Dan Snow's History Hit - The History of Coronations

Episode Date: April 23, 2023

As preparations for the Coronation of King Charles III get underway, you're going to see words everywhere like 'anointing,' 'enthronement,' and 'crowning.' Despite how medical they sound, they are in fact ceremonial acts steeped in centuries of British history and tradition.There'll be talk of Edward the Confessor's crown, the absence of the controversial Koh-i-noor Diamond and something called the Stone of Scone. If you're excited to see history in action or wondering if it's worth the cost, this episode with Historian of the Monarchy Anna Whitelock is your A-Z guide to the regalia, pomp and ceremony of the Coronation. Produced by Mariana Des Forges and edited by Dougal PatmoreIf you want to get in touch with the podcast, you can email us at [e-mail], we'd love to hear from you!

Hi everybody, welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit. This is the coronation deep dive that all you history fans have been yearning for. The superficial tittle-tattle that you'll get in the mainstream media is thin fare for you history fans. And now we're going to get into it. I'm talking to Anna Whitelock, she's been on the podcast many times before, she's Professor of the History of Monarchy at City, University of London. She's Director of the Centre for the Study of Modern Monarchy. She is the world's leading expert. And we're going to talk

about it all in here. We're going to talk about the acclamation, the anointing, the crowning, the homage, the processions, the crown jewels. We're talking about the anointing spoon. You're going to love that one. This is a service that dates back, well, in terms of the use of oil, the use of crowns and staffs and scepters. Of course, it dates back to ancient history, the Egyptians, the ancient biblical times of the Middle East. But elements of the service did seem to coalesce around the rule of King Edgar, who in 973 had the most extraordinary crowning, one that really emphasised his rule over the whole of England, possibly the whole of Britain.

Edgar was crowned perhaps for the second time in a great ceremony. Then he went to Chester, where the Chronicle tells us that no fewer than six kings, from Scotland, Cumbria, perhaps Wales, rode Edgar on the River Dee as a symbol of their submission. Well, very sadly, Charles will not be rode around in central London when he is crowned king, but there are other elements of the service that do go all the way back to the Anglo-Saxons and King Edgar. There are few rituals on earth still being practiced today that are as ancient as the crowning of a new monarch of Britain and Northern Ireland. And here's Anna Whitelock to tell us all about it. Enjoy.

T-minus 10. Atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima. God save the king. No black-white unity till there is first and black unity. Never to go to war with one another again. And lift off, and the shuttle has cleared the tower. Anna Whitelock, thank you very much for coming back on the pod. Dan Snow, it's my pleasure.

Coronations, presumably since time immemorial, there's been a kind of anointing of a king, but I guess, does a coronation imply the kind of marriage of Christian and secular? Is that the point? Is it the ultimate fusion? It is. It's the ultimate fusion and the ultimate proclamation and declaration of authority. This one person having their authority confirmed in front of everyone else by essentially wearing the tallest, biggest hat, ultimately the crown. It dates back to, you know, we can think back to sort of 975 coronation of Edgar at Bath Abbey. And really, right from then on, coronations has

retained the basic structure to the one that we have today. There's been some odd variations at times. And actually, what we're left with, it's a mashup, which reflects the kind of hodgepodge of British history. So the changes in religion, the constitutional position of the monarchy, the relationship with England and Ireland and Scotland. And at various points, the oath has had to change when churches have become established or disestablished and countries have been drawn into the union or outside of it. So both within the formation of the United Kingdom and also, of course, England's place in the world, changes have happened in the coronation to reflect that.

I always think there's a lot of royal pageantry we're all used to. There's weddings and funerals, but the coronation is the one that's actually properly old. That's the one that you historians can get excited about, right? Because the marriages stuff is made up pretty recently, but some of these things go all the way back, do they? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, lots of the weddings and the funerals, they are a bit of a confection. They are to keep the public interested in the monarchy. And in the sense, they're a kind of invention of tradition. With the coronation, we genuinely have tradition, a ceremony that is centuries old. And so right back to the probable coronation of Harold Godwinson, but certainly the coronation of William the Conqueror,

coronations have taken place at Westminster Abbey and have remained there ever since, which is absolutely incredible. And although there's been a number of different versions of the ceremony, it's really from this document, the King's Book, the Liber Regalis of 1382, which we see as a sort of handbook to the coronation. And it's kind of manual to the ceremony. It tells everybody what has to happen when. And so the main kind of structure of the ceremony is as it always was. When we're all watching this on TV, or in the Abbey, probably if we're you, what is the oldest, oldest, oldest, most ancient bit that we think might have been done to every king and queen stretching deep back into the Anglo-Saxon period? So the crowning and fundamentally the anointing, this idea that holy oil is placed on this

individual that marks them out as appointed by God. And for all the sort of razzmatazz, the pomp and pageantry of the coronation, the anointing is absolutely at the heart of it. And it is that holy oil, that key moment where in days gone by, the monarch's clothes were sort of ripped off to create the openings to put the oil on the shoulders and the breast. And then after a time, special slits in the shirt were developed in order to put the oil on more easily. But that's really what it's all about. It's about the Holy Spirit, encaptured by this oil, coming down and marking out the prince to become a monarch. Let's now go to the first source that we have, kind of reliable source then that we have, this is the medieval period. And this explains how to coronate, how did they say we should

coronate a king? First of all, which monarch is this getting written up for? Well, there's various called recensions. I mean, we know there was the second recension for William the Conqueror, but we start to see a more detailed account in this Liber Regalis in the 14th century. And it sets out very clearly the parts of the ceremony which we're familiar with today. The first one, of course, being the recognition, the acclamation. Now, I think this is really interesting because, you know, we think today about the fact that we don't have a choice in the head of state as monarch. It's purely by succession. Of course, there's no election, but actually the ceremony starts with an acclamation

slash election. And it used to be very much the case that the expectation was that people gathered there had to signal their approval, their election of this prince to become their monarch. So the archbishop would ask the people if they are willing to accept this prince as king. And it's quite interesting for the coronation of King John that the Archbishop of Canterbury, Hubert Walter, was very, very keen to emphasise that King John was being elected at that moment by the people. And there was a clear sense that the Archbishop didn't want to be held responsible for crowning somebody who seemed to have rather questionable character. So yeah, it's an acclamation and election. Although many people today certainly will be watching and going,

he doesn't have my consent. I'm not assenting to anything. But regardless, that's what happens at the beginning of the coronation. But that's why you want to be in charge of the invite list for the coronation, right? So you just fill the building up with your mates and followers, and they will acclaim you. Well, exactly. And in William the Conqueror's coronation, and they were clearly a bit jittery, because of course, he was a conqueror. When they had those moments of shouts of acclamation, William the Conqueror's guard thought that it was shouts of revolt and rebellion and started burning down houses in the neighbourhood. So you're absolutely right. You've got to be sure about your audience there. It reminds me of the bit in Marriage where they say, if anyone has any reason why these two should not be lawfully joined, it's why you don't invite

your ex-boyfriend or girlfriend to your wedding, I suppose. So King Charles has crossed the guest list, so he's going to get acclaimed. We can be reasonably confident of that. Well, you'd hope so, but you never know. We might hear protesters outside this time who will be shouting and hollering. And actually, that could jar quite awkwardly at a moment like that. I mean, that would be the moment to protest because it would be a really quite profound moment if when that is being read out in the Abbey, if we heard protests outside. Now, I'm not suggesting that's going to happen, but it certainly would be interesting. I should say, I mean, we talked about started the service beginning with that election and acclamation moment, which is then followed by the monarch taking the oath. There's prior to that a procession and the nature of that procession has changed over time.

So we used to see a procession from the Tower of London through to Westminster Hall. And on the eve of the coronation, the monarch would be at the tower, the sort of fortress of the realm, was regarded as being quite vulnerable on the eve of the coronation because it was the sort of last moment before they were formally recognised as monarch. So they would process from the tower, but on the eve of the coronation, they would create new knights of the bath. And the custom would be that these young men would plunge naked into a bath, emerge, kiss the monarch's shoulder. And of course, that was one of the various ceremonies that had to be changed somewhat with the accession of Mary I, because they didn't think it was appropriate for young naked men to be plunging into the bath. So that position was deputized. But yeah, so we used

to see up until James II, we used to see the procession from the tower to Westminster. And then that was changed by James II in 1685. And then of course, later, we saw this ceremony and procession from Buckingham Palace to Westminster, as we see today. So amazingly, they've announced that procession, and the king and his wife, Camilla the Queen, are not going to use the big golden stake coach that was made for George III, are they? Because it's apparently, the suspension's rubbish, and it's a bit jiggly and jolty. And there's this amazing diamond jubilee coach with air conditioning and proper suspension. They're favouring that one. No, no, no. A bit of both. A bit of both. You're in part right because the new

one will be taking them to the coronation, the king and the queen. But on the way back, they will have the sort of fairy tale, most uncomfortable coach, the golden coach, which looks like a crown on wheels, which will be incredibly uncomfortable, very hot, very sticky. And of course, the king has a bad back by all accounts. So that will not be a pleasant journey back to the palace. In terms of that procession, in times past, you'd see every single family member, the emphasis might be on the military, perhaps religious,

there might be a bunch of old dukes and barons wandering around. Do you get the impression that is Charles going to try and modernise, if not the oath itself and stuff, but some of the mood music around it, some of the visuals around this day. Well, certainly we know that the coronation procession is shorter than it was for the late queen. Now, some people would perhaps say that's him kind of hedging his bets. I mean, the procession was always about letting as many people as possible see the monarch. And in centuries gone by, this was about, again, acclamation, letting people see the monarch as a way of asserting their authority. And of course, when the procession was from the Tower of London in the 14th century, the procession would go all through like Cornhill, Fleet Street, all through

the East End. I mean, it would be a huge procession. Now it's much, much shorter from Buckingham Palace to Westminster and then back again. So yeah, it's shorter arguably either because Charles thinks that people might not be bothered to watch for too long. The ceremony itself is much shorter, but also maybe because they think not as many people, perhaps as line the streets for the Queen, will be there for the King. Before we get to the oath, what's he wearing? Isn't there a couple of crown changes? There's a couple of costume changes. I mean, the king could have been wearing silt stockings, a tunic. That's the traditional outfit. And a shirt, which, as I suggested, used to be something that was ripped off for the anointing and then later had various slits and buttons designed in

it for when the oil would be put on the monarch. The king has said he's going to be wearing military dress. So one of the questions which sort of geeks like me are pondering is, how are they going to get the bit sorted out for the anointing? Are they going to open his jacket or how's that all going to work? So that's something to watch. But there are various changes of robe. But as you say, there are also two crowns used. Well, of course, there's three if you include the crown for Queen Camilla. So the crown that will be used for the crowning for the big moment will be St. Edward's crown. Incredibly heavy. The Queen, just a year or so before her death, sort of was brought back face to face with the crown and was just remembering how uncomfortable it was. So that will be worn

for the moment of crowning. But then as the monarch, as Charles leaves the Abbey, he'll be wearing the Imperial State Crown, which is the crown that will then be worn for the balcony appearance. And he's then worn for, for example, the state opening of Parliament. So that's the crown that will be used. And for Camilla, who of course will also be crowned, there's been 17 other Queen Consorts crowned. Who was the first, Dan? Pub quiz question. Okay, okay. I have no idea. Eleanor of Aquitaine. Oh, of course. He loved that. He loved Eleanor, didn't he?

Eleanor of Aquitaine, Henry II in 1154. And since then, there has been 17 queens consort. They used to come behind the king in the ceremony and in the procession. Now their place is reversed and they are only anointed in two places on the head and the breast. You're listening to Dan Snow's History. We're talking about the crowning, the coronating of a new monarch. More after this. of a new monarch. More after this. We're about to witness the first coronation at Westminster Abbey in 70 years. And Gone Medieval from History Hit is your perfect companion for the event.

From the earliest English coronation records. To what the Royal Regalia used in the ceremony means. From the surprising origins of the recognition part of the service. To the lavish banquets that took place afterwards. I'm Matt Lewis. And I'm Dr Kat Jarman. And on Gone Medieval in April, we'll be exploring the medieval origins of this feast of pageantry. We'll try to pick out the key moments for you to watch and trace their origins back into the mists of time. We've got some great guests and fascinating topics

to lift the lid on a moment when, let's face it, people all around the world will have gone medieval. Subscribe and follow Gone Medieval from History Hit wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Matt Lewis. And I'm Dr. Alan Orjanaga. To be continued... kings and popes, who were rarely the best of friends, murder, rebellions, and crusades. Find out who we really were by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. and the queen's crown does not have the coin or the controversial diamond that had a storied and some would say cursed life passed around various empires in south asia ended up being taken and

presented to queen victoria that's been dropped out of her crown has it well it's not being dropped out of the crown that crown is not being worn the The crown that is being worn is Queen Mary's crown. And they're saying the palace that this is all about sustainability and efficiency by not remaking a crown, which is fair play for a bit of spin. I think it's more about also not getting in broad into the discussions about wearing the crown with the Koh-i-Noor. What we will expect to see, though, in St. Mary's crown is there has been some adjustments to include some stones from the jewellery of Queen Elizabeth. So there is a sense of the late queen present in Camilla's crown. The image of the queen being crowned, I think, is a really significant one. And of course, many people wouldn't have imagined it would have ever happened. So the thing about the crown jewels is they're not as old as the service itself,

because there was the short Republican experiment in Britain. Oliver Cromwell sold about the crown jewels is they're not as old as the service itself, because there was the short Republican experiment in Britain. Oliver Cromwell sold off the crown jewels and they nearly all melted down, which includes, we think, perhaps a crown that dates back to Edward the Confessor, don't we? So all the stuff they're wearing is actually, in terms of coronation history, not super new. It's all from the 1660s. It's all from the 1660s. Exactly, totally, 1660s. So it's a remake of the old Coronation Regalia, which, as you rightly said, was melted down at the time of Charles I's execution and the Commonwealth. However, there's two exceptions, actually.

Well, one exception, certainly. Do you know what the exception was? I think it's super weird, isn't it? Isn't it like a little spoon or something? It's the Coronation Spoon that was kept by one of charles the first household whether it was to kind of eat their yogurt or whatever but they kept it and then at the restoration returned it so that is the oldest piece of the crown jewels it's used for the oil of course for the oil for the anointing another quiz question for you i love this this fact. There's one piece of

regalia that wasn't revived and recreated after the restoration. Do you know what it is? No, no. That's why I've invited you on this podcast, Anna. I just love this fact. It was St. Edward's comb. Comb? Comb. It was made of, it's thought, ivory or bone. And it was basically used to rearrange the monarch's hair after the anointing, of course, because it could get a little bit disheveled. So you would have the comb to kind of smooth out the hair. But it was decided that that perhaps wasn't totally necessary at the restoration. So we won't see Charles's hair being combed and

rearranged. Imagine trying to comb Charles II's hair. Wow. Okay, so we've got some of the most famous and valuable bits of jewellery on planet Earth. They'll be on the head, but let's get back to the words and the symbolism. We've had the acclamation. What's the next important part of the service? So after the acclamation, it is the oath-taking. And this is really the only bit of the ceremony that is required by law. And the oath itself has evolved over the centuries because it's had to reflect different religious changes, for example. So a lot of the coronation oath dates back to 1689 and the various promises that had to be made at the Glorious Revolution to ensure that the Protestant church was defended.

So essentially, the king promises to uphold the laws of the land, but also the Protestant reformed religion. But even that has had to change at different points. has had to change at different points. So over the years, when, for example, the king or the monarch became head of state of countries, former colonies, where the premier was a Catholic, the oath would be changed to make sure that it would make clear that it was Protestant religion in the United Kingdom, and wasn't necessarily saying it had to be Protestant religion in all those other countries where the monarch became head of state. We also saw the oath had to be changed at different points when we saw the union with Scotland, the formation of Great Britain, and then the United Kingdom. And then later when countries became part of the Commonwealth attached to the UK. And then,

of course, when, for example, India became independent, the oath had to be changed for the coronation after that. So there's actually been quite a lot of changes. And that's what I was suggesting, that it in a way demonstrates this real hodgepodge of British history and the various comings and goings within the orbit of the crown that you can see in the oaths over time. Have they released a text for the oath this time? Not yet. Do you think it'll have changed? It can't fundamentally change. I mean, certainly he will need to uphold the laws of the United Kingdom. He will need to uphold the Protestant religion. But I think there may well be some phrasing which also adds a sense of respecting other religions too, because much was made of a comment that Charles made back in the 1990s in an interview with Jonathan Dimbleby, I think,

where he said he wanted to be defender of the faiths. And people were saying, oh, is that going to be somehow a change in his coronation oath? How can that be? I think that was over-interpreted, but I think Charles certainly understands that whilst he is head of the Church of England, he also understands the need to respect and actually champion other faiths too. And I think he will want that reflected in the ceremony. And then whilst he's taking this oath, is he sitting on the wooden chair built for Edward I and under it, the famous Stone of Destiny? Tell me about the chair and the stone. The stone. So the chair is St. Edward's chair. I mean, the chair is incredibly old and it was, of course, designed to hold that famous stone. Yeah, the Stone of Destiny. It's, of course, very close to the

hearts of the Scots, was snatched from the Scots, and then returned to Edinburgh Castle in the 1990s, I think. It was something that John Major agreed could go back temporarily, or at least in the interim between coronations, when it is then brought back to go once again under the coronation chair. Right, so yeah, the Stone of Schoon, it was at Schoon Palace in Perthshire, and it's where Scottish monarchs were traditionally crowned. So its inclusion in the British coronation reflects that sort of fusion of England and Scotland, the Union. Exactly. I mean, the last monarch to have a Scottish coronation was Charles II. I mean, the monarchs would have, after James I, they would have a coronation in England, coronation in Scotland, and then the two came together. And

again, this is part of the evolution of the United Kingdom and so on. So yes, now it's very much the symbol of the fact that this is the crowning of the Scottish monarch, or the monarch that used to be solely King of Scotland, as well as now King of England too. Used to be solely King of Scotland, as well as now King of England too. So we've got him sitting on a 13th century, I think, chair with a gigantic slab of rock underneath it. I mean, this country is so insane. I love it. I mean, they're refurbing, they're cleaning, they're gilding or regilding the chair. I mean, people sort of say, well, could the coronation take place anywhere else? I think purely on the part of just not being able to move that chair. I mean, it's so, so old. I think it will never go anywhere else, the coronation,

and nor perhaps should it. I mean, it's been at Westminster Abbey for more than a thousand years. It is very much the theatre really of monarchy and the ultimate production is the coronation. So he said the oath. Everyone's happy. He's sworn an an oath are we up to the anointing or the crowning next yeah it's quite a long thing so coronation oath and then yes we go to the anointing this is a really really special part of the coronation it's really the heart of the coronation it's where handel's anthem zad the Priest, is sung by the choir. And yeah, really sacred. It used to be that this would be covered up, this moment,

with a canopy of gold cloth being held around and over the top of the monarch so that people couldn't see what was happening during the anointing. It's thought that this time we may see it. So who's to say? The difference here, or the groundbreaking news on the oil is, you'll be glad to hear it's vegan. Crikey. I wonder what used to be in it. That's interesting. And then after that, are we at the crowning yet? Yeah, yeah. You're almost there. Well done. You've hung in there. So I mean, you may think this is going on and on, but actually the coronation is going to be much, much quicker than coronations of the past. So all of this is going to take place in an hour and a half,

which may well be at least an hour too long for many people. But yes, we're now at the moment where the monarch will be, Charles will be enthroned. And so we see him crowned. So it's the big moment. And the crown, what is the significance of a hat, of a crown? If the oil is about religion, about God, is the crown something more secular? What's going on there?

It's about the guy who's got the largest hat on, the tallest hat. I mean, it is a marker of authority. It represents his power. It represents his authority. It represents the fact that he has won out over, in the past, of course, other warring nobles. So he's crowned, having, of course, been dressed. And here we have a change of clothes. He's wearing, very likely, a spectacular cloth of gold called the super tunica,

which is placed on him, ready for the crowning, but then, of course, receiving all the other coronation regalia items and this is where it feels like it's a bit of a hodgepodge again of just all this stuff that's given to him so the armills which are golden bracelets representing sincerity and wisdom also the orb of course which most people are with, the idea of a golden globe topped by a cross, the idea of God's authority actually above all things, the coronation ring. And that signifies a sort of marriage of the monarch to the country, which in many ways this coronation is. It's a kind of marriage, monarch and his people. And then he receives the two scepters. monarch and his people. And then he receives the two scepters. And then, as you say, finally,

the crown on his head. And so then sort of prepares to switch to the lighter imperial state crown, which he wears for the rest of the service. And it's probable that he'll then have changed into a robe of purple velvet. So actually quite a lot of costume changes in this. And this is why, make no mistake, they will be practicing this at Buckingham Palace, at Clarence House, and then at the Abbey. You don't want to get this wrong. And of course, in coronations in the past, things have gone wrong. That's what's quite spectacular about this. Queen Victoria, she was told by one of her bishops that the ceremony was finished before it actually was. And then she had to kind of go back and sit down again. The coronation ring didn't go on her finger properly. I mean, there really has been these kind of mishaps. And if you think about it,

that was before the coronation was broadcast. So yes, these things happened, but they weren't watched all over the country in the world, which explains why it was a pretty big decision for the late queen to have her coronation broadcast. Because literally any small mishap not only will be captured full time, but then people start to read things into, is this a bad omen for the reign? And of course, now we've got the prospect of it being streamed all over the world, every kind of moment captured, people zooming in on any sort of facial expressions, things drop. So they will be practising every single moment of this

so that Charles doesn't put the wrong outfit on, that, you know, the right crown is given to him, or the crown, in fact, is put on the right way. For one of the monarchs, the crown was put on back to front. All these things will be being practised at the moment all over the place. The sceptre is an amazing, I mean, ancient Egyptian pharaohs had kind of staffs of office or scepters.

I mean, it's the symbolism of the crown, the things they're holding. The sword, of course, is really obvious. They're reflecting the monarch's ultimate job. So often the pastor's kind of protector of his people. The symbolism in the objects carried is so powerful. They are. But I think the interesting question is, how does this play now? How are people reading this and watching this and taking the meaning from it? Is this just an old ceremony that is fascinating because we're seeing the coronations of the past being reenacted when those monarchs really did have

significant power and authority. And is this just this odd kind of dressing up moment for the king, or does it represent something? When people see a man crowned, put literally on a stage above us, crowned, anointed, and then with all the orb, the scepter, the swords, and so on, how is that going to chime? Is that going to chime as something that unifies us and we see as kind of reassuring and as a sort of orderly progression? Or are we going to see it as just fundamentally out of touch, chiming so badly with all the things that we now hold to matter and support in our society, which in many ways are absolutely not represented in the coronation, which of course, at his heart, is all about hierarchy, privilege, exclusivity, wealth. It's all about people not being included.

It's all about people not being equal. And I think that's why for all the talk about the events around the ceremony, about trying to include people, have these big get togethers, the heart of it is entirely exclusive and elitist. I'm Matt Lewis. And I'm Dr. Eleanor Janaga. And in Gone Medieval, we get into the greatest mysteries. The gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research from the greatest millennium in human history. We're talking Vikings, Normans, kings and popes who were rarely the best of friends, murder, rebellions

and crusades. Find out who we really were by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit wherever you get your podcasts. And very religious in a country where, depending on the question you ask, a plurality or a majority of people are not practicing religious. You've looked at the detail on what's been released. We've already talked about the Koh-i-Noor diamond being left behind. We've talked about a shorter route. You've already talked about the Koh-i-Noor diamond being left behind. We've talked about a shorter route. You've talked about possible word changes in the oath. As a royal watcher, as a historian,

does it tell you this is a monarchy that is rather nervous about some of the issues you've just raised? I mean, are they worried about how this is going to go down? Yeah, there is absolutely no doubt that this is a moment where those in the palace, those supporters of Charles will be incredibly nervous. They will be watching the mood of the country. They will be very alive to the fact that right now the Guardian have been doing a sustained investigation into crown finances, questions about links with slavery,

questions more and more about the kind of accountability and transparency of the monarchy, the fact that the monarch, the royal family don't pay taxes, how much the royal family are worth. And small things are being taken out like the presentation of gold ingots to the monarch, because you know, this would be seen as not least look very awkward at a time of sort of cost of living crisis where actually gold is being given to the monarch that's the least of it in a way i mean this is a family that has so much unaccounted wealth and also significant power and influence i mean we've now really beginning to understand the extent to which legislation has been changed or vetoed by the monarchy, by the royal family over time.

There is such a thing as sovereign immunity, that certain pieces of legislation don't apply to crown estates. I mean, just the very fact that, one, the monarch can't be tried in court, they're above the law, that's what we're all signing up to. Also, the fact that the monarch, the royal household and the palaces, they don't sign up to the Equalities Act, for example, and Equalities legislation. There's some really, really problematic issues that whereas before people didn't really know or didn't really wonder about, partly because of respect for the Queen, people are now beginning to go, well, hold on a second. need to go, well, hold on a second. And so I think, I mean, to go back to the start of our conversation and the start of the ceremony, where there is that acclamation or election, where people are asked to

give their assent and consent. I think for me, there's a growing sense that people aren't giving an informed consent or assent, that people don't know so much about the power and influence and wealth of the monarchy and therefore in a 21st century democracy is this okay and yes it's only ceremony but is anything but idle ceremony i'm not sure there used to be gold ingots delivered to the king that's hysterical there's lots and lots of things that have been taken out of the coronation ceremony so we haven't touched on the final bit if if you like, of the ceremony, which is where homage was paid to the king. Felty and homage, where all the peers, all the dukes of the realm would basically pledge their loyalty and service. Then representatives among them in the years that followed to try and streamline the ceremony. Now, we're not sure whether in fact

that will remain the case at all. We may not even see any of that taking place. So this is an attempt to, well, some would say modernise the ceremony. You really can't do much. All you can do is cut bits out so it doesn't perhaps jar as much as it otherwise might. Gosh, so actually, while the world's media, most people will be talking about the great historical continuities here, what's quite striking is how much they've attempted to change. Yeah, they've tried to turn down the volume of things. So yeah, I mean, I think the idea of Inga or Wedge of Gold being presented, which was presented to the Queen for her coronation, that's not going to happen. What I do think is interesting, though, is the fact that always, or for a very long time,

monarchs have been aware that coronations are costly. Queen Victoria, for example, very aware of the cost of the coronation and how it might be perceived. She ordered the extra rations of beef be distributed to the workhouses and prisons to try and sort of improve the optics. George VI, for example, ordered that a special welfare payment be made to the unemployed. So there have been moments in the past or monarchs in the past that have tried to address the very awful optics of a very rich family being privileged and their event being paid for by the people who in many cases don't have anywhere near enough money and are really struggling. So in that sense, the tensions are age old too. Wow. It's very interesting to hear that there's nothing new about the controversies surrounding these huge guilt-edged

events. Yeah, I mean, I think that is perhaps one of the continuities that how long it is, what you say, making sure the language is right, making sure you kind of try and include as many people as possible and not exclude unnecessarily others. I mean, these are all the questions that have been asked at different points. So although there have been these texts on how to do coronation, everyone has had to be different. And the one that we're going to see in just a few weeks time will be age old, but also will have some firsts in it. And what exactly they'll be, we'll have to watch to find out. Anna Whitelock, thank you so much for coming on. What will you be doing on the day? I will be talking and watching the coronation and trying to inform people about what's going on

and get a sense of how much it's actually mattering to people or how are people perceiving it all. Is it important or is it the last great hurrah of a monarchy that perhaps is starting to lose its position with its people. Interesting stuff. Thank you very much for coming on. Pleasure. you