Dan Snow's History Hit - Britain's Forgotten Olympic Heroes

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

The Olympics are a sporting event like no other and in this episode, we celebrate two great British Olympians of the past Anita Neil and Hugh 'Jumbo' Edwards. These are two very different athletes from completely different backgrounds, but each highlights the Olympic spirit at its finest. Firstly, Dan speaks to a British Olympic pioneer Anita Neil who was the first black woman to represent Great Britain at the games. Anita was an extraordinary sprinter who represented Great Britain at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico and the 1972 games in Munich. Anita and Dan discuss he journey to the Olympics, her experiences there and the struggles she faced trying to compete at the highest level.Then Dan speaks to Gavin Jamieson about the extraordinary life of Hugh 'Jumbo' Edwards. A legend in the sport of rowing he competed in the Oxford Cambridge boat race, won three races at the Henley Regatta and then went on to the Los Angeles Olympics in 1932 where he won two Olympic gold medals in the space of an hour; a record that stills stands today. During the Second World War, he joined the RAF and was a decorated pilot in Bomber Command and later in life became an innovative rowing coach.Listen to our recent episode examing the history of the Olympics with Professor Martin Polley here. 

This is History's Heroes. People with purpose, brave ideas, and the courage to stand alone. Including a pioneering surgeon who rebuilt the shattered faces of soldiers in the First World War. You know, he would look at these men and he would say, don't worry, Sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us when I'm done with you. Join me, Alex von Tunzelman, for History's Heroes. Subscribe to History's Heroes wherever you get your podcasts. Hi everyone, welcome to Dan Snow's History. The Olympics are underway.

It isn't the Olympics that we'd hoped we'd have. But you know what? It's still quite amazing watching it. And it's been fun introducing my kids for the first time to the kind of magic that surrounds the Olympic Games. And for this podcast, we've talked to the historian, Professor Martin Polly, about the history of the Olympic Games. Now I thought we could look at some individual Olympians. I'm very glad, first of all, you'll be hearing from Britain's first ever black female Olympian.

Doris, known as Anita Neal, was born in 1950. She was an extraordinary sprinter and in 1968 she became the first black British woman to go to the Olympic Games. She trained in her spare time, she worked as a machinist in a clothing factory, she had to support herself, but she was clearly an extraordinary natural talent and if she'd been given the kind of support that athletes get these days, well, I think she could be a household name. After that, you'll be hearing from Gavin Jamieson, who's written up the story of Jumbo Edwards,

or rather Hugh Edwards, known as Jumbo, was a legend in the world of rowing. He won the boat race, the Oxford Cambridge boat race. He won three races in Henley in one year, and he went to the Los Angeles Olympic Games in 1932 and won two rowing gold medals in the space of an hour, which I think might be an unrivaled achievement even to this day. His story didn't end there. He joined the RAF during the Second World War, joined Bomber Command, as you'll hear, had several remarkable adventures that left an indelible mark

on him. These are two very different athletes with completely different backgrounds and completely different sports. But I thought they illuminated something of the diversity of people that have been to the Olympic Games over the years. And they're two athletes we should keep in our minds as we watch a new generation of heroes emerge. If you wish to watch hundreds and hundreds of hours of history documentaries that we've made or licensed in from other people, you can do so by subscribing to History Hit. It's our new digital history channel. We've got all the episodes of podcasts on there, but we've also got hundreds of hours of history documentaries. Just go to historyhit.tv for a very small subscription. You join the revolution. You join History Hit. It'd be great to have you on the team. So head over to historyhit.tv. But in the meantime, it's time to celebrate

two very special Olympians. Enjoy. Anita, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. Tell me about your childhood. Where were you born and go to school? for inviting me. Tell me about your childhood. Where were you born and go to school? I was born in Wellingborough, born and bred. And I used to go to a local school, the Avenue School. I've lived here all my life. And when did you start running? The first time I heard race or on your marks, get set, go was from my father. We stood at the top of the cul-de-sac, which we called the banjo, and he said, let's race home.

And on your marks, get set. And I ran as fast as I could. And I won. He probably let me win. And he said to my mum, Anita's going to be a runner. And then from there, at the age of four, I started the Avenue School. And I noticed that the children in the playground couldn't catch me, which was great because other people were all playing tiki and circle games. And then from there, I went to Freeman Zendale Junior School and had my first competition.

And that was school sports. And it was a 70-yard race, and I won every year throughout my school years from the age of eight to 15 years. And was it unusual in your school? Because you have mixed heritage. Your dad was an African-American, and your mum was local. Was that an unusual thing in that time? Yes, I think my sister and I were the only two mixed-race children in the school at that time.

But others had probably gone before who were a bit older than us. But all the way through my schooling, I was the only mixed-race child in my class. And was that easy? When I was a lot younger, I was sort of picked out for one or two things. To start, I didn't like school meals. And the dinner lady used to stand behind me sometimes to encourage me to eat.

But in the end, she picked up a fork with beetroot on it and put it in my mouth, which I spat out. And I was made to stand on the chair the rest of the dinner time and this happened quite often and also because I didn't like milk because it used to make me sick and I didn't realize then that I was lactose intolerant and they used to try and make me drink milk all the time especially that warm milk near the ray data was terrible and I was ill from the age of seven to twelve I used to have to go to the hospital because they said I had bilious attack but it was probably because of the milk but also a doctor said to my mum that I had an inferiority complex because I was black.

And what do you remember feeling about the colour of your skin in a school which was otherwise all white? Was it difficult for you? It was not so much with the children, but the teachers. Because of the incident at school, and I was forced back, I told my mum, she came at the school, had a word with the headmistress. And then the headmistress called me out in front of the class. And I had to put my hand out.

And I got the three strikes of the ruler on my hand. And she said, don't tell lies. But the children were pretty good. It was probably other children in the street. Not the neighborhood kids. They were good as well. It was probably other children in the street. Not the neighbourhood kids. They were good as well. But there was other children that used to call us names.

And did your dad go back to America following his stationing in the UK? Yes, he did. He was backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. I didn't really meet him. I was introduced to him when I was three years of age. And then he was gone by the time I was six. My mum, she was left with four children on her own. And then eventually she met someone else and had another child.

And when did you start competing, really running at a high level? I watched the 1964 Olympic Games when I was at school. And I saw Mary saw Mary Rand and that inspired me to want to go to the Olympic Games. I had a coach by the time I was 13 but when I was 15 I joined London Olympiad Athletics Club and my coach used to ferry me and my mum around to all the meetings but at this club was Mary Rand, Lillian Board, Janet Simpson and Mary watched me long jump and thought I was very very good and I was running 100 meters then and she thought I was very fast but by the time I was 16 Mary was injured and she was supposed to have gone to Lille in France for competition but I went instead for the experience that was really exciting as you can well imagine my first international at the age of 16 I didn't win but I thoroughly enjoyed the experience from then on

there was a lot of internationals a lot of traveling a lot of hard work a lot of internationals, a lot of travelling, a lot of hard work, a lot of perseverance as you can well imagine and then came the Olympic Games in Mexico. Did people talk about you at the time as a pioneer, this first black female athlete? No they didn't. I don't know if they really recognised it or whether they just didn't want to know about it. But my sister, almost two decades ago, tried to look it up. And she even wrote to the Guinness Book of Records. And she didn't get a reply. So we just shelved it.

What do you remember about putting on that British team uniform for the first time? I felt so proud. It was exciting. I felt happy. I felt you're still a team member. Crazy. And it was brilliant. And you felt a higher level still,

but you had this uniform on with the Union Jack badge on. It was brilliant. Amazing. You raced in so many European championships, Commonwealth Games, Olympics. What are some of your highlights? I think probably it wasn't at the Olympics, it was at Portsmouth, a few weeks before the Olympic Games in 1968. The relay team, 4x110 yards, we did a world record.

And that was brilliant because we had to go to Buckingham Palace and we received a certificate and a plaque. I mean, to break the world record is something else, you know. I think going to Athens in 1969, the European Games, I came third in the 100 metres and third in the 4x100 metres. in the 100 metres and third in the four by 100 metres. And when you're standing on that podium, watching the Union Jack flutter in the breeze,

that makes you feel so proud. I had a tear run down my face. And we should remember, right, there was no big sponsorship money for you and no lottery money. You were having to support yourself, weren't you? Yes. I was working from the age of 15, five years in a factory,

full-time job and trying to train and not very much money at all. No training facilities, no sponsor, no agent, no proper facilities, grass track, it was bumpy, on a slope. If it wasn't for my coach, Roger Beadsworth, I wouldn't have got anywhere.

And I appreciate all what he did. So you were working a long shift in a clothing factory and then training what of an evening? They'd let me off twice a week, two hours early, so that I could train. Otherwise, I was working 36 hours a week. And by the time I got to work and came home, sometimes it was 10 hours a day. So it's very, very difficult.

I had other school children to train with, but they weren't fast enough. And sometimes it was just my coach and I out there in all weathers or indoor. or indoor and I used to have to travel as I got older on the train on my own as a 15 year old up to London to be met by people that I didn't know it was all very difficult. You went to the Olympics twice what are your memories of those experiences? Absolutely exciting amazing and surreal. It was wonderful. It was my dream because I'd watched Tokyo Olympics 1964 and Mary Rand winning the gold medal in the long jump. And she inspired me so much.

The day I went out to the Olympic Games to run, I remember on the warm-up track, I was feeling quite nervous. And then we all went into the waiting room and we were prowling along looking at each other like caged lions and you're thinking am I going to beat this girl yeah trying to talk yourself into it and then we go out to the tunnel and you can hear the roar of the crowd and then you feel like a gladiator ready for whatever comes and once you're out there and on the starting blocks silence until that gun goes off and then you do your best I made the quarterfinals in both olympics and the 100 metres. I had a world record, rather, in one of my heats and made the finals in the 4x100 metre relay.

What an amazing story. Did you get the attention, do you think, that you were hoping for back in the UK? Did you get recognised? A lot of people did. They were very supportive. When I won medals, they used to meet me off the train, a big crowd of people.

And that was lovely because I thought they appreciate and they've been watching what I did. And yeah, very supportive. But when you compare it to athletes now, did women's sports suffer back in the 60s and 70s in comparison to the men's games? Yeah, certainly. I mean, they're sponsored. They don't have to work 30 or 40 hours a week most people have got facilities most people have got agents and they get paid and i didn't receive a penny not one penny for the whole career wow. When did you decide it was time to knock it on the head? Well, I think it was about 1973. My coach had other obligations, so he couldn't take

me to meetings and I didn't have a car or a drive. I trained on my own for another year. I went to one or two meetings, but it was too difficult time to get there. I didn't have anybody to train with. I didn't have any advice about nutrition, specialist doctors, physio, no proper training track. I was on my own. How old were you at this stage? 22, 23. Because actually sprinters you've got a lot more left in you at 22, 23 haven't you? Yeah Yeah, I certainly felt I did. But I needed support and I didn't get it. Are you sad?

I mean, do you look back with some bitterness now or do you look back with happy memories? I look back with happy memories. A bit of both, actually. Because I always say to people, I should have gone to the four M's. That's Mexico, Munich, Montreal and Moscow. Yeah, you reckon you could have gone until 1980?

Yes, I do. I mean, look at Shirley-Ann Fraser. She's well into her 30s and others. And instead, you just went back to full-time work. By your mid-20s, you were in full-time work. Yes, back to normal. That's from being a structured way of life, to having to go back to a 40-hour week in an office then, because it was such a different way of life to having to go back to a 40-hour week in an office then because it was such a

different way of life. I was traveling abroad a few times a year staying in five-star hotels mixing with stars and then coming down to earth and no mental support because it hit me hard really. So that was a very difficult time, was it? It was. My sister will say this. I shut myself away for about seven years because I felt disappointed. I was hurt and I just felt I could still do things, but nobody was there supporting me.

Luckily enough, my mum, she brought me a ticket for a dinner and dance for her work and she said you've got to go because I hadn't been out or socialized apart from working or going to college to better my education and so I went to this dinner and dance with my mum and that's when I started I should really try and get out a bit more. And now after all these years, do you feel like a pioneer? Do you feel like you were a role model for women and women of colour who followed you? Well, I hope so.

I feel very proud that it's come to light. It's taken a long time, but better late than never. Well, I hope you enjoy all the attention that you should have had in your early 20s now. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast. Do you watch the Olympics? Are you still a keen

fan of athletics? Oh yes, definitely. I go to sport meetings. I'm giving out some cups and medals in about six weeks' time at the Advanced Championship. Who are you looking out for on Team GB at the Olympics? Of course, Dina Asher-Smith

Asher Phillips, all the sprint girls and boys, not everybody really Before they fly to Japan I hope they come to you for a bit of advice That would be wonderful Thank you so much for coming on the podcast Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you, Dan.

If you listen to Dan Snow's history, we're talking about two Olympic heroes. More after this. This is History's Heroes. People with purpose, brave ideas and the courage to stand alone, including a pioneering surgeon who rebuilt the shattered faces of soldiers in the First World War. You know, he would look at these men and he would say, don't worry, Sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us when I'm done with you. Join me, Alex von Tunzelman, for History's Heroes.

Subscribe to History's Heroes wherever you get your podcasts. Gavin, thank you very much for coming on the pod. It's an absolute pleasure, Dan, and thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast and to be able to talk to you about a life less ordinary. It is, and if people forgive the narcissism for a second, it's a life I've often been fascinated by because we have some little similarities. We come from the same parts of the world and me and Jumbo both rode for Oxford University. But at that point, our lives went very, very differently indeed. And he went on to become a total card carrying hero.

Tell me, who was Hugh Edwards? Where was he from? So Hugh Robert Arthur Edwards was born in a small town in Oxfordshire called Westcott Barton near Banbury. His father, Robert Edwards, was a Welsh vicar for the Church of England. And his mother, Annie Tannett Price, was of mixed sort of Welsh-Dutch heritage. On the Dutch side, her mother's family during the 19th century had developed coffee plantations in Java for the Dutch. And so some of the money had come through the family that way. So growing up in Knoxfordshire at the Vicarage was a quite idyllic childhood. He had an older brother, Cecil, who he sort of worshipped, really,

and he followed in his footsteps when it came to rowing and also flying. And then he got enrolled into Dragon's School in Oxford. And at Dragon's School, they had, as you did in the early 20th century, a real emphasis on physical education. So they would often go swimming in the river there. And with the start and the onset of the First World War, they were digging trenches in the grounds of the school. And he loved it. And his passion for the river, I think, really began there at Dragon School. His classmate was John Betjeman as well, and he remained a lifelong friend.

So it was very much studying to eventually then enrol at Westminster School in 1919. And that's really where his love, his passion for rowing evolved. And then he ends up at Oxford University. He ends up with his brother. What an amazing experience. It would have been. He went up to Christchurch in 1925 and his brother had already been there a year and his brother Cecil had rowed in the boat race of 1925.

That was the year that the Oxford boat sank. And it was also the years in the 1920s, especially of this dominance of Cambridge over Oxford. But in 1925 with Jumbo they could already see that there was not just this passion for rowing but this wonderful technique. He was about 13 stones in those days that was quite heavy for a rower but he had already rowed at Henley for his school Westminster in the ladies plate which is the competition for the schools and he'd also was rowing not just in an eight but in the pairs and in the four and almost to his

surprise as well he got selected for the Oxford boat for 1926 boat race along with his brother Cecil and just tell me for the people that don't know, and the Oxford-Cambridge boat race still gets on TV today, but obviously it's swamped by far more popular and exciting sport from all around the world. Back in the 20s, it was kind of a big deal, the Oxford-Cambridge boat race. You're completely right, Dan. It was a massive deal. On the sporting calendar, there was the three big events, being the FA Cup final, the Grand National, and the boat race. And back then, the 20s, it was front page news, literally. All the newspapers covered it. The rows themselves became celebrities. During the training, Jumbo would often complain, as did the rest of his crew, about the amount of people asking for their autographs, for the press intrusion to see how they were training.

And this happened in the months leading up to the boat race. So it was a massive deal. And there was up to 200,000, a quarter of a million people lining the banks of the Thames. And across all social stasis, the factories would close early on a Saturday so everyone could be there and support either Oxford or Cambridge.

And how did his Oxford growing career go? It went pretty badly. So in the 1926 boat race, he trained and they all trained so hard. He felt that the crew itself would not be able to beat Cambridge because of the dominance. And Cambridge had so many excellent coaches, their technical ability was probably greater. So the big day comes. They have trained. They have prepared. And they take to the water.

And for the first mile, and with the crowds cheering, and there's this wonderful memory that he wrote down of sitting in the boat at the start and this silence as he sat there. And then on the off, this great cacophony of noise from the banks. And the Oxford boat went into the lead and it pulled ahead by about half a length of the Cambridge boat. And by the mile mark, so the Chiswick, the boats were literally side by side. The commentators at the time were saying this was the closest boat race that they'd had for years. And then from the bank, people could see something went wrong with the Oxford boat, that one of the oars was dragging in the water, that the rower sitting at number five wasn't there, literally wasn't there in the

boat. And that was Jumbo. He had collapsed. And this was unprecedented. You know, rowers, oarsmen, they did not collapse in the boat race, but he did. And Cambridge spurted ahead. He managed to be put upright again, and he grabbed his oar, began to row again. But by then, the boat race had been lost. Cambridge won by about five lengths. So he was devastated, obviously. And the press, especially the Times, really laid into him. They said that he wasn't fit enough. He was too fat, even. He was too young. And the loss of the Oxford boat was put squarely on his shoulders. And Dan, I know you rode in two boat races and you experienced both victory and defeat.

And I'm sure you, more than anyone, knows what defeat must have felt like. And I was certainly the kid probably who was responsible for those defeats. So I can definitely sympathise with Jumbo there. Why did he collapse? So he was taken to the doctor and in the early days of x-rays, the doctor x-rayed him and said, you have a dilated heart. This is the reason why you collapsed and you should never again do any strenuous exercise. But if you still have a

passion for sport, he suggested he take up crown bowls. Obviously, the devastation of the press, the devastation of what the doctor said. And also that night, the Oxford team were sent to a cinema in the West End where they recreated the boat race on this stage with a model. And they would play these old Pathé news clips of the race itself. And the crew had to sit there and watch as they saw Jumbo collapse. And Cambridge rose serenely to victory in front of 800 people. So Jumbo, obviously badly affected by this, left Oxford. He failed his exams, but it is, no pun intended, his heart wasn't in his studies. So he left. However, that wasn't the end of his sporting career, was it? No, that passion for rowing.

I think for some people that would have just destroyed them. They would have gone, okay, let's go into a career of teaching and let's never get back into a boat. But Jumbo did have that passion and that got rekindled. He got back into a boat, into a single scull, and just had a legendary row down the Thames one day, fearful that he was going to physically die by doing this. But no, he found that he just couldn't not be in a boat and not row. And he had this burning desire to prove everybody wrong. And he joined up with London Rowing Club at the time there was two great

rivals on the river Thames Rowing Club in London but he joined London under the coach of Steve Fairbairn an Australian who was a wonderful mentor to John Bow and to all the other rowers who adored him and he got back into the boat into an eight and into Coxless Pairs. And did pretty well, especially in the Coxless Pair. He did. So with Lewis Clive, also someone from Christchurch that he knew, he was selected for the Los Angeles Olympics of 1932. But prior to that, in 1931, at the Henley Regatta,

he won all three grand finals, the Coxless Pairs, the four, and also the eight for London Rowing Club. And this had only once been done before. It's never been done since. I don't think any rower nowadays would be foolhardy enough to enter all three of the grand finals. So one day he won three trophies presented by the Duchess of York, soon to be the Queen Mother. And she sort of presented him with the silver goblet and said, oh, not you again. But so through those successes and really establishing self as probably Britain's foremost oarsman in 1931 with those three victories at Henley, selected for the Great Britain Olympic team for 1932 in Los Angeles. And how did he do? The guy with the dicky heart.

Exactly. He was cited for the Cox's Pair. So they traveled out the 12-day journey out to Los Angeles and they won. They won gold. Lewis Clive and Jumbo came through and won the gold medal. But that wasn't the end of his exploits of that Olympics. Due to illness in the Coxless Four. He was drafted in to replace Oroa. So as soon as he finished at the Coxless Pairs and crossing that winning line, he was whisked back up to the start line to get into the Four and rode to victory in the Coxless Four. So he won two gold medals within an hour. Now, doing all my research on this, that remains an Olympic record of winning two gold medals in such a short time and in the same day. And that was his means of saying, look, you know, yes, I collapsed in 1926, but I can row still.

Do you think he rowed with the thought that any stage his heart might give in? I think definitely. I mean, certainly for those first year or so, and especially doing those two finals within such a short space of time. But he just kept going. And I think later on, he found out that the doctor had misdiagnosed him, that he didn't have a dilated heart. It was Oxford's way of telling him, look, we don't really want you anymore.

Just leave. Don't row. So the doctor's, that diagnosis was really to tell him, look, just don't go back into a boat. Now, this is where the story gets interesting, because like all that generation, they had these fascinating civilian lives, and then war breaks out. That's right. So war breaks out. And Jumbo's passion for rowing was after 1932

and what he had achieved. I think his passion waned slightly, but there was a new passion in his life, and that was flying. He absolutely loved it. And he was desperate to be commissioned into the RAF, which he was. And he was initially assigned to 5th Squadron, the training corps, and he was

there to train the pilots that were coming through and the navigators for that. And he was at RAF Jerby on the Isle of Man training these young pilots when it came to 1942 and the bomber Harris and the night of the thousand bombers. And there was that desire to get a thousand bombers in the air. But that was proving difficult. Coastal Command were quite understandably reticent to lend their aircraft. So the call went out to all the trainers and the various training squads. And so Jumbo had to borrow a Hamden bomber and with a crew of four,

pilot this plane over to Essen and to drop his incendiary bombs at the Krupp's factory there. You make it sound quite casual, but I mean, was this his first raid? I mean, what was his war experience like up to that point? This was actually his fourth mission, but the previous raids had been more

for reconnaissance purposes. This was the first fourth mission, but the previous raids had been more for reconnaissance purposes. This was the first time that he was taking a plane across to Germany to actually bomb a target. And Dan, you've seen a Hamden, they're reconstructing a Hamden here in Britain, aren't they? And Jumbo would say it was a wonderful plane to fly, but it was not the most comfortable plane. It was so narrow. Once the crew of four were in position, that was it. As pilots, the bravery to go up over the coastline into Germany in the skies at two o'clock

in the morning and drop your bomb load was horrific. But worse was to come for Jumbo. As he was piloting his Hamden, one of the engines failed, approaching Essen. Now, the Hamden is such a plane that you could pilot it on one engine, but that was a difficult job to drop your payload on one engine and then get the hell out of there. The engine restarted, and they managed to drop the incendiary bombs. And they were flying back to England when the engine failed again.

So they had to drop down to 600 feet and jettison out as much ammunition, as much equipment as they could to keep the plane flying. And they just made it over to Norfolk and the second engine went, but they managed to bring the airplane down safely at an airfield. This is history's heroes. People with purpose, brave ideas, and the courage to stand alone, including a pioneering surgeon who rebuilt the shattered faces of soldiers in the First World War. You know, he would look at these men and he would say, don't worry, Sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us when I'm done with you. Join me, Alex von Tunzelman, for History's Heroes.

Subscribe to History's Heroes wherever you get your podcasts. That wasn't the end of his remarkable wartime experience. Tell me about some other episodes of that record. was now with Coastal Command, they had taken an order of the B-24 Consolidated Liberator from America, which was a wonderful plane because it allowed Coastal Command to go long distances and to hunt U-boats and to protect convoys. So in November 1943, this was probably his maybe 10th or 11th mission, a crew of eight he went out and the liberator to protect a convoy that was coming up from gibraltar but which had been spotted by the germans and that was being shadowed by a wolf pack so it was the aim of the liberator and that

mission to protect that convoy and they would hunt hunt the U-boats at nighttime with the radar that had been obviously newly developed. And they would have this, it was called the lay light on the Liberator, this great floodlight that would switch on and illuminate the ocean once they had a signal that there was a U-boat surface. And then they would drop the depth charges. However, they found a U-boat, they went in, dropped the depth charges, the U-boat returned fire. That seemed fine. They managed to get back to the convoy and then they flew back to the coastline. However, about 12 miles out of the Cornish coast, just near the Scilly Isles, the engines failed on the Liberator and it ditched very dramatically, very quickly into the Atlantic Ocean.

The plane broke in two and the Liberator was nicknamed as the Flying Coffin. It was quite an ungainly shape, the Liberator, but also it was nicknamed that because it was so difficult to get out of the plane if such an incident would occur. However, he managed to get out of the front cockpit, which had been smashed, and three others of the crew had managed to also clamber out, all very badly injured. However, the life rafts hadn't deployed, so he had to manually inflate a life raft to save himself and his crew. It took five minutes to inflate this life raft, but he knew that without inflating this life raft, that was it. There was obviously no hope for them. He managed to do that. But by the time he looked

around, the other crew members had all disappeared. Their injuries were obviously so extensive and the sea had taken them. So he was left by himself in this inflatable life raft. The Liberator had sunk beneath the waves. He stayed around until sunset. And this was in November. So the air temperature, as well as the sea temperature, would have been horrific. There was no sign of anyone. So he took a bearing east and began to row. He was the right man for it, I guess. Yeah, I think if you have an Olympic rower, then maybe there is a chance. And he rowed overnight. He actually was suffering from a punctured lung, five broken ribs.

And at 7.45 in the morning, there was a trawler, HMS Lincolnshire, that spotted this little yellow speck in the distance. And that was a life raft. And they hauled him up and saved his life. How many people were you able to meet and learn about the man himself? And how did he respond to that trauma? Did he blame himself, like so many, that his crew hadn't managed to escape? Again, it was something that he would never talk about to his family. Just in context, my wife, Melissa, she's the granddaughter of Jumbo, and that's how I got really interested, obviously, in the story

and finding out and going through the family archives, researching for a book I'm writing on Jumbo. And he never talked to his sons about the incident. He wouldn't talk to anyone. And it was only through looking through his logbooks, finding letters that he wrote to the families of his crew members that had perished, that you could piece together what actually had happened. I think there was a lot of guilt that he was the only survivor. When you look at the statistics for 53 Squadron, they lost 13 Liberators.

So 107 crew members had ditched at the sea. And with the exception of Jumbo, he was the only survivor in that Second World War of ditched Liberators for the Squadron. So there was the guilt of surviving, I think. Did he fly again? He did. He obviously was recuperating for six months, but was then promoted to group captain of 53 Squadron. And they were posted up to Iceland for the rest of the war, where they used Reykjavik as their base to go out and protect convoys.

And his love of flying, again, he was going flying out, but not so much on night missions, but more in reconnaissance. And at the end of the war, he was awarded flying out but not so much on night missions but more in reconnaissance and at the end of the war he was awarded the afc the air force cross and the distinguished flying cross for not just the protection of the convoys and through his heroics but also for helping to save another crew that he spotted in the atlantic oceanrift. It might be painful for you to address this, given your family connection. I mean, was he a difficult man? Was he a difficult father?

I mean, how was he when he returned from that extraordinary life that he'd already lived? So he's only 40 years old at the end of the war, in the prime of life, I should say. He's crammed a lot into that first 40 years of his life. How was he? Was he a difficult man? Were you able to talk about that? My father-in-law, David Edwards, who sadly passed away a couple of years ago,

he was an excellent rower as well. He rode for Oxford in the boat race of 1959 that his father, Jumbo, coached. And David would say to me that as a father, he was very difficult. At a party, that as a father, he was very difficult. At a party, he was wonderful, but as a father, not so. And the research for the book, talking to some of the rowers that Jumbo coached in the late 50s, I talked to Dick Fishlock, Donald Shaw, who were both Olympian rowers in 1960. They adored him, but equally there have been those who have been coached by him who said that he was a very difficult man.

He took to drink quite heavily in the later years of his life. And again, that's not uncommon for those who have gone through what he did in the war. But as a coach, he was loved, adored, but also feared, I think, in equal measure. The legends that got down to me were certainly an unforgettable experience and he enjoyed success as an Oxford coach as well. Is that what he did through the rest of his life? Did he devote himself to that or did he have other projects? No he did. His two great passions were rowing and flying so going back to the river and he was approached by Oxford to coach the Oxford crew in the 50s.

And he really threw himself into that and became such an innovative coach in terms of looking at the science of coaching, the science of rowing, the shape of the blades of the oars, the shape of the boat. And really going into the timing and looking at diet. I think he was way ahead of his time when you look at coaches in the 50s. And that brought success to Oxford. Under his coaching, I think they won about five boat races at a time where Cambridge, again, had a dominance. And he then went on to be one of the coaches at the olympics in rome in 1960 but he still would fly and he'd still have that passion but rowing was really where he defined himself well thank you very much indeed for talking to us about that life during this olympic period olympic hero my british olympic hero gavin and when will the book be out i'm currently to us about that life during this Olympic period, Olympic hero, British Olympic hero,

Gavin, and when will the book be out? I'm currently writing it now. So I'm hoping for next year, looking to crowdfund the book as my main job is as a publisher. I've been in publishing for 25 years, but about four years ago, I set up my own publishing imprint, Lapwing and consultancy. So if people would like to visit the website, there'll be more details about the book and how they can hopefully support this venture. So what's the website? The website is lapwingpublishing.com.

Lapwingpublishing.com. If you want to see the jumbo book written, folks, head over there. Thank you, Gavin, for coming on. Thank you so much, Dan. It's been a pleasure. I feel we have the history on our shoulders. All this tradition of ours, our school history, our songs, this part of the history of our country, all were gone and finished. Thank you for making it the end of this episode of Dan Snow's History. I really appreciate listening to this podcast. I love doing these podcasts. It's a highlight of my career. It's the best thing I've ever done.

And your support, your listening is obviously crucial for that project if you did feel like doing me a favor if you go to wherever you get your podcasts and give it a review give a rating obviously a good one ideally then that would be fantastic and feel free to share it we obviously depend on listeners depend on more and more people finding out about it depend on good reviews to keep the listeners coming in. Really appreciate it. Thank you. This is History's Heroes. People with purpose, brave ideas, and the courage to stand alone, including a pioneering surgeon who rebuilt the shattered faces of soldiers in the First World War. You know, he would look at these men and he would say, don't worry, Sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us when I'm done

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