Dan Snow's History Hit - The Royal Marines

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

Members of this elite unit - formed in 1664 under Charles II - were present at the American Revolution, the Battle of Trafalgar, the Crimean War, both World Wars and even joined Shackleton on his expeditions in Antarctica. It's quicker to list the few countries the Marines haven't been deployed to!To trace a potted history of the Royal Marines through its 360-year legacy, Dan visits HMRB Portsmouth to record a special episode from inside their fabled port cellar with Brigadier Chris Haw MC and John Rawlinson, Vice President of the Royal Marines Historical Society.Produced by Mariana Des Forges and edited by Dougal PatmoreEnjoy unlimited access to award-winning original documentaries that are released weekly and AD-FREE podcasts. Sign up HERE for 50% off for 3 months using code ‘DANSNOW’.We'd love to hear from you - what do you want to hear an episode on? You can email the podcast at [e-mail] can take part in our listener survey here.

The bombardment was the heaviest of the war thus far. Big guns and mortars rained down shells on the strong defensive position. The enemy had entrenched themselves thoroughly. They were hugely talented engineers. They dug trenches, covered them with logs and earth. They built bunkers. It was a death trap. Any assault would find itself in a bewildering maze of defences.

So the British were taking no chances. The bombardment lasted eight hours. Thirty tonnes of shot and shell were fired in all. Defensive structures were smashed. And at 4pm, the men were ordered to take the ruined fort. The British commanders expecting that all the opposition would be killed or dazed. There'd be no resistance. With fixed bayonets, the British advanced...

into a terrible trap. This was the British assault on the Gate Par, a Maori hillfort in New Zealand. It was attacked in 1864. The British force was made up of some soldiers from the army, but the majority were sailors. Royal Marines, in fact. Men trained to be as capable at sea as they were on land. This year, that remarkable unit, the Royal Marines, is celebrating their 360th birthday, making them one of the oldest military units in the world. I chose this pretty obscure, really utterly forgotten episode from their history, partly because I visited the site and was so struck by the story, but partly because I think the attack on Gate Par symbolises their astonishing history of serving all over the world

in such a galaxy of different settings. On that day, as it happens, the Maori bloodily repulsed the British, although the Maori defenders slipped away that night to avoid a second assault. But I could have chosen hundreds of other engagements. There were Royal Marines present at the mighty siege of Quebec in 1759 as the British tried to wrest the capital of New France from the French king. There were Royal Marines present when the Summer Palace was smashed outside Beijing in 1860. There were Royal Marines that carried out daring strikes against the Russian Navy in the Baltic in 1919. It was Royal Marines who occupied Iceland in 1940. There were Royal Marines who in our lifetime

fought so bravely in Helmand in Afghanistan. In fact, one of my strange hobbies is trying to work out or trying to compile a list really of where and when the Royal Marines have fought and served over their long history. And I got John Rawlinson to help. He's one of my illustrious guests today. He's the Vice President of the Royal Marines Historical Society. He's an expert on the Corps. He told me that the only countries on Earth at the moment where he couldn't find a record of Royal Marine operations or deployments, as some of them

are just training deployments or even the band service going, but anyway, the only countries he couldn't find Royal Marine engagement with were Andorra, Bolivia, Kyrgyzstan, Liechtenstein, Paraguay, Uzbekistan, and the Vatican City. And I'd love any listeners to write in and tell us exactly why we're wrong. Let's try and complete that list. For this podcast, I want to look back at the long history of the Royal Marines. John Rawlinson was kind enough to join me, but I was also lucky enough to have a legend of the Royal Marines, a serving legend, Brigadier Christopher Hoare. He won a military cross while serving for the Royal Marines. He's currently a very senior Marine. Until recently, he was Colonel Commandant at the Commando Training Centre. He's now Senior Responsible Owner of the

Commando Force Programme, which deals with the transformation and modernisation of the Royal Marines. And I met up with these two remarkable gentlemen in a very special place, suitable for a momentous chat. Enjoy. T-minus 10. The Thomas bomb dropped on Hiroshima. God save the king. No black-white unity till there is first and black unity.

Never to go to war with one another again. And lift off, and the shuttle has cleared the tower. I'm just walking through a corner of His Majesty's Naval Base in Portsmouth. I've come round to a little cul-de-sac, and there's some very steep stairs leading down to a cellar. Let's climb down them. There's no headroom here. Fine for Yana, difficult for me. And I've just entered the Royal Marine Corps cellar. Now the Royal Marines obviously need somewhere they can stash all their port. Otherwise, what's the point of being a Royal Marine? And I'm looking down here at these wonderful shelves

stretching off for miles, absolutely stacked with port. Sometimes, historically, cases will be bought for sons by their proud, formal Royal Marine dads, and they mature so they could be drunk on special occasions for Royal Marines. And the Royal Marines have many special occasions, as you'd expect from an organisation

endowed with such fabulous victories throughout its long history. I've come in here, and in the central area occasions, as you'd expect from an organisation endowed with such fabulous victories throughout its long history. I've come in here and in the central area of this brilliant little wine cellar that I've just discovered, we've got a table laden with artefacts from Royal Marines history. This is very exciting. And standing by that table, I've got Chris and I've got John. How's it going, guys? Really good, Dan. Good to see you. It's a privilege to be here. I've never actually been in here before in my 28 years in the Royal Marines, so I'm loving it. Do you think you've ever had anyone sent down to get something for you down here? I think I may have drunk a couple of bottles of port from down here, but yes.

Tell me, what have we got on this table, John? We've got 360 years of Royal Marines history, right back to a silver officer's button from the earliest days, to some of the things that the Royal Marines of the Commando Force were today. We've got a beret here. We've got a beautiful presentation, sword, medals, portrait, I cannot wait to get into it. But firstly, coming to you Chris, as a serving Royal Marine, you must feel the weight of that history and also your job at the moment is to preserve that history and ensure that the Marines remain relevant and remain ready for centuries to come. Absolutely,

well it's a real privilege to be here this morning, to be part of this historic conversation, but as you say, to talk about the way we're going to move into the future. And it's an exciting time to be a Royal Marine and part of the commando force because we're undergoing a sort of generational transformation, really, in answer to some of the threats that have emerged from our adversaries out there. And I would also say that this is really the end of our transformation out of fighting in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan into a much more integrated sort of maritime special operations force. We can be employed across the spectrum of operations. So in high-end war fighting, if you like, against an adversary that has a similar capability,

we would be going behind enemy lines, as we like to say, to neutralise strategic targets, to effectively strategic raiding, which is quite similar to some of the history that we'll be talking about here today from the Second World War. While we're here, quickly, Marines and Commandos, what's the difference? How are they similar? So a Commando is effectively a qualification, so you have to pass a certain number of tests to become a commando and own your Green Beret. Being a Royal Marine is part of an organisation, so the Royal Marines Band is part of the Royal Marines. There are different services, so the General Service, the Band Service and you could argue the Special Boat Service.

So being a commando is a thing, it's a standard that you have to reach and it's what we would expect for people to be able to conduct commando-style operations. Brilliant, okay. I'll put this out to both of you. Why do you need Royal Marines? You've got sailors' sail ships. Don't you just get soldiers to clamber off onto the shore or enemy ports and get going on the land?

What's the point of a Royal Marine? Yeah, that was a question that was asked in Parliament in about 1800, and the answer is still true today. There is a difference between otters and foxes. Landing on distant shores is very, very difficult. Landing where you're not expected, where you want to be on a distant shore is almost impossible. This is a very particular military discipline. Do you feel like an otter? Couldn't have put it better myself. Apart from I wouldn't describe myself as an otter.

Not bad as an otter. Slippery character. No. Yes, I agree with what John's just said, but there are many militaries who have armies that go to sea, and I've worked with them, and I'm not going to necessarily go into who they are, but it's really complicated to overlay army and navy together,

whereas we are an integral part of the navy, and that really helps. Even after decades of boating and messing about and rowing, I'm astonished at the difficulties you get into when you bring a boat near the shore. It is just, it's a nightmare. Only the other day, me and my kids were involved in a rescue situation which involved ropes around propellers,

wind blowing onto rocks and sandbag you know tide so i mean you guys have got skills operating in that the literal environment we should call it it's really hard work isn't it it is we do try not to get ropes wrapped around propellers was that the coxswain's fault was it yeah yes yeah my uh my 12 year old daughter uh but yeah it does require you you're, it is one of the most dangerous environments. And, you know, if the Navy needs to dominate the maritime, the littoral is one of the most complex environments to work in because it's shallow water. It's very complicated. Let's go all the way back to the beginning. Was there a sense that Britain in the 17th

century needed these specialist troops who could operate from ships to the shore? There was indeed. Back to 1664. The Marines have been part of the Navy since 1664. We can go even further back and, you know, the Saxon kings had soldiers on ships, but they weren't Marines. There's a funny political need in 1664. The king is back. Parliament doesn't quite trust him, won't let him raise regiments. His soldiers are in guards or they run overseas garrisons, him won't let him raise regiments his soldiers are in guards or they run overseas garrisons but he can have soldiers in the navy so it's a strange political twist of fate that says we need to raise these specific regiments but what changes on the 28th of october 1664 is something that's very clear these are soldiers that are being raised for service at sea for the first time ever

they're specialists and they're also paid for by the Navy for the first time. And that holds true. I brought along a silver button today. This one's actually from 1755, worn by Marine officers between 1755 and 1761. One of only two known to survive in the world, but bears the badge of the Lord High Admiral, and that really gives the link of the Royal Marines

to the Royal Navy. Very proud integral part of the Navy Navy right back to those early days. And you know me so well, you brought in a seven years war button. You're my friend for life after that. So that would have been worn by a Marine on one of His Majesty's ships and they were, the Marines in that war, we won't go into it too much, but they were operating way inland in North America, for example, up towards Quebec, which is miles from the sea, hundreds of miles from the sea. Yeah, amazing. We'll talk a little bit later about Marines and battalions

and small detachments and how they come from ships, but that's right at the heart of what being a Marine is, is being able to deploy where the Navy needs you. It might be on the coast, it might be miles inland. But in the early days, not only did the Royal Marines look after naval officers, we were also up in the rigging as the sharpshooters and there's a read across to 4-2 commando now who do maritime sniping

so maybe not in the rigging but maybe in the kind of the helicopter providing overwatch for any boarding operations so we are still an integral part of that maritime force Speaking about quality of people and individual Marines who've done remarkable things tell me about this miniature here next to this wonderful sword. So this is Lieutenant John Playdell.

He was a relatively young officer in Nelson's Navy. He was on board HMS Phoenix in 1805. And Dibon was the French ship. Very classic small ships action. The two frigates up against each other for 45 minutes, literally boarding parties swaying backwards and forwards all the other marine officers were killed most of the naval officers were killed there was only the captain of ship left standing and played all play bill then led a

small party of Marines on board the died on and they were able to literally turn sway the battle there was a huge cannon on board died and that was about to sink Phoenix it didn't fire. Dyden did the job beautifully in terms of saving the day. As a reward, he was presented with this fabulous presentation sword from General Picton, who we'll all know from Waterloo fame. He was killed at Waterloo.

Now this is a absolutely gorgeous sword. It's got a wonderful lion head embossed on the hilt. It's got a thank you to Lieutenant Pladle inscribed on it as well. Would this have been used, do you think, designed to be used or was this just a ceremony? Oh yes, this is a fighting sword. This looks like a presentation sword but when you look at the blade it is a proper fighting sword of the period. Wow, amazing. Let's come down here and ask about this one here. What's going on here? So this is the very latest Royal Marine Officer's helmet plate. There are only eight of those been made so far and this was made for the king's coronation ah

and what's so significant about it is the symbols on there tell you all about royal marines history so you have the anchor represents part of the navy the globe they've served around the world yeah there's so many battle honors that we couldn't fit them on i'm not being arrogant but that was the the genesis of the globe so effectively had battle owners around the world. Yeah there's so many battle honours that we couldn't fit them on. I'm not being arrogant but that was the genesis of the globe so effectively we had battle honours around the globe. And you get Gibraltar and the Laurel Reefs. Gibraltar, really important moment in Royal Marines history, probably the first time they have this huge strategic impact. 1704 they capture the rock of the Gibraltar working with the Dutch Marines at that time, or the forerunners of the Dutch Marines, capture the rock, it's laid siege for eight or nine months, and that really changes European history

and the influence of British sea power in the Mediterranean forever. And Britain has held onto the Rock of Gibraltar in southern Spain ever since. Indeed. Remarkable. And with Gibraltar, do we know if it was an opposed landing? Are they charging into gunfire, or is it a matter of landing on enemy coast, securing a position,

and then defending it against counterattack? It's both, actually. So Gibraltar comes a year after the attempted landings at Vigo Bay, which had not gone well. We learned something over the course of that year. And really, Gibraltar is a good example of manoeuvre from the sea as opposed to assault from the sea. So the Spanish knew we're coming. We searched the coastline, we probe the coastline, we find

a cave that isn't protected and actually the boats containing the Marines managed to land at this cave and climb up on top of the cliff before anybody realizes they're there and then that's where the fighting starts. So but the whole point of this campaign really is land where you're not expected. This isn't armoured assault, this is manoeuvre, get somewhere where they don't expect you to land. And that's exactly the way we'd operate these days. We would never land on an opposed landing again. I think that was just in the Second World War, it was just out of complete necessity. You know, total war had to get onto the beaches of Normandy, but we would never plan to land where

there's an opposed landing. And we would always look for the place where we weren't expected. And to this day, we maintain our vertical assault capabilities, we call it. So if you've ever run up the rock, as most sailors and Marines have done, if they've visited Gibraltar, it is quite a long way up and it's really exposed. And to climb up it and be able to fight up it is pretty significant. A Royal Marine once said to me, go where the enemy ain't. That's the one. It's a good place. Which is a good thing to do. The Brits famously got everywhere and no unit would have experienced more foreign shores than the Royal Marines, surely. You posed a question to me a little while ago when we spoke. I did, I challenged you. About how many countries have Royal Marines not fought in. I've got six left.

Oh really? Yes. Of the 200 members of the United Nations, there are only six nations Royal Marines haven't either fought or sent the band service to. We don't fight everybody, they do all the things as well. Good. Get that band service out to Uzbekistan. Stat. It's interesting talking about Gibraltar, that's a classic littoral operation of fleet lands men and they capture an important feature on the shore.

It feels like the Royal Marines now are moving back to that, partly under your leadership. You know, a lot of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now going back towards that more traditional role. Yes, I think we're going back to our World War II commando routes and we'll be conducting more strategic tasking rather than landing en masse and then trying to fight through an objective.

And I think in order to do that, as we've learned significantly from Ukraine, you have to disperse to survive. So we're really relying on quite small teams of people who are specially skilled, who can land sort of literally under the radar on multiple different access points and then go in and conduct a strategic level operation. So yes, I would say that's the kind of thing that the commandos used to do, go and blow up a railway line or something to disturb a resupply route, and that's the kind of thing that we will be doing, but on a more strategic level, I would say. You're listening to Dan Snow's History. We're talking about the Royal Marines,

360 years old this year. More coming up. years old this year. More coming up. I'm Matt Lewis. And I'm Dr. Alan Orjanaga. And in Gone Medieval, we get into the greatest mysteries. The gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research from the greatest millennium in human history. We're talking Vikings, Normans,

Kings and Popes, who were rarely the best of friends. Murder, rebellions, and crusades. Find out who we really were by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. Actually, Gibraltar, I've often wondered whether the Gibraltar name is a sort of clever reference to the fact that the Royal Marines were very, very busy in Gibraltar during the American Revolutionary War as well, defending it from Spanish assault. Indeed, but more busy in America proper, actually. You see Royal Marines on the ships, they're off the coast,

they're doing the siege things from the coast, the blockade from the coast, and actually you also get two Royal Marine battalions ashore as well. There's a Royal Marine battalion at Bunker Hill. Their intervention at Bunker Hill is very decisive and actually it turns the sway of the battle. It's really important. Bunker Hill tends to get forgotten. It's a British victory at the start of that war. We know the end of the war, of course,

doesn't go how we would like it, but Bunker Hill is a stunning British victory that really protects Charlestown and Boston. So I know this is a Royal Marines celebration here, but if the Royal Marines had got in behind Washington and Long Island and blocked his route to Manhattan, none of us would be in this mess. One great happy nation stretching from Kent to Seattle.

So you're probably aware we have a very strong relationship with the United States Marine Corps. But there is never an opportunity missed to remind us how we burnt down the White House and we were involved. Well, that's true. We should mention that as well. War of 1812. Marines have been fighting in America on more than one occasion. Were the Marines present for those landings in the Chesapeake and up the Potomac

and when the White House got burned? I hate to admit it, but it was Marines that burnt the White House. And yes, they took part in those battles and in the landings. Did they eat the President's dinner before they burned it down? Were they present for that? I've heard the rumour. I don't know if that one's true. It's a good dip. It's a good dip.

Well, apologies to our American listeners. I hope you didn't get triggered by reference to the Capitol and the White House being burned to the ground. Moving swiftly on, that might take us quite neatly to this portrait here. This is a portrait of John Barclay. Now, John Barclay joined the Royal Marines, or as they were then in the Marines, 1755, and continued to serve until 1820. He fought at Belle Isle. Hang on a minute. Yes.

That's nearly 70 years. Yes. A huge length of service. Wow. Crikey. The last 30 years of his career though, he is the commandant in town. He is effectively the head of the Royal Marines in Nelson's Navy and the Navy that comes after us. And a lot of the changes he introduced or he made permanent within the marines you can still see that today so marines talk about being the first to land the first to adapt the first to overcome part of the reason for that is how they deploy so back in 1800 a thing called the sea service roster is created and this is literally just a list of each division on every man in the division and when you come back from a ship your name and your rank goes to the bottom of the list the next time a ship's company is needed you've worked your way up the list when it's your turn

you go off again what this means is you've got people deploying and returning constantly and they do it in small numbers so you get literally parties of five or six Marines going out to each ship and then coming back. You've also then got lots of men at the depot because the fleet isn't fully manned so if you need a battalion and we're talking about the Marines serving inland in America, in China, right through the 19th century, if you need a battalion of Marines you basically go to each of their divisions and say, please send me 500 men today. And they can do so. So what you see very quickly is all around the world, Marines can deploy from the fleet, and you can bring the Marines from several ships together. They'll go and deploy, they can go and

do their thing, and they're there first because the fleet is there. Or you can raise a battalion and you can mobilize a battalion. And there are loads of examples through history where you can get a marine battalion from a standing start going onto a ship the next day ready to deploy anywhere around the globe let's move on to the next thing what's going on here a very fancy medal in decoration i should say this is a beautiful medal it's a french legion donna and it dates to the crimea war in the 1850s okay and the miniature portrait next to it is a Royal Marine colonel called Thomas Hurdle, and he was given command of one of the Royal Marine battalions that deployed to the Crimea. And this was really an international coalition, actually,

of the Brits, the French, the Italians and the Turks, all seeking to delay Russian expansionism into the Mediterranean via the Black Sea. Great. So that all sounds very dead and buried, that history. So no lessons there for you and the modern Royal Marines. So that's an example of Marines not just working alongside other units, but working alongside allies. Indeed. And deploying in force for a long campaign, they were sure for two years. And again, you see the trickle draft thing in action, but these guys are fighting in the Crimea

for those two years and actually fighting quite a successful war as well. So we work very closely with the United States Marine Corps and some of their maritime special operations troops, but also with the Dutch Marines. So we're very closely linked, interoperable, interchangeable, as we describe it and yeah it's a big part of our life working with foreign troops. Do they have to learn English or do you know Dutch? They speak embarrassingly good English. Now this is something very different, we've got a table full of medals and a sword and some daggers.

This is a little spoon, tell me about this. So this is a wonderful cow bone spoon made by a guy called James Boot. James was actually a schoolmaster in the Royal Marines. Royal Marines back in the 19th century were literally, their divisions were like small villages. They had all the staff you would expect to support a community, including schools and teachers.

James actually took a drop in rank. He was a sergeant. He actually stepped back to become a private because he was so desperate to sail with Darwin on the Beagle journey around the world. And during his time, he made these wonderful bits of scrimshaw. And we see Marines doing all sorts of things like this over the years. They're with Franklin.

They go to the South Pole. If the Navy's part of an expedition, the Marines will be there. He was a very proud Marine, was our James. He was a very proud Marine. We're all proud Marines. Of course, of course. But a reminder that as you say, so no fighting on that particular expedition, just lots of science. Yeah. Amazing. But he had the Marines making sure that everything was under control. What have we got here? So we're talking a little bit about Marines as specialists. This really is a medal that takes us back to the very early days

of specialisation in the Royal Marines. This is the Order of Isabella, presented to Sergeant Mark Smith. He was a Royal Marine artillery sergeant in the 1830s, and the war is the Carlos War on the north coast of Spain. This is British influence in the political development of Spain and trying to maintain the Spanish crown to its rightful owner. Mark Smith though is particularly significant because of his role. He is the senior Royal Marine on quite a small ship and he's responsible for the operation of the ship's

guns on that ship and back at this period of time between the end of the Napoleonic Wars and the War of 1812 actually it's the Royal Marine Artillery who were doing all the exciting work about naval gunnery. And indeed HMS Exlet, which is just a mile or so from where we are, actually the first instructors were Royal Marines and Mark Smith was one of those. So we see throughout history this specialisation of Marines, which continues today. We don't have Royal Marine Artillery anymore.

We have Army Gunners, as they're called, but they do the commando course and get their green beret. And we don't use the ship systems anymore, but we are very specialist and we're becoming more specialist. So we'll expect the most junior ranks to be multi-skilled before they can come into one of the strike teams. And does that mean working with different weapon systems and, you know, just to expect them to be gunners here? I mean, what does that mean? Absorbing different platforms, new tools? Absolutely. So different types of weapon systems and you know just to expect them to be gunners here I mean what does that mean absorbing different platforms new tools? Absolutely so different types of weapon systems but recently it's been uncrewed systems and

they are very clever individuals these young Royal Marines and young commandos. Brilliant now you've got a very very fine set of medals here tell me about these ones. So these are the medals that were presented to bernard weller he really did an amazing job in the first world war he was with the plymouth battalion at gallipoli one of the distinguished service cross the ceo was killed bernard was the second in command he took control of the battalion and led them as further inland as anybody got on the gallipoli peninsula back in 1915. One of the DSC mentioned in the dispatches for that.

He then goes into the Navy proper. He's a deep blue fleet marine, develops some specialist skills, and he then becomes the training officer for the men who were training for the Zabruga raid, this very courageous assault on Zabruga to deny the German submarines access into the North Sea via the Bruges Canal. He's CO of one of the landing companies, the CO of the entire landing and the 2 IC both get killed on the run in. Bernadweller is giving command of the entire landing force and this is the chap who leads the marines to control the mole which allows the block ships to go down, which effectively blocks the canal.

And we can have a debate about the impact on British shipping and German submarines. It drops off after the Zabruga raid. But actually, the real goal of this is, if you think about the date, it is St. George's Day. It's 1918. It's just after the Kaiser battle, the great German offensive in March.

It is the first glimmer of light coming from the war in France and Flanders. This is a great kind of morale boost for the nation. And you see it in the press. They talk about the twist of the dragon's tail. It's the first good news we've got from the front as a nation. And you get this massive morale impact for the guys at home. So Brugge, that's one that you must light up because that's behind enemy lines. Hostile Coast attacking a pinch point,

a really interesting strategic target trying to achieve a big effect on the wider war. That's your bread and butter. Absolutely. I'm not suggesting we probably do it in quite the same way these days, but it was a strategic raid, as you've described it, that had a big impact into the direction of the war.

And that's the kind of thing that we would be hoping to do, but in a slightly more technology enabled, sophisticated way. But of course that was during full war. So, you know, people's appetite for risk was even higher. Now let's sit down in this port cellar and fly a few drones over there. Not quite.

Right, speaking of full war, these are Second World War berets, are they? Indeed, yes. Okay, tell me about these. So we've got two berets. One is what people will recognise as a very typical Royal Marines green beret. I say very typical. Actually, it's not that typical.

This was presented to Peter Brown. Now, Peter was an officer in 4-2 Commando. They went through Achenacarry in 1943. Achenacarry is in Scotland. Where listeners to this podcast will know we visited and the site where they used to do that training but very very difficult Highlands of Scotland miserable if you can train fight there you can train fight anywhere. Exactly that's the plan of being in such a remote area which is also a beautiful area. I love it. The point for Peter though is 4-2 Commando are the first formed Royal Marine unit to pass through that

Commando training and today every Royal Marine passes through the same Commando training but Peter goes right back there. There's a second beret though which probably modern Marines would recognise as a recruits beret. Actually from a historical point of view it's more historic than a green beret for a Marine. This navy blue headdress with the red patch goes right back to 1830. beret for a Marine. This navy blue headdress with the red patch goes right back to 1830. Right up until the 1950s, if you weren't a commando trained Marine, you wore this beret. That second beret also belongs to Peter Brown. He'd passed his commando course, he'd been presented his green beret, but he was also a very experienced sailor. And his skills were needed in landing craft, so he was pulled out of 4-2 commando to go into landing craft,

and he landed on D-Day. He led one of the small assault flotillas ashore at D-Day. And it's a really interesting thing, because we tend to talk about the commandos and the Marines, and everyone has to be the same standard, everyone has to qualify, and in the Second World War, they weeded out the people who couldn't make the grade for commandos. It's much more complex than that.

They weeded out specific skills to go and take on specific tasks so some of the guys passed the courses peter brown did here but they were needed to do something else so that second berry was worn on d-day itself indeed and that green people talk about that green berry when you said earlier you handed out to people that is a huge moment do you remember when someone handed you a greenberry i remember very clearly when i was presented my greenberry on the 14th of february 1997 but yes it's a huge moment in your life and as i said to the recruits when i was had the honor to present them their berries you have to be all in to be a commando you can't just do it as a part-time thing you have to be all in physically mentally but the sense of achievement when you actually earn your greenberry is all the richer and all the greater because you've had to put so much into it and alongside the berry one of the famous insignia one of the same items people might

associate with commandos is the dagger here and we've got this one is this a world war ii dagger indeed yes so this is what people call a second pattern commando dagger and this particular one was issued to a royal Marine called John Forbes, and he was one of the very first Marines to qualify and to volunteer to be a commando. He joined what was originally called the Royal Marine Commando, then it became A Commando Royal Marines, and then it became 40 Royal Marines Commando. Took part in the DF parade, served with the unit throughout the Second World War, right through D-Day, and additionally what they were doing in Italy as well. But that is such a symbol of being a Marine commando.

This is the holy grail of Royal Marines. It absolutely is. And it looks like this one's had a bit of action because the point is slightly blunted. Goodness knows what kind of action that's seen. And in the First World War, the nature of the war, you've mentioned Gallipoli, the were amphibious operations. A lot of Marines found themselves fighting in trenches the shore in in roles that we would think of as sort of army

roles in the second world war were commandos and marines doing a lot of landing from ships a lot of islands a lot of coastlines of d-day famously but lots of landings in greece italy as well both actually you when you think about marines in the World War, there are 55,000 Marines. The Corps grows to a massive size. Probably 7,000 or 8,000 of them serve in commandos. But Marines do all sorts of things. So they have a division, they have mobile naval base defence organisations, landing craft, anti-aircraft guns, coastal artillery. It's a completely different force to that which we have now as Royal Marines.

But even lots of those units that weren't commandos actually did those raiding things we've been talking about. If you're a Marine and you're on a ship and there is a need, you will go and do raiding. It's one of your primary roles is to support the Navy in what it needs to do to project power ashore. So a great example of one of the classic raids during the Second World War was 4-7 Commando landing at Port-en-Bessin.

So against all the odds, they landed about 12 miles down the coast and then had to fight through the Germans coming inland to then fight back towards the coastline to clear Port-en-Bessin, which is where the pipeline under the ocean was going to come in. So heroic acts of gallantry, but they did it against all the odds.

So that was a strategic raid. 12 miles behind enemy lines. Indeed. I've walked that route. And that is on D-Day itself? That was on D-Day, yeah. They landed at Ancel and then ended up in Port-au-Massagne. And then finally, we come to the end of the table, where at the end of this 360 years of history,

is what the men and now women issued when they become a commander. We've got the modern dagger and the cat badge and patches as well. So we don't actually train people to knife fight anymore, even though our insignia is synonymous with the commando dagger, but we use slightly more sophisticated methods. It's gone wrong if you're that close now, don't you think? Yeah, I think you've got a sidearm is what we would call it If it all goes completely pear-shaped, then you have got your dagger

You wouldn't take that dagger into combat, would you? They are issue items, I have one I haven't taken it into I think I might have taken it into combat once but I was hoping I wasn't going to use it More for morale than anything else And there'll be many more generations to come who are issued with these.

Many more green lids will be given out by you and your successors. I hope so, and I'm very confident they will. It's an exciting time to be a commando. Well, John Rawlinson and Brigadier Christopher Hawke, thank you very much for coming to the pod. Thank you.