Dan Snow's History Hit - The Battle of Arnhem with Al Murray

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

Al Murray, host of WWII podcast We Have Ways of Making You Talk joins Dan to tell the story of the most catastrophic 24-hours the British military faced in the Second World War. Known as ‘Black Tuesday’ the battle of Arnhem was a daring but doomed attempt to secure a vital bridgehead across the Rhine in order to end the war before Christmas 1944.Al takes Dan through a moment by moment retelling of those 24 hours, the key characters, what went right, what went wrong and where bad decisions were made and opportunities squandered.His new book is called ‘Arnhem Black Tuesday’Produced by James Hickmann and edited by Dougal Patmore.Enjoy unlimited access to award-winning original documentaries that are released weekly and AD-FREE podcasts. Sign up HERE for 50% off for 3 months using code ‘DANSNOW’.We'd love to hear from you - what do you want to hear an episode on? You can email the podcast at [e-mail] can take part in our listener survey here.

Hello everybody, welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit. It is Tuesday the 19th of September 1944 and the battle hangs in the balance. Operation Market Garden. A hugely ambitious Allied assault north across the various branches of the Rhine River system to seize bridges, drive a corridor that will lead into the industrial northwest of Germany and bring the Third Reich to its knees, possibly by Christmas 1944. That operation is underway. Thousands of airborne troops have landed along a long, narrow corridor, stretching up through Holland. An armoured thrust is smashing its way north through German positions, trying to relieve

those beleaguered airborne troops, one unit at a time. In the very north of that airborne drop, in that area of operations, are British troops in the town of Arnhem, the town that will give its name to this battle. At one minute past midnight on the 19th of September, it was still possible that the Allies would win a victory. The British had seized the north end of the mighty bridge over the river at Arnhem. British troops were still on the outskirts of Arnhem in large numbers. It was possible they could coalesce, they could consolidate their positions in the town, they could take the rest of the bridge, dig in, and wait for the cavalry to arrive.

But 23 hours and 59 minutes later, the situation looked very different indeed. This would become known as Black Tuesday. And to talk me through Black Tuesday, I got one of the best in the business. He is a national treasure. He already bestrides the world of comedy in acting as a colossus. He fills venues across the land, across the world. But now he's only going and flexing his muscles a brilliant historian as well. He's Al Murray, host of We Have Ways of Making You Talk podcast, a true ledge, a great friend of the podcast. He has written a book, Black Tuesday, on what happened on that fateful day in Arnhem

as the British attempted to retrieve a situation that had definitely gone a bit awry, but was not yet a hopeless cause. Could the British take and hold the bridge at Arnhem? Could Operation Market Garden succeed? Could the Allies be in North Germany in just days' time? Find out on the podcast, folks. This is the second of two episodes we're doing to commemorate the Battle of Arnhem,

fought 80 years ago this week. And also, this is part of a wider series, which we're calling D-Day to Berlin, follows the key events in the Allied liberation of Europe from D-Day in 1944, all the way through to V-Day in 1945. Make sure you follow the podcast wherever you listen, so you get the latest episodes inserted directly into your brains. Enjoy. enjoy oh it's good to have you back on the podcast Al Murray it's my great pleasure thanks for having me right we've heard all about why we've got here

why these young men are fighting in Arnhem why the people of Arnhem are well trapped between the heaven of liberation and the hell of terrible grinding urban conflict coming to their doors and their gardens. The sun is coming up on that fateful day. Give me the picture of the battlefield. Well, the picture of the battlefield is this. At the bridge at Arnhem, the road bridge at Arnhem, because there are two others which failed to be captured, the pontoon bridge and the railway bridge. At the bridge at Arnhem, because there are two others which failed to be captured, the Pontoon Bridge and the Railway Bridge. At the bridge at Arnhem are 2nd Parachute Battalion, led by Colonel John Frost, the 1st Parachute Brigade's headquarters, various divisional troops, lots of sappers,

all sorts of various people who've managed to get to the bridge on the Sunday night and now on the first thing on the Tuesday morning are repulsing further German attacks. And they've had a very, very hard night, but there they are. They've German attacks. And they've had a very, very hard night. But there they are. They've taken the bridge. They're holding the object, just one end, but they're holding the bridge and making it pretty much impossible for the Germans to winkle them out. So that's the situation at the bridge.

In the town, about a mile west of the bridge, in the town of Arnhem itself, in an area called the Lombok Estate and then around St. Elizabeth Hospital and the two roads that split and with an embankment between them beside the river you have elements of four battalions trying to fight their way through the town to get into the bridge you have first parachute battalion led by David Doby who've been duffed up the previous two days trying to pull this same thing off. You have 3rd Parachute Battalion led by John Fitch. He's got about 150 guys left from the 550 he arrived with two days previously, scattered about, and he's going to put in an attack.

You have 11th Parachute Battalion who've been sent into the town, taken away from their brigade and sent into the town to join this push. And 2nd Battalion, the South Staffordshires, who are push and second battalion south staffordshire's who are an air landing battalion they're not parachutists they come by glider there's more of them and they're more heavily armed and they're going to try and coordinate an attack into the town itself to push through pop into the town and then get to the bridge okay it sounds to me like at this stage of the battle the brits are are still, as our American brothers and sisters say, they're still on offense. They still think that they can take this town.

They can take this bridge. They're still hopeful. They're optimistic. Well, they're absolutely determined that they're going to. We have to get through to Johnny Frost at all costs. There's an O group, an orders group, at about one o'clock in the morning that night in a house in this area where these battalion commanders get together and discuss what to do. By the light of a guttering candle, they go, right, we've absolutely got to, we've got to get through the town.

And they've been told by divisional headquarters not to bother and then told to try again. So there's a great deal of confusion. You also have, new to the situation, 4th Parachute Brigade who've landed the afternoon before, 1,500 hours on the afternoon before, led by Brigadier John Hackett, Shan Hackett, who's an Irish-Australian cavalryman who can speak six languages, an Oxford graduate, did a paper on Saladin. He's an incredibly clever man, and he certainly knows he's an incredibly clever man, and he knows he's by far the cleverest man in Arnhem. But his brigade has arrived arrived and he is absolutely determined

to push on and make a difference. But the key factor is at this moment, at the start of Tuesday, the 19th of September 1944 in Arnhem, Major General Roy Urquhart, the GOC of 1st Airborne Division, is missing.

He has gone missing. He's gone ahead to find out what's going on. He's pushed on. He's got lost. He's got separated from his own headquarters, then separated from the headquarters of 3rd Parachute Battalion. He's running around the streets of Arnhem, described by one other officer like a great wet hen. He has with him the brigadier of 1st Parachute Brigade, Gerald Lathbury, who's been having a whale of a time shooting at people and throwing gammon bonds and nearly kills Urquhart with his Sten gun going off by accident. And they are running around in the Lombok estate with an intelligence officer and sundry others.

And they run into Captain Jimmy Clemenson from 3 Para, who has been involved in the fighting the previous two days. And he says, I wouldn't go around that corner if I were you. There's Germans there. And Roy Urquhart says, no, we've got to have a look. Come on, Gerald. And they run across the road. And I was very fortunate 20 years ago, Jimmy Clemonson described all this to me in the precise spot it happened. They run across the road and the road is a road in this housing estate. And it's a grid like housing estate. The roads run up to where the railway line is. And the Germans were in the railway line and firing machine guns on fixed positions down the roads that ran off the railway line, down the hill to the houses at the other end. So basically creating beaten ground. And they're firing

these guns randomly. And Urquhart sprints across, Lathbury after him. Lathbury's hitting the back. Clemenson comes with them. Lathbury's hitting the back. They drag him across the road. They drag him into a house. They dump him on the civilians there. Then a German comes knocking on the door. Urquhart shoots the German dead. And then they go into the house next door and hide in the attic. And at the point we're talking about, where you have this attempt to push into the town, where there's no brigadier because the brigadier is missing.

And no one knows where they are. The rumors are that they're dead or captured And no one knows where they are. The rumours are that they're dead or captured. No one knows where they are. Urquhart, when he should be making these decisions, when you have this new brigade in town and he's pushing to the town to get to the bridge underway, Urquhart is literally stuck in a loft, wondering what on earth to do next.

And so there's this extraordinary vacuum in 1st Airborne Division, a command vacuum, at the precise moment they need to make some big, difficult decisions. So the General Officer of GOC, General Officer Commanding, is running around like a Boy Scout, almost by himself. It's hard to believe, hiding in an attic at the exact moment that these disparate units fighting for a couple of days. Also, is this their last chance to act in unison and really try and fulfil their mission? Yes, I think so, because 4th Parachute Brigade arrived on a Monday afternoon and they land on a drop zone that's being contested between 7th King's Own Scottish Borderers and the Dutch SS, who happened to have rallied to the cause to try and stop Market Garden succeeding.

But his brigade is pretty much intact. And although one of his battalions is sent into the town, he says what he wants to do with the two he's got left is proceed with the plan as planned, which is to try and hook around the town to the north of Arnhem and hook that way through this wooded area up to the high ground and the woods that lie north of the railway line and north of the village Oosterbeek, which is the village to the west of Arnhem itself. But a feature of this command vacuum is that before Roy Urquhart embarks for Holland, as he gets on the glider two days before, he says to his chief of staff, Charles McKenzie, Colonel Charles McKenzie, he says,

look, in the unlikely event of my going missing, this is the line of succession. Brigadier Lathbury, who's the fellow that's been running around with him and is now lying prostrate in someone's kitchen, paralyzed in the spine with a bullet in the spine. Brigadier Hicks, who's the air landing brigadier, who's a very sensible First World War MC holding stout chap. And then Hackett, who's this fiery, super ambitious, very young brigadier. That's the order of succession. Lathbury, H and then Hackett, who's this fiery, super ambitious, very young brigadier. That's the order of succession. Lathbury, Hicks, Hackett. Lathbury's order of combat, as we know, Hicks is literally the only brigadier left in honour because Hackett hasn't arrived yet. So Hicks is given the job by the chief of staff. But the problem is his urquit hasn't explained this to anyone except his

chief of staff. The brigadiers don't know that this is the order of succession in the event of him going missing. Now he has gone missing. And when Hackett turns up, he's livid with the decisions that have been made. He's furious he's had his battalion taken off him. He thinks that it's all very uncoordinated and a terrible situation. Goes to divisional headquarters, turns up and causes an enormous scene. One of those moments in history where I'd absolutely love to be a fly under the wall because everyone since then has denied it. Some of the divisional staff are going, you must come downstairs.

The brigadier's having this fantastic row, you know, come and have a listen, right? And they go to the corner and it was terrible row and Hackett, even though he's much younger, he's maybe 15 years younger than Hicks, says, well, look, I became a brigadier two months earlier than you. So I have seniority here. So if you don't give me the answers I want, I became a brigadier two months earlier than you. So I have seniority

here. So if you don't give me the answers I want, I will claim seniority and take control of the division. And you just think at this precise moment where this spiral of possibilities and events running out of control is happening, someone's arguing about that. It's a remarkable moment because at the moment where you need decision and cool heads, you've got people having this ghastly row. And so Hackett then writes himself some orders, proceeds to go ahead with what he's going to do anyway, which is to hook round through the woods to the north of Oosterbeek.

And the day unfolds from there. And in the town, the battalion commanders you've met, they decide to put a coordinated attack up the hill into the town by the river. The 3rd Parachute Battalion put an attack anyway that no one even knows about. The other battalions don't know about the rest of town. So they put an attack. They get kind of down to the end of the embankment and then they're repulsed and they retreat. And as they retreat, they meet one power coming the other direction. There's this fantastic exchange between David Doby, the colonel in charge of one power, and this fellow coming the other way, Dorian Smith,

who's an officer he knows from the old days in North Africa. And he says, where do you think you're going? He says, I'm going up the river. He says, I wouldn't bloody go there if I were you. Why not? It's full of mortars and machine guns. He says, only a bloody fool would go there. And they have one of these extraordinary, like, don't be ridiculous,

our boy. As one lot are retreating and the other lot are going forward and the germans have armored fighting vehicles they're dug in they've built weapons pits with drums full of sand and all this stuff and have fortified the end of the embankment that the powers are trying to get to so one power repulsed the point where lieutenant colonel fitch is killed on the withdrawal. Three power repulsed. David Doby's captured. The South Staffords go, because the road divides right by the river. South Staffords go up the hill and they get to a building that's called the Monastery by everybody,

although it's actually the town museum. They get to the monastery. They dig into the monastery. And then the Germans basically stand off with tanks and self-propelled guns or whatever. And they try and repulse these armored fighting vehicles until they run out of anti-tank ammunition. They're Piat, the Haman portable anti-tank ammunition. And then they withdraw. Eleven para have come up on their left flank, are told to withdraw. So there's this sort of withdrawal further back into Arnhem, into the west of Arnhem.

And then they're caught in the open by a proper German mortar barrage. And basically what's left of the men in the town by noon, the battalions have all lost their coherence. One power has been destroyed. Three power has been destroyed. 11 power have been overwhelmed and ceased to exist. And the commanding officer of 11 power, a fellow called George Lee, Lieutenant Colonel George Lee, he's so mortified by what happens and what he regards as his failure in Arnhem. He never goes to a battalion reunion. He never goes to anything for the rest of his life because he's carrying that with him.

What happens? He's captured and the south staffs are reduced. You know, there's a sort of about 400 men left in the town out of four battalions who then exit Arnhem and head west towards Oosterbeek, away from the bridge. You're listening to Dan Snow's History. There's more to come. I'm Matt Lewis. And I'm Dr. Alan Orjanaga. And in Gone Medieval, we get into the greatest mysteries. The gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research. From the greatest millennium in human history. We're talking Vikings.

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Wherever you get your podcasts. So away from the bridge, so you kind of give up that attempt to get to that all-important bridge, because what the houses in between have been turned into little fortresses as you say there's german there's heavy armored vehicles yeah it's impossible and you have no answer to the armored fighting vehicles and also what you don't have is the firepower that the allies have been using throughout northwest europe up to this point the allied way of war in normandy is based around the infantry have to do the last hard bit but it's based around using overwhelming artillery firepower to make the germans keep their heads down so that you can attack them and when they counter-attack so that you can wipe them out

when they counter-attack and an airborne division like first airborne division simply doesn't bring this with them they haven't got the means to do this they have artillery but it's at the complete lightest end of what the British and Americans offer. They've got a little 75mm pack howitzer that's designed to be broken down and carried by mules for mountain soldiers. It's not like the 25 pounder that the British have and up from there, all the different howitzers and guns that the Allies have. They haven't got the firepower. Because you can't put those in the back of a glider. You can't throw that at the back of a plane. They're not air portable. They can't do it. And so they're having to fight

in a way that the rest of the Allied armies in Western Europe, Northwest Europe, aren't doing. Attacking is very, very difficult in Second World War warfare. It's really hard. And if you haven't got the firepower to do it, it's much, much more difficult. What's interesting is the artillery works to the extent it could work, but it's just nothing like enough. You know, there's an attack in late July in Normandy where one of the Canadian divisions calls up fire support for three flanking targets and delivers 59 tons of shells in three minutes on German flanking targets,

not even on the main targets. And that 59 tons, that's more, far more ammunition the 1st Airborne Division able to bring with them, far more guns they're able to bring with them. You know, that's just one shoot one afternoon. What you have is this peculiar thing that the airborne guys, they're the lightest of light infantry imaginable. They haven't got the Allied way of war at their disposal. And so the Germans find, in a sense, that the tables are turned, that they are now able to fight in three dimensions exploit their firepower exploit their armor and the airborne guys just

can't do it and in the woods fourth parachute brigades battle in the woods you have the battalion commanders going well you know the element of surprise that we have as parachutists has worn off because after all we landed yesterday we're relying on the enemy to run away. And they don't. The older enemy-not-conforming-to-my-wishes problem in warfare, Al. Yes. Well, General Hackett says, unless the enemy changes his plans at some point this morning,

I'm afraid we're going to have to call off this attack. I mean, it literally is that exact conundrum. So Hackett does call off his attack, two of his battalions having been absolutely shattered in the effort. Major Potts is the commander of a company in 156th Power Battalion. He's a religious man. When he's training in Palestine, they do exercises by the Sea of Galilee. They do parachute drops by the Sea of Galilee. And he sits there thinking, well, the Sermon on the Mount happened over there, and he's relating it all to his Bible studies. He's relating it all to his Bible studies. And he gets up, says to the men what's left of his company, says, though I have failed you all by leading you into the jaws of death, there is a greater Lord who seeks a higher purpose in what we're doing.

And you sort of think, if your company commander is saying that to you, it's really terrible. And he gets to his objective. He gets to his company objective. He sets off with about 110, 120 men. He gets to his company objective with eight blokes left, and then he's shot through the wrist of the leg and that's it, game over. And these battalions are shredded in this fight in the woods.

It's pretty predictable it's going to go like this. And Hackett has to withdraw and his men, around about the same time that you have the retreat from the town, there's a retreat in the area in the woods. And that's also the precise moment where the polish gliders arrive with the polish heavy kit because the polish parachutists have been cancelled due to fog but their gliders still turn up with a heavy kit who land in the withdrawal as 10th parachute battalion 156 and the king's and scottish borders are withdrawing and there's this extraordinary situation where Polish gliders are landing.

No one can tell who's who. The Poles speak Polish. The Brits don't know if they're Germans or Poles. The Germans think they don't know who's who. And there are all these very odd moments where people sort of run into each other in the woods and they think, are they Poles or are they Germans? And they eye each other up. No, they're Germans.

So they fight them. It's just absolute pandemonium. There's a really, really brilliant account by one of the company commanders called Jeffrey Powell. And he says, as they're retreating across the field, there's a body of about 500 men. And he thinks, I want to run to get to the front of the column so I can control my lads, bring my lads to me.

But if I run, everyone will run and it'll be a panic. There'll be a panic on and there'll be a rout and we really will have had it. And the brigade major of 4th Parachute Brigade, he threatens to shoot anyone who runs. So there's a very, very big dramatic moment that afternoon with people who've had enough and fair enough because they've run into armoured vehicles

with anti-aircraft cannon lowered and fired at them, these 20mm cannon. It's really, it's awful by about three o'clock. And then the Polish gliders having come in awful by about three o'clock and then the polish gliders having come in then at three o'clock the ref turn up to deliver supplies because if you're an airborne division the one thing you're relying on is airborne supply certainly two three days into an operation for ammunition for medicine for food cigarettes fuel and the ref don't know that first airborne division don't hold the supply dropping zone. And so disaster ensues with planes coming in at 600 feet at 100 knots straight into

the anti-aircraft trap the Germans have set for them. And it's carnage. And Flight Lieutenant Lord wins the VC because his planes hit. He goes around again and the men throw supplies to the aircraft as it's going down. And one of the crew has thrown clear, so he was able to offer his witness citation for the VC. And as that plane goes down, everyone watches it. The men are on the ground going, go away, stop it.

Please don't try and drop supplies. The enemy control the drop zone, all this sort of stuff. And Geoffrey Powell, as he's watching this plane go, turns to the guy with him and says, that bloke just won himself a VC. So it's desperate stuff. And in 10 powers retreat, there's an officer called Lionel Quiripel.

Who's a captain who's just been on his company commander's course. And he's going backwards and forwards across the road that 10 power tried to cross with his pipe between his teeth. Come on chaps walking backwards and forwards as the Germans fire cannon fire down the road, absolute pitch of insouciance. And he's last seen, he tells his men to get out, and he's last seen with his two pistols and a hand grenade,

going off to get the Germans. And he also is awarded the Victoria Cross because his selflessness and his coolness under fire is kind of the only thing that keeps everyone going. There's a moment at three o'clock that's completely desperate. The way that you've set this up is so clever because it reminds me that this is fighting as it might have been in some episodes on the Eastern Front. The only way to still attack in this way and to gain some ground is to use a multiple

number of men that they've actually got available, right? You do it the Soviet way. You just use thousands and thousands of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And with great determination. And you know, John Waddy is one of the company commanders in 156. He gets to within 20 yards of one of these armoured fighting vehicles by sheer guts and grit. And then he's shot in the belly by a sniper. They close with the enemy, these guys. It's absolutely incredible.

But to what end? And you do wonder what Hackett really thought he could ever achieve by trying to swing round through the woods. Because after all, previous efforts by 1st Air around through the woods because after all previous efforts by first airborne the two days before that fighting in that area have all failed as well so you sort of wonder really what on earth he thought he was going to get out of doing this and whether those men could be better used somewhere else or better used for creating a defensive position which is after all where the division ends up by the end of the day before we get off the end of

the day at dawn that day was the arnh up by the end of the day. Before we get off the end of the day, at dawn that day, was the Arnhem, was it still in the balance or without anyone knowing, was it a lost cause? I think it's kind of almost the men in one and three power in the South Staffords, they get really close to getting into the town. They get very, very close to getting into the town. You kind of feel with an extra two battalions trying to do that, maybe they'd have succeeded. Maybe they would have succeeded.

But I don't know. One of the big reasons I wrote the book and came to this approach of trying to write about the single day is 20 years ago when I made this program, Road to Berlin, that still pops up every now and again as a repeat, we sat on the Jeep we took around Europe by Yarnham Bridge the eve of the anniversary of the battle. And I was arguing, my producer saying,

we've not put the battle in the woods in, into the story. Why not? He goes, well, it's all very complicated. And I said, well, let's assume our viewer can keep up. We were having that classic conversation when you make a TV. And as we sat there, this old boy in the red beret, you know, there were plenty of veterans around 20 years ago, comes over on his walking stick and he goes, there you are, the BBC.

And we're like, actually, we're the Discovery Channel, our boy. He goes, there you are, the BBC. And he was Northern Irish, for those who are uncertain. Yet again, you're going on about the bloody glamour boys at the bridge. He says, me and my mates, we were cut to pieces in the woods and no one ever remembers us. And the thing is that in your general nine day account of the battle of arnhem the battle in the woods is a portion of tuesday so it's a third of one of nine days and i really wanted to make it because it's a third of urquhart's rifle strength is destroyed

in that day i wanted to really look at give it the weight the weight in the story that sometimes it misses and the importance of that decision and then the outcome of that decision that sometimes gets sort of faded out of the account this is sort of alarms and excursions off stage in the woods involving fourth parachute brigade and then they come in and they eventually get back into oosterbeek and become part of the story of the siege in the outskirts of the village. And I wanted to put it central to the story because it is central. There's a moment, I think, at midnight where I had Urquhart been in his headquarters. He may have made very different decisions about what to do with 4th Parachute Brigade and he may have turned the battle quite differently.

Obviously, then the German reaction changes because that's the other thing. You can't just pull one lever and a what if. It then affects absolutely everything else. But if you pull that one lever what difference might it have made might the germans have not realized until the last minute that the british were putting a far greater effort in maybe they'd have been at a flank in the railway line around the railway line in the town maybe it would have panned out different with an extra two battalions but but they didn't so we'll never know because that's part of the joy of history and certainly every arnhem account i have ever read and i've been familiar with the

battle for quite a long time every account i read it willing them to get it right this time just this once and then you know the parallel world will emerge yep you listen to dan snow's. There's more coming. It's extraordinary, our brain's ability to kind of trick us into thinking that the outcome can be different. It's so fascinating. And Arnhem does that more than almost any other battle in history. So let's get back to the narrative. You've got these troops, they're reeling back through the woods. Those other survivors are also retreating

from their attempt to break into the town in that more direct sort of east-west direction almost. Where are they all going now? They're retreating. Where are they all going? Well, the people in the town are streaming back the way they've come into the town, which is under the railway line that comes up from the south of Arnhem. There's a railway arch. They come in through there into the village of oostabik itself most of their officers have been killed or wounded or left behind or captured so the men don't know what to do and there's a couple of officers and there's most famously robert kane who's a guy who wins a vc sort of from then on really and he's a wildly brave man extraordinary man and the

commanding officer of the light regiment, which is the artillery that they've brought with them, a guy called Sheriff Thompson, who's a fantastic sort of character. He sees this trickle of men coming back. They're all heading West as if they're going back to the drop zones, as if they're going back to where they've come from. Because the thing about airborne operations, there is no rear. And this of course is the Banner Brothers thing. Of course we're surrounded, we're paratroopers, right? But there is no rear, but they're sort of heading that way. So Thompson sees this and these guys are coming back and they're and they're all shattered they've had two awful days with the climactic disaster in the town

and he sets up a roadblock he gets people making tea he gets cigarettes together what he does he takes off his parasmock so he's in his battle dress he gets his sten gun he puts on his red beret takes his helmet off and he goes up up. And he, again, he's very forceful, issuing orders and telling the men to dig in. And there's a sergeant who goes, thank God someone's here with some orders because we're out. We're done. We don't know what to do. And he gets them to set up a blocking line at the bottom, the south of the division's position, which is the last road before the river, for the stretch of open land before the river.

And I think, for my money, he saves 1st Airborne Division that afternoon by stopping these guys, by getting them in place and by putting in a blocking line. Because otherwise, the Germans could come through and then you're cut off from the river and you are actually surrounded. You haven't even got the river to sort of butt onto. And then they'd have really, really, really, really, really been in enormous trouble the

following morning and thompson is you know a no-nonsense character and is very very like forceful about going forward and sorting things out and that is also the other thing i really wanted to talk about in the battle because they then hold on from the wednesday through to the following monday how how this division has been, in its offensive capability, shattered, destroyed by the Germans. And the Germans now only have the advantage. How on earth do they dust themselves down, pick themselves up, and then hang on

against an enemy they know is formidable? How do they do it? And that's the sort of core mystery, really, for me of the Battle of Arnhem, which is why I wanted the book to end before that happens, because it's even more miraculous. Because if you get to the end of the Tuesday, the writing's on the wall. Surely they've got a day left, maybe two, but they don't.

They hang on for all this extra time. And I really wanted to try and put in the feeling of what will happen next because we don't know. So at the end of the day, the new positions in the south of the Oostabek developing perimeter. Yeah, so what is it? Perimeter. So there's a sort of an area forming

on the north bank of the river. A thumb shape. Which is where the remnants of this division, all these people have been dropped, where they're all kind of gathering. It's ad hoc. It's pretty chaotic, but they're forming a perimeter there.

Exactly. There's sa there exactly there's sappers there's resc service corpsmen reoc men there's lots and lots of glider pilots there's sort of 1800 glider pilots effectively three battalions of glider pilots who've all been trained as pilots but also are soldiers also you know they've been trained to be soldiers too although a lot of them are like i wasn't really up for this but there we are here we are and there's a very famous account called on andem Lift by a guy called Louis Hagen, who's a German Jewish glider pilot, who's an extraordinary character,

who once they're sort of surrounded, he spends his time creeping around, you know, calling out who goes there in German and finding out what's going on and eavesdropping. He's the most amazing man. Anyway, so there's this perimeter forming. The people from the woods, retreating from the woods, Captain Enius Perkins of 4th Squadron RE, he finds a culvert, a little tunnel,

under the railway embankment, and they're able to get their jeeps out through there. So 4th Parachute Brigade are getting their transport, getting their jeeps, getting some of their guns under the railway. As the men climb over the embankment and come down the other side, 10 para and 156 para,

they then dig into positions outside the existing divisional area. So that their quandary is whether to come in that night or whether to wait. And Brigadier Hackett opts to wait, which is, in my view, a peculiar decision. But the day they've had, why wouldn't you? Why would you think we just can't do anything else today? The guys need two hours sleep or whatever they're going to get. They need a minute off. And so this perimeter forms and then all this time first battalion the border regiment who

are glider soldiers they've been guarding the western side of of the divisional area they haven't had any of this kind of stuff they've dealt with german attacks they've dealt with probing german attacks but they've had none of the dramas that everyone else has had to deal with but they shorten their lines and then the germans start to up the pressure at the none of the dramas that everyone else has had to deal with. But they shorten their lines, and then the Germans start to up the pressure at the end of the day on the western side, on the opposite side of the battlefield. On the left, as you look at it on the map, by the end of the day, they're under pressure on the western side, and the Germans have reached essentially the eastern side of the divisional position

and are probing that area and there's a hospital in a hotel the surenord hotel that's right on the corner of the edge of the used to be position and that hospital starts to come under fire at the end of the day as night falls so at the start of the day you've the prospect of all these battalions on the offensive taking the decision to the enemy trying to change the course of the battle. And by the end of the day, people are very much bottled in and the next phase will come.

And you think of Roy Urquhart's day from the attic, escaping the attic, getting back, realising a load of decisions are being made, having to back them or unpick them, realising disasters unfolding in the town, realising disasters unfolding in the wood, watching the supply flight come in and the disaster of that. He has to go out onto the lawn of the Hartstein and remonstrate with men who are running away.

And then by the end of the day, knowing that basically there's some guys left at the bridge, but that's it. I can't imagine. I mean, I have great sympathy for him. He makes a terrible decision, but I have great sympathy for him because literally everything, everything that possibly can go wrong does go wrong.

And he's responsible. It's awful. And so by the end of your day, the Brits are in a defensive crouch with the Germans already probing on all sides. There is this other little pocket of Brits there at the north end of the bridge. How long have they got, Al?

They're running low on ammunition. Their fate is sealed by the failure to relieve them. Yes. There's a schwer Panzerbataillon turns up, heavy Panzerbataillon. German Tiger tanks turn up that evening at about seven o'clock and are able to literally drive right up to the buildings and shell them that the men are hiding in. Some of the men express relief that at least the Germans are using armour piercing rounds, so they're going straight through the houses rather than blowing them up, right? I i mean these guys can find a bright side in everything but they are being reduced the houses are being burned out the cellars are

filling up with wounded there's the rmo the captain jimmy logan's a glaswegian doctor who's in there like tirelessly looking after the men but they're running out of ammo they've run out of water they've run out of food. It's really, really bad, but they are still hanging on and the Germans can't get across the bridge unmolested, so to speak. But the arrival of the heavy tanks at the end of the day, bad news. Bad news. And how far south is the cavalry? Well, the cavalry, guards armoured, they've made it to Nijmegen. They haven't got across the wall yet. There'll be the extraordinary river crossing the next day by men from 82nd Airborne with the guards going across Nijmegen Bridge with, you know, famously Lord Carrington in the first tank,

the man that becomes Lord Carrington. And there are still people at Arnhem Bridge. I mean, fighting, you know, there are parties winkled out very early on the Thursday morning. Parties of lads with fighting knives still hanging on in there fighting the Germans. But basically, there's a moment of guards armoured north of the river at Nijmegen and elements of the British still holding the bridge. But by the Wednesday, unfortunately, it ain't enough. It's 20 kilometres or so, but it's just as a day as a long time in war, 20 kilometres can be a very long way as well. Well, exactly. And also what you've got is that the Germans are threatening

the very other end of the perimeter down near Son and Eindhoven and at one point cut the corridor. So 2nd Army, 30 Corps have got all sorts of problems as well, let alone getting to Arnhem. But, I mean, the end of the day, this is the faintest glimmer. If only they were over there. It would make life very difficult for the Germans, the British still holding the bridge at the end of the day, there's the faintest glimmer. If only they were over there. It would make life very difficult for the Germans, the British still holding the bridge at the end of the day on the Tuesday

if Second Army had got across the bridge at Nijmegen, but they don't, so they can't. So sorry to bum everyone out. So at the end of the day, the writing is on the wall. There will be no victory at Arnhem. Montgomery's plan to get across the great Rhine River system would have failed. And yet a lot of men over the next few days on both sides are still going to die horrific deaths fighting at very, very close quarters. Yeah, yeah. And the stand

that follows is utterly remarkable and sort of all the more remarkable for how bad things are on this one day i think um al murray what a pleasure to have you back on the podcast dude tell everyone what it's called it is called arnhem black tuesday uh black tuesday one day i'm gonna go through and make a list of how many black insert days there are in british military history because there's quite a few of them um But there's no shortage. No shortage, no shortage. But you know what?

It's what you do the next day that counts. Okay, Al Murray, thank you so much. You're an absolute legend coming on the podcast. So good to have you on. My pleasure. Thanks very much, Dan. Thank you. you