Dan Snow's History Hit - Britain's Overlooked Hero: From the Trenches to the Blitz

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

Serving on the front lines of the First World War, the homefront of the Second World War and as a community leader throughout his life, George Arthur Roberts was a truly inspirational figure. Yet, his amazing story is little known. After the outbreak of the First World War broke out he travelled from Trinidad to the UK and eventually joined the Middlesex Regiment. He saw considerable action at the Battle of Loos, the Dardanelles campaign and the Somme where his wounds forced him out of the war. A man of considerable bravery and a keen cricketer George was known for picking up and throwing enemy grenades back into their trenches. Too old to fight in the Second World War he became a firefighter serving in Southwark, London. In 1944 he was awarded the British Empire Medal for his work in the fire service and the community. That community work was equally impressive as whilst in the fire service he founded the Discussion and Education groups of the fire service. He was also one of the founder members of the League of Coloured Peoples, an influential civil rights organisation that looked after Britain's black community.To say that he is an inspirational figure is an understatement and joining dan to talk about his extraordinary life Dan is joined by his great-granddaughter, Samantha Harding. She and Dan discuss the events of George's life, Samantha's own story of discovery as she uncovered his life and the vital legacy that figures such as George can have today.

Some things just take too long. A meeting that could have been an email, someone explaining crypto, or switching mobile providers. Except with Fizz. Switching to Fizz is quick and easy. Mobile plans start at $17 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. Hello and welcome to Dan Snow's History. Today we've got the story of a forgotten British hero. George Arthur Roberts was born in Trinidad. He moved to the UK and signed up to fight in the First World War. A keen cricketer, he became famous in the trenches for his ability to pick up grenades, known as bombs at the time,

and hurl them back towards enemy lines, keeping his mates safe and inflicting casualties on the Germans. He was featured in newspaper articles and became something of a celebrity soldier. He fought in the Middlesex Regiment, the Battle of Loos, in the Dardanelles, Glippi Campaign, and at the Somme. He was wounded twice and then settled in London following the war. He became a founder member of the League of Coloured Peoples, an influential civil rights organisation. And during the Second World War, he wanted wanted to serve again but he wasn't able to, he was too old, so he became a fireman and he was celebrated for saving countless lives, pulling people out of the rubble of Southwark during the Blitz from 1940 onwards. He was decorated for his bravery, he was given the British Empire Medal for general duties at New

Cross Fire Station. It's very exciting to me to be part of resurrecting this hero from our forgotten past. And here to do it with me is his great-granddaughter, Dr. Sam Harding. She's a paediatric ophthalmologist, and she is very proud of her great-grandpa and has done a huge amount of work reconstructing his story. If you want to listen to other episodes of this podcast without the ads, I can see why you'd want to do that. If you want to listen to other episodes of this podcast without the ads, I can see why you'd want to do that. If you want to listen to them without the ads, you want to listen to my mammoth Trafalgar monologue yesterday that I put out on the anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar, please do that. You can head over to historyhit.tv. Historyhit.tv. It's like Netflix for history. We've got 100 documentaries on there. We've got

the new Trafalgar documentary on there that everyone's watching. We have got the story of the Haitian Revolution on there, which is one of my favourites. We've got the new Trafalgar documentary on there that everyone's watching. We have got the story of the Haitian revolution on there, which is one of my favorites. We've got loads of documentaries on there. We've got all the podcasts about the ads. You just go there. Actually, it's Trafalgar Week. So if you use the code Trafalgar, Trafalgar, all one word, you get the first three months 50% off. Crazy offer, actually. Gets you going right the way past Christmas, paying only 50% of history.tv. That's like half a pint of beer. Crazy. Every month. You won't even notice it. Historyhit.tv. Go and check it out. But in the meantime, let's talk about the hero of the trenches and the blitz.

Enjoy. Samantha, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. You're welcome. It's my pleasure. Such a wonderful treat to be here. Well, it's a treat to hear about your ancestor. Tell me about your extraordinary... Is it your great-grandpa? He is my great-grandfather. That's right. So George Arthur Roberts, born on the 1st of August, 1891 at Belmont in Port of Spain. We unfortunately don't know a great deal about his early life, but we know sometime around maybe 1911, 1912, he came to the UK, joined the Middlesex Regiment, saw action.

Yeah, carry on. Can I just quickly ask you this? Did he come as a, just because he wanted to, economic migrant, you might say, or did he come to join the army in particular? That's a really good question. And unfortunately, I haven't yet completely nailed the sort of shipping records. My great aunt, who was his second daughter, from her stories, it sounds like he might have gone to New York first and then made his way across. But ostensibly, he was keen on seeing action. And he was a soldier in Trinidad. Okay. Yeah. And I think the plan was to pretty much come to Europe to fight. But unfortunately, I don't have the shipping story nailed down yet. When you do, let me know. It's exciting. Oh, I know. Yes, I'd love to get that one sorted. So he ends up in the Middlesex Regiment. Yes. The big London Regiment, lots of different battalions, all sorts of Londoners.

That's right. And what's his wartime service like? So he was first Middlesex. He ended up as a staff sergeant. My great-grandfather was about six foot two inches tall. That was tall for those times, wasn't it? Wow. So he was quite tall.

And he became quite famous because he used to, when he was on the front line, pick up bombs and throw them back over enemy lines. And yeah, exactly. And so he got this famous name. I think he was christened through not the London Gazette, but one of the gazettes as the Coconut Bomber. He got that nickname and won also the military service medal when he finished his time. He was injured on Somme and then furloughed back to Trinidad and Tobago in 1916. So after he was wounded, that was pretty much the end of his time

involved in World War I. Well, he'd served in several battles, I think, loose as well. Yes, that's right. So he must have seen a heck of an amount. Can we drill into that nickname, the Coconut? Because interestingly, in South Africa today, that's almost a term of insult around people that have black skin but are kind of too white in terms of their embrace of white culture.

Do you think there was something going on there as well? Was that like a... Almost certainly. I mean, when you think there was something going on there as well? Was that like a... Almost certainly. I mean, when you think about it, I mean, I'm a doctor and one of the things I had to do in my time, I'm an eye specialist, and so when the 7-7 bomb was dropped, one of my jobs was to go and see some of the survivors and take glass out of their eyes.

Now, if you think about it, if you're a soldier and you pick up a bomb in your hand, and God forbid the thing goes off in your hand, the chances of serious, extremely serious, life-threatening injury is extremely high. And yet repeatedly, this tall man, who I understand was a brilliant cricketer as well, and probably played cricket on the streets of Belmont in Port of Spain, which is why he got so good at throwing things, was just able to pick these bombs up and just chuck them back over enemy lines. And so when you think about it, that's just an incredibly brave thing to have done. He must have saved thousands of lives doing that at ridiculous risk to himself. And so what do you do? Well, there's one half of people

who will say, what a nutcase, and give him the slightly derisory name of the coconut bomber. And there's another half of people who will say, cripes, if you really think about that, we ought to give the man the George Cross or something like that. And for a long time in my family, there was a rumour that he'd won the George Cross for these extraordinary acts of bravery. I haven't managed to track down a George Cross win of any type. But you would think really, here was what was in those days called a Negro man doing these incredibly brave acts. What do you do with him? Maybe one way is to slightly belittle him and calling him the coconut bomber may have been partly affectionate, but partly to keep those acts down a little bit so that they would never be recognised. Because for a long time, I didn't actually even know my great grandfather existed in in the form I had heard in this mythological way. And

his life is a really good illustration of how you can erase someone's history with great ease. You listened to Dan Snow's History Hit. We're talking about George Arthur Roberts. More coming up. We're talking about George Arthur Roberts. More coming up. What caused the anarchy? How did medieval migrants shape the language I'm speaking right now? Who won the Hundred Years' War? Could England's lost patron saint be buried under a tennis court in Suffolk?

How did England's last medieval king end up under a car park? And were the Dark Ages really all that dark? I'm Dr Kat Jarman. And I'm Matt Lewis. On Gone Medieval, we'll uncover the most exciting and unexpected stories about the Middle Ages, hearing from the best and brightest minds. We will disentangle fact from fiction, bring you the latest discoveries, and reveal how the so-called Dark Ages laid the foundations for much of the world we're living in today. Subscribe to Gone Medieval from History Hit wherever you get your podcasts. And to talk to me more about the kind of oral tradition in your family,

is it you said your aunt, your great aunt? That's right, yeah, Violet. Right, she knew him and he told her stories and so she knew of him because he would come to and fro to trinidad from what i managed to gather there was one long tranche around the time she was born when he came october 1960 to 1917 and then he went back again in the 20s, back again in the 40s. And so he was going to and fro to Trinidad. And his daughters knew him and knew of his exploits. People who knew him tell me he wasn't actually all that forthcoming about what he had been doing.

So if you ask him about London or ask him about the war or the League of Coloured Peoples, he'd change the subject and say, can we talk about something else? And so, as you say, there was an oral tradition around him. One of my uncles who's still alive says that there was a rumour that he was a lord, and that rumour got bigger and bigger. And at the same time, he knew Leary Constantine, who of course was a lord. And this sort of mushroom cloud of Chinese whisper grew around his life. So every time my aunt told me the story, it got more and more fantastic with the telling. And it got to the stage where I was listening to it and thinking to myself, how could that possibly be true? There I was. I was born and bred in London. I'd gone to school at a very nice school in North London. I had an excellent history teacher. I loved history.

And I'd never heard about this man and his amazing exploits. So for a long time, I dismissed it and simply pursued my family tree, just looking for who was in it, tracing back as far as I could go. It was only when I wandered into a bookshop in Liverpool in Bold Street and saw a book called Black Poppies that featured my great-grandfather by a chap called Stephen Bourne. And I made contact with Stephen and I said, oh, you've got a bit about my great granddad in there. Can you tell me about him? And Stephen said, well, actually, I've nominated him for a blue plaque through a paper in South London and watch this space. He might win. So, of course, he did win. And that was when my interest was really piqued.

This guy's for real. Yeah, exactly. I got the job of organising the ceremony and there's a funny story with my husband saying to me, oh Sam, only make 30 programmes because hardly anyone will turn up. And I ran out of all the programmes within seconds of arriving because so many people had converged on this blue plaque. And I remember thinking after that, oh, this is serious. So now I better do some research. I'm glad you have done. And his life didn't stop there.

He joined the League of Coloured Peoples. That's right. But also as a World War II fireman as well, he won some acclaim. That's right. So we've managed to find out that he was the first black member of the Auxiliary Fire Service in 1938. Of course, being the man he was, the bombs didn't stop dropping till about 1941 when the Blitz started. And so instead of sitting twiddling his thumbs, started these discussion groups, which were probably an overhang from his

work in the League of Coloured Peoples,, of course, they had had some very important political figures writing for their journal, The Keys, people like C.L.R. James, George Padmore, the sort of fathers of Caribbean independence and African independence. And so he took that political foment and formed these discussion groups involving people like Norman Heppel, who painted his portrait, Spender, the great poet. They would basically all sit in a circle just talking about the political matters of the day. And the discussion groups took off. At one stage had 15,000 members nationally, and he was awarded the British Empire Medal for it. So there's a lovely feature in the 1942 edition of the Picture Post where he's standing up and giving his views on what's happening in his AFS uniform. the Imperial War Museum, which we're all very proud of. So yeah, just couldn't stay still. This constant foment of ideas and energy was ongoing with him.

Yeah. And when he wasn't having discussion groups, he was a section leader and he was saving lives in Southwark and putting out fires and hauling people out of the wreckage. Amazing. Exactly. Yeah. We do have him on record. He talked to the BBC in 1947. Read out his wonderful quote, which is such a great distillation of everything he was about. Yeah, absolutely. And which is why I chose it for the back cover of the programme for the Red Plot when we opened it. If what I am doing can assist in some small way to bring about a better understanding and a true fellowship amongst the peoples of the earth, I shall be extremely happy. amongst the peoples of the earth, I shall be extremely happy. And that quote is the quintessence of the man, isn't it? All his energy and all those changes he made in the world probably emanated from that single philosophy of his life. Yeah, fascinating. You said you're a keen history fan,

and what does it mean to you when Black History Month, we're talking about black people in history, why does that matter? In this case, it's because he's a great grandpa. But why should it matter to young people of colour in the UK when it's learning about Francis Drake or whatever else or Palmerston? Why does it matter that they should look like them? This is something that I've thought about quite a bit.

And I know when I was at school, and yes, indeed, I did love history. And one of the things we had to do just before O-Levels was a special project on some subject we liked. And I remember going up to my wonderful history teacher, Mrs. Preston at Parliament Hill, and asking her, could I please do a project on Trinidad and Tobago? And her response was completely understandable. I don't know anything about Caribbean history. So I'm really sorry, Sam, I wouldn't be able to judge the quality of your work. Would you mind doing something European? And so I chose a project on the League of Nations, which was actually almost

as fascinating. But I thought back on that recently and thought, you know, what a shame that I hadn't just gone ahead and done that research and looked into that when I was a youngster. Because there was this man long, long before the Windrush, 1914, fighting in World War I, setting up the League of Coloured Peoples, setting up the British Legion, setting up his place in the Auxiliary Fire Service and the discussion groups and just going on and on and on. Life member of the British Legion, 1962.

And you hear all these extraordinary stories and you're thinking, if I'd known this figure was there, perhaps I would have seen myself in that position in a history book that said, here were people doing these things in London at this time, long before 1948. So I think it's really important. I mean, even when I wanted to become a doctor, that sense of seeing myself in a white coat, because I hadn't seen any other doctors in white coats. And the idea you superimpose yourself on the figure you see that helps your own ambitions to be realised is just so important. So yes, I think Black History Month is a big deal. And the only problem is, it's just a month, because of course, the history goes on for the 11 remaining months of the year. And our history is

just burgeoning all the time. I'm discovering new things about George Arthur Roberts all the time. And hopefully, Black History Month shouldn't become a sort of a distinctive thing. It should just always be happening for all 12 months of the year. For kids growing up today, black kids in Britain, kids of lots of different ethnicities, do you think it is a different experience than the experience that you had when you were there being told to study something in European history? I think there have been differences. The really sad part is I think there's been quite a lot of difference in the last 18 months or so, secondary to the death of poor Mr. George Floyd. And of course, that has rippled out like a pebble in a lake all over the world.

There are things happening that have been talked about for decades since I was a little girl that are suddenly actually being talked about seriously and acted upon. And I think that's the big difference. As it says in that lovely song by Simon and Garfunkel, after changes were more or less the same, and maybe things haven't moved on a great deal because we're still finding, for example, in medicine, lots of racism, in schooling, lots of racism, et cetera. But I would say definitely recently there has been a sea change and I really hope that continues, yeah. Let's finish up by saying that people can learn more about your illustrious forebear at the Imperial Museum. That is right.

So as I mentioned before, the World War II galleries have just opened, opened by their patron at the IWM, the Duke of Kent, and it was lovely to meet him and meet my great-grandfather's exhibit there, which, yeah, is yet another reason for us to be proud. He's got this beautiful exhibit about his time in the Auxiliary Fire Service during World War II. It will stand for 20 years. You've got plenty of time to go and have a look.

And hopefully it will inspire more young people to stretch themselves to their ambitions to be whatever they want to be. Well, thank you, Sam. That was inspiring stuff. Great to hear all about your wonderful, well, your life and also that of your fantastic great-grandpa.

Oh, it was my pleasure. Thank you very, very much for featuring me and talking to me. I feel we have the history on our shoulders. All this tradition of ours, our school history, our songs, this part of the history of our country, all were gone and finished.

Thank you for making it to the end of this episode of Dan Snow's History. I really appreciate listening to this podcast. I love doing these podcasts. It's a highlight of my career. It's the best thing I've ever done. And your support, your listening is obviously crucial for that project. If you did feel like doing me a favor,

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