Dan Snow's History Hit - The Black Prince

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

He was one of medieval England’s most formidable warriors. Today we hear how Edward of Woodstock - the Black Prince - earned that reputation, tracing his rise during the Hundred Years’ War and exploring the nature of his command. We also confront the harsher realities of his campaigns, from brutal sieges to civilian suffering. Was he a hero, or something darker?Joining us is Michael Jones, historian and author of "The Black Prince: England's Greatest Medieval Warrior".Produced by James Hickmann and edited by Dougal Patmore.You can also email the podcast directly at [e-mail] need your help! Let us know what you want from Dan Snow's History Hit by filling in our anonymous survey here: https://forms.gle/PvgayWLkWGjYT4St6 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up to join us in historic locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit history hit.com slash subscribe. The teenage prince was leading the vanguard. It was a position of honour and a position of danger. His father wanted his son blooded. He wanted his son to win his spurs, to emerge from his shadow, a leader in his own right.

And that is exactly what the young prince did that day. August 26, 1346, at that battle of Cressy, Prince Edward of England, Well, he came within a hair's breadth of being hacked to death, but it's in those margins that legends are made. Henry V only just survived taking an arrow to the face when he was a lad. Alexander the Great came millimetres from having his skull split in two at the launch of his invasion of Asia. Napoleon took a bayonet in the thigh in his first battle. And so it was with Prince Edward on that battlefield.

Cressy was the first major clash of the Hundred Years' War, and after that battle overnight, Edward became one of Europe's most admired warrior princes. You're listening to Down Snow's history, and we are talking all things Edward the Black Prince on this podcast. He's the eldest son of Edward III, one of the most celebrated military leaders of the Middle Ages. His part in the victories at Cressy and Poitiers during the Hundred Years' War made him a national hero, a figure of fascination across Europe at the time, and through subsequent centuries, because he also embodied the sort of ideals of chivalry and knightly honour, all the while, obviously, such as the contradiction of these things,

he commanded campaigns marked by devastation and cruelty. As you'll hear, he lived at a time of shifting fortunes. I'll tell you, that wheel of fortune was spinning in that period. There was war with Scotland, there was war with France. There was the devastation of the black death. His life and his early death left a legacy that shaped, England and France. We're going to look at his rise, we can live his triumphs, the contradictions of the black prince, the man behind the myth, we're going to look at his tragic early death.

We're going to talk about the prince that might have been a truly great king. The other day, I was exploring Canterbury Cathedral in Kent. We were filming for a history hit documentary. Make sure you go and subscribe. And I found Edward the Black Prince's tomb. He chose to be buried in that great cathedral of Englishness. And there's the most extraordinary inscription on that tomb. His effigy, him in his armour, corrects down to the rivets. There's an inscription on that tomb which is very, very arresting. It's haunting. Such as thou art, so once was I. Such as I am, such shalt thou be. I little thought on the hour of death so long as I enjoyed breath. Great riches here did I possess. I had gold, silver,

Wardrobe's great treasure, horses, houses, land. But now a poor cative, I am, meaning a sort of miserable wretch. Deep in the ground, low, here I lie. My great beauty is all quite gone. My flesh is wasted to the bone. Something to think about there. It's the fate that awaits us all. Here's Dr. Michael Jones, brilliant historian and broadcaster, to talk us all three.

He's written a book called The Black Prince. Make sure you go and check it out. Enjoy. Michael, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Big pleasure, Dan. The Plantagenet's a one turbulent family, but actually the Black Prince when he was born, he was born into a family that was feeling reasonably settled

and sort of together without members of each, various branches, killing each other. I mean, it was a pretty good time to be born as a Plantagenet Prince. Well, as a baby, he was in a turbulent time because his birth was actually the catalyst for Edward III, his father and his mother, Philip Ruf Eno, he was the catalyst for Edward sorting things out and creating what would be a very stable family. Because when the prince was born, young Edward was a puppet really being manipulated by a shadowy regime of his mother,

Isabella, and her lover, Roger Mortimer. Oh yes, that's true. So he's still being dominated by his mum. He's being dominated by his mum and having his own son galvanise the 18-year-old Edward III. Okay. So I'm actually got my dates wrong. So actually he was born into a bit of dynastic turbulent. So yes. His mum had invaded England and deposed his dad with her lover by her side. They were ruling as sort of what regents? Un officially, yes. They were using Edward as a puppet in effect. And the big question was, would Edward form a group of supporters and take matters into his own hands? My own belief is the birth of his son galvanized him to do just that. And within a matter of months, he burst into where Isabella and Mortimer was staying,

arrested Mortimer, sent his mum into exile, and Mortimer was tried and executed. So within a few months, it had all changed for the better. Cricky. So yeah, becoming a dad brought about a very real change in his circumstances. Huge. That's the beginning of Edward III. So Edward III goes on to become arguably England's greatest medieval king rules for a long time. And so the Black Prince, I'll change what I said earlier. He certainly grows up. He experiences his formative years in a stable family environment, strong, youngish father at the peak of his powers, ending pretty peaceful. Yeah, up to a point. One of the...

the big issues in the early path of the anna is the war with Scotland. The young prince would have certainly been hearing about that. Philippa of Eno, his mom, liked to travel and like to support her husband. And certainly, even as a very young child, the black prince would have been brought up near the frontier to stay in a nursery, would have heard stories about it all. But this war with Scotland, the French were supporting the Scots. So I think, yes, there was an element of stability, but war was ever present, and it starts with Scotland and moves on to France. Yes, I guess peace in medieval Western Europe is a sort of relative concept. A relative concept, yes, well put. And so Edward III doesn't undo the damage done by his father, Ebert II, but how would you define

the end of that war with Scotland, just quickly before we get into the Black Prince's life? if they fix, roughly speaking, a border that is still the border today, interestingly? Well, that war will still go on after the war with France opens, and fortunately, they're two big victories in the same year. I mean, we're jumping ahead, but the thing that knocks Scotland out is that an invading army is defeated and the King of Scotland is captured in 1346, and after that it's quiet.

But why I say this is that Edward undertaken, a high-risk strategy. Some of his advisors were saying exactly what you were saying. Don't even think about France, mate, until you've formed some kind of stability, some kind of peace with Scotland. Edward does something rather similar to Henry V. He just goes for it. So high-risk, high-stakes. Exciting because it's very proactive, but risky. And that is the start of what we might all recognize the 100 years war. But let's quickly come back to the Black Prince. So he's no stranger to the military camp. He's traveling around with his dad. He must have been impressed with his dad. I mean, there was this sort of martial revival going on. I mean, it felt like England and the English, the Plantagenet family were back after a very, very rough. Massively so. He's being trained up for war from an early age from about the age of seven. He's learning on the job. He's got his own miniature tent. He's got his own weapons. Now, this is seven years old. When his father then goes abroad, he puts the prince at the head of governing council. Now, he's not expecting

the prince to take control, but he's surrounded by proper advisors. But he's expecting, at a very young age, his son to learn on the job. And very movingly, in 1340, when the king fights a big naval battle and wins at sluice. Young Edward goes up to say goodbye to him as she boards the ship and says farewell and then sends out a stream of messengers. How's my dad doing? Any news? So absolutely, this was a very powerful time. And I think the young prince was really in awe of his father, quite rightly so. I've always been a big fan of Ebba III for many reasons. And one of them is he does himself lead naval forces aboard the heaving deck of a ship. Yeah, love it.

Which, frankly, many of his descendants should have learned from because they were missing in action half the time. Well, Sleuss, we could do a whole podcast about that fascinating naval battle that sort of establishes English control of the channel, really, supremacy of the channel, which means it's going to be largely one-way traffic during the 100-year-s war that's to come. So from what you're saying, Michael, we hear all sorts of different things about medieval childhood. They're pretty close, are they? They're physically, geographically, close.

They are emotionally close, these two, father and son. Well, they're not always physically close. Dad, in the period of childhood and adolescence, is frequently away in France. I mean, part of this is notional. When you have letters back home, they're also sort of public announcement. So it's kind of Edward III writes to his son. It's also going to be circulated. So everyone gets in on the act.

But nevertheless, the letters from Edward III to his son are moving. I think they show a strong relationship. And in a sense, those frequent absences do make the heart grow fonder because it's the aspiration, it's the shared aspiration that's very powerful. And it's being hinted at, or more than hinted out from a very early age. I'm setting this up so that you can join in. And together we can really put England. back on the European map.

And it's interesting that point, because unlike so many other sort of heir appearance, the Black Prince is the oldest son, he survives to adulthood. Well, it looks like that's right until the end. There's going to be quite a clear father to oldest son's sort of transition, which is quite unusual, given the fate of Henry the Young King or many other medieval monarchs. Yeah, I mean, he's the oldest of five boys. Perhaps briefly, I should say at this stage, he's never known as the Black Prince

during his lifetime. He's known as Edward of Woodstock from the palace where he was born. That nickname comes later in the 16th century. But yes, the power of this is that Edward has a lot of sons. They all behave themselves. And the oldest, Edward of Woodstock, who will call the Black Friends, because that's how he's known, he's being groomed for power from the beginning. So there is stability and real closeness and a sense of,

shared identity, although without wanting to do a spoiler alert, later on, it's going to go a bit wrong. But in the early stages, early to a middle stage, it's the dynamic duo. Well, listen, Michael, of course it goes wrong. This is the Plantagenet family you're talking about here. Come on. We all know what we're going to get. Just before the Battle of Sluwis, really, let's just go back slightly. Edward III has embarked on what people roughly call the 100 years war. It goes on for longer 100 years. Very, very briefly, Edward is asserting his right to be king of France after the catastrophe that overtakes France's ruling family. Part of this is saying England's back, that we're back. His son would have been excited by this, young Edward.

I mean, this was his throne in the future too. Totally. It is very exciting. Of course, we need to remember that Edward is making his claim through his mother, who he is pushed into exile, but nevertheless he's making a claim from her. That claim originally existed from 1328 when the succession dispute in France was opened. The interesting thing is it's left on one side. And the fact that Edward chooses to kind of activate it in 1337 is because he's basically tired of being bossed around by the French, both in Gascany, where he has to render homage and also French interference in Scotland. So he takes the initiative. And for someone like the Black Prince, that would have been pretty exciting. And absolutely, he's going to be a big part of

the story. And the fact that Edward does have such a healthy, lusty young son, in stunning contrast to the Capetians in France, that must have given him a spring in his step. In fact, he's got all these sons. It's looking fecund on this side of the channel. I like it. And of course, that's how medieval people saw things, that if you were young and lusty from a fecun point of view, you're also up for the fight. So there is a sense of dynamism and optimism here around the whole developing family that's Edward the third and his wife are creating. Before the Black Prince hits the battlefield itself, can you tell me quickly about the creating him the Duke of Cornwall? People might have heard the Duchy of Cornwall,

which remains a sort of royal, a large private estate, as I understand it, of the heir to throne here in Britain. That's established for the Black Prince, isn't it? Yeah, he's the first Duke of Cornwall. He's also made Earl of Chester. He's got three sources of income, Cornwall, Cheshire, and then he's made Prince of Wales. The important thing to emphasize here is the Duchy of Cornwall created for him is not just in Cornwall, but also includes lands and residences all over the country. So his main residence at Berkhamsted, his palace at Kennington, as well as a favourite Cornish residence of his Restormwell. They're all part of a big affinity And Cheshire is also important because it's independent.

It's a county palatine. It has its own parliamentary assembly. And Cheshiremen are notoriously rough and tough, rather like the Gaskins, who the Prince will get to know later on. So with Cornwall, with Cheshire, we're seeing areas of revenue, but we're also seeing areas that the Prince will retain from when he starts fighting and exercising independent command in his own right. So first Duke, yes, and it's a big deal.

Okay, so let's get on the way in the 1340s whilst still a teenager. His father makes him a member of the Order of the Garter, which is the famous chivalric order that exists again to this day. So lots of interesting sort of heraldic things going on with cast a long shadow. When does the Black Prince, when do you think he first experiences the battlefield? Well, it's a very powerful initiation. and it's the Battle of Cressy in 1346. The prince is 16 years old. On the campaign that leads up to the battle,

he's given the honour position in the army, commanding the vanguard. And once again, he has experienced advisors all around him, but he's leading from the front. And at the battle is a double-edged compliment and welcome to tough love, Plantagenet style,

because Edward III gives us, the son the honor position, and I'm not quite sure, Dan, how much he told him of the full plan, but he's also making his son and the vanguard a target. If we look at the topography of the battle, Edwards scouted out this site in advance, and he knows that French cavalry is going to come up towards the English army. There is an agricultural ditch, so they'll be funneled into an area where the prince's division is, they'll see his banner, they'll go for him. And Edward knows that by making his son a target, he has the possibility of getting a huge tactical advantage, but there's also a considerable element of risk.

And we know famously that the prince's concussed, probably falls down and then picks himself up his standard bearer, which is the person holding the standard. is a couple of feet away, is knocked over, the French get the standards. So the French are broken in through the main line, into the prince's bodyguard, and the prince himself is close to being killed. And a breathless messenger comes to Edward III and says, quick, do something, or you'll lose your son. And according to Jean Frasor, the king just says,

let him win his spurs. Well, that would send us to a therapist for 20 years, wouldn't it? But what I love is, after making this great soundbite, the kingdom kind of things, what have I done? And according to another source, he then quietly said, look, send 40 my best nights to support my son. So tough love, but also a loving father, I think it's a great moment. And the prince does hang on there. He does survive. And it's an extraordinary initiation into combat that wins him, his spurs and wins him fame all across Europe.

I never realised that before, Michael. So one of the greatest sayings of English medieval history. So Edward III did well there. He got this reputation for being the ultimate tough love dad, letting his boy win his father. But also he did quietly send off a hit squad to a SWAT team to make sure his son did in fact make it through. How interesting.

Yeah, I love that. Well, there you go. Never trust a medieval king. Cressie, obviously, famous as well. The French knights launch wave after wave of assaults. they are destroyed by the English and Welsh longbows. It becomes one of these grossly unequal battles at the Hundred Years War. Well, the English liked to remember during the Hundred Years War.

There are a few the other way around as well, which we don't remember. And so hugely not only a significant for the Black Prince, but significant for the course of the war up to that point? Massively, so this deployment of the Longbow, within the battle line, previously the missile-bearing troops kind of came out of beginning then got out of the way, took years to perfect, because the longbow is a deadly weapon, but also the bowman would be lightly armored. So if there are a series of cavalry attacks, if you're not coordinating it properly, the French will take a hit. They'll take casualties,

but they'll punch through the line when the bowmen are. So it required a lot of practice, but a formation was found that worked, and it led to a devastating advantage. I think there are a whole host of factors here, decisive generalship, because the French king had the misfortune to see the battle starting before he'd even got to where the army was. There was a huge traffic jam, a gridlock. Don't we know about these roadworks? Well, the French king found out that the counter Alonsohn's was preparing to start the battle without him and just basically said, okay, go ahead. So we have measured strong leadership on the English side, a lot of tactical awareness and of course this new disposition using the power of the longboat. And on the French side,

it's chaotic adrenaline-fueled rushing into action. So it's a huge, devastating defeat for France. There's a dance note history. There's more on this topic coming up. The flower of French nobility, I feel like I've said this many times on the podcast, but there must be lots of flowers of French nobility because it's always said that they are lying dead on the field of Cressy, the king lucky to escape, the king of Bohemia, the blind to King of Bohemia dead as well. Yeah, a big influence on the Black Prince. And this was because, again, we're entering the strange world of chivalry,

this parallel universe where the King of Bohemia, our great personal friend of the French king, losing sight in both his eyes. He says to his retinue that he wants to basically die fighting. And they tether their horses together. They don't abandon him and say, get on with it, you're a little fool. But they all die together. when the prince not only witnesses the body of the blanking of Bohemia, Jean Luxembourg,

but also sees those horses tethered together. He's deeply moved because in a way that is the embodiment of chivalry and a famous comment that was made to Simon De Montfort when he, before the Battle of Eichan, he said to one of his companions, look, the bridge is open, you can get out of here. There'll be no dishonor. And the companion simply said, no, Simon. we have drunk from the same cup. And this is the abiding sense of loyalty that chivalry could create. And the prince decided to emulate. So he adopts the ostrich feather.

One sees that on his tomb in Canterbury, which was the king of Bohemian's own emblem as a reminder of that principle. And remains the emblem of the Prince of Wales to this day? To this very day. And that's where it comes from. Pretty splendid stuff. Splendid stuff.

The English go on to take Calais as a result of the battle, it's a pretty brutal siege, but a hugely important fortress on the Channel Coast. Yeah, something I'd like to say, because when the prince is nearly killed at Cressy, that's fairly well-known. But what isn't well-known, the prince very nearly dies during the siege, he contracts the serious illness. Partway through the siege, he's in a hospital that's patrons of the Count of Flanders and they're allies.

but he's in a hospital and his father has left the siege as well because it looks very bad. Prognosis looks very bad. But the prince is nursed back to health and then returns to the siege. And these two events so close together, it's very, very interesting. The prince himself believed that he was being protected by God in battle, that he had divine protection. This wasn't formulaic. He deeply believed that. And Archbishop John Stratford, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who knew.

knew the prince well. In his will the following year at the time the Order of God was being created, you know, he left silver spoons to Sancerer. The gift he leaves to the Black Prince is the silver resurrection scene. In other words, he knows that the prince believes that he is destined, protected by God, to step out and do great things. Yes, always first warning signs is when you start to believe you're an agent of Providence. Very much so. This is going to be the triumph and tragedy theme. I tell you, if I was a medieval king, I wouldn't let my children anywhere near the siege. The siege trenches.

They're clearly just feces-filled plague pits. Think about the number of people that died in those miserable sieges. Well, indeed. And we've got the Black Death about to hit our story as well. Yes, we do. In fact, we've got the Black Death the following year hits the story. On that, Edward III lost a daughter, I think. Didn't he?

We say the Black Death was no respecter of a state. or surname. On the whole, did the royal family, did senior aristocrats have a bit of a better chance of surviving access to safer food and cleaner water and were they doing a bit of social distancing? I mean, how did the Black Prince make it through the horror that the 50% mortality of the Black Death?

Yeah, he lost a sister that he was very close to. She was actually sent off to marry. A man we're going to hear more about, and this was the son and heir of the King of Castile. She didn't make it because the ship stopped off at Bordeaux. The mayor warned them that a terrible plague was already afflicting the city. It hadn't arrived in England yet. They didn't heed that warning, and that was their big mistake.

And so the whole contingent died in pretty horrific fashion. When the plague did reach England, there were attempts at social distancing and regulation. and more members of the royal family died, the prince lost a young brother, William. And the plague, of course, would come back. But the thing I like is that it was in desperate circumstances and sort of keep calm and carry on. There's that Christmas gambling session where the prince,

while this plague is raging all around them. And of course, they will found the order of the garter, both of them together in the middle of the plague, which is extraordinary, because the power of this chivalrous order is that it's intercessionary prayer because a lot of people are going to die and not be able to confess their sins to a priest. So what battlefield soldiers and plague victims have in common is this fear of not just dying horribly,

but then being stuck after your death in purgatory where you're tormented by demons and prodded with great iron tongs. So they take this very seriously. and the creation of the Order of the Garter is a sign of that. But also, the prince lost $104 quid in one evening gambling with his dad. So I think there was a kind of live today, die tomorrow aspect as well going on. So it's a mixture of studded nonchalance and also deep awareness of how terrible this was. So we'll be saying it's sort of luck they survive, or did they say, right, no one come near me for two weeks?

Well, the Pope practiced a form of social distancing, which was quite extraordinary. He had two huge fires lit on either side of the papal throne in Avignon. Up to a point, I mean, the plague was rampaging everywhere. And medical ideas were way behind the reality. So, yes, I think there would be a sense of providence, but of course, the plague would keep coming back. and the prince would lose people close to him, friends, counselors, in the next bout of plague in 1360 and then again in 1369. But yes, an aspect of this kind of reinforcing the idea of divine providence

is being spared from the plague might add to that spiritual identity, or we could say megalomania if we're being a bit more unkinded. Oh, I see. That's good point. So he's had a couple of near misses now. He must be feeling pretty... Yeah, he has. Okay, worrying. Take me back to France.

A hundred years more is famously start-stop, but he is prominent in several more sort of chapters of it, isn't he? Yeah, he gets his own independent command in 1355. He goes to his dad straight away and special pleading. And interestingly, Edward III hesitates for a while. He thinks, hmm, but then agrees. So the prince gets his own command as lieutenant in Gaskinian leads to absolutely, the brutal raid across the south of France, effectively from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean,

burning and pillaging. At Carcasson, he occupies the merchant section of the town, the richest section of the town. They offer him a lot of money not to burn it, but he's out to please his father. And by not getting the money, but by burning it, he's showing the whole of France that the king of France, that's John the 2nd, and his lieutenant, the counter Armagnac, can't protect their own people. If you're fighting to say, well, actually, my claim's better, you're going around being absolutely brutal because by damaging the agrarian economy, you're impeding the revenue connection, so the war effort is damaged. And you're also saying, look, our claim is better because your guys can't look after you.

So it's shrewd stuff, although very, very brutal. and the following year is the big one. There's a big plan to converge on the French king, Jean the second. Edward III will take an army to Calais. Another major noble, Maheneo Grossman, will come in from Brittany, and the black prince will come up from Gascony. But this great plan goes totally pear-shaped. So the prince marches to the centre of France, to the Loire,

and finds that no one else is there. Ah, yes. The old multi-prong attack, when you find out you're the only pronged, How many times in military history have we seen that, poor things? You're so right. Not good. And the interesting thing is that Edward III has decided he's not going to go to Calais, but that information has not reached his son. Henry of Grossman, who is in Brittany, can't get across to Loire, there's bad flooding.

And sadly, the French who have been very apathetic and not very keen on Jean II, who's been dealing with insurrection in Normandy, but suddenly the thought of wiping out the black prince galvanises, everybody and there's a total change of mood and a big army is gathered with the sole purpose of crushing the black prince so it's getting worse and worse and just outside prattier in september 1356 as you say at this stage that the prince's army we often describe it as an english army it's anglo-gascon and the gascons are a very important part of his army and gascony is southwest france yes it's southwest France, and they're tough, they're independently minded, and they like the Prince.

So he's got a strong army, but it's badly outnumbered. And famously, because the Prince gets the tactics right, the French decides him, use cavalry on the flanks, but fight on foot, they are fine-tuning their approach. But the first part of the battle goes very well, but the army, Prince's army, is absolutely knackard, and then they see this whole new division appearing of fresh troops. someone, a bit like Cousin Westmoreland, famously supposed to have said, oh my God, more troops. Someone does say the same thing. It's all looking very bad, but the prince, it's an extraordinary moment, calm in the eye at the storm, he prays out loud. And suddenly there's a flash of

inspiration. They devise a totally crazy, spontaneous plan where they sent a small force of mounted troops around to attack from the rear. And then the whole army. Normally, the English dismount and the French attack them with cavalry. And this time, the French are coming up on foot. And the order is given for the entire army, including bowmen, to mount up and charge straight to the French king. It's absolutely crazy.

It's basically putting your entire fortune on one spin of the wheel at Vegas. But I think the mood of the army, suddenly people get that this is going to be the last chance saloon and everyone is up for it. So this small force comes in at the rear. And then the cavalry attack hits the French line with such force that Jean the 2nd, the King of France and this bodyguard, and not clean out of the battle line into an adjacent meadow. And even then, the English adrenaline-fueled as they are outnumbered by about 10 to 1. But the French are in the state of shock. So it's the most extraordinary victory. And I don't think much much as military historians love studying weapons and tactical analysis and this, that and the other.

I think this battle is outside the comfort zone, really. And of course, once again, it fuels this idea from the prince that divine protection wins in the battle. It is an astonishing underdog victory. He's in the heart of it. Yeah, and we capture the French king as well. That's the big one. Well, indeed. King John, he was taken to London, wasn't he? I always thought he actually seemed to prefer being in London to Paris. He's always won my sympathies for that reason. Well, yeah, he doesn't get on very well with his own ability. And when he's in London, he can be the kind of martyred hero with everyone actually saying, he wasn't so bad. Yeah, just he's got his feet up in London. But we should say the Black Prince is absolutely at the

heart. He's fighting in the front line. He's leading by example. I mean, he's the picture of a martial medieval prince. And we talked about his massive raid, burning, destructive. destroying crops, torching things, brutality, sexual assault. Now we're talking about this battle. Is he any different from his forebears, you know, from his different cousin several times, Richard the Lionheart or Henry II or his father, Edward the Third? Is there something, I mean, I remember when my dad was reading me kind of outdated 19th century history books. The Black Prince was sort of, it seemed to occupy quite a special place in that Victorian historical imagination. Was he better, different, more pious? How should we kind of evaluate

him as a, now that he's in his 20s as a warrior, as a leader, as a man. Yeah, good question. I think in some respects, he's very much a man and a warrior of his times. And these brutal raids, it's how his father was conducting, fighting both with the Scots and also in the early stages of 100 years war. People were pious in the Middle Ages, but the Black Princess Party was very deep. And what tends to get lost, I think, the first thing that tends to get lost, is that he had a very mischievous sense of humour. He was very charismatic and very winning. And one can find this in some chronicle sources,

particularly more obscure French chronicle sources, how mischievously humorous he was. And that is a very engaging quality. And I'll give you one example. So when he's leading this big expedition, his first independent command, and the Welshmen are coming in, the Cheshman, the mercenaries are joining from all over Europe.

And the prince likes his bling. You know, he likes to show off strutted stuff. And some of the soldiers are saying, who's this fop? They're sort of wondering about it. And the prince gets to hear about this. And he draws his entire army up. And then the great ceremony knights his personal tailor. And so he can take the piss out of himself.

And the army love it. He taggly turns it around by doing that. And this is where he is very winning. He understands chivalry. but at the same time this mischievous humour really is an icebreaker and forges some very powerful loyalties. So he's a real personality. Is he worse?

Can we say that he was sort of more violent and cruel? He's obviously got a cheeky side, but in these chev-o-shei, is there something particularly ferocious about them, or is it just pretty standard fare for the time? Well, the biggest plot on his escutcheon, if I can use that phrase, as we're going to get onto later on, the sack of Limoge in 1370. And I argue very strongly in my book, my biography of the Black Prince,

that that really didn't happen. And if that particular episode is reviewed, it back projects onto the whole of his career, which I think comes across in a much more favourable light. You listen to Dan Snow's history. Don't go anywhere. There's more to come. Just quickly, can ask another question that it's often said that England had never any chance

in a hundred years or it's a complete bonkers idea that England could conquer France, much richer and more populous. But if you've been there at the end of the Battle of Poitiers, King John of France is a captive of the English, the French are at each other's throats, do you think Edward III thought at that point? I think I might just pull this off, or was it always we're just going to go on raiding and attacking France?

I don't actually genuinely think I'm going to be crowned in a Rass Cathedral. I'm not going to be given the holy ointment of Clovis or whatever it is. where are we now, do you think, after this battle? Well, there's another big campaign in 1359 to 60, and that is very much in Edward's mind. He's thinking about that because they do head to rounds. What happens is a compromise where by the peace treaty of Bretini in 1360, and this is very interesting,

Edward III renounces his claim in return for getting acitaine, that's a very enlarged Gascony in full social. So that's the best. We won't do better than that in the 14th century. So that is a win. And the prince becomes outright ruler of Accutane. He doesn't have to bend the knee and do homage. And that was extraordinary. But the problem was that it wouldn't last. But while it did last, it looked very good indeed. Things went wrong when we intervened in Spain to support Pedro the Cruel, who was, as his name suggests, a total psychopath. And the prince was very reluctant to do this, and was kind of pushed into it by his father. Edward III saw the strategic advantage

of allying with Castile. The prince was aware, however, that this guy he was helping have been excommunicated twice, probably murdered his wife, murdered his half-brother during a banquet and then left a corpse on the floor. And his last act before he showed up at Bordeaux to plead for help from the prince was to stab to death the Archbishop of Santiago de Compostela, one of the sacred pilgrimage sites on consecrated ground. So I don't think the prince was very excited. And although he wins this battle at Mejera, it all goes wrong because the counterclaim it escapes. gets back on the throne and now Castile is an enemy and the French become confident enough to resume the war. So I think for a brief period it was a win in that through military prowess

we got a very advantage of settlement. It's just we weren't able to keep it. Yeah, how interesting. So he's, the Black Prince is sort of ruling in South of France almost in his own right. And he crossed the Pyrenees and expends all that blood and treasure like Napoleon Bonaparte. his own Spanish ulcer as well. Yep, absolutely. And now we've got the French emboldened by that weakness, and the Hundred Years' War effectively restarts. Yes, and the prince, I argue,

is not supported fully by his father. His father is more concerned about Calais and the north of France. But crucially, the prince also becomes ill, not, I believe, through dysentery, although some of the soldiers in his army succumbed to dysentery in Spain, but by the autumn of 1368, the prince becomes ill. It's a long illness. My own belief is that it's rectal cancer,

so he has periods of extreme weakness where he stretch abound, and then he makes a partial recovery. It's very interesting that the behavior of some Gasco nobles is almost like a kind of health check, because when the prince is very ill, they're saying to the Valois king, Charles V. Actually, I think I'll join you. you know, maybe pay me a bit of money.

Then they hear the prince is recovering and they say, actually just hold on a moment. So it's so much still his personality, but he is waning in terms of health. And the military position, Charles V has built up a good financial reserve, something a prince was not very good at. As you said, he spent a lot of money going over to Spain and coming back again. The position starts hemorrhaging and there are a lot of defections.

and that will get us on to Limoges. Also, every the third is going to knock on a bit in the north, isn't he? He has a reasonably long decline. Sadly, yes. We've got a decline of King for one reason and a decline of his son also. Such an important reminder of the centrality in this period of leadership, of the vital, vigorous leadership. Totally. And that's waning. Oh, dear, oh dear.

Right. So let's get to Limoges. Tell me what leads up to this famous siege. Well, Limoges is a city that has been loyal to the prince. And then Jean Frassard, our great source for the 14th century phase of the 100 years world, goes to town. And Frassar's agenda is that he's met the prince. And we should add at this point that he's also met the prince's very beautiful wife, Joan of Kent. The prince marries for love. And so by 1360, he's not only a war hero, but he's not only a war hero, but he's also.

then seeing the beautiful Joan, formerly married the following year. And there are a power couple. They have a magnificent court. But Frasar starts building up this picture then as a fallen hero, that the prince gets corrupted by his own incredible reputation. And Limoges is where Frasup starts really nailing this in. So according to Frasat, the prince is waning in. and furious that this town has defected, so decides to make an example of them. And there's a

short siege and then a massacre of several thousand innocent French civilians as a terrible example. And if we buy that as true, it is very much a flaw. I mean, you can justify it. You can say that if you break your oath, you're exempted from the normal laws of war, but it's a nasty incident. But I argue very strongly it didn't happen like that at all because going back to what I've been saying about divine protection, the prince after the Spanish expedition. So why am I ill? Why is the war going wrong? Because I have sinned, we have sinned in supporting this murderous psychopath, Pedro the Cruel. And now we've lost God's favor. So everything is about trying to win that favor back. And the prince actually negotiates for clemency to be shown towards towns or

cities that through that they aren't being backed militarily, they think of going over to the French. But I argue that it's a slur, propaganda slur. And I think the one point I would make here is that when the prince does die in 1376 a year before his father, the French sold a solemn memorial mass fame. They hold a requiem mass. It's never done for anyone else on the English side. And Valois chronicler says, you may think this is very strange that we're doing this for a mortal enemy, but he represented something far greater. The aspiration, the model of knighthood that we all aspire to. Well, if he'd just murdered thousands of innocent civilians, I don't think that was going to happen. So I've argued very strongly that we need to see the prince in a different light.

So just quickly on Limoges, the town surrenders to the French. He retakes it, his miners demolish a large piece of wall and the town is then stormed. Are we arguing that that's unfortunately what happens when towns are stormed? And it wasn't a case of particular exemplary violence that he's been charged with in the past. Well, I used quite a lot of new documentary material. So Limoges was divided up into two parts, the city, which was a poor of. part controlled by the bishop and the chateau which was the richer merchant quarters the chateau part had always stared lower to the prince the city had been told by the bishop who was a slippery character

that the prince has actually died and when the prince showed up although his army was actually being commanded by his brother john of gorens they opened the gates they did a deal with the english and raised the banner as the signal and then open the gates. There was a mining attack to divert the French garrison, and then the gates were opened, and what actually happened I've reconstructed is that it was the French that massacred the people who had done that. So it was totally different.

And the commander, who had performed extremely well, according to all the chronicles, was dismissed by Charles V. All his lands were taken away from him, and he died in poverty. So my argument and my perception of that siege is very different. Well, listen, I'm here for blaming the French for Limo, so you've convinced me. Thank you so much. Chapter and verse.

That's what I want to hear, Dan. Although it's such an interesting period of the 1370s, isn't it? Because, well, we have the siege is 1370, then we get the very unusual, folks. We have an English naval defeat off La Rochelle. Catastrophic, yeah. Which makes communications for England and Aquitaine harder. And then we have this print.

The Black Prince's oldest son dies. He's dying. His father is dying all at the same time, all in this four or five year period. It's just grim. And often people don't realize this. He had two sons, and the older, Edward of Ongolem,

dies in 1370, I suspect, of plague as well. Of course, leaving the younger one, Richard of Bordeaux, who will become a very unsuccessful king, Richard the second. Absolute chump. Absolutely. But yes, everyone is waning this terrible naval defeat is because we backed the wrong side in the Castilian Civil War. Sir Enrique, who chucks Pedro, the psychopathic ruler off the throne.

He is at our throats with a vengeance, and so French and Castilian fleet hammers us outside La Rochelle. The prince wants to join but is too sick. The king wants to join but isn't up for it. It's all going terribly wrong, down. Well, this Spanish intervention is just poisons the entire... Poisons it, totally. Crazy. So the young prince, Edward III's grandson, Edward the Black Prince's son dies in 1370. And then the Black Prince returns to England in 1371. And is he coming back to die? I mean, is this... Well, the thing is he, again, he has these periods where he's terribly ill and everyone's expecting him to die and then he rallies and so it goes on. But he joins the lay fraternity connected to St. Orban's where the avid of St. Orban's had also suffered serious

illness and recurrent illness, but he's almost kind of on standby to die, but hangs on in there. and he manages to last right through to the time of the good parliament in 1376, and then he finally fades. And there's tension at this stage between father and son, because his father had kept a court appeal court open in Westminster, that it undermined the prince in Akitaine. And the prince had become very fed up with this to the extent that when his father tried to form an alliance with another one of these,

characters. You've got Pedro the Cruel, total psychopath, and Charles the bad, who's nearly as bad as Pedro the Cruel. And the prince is very unhappy that he had to associate with either of them. And he basically says to his father, I'm not going to authenticate this agreement. He had to authenticate it, because some of the lands involved were his. And he actually tells his father, I'm tired of doing things that compromise my honor. So I think it was a rather frosty period between father and son. Of course, Edward III was running after this attractive young, originally a lady in waiting of his wife, Alice Perez, and making rather an idiot of himself. And the prince genuinely believed Alice Perez had put him under a spell.

Witchcraft was the reason his father had just changed for the worth. But whatever one makes of that, it's all gone terribly wrong. Right at the end, very movingly, Edward III says, look, the black prince was at this palace of Kennington, he says, come to Westminster so I can nurse you personally. Prince agrees as a reconciliation and crucially, the king pays off the prince's debts, which was rather important because the prince was always running shorter money. But right at the end they make up, which I like because it went wrong, but it was fundamentally a very positive relationship. But of course, the king himself will die a year later leaving the young Richard the second to stumble around.

Just alienating everybody. Unfortunately, yes. Yeah, the military genes all went through John Agaunt to that Henry IV, didn't they? I think so. Does he matter? Is it one of those ones that it would have mattered if he'd lived? And like Henry V, if he'd lived, then the outcome of the hundred years, one might have been different.

But as it was, does he leave an imprint on subsequent history? Yeah, a huge imprint. Firstly, if he'd retained his health, got his spending a bit more, under control. I think you'd have made a very good king. But the crucial thing in a way is that by dying when you did, and when you go to his tomb, I think this is what's so fascinating, that Edward III's Memorial in Westminster Abbey shows the king from a death mask so you can see the paralysis after the stroke of 1370. And he's looking his age. But when you pay tribute to the Black Friends, although he has a momentum more that says, basically watch out.

what I have become, you will also suffer the same fate. But of course, being the black prince, he's also had himself set out. And this was made very clear in his will in his prime. So what you see is a prince of about 1362, having just married the extremely attractive Joan of Kent and at the summit of his power. So we have up to a point justifiably an idealized version. And that idealized version, puts him above all the stuff that went wrong. And we can always look up to him and say, well, that was a bit special. And I would argue, and I have argued in my book, that there was enough truth in that to pull him out of his time and make him an exemplar of something in our history that we can be rightly proud of. That's a place to end. Thank you very much, Dr. Michael

Jones. Tell him what the book is called. Yep. So the book's called The Black Prince. A big pleasure to write it. Well, it was an enormous pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining. Yeah. Thank you very much, Dan. It's been great spending time with you. Well, folks, thank you very much for listening to Black Prince Remains for reasons we just heard, one of the most compelling figures of medieval England. A warrior, a commander of great charisma, a man who fought against the odds and triumph. A sort of prince who promised a golden age, but that never quite came to pass. As you've just heard, he died in 1376. He was 45 years old, in the absolute prime of life, it must be said.

His father died a year later and was succeeded by Richard, the Black Prince's 10-year-old son. And yet another good old-fashioned medieval era of turbulence and contested crowns was about to begin. And you can hear all about that

on a podcast I did with Helen Castor that went out at the end of October, so please check that out if you want to find out the next chapter of the story. As I said at the start, the Black Prince's tomb lies in Canterbury Cathedral. really can go and see it. That armoured effigy is one of the finest, most extraordinary objects,

I think, from the 14th century that we still got. And it's a symbol of an England that stood for a very brief moment, I think, at the height of its medieval power. Thank you so much for listening, folks. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure you like and subscribe, of course. And please send your new episode ideas to the email in the show notes. Goodbye for now. Have you been enjoying my podcast and now want even more history? Sign up to history and watch the world's best history on subjects like how William conquered England, what it was like to live in the Georgian era, and you can even hear the voice of Richard III.

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