Dan Snow's History Hit - Falklands40: Memories of an Argentine Veteran

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Please note that this episode contains descriptions of conflict and torture that some may find distressing.When the British arrived on the Falklands Islands in 1982, they battled the Argentines. But on the other side, it was a very different story. For the young Argentine combatants, their greatest enemy was not the British, nor the unrelenting terrain—for many soldiers, it was their own commanders...At the beginning of The Falklands War -La Guerra de las Malvinas- as it is known in Argentina, Silvio Katz was just 19 years old. Born and raised in Parque Chacabuco, Buenos Aires, Silvio would find himself amongst the battle for the Falklands, called up while fulfilling his compulsory military service. Joining Dan, Silvio shares his story of the conflict in the Battle of Mount Longdon, the harrowing methods of torture he endured at the hands of his superiors, and his reflections about the war forty years on.Produced by Hannah Ward.Translation by Claudio Molinari Dassatti.Voiceover by Martin Esposito.Mixed and mastered by Dougal Patmore.If you'd like to learn more, we have hundreds of history documentaries, ad-free podcasts and audiobooks at History Hit - subscribe today! To download the History Hit app please go to the Android or Apple store.

Welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit. When the British Expeditionary Force arrived in the Falklands in 1982, they wouldn't just fight the Argentinians, they would struggle against a hostile landscape and cruel weather. And the men in the trenches, the sangas, the dugouts, across from them, the Argentinians, faced not only those challenges, a determined enemy, a difficult landscape and climate, but they also had to deal with an enemy that the British were spared,

their own commanders. In my experience, our worst enemy was the Argentine army. When the British retook the islands, I felt free again. This is Silvio Katz. He was an Argentine soldier stationed in the Falklands, or Las Malvinas, as they were known to Argentinians. He's speaking for the first time, very candidly, about his harrowing experience of torture in the Argentinian army, something that's been documented as more and more veterans come forward to speak. In this podcast he describes anti-Semitism, the Nazi sympathies within the Argentinian officer corps and their physical and

psychological torture. This is a first for Dinosaur's History Hit. We're talking to Silvio, we're talking to an Argentinian veteran of the battle. I'm very grateful for his candor and addressing what must be a very difficult subject for him. Silvio spoke to me through a translator, and this podcast may be disturbing for some listeners. There are descriptions of torture and distressing language. I'm very grateful to Silvio Katz for coming on this episode, and I'd like to salute his courage in speaking out. Enjoy. Silvio, a great honor to have you on the podcast. Thank you. Where did you grow up in Argentina? Hello, Dan. It's also a pleasure for me to share this with you.

I was born and raised in Parque Chacabuco, here in the capital of the Argentine Republic. What was life like growing up for you? Did you ever think about the Malvinas? Was that a big part of your life? Growing up in Argentina was very difficult. I grew up under the military government. And because of my Jewish religion, my outlook on life, and my defense of human rights, things for me got even more difficult. And in relation to Malvinas, it affected me personally, as it did the whole country.

It's a very important part of my life. What did you think about the government at the time? It was scary. Getting stopped by the police and being asked to show your ID in case you had a criminal record was an everyday occurrence. It was a time when most youths of my age were looked upon as potential subversives, cadres of armed political revolutionary groups. When you found out you had to do military service, Silvio, how did you feel when you were being pressed into the army? In my case, I didn't see it as an adventure like others did.

The military to me was the opposite of what I wanted for my life. In my case, I didn't see it as an adventure like others did. The military to me was the opposite of what I wanted for my life. So when I was called to join, I thought, well, there goes a whole year of my life, not knowing what was in store for me, not knowing I would lose so much more. Tell me about arriving in the islands for the first time. What did you and your friends think when you saw them? Our group arrived on April 11th, nine days after the invasion. And since we thought we were there just to occupy the islands,

we came to think of it as a trip to the countryside, a picnic. To us, it was also the opportunity to visit a faraway place in the south and then get back home as if nothing had happened. What did you think about the islands? What do you think about the climate, what they look like, the people? What do you remember about them? My first impression was very emotional. In time, I discovered that the terrain was harsh and that the weather was our enemy. It rained every day. There were almost no buildings, so the wind came in swirls, clothes didn't dry, and little by little I became disillusioned

and I had almost no contact with the locals. I didn't get to know them until the last days of the war. You were stationed on Mount Longdon, that would be the site of a very fierce battle. In the days leading up to it, did you know that you were going to be thrown into battle? Did you feel the fighting get closer and closer to your position? Actually, we were camped in Eliza Cove on the southern coast. We were sent to Mount Longdon, Cove on the southern coast. We were sent to Mount Longdon where the first casualties started to come in. I always thought I'd take part in the fighting. I was always terrified, always scared. War was what I least wanted. And not only that, I thought I'd never survive it. Some Argentine soldiers say they felt like they were trapped between two

enemies, the British and their own government. Does that feel true to you? In my experience, our worst enemy was the Argentine army. When the British took back the islands, we felt we were finally freed from torture. It was the same government that ruled the country, so they brought with them to the islands the torture they practiced on the continent. When the British retook the islands, I felt free again. If it's not too painful, when you say tortured, do you mean the government torturing you, its own soldiers? I wasn't tortured by the British army. I was tortured by the Argentine army, by my own officers.

Why do you think they were torturing you? There are several reasons. One was ideology. I didn't share their thinking. In the beginning, it was psychological. They called us everything. I'll give you a little example. It was the hardest to bear, although it seems funny to me now.

They accused me of killing Jesus Christ, an insult that, apart from bordering on ignorance, would make me over 2,000 years old. Then came the physical torture. Whoever knows the terrain and the weather down there knows there are ditches everywhere, and there were bomb craters too. But these would get filled with water and freeze because of the low temperatures, so our superiors would break the ice and make us submerge our hands and feet in them

with minus 20 degrees centigrade and almost no clothing. Most of us came back suffering from trench foot or circulatory problems. They staked us to the ground, they starved us. I could give you an example for each day we were there. You're listening to Dan Snow's History. More coming up. Did Edison really take credit for things he didn't invent? Were treadmills originally a form of corporal punishment?

And would man have ever got to the moon without the bra? You can expect answers to all these questions and more in the brand new podcast from history hit patented History of Inventions. Join me, Dallas Campbell, as I uncover what really sparked history's most impactful ideas. Each episode, I'll be recruiting the help of experts, scientists, historians, and even a few real-life inventors. Subscribe to Patented History of Inventions wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Matt Lewis. And I'm Dr. Eleanor Janaga.

And in Gone Medieval, we get into the greatest mysteries. The gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research. From the greatest millennium in human history. We're talking Vikings. Normans. Kings and popes. Who were rarely the best of friends. Murder.

Rebellions. And crusades. Find out who we really were. By subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. Were you also involved in battle? On top of this, did you also face the threat of being killed or wounded in the fighting? Yes, I took part in the last two days of fighting on Mount Longdon. I was shot in the leg.

If I had been shot through the head or the heart, I wouldn't be here chatting with you today. What do you remember about the British on Mount London? Did they get close? How was the behaviour of the British soldiers? During the battle we were at, let's say, a prudent distance, we only got to see each other's faces after it was over. Did they treat your wounds? Did they treat you well?

I was taken to town, which was about nine or ten kilometers away. There I was treated by British doctors and the Red Cross that had already landed on the island. They fed me and selected me as one of the wounded to be sent back to the continent on a hospital ship. I have the best memories of the British soldiers I came across. Those hours of fighting, was that terrifying? Those hours of fighting, was that terrifying?

It was terrifying and totally crazy. Grabbing a weapon on whichever side you were on and playing to be God, getting to choose who will live and who won't. I think nobody has pleasant memories or great feelings about the fighting. Not us, not the British. When you got back from the war, what was the attitude of the Argentinian people towards you and the other veterans? It took the authorities 10 years to acknowledge us as veterans.

We were forgotten and swept under the rug, as it were, because of the shame of having lost the war. By the way, the military government lasted another year and a half, so it wasn't just that government. We were forgotten, we were blamed for the defeat. Something that doesn't make sense to me, because grabbing a weapon and stepping into a battlefield is already a defeat

and when someone dies no matter what side they're on it's also a defeat for humanity I think nobody expected a defeat so they blamed us soldiers for it 40 years later how do you feel about your experiences as a whole now? How do you look back on them? 40 years later, I feel that these experiences have made me who I am today.

I think 19-year-old Silvio stayed on the island. And the next 40 years I spent reinventing myself, thinking what I wanted and didn't want, getting to where I am now. This place where I'm happy, giving talks, helping people remember the war so it won't happen again. Why is it important to fight, to keep fighting even 40 years later, to right the wrongs that were done to you? For me, it's very simple to explain. I have two sons.

One is 20 and the other one is 17. And I can't imagine them not studying, not working. I imagine them being happy and not having to go to war. So if I refuse to remember the war or to explain why it happened, I would be allowing for the possibility of my children being dragged into a war that to me makes no sense at all. dragged into a war that to me makes no sense at all. I've talked to many British veterans for this anniversary and many of them still have nightmares.

Many of them struggle psychologically. Is that true of you 40 years later? For me, it's been a struggle. I've put my suffering and pain behind me and focused on the joy of having a family and children. I still have nightmares, obviously. Malvinas is a great part of my life, and that doesn't go away. But I try to turn those nightmares and that

suffering into a story that can help change that little bit of history around me. Are you able to travel now to the islands and would you want to go back there? It's possible, but it's very expensive. I was lucky to go back twice since 1982 and would love to go back. My first trip allowed me to share it with other people. As I said before, 19-year-old Silvio stayed in Malvinas. However, the second time I went, in 2001, my wife came back pregnant with my first child. So to me, Malvinas gave me more than it took away, because my sons are my pride and joy, and one of them was conceived there.

That's very beautiful. That's very beautiful. And obviously, on your visits back, you have talked to the islanders and understand more about their life and their views. I did in 2001, but with very few people. The war was very recent and not many wanted to chat with Argentinians. But in 2017, I went back with both of my sons to show them my story, and that time I was able to interact with the islanders. It was very positive I could explain to them that we were forced to fight in a war that

made no sense. And they told us that they felt anger not hate towards our government at the time for sending such young kids to create havoc sylvia i've learned a lot from this conversation we need less war more visiting and talking and more conceiving of babies i agree totally thank you very much for coming and doing this interview. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. What's a real pity is that I can't finish this interview like I finish my talks with a hug. I hope there's an opportunity in the future. Big hug back at you, man. Thank you very much much thank you so much thank you

thank you very much to sylvio cats for speaking out on this podcast hannah ward performed miracles making this episode happen. Thank you to her for producing it. The translation was by Claudio Molinari de Sarti and voiceover by Martin Esposito. Mixed and mastered as ever by Dougal Patmore. See you next time. Thank you.