Dan Snow's History Hit - Veterans of the Korean War

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

70 years ago today, on 25th June 1950, North Korean forces invaded South Korea. The three-year conflict which followed took the lives of four million people including nearly 100,000 British troops. For many veterans, it is widely considered 'The Forgotten War'. So I was delighted to be joined by Arthur Teasdale, George Reed, Trevor John and Gerry Farmer, who shared their remarkable experiences in Korea, one of Britain's most deadly conflicts.Subscribe to History Hit and you'll get access to hundreds of history documentaries, as well as every single episode of this podcast from the beginning (400 extra episodes). We're running live podcasts on Zoom, we've got weekly quizzes where you can win prizes, and exclusive subscriber only articles. It's the ultimate history package. Just go to historyhit.tv to subscribe. Use code 'pod1' at checkout for your first month free and the following month for just £/€/$1.

Hi everyone, welcome to Dan Snow's history hit. On the 25th of June 1950, North Korean forces invaded South Korea. The peninsula had been captured from the Japanese in 1945, just at the end of the war, and it had been divided a little bit like Germany between the victorious allies. The Soviet bloc dominated the north of the peninsula, the Americans, Western allies, controlled the southern half. The North Korean dictator Kim Il-sung with Soviet and Chinese backing, thinking the Americans wouldn't really mind, decided to use force in 1950 to unify Korea under his rule. He chose poorly. American, British and other UN troops rushed to the south to stem the tide of the North Korean advance. So the fighting then seesawed up

and down the peninsula. The Chinese army intervened when it looked like Kim's forces were close to utter defeat. And after around a year of fighting, the front line had solidified into a kind of static front, roughly close to today's border. But there were many, many months or years of fighting ahead. It was a bloody war. At least 3 million North and South Koreans, service people and civilians, killed. A huge number of Americans, 37,000 Americans killed, nearly 100,000 wounded. And for the British, over 1,000 killed and 2,500 wounded. Around 60,000 members of the British Armed Forces served in Korea. It was a huge deployment and was Britain's bloodiest, costliest conflict since 1945-1946. So in this podcast I went to the Royal

Hospital Chelsea in London which has been looking after Britain's army veterans since the 17th century and I talked to four British veterans, three of whom, Arthur Teasdale, Trevor John and Gerry Farmer, fought in the war. And one, George Reid, arrived just as the fighting was finishing. None of them had a clue about Korea, it's fair to say, or the reasons that there was a war there, the reason they were fighting there. And they didn't feel the army had prepared them that well for what they were about to do. Here's Gerry Farmer. Yeah, I joined as a National Serviceman in the Tower of London. And we did our training, six weeks training, but that was only to learn how to march and salute.

Trevor did not want to go. I wasn't very happy. I finished my apprenticeship as a bricklayer and had my first pay as a fully qualified craftsman on a particular Friday. And when I got home, there was a letter on the floor waiting for me. And it was my calling up papers as well so I wasn't too happy about that then but there you are and I didn't give it much thought after though I mean I just took it that that was the way things were people needed to do two years and so just get in there and do it. I didn't know anything at all about it really and

and I didn't know that I was definitely going into Korea until a ship docked in Hong Kong with the King's Liverpool regiment on it they were on their way to Korea but they were shorter men. So there were 90 National Servicemen from the Welsh Regiment thinking they were going to stay in Hong Kong when the Welsh Regiment came out of Korea because they were due to do that. And he, well what happened was we were all transferred into the King's Liverpool Regiment 19 National Servicemen. The last war I think they all went to fight and then you had to do it all anyway but your country was at war and that but I end up by saying that what was wrong with us? We wasn't really, it wasn't like a national service.

We didn't even sign for it. We were constricted into it. You asked the question, did I know anything about Korea before I went out there? I didn't really, not at all. Arthur Teasdale didn't know much either, but he was up for an adventure. And so the war had been going on for a couple of years by the time you got there.

Did you know anything about it? No, not a thing. What were you expecting? I don't know. I just wanted to get somewhere, you know. And did you understand why you were fighting that war? No. In them days, you didn't know, no, you just went. But there again, I saw the world, you see. So five and a half weeks on a boat

to get to Busan, which is the port of Korea. It's Busan now, isn't it? Yeah, and from then you go to a place called Seaforth Camp, which was the place you went from to get acclimatised, you know. And Seaforth Camp, we was there, and then after about, I think it was about six weeks, about five weeks, we was then up to the front line, a hill called 159. And 159 was what we first see what it was like to be at war, you know.

I mean I think it's fair to say that I was pretty apprehensive about things because I hadn't been in the army all that long. I didn't really know too much and on reflection in fact the training that I had before I went left a lot to be desired. We went into reserve and it was discovered that none of the 90 Welshmen transferred to the King's had ever thrown a hand grenade in training. Before that, you see, I did seven weeks with these recruits in Hong Kong. Then I went to a place called... ..Echrist, it's gone.

But that's where you're stripped off, and you've got all the combat gear, and they put it away. And then he said, you know, this is, like, last night out. So that's in Japan, like, last night out. So, you know, go and enjoy yourself, like, or don't. Be careful, you know go and enjoy yourself like you would be careful you know I don't know what no I don't I don't think I'll tell you that story but I I'll just say that I was in a naughty place and I jumped out the window with me boats over from me neck and that's all I'm going to tell you. And I got away.

Yeah, that's what they did there. It's striking how all of them commented on just how battered Korea was after years of war. Trevor went straight from his ship right to the front line. Well, it wasn't very scenic. A lot of things were sort of flattened to the ground, buildings. But I didn't actually go into a built-up area all the time I was there. But I can remember all the hills and, you know,

and what happened was we went straight into reserve. George Reid arrived just after the ceasefire, but found the conditions challenging enough. When we got up near the gym, about midnight or so, all the lights were out, it had been raining, there was mud everywhere. We were shown into a tent and I woke up in the morning about knee deep in mud. It was a jolly start it was, yeah. But Korea was a bit hills and it was pretty barren.

That's what I can remember at the time. A bit rugged, there was no buildings, all the villages had been demolished and you couldn't see any sign of them around that area, around where the till bridge was. And even over the other side, there's no trace of any villages which were there before the war. The front line was static by this time and the men lived not unlike their fathers lived

during the First World War. Well, when we went in, we had four companies and it was a case of having two forward companies and two rear companies. And it was basically dugouts, holes in the ground, and that's what we lived in. They were usually covered on the top with timber going across

to lots of earth and stuff above that so that if a mortar bomb came maybe it would protect us a bit. And what was it like when you got there? It was hell. But it's all right. There's good and bad. I mean, none of us have been to war before or shooting at each other with live ammunition and one thing and another. It's a funny thing, you know. There was a hill there called 355. She was a big hill but they wanted it and we weren't there to give it

away you know. And you're on guard all the time you were there. And we used to go up there sometimes for three weeks or a month at a time you know. Others went up for a week at a time. When it started also, should we think of it almost like the First World War? Well it's just like saying that that row of houses over there is on the other side of the hill and the enemy's there, you are here and you've got dead men. And we had patrols out down in there on a night and one thing or another. We lost 28 lads there

four at a time in these little hutches we call them dug out with there but the signals was the best because we got the same ones every time we went we were behind three five five all the time We were behind 355 all the time because they wanted that bloody hill and they never got it. But anyway, yeah. And in there was four, like, you had your sleeping bag and these four things. Well, the signalers, because they'd been there about three months before me, and the signalers, because they'd been there about three months before me, and the signalers, it got all the way, and they got these pickets, you know, off the zones, and they'd make four beds, put the strung across it was, because you never took your clobber off, you know, while you're in the line.

And we used to go up for sometimes 30 days at a time. You never took your clothes off? No you could take it easy but you had to be ready for it you know because if you're on the hill. And you were living underground? Everything's underground even the toilet yeah. Could you walk about during the day? Could you get out during the day? No, you didn't go nowhere. You just either on duty or off duty. There's nowhere to go.

What's it like being underground, just having shelling constantly above the head? It's bad when you hit the toilet. Well, there are different ones from different parts of the country, don't they? I always remember one book, I used to call it the Thunderbox. You know, it's one of the things you remember. What about being shelled or mortar bombed in your dugouts? Was that a terrifying experience? Yeah, well, that's what we needed to do. We

got in the dugout and you know, I didn't experience too much shelling on the hill that we were on actually. But a little bit, but yeah, it was, you always wondered whether it was going to sort of hit the dugout and what would happen. But one of the lads I know I always remember him because he was in the dugout one evening one day and we had a few rats around there as well you know you lived with with with rats not too many of them but you did and I remember him going into the dugout, and he was sitting on one end of the dugout and waiting, listening for the noise of the rafts moving. And he was a bit naughty because he fired at them. But there you are.

All of them commented on the weather. Really nasty. And with the weather, of course, you know, if it could get very cold in the winter, touch metal with your fingers and skin would come off. It was rough, because all throughout the year, when we were under the rainy season, that would dry it up. There was dust everywhere and all the mud had dried out. Then it started raining again, all the snow. Well, on Christmas Day, we lived in bunkers.

Like, when you see how we lived, we lived in bunkers. We made our own beds out of wire. We slept on the floor, really. Because you're always in your gear. You couldn't undress or anything like that. It was always ready for action. And do you know what? When we got up, all your nose was solid. I was in shock now. How old's your nose? Did it thaw out? Anything wet in your nose solid? My mum bought me a Croxley fountain pen to write letters home. It was called Croxley. I don't know if they still go in there, but it was a beautiful fountain pen. Well, do you know that bladder was like an ice lolly? In here, in my clock pocket.

When I woke up in the morning, it was like an ice lolly? In here, in my cock pocket. When I woke up in the morning, it was like an ice lolly. It was frozen solid, but it was 43 degrees below. And all the antifreeze was solid cans. So they started saying on the MT, and I got the guard some night, you've got to walk around and start one engine up and walk around to the next one starting up.

And you've got to start them up all night long, keep going. And that was the winters were terrible. But we'd done one winter and one summer. That's what we had to do in Korea. Despite all this, Gerry and Arthur, in particular, mentioned how much they enjoyed the experience. We used to love it, we did.

Yeah, we had some good times, you know. Good times. I never smoked at all, but you used to get 50 cigarettes a week. Capstan and Players, and you bang their top like that and turn it, and it was full of cigarettes. I used to give them away to the boys. Because I had a couple, made me feel giddy, I thought, oh, I can't stand this, you know. But I'd never been a smoker.

But a drinker, a bit of whisky done me, I tell you that. But we never got that. Land a Viking longship on island shores. Scramble over the dunes of ancient Egypt and avoid the Poisoner's Cup in Renaissance Florence. Each week on Echoes of History, we uncover the epic stories that inspire Assassin's Creed. We're stepping into feudal Japan in our special series Chasing Shadows, where samurai warlords and shinobi spies

teach us the tactics and skills needed not only to survive, but to conquer. Whether you're preparing for Assassin's Creed Shadows or fascinated by history and great stories, listen to Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. There are new episodes every week. And I'll tell you what, the county of Durham, I've always said they were magic people, but we used to get kegs of beer from them.

And on every bar in the pubs in County Durham had a big green bucket on there and that was donations for the lads in Korea. We got everything We did now get some lovely stuff man And we used to sell halfway to the young The British forces in the Korean War were made up from a large number of conscripts National servicemen they were called and they came from all backgrounds. I went out with an officer one night Oh were called and they came from all backgrounds. I went out with an officer one night, Tony Hopkins his name was, a lord and lady, his mum and dad was, you know, a lord and lady

and he was a National Service officer and he was all posh and we went out on a patrol and the sergeant used to run it and so on and he'd say, look, don't start that again. He used to go to a trench, he'd go, come out, will you come out? He said, if they come out, they'll kill you, you know? So he said, well, there's someone down there, like, might have been, like, a couple of Chinese or Koreans. He said, they've got to come out. So the sergeant says, this is how they come out, he said. They had two grenades on their chest, he's like, they're phosphorus grenades, I've got loads of them, my one went up and I got wounded and he said what you do you take one of them pull the pin and throw it down and they will definitely come out, you know what he said, that's

against the Geneva Conventions, we went oh I'll get a knife, we used to laugh about him, I was telling the options, he was all right he was, But he was like posh, you know. But you know what we found out about these officers who were really posh and educated? I was as good as them in one way, or my mates. They were educated like that, and we wasn't. But guess what we had, what they didn't have? Street wires. We had street wires.

We could tell right away if it's good or bad. But they didn't know that. The education they had, it was all like, you know, when he said about the, oh, you can't do that, he said it's bad to do that. One fascinating story

is when Gerry remembered a Chinese prisoner being brought in, who then asked his captors quite a simple question. He said, do you know why you're here? So he then broke the English. So we said, well, I never got a clue. No, we didn't know about Korea. We said, we said we didn't know where Korea was, even when we was in Korea, we didn't know where it was. The danger they faced on the front line was constant. I think when you're going out on patrol, you're quite engrossed in watching and listening for,

if you're on patrol, listening out for the enemy and concentrating on what you're doing because I think it's a very important thing to do. I will tell people that, for instance, when I went on a company attack with the Kings, I was extremely apprehensive. In fact, I turned around and said I was a bit scared, to say the least. If anybody ever told me that they'd been in action, a similar sort of action before, and I didn't worry them at all, I wouldn't believe them. You know, they wouldn't be human as far as I'm concerned.

There wasn't a lot of shells but they had mortars. There was a lot of mortars coming over and we were hearing things from the Americans who were next door to us. Yeah, I can remember even a plane coming in and dropping napalm on the Chinese side. Whether it was British or American, I don't know. I would have thought it was probably American. But in the daytime, it was pretty risky to stick your head above the parapet so to speak. If you moved in the daytime and you were in sight of the opposition's lookout posts, you could get shelled and mortared.

The Chinese used to supply bugle, come running up the hill and they were like, oh, what are you saying with those hands? There were so many of them, they were unbelievable. So I spent time on 159. Then on the 28th of May, which was the year 1953, the Duke of Wellington Regiment had got a lot of people, a lot of bad boys were killed and they was on the hook, on the hook. But the Chinese captured the hook back. It was the second battle of the hook. The Americans lost it first but then, so on the 28th we had to get all armed up at night ready to go in the morning and we had to go and capture it back and that was a lot of fighting. You know, and I thought, it's my first sight of real death.

Well, it rained a lot in Korea and all. And I was on that, and I was thinking, it's dangerous going out on patrol, and that is, you know, gonna get blown up one night. So there was nine of us to go over to the other side, scout around, which was the dangerous way, they might have been Chinese there, and then come back. Well, halfway out it was up to our waist,

and we were struggling through the river, suddenly bang, bang, they had burp guns, you know the burp guns, they called it, burp, burp, yeah? Coming from the bank in the dark, the flashing. So anyway, in front of, I was five there, and there was about four, four there, last time there. And I haven't put it in that book or anything like that, but there was a guy, two Korean soldiers. They used to come out in case you want them to ask you any questions, you know.

And halfway through we come under this fire. And all of a sudden he screamed out. The bloke in front of me, we all turned around because the sergeant said, oh bolted, get back. And these little strips of water coming from what they're shooting, and all of a sudden he cries out. And he's behind me this time, he was in front of me crying out. He's behind me, of course he goes under the water and he's shouting and screaming,

he's splashing about. So I walked away a little bit and then I thought, you know, you've got to help him. And I'm not really like that, you know, I tried to hide myself in danger. And I turned around, all I could do, and he's shouting Korean words, that turned out to be mum or something, I was told eventually. But what happened was, I got hold of his collar and I struggled through water with a stand gun on my shoulder. And they end on there pulling him. So they're trying to fight. When we got him to the bank, he had a leg wound that he died

here there and then. And we took him back dead. It wasn't just Gerry who had the lucky escapes while on patrol. Arthur had his own hair-raising story. He said, hey, Taser, it's about time you did a patrol, I said. Do you think I'm ready? He said, of course, you're bloody ready, you know. I thought, well, he says, anyway,

get ready. And I got the drummer cable and all the gear. And I had a stand going. We were one up the spout, just ready in case, you know. And we set off. And he said, hold on a minute, he said. We stopped.

No, he says, I think it's all right. So we set off again. But while we were resting, I, this cable, I pulled it off the rail and put it in me hand like that so that when I set off to run, drop it and run like hell, you know. He said,

right, get ready. Ready? Go. We set off running, you know. And I dropped that cable and it all knotted up. And I had my hand on his belt. Pulled us both down and where we were going to go was just a big hole in front.

Life. So a shell blew up? I didn't come in. Land a Viking longship on island shores, scramble over the dunes of ancient Egypt, and avoid the Poisoner's Cup in Renaissance Florence. Each week on Echoes of History, we uncover the epic stories that inspire Assassin's Creed. We're stepping into feudal Japan in our special series, Chasing Shadows, where samurai warlords and shinobi spies teach us the tactics and skills needed not only to survive, but to conquer. Whether you're preparing for Assassin's Creed Shadows or fascinated by history and great stories, listen to Echoes of History,

a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. There are new episodes every week. It's a hell of a shot. But, you see, different places on them hills, because it had been going so long on, that's all it was, you see. It was just patrols and that all the time, yeah. But, yeah, God. Not surprisingly, both Trevor and Gerry were injured.

It's the only way Colonel Stephens was driving him but he used to visit the company, a different company every morning, five o'clock in the morning. And this very morning he was going to the company which was up the hook, dangerous you know and we started getting mortars come over and they were banging behind us. It was as though they were following us but they couldn't have been. All of a sudden, some dirt crashed in the back of the neck. So he said, put your foot down a bit. So I'm belting along and all of a sudden, there was a crash right near us.

He jumped out and said, get the jeep. He actually said he'd get it under cover but there was no cover there so he's jumped out into some trench somewhere and I backed the Jeep up and as I did the motor hit one meter from the Jeep. If you look at the Jeep it's a wreck you know but it no seatbelt which is good because it flew me out 40 yards and I landed somewhere down in the valley somewhere and they all were, they all come around from D company, we had a bloke with a red cross on his arm and he's saying, well I couldn't feel my legs,

I couldn't breathe, you know. I thought I was dying. I was really dying, you know. And all of a sudden, there's a face comes beside me, and it's scarlet cloth, you know. I'm really dying now, because he said to him that I'm the Padre from the Norwegian Padre, right, the figure of the Norwegian army that he's to in the hospital. So as ill as I was, he said, whispered, it was all creepy, do you want to be confirmed, son? What did I say to him?

No thanks, I feel a bit better now. And that's the truth. In fact, Gerry was wounded twice. I blew me 40 yards in the air. I went flying through the air, and when I landed, you know, I was, then I got picked up by this captain, Captain Padre, and he phoned something up, and I'm laying there really rough, and he said, there's an helicopter ride for you,

and the American smash sent an helicopter over, and even that was a funny thing that I talked about you know you lay in the ones to one on each side and they put the glass stone over you know well I was on the side of the pilot I and you could see him and you know he was a Mexican looking guy he had his act they burn their acts up like that he had office ago and he's made smoking yeah and you know what he looked down and a Mexican looking guy, he had his hat, they burned their hats up like that. He had half a cigar in his mouth smoking. Yeah, and do you know what? He looked down there and again and heard ping, ping. He went, oh, they've got us. And they were firing at the helicopter.

And when we got to, like, when you see mesh, you know, they all come running and get you into the, like, shed things. You know what he said, last words to the party, he said, well, what do you know? We've done it. Typical American, wasn't it?

Trevor had a sense of foreboding before going out on one patrol. An over-eager sergeant had ordered them into no man's land, but before it was properly dark. We were waiting behind the hill for it to get dark and what happened was

that the sergeant said, right, let's go. And I didn't tell you my rank when you asked the question earlier on, but I was a private. And I actually said to the sergeant, don't you think it's a little bit light before we went, before going?

And he said, typical army then in those days, you do as you're told or you'll end up in a court martial. So off we went. And it was about probably a couple of hundred yards from the rear to the forward right front line and we were halfway down we had to go down a bit of a slope and into into a little valley and we we were going along and I thought about a half way thinks that I think I've got it wrong you know but then I weird pops if you if a mortar bomb is fired you can

hear a pop in sound and they dropped mortars in front of us and then it dropped mortars behind us and then they went, closed in. And there were 13 of us on patrol. One was killed who happened to be my partner on a Bren gun. And in addition to being a partner on a Bren gun, he was also an old school friend of mine because we were from the same place in South Wales. I didn't actually see what happened to him because I was more or less right behind him. But when the mortar bomb landed, he was killed obviously outright. And I had 18 pieces of shrapnel in me from that mortar bomb I presume it was that one it could have been another one

that they dropped afterwards because I had a command withdraw and I remembered turning, but I couldn't see where I was going. But I turned and took about two paces, and that was all I knew about it then. I just collapsed, and I obviously had a lot of... I lost a lot of blood, I must have done anyway, so, you know. Arthur witnessed one incident that's never left him. Maybe one day you'd see them come round the corner and they'd get on trucks and went back

until one day there was two trucks coming in and there was a big hill there and my mate and myself was standing there because the cook house was just a makeshift cook house, you know, there. And he had all, oh Jesus, look at me. These two wagons came in and the blokes, they were standing in the back, you know, and all of a sudden we heard this whistling sound. Two shells landed in between the two trucks. There was blokes screaming and I went across there and the first one I come to was a bloke in Bishop Auckland where I lived.

He was in the army before I went in, you know. And he had his boots on, I used to watch the film because he had bull boots on and he was still in training and he used to march up and down the main street, you know, because we marched at 140 street you know because we matched at 140 you know and he was and he was he was laid there with a big hole in his chest oh jesus but that's life isn't it yeah i asked all the men whether they regretted going to Korea and none of them did. No, I don't regret it. And I think the main reason is that there have been numerous conflicts around the world since the Korean conflict. And I haven't really seen much good come of the majority of them.

come of the majority of them. But as far as the Korean War is concerned, yes it was split into two, but at least the South Korean people seemed to have done a pretty good job of looking after themselves. And I think each and every person who went to help them out should be quite proud of that, really. They definitely all felt that the Korean War had been unfairly forgotten by British people today. They don't really want to know. They say, the Korean War? What's the Korean War? They say it wasn't a war, but it was. There's over a thousand soldiers buried out there in Pusan. Anyway, it's good to have done it.

Looking back on it, I can't understand. You can't believe you did do it. It's so bad out in Korea. You'd get blown up any minute. The bottle shooters would come over. When you went out on patrol, you might have to stand and fight someone. I didn't want to do that on the Bren gun. You know what? I got told off.

You couldn't combine to barracks if you didn't have barracks. I was in the front line and we had an attack. It was 159 and I often wondered if it was in any records anywhere because there was about 28 dead on the floor, but they was all young. They looked young, like young kids. They were in National Service in China. And I stepped over one of them and he was looking at me with his eyes open. And I didn't really stop, I bent down and done that, shut his eyes. Do you know what the old sergeant told on me when I went in front of the commanding, not the commanding officer, I went through with the platoon officer, Major Hill.

He was captain, a major he ended up. And he said, you know what he said, I mean we laughed about it, he said, you come here to fight, he said, we don't really want any Florence Nightingale's in our platoon. That's me, Florence Nightingale. Oh we had a laugh. Yeah, I've just written like that, but it was a terrible thing to see someone looking at you, you know, I mean to die with your eyes open is the worst thing ever. It affected me. You know,

but I got over it. I come out not with, just with nerves, you know. I got nervous at everything I did when I come home. You know. Here's somebody go bang and jump out of your life. But it's all gone now. All gone now. You know.

And it goes at the wrong time. I give my wife a lot of credit because I was married with my wife 58 years until she died and she sort of made it okay for me to be like I was. I couldn't, when I was going to the cinema, I got nearly in seats, I couldn't get in the middle of the seats with all people where you got to get up to get out.

I had a claustrophobia about that, you know. Not an acrophobia, because I didn't mind going out, but it was a phobia between acrophobia and the other phobia about being enclosed. There's three phobias, the middle one people don't tell you about, which I got, is you get nervous over doing something you don't want to do. When the day of judgement comes, St Peter will surely yell, these are the boys from Korea, they've spent their time in hell, we went, hey! He'll think something like that up. Clever, innit?

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