Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark - “You Can Homeschool! Yes, Even YOU.” - Eradicating Self-Doubt With Heidi St. John

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

GET READY TO BE RADICALIZED ON ALL THINGS HOMESCHOOLING! Every stereotype and myth will be busted by homeschool expert @heidistjohn. We’re pulling our kids out before the next school year starts and we’re not going to be afraid! From curriculums to educational methods, and flaws in the public school system to revealing the ONLY REASON a family should forego homeschooling – Heidi has an unapologetic, well-informed, and lived experience with homeschooling her own 7 kids through different season...

There are currently between four and five million parents homeschooling now in the United States, but there are still a lot of moms who think it could never work for their families. I have seen your concerns and your fears on homeschooling. I know exactly what you're going to say, what you have said, and why you think you can't. And I know that you might be resistant to hearing this conversation because if you even consider that what my guest today says is true, then that means you might be resistant. have to change your entire life. And that's scary. You might need to budget differently or be uncomfortable with some temporary change. But my guest is here to say that you can homeschool and also

that you should. You can do it if you're rich, poor, a single parent, have two parents working full time outside the house, a mom of one or a mom of 10. You can homeschool your kids if you live in the city or the country on weekends or weekdays. At night in the morning, you can do it seven days a week, twice a week throughout the summer or at the beach. You can incorporate religion, art, travel, lots of literature, tons of workbooks or zero workbooks. My own personal belief on this topic, I don't think that everyone has to homeschool, but I think the majority of people should, and I also believe that the majority of people can. I also think most people that have a strong adversity to it or doubt themselves on their

ability truly have never spent any time looking into it. This is the ultimate homeschooling episode. We are busting myths, misconceptions, discussing how to pick a curriculum who's not a good candidate for it. Yes, I do ask, okay, well, if there was someone that isn't good for homeschooling, what do they look like? Okay, I asked that question, what the different types of methods there are. And for the seasoned homeschoolers, there is some amazing encouragement that even when you have bad days while homeschooling, it doesn't mean you're a bad mom. Today's guest is a homeschool fluencer, a word I just made up, host of the podcast off the bench, author and speaker. She is also one of the biggest movers and shakers in the homeschool movement.

I'm very happy to host Heidi St. John on the spillover. We couldn't get this recording started fast enough because you're starting to blow my mind just things you're saying off the air. And I'm like, wait, Heidi, wait, we have to put a pause. We have to bring all of this up on camera so that everybody else can hear it. But I had to have you here because I have been driven insane by people who swear up and down that they can never homeschool because they have this very dated image in their mind of the only women who homeschool are wearing floor-length denim skirts and they drive a 76 passenger van and they live on a 200-acre farm. I mean, those moms exist. But the truth is homeschooling can really look a million different ways. And conservatives can be so closed-minded.

about homeschooling. I'm not trying purposely to hurt people's feelings today, but if it happens, it happens. Oh, wow. Why do you think conservatives have bought into this lie that they can't do it? Well, because it's conditioning, right? It's social conditioning. We've been told for generations that the homeschool kids are the weird kids, that homeschool kids don't get into college, that homeschool kids aren't socialized, that the moms are crazy. And I mean, you just gave the quintessential stereotype, right? The mom and that that's why I didn't want to do it, honestly. I mean, Because when I was looking at homeschooling, there was a magazine that was out called The Teaching Home, and every single month that, you know, people at my church would try to proselytize me into like the homeschool movement. I'm like, no, listen, lady, you do you? Because I couldn't conceive what woman in her right mind would want to be home with her little kids all day long when a yellow bus come taken away for free.

Right. That's what people say. How could you stand to be around your kids all day long? Right, right. And think about what's happened to society where we want to co-opped the raising a, of the most precious people in our lives, and we want to give that responsibility to somebody else. And I want to get back to that magazine because it just makes me laugh every time I think about it, because that was what they wanted, right? So on the cover of this magazine is a mom with 14 kids, and they're all holding the stringed instrument and they're all wearing dresses their mom made

from scraps that she got at Joanne Fabrics, you know. And I'm like, I can't sew, and I failed home economics breadmaking class, so that's not going to work. And I just didn't feel like I fit in. And when God finally got a hold of my heart and I pulled my daughter out of second grade in a public school, it changed the way that I saw my role in the lives of my kids. And what I want to do today is change the way people see what their responsibility is towards the next generation. How many kids do you have? What are their ages and how long have you been homeschooling for now? How much time you got? All the time for you.

So I have seven children. Our oldest daughter is in her 30s now and she's got four kids of her own. and they go all the way down. Most of my kids are in their 20s all the way down to a 12 years old. So our number six is graduating our homeschool here in just a couple of weeks. No, June 3rd.

I'm going to cry. I cannot even believe that I will be down to one child at home. It's gone by really fast. So, yeah, I'm 187 years old in homeschooling, if anyone's wondering. So besides the magazine and being like, I can't sew,

I don't know how to play an instrument or whatever, what other reservations did you feel like you had? about homeschooling before you did it. Well, they told me you couldn't do it. They said, you need a degree in education. What a lie. What a lie that is.

Think about how messed up we are, that we graduate from a high school that's supposed to have us proficient in reading, writing, and arithmetic. And then we go, yeah, I can't teach a third grader basic math. Someone also have to do that. Someone with a degree needs to do that. Yeah, sounds like a public school problem. 100%. Yes, 100%.

And we've been told, we've been lied to. I mean, this is what my friend Sam Sorbo always says, you know. Oh, I love Sam. I love Sam. I love Sam. I love Sam. love Sam. I love Sam. So the last time Sam was on my show, we were talking about this, and she's like, Heidi, remember, these kids aren't getting educated. They're being schooled. And that's what it is. Our kids are being, we're not educating children anymore. We're schooling them. We're schooling them in ideology in Oregon right now. Kate Brown, the wicked evil governor that just got replaced by another wicked evil governor. She's made it so that no student in an Oregon public school needs to be proficient in reading, writing, or math to graduate from high school. They want the kids stupid. They do. In illiterate. Yep. Yeah, because a stupid, illiterate student will follow instructions without question.

And so we've taken away our ability to think critically and homeschooling gives it back to you. The homeschool movement is a freedom movement. It's a love your kids first movement and then it's a freedom movement after that. And the public schools are railing against it because this is their platform for control. You want to talk about control? Let's talk about the National Education Association, the N-EA, the most wicked, evil, corrupt union on the face of the earth, pushing this ideology to children, five days a week, nine months out of the year. And every person that comes up to me and says, well, that's not in my kid's school.

I'm like, are you guys members of the NIA? Well, yeah. Well, then it's in your school. Then it's in your school. It's a cancer. And you may not see it yet. It's metastasizing somewhere in the janitor's closet. But I promise you, by the time you see it, it'll be too late.

And so trying to talk to people now about the importance of education and why it matters to this generation, why it should matter so much to the rising generation has been sort of my goal in life for the last 15 years. It's just to say, listen, if Heidi St. John, a woman who can't keep houseplants alive and didn't get a degree in education, right, if I can homeschool all seven of my kids, who, by the way, are going on to do amazing things. They're entrepreneurs. My daughter, Sierra, is an amazing graphic artist. She works full time doing that. Savannah is a wonderful mother. All my kids are S's, by the way.

Oh, that's cute. Savannah, Sierra, Skyler Spencer. St. John. Sydney Sailor, St. John, yeah. That's cute. Now, I said to you, there are people who listen to my show and they think it's weird when I do these education type of episodes or anything about parenting or whatever because they're like, well, Alex, why do you care about this? You're not a parent yet. Right. What did you say about that? I would say, why would you not care about it? Every child, if you live in community, you need to care about what's happening in your community. And the schools are ground zero for the hostile takeover of this country. They are absolutely ground zero. Our kids are being told they can be a narwhal whale by Friday if they want to be. And these are tomorrow's teachers, tomorrow's, doctors, tomorrow's, lawyers, tomorrow's, legislators. These are the people that are going to be making decisions for you when you're going into a nursing home. You better care about what they believe about right and wrong. We better care that they have the ability to think critically, that they understand that there are moral absolutes. And we're teaching

children that there are no moral absolutes. I mean, it is a dangerous thing when we pull our vote or vote in our opinion out of the public school system simply because we don't have a child in the school system. It is selfishness. It's the height of selfishness. And we've been told that it's not our responsibility. To me, this is akin to the abortion industry telling men they have no say in the abortion debate because they don't have a uterus. Forget that they're the father of that child or that they should have a say about right and wrong. And the same thing I think can be said of the discussion with regard to education. Think of it this way. The public school system right now is cranking out students by the hundreds of thousands every single June, students who hate this country,

and they don't understand right from wrong, that should send a shiver up the spine of every person that loves this country and care how old you are. That's why I think caring about education, whether you have kids or not, it has to be a core conservative value. It has to be one of the main things that we are talking about because they're just creating activists that are voting against our best interests as a country. So there obviously had to have been a tipping point. Your oldest daughter was in school. Yep. And then you decided, uh-uh, I'm not doing this. I'm becoming a homeschool mom. So how did you go from, I'm nervous about this? I don't know that I can do this to I'm not only doing it, but I'm marching into my kid's school and pulling her out.

Yeah, it was a process. What happened was, in all honesty, my second daughter, Sierra, she works for us as a graphic designer, an amazing young woman. She wanted to go to school with her big sister. And so I took her down there for kindergarten and she missed the cutoff by like two weeks. They're like, well, she's not old enough and have got this really bright, inquisitive. I mean, I'm a mother, right? All my kids are bright and beautiful and smart and she needs to be doing something. And they said, no, you're going to have to enroll her in the next school year. She's two weeks past the deadline, which is another thing. I just can't stand about the school system, really. How about we do it on merit and what a child is capable of instead of, you know, what birthday

do you have? But anyway, I made the fatal mistake of going down to a homeschool supply store. And there was a man in there by the name of Eli, right? Your quintessential homeschool guy, right, right. I walk in there. Surprise his name wasn't just like Thackeray or something. Right, right, right, right. And you can tell. I mean, this kid, I mean, he's inherited the store from either his parents or his uncle or somebody, definitely a homeschooler. And I walk in there and I just say, hey, my name's Heidi. I'm not interested in homeschooling. I just want to lay it out there. I'm trying to give my daughter something to do to pass the time so that she's not bored so that when the, when next year's deadline rolls around, I can enroll her. She'll be ready. And he said, oh, okay.

Like, he looked at me like. And he was like, sure. Right, sure. Well, he looked out the window and he saw I was driving a Ford Arrow Star minivan, which is everyone knows is the gateway drug to homeschooling. I just didn't know at the time. I was like, if someone should have told me, I'd have to run. But he gave me a book. And I hope all of your listeners check it out.

Okay, write it down. If you're thinking about homeschooling, yes, write this down. This is one of those podcasts. You need to have your pen and paper out. Get it out right now. We'll wait. Okay. So the book is called Teach Your Child to Read in 100.

easy lessons. And it looked like kind of a boring book and kind of a thick book. And I was like, there's no pictures on this. I'm going to hate this. But I take it home and I think, well, I'll give it a try. And I sit down with her for 20 minutes and I teach her the sound A, you know, sort of a short A sound. So she's doing a. Well, after about a few days, you know, I teach her A and then I teach her the letter M. And when her dad comes home from work one night, you know, all of a sudden she's doing the word am. I mean, Alex, come on. I taught her the word I am. And so I was like, Sierra, tell your dad what we did today, right? And she's like, I said, read this for your dad. So I hold it up just like the book tells you because I've never done this before. So I'm like, everything they tell you to do, I'm doing it. And I say, what's this word? She says, am. And I go, okay, now say it faster. And she goes, Emma. And I go, okay, now take, now say it smoother. And she goes, am. And I just, I'm jumping up and down. I'm like, I did that. I did that. I taught her to read. And it was one word. But I loved it. And I realized they've been. lying to me. They told me I could never teach her to read. They said I didn't have a teaching certificate.

So there's no way I could do it. And I thought, maybe I could teach her math. And so pretty soon I'm getting math workbooks. And before you know it, I've got the posters of the presidents up around the kitchen, you know, well, only the ones that I like to be fair. But I'm teaching her and I'm loving it. And it wasn't long after that that there was a bomb threat at the public school where my daughter was attending. In the little tiny can be Oregon, a very rural school. And I, that happened. And I also, I'm noticing that I'm getting my daughter for just the last couple of hours of the day. The school got the best of her.

They got the best hours of her day. And the school bus would come drop her off at home and her daughter, you know, my other daughter, Sierra, who'd been, you know, with me all day long. And, you know, we did school for an hour and we're done. And then we're making cookies and we're doing laundry and going to the store. And she's dying to see her big sister. And her big sister comes home and she's tired. And she just wants to sit in front of the TV and watch cartoons. And I started scratching my head going, maybe there's more to life than that.

maybe I should consider pulling Savannah out. And at the end of that year, by the grace of God, and my knees were knocking. I mean, I took a big old wagon in with me. You were scared. I was so scared. I took a big old school wagon of books with me to her teacher because I wanted to look legit, you know. And I said, I'm going to take Savannah out of school next year. And I'm going to homeschool her.

And what was her reaction? She, by the, it was just the Lord all over it. She said, Heidi, you will never regret this. She said, if I could go back and homeschool my kids, that's what I would do. Now, see, I wonder if a teacher today would say that. Oh, man, that was 24 years ago. Imagine. I mean, this is before we're teaching our kids that girls can become boys and that there is no God.

And they've got their hands all over the political movement, even for little kids. And so I took her out and I began what I thought would be just a grand experiment. And none of the rest of my kids have ever seen the inside of a regular school building. And it was the hardest, best thing we ever did. Hissland guys, you want to find out how wicked you are? Homschool your kids. What did your husband say? Just completely not patient you are?

That's the way to find out. He was nervous, I think, at first, absolutely. And I just began to just pray for him. You know, Lord, soften his heart because I want to be on the same page as my husband. And he was on board, and I'll tell you what. I mean, I have so many great stories from all these years of homeschooling my kids and, you know, the things that we've been able to do because our schedule allowed us that freedom. And I think at the end of the day, it has strengthened our family more than anything we possibly ever could have done.

Because you know what the public school is taking from you? It's taking time. That is the most precious gift that you can give your children. It's the gift of time. You walk in relationship with them. And what are we doing as parents? We're co-opting our parenting with the government. We're giving the public school system eight hours every day or more.

Five days a week, nine months out of the year, we send our kids to Rome to be educated and they come out Romans and we scratch our heads and go, what happened? Exactly. Well, that's what happened. Lots of people boycotting Target now and wondering, well, where can I shop for a lot of these regular items I need, including beauty products like face wash and moisturizer? Guess what? I use an incredible conservative-owned skincare brand that is in the same price point, maybe even

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Try Mimi today at Mimiskincare.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off. That's n-I-M-I-Skincare.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off or click the link. in the description. This is going to seem like a stupid question probably, but I'm committed to asking even the stupid questions on this. Those are my favorite ones, yeah. Some people would say, well, is homeschooling really even legal? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. And all 50 states. And actually, homeschooling was made legal by a guy named Mike Ferris, who happens to be a very good friend of mine, the founder of an organization called the Homeschool Legal Defense Association, which now has, oh, my goodness, probably 80 million members worldwide. But homeschooling is legal in all 50 states, and it hasn't always been that way. And I have friends, Zan Tyler is among them. She wrote the state law in South Carolina.

When she tried to homeschool her special needs son because he was falling behind in school, they threatened her with jail. And it's hard for us to imagine now because homeschooling, and the statistics back it up, right? Academically, these kids are outperforming their public school peers. Socially, 68% of homeschool kids, their parents say they're happier after they pulled them out of public school. But Zan remembers being threatened with jail. They said, you keep your kid home and we're going to take you to court. We'll put you in jail. Our freedoms were very hard won and they need to be protected.

And so to me, you know, I look back over the history of the homeschool movement and my passion to protect the freedom that has been hard won and fought for for so long is very, very high right now because there are lots of people. I mean, all I got to do is go look at some of the articles that coming out of the elites, the, you know, the academic elites from Harvard University and places like that that want to see kids unable to be educated by their parents. You know why? It's not because they're not doing well academically. It's about control. Yes. Education is not neutral. The public school knows it and it's time parents figured it out. I think a lot of moms think, well, I can't do this because they think that school is supposed to be this rigorous eight to three schedule. Oh, yeah, no. No. No. I mean, can you, I'm just, you know, why?

She's like me as a mom, isn't she? Why do we think that? We think it should be an eight to three because that's what we did. Yeah, right? And so I guess I'm trying to get a whole new generation of people to rethink education. What would it look like if education got reborn? What would it look like if we actually took back control of our kids' education? We very rarely would do an eight to three in our house.

If you've got a little one, if you've got a six-year-old, a seven-year-old, you're looking at an hour and a half. Exactly. And that's the thing. all for that age. That's all school should be. And this is why parents are like, well, I work full time. I can't do it. Yes, you can. You can because school doesn't need, and it really shouldn't be for a child. School shouldn't be six, seven hours a day. No, and we're hurting our children. And we're taking away the thing that is so precious when they are young and that is childhood. And praying back childhood for goodness sake in the Vancouver public school system. I want to say it was

10 years ago they started taking out the play kitchens, all of the fun things that, because they didn't like the sexism. They didn't like the stereotypes. And so they started removing those things from the classrooms. Then they removed the arts. They were not teaching music lessons anymore. And I just think, man, you know, what is it that's happened in our schools that these kids come out and they're on riddling or they're on antidepression medication? The kids are out of control in the classroom. We've removed discipline completely from the classroom. I have friends in my own family and family members and friends that I know who are teachers in the public schools. They're not allowed to discipline these kids. And so you get one kid who's disruptive, one kid who's having some sort of a manic episode,

and the entire class has to go into lockdown and they have to wait for the student. Exactly. And I tell parents all the time, tell me what it's worth to you. Let me put it into you in post-Rona terms that everybody understands, right, post the virus at the 99.9% survival rate that shuttered the whole entire country. If you thought there was a virus in the school with a 99.9% actual mortality rate, what would you do? You'd pull your kids out.

We learned that, right? people would figure it out, well, there is a virus with the 99.9% spiritual mortality rate. And I'm here to tell you right now, pull your children out of these broken education systems. They are broken academically. They are broken morally. They are broken spiritually. And what's happening is the broken system is breaking our children. And then we're looking at each other at the end of the day going, what's going on? Well, that's what's going on. Take back control of the education of your children and you will watch your children come back to life. But people are going to say that we're mean. I don't care.

I mean, I don't. Like I told you before, I'm done giving quarter to this argument, right? So for 15 years, I've sort of been talking about education, kind of, you know, soft-shoewing it. Well, you do you. And, you know, there are lots of really great teachers, which there are lots of really great teachers in the public school. But the public school, and you nailed it, Alex, at the beginning of the show. The public school has been hijacked by activists disguised as teachers. They're not interested in teaching your children, how to be great at critical thinking.

They're not interested in making sure your kids excel at math and reading and writing. They want your kids to be indoctrinated into leftist ideology, and that's why they're applying to be teachers in the first place. Yep. Yeah. And we need to care about that more than we care about our jobs, more than we care about how much money we bring home. We need to care about that because the future of this nation is hinging on it. Now, for someone who is learning about homeschooling for the very first time, what are the different homeschool methods out there? And then what did you end up going with for your family?

So I'm thinking in terms of like classical education, Charlotte Mason, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I started doing what I think most people do. I did what I did. I did what I did what I knew. So I did with my kids what I was used to, right? So we did school at home. So I pulled a curriculum that I thought, okay, we have a math workbook, a science workbook, you know, what did we do? A social studies workbook, which cracks me up.

Never buy a social studies workbook. Just do life with your kids and check it off your list and you're done, right? I buy all of these things. and I bought some desks, you know, because I'm used to that, and I think I'll set up a classroom downstairs in my family room and we'll do school down there. Alex, how long do you think that lasted? I'm going to give it three months. Yeah, roughly. I would say it was right around six weeks that I started going, this isn't working.

Because we weren't downstairs because homeschooling is not school at home, right? We were up around the kitchen table. I'm having them bring their math lessons up and sit down in the kitchen so I can finish prepping dinner for the night. And so I ended up getting rid of those desks and I started looking to different kinds of education. And I ended up a really loving a literature base approach. That's what I was. Oh, my, you will love it. Like, we have read every book on the planet.

But see, this is what you just said. People think homeschooling is supposed to be school at home. Yeah. No, it isn't. No. It's a lifestyle. That's the problem. Is the sitting at a desk for this many hours a day and you only work out of workbooks?

Right. That's not how it has to be. And that's why so many women are intimidated or parents are intimidated by the idea of homeschooling. Yeah. And I think, too, if you, if, I mean, if you want to do that, great. If it works for you and all your kids are like workbooky kids, do you know why we think homeschooling is workbooks? Because teachers give those workbooks and those pages to kids in order for the whole class to get the assignment done and really what you're doing is busy work. Yes. So for example, I might pull out a math lesson for my fourth grader and there are 30 lessons on the page. And I'm looking for mastery in my daughter. And so when she's done three and she's got it, we're moving on. You know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do all 30 of those problems because I know tomorrow we're going to repeat it again. And if she's got it, it's going to carry through to the next lesson. This is why you can get your schoolwork done in half the time or less than half the time. So to me, you know, over the years as I've watched each of my kids and they all have different learning styles, that's something I would really encourage you to do. Find out how you take in information. You as the parent. Yes. Find out how you, because I think, so

for me, I'm a visual learner. I love pictures. I want to have, like you can see my notes here, Alex, I draw boxes around things. I have to see boxes. I want to see colors. It's how my brain works. So I'm a visual learner. I've got kids who are kinesthetic learners, meaning they're moving and they're constantly moving. These are the kids who the parents are like, I could never do that because I'm going to have to peel them down off their refrigerator, right?

This is a kid who is a kinesthetic learner. And they learn by processing with movement is how their brain processes information. If you've got a kinesthetic learner, there's a million different ways to teach a kinestine. And that's probably the majority of boys who are being told they have ADHD. 100%. Yes, and oh my goodness, look, your kid can't sit still and oh, he needs to go take another break. We better put him on Ritalin. This kid's got an issue, you know, so he needs to see a counselor.

Maybe your son's actually a girl. Maybe that's what the problem is. No, he's just a boy, yeah. And I've got two boys, and I'm telling you what, they're different. My friend, I didn't used to believe in kinesthenic learners because I grew up in a regular school. And what happens to the child who's, you know, taking the gum out of his mouth and sticking it underneath his desk and he can't sit still and he's fidgeting with his stuff, at least when I was growing up, that kid got sent to the principal's office, right? Be quiet. We're doing a lesson. Stop talking your neighbor. Sit still.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. So I thought, well, this is an undisciplined child. This is a child who needs discipline. He needs me to say, no, you're going to sit still. Well, a friend of mine, Amy called me up one day and she said, I bet your son Skyler is a kinesthetic learner. And I said, that is garbage. That is just, that's a lazy mom right there, right? She said, try something. She said, while you're doing, because we did science altogether. So all of my kids, my seventh grader, my fifth grader, the fourth grader, the fourth grader, third grade, second grader, I'm reading out of an awesome book. We are studying astronomy.

And so we're talking about Saturn and all the things. And my son cannot sit still. And so Amy says, give him a box of Lincoln Lugs and just let him play. And I thought, he's not going to listen to me, right? Because he's going to be playing Lincoln Lodges, but I thought, well, whatever, I'll roll the guys. So he's doing that while you're talking and teaching. Yes. Yes.

So I continue to read. And my kids, you know, we're passing the book around and we're talking about stuff. And my son, Skyler, sitting on the floor. And at the end of our little half an hour of reading, I asked Skyler. I go, Skyler, tell me about the rings around Saturn. Oh, he just, I mean, that kid was listening more than his sisters who were mad because I was letting him play with Legos. And I realized the movement, she was right. The very simple fact that Skylar was able to build a building while I was reading helped him process that information.

It was life-changing. But you're never going to discover that with your kids in traditional school because teachers are not going, they don't have the time in the day. to sit with every kid out of 30 kids individually and figure out, what is your learning style? What is your learning style? We're going to do this for you, this for you. They have to do a one-size-fits-all thing. And then because of that, all of these kids fall through the cracks. Yes, yes.

And it's happening more and more and more. And kids are coming out of the system and they're depressed and they don't know what they want to do with their lives. And I'm a huge fan of a gap year. I don't know why in the world we're sending kids, two gap years, we're going to say. Yes. Why are we like, oh, you're 18? Let's send you to a liberal arts university and they can finish, you know, putting the nails in the coffin the public school started, right? Why are we doing that? This gives our kids an opportunity because for years,

I have been kind of, I have this sort of fold and more than bent approach with my kids. I want to see what natural skills and abilities did you come to the table with. Because guess what? You came with a skill and ability into this world. You were born with it. That's what happened to me. Yeah. Because when I was 18, well, since I was in middle school, I kept telling my parents, I want to work in fashion. I want to work in fashion. We went and toured Columbia College of Chicago. I was going to do the liberal art school thing when I turned 18. But at the last minute, something that I had always been interested in, which was TV and radio, but as a hobby, like I had done electives like TV, radio electives in high school and stuff like that.

I just didn't think of it as a career choice for me. But at the last minute before going away to four-year school, I took an internship at a local radio station. And that ended up determining my entire career. But it was because I took that break and was like, oh, I think this is fun. Let me just look into it for a minute. And then I'll go to school. And because I did that, I realized I didn't need to go to school. Man.

That never would have happened to me. I would not be here today if I would have just gone straight into college. If you would have done just the college path. And I think that's what we've been funneling kids into. My hunch is, and this is what happened to me when I was growing up in school. And my mom used to save my report cards. It's so funny. I read my report cards, you know, and on the back, I say, Heidi's a great student.

She talks too much. Yep. Right. You know, fifth grade, you know, Heidi talks too much. But, wow, I'm getting all A's, whatever. Turned out I like to talk, right? No one ever said to me, you like to talk, I wonder if you might be a teacher, or you like to talk, I wonder if you might want to go into media. Maybe you'd be interested in writing.

I ran for student council. I became the senior class president in my school. Not a single leader in that school ever came up to me and said, I wonder if because this seems your natural bent, have you ever considered, you know, A, B, or C. And I think it's because they don't have the time and the expertise and they don't care enough about the kids because it's not their kid. And that's the thing. Parents can pick that up in their own children. What are you naturally drawn towards? Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so talk about this literature-based learning. I mean, does this fall under more Charlotte Mason or Waldorf for what? For your family? For me, I ended up really, I started studying Charlotte Mason. I bought every Charlotte Mason book that I could get my hands on. I love the nature approach. So I started taking my kids on nature hikes, and we started incorporating what we were seeing in the world around us into our education.

I started something called notebooking with my kids where we, We basically made our own worksheets after a while. So I would take a book. I got really into unit studies, which is basically just take a book that you like. So if you got little kids, you know, maybe it's Ping the Duck, you know. Oh, yes. I know Ping. My mom is listening to this and she's going, I know Ping because my mom read me that.

Because your mom's a good mom. Yeah. Every good mom needs to read Ping to their kids. So let's say you're reading Ping and Ping's going to be the book that you're going to study. You know, you're going to study it. And so you study the countries that what Ping is from. Do you remember? Yep.

So we're going to stay. So like for the boat, right? And so we might make a boat out of popsicle sticks. or work. And now you've got engineering, you've got a little bit of science in there. If I wanted my kids to learn something about grammar that day, I might take a paragraph from the book, Ping, and have them copy it. And they're going to go, what's that, mama? Oh, those are quotation marks. That means that someone's talking. Read it again in the voice of ping. And that's what those quotation marks are telling you. All of a sudden, you're taking one $8 book and you've got a reading lesson, you've got a geography lesson, you've got grammar in it, you've got spelling. And it doesn't have to be expensive. And so we started collecting books and I read to my kids, I mean, every day. We read and read and read and read. And what

the idea is is that you're, we call them living books, right? So you're taking and squeezing like a washwreck every academic pursuit that you can possibly get out of that book. And so that is really how we did it for a long, long time. By the way, my listeners are very, very familiar with Sally Clarkson because she's been on this podcast twice. Yeah, well, Sally is always talking about living books. Have living books in your home. And that just means these books that you can use for lessons on multiple different things. Yes. And you'd be amazed at what you can do. I love, and Sally and I've been friends for a long time. And I love missionary stories. And we've had these conversations before. You can take the story of, say, Corey Ten Boom, for example. Yep. Or Elizabeth Elliott. Or Elizabeth Elliott.

Come on. Come on. Come on. Let's get some through the gates of splendor going. Right. So let's say that I'm studying Corey Tenbone, which I did with my kids, because I read the biography. I read Bonhofer. offer with my kids. I wanted them to be immersed. Jesus told parables because he knew that if you can connect a person's emotions to a lesson, they'll remember it, right? Stories are powerful teaching tools. So if you're studying Corey Ten Boom, we're going to be studying Germany. We're going to be studying World War II, right? We're going to be studying, you know, Corey Ten Boom's father was a watchmaker. So we learned how the inner makings of a watch and the clocks and all the things. Oh, yeah. And so it turns into this beautiful tapestry.

and that you're weaving while you're learning a story that you'll never forget. My kids will never forget the story of Corey Tindman, which, of course, after that, we had to read Anne Frank, you know, and one thing leads to another. And so if you're interested in it, and if I know that my kids are, wow, we're loving this, I'm going to stop what I'm doing for all the other things, and we're going to dive into it. I might go to the library and get more books on that subject. Yeah. And that's the thing with homeschooling is that your kids, all of the sudden, something might happen

where their learning is just really piqued. And so you have the freedom then because you're the teacher on your own schedule to say, oh, you know what? We're going to pause on whatever math lesson because now we're going to be diving into volcanoes

or whatever it is. They randomly become obsessed with. And then you can do that because you're not on this public education schedule. It's so amazing. I mean, I was, I mean, truly, I was an anti-homeschooler. I really was. I was just like, you people are insane.

You know, what do you don't? your kids don't have social security numbers, you know. I'm trying to figure it out, right? And it turns out that homeschooling. That isn't true, right? No, well, I don't know. I don't speak for those people. I think that it is so life-giving.

There is a series of books by a guy named Holling, C. Holling, and I'm sure he's long gone. And he was an evolutionist, to be fair. So we're not talking about, you know, Christian books or anything, but he wrote a series of book, one of them called Men of the Mississippi, about the snapping turtle, right? He starts up at the mouth of the Mississippi Rivers. Now we're up in, you know, Canada.

He's coming and all the things that he sees in the bottom of the river and all the things. So it's a history lesson and you're learning about the French explorers and all this stuff. Well, he keeps getting stuck in the dams. And I'm trying to explain to my sons how the lock and dam system works because the book is showing a little diagnostic drawing of a dam system. And they just don't get it. And my son's hanging upside down on the couch and no one's paying attention. So finally I was like, yeah, let's put your shoes on. We're going.

They're like, what are we doing? I'm like, we're going to field trip. So we literally packed everybody up. I threw some peanut bread and jelly sandwiches. I'm sure another minivan at this point. And we drove up to Bonneville down on the Columbia River because I live in Washington State. And there was nobody there. Another thing that homeschoolers love, right?

In the middle of the week, the park ranger was like, yes, people are here. And I said, we are studying a snapping turtle who got stuck in a turbine. Do you have a turbine? You can show my kids. And he was like, absolutely. So we go into the belly of the beast in this massive turbine system. And all of a sudden, my son, Skyler, goes, oh, we're. that's why men is stuck.

And Spencer was like, that's why he could get out this way. And they're looking at how the water is moving. And they never forgot it. They remembered. And we look back at those times now because those kids are, you know, 23 and 25 years old. And they're still talking about men in the Mississippi. And it's a powerful, beautiful thing that draws us into relationships with our kids and gives them an education that they'll never forget. And you know what the best part is?

I'm not looking back on those years and wishing that I wouldn't have wasted that time. Okay. So for the women that have their notebooks out, just real quick, say the name of the different education method for homeschooling and then a sentence or two of this is this style. If you like this, you'll like this style just so they can see if they're trying to pick. I think if you're a visual learner like me, you're probably going to want something like a living education, like a Charlotte Mason. So just you want to Google a Charlotte Mason education. The classical education model is exactly how it sounds. You're going to study the Greek system of education.

And actually, I like to kind of paraphrase it this way. Jesus was really brought up in a Jewish system of education. The Jewish system of education always focused more on relationship. He was brought up in a very relational environment. Even when you saw him teaching the synagogues, it was a very relational environment. That, I think, is the difference between the classical model, which will focus very much on academics and reasoning, right? So they go through a certain, you know, the dialect model and all these things. They're going to go through, I tried that and my head exploded. It's just not for me. Like, Sam loved it. Some people, it will be. Like Sam Sorbo loves the classical education model, and that's the freedom thing about homeschooling.

I have a bunch of friends that do it all differently, and nobody's mad at each other. We're all just like, what's working for you? Right. So I think unschooling is another one. What's that? So unschooling, and I didn't used to believe it, just like with Kinescentic learner, someone said, you know, look at this mom, she's unschooling. I'm like, well, that's the lazy mom who's saying, you know, you go over there and play Play-Plo all day long and we'll talk about it at the end of the day. until I met a homeschool mom who unschooled her kid into Harvard.

And what she, it was amazing. And what she did and she, I'm still, I'm not an unschooler. I need more structure than that. But it does work and I've seen it work. So I don't make fun of it anymore because I've seen it work a whole lot. So basically these unschoolers are given opportunities. So it's like my idea of finding out, you know, where is my child bent? Because I want to fold them along the bend.

these guys are giving tremendous freedom to their kids. And so they're usually reading at their own pace. They learn to write on their own. And don't knock it until you try it because I have seen a lot of success come out of the unschool movement. And so like I said, it's not for me because I'm too much of a type of personality. But I think the traditional school at home is another one. So that would be companies like a Becca and an ACE where you order all of your curriculum from a company and it comes in and everybody gets their own workbook. And I really had a very slow metamorphosis from starting out with all workbooks because it's what I knew into and it's confidence that does it. Yeah. So I think start with what feels comfortable to you. If you just go, I think I want to do school at home with workbooks, great. Start that way. I think you start with what you feel comfortable with. And then you'll notice as you grow with your kids, the confidence begins to come. And you'll be willing to try new things. And so we just started trying new things. And as we did it, I learned how my kids absorb information and the best way that I can teach them. And it takes time. And you're going to make mistakes. You're going to make mistakes. It's okay. Bad days don't make bad moms.

And moms need to understand. Your kids are worth it. And you know what? I love that the Bible teaches us that love covers a multitude of sins. Because now that my kids are mostly grown and they come home and we're all around the Thanksgiving, you know, dinner table or whatever. And they're talking, sometimes I'm the butt of a lot of jokes. I'm not going to lie. At the dinner table, the kids are like, remember that time that mom, absolutely lost her mind. But if you asked them, you know, what was your favorite thing about it, those were the seasons that I felt like I was failing. Okay. As it turned out, God was working. And what is the difference really? Because it's kind of confusing. They're so similar. Waldorf, Montessori, what is it, Reggio or something? I don't know what that one is. I feel like some of this stuff, like so Waldorf is basically a system of education. I don't know very many homeschoolers that do it. I mean, if you're going to do Waldorf, you do it. I just think a lot of ribbons.

Yeah, lots of that. Maybe that's why I don't know a lot of home scores would do it. Or maybe they're doing it and they don't know they're doing it. I don't know. But to me, the Montessori's for the Kinesinic learners, right? These are the kids that were, it's a lot of hands on. I actually love it. I'm obsessed. I got to find, I think it's called Wondergarten. You've got to find her on Instagram. Oh, no. Are you obsessed? The way that I am obsessed, one of my favorite Instagrams right now and she is killing it. And isn't she in Washington? Yes. She's not too far from me. I'm obsessed. She is so cool. Yes, the Wonder Garden Instagram. Oh my gosh. I love their page. I know.

But that's a Waldorf school. It's a Wal-Ref School. It's a very imaginative play focused. And they talk about learning through your head, your heart and your hands or something. So they're always cooking, talking about feelings, reading stories. They got their hands on the dirt. Yes. Yeah, I love it.

All right. No matter what the weather is there out of like. Nope. Nope. And when I first saw her, I thought it was a homeschool family. That's what I thought. And then I'm like, oh, she's teaching Wallerf in her home. Lots of songs.

Oh, my word. I'm upset. It's so cute. It's so sweet. And you can see these kids are getting a great education. There's so many ways to educate kids that when we can say you're all day long and talk about different styles. But what I want is for you got to go to a homeschool conference. There are wonderful homeschool conferences all around the country. And I think you'll get exposed to all kinds of things. I want to go so bad, but I just know it would be so weird. Girl, you should come with me. No, come with me. Really? Oh, yeah. I would love it.

You know what I'm going to do the next home school conference that I host. I'm going to teach a sourdough master class. No, I have to go. I'm obsessed. I love that this is becoming the ultimate homeschool episode. Like we're getting into so many things I didn't even expect. We can talk about chickens. All the things. All the things.

All the things. What if you surprised your daughter or your best friend with tickets to the young women's leadership conference in Dallas next week and said, guess what? We're going. What if you decided for yourself? Screw it. It's last minute. But I'm tired of feeling lonely.

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slash YWLS with code POPLITICs for a discount. That's TPUSA.com slash YWLS with code Poblitics or click the link in the show notes. Do your kids just sit at home all day? No. So here's a thing. Actually, I think it is more challenging for homeschool moms now than it was even 25 years ago. There are so many things for homeschoolers to do now that if you took advantage of them, you'd never be home. You'd be out all day, every day. And so I was one of the things I tell mom, because I teach homeschool classes, I always say you've got to have at least two days at home because otherwise they're going to be gone. They're going to be at the library. They're going to be on field trips. They're going to be at the

homeschool co-op. You know, a lot of these, the newer generation of homeschool moms, I'm watching them getting their kids into shadowing. So like I knew a mom that took her kid down and they shadowed a vet once a week. Yeah. You know, all kinds of really cool things. The possibilities are absolutely endless. And I would actually like to see more moms have the freedom to stay home because there's so many things to do. And I think, you know, it used to be, you had, you know, five options for curriculum. And now there's 150,000 options. but nobody is just staying home unless, of course, you want to. What would be some reasons to not homeschool or who is not a good candidate for homeschooling?

You know, I think people that genuinely have, if there's relationship problems in the home, I always tell people if you've got the only, the only scenario that, and I'm hardcore about this, so the only scenario I think that is detrimental is when a husband and wife don't agree. when you have this friction between the husband and the wife and one partner says absolutely no, and then it becomes a power struggle. And your kid is in the middle of that. I don't like that. I feel like there are not very many people who can't actually do it. All the excuses that I hear as a general will. I mean, if somebody's bipolar, you've got a very serious physical problem. You've got a child with really significant special needs. My sister is a really good example. One of my nephews has pretty significant. special needs and she's working with him through the public school system and on an IEP and all

kinds of things for that. But as a general rule, there aren't very many questions that homeschooling can't answer. So I feel like there are lots of kids who have special needs, not on the spectrum maybe that my nephew is, but they can be addressed at home through a little bit of care and just a little bit of extra time. But if people talk to me about money all the time, and people come, and they throw things at me all the time, well, I can't homeschool because this, I can't homeschool because of that. And I just am like, yes, you can. Yes, you could. Now, what about these homeschool kids being jungle freaks and, you know, whatever they say. They're weird.

They're unsocialized. They're like, they're like Nell. Remember the movie Nell? I do. Yeah. Take day in the wind. You know, they can't speak. They can't ride.

They're just total weirdos. I mean, what about that? Well, I know some total weirdos that are in the public school system. So let's talk about that. When people say to me, you know, oh, I could never homeschool my kids because what about socialization? And I was like, oh, so happy you brought that up. Socialization. And that is the reason I'm homeschooling my kids.

Oh, I had a girl. I went to public school almost my entire life. And there was a girl who wore like an animal tail. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's all next level now, man. But that's what, oh, well, totally next level. But there are weird people everywhere.

There are weird people that you work with. There are weird people you go to school with that you play sports with, that go to church with. There's always weird people. I always say, are you weird. Well, depending on how weird you are, your kid's going to be that weird. Oh, man. Alex, you and I are going to get along so good. You know, I want to say like 10 years ago I was on Glenn Beck's radio or TV show with him.

Yeah. He was talking about homeschooling. I love Glenn. And he was like, Heidi, I mean, come on. Homchooling. Your kids are going to be weird. And I said, Glenn, you're going to homeschool your kids? They're going to be as weird as you are.

How weird are you, Glenn? He was like, okay, all right. That's the thing. Because that's the point. Your kids are going to be as weird as you are. If your goal in homeschooling your kids is to just keep them home all day and not to not to go outside or do anything, I mean, that's weird. But what about missing out on milestones like that? like prom or team sports. I actually think those are legitimate, legitimate things that we should be

talking about. When our, when our oldest daughter was going into high school, she started looking around at some of the kids that were in the public school. And I could tell, you know, she was like, am I missing out? I mean, hello, we all did that stuff. And I want to say to her, no, you not, you know, but she doesn't know that because she has an idea in her head. So what we did was we just did our own. We, and it's still going to this day. And I want to say like 60 kids showed up and they had a hoot and hollering good time. And we've done that every year since then. So it's been 15 years, I guess, and I don't run it anymore. Other people do. But I always think if your kids, I think we should be willing to have conversations with our kids. And a lot of the kids that I know

are playing sports, they can play sports either in a league of their own or they can play for the public school system. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Yeah, I mean, there's really the sky is the limit. You're determining, I think parents need to understand this about homeschooling. It doesn't mean that you do everything. It means you're in the driver's seat of your child's education. So you're determining the way that they're going to be learning, who they're going to be around. It's a brilliant way to raise children because it frees the mom up to be able to say, I'll do this, but I won't do that, right, and not feel responsible for everything. There are so many resources for homeschooling families now, sports and theater. We just did Annie, the musical at

the homeschool resource center. And in the winter, they did the Chronicles of Narnia. My daughter is dancing on point this year. This is her eighth year of taking ballet at the homeschool resource center and she's dancing on point. There are so many, it's a misnomer that these kids are not socialized, that they don't have opportunities. The opportunities are everywhere. You just need to look for them. Are they really getting the same type of diversity in their peers as they would at public school? I mean, aren't all homeschool families the exact same? Everybody's white, Christian, and conservative. No, I mean, obviously that's not true. But I also would say they're not getting the same diversity that they're getting at the public schools. Thank God, right? I mean,

for goodness sake, do I want my kid around kids that are going to, they're going to tell him, oh, listen, I'm genderqueer today. Do I want that? I mean, I'm trying to decide for my children when their minds are developing and their heart are developing. What do I want them to be around? I think it's really important for us to make that decision as parents, and it's not wrong to do it. The Bible says that bad company corrupts good characters. So do I want my kids subjected at the age of four and five and six and seven and eight to every, every worldview known to man. No, I don't. And I don't think that that's wrong. And we've been told by a woke culture that somehow, if I'm not incorporating diversity, equity, inclusion into my homeschool, that that's wrong. But I'm training my children

up right now in the way that they should go. And so it's not homogenous. The homeschool movement is anything but homogenous. I think you're going to see there's all races, all religions. Oh, my goodness. All races, all religions. Would you run into that at these homeschool conferences. There's all types of people. Oh, yeah, all types of people. And it's funny because the movement, which really did start as a Christian conservative movement, is very, very big now. And so there are lots of, in fact, I was laughing. I was looking the other day up for at a homeschool conference and I saw a Wiccan homeschool conference. Why? I was literally thinking, I bet there is one. And there was a big sticker and it said, we're pagan and we vote. And I'm just laughing. I'm howling. I'm like,

wow, we have unavolved. Okay. You know. But, but, but, I think there is no one-size-fits-all into homeschooling. I always like to go back to telling parents, the homeschool movement is I love my kids movement. The homeschool movement is a freedom movement. It allows me to expose my kids to all kinds of opportunities and find out how to fold them along the bend that they came to me with. And then give them wings and let them see what God's going to do with their life. It's a thrilling thing to be able to watch your kids grow and develop and look back on it and go, man, thank you, God, that was all you. I figure when I, when I get to heaven, this is what

going to look like, Alex. I'm going to get there. My hair's going to be on fire. My knees are going to be skinned up. And God's going to go, wow, you look bad, but you're here. You made it. You made it. Good job. You know. And I feel like we're expending energy on our kids. There's just not a better place to put your treasure and your time and your energy and your heart into your kids. And Alex, it goes by fast. It really, really does. And I hear the, you know, the culture talking to moms about how, you know, get a career and there's so many better things you could be doing with your life. And I'm like, man, your life is going by, you know, invest in the things that are going to actually take you all the way through to the end. And I feel that way about

education. If you've got kids and they're in the public school system, you're missing out. True or false, you can homeschool as a single parent or a two-parent full-time working household. Ding, true. It's true. It's true. And I have actually a lot of single mom friends that are homeschooling. And the way that they do it is really creative. And so you'll see moms that are co-opping with other moms or they're getting help from their parents or they're hiring tutors. You've got to take your mind out of this homeschooling is an eight-hour-a-day thing. It really isn't. But for me, I was working a lot.

I mean, I'm a working mom. I've written eight books while I've been homeschooling our children. I worked nights at the hospital for many years. And I tried to craft the time that I had around the kids wake up out. so that when I was working, I was working at night. When I wrote books, I wrote books for the most part at night in the evening hours when I was done with school. And so I do think it's a myth that you can have it all.

I wish that we would stop saying that, you know, you can have it all. No, you can't. You have to choose. You have to choose. And so the question becomes, what's important to you? What do you really want to do? What do you want to look back on in these years with your kids and say, we did this, we accomplished that?

For me, I want my kids to walk with God. I want to be in relationship with my kids. I want them to love to be around each other. And I think those things have been accomplished. They still squabble. They're siblings, right? But we really eeked the most out of their growing up years. But you can absolutely work and homeschool your kids.

You can absolutely – is it harder? Yes. Is it harder? It's harder to be a single mom in general. But it's doable. And I think it goes back to where there's a will, there's a way. And when people say to me, oh, you know, we're a two-income household. I was just in Alaska and we were having this conversation with a whole bunch of, because Alaska is one of the second most populated states for homeschooling.

They have the second largest homeschool population there. Probably because half of the year you're stuck inside. You're snowed in or it's dark out all day long or whatever. You know what the main reason is? What? The government gives them $4,000 per kid. Whoa. Is that something that every state should be doing anything?

Nope. Oh, no. And see, right? This is my thing. Like, do not take the government money. and I spent a lot of time talking to it. And these moms are like, but we need the government money because I want my kids to take violin lessons and I want them in swimming and I want them in this.

And I finally just said, why? Why do they have to be in those things? We really need to start doing a heart check. And we've decided, oh, we'll take a handout from the government so that my kid can take violin lessons. And I'm here to tell you right now with shackles come shackles. The moment we start taking money from the government, the government's going to come in and they're going to start demanding accountability and they're going to want control. This is all about control.

They're not giving them money to homeschooling families because they care about homeschool freedom. Okay. So like the state of Arizona, I believe, has done this. Has Governor DeSantis done this in Florida? Yes, I believe. If you don't want to put your kids in public school, you can put that money towards homeschooling or something. But you're saying that's not a good idea. I'm saying I do believe in Florida.

And I didn't study on it today. So I could be wrong. So you guys will have to do your homework on this. I do believe in Florida that the homeschool lobby worked very hard to put language in there that excluded homeschooling. And the reason for people say, why would you want to do that? Absolutely. They're going to give you back some of your tax money. Listen, guys, what they're, what they're really saying at the end of the day is we want you to give up your freedom for money. That's what they're saying. This is about control. It's about them coming in and determining what you can and cannot teach your child, what curriculum you can and cannot use. And as homeschooling grows, and right now, I mean, it's growing exponentially because people are so sick and tired of what's happening in the schools. As homeschooling grows, it will become more and more imperative that we keep that movement free of government interference, of government regulation, and yes, of government money, because the money invites the interference and the regulation. Okay, I'm learning something new because I didn't

ever really consider that before. And listen, I'm a huge, I should, there's a caveat, because I just ran for Congress on this, right? I'm a huge proponent of school choice legislation. I just think it needs to operate within the public school system that's already deeply entrenched in public money. The homeschool movement, the freedom movement, said, we don't need your money. We don't need your advice. We don't want accountability. you because you don't know what you're talking about. I know my kid, you stay out of my house. That's why we don't want to invite their regulation in. And so I have been fighting this from the conservative angle to just say, listen, you guys, you don't understand what you're giving up.

Think about what you're giving up. They're basically bribing you. So that's why I told him in Alaska. I said, the government's bribing you. They're saying for $4,000 because I said, what do you guys have to do in return? Well, we have to go meet with the teachers and tell them what we're doing. Yeah, see, I don't want any of that. I'm doing just fine with my kids. I don't want the government's interference, and once you start taking the money from them, they don't count you as homeschooling anymore. They count you as part of the public school system. And oh, and by the way, so in Washington State, for example, the average amount of money that is spent per child every year in the system is roughly somewhere between $15,000 and $17,000, depending on the district.

So if you homeschool your kid and then they say, what they want to do is give you back some of that money. So they'll say, hey, Alex, I'll give you $1,500. And you go, $1,500, oh my word, I can sign my kid up for piano lessons. And then they take 16,000. See what I'm saying? You just signed your, it's a scam. You just signed your kid up and the district got that money and you got a stipend of it. And now, ding, ding, ding, you're on their radar.

It's a bad deal. All right. You brought up the homeschool resource center that you helped create. Yeah. And then homeschool co-ops. What is the difference? How do people find these things in their areas? So a homeschool cooperative typically meets one day a week. So when we started ours, for example, we met on Fridays and we called it Friday school. And we would come at, you know, 8 o'clock in the morning and we would typically meet at a church somewhere where they have classrooms and auditorium spaces. And then the parents would cooperate with each other and they would teach classes. So like my daughters learned Chinese one year at the homeschool cooperative. And we've done all kinds. I mean, we had a friend who was a CAD drafter, an engineer for Boeing. He came on Fridays and he taught engineering. We're teaching cooking.

We're doing, you know, all kinds of fun stuff. Artistry. This is a massive facility, by the way. Yes. This isn't like a one-room schoolhouse. The co-op started very small. What I showed you is the Resource Center, which is open five days a week. Which is huge.

It looks like a college campus to me. Yeah. It's so exciting. We're so excited. So kids go there all day long? So no. So what we do there, so it's open five days a week and we have over 230 classes that we offer. And so if a mom were to come to me, which happens, oh, every day, come.

and off the street, a lot of times she's crying because she just had enough. You know, her kid came home and said he was trans or whatever, and she's just like, we're out, right? So they come to the homeschool resource center and they say, I can't, I can't homeschool my kid. And our job is to remove all of the obstacles. So I say, what is it that overwhelms you? Well, and if you really start talking about it. What do they say? Well, they'll say, I don't want to do math. That's my thing. Me too. That's my biggest worry. That's my biggest worry. It's okay. It's right. But you could do third grade math, Alice. I can do third grade, but I'm worried about.

You could do fifth grade math. You could. And here's a thing. High school, that freaks me out. Yeah. But that's what we're doing was we're helping people, right? But I always tell parents, what you're doing is you're just taking it one year at a time and you're learning right along with your kids. So when you go into homeschooling, you don't have to have all the answers. You just need to know how to get the answers. Okay. That's it, right? Right. So you're learning right along with your kids. For, you know, the 24 years I've been homeschooling my kids, I know more about American history now than I ever did when I graduated from high school.

And I went to a private academy in Portland, Oregon. And so I'm telling you, we're learning right along with our kids. And if you love your kids and you love learning, you're going to love homeschooling. Okay, so what do co-ops and stuff offer? So I'll tell you the difference. Let me tell you the difference. A homeschool cooperative meets one day a week. It's very limited, but the parents come together and they pool their resources and teach classes.

The homeschool resource center, which my husband and I started in 2017 in Vancouver, Washington, is open five days a week. We've got 230 classes there. We're teaching the Constitution. We've got art class. We've got a full-time beekeeping program there. What? Oh, it's spectacular. We're doing automotive.

Next year we're going to have an aviation program. Cool. So kids can start to learn how to get their pilots license. We're exposing them to woodworking, all kinds of things. I'm telling you, these kids are so much cooler, so much more socialized, smarter. Well, and you know what else? They're interesting. They want to be there.

No one's forcing them to be there. So they want to be there. So they come to the homeschool resource center and they're excited because These are classes they've signed up for. It's like electives. Yes, electives. And some of them are their core classes, but we typically don't allow students. We encourage students not to take more than four classes a semester because we want them learning at home.

And I don't want moms to feel like they're dependent on the homeschool resource center. What I want to do is come alongside you and give you a big homeschool hug and say, hey, girl, you don't want to do algebra? We got you. So this is something that is in Washington State. Is there anything like that anywhere else in the country? There are some models, some people that are starting to copy what we're doing, which is great. There's really no one that's doing exactly what we're doing, but we're getting ready to next level it. Right now, this is something we're really praying about.

And you can be praying with us, Alex. We're looking for investors so that we can start buying buildings all across the country. We already have a manual for how to get this thing up off the ground. People can find it on our website, and they can start their own. The buildings are what holds people back. Think about the public school system. How do they have these big beautiful buildings? Oh, it's your tax dollars, right?

And so we are trying to figure out a way, how can we buy up buildings and put these learning centers in it? I'm telling you what, it would blow your mind if you came there on any given day to see. We've had, I think, at the last count, there were 1,200 kids that were coming in and of that building every single day. And they're doing everything from choir to mechanics, to math, to the Constitution. and we're watching an entire, like a rebirth of education as people are starting to go, you know what? Maybe I don't have to have my kids in this woke, broken education system. Maybe I can try something different. So this is kind of like homeschooling with training wheels. So people can come and really get a feel for it. And while that's happening, it's not a drop-off either.

So there's a coffee shop there and a bookstore. Ooh. And these are all run by students. So we're teaching the kids how to run their own own businesses, how to do the till at the end of the day, how to grind coffee. So everything is done on purpose with a purpose. There's lots of animals there at the Resource Center, bearded dragons and tarantulas and parrots and all manner of, it's like some Dr. Doolittle thing going on. I don't know. But the kids are learning how to take care of these animals. It's a fantastic art program. I was just looking in on the sculpting. There's a high school sculpting class. And it was, I couldn't even believe it. And I went up to the teacher. I'm like, oh my word, you took these kids who have never

made a sculpture in their lives. It's incredible. So all these kids are getting together, and we've already established that not all homeschool parents are the same. Most of them that are wanting to participate in this probably are Christian conservative families, but Christians and conservatives are not just immune to. Your kid could still, with access to social media or whatever, say, you know, I'm now gender fluid.

Oh, 100%. So, like, what I'm asking with the homeschool resource center that you've created, what is your all's game plan if you have kids that start saying that kind of stuff? that? Well, first of all, we are a membership organization. Ah, okay. This is key. So when people come to, and you don't have to be a Christian, and you don't have to be a conservative, but we want you to know, this is what we expect. Yeah, this is what we believe. This is what we, this is, these are the, the principles that we adhere to. So they sign that. So when they come, they agree to it to a code of conduct. I mean, we're not messing around there, right? I don't want bullying at the homeschool resource center.

They're, they're people. So you're going to have issues no matter what. And we live in a very liberal part of the country. I'm 10 minutes from the Portland airport. That's what I'm thinking about. Yeah, we're in a very liberal part of the country. But because we're a membership organization, they know exactly what they're getting into. They pay membership dues every single year to be there. And that has really cut down on a lot of it. So we, we, like, I think there was one family that came one year and they had a child who wanted to be, go by a different name and a different pronoun. We were like, no, dude, we're not doing that here. Yeah. You know, did they just decide to leave? They did after about. But what's, What's crazy is the mom called and said, you know what, you guys treated our son with kindness, and we thank you for that.

So it's not a, it's more of, this is who we are, this is our identity. We're a Christian organization. We believe the Bible. God said in Genesis 127, I made them male and female in my image. This is in our statement of faith. When people come to the homeschool resource center in Vancouver, they know exactly what they're getting. It's amazing that you're able to do that with your homeschool resource center, but a lot of Christian private schools are not able to do that across the country. Makes you think because, you know, people think that their kids are safe in a, in a,

private school, and I've talked about that before. Absolutely not true. It's a myth. It's a myth. And, you know, you have to determine, and the same thing with churches, right? You can't just go to a church and expect. I mean, otherwise, you wind up in Andy Stanley's church, you know. And then you got all kinds of problems. Then you got all manner of problems. So you need to know what you're getting into. What is the, what is the basis for the belief system at wherever it is you want to send your kid, whether it's a public school or a private school, you need to find out. Well, we know what the public schools is, right? It's a free-for-all. But a lot of Christian schools, same thing with colleges. Oh, my word. You know, you send your kid to a so-called Christian college. And they come out with a

degree in, you know, lesbian dance theory. And you're like, what just happened? You know, so I think it's education, it cannot be more important. I mean, I declare a state of emergency in this country when it comes to the education of our children. And the state of emergency extends to Christian schools. It extends even to homeschooling. You have to be wise. You cannot leave. your discernment at the door, these are your children. They are your responsibility. Do your homework. Find out who's teaching your kids. Find out who your kids are hanging out with. Find out what's behind the classes that are being taught. And we do our homework at the Homeschool Resource Center, and we tell the parents the teachers are required to turn out in a scope and sequence so we know

what's going on. The responsibility belongs to the parents. And I want to give that responsibility back to them and say, hey, let's stop co-opting the raising of our children with everybody else. And we've done this for generations, right? We drop our kids off at church and we expect the youth pastor to train them in theology. And we drop them off at the school and we expect the teachers to train them up academically. And then 18 years go by and we don't know more kids and we can't figure out what happened. Well, we gave them to somebody else. And so the homeschool resource center is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

We've had issues there. I mean, with that many kids and that many families, we've definitely had issues there. But we have a very solid foundation and we know what we believe and everyone who comes there knows. and that's a really good place to start. What about testing? There's a lot of parents worried, well, if I'm homeschooling, how do I even know that my kids are learning everything that they should be? Yeah.

Well, I think testing, so what you want to do when you start homeschooling is you want to find out what your state requirements are. Every state is different. So there's not a standard for it across the country. I recommend that people go to HSLDA. You can go to hslDA.org. That's the Homeschool yield Defense Association. Click on your state.

And then the state laws are there. And they have laws regarding testing. and they vary from state to state. So in Washington state, where I live, our kids are required to test every year. And so, for example, my 12-year-old daughter, Saylor, is being tested this Friday. She's taken the cap five on Friday. And I actually love the test. I know parents that don't. There are lots of different ways to do it. I could actually do it myself at home. I can order a home kit, and I can administer that test at home. I'm having my friend, the wonderful Heather Kate, thank you, Heather. Heather's going to be administering that test for me this Friday with her. And then

it gives me kind of a baseline. But the thing that's important about tests, and I want to make this really clear, not every child is going to be good at testing. And it doesn't mean your child's not smart. It doesn't mean that they're not getting the thing that they need to be learning. It just means they're not good at the test. And for whatever reason in this country, we've adopted, if you're a bad test taker, you're a bad student. If you're a bad test taker, something's wrong with you and you're dumb. That's not true. And there are lots of ways to assess your child And you'll figure it out kind of as you go along. I had one student, oh my word, one of my kids, my sons, one year he was taken the,

I don't know if it was the cat five, I think it probably was. And they're giving the instructions, you know, fill a little bubble, whatever. Well, his best friend Austin's sitting across from him, and they turned the bubble into sketches from Star Wars. And so the teacher, you know, like two weeks later, she's like, we're really talking about your son's test scores. I don't know. He's doesn't in like these three years old or something.

And it's like a drawing of Boba Fett, you know? That's hilarious. And he just, Skyler was just like, don't care. So we had him go back and redo it. But she took the fear out of the test with me. She said, honestly, Heidi, even if this is an accurate representation, I've watched your son. I know he's reading at grade level. He's writing at grade level.

I think let's not worry about the test. When your kids start to get into high school, record key becomes very important. You know, and you can count a whole lot of things as education. right? And so when our kids are out on the road with me, for example, they man the booth for me. I'm an author. I travel all the time. My kids set that booth up. They run the till. They do the sales. They do the shirts, all that. You can bet your bottom dollar. I'm giving them credit for it. So life skills, you can get credit for that. And so you want to keep track of the things that your kids are doing so that you can make a transcript at the end of the year. And then we want to keep record of that every four years. And colleges are looking for homeschooled kids. This is what I want to focus on. Will homeschool kids be at some huge disadvantage compared to other college applicants? People ask me this question all the time. And having had, you know, most of my kids are graduated now, right? Six of my seven are graduated. And I can tell you from experience, these kids are sought after in terms of colleges looking for kids. A lot of them are going to want to kids take the SAT or the ACT. And homeschoolers by far and away are blowing their public. school counterparts out of the water. Absolutely. I saw this on the internet and Spanish.org is a great website for great statistics, but they said that research has shown that homeschooled students have

higher graduation rates when compared to traditional school students. When talking about fall-to-fall retention at college homeschooled students have a retention rate of 88.6 percent, while traditional school students obtained 87.6 percent. So they're saying these kids are going and they're staying and they're doing great. And it's the Ivy League schools that really like them. It's Harvard. It's UC Berkeley and Yale and Dartmouth. Now, to conserve it is we might be like, we hope our kids don't go the route anyway.

But I know some parents are so stuck on. I desperately want an Ivy League kid. That's not out of the picture for you if you decide to homeschool. That's right. And I think you're going to know that. I mean, this is part of getting to know your own child. My friend Michaela, when her son was in seventh grade, he told her he wanted to be an emergency room position.

And I was like, oh, okay. Guess what? He graduated at 17 years old and went on to, I mean, by the time he'd finished, he'd already done a bunch of college credits and he was ready to go. He was clepping out of things. Really smart kids. I love it when these kids are able to graduate high school earlier because they're homeschooled. Yeah. Because they're ready to get out in the real world.

I want those kids out. Yeah, we do. Because we, like you and I were saying before the show, these are the reinforcements and we need them. You know, and so he's an emergency room physician today. He knew exactly what he wanted to do. and he ended up in medical school. I think by the time he was 26, he was an emergency room position. He just knew what he would want to do.

Guess what? That's rare. It's rare. It does happen, but it's rare. Most of these kids are going to come out, and they're still going to falter a little bit, and they're not going to know what they want to do. That's okay. Give them breathing room.

Expose them to lots of things. I want my kids to get a job. I have really, my husband and I have really encouraged our kids to be entrepreneurs and to start their own things. My son, Skyler, is the producer of my podcast, which is coming up on 20 million downloads. That's so cool. I didn't know your son produced.

My son produces it. You should go on show. He could work at Turning Point USA. He could, but you can't have them. I need him. But it's really fun to watch them come up with their own ideas. Our daughter, our daughter who's getting ready to graduate, she wants to open an an assaye bowl restaurant.

She's super into that. We love that. We love that. I said, girl, you should do it at the center. I said, we could give you a room. So she's researching it right now with her sister's summer. What would it take? What are the costs to get this thing up off the ground?

Because she's living in a great part of the country for that particular thing. Oh, you know what I just thought of? I totally forgot about this, but it is true. So Turning Point USA, you know, we have these kids starting Turning Point chapters on their college campuses. We also have homeschool chapters that are set up all over the country for kids that are homeschooled. They can still join a Turning Point chapter. And then they're involved in this conservative group with peers their age. They're coming to Turning Point events across the country.

So we also have that, by the way, for homeschool. kids. I just remember that. Well, and it's, it's, and you guys are doing that because you recognize the caliber of kids that you're attracting. Yeah. And that's the bottom line. That's why MIT, that's why Harvard and Princeton and Duke and Yale are going after homeschool kids. And like, you know, like you pointed out, I mean, most of us are like, hope you don't do that. But they can do it and they're excelling. They're doing great on standardized tests. They're doing, they're flourishing in college. Our daughter Savannah went to my husband's alma mater, Multnomahoma School of the Bible. So became later Multnomahua University when she, graduated from home school. She went there. And it's a pretty academically rigorous program,

a lot of memorization, a lot of late night studying that I remember very well. And they had a parent night and Jay and I went to campus. And one of her professors came up to us and said, what did you do with your daughter? She is leading study groups in like two or three of the classes. And what was funny, I didn't know she was doing this, but she was using a notebook method. So the notebooking method that we did because we created notebooks when we were learning when we were doing a homeschool to sort of help us remember, that's how she was creating study groups and study sheets. And she excelled in the university. And I remember when my first child graduated from high school, I thought, well, this is the end of the grand experiment. I'm either going to be paying for your counseling bills for the rest of my natural life or you're going to do great.

And I'll continue doing it with your younger siblings. And she just did great. She did great. And I cried because when she walked across. that stage and she graduated from our homeschool. I remember my high school graduation, right? You know, there's a whole bunch of people in a room. Typical high school graduation is 400 kids and you only know three of them and you sit there for four hours and wish you weren't there. Yep. Homeschool graduations are pretty small and the way we do it is the kid

walks across the stage and the parents give them a diploma and the parents will usually read a letter to their child. And then the graduate reads a letter to their parents. And all I could think of as I watched this beautiful 18-year-old girl walk across the stage, all of a sudden, me crying over spelling lessons didn't matter anymore, and all of the time that I spent with her going over a long division, which was a lot over and over and over again. It didn't matter. I saw this beautiful young girl who was ready to take her place on the world stage, ready to do what God wanted her to do, and all I could think to say, I couldn't even read my letter, all I could say was, please don't go. Because I loved being with her. And we developed.

that relationship through the process of home education. And she's doing great now. She's a mother herself. And I think, man, I never, I would have missed out on that extraordinary blessing had I listened to the world's wisdom on education and believe the lie that I couldn't school my own kids. It's a lie that you can't do it. And when we believe it, we miss out on God's greatest gift. And that is the gift of spending time with your kids. Don't let anybody take it away from you because it goes by fast. Speaking to this myth that, you know, you can't homeschool if both parents are working or if you're too poor or whatever, the average homeschooler I read, the average homeschooling family has an annual income of $75 to $80,000. Yeah.

And there are families that do it across the financial spectrum. You have super poor families. You have very wealthy families. But on average, is it fair to say that they are somewhere right in the middle? I think it's, I think that's, yeah, absolutely true. And I think most of them fall on the lower. spectrum, honestly, because a lot of those moms choose to stay home. And so then you're talking about even less money than maybe the median would be. And I think that would have described my family

for most of our homeschooling. And we did it on the cheap. We homeschooled on a shoestring. And I learned, that's how I learned unit studies. That's how we took advantage of so many different things. But yeah, anyone can do it. If Heidi St. John can do it. Anyone can do it. I don't know who said this quote, but I always have loved it. God doesn't call the qualified. qualifies the called. What encouragement can you offer to homeschool moms who feel like, Heidi, I'm doing it. I've been doing it. I bought into the homeschool thing, but I just feel like I'm failing. Oh, man. I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier, you know, bad days don't make bad moms. And if you can hang on, we're at the end of the school year right now. And I just got

done saying this in Minnesota a couple weekends ago and at the arc encounter last weekend to homeschool moms. Listen, it's June, right? It's the beginning of summer. And if you've still got, you know, 15 lessons in your math, but close it and be done. Be done. done, take a break, go on a walk with your kids, get to know your kids. I hit the reset button. I think a lot of times we don't give ourselves permission to take the break that we need and then we allow ourselves to get burned out and then we think I can't do it and that cycle of negativity starts to play in our minds.

And when you get to the end and you just think, I can't do this anymore, tie a knot and hang on. There have been so many times in my 25, whatever years of homeschooling all these kids that I thought I'm a bad mom. And I will tell you something. there were lots of times that Jay would come home from work and I'd just be like crying on the couch. Like I forgot to plug the crock pot in and everyone lost their math book. I put your name on that book and I gave you a cubby for the book with your name on it.

Let's do math kids. We can't find our books, right? And Jay would come on from work and I would just feel like a failure. And there was one point in particular when he came on. I think we had six kids at this time and he walked in the house and I was on the couch just feeling sorry for myself. And I felt like I didn't, I wasn't doing the thing I wanted to do. and I was impatient with my kids. And I was just listening to the devil, honestly, you know, telling me, you know, your kids

be better off in school. No, they wouldn't. You know, my kid's worst day at home is better than their best day in this indoctrination camp known as the public school, right? But my husband, in his wisdom, got down on his knees right eye level with me. And he said, Heidi St. John, look at me. Look at me in the eyes. And I was like, okay.

And he goes, ordinary women would be dead by now. Oh, my God. And I love. And I just said. Really? You know? And he goes, yes, he goes, girl, you could wear those yoga pants again. Wear them tomorrow.

I love it. Five more days is working for me. He's like, whatever that messy thing is you're doing with your hair, it's working. It looks good. Yeah, you look good, girl. Now, we both knew he was lying, right? Ordinary women would be dead by now. What is fire.

Yes, yes. And you know what, in that moment, you know what? He made me want to do that encouragement, that reminder which came straight from God. It reminded me that what I was doing mattered. And it wasn't about the math lesson and it's not about whether or not you made chicken parmesan at just the right temperature and got it on the table at 6 p.m.

It's about hanging in there for the hearts of your kids. It's about staying in there. It's not about patience. It's about perseverance. It's about knowing why you're doing what you're doing. And Jay's words to me that night made me want to be a better mom.

Home schooling takes a lot of courage. You're going to have family that doubts you. You're going to have friends that doubt you. Social media is going to judge you despite that. Has it been worth it? Oh, man. I do it all over again.

I told you, my number six graduating, and I've been speaking all over the country, and everywhere I go to Todd and says, you can't talk to me about homeschool graduation this year because this is my on year, which means there's going to be one and I'll just cry. Because it is the best thing I've ever done for my family was to take my kids out of that broken system and reclaim their hearts and minds. Best thing, not perfect by any stretch, but the very best thing we've ever done for our kids. And I believe that if we could get a love for our kids, a strong enough love for our kids that we wanted to take back the reins of their education, I think we'd see a revival and a reversal in this nation so big that it would reverberate for generations. Education is the front line of the culture war.

Our kids are being damaged every single day. And we're sending our kids there and we're saying, well, we don't have the money. Well, we don't have the time. And I'm asking parents, what are you willing to sacrifice? so that you can bring your kids home because that's what it comes down to. And we need to start having those hard conversations. So if they want to do it and they're prepared to start homeschooling, they're going to pull their kids out of school, starting this year, my kids aren't going back to school. First step, what do you do? First step, I think, is to, well, first step is to breathe,

right? And I always tell parents, take some time and debrief a little bit, right? You don't have to jump in on September 1st and have all your decks in a row. The first thing you want to do is find out what the law is in your state for homeschooling. So again, HSLDA.org, and they will usually have the paperwork for you, the link, whatever you need in Washington State. It's very easy in Arizona. It's very easy. The second thing I always tell people to do is find a homeschool group near you. Find some sort of support. Oh, my word, they're all over the internet. So if it was me and I was starting out and I'm in Vancouver, Washington, I would literally go, you know, a search engine that wasn't Google. I would literally say homeschooling groups in Vancouver, Washington, and I guarantee you a million

of them are going to pop up. Also, hslda.org has groups in your area. You can click on your state and find them. I think that that piece is really important, that we find our people, right? You need a mom who's like, girl, you look, are having a bad day. I'll be there in 10 minutes with a mocha and extra whip, right? You need that. And then outside of that, I think just research, you know, start look, go to curriculum store, start looking online, see what's out there. There are so many wonderful things. I studied botany with my kids one year from Apology of Science. And And because they saw it at a homeschool curriculum fair and they're like, Mom, this looks like fun. And I mean, guys, I cannot keep houseplants alive.

I have like a black thumb. And I thought botany. B is for botany and boring. This is going to mean, it's all boring. But I picked up the book and I read it to my kids and, oh, my word, botany is not boring. It's amazing. We had so much fun. It turns out that there's a fern in the Pacific Northwest that reproduces using the classic egg and sperm thing.

God thought was a good idea when it rains. The puddle forms around this particular. species of fern and that drops the sperm into the water and oh my word the conversations Alex that we had I bet oh my it was hilarious it was so much fun I had so much fun with my kids and we're going out and picking petals off of flowers and we're studying the anatomy of a plant it's amazing what happens when you just say you know what Lord show me how you want me to do this and there's a hundred different ways to do it and what worked one year might not work the next year or you might say you know what we did this this year let's try this the next year and eventually you find a rhythm so no excuse

There's no excuses why parents shouldn't be homeschooling. There's not a good one. No, there isn't a good one. And like I said earlier, I'm done soft-shoewing this because our children are literally being stolen from us via this woke education system. Now, what is your podcast and what do you cover on there? So I cover everything. So it's called Off the Bench with Heidi St. John, and it airs five days a week.

And I'm talking about politics. I ran for Congress. So obviously, politics is very important to me. I'm talking about politics. I'm talking about the culture. the tagline of that show at the end of every show I usually say I'll see you right back here tomorrow at the intersection of faith and culture. So we're talking about faith and culture and really at the intersection because I believe, and we've seen for generations now, the church has decided it's the gospel or, the gospel or politics, the gospel or education, the gospel or medicine, the gospel or entertainment. And I think that the gospel was meant to always be the gospel and.

So it's the gospel and politics, the gospel and education. So I'm talking about everything. Everything is interesting to me. Me too. I just did a whole episode on Target because why not? Yeah. Why I stopped going to Target, you know? And I love honesty.

I love honest conversations. I had the CEO of Newsmax on recently. We've been taught. Kirk Cameron's come on my show. If someone's interesting to me, I'm going to have them on the show and just hear what they have to say. I just had Dr. Sherry 10 Penny on. I think she airs tomorrow. So a lot of, I did a ton of stuff during COVID because I was horrified the whole time.

I couldn't believe we gave up our freedom for a false sense of security. I just could not believe it. It just went against everything I understand about this country's founding and why freedom is so important. So we spent a lot of time talking about that. I like everything. Everything's interesting to me. And what's your Instagram? Heidi St. John.

Easy. Heidi St. John, and there's some fake ones and you'll know the real one because people are there. I like this. This is the ultimate homeschool episode. Everyone can do it. Yes, even you. Heidi, thank you for coming on the spillover.

Absolutely. Have me back. I love it. Come on my show. I'd love to have you. Okay. We'll talk about all the things. All the things.

All the pop culture tings. All of it. Heidi is such a powerhouse, isn't she? She speaks so much truth, encouragement, and also has a fantastic sense of humor. I totally clicked with her if you couldn't tell. I would die to go to a homeschool conference with her. So, Heidi, if you're listening, I hope you follow through on that. I try to be very aware of who my audience is at all times.

I know that even though I am not in that season yet, most of you are navigating marriage and raising kids. And my goal is to always throw in guests who I know that you will relate to, but who can also educate the non-moms like me so that we are more prepared for our own seasons of motherhood or encouraged to stand up for what's right in our own communities, even if we don't have kids. If you liked this episode, then go back and listen to you. to season four, episode 14, that I did with Rebel Educator founder Hannah Frankman.

We talk education without any of the wokeness stuff. That's all completely out of it. She lays out an amazing argument for how public education is completely failing our kids just from a purely learning standpoint, okay? Like reading, writing, and arithmetic, all of that. So if you have people in your life who aren't necessarily conservative that you still want to convince on homeschooling, that is the episode for them. Spillover is back next Thursday at 9 p.m. Pacific, midnight Eastern, wherever you get your podcast. And I am talking to a fascinating woman who was responsible for writing most of the feminist propaganda in women's magazines in the 60s and 70s. She will explain exactly how the brainwashing

of women was a calculated strategy all those years ago. All episodes are available to watch on the Poplix YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love you, mean it. Bye.