questions, like not personal inappropriate questions, but you should be able to vet them, basically, and find out if what is their response to just being

parent, you know, because you want to know what are their values. And the therapists that are very defensive about answering those questions because it's just not professional. Like, I don't bring myself into the therapy room. My values are not important. I think that level of, I call it, compartmentalization of personal and professional is unhealthy. And it's usually the people who they don't actually do as much good for their clients in the therapy room because you don't have any real values-driven work, right? Like when you can align on values, I think it's a lot easier. It's much more productive for the client when they feel that they can relate to you on some level. Yeah, you brought up vetting and you're known as the vetting specialist. What is that?

So vetting is the process of getting to know someone objectively. So not just like how do you feel about them. But you want to know one, you're vetting yourself first and foremost. That's the first step of vetting. And then you're vetting the other person. Like, their internal characteristics, their psychology, their patterns of behavior and stuff like that. But then the third level is you're vetting the dynamic between you. Because you could have two healthy, fabulous people, but the combination of the two of you together doesn't quite gel. Well, and that's one of those things where people say just push through it.

Like if it's a really bad first day, you know, go on a couple more. How long if it's something isn't feeling right that you can't quite push it. put your finger on, how long should you push through that or ignore it? Oh, I don't think you should ignore it ever. Okay. It's important to address those things with yourself, but also with the other person. If you don't feel curious, drawn to them, like you don't really want to see them again, that curiosity is not there.

Then you shouldn't feel obligated to just because they check off the boxes, because they're attractive, you know, kind of in black and white terms, they're attractive, but there's just not that chemistry. between you. Now, don't get me wrong, like chemistry is not the most important thing, but it depends on how you define it. And I use a few different definitions of chemistry, but you do need to have that connection, that spark between you, that just sort of lights you up when you're around them. Like, you have to have that harmonization. I don't know if that's a word, but, you know, like you have to kind of just get on the same page. And so what are some of the questions that you

should ask when you're vetting somebody. Like, what are some examples? Well, I do encourage people not to think of it as like a interrogation. Okay. And see, I'm guilty of that. I'm always like making people feel like they're on a job interview. So that because I do this for a living. Yes, that's right. I mean, obviously you're going to be asking questions in the process of a conversation. But like just how we are talking now, like you have a natural way of conversing with someone. So it's going to be contextual. It's going to be organic. It's going to be based on what is brought up in the conversation, where your mind goes, like where does your your curiosities, where do they fall? And so you want to dig a little deeper and find out a little bit more about someone. But you're not going to be running through a

list of questions. Like that's not what vetting is. And a lot of it is observational and experiential. So it's implicit in another way of explaining that. What would be like something that you might observe when you're vetting somebody on a first date? Oh, well, you know, how do they, chivalry stuff. Like if you're talking about, you know, their behavior for a man's behavior, like, does he open the door? How does he treat the weight staff and vice versa for the, for the women as well? And just general manners, you know, does she have grace or elegance and wardrobe, even just observing like the way that they're dressed, they're grooming and their language. What kinds of language do they use and their patterns of communication? Like, do they interrupt?

do they come up with like kind of little white lies? Sometimes you can catch people like, you know, like they just say things out of the blue that they could be doing it for the right reasons, like just trying to be charming or sweet or is it for their own benefit. And that's another like subtle sign to look for for people who could be manipulative, liars, deceitful, controlling narcissists or anything like that. You want to observe those sort of small white lies that may be like little clues to those bigger issues. Well, it makes sense to me to do that when you're with somebody else. But you also say it's important to vet yourself. How do you do that?

Well, vetting yourself is really just getting healthy and making sure that you are self-aware of what those maybe old wounds are, those traumas, those triggers. And I'm careful about using the word trauma. I mean, I was a specialist in trauma when I practiced. And I think that word gets thrown around way too much. Me too. Okay. So, you know, when I say trauma, I'm usually talking about big T trauma.

You know, sexual abuse, domestic violence, things like that. But, you know, nowadays people use trauma as in disagreements or people just having conflict. and I think that that's overblown. So when you have unresolved trauma, usually that's an indication that you're unstable, you're unhealthy, you haven't clarified and calibrated your own judgment because veting requires good, clear judgment. So anything that would get in the way of that are the things that you need to do to vet yourself.

What about people that their friends would say, oh, she has such a bad picker? You know, like she just always chooses terrible guys. How do you explain that? Exactly. That's a perfect example. So not having a good picker is the problem. So it doesn't matter, you know, who you pick, like how attractive he is, how successful he is. What you're not seeing is what you're compatible with. And so when you are not self-aware, if you don't know what matters to you, what your values are, what your goals are, what you need, lifestyle that you have to develop for yourself. Like if you're just living according to what you think you should be doing other people's expectations of you, then you're going to be picking the wrong person that's going to fit with that lifestyle or that personality, those behaviors that you've developed over time. So first and foremost is clarifying who you want to be and the kind of lifestyle that you want to lead. I also think about guys that I know who always seem to go

for these like super complicated overly emotional women. Why are some guys drawn to women that are like, it's like wounded birds? Oh, gosh, yes. The rescuer. You know, they love those, those dramatic women that are very exciting. And they think, I think part of it is one of the big traps that I see my male clients and generally men fall into is because there's such a deficit in healthy femininity out there that they see weaponized vulnerability as feminine. So weaponized vulnerability. Okay, wait, that is so strong. So elaborate what you mean by that.

So vulnerability should be something that is good and positive, right? It's when you're able to open up. You're able to be transparent and honest and connect with someone on a more intimate emotional level. But what we see are these women, let's just say, in this instance that we're talking, about women who use that to their benefit. Maybe they're just broken, they're lost, they're dramatic, they're, oh, you know, they're always complaining, they need something. And so that condition that they have basically, like, I mean, you know, their sort of personality condition, it causes them to be, like, needy. They need men to rescue them. And so men who are not secure and stable and

objective, they will be drawn to that because it just seems very vulnerable and alluring to them because it is a part of femininity, but it's the immature and unhealthy part of femininity. So we want to have vulnerability as a feminine woman, but it needs to come from the right constructive place and for us to have the ability to regulate our own emotions and not need somebody, not be dependent on someone to rescue us. That's brilliant. And what could you, what could you, guess that a guy who goes for women like that might have experienced in his own childhood? Well, he's probably definitely like, mommy issues? Yeah, I was going to say, these kinds of insecure attachment problems, right? They go way back in what they experience with their own

parents and whether it was their mother or just their inability to get their needs met from their parents. They didn't have proper relationship role models. There was bad communication, conflict in the home. And a lot of times, like, they were, they were abandoned. They were rejected. They needed to, they needed their parents, but their parents weren't there to meet their needs. They didn't really get a good example of how to give and receive love and feel connected to someone to feel safe. And so they may have developed this tendency to be attracted to that because, A, it could remind them of themselves, right? Like just being this very sort of immature emotional child. And this is like subconscious. They don't realize they're doing that.

Exactly. This is a pattern that a therapist or whatever would ideally point out to them, correct? Yes. Yeah. I mean, if you do the work yourself, like you can do a lot on your own, but it's really hard to sort of weed through all of this information out there. You know, you get so many different opinions and ideas from YouTube and Instagram and Twitter and everything. So people get so confused. Sometimes by the time they come to me for coaching, it's like they don't know which way is up because they've heard it all. So sometimes it's just about like sort of the proof is in the pudding, you know, having the positive outcome, being able to feel stable and to feel content and healthy. And a lot of people don't know what that feels like.

You know, they didn't have that example growing up and it can be off-putting. People can really be turned off by just that stability, creating that stability in their lives. And so even when you do get healthy, it can take a while to get adjusted to it and invite more of that in your life without it feeling like boring and needing to like slow it up. I think a lot of people have this idea where if things are like calm and healthy, then it's boring. And so then you have these people that like want to end the relationship and look for something else that's more exciting. What's, what's going on with that pattern? Yeah, that happens a lot. too. I find that a lot of those people that they need novelty, they need that excitement. Again,

it was probably modeled to them earlier on, whether it was in their childhood or it could just be previous relationships, right? Previous adult relationships in their past that they have not healed from because a lot of people end up getting into new relationships too soon without actually working through whatever happened. How long should you wait to date again if you've gone through a really serious breakup? Well, I definitely say take your time, even if we're not talking about how long after a breakup, but in general, you should not be rushing into a relationship. I would say, like, you don't really know anyone for at least two years. This is something that I try to teach people. It's a little bit of a mental health practice experience, but there are some mental illnesses that lie

dormant. Like what? For two years? You want to know. I'm like thinking of everyone I know and who I've dated and we break up around the two years. mark and what they might have had. Well, bipolar is definitely one of them. Like, it cycles through periods of time that can stretch as long as like two and a half years. But generally speaking, some of those, and it doesn't have to be like severe, you know, the shit hits the fan kind of thing.

But they will have this cyclical, problematic, destructive tendency. And they can kind of placate that or hide it for a good. period of time because I know I've heard some coaches talk about like you want to wait the 90 days out because you don't really know someone for 90 days, but it's much longer than that. If you have had that experience, sometimes you realize whether it's a friend or whether it's someone you're dating, that they can just change. All of a sudden you see a whole other side of them and it can be really kind of off-putting like you don't know where it's coming from. And then you internalize that in question like, well, what did I do or, you know, is it me or something? And how can I fix

it. You know, what can I do to change it? But sometimes it's just with them. And you don't want to internalize that and take that on. And it's really good to know that before you get more invested in the relationship. So given, you asked me like how long to wait after you break up, the most important thing is to just detox from that person, right? Definitely take like a three month period of detox and withdrawal because you, you especially if you've been with them a long time, you would have gotten attached to them and you need to have that period so that like your hormones can kind of recalibrate and get balanced. And then it's going to take that self-reflection time.

So on top of the three months, then I would give it another couple of months. But you can vet new people without making it a romantic thing. Right? So that's what I encourage people to do. I say focus on being single, friendly, and social. Oh, single friendly and social. Okay, hot girl winter. Oh, I love it. Yes. It's so important to have that mindset and people just rush into dating so fast. So when you can just chill out and not have that pressure to go on dates, I find it's much more relaxing and freeing and fun. I'm single. And when I say single, and I'm not talking about myself, but for the single people out there, like when you're single, that means you do not. have hookups. You do not have dates, like a different date every week. You're literally just single, but you're getting to know people as a single person. It's you and Sleepy Time Tea and that's

it. You don't have to be boring, but I think it just, especially for women, right? For women, I think it's so refreshing to just be able to have that boundary. And it makes life so much easier because you don't have to worry about like feeding that attraction that you have for someone just because you have feelings for someone. You don't have to act on it. You can just get to know them and not go out on a date. The average woman in the United States uses 12 cosmetic products composed of 168 chemical ingredients daily. Now research indicates that not all of these chemical ingredients may even be safe for human use. So when I found Olivia, a pre-examical, prebiotic body wash. I was mesmerized. I have learned so much like how prebiotics, when added to your

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and use code Alex15 for 15% off. That's A-L-E-A-V-I-A-V-I-A-V-A-A-V-A-A-5 for 15% off. Alevia.com with code Alex 15, or you can scroll down and find it in the show notes. Everybody talks about chemistry. You've got to find the person that you have the best chemistry with. You taught me that it's not just this blanket chemistry, that there are different types of chemistry good and bad. What are they? So sexual chemistry is the obvious one. And then there's emotional chemistry and intellectual chemistry. And they're all really important, but recognizing that the sexual chemistry one is usually what we focus on. That's the desire, the attraction. the lust, the polarity, the infatuation.

The emotional side of chemistry is more about the connection, emotional intimacy, attachment, the bonding. And the intellectual chemistry is really just that intellectual compatibility where, you know, you're on the same page, you get each other, you can entertain each other, you can have long conversations and you don't really get bored of having each other around. So wait a minute, can I just ask you in that, within that, little in that regard. How important is the chemistry you feel when you're texting back and forth with somebody? I think that you can master the texting process. Because some girls are

like, he's just a bad text or give it time. And I always am like, the relationships for me that have been the best have been the ones where immediately even in texting, I feel chemistry. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say like something like a blanket statement that you should have the chemistry in the first week of texting. If you can't get that rhythm going, definitely meet in person and confirm, like, what you feel for each other. But you can improve it. You can definitely work on it. But men have a really hard time with the whole texting process. I would group them differently. So the sexual chemistry piece I put under this category of desire or, like I said, it's lust, passion, and that kind of stuff. And the emotional intimacy or the emotional chemistry is like emotional

intimacy, it's under connection, it's under the love factor of my vetting system. Okay. And the intellectual chemistry is under compatibility. So a lot of people tend to overlook compatibility or downplay compatibility and really just focus on the feelings. What should actually be determining if you're compatible with somebody? Well, having shared values, shared goals, and having a similar lifestyle. Because you're, it doesn't, you don't have to share interests necessarily.

A lot of people get this confused. used. I see interests as sort of the micro level things, but compatibility is based on macro level of things. So the bigger picture stuff. And those are going to be like your core values. So whether that's health, fitness, it could be creativity, it could be family, you know, any of those big picture things, you want to align on those values, faith, you know, could be political ideology, things like that. But in the way that you express them, your interest, they can vary. So you don't want to get too hung up on, well, I was talking to a client today and she was saying how she likes dance and she wants to go out and see performances of dance. And I was suggesting to her that she needs a partner who's

going to appreciate that kind of arts and culture, right, those kinds of things. That needs to be important to him. Because you're saying don't look at it as the specific activity, because if you're only bonding over dance, literally, then what happens if in 10 to 15 years, number one, with age, you're physically unable to dance, or your interest just changed. But you're saying, look at it in the broader scheme of the arts. Because within the arts, there could be, if you guys both like that, you might discover, oh, we love going to musicals together. We love, you know, getting involved ourselves in community theater or going to art galleries or doing these things because if you bond over that, there's so many things. Whereas if you only specific on, we love going to art galleries together,

if you change your mind, you've nothing to do together or bond over in the future, I guess, right? Exactly. You got it. Yeah. Because I remember somebody giving me that advice, they were like, if you get married based on your mutual love of cruises and then a few years down the road, your wife or your husband says, honey, I'm sick of doing these cruises. And it's like, what now? You know? But Your whole advice on lifestyle mattering I love because really it's probably more important, not that you both love to go horseback riding or go on cruises, but is he a homebody and you're somebody that likes going out and being social and stuff? Because wouldn't that cause way more friction in a relationship? Yeah. And it's going to take you apart. Like it's going to tear you apart.

You're going to have more time with other people that's going to create intimacy with different types of people. If you're going out with girlfriends all the time, then you're missing out. on some of that connection and bonding with your partner, your husband, your spouse. How do you know if you're confusing chaos with chemistry? Chaos is definitely more on the destructive side. So chemistry, and a lot of people define chemistry in different ways, but using the way that I look at it, it's a way of harmonizing with someone. So you're on the same page, you gel. And it should feel like together you're better. So it's more constructive or emergent energy, whereas chaos is going to make you feel like you're better off without them.

Like you might want them in your life, but when you take an objective look or the people that care about you, kind of try to pull you aside and say, listen, you know, you're not taking care of yourself. You've lost track of all the things that you love. So you're becoming, you're regressing because of having that person in your life. And that's when they introduce that chaos. That's destructive. get out of a toxic relationship? It's like every time you try to leave, they have some way of reeling you back in. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely hard when you're in it and, you know, you feel like addicted to the relationship and you're dependent on it. You're really outcome dependent and that's like

no matter what happens, I want it to work, not being able to step aside from your feelings and look at it objectively. So, I mean, the point is the only way out of that kind of situation. is really to get healthy yourself. And it takes a lot to just get to that point where you realize you have to prioritize your health, your mental health, your day-to-day health, like just being functional and making sure that you are taking care of your needs. So between that realization that you're not okay and taking the accountability to do that, and you could stay in the relationship.

I've had clients, even before when I was practicing, I've had clients that stayed in the relationship while they try to make this transition to being more self-aware and accountable and learning to prioritize their well-being before the relationship. And then as they got clearer, they realized that the relationship wasn't healthy for them. But what happens if every time they try to initiate the conversation to break up, they are talked out of it. Yeah. I mean, when you have that objectivity, when you start to regulate your emotions, I think that is where the power comes from. And I've heard that from a lot of people when they're they it's almost like when this might be a funny comparison, but it's like being the sober person at a party and everybody

else is drunk. Like when you're able to see how reactive everybody else is from sober eyes, it just it like you're seeing clearly. You're brave and you're like, nope, this is happening goodbye, you know? Yeah. I would definitely encourage people to focus on the emotional self-regulation because it's a superpower. So here's the big question. Everybody wants to say, my partner is toxic. How do you know if you're actually the toxic person? Yeah, that is a definitely, that's an issue because people do point the finger a lot pointing at their partner, but they're in it for a reason. Usually it's a trauma bond. And the way that I describe what a trauma bond is it's two insecurely attached people with unresolved issues, I'm going to call them traumas or wounds or whatever. And they're sort of like

playing it out with each other. It's almost like having like a like they're the missing piece of your trauma puzzle and you're subconsciously trying to resolve it and work it out by dealing with them. And then it brings up all this stuff because then you're trying to get their approval. You're trying to, you know, make them love you just the way that you are. And it's just an endless cycle. So recognizing that if you're with someone toxic, it's probably because there was a reason that you were attracted to them and learning about yourself is really important. Like really just taking stock and figuring out, okay, how did I get here? And what is it about me that's keeping me here? I swear that every girl I meet will tell me like, oh, well, my ex was a narcissist. And I'm like,

okay, the amount that I hear that sentence, there is no way, I mean, I think there is no way there is no way there is that many people truly narcissistic walking among us, or am I wrong? And is everybody really a narcissist? No, I'm with you. There are not that many classically NPD people. But there are a lot of different classifications outside of the clinical scope. So people can be the covert narcissist or the overt narcissist or the malignant narcissist, which is more like the NPD narcissistic personality disorder. But generally speaking, I think what they mean is just that person is selfish. They're entitled. Um, there may be vain. All those kinds of non-clinical imperfections. That's the thing. People just, I think, have imperfections. I don't think everybody is truly mentally ill. No. I mean, there is a lot of mental

illness. Don't get me wrong. But, and more so with women. So yeah, there's a spike in mentalness. Every girl has dated somebody who was emotionally abusive. They say my ex was emotionally abusive. Is that a real thing? Yes. But I'm just like, you know, what is true narcissism? What is true emotional abuse? Yeah.

I mean, it's not as much as people say it is. They complain a lot more. Or they use those terms inappropriately to describe things that are more, you know, regular problems. So again, that goes back to just what I was saying before about like people talking. about disagreements and conflict and magnifying that into something clinical when it's not. So learning how to communicate properly and conflict properly and manage your emotions more responsibly by regulating your emotions. That will resolve a lot of these problems and relationships, but instead they just point the finger, which in itself is a signal of narcissism,

right, is just not taking responsibility, not having empathy and abdicating any kind of role. in it. How do you spot a true narcissist? Well, true narcissist lack empathy. This is something that, you know, it's usually pretty obvious when you see someone that lacks empathy. It's very, it's beyond stoic, right? Because people misunderstand what stoicism is. So this is more like an inhuman, you know, kind of person where they just feel very detached. But also they have this grandiosity about their personality. Like you're crying and they're like, So what are we having for dinner tonight? Yes.

Like something like that. Very detached lack of empathy. Feeling like they're very, you know, showy. They're very, they think very highly of themselves beyond just boastful or something. Like it's a really big personality. I mean, I can think of some personalities that are popular. Tell us. Tell us.

Yeah. Well, you know, Andrew Tate is probably one that comes to mind, right? I would agree. He's definitely very grandiose in his personality. But I wouldn't say he lacks. empathy. So I don't, I don't think he fits the definition, but definitely the grandiosity I wanted to describe. No, that's a good. That's a good example. Okay. So in addition to the lack of empathy and the grandiosity, they're definitely going to be seeking validation. Sometimes there's some

insecurity underneath that, you know, sort of arrogant personality that they're avoiding. And so they cope with that by overcompensating with the arrogance. And there's going to be manipulation, controlling behavior, it could be lies. They could be very destructive as well, just to get what they want. So it could be sadistic even. It could be as, you know, destructive as being sadistic, which is hurting other people. Okay. Right.

So antisocial behaviors we're talking about. So on that level, that person is like the criminal level of narcissist. And is it ever possible for somebody who struggles with narcissists? them to change? Is it a struggle even? Or it's like if you are with a true narcissist in the clinical sense, you just have to leave. Yeah. If you're with someone like that, I would, I wouldn't advise to try to work that out. Like, does therapy actually help them or no? It's not something that's really a treatable thing. Narcissists don't normally end up in therapy by choice. Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense. But people who are not really.

NPD, but who are referred to as a narcissist who are maybe more arrogant and maybe bossy, you know, or they want to have their way. Maybe they're high-powered business people or something like that. They're not classic NPD, but they are self-absorbed and they may be a little bit, you know, in their own world and not care so much about your problems. They're focused on what they want to get done and being right and getting their way. You can fix those people. you know, I wouldn't say fix, but you can definitely improve on their behaviors if they show up to do the work, usually because something they want is at risk. Yeah. Okay, that's brilliant. You say that men always know if they're not going to marry the girl, but that the girl rarely knows that's the

case. Where is the disconnect there? Gosh, so men typically will know sooner if the girl is someone he would marry. But I am hesitant to encourage people to talk about the like love at first sight kind of thing. I think it's it's lust at first sight. It's not quite love at first sight, though it turns into love over time. And so people will look back on that and be like, well, I was love at first sight. No, not really. But I get what you were saying. You knew you wanted to marry her and it worked out. You did your vetting after that and you found that you were compatible and the two of you got on the same page. But women generally will take a lot longer to figure out that he's the one for her. She might fall in love at first sight, you know, as well, just based on lust and infatuation.

But I think you have to test a man in a lot of other ways to make sure that he's going to be the right man to marry because marriage and children comes with a lot of burden, you know, a lot of risk. And so women tend to wait it out a little bit longer before they know. Are you a CPEB girl? A CPEB girl all the times like me? Well, for all the CPEB girls, you must try Nimi Skin Care's Overnight Recovery Sleep Mask. Wake up to skin that feels soft, refreshed, and have a natural glow. The overnight recovery sleep mask from Mimi is this gorgeous,

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Neemiskincare.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off or find the link in the show notes. Are rebounds after a breakup healthy, in your opinion? No, no. Rebounds are definitely not healthy. And a lot of people, what they do is they swing from one one type of person. to almost like the exact opposite. It's like whatever they were missing in their relationship, they'll be attracted to in the next person. You are so right about that. That's happened. You've experienced that? Not even, I wouldn't say with me, but like girlfriends that I know that are like, as soon as they get out of a relationship, it's like, well, now I'm going out with this guy from Hinge. And then I'm like, well, what's the deal with him? And then they tell me about him. And I'm like,

oh my gosh, it is totally what they were missing or complained about from the previous relationship. Exactly. And so what you have to do is you have to still look at the whole picture. You know, are they compatible across the board? Or is it just this one thing that you really wanted for all that time that you were in the relationship and you're so thirsty for it, you know, that that's what's drawing you in. But isn't good to distract yourself with somebody else when you're getting over somebody? I would say no. Okay. I would say you can meet your needs in other relationships. Like with platonic relationships. Right. With friends and family. So definitely work all. on your secure attachments in other non-romantic, non-sexual ways. And that will help you build yourself back up and recognize what you need in a whole package going forward.

I think that we have an epidemic of situationships. And so many of us cannot get out of the freaking situationships. It's like that is even more common to me than just a traditional boyfriend, girlfriend relationship. How do we get out of situationships chronically and pursue relationships? relationships. Yeah. People really need to be clear on what their goals are and what their needs are, what their boundaries are. And as much as it may push some people away, it depends on if you want to call them the right people being pushed away or the wrong people being pushed away, but those people are not the ones that you

should be with. Like if they're turned off by what you communicate to them, obviously you're going to be tactful about it and not going to be brazen about it and rude. But you're you need to know. yourself well enough to know that you want to be exclusive before you have sexual intimacy. And exclusivity can be different than commitment. So I talk. What does that mean? I talk about this and some people don't see how it can be separate because of their faith and that's fine.

Like if your faith is very specific, that's, I get it. But some people are not faith-based. And so they can have a sexually exclusive relationship with someone, but they're not serious and on track towards marriage quite yet. Okay. Yes. So you want to be clear about that. So if some people can say, I will not be sexual with you unless we're exclusive.

So we're monogamous. And people get this wrong all the time. It's like if you're a monogamous person, you're not going to be dating multiple people. And so if you are going to be kissing, if you're going to be having intimate one-to-one time, meeting the family, like you should be doing that. exclusively with one person. But the modern type of dating, like, encourages people to do that with you know, it's almost like polyamory. They're doing it with multiple people at once. And that's not monogamy. That's not exclusive. So being more selective and being able to, what I call,

sequentially date people and clarify compatibility first is much more effective. What are some tips for people who struggle with self-sabotaging in relationships? Well, I think a lot of people self-sabotage by violating their own needs and really trying to seek approval from the other person. Like maybe they like this person because they're attractive or they look good on paper. They took off all the boxes. And so they think, oh, that will be a good boyfriend or girlfriend. So I want them to like me. And in order for them to like me, I have to kind of change who I am or not tell them how I feel, what I need.

what I want. And that's how they sabotage themselves. And a lot of people are not even aware of that. They're not aware that they're seeking someone's approval and not just trying to be a good boyfriend or girlfriend. And I think that awareness usually takes the objectivity of an outside person, kind of sharing that insight with them. So whether it's a friend or family member or a coach, I mean, I think it's important to open up and talk to your friends. Like if you notice that they're kind of putting themselves out there. How do you say that, though, without like, you know, offending them? It's always hard, you know, with your girlfriends, let's say, and you're trying to, you know, give them some tough love and just be honest with them.

But if you've cultivated that relationship over the years, I think obviously that will be the easiest way to break the ice there. you'll have a running conversation that's more honest. And you can maybe ask them, be curious about how they're experiencing their relationship. So it's almost like you have to do a little bit of therapy speak, you know, with your friends. So you have to be subtle and be kind. But it's about not telling them what to do or telling them that they're wrong, but just caring about them. And being compassionate about what matters to them and just observing. like you're reflecting your observations of them to them.

So I've noticed lately that you've stopped doing X, Y, Z. And I was just curious about that. Like, did you not like that anymore? Why did you stop that? So that it makes them realize, oh, yeah, like I always paint and I haven't been painting. Why is that? Well, maybe because I'm dating this crud. Exactly.

So I think that's a better way to go about it than, you know, kind of wagging your finger at your friend and saying, you know, he's not good for you. You know, you just need to end this. That's not going to go over well. So being more compassionate and trying to be curious about what they're experiencing and then maybe helping them reveal, like, what is it that their goals? Like, what are they working towards? What is it that they want out of life or what matters to them? Because maybe they don't even know what they value and what they prioritize in life. and they don't see that they're veering off track.

So I think it's worth a conversation. Age old question that all of us want to know, should we text him first? I say no, generally. There's going to be some differences depending on a case-by-case thing. But the man should always pursue, I would say always, but most of the time, he should pursue in the beginning. That's the really important point. I agree with this. So, yeah, but this is another really important point.

pick up the phone and call her. Too many times men are relying on texting to ask women out on a date. And my men, in regards to my clients, now they are taking up that advice and they're like, you're right. I got so much feedback from this girl that I stood out that she was, she thought it was really brave, you know, and she liked that I gave her a call and asked her out. So they're getting good outcomes from just picking up the phone. Well, obviously, they got to ask for the number. first. So like if they don't have the number, they'll text and ask for the number. But segueing very quickly to that initial phone call is so important. And don't ask her out first on a text. Do it import, like on the phone. Yeah, the best date or first impression or whatever that I've had this year,

best date that I've had this year, first date, was a guy who we matched with on a dating app. And then, yes, we texted for like a few hours or whatever, kind of getting to know each other. And then he asked me out to dinner for later that week. Well, like two days before the planned dinner, he's like, hey, what time are you going to be getting off work? Could I shoot you a quick call? And I was like, sure. That was like, you know, very unexpected. But he called me and talked to me my whole way home from work, just a little bit of like, you know, nothing crazy, but a little bit of getting to know you questions, probably to like make sure it was going to be comfortable for us meeting then face to face at the dinner. But also telling me, like, you know,

I'm still looking forward to our day. I want to make sure that you're still good for it, but, you know, I can't wait to meet you and all that. I just figured I would call you first, and I appreciated that so much. And then the first date was phenomenal. Didn't end up working out, which is a very sad story, and I still am like sad about it.

But it was the best date that I've been on this year, and that's what he did. So I totally agree. And I always could flag for that. I say, that is my thing. I will never text a guy first. I say I'll never text him first. It doesn't mean what you're saying that later on the road, if we're in a relationship,

of course I'm texting first. But that's after we are in a relationship or, you know, established dating for a while. But yeah, in the beginning stages, I love he should be texting first. And I think the difference is when women usually reach out and text first, it's because she's not seeing you romantically yet, usually. And that's when it doesn't really, it doesn't really have the same meaning, right? But when a woman likes you romantically and wants to make the first move, that's kind of a masculine gesture.

And so I encourage the men to do that and for women to hold back. Yes, hold back in the beginning if she already knows she's romantically interested. But if in the beginning you're just kind of friends, you know, you're part of the same social circle or whatever, like sometimes like the woman may text. And then he knows, oh, well, she texted me. So I've got to be on her mind on some level. then it kind of shifts. And then the woman may pull back a little bit.

And that can confuse men too. It's like, oh, well, she texted me first then, but now she's kind of being a little bit less communicative. And I said, that's not an excuse for you to pull back more. That's an excuse or a reason for you to now advance and make it clear what your intentions are. And that's when he picked up the phone and called her. And that, and it works? Yeah.

Okay. Here's, okay, here's the other thing. What is going on with the guy that, talks to you daily, is making plans with you, but then ghosts you out of thin air and just quits talking to you? Well, I mean, the likely explanation is that he's got something else going on, right? So you shouldn't have to play those kind of mental gymnastics to try to figure out what someone, like why they ghosted you or whatever. But oftentimes it's for selfish reasons. Whether or not it's about another woman, you might not know, so you don't have to have that

answer. But generally speaking, it's just it was convenient for him to. to pursue you, kind of not necessarily love bomb you, right? But he was coming on strong and then it disappeared, probably because I don't say he was hoardy, you know what I mean? Like he was kind of like looking for some gratification. He was bored. Whatever it was. Like it was not based on anything deep and meaningful. It was probably just some kind of superficial pleasure seeking purpose. How do you actually get a guy to fall in love with you? I hate that question. Not for from you, but I'm just saying, like, those kinds of statements, I feel like, oh, every time I hear it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me because you don't want to make anyone fall in love or get

obsessed with you. I think it's so important to focus on who you feel is right for you. And when you're starting, I'm trying to think of me and Dennis, like in the very beginning, it was, it was difficult because we got, we vetted online for nine months. And Dennis is your soon to be fiancé. Yes. Hopefully he, well, I don't know if he knows that you know. Yes, yes. I mean, you could call him my fiance because we talked about marriage. I just want like the proper ring proposal and so that's coming.

Okay. But anyway, yes. So Dennis and I have been together for five years. And in the beginning, we vetted online for nine months before we met in person. And he was traveling all over South America, like Argentina and Colombia and Mexico. So I was super nervous about what was going on in his life. And does he like me for real? is this going to happen or is this just like for fun for him? And so I had to do a lot of self-regulation

during that time. And I really wanted him to like me, but that wasn't a motivation for me to manipulate the situation to get him to like me or focus on me, right? So that's hard. That's hard for girls. Yes, it is. I think part of that sort of shadow side of femininity is to be more manipulative, you know, passive aggressive and conniving a little bit, even if it's well intended. I think it can be the immature side of femininity that's more of like the siren, you know, and tries to play those games. So I discourage people from focusing on that and really just being more authentic and more clear and upfront and secure about communication.

You can still be coy, right? Like you can still be coy and have a little mystery. Yeah. Like you don't want to lay all your cards out. on the table and saying, well, I'm ready when you are. Like, just let me know when you're in town. But you want to be able to be receptive to their communication. So what I like to say for women is to be more enthusiastic than the man.

It's important for the woman to show more emotion and not to expect the man to show just as much emotion, especially in emojis if we're talking about texting. The men need to stop with the emojis. I always say huge turnoff. When a guy uses emojis, I cannot stand it. Yeah. Men have this habit of sometimes mirroring a woman's behavior. Like he thinks, I don't know, it's subconscious, but when you call it out, like, because my clients will screenshot their texts and I'll help them analyze. I love that. They love it too. It's very helpful because I'm teaching them how to communicate via text. And it's not, it's not something that people just know naturally. Men need to have the instruction and they love to be told how to do it. But it's important for them to figure out and internalize how to do it themselves, not that I'm always going to be ghost texting for them, right? Well, guys also need to understand. And I don't think enough guys understand that as women, we overanalyze every aspect of your text message down to

whatever punctuation you uses in our mind. We're like, he's into me. He's not into me because you used a period versus no period or something like that. Like we do that. We do that. We do that. Yeah. And it's, there's a lot of subcommunication that goes on. And especially without like the body language, voice notes can really help. So I love voice notes. Encourage men to to leave voice notes. And they're at first, they're usually resistant. But then they're like, oh, it really works. Like I'm going to start using this from now on. But it's to their benefit because then they can communicate in a better way. They get the point across. Their tone is is there. I hope no one in my family is listening to this episode. So this is kind of a gamble sharing this

publicly, but, oh well, it might help you out. So I'm going to share it. For my parents and grandparents this year, I'm putting together the ultimate non-toxic gift box as their Christmas present from me. Luxury sea salt without microplastics. Luxury olive oil, bone broth, soap. You probably know the one I'm going to put in there. And some other things like a roll of bum roll toilet paper. Why? Because bum roll is 100% non-toxic premium bath tissue that's sustainable and and 100% American made with U.S. and North American materials. Each bum roll is 100% recycled with two ply layers of softness and strength and comes with 400 sheets per roll.

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That's join bumroll.com with code Alex for $3 off your first purchase or find the link in the description. What do you think of this advice that girls need to marry the guy that's a little bit of? more in love with them than they are. Oh, that's another one. I've gotten a lot of pushback on my posts. I've posted about this so many times for years that marry the man that loves you more is horrible advice. How so? So it kind of speaks to what we were talking about before. Like, women need to be more enthusiastic than a man. That doesn't mean a man isn't enthusiastic about the woman internally, but externally, he should not be emoting like a woman, like with Gaga eyes and like, you know, like how movies and cartoons show romance.

Well, I think, you know, what's a really good example that everyone will get is that on the Bachelor, you always see the girl run to the guy and jump on him right for a jump hug. You don't see on The Bachelorette the guy's running towards the Bachelorette as a jump hug. Yes, exactly. Or this whole tendency of like the, the, the, you know, the. woman should be like giving the man flowers or proposing to the men. Like that's just backwards. So the man needs to obviously be extremely into the woman and you should love each other equally, but it's more like equivalently, but the way that you love is different. So men show love in

different ways than women do generally. And we talk about the five love languages, but mostly it's, you know, specific ways that men tend to show love, mostly through like acts of sex. service, physical touch, affection. Women are more about words of affirmation than men are. That's not to say that you shouldn't compliment a man or whatever. Oh, I am a slut for words of affirmation. Yes, exactly. That is definitely more of a feminine thing and that's okay. But the woman has to really adore the man. If she's not almost obsessed with the man, then it probably won't last. If the man is pedestalizing her and worshiping her the way that some of these women. Simping. Yeah, basically, it is simping. It dies off because then it puts her in a position of being

like in power. So don't marry the simp. No. Once you're married, of course. Like it's once you're in a solid relationship, then the man is going to be more affectionate. He's going to smile more. He's going to be, you know, have more cuddling and some of those more feminine ways of expressing love. but men need to be validated for the ways that they naturally express their love. And I have great examples from Dennis because he signed me up for like this field craft. I don't know if anybody, any of the listeners know what that is, but that's like survivalist kind of thing. Cool. And so it's a form of love, right?

I want you to be there with me and we're going to be a team and figure it out. And then the other day he's like, I packed your go bag and he showed me my backpack and everything had like its place. That's so cute. Everybody's like getting last minute, you know, gift ideas right now for Christmas. I've never heard of that. But see, like a lot of women don't see that as romance or love. They're looking for poetry and roses and chocolates and, you know, things that are more feminine. So it's not to say men can't do those things. But let's validate all the ways that men naturally express their love that are usually overlooked. What is the top behavior in women that turns men off? I would say entitlement. That is. It's almost like it's a symptom of narcissism in a way, right? So you mean like bragging and saying like, oh, I'm just high maintenance? Well, high maintenance, yeah.

I would say high maintenance is definitely a form of entitlement versus the high maintenance of like, I need to look good and I have high standards. Like that's not the type of bad high maintenance. I think bad high maintenance is being an entitled person who expects things for them that they don't give. So like those viral TikToks of a guy on the street going up to girls outside the club and they're like, you know, what does a man have to have to marry you? And she's like, has to make at least $500,000 a year, this, this and this. And then they go, well, what are you bringing to the table? And she's like, well, just, I'm cute. Is that like kind of what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, you're not going to have the same exact thing that you're bringing to the table. But I posted about this recently, too. The woman needs to recognize that she has to bring value to the relationship. But men should not be asking this question literally to a woman. It's like, Like, oh, like the guy should not say, what are you going to bring to the table? Exactly.

I think what happened. This is what I think happened, right? This is my detective hat. Somebody went to a coach and the coach was like, listen, buddy. Like, you need to find a woman who brings some real shit to the table. Like, don't put up with this nonsense anymore. And he was like, yeah, yeah, you're right. I'm going to do this next time.

And so he's starting to date this girl. And he's like, what do you bring to the table? Like, he just regurgitated what some coach told him, I'm sure. So that's how it started. in my... I think that's probably true. And now it's like a meme. And so men need to recognize

that this is not an explicit question you ask to women. It's a question you ask yourself and you need to vet the woman to figure out what value she brings to your life because she needs to augment your life. She cannot be just dead weight that you're carrying around.

Okay. And then what is the number one behavior in men that turns women off? It's lack of confidence. Because what they're really attracted to is that sense of pride. and ambition and drive. It's just that real high value man energy.

And there are some studies done that the emotion that women are most attracted to in men is pride, which I define as like confidence, right? It's not like the bad kind of pride. But that confidence where men, you know, they stand up with a puffed up chest and, you know, they've got that air about them. So a man who is meek, a man who is passive and indecisive,

Ew. Ew. Ew. The way that... You are so right. I am absolutely unequivocally disgusted and turned off by guys who are indecisive. When I, when they, they are, I am allowed to say, I don't know where I want to eat, but he better know. He better know when it goes back and forth. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, ugh. I hate it. It's so feminine. 100%. Oh. Yes. And I think most women would agree with you. That's definitely at the top of the list. So men need to be decisive. They need to know what they want. And even if it's a bad suggestion, it doesn't matter. Like having that boldness is important.

You know what? Even better to me is when I'm talking to somebody and they ask me on a date is they don't say what types of places do you like to eat or where would you, where do you think you would want to go? I hate that. I love more than anything in the first stages of texting when he's asking me out for him to say, if he can say what's your schedule. look like when are you free, but then like, all right, so then based on your schedule, 7 p.m. Friday, meet me here. And they just tell me. I am an adult.

I will figure out as we get there, what I'll get on the menu. There's going to, you know, what I'm going to do. But otherwise, just tell me what we're doing and where we're going. That's so much more attractive. Yeah, but I have a question for you because this is a running conversation I have with my men's coaching group. I believe that they should not just say, when are you free? That it's very open-ended and kind of, it's almost like a business meeting.

Like they should give you an option of like, how about Thursday or Friday? Yeah. Like just to be more specific because the vetting, because remember vetting is going to clarify how responsive the person is, like the woman is on the other side of that. So if you ask her specifically on a day like this Thursday or Friday or whatever, then she can say, oh, no, I'm not available that day, but I am available a next day. So you've just gotten really good information that this woman is interested and she has boundaries because she's not just going to accommodate you because she has something else to do.

So the vetting is you've gathered a lot of more information than just saying, check your calendar and tell me what, they are free. Yeah, I don't like that. You know what? I'm just not even replying to that. No, that's awesome. I love that advice. What is the difference between incompatibility and restlessness?

It's kind of like that person who's seeking excitement when they feel like this is too boring, this is too healthy, it's too stable. oh my God. Yes. And so they want to sort of get some more excitement and they feel like this person is just not doing it for them. So that person may be struggling with having that restlessness, which comes from an insecurity, comes from them not knowing what they need and not knowing what matters to them and not

being aligned with their values. But it's not incompatibility necessarily. Like you don't even know if you're compatible with the person because you haven't vetted yourself yet. Ooh. Okay. Yes. that is helpful. How do you talk to a partner about issues when every single thing you say,

if it's in the slightest way critical, they perceive it as a personal attack? That happens a lot with people who are not able to regulate their emotions. They're very reactive. They're very defensive. Also a very feminine trait. Yes, it is. Definitely. And actually, when I was thinking about my answer, I was thinking of this case with a woman in particular who just, she's very reactive to any issue that is brought up by her husband. And he's accused of being a bully. Yes, I hate that you're bullying me or whatever just for bringing up anything that you're bothered by.

What was your advice on how they should deal with that? Well, in this situation, I don't think their relationship to their marriage is going to work out because she cannot regulate her emotions, take any responsibility at all for her reactions. And that's basically one of the reasons. why or how you know that the relationship is unhealthy because a lot of people hire me because they need to figure out should I stay or should I go. Like is this salvageable? And that's when you're incompatible, not because necessarily you and the other person couldn't make it work,

but the other person is just so set in their ways and refuses to do their own work that they're creating an impasse because you cannot do the work for two people in a relationship. And so that person who's so emotionally reactive that no matter how hard you try to, to be accommodating and understanding and empathic and regulate your own emotions, take accountability, come to the conflict table with tact and patience. If they're continuing to bring that reactive childlike behavior, then you have to start to detach yourself a little bit and recognize that this is their issue and you cannot force them to change. If they refuse to change, then sometimes it means that a relationship is not meant to last.

Is the right relationship necessarily going to be easy? It will feel easier, right? Because there is a sense of comfort that comes from a healthy relationship, which sometimes people confuse is boring. But there's a difference between a relationship not requiring effort to make it work and a relationship feeling easeful. Okay. So that is the distinction that people need to focus on because all relationships take effort,

take work, but it should be easy to be with someone ultimately. They shouldn't be triggering to you constantly. And that's what a lot of people and a lot of coaches and therapists, I think, where they get it wrong, because they say, you know, well, it's a mirror for you and it's bringing out your stuff and you need to work, just means you need to do more work and grow. But a healthy relationship isn't triggering constantly. If there is no growth and that sort of problem is not resolved, then there's a problem there. I would call that a trauma bond. It's just re-triggering you constantly. Because it's common doesn't mean it's normal. We say, oh, well, that's just normal for girls to experience this and this and this. That is not true. We are not supposed to have completely debilitating

cramps on our period. A little discomfort, but it shouldn't be crazy. The food we eat during that week makes a difference. The types of workouts we're doing should be different that week. And guess what? the types of tampons that you're using could also be making your cramps worse. I have noticed the biggest difference in the severity of my cramps since switching to 100% organic cotton Garnu pads and tampons. Many women who have endometriosis report fewer symptoms, shorter periods in less intense cramps when they use organic tampons compared to regular tampons. In fact, 85% of regular tampons contain dioxins and other chemicals that have been linked to severe cramping. This is so stupid.

Your typical tampons from the drugstore are filled with chemicals like glyphosate, which we avoid like the plague in our food, but they're entering our bloodstream faster vaginally than if we were consuming them. Garnu tampons and pads are dye-free, chlorine-free, fragrance-free, and 100% organic. They're also conservative-owned, cuter, and ship right to your house. Try them at garnu.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off. That's g-r-n-u-u.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off or find the link in the description. You are an avid supporter of living together before you're married. Why?

Vetting. I think cohabitation is the last stage of vetting before marriage. and some people want to get married right away before they live together. And I know the research is pretty biased towards not cohabiting. Yeah, I thought it was that you're more likely to get divorced if you live together. But here's the thing, and this is the catch. That research did not look at properly vetted couples. And most research does not.

So what they're using is usually having that compatibility based on faith. right? And so those couples that don't have premarital sex and don't cohabit usually align on their faith. And so that's a strong core value that is one of those vetting aspects that they've already clarified. So that's why those marriages usually turn out well and don't get divorced. But people who are cohabiting that have done proper vetting, they have not done the research on that. They haven't compared those two groups. So that it's misleading research based on that. And then it does say that in there. Like we did not actually look at the selection. Yeah. So you think it's bad science. Well, incomplete, let's call it incomplete science. But it's a personal choice. So if you are,

you know, of the opinion that you should not cohabit before you get married, that's fine as long as you do your proper due diligence and vetting, which means you either go visit your families together, sleep in separate rooms, whatever, and go travel together, sleep in separate beds, whatever you need to do. But you need to make sure that you're doing hard things together, stress testing your relationship. So just don't rush the process. I encourage people to wait the two years out before they marry or they get engaged or whatever. So that the bipolar jumps out. Exactly.

But in general, like there's a lot of things, it's not really time-based, it's quality of experience-based. Okay, that's actually a really good tip because you could go through crazy stuff in six months, I mean, or not. But what you're saying is, you know, go on a road trip together, face adversity together, see how you get through that. Exactly. And, you know, but then again, the caveat is if you can stretch that out for two years, you're just going to lower your risk of having any bad surprises later on that's going to cause divorce. How do you feel about couples, by the way, speaking of sleeping in separate beds? How do you feel about the couples that say like, well, my husband and I were totally happily married, but we just sleep better apart. We have different rooms or different beds. Yeah, I have a strong opinion about that too, but the research supports this, that sleeping together is better for your health and for your intimacy.

And the couples that justify the separate bedrooms, usually it started off because of some kind of sleep dysfunction or child care issue or different shifts or something like that. And they just never got back on the same page. And that's the distinction is they started to get complacent and normalized this, you know, sort of band-aid that they've put on the relationship. And maybe they didn't really look at the root cause, whether that's a physical health issue, like if it's snoring, or maybe it's a relationship issue. Maybe there is something that is causing the detachment in the relationship. Now, there's going to be some exceptions to this rule.

But generally speaking, sleeping in separate bedrooms is usually, it's usually worse for one person. Like if there are two people that maybe they've clarified this before they even got married that they just prefer it that way, then that's okay. But usually one person feels abandoned. It was they felt a little pushed out. And that creates a lot of sadness in a person, to be honest. Like it doesn't feel good to feel rejected by your boyfriend or girlfriend or friend or spouse.

And they just kind of accommodate the person's, I call it their, uh, they're like a precious sleeper. And I think these things need to be clarified beforehand, right? Like once you're attached to someone, it's so hard to break up over these things. But if you focus on preventing problems versus trying to treat them after the fact, then you can really confirm compatibility based on all of this stuff. And that's why it's important to be honest and upfront and yeah, talk about it. This was wild to me. You think that it's actually more fair, biologically for men to carry the stress and work and for women to have more comfort and leisure. Immediately people in the comments were going to be like, what the hell is she talking about?

Yeah, no, it's true. We are biologically just made to have more or more leisure and less stress. It doesn't mean that men should necessarily be punished and put under all of the stress, but they physiologically just handle stress differently. You know, testosterone has a different reaction to stress. And women, our cycles are different. You know, we cycle on a 28 plus day cycle, men every single day. And cortisol and our sex hormones, they just function differently.

And so we need to be aware of that and recognize that when we are functioning like men and putting ourselves under too much stress, our reproductive cycle, our reproductive systems are not functioning properly. We have way too much cortisol running through our bodies. And I mean, I learned a lot of this stuff just focusing on my fertility. I talk about this constantly. I say because everybody's just like, well, I know girls get periods. But the education never goes beyond that.

And I just was talking about this on my YouTube channel, was telling people you and your partner, your significant other, have got to understand your cycle in the four different phases. I said, you know, even Flow app or whatever, you can now share it with your partner so he can see what phase you're at. And if he understands that, everything becomes clear. Because people are like, I don't understand women. You will understand women if you understand our cycles. Yeah. And it's not an excuse to like act like a crazy person. I think some women weaponize that. If you're totally acting like a crazy person, then that's a sign something with your hormones is wrong. Yeah. It's not,

you should be regulated. You shouldn't be having a lot of the PMS symptoms. You shouldn't have the mood swings that drastic. And that's why people need to be more self-aware and take more accountability for their health overall. But yeah, I mean, I think that women, when we're able to regulate our cycle, our emotions, we recognize that we function better at a slower pace, you know, in a life that is less stressful. That doesn't mean that we need princess treatment. Well, maybe I do. You know, I think there are times when we should be treated like a princess or treat ourselves that way. But I think I think I've been seeing a lot of videos about, you know, what is it, the soft life or... Oh, yeah.

Well, there's all kinds of things. There's soft girl. There's tomato girl. I cannot keep trying. Don't even get me started on this. It's like every week there's a new trend on TikTok. It's tomato girl versus vanilla girl. And I don't even know what these aesthetics are.

It's like crazy. But I think it's based on the same concept, right? And it's just recognizing that we need to be more aware of why we are different, you know, why men and women are different. And that's a good thing. So I think it comes from a good place. But that's not a reason to be lazy and passive and don't do anything, you know. It's just a matter of learning what you're better at and learning what your strengths and weaknesses are.

I heard somebody saying like redefining what a gold dig or what. was like a gold digger is not necessarily someone who is looking for, you know, a rich man or whatever. A gold digger can be considered a woman who is completely lazy and has nothing going for her and expects to be taken care of without contributing anything to the relationship. Yeah. And I think that that's very valid, you know, that we don't want to go so far as to say, like, okay, we're just going to be a bump on a pickle and not do anything in this relationship and expect everything to be handed to us. But we do need to recognize what our needs are.

And sometimes that's doing less and not having as much stress in our life. What is your most cut-throat dating advice that is not for the weakhearted? Something that people always get wrong is that when it comes to masculinity and femininity, they are looking for someone who's 100% masculine or feminine. I think that that is a really dangerous myth to have. people don't understand that that's a dysfunction, like being too extremely masculine or too extremely feminine, that we're really looking for someone who is integrated, who has found that kind of that calibration, the balance between masculine and feminine.

And so a woman needs to have boundaries, integrity. She needs to have accountability, self-discipline. But those are masculine qualities. And I mean, people are very confused about this whole concept. And men also, they need to have the softer side. And the reason this is, and this maybe is more helpful for people to understand why, if you want to think of like the old book, men are from Mars, women are from Venus, we speak different languages and we need to connect based on understanding each other. And so that other side of us, which, you know, Carl Jung would describe as like the

anima and the animus, that other side is what helps us connect and understand the other gender. So a lot of people in the traditional Christian world, they reject the idea of men having a feminine side. But what they describe is the feminine side. It's just like a semantics issue. So men need to recognize that emotional intelligence, it's healthy for them, that they need to have that because otherwise they're not going to connect with themselves properly and they're not going to be able to, you know, be able to express their emotions, regulate their emotions. but then they're not going to be able to connect with women. And so you have to develop that other side of you in order to be a full healthy human. So somebody wants to hire you to read their text message screenshots or any other things. What can people hire you to help them do? Well, I love working with people who are single and trying to figure out the dating world,

but I also work with people who are coupled. But I think the process of teaching them the vetting system is so eye-opening because it doesn't just apply to dating. It applies to like a whole world paradigm, just the way that you see things. You can vet Airbnbs. You can vet, you know, places that you work or places that you live and knowing what matters most to you, what your values are, what your goals are, how you can align all of that in your life so that you can be happy and healthy and stable. And a lot of people, it's new to them, understanding life in this way. So really teaching someone the vetting system from the ground up.

So even before you're dating anyone, like when you're just single, friendly, and social. And so where can they find you on Instagram? At Taylor Burroughs on Instagram. And they can always just ask for a vetting call. And we can talk about if we're a good fit, they can vet me, I can vet them. And we can see if we're a good fit to work together. Dr. Burroughs, you are so fun and smart and insightful. And I feel like I learned so much.

Thank you for coming on the spillover. Oh, you're welcome. I've had a blast. Thank you very much, Alex. If I had to guess, I bet her hottest take with my audience is that she suggests living together before marriage. Do you agree or disagree? Also, I would just love to discuss any, like, revelations that you may have had during this podcast, maybe when it comes to dating relationships in the cute service Facebook group. Make sure that you answer the security questions correctly to get in, but you can find the link in the show notes below. If you liked this episode, you will probably like an episode that I did in season two.

with celebrity and billionaire matchmaker Gina Hendrix. That's season two episode 13. It's from June of 2022. My Christmas wish is that you will leave a five-star review for every episode until the end of the year. Please don't forget. It takes less than 10 seconds. I have a side question for you this week, by the way.

This is like when I say side, it's totally like a rabbit hole and sidecut thing. But while we're wrapping up and thinking forward for this podcast in the next year, do you like the podcast picture of me that we use, like the sunglasses, the black and white with the sparkles, or should we do a rebrand next year? Like, should I totally do something different for that picture? I'm trying to decide. Next week, I am interviewing the man who was the face of child abuse in the 90s. He was the victim

of the worst child abuse case in California history and has grown up to be a bestselling author sharing his story. New episodes drop Thursdays at 9 p.m. Pacific or Fridays at midnight Eastern. if you are on Eastern Time. And you can find these episodes anywhere. Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And of course, you can watch them on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel. I'm Alex Clark, and this is the spillover.

Love you mean it. Bye.