Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - Why Your Kids Won't Obey & How To Turn It Around | Parenting Expert Ginger Hubbard

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

If your home feels like a battlefield and you’re done repeating yourself for the hundredth time—this episode will change the way you think about discipline.Bestselling author and podcast host Ginger Hubbard cuts through all the parenting noise. We break down why so many parents feel powerless, why kids are running the show, and how common strategies like bribing, threatening, or over-explaining might actually make things worse. This isn’t about blaming your child—it’s about understanding the system we’ve been taught and learning how to take control with smarter, more effective approaches.Thank you to our sponsors!TAYLOR DUKES WELLNESS: Use code ALEXCLARK for 10% off your purchaseCOZY EARTH: Use code ALEX for 40% offCROWDHEALTH: Use code CULTURE to get your first three months for only $99/monthA’DEL NATURAL COSMETICS: Use code ALEX for 25% off first-time ordersPALEOVALLEY: Use code ALEX for 15% off your first orderJOOVV: Get an exclusive discount on your first red light therapy orderOur Guest:Ginger HubbardGinger's Links:WEBSITEPODCASTFACEBOOKINSTAGRAM👗 Get Alex’s freshest fashion picks and exclusive guest recommendations—delivered straight to your inbox!Sign up for the newsletter HERE:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WEEKLY NEWSLETTER SIGNUP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FOLLOW ALEX:Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠@cultureapothecary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @realalexclark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @yoalexrapz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @RealAlexClark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcast |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to ‘Culture Apothecary’ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. New episodes drop 6pm PST/ 9pm EST every Monday and Thursday.DISCLAIMER: This content is for informational purposes only and is not medical advice. Always talk to a qualified healthcare professional for any health-related questions or decisions.

How can a mom who feels completely overwhelmed, her house is in chaos? It's been a very long time, maybe even years since her kids really respected and listened to her. How does she know where to start? Some people may have been listening to this and they're, oh, man, I've just completely blown it. It's too late. There's no starting over now. But you absolutely can. Just sit your kids down, no matter how old they are in an age-appropriate way,

just say something like, you know, honey, I have been reading the Bible and praying, and I have not been disciplining you the way that I should. God's word says that I'm supposed to train you to obey and to live in wisdom, and I've been allowing you to disobey and live foolishly. Will you forgive me for that? So just apologize, ask forgiveness, and start fresh. You know, the Bible says that God's mercies are new every morning, and great is his faithfulness. If your house feels more like a hostage negotiation than a home, and you're tired of counting

to three, repeating yourself and wondering when your kids stop taking you seriously, this episode is going to change your life? What if the problem is it your child with the discipline strategies that we've all been told to use? Today's conversation is with bestselling author Ginger Hubbard of Don't Make Me Count to Three and Wise Words for Moms, also host of the Parenting with Ginger Hubbard podcast. She goes straight for the heart of why so many parents feel powerless, why kids are running the show, and how well-intentioned methods like bribing, threatening, and endless reasoning are actually making things worse. You can watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or CulturePothecary on Spotify.

If you are enjoying these episodes on Discipline in the New Year, leave a five-star review. Please welcome bestselling author, Ginger Hubbard, to Culture Apothecary. Why do you believe that children today are losing respect for their parents? And what do you think is really contributing to this massive disobedience epidemic we're seeing? Well, Alex, you know as well as I do that we live in a nation that defies God at every point, including child training. And it's not that parents don't want to raise obedient, respectable kids. I think every parent wants that, but a lot of parents, I think, fail to achieve those results. And I believe that reason is twofold.

One is that in an attempt to get their kids to obey, many parents have adopted faulty child training methods that fail to reach the heart. They've kind of developed this philosophy that if they can get their children to act right, to behave, that they're raising them the right way. But there is far more to parenting than getting our children to act right. We have to get them to think right and to be motivated. out of a love of virtue, a love for what's right, a love for God, rather than just a fear of punishment. So failure to reach the heart is the first problem.

And then the second problem is that many parents are just not following the instructions in the instruction manual. You know, I once heard Roy Lesson say he compared God's instructions to parents to an owner's manual for a new appliance. You know, think about it. When you buy a new appliance, the manufacturer provides you with an instruction. manual tells you how to use the appliance and how to keep it in the best working order. If customers experience problems with that product, then they're encouraged to contact the manufacturer for repairs. And it's the same with families. The family was God's idea. He brought it into being. And in the Bible, he has given us instructions for how it operates best. And so when we experience problems

in raising our kids and we don't know what to do, we're encouraged to contact him through prayer. And he promises in James 15 that when we ask him for, wisdom that he will give it to us. Do you think a lot of parents want to be more firm, but they're just really afraid of coming across as unloving to their children? I do, but the most loving thing that we can do is to train our children in the wisdom and instruction of the Lord. If we don't do that, that's an injustice to our children. They need us to be the guide. They need us to help drive the foolishness out of their hearts and replace that foolishness with wisdom. And so a lot of times we tend to coddle their emotions, but we're sacrificing that on the altar of really training them to have

self-control with their emotions, to learn how to process their emotions and to rightly respond to their emotions in a way that's going to benefit them and people around them, going to benefit them for life. And so we don't need to be afraid to bring our children up in the discipline instruction of the Lord, because if we don't do that, that's an injustice to our kids. You emphasize that discipline is about reaching the heart not controlling behavior. Can you explain what that means biblically? Like I said, we always want to get past that outward behavior and help our children understand that it is the sins of the heart that drives that outward behavior. You know, when my kids were little, I remember being shocked by some of the things that would come out of their mouths and some of the things that they would do. And I would, you know, ask that question that so many parents asked today, why do you act like that? But after a closer look at the word of God, I began to realize I was asking the wrong question. In Romans, it says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And in Matthew 1234, Jesus said, for the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. In other words, there's merit to that old saying.

What's down in the well comes up in the bucket. Our sin does not begin with our mouths or our actions. It begins with our hearts. And it starts a whole lot sooner than we might think. King David proclaimed, surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. And so when parents really just begin to grasp just the origin of sin and the total depravity of the human nature in general, we no longer have to question why our children sinned. So I began to learn, instead of saying, why does my child sin? I would ask, when my child sins, how might I point him to the fact that he is a sinner in need of a Savior, just like I am? How can I really help him understand and live in the transformational power of Christ?

So that is why we want to get past that outward behavior and help our children recognize what is going on in their hearts. Because when they recognize and take ownership for the sin that's in their own heart, that's the first step to helping them recognize their need for Christ. I think one important thing about you, which I think is important for the audience to know, is that you have multiple grown children, late 20s, early 30s. when it comes to giving parenting advice, I think that that's important because one of the competing parenting philosophies that you're seeing, even in the Christian parenting space, is this gentle parenting. Now, they argue there's a difference between permissive parenting and gentle parenting. It's different. I don't think it is. But a lot of those parents who promote those ideologies, I think, have kids that are not even in double digits yet.

Right. That's something I've noticed. So I love hearing from, people that have wisdom that have successfully reared, you know, now adult children. So I just think that's important to know about you. What is your opinion on this gentle parenting stuff that's been popping up all over the Christian parenting space? I think it's sad because the kids that I see that I have personally been around that are being parented with parents who are using this gentle parenting philosophy, they're not happy kids. They're miserable. They're living their lives with no self-control. They're never satisfied. They're used to getting their way. And when they don't get their way, they're having complete meltdowns. And that's sad because they're not enjoying life.

They're some of the most unhappy kids I've ever been around. Kids that are trained in self-control and obedience and to honor the Lord, they're happy kids. And so I just think when you compare children who are being raised in the wisdom and discipline and instruction of the Lord, they're happy, joyful kids that are enjoying life and people around them are getting the blessing of enjoying them too. And so I just think it's an injustice when we don't obey the Lord's commands to train our children and bring them up in the wisdom and instruction of the Lord and instead just letting them live however they want to live. That's just not, it's not a blessing to kids and it's not a blessing to others and it doesn't glorify God. How can parents start to view misbehavior as an opportunity

and not an interruption. Anytime our children mess up and blow it, we have two options. We can either be frustrated and think, well, you know, I've got to take time to do this and to train them, or we can view it as a precious opportunity to train them in righteousness. The Bible says that parents are to train their children in righteousness. And so when we view those opportunities, every time our children misbehave, when we look at that as this is a precious opportunity to point them to the truths and the wisdom of God. word, then we are going to be far more righteous in our training. We're going to be eager and joyful

all the time for those opportunities rather than angry and frustrated. Now, I know better than anyone that's so much easier said than done when they do those behaviors that are really getting under our skin. It's hard to view it like that. But when we look at that as this is a fantastic opportunity to point them to the fact that they are sinners just like I am in need of a Savior. And here is this wisdom from God's word. And when we pray and ask him to help us, the Holy Spirit helps us to live in ways that honor him and that bring him the glory he deserves. And so we want to view them is those precious opportunities, not as frustrating moments of inconvenience when they misbehave. How do you explain the difference between reactive parenting and proactive parenting?

By taking those moments to not just be frustrated and saying, you know, you're doing this, you're getting on my nerves. I'm busy doing. something else, you just need to go to your room. That is reactive parenting. Proactive parenting is, okay, let's talk through this. Let's get past this outward behavior that you're demonstrating. Let's talk about what is at the root of that outward behavior. What is going on in your heart? And then we can look to scripture because God is not just concerned with our outward behavior. He is always concerned with the heart. So we want to learn how to do that, how to get past that outward behavior, help our children recognize what is going on in their hearts, and then we're able to address it from a Christ-centered perspective,

because the Bible really is the ultimate instruction manual to parents that gives us everything we need to know for raising our kids in the ways of the Lord. But we have to know how to get past that outward behavior, like whining, for example. You know, a lot of times parents will say, well, I don't see whining in the Bible. So how do I get past that outward behavior? And where do I go in scripture to look up how? to address this from a biblical perspective with my kids. Well, I had a kid that whined, and so I can definitely relate to that. That's one that can really get under our skin. One of those, you know, just go to your room. I don't want to hear this anymore. But being

intentional means how can we talk about this from a heart-oriented perspective? So my daughter, Alex, she gives me permission to share stuff about her. And my son does too, just for the benefit of giving personal examples. So they're so sweet to let me, they say it makes them famous. Even when they're telling them all the bad things, they're like, oh, we still like for you to about us, it makes us famous. But so Alex really struggled with whining. And so let's just, let's just do like a common example. Let's say that Alex comes into the kitchen. And instead of asking for a cup of juice and a normal tone of voice, she whines for it. And so I want to address that from a biblical perspective. So I might address it from the issue of self-control. I might say,

honey, are you asking for juice with self-control? No, sweetie. You're not. God says that we are to have self-control, even with our voices. And so, what I'm going to do, because I love you so much, I want to help you get that self-control. So what I did for that is I had this cute little kitchen timer. You can get them on Amazon, like ladybugs and little mice and stuff like that. They're so cute. So we let her help pick one out to make it fun. And I said, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to set this timer for two minutes.

Or if she was three years old, three minutes. I would kind of go with however many minutes their age is. So I'm going to set the timer for three minutes. And when that timer goes off, then you can come back and ask for juice. the right way with your self-controlled voice. And so, see, I didn't preach a sermon to her. I didn't use words that she couldn't understand. God's word says were to have self-control. So I just reproved her in a way that she could comprehend. And then most important, Alex, and this is an area where we a lot of times fall short, I have her come back. I give her the opportunity to ask

for juice the right way with her self-controlled voice. And, you know, it's the same with older kids. whining, my goodness, it seems like whining today has become an absolute epidemic in America. Kids don't just whine when they want something now. They whine just as a general means of communicating. And so even like say that you're in the minivan and your child is strapped in the back seat and they're talking to you, not asking for something necessarily, but just talking to you in a whiny voice. Same sort of thing. Honey, are you talking with your self-controlled voice? No, you're not. God wants you to have self-control. even with your voice. So let's set that timer. If you don't have a timer, now we have the luxury of using our cell phones.

Right. Set the timer on your cell phone. Let them watch it count down and then come back and have that conversation. And I know the first question, probably a lot of people that are listening and watching right now would say is, yeah, well, that might work for your kid, but you don't know my kid. My kid is stubborn. My kid wouldn't come back and ask for juice the right way. My kid wouldn't come back and have that conversation from the back seat. And so, well, natural consequences. They don't get that cup of juice. They don't get to have that conversation with mom and dad until they're willing to communicate with self-control. I think it's really a blessing that basically all of my best friends have like four or more kids each at this point. And so I'm learning a lot from them, even though I'm not a parent yet, just do's and don'ts and what works and what doesn't. And so one of them was invited to something recently. Their family, their kids were invited to another family's house with kids. And this other family, they had a child that, I don't know, she had, you know, pre-conceived. ideas of like how things were going to go and then it didn't go that way. And so she was just really

throwing a fit at this party in front of everybody because things weren't going the way she wanted. And so I asked my friend about that. I was like, so what do you think about that? Like, what do you think that parent did wrong? Because I'm like thinking of myself and like, what would I do in that situation if that was my kid? And she said, well, I just think that there wasn't enough proactive parenting going on. So before the party happened, she should have sat her kids down and said, hey, these people are coming over. This is what's going on. You know, we're going to try to do this, but things can change.

And so if they change, you know, what's our attitude going to be if things change? And these kids don't want to play this game or whatever. And I just thought that was interesting, you know, in terms of the proactive versus reactive parenting. And I said, so what would be reactive? And she said, well, you know, her kid is freaking out. And then she's just responding like, hey, like, calm down. You know, you need to go in another room. Like, that's reactive.

Like, you didn't prepare for the situation. And she said same with like before you go into a grocery store with your kids. It's, hey, we're not putting things in the cart. We're getting in and out. If we're good, maybe I'll allow you to have a treat at the end. But we're not doing this. We are doing this. We're going here.

We're in and out. You know, setting expectations. Do you think that that can be helpful? Absolutely. I think that is brilliant to talk with them ahead of time. You're preparing them that these things could happen and what is going to be the right way to respond to this. So we're going into the grocery store. And you are going to be, if they're young enough, sitting in the cart.

Are you allowed? Is it okay for you to grab things off the shelves? No, it's not. What would that be if you take something off the shelf? That would be disobeying. And so making those clear expectations, that also helps us to know how to respond. Because if you set clear expectations, they understand those expectations, but then they choose to disobey, they're choosing a consequence. And so it's a cut and dry. This was clear. I gave you clear instructions. You understood and you have chosen to disobey. And now scripture says that when you choose to disobey, I don't have a choice. I have to give you a consequence because I love you too much to allow you to disobey. You know I will not gatekeep anything that makes my mornings easier and actually taste good. That's why I've been putting the Taylor Diggs Wellness, strawberries and cream protein in my smoothie almost every single day for the last year. And I swear it is elite. Like if strawberry milk and a clean ingredient list had a super hot baby, it's bone broth based so you're getting collagen naturally for hair, skin, nails, joints, gut health. Totally dairy-free, no junkie fillers, zero weird aftertaste, organic. You get 20 grams

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of my morning routine. 10 minutes while I'm easing into the day and I genuinely feel the difference when I stay consistent, which is really the key there. Better energy, better recovery, better sleep. Jove also makes it easy whether you want a targeted device or a full body setup. It fits into real life. I've got mine in my closet. I pull it out. I sit in my bathroom. I like to do it in a room that doesn't have windows because I want it to be as dark as possible and I just flip the red light on. If you want to try juve for yourself, go to juve.com. That's juve.com slash Alex. Juve, J-O-O-V-V-com slash Alex. Some exclusions may apply. You've talked about common mistakes that parents are making today when it comes to discipline bribing, threatening, counting to three, repeating instructions. Can you talk

about that? Yeah. So you actually just mentioned one right there, which would be bribing. I actually saw this mom in Walmart and her kid was maybe, I don't know, he looked like he was maybe two and a half or three years old. And he was kind of, you know, grabbing stuff off the shelves. And she told him, he had gotten away from her and she told him to come to her. And instead of obeying, he took off running in the other direction. And so in desperation, this mom yells down the aisle of Walmart, come to mommy and I'll give you a sucker. And that's bribing. So immediately, this child goes from hearing impaired to exceptional hearing. And he comes very quickly to mom's side. But you see, Alex, that's not really training for obedience. That's rewarding the child for foolishness, for stubbornness.

for disobedience, giving them a reward in order to get them to obey, that encourages them in selfishness. Because their motive for obeying is, yeah, sure, I'll obey for what I can get. But that's a selfish motive. Children should be taught to obey because it's right and because it pleases God. So what should she have done when the kid is running away and not listening when she's saying to come to her? Right. So or in the grocery store, same thing. You know, you tell them they're sitting in the cart. You've already gone through this. You're not allowed to grab something off the shelf. if they do it anyway. If they have directly disobeyed, then there needs to be a consequence. And when they're little, I tell parents this like, well, it's such an inconvenience.

I mean, there I am in the grocery store and I have this full cart of groceries. Well, it only took a time or two of me going up to the cashier and saying, hey, would you mind putting my milk and eggs back? And I'm going to come back just as soon as I can, but I've got to deal with something right now. And then we got in the car. We drove to the back of the parking lot to where we could deal with their disobedience in private in a way that. doesn't embarrass or humiliate them out in public. And then I come back. And then my kids learned very quickly that my word is my word, whether we're in the grocery store or Walmart or even at Grandma's house. So it's possible that a lot of modern parents are putting convenience over

this opportunity given to parents as God to instill righteousness in our children. Yep. And so a lot of times, especially when we're out in public, it may seem more convenient to to ignore or look over that behavior. But when we do that, again, we're doing the child an injustice. It may be inconvenient for us, but taking the time to train them in what is right, that's going to be more beneficial to them. If we neglect training them just because it's inconvenient for us, that's going to cause a lot of problems later on because then they learn that our word is not our word when we're out in public. And so we have to inconvenience ourselves. And when we're willing to do that, to take that moment and walk away and train them in what is right,

we're teaching them that our word is our word. And Matthew, it says, simply let your yes be yes and your no be no. And so that means all the time that they need to obey. And so another one that I see a lot is threatening. And that one usually comes after we have repeated our instruction several times to know of Elle. And so we pull out the big guns. You know, something like, honey, if you don't, if you don't start sharing your toys right now, I'm going to send them all off to kids who will share. But this teaches them that mom doesn't mean what she says. You know, how many of our parents in an attempt to get us to appreciate our toys talked about the kids on the other side of the world who don't have any toys, but how many of our parents

actually followed through with that threat and boxed up, all of our toys taped up, boxed up, and shipped them off to 10 bucks too, probably not too many. And if they did, they're following through. That's not a threat. Yeah. And let me just say this too. You know, I'm spitting out all of these answers here, and it may sound like that I always did everything right, but I didn't. I wanted to be a good mom. So I studied scripture. I read the good parenting books. I even wrote a couple of parenting books, but don't think for one second that I didn't fall into some of these things myself sometimes, like threatening. I'll give you one instance comes to mind when my kids were little. And every Tuesday night, they had the blessing and joy of spending the night

with my parents. They loved spending the night with Nana and Papa, so that was a super treat for them and for my parents. And so it was a Tuesday afternoon. I homeschooled my kids. They had just finished doing their schoolwork. And I said, you guys need to get your rooms cleaned up. And they were just not obeying me. They were not doing what I told them to do. They were procrastinating. And I was procrastinating in training them because I was busy doing something or I don't know what was going on that day, but I just wasn't taking the time to train them the way that I needed to. And so I kept repeating my instructions. And then what typically comes after that is throw out that thread. And so I threw out the threat. I said, if you guys don't hurry up and get these rooms

cleaned up, y'all are not spending the night when Nana and Papa tonight. But Alex, I knew good and well, I wasn't about to forfeit my night alone with no kids in order to follow through with that threat. And I didn't. And another one is counting to three. Oh, my goodness, that's why I titled my first parenting book, don't make me count to three. Because that's another one that we see all around us. We see these parents say, you know, if you don't do this, by the time I count to three, you're going to get it. And then they start their count. One, the child doesn't move. Two, the child still doesn't move. Two and a half. And so it goes. But the thing is, children will rise to the standard that the parents set. If we don't expect our children to obey until we count to three, they're probably

not going to obey until we start counting. And so why not expect instant obedience? It's so much easier. It's so much less confusing. It is definitely more biblical. And you know what? If my small child is about to step off the curb into a busy street, I don't want to have to count to three before they obey. So training children to quickly obey that really should be the standard. And so we need to be aware of things like repeating our instructions two or three times, bribing, threatening, giving them to the count of three. Because those things really draw us away from teaching our children to obey the way that God has called them to. But I think what a lot of parents listening are probably thinking is, okay, Ginger, but how do I get them to obey immediately like that? Especially if you are somebody who was really struggling with discipline, let's say you've got a three, four, five, six year old. And so, you know, they're a little older. This has been going on. This like repeated disobedience. How in the world now are we going to start getting them to listen on the first time? Well, that's where consequences come in to play. And consequences definitely have their place, especially. with younger children. They need to know that there are consequences for sin. There are consequences

for disobedience. But there's so much more to discipline than just consequences. If all we do is administer consequences, that's all they learn, that there are consequences for sin. And yes, that is a great lesson. But an even greater lesson is helping them understand that higher calling of living in ways that bring God the glory he deserves. But when kids disobeysauble, or when they tattle or when they whine or when they are disrespectful or when they don't share, no matter what they're dealing with, I always encourage three steps. And I know a lot of people like, well, I don't like these three-step plans, but it really is a very biblical three-step plan. And so what I encourage, regardless of what they're struggling with, is first to ask heart-probing

questions, that's step one. And, you know, Alex, if you think about it, that is the example that Jesus said. Think about in all the stories in Scripture when someone did something wrong. Jesus didn't point his finger in their face and say, this is what you did wrong and this is what you should have done instead. So often, Jesus would ask heart probing questions. And in order for the people to answer those questions, they had to evaluate themselves because Jesus, he was a skilled heart prober. He knew how to ask those questions in such a way that the people would have to take their focus off of the circumstances and situations going on around them and onto the sin in their own heart. And so the first step is heart-proving questions.

The second step is what to put off. That is, what does God's word say about that particular behavior and what it can lead to if it continues? And then step three is what to put on, how to replace what is wrong with what is right in accordance with God's word, because that is where truth and wisdom is. God's words. So let's say, you know, the situation is hitting, sibling hitting another sibling. Can you do those three things in that scenario? I can. But I can't do it off the top of my head. I have created this little wise words for mom's chart because it's hard to remember all of these different things and to go to scripture. So what I did when my kids were little and we'll get to the hitting. But I would, I wrote down all the things that they struggled with. And it was usually just two or three things at one time. They're not going to struggle with all things, you know, at the same time.

And so it started with like two or three behaviors. One was disobeying because whose kids, you know, doesn't struggle with disobeying. And then I thought through heart probing questions for that and for tattling and for not sharing their, things like that. And so I wrote down a couple of heart probing questions. The heart probing questions helps to get to the heart of what is behind that outward behavior, like where we talked about whining, selfishness. The Bible addresses selfishness. Now whining can also be an issue of idolatry, but, you know, a four-year-old is kind of hard to explain what idolatiness. So I just address it as self-control. But once we know what's at the heart, by looking at those heart-proving questions, then I went to Scripture and I said, what does God's word say to put off? What does it say to put on? Because in Ephesians, it says that we are to put off our old selves and put on our new selves that's created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. And so I just, I looked all of those things up ahead of time that's being proactive so

that I'm ready as those things came about. I was quick on the draw. And so I had my little wise words for mom's chart. I punched a hole in it and had it hanging in my kitchen as a quick reference flip chart to use when my sweet little angels grew horns and I was at a loss for words. It helped me so much to have that right at my fingertips, those answers, how to get to the heart, what to put off and what to put on. Because a lot of times when I was in the heat of the moment, you know, maybe I'm upset about something. Maybe I have a lot going on. Maybe I'm busy. Maybe I'm, you know, talking with someone on the phone. Those are the times that I would find myself relying on my words and my wisdom instead of God's word and his wisdom. And that was never beneficial for me or my kids. So I created that little wise

words for moms chart. It had just maybe five behaviors on it 20 years ago. And then as I talked to more moms, they're like, well, what about tattling? Well, what about biting? Well, what about, you know, all of these different things? What about hitting? And so I kept adding to. And so, I kept adding to it and now there's 32 behaviors on that chart. And so it helps a lot of moms. A lot of moms refer to it as their cheat sheet. And this is free? It's not. I have them available on my website. It's called Wise Words for Moms. And we just actually recently expanded it to teachers because so many teachers in the classroom are like, I really wish that you would adapt this and make it user-friendly for the classroom as well. That way moms and teachers and dads were all teaching

the same things to our kids. And so a revised expanded edition just came out. a few months ago. And one of the ones that we added was biting at the request of teachers, biting. Cell phone use. Hitting. Oh, I didn't think about that one. That would have been good. But yeah, biting, hitting, um, bullying, excessive talking, obsessive crushes, all the things

that are dealt with. Obsessive crushes. Sessive crushes. Guilty. That would be me. That's funny. So, yeah, so I would, I would love to walk through how, how that little cheat sheet is is what we all like to call it.

Yeah, let's do that. Okay, so Alex, did you mention biting or hitting? Hitting. Okay. Well, I actually have those combined on the chart. So step one is heart-probing questions. Very simple, because these are little kids that are doing this. And so it needs to be very simple questions that they can ponder and answer. So does biting or hitting show kindness? No, it doesn't. And I also encourage parents, too, and teachers that if the kids don't answer, some of them say, well, I just clam up and don't answer. Then you have a whole other issue of disobedience is going on. Well, I encourage just don't get into a power struggle to school ahead. answer for them. But just simple heart-probbing question, does biting or hitting show kindness? No, honey, it doesn't. And then is it loving or hateful to hurt others? It's hateful to hurt others. And so just go ahead and answer for them instead of getting in that power struggle. That helps them to at least ponder. Even if they don't answer, they're answering those questions in their hearts. And that, again, is helping them to recognize the sin in their heart, which helps them to

recognize their need for Christ. So step two is what to put off. Hate. Love does not delight. in bringing harm to others. And that's Romans 1310. And then what are they to put on? Love. Love brings good to others. Love is gentle, patient, and kind. And then like from a practical standpoint, you can talk about what did God create our hands to do, to hug, to high five, to be gentle and kind, not to hit and to bring harm. And so you can just talk about it from that perspective. And then there's so many on here that, you know, know, like I said, all kids are not going to struggle with at one time, but obviously disobeying. I'm usually pretty safe with that one. Every kid is going to struggle with disobeying. So, you know, just like the kid that we talked about earlier that was in Walmart, you said, well, what should that mom have done when the kid takes off in Walmart and doesn't come when she calls him?

Well, very simple questions, even for a two and a half, three-year-old, very simple heart-probing questions. Honey, are you obeying or are you disobeying? Simple question. Again, it helps him, it helps him, to take ownership. Well, I'm disobeyed. If they don't answer, honey, you disobeyed. Next question. How did you disobey? If they don't answer, well, sweetie, I told you to come to me and you didn't, and that's disobeying. Oh, one thing I taught my kids that I also have on the chart when they were really little is I could ask my kids, how does God want you to obey? And I could hold up three fingers, and they knew to say all the way, right away, and with a happy heart. And that pretty much covers complete obedience. And so I started teaching that a very young age. I mean, as soon as they popped out,

it's like mama, dad, all the way right away with a happy heart. They can learn that. If you just keep on saying, that's how they learn these things is by teaching it to them. So at a very young age, I taught them that biblical obedience, the way that God wants them to obey is all the way right away and with a happy heart. And then for what to put off for disobeying, obviously we put off disobedience. And I would say something like what I have written here, honey, when you disobey me, you're disobeying God and it will not go well with you. And see, that scripture, it says that it does not go well for children when they live in disobedience. And one thing, there was always a consequence for direct disobedience with my kids and our home, especially when they were, you know, really learning. What does it mean to obey? And so before I administered a consequence for direct disobedience, I would always say, I love you too much to allow you to disobey. So that way they knew that it was love that motivated. me to discipline them because I do. I love my kids too much to allow them to live their lives in foolish ways. So put off disobedience. What are they to put on obedience? And so I would say

Colossians 320, it says that children are to obey their parents in everything because this is right. And so see, this doesn't take that long. We talked about how it can be an inconvenience, you know, to take time to train our kids. But when we have it right in front of us, this just helped me so much to be more consistent in moments where I may not have been consistent. I mean, that took for disobeying. That took, what, less than a minute for us to go through, heart-probing questions, what to put off and what to put on. This is kind of designed more for younger kids, but all you've got to do is just reward it to match the maturity level of older kids. But hopefully it's the younger kids that are biting it. Hopefully we don't have 15-year-olds that are doing that.

And so you're doing this spiel in Walmart and then you're saying now, because you disobeyed, there's a consequence, and then you're taking them to the parking lot? Right. If they're older, they can wait until you get home. They're old enough and mature enough to wait until you get home for a consequence. But when they're really little, it's not good to wait because they may forget and then you're having to bring the whole thing back up. Like I said earlier, there were several times, like when we were in the grocery store

where they disobeyed, or maybe we were at a restaurant and they were disobeying, where I had to either leave a full cart of groceries or I had to leave my hot bread with honey butter and it's going to get cold. I know. Talk about not wanting to take the time to do it. Right. But there were several times that we had to leave and we had to go deal with that. And then my kids learned. So instead of battling that over and over and over for years and years and years, the more consistent we are when they're little, the quicker they learn that our yes means yes and our no means no and that there are consequences when you disobey, the quicker they learn that, the sooner they're going to respond to that. And so taking the time to be inconvenienced when they're little is going to save years of

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administering consequences when they don't obey, but only God can change their hearts. And so that is why we bathe all of our efforts in prayer for God to use our obedience in lovingly and gently being consistent and diligent to train our children in the wisdom of the Lord to administer consequences when they don't, to point them to their need for Christ. And then we pray for God to do the work in their hearts as only he can do. Would this chart replace reasoning? with children, young children? I think as kids get older, it is certainly appropriate and even encouraged for them to ask questions if they don't understand. You know, what is your reason behind this decision? Can we talk about that in a respectful way? But I don't think it's wise to reason

with small children. You know, let's think about that. You know, maybe mom ask her six-year-old. Honey, don't you want to come and eat lunch now? No, that's okay, mom. I think I'd rather play with my cars. Well, sweetie, your hot dog's going to get cold if you don't come and eat it now. That's okay, Mom. I think I'd rather play with my cars. Well, honey, I thought if you would come and eat your lunch right now, we might have time to go to the park after. You see, in that situation, instead of the mom simply telling her small child what she expected and requiring that obedience, she's trying to talk her child into obeying by reasoning.

Don't you want to come do this? It's going to get cold. All of these reasons. But when parents try to talk their child into obeying and reasoning with a small child, they're putting that child in a position that they are not mature or responsible enough to handle. They're erasing that line of authority that God is placed between the parent and the child. And they're bringing that child up to a peer level with the parent. And that can cause confusion because they're not mature and responsible enough to carry that. So the parent needs to be the parent and the child needs to be the child.

And so we need to give clear instructions and then require our children to respond and obey to those instructions. Otherwise, we're sending mixed signals and they're going to be confused as to when should we obey and when should we not. When I hear parents talking about, you know, their kids not obeying and it's chaotic and like that example I gave to you of like somebody who's saying they've tried 100 different things. To me, the biggest thing that jumps out is inconsistency. You're doing all these, you're trying all these different things and seeing what sticks. That seems inconsistent to me. And I feel like maybe that could be contributing to your kid not listening. Yeah, I think so too. Consistency is key because when we are consistent, children learn the law of the harvest. They learn that they reap what they sow, that there are consequences when they do something wrong. And I think it's okay to tell them what those consequences are going to be. So for direct disobedience, we had this consequence. For whining, there was the consequence of your, going to have to wait two or three minutes until you can come back and ask the right way or communicate the right way. So consequences can differ, but I think that we need to set clear boundaries. When we set clear boundaries and our children know what those boundaries are, they're going to be

more secure because they are going to know, I have a choice here. This is a clear boundary. I can either choose to obey or choose to disobey. What should a parent do with when they're disciplining their child, the kid is smirking or being like, that doesn't even hurt. Well, again, it goes back to God changing the heart. You know, we can do all that we're required to do and we should, but we also have to pray that the Lord will change the heart. But you can certainly, I actually have in the chart, defiant looks, defiant attitudes. Honey, are you obeying with your attitude? Ooh. No, honey, you're not. So let me find that one because I forget. This is why I have my cheat sheet, because I can't remember all of these. This is great. I want to download this now.

hanging up and just start memorizing it for the future. So for defiant attitudes, defiant look, again, is are you obeying or, are you obeying or disobeying with your attitude? And then here's another question. Are you truly obeying when you obey with an unhappy heart? Is that true obedience when it's not really coming from the heart? It's not. And then defiance, what to put off. Here's good scripture. Everything is based on scripture in here. So I actually give the scripture passages, but defiant attitude, defiant look. What they're to put off is defiance. And this is scripture, A hardened face reflects a hardened heart. And here's the passage.

It's Proverbs 2814. Whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble. And then Proverbs 121 says, it is foolish for you to despise instruction. And then what are they to put on? They're to put on submission. Proverbs 10, 8 says, The wise and heart accepts commands.

And Proverbs 15, 13 says, A happy heart makes the face cheerful. And so, again, it's just taking them to Scripture. And then we know when I was consistent to go to the Word of God, to ask a couple heart-probing questions, to teach them what does God words say about putting off and what to put on? When I laid my head down at night, I knew that I had done everything that I could do, all that God had required me to do. Yeah. And then I would pray, Lord, take my efforts and bless them because only you can do a work in their hearts. And this is why I think this all really goes back to what you talked about in the very, very beginning, which is total depravity.

and understanding that your kid is a sinner. They're not good inside. They're not born good inside. When you are saying, I can have peace knowing I did everything that I have to do and that ultimately there's a heart change and that's between my child and the Lord and them becoming saved or not, I just think that's key that a lot of parents forget. Yeah.

And, you know, another good thing about understanding that truth, that no matter what we do, really only God can change their hearts. What I love about that is that it helps us from being prideful when our children make foolish decisions and maybe they grow up and don't turn out well, but it also keeps us from feeling defeated when they don't. Because we have obeyed and we have prayed and the rest is up to God to change their heart and to them to respond to the Lord. So how do you actually get children to implement the principles being taught and not just hear them? By requiring them to practice the biblical alternative to that sinful behavior.

It's never enough to just train our kids and what not to do. We always have to take it a step further and train them what to do. That's what training them in wisdom. That's what it means when the Bible says for parents to train their children in righteousness. And we stop our training so often at telling our kids what not to do. Like say that an older child, we've been talking a lot about younger kids, say that an older child speaks disrespectfully to their mom or dad. And we say, that was disrespectful.

You shouldn't talk to me like that. No, go to your room. And we think we've done well because we have identified exactly what it is the kid was doing wrong. he was speaking disrespectfully, and we've administered a consequence. They have to go to their room. Maybe no TV denied, or you can't play your games, or take your phone away for the night. And we think we've done well because we've identified that sin and then we've administered a consequence. But I call this the practice principle in my books. The practice principle maintains the fact that we have not disciplined our children properly until we have required them to come back and practice the biblical alternative to that wrong behavior. want them to practice that because when they do that, they're actually learning how to apply God's

word to daily life. So with the 10-year-old, what would you have them do? You could stay in your room until you're willing to come back out and try that again. Try that again in a way that does honor. You know, for my kids, that meant coming back out and using the appropriate words and the appropriate facial expression, as you just mentioned. And also for many kids, particularly mine as they grew into 13 years, that facial expression. Yeah. Oh, that was me. Yeah, I was a nightmare. Yeah, me too. What are your best tips for handling mom anger? We're all going to get angry sometimes. And there's a such thing as a righteous anger. The Bible does not say, do not become angry. It says, in your anger, do not sin. You know, when we see our children disobeying the Lord, there could be this anger that

rises up, but we've got to ask ourselves, am I angry because my child is sinning against God, or because he has embarrassed me or caused me some sort of trouble or inconvenience in some way. And so the heart posture, the heart attitude needs to be, I love my children too much to allow them to disobey and live foolishly. So are we responding with that sort of attitude? And if we're not, you know, you mentioned time out. I'm not a big fan of time out, but I am a big fan of, I guess, more of a reflective time out for the parent. And so when I feel that anger rising up in me, I'm going to, it's okay to send our kids to their room while we say, hey, I need a few minutes in my room.

Or if you can't go to your room, just step away for a moment. And just a short prayer, Lord, I'm angry right now because my will is being violated here. They're not doing what I told them to do for the 50th time. But I need for you to make my heart right so that I'm going to go and respond in ways that bring you glory and do not sin against my kids. Because if we lash out and we respond in anger to our kids, that reproof, that's, that. discipline is going to be administered in a sinful way. And that is going to cause our children to be exasperate. It's going to provoke them to anger. The scripture says a gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. And so if we're angry and we're disciplining in anger, that's going to provoke our children to anger. So we need to step away for a moment and make sure that our hearts are right before we reprove and discipline our kids. It's okay. Take a minute.

It's okay to take a minute. Why aren't you a fan of time out? Well, for me, I know that some parents say that timeout is huge for them. And so I don't think it's wrong to use timeout. I don't think it's not biblical to use time out. But for my kids, I found that when I put them in time out, especially when they were younger, they would get up. Well, then you've got this whole other issue of disobedience going on. And so it can just go on and on. And then you can get into a power struggle with your kids because they're getting up. So then you have this whole other thing that you're having to deal with. So for my kids, for direct disobedience, we would just go ahead and deal with it then. of putting them in time out where they can get up and then it drags on and on and on, which can also be torturous for kids. So I was really big on let's go ahead and deal with this quickly, get it over with, clean slate. Now you have, you know, a choice. Are you going to obey or are you going to disobey? Is it possible for a mom to stop yelling, even if it's a deeply ingrained habit? Yeah, sure. All things are possible with God, right? But it's got to be through the Holy Spirit. Some of those things that we get into the habit of we can only overcome those

things by the power of the Holy Spirit. So I would say pray. Whatever your biggest struggle is, pray. And something else I really encourage moms to do is to repent when they blow it, because we're all going to blow it sometimes. I mean, Alex, I knew to do all of these things, but there were times that I raised my voice to my kids when I should not have. And, you know, in those moments, I would use that as an opportunity. Instead of just beating myself up about it, I blew it again, I would ask the Lord's forgiveness. I would pray through it. And then I would sit my kids down sometimes. And I'd say, you know what, honey, the angry way that I just spoke to you, it did not show respect for you and it did not honor God. Will you forgive me? Let me try that again

in a way that does show respect for you and does honor God. And again, I'm modeling for them the same thing I'm asking of them to put off what is wrong and then to practice putting on what is right. And not only that, but when we blow it with our kids and we take that time to ask their forgiveness and go back and make things right. We are modeling for our kids what it means to have a personal relationship with Jesus. We're modeling for our kids what the conviction of the Holy Spirit looks like and how to rightly respond to that conviction. When it comes to yelling, it's something that I already know I would, I will struggle with as ever. Even just around my friends' kids, like if I'm the only adult in the room and people are attacking each other or

once crawl in this wall to get into some cabinet or something, I'm the first to be like, Hey, get off, get down, stop, you know. So I see that in myself. And I grew up in a home where it was, we yelled. So like, I know that I'm going to have to struggle with that. It's something that was taught to me. That's like the way that I saw parenting be done. And then so I guess when you've got multiple kids of different ages, all disobeying at once,

how do you correct that in the moment without yelling? Right. Well, and I would say there are times when it might be necessary to raise your voice. I mean, obviously if your child's going. over there to a boiling pot and they're about to, you know, yank it off and you're on the other side of the kitchen, you know, hey, stop, you know, that's going to be appropriate. But one thing that I think might help for parents who struggle, or it helped me anyway, because I struggled with that too, is that I would take time to make eye-to-eye contact when you can. I mean, obviously, at the boiling

pot is part of the equation here. You're going to have to yell. Or running towards traffic. Or running towards traffic. You may, you may have to yell. And that's fine. That's for the safety of our kids. but when you can, when you see them disobey and or you see them doing something they're not supposed to do, take time, instead of yelling from across the room, take time to go over there and kneel down and make eye-to-eye contact. And something else that I found is when you are asking heart-probing questions, one or two heart-proving questions, when you are teaching them scripture, it's hard to yell the word of God at them. Because when we're quoting scripture to our kids, the Holy Spirit is working through us. And so I found that it's hard to, to scream God's word at them. It helped me to have self-control to stop, make eye-to-eye contact. You know, some kids that are super hyper, you might even touch their shoulder or touch their face to get them to look you in the eyes and then ask, honey, are you obeying or are you disobeying right now?

Well, you're disobeying. God's word says children obey their parents. And I love you too much to let you disobey. It's hard to scream that of them. Right. Because our hearts are right when you're in the midst of that correction. So if you've got like a kid on top of another kid, you know, sticking their fingers in their eyes and pinching them or whatever. They're very angry. It's coming out

physical attacks. Do you just go up, pick them up, and silently take them in another room and then have that eye-to-eye conversation? Like, what's the best way to deal with it when they're, like, attacking each other? What they're attacking each other, you might could address it. If they're both in it together, you could address them at the same time. And so I don't really see picking them up and taking them another room, but definitely sitting them down and having this conversation with both of them. But when it's just one child, I really recommend not embarrassing them, whether you're out in public or whether they're having this battle with their friends, but to take them off to the side. When we correct and reprove our children in front of others, we take their focus off of the

sin and their own heart and onto the embarrassment and the humiliation that we have unnecessarily caused them. Our goal is not to embarrass and humiliate our kids, but to point them to the wisdom and righteousness of Christ. If anybody else is around, I very much encourage parents to take the child off to the side and just quietly instruct them to where it's just between the two of you. So again, I think that helps to have us to have self-control when we're taking that moment and we're looking at it from what is our goal here. Yeah. It's to reach their heart and to point them to Christ. You realized the other day that you basically live off of fast food, coffee, and occasional vegetables.

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Do you think that's okay to kind of pivot to dad and let him be the disciplinarian like that later on? Or does it need to be mom in the moment? I think it should be mom in the moment. And I tell you why. There's a couple of reasons for that. One, especially with younger kids, mom is the one that's there, you know, during the day in those situations and dad is off to work. So how discouraging and torturous for the child, you know, you just wait and your dad gets home. He's going to deal with that. Well, that's such, that's so hard on kids to have

to wait. And then when dad does come home, instead of the child looking forward to dad getting home, and dad looking forward to coming home, it's this dreaded moment of dad coming home. And so we want that to be something that they celebrate and look forward to dad coming home. And I think it's better to go ahead and deal with things in the moment. So if mom's there, dad's not, go ahead and deal with it. And then it's like I said, clean slate, forgiveness. You got a brand new choice now. But I also encourage dads when you are home that you would be the one to deal with that because mom is dealing with it all day. And it's so important for kids to see that moms and dads are on the same page in their parenting. Because if they're not, kids are going to learn how to manipulate one parent against the other.

If mom is always the one that disciplines, dad's just Mr. Fun or he's just the one that does the talking all the time, they're going to learn how to manipulate one parent against the other. And then you have marriage problems going on. So the time it takes to fine tune your parenting philosophies to the same specifics, how are we going to deal with this in a united way? Man, that's so vital for kids. It can also cause insecurity when mom and dads are not on the same page because they're confused. Why does dad view it this way and mom views it this way?

So when they're on the same page, it gives comfort and security in the hearts of kids because they see that unity in the marriage. In your view, do you think that all children benefit from spanking? Ooh, Alex. You want me to get some hate emails now. You might get a little bit, but they really like you. I will say my audience really like you. Okay, let me say this.

For my kids, the biblical use of the rod, I did that in the right way. And so it was done with gentleness, with self-control, and with love. And my children knew that. And they will tell you to this day that they are thankful that it was done in that way. So when you ask me, do I think all parents should spank? I'm going to say no. Parents who are doing it the wrong way that are doing it in an abusive, angry way that is not self-control, that is reactive, I think it's better to refrain from that all together than to sin against their children and sin against God in the way that it is administered.

I love this take. But I also wouldn't say that that's an excuse not to use the biblical use of the rod. It's more of a call to really study what does. the scripture say about it. And the scripture does not say that it is an angry, abusive form of abuse. It says it's a loving, gentle way to correct our children. A lot of parents see that passage of scripture and they say, you know, the rod is a metaphor for a shepherd staff. It just means guiding your children. It doesn't mean you literally have to spank them. What's your response to that? I would say that we need to look to scripture to that because the scripture clearly says that the rod is also a form of punishment. In Proverbs it says, do not withhold discipline from a child. If you punish him

with a rod, he will not die, punish him with a rod and save his soul from death. So clearly, there are passages of scripture where the rod is used in ways other than just gently nudging them to go in a different direction. It's called a form of punishment. But again, it's not an angry, abusive form of punishment. I have people say, you know, Jesus would never abuse a child. And, well, of course he wouldn't. Of course Jesus wouldn't abuse a child. And he hasn't called parents to abuse their children. But he has called us to lovingly discipline our children with self-control and to train them up in his ways. How do you handle a child who screams during correction of any form and refuses to calm down? Well, I had one that did and one that didn't. And so I think that that is

where we have to study our children. Some kids may need a little bit of time to calm down before discipline actually goes down. And then some kids, I had one that wanted to get it over with very quickly. And so even though they're screaming and crying, I just know we need to go ahead and get this over with quickly and then give them a little time. I mean, you know, when we when we suffer consequences, it's painful. The Bible says in Hebrews that no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. We have to discipline even though it's not pleasant. I don't think I knew of anything harder than disciplining my kids. It wasn't pleasant for me and it wasn't

pleasant for them. But I knew that it was necessary to produce that harvest of righteousness and peace. And it says later on it produces that. So we just have to suffer through the heartache of that and the unpleasantness of that. And that might involve a lot of tears and maybe even some screaming. But that doesn't mean that we don't do it. It means that we honor the Lord because that's where righteousness and peace come in. How can a mom who feels completely overwhelmed or houses in chaos, it's been a very long time, maybe even years since her kids really respected and listened to her, how does she know where to start? Oh, wow. Yeah, because some people may have been listening to this and thinking, oh, man, I'm just completely blown it. It's too late. You know, there's no starting over now. I can't. But you absolutely can. Those moms for sure can. I would say, you know, just sit your kids down, no matter how old they are in an age-appropriate way, just say something like, you know, honey, I have been reading the Bible and praying. And, you know, I have not been disciplining you the way that I should. God's word says that I'm supposed to train you to obey and to live in wisdom. And I've been allowing you to disobey and live foolishly. Will you forgive me for that? And here's what scripture says. And so going forward and then just lay out the boundaries. This is what's required. And when you, when you don't do these things, this is what the consequence is going to be. So just apologize. Ask forgiveness and start fresh. know, the Bible says that God's mercies are new every morning and great is his faithfulness. How do you raise children who not only respect you but actually want a relationship with you as an adult? Well, in my own experience, I have found that when we take time to spend time with our kids, to do fun things with them, to have that balance of not just being the disciplinarian, but also

the one that is always nurturing and comforting and involved in their lives in every aspect of their lives, they're going to want a relationship with us when we get older. The discipline part, when we're consistent in the younger years, as they grow into their teen years, we want to loosen those reins. And as we do that, we're respecting them and start allowing them to make some of their own decisions. And then we kind of move into a coaching or an advisory kind of stage. And that's that's where we are with our kids today. You know, their 20s and young 30s now. But even in their teen years, we had to make that transition from being, okay, you disobeyed and here's this consequence to more of a coaching kind of parent, to where you want them to come. Like my kids, when they

messed up in some way in their lives, they were comfortable coming to me in their teen years and saying, man, I messed up. I did this. And there wasn't, well, you shouldn't have done that. And you knew better. There was this, well, there is forgiveness in Christ. There is a clean slate when you ask forgiveness and when you turn from that and you repent from that. And that is the beauty of knowing Christ and what he's done for us. And so there was no shaming in the teen years when they did make some bad decisions. There was understanding because, man, I made some bad decisions in my teen years too.

And I would share that. I would relate and say, you know, I did that same thing when I was a teenager. And I'm so thankful for the grace and the mercy and the forgiveness of God and that he empowers us to turn from those ways and to follow him. Yeah. And so be honest, be transparent in age-appropriate ways, obviously. Some of the things that I did as a teenager, I didn't share with my kids until they were almost teenagers themselves. But there's something to be said for transparency and the grace of God in our own lives and thankfulness for that.

When we have received a lot of grace, we're willing to show a lot of grace. Okay, I have to ask this random question. Okay. Because your kids are the same age as me. Were you guys a SpongeBob house or not a SpongeBob house? Oh, we love SpongeBob. Okay. Okay, so that's not what's wrong with me.

because you get your hubbard's kids also watch sponge bob yeah they did and there was some stuff you know that's another thing though when you see something and and i mean obviously i was pretty protective we also loved veggie tales that was one of our favorites yeah this is so funny my daughter and i um just went out to the share the arrows conference and she she is her she is the biggest fan of you and alie beth stuckie i'm honored you guys are her favorite like she was so jealous that ronnie got to come instead of her so i need to get a picture with you but anyway so we were out there with Ali Beth and Alex was like, what question should I ask her?

Because she has this Q&A time. So she's like, you know, losing sleep over what question she's going to ask Ali Beth. And she was the first one, like as soon as Ali Beth opened it up to questions. Alex's like, she's like you. She's so outspoken and just, you know, very, wears her feelings on her sleeves, the whole thing.

So she grabs her napkin. Like this is a nice formal dinner with, you know, the white tablecloths. And she grabs her neck and saying, who's, woohoo, woohoo! To get to get Ali Beth's attention. And so Ali Beth answered. And she said, so why do you not like veggie tails?

Is that the one you're going to ask? What was Allie's answer? Oh my goodness. She said, I do like veggie tails. I just don't like how woke. Phil, this sure is that is my woke he is. It's changed now. Right, but that was a quick answer.

I do like veggie tales. So my Alex just sat back down like, oh, that probably wasn't the best question. Well, listen, you got to tell your Alex that this Alex, one of my favorite memes. This is this picture of Bobbed the Tomato. And I always send it to my friends. And it says, uh-oh. The Tomato caught you sinning. That's great.

Yeah, huge Veggie Tail fans. But yes, I also let her watch SpongeBob. Okay, good. That's why she turned out so great. There you go. SpongeBob's so much fun. But also, it's okay when we're watching things like that with our kids, too, to take moments when we see when Sponged Bob does something that's maybe not the best thing to do or his sidekick. Who is it?

Who is his crazy? Patrick. Yeah, Patrick. We can talk about that and say, oh, you know, what do you think about that? Yeah. What did you think about the way that SpongeBob did that, handle that? So you can still watch the fun things and use it as teaching moments to talk about sometimes. You know, what do you think might have been a better thing to do in that situation?

Please tell us, Ginger, about your books and your books about discipline. And then do you have anything new coming out anytime soon? One thing that just came out that we're excited about, I do have a podcast, parenting with Ginger Hubbard. And we talk about all things, parenting. We're very all about helping parents get past that outward behavior, getting to the heart of those. issues and then addressing them from a biblical perspective. And practically, I am super, super passionate about helping parents move past the frustrations of not knowing how to handle all of these issues and into a very confident practical, biblical approach to raising their kids. So I'm really excited about the podcast

and the newest resource that just came out is we have a study guide. We now have a six-week study guide for the podcast so that moms or even parents can get together and listen to the podcast and then discuss those things and grow and learn from each other. as well. So that was the newest resource that came out. But I guess my most foundational resources are the wise words for moms chart that we've talked about a little bit today. And then my best selling parenting book is don't make me count to three, which is a mom's look at heart oriented discipline. And that is broken down into three parts, how to get to the heart, how to give a biblical reproof, and then the biblical use of the rod. So if you are on the fence about the rod, that would be a good book to look at what does the Bible say about the rod. What is the right way to do it. What's the wrong way to do it? So many parents are not using it the right way. And so I give guidelines for how to use it the right way. Again, very practical and very heart-oriented. And what's the website to download all this? Ginger Hubbard.com. And Alex, for your listeners, if they use code parenting at checkout, I'll give them a 10% discount on all of these.

Yeah, I really appreciate when people order. You can get stuff on other online retailers, but I very much appreciate it when people order through the website because that is a way that help support my podcast and our ministry. So I always like to get that discount. Yes, we should do that. So code parenting. And then what is your Instagram? At ginger.hubbard. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be? I would say to not give up doing good. And that is something that you're really good at is you are bold. And I know you get a lot of flack from some of the things that you, because you are very aggressive and very bold. But you are aggressive and bold in truth. And that's where we're supposed to be aggressive in bold. So I appreciate

the ministry that you're doing. And I know you get a lot of criticism from it. But if you were not being persecuted, you would not be doing something right. Because the scripture says when we are speaking truth with boldness, there will be persecution. So you keep on doing that. And to parents, I want to say this to parents, training our children in the discipline and instruction of the Lord is we can become so weary from doing that day in and day out just become so weary from training them in some of these same things over and over and over that they really struggle with. But we can be encouraged with Galatian 6-9. And that verse says, let us not become weary in doing good. For at the proper time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. That was my life verse for parenting. Ginger, this has been so edifying, so beautiful, so

encouraging, just delightful. Thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary. Oh, thank you for having me. what an honor to get to meet you. If scripture calls parents to train the heart, why are so many modern discipline methods built around managing emotions instead of obedience? Continue the discussion in the key service of Facebook group or leave a five-star review with your thoughts on this episode. We're trying to heal us at culture physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

Twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays with expert guests. Follow the show on Instagram at Culture Apothecary, or you can find me at Real Alex Clark. I'm Alex Clark, and thanks for listening to Culture Apothecary.