Dan Snow's History Hit - An Audacious Heist at the National Gallery

Episode Date: February 27, 2022

Please note that this episode contains spoilers from the film ‘The Duke’.Kempton Bunton was a taxi driver who stole Goya’s portrait of the Duke of Wellington from the National Gallery in London. It was the first and remains the only, theft in the Gallery’s history. Kempton proceeded to send ransom notes declaring that he would only return the painting on the condition that the government invest more in care for the elderly, specifically bringing attention to his long-running campaign for pensioners to receive free television.With Dan currently away in Antarctica, Matt Lewis, from the ‘Gone Medieval’ podcast, stepped in to make sure that you did not miss out on this caper that details the theft and the following trial. Matt is joined by Kempton Bunton's grandson, Chris, for a discussion of ‘The Duke’ and the remarkable true story behind the film.‘The Duke’ is in UK cinemas from 25th February.If you'd like to learn more, we have hundreds of history documentaries, ad-free podcasts and audiobooks at History Hit - subscribe today! To download the History Hit app please go to the Android or Apple store.

Hi everybody, welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit. Now as you know, I am in the Antarctic at the moment. I'm in the icebound Weddell Sea. I am sheltering inside an Antarctic survey vessel, outside blizzards batter the superstructure of the ship, and at the end of this ordeal on ice, we have to look forward to crossing the roughest stretch of water on planet Earth, get back to South Africa. That's how my day's going. You, however, I hope are having a very different experience. And the fact you're listening to this podcast, I hope means you're tucked up somewhere safe and warm. In this podcast, the brilliant Matt Lewis, my fellow presenter, my colleague from Gone Medieval podcast, he's going to be talking to Chris Bunton. Chris Bunton is the grandson of Kempton Bunton. Kempton Bunton is now famous

because there's a movie all about him called The Duke. This, my friends, is a podcast about the Duke of Wellington, but not like any of the other many podcasts I've done about the Duke of Wellington. This is about the portrait of the Duke of Wellington that was stolen by a 60-year-old taxi driver, Kempton Bunton, from the National Gallery in London. It's the only painting ever stolen

from the National Gallery in London. It's the only painting ever stolen from National Gallery in London and he left a series of ransom notes declaring that he would only return the painting when the government invested in more care for the elderly. This has now been made into a film. It is such a brilliant story even though I'm away and didn't get a chance to interview Chris. I thought it was such a great story. I wanted to get Matt on it and bring this one to you. I think you'll find it absolutely gobsmacking. If you want to watch programmes about the Duke of Wellington or listen to other podcasts, let me tell you, I've got some. I've got plenty, in fact. The programme about Battle of Waterloo on History Hit TV is one of our top performing shows on there. If you follow the link in the description of this podcast, you get taken to History Hit TV. It's like Netflix for history. We've got hundreds of documentaries on there.

We've got all the podcasts without the ads. You're going to absolutely love it. So please go and check that out. Just click on that little link in the description. It'll be the beginning of a lifelong relationship with Team History Hit. We're obviously making lots of Antarctic Explorer documentaries while we're down here in the frozen south. But in the meantime, folks, here's the very brilliant Matt Lewis talking to Chris Bunton.

Enjoy. A slight warning here. This episode does contain some spoilers for the film. And I'm delighted to be joined today by Kempton's grandson, Chris Bunton, who's here today to tell us all about his grandfather, his father, and the film. who's here today to tell us all about his grandfather, his father and the film. Chris, thank you very, very much for joining us here on Dan Snow's History Hit podcast today. Thanks for having me on.

Wonderful. I mean, you're here to tell us about one of the most incredible stories of the 20th century that many people may well never have heard of. I'm going to do a very unhistorian thing here and tell you I had not heard the story of the Duke until the film was coming along and I did a bit of research and I was absolutely captivated and fascinated by the story. I mean, did you grow up knowing all of the details of this story? Yeah, kind of. The first that I heard of it, I was 14 years old on a ferry trip with my dad and he'd had a few too many drinks and he let it slip but even back then I didn't actually understand the sheer scale of it and it wasn't until really 2011 when I actually got more interested in the story so kind of I guess I had some inside information but it was

really just forgotten about it wasn't something that was talked about in the family and it wasn't something my dad was proud of. Like I say, he did mention it that one time, but he didn't really discuss it again until years later when I came back to him asking questions for the project that I was involved in. And so for those that don't know, we're in 1961 here and we're talking about your grandfather, so your dad's father, Kempton Bunton, who seems like an absolutely incredible character. Did you know your granddad at all? No, I didn't actually. He passed away the same year that I was born, so I didn't know anything about him. And my dad actually didn't mention anything about him

either, or his side of the family. So I actually knew very little. And looking at that now, I believe the reason that he didn't discuss the family is because it was too painful for him. There was a lot of tragedy in the family, some of which is covered in the Duke, but there was actually a lot more tragedy. So I think it was a little bit painful for him to talk about. And then in 2011, when it was 50 years to the day of the heist itself, and there was a lot of interest in the public domain at that point, and there was quite a few articles written. I was actually living in New York at the time and a little bit homesick, I guess. So I was tracking along with everything. And obviously I had the inside information so I can see what was accurate and what wasn't. And there was a lot of information that was released that was accurate.

And then some of it wasn't accurate. And I felt some of it was a little bit unfair to my grandfather. So that kind of planted a seed in my mind to really tell his full story. So at that stage, I'd done more research. So I felt like I did know him better at this point because I actually had access to all of his plays and writings. And one of them was memoirs of his life story, which I read, which was very interesting because like I say, my dad didn't say much, but reading his memoirs pretty much gave his full backstory, his childhood, the jobs that he had and his beliefs in terms of how he felt society should be equal, et cetera. So I felt like I got to know him through reading his writings more than anything else. And then on the back of that, I did quiz my dad in depth when I was kind of doing

more research and got further information off my dad. So I do feel like I've got a very good understanding of who he is now, even though it took a while to get there. It sounds like that idea of setting the record straight and wanting to fight for a cause must be something that runs in the family then, because you must share that with your grandfather, from what we understand from the film. I mean, the heist that you mentioned, we're talking about the only painting ever to be stolen from the National Gallery in London in its entire history. And that was done by your grandfather. Yeah, well, he was involved in the whole heist, correct. And it was pretty amazing the way that it happened. It was 1961, the painting of the Duke of Wellington had actually just been purchased by

the government to keep it in the country. In fact, it was an American collector that was going to purchase it, take it outside the country. And so the government to keep it in the country. In fact, it was an American collector that was going to purchase it, take it outside the country. And so the government stepped up and I believe they got a grant and then they put some of their own money towards paying to keep it in the country and they spent £140,000. And that was all over the news. So at the time, my dad was living in Newcastle

and I believe he was still living at home with my granddad. And they saw it on the news and my dad was working on the taxis at the time and without actually discussing anything with Kempton he just had an idea in his head and he thought I want to go to London check out this painting and so he went to London and then he had 50p in his pocket and he had to get a job to fund his stay and he literally just had an idea at this stage that he wanted to know if it would be possible maybe to nab this painting so he went to the gallery and he put some fluff behind the painting which was on a special exhibition on the central stairs as you go in the gallery and

then he got a gallery map from reception where you could see the light shafts and where the light would be reflecting he went to the men's toilets and put some tape on the light shafts and where the light would be reflecting. He went to the men's toilets and put some tape on the toilet door lock and he put a matchstick on the toilet window. And he did all of that just to check if the doors were locked, the window was locked, and if the painting was moved overnight. And then he went back the following day and everything was intact. So he realized that nothing was moved or locked and so all the way through this keep in mind that he just turned 20 years old and he wasn't really that serious about going through with it and all the way through he was prepared to back out at any point if anything went wrong he would

have walked away but he said since then that everything just fell into place and it was almost like God was helping him kind of proceed through all of the steps to get the painting. And then he could see the back of the gallery from the library next door. And in the back of the gallery, there was a builder's yard and there was a ladder in the builder's yard, which he could use to get to the men's toilets. And then he learned from a guard which time the cleaners were in, in the morning. So he planned it to go in when the cleaners were in, when the alarms would be turned off. He went to a thrift store. I think he got an old commissioner's coat and a taxi driver hat so that you would blend in from a distance if a guard spotted him.

And then he went there the night of. He got a car and then he left the car outside the gallery, literally went in up the ladder through the window, straight away, got the painting. There was no guards to be seen out the way he came in. Although he did think that he would be able to open the gates from the inside, but they were padlocked, so he couldn't. So he had to climb over the 12-foot wall and then he had to jump down from the 12-foot wall. I think there was barbed wire on the top

and he used his left hand to grab the barbed wire to kind of brace his fall. And then he had the Duke in his right hand. You know, he's lucky he didn't damage the painting. And then he jumps down and then puts the painting in the back of the car that he had. He has to push start the car down the street. And then as he gets around the corner from the gallery, he gets flagged down by a policeman who berates him because he's going the wrong way down the one way system. So it tells him which way to go. And the Duke's on full view in the back seat of the car then he suddenly

got the painting and he's in London and he doesn't know what to do because he never expected to get that far hadn't planned that far ahead he hadn't planned that far ahead so then the next thing he does he calls his dad and tells him that he has a painting and then his dad takes over from that point. You listen to Dan Snow's History. We're talking about the Juke of Wellington being stolen from the National Gallery. More coming up. Have you ever thought about sex in ancient Rome? Perhaps you've pondered over the origins of civilisation. Or maybe you've had restless nights contemplating where Alexander the Great's lost tomb might be. I know I have. If so, we've got the perfect remedy. It's the Ancients on History hit. The Ancient History Podcast. We've got interviews with leading

experts on all of the above and so much more. So why not give the podcast a listen? Subscribe to the Ancients on History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. details and latest groundbreaking research from the greatest millennium in human history. We're talking Vikings, Normans, Kings and Popes, who were rarely the best of friends, murder, rebellions and crusades. Find out who we really were by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. I mean it all sounds so speculative and daring and it sounded a little bit like maybe your dad was hoping something would go wrong somewhere to stop him from doing this but every time he took a step forward nothing went wrong until he ended up with this painting in the back of his car yeah exactly and I think for my dad obviously I know him well and the way that his mind works I think it was more of a he wanted to see if he could

solve a puzzle almost and it was more curiosity on his part and like you say yeah I think just everything kept on working out for him it's like like the stars aligned, really. And funnily enough, since then, the stars have continued to align. They aligned for Magrande when he kind of took over as well and then went to the trial and things pretty much worked out as well as they possibly could have. And then they've also aligned with this film in terms of myself. I put this together, put together kind of a draft, novice screenplay myself,

but then reached out to British production companies because it's such a British story. The stars aligned there as well. The right producer took control of it, Nikki Bentham, and she's just done a fantastic job, brought on the best possible director.

Unfortunately, obviously, he's no longer here with us and brought on the best possible cast and brought on fantastic writers as well so it's funny it seems like the stars have been aligning with the Duke and my family for over 60 years now and it's kind of we're entwined in each other's stories almost part of our family now. Yeah I think this story having gone to such great lengths to bring itself into existence is now demanding to be told and I think we all need to hear it and I mean if nothing

else your grandparents are being played by Jim Broadbent and Helen Mirren I mean that's pretty amazing two national treasures playing your grandparents story yeah absolutely and it still hasn't sunk in yet I don't think it's going to sink in for another 10 years we couldn't have dreamed for a better two actors to play the parts and Jim Broadbent is just perfect he's able to convey the quirks of my grandfather, who definitely was a flawed character. He wasn't a superhero by any means, but Jim's been able to make him as lovable as possible while conveying his flaws at the same time. And then Helen playing my grandma is just does a fantastic job as well. My grandma looked after the family and she was really the unsung hero of a family.

And for me, she's up there with the Queen. So Helen playing that role was quite fitting, really. And I think she did just as good a job playing my Geordie grandma as she did when she played the Queen. Yeah, they definitely come across brilliantly in the film. And so as part of your granddad's story, when they get this painting back to Newcastle, it's used in your granddad's campaign to get free TV licences for war veterans, war widows and pensioners and things like that. Was that something that he was interested in previously? We see him in the film campaigning about that before. Was that a cause that he already had? Yeah, absolutely. So he was very committed to that campaign and he was actually started running that

campaign in the 50s. He was so committed to the point that he actually spent three different separate stints in jail for refusing to pay his TV license. He even blocked his TV so that he could only receive IDV at one point and felt, well, I can't receive it, so I shouldn't have to pay. And he was on the local news a number of times as well. But he was very committed to that cause. And I think one of his main drivers was his own father. His own dad came back from World War One and he got disabled. He lost his legs in World War I and he ended up disabled and somewhat isolated. And then my grander, Kempton, was also a wannabe kind of self-taught writer.

So he did spend a lot of time. He was an avid BBC watcher. Before he blocked his TV, he used to, back then, you've got to keep in context that the BBC was really the main full-time channel. There was no other full-time channel. ITV at the time, I think, was part-time. So Kempton recognised the importance and the value of the BBC in terms of what it can do

for isolated characters and more often than not pensioners are more isolated than the rest of us and he saw that TV could be a cure for loneliness for such characters as his own dad who would be sitting alone by himself and at that time as well in working class Newcastle as well there there was really, and I know my grandparents' family, they barely had two pennies to string together. So for such characters, it was a lot to fork out for the TV. And he felt that society should be equal and we should take care of those in need. And that was his goal really, just to do something to improve the lives of such characters. Yeah. And in 1961, I suppose he's still surrounded as well by people who have come back 15, 16 years earlier from World War II and are still dealing with the consequences and the effects of all of

that. And he's looking for something for them that they should have, almost as a thank you, I guess. We forget how close 1961 really was to the Second World War still. Yeah, absolutely. And I think with regards to pensioners specifically, that he also felt that, you know, they've worked all their life and a lot of them are war veterans who served their country in extraordinary ways. He truly believed that we shouldn't kind of tax them for watching TV, I guess. And like you say, it was very close. Like today, life for the working class is a lot easier than it was back then. We've got so many different avenues of entertainment, etc. Then it was very close. Like today, life for the working class is a lot easier than it was back then. We've got so many different avenues of entertainment, et cetera.

Then it was literally the BBC or the radio and read a book, I guess. And I think in the film, I mean, it's definitely a phrase that came to my head reading the story and watching the film as well. But Kempton describes himself as Robin Hood in the film.

Do you think your granddad saw himself as this Robin Hood figure who was stealing from the rich? You've got this government who are willing to shell out what was a vast amount of money at the time to prevent a painting from going abroad, but they won't look after their own war veterans and pensioners. So did he feel like he was robbing from the rich to get something for the poor? I'm not sure he was that vain, to be honest. But in his memoirs, he does talk about his campaign. And to be honest, he was at the time does talk about his campaign and to be honest he was at the time I think he was thought of as a little bit of a laughingstock in the working class community

he was kind of with his campaign he got very little support from anybody and really the only person that kind of supported him was my dad but everyone else I think he complains in his memoirs how I think he got one letter from one pensioner during his whole campaign. So I think he was doing what he thought was right. It's good now, all these years later, that we can tell the story. And I think his message is still relevant today. And it's having an impact now, even if it didn't have such an impact when he was alive. Yeah. And at the time, it was a big news story. It invades pop culture. I mean, the first James Bond film, Dr. No, has the painting of the Duke in Dr. No's lair. So

they were imagining that some big international multi-millionaire criminal has come up with this scheme to steal the Duke and it's in your granddad's wardrobe in his bedroom in Newcastle. Yeah. I mean, the film kind of concertinas the timescale a little bit, but it takes four years before your granddad effectively hands back the painting. So he can't get the money that he wants for these reforms to the BBC license fees. And he ends up returning the painting, but then he gets arrested and we see this whole court case played out in the film, which I think is one of the best bits of the film. It's really entertaining to watch Jim Broadbent as your granddad in the dock. But I think we're confronted

by the idea that we often think of people getting off on legal technicalities as a bad thing. This is the criminals getting away with it. And the worse the criminal is and the better connected they are, the more they're able to game the system. But in your granddad's case, he kind of gets off on a technicality and we all really, really want him to. Yeah, absolutely. There was a loophole in the law at the time that Jeremy Hutchinson, his lawyer, managed to spot. So since then, actually, as a direct result of that case, they actually changed the law. I believe in 1968, they updated the Theft Act, which basically prevents people creeping into galleries and borrowing paintings. But at the time,

that loophole was kind of seized upon, which is the reason that he didn't get prosecuted with taking the painting. Yeah, so effectively, the act of theft required you to intend to permanently deprive someone of goods. And your granddad always maintained that he intended to return the painting as soon as he got what he wanted. So he borrowed it rather than having stolen it. So this loophole, and as you say, we get section 11 of the Theft Act in 1968, which makes it a specific crime to steal a work of art that's on public display. So again, your granddad has changed the law of this land

because of what they did. Yeah, I guess he did change the world in this way, in an unintended way, not the way he wanted at the time. And then in addition to that, I believe that they also upgraded the security you wanted at the time. And then in addition to that, I believe that they also upgraded the security on all of the galleries nationwide on the back of this as well. So that was another kind of effect that it had on the country. It was like a 1960s ethical hacker,

wasn't he? He was just showing up the security floors for them. Do you think your dad and your granddad considered what they did worth it? I mean, Kempton ends up with, albeit a very brief spell in prison, and as you mentioned, he'd been there before to do with his license fees, but they don't get the free license fee for pensioners. I mean, that doesn't arrive until the year 2000 and it's gone again only just recently. But do you think they would have judged what they did and what they went through worth it to have highlighted the campaign? That's a good question. So Kempton's memoirs, at the end of his memoirs, he states something along the lines of how it was such a magnificent adventure, even though he didn't get what he set out to do, it was still a magnificent adventure. So I think, yes, he definitely felt it was worth

it. However, my dad, on the other hand, he said it was the dumbest thing that he ever did. However, my dad, on the other hand, he said it was the dumbest thing that he ever did. And this was back when I was researching before the film. I think maybe now that the film has come out, he might have changed his tune slightly on that, but he wasn't proud of it. Do you think he might change his mind because he might get a more sympathetic hearing than he thinks he would have got? I think just because he will see what's come of it. And it's kind of a quintessential British story now. Everybody's going to now learn about it.

And like you said at the start of this interview, it was under the radar for so many people. So I guess when he said that, it was still under the radar. Now when he sees it and really the impact the story had and it really needed to be heard, and I think secretly he'll be pleased with his involvement. And do you think The Duke, the film, as it lands in cinemas now, you've been involved in writing and creating this wonderful, thoroughly enjoyable film, but do you think it has a message for us today in today's society? I mean, it talks about disconnected governments spending their

money in places that people maybe don't agree with, a slightly angry society. Do you think it has messages for us today? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's by coincidence, really, because the film actually wrapped up shooting three weeks before COVID happened. And I think one of the big messages is just how I think everyone now has kind of experienced isolation over the last two or so years. And it's important that we spend time with one another, important that we are kind to each other and that we take care of those in society who need looking after. And that's kind of the message of the film. And I think that absolutely

resonates today. I think that's something your dad and your granddad will hopefully be proud of. Yeah. And I think it is an absolutely wonderful film. I think everybody should go and see this film, thoroughly enjoy it. It really is a wonderful story with the added bonus that it's all based in reality, the true story of your dad and your granddad and the only painting ever to be stolen from the National Gallery in London. So thank you so much for joining us today, Chris. It's been absolutely wonderful to talk to you about The Duke and about your dad and your granddad and the wonderful story that you're bringing to cinemas now. Thank you very much for having me. Thanks. Thanks, folks. Congratulations. Well the end of the episode. Congratulations.

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