Dan Snow's History Hit - Castillo de San Marcos

Episode Date: September 10, 2020

Allen Arnold joined me on the pod to discuss the Castillo de San Marcos, the oldest masonry fort in the continental United States. Located on the western shore of Matanzas Bay in the city of St. Augustine, Florida, the fort was designed by the Spanish engineer Ignacio Daza. Construction began in 1672, 107 years after the city's founding by Spanish Admiral and conquistador Pedro Menéndez de Avilés, when Florida was part of the Spanish Empire. The fort's construction was ordered by Governor Francisco de la Guerra y de la Vega after the destructive raid of the English privateer Robert Searles in 1668. Work proceeded under the administration of Guerra's successor, Manuel de Cendoya in 1671, and the first coquina stones were laid in 1672. The construction of the core of the current fortress was completed in 1695, though it would undergo many alterations and renovations over the centuries.Subscribe to History Hit and you'll get access to hundreds of history documentaries, as well as every single episode of this podcast from the beginning (400 extra episodes). We're running live podcasts on Zoom, we've got weekly quizzes where you can win prizes, and exclusive subscriber only articles. It's the ultimate history package. Just go to historyhit.tv to subscribe. Use code 'pod1' at checkout for your first month free and the following month for just £/€/$1.

Hi everyone, welcome to Dan's Notes History here. I'm on Plymouth Ho, the great maritime city of southwest England. I'm looking out over Drake Island, looking out of the Great Bay, Plymouth Sound, imagining Sir Francis Drake and Lord Howard of Effingham leading the ships out here in the summer of 1588 against the Spanish Armada, which has been sighted off the Lizard Point. I got my back to the giant Stuart fortifications that were built on top of the hoe here. It is one of the great sites. It's also the place where 400 years ago the Mayflower left this autumn, this fall. I'm here at the moment to kick off this season of commemoration. 400 years since that ship that has come to symbolise the gigantic movement of people across the Atlantic from the 17th century onwards,

with all the attendant demographic, strategic, colonial repercussions on both sides of the Atlantic. There'll be a big Mayflower 400 podcast coming out next week, talking to all sorts of experts and descendants, both the Pilgrims and of course of the Aboriginal First Nations, North Americans, who helped them through that first winter but who would pay a terrible price for their hospitality this podcast is a repeat this is one of our weekly repeat podcasts it's a trip i took a few years ago to florida when i looked around the castillo de san marcos it is the oldest masonry fort in the USA. It's in St. Augustine in Florida.

It was begun in 1672, by which stage the city had already been there, the settlement had already been there for over 100 years. And it was built, obviously, because of English raids down that coast. I was shown around by Alan Arnold. He's an interpretive ranger for the National Park Service. It was a wonderful experience. I think it gets us in the mood to think about European colonization on the North American continent. If you want to listen to other back episodes of this podcast, please go to History Hit TV. It's like Netflix for history. It's got all the podcasts on there, hundreds of documentaries on there, all sorts of good stuff. If you use the code POD1, P-O-D-1, you get a month for free and your second month for just one

pound, euro or dollar. But in the meantime, everyone, here is Alan Arnold taking me round the Castillo de San Marcos. Enjoy. Tell me about this fort, because I came here as a child, and I've been obsessed with it ever since, because it's one of the finest early modern forts anywhere in the world, and surprisingly, it's right here in the USA. You wouldn't expect it. No, you wouldn't.

Matter of fact, even when you learn history here in the US, it usually begins with Europeans landing in Jamestown in 1607. It usually begins with Europeans landing in Jamestown, 1607. Well, 42 years before that, the Spanish were landing and founding St. Augustine. 42 years. I jokingly will say to a lot of visitors who are surprised to see that, that by the time they were stepping off ships and figuring out that it was going to be tough to survive up there, the Spanish were going through urban renewal in St. Augustine. Amazing. So this is

the old, it's called the oldest city in the United States of America, and that's because it is. Yeah, it's, it's the, it's, well, there are little caveats to that. Of course, you know, when you're dealing with historians, you want to be as precise as possible. So it is the oldest continuously settled European colony in North America. Of course, the Spanish tried several other times to colonize on the west coast of Florida, and they failed. So this one, as of 451 years, still strong. Looking strong. And as a result, people should come here. And you actually have to see it to believe it, don't you? It does feel almost like a late medieval European settlement. Yes, yes. A lot of people, first thing they ask is, why don't you have water in your moat? Which is one of the funny things. Yes, it does have the of people, first thing they ask is, why don't you have water in your moat?

Which is one of the funny things. Yes, it does have the very kind of medieval feel to it, but you know, as fortifications change, as technology changes, you end up with something like this, which this design is actually called Trace Italian, or Star Fort. And it's really perfect for artillery fire, which is what the Spanish were concerned with when they were building it. Of course, the base of the walls would be the things you'd want to protect against artillery fire, because enough shots at that base will bring down the whole wall. So you want to build a berm around the fort to intercept that cannon fire. Well, you don't want that berm to be right up against your walls, so you spread it out a little bit. And as a result, you have a moat, a little covered way. And then you have that hill

that we walked up when we came up here around the fort. It's called a glacis. So those things, even though it's not a water-filled moat, it was a useful area. Yeah, I mean, this fort, we should say if people, you know, that sort of star-shaped fort, like the French under Vauban built them, famous in the Low Countries. It feels like you're in Europe here. What is the history of the fort here? Was there an earlier fort and this was an expansion and enlargement on it? Yes, matter of fact, this is the 10th fortification here in St. Augustine. The nine previous fortifications were all wood.

So, of course, there's not much left of them here in Florida. Wood just doesn't last. And when did they start building this one? This one, October 2nd of 1672. And this was kind of on the heels of a couple of events. In 1686, St. Augustine was attacked by Robert Searle, a pirate. And then in 1670, Charleston was founded. That colony, that English colony just to

the north, that basically put those fighting forces within striking range of Spanish Florida. And they realized their wooden forts then would be a little more than, I'd say, a speed bump to an organized force. So they, you know, it's either we better build a serious fortification now or prepare to give up Florida. And so this, I guess, I didn't think about that, but we are sitting at the very northern tip of this mighty Spanish North American empire, are we? Yes. Yes, exactly. And one of the biggest things that I try and get people to understand is the importance of this area, because it's really not apparent when you are here in Florida. I mean, Florida has a lot of mosquitoes, alligators, swamps, things like that, but doesn't have any of the things that you would associate with Spanish colonies, things like gold, silver, spices. So it does make that question, why here? Well, it doesn't take long to figure out,

once you do a little bit of reading about how the Spanish were doing things, that in order to get all the gold and silver and spices they were getting in South America and Mexico back to Spain, you needed a route. And that route was just off the coast of Florida. It was that Gulf Stream, that very large oceanic current. It starts in the Gulf of Mexico, makes its way around the tip of Florida, then up the east coast of Florida, three to five miles an hour. And then it widens and heads east across the Atlantic Ocean. A three to five mile an hour current back then basically doubles the speed of any ship along it. It's essentially their superhighway. So holding on to Florida basically is that insurance policy for those treasure fleets.

St. Augustine is famous not just for being the longest continuous settlement, but it then exchanged hands a few times, doesn't it? I mean, the history of Florida is very, very interesting. I think not many people know about this. Yes. Matter of fact, there have been, just over this fort, this 345-year-old fort has had six different flags flying over it. And each of those changes brought about a pretty large noticeable difference in this city.

But the common thread between them all is that they didn't change through force of action. It wasn't by the tip of the sword. It was by quill. It was treaty talks that transferred power here in Florida. And you can thank the power of this fortification to being that. So this fort was never successfully besieged? Correct. It defended itself. It was laid siege to several times. But in all those accounts, the Spanish were able to fend off the attackers.

This fortification, this settlement, and indeed this territory would remain Spanish until when? Until 1763, and that's at the end of the Seven Years' War. The British had successfully taken Havana, Cuba, as well as Manila over in the Philippines, and both of those were their hubs for their areas. Of course, for the Americas being Havana and for Asia being Manila. So they valued it at that point most likely a lot more than Florida, as well as a couple other things, but the British end up getting a hold of Florida at that point,

and they would hold on to it for about 21 years. What happens then? Well, then at the end of the revolutionary war there's another treaty signed and that gives florida back to the spanish so there's another peaceful transfer of power so and it remains uh spanish until when um until 1821 in 1821 the adams-onis treaty is signed, which gives Florida over to the U.S. And there's a number of $5 million thrown around. Now, the U.S. didn't pay $5 million for Florida, but there was debt forgiveness as well as a couple of other economic things that if you wanted to throw a number out, that's about what it was.

So the U.S. got Florida for $5 million. And General Jackson, who became Andrew Jackson, the president, and we've got Jacksonville just up the coast here, he sort of invaded Florida as well, but he never captured this fort then? No, that was the last siege of St. Augustine, so to speak, in 1812. It was called the Patriots' War. And it would be, there were skirmishes, but it was nothing like the previous sieges that this fort has seen.

There weren't cannonballs being fired at the fort and, you know, long nights of siege and stuff like that. It was an occupation of the area that ended in a withdrawal, basically. Okay, so then Andrew Jackson and then the following treaty and the $5 million figure that goes around. And so after that, did Florida remain part of the United States of America for the rest of history? If there was an American Civil War, I would be able to say yes. But there was an American Civil War. So in 1861, this was a Union fortification.

And a couple days before Florida secedes from the Union, Confederates show up at the door of the fort, and, well, there's a peaceful transfer of power then. It's interesting, though, because during the American Civil War, there's not much in the way of fighting over this area because, well, to give you an idea, the Union only had one guy here. It tells you how much they valued it at that point. It just wasn't usable.

It's no longer defending those trade routes. This port here is a very shallow one, so there's not much trade going on. So it's kind of almost lost its original purpose at that point, but we were still held on to. The Confederacy would hold on to this fort for 14 months before abandoning the area and the Union coming back basically the day after and reclaiming it in 1862 so same flag basically since 1862 land a viking longship on island shores scramble over the dunes of ancient egypt and avoid the

poisoner's cup in re Florence. Each week on Echoes of History, we uncover the epic stories that inspire Assassin's Creed. We're stepping into feudal Japan in our special series, Chasing Shadows, where samurai warlords and shinobi spies teach us the tactics and skills needed not only to survive, but to conquer. Whether you're preparing for Assassin's Creed Shadows or fascinated by history and great stories, listen to Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. There are new episodes every week.

Okay, so that's interesting. So was Florida not very well set? It was almost like an outpost to deny it to the enemy. It wasn't part of a thriving settlement as it is today. I would almost agree with that. Of course, you do have cattle and oranges and indigo and cotton, stuff like that, crops. Agriculturally, it was fairly important.

Supply-wise, but other than that, crops. Agriculturally, it was fairly important, supply-wise. But other than that, it's not the huge insurance policy, so to speak, that it once was. So I guess that's quite interesting. That explains why St. Augustine is so wonderfully preserved because it was a very important place in the 17th, 18th century under Spain, and then history kind of rolled on, and as a result, it was never hugely developed and turned into a huge commercial district or residential. And as a result, we've got this complete jewel left in northern Florida.

Yes, and it's funny that you say that. Actually, in the late 1800s, the Congress, the U.S. Congress, sat down and for the very first time spent $5,000 of federal money to preserve something historical. And that was here at this fort. It set precedents that federal money could be used to preserve history, basically. So this was the first place they spent money on? Yes. And as such, you can see why it's in such a good order, why it's been preserved.

It's been identified as something that is special, very special. So we've come into another, what are these rooms called? Casements. Oh yeah, okay, the casements. So there would have been people sleeping in here or supplies? Yeah, well, during that first Spanish period, this would have been a guard room. It would have been like beds in a firehouse, temporary lodgings for whoever was on duty at the time. And there's a huge fireplace in one

corner. Look, you can see there's a ship up there. There's lots of carvings on the wall. What period are these from? We believe that they are from that first Spanish period. They're ships of the line. Multi-gunned, multi-decked ships carrying cannon with towering masts and sails.

They're amazing, aren't they? Yeah. But this one's got a flag on it. Is that a... Yeah, and that looks like a cross of Burgundy, that Spanish cross. So we think they're Spanish ships. Now, why would they be carving ships? I suppose it ships the most remarkable things that they would have seen,

the biggest and most incredible bits of human ingenuity at the time. Perhaps they were very struck by them. Yes, and they meant a lot of things to you, whether they meant that you were going to get your supplies or you were about to get paid, or they meant that you were about to do your duty as a soldier and defend yourself. So ships, yes, they mean quite a lot too.

If you see some tall ships arriving on this scale, something's about to happen. Exactly, exactly. Break up the boredom perhaps. too. If you see some tall ships arriving on this scale, something's about to happen. Exactly. Exactly. Break up the boredom perhaps. What's this little door over here? This looks like a prison cell. Yeah, that's the car cell, the prison cell. And you know, they're

from time to time, maybe a Spanish soldier that maybe had one too many to drink would be thrown in here. But really, if there are interesting prisoners, the most interesting one would have been during that, once again, that 21 years of British occupation, and that was Christopher Gadsden. He was a lieutenant governor of South Carolina. He was a patriot.

So during the Revolutionary War. Exactly, exactly. He refused to sign a parole and was imprisoned in this small cell for about 42 weeks. 42 weeks in this cell? Yes. Solitary confinement. That's terrible.

You've almost got me sympathising for the rebels and the US War of Independence now. So he was kept in... So if he'd signed parole, that would say, I promise not to escape and he would have been kept in nicer lodgings. Basically. Well, actually, there were three signers of the Declaration of Independence that did sign similar documents, and they were under house arrest in the city.

So if the Brits bagged any signers of the Declaration of Independence, any traitors, they were brought down to East Florida and imprisoned, basically. There were three of them, yes, when they attacked Charleston, yes. Amazing. And now we're sitting in a storeroom here. Have we got artillery positions above us? We do. And what would this room have been full of?

Powder and supplies? So right behind you are some barrels, and those barrels would have been full of rice at one point. Each of these rooms would have most likely been housing a different supply, whether it's been black powder or food. Think of the fort during that first Spanish period as a big warehouse with guns on top of it, kind of like a storm shelter, waiting in preparation. Nobody lives here. They have homes in town. There are guards on duty. But during the siege, any siege, any attack, you bring everybody into the fort, and then you have supplies to keep them alive and defend yourself.

What would have been the worst siege that this fort withstood? Would it have been a British siege during the Seven Years' War? I'm trying to think. So there are two major sieges that happen. The first one would be a 51-day siege. Now, during that time, the entire population of St. Augustine came inside of this fort, which numbered around 1,500. So this fort isn't the largest thing in the world. That's packing it in pretty tight. And they'd be here for 51 days of bombardment.

Well, they had a lot of supplies then. So I would say that that wasn't the worst siege, so to speak. When was that one? That was in 1702. Okay, during the War of Spanish Succession. Yes, yes. And then the second siege in 1740. That one would last closer to a month.

But St. Augustine, well, it was going through a tough time. Supplies, they just didn't have as many as they probably should have had. And Oglethorpe knew this. James Oglethorpe was the leader of that siege for the British. He had spies in St. Augustine that were telling him that this place was running low. I mean, those supply ships weren't coming in. So good time to attack. And he almost takes St. Augustine.

There were a couple issues with communication as well as some weather that forces Oglethorpe to break off the attack relatively early. But he came really close to taking St. Augustine because of supplies, not because of the ability to defeat this fort. I'm always amazed when I'm studying history, especially 18th century history in this part of the world, is most of the outcomes of these expeditions depend on sickness, supplies, weather. And you look at, Sam Willis has wrote a brilliant book about the American War of Independence

from the naval perspective. And there's fleets just being destroyed by hurricanes. Sickness will rip through a camp like they did in the British Army in Havana in the in the Seven Years War. So it must have been a brutal place to campaign. Yes, this is definitely not not a it's an inhospitable place to say the least. But, you know, the Spanish, they they are fairly well prepared for what this land has for them, has in store for them. Each of the homes in town, for example, had their own wells. So you don't have communal wells that can risk wiping out a colony.

You also have a form of waste management. This soil here, it's so sandy, there's not much nutrient in it. So you take your waste and you turn it into night soil, basically, for your little gardens and whatnot. So that, in effect, has that to help with illness. Now, we can go back and look at that now. Now, whether they knew back then that that's what they were doing is a whole other story. But if you lived past, say, the age of 10 or so, you could live into your 70s here. We have records of the Spanish soldiers still drawing pensions into their 70s. I guess the Spanish, because they came here first, they must have actually...

In Britain, we all learn about how terrifying it was for the Brits to be sent out here, and they got ripped apart by fever. Actually, the Spanish probably had worked out survival strategies as a result of them being there that bit longer. I don't have any records of that, so to speak, but I think the proof can be shown by this colony that it is here and it was here so early and it stayed so well protected. But that's not to say St. Augustine was a lively, lovely place to come,

because you've got to remember, it's not a hub of wealth here. I mean, those treasure fleets don't stop by unless they're under attack or they've been shipwrecked along the coast. But yeah, St. Augustine is not a really fun place to be as a Spaniard. There's not a lot of wealth coming through here. It's a military outpost, so it's sometimes just getting the situato, the military pay is a difficult thing here. So these people that were here and that stayed here,

they were a hardy people, for sure. Now, a lot of the buildings, this fort is obviously 17th century, a lot of the buildings in town look very old. Are they kind of reconstructed or a bit Disney-fied? You tell me, I'm kind of interested. Well, the last time the city burned down was in 1914. So I think that might answer your questions there but another interesting thing bring it back to the British connection is during the 21 years the British were here this was during the Revolutionary War

and this was a loyalist colony East Florida, St. Augustine was a loyalist colony so there are 13,000 people that come into this 2,000 person town so there's expansion second stories are added onto buildings 13,000 people that come into this 2,000-person town. So there's expansion. Second stories are added onto buildings. This fort, they knock holes into the wall for ventilation and turn storerooms into bunkhouses, basically. So even the name, St. Augustine, interesting thing.

You know there are Spanish-named colonies here still. We have San Francisco, one of them. San Jose. Well, why don't we call this San Augustine? Well, I don't know if there's a proper answer for that, but think during those 21 years when that new country was being minted just to the north, what did they call this place? It was St. Augustine. So that influence of the British here, even though they were only here for 21 years, still to this day you can see when you're walking down St. George Street, seeing those overhangs that wouldn't have existed during that Spanish period. And then the holes in the fort as well as

the name. So the British have left a big imprint here. Hi everyone, it's me, Dan Snow. Just a quick request. It's so annoying, and I hate it when other podcasts do this, but now I'm doing it, and I hate myself. Please, please go onto iTunes, wherever you get your podcasts, and give us a five-star rating and a review. It really helps, and basically boosts up the chart, which is good, And then more people listen, which is nice. So if you could do that, I'd be very grateful. I understand if you want to subscribe to my TV channel. I understand if you want to buy my calendar, but this is free. Come on, do me a favor. Thanks.