Dan Snow's History Hit - The Commanders: Zhukov

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Marshal Georgy Zhukov was undoubtedly one of the Second World War's most formidable figures. Rising from humble peasant origins, Zhukov became the archetype of the Soviet warrior. He commanded vast armies of millions in some of the biggest, bloodiest and most pivotal battles not just of the Second World War but, in all human history. He was celebrated as the saviour of Moscow and the commander who captured the capital of the Third Reich, and is believed by many to be one of history’s greatest military leaders. But his immense popularity and success may also have sown the seeds of his political vulnerability at home in the paranoid Soviet system.In this episode of Dan Snow's History Hit, part five of The Commanders series, we go beyond the legend to explore the man behind the myth. What made Zhukov the leader he became? How did he not only survive the tumultuous world of Soviet politics but thrive? And, does he truly deserve his towering reputation or were his victories at the expense of the men who served under him?Our guide to explore Zhukov's life is the renowned historian Geoffrey Roberts. He is an emeritus professor of modern history at University College Cork and a leading expert on Soviet military history. He is also the author of Stalin's general: the life of Georgy Zhukov, so there is no one better to unpack the life, decisions, and legacy of the man who helped shape the outcome of the Second World War, and examine the fine line between glory and danger in Stalin’s Soviet Union.If you would like to read more of Geoffrey's work, his latest book is Wartime Letters – Kathleen HarrimanProduced and edited by Dougal Patmore.Dan Snow's History Hit is now available on YouTube! Check it out at: https://www.youtube.com/@DSHHPodcastSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.You can also email the podcast directly at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up to join us in historic locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit history hit.com slash subscribe. Moscow, June 1945. 40,000 Soviet soldiers parade through Red Square. Despite the rain, their heads are held high. Their chests are puffed out. Their uniforms are clean and crisp, their boots punished.

The metal and the barrel of their rifles is buffed to a high sheen. They bask in the glow of victory. It is a moment to reflect upon their historic achievement in the face of almost overwhelming suffering inflicted upon the Soviet Union during the Second World War. They have put behind them the bloody humiliation and chaos of 1941 and 1942. They have come through costly victories involving the sacrifice of millions.

But the Soviet Union is victorious and now one of the most powerful states in the world. At the head of this mighty display of military power rides a man on a white charger. The horse is tested, skittish, difficult to handle, but its rider deftly controls his excitable steed. His demeanour is confident, it's bullish. He sits upright in his saddle as he trots along the mass ranks of Soviet troops.

As the parade passes Lenin's Mausoleum, the bands strike up and there's the deafening sound of thousands of men unleashing a mighty hurrah, swept along on this flood of warriors, the banners, the flags of their fascist foes. The official story is that these are thrown into a great pile at the foot of Lenin's mausoleum, an offering a symbol of victory. But according to an eyewitness, they're actually thrown at the feet of the man on the white charger, recognition of his key role as the architect of Soviet triumph. This is his moment, basking in the esteem of his men. On top of Lenin's mausoleum, dignitaries are gathered to watch the parade. Generals and diplomats from around the world, high-ranking Politburo members.

At their centre stands Joseph Stalin. He's the unquestioned leader of a victorious nation, arguably the mightiest military power on the planet. But something seems to be distracting him. He's no longer watching the masked ranks of his men streaming past. Instead, his eyes are locked on to the man riding the white horse. He sees the self-assured control of its rider, the reverence with which the men view him. And a cloud of poisonous suspicion begins to fill his thoughts. The man riding the white charger is Giorgi Konstantinovich Zhukov, Marshal of the Soviet Union.

Stalin's favourite general until now. The savior of Moscow in 1941. Architect of the transformation in around Stalingrad in 42 and 43. The man who led Soviet armies from defeat to victory in campaigns that would crush Hitler's forces and ultimately capture the very capital of the Third Reich. Berlin in 1945. Jukov was the archetypal Soviet warrior. From humble origins, he'd risen through the ranks

to become one of the mightiest warlords of the Second World War with millions of men in his command. He's considered by some to one of the greatest military leaders of all time. And perhaps it was just that. His popularity, his reputation, his success that would lead to his downfall, as insecure Soviet leaders felt the threat he posed to their control. You're listening to Dan Snow's history. This is episode five in our commanders series.

We're digging into the lives and decisions of five legendary World War II commanders. We're going to cut through the myth. We're going to examine what shaped them, what shape their styles of command. In this episode, we're going to be joined by historian Jeffrey Roberts, Samaritus Professor of History at University College Cork. He is an expert on Russian-Soviet foreign and military policy and on style. in the Second World War, so we'd come to the right place. He's even written a biography of today's subject called Stalin's General, the life of Georgi Zhukov.

He is the perfect person to help us determine whether Marshal Zhukov truly deserves his reputation as one of the great commanders of the Second World War. In December 1896, around 60 miles east of Moscow, in the town of Strzlovka, Zhukov was born. His origins were humble. Indeed, his family were peasants. His father was a cobbler, his mother, a labourer. Chukov came from a peasant background.

At the age of 12, he was apprenticed as a farrier. He was very fortunate that when he was a child, this was a time when primary education was being introduced into the Russian countryside, yeah? So he had an elementary education. So he had an educational foundation for his later successes. And of course, he received more education. as part of his service in the armed forces.

By the time of the outbreak of First World War in 1914, he's finished his apprenticeship and he has a couple of apprentices of his arms. Now, interesting point here is that when war breaks out, Zhukov is not among those who volunteers for military service. He waits until he's conscripted. So he's conscripted into the Tsarist army in 1915. And because he is a skilled worker and because he also has a certain level of education, He gets posted to a cavalry regiment, yeah?

So he's part of the elite of desirist army during the First World War. Jukov may have joined a fashionable unit where the officers were aristocrats, princes of the blood, sort of who moved in and around royal circles. But the troopers, the guys did the grunt work, you'll be surprised alone. People like Zhukov work out from a different cloth. They were still very much peasants. But it meant that people like him got a glimpse into another world entirely. With war, some comes opportunity.

and Jukov began to show his qualities as a soldier and a leader. But, unlike many of the commanders in this series, the First World War was only an initial stepping stone for Zhukov. Instead, it was what followed. It was the Russian Civil War that really forge Zhukov into the commander that we recognize today. He gets promoted. He is an armed commissioned officer. And he has quite a good service record.

He sees quite a lot of action. He's wounded a couple of times. He's decorated for bravery. But then what happens is that come the 1917 revolution in Russia, the Tsarist army disintegrates in large part, including, you know, Zhukov's junior at that time. So then basically Zhukov returns home, returns to his home village. But then what happens next is that Zyukov is conscripted again. It's conscripted by the Bolsheviks into the newly created workers and peasants army,

which comes to be known as the regret on. And it's conscripted because, He has this military experience. He's an NCO. It's just a kind of person they want to get back into the armed forces. But again, he's conscripted, right? But when he's conscripted into the newly created Red Army, that's when his political education becomes.

Before that, he wasn't very political at all. But when he becomes part of the Red Army, then he gets very political. And indeed, himself becomes a communist, right? It's actually when he becomes a Red Army soldier, that's when he develops the self-control discipline for which he later becomes claims to find out of the anti-termination. But of course, I have to remember, he's growing up.

This is his early adulthood. And yeah, sure, he matures. But again, you know, in the Red Army, it has a successful career. He becomes what's effectively an officer. He's decorated for bravery again. He sees quite a lot of military action. But post-the-revolution, when the Russian Civil War comes to an end in 1921, 1922, Jukov opts to remain within the Red Army.

It's his choice to continue the life of a soldier. And what he says about that, he says that what he liked about being a soldier was that every day was different. There's always something new happening, something going on. So for him, soldier was always interesting. The Russian Civil War really shaped the military education that someone like Zhukov received. To put it simply, this wasn't a war of trenches and static lines across the Western Front like the First World War. It was chaotic. It was sprawling.

It was forced across vast territories. There were enormous advances and retreats. From 1917 to 1923, mobility was everything. Huge cavalry armies galloped across immense distances, often with little logistical support. Keeping men supplied with food, ammunition, winter clothing was as challenging as defeating the enemy. It was the kind of warfare that demanded quick thinking, improvisation, constant movement, decisiveness, and the ability to identify and then strike at weak points across a shifting front. For an officer, speed, endurance, initiative were more important than, for example, marshalling, overpowering firepower. It is very much a very mobile war. It's a war of maneuver, constantly changing front lines, very, very complex struggle because, okay, so it's a civil war

between the Bolsheviks on the one hand and the so-called white armies on the other hand. But there's several of different white armed formations that the Bolsheviks are fighting on several different fronts. And Zhukov actually serves on several different fronts. So that's a very complex, fluid struggle. And of course, it is a civil war, right? So there's a struggle, a very brutal struggle going on behind the lines as well as on the front line as well. And in fact, Shoucault's part of that. His last military action during the civil war period, at the end of the civil war period, was being part of a unit that was suppressing, very brutally, suppressing a peasant revolt against Bolshevik rule. For all of the Red Army's like top commanders

later on in the Second World War, the Civil War, more so than the First World War, is a hugely kind of like formative experience in their military education. Mobility, being very confident with astonishing uncertainty, I can imagine, not sure where they even are, where are you going to be advancing next season. And then also, you know, pivot, strike, pivot, strike in different directions, different, you know, I can imagine that it's a heck of a training. Yeah, sure, but Zhukov is also trying to reduce the uncertainty, yes, right? To understand the situation, to grasp the situation, right? To actually control it.

I think that's one of his qualities as he matures as a top-level military commander, is that ability to envision what's going on in a very complex battlefield or a complex campaign or a series of operations and attempt to actually impose order and discipline because that's the way you're going to win. The mobility of the civil war suited Zhukov. He was a covering man, after all, never happier than in the saddle, covering vast distances, taking an enemy in the flank by surprise.

The war had taught him about managing complex and confusing combat situations, the importance of manoeuvre warfare. By 1923, following the victory of the Red Army in the Civil War, he was in command of a cavalry regiment. He had gone to graduate from the higher school of cavalry in 2025 and progressed to the elite Frunz Military Academy. By 1933, he commanded an entire cavalry division. But as Zhukov advanced with the ranks, a new threat emerged.

But that wasn't an attack by an enemy nation. It was the enemies at home he needed to worry about. During the 1930s, Stalin had become paranoid about potential opposition groups derailing the Soviet project, or, more accurately, his project. He orchestrated a massive series of purges. These peaked in around 1986 to 2008 during what became known as the Great Purge. Hundreds of thousands of so-called enemies of the people were arrested, they were tortured, they were executed in prison, Stalin's secret police were busy.

These purges were accompanied by show trials, though accusations of treason and sabotage, much of the old Bolshevik elite were destroyed. Stalin's personal dictatorship was cemented in. Every strata of society was affected. Party officials, intellectuals, ordinary citizens. The Soviet military command were far from immune. Between 1937 and 38, thousands of officers from marshal downwards were removed, in some cases tried and executed. When so many officers face ruin, imprisonment and death, how did Zhukov survive? Well, it didn't just survive. He thrives. Zhukov personally benefits from the purges.

So in the 1920s, Zhukov is a Red Army commander. He becomes a regimental commander. That's why he reminds. For the 1920s, seven years, is a regimental commander. It's only in the 1930s that his promotion to the very top ranks of the Red Army begin. Okay, and that happens for two reasons. First is because there's a massive expansion of the Soviet armed forces during the 1930s and rearmament to actually meet various external threats,

which Stalin and the other Soviet leader see. But the second thing that's going on is from the mid-1930s on was, are these like massive purges of the armed forces, right? And it's actually the purging of various people that creates vacancies for Zhukov to fill. So that's what's happened. When he's getting promoted,

he's actually stepping into the positions that have previously been held by officers who had now been perched. Why is Zhukov himself not purged? it's because he's loyal and also because okay Zhukov becomes a communist adopts a communist identity it's committed to the communist

cause but Zhukov is not very political right so he doesn't get involved in political intrigues yeah so he's kind of like relatively apoliticalness I think helps him survive but basically he remains loyal

he doesn't cause any trouble is not to seem to be a political challenge in any way but there's no doubt at all is that personally in terms of his career progress Zyukov benefits from Stalin's purges. When Zhukov comes decades later to write his memoirs, he tries to put a different spin on that.

He says he was lucky to escape the purges, and he tells stories about how he came under Frey. Now, you know, I'm one of Zhukov's biographers. I kind of like to believe these stories, but I don't see any evidence for him. I'm a bit skeptical about that. Yeah, Zhukov survived because he was a loyal Soviet soldier, Alan Koppel.

And also, he gets promoted because he's a very able soldier, a very able command. Okay, he's not, he's no military genus. He's actually not one of the rising stars of the Red Army in the 1930s, right? But he's very, very, very solid. He's very, very liable, very, very competent. And whatever position he's given, he gets the job done. Jukov's rise had so far been steady. He was clearly a competent officer. And perhaps more importantly at that point, he was a reliable, loyal, communist and party member. But in May 1939, Zhukov received the posting that would put him on the map as a battlefield commander. Between 1938 and 909, there had been a series of bloody clashes,

it's now largely forgotten but super important at the time, between Soviet and Japanese troops along the Kalkingol River on the Mongolian Manchurian order. Zhukov was initially sent to investigate the reasons for unsatisfactory Soviet performance in the area, But as Geoffrey explains, this was an act of fate that would push Zhukov to the fore with a victory that would have an outsized strategic effect. Jukov is also very lucky in his career in many ways. And this is one of these lucky turning points in his life because basically he's sent to Mongolia, to the Mongolian Manchurian border in May 1939 on an inspection tour. sent there to have a look at the Red Army formation there, which is like locked in a, and not actually in combat with the Japanese, but in a confrontation with the Japanese.

Because Japan had invaded Manchuria in 1931, and that had created a border between Japanese occupied Manchuria and Mongolia. And there are border clashes. There are border conflicts and tensions. It's not actually quite clear. So Zhukov sent to a place called Halkingol, Halkingol River, to actually, inspect, see what's going on to assess the performance of the local military command. But what happens when he's there is that there are some actual clashes with the Japanese, clashes in which the Soviets don't perform

too well, actually, right? So that creates an opening for Zhukov because his masters in Moscow decide, as he's on the spot, and he's got a good reputation, they decide to appoint him the commander of the local forces at Haukengal. So that's how he comes to this senior command on the Mongolian-Manchur and border. And how he comes to fight this battle with the Japanese in August 1939, the Halking Gold Battle. Okay, and what he does is that during his battle, he executes a classic kind of encirclement maneuver

against the Japanese army. You know, he advances in the center, pins the Japanese down, and then out flanks them. And he encircles Japanese force. And he fixes a huge defeat on Japanese forces. The Japanese defeat at Halkinbol reinforces the difficult they'll have in relation to their campaign in China, which isn't going very well. So it reinforces the advocates of the so-called southern strategy who say, oh, obviously,

Japan should actually expand into Southeast Asia and the Pacific, of course, which actually precipitates the clash with the United States, yeah. And that makes his reputation as a military, come on, of course, this is his first large-scale combat operation, yeah, okay, yeah, combat experience from the First World War and Civil War, but it's not until 1939, that he actually conducts an actual military operation. Yeah, so leads him later being promoted to the rank of four general. Zhukov's also lucky in another respect.

So he has this luck being the man on the spot in time for this battle with the Japanese, which is very successful. But after the Hell King Gold Battle, Zuccoff remains in Mongolia to negotiate with the Japanese, the terms of the armist, and negotiate a settlement of the conflict there. So he's out in Mongolia for several months after August 1939, which, of course, coincides with the Red Army's attack on Finland

in the winter of 193940, right? And, of course, okay, ultimately the Red Army subdued the Finns, forces to Vince to sign a peace treaty, which concedes the territory that Stalin wanted to capture from Finland. But the campaigns are very costly one, And there's lots of mistakes made. But Zhukov, because he's in the far east, has nothing to do with the campaign. So his reputation, it remains unblemished.

Following his success in Mongolia, Zhukov was awarded the Soviet Union's highest military honor, hero of the Soviet Union, the first of four occasions on which he'd received the award. He was also promoted to general and given command of the Kiev Special Military District, a vitally important role in the defense of the Soviet Union's Western borders. After the Finnish War, the Winter War, starting the appoints Marshal Timoshenko as the new defense minister. Marshal Timoshenkov and Zhukov are quite personally close, having served together

in the 1930. So Zyukov's appointment to that major position is at least in part to part to do with his personal connections to Tumashenko. I don't think Zhukov was thinking about defending the Soviet Union. No, no, no. What he's thinking about, it's like all the Red Army leaders are thinking about, they're thinking about how they're going to attack Germany. I'm not saying what offensive operations they're going to conduct because the basic strategic orientation of the Red Army High Command, Jukov included, was that when the Germans attacked, they weren't just going to sit back a defense. They were going to deal with their attack by launching a series of counter-offensives. And that's one of the reasons

why Zhukov is hosted to this frontline military district based around Kiev, because of his offensive success at Halkingal, and because he's seen as someone who will be able to conduct the large-scale offensive operations, which the Soviets plan to initiate when the Germans attack them. And it's also that kind of offensive-minded orientation of Zhukovs, which leads to his next promotion. So he's head of the Kiev military district from 1940, early 1941. Then in February, 1941, he's appointed chief of the general staff.

Okay, and our appointment follows a series of war games that the Soviets had conducted in January, 1941. And these are war games about fighting a war with Germany. And Zhukov had taken part in those war games, and it basically won these war games. So again, that reinforces his reputation as someone, who has the ability to actually conduct counter-offensive operations against the Germans when the war comes. So it makes sense to actually appoint Zhukov, chief of the general stock, because that's the basic strategic concepts that the Soviets have.

When the world begins, they're going to fight an offensive war against Germany. And that doesn't mean, or necessarily mean they're going to launch a preemptive strike, or the idea is when the Germans attack, the Soviets are going to counter-attack. And Zhukov is seen as being the right. person to be chief of the general staff in relation to that strategy. But here's the thing, Zhukov wasn't really a staff officer. He never had been. I don't think Zuccov ever really wanted to be chief of the general staff. You know, Zhukov was a frontline officer. That was where his talent lie, actually, not as a chief of the general staff. In June 1941, Nazi Germany and its

allies launched Operation Barbarossa. It was the largest invasion in human history. Millions of enemy troops poured across the border from German-occupied Poland into the Soviet Union. Zhukov's plans would finally be put to the test. They would be found severely lacking. A crucial point here about the initial success of Operation Barbarossa, right? A lot of it was very much to do with the flawed nature of the Soviet preparations for this offensive war with Germany. Because what happens, okay, when the Germans launched Operation Barbarossa, the Soviets attempt to implement these plans for counteroffensive operations. And Zhukov is very much part of that. He's not an active part of it.

The Germans attack on June 22nd. Within a day or two, Zhukov has returned to the Kiev military district to actually take part in the counteroffensive that's going to be launched from that direction. But these counteroffensive turned out to be disastrous. They fail. and they actually expose hundreds of thousands of Soviet troops to encirclement, right? Those massive incircle operations also reveal another problem with Soviet preparation for the war is that they don't have any doctrine or plans of training to deal with encirclement because that wasn't what they anticipated happening.

They didn't anticipate being insurgent. They anticipated encircling the German attackers. Zhukov, as chief of general staff, does bear a lot of responsibility for the disaster that beffalls the Red Army as a result of Operation Barbrosa. It's not just it. It's obviously the whole of the High Command. And obviously, Stalin is the Supreme Commander. Ultimately, it's Stalin's responsibility, not Zyukov's. But what you can say in Zhukov's favor is that in response to this huge disaster, which unfolds as a result of Operation Barbrossom, the Germans are very, very quickly reached the outskirts of Leningrad, Moscow. They, they

They capture Kiev, the penetration very deep into Ukraine and southern Russia. It's at no time during this process, does he lose his call? He keeps his composure, right? And that's generally true of the Red Army. But one thing that does happen as a result of Barbarossa, what's going on, and it's not to do with failure, is that Zhukov leaves the position of Chief of the Soviet General Staff. He's placed in charge of a reserve front, right?

What's called a reserve front, but I just put a big front. about 50 divisions, right? It is sometimes seen as a demotion, but I don't think it was. Zhukov was stepping aside as being Chief of the General Staff because he had a lot more to contribute as being actually a frontline commander of this reserve front. And it's this reserve front that actually does actually lodge a partially successful counter-offensive against the Germans as they're advancing towards Moscow along the Smolensk-Moscow axis. Yeah.

But the other thing to say about this disaster of June 22nd, right, is that at the time, it wasn't so shocking. Because of course, this is the German army that conquered France in just a few weeks. Overrun Western Europe, right? It wasn't shocking that the Germans had this huge militancy successes initially with Operation Arborosso. So in that sense, blame wasn't being attached, right? What was actually shocking, or came to be shocking, was the Soviets, the Red Army, Jukkah, Stalin, the Soviet army, they were able to survive.

This huge defeat, huge defeats, huge defeats. By the end of 1941, the Soviets have suffered four million casualties. Just think about that. Barbarossa had been a catastrophe. Millions of men had been lost, thousands of kilometres of territory lost, untold destruction done. German forces advanced deep into the Soviet Union. Following his removal as chief of staff in July 1941,

Zhukov was sent to take control as several critical frontline commands. He redeemed himself. He proved his metal as a frontline commander. he played a key role in stabilising collapsing sectors, such as during the defence of Leningrad. By the autumn, the fall of 1941, both sides have been battered and bloodied. But the German High Command was determined to make one last push to finish off the Soviet Union that year. They would strike at the capital, Moscow. They would decapitate the Soviet state.

Zhukov was placed in charge of its defence. Of course, there is this famous photo of advanced German units being within the site of the Kremlin, yes? And they're there, and in the distance there's the Kremlin. That's what nowadays we would call like fake news, yes? It's a fake photo, obviously. It's a propaganda photo. Okay, so, but why is it that the Germans are approaching Moscow? We're initially during the autumn where you have the famous Respiteza, the time of bad roads because of the rain and stuff like that, mud and things like that.

And then following that, because of like, you know, wintery conditions. which developed in October, November. Why is it they're approaching that point? Well, they're approaching that point, because their advance on Moscow has been held up for about two months in the Similansk area. Huge battles going on in the Smolensk area,

which did lie to German approach to Moscow, to the outskos of Moscow. And it's really those Smolensk battles are actually crucial battles in saving Moscow from German capture. And of course, one of those Smolensk battles is the battle that Zhukov waged, as a command of a disreserved front,

Battle of Yelnair, and it's a battle in the Smolensk area where Zyukov is able to push the Germans back, actually recapture occupied territory. Now, okay, the Germans recapture that territory not long after, but it's part of the massive delay the German stuffer on the road to Moscow. But the Germans, by October, 1941,

are very much within striking distance of Moscow. Zyukov is recalled to Moscow, by Stalin to take control of the defence of Moscow. He's recalled by the way from Leningrad, yeah. And he'd been sent to Leningrad by Stalin in order to help save Leningrad from German capture. Okay, but then Moscow becomes more of a priority. So Stalin brings him to Moscow

and puts him in command of an army formation called the Western Front, so the Soviet front of the Soviet Army. And its task is to defend the Soviet capital from the German defense. And that's what it does. but also what's happening at the same time is that the Soviets are accumulating reserves east of Moscow, number of divisions east of Moscow, with a view to actually launching a counteroffensive

which will push the Germans away and safeguard Moscow. And Zhukov is very much part of the planning and preparation for that counteroffensive. Of course, he's in charge of it. He's the commander of the front that conducts that. It's actually Zhukov's defense of Moscow and his counter-offensive Moscow that really makes his reputation as a Soviet joke. That's when it happens, right? So Zhukov very much seen as being the savior of Moscow. Of course, the other person who's seen as being the savior of Moscow at the time and also in retrospect is Stalin.

Because Stalin doesn't evacuate the Soviet capital. There is quite a large scale evacuation of various Soviet ministries and diplomats and so on to Kubishev out of harm's way. But Stalin himself remains in Moscow. And of course, there's this famous parade through Red Square on November 7th, 1941, where Stalin reviews, reviews the troops, troops which are parading through Red Square very shortly afterwards being sent to the front. So there's a huge kind of like psychological. aspect to the Moscow battle, and Jouca is very much part of that psychology that we can survive and we can win, but also Stalin as well. So it's Stalin and Zucco who saved Moscow, the two of them

together. And that has actually, what the Moscow counteroffensive signified was the operation Barbarossa had failed as a strategic operation. It was a failure. And now what the Germans were faced with, they were faced with fighting a war of attrition on the eastern front. And now, That was a war that there was no clues. And of course, who was it, who commanded the Soviet forces that launched the Moscow crowd offensive? It was Zhukov. You listen to Dan Snow's history hit. The best is yet to come.

Stick with us. Jukov hadn't just halted the Nazi juggernaut outside Moscow, but for the first time in this war, he'd inflicted a stinging defeat upon it. This helped to convince Stalin, that he'd finally find. found the right man for one of the toughest jobs in military history. Jeffrey explains. He said I'd have met Zhukov. He knew Shok.

He knows about how King Goat, right? He'd work very closely with Zhukov when Zhukov was chief of the General Staff. Zhikov has scores of meetings with Stalin in the period leading up to the German invasion in June 9.4th. Yeah, so Steyn absolutely knows him, right? That's why he placed him in charge of this reserve front, right? I think Zhurkoff's request. I think Zhukov requested to be relieved as a petition of Chief of the General Staff because he thought he could do more good in charge of this reserver.

Now, there's an important biographical point to make here, which is in his memoirs, Zhukov claims that he was dismissed as being Chief of the General Staff because he'd opposed Stalin's policy in relation to Kiev, right? So there was a big battle of Kiev in the summer of 1941, right? And basically, Zhukov claims that he wanted to withdraw Soviet forces from the Kiev era to save them from encirclement by the Germans, whereas Stalin opposed that. Stalin didn't want to give up the defense of Kiev.

So Zhugev says, well, we disagree. So Stalin will leave me in my position and then I went to command this reserve. I'm not saying, I don't think that happened. I'm not saying there wasn't a disagreement. I think there was a discreet between Shukov and Stalin over. what to do at Kiev, but I don't think that was the reason he left the chief of general style position and went to reserve it. I went to reserve it because he was seen as the person that could actually do a job there in terms of mounting some kind of actual successful

counter-offensive against the Germans, and he did that, he succeeded, and then he goes to Leningrad and he does quite a good job in Leningrad. So Jukov is the obvious man for Stalin to call to Moscow, to the very much seen. I was under Freya. Just not a theory or a notion, right? Stalin, the Soviets fear greatly that Moscow is going to be captured by the job. So it's quite natural that Stalin will bring his best general back to Moscow to conduct the defense of the Soviet capital.

And here's the thing. Why does Stalin see Zhukov as his best general? Okay, it's obviously to do with Zhukos, beforegos, as a commander. but it's also to do with Stalin's absolute conviction about Zhukov's loyalty and discipline, and that he will do what is necessary, wherever it takes, and he'll also follow orders. He'll carry out his instructions to let. So Stalin has this huge kind of trust in Zhukov as his top general. Moscow may have been saved, but victory was far from assured.

The Varemark and its allies may ever receive a bloody nose and the snows out of the the Soviet capital, but its strength was certainly not spent yet. During the summer of 1942, Nazi Germany launched a monumental new offensive, this time in southern Russia. The aim was to seize the Soviet oil fields of the Caucasus, something vital to both sides. Germany needed them to fuel its war machine, and their loss would cripple the Soviet capacity to fight. German forces surging across southern Russia also struck towards the vulgar around the city of Stalingrad, in a bid to disrupt Soviet traffic on that Great River, as well as seize the important industrial city.

Rukov would once again be called on by Stalin, as the Soviet Union faced another crisis. The failure of Operation Barbarossa and a success of the Moscow counter-offensive, okay, there are a series of winter battles, but basically there's kind of retrenchment by both sides, as they prepare for the next round of spring and summer campaign. That's launched in June 1942. And like Bob Rosser, initially, that campaign is a huge success. Although the casualties suffered by the Soviet side in summer in 1942, are considerably less than they were in 1941.

The Soviet had learned some lessons about defense and about needing to retreat. Now, okay, so the Germans have launched a summer campaign, but actually, Stalin and then, Rukov remained convinced that the main battle is going to take place in front of Moscow. Their view is that Moscow is still the German's main target, because if the Germans could capture Moscow, they can win the war effectively. They don't really appreciate what's going on in the South. It takes them a while to get up to speed, right?

But once Stalin does get up to speed and sees what's happening in the South, sees the breakthroughs that the Germans are making in the Southern Fear. right and seized the threat to Stalingrad like by August 42 the Germans are on the outskirts of Stalingrad that's the moment in which he gives Zhukov another job right he transfers him from being the chief at the Western Front command and he makes Zhukov his deputy supreme commander right and Jukov's job as deputy supreme command is basically is Stalin's personal representative, as all the power and authority that entails. But his most fundamental task is to coordinate the activities of the different Soviet fronts, because there are a number of different

fronts, and they're fighting alongside each other, doesn't need to coordinate their action, to supervise their action, right? So that's Zhukov's job as Stavka coordinator. Okay, and the first place he's sent to do this job of coordination, he's sent to Stalingrad, to the Stalingrad area to actually coordinate the defense of Stalingrad, city itself, but also on the flanks of the city and also the fighting that's going on elsewhere in the south. So Zhukov is very much at the center of the unfolding action at Stalingrad. But the question is, okay, so the Soviets are defending, they're trying to stop the Germans from capturing the whole of Stalingrad. Of course, the Germans, as you know, actually did capture up to 90% of Stalingrad. But it,

The 10% that didn't capture was crucial to maintaining supply lines at Costa Volga. But the question is, well, what are you going to do, apart from defending, saying, OK, and what you're going to do is another version of what the Soviets had done in relation to the Moscow battle. You're going to build up your forces in the rear and on the flanks, and you're going to launch a counteroffensive, a counteroffensive, which is two goals. firstly to encircle the Germans within the city of Stalingrad. But actually, more importantly, actually to cut off the Germans' southern campaign, to trap the German forces heading towards Baku in the south.

And that concept is not just about Stalingrad. It's not just about defeating the German sovereign campaign or rolling it back. It's actually seen as a been a war-winning grand strategy. Yeah, soviet speak, if they can pull this off, they can not just win in the south, they can win across the whole of the front. It's Jukov, not just Jukov, but Jukov and Vassilovsky, Vasilevsky, who is the new chief of the Soviet general staff, and Zyukov and Vassilovsky were very closely together in the war. It's Zhukov and Vaskilovsky's plan for this massive counter-effects necessarily. It's there, they're the two who actually supervised the development, the operationalization

of this plan. And that's what happened. Of course, we know, there is this famous Soviet counteroffensive in November 1942, which very successfully entraps the Germans

in Steregrat. Powerces, general policy, six army, yeah? Actually, the Soviets are rather surprised at how many Germans they trap.

They'd anticipate trapping about 100,000. But as it turns out, there's about 300,000 German troops. So that's very successful. And then, you know, we all know about

the subsequent siege of the German forces in Stangrad and their eventual surrender at the end of January, 1944. The other Soviet operational goal is not achieved. They don't succeed in trapping the Germans in the South. The Germans are able to withdraw their forces. And the fact that the German are able to withdraw their forces from the thrust towards Bwarko, that's of huge significance. Because what that means is that for the next two years, they're able to wage a fighting step by step by step, defensive campaign in southern Russia and very, very importantly, in Ukraine.

So that failure of the, actually the bigger goal of the operation is quite a sick of it. But obviously, but what's those are, it's a huge success. Despite the vast bloodshed at Stalingrad, Zhukov had once again achieved the stunning victory. And it is argued that it was here that the tide of the war was irrevocably turned. But how had he done it? And would there be any way back for Nazi Germany? It's meticulous preparation, preparation of overwhelming force to actually deliver the offensive blows

and achieve the operational effect. Attention to detail, yeah. Zhukov is obsessed with preparation, accessed with inspections, right, training, yeah? Assembly, all the technical means necessary to actually conduct the operations, right? It's his imagination, which leads to this concept of a massive counter-offensive operation at Stalingrad, but in practical terms, he's involved in the coordination of the fronts, the various fronts involved in the operation, and also making sure that the fronts are actually prepared and able to carry out their operational tasks. I suppose the overall work of Zhukov is

he placed a great emphasis on Maskerovka, masking, yes, covering up Soviet intentions. And that is a big feature of the preparations for the state. and Great counter-offensive is the degree to which the Soviets are able to cover up their intentions and to actually spring quite a big surprise on the jumps. And not just on the Germans, of course, because the big success of the Stalingrad operation wasn't just entrapping the Germans. It was breaking through the flanks of the Axis armies. That campaign broke the Italian, Romanian and Hungarian armies, didn't they?

And it is actually their defeat at Stalingrader that lead. to the disintegration, the political disintegration of Hitler's Axis alliance. And the way I look at the Stalingrad War battle is that the Stalingrad battle is the point of no return for the Germans. There's no way back from the strategic defeat at Stalingrad. There's no doubt about the outcome of the world. The question is how long is it going to take? How costly is it going to be, right? So for me, Stalingrad is the great turning point of the Soviet-German war, right? Jukov may have achieved remarkable victories and broken the back of the Axis armies, but it

all come at a terrible price. Soviet casualties would continue to be terrible throughout the remainder of the war. A common criticism of Jukov is that he was careless with the lives of his men. But is that really the case? Geoffrey doesn't think so. Nothing annoyed Zhukov more than these accusations that he was indifferent to the casualties on his own side, right? I think in nine Jukov more than armchair generals lecturing him or anyone else on how they could have won

these battles that far less cost more efficiently, right? Look, Jukov's casualties were no worse than any other Soviet generals. If you actually compare the stats, they're more or less the same. So the casualties are a function of the situation and the nature of the war. If you think about the casualties that are incurred on the Western Front during the First World War, It's kind of comparable levels we're talking about here in the eastern front context. But the other thing to remember is that Zhukov, Stalin in particular as well, were very sensitive about the issue of casualties because, of course, Soviet manpower resources are not unlimited.

At various point in the war, they find themselves running out of personnel. So they're very concede to conserve their personnel as far as possible. But having said that, yeah, I mean, Zhukov, Stalin, the whole of the Soviet command, they were prepared to sacrifice what soldiers were necessary to achieve their goals. I don't think they were like callous or cruel in relation to their troops, but they were certainly ruthless and determined and were prepared to incur high casualties, very high casualties in order to win the war. Okay, you can certainly make an argument they could have won the war with fewer casualties,

but who knows, you can say that their disciplinary regime was too harsh. I mean, during the war, the Soviets executed more than 150,000 their own troops, for whatever, various offensives, right? But at any end, you have to ask the question, was that the only way that they could win the war? And are you prepared to risk losing the war by maybe having a more benign approach to military discipline? You listen to Dan Snow's history at this war coming up.

Following the Soviet victory at Stalingrad, Soviet forces advanced rapidly. They'd retaken swathes of land and cities, including place like Kursk. The Germans had eventually halted the Soviet advance with a series of desperate counter-attacks, and the front had stabilized by March 1943. However, a large bulge was left projecting into the German line. Both sides knew that a clash here was inevitable. It allowed to pinch off the bulge and destroy the Soviet forces within it, which then would forestall a Soviet summer offensive. On the other hand, Stalin believed the enemy was on the back foot and wanted to switch back to the offensive.

Zhukov urged caution. He argued that they should let the Germans attack be drawn into a trap with potentially devastating consequences. The curse battle was the Germans' last major offensive battle of the Soviet-German war. And the Soviets, Zhukov, they saw it coming. In a way, it was kind of obvious that the Germans would launch a big attack in the Kersk area. So the basic plan was to actually defend, to a trit, to wage a war of attrition in the Kersk area against the Germans.

And how he warned down the Germans to launch a series of counter-offensive campaigns, right? And that's exactly what happened. The German attack and the Kersaerzian failed. They suffered huge casualties. And the Soviets were able to launch a series of offensive operations. one of the most important of which was, and this is the one that Zhukov was centrally involved in as coordinator of the France, was an offensive into Ukraine. So following the curse battle, there's a year-long battle which the Soviets fight to expel the Germans from Ukraine. And Zhukov is very much involved in that battle, essentially involved in recapturing Kiev in November 94.

So there's a huge battle for Ukraine in 1943, 1940, 1940. 44, and it's one of the main focuses of Zhukov's activities in that period. After Kursk, it's clear that the Allies are going to win the Second War, it's clear that the Soviets are going to liberate their own country and indeed push into much of Eastern and Central Europe. What's his thinking now in terms of strategy in terms of the operational plan? Is it just keep up the tempo operations, keep punching the Germans, keep them off balance? Or are he in Stalin hoping to gobble up as much of Europe as?

possible? What do you think is going through his head now from late 43 onwards? He's very much focused on defeating the Germans, on reaching Berlin. That's his focus. So, okay, so you have the curse battle in the summer of 1943. The next big operation campaign starts in the summer of 1944, June 1944, the famous Operation Bagration, which is an operation against Army Group Centre. And the aim of that operation is to liberate Belarusia from German occupation and to defeat, destroy army group center, right? One of the main directions of that operation, Bagration, Ration, was towards Warsaw, into Poland and into Warsaw.

And that's a hugely successful operation. So by the end of July, the Red Army is on the outskirts of Warsaw. But here's the thing. For Zhukov, Warsaw was a secondary objective, right? Zhukov argued in favor of focusing on entering into German territory in East Prussia. He focuses very much on the invasion of German territory. He thinks that Warsaw and Poland, that can wait. It's getting into Germany is what he wants to do.

But he's overall, the Soviet leadership thinks that actually it'll be easier to advance through Poland to Germany rather than to do it through East Prussia. So that's that question is Zhukov is, focused on getting to Germany, invading Germany, capturing Berlin. That's Zhukov's focus. Zhukov had led campaigns that had utterly shattered the Vermacht and Germany's allies. While the spring of 1945, Soviet armies were now deep into the Third Reich and were marching inexorably towards Berlin. Zhukov would finally get his chance to strike at the very heart of the fascist beast. So actually the last great Soviet military operation of Second World War is the operation which Zhukov captures Warsaw and then heads towards Berlin.

In fact, the aim of the operation was to capture Berlin by February, 1945. That was the strategic goal. And indeed, Joukov's view at the time was that his forces were capable of capturing Berlin as early. as February or maybe March, 1945. The problem was the danger was, were they capable of holding onto Berlin having captured it, yeah?

Okay, the Germans were down, but they weren't out, right? They still had considerable forces on hand in the Berlin area. There were lots of dangers of German, localized German counter-attach, which could do a lot of damage to Soviet forces heading towards Berlin.

So in the end, the decision was taken, and I think, as you've got, was part of decision was to halt the advance on Berlin. This is in February, 1945, with a view to resuming it later on in year. And of course, what happens is that the Soviet advance on Berlin is resumed in April 1945. The main thrust of that advance was conducted by the first Belarusian front, and the commander of the first Belarusian front was Zhukov. And it was Stalin who decided to give Zhukov this command and this mission of capturing Berlin, which was kind of like obvious of the way, natural because, of course, you know, Dukov was Stalin's deputy supreme commander.

Dukov was Stalin's general, so it was only natural that Stalin would actually assign Zyukov this final mission, wartime mission, of capturing Berlin. On the 16th of April, 1945, the Soviet assault on Berlin began. The city was soon in circle, Soviet forces, began to advance through the shattered cityscape itself. After days of desperate fighting amongst the smash ruins of the Nazi capital, on the 2nd of May in 1945, the last German forces in the city surrendered.

Hitler was dead. Nazi Germany was utterly defeated. Days later, on the 8th of May, the formal surrender of Nazi Germany was signed in Berlin, overseen by Marshal Zhukov, who signed the decree on behalf of the Soviet Union. Zhukov was at the zenith of his career. But in the Soviet Union, when Stalin's your boss, success means danger. During the war, Zhukov had shown total loyalty to Stalin.

He'd brought him victory after victory. He'd walked the tightrope of keeping on the right side of this mercurial leader. But with the laurels of victory being heaped upon victory, Zhukov's head, Stalin's suspicions of him only grew. Some said that Stalin even feared his vaunted marshal. I don't think we've started with scared of Zhukov. Certainly suspicious, but then Stalin was suspicious of everyone. Zyukov has this reputation of being the only one among Stalin's generals being willing

to stand up to Stalin, to speak his mind. And I think there is something to that reputation. But in the end, Zhukov is subordinate. it is a partnership but in this partnership Stalin is the dominant parliament and that's true throughout the whole war of course what happened at the end of the war is that Stalin goes very

I want to say suspicious he gets very irritated with Zhukov because he thinks Zhukov is garnering too much of the glory of the victory in the great Patriot War he thinks that Zhukov is claiming too much credit for the great military feats of the war and he thinks that Stalin himself he should get more credit

it, then Jukov seems to be, Stalin falls out with Jukov just after the work. In June 1945, there's this victory parade in Red Square, yeah? And Jukov is the one who takes the salute at this victory plate. Stalin reviews the plate from on top of the Lenin Mosleon, but Jukov takes the salute. And then Jukov finishes taking the salute, he's on the horse line, and then he goes out, he makes this speech. And then there's this parade of the various represents the various Soviet armed forces formation, right? And as part of that part, when the high points of that parade, is when 200 Nazi banners are piled up against the Kremlin War.

Well, there's a very interesting eyewitness report of that parade. It's by Kathleen Harriman, who was the daughter of the American ambassador in the Moscow this time, Avril Harriman. So she's at the parade, right? And what she witnesses, and she writes, this is in a letter a couple of days after, operate. What she sees is these banners being piled up against Zhukov's feet, at

Zhukov's feet. That's the way she sees that scene being enacted. And that's not what you see when you see the Soviet newsreel. I have a feeling that that moment might be the moment when Stalin's relationship or attitude towards Zhukov begins to sour. Okay, and that

leads eventually to Zhukov being demoted and sent off to regional commands after war. But a couple of points about that, about Jukov's post-war banishment, if you like. The first part is that Zuccov never blamed Stalin for what happens to him. He didn't blame Stalin. He thought that Stalin was misled by people around him, right?

And the second thing is Zuccov's like banishment and punishment is alienation from Stalin or distancing from Staling is actually quite short-lived. By the late 1940s, when Stalin is still alive, Zuccov is being rehabilitated. He's coming back into the fold at the very top level. In fact, Zyukov's opinion was that if Stalin hadn't have died what he did in March 1953, Stalin was going to appoint a minister of defense. So one shouldn't exaggerate the extent of Stalin's falling out with Zhukov after the war.

Jukov's punishment by Stalin was, believe me, was very, very mild compared to the punishment that was meeting out to other Soviet generals who seemed to be disloyal or insubordered or something like that. In March 1953, Stalin suffered a massive stroke and died. His passing would provide Shukov with a moment of rebirth and an opportunity to step out of the wilderness as the Soviet Union lunged into a leadership crisis. This time, Zhukov would act to defend his nation against the possibility of a new era of terror from within. So after Stalin dies, Zhukov becomes deputy defense minister. And very early on in that role,

he plays a very kind of dramatic role in the arrest of barrier. Leverente Barrier, the Soviet security chief, right? Who's seen by the other Soviet leaders as being a threat, as being a new Stalin, a new dictator, right?

So they decide to arrest barrier. And Zhukov is the main person who's deputed to actually carry out arrest, physical arrest. They lure barrier to a meeting. And then Zhukov enters the meeting with high-ranking Soviet officers and he grabs hold of

barrier and he arrests him because a few months later barrier is executed. But then a couple of years later, Zhukov becomes the Minister of Defence, yeah? And again, this is, we're talking about Zhukov's lacking service to his career. The reason he becomes Minister of Defence

in January in 1955 is because the previous incumbent, Bulganin, had stepped aside to become the new Soviet Prime Minister because Khhrushchev, the new party leader, had fallen out with Molenkov, who was the prime minister of time. So Mellenkov was ousted by Khoshov, and then Bougaini becomes a new prime minister, which creates a vacancy for Zhukov to become to Minister of Defense. And as Minister of Defense, Zhukov develops into being a very hugely popular.

It was always popular, but an even more popular figure in the Soviet Union. The problem is that creates Zhukov as a threat as far as Christchov, it said. of falls out with Zhukov and dismisses him as Minister of Defence and actually forces Zhukov to retire from the armed forces in 1950. Yeah, so he has this amazing life story in many ways. He has this amazing kind of like military career during the Second World War, but then he also had this hugely colourful post-war political career as well. Jukov's popularity and prestige meant that once again he'd been pushed from the stage of national politics. Following his forced retirement, Zhukov lived quietly.

writing his memoirs, spending time with his family and going on hunting and fishing trips. Old age and ill health eventually took their toll, and Georgi Zhukov, Marshal of the Soviet Union, died in April 1974 at the age of 77 in the Kremlin Hospital. This is a series about some of the great commanders of the Second World War, and by the close of the conflict, the nature of things meant that not just the Soviets but all the Allied armies had a raft of incredibly talented and successful leaders. How should we think about Zhukov? Is he the great genius of the Soviet war effort, or was he merely first among equals? When I started writing my biography of Zyukov or started on the work on it, I was skeptical,

right? As far as I was concerned, Zhukov was too much of a disciplinarian narrative, too much of a kick-ass commander, too vulgar. My preferred Soviet general of Second World War was Rokosovsky, who I saw as being much more benign, much more evil. intellectual, right? I mean, I must far caring about his truth. But during the course of writing he broke, my perspective changed, actually. I got more sympathetic towards

Joukov as I went along, which is the kind of thing that I think tends to happen to Baroqueville. So my disdain for his command style was balanced by my actual observation of all these qualities as a general and as a command. And these amazingly kind of like complex and

challenging, stressful conditions. It was just quite incredible. to observe Zhukov in action. I think he's probably first among equals. He's probably the best, very much first among equals. Certainly, you know, in Soviet times, also in contemporary Russia, Zhukov would be mostly considered to be

the top Soviet general of the Second World War. And, yeah, there were lots of people, myself would include, would say he has a good claim to be the top general of the whole of the Second World War, the greatest general of the Second World War. Because of what he did, the success, okay, he made mistakes,

It was very costly. But ultimately, you know, he won, called Instrumentally winning, the Arctic of victory in the greatest war in human history. It's very, very odd to argue against that. Yeah, if you're like handing out the accolades as to who the greatest jurors. You know, so the essay's biographer, well, I'm examining very, very close on, what he's doing on a day-by-day basis, how he's behaving, what he's saying, plans. And, okay, plans go wrong and mistakes are made. But, yeah, he's very, very impressive character to follow his action in detail. So in the end, I'm one of those who have come around to view that Zhukov was certainly the greatest Soviet general of the Second World War and possibly the greatest Allied general of the Sephard War as well.

Marshal Zhukov is surely the embodiment of the ultimate Soviet soldier. Humble, peasant beginnings, talent, discipline, drive, coolness under pressure, and importantly, unflinching loyalty. They all saw him ascend to the very pinnacle of military command. He was also, like all great commanders, I cannot overstate this. Lucky. He was in the right place at the right time. He won a victory at Calcán, as many of his comrades were struggling in the forests of Finland. Stalin's purge took the lives of thousands, but presented him with opportunities for advancement.

Zhukov was a commander forged in the white heat of military disaster. The Soviet Union needed vivacious. victory. He gave it to them. He imposed order on the most confusing and complex battlefields. He faced down the gravest crisis and turned it into victory. His reputation as the savior of Moscow in 1941 was reinforced by the campaigns he led at Stalingrad and Kursk and later. He achieved decisive victories. From there he expelled German forces from Ukraine and led the final assault on Berlin in 1945. He proved himself time and again.

His success, though, was paid for in blood. The men who served under him suffered terribly. He could be ruthless. He was willing to pursue victory at the heaviest of prices. Although, by the brutal measure of the Eastern Front, he was no worse than any of his contemporaries. He wasn't just called upon on the battlefield. He was just as useful in a political emergency.

Whether it was Stalin in the war years or Krischchev during the political vacuum in the 1950s, Zhukov was equal to the task. Even if, in the end, it was that capability that proved too much for both Stalin and Kruschev. Zhukov, I think, certainly has a claim to being the greatest Soviet general of the Second World War, possibly the greatest allied general of the entire conflict. He was, without a doubt, instrumental. in winning the greatest series of campaigns in human history. Well, that's it, folks.

Huge thanks to today's brilliant guest, Jeffrey Roberts, a minister's professor of history at University College Cork. His biography, Stalin's General, The Life of Georgi Zhukov, is Essential Reading. And he's just written another book. His latest work is Wartime Letters, Kathleen Harriman. Now, they are really interesting, and they include that fascinating eye witness account

of the victory parade, which I described at the start of the episode. This was the fifth in our commanders series. next Monday brings us up to the final episode where we're going to wrap up the series by discussing the best of the rest, the ones who didn't get a look in? Who are the other Second World War Commanders that you think should be on the list?

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