Dan Snow's History Hit - Ethiopia: All You Need to Know

Episode Date: December 16, 2020

Richard Reid joined me on the podcast to talk about the history of Ethiopia.Subscribe to History Hit and you'll get access to hundreds of history documentaries, as well as every single episode of this podcast from the beginning (400 extra episodes). We're running live podcasts on Zoom, we've got weekly quizzes where you can win prizes, and exclusive subscriber only articles. It's the ultimate history package. Just go to historyhit.tv to subscribe. Use code 'pod1' at checkout for your first month free and the following month for just £/€/$1.

Hi everybody, welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit. Now for those of you who've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that I get huge satisfaction from letting everybody know a little bit about the history behind current events, conflicts and big political upheavals in particular, but also cultural events. November 2020, the Tigray region of Ethiopia, the very, very north of that gigantic country in in Northeast Africa, experienced fighting between the Tigrayan regional government and the Ethiopian army effectively. The Ethiopians appear to be aided by the Eritreans as well, which is the country sandwiched between Ethiopia and the Red Sea to the north. This conflict has been going on for around a month now. And because of COVID, it's not perhaps getting the global recognition that it deserves. In this podcast, I'm thrilled to be joined by Professor Richard Reid. He's at Oxford University. He's a historian of modern Africa, particularly Ethiopia. And it was a great chance to ask him about some of the deeper history behind Ethiopia. We haven't talked about it on the pod before. Most importantly of all, the country

has its own fascinating history, the Christianisation and its own experience of conquest and imperialism. Both the hands of Europeans, the Italians, for example, in the late 19th, early 20th century, but actually African imperialism, African state building before that in the 19th century. This is going to be a fascinating podcast. Do please enjoy everybody. If you want to come watch one of these podcasts live, we're going on a tour in October 2021. Post-vaccine tour, everyone. If the whole place is still standing, we're going to be touring. We are going to many of the UK's biggest cities. We are going to do a live show in each. We're going to go on the podcast. We're going to have a great historian there telling us about her or his book. We're going to have a historian tell us about the

local place that we're in, the history of that place. And then we're going to have time for lots of chat and discussion as well. Might even do some social proximity. Looking forward to it. You can go to historyhit.com slash tour to get a hold of that. And as ever, the TV channel is heating up over there at the moment. Go to historyhit.tv. Use the code POD1. P-O-D-1. You get a month for free. You're going to love it. We've got some big news.

We'll let you know the big news on Friday, but it's big news. In the meantime, everyone here is Professor Richard Reid. Enjoy. Richard, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. My pleasure, Dan. It must be mixed feelings as a specialist when suddenly journalists and podcasters come a knocking on the door, because usually it's probably because the country in which you're particularly interested and invested in is experiencing some kind of tumult.

It's a double-edged sword, really.. I mean it's always exciting to be able to explain the historical context of particular situations in Africa. Unfortunately that usually means that something has gone badly wrong. Well let's find out why it's gone badly wrong. Can I just drag you way back to start with? I know we're going to talk mostly about modern history but unlike many other North African countries it occupies a particular place in the European mind through the really early medieval, right the way through to the early modern period. Why is that? This myth around Prester John, this was the idea in late medieval, early modern Europe that somewhere in the east, broadly defined, there was a Christian kingdom of some kind. No one knew where it was. In fact, you know, there are all sorts of possible locations, including Tibet. That was the beginning of the idea that Ethiopia was a country with whom Europe could do business.

The Portuguese, of course, eventually founded in the 15th, early 16th centuries. And I think it was to do with the fact that it was Christian and that it was, at least it had elite literacy and looked like a kind of feudal empire, the kind of state that Europe could relate to. Owing to Ethiopia's own mythology, I think Ethiopians have always been very good at projecting a particular image to a global audience and that really begins in the early modern period. Is modern Ethiopia a kind of a descendant of past iterations? Or is it quite a, is actually like most nation states, quite a contingent sort of boundaries that have been drawn? It's quite contested that idea. I mean, Ethiopia itself is very proud of the idea that

they have hundreds and hundreds of years of continual history. I think it's slightly more problematic than that. There are various iterations of a state in the Ethiopian highlands, in that northern part, including Tigray, which we'll talk about. And in many ways, it begins with the ancient state of Aksum. In the first millennium CE, Aksum collapses, and several hundred years later, you do get the emergence of what is discernibly Ethiopia, at least the nucleus of Ethiopia. But obviously, in that very long period, it goes through all sorts of collapses and various forms of disintegration and invasions and so on. and invasions and so on, I suppose you could argue that at its core, in its Christian Semitic core,

it has this idea of Christian belief, of literacy, of a set of kind of icons around what it is to be Ethiopia, a very commonly held set of cultural reference points. So there is a certain amount of continuity there. But of course, the Ethiopia of the more recent past is quite unrecognisable to that early modern state. And you've mentioned the highlands there. Do the highlands give Ethiopia a kind of geographical coherence that you don't see compared to, say, North and South Sudan to its west? Its mountainous landscape is definitely part of its identity. A sense of separation, I guess, is enhanced as a result from the rest of the region. So one of the longstanding tropes in the highlands is that they are elevated both culturally and physically from the surrounding area, including Sudan, Somalia, the Eritrean Red Sea coast. So yes, is the short answer to that.

It's worth pointing out though that in certain parts of the Ethiopian highlands communication is actually quite difficult in the early modern period. So in fact in many ways when the state disintegrates insurgent groups could actually retreat to particular parts of the highlands and defend those quite easily. So yes, the mountains give the larger Ethiopian state a sense of identity. But within those mountains, it's actually quite easy for the state to disintegrate. So it's ungovernable and unconquerable. Perfect. Ethiopia gets this extraordinary reputation as this place that holds out against the European imperialism, scramble for Africa right until the very, very end. Is that deserved? I mean, is it something almost unique within Africa?

It is unique in the sense that Ethiopia is the only African state that successfully sees off a European invasion. The Italian invasion of 1896, the Battle of Adwa, which of course is widely celebrated and is still a national holiday in Ethiopia today, that permanently sends the Italians packing, although not too far because they stay in Eritrea and of course they stay in Italian Somaliland. But yes, Ethiopia remains independent until the mid-1930s, Mussolini comes back and there's a kind of five or six year period of fascist occupation. That in a way of course enhances Ethiopia's exceptionalismism but I would actually make a

slightly different argument which is that Ethiopia is indeed uniquely successful but actually what Ethiopia achieves in the 1890s represents what is happening more broadly across the continent in terms of military achievements the acquisition of firearms Ethiopia is just particularly good at it in ways that no one else is. But there's no question that it's the fact that Ethiopia actually not only survives the scramble for Africa, but takes part in it and carves up a big chunk of what is today modern Ethiopia. But those areas, particularly in the south and the west, did not actually belong to any kind of ancient Ethiopian state. This was an African state that took part in the scramble for Africa.

And that is what also kind of enhances international images of Ethiopia as not quite African, as somewhere, you know, in the highly racialised language of the time, Emperor Menelik, who's in charge in the 1890s, is seen as, he's described by one European observer as almost European in its ability to carve up less civilised inhabitants. This is the kind of language that's used at the time. Does Ethiopia struggle from that legacy of being an imperial project from the 19th century? Yes, there's always been this tension at the heart of the Ethiopian nation state, that Ethiopia itself is an empire. It has imposed

a localized form of imperialism on various groups, again, particularly in the southern third of Ethiopia, if you can imagine it. And that has complicated its sense of self through the 20th century, because Ethiopia has, at various points in the long 20th century, experienced insurgencies by groups that would claim to have been conquered by, not only by European states, but by a central Ethiopian empire-building elite. So that kind of complicates Ethiopian nationalism. One other thing that's worth mentioning, Dan, is that in the years after the Battle of Adwa, which of course was supposed to be Ethiopia's finest moment, there is actually a group of Ethiopian intellectuals who begin to wonder if winning the Battle of Adwa wasn't the worst thing that ever happened to them.

And this is largely connected to the kind of enduring feudal nature of the Ethiopian state deep into the 20th century, particularly under Haile Selassie, and the idea, misconceived, but a powerful idea among Ethiopians, in fact, that their neighbours under colonial rule are doing much better. State builders have tried different ways of combating the centrifugalism, if we can put it that way, that has always undermined state builders' attempts at cohesion and unity. In the 1930s, for example, when the Italians invaded for the second time, this time more successfully, one of the reasons behind their success was the fact that a number of groups in the north for example joined them against Haile Selassie there were a number of members of the political elite in particular provinces that were willing to work

with the Italians against Haile Selassie who was seen as illegitimate so in the 40s and 50s and 60s when Haile Selassie is restored by the Brits there's an attempt at unifying the state under a series of different constitutions or constitutional arrangements, first of all through the idea of absolute monarchy. Later on, of course, as Haile Selassie reaches the end of the road, there's the rise of kind of socialist ideology within Ethiopia, the idea that perhaps we can tie Ethiopia together through a more agreeable set of constitutional arrangements that recognise Ethiopia's ethnic diversity. I guess the 20th century is defined in those terms.

How do we tie these outlying provinces together? How do we bring about a system that everyone feels invested in? And at times they have failed utterly, in fact, to do that. One of the things that happens in the early 1990s, for example, as the background to where we are now, in fact, the current crisis, is that the, and I don't want to throw too many acronyms at you, but the EPRDF, the Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front, which is a coalition of various rebel groups, including from Tigray, essentially experiments with a federal arrangement and tries to kind of bring about a more equitable representation of various groups at the centre. But I think you're right, it's fair to say that Ethiopia has been very difficult to govern from the point of view of its ethnic and regional diversity. It's one of the very few African states, for the reasons we mentioned earlier, that is supposed to have a deep-rooted sense of itself and a deep-rooted nationalism.

The problem is that that nationalism has for a very, very long time been dominated by one or two groups in the centre and the northern part of the country. That's really at the root of the current crisis in many ways. The campaign to overthrow Mengistu is one that involves a degree of unity among a number of insurgent groups who basically believe in social revolution, ethnic self-determination, a number of key elements in their programmes are shared across what becomes the Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front,

so this big coalition of groups. And of course, at the same time, you've got the insurgency in Eritrea, because at this time in the 60s, 70s, 80s, Eritrea is formally part of Ethiopia, but they're waging their own war for independence. And at various points, they work alongside the other Ethiopian groups. So the legacy of the overthrow of Mengistu is that sense that it's possible to rebuild and redesign an Ethiopia that works for everyone. Now, as it turns out, that has unravelled in the last couple of years. But that's the real, I guess that's the real long-term legacy of the overthrow of Mengistu. Mengistu was the last leader to attempt, in a highly militarised way up until now, to impose a kind of unitary system of government on Ethiopia.

You're listening to History Hit. We're talking about Ethiopia with Professor Richard Reid. More after this. Land a Viking longship on island shores. Scramble over the dunes of ancient Egypt and avoid the Poisoner's Cup in Renaissance Florence. Each week on Echoes of History, we uncover the epic stories that inspire Assassin's

Creed. We're stepping into feudal Japan in our special series, Chasing Shadows, where samurai warlords and shinobi spies teach us the tactics and skills needed not only to survive, but to conquer. Whether you're preparing for Assassin's Creed Shadows or fascinated by history and great stories, listen to Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. There are new episodes every week. Eritrea, which is the northern, the state to the north on the Red Sea. Naively, I assume that Eritrea is sort of confirming its independence from Ethiopia. This conflict looks like a kind of a gradual unravelling that almost begins with that process. Are these just peripheral

bits of Ethiopia like Eritrea did in the 90s or the 80s, 90s, just asserting their sovereignty? Certainly in the case of Eritrea, yes. But they had quite a unique case in that Eritrea had been an Italian colony. So Eritrean nationalists in the 60s and 70s, for example, argued that their struggle was anti-colonial. And it was anti-colonial because Ethiopia was a colonial empire and had illegally occupied them. It was a nationalist case to be made for Eritrea that was not as easy to make for other constituent parts of Ethiopia, including Tigray in the north,

which is neighbouring Eritrea inside Ethiopia, because Tigray was, and very much so saw itself as part of the historic centre of Ethiopia so those struggles were a little more complicated whereas Eritrea could say we are never we were never part of Ethiopia we are our own kind of colonial entity now struggling for independence other parts of Ethiopia could not quite make that sort of cohesive case. How do you characterise the relations between the two countries from the 90s to 20 kind of 18-ish I think it is? Well I mean at this at the centre of that period is a full-scale war between 1998 and 2000 in which tens of thousands of people died. It got a brief bit

of attention but unfortunately as is the case with many conflicts in Africa, the kind of media circus quickly moved on. It ended in 2000 in an uneasy ceasefire. And then you have essentially 18 years of no war, no peace. For those of us who observed the region, kind of assumed that it will be like that forever. You were kind of looking at a kind of Kashmir sort of situation. 2018, there was suddenly a peace deal. Again, that needs to be seen as part of the current crisis. The reformist Ethiopian Prime Minister, Abiy Ahmed, reached out to Isaiah Safaworki, President of Eritrea, and to everyone's surprise, at least my surprise, Isaiah kind of shook his hand and signed the deal.

So everyone's happy in 2018. So why are we talking about Ethiopia now? Because as part of Abe's reform, the Tigrayan nationalist movement, the TPLF, was essentially being sidelined from government. Part of the reason why Eritrea would not do a deal with Ethiopia prior to 2018 was because of the prominence of the Tigray People's Liberation Front in the Ethiopian government. Once the Eritrean saw a chance to participate in the sidelining of Tigrayan nationalists from the centre of Ethiopian government, that's when the deal was made. Unfortunately, that has led to what we have today, which is a serious military confrontation in Tigray with the remnants of the old TPLF, the Tigrayan nationalist movement, fighting both Ethiopian a rivalry kind of alongside and interconnected with the Ethiopian Eritrean rivalry. And by making peace with Ethiopia, the Eritreans kind of shafted the Tigrayans.

Yes. When you put it that way. Yeah, absolutely. Lots of those movements, I mean, and the Eritrean government has its roots in the kind of violent machinations and armed struggles of the 70s and 80s. And in many ways, their foreign policy is still very much based on those principles. There are no permanent friends, only permanent interests. You have to seize your opportunities whenever they open up. You look for areas of leverage. Whenever they open up, you look for areas of leverage. Certainly the last 20 years, the Eritreans have been biding their time in some ways, waiting for an opportunity to get their own back on the TPLF,

who it's widely regarded outsmarted Eritrea during the actual war and then outsmarted them diplomatically after the war. So yes, very much Machiavellian, but very much in keeping with the way the Eritreans operate. What is it about the peace deal between Eritrea and Ethiopia that managed to sideline the Tigrayans? That's the bit I'm struggling with. The TPLF itself was opposed to the peace deal with Eritrea. This, of course, against the background of a great deal of domestic protests that had been building up in recent years in Ethiopia, particularly among the Amhara and Oromo ethnic groups, against Tigrayan dominance of the Ethiopian government. So it's a kind of confluence of various dynamics.

But in simple terms, the peace deal with Eritrea was opposed by the TPLF, and the peace deal with Eritrea within Ethiopia was also part of a programme of reform on the part of Abiy Ahmed to kind of reboot Ethiopia in a sense, relaunch it. And he ended up in fact abolishing the old coalition I mentioned earlier, the EPRDF ceased to be in fact just about a year ago in December 2019. And he replaced that with the Prosperity Party, which the TPLF refused to join.

It's part of a kind of intersection of, you know, grievances and simmering resentments and so forth. Is this a power struggle for Ethiopian power or have they decided to become separatists? That is currently unclear, to be honest. It's a little difficult to read what the TPLF actually do want at this point. It's clear they are bitterly opposed to Abe's government. It's almost certain that they'll be looking for some degree of autonomy within Ethiopia. Whether they can be described as a separatist movement, that remains to be seen. I think it's an Ethiopian issue. I mean, this is a region which has seen more than its fair share over the decades of

international interference. And in fact, in general, I think it's fair to say if I was allowed to simplify, I would say that interference has generally been unhelpful, whether it was the Soviet Union or the US. And I honestly couldn't tell you what the Trump administration's policy toward the Horn of Africa is. I'm not sure anybody could. Certainly in recent years, Ethiopia has been a really important ally to the West, generally in terms of anti-terrorism agendas, and particularly Ethiopia is seen as very much the stable cornerstone of a very large region, including the Red Sea Basin and across parts of the Middle East.

The kind of international angle there is that whatever happens in Ethiopia does actually destabilise Western policy in the wider region. I guess one could argue that in the absence of anyone leaning hard on the Abe government, things may spiral further out of control than they might normally do. What you would normally have seen is, and this may well be happening behind the scenes, but I'm not aware of any overt attempts on the part of Western governments to really lean on the Ethiopian state and say, well, you know, pull your troops back. There needs to be some kind of a ceasefire. What's been surprising about this, Dan, to be honest, is how quickly it has escalated

and how rapidly Abbey has been prepared to send forces in. And, as we understand it, get the Eritreans involved as well. That has been quite shocking, actually. Maybe not how the events have unfolded initially, where the crisis came from, but the speed with which it's escalated has been surprising. Another example, as if we needed it, of people's ability to switch around and diplomatic revolutions taking place and fighting against erstwhile allies. Extraordinary. Where can people read more of your work or learn more about Ethiopia if they listen to this podcast?

I guess the best way to do it would be to buy my latest book. I have written a book about the Ethiopian Eritrea war called Shallow Graves that was published by Hearst just before the lockdown in March. So I wasn't able to have any kind of big book launch or anything. But otherwise, happy for people to contact me through the history faculty website at the University of Oxford. Well Richard Reid I hope everyone does go and buy your book thank you very much for coming and telling us more about Ethiopia I hope we don't have to have you back on if that's a nice way of saying it but we'll get you on for your next book in more benign times hopefully thank you very much. All right my pleasure Dan.

Hi everyone, thanks for reaching the end of this podcast. Most of you are probably asleep, so I'm talking to your snoring forms, but anyone who's awake, it would be great if you could do me a quick favour. Head over to wherever you get your podcasts and rate it five stars, and then leave a nice glowing review. It makes a huge difference for some reason to how these podcasts do. Madness, I know, but them's the rules. Then we go further up the charts, more people listen to us and everything will be awesome. So thank you so much. Now sleep well.